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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021-11-29 Redistricting Commission minutes (8th Session Part 2) 2021 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 8'h Session—Part 2 Monday, November 29, 2021 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 ATTENDANCE: Present: Ms. Lehuanani Ah Nee, Commissioner (via Zoom) Mr. `Rina Akamu, Commissioner(via Zoom) Ms. Stephanie Bath, Commissioner Mr. James Hustace, Vice Chairperson Mr. Bronsten-Glenn Kossow, Chairperson Mr. Stephen Lopez, Commissioner Mr. Meizhu Lui, Commissioner(via Zoom) Ms. Jennifer Yadao, Commissioner Mr. Dwayne Yoshina, Commissioner Also Present: Diana Mellon-Lacey, Deputy Corporation Counsel Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator Cori Saiki, Elections Program Specialist I Dennis Kauka Jr., Legislative Specialist/ Secretary CALL TO ORDER: KOSSOW: Good morning, everybody. We are reconvening from the 8th Session of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission that began and recessed on November 23rd. Today is Monday, November 29th. The time is 9:34, November 29th. ROLL CALL KOSSOW: Since we are coming back from recess on a different day, Mr. Kauka, please call the roll. KAUKA: Thank you. Commissioner Lui, "Present by Zoom," Commissioner Yoshina, "Here, in the County of Hilo," Commissioner Ah Nee, "Present by Zoom," Commissioner Yadao, "Here, Hilo," Commissioner Bath, "Present, Hilo," Commissioner Akamu, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Lopez, "Present, Kona," Commissioner Hustace, "Present, Kona Chambers", Chair Kossow, "Here, Kona." Chair, thank you. There are nine Commissioners present. UNFINISHED BUSINESS KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioners, for joining us today. I hope everybody had a really good Thanksgiving, if you celebrated. We're going to go back to our Unfinished Business from the 23rd meeting. Our November 23rd meeting, which is draft plans. We were in the process of discussing, I think, it's draft plan number 1. Mr. Hustace, did you use a different name for that one? Because we saved it under a different name I think, right? HUSTACE: That's correct, Chair. The two documents that we worked on, at our last meeting, were saved and changed for that particular date. And no changes were made after that time. The two documents we worked on were titled, 11-23-21 Working Doc 1-1 and 11-23-21 Working Doc 2-1. Just to update that work we did at our last meeting. Thanks, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you. So, let's go ahead and do the first one, Working Doc 1-1. Thank you. HUSTACE: Unfortunately, it wouldn't let me put 1 point 1 (1.1). So, it's a little confusing there, but 1 dash 1 (1-1). And Chair, I can share that up on the screen, if you'd like. KOSSOW: Yes, please. HUSTACE: Okay, Chair, this is 11-23-21 from our last work, titled Working Doc 1-1. So, this is any changes we made to Working Doc 1. 2 KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. So, Commissioners, let's go ahead and start with making any alternate changings on this one. From my understanding, where we left off on this conversation, is that we need to make fixes between 4, 5, and 6. Six (6)with the negative deviation. Five (5)with a positive deviation. And so, we'll just open up for discussion. Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes, my recollection was that we seemed to have focus on this map, of course, as one of the two preferred. But Ms. Bath had some very strong, passionate, comments about how District 4 and 5, and perhaps 6, fit into her acceptance. So, we've tabled this to give her time to come back with a recommendation of how we might solve/address her problems. I'd be interested in hearing from her. Again, in my mind, we set this aside strictly on that premise at the time. So, I would invite Ms. Bath to bring us up to date on what she might have done to help solve the problem that she was concerned about. BATH: It's Stephanie Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Two things. One is that it's not my problem, it's our challenge ahead of us. The second thing is, when I was looking at these numbersFirst, I want to apologize for what happened last time. I had connectivity from the site, and then I lost total connectivity. So, I couldn't have engaged. But when I was revisiting this map, and the work that you folks, we did, at the last meeting, one of the things that I noticed is that, when you look at the deviations, Council 2, Council 3-try wait. Just a minute. I think I'm not looking at the same map, but one of the things that I noticed was that some of the districts in northern Kona—oh you know, I was working off of Map 2, I think. So, I'm going to switch to that one, if that's okay with everyone? KOSSOW: I'm sorry. Which map are you turning to? BATH: I'm trying to get back to—give me a second here the map that you were referring to, is not the one that I was working off of. So, I'm going to go ahead and open up that one. (Pause.) Okay, I was working off of Doc 2. And when I was doing the numbers on this, I was looking at the deviation, and Council Districts 9, 8, 3, 2, and 1, were all over in population. And when I tallied those numbers up, it came to about 2,050 people. And so, with the extra numbers of people in those districts, if you tally them all up and you have 2,050 people, those 2,050 people can make up for the deficit in Ka`u. At least half of the deficit in Ka`u. KOSSOW: I'm sorry, Ms. Bath, I have to interject really quickly here. BATH: Yeah, sure. KOSSOW: And I apologize. 3 BATH: No. KOSSOW: For clarification purposes, are you referring to the map that's currently up on the screen right now? Or is that the Working Doc 1.2? BATH: Yes, it's the 1.2. I'm sorry. I thought I stated that earlier. KOSSOW: Oh, thank you for that. Mr. Hustace, would you be able to pull that one up? BATH: Yeah. `Cause it's a lot easier to explain what I did from looking at that map. Thank you. KOSSOW: 2-1. Thank you. Go ahead, Ms. Bath. I apologize. BATH: Oh, no. That's okay. So, looking at Districts 1, 2, 3, 8, and 9, and not dealing with the District 4 numbers, if you look at those numbers of the districts that I've mentioned, and you add them together, it comes to about 2,050 people. And so although each one of those districts that I mentioned have a few hundred people more, it makes a significant difference in the numbers if you've got 2,000 people that can be put into Ka`u, and make up for the deficit. What I'm seeing is that we're working from the top of the island down. And then Puna and Ka`u are being told that they're the issue and they're the problem. You know, we've got to work it out. However, what I did was, I worked from the south up. And what I saw was Puna and Ka`u no longer had an issue. We were great. However, the upper part of the island had to really refigure and change their boundaries. Speaking for District 5, traditionally upper Puna has gotten broken up. And the concern there is that, in upper Puna there are a lot of poor people, and the level of service is very poor. And I know this is a political thing we're doing. We're drawing lines but I want to reiterate that those lines and the people that we call, that we elect, represent us. Volcano, `Ohi`a Estates, all of that upper Puna area is really not being represented. Their interests are not being represented because they're being cut off from their area, their community, the common issues. And so, actually, I was talking to two people this week, and they were both saying how come Volcano is not being put back where it belongs. People testified for that. And it was actually told to me that I wasn't representing our district fully and that upper Puna was going to get burned again. So, I relooked at it, and in fact they were actually correct. And there is the concern with Ka`u. Although it's not my district, when I look at Ka`u and I look at Puna being put in Ka`u, and then Pahala, N5'51ehu, Wai`ohinu area is in Ka`u. And then you've got Hawaiian Ocean View Estates, and then you've got south Kona all being represented in Ka`u. I have a concern for representation in that island. How can south Kona, Puna, and Ka`u at large all be represented by the same people fairly? So, I have a concern about that. If I represented District 5, up to the Park entrance, all that area of upper Puna, would go back into upper Puna and `Ainaloa Subdivision would be given to lower Puna. And what we've already done, Kalapana would be given to lower Puna. And when I come up with those numbers, it's pretty darn good for upper Puna, and it's the other districts that need to be reworked. District 4 Commissioner is here. She can speak on her subdivision. However, if we give lower Puna back to lower Puna, where they belong, then HPP is going to have to be split. 4 And it's going to have to be given to District 3. I don't know if you're following me. Now, if District 3 gets larger, that impacts District 2, which impacts Hamakua, which impacts District 9, and it's the domino effect. But what I won't do as the District 5 Commissioner, is sacrifice upper Puna any longer because I'm just trying to be a nice guy. And trying to be workable. Because it doesn't really seem likeIt seems like we're making these really huge sacrifices for our community, and we have been for a long time. I would like to add that Council 8 and Council 7, regardless where their lines are being drawn, are going to be represented. They will be represented. They will have their infrastructure just because of the nature of how they are. The same is true with District 2, and District 3. They'll be represented. They'll get their fair share just as they always have. So, I just wanted to put those thoughts out on the table because they're important. It's important that people have representation. I know in the past it's been said, well they got to vote for the people that'll represent them. Well, if south Kona is representing Volcano, how are they going to get fair representation? I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just wonder if you could expand that map on the screen so we can take a look at what she's saying. Thank you. BATH: So, the map that I'm looking at has Mauna Loa Estates, North Oshiro community, all of Volcano, `Ohi`a Estates, all those smaller subdivisions are there. Now, if upper Puna was really being redistricted in a way that they were really representing upper Puna, then upper Puna would go from that lower line where just a minute here. I've just got to make a quick change here. This is really confusing. LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I wonder, Stephanie, if we can go back to the other map that we were working on because it's too confusing to look at two and we had already agreed to stick with the other one. Which got some differences, but we could jigger it. I would just find it easier to be working from one. BATH: I can do that but it's going to take some time on my part. `Cause I looked at the other one, and it was so off that—yeah, we can do that. LUL Yeah, but it's the same little census blocks that we can move around, so. I would find that easier. I don't know what other people think, but. BATH: That's fine. LUL So, while I've got the floor, in terms of the numbers, I do feel that we have gotten the most testimony from Puna. From people in Puna who are very concerned about their voice and not being split up inappropriately. So, once again, I would advocate for us not 5 being quite as focused on the exact numbers and the deviations. Because I think if we have to make an argument as to why we're not sticking to them, we could do so given the testimony. I feel like we should be more concerned with making sure everyone is feeling well represented. As opposed to, saying to the people, well we had to do this because we were like, you know, a point five (0.5) deviation off. So, let's look at what's optimal and then go from there. That's my thought. I yield. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Ms. Bath? BATH: Yeah, I had a question for Diana on that. Can we just, you know, do that? And write off the numbers, sort of, for community? I understood that we couldn't. MELLON-LACEY: Sorry, Chair. This is Diana Mellon-Lacey. I'm sorry. I want to be clear exactly, what your question is. BATH: Chair Lui? Can you restate for Counsel what you said? LUL Yes. Hi, Diana. I was just saying that my understanding is that if we did go over the deviations for some districts and perhaps even overall, that if we had really good reasons, we could make an argument for why. Is that correct? MELLON-LACEY: Yes, you can make an argument for why, but the total deviation can't exceed ten percent. That is a restriction. LUL Okay, but the districts could? MELLON-LACEY: The districts you could if you have a justification. But just bear in mind that you need to have a good justification because anything that you do that is outside of those deviations puts a greater likelihood that you could face challenges. Does that help? LUL Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey, this is Bronsten. MELLON-LACEY: Yes, Bronsten? KOSSOW: Does that include on the negative side as well? Like positive ten, negative ten. MELLON-LACEY: Yeah, but the deviation could be positive or negative because it's over or under. So, it's not—It doesn't specify one way or the other. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you for that. 6 MELLON-LACEY: You're welcome. LOPEZ: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: You may hear some exasperation, and I apologize. I'm trying to be nice. I understand the visceral concerns that are brought forth by both the testimony received in those areas, and also from Ms. Bath. When we adjourned for this meeting, the target was to give Ms. Bath time to come back with a proposed map for these districts that'll maybe address those concerns. `Cause right now, all we're talking about is the visceral concerns. And that won't get us where we're going. It's valid. I'd like to address it, but we have constraints. So, with working without our constraints, I go back to when we adjourned. And what is the proposal? I mean, Ms. Bath, you talk about these concerns and the history, and people being disenfranchised, and it's nothing wrong with that. And I buy into that. But give me a solution for those concerns from your perspective, please. Otherwise, we're going to stay here, spinning our wheels, for meeting on end. I yield. Thank you. KOSSOW: So, if we moved a portion of that census block to the left of—what is that? 1,500 in Council 5, it will still bring us into a negative deviation in Council 6. So, we have a positive 9.1 percent and then Council 6 will have a negative 14.63 percent. Judging by what Ms. Mellon-Lacey had said, we can try to keep it below ten percent. To see if that can work and obviously ride out what we can. I see Ms. Lui has her hand up, so I'll give it to Ms. Lui. LUL I just wanted to say that, because it impacts the District 4, and 6 especially, I would like to hear from those Commissioners so that we get a sense of things from their points of view. I wonder if Commissioner Yadao or Akamu could speak to the concerns that Stephanie has raised, or maybe make any suggestions for change here. I yield. AKAMU: Yeah, Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: Thank you. I think we're at the same place that we were when we ended last week. And when we included the Fern Forest area, etcetera, in District 5—Remember we did that and we kind of kept the council district lines the same—we still have this huge imbalance with the numbers. The only way to balance that is then revisiting Council District 7 and looking at south Kona. To possibly including some of those blocks into the Ka`u district. So, as has been said previously, one of these issues has to get settled first, I guess. And then we can start moving and then, you know, we'll play the domino effect. I do support keeping those areas of Volcano Village, etcetera—Well, Volcano Village right now is in the Ka`u district. But I do support trying to integrate those with Puna. That will create a lot of problems and challenges in the other districts as well. So, I'd be open 7 to looking more at south Kona, but that affects the whole Alii Drive issue, the pier, etcetera. So then, that's Commissioner Lopez and Commissioner Kossow also. So, it starts affecting everyone else. I think that's why Commissioner Hustace also submitted the plan of splitting the district down the middle and splitting it with a eastern and western portions. So, I think if we have to keep Fern Forest and those areas with Council District 5, I would say let's change it on this map and then let's start adjusting the numbers. And if we get to a place where that is just causing too much problems elsewhere, then we'll have to revisit. But I support changing it and seeing what happens. Thank you. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Could I ask that the Corp Counsel come back to the table, please? (Pause.) Thank you for coming up. I'm not sure where I got this idea or concept, but I seem to recall that there is a concept of submergence of populations. I guess the question is, is there such a thing? MELLON-LACEY: Submergence? YOSHINA: Yeah, you know when you have a population and you add on a separate population that is bigger than the first, and then that interest is diluted by the second. Because it seems to me, and I'm sorry to come back to this again, but that the communities of Pahala, N5'51ehu, and Wai`ohinu, sort of get lost if we add on Volcano and Fern Forest and Eden Roc on one side. And then on the other side, on the Kona side, to add on those large populations. I'm not sure that they share the same interests. Now, I understand this thing about numbers but, I'm wondering if that's a legal concern, or is that handled by that ten percent thing? MELLON-LACEY: Well, I think looking at the Code, it stresses the idea of one person, one vote. Which to me means that everybody's vote should be counted equally. And so, you want to avoid some kind of division that you think dilutes that. But I don't think the Code is particularly clear on how to do that. It seems to contemplate somebody deliberately drawing a line to suppress a particular group's opinions or votes. Or to break them up so that they somehow wouldn't have the same impact as if they were together. It seems to me, the way the Code reads, it's kind of a premeditated thing. No matter where you draw the line, somebody's going to be one side, and somebody on the other. It's probably not possible to be avoided entirely. But it's a difficult question to answer, I think. YOSHINA: Okay. So, Commissioner Akamu, you mentioned previously that the people of Ka`u could live with whatever changes that we make. Is that my understanding? AKAMU: What I was referring to was the people's connection to place, right? And that is above any political lines, wherever they move the lines, etcetera. So, that won't 8 change. We already deal with Ka`u being split with our state representatives. So, we have Onishi representing one half, Pahala, going back to Hilo. And then now we have Representative Kapela representing N5'51ehu, all the way up to south Kona. So we already deal with having two representatives. On the County side, I think for us having one representative, one council member, is important in terms of all of the PONC and land preservation projects because it's one large open space, right? The largest undeveloped stretch of coastline left in Hawaii. So, it definitely helps with us in the community working with, currently, Councilwoman David, on these issues. But I'm confident that if things were to change in the future, our council representatives will still do their best to represent the people. And if the Ka`u people feel like we are not being represented, we will do our best to let our representatives know. And we've done that, I think, throughout the years. And I appreciate the concern about the small communities out here. It is something, perhaps like the communities out in Puna, and elsewhere on the island, that it is a struggle to feel represented. And once we come up with the draft maps, at that point, I'm really excited about getting them out to the public,posting them in the libraries, because then I think we'll really have something firm that people can voice their opinions about. At that point, we'll really see where the community is once they can see an actual physical map. `Cause right now it's just the drafts that's posted. So, they aren't even able to see the tweaks. Unless they are following the meeting, or they watch the live stream recording. But if that did come to be the situation, I know I wouldn't be supportive of that, but I would of course let the community voice their opinions. I'm sure there will be many. Thank you. I yield. YOSHINA: So, Diane, that number of plus or minus five is the number. That's what we have to keep in mind as we do this. Or can we go above that plus or minus five? MELLON-LACEY: I was looking again at the Code—Excuse me, for just a minute. (Pause.) So, according to the Code in Section 36-6, it says that: The maximum council district deviation for a proposed council district shall not exceed plus or minus 5.99 percent of an ideal council district's population. So, that is really supposed to bind you to the 5.99. But, it's difficult because it gives you so many other aspirational things. Using the word: Ifpracticable, documented, high-growth areas shall be drawn to receive the most negative council district deviation percentage in the final plan so that as a high growth area or district continues to increase in population between census years, the council district's deviations may be equalized. Well, that's asking you to think ahead and assume the idea that what's happened in the past is going to continue and think ahead. If it's going to get bigger, it's going to get yet bigger, so allow for it to do that. These become difficult, I think, with the restrictions. But definitely the total deviation cannot be more than ten percent. YOSHINA: Okay. 9 MELLON-LACEY: And then it also says: If a population ofpermanent residents must be assigned to a different council district to ensure that the total deviation is less than ten percent and such equalization involves reassigning any portion of a subdivision, the entire subdivision shall be moved as a unit, if practicable. YOSHINA: If practicable. MELLON-LACEY: Yeah, that if practicable thing. YOSHINA: I got it. I understand. LUL And it's not. MELLON-LACEY: Yeah. I mean this is the hard job, I think, that as commissioners you face. And if there was a pat answer, I remember, I believe it was in south Kona, where a gentleman testified and he said, "This should just be done by a computer. And if it was just done by a computer, there'd be nobody having any kind of feelings about it. It would just be done by a computer. That's how it should be done". And he was really adamant about it. I thought about it a lot afterwards. I thought, well, if you want to just achieve strict numbers, yes, he's right. But that takes the entire human element out of it, so. YOSHINA: I can understand that. So, it's up to us to think about things like community and all of those human elements. MELLON-LACEY: Yes, and I think it would be an ill-conceived plan if none of that was thought about. Because somebody sitting in Washington could do that and have no knowledge of what the island is about. But I don't think that would produce a plan that the community would be happy with. YOSHINA: Thank you. Chair Kossow, I think on this iteration of the map, we were carving up Waimea. Is that right? KOSSOW: That's correct. YOSHINA: My only concern there would be, that we try to maintain the integrity of that community of Waimea, if possible. I don't know how to do that, but you know, that's my concern. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. Ms. Lui, I saw you had your hand up. Did you want to LUL Yeah, briefly. I understand Commissioner Dwayne's comment too. I know we've been struggling with Waimea as well. I just wondered if in like 4 and 5, we had gone 10 back and forth about HPP, and Diana's thing about keeping subdivisions together,just reminded me of that. I wonder if we start there and just—because I know in Commissioner Bath's proposal, she would split it. So, I wonder if we could just maybe start there because there's a lot of numbers there. If we have to split it, it makes a difference. If we don't split it, then of course, it moves everything. Were most people in agreement with splitting HPP? I yield. BATH: Stephanie. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I've spoken to people in HPP. I haven't gone down there and knocked on doors or anything. But when I've seen people from that area, two of them said, well they would want to know the benefits over and the reasons to split HPP. I did a mauka-makai split and then more of a road and census block split. I talked with them about that. They were open. I was actually surprised with the openness of the possibility of splitting a subdivision. There are people in HPP that want a Puna makai alternate route. And they think that it's necessary. And so, they said that Railroad would be the appropriate split. I didn't get anything negative, but that doesn't mean they there aren't negative feelings. I know there are the YIMBYs and the NIMBYs in Puna, as there are everywhere. Not in my backyard and in my backyard. But I didn't get anything negative. People understand that change is coming. And there is one contractor that plans to build a thousand homes within Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision. They have an active goal of doing that. So, things are changing. I yield. Oh Chair? I would like to clarify one thing. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: When I was creating the District 5 on this map, or the one that I was proposing, keeping Fern Forest in upper Puna, I didn't say anything about Volcano because Volcano was in Ka`u. And I didn't want to ask for something that we weren't deserving of. However, Volcano and all of those subdivisions that are adjacent to the Park, really are in upper Puna. And by having them being put in Ka`u, their voices are they are not being represented. So, I just wanted to be clear that, during the last meeting, I think you were breaking up, but I think you asked me to draw a map and determine what we wanted District 5 to look like, and that's what I've been doing. And it includes Volcano Village, and it includes `Ohi`a Estates, and all of those subdivisions right up to the Park entrance there. So, when we're having the dialogue, I'd like that to be included in the dialogue. And if we can't do it, we can't do it, but those people need to be represented. Upper Puna is not being—All the voices in upper Puna are not being heard. I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, did you submit that map into the ESRI site? BATH: Actually, I did, but it's not coming up. So, I did—It's not coming up. 11 KOSSOW: Okay. I think maybe work with the Elections staff to get it shared into the County of Hawai`i's site. That might be the issue. Meanwhile, Ms. Lui, did you have your hand raised? LUL Yes, I did. I was just going to say, why don't we do what we did last time. Which is just go right to the map and start moving things around. It would make it a lot easier `cause we do need to come up with something by the end of today. Thank you. I yield. (Pause.) I don't think we have time to consider yet another map. So, if we can do it today, it would be great. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. That brings up a good point. Ms. Bath, maybe if you can work off of Working Doc I and base off of what you see fit for Council 5, I think it was that you were working on. And then we can kind of move on from there. BATH: It's Stephanie. Yeah, I've actually been doing that. And it's done. I'm just wondering how KOSSOW: Maybe if you can just tell us, so we can do the working draft at the present moment with everybody watching this one. BATH: Yeah, that would be great. I think that's what Ms. Lui was suggesting we do. So, is somebody at a mouse? Are you going to be doing it from over there? `Cause we don't have KOSSOW: Yeah, we're doing it over here. BATH: Oh, okay, great. Yeah so, where you see District 4, which is the red, and you see Ka`u, right there. Yeah. Go ahead and put a little rectangle in Fern Forest and drag it all up to the Park. (Pause.) Okay. Now to the northwest, drag all of that, up to Stainback Highway. Now zoom into the Village. I am going to let you know that the domino effect that this has on District 5 being right at their number has a huge impact. KOSSOW: So, you wanted Volcano Village in this? BATH: Correct. And everything—okay, that's not Volcano Village. But everything there that's correct and keep going. Put the Village, all that. Yup, that's it. That's what District 5 looks like. Can you scroll up a little bit to the north just to make sure? LUL Can you include the district numbers? BATH: So, that should be District 5, yeah. KOSSOW: Yeah. The right is Council 5. The left is Council 6. BATH: So, that's it. I yield. 12 KOSSOW: Do you see those numbers, Ms. Lui? LUL Oh yes, I do. I see it below. Yeah. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. BATH: That's what the testimony is wanting for District 5. And we're overI think we're over a hundred and seventy. So, we might have to work on that. HUSTACE: Commissioner Bath, do you include the Volcano Golf Course and those homes around there too? BATH: No. HUSTACE: Are those Volcano residents? BATH: The golf course is sort of a different community, from what I've talked with people up in Volcano about. The golf course is the golf course, and the Village is the Village. HUSTACE: They're just down the road from each other, right? Don't they shop in the Village there? BATH: You'd have to ask them. HUSTACE: They're not here with us right now. BATH: Yeah, so I was on the CERT team up in Volcano. And before we had our CERT team formed, we spoke with people from up there, and it's a different community. That's all that I've gotten. That the Village, the people that live within the Village, polarize towards it. I really can't answer that question. You'd have to—Someone would have to go speak to them. Do you want to put them in Puna? It's going to bring the numbers way up. I'm not asking for it. Nobody's testified to me that they want that, from the golf course. I yield. HUSTACE: Just the concern that because their next closest town is Pahala if I'm not mistaken. So, they would be geographically closer related to Volcano Village in my assumption and my understanding of the area. BATH: Okay. So, a lot of peopleI can't really speak on that. People shop in Hilo. People from Pahala shop in Hilo. YOSHINA: Mr. Hustace, how many people would that be adding if you kept them with, I guess, Council District 4? 13 HUSTACE: If you put the residents around the Volcano Golf Club and the Winery area, it shows approximately just shy of two hundred. YOSHINA: Okay. And what would that do to the deviation? HUSTACE: Well, we're well beyond that right now. So, right now, Council 5 is at twenty-six percent over. So, we need to deal with something on the Hilo end, but this is where we're talking about community and geographic distance meant for people. These people the namesake of the Village right nearby and the National Park nearby too. I don't know if they're in the Ka`u or Puna. So, if we're talking about putting these people in Volcano Village, these people are also right by Volcano Village too. I'm just throwing that question out there. YOSHINA: Right. I understand. Thank you. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, do you yield? YOSHINA: Yes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah so, I have us above at a hundred and seventy. So, I think I forgot to move something. Can we move down to Highway 130,please? Lower Puna and where District 5 and District 4 meet, down by HPP and `Ainaloa. (Pause.) Okay, scroll south. Oh, okay, that's why. Okay, `Ainaloa subdivision needs to be put into District 4. That's the one that's sort of triangular, right there at the bottom. There you go. Yeah. (Pause) Boy you're good. KOSSOW: How far up does it go? BATH: That was perfect. You did great. What are the numbers look like now? HUSTACE: Council 5 is at ten percent over. Council 4 is twenty percent over. And Council 6 is thirty-two under. BATH: Okay. I have District 5 at 170, so I have to see what's missing here. Try wait. (Pause.) Go and move down towards Kea`au town. Oh okay, I see what it is. If you go to the east, there's that whole block that's west northwest of HPP. Move that into 4. Can you zoom into Kea`au town,please? Okay. So, that area to the east of Highway 130 needs to go to 4. I'm still not seeing—okay now scroll down south. Scroll north rather. I'm sorry. Okay, now zoom in. Okay, that all looks good. What are your numbers? HUSTACE: Council 5 is at nine percent over, 9.59 percent over. 14 BATH: How many people is that? HUSTACE: That is 24,365. BATH: Okay. Something's not right because I don't have that in mine. Try wait. HUSTACE: I still have part of HPP in Council 5. Did you want them all in Council 4? BATH: Oh yeah, I see. Yeah. That's it. That was what the problem was. Thank you for seeing that. It should get down to 170. HUSTACE: And then the four BATH: I think there's one more census block. HUSTACE: How about the four that jump over across 130? BATH: I kept them in 5, but you can move them down. But the domino effect of that is going to be great. What do you have at 5's numbers now? HUSTACE: Five (5) is only a hundred forty-six over. BATH: Okay. I have us at a hundred and thirty-six over. Is that what you said you had? HUSTACE: 146. BATH: Okay. I have 136 so there's something off, but we can work with that for now. HUSTACE: And then so, Commissioner Bath, how did you tackle the huge jump for Council 4, then? BATH: I was just doing the assignment that was given to me of letting the Commission know what District 5 wanted. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. So, that would mean that we would have to take from Council District 3 and move it into HPP. And then Council 2 would have to move a little bit more into that residential area. Which might affect our idea with Honoli`i being the dividing line between 2 and 1. BATH: As I said, the domino effect is in place. The only difference is that we're startingIf we correct District 4, the domino effect is going to come from Puna, instead of from Kona and Kohala down, as it has in the past. And that was the input that I got from community. Is that they wanted to start working from District 4, District 5, and Ka`u. And moving up, and making the adjustments in upper Puna and Kona, rather than Puna always getting the brunt of it. I yield. 15 KOSSOW: So, Commissioners, would we like to proceed with this? And then make changes to the other four districts? Five districts? HUSTACE: Chair, if I may. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: We can try and go from here and see what happens, and see how the commissioners feel. That's my best guess at this point. This is going to shift the Hamakua back into Hilo, from my assumption. Just kind of a predictive assumption there. And then, we'll just kind of play it out and see how it goes and see what the sentiment of the commissioners are. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Is Commissioner Ah Nee still on? AH NEE: Present. KOSSOW: Hi. I was thinking, so District 3 in this case, would have to go up into half of HPP. Based off of the number of deviations. Do you have any comments or understandings of that? AH NEE: Excuse me, I'm still looking at the map, and I had pondered that as well. If District 3 went into Hawaiian Paradise Park, how much of that would it be? And then, again,just looking through this map on the totality of Hawaiian Paradise Park comes into District 3, and we cut at Maku`u, would that alleviate some of the stress of the percentage in District 4? And I apologize, I'm still getting used to this mapping process. So, it's a good treat to learn as you get older to practice new things. So, that's an option. Even going north might possibly be an option. Even up to potentially Laupahoehoe and still be in the Hilo district, in the Hilo moku. I should say more so the Hilo moku. But those might be actions that we want to entertain looking in. If the Puna and Ka`u district is well, mostly Puna. Puna seems to be very saturated and very tight in that process, options would be Hawaiian Paradise Park, and maybe even up to Laupahoehoe. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ah Nee. Any other commissioners want to have any discussion? HUSTACE: Chair, if I may, I'm just going to start moving some census blocks and we kind of go from there? Unless KOSSOW: Go ahead, Mr. Hustace. Mr. Yoshina? YOSHINA: Is my understanding from that recent discussion that, there's a contemplated move for Council 3 up to Laupahoehoe? KOSSOW: I think that was just an idea. But it was for Council 2. Any of the Hilo districts. 16 YOSHINA: I don't think that makes good sense. Council 2 is, as I noted last time, if you need population for Council 1, perhaps you can move that line from Honoli`i back to Wainaku. Although the census block is kind of weird over there. That's my only comment. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. So, Mr. Hustace is working on moving these census blocks over. It looks like we're at a 2.44 percent deviation on Council 4. And then HUSTACE: And Chair, based upon some of the testimony and evidence, I've split it at Railroad, as best as possible. But as we've had other testifiers and conversations, you know, we don't want to—They shouldn't have to travel—How does that work? So, this is Council 3 on the Hilo side of HPP, and then still along the highway there, 130. So,just want to put that out there. BATH: Mr. Hustace? Ms. Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, go ahead. BATH: I would encourage—Can you scroll down so we see north? You're doing excellent, by the way. You're doing really well. I would suggest that in that last segment there, the one closest south to HPP, you bring it to 13''. The census block that is 13'h Street or Road. Up towards 130. HUSTACE: What is 1P Street? What is the representation of 13'h Street in HPP? BATH: Do you see where the letters Hawaiian Paradise Park are on the map? HUSTACE: Yes. BATH: It's right there. Right under there. HUSTACE: I'm just asking the significance of the 13'h Street? BATH: There is no significance of 13'h Street. It's just trying to keep the par contained as much as we can in two different areas. So rather than going along highwayI tried doing the mauka-makai split, and it didn't work. I did it three or four times, and I couldn't bring the numbers up. So, what I did was, what you're doing now. And I think HPP can weigh in on it during the public hearings. So, I just brought it up to 13''. Where you have part of it in 3 and HUSTACE: Yeah, unfortunately there isn't like a clear—For this census block on the Hilo side, for whatever reason, the census block isn't divided by the street block. So, I'm not 17 BATH: Right. So, move south, or move east to the next and take it from 13'h towards 130. (Pause.) I'm confused with what you're doing. HUSTACE: There I did, right there. Commissioner Bath, it's right up to the 13'h there. BATH: Oh, it is. Okay now go north towards Kaloli Point. The Kaloli Point community is a pretty tight-knit community. So, I would encourage giving putting that Kaloli Point back into HPP. However, could you zoom in a little? I think that's how it—. A little more, please? Yeah, okay, that's it. So, I have the numbers at negative 73. Is that correct, for District 3? HUSTACE: For District 3? BATH: I mean, I'm sorry. For District 4. HUSTACE: District 4, I'm at negative 189. BATH: Oh, okay. HUSTACE: Which is within the deviation, so we can leave it there for now. And we can come back to this later if we have to. I'm going to transverse a little further north here. Traverse here and try to move these populations around. KOSSOW: Do we have any suggestions from commissioners for 2 and 3, regarding the split here. We have to find seven thousand no wait, we have to . Which one is going to have most? Is that going to be District 2? We have to move everybody into District 2, right? HUSTACE: Yeah. So, we're going to have to just kind of spread out the population now. So, Council 3 sitting at thirty-two percent over. And you want to give to Council 6, but there isn't any sort of connectivity to Council 6, right at this point. We're moving further away from Council 6. So, I have to give to Council 2 and kind of make our way north around the island and see where we go. So, I have to give to Council 2 now, Chair. KOSSOW: Go ahead. YOSHINA: So, this is Yoshina again. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: What population are we looking for now? KOSSOW: We're trying to reduce Council District 3's population and moving it into Council 2. So, we can move that population into Council District 1. YOSHINA: So, what is that number? 18 KOSSOW: What are we at now? HUSTACE: Well,just moving a couple blocks at a time here. So, right now I've got Council District 3 down to fourteen percent over. Council 2 is twenty-two percent over now. So, I just have to kind of smooth it out across the island. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, as Mr. Hustace puts this together, can you refresh my memory? You said that the best way to change the 1 and 2 boundary line is to at least do it from Honoli`i or Wainaku, correct? YOSHINA: Yeah, Wainaku River is another—it's an option. If you move the boundary between 1 and 2 from Honoli`i back to, or southward, to Wainaku River. Although the census block is rather weird looking. KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Just trying to figure out what is best to give to Council 2 from Council 3. And would welcome some feedback on that. We're still trying to keep Pohakuloa Training Area in Council 3. I do worry about some of the connectivity, but it's not a populated area so I don't know if that's an issue. KOSSOW: We probably could adjust it to being in Council 2 if it ends up closing in. HUSTACE: And then for our Hilo commissioners, what is—We've received some testimony about our Hawaiian Homelands in Keaukaha and Pana`ewa. So, I want to keep those together based upon that testimony. So, what is reasonable? I can just try and move a couple, but what is a reasonable area to give to Council 3? Like that there off of—What is that street here? Is this Iwalani? We're at decent numbers now. Council 3 is a little bit over, but only 1.75. I'm going to move to the north side of the island here now. As we move further, I got to give to Council 1 now. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the boundary between Districts I and 2.) KOSSOW: So, there's about—we'll say about five thousand left in order for us to move the deviation. And it would go back to the original line, probably even further than that. YOSHINA: What is the northern boundary of District 2 now? KOSSOW: We're not there yet. We're almost there based off of the deviation here. HUSTACE: So, right now, I'm back at the current boundary at the Wailuku River. And now I have to dive further into Hilo to take away some of that population. We had some proposals about the line at Waianuenue. So, we can try that and see where that takes us. YOSHINA: No, I 19 LUL No. No, I don't like that. No. HUSTACE: Okay. Then we're at an impasse here because I can't—Council 2 is at twenty-two percent over, right now. YOSHINA: That's at Wailuku River? HUSTACE: Yeah, it's at the current line right now, at the Wailuku River. And we're still at twenty-one percent over for Council 2. LUL Council 1 is over too—also over. HUSTACE: That's right. Yeah. AH NEE: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Commissioner Ah Nee? AH NEE: I was wondering if we can switch back and maybe give a little bit of Paradise Park back to Puna? And see if those numbers in Council 4 shifts just slightly. And maybe we can shift 3 just slightly. Just to see if we leave the lines at Wailuku or Wainaku area from Council 1, if we can take—for District 3 to take parts of House Lots. And maybe give back Puna a little bit of Hawaiian Paradise Park to see how slowly that might shift. I yield. KOSSOW: Commissioner Ah Nee, your suggestion was to take some of—or reduce down Council District 3's numbers by moving Council 4 into some parts of the subdivisions at HPP. Is that what I AH NEE: Yes. To give some of Council 4 back—Hawaiian Paradise Park back to Council 4 slightly and see how that might shift. And if District 3 could grab a little bit of House Lots,just north of Kanoelehua. How that might shift to keep the boundaries at Wainaku for District 1. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Miss Ah Nee. HUSTACE: Kanoelehua? KOSSOW: Kanoelehua, yeah. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the projected map accordingly.) So, we're trying to play around with the deviations here. This one might be a little bit more difficult. Trying to put less into Council 3 to allow Council 3 to move into Council 2 a little bit more. And we're just trying to find the best place to put 3 into 4. LUL Right now, with Council 3 being under, we could also move the boundary—and 1 being so far over—we could move the boundary of 1 back up to Honoli`i. But Council 2 20 then is really huge. Let's see. That would just expand Council 2, but it would give Council 3 room to expand northward into Hilo. HUSTACE: I'm going to switch and just go to the other side of the island. Just see what we can do over here. Because now, we'll go the other direction instead. Oh,please, Chair. KOSSOW: I'm going to call for a recess. We'll do a five-minute recess. Thank you. (Five-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Alright, calling the meeting back into order. I just want to let everybody know really quickly before we move on to our maps here. I will call a quick lunch at 12:00 p.m. And we'll try to vacate our areas by 12:50 because the Chambers need to be used. Which would mean that we would have to finish the draft plan by 12:50. So, Mr. Hustace is going to move over into the west side of the island. And we'll open it up for discussion. HUSTACE: Thanks, Chair. So, I'm just going to move over to the west side. And I'm going to start giving some population. Just looking at the numbers here, Council 6 is thirty-four percent under so I'm just going to move it into the Kona area to grab some numbers. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Mellon-Lacey, I see your hand raised. MELLON-LACEY: Yes, thank you, Chair. I just really want to remind everyone that, this is from section 36-4 of the Hawaii County Code, number(11): All parts of each council district shall be contiguous to the council district and be reachable by roads internal to the council district. So, that's really something to keep in mind as you make further adjustments, is that we have this road mandate. And that to me, does not look like something you could change. You're stuck with that so; we have to be mindful of the roads within whatever divisions you make. Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey, would you mind clarifying that again? Are you saying that the roadway needs to be the defining political boundary line? MELLON-LACEY: Well, what it says is, all parts of each council district shall be contiguous to the council district and be reachable by roads internal to the council district. So, as I understand that, it can't be that you'd have to go outside the council district to get to another part of the council district. It has to have roads within it that connect. Reachable by roads internal to the council district. YOSHINA: So, Diane—This is Yoshina. 21 KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: That's a connectivity thing, right? MELLON-LACEY: That's connectivity, exactly. YOSHINA: Okay. Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Did I answer your question, Chair? KOSSOW: Yes, thank you. HUSTACE: I think I'll give an example, what Corp Counsel, Ms. Diana, is saying here. So, for example on our map here, we'd have to make a change for P6hakuloa Training Area because you would have toSo, if I'm in Hilo, and if I want to get up across the Saddle, and I'm in Council 3, part of Council 3 is on the other side of the Saddle here. So, we'd have to make some changes there, which we can adjust at some point. But we have to make sure we keep that to mind. So, I'd like to shift over to Council 6, and try and balance this discrepancy out here. So, first of all, I'm going to kind of go to the current boundary lines and see where that takes us. KOSSOW: I would say maybe place it in the current council district. Would probably be the best for the deviation in order to get that numbers. HUSTACE: So, we're looking at—that's right around where the current boundary lines are. Some weird discrepancy, but I don't know if that's a mapping thing or something changed with the census blocks. Because that is not a block, currently. Alright. So, that puts Council 6, if I move it back to its current boundary lines outside of Kealakekua, 6 is still short,just shy of twenty percent. So, that's 4,400 individuals. So, we're going to have to move a little further north to make up that loss. So, my assumption would be to take Kealakekua all into the one KOSSOW: Can you scroll up just a little bit? HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: That'll give you a bigger area. I think there's a census block right in the Keauhou area. HUSTACE: In the Keauhou area, Chair? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Along Kam III? 22 KOSSOW: Yeah, if you do it right along Kamehameha III Highway. And then mauka of that. That should be good, I think. HUSTACE: Alright. So, I'll work my way up there north, Chair. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the projected map.) Is there a clear defining line on theSo, right now, we're at—so just moving towards Keauhou. So, we're moving Council 6 all the way into Keauhou now. Council 6 sits at two percent under. So, within that deviation. KOSSOW: I think the State district goes right against Plumeria Road, right around Lako Street. That's Loloa. That's going to take you over, right? HUSTACE: Yeah. Are we comfortable at that, right now? KOSSOW: I think it's fine for right now. HUSTACE: It did take a whole mauka portion here. That might be an issue with the connectivity though. KOSSOW: You mind scrolling in there? I just want to see what area that is. HUSTACE: Zooming in, Chair? KOSSOW: Yes. And then what roadway is mauka to that? Bishop? HUSTACE: So, Donkey Mill Road. KOSSOW: Donkey Mill. Okay. HUSTACE: We have a couple that are on the other side of the road here though, unfortunately. So, here we have that's where the highways connect. KOSSOW: I'm fine with it, right now. Just got to think about that a little bit more. HUSTACE: Commissioner Akamu, any thoughts on pushing Council 6 up into the Keauhou area? AKAMU: Yeah. I'm okay with this right now too. Because I think this would definitely allow the Volcano—Fern Forest folks to be able to be included in their district. So, that's kind of why I like also, that we have two drafts of the maps. That hopefully we can agree on and put forth. So, I think this is okay for now. Also, earlier, you were asking about the Volcano Golf Course area. So, that district, or that ahupua`a, is Keauhou. Traditionally, that ahupua`a and yeah, that small little area right there. Traditionally, that part is still in the Ka`u part. Right over where `I`iwi Road is,where the Volcano Village area is to the right, that's part of the `Ola`a Forest area and the `Ola`a ahupua`a next door. So, I mean it does make some sense, traditionally, to have Volcano, that golf course area, connected to the Ka`u area. Also, the Ka`u ahupua`a goes all the way to Keauhou 23 traditionally. So, at least in one aspect, we can sort of preserve some traditional lines. But yeah, I'm okay with pushing that far forth into Keauhou for now. And it'll be great to hear the community's response and reaction and thoughts. I do think it definitely brings to the forefront Mr. Yoshina's comments earlier, because there is a larger population in that south Kona area. So, definitely it can dominate and drive the conversation for the district. But we hope that, you know, our council representative will be able to do a good job at balancing all the different communities of interest within the district. So, for now, I think this is a good plan. Thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, do you mind if we can go back to the Keauhou area? I'm thinking maybe keep mauka in 7. And then maybe work your way in to town on the makai side. HUSTACE: So, for example, this block here, Chair, this has 822 residents. It's a rather large unwieldy block, yeah. Okay. And then I'd have to take some of the other ones there in the middle of it, but yeah, let's see. So, the mauka portions into 7? KOSSOW: Yeah, leave the mauka portions into 7. That's north of the Holualoa Road. And then, makai of that, you can HUSTACE: Sorry, Chair. Highway 11 or Highway 180? Either the Belt Road or Mamalahoa. KOSSOW: The Belt Road. HUSTACE: So, those that are mauka of it go into 7? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay, so, let's double check. So, that would put Council 6 back under, about six percent. Is there a tradeoff, Chair, that you were thinking? KOSSOW: How much more do you need? HUSTACE: Council 6 is six percent under. KOSSOW: Six percent under, okay. Okay, yeah. You're gonna take more of the makai side, all the way down to the ocean. Take the shopping center. That's all um HUSTACE: And the shopping center? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: I don't know if there are any residentsOh, there are actually. In the same block there are 450 residents. Wow. 24 KOSSOW: And there's new development up in that area. HUSTACE: Okay. And then the more makai connection here. KOSSOW: What are we at now? HUSTACE: This might be an issue here with some of these blocks, the coastal block along Alii Drive. KOSSOW: Does that block go up against Alii? HUSTACE: Yeah, the one on the coast here, Chair? Yeah, so this one, it's a contiguous block. It carries all the way up a little ways. This is where I struggle too. There is connectivity within that district along Alii. Alii is that boundary. Right now, this puts us at, Council 6 is 3.6 percent under. So, Council 6 has taken some of this makai portion. Okay? KOSSOW: I think we'll just leave it for now. HUSTACE: Okay. Alright. So, let's tackle the 6 and 8 boundary ? and 8 boundary. So, 7 is going to have to take of 8 then. We can start with the makai portion, as we had in previous iterations, with Alii Drive and the Bay. I can push it back to the current boundary here, at Old Airport. And this block actually—oh. That's interesting. This blockIt shows our current district goes down Old Mamalahoa, on the other side of Old Airport but, that's one block now, though. So, I don't know if that was split somehow, somewhere. KOSSOW: I think you're going to have to go into Malulani Gardens, and then into Nani Kailua. So, it's going to be all that. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the projected map accordingly.) HUSTACE: Okay. At this state, 7 is four percent under. Alright. I'm just going to keep moving. LOPEZ: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Do I have anything to say about this? KOSSOW: What was that? LOPEZ: Do I have anything to say about what you're doing here? LUL Do you? 25 LOPEZ: Hello? KOSSOW: What we're doing here? LOPEZ: Yes. KOSSOW: We're trying to get the LOPEZ: No, no. I said, do I have anything to say about what you're doing to me, here. I mean you want to keep going on, but at what point do I comment on what you've just done for District 8? KOSSOW: It's open for comment. BATH: Here, here. LOPEZ: Thank you. So, I can't buy into this. Again, this goes back to your draft 2, I believe it was, your first of two drafts that you had submitted, where I objected to turning District 8 into a bedroom community of Waimea. Making it residential for that, connected there and losing the full identity of Kailua town. As it would be the same as splitting Hilo now. Gutting it. It's not something I can buy into. I mean, you can go ahead and move on, but I'm telling you what you got there is not going to work for the heart of the west Hawaii. Thank you. YOSHINA: Chair, this is Yoshina again. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I'd like to thank Mr. Lopez for his comments about Hilo town. Thank you. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I'd like to thank Mr. Lopez's comments on his feelings about his district being changed because now everyone's starting to understand what Puna's been going through for decades. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair, this is Yoshina again. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I think we all understand what will happen, but to the extent that you can minimize these changes, I think that's what we all need to have. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. 26 LUL Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just want to say, we're just experimenting right now. This is not—Nothing is set in stone here. We're just moving things around to see what the numbers might look like. So, this is far from anything final. So, if people could just, you know, people are making their comments which is great, and we will end up with something different than this. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? This is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I believe at the last meeting, we were told that we needed to come up with one plan. KOSSOW: That is correct. YOSHINA: And that plan will be our agreed upon plan. So, you know, I think we have to be mindful of that. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Yoshina. MELLON-LACEY: Chair, if I may? KOSSOW: Is that Ms. Bath? MELLON-LACEY: No, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey, thank you. Sorry about that. MELLON-LACEY: Along with Commissioner Yoshina's comments, I just want to say that we're trying to get to one draft plan. It's not a final plan. It's a plan that can be taken and put out in the community for comment. And undoubtedly, will be further refined. So, we are not—The goal is not a final plan today, but a plan that people feel comfortable going forward with for community comment. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Yeah. Just in terms of growth areas, I would believe like, District 9 will be a growth area as well as maybe District 4 and 5. I'm not sure. But as Ms. Mellon-Lacey said, sometimes to have a little bit of a lower count in order to account for possible growth 27 over the next ten years—You can't predict it completely, but we all know of development proposals for some of these areas. Thank you. KOSSOW: The more that Mr. Hustace works on this map, and District 8 now goes into Waik6loa, the next thing was that this Council District 9 is going to go back into Pu`u Kapu. And then after that, Honoli`i, the district between 1 and 2, is going to be pushed into Waianuenue Avenue. Which I already can kind of see where this is going to go. This isn't going to be a map that we're going to be supporting, and I think we're going to go in circles here. So, I think that we should revert back to our other map, or we stop now and go back into the other working draft. I'm kind of lost in suggestions here. We already work on the map in the last meeting, and we had some really positive progress. LUL I agree with that suggestion, Commissioner Kossow. I think that we were happy with at least pretty much the northern part of the island, all the way down to 4, 5, 6. So, I would agree to go back there. And as Diana said, this is not the very final. So, getting feedback and then working again might be helpful. I just wondered too, since we can't see all 9 districts don't fit on the screen, if you could show the district fields, that would be helpful as we're moving things around, right on the map. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the projected map accordingly.) Oh, okay. There you go. Thanks. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. I agree with that, and I agree with Mr. Lopez. You know, we worked on this the last meeting, and we tried to keep the integrity of Kona within that area. And so, I share the same sentiments as him. If anybody has any objections, I'm going to ask Mr. Hustace to move back to the original map that we had. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I'd like to see that map. I object until I see what I'm agreeing to. Can you put that map up on the screen, please? `Cause I was in and out of that last meeting, and I don't know that I agreed to that map. KOSSOW: He's just going to save it right now. Save the map progress that we have right now, and then we're going to pull up the 1-1. (Pause.) So, at this current stage, from this map—This is what we worked on since this morning, earlier this morning, and built that where we were, Council 6 still has a negative seven percent deviation. And we have some positives within Council 2 and 42 and 5. But I think this is something that we're going to have to work on, is within this boundary. Because every other council district is, I thinkI think we all worked on this one, and we made some progress. Yeah, we made pretty big compromises. District 7 and District 8 made compromises in the last meeting. And Mr. Akamu is making huge compromises. Mr. Hustace and Ms. Lui's making compromises. So, I think we're going to have to revert back into this one. And I think we're just going to have a lengthier discussion between 4 and 5. 28 BATH: Commissioner Bath. May I please see the map that we're talking about? So, I can confirm whether or not I, District 5 Commissioner, agreed to that map. If you can take away the deviation that—the cart on the bottom and make it—I'd like to see District 5 and District 4,please? That's not even close toI never agreed to that. That's so not District 5. I can't even have a dialogue about starting with this as a possibility. Because the compromises that you folks are saying, and the sacrifices you folks are saying—You know, where the district line between 7 and 8 is drawn, no matter where that line draws, you're going to get representation. Your communities are going to get representation. I think the same is true between the line between District 2 and District 3. The infrastructure, the resources, the representation is going to be there. It has been traditionally. When we start moving down to District 5, if this is what we're presenting, and if this is what we have to work with, if this is what District 4 and District 5 and Ka`u have to work with, and the rest of you guys have your compromises, the compromises that you're making, I don't see as affecting your representation and your voices. Not really as voters. Upper Puna has been denied a voice for so long that it's very concerning. And that needs to change. Puna is growing and we're not being representative. And I feel for everybody. I feel for you. However, if we're looking at traditional lines being redrawnIf we're going with traditional lines, and honoring that, what we're asking for makes sense. The numbers that we're putting out, the numbers that I just gave you, were really reasonable for Puna. And I cannot support this. I'm representing my district and I cannot support this going to this map as a baseline. And you sticking us, the three districts, 6, 5, and 4, have to figure out what we're going to do with us, and you guys are all good to go. I have a problem with that, and I speak for my district. I yield. HUSTACE: Chair, I have something to add. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: When we talk about concessions, I'm just going to put it up on the map here, this is Waimea town. I may get rung out by my community for splitting Waimea in half, but I am making this concession here for the benefit of the Hamakua District. We've had a lot of conversations about these community members outside of Hilo Bay, that more so identify with Hilo town. And those, as you move up Hamakua Coast, are more ag focused, rural focused. And to align with the numbers, it has to push into Waimea. And so, I've made the concession here that Waimea splits. Now this is going to be a controversial thing in the Waimea community. It actually puts me, as a commissioner, in a different district altogether, to be honest and clear with the Commissioners. I would no longer be in District 9 for this sake right here. Just being clear. But I'm making this concession for the benefit of finding the right balance for the communities. Now, Waimea has been split in the past, not to this extent. And only a tail portion of Waimea, out here by Lakeland, outside the Pu`u Kapu area, Nani Waimea, all these areas have been part of Council 1 in the past, and their vote was diluted. So, I'm trying to give those people of my community, a greater vote, and a greater voice by adding more of their fellow community members together. That was my reasoning here. And I still have some concerns about where that line is particularly drawn in the community. But I'm making that concession there for the sake of my community members. Thank you. 29 KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Yeah. I was going to say too, I think we have all made concessions, but that still doesn't mean that how big of a concession everything is. I guess I'm thinking like, you know, the more members you have in your district, in a way, the more diluted the vote. You know, one person, one vote. But if you have a district with a lot of people over the average then, each of those votes is counting a little bit less. I'm wondering then, if given that, we've got overages in 4 and 5. To give them more voice, could we add more people to Council 3, for example. Especially since we know there will be expansion in those other areas. You know, we're looking at ten years, which seems like a long time, but we also are thinking, Stephanie, like recommending in the next census to make three districts instead of two for Puna area. So, some of the things we may just have to live with for ten years. But anyway, I'm just suggesting perhaps we put a little bit more into 3 and little bit less in those because you know, if you're over, you're already diluting the vote a bit. So, maybe again, putting a littleCouncil 6 is already under quite a bit. Could we move a little there? It might not make total sense at the moment, but it could be better for the future. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Yeah. You know, this is really the essence of redistricting. That everyone comes in and makes a pitch. I think for me, the second version of this map was unacceptable because it's no longer Hilo town. And I think Hilo and Kona, the Kailua area, are important. Well, and Waimea for that matter, are important for the fact that they have been central to the development of the island. I don't want to leave out Ka`u because I have somea lot of aloha, for Ka`u as well. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is map number two would essentially destroy Hilo. Hilo would not be Hilo, the way map two is construed. I prefer map number one over the other maps. Now, I understand that Council 4, 5, are going to be impacted. But is there a way to incrementally add to Council 5, to give it a bit more population? I guess what I'm asking is that, is there a way just to move census blocks from one council district into another to even things out? I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes, there's some comments about(indiscernible) and it all focuses on representation. Which is vital. Please don't underestimate what I'm trying to say, but other factors that were also brought up in that conversation for District 4 and 5 was, people going to the same shopping centers together, people congregating together, people going to the same schools, people that have like interests, so it's not just representation. Although, that was the focus of the comment. So, it's a very multifaceted perspective and it's also an island-wide perspective you need to maintain. Besides the serious constraints 30 that we operate under. It's a bigger nut than just, again, not to under emphasize, but bigger nut to crack than just representation. Thank you. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: One of the things on this map, and Corp Counsel brought this up, and we've talked about it in the past is connectivity, and I mentioned it earlier. So, if you're in Council 3, in the Pana`ewa area, and you want to go back into Council 3, in the Hilo Forest Reserve for example, you'd have to cross through Council 2. So, we need to make an adjustment there. Either we put everything more mauka into Council 2, for the connectivity's sake, or we switch some things kind of in the Hilo area. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, would you like to see Pohakuloa within Council District 2? YOSHINA: Sure, but you know, the comment I made earlier about Pohakuloa was the command strucutre. And the command structure for Pohakuloa is in Keaukaha. So, I'd just throw that out. But you could give that to Council 2. It's okay. Thank you. AH NEE: Chair, Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee. AH NEE: Aloha. So, I am looking at the map. I understand that there's the Pohakuloa Training Area, I mean there is the command Army base in my current district that I live in. And so, a possible idea is to, and I think I seen it on a previous map, but maybe we could just slightly adjust it on this one? Putting Keaukaha and Pana`ewa, so all the way from Keaukaha Hawaiian Homesteads and Leleiwi, all the way to the Pana`ewa at Makalika Street. Which includes the ag part. Mostly all of Keaukaha Homestead ag. If we shift that into District 2 and then draw the line at, I believe this would be, either Pu`ainako or even Mohouli, and shift that into District 2. I'm just looking at—I'm okay if Pohakuloa Training Area is not in the same district as the district I represent, or I am representing at the moment. `Cause I really don't think there's a whole lot of people living there that are voting in the Training Area. Yes, you probably have people in the Command Center that are on-island residents. But they may not even live and vote in that same space that they work in. So, looking at representation, I'm okay with the Hilo shifting as far as the dynamic—Hilo has always been split into two particular spaces. The Wailuku to Wailoa ahupua`a. And then there is most of Waiakea, which is Wailoa all the way to Shipman, H5'ena, which is technically, traditionally if we looked at, sort of like what Commissioner Akamu was talking about in the sense of traditionally land, tenure, and land divisions, based on our waterways. Hilo's always kind of been split. And so, I think we were going to be okay with that, even with the increase. People are moving to Hilo but they're not necessarily moving to live in Hilo. They're actually moving to Hilo to work and have businesses but living in Puna. So, that draws their voting for their district, councils, to a different district than they work in. And so, splitting Hilo might be 31 in favor of some of the older traditional families that still live in the Hilo district. And they've always sort of been split between Pi`ihonua and Waiakea. So, that might be a way to help solve some of this. If we shift into District 2, that might not be too bad of a shift for us in the homesteads. I yield. YOSHINA: So, let me see if I understand Council District 3's comment. If we move parts of the Waiakea Homesteads area into Council 3, what does that resolve? And if you move the northern boundary of Council 2 northward to include Wainaku, does that push our deviation beyond five or whatever? Those are the questions I would have. I yield. (No response.) Maybe we should chance `em eh and see what happens. BATH: Chair? This is Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah, you know, what's happening today in this meeting to me is really significant. And it's kind of bittersweet because what's manifesting at this meeting is actually what's been happening to the Puna district for decades. We speak, we ask, we communicate, we plead, and we get stepped on because of the voices of the other districts. I want to emphasize that Puna has a lot of poverty. Puna does not have internet connectivity like District 2, or District 3, or District 7, or District 8 might have. And so, people don't even know what is going on at a county level because they can't access it. If they even had the time or the resources. And so, I'm sitting back here, and I'm having a very similar experience that I have as I've represented Puna for decades. And I just want to go on the record to say that I am sitting back and just watching you folks do exactly, well not exactly, but very, very, close patterns that are affecting Puna. And I will not represent my district. I will not allow this to happen again. I will not allow for this to happen again. And the people of Puna will not. Someone just spoke about how the people that work in Hilo actually live in Puna. But all of the focus is on let's keep Hilo, Hilo. Well, Hilo cannot be Hilo, the traditional Hilo, anymore. I worked. I had an office in Hilo for years, for decades. Things are changing. We need to change. We cannot step and ignore Puna any longer. Everybody on this island is going to have to make adjustments. Now, we're willing to make adjustments, but should we be forced to sacrifice upper Puna and the representation of upper Puna? I mean, okay, go ahead and take some of Kea`au. But not upper Puna. I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow, this is Dwayne again. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I appreciate the comments made but, I don't think we should start the road of saying us and them. This is the island of Hawai`i. And we ought to look at the issue and the problem, and how can we resolve it. My druthers would be, hey you know if you want to juggle these population numbers, I'm for that. But, you also have to understand the history and traditions that are in the districts. And so, I don't think this is an us/them question. How can I adjust the Hilo populations to arrive at a resolution for District 4 and 32 5? I'm willing to do that but, you know, I don't think it's an us/them kind of situation. I mean, Waimea got cut in half. And Kailua has been cut in half. So, I think we should move forward with a more positive point of view here and talk about, okay, where do the adjustments go? I would hope that we can move on and get this done. Thank you. I yield. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah. Dwayne, when we were looking at the other map, and the adjustments were being made to Hilo, I had concern for you because the changes were so great, and it was so radical. And there are traditions, and there are changes, and there are old families and communities that are within your district, and I felt for you. However, to sacrifice whole communities for a few families, I think there needs to be an adjustment. I'm willing. I'm more than willing to adjust the Kea`au area, where people connect to upper Puna. But, to take Volcano and the top perimeter of Puna would be like taking Bayfront away from Hilo. How would you feel about that? I yield. YOSHINA: But, Stephanie, that's what you did on map number two. So, what did you just say? I don't see an argument there. We both agree that we need to do something to resolve this issue. Now, we talk about the Puna district, and upper Puna, and lower Puna. Well, that used to be all of Pahoa before. And you know, entrepreneurs came in and they divided up that area into subdivisions. I'm willing to say, okay, we need to service that area. How do we do it? Do you do it at the expense of, basically, destroying Hilo? I hope not. I hope we can sit down and say, okay, why don't we give up this portion? But I take issue when you come in and you take, and you destroy the traditional, historic town of Hilo. Just because you need to take care of the numbers. What I hope we can do, is to sit down and say, okay, what can I give up that makes it reasonable that still keeps the integrity of the town, and go forward? As I see it, the map number two just emasculated Hilo, and I cannot agree with that. As you cannot agree with, I guess, what we're trying to do now. But all I'm saying is, we can incrementally make these adjustments, and come out with a pretty good map. I find this map number one to be a pretty good starting point. Although, I have a concern about splitting Waimea. Because historically, and traditionally, Waimea has been one. So, instead of us having this repartee here, I think we should sit down and look at what portion or what census blocks we can move so that we meet these strictures that we have to deal with. And I hope we can do that. I'm sure we can do that. I yield. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I love Hilo. When I come over the Saddle, and when I look at the lights of Hilo, I always say to my husband, I love Hilo. No line, no redistricting line for me, is going to change the spirit of Hilo as long as the people keep it in their hearts. So, Hilo, for me, will never change by a line. I don't know about representation. When I look at Hilo, 33 District 2 and District 3, they get representation. And if a line shifts either way, they'll still have a voice because they're Hilo. Because they're Hilo. Puna on the other hand, specifically upper Puna, is not being represented because they're being—What was the word?—disenfranchised. They're being disenfranchised. They're not getting represented and that's why we're here. If we're talking about tradition, listen to the District 6 Commissioner, when he clearly stated where the lines were. Where the traditions, the cultural traditions, the core traditions have been. Shall we have that dialogue? Yes, let's do it. I'm more than happy to give some of Kea`au to District 3, District 2, whatever it takes. But upper Puna needs to be brought together again in unity. Their voice needs to be heard. I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Yeah. I mean, I think we're all trying to do the right thing. The great thing about our county is that, we don't have like the big republican versus democrat split that they have in other parts of the country. We're really all trying to do the right thing here for the entire island, so let me just say that. I think, can we just move to—Rather than this dialogue, can we move to specific suggestions in terms of moving the census blocks so that we can get this done? Maybe by starting with moving Kea`au as Stephanie has suggested, and then working from there. Again, by the end of today, what we will have is not something that we all love. But something to put out to the community to get more input so that we can finalize this in December. Thank you. HUSTACE: And Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: To add that we also need to fall within that total deviation as well. Thanks. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Yeah. I would like to have the census blocks in Volcano up to the Park, as in the previous map, added to the District 5. And then I would like to proceed with taking what we need off of the Kea`au area and putting it where it needs to be. I also just wanted to get a consensus from the commissioners. Is everybody in agreement that the change in District 4, bringing Kalapana, that was District 5 down there, back into District 4? And bringing Pahoa town back together? Because I think we've all agreed that that was needing to be done, and I don't want to have to revisit that. `Cause that was the first step of working on District 5. Is everybody in agreement that we're done with that part of it? (Pause.) Okay, I got a thumbs up here from District 4. Okay, so good. So, we don't have to revisit that because that adjusts the numbers in District 5. KOSSOW: I think everybody was good with that, that bottom portion there. 34 BATH: Okay. So, if we can add that Volcano Village and that area up to the Park to District 5, then we can start having the discussion about what we can change. YOSHINA: So, Ms. Bath, did you suggest that we move Kea`au into District 3? BATH: No. I'm saying there are possibilities. But the first step of the discussion is to get Volcano in that area, into District 5. Then we can move around whatever we need north, in the northern part of the district. YOSHINA: I yield. BATH: There are also those two little subdivisions to the left of Highway 11. Mauna Loa Estates and the Oshiro Road communities that were included in that as well. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes. Are we going back and redoing the optimum District 5 path that we started with at let's say 9:45 this morning? BATH: No. That's a negative. LOPEZ: Okay. `Cause I'm seeing the deviations just swing wild again. Thank you. If we're not doing that, I guess this is a new idea. Thank you. BATH: There's that one little subdivision off of Oshiro Road. Go north. To the left. I'm sorry, to the right. Okay, it looks like it's been included. That was the one thing I wanted to make a correction on. The reason the numbers are skyrocketing is because the nature of the map that was created that didn't represent District 5, and we can adjust that. I yield. KOSSOW: Calling recess for fifteen minutes. (Fifteen-minute recess.) KOSSOW: Calling the meeting back into order. We had just some housekeeping here. We just got off of a fifteen-minute recess. And then after 1:30, there is another meeting scheduled at the Hilo Council Chambers. So, we'll recess for an hour and then we'll come back and reconvene at 2:30 after that, if nothing is met before the 1:30. Other than that, Ms. Lui, I believe you had the floor. Or you had your hand raised. Oh, I'm sorry. Before we go to Ms. Lui, Mr. Kauka, did you have something? KAUKA: Yes, excuse me. Thanks. This is Dennis. Just for the sake of the folks who need to move into the Chamber here on the Hilo side, for their meeting which starts at 1:30, we should probably vacate our location by, I would say, 1:10. And then yes, it is confirmed that we can return here by 2:30. At 2:30, excuse me. 35 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. 1:10, okay. Would you be able toff I don't see the clock, would you be able to stop us? KAUKA: Yes, absolutely. KOSSOW: Okay. Now going back to the discussion, Ms. Lui, you had your hand raised prior before shutting off. Did you want to say anything? You're good? LUL No. I think it was left over. Sorry. KOSSOW: Oh, no worries. Thank you very much. Mr. Hustace is going to bring up the map. BATH: Chair, this is Commissioner Bath. I just need to take a moment to—I had an appointment at 1:30, so I need to change that. So, I'm going to be texting here. KOSSOW: No worries. Thank you, Ms. Bath. LUL Commissioner Kossow, I wondered if I could request that you put the district field numbers right on the map. And then that would give us more room to look at a larger map, but we'll still see the numbers as they change. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace? Is that like the number underneath the council districts? Is that what LUL No. I mean, you know, when they come up right, it'll say like Council 2 and then it will give the number right under that. I think KOSSOW: Yeah, that's what we're referring to, yeah. Do you remember how to do that? LUL On the view screen, there's a district field tab, but I don't know—Right, there, show district field. Display locks. Display names. And then, yeah that one. KOSSOW: Ah. Ms. Lui, we need to get some training from you. LUL Oh, hardly. (Laughs.) And then you can get rid of the thing below so that we can see more of the map. Thank you. BATH: Chair Bath, I'm back. Or Commissioner Bath, I'm back. HUSTACE: So, on the current map we have here,just for sake of clarity, we have four districts that need to be adjusted. Just because it exceeds the total deviation that we're allowed. So, in this instance, Council 6 is almost eight percent under. Whereas 2, 4, and 5, are over. So, we need to kind of make those shifts there to balance it out, to get under that ten. The total is under ten, right? Is that right, Chair? (Chair Kossow responds away from the microphone.) Oh, for each district? Maybe that's—(indiscernible, Chair and 36 Vice Chair talk over each other.) the integrity, I'm not sure. Let's see. So, it's doing an overall check. I don't have to use this as a guide necessarily, but I just like to use that tool sometimes. Alright. So, let's see if we can make some adjustments to 6 here. To get it out of that high range. Whereas, let's see, it was 2, 4, and 5—let me look at the east side of the island. So, this is kind of the boundary we'd agreed upon with the Honoli`i Stream there. So, we're kind of at that there. Two (2), 4, and 5 okay BATH: We didn't agree. You agreed. HUSTACE: Let's see here. Two (2), 4, and 5. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just wanted to say that Stephanie, Honoli`i is my preferred boundary, southern boundary, as the District 1 Representative. But I am open to moving it downward again, back to where it was at Wainaku. Hopefully not all the way to Waianuenue. Thank you. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: So, the issue here is that upper Puna, or District 5, more of District 5 has been taken and we've been—You're having a conversation based on—with the assumption that Ka`u is moving deeper into upper Puna, which is going to take away our voice. And I'm here, but my voice is not being heard about this, the emphasis about this. You guys are saying this is the map that we agreed to. I did not agree to this map. If this happened at the meeting after I left, I mean, I looked at this map and I couldn't even work it. So, I mean, is this set-in stone? Because I don't even have to be at this meeting right now if this is what we're working with for District 5. If we're not going to have any adjustments made here, I'll just excuse myself from the meeting today. Because I can't represent my district. So, I'm just wondering about this. What happened above Mountain View here? I'm trying to get some clarity on the conversation. Should I bother staying here? It's a serious question. Because you're KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. Oh, I'm sorry, Ms. Bath, do you yield? BATH: Yes, I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: As my perspective, and also my recollection, it was me who asked the Commission to set this map aside. It appeared that from across the forum here, that this was a good map. That you had brought up some very strong concerns about your district. And it was me that asked the Commission to set this aside and allow you time to draw a map that worked more towards your needs while addressing the entire problem we're trying to solve. So, let me say that, to my recollection, this Commission did not agree that 37 this was the map. It was the best map that we brought to discussion, and it had some strong reservations by yourself, so I asked them to put it aside and give you time, for this meeting, to come back with a solution. So, the elephant in the room now, is that you did. You came back, using the wrong map, but that's okay. You came back and you gave us what District 5 wants, you want for District 5. But no regard for the impact to the rest of the island. It was just, this is what I want, and then you yielded, and left it to us to try to solve the problem that your map, for District 5, created. So, that's where we are, and I wanted to clarify both how we got here. How we gave you time to come back with this map. And now we're left with figuring out the impacts as a group. I just think that's a little unconscionable. `Cause we could have all submitted a map. This is my district. This is what I want. And you guys work out the fallout. And that's what happened here. I wouldn't take a real objection to that kind of a—It's not teamwork. It's not compromise. It's not a working together as a group across the island. So, I'm stymied as to how we move forward without someone taking the bull by the horns and just saying, let's work on what we as the majority, if that's not what we have to do, feel is the best map we can put forth. And then, if District 5 objects to that, that's perfectly fine. Then bring that voice to the public hearing and fill our ears. Let us have it. But we got to get off this point here. We're stuck in the mud over this one issue. I yield. Thank you. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I'd like to respond to that without being too redundant. Upper Puna has a lot of poverty. Even the people that don't have poverty, don't have internet connection. They don't get information. They have a hard time even getting a level of service where they can participate. And so, what people do is, they disengage because it's too difficult. And you're asking me to have this population of people come to the public hearings and speak. When they don't even have the gas money to get there. Or they don't even have the internet information to find out what they're speaking on. Help me to understand. Is that what you're saying? I yield. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? This is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I concur with the comments made by Mr. Lopez. I thought we—You know, we could have adopted a map at our last meeting, but because Ms. Bath lost her contact with us, we decided to provide her the opportunity to draw a map and come back and discuss it with us. And then, come to some agreement as to what we were going to do. So, I think that's where we're at right now. I yield. BATH: Chair, I'm looking at the numbers is what I'm doing. As a redistricting commissioner, I'm looking at the numbers for my community KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. (Pause.) Go ahead, Ms. Bath. I was recognizing you. 38 BATH: I was talking with Elections during the break, and I think we're forgetting what we need to do. And it's looking at the numbers. That's all I have to say. I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thanks, Chair. I know Ms. Mellon-Lacey also has her hand up too. She's on the floor there. I'll stop sharing. The only thing I wanted to say is, when we do have testimony at our upcoming meetings, and when we do hear about the needs of particular districts, we can adjust as best as we can, as close as possible, but given the software and understanding the ripple effect of the movement of census blocks, you can identify a district and try your best to create that compactness for that district but, it's going to have an effect on all the other ones. So, we can't just look at one district and say, this is what we have. Because you have to take into account all the districts that it neighbors. It's going to impact all the other ones. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Ms. Mellon-Lacey, and then we'll go to Ms. Lui. MELLON-LACEY: Yes. Thank you, Chair. I just want to remind the Commission, and yourself Chair that, this meeting was recessed and the sole thing that was left on for discussion was that of the draft plans. I feel like we're getting a little bit off track of considering the draft plans. So, I just want to remind all of you that that was the reason that we recessed the meeting. And also, the Commission may wish to consider making a motion regarding which plans or plan they want to work from, and how they want to proceed so that there is some definitive action that would enable a forward movement. Because we're having a lot of discussion, but it's not around any particular motion. Therefore, there's no real movement to reach any conclusion. Thank you, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. Ms. Lui. LUL I was going to make a motion, but I would yield to Commissioner Yoshina. If he wanted to move as to which one, which of the two, that we consider our working draft. And then, I would move that we just spend the rest of our time working on that one as best we can as the one that we're going to put forward to the public. Without further discussion of sort of the merits, but just moving things around. Mr. Yoshina, I think you had said that one of the maps was unacceptable to you. So, I just wondered which one of them. YOSHINA: Yeah. I find the map one, version 1-1, to be the better map. But, having heard the comments made by Ms. Bath this morning, I'd like to see if we could include all of her suggestions. You know, the incremental parts of it that we can adjust that version 1-1 and move on from that. LUL So, are you going to make a motion that we YOSHINA: I move that we adopt, the Commission adopt, draft 1-1 as it's working draft. 39 KOSSOW: I just want to interject really quickly. Mr. Yoshina, did you want to adopt this? Or do you want to make it the draft that we're going to work on? No other drafts. YOSHINA: I'd like for this to be our working draft. KOSSOW: Thank you. Okay. So, the motion's on the table by Mr. Yoshina to make 1-1 the main working document. Is there a second? LOPEZ: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Lopez. Is there any discussion? (No response.) Without hearing any, Mr. Kauka,please call the roll. Mr. Yoshina moved to make 1-1 the main working document for the 2021 Hawaii County Redistricting Commission. Seconded by Mr. Lopez. The motion to make 1-1 the main working document for the 2021 Hawaii County Redistricting Commission was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Lopez, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: Commissioner Bath. KAUKA: Chair, thank you. You have eight ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Motion carries. We're going to work on 1-1. Mr. Hustace, if you can pull that up. Thank you. YOSHINA: So, Chair Kossow? Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Yeah. I would like to see what the map would look like with all of the comments that were made by Ms. Bath this morning. I don't know how KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, you know, we did work on the map earlier today. Let me see if, instead of going through the entire map, let me show you the example that Mr. Hustace, or that we worked on, to allow that. So, he's going to open up that map right now. YOSHINA: Okay. Thank you. 40 HUSTACE: And Chair,just to be clear, we weren't able to complete that, the whole process of balancing out. But it incorporates Commissioner Bath's input and building it from that area. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you. HUSTACE: So, Chair, I just projected it up there. As you can see, it's incomplete but this shows we still have, kind of, some things to do on the north side. But this shows what that would look like. I can zoom in. Just let me know where you'd like me to look in particular, Commissioners. YOSHINA: I think that's good for me. If we could have the numbers that accompany that. HUSTACE: Okay, so I'll read the numbers off as they are on the table below. And as I mentioned, this map isit took into consideration the requests for Council 5. And as you'll hear the numbers, you'll know that we didn't reach a final tally here. And that it just shows an imbalance across the board. So, Council 1 is twelve percent over. Council 2 is eighteen percent over. Council 3 is five below. Council 4 is nine over. Council 5 is less than 1 over. Council 6 is three over. Council 7 is four under. Council 8 is six under. And Council 9 is twenty-one under. Thank you. YOSHINA: Mr. Hustace, this is Dwayne. Could you give me Council 3, 6, and 9 again, please? HUSTACE: So, Council 3, the total population is 20,993, which is five percent under the target goal. Council 6, you said? YOSHINA: Yes. HUSTACE: Six (6), is that correct? YOSHINA: Yes, 6. HUSTACE: Okay. Six (6) is 21,418, which is about 3.6 percent under. And then the last district, Commissioner, was? YOSHINA: Nine (9). HUSTACE: Nine (9). Nine (9) is 17,418, which puts it at 21.65 percent under target goal. YOSHINA: Thank you. BATH: Chair? Commissioner Bath. Can we please have the population numbers that go with those percentages? I yield. 41 HUSTACE: Can you see them up on the screen there? They are projected with the council districts. So, this is just the BATH: They're really small. HUSTACE: Okay. Council 1, once again for the changes it made for Council 5, Council 1, the deviation is 12.68 percent over. Which is 2,820 for a district population of 25,052. Council 2 is 18.29 percent over, with 4,067 individuals, for a total of 26,299. Council 3 is 5.57 percent under target, short of 1,239 individuals. For a population of 20,993. Council 4 is 9.83 percent over. That's 2,185 individuals, for a total population of 24,417. Council 5 is 0.66 over, with 146 individuals, for a total population of 22,378. Council 6 is 3.66 under target, for a loss of 814 individuals, totaling 21,418. Council 7 is 4.37 under target, for 971 individuals short, for a total of 21,261. Council 8 is 6.2 percent under target, for a loss of 1,378, for a total of 20,854. And Council 9 is 21.65 under target. That would be 4,814 individuals below target, for a total of 17,418. And as discussed, this wasn't complete. This map wasn't completed to make those adjustments. KOSSOW: Let me remind, Commissioners, that because Mr. Yoshina did make a motion to work on 1-1, we would have to revert back to that one in order to make this type of changes again. So, this is just an example of what we're looking at here. HUSTACE: So, Chair, I brought Working Doc 1-1 back up on the screen. And I can read numbers or zoom into areas we need to make some adjustments here to hit certain deviations that we're required to hit. So, for example on 1-1, I need to adjust Council 6. They are short about 1,768 individuals. Just around eight percent under target. And there are a couple districts that are a little bit over that we need to adjust for as well. Thank you. (No response.) Maybe I'll propose something, Chair, if that's okay? KOSSOW: Go ahead. HUSTACE: That we look at Council 6 and try and get it to a closer value. So, if we start with that one and try and adjust accordingly. Since that's the district that has the least amount of individuals in it right now. So, I'm welcome to suggestions here for, either Council 6 on the Kona side, on the west side, or on the east side. LOPEZ: This is Lopez. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Looking at the deviations, the only place you have positive deviation that you could draw from, again positive, is Districts 3, 4, and 5, that are adjacent. HUSTACE: That's correct, Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: So, that's where I would try to get some numbers first. 42 HUSTACE: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. BATH: Chair Bath—or Commissioner Bath. Don't even think about it. Don't even think about it. What you're doing. This is so not okay. This is so not okay for District 6. You have stripped us of our voice. This willI will not allow this to happen on my watch. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioner Bath. Is there any other suggestions regarding getting Council District 6 some numbers? Also too, if we can get it into a negative 5.99, so I think that's about 2,000 people. LUL I wonder what Commissioner Akamu has to say, given it's his district. AKAMU: Yeah, Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: It's definitely a difficult situation. And so, I feel the concerns from all of the commissioners, and literally we're stuck in the middle. When you look at the communities of Pahala, N5'51ehu, Wai`6hinu, Discovery Harbour, Green Sands, South Point, all the way to Ocean View, we're only like about 9,000 people. So, we're still under fifty percent of what's going to be represented. So, we are a small population down in the south. And it's going to have to give somewhere. So, for me, I come with the spirit of compromise. I like the idea that we were going to propose two drafts. And I thought on one draft we could favor putting the Volcano Village and Fern Forest communities with Puna. And one, we can look at pushing Ka`u further into Council District 7, further into Captain Cook, etcetera. I'm not sure if we still want to look at proposing two drafts for the public to comment on. If we do have to stick with one, I think we're just going to need the time to go block by block adjust. We already went down this road with version 1.2. And we started going around the whole island, and I thought that was a really great conversation but then we sort of got stuck. And so, I'm not sure if opening that up again, and making Volcano Village, Fern Forest green, and then just seeing, and going all the way around the island again. I'm not sure if that's the most efficient use of our time. But I am open to compromise. And whatever the draft is going to be, I see it as the draft that we will put forward for the public's opinion. We'll listen to all of the concerns from everyone in our district. `Cause we're not going to make everyone happy. And then we'll come back, and we have to compromise. It's going to be difficult, but I think that's the only way I can see us moving forward and getting to a good place. I do appreciate everybody passionately advocating for their district. But in the end, I do hope that compromise will lead us and guide us to sort of the best decision to make. So, that's sort of where I am with this. I do agree though, with Commissioner Lopez, that the Council Districts 4, and 5, and that area, is where we've had large population growth. I also do think about possibility utilizing the deviation to try to favor some areas, if possible. To try to create that equity that's needed by utilizing the deviation. Knowing that the Ka`u population may not grow as quickly if we overpopulate Ka`u. Of course, we're just struggling getting more people in the Ka`u district. So, I'm open to it all. I'm open to also 43 revisiting splitting Ka`u right down the middle again. It's something that I know the communities in the south is not going to be very happy with. But, you know, it's for us to put it out there and for me to do my best at working with the people in these communities to try to get information as best as possible out to them. So, that's where I'm at. I'm okay with changing some of the Fern Forest areas and adding that to Council District 5. It's going to totally throw off District 6, but I'd entertain going down the route again. Thank you. I yield. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I propose putting—keeping Volcano Village in Ka`u. This morning when I was fulfilling my assignment from the Commission of defining what District 5 was, that's what you asked me to do, I did it. I proposed what District 5 wanted. I wasn't shoving it down the Commission's throat by any means. I was fulfilling the assignment given to me by the Commission. Now that I have to work with this map, I'm saying that, go ahead and Volcano Village can go into Ka`u. I can live with that. That's a compromise. The area above Fern Forest, it's a compromise. That can go ahead and go into Ka`u. What I'm not okay with is, moving further down into Puna and giving all of that to Ka`u. I understand that District 7 will need to yield as well. Just because the domino effect ended in Puna, doesn't mean that that has to be. But for now, go ahead and put Volcano Village and those subdivisions that are above Fern Forest into Ka`u. I accept that. That is a compromise. In doing that, I would, if you move over to the ocean, I would say, take that block that's 34 people and give it to District 3. Take the Shipman area and give it to District 3. Now, in doing this, District 3 and District 2 will have to yield something. I yield. LUL James, I just wondered if you wanted to do at least, put the Volcano into 6, and so we can see what it looks like. HUSTACE: It's currently in 6 right now. LUL Oh, I thought she was moving it. Sorry. AKAMU: Chair, this is Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: Commissioner Hustace, first of all, thank you so much for being the one who works this program. It's really helpful to have someone who can just click and change it easily. If we could possibly try and go back to the current district line, which is Kahauale`a Road, and that would put the Fern Forest area back into Council District 5. Yes, right there. Because then to the left of that, the Volcano Village area would still be in District 6. We'll try that and then see where the numbers lie. Thank you. I yield. 44 KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, I thought I heard your voice. Did you want to discuss? YOSHINA: Yeah. Since we're 4.67 or eighteen percent over, I would guess that if we moved the southern boundary for District 2 into District 3, I don't know which census blocks that would include, and try to even that out tooh, I don't know. Because District 3 is now at 20,983, so HUSTACE: Commissioner Yoshina, those were from the adjustments we made in our previous conversation. So, the numbers are a little bit different here, for Working Doc 1- l. YOSHINA: I see. HUSTACE: So, for the changes made here to move these subdivisions of upper Puna out to right around their current boundary line—There are some issues with one of the census blocks there, but right over where they are right nowIn its current iteration, this puts Council 5 at fifteen percent over, which is 3,386 individuals, for a total of 25,618. And has bumped Council District 4 [sic] quite a bit further down to twenty percent below, 20.75 below. For four thousand—(Commissioner Lui says "six" into the microphone to correct Vice Chair's statement as he was reading the numbers for District 6, not District 4.) six hundred and fourteen with a total of 17,618. Thank you. BATH: Commissioner Bath. I would like to KOSSOW: Hold on one second. Mr. Yoshina, did you yield? LUL I had my hand up too. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, and then Ms. Bath. LUL In terms of Council 1 and 2, if we shifted the line back up to Honoli`i, that might even out 1 and 2 a little bit more. But I know that's not our biggest concern right now. HUSTACE: So, the line is there, at Honoli`i, Ms. Lui. LUL Oh, it is. I'm sorry. Okay. I thought it was Wainaku. HUSTACE: Yeah. So, I'm working off of Doc 1-1, which was the motion. And that one had Council 1 and 2's southern boundary for Council 1 at Honoli`i. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Did you yield? LUL I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Bath. 45 BATH: If you go to the boundary between 4 and 5, Highway 130, if you take `Ainaloa Subdivision, and give that to District 40h, wait a minute. Were they above or below? KOSSOW: They were above. BATH: Oh, they were above. Nevermind. I'm sorry, I thought you said below. Disregard. I yield. LUL I think we're all getting cross-eyed. YOSHINA: So, Mr. Hustace? HUSTACE: Yes, Mr. Yoshina? YOSHINA: My understanding is that District 2, Council District 2, is at 26,299. HUSTACE: No, that's—Let me read the numbers off here for you. For Working Doc 1, with the recently made changes to keep Council 5 at its most western boundary, its current western boundary, to push it there. So, that's with the recent request and change. Council 1 is 76 individuals under, which is 0.34 under, which is 22,156, for a total of Council 1. YOSHINA: How much is that? Twenty-three? HUSTACE: 22,156. That's the total for Council 1. Council 2 is 4.24 percent over. Which is 942 individuals, for a total of 23,174. Council 3 is 1.32 percent over, 293 individuals, for a total of 22,525. Council 4 is 3.83 percent over, for a total of 852. And Council 4's total is 23,084. Now with the changes, Council 5 is 15.23 percent over. That's 3,386 individuals, for a total population of 25,618. And those changes also affected Council 6. Putting Council 6, 20.75 under, for 4,614 people, which is 17,618. Council 7 is 2.12 percent under. That's 472 individuals short, for a total of 21,760. Council 8 is 0.81, so less than one, 0.81 percent under, for 174 short. That's 22,053. Council 9 is short by 0.58 percent, 0.58. That's 130 individuals, for a total of 22,102. So, those are the current values for the map with the requested changes just now. Thank you. YOSHINA: Thank you. KOSSOW: I would like to remind everybody that, in five minutes we'll be going on for an hour break. We'll reconvene at 2:30 p.m. So, we can continue the discussion for now, and then we'll reconvene at 2:30. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I would like to make some other adjustments/suggestions, please? 46 KOSSOW: Okay. BATH: Take everything that is—Give Kea`au town to District 3. Give everything that is between the Kea`au Ag Lots and Kea`au to District 3. So basically, what I'm suggesting is giving Kea`au town and everything adjacent to that, including the census blocks that are south east of the Kea`au Ag Lots. One has 36 people in it. One has six in it. All of that to HPP, give to District 3. Okay, so you're including the Ag Lots. Okay, go ahead and include the Ag Lots. That's fine. KOSSOW: Which one is the Ag Lots? BATH: No, no, no, that's fine. `Cause I think that'll balance the numbers a little bit better. KOSSOW: Okay. BATH: So, I can't see what the numbers are for District 5 right now. HUSTACE: With those changes around Kea`au town, Council 5 is at 5.78 percent over. That's 1,286 individuals, for a total of 23,518. LUL What's the number for District 3 then? HUSTACE: District 3 is 10.76 percent over, 2,393 individuals, 24,625. BATH: Commissioner Bath. The reason why I made that adjustment was so that there was some room for flexibility in District 3 and District 2 for movement. I yield. KOSSOW: Before we conclude for recess, can you read off the number for Council 6? HUSTACE: Alright, Chair. Council 6 numbers are 20.75 percent under. That's 4,614 individuals. And the population is 17,618. Thank you. KOSSOW: That's something that we have to figure out is, getting Council District 3's and a little bit of—Five (5) is good at 5.78. And Council District 2 is at 942. So, somehow, we have to get those two population numbers into Council District 6. And I think we will talk more about that after our recess here. And we'll reconvene at 2:30. So, I call for a recess. KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis in Hilo. Before we recess, if I could just announce to the Commissioners who are participating virtually,please check your email before you come back at 2:30. We may need to send you new access information to connect. The same Zoom account is going to be used for the next meeting coming in. If you don't see an email from me, use the same. If there's an updated one, please use that one. Thank you, Chair. 47 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Recess till 2:30. Thank you. (Recess.) KOSSOW: Alight, calling the meeting back to order. I hope everybody had a good lunch. Mr. Kauka, if you can go ahead and please call the roll. KAUKA: Commissioner Lui, "Present," Commissioner Yoshina, (No response), Commissioner Ah Nee, "Present via Zoom," Commissioner Yadao, "Present, Hilo," Commissioner Bath, (No response), Commissioner Akamu, (No response), Commissioner Lopez, "Present, Kona," Commissioner Hustace, "Present, Kona", Chair Kossow, "Here, Kona." Chair, now that we've reconvened, we have six members back and present. I can advise you as Commissioners come back to the room. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Mr. Hustace, if you can post 1.4? HUSTACE: Yeah. Thanks, Chair. So, I renamed it to 1-4 after we made some edits here. So, I'll share that up here now. So, this includes the edits that we made before recess. Once again, we need to fall within the deviation we're allotted. And then, we have till today to turn this in. So, that's our goal here. Thanks, Chair. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. I'm going to open it up for discussion. I believe the last time we were talking, we were down in Council 5 and Council 6, but I would like to reopen that conversation back up to our commissioners. Thank you. HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: So, looking at our current place here, with our numbers, what we really have to tackle here is, we've given something back to Council 3, okay. So, the numbers show that Council 2, Council 3, Council 4, 5, are in the positive. And we can kind of make some adjustments there. The one district that we do have to give to,primarily, is Council 6. So, being that Council 7 and Council 5 are adjacent, in a sense of connectivity, those are our two targets we have to pull from. Thanks. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. And then, can you refresh us? What is the deviation number for Council 6? HUSTACE: Council 6 is 20.75 percent under the target. So, that's 4,614 individuals. So, currently, that population's only 17,618. And once again, our target goal is 22,232. So, we need to try and get as close to that as possible. KOSSOW: That's a pretty large number. Even if we decided to take five hundred out of Council 7 to make that 5.99 percent,just spinning off of my top of my head here, we 48 would still need to make an agreement with pushing in Council District 5. Unless we move Council District 3's 2,393 people and work around the island in order for us to get into Council 7. HUSTACE: We've moved some of that population away from where it needs to be, unfortunately. So, we've given some back to Council 3. There's some we can take from Council 2, but we're going to have to keep moving that down south. So, let's see. Council 2 is still in the positive, the 940. So, they're pretty, you know, we got it pretty high there. So, we're going to have to take from there to give to 3. Three's (3's) got to give, you know, and has to trickle down to 6. Everything has to move to our southern district here. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Chair, you had asked earlier, and I just did the math—You wondered, what would it take to get District 6 to like 5.99? And, what I figured out here is, we would need 1,338 to get it to negative 5.99. So, if my math is right, we've got plenty in 3, and 5. So, we could—I guess we could skim, if you will, from those three: 3, 4, 5, into 6 and you might hit it. Again, trying to hit like about thirteen hundred, thirteen fifty. I hope that helps. Just trying to throw something in there. KOSSOW: No, I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Lopez. I think, if that's the case, then we'll try to get—So, the deviation of negative 5.99 in Council District 7,just to see how that looks. I would like to—I know right here, it ends at 1-16kukano. So, if we can use the mauka side and not effect anything on the makai portions. HUSTACE: On the western side, Chair? KOSSOW: Yes. HUSTACE: Okay. So, guide me through here if you don't mind. KOSSOW: Go ahead and scroll into there. Into where the Council 7 is, right there. So, the original—If you want to just do the original, the line, I think right there, will bring it to at least negative 5.99 deviation, I think. HUSTACE: We just have to be careful about 7 though, right? Because we're KOSSOW: Right, right. That's what I was talking about. It was bringing 7 into a negative 5.99. HUSTACE: Oh, I see. KOSSOW: So, actually, can you go back real quick? So, you see that 175, the 34, in between there. Go ahead and put that into 6. And then, you can do the far left that's 1-16kuli`a. And it attaches to Kealakekua Bay. And then, right to the left of it. Scroll a little bit more. 49 HUSTACE: This is the current boundary. So, if you want to keep it there, that's a possibility. KOSSOW: Yeah, let's keep that there. What are we at now? HUSTACE: So, right now, Council 7 is 3.35 under. KOSSOW: Under. Okay. If you scroll in, a little bit more to the Haleki`i Street area going north. Yeah, right there. You see where the old line is? I think there's some people there. HUSTACE: Yeah. So, thirty-five there. KOSSOW: That brings us to 3.51. Okay. Go to Captain Cook. And scroll in over here. HUSTACE: North? KOSSOW: No. South, yeah. HUSTACE: South, okay. KOSSOW: This is the whole subdivision topic. Can you scroll into that road name there? HUSTACE: I can try and read those names if you need to. KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Kiloa Road. Kinue Road. KOSSOW: Let's do that eighty-two and then the forty. `Cause that's all. HUSTACE: Of mauka? KOSSOW: Yeah, mauka. HUSTACE: Okay. This next one over here is 142. So, right now, Council 7 is at 4.06 under. KOSSOW: 4.06. Okay, so we can do another. You know what, I think I'm good with this currently. I wouldn't want to move anything else. HUSTACE: You want to leave it there for now? KOSSOW: Leave it there for now. That way it doesn't affect Council District 8. `Cause I think Council District 8 should be a lot then. 50 HUSTACE: So, you're comfortable with leaving 7 kind of at that deficit for now? KOSSOW: Yeah. HUSTACE: Okay. And where did you want to target next? KOSSOW: So, since we reduced it down here, we can try to work on the other side for Council 5 and 6. `Cause there's a twelve hundred in Council 5. HUSTACE: Yeah, and unfortunately, we're going to have to creep into Council 5. I understand that concern, but we're going to have to push into there. Just the way this is laid out. KOSSOW: Yeah. KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis. Just for the record, Commissioners Bath and Yoshina are now with us. KOSSOW: Thank you. HUSTACE: Alright. So, we've taken some from the west side to help out a little bit. Should we target some of this, try and capture some here, in Council 5 then? Help out Council 6. Alright. Let's see what that looks like. So, for example, I think one of the iterations we had was this more mauka portion here. Let's see where this takes us. So, if we take that portion there, that puts us, Council 6 is still twelve under. Council 3 we need to kind of shift over too because they're well over. KOSSOW: If we movedInstead of moving into 5, is there a way that we can move up to the northern portion without— HUSTACE: ithoutHUSTACE: Along the Belt? Yeah, that's a possibility. I think we had some maps that looked like that. Where 3 connected to 6 six, right? So, that they could—like that sort of way KOSSOW: I was thinking ofI didn't want to takeI know Ms. Lui talked a little bit about Honoli`i. And then, Mr. Yoshina talked a little bit about using Wainaku as the boundary. But I was just curious of how much of a deviation is that? And if it's worth pursuing. And then, working your way around through the northern portion, and then coming back down to Kona into Council District 6. HUSTACE: So, try and go around the island again, then? KOSSOW: Yeah, but I'm a little worried that we'll be doing the same thing over and over again. 51 HUSTACE: Yeah. LOPEZ: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: We're at the area of, and again, I don't want to step on anybody's toes, what they might have said, but I'm just looking at the map. This Upper Waik6loa[sic] Forest Reserve, is that I mean, you got 885 that's on the contiguous boundary of Council 6. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. Waik6loa Forest Reserve? LOPEZ: Yeah, all that. KOSSOW: Oh, the Waiakea. HUSTACE: Waiakea. LOPEZ: Upper Waiakea Forest Reserve, yeah. Is that potential? HUSTACE: So, it's a block group. So, if I zoom another layer, it's basically targeting closer to Hilo. LOPEZ: Oh, shoot. It wraps around. HUSTACE: Yeah. So, I zoom out, it's kind of this big—It's a block group. So, it's a group of census blocks. It includes the Kulani Prison over here on the left side, but most of the population is drawing from these residences mauka of Hilo. LOPEZ: Okay. So, the 805 is not a census block unto itself? HUSTACE: No, it's not. It's all this area, but a lot of these are unpopulated. It's including some of these other areas here, closer to Hilo. YOSHINA: Chair? This is Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez, you yield? LOPEZ: Yes. I'm still looking at this. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: Down on the southeastern corner, where 3 and 2 come together, down in the corner where there's a square looking thing—Yeah, right there. Maybe you can move that line to include all of that area. There's about 541 people, I guess. I'm not sure of that 52 number but, take everything in that block and move it to Council 3—Council 5. Council 5, yeah, that block. Right. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina, you yield? YOSHINA: Yeah, I yield. Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I feel like we've revisited these several times, but I just wondered about expanding 6 into 4. I know we've talked a bit about Pahoa. And I don't know whether that would be then, too many people. But if we did that, then 4 could take out of 5. Four(4) and 5 would be, the numbers might be better. But yeah. It looks likeI'm not sure how many people. It's not a huge, huge number in that area down there. It goes up into Pahoa. Just a thought. Another way for another district to move around. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, do you yield? LUL Yeah, I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Please don't do it to District 4. Those people in that area have been through enough. They need representation. If you're going toI'm not going to use a strong word. If you're going to be doing this to Puna, then just do it to one district. Don't do it to both districts. Don't do that to Kalapana. They need to be allied with lower Puna. They need to be in District 4. I would rather see that, them stay intact, then to—Well, I think that's it better to just go ahead and do what you gotta do. But don't do that to District 4, please. LUL Okay. That's fine. HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I think there's one thing in the that if we're intent on keeping with this rendition and this iteration, PTA is in 3. And we've had conversation about that. But the connectivity's an issue here. Because of part of District 2 comes across. As you see, it blocks access. What was it, contiguity that we were talking about? KOSSOW: Yeah. I think in the prior discussion, Mr. Yoshina did express it was okay to put it into Council District 2. But it made more logical sense because Council 3 also 53 represented KMR (Keaukaha Military Reservation). But, Mr. Yoshina, did you want to? I know you previously discussed this. YOSHINA: It's okay, whichever way. But command and control is centralized in Keaukaha, I think, for P6hakuloa. But, if you want to put it in 2, that's fine too. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace, go ahead and put that into 2 for now. And then we can always adjust. HUSTACE: Okay. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusted the map projected onto the screen.) Okay, so I made that switch. PTA is in 2 now. And we've made some adjustments. So, Council 2 is under by two and a half percent. We need to kind of tackle Council 3 and try and give some of those numbers to get them across to Council 6 somehow. KAUKA: Chair, this is Dennis. Again,just for the record, Commissioner Akamu now has joined us. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Any commissioners have any idea they want to see? LUL I wish. KOSSOW: Well, I'm stuck. It's either It's moving Council District 5 over into Kea`au. And then, moving the boundary more to the right. Or it's moving everything up and around the other way. So, I don't know what the If we have any other commissioners that want to speak to this? LUL Commissioner Lui. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I'm just curious, from Council 3, maybe Commissioner Ah Nee. If you pushed District 6 farther up into District 3, it's pretty empty until you get closer to Hilo. So, by the time you get closer to Hilo, obviously, those people relate more to Hilo. However, is there a possibility that that might have to be compromised on? Or could be, you know, like if you're going up past the part that's not populated. Up to, at least Haili Street, Haihai Street, which is the border, but push up further along Haihai Street and capture some of that for District 6. I don't know if that makes any sense. `Cause right now, District 3 kind of pokes into 6. But this way, 6 would kind of like poke farther up. I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Again, I don't want to speak sacrilege here, but looking at the map—And again, I'm just looking at numbers. That whole P6hakuloa area, could that be into District 6? It would take from 3 and add to 6, and you might have a pretty even. `Cause it's like 54 1,500-1,800 people. (At this time, Commissioner Lopez guides Vice Chair Hustace as he manipulates the map) Right there, see P6hakuloa? That. Could that potentially be District 6? HUSTACE: It's over the crest of Mauna Loa, so. And since there's no population in there, or connectivity, that's only the problem. LOPEZ: Oh. Because of the summit? HUSTACE: Yeah. So, Mauna Loa summit in this area. LOPEZ: Alright. Thank you. HUSTACE: But because there's no connectivity. And there's no residents there. So, it really is a LOPEZ: Well, there's 1,800 and something there. HUSTACE: Oh, that's just—yeah, `cause I'm zoomed way out, unfortunately, here. But if I zoom in, you'll see these are all mostly zeros in here. It's grabbing from the population centers on the right side here. I see Hilo. These areI can change my zoom levels, so you don't see them. So, most of these are zero in the core of the island, unless they're an odd shaped one. Like this one that is mauka of Pu`u Wa`awa`a, basically. But all these in the core are zero. Yeah, so there wouldn't be—There's a connectivity issue too. LOPEZ: Okay. Okay. I see it goes across Saddle Road. HUSTACE: Yeah. LOPEZ: Okay. I'm just looking at 1,548 on the other side of the Saddle. Okay, thank you. HUSTACE: Sorry about that. LOPEZ: Yeah. (Laughs) Me too. LUL Meizhu, again. I wondered, could you go up into the Council 3, as I was suggesting, closer to that on the other side of the Haihai Road boundary? Right between 2 and 5, there is, right in there, there's a number of census blocks that look a little bit more rural. A little bit farther out. I don't know how many people. It looks like it'd be close to a thousand. If you took the ones, you know, farther from the densely populated areas. Yeah, those parts in there. HUSTACE: Thanks, Commissioner. I would defer to some of our Hilo commissioners as well because the connectivity up here is sparse as well. To my knowledge, these people, 55 these residents are accessing off of the Hilo roads. And they are on the Hilo side of Pana`ewa Zoo. So, there's cul-de-sacs that terminate up above Hilo here. Some of them don't connect with Stainback Road here. AH NEE: Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee. AH NEE: I think one of the bigger—going that way would be the bigger problem Would be, that County council member would have to drive into two different districts just to get to the other part of that district, if it was to end up in Ka`u. Haihai is sort of kind of the vein for Kanoelehua and Highway 19Highway 11, going up into Waiakea Uka. And then there is actually no connection to the Stainback Road. It comes out at the zoo. I think Pana`ewa Zoo, so. I think we might fall under that contigency that we are going to be driving out of one district and pass two districts to get into the same representated district,just by environmental landscape. LUL Thank you. AH NEE: You're welcome. LUL So then, that brings us back to 5. HUSTACE: So, we have to shift this population across 5. Because of the connectivity with the Belt Road. And we are going to spark the ire of community members, but we do have to present something. We just have to kind of turn in something that, that we can show, and that we can hear about and get some feedback. At the same time, we have to have a conversation that, some of these districts are going to be looking different. We have to. We have target goals that we have to match. And we can try and get as close to that deviation that we're allowed. Thanks. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: For purposes of discussion, let's assume that the Puna sleeping giant awakes, and comes out in numbers to the public hearing. And they say, this is unacceptable. Are we going to write them off? Or are we going to change? And that's a question that I have. And if we are going to change, what is the second plan? I would have really liked to have had a choice for people throughout the island to look at, to give them an option. We're not giving—We're giving the people of Hawaii County one plan to look at. I thought we originally had two. Now, we've changed back to one. And we don't have the time, apparently, to have a second plan. So, my question is, what happens if the people in the island say this isn't okay? You're going to say, well, you know, we need change and you've got to be the ones that sacrifice. You'll be the sacrificial lamb again. That's a serious question. What do we do if there's an uprising in Puna? I yield. 56 LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Well, that's a hypothetical question. `Cause we don't know what's going to happen. So, we need to put out something now. And then if there is such an uprising, then we can deal with it. You know, there's going to beI'm sure there will be pushback from a number of different districts. And there definitely will be adjustments that we have to make. But I think we can't do that in advance by having another map. I think Diana told us last time, that we really can only present one. We were hoping to present two, but we can't. BATH: Commissioner Bath. I'm sorry. I guess I didn't hear that. Okay, thank you. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: So, Corp Counsel informed us that we have to present one final map, as a draft map, to the communities. LUL That's still a draft. KOSSOW: Yeah, as long as it's still a draft. HUSTACE: That's correct. It's still a draft. We are welcoming comments and feedback for the last draft, basically. And then we have to try and adjust for those changes, and any requests that are within reason. You know, we're still held to these numbers. For the conversation that we have to have with our neighbors and our community members, is the number is 22,323. We have to get as close to it as possible for our equal representation purposes. Thank you. And you know, how we view and see our communities, we have to adapt as best as possible. Change is always going to happen. And everything we do for this one district, or another district, is going to affect all the other ones. Just because we have nine districts. We have to carve out nine districts. Thank you. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: We've gone through this for so long now, I'm really not recalling how Council 3 got so out of whack from the 1-1 version. I don't know if anybody else would feel similarly but, I'd like to go back and look at the 1-1 again. And see how did we get to here from that one? Because that was the closest, we had. Does that I don't want to create more time, but I really don't recall how we got Council 3 so out of whack. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez requested 1.1. Mr. Hustace is pulling it up now. 57 LOPEZ: And it may just be, look at the numbers here. So, everything is good except Council 6. Again, I don't know how we got it out of whack. But these were, again, strictly from a number's perspective. These look very reasonable. We just need to deal with Council 6. Thank you. KOSSOW: I think we're going to need to move Council 5 into where Kea`au was. Ms. Ah Nee, how far does Pana`ewa go? AH NEE: Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Ms. Ah Nee, thank you. AH NEE: I believe, if you're looking at just the Hawaiian homesteads, it'll go up into about Makalika, which is where the Nani Mau Gardens are. There's a little bit of some scattered agricultural lots. But in communicating with some of the constituents in the Pana`ewa area, there was I think, talk about the Pana`ewa Canal, which actually ends at Mahi`ai Street—being a potential border and giving part of Council 4 or 5. At this point, it'sSorry, for my confusion, I'm looking at several maps here. I believe now it's Council 5's district in that area. Potentially, we may not be able to keep—and I'm open for compromise. I'm all for compromise and discussion. We may not be able to keep all of our Hawaiian homesteaders in the same district. But if that is the case, I'm pretty sure we will have some discussion from the public on that. If we haven't already had some. But I think we can be a little bit open to some of this, adjusting. I think either way we look at any of these maps, the district in dire number change is actually going to be District 6. And not so much 5 and 4, in my eyes. If we're looking at—Many of the maps I've seen so far, in only the two meetings I have been present for, it seems to collectively come back down to numbers being a massive issue for District 6. So, either way, I think like Commissioner Akamu, I'm flexible. I'm open for discussion. I think I'm the newest person in this canoe here. So, I'm still learning and I'm very willing to be adjustable. As well as to represent to the voting public in District 3, the potential for some change. And change is not always a bad thing. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ah Nee. YOSHINA: Chair Kossow? Dwayne. KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I think we all have to be realistic and just be prepared to take input from the public. That's what the public hearing is all about. And then make the adjustments at that time. And I might be hanging myself but, I would hope that the public comes out and makes its positions known to us. So, that we would have a better ground to draw maps that are more to their liking. I don't think we will be able to satisfy everyone, but that's the purpose of the public hearings, right? To collect the public comment. I yield. 58 BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: We did have some public hearings, that I seem to recall, that Puna did have the greatest voice during that. I yield. LUL Commissioner Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I'm not sure if this is out of order but, I was curious about the way that public hearings are going to be held? In the original ones, of course, there was no maps. So, we were just listening. But in this one, will there be an opportunity for commissioners to kind of explain what are these various questions that we've been having to deal with? And not to just defend our map, but just to say, these are the constraints, and this is why it looks like this at the moment. Will there be that kind of back and forth? KOSSOW: I don't know the answer to that question. That would be more towards Corp Counsel or the Elections Office. However, it is a little bit out of order, but I think for purpose of giving James enough time to select some census blocks, I think we can accommodate that conversation. MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey? MELLON-LACEY: So, generally the purpose of the public hearing is for the public to give input. And certainly, there could be some discussion if the public has questions about things. But, as a general rule, making a lot of presentations and things like that, can take away from the public's ability to participate. Given that, people come at different times or come on at different times, and that's really the priority. One thing that could be done, if there's time, is to have some kind of description with the map that may be able to be included with it. That would cover things taken into consideration, or ideas that influenced the map. Then that could be made available that way. But that'sI wouldn't think you'd want to have a big program or anything. Because you really want—the emphasis should be, on the public giving their input. And also, we would want to be able to get this out so that people can see it in advance and have time to think about it. But since that's really not an agenda item for today, I don't think it's something we can go into a lot of detail discussing, because it's not on the agenda. KOSSOW: Is that a weird census block? HUSTACE: Yes, Chair. This one here crosses the canal there. So, it probably should have been broken here. As you can see, this should have been a separate census block, but it crosses over. So, if you include—and I'll highlight it hereIf you include that 59 census block, you're going to have to include ones nearby it too, is my assumption. (Pause.) I wasn't sure how far out on the coast it should go either. I mean it's zero population here. But for the sake of straight lines in the district—. KOSSOW: What was the population within that area? HUSTACE: Sorry, which one, Chair? KOSSOW: Within the Pana`ewa. The new area that you had it on. HUSTACE: All of these here? KOSSOW: Yes. (Pause while Vice Chair Hustace adjusts the projected map.) A little over four. How come the overall range was added on for—How come the overall range was off for that? HUSTACE: Yeah, I don't know. I think it's just because of the total. Let me look at that again. (Pause.) I think it's calculating our total percentage that we're still beyond that ten percent when we calculate it all together. KOSSOW: I see. HUSTACE: Some of them are really close to the number, right? But we have a couple that could have slight adjustments. And then we've got two that need help. (Pause.) So, we're going to have to make a tough decision here. And pushing some of 6 further into 5 then. We had a map that was the Fern Acres area. So, I'm just going to see what that looks like here. (Pause.) That does bring down the numbers quite a bit, closer together. KOSSOW: Head over to Council 7. Bring that—oh no. There's no connectivity unless you go from the bottom. Do the 142. (Pause.) Okay. That brings it down to...? HUSTACE: Council 7 is 4.7 under, and Council 6 is 5.38 under. KOSSOW: So, we're still within that deviation. HUSTACE: Do you mind if I run it quickly? I'm just curious what it says now after we've made some drastic changes there. So, we're within the maximum deviation check. But overall, we're still kind of over ten percent total between—And it's showing those larger numbers. So, Council 5 is still over. And Council 6 and 7 are under. So, together, it's going to be over ten percent of a change. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: What was your rationale to do that change to Council 7? `Cause you made the negative number larger. What were you trying to accomplish? 60 KOSSOW: I was trying to get it to negative 5.99 percent deviation. LOPEZ: Oh, worse off. Okay. And for purposes of...? KOSSOW: Ensuring that it gets into the LOPEZ: Six (6)? KOSSOW: Into 6, yeah. LOPEZ: Okay. Thank you. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath? BATH: I'd like to try something. I'd like to move the northern border of 7 into 8. And then the northern border of 8 into 9 and see. And give each of those districts about three hundred extra—Well, don't exceed over a hundred people per district if you can. So, raise the negative of District 7 to maybe plus one hundred. And do the same thing for 8, if you would please. I'm just trying to see. I think the word overall was used. I'm just trying to see if each district to the north, and coming around, gives a little bit, if we could resolve this. My concern is that when we get to District 1's southern border, and unyieldingness of that Waianuenue thing. Which I understand, is only based on about fifty people and a couple camps. So, I don't know if the Commission's willing to do that. I just wanted to make a request and see what would happen with the numbers. I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I object to that. We've already talked about freezing 8. And we've spent so much time, we're running out of time to try these abstract changes. I personally object to going down this hole. Thank you. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Mr. Lopez, you just said, you used the pronoun "we" decided. Who specifically from the Commission made that decision? You said we made the decision. I yield. LOPEZ: Yes. That came from the Chair earlier. When he says, as far as he's concerned, we could freeze District 8. BATH: Commissioner Bath. Oh, did you yield? LOPEZ: Yes, I yield. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Lopez. Ms. Bath. 61 BATH: So, Chair, I'd like to revisit that `cause I didn't hear it. I remembered Mr. Lopez saying he'd like to freeze 8, and I can definitely see the value to that, to him, his district. But I don't recall any of the rest of the Commissioners saying that they agreed with that. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Is there any objection from the Commission to make these changes that Ms. Bath is requesting? Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Yes. I object. It's purely in the interest of time at this junction. I've got thirty minutes to deliberate further on this. We're simply out of time. We've gone over and over and over. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Mr. Lopez, I can understand if maybe you have something else you need to do today. I would support you doing it. I am committed to not rushing through this process and doing everything that we can if it means reconvening. I'd just like to give that a shot. I think that Puna—We owe it to Puna. I yield. MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow? This is Diana Mellon-Lacey. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: I was going to suggest, in order to avoid debate in this manner, I think the preferred way would be for a motion and a second, discussion, and then a decision. If there's just dialogue between two members about, should we or should we not, it's the cleanest way to address these issues. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I move to unfreeze the frozen District 8 and look at moving—making an adjustment to the northern part of District 7. And to do that with the northern edge of District 8. And the eastern edge of District 9. That is my motion. KOSSOW: Motion's on the table. Is there a second? AKAMU: Commissioner Akamu. Second. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu, second. Is there any discussion? 62 AKAMU: Chair? Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Mr. Akamu did second. Is there a discussion? AKAMU: Yeah, Chair. I'd like to add a few comments if I may? KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: I definitely understand the time crunch,but I believe that's the process that we should go through. And we have taken a lot of time to try to accommodate taking a look at different changes in Puna and Fern Forest, etcetera. So, I do support us taking some additional time. I do realize that our time today may be short, and perhaps we would need to reconvene. But I do support making some of these changes and seeing what happens. I do agree with Commissioner Lopez. It does seem a bit redundant because we started this morning doing this. And we had our version 1.2, and then we sort of got stuck. But I do support taking the time to go through this and taking a look. And that might help myself, and even perhaps Commissioner Bath, really see that other compromises may have to be made. So, thank you. I yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Akamu. Any other discussion? (No response.) I would also note, Mr. Akamu, we can't I don't think we should reconvene. Just thinking about the logistics regarding getting these maps printed, getting it out to the twelve public hearings [sic], also considerations for the newspaper. So, there's a lot of things that, you know, is kind of riding on this. So, any other discussion regarding the motion? (No response.) Mr. Kauka, please call the roll. KAUKA: Commissioner Lui? LUL Aye. KAUKA: Commissioner Yoshina? YOSHINA: I'm a little confused as to what we're voting on at this point. KOSSOW: So, Ms. Bath created a motion in order for us to go through the west side of the island and then come up to the north side to readjust the deviations. YOSHINA: Do we have a time constraint on that? KOSSOW: Well, we're going to lose one commissioner here at 4:30. I don't know how everybody else's schedule is going to look like, but I imagine if we start losing commissioners then we do have a time constraint. I would say about 4:30. YOSHINA: With some reservation, I'll say aye. 63 (After Commissioner Yoshina's vote, Mr. Kauka continued with the roll call vote) Ms. Bath moved to unfreeze District 8 and to look at making an adjustment to the northern part of District 7 with the northern edge of District 8 and eastern edge of District 9. Seconded by Mr. Akamu. The motion to unfreeze District 8 and to look at making an adjustment to the northern part of District 7 with the northern edge of District 8 and eastern edge of District 9 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Bath, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina. Noes: Commissioner Lopez, Vice Chair Hustace, Chair Kossow. KAUKA: Chair, you have six ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you. So, let's go back to the maps, for 1.4. Ms. Bath, can you tell us what area that you wanted to change? BATH: I think the District 7 and District 8 Commissioners would know their areas best, and make those adjustments that would be needed to bring the District 7 numbers up. Our goal is to bring the District 7 number up. HUSTACE: Point of order, Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: That was not the motion made. The motion made was to have Commissioner Bath adjust the numbers. Thank you. BATH: Okay. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, do you have any suggestions for the maps to be readjusted? BATH: Okay, I can do that. I'm sorry. I guess I should have . Bear with me, my computer just shut down. Oh, this is going to be fun. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Just, could you expand the maps so we can take a look better? I think it would be helpful if the Commissioners for 7, right now, and then for 8—Because we did go over a 64 number of them, if they could kind of summarize what we tried to do, rather than reinventing the wheel here. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, you have the floor next. BATH: May I please have the numbers for 7, 8, and 9 now? What the deficits in those districts are? HUSTACE: Council 7 is currently on the map on the screen, which is Working Doc 1-4. It's the iteration we've recently been working on. Council 7 is 4.7 below. So, that's short 1,044 residents, which is a total of 21,188. Council 8 is short by 0.81 percent. That's short 179 residents, for a total of 22,053. Council 9 is below by 0.58 percent. Which is 130 individuals, for a total of 22,102. BATH: Thank you. So, I'm just going to read back those figures. Thank you for giving them to me. It's kind of hard to see them on the screen here in Hilo Chambers. District 7 has an extra 1,044 people. District 8 has an extra 179 people. And District 9 has 130 extra people. Is that correct? HUSTACE: That's incorrect, Commissioner Bath. Those are all negative numbers. BATH: Those are all negative numbers. Okay. Thank you. Great. So, bear with me because I don't know your district. Like you don't know my district. Looking at the boundary, to the right of Hawaii Belt Highway, take the 374-census block. Oh, I'm sorry. Nevermind, I need to move up. (Pause.) From the Hawaii Belt Highway on the left, take that whole little clump of census blocks. The one, I believe it's 255, 187, 210, 28, 95, 133 KOSSOW: What is the roads you're looking at? BATH: I'm looking at Alihilani Drive, is it? The lines are right over Hana Place? I cannot read some of them. Let me make it bigger. Maybe that'll help. Okay, there we go. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, are you in the right map? BATH: Oh! You know what, I'm not because I don't have—How do I bring up on my computer what we've been working on? I can't, right? KOSSOW: You can. It's 1.4. It should be under the County of Hawai`i's shared plans. HUSTACE: So, it's a shared map. It reads 11-29-21 Working Doc 1-4. BATH: Thank you. It's a shared map... KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, can you yield for one second here? 65 BATH: Sure can. Of course. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I guess I was just feeling like looking at this again, eachIf we move up, it's going to be like each one has to take from the next. And you know like, for 7 will be too small—will be ever smaller, and then 8 will be even smaller, then 9 will be small. So, we'll come back around. And I feel like we're going to end up in the same place, in that 5 is going to have to give up people. But,just from a different direction. So, that's what I'm feeling at the moment. I'm not sure this is going to work. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, do you yield? LUL Yes, I do. Sorry. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Bath? BATH: Yeah. That's precisely the goal here. For District 5 to give up from the lower portion of their district, and not give up—They've already given up a lot, a third of their district. Although, I do understand that I really appreciate District 6's support of this process. And I've been really trying to look at that specifically because of his understanding of the situation and the support. If this is going to be a problem for all of the Commissioners—'Cause it seems like the Commissioner's hearts aren't into really doing this for the intent that I want it done. And so, as difficult it is for me, I'm going to withdraw my motion and yield to you guys. KOSSOW: I'm sorry, Ms. Bath. The motion can't be withdrawn because we've voted on it and there was a majority that had voted for it. BATH: Okay. So, I make a motion that we not move forward on the actions of the previous motion because I do not feel that the hearts of all the Commissioners are into it. And so, I would like to make the motion to not move forward on the previous motion. KOSSOW: Motion's on the table by Ms. Bath to withdraw the other action. Is there a second? LOPEZ: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Lopez. Is there any discussion? Ms. Lui. LUL I just want to know from Stephanie, what was your final? Like by moving around the whole island, what was your expectation or hope? Could you just say that again, so I am clear? I yield. 66 KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Ms. Bath. BATH: Thanks for asking. As I started, at the beginning of the meeting today, I saw that there was room for adjustment and compromise. If we started from Ka`u, and we moved up and around. And it was going to be 2,050 possible votes that just needed to be adjusted. And it was really doable. It was going to take compromise and change in each of the districts. Which is what I think we all want to do, is work together and compromise. However, it didn't seem like that happened. My goal was to try to do that again. But I do see a stalemate at the line of District 2 and District 1, because of three camps that have testified that they don't want to be affected. And the result of that is that communities in upper Puna are being affected. Big chunks of communities because of a few, maybe fifty-two people, along the Waianuenue border. And so, I just wanted to see if we could get those 2,050 votes to give to Ka`u. And they would be coming from the other districts. And then District 5 would do their part. District 3 would do their part. But it does not seem like the hearts of the Commissioners are wanting to do that. And there's nothing that I can do to change hearts. So, that was my purpose and my reason. And I wanted to do it this morning, but it didn't happen. And I can see that it's not going to happen. I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I just wanted to be clear, Stephanie, that I never said that I was not willing to move the boundary of 1 down to Wailuku or Waianuenue. That is still under consideration and may in fact come up. But as you've pointed out yourself, it's not enough people to really affect what happens below that in Puna. I might not be on the motion, so I'll yield. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Thank you, Chair. I take objections to the accusations. Thank you. KOSSOW: Any further discussion? YOSHINA: Yeah. Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Mr. Yoshina. YOSHINA: I join Mr. Hustace because I don't think it's only fifty-five people. As you say, in your districts, you have a number of people you want to help. Well, I want to help fifty-five people. So, to make them the bad guys is unacceptable to me. I'm not here to make anybody a bad guy. Okay? So, let's be clear. It's not the Waianuenue Avenue people or the Wailuku River people. I mean, we're all here trying to get to some level of agreement. So, when you start pointing to a specific group of people, or a commissioner, and saying that I am the cause, I take umbrage with that. Now, you know, you said it publicly, so I'm willing to accept the responsibility. But I would hope that you not characterize this as, oh Hilo did not want to give up fifty-five people. That is so far from the truth. And I take real exception to your comment about that. So, I yield. 67 BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: I'd like to make a reminder to all Commissioners, when they do present themselves, I would just ask that they do so and address the Chair, and not the individual Commissioners, as much as possible. Another thing is, let's be polite here. Let's avoid questioning motives, focus on the issues, and not the personalities, and listen to the other side. And then we can have a constructive conversation. So, I heard Ms. Bath first, and then LUL I'd like to call the question. KOSSOW: Yes. Ms. Lui? LUL I'd like to call the question. KOSSOW: Okay. Mr. Kauka,please call the roll? KAUKA: Chair, is this on the call on the question that Ms. Lui's KOSSOW: There's a call on the question for the motion by Ms. Bath. Seconded by Mr. Lopez, regarding to withdraw the last action. Thank you. KAUKA: Thank you. Ms. Bath moved to withdraw the last action, which was to unfreeze District 8 and to look at making an adjustment to the northern part of District 7 with the northern edge of District 8 and eastern edge of District 9. Seconded by Mr. Lopez. The motion to withdraw the last action, which was to unfreeze District 8 and to look at making an adjustment to the northern part of District 7 with the northern edge of District 8 and eastern edge of District 9 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Bath, Lopez, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. KAUKA: Chair, there are nine ayes. 68 KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. We're going to move back over to 1-4, which we currently have up on the screen here. We still have deficit. We have a positive and a deficit, correct? HUSTACE: That's correct, Chair. We have a positive in 3, 4, 5, and a deficit in 6 and 7 of substantial values. That's all. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Commissioners, is there any motion into considering the changes into the map? Is there any motions to make any changes to the map? Or for consideration? LOPEZ: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I see that all the districts are within the acceptable deviation. How about the overall deviation? KOSSOW: I believe that Council District 5 is at 7.13 percent deviation. We need to get it to 5.99. LOPEZ: That's your goal, to get it to 5.99? KOSSOW: That's correct. LOPEZ: Oh, okay. Alright, then that's what we should work on. Thank you. I yield. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I think it's important for the morale of this Commission, for me to clarify that the reason that I made the statement about the Waianuenue line was because I spoke with the Commissioner from that area to clarify what the issue was along that line, the reason not to. And I asked him about the particular camps. I wanted to learn more. I wanted to know about the numbers of the people. And he couldn't answer the question initially, but I think he was the one that told me it was about 52 or 54, something like that. And all along the discussion was about these three camps. And so, that was my rationale for revisiting that. If it was only 54 people, if that was the testimony that he repeatedly brought up, that's the reason why I was looking at that area and the possibility of moving that line. Since then, he said that there's more to it. I publicly apologized to Dwayne and to any other Commissioner, if I have intentionally, or unintentionally, offended anyone. But I do see that there is room to move in the other districts. I don't think that's going to happen, but I just wanted to clarify that my intention has never been to offend or to blame. I yield. 69 KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I think there is room to move, but not in this iteration. So, I think that what we're going to have to do now, is to put some people from 5 into 6, and kind of let the chips fall at the public meetings, and then take it from there. `Cause I don't think we want to be here until 10 o'clock tonight. And those are the two districts that have the deviation that's a problem. So, I think we should just go for that, for now, and know that we will make changes later. I would also suggest that,perhaps Stephanie and maybe other people too, can work on a different map that starts in a different area. Because there probably will be other changes that need to be made, but I don't think we can make them now. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Commissioner Lui. I just want to make it a motion, so that way we can concentrate on that specific target that you're requesting. LUL Okay. I make motion that we keep our focus on this map, as the one we're going to present to the public, by changing 5 and 6 to make them come into the correct—close enough, so that we're under the ten percent deviation. KOSSOW: Motion's on the floor by Ms. Lui. Is there a second? LOPEZ: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Lopez. Any discussion? (No response.) No discussion. Mr. Kauka, please call the roll. Ms. Lui moved to focus on Working Doc 1-4, by changing the boundaries of Council Districts 5 and 6, to get under the ten percent deviation. Seconded by Mr. Lopez. The motion to focus on Working Doc 1-4, by changing the boundaries of Council Districts 5 and 6, to get under the ten percent deviation was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Lopez, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. [Abstaift] Excused: Commissioner Bath. KAUKA: Chair, you have eight ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Mr. Hustace, if we can go down into between the borders of 6 and 5. HUSTACE: I'm just going to see what the numbers look like here. There's some connectivity with the road that comes off of the Belt Road here. Kopua Road, is that 70 correct, Commissioners? That's the one that residents of Fern Acres use to access their subdivision, if I'm not mistaken, as well as Glenwood. But on the Hilo side, I think it's Kopua. So, for the sake of seeing what the numbers look like, I'm just going to test and see what this looks like here. Give me a second. (Pause.) KOSSOW: Ms. Lui? Is that your hand up? LUL I just wanted to hear from Commissioner Akamu again, as to where he thinks it should best be taken. AKAMU: Chair, this is Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: We're really going farther into Puna than I had wanted us to go. Because even from the last Redistricting Commission, there's definitely a strong sense of those people. But, along the lines of what Commissioner Lui was sharing, I think for purposes of getting a draft done, knowing that it's not perfect, I would be okay with moving the Council 6 District further into Mountain View. But I do anticipate a lot of voices and concern from that. So, I do think it will be something that we're going to have to really come back and refine specifically for this community here. Also interestingly, Council District 6, as well as Council District 7, is about the same number of residents below the ideal. And so, as we start taking more from District 5, it'll balance out District 5 and 6. But District 7 will still be about 1,400 or so under. That's just something else that I was thinking about as we keep pushing more into Council District 5. But I think where you have the line right now is reasonable. It makes sense in terms of the connection and what roads people use to kind of get into those communities there. I know it's going to cause some frustration in the community. But then it'll be our job to do the best that we can taking those comments and try to work together and compromise. We do have to stick to our ten percent deviation. That really is kind of the absolute bar that we need to stay within. And so, if that is the reason why we need to make some of these considerations, I think that as long as we're open and transparent about it, and let the public know our reasons for our final choices, I would be happy if, you know, if this is what it is. So, I support the line where it is there, to add more people into the Ka`u district. `Cause if you look at it now, we're 190 over. So, yeah, we got really close, and even Council District 5. Commissioner Hustace, I appreciate your great work with these maps. I yield. BATH: Chair Bath? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath, and then Mr. Lopez. BATH: I mean Ms. Bath, Chair. Commissioner Bath. Sorry. I don't want to be Chair. Just for purposes of clarification for the other Commissioners that don't live in upper Puna. There is no connectivity, if you can zoom back into what used to be upper Puna, all of those subdivisions that you've been slicing off and adding to Ka`u. Just as a matter of information, there is no connectivity between any of those subdivisions, from Highway 71 130 up to Volcano, other than through Hawaiian Acres. All subdivisions have to go out to Highway 11 to get up into the next subdivision. So, those lines that you see are not roads that connect subdivisions. That doesn't exist. It is in the Puna Community Development Plan to have that happen, but in the past twelve years it hasn't because we don't have voice. I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: Thank you. I want to go back and revisit District 7. I think Commissioner Kossow took a hit unnecessarily in the strong interest of compromise to assist this discussion. And now that I see that District 6 is in good stead, I think he should reconsider maybe taking back the census blocks that he gave up to get to the negative 1,077. Doesn't seem right to me that he gave up that population to try to help, and then it got fixed another way. And that was down in the south of District 7,just below Captain Cook, that you had made those concessions. KOSSOW: Yeah. LOPEZ: So, I'd ask you to reconsider, please. Thank you for offering though. AKAMU: Chair, this is Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: I support what Commissioner Lopez just shared. And if he would like to put that in a motion, I'll definitely second it. I yield. LOPEZ: Thank you for that. Yes, I move that the census blocks that District 7 gave up to assist District 6 earlier, be reinstated into District 7. It'll make District 7 in better position, and it won't affect District 6 that much. AKAMU: I second. KOSSOW: Motioned by Mr. Lopez. Seconded by Mr. Akamu. Is there any discussion? (No response.) Without hearing any discussion, Mr. Kauka,please call the roll. Mr. Lopez moved to reinstate the census blocks back into District 7. Seconded by Mr. Lopez. The motion to reinstate the census blocks back into District 7 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Lopez, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. 72 [Abstaift] Excused: Commissioner Bath. KAUKA: Chair, there are eight ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Mr. Hustace, if you can go down into where the Captain Cook area is. I think there's the three census blocks there, and then the—What does that deviation show? MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow? KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. MELLON-LACEY: Just as a point of order, according to your Rules, and this is the rules on voting which is Section IV. c.,No member shall refrain from voting unless excused by the Chairperson or is otherwise excused by law. Unless a member is excused from voting, silence shall be recorded as an affirmative. So, I'm not sure Ms. Bath is aware of that, but if she doesn't wish to vote, she should seek you excusing her from voting. BATH: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: I previously abstained on another vote. I wanted to be put down as a no on that one. Or I'd like to ask that I had been excused from that vote, and this vote. KOSSOW: Okay. Let the record show that the last two motions that was made, will be excused by Ms. Bath, versus the abstention. Thank you. BATH: Thank you. (Note: The last two voting summaries above were corrected accordingly.) KOSSOW: Thank you for the clarification, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. The motion did carry. Mr. Hustace already took out two census blocks three census blocks. Thank you. If we can take the 175 mauka of Alii Drive, and then there's that one there. I think that should level it out a little bit. Yeah. HUSTACE: Chair, I did catch one block up here,just for sake of clarity, that had nine individuals. It's pretty far mauka. I don't know if you're familiar with the connectivity up there, and what that would be. KOSSOW: There is a roadway that gets up there. I think it's the Judd Road. It actually connects to the backside of Hualalai. I don't know them specifically, but I think they would probably more be in the Council 6. HUSTACE: Council 6, even though the connectivity might be an issue for them? 73 KOSSOW: Where is the roadway? HUSTACE: So, Belt Road is down here, in Kealakekua. Do they travel mauka up there? KOSSOW: I think it's behind—Yeah, okay. Council 7 will be fine for this because the roadway goes mauka of Konawaena High School. HUSTACE: Okay. Yeah. I was kind of curious about that. KOSSOW: Thank you for that. HUSTACE: Make sure they're allI know they're removed from the population center, but make sure they're in the same district if they're connected to others nearby. Okay so, that adjustment puts Council 6—Once again, we were taking from Council 6 to go to Council 7, so it evens it out a little bit more between those two on that border. So, Council 6 would be negative 1.32. Which is short 293, for a total of 21,939. And Council 7 is at negative 2.52. Which is short by 561, for total of 21,671. And for clarity's sake, I can just show that we do pass integrity checks now. So, we're falling within the deviation. KOSSOW: Mr. Lopez. LOPEZ: I move that we accept this map as the draft map to put forward from the Commission. AH NEE: Second. KOSSOW: Motion's on the table. Who seconded? AH NEE: Commissioner Ah Nee. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Ah Nee. Seconded by Ms. Ah Nee. Any discussion? BATH: Chair? I ask to be excused from the vote. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other discussion? (No response.) Mr. Kauka, please call the roll. Mr. Lopez moved to accept Working Doc 1-4, in its current state, as the draft map to put forward from the Commission. Seconded by Ms. Ah Nee. The motion to accept Working Doc 1-4, in its current state, as the draft map to put forward from the Commission was carried by the following vote: 74 Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Lopez, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Excused: Commissioner Bath. KAUKA: Chair, you have eight ayes. NEW BUSINESS /REPORTS /ANNOUNCEMENTS KOSSOW: Thank you. Commissioners, looks like the draft plans have passed. We will work with the Elections Office to get these printed. A friendly reminder, the planned hearings is December 14'h and the 16''. I believe in the last meeting, we discussed what time it's going to be at. It's at 6:30. The 14'h is going to be at the West Hawaii Civic Center. The 16'h is going to be at the Hilo Chambers. And then, is anybody from the Elections staff available? Actually, this is not even part of our agenda, but that was just an announcement. Ms. Mellon-Lacey, am I allowed to ask questions? Whether or not the prints would be made available? MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow, I believe that that was discussed at the last meeting. So, I think you could ask the Elections Office to provide a brief update. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. If we can have the Elections Office just give us a very, very brief update here. NAKAMOTO: Hi. Good afternoon. Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator. Yes, we did go out and get estimates on the maps. So, we are looking at getting maps for each of the libraries that have been identified, around the island. We will also be printing out 8 �/z x I I handout maps. And those, we'll be able to distribute to the public or at the public hearings. I don't have my glasses but, the cost for the poster board maps will be around $570. And the 8 �/z x I I will be about a hundred dollars. So, they will be—Well, now that the plan—You know, you folks approved it this afternoon. We will try and get it to the printers probably either by tomorrow or Wednesday. And they should be available for the public hearings. Any questions? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL Just in terms of the ones for the public hearings should be on poster board, but the ones for the library don't have to be. I went to look at those State ones, and that way you can pick `em up, move `em around. And anyway, that might save you a couple of bucks but. 75 NAKAMOTO: Yes, that is our intent. To take them out how the State delivered theirs. You know, rolled up. We're going to get tubings to put them in, to protect them. We will have one map that will travel with us, for the public hearings, that will be on posterboard. LUL Great. KOSSOW: Any other questions for Elections? BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. BATH: Well, there is some concern about the public hearings,just being in Kona and Hilo, because of thea lot of the changes in Puna. And the people that don't have gas, that are in poverty, are not going to be able to come to the public hearings. We had the same challenges during the Community Development Plan's where people could not weigh in because of their circumstances. Is there any way that flyers can be given to the schools? And having the children, at least, bring them home? What options are there for outreach to the isolated communities? NAKAMOTO: That's a decision you folks would have to make and tell us what you want. You know? We heard that the larger maps should be at the libraries. And then, we should have the other maps available at the public hearings. If you folks want these 8 1/2 x I I maps in other areas around the island, then you need to let us know. BATH: Thank you. So, that needs to be an agenda item for our next meeting. Okay. Chair, I'd like to request that that be an agenda item for the next meeting. I yield. KOSSOW: No problem. Thank you, Ms. Bath. Any other questions for Elections? (No response.) Alright, thank you. Thank you, Ms. Nakamoto. NAKAMOTO: Okay. You're welcome. KOSSOW: As far as—Ms. Mellon-Lacey? MELLON-LACEY: Chair,just as a brief announcement, and we'll consider this an update from the last meeting. We have an update on the costs for these, the maps, and the ads. And I believe a decision does have to be made prior to our next meeting date, which I believe is the 9h. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. SAIKL Hi, this is Cori. KOSSOW: Hi, Cori. 76 SAIKL Hi! I got quotes from both newspapers: Hawaii Tribune Herald and West Hawaii Today. The quotes that I got is for half a page. If we ran them on the two Sundays, we're looking at about$13,000 in black and white. And to run them for the Sunday through Thursday, would be about$20,000 color. And that's half page only. The full page, we're looking at$25,000 or $30,000. Twenty-five thousand ($25,000) running it only on two Sundays. And then, $30,000 from December 12'h through December 16''. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Lui. LUL I think that color is important because it's really hard to see the districts on a black and white paper. I'm not sure about the length of time, so I'll leave that to other people. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Cori, how much is left in your current budget? And then based off of the Commissioners want, how much do we need to allocate to you folks? SAIKL The current budge as of last I think it was an attachment to you folks, through an email. There was $72,146.90 left. KOSSOW: And that's with the printings that you guys already have? Or you guys are going to do? Or SAIKL No. That's not including the printings. And that's not including—We're still awaiting invoices from the last public hearings. About$600, we're waiting for one invoice for that. KOSSOW: Okay. So, give or take we have about$68,000 or $70,000. SAIKL Yes. KOSSOW: Okay. And Ms. Lui's request for colored on the paper, how much was that? SAIKL That would be depending if it ran only on two Sundays or from the 12'h through the 16''. Do you know what duration you're looking at? KOSSOW: I guess, what's both that you're suggesting? SAIKL Half page color would be $19,000 for the five days. The full-page color would be $30,000 for the five days; $25,000 for the two Sundays. And then the half page would be, for the two Sundays, it would be about$13,000. KOSSOW: Thank you. Ms. Lui. LUL Could you clarify? The five days would be what days? From the 5h to the 9h or? SAIKL No. From the 12'', the Sunday before the hearings, through December 16''. So, December 12'h through December 16. 77 LUL Okay. That doesn't seem like it gives people enough time to plan. So, I'm not sure because the 16'h is the second hearing. I don't know. What do other people think? So, the two Sundays would be 5 and 12? SAIKL Yes. LUL Is there a possibility of running it 5'through 9h, instead of 12'h through 16''? SAIKL Uh-huh. That I would need to check with the newspaper on what their deadline is. LUL Okay. HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, you yield? LUL Yeah, I yield. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: It's definitely good to run it on the day of those two. I would agree. Just so that people see it that morning. It's a last-minute reminder, but I'm not sure. Looking back we allotted $20,000 of the 75 [$75,000], or at the time we thought 75 [$75,000], for advertisement. So, these would exceed that 20 [$20,000]. Is that correct? SAIKL Yes. HUSTACE: Yeah. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui. LUL I make a motion that we do the color ad from the 12'h through the 16''. And I'm convinced by Commissioner Hustace. And that we expand the amount that we can spend on this because we have enough in the budget. So, I don't know if that can be included in one motion. KOSSOW: Alright, Ms. Lui. I just want to make sure I got this right. It's the half page, the $19,000 for five days? LUL Yes, color. KOSSOW: Colored. Okay. And what was the dates in your motion? 78 LUL From the 12'h through the 16'', and that we expand the $30,000 on it, or whatever it is. KOSSOW: So, you want to raise the current budget for Elections to 30? Or you want to add in 30? LUL Well, I just wanted to cover whatever it costs. KOSSOW: Okay, thank you. I'm just trying to get clarification. Okay. So, the motion's on the table to add in additional cash for the Elections Division. Is there a second? YOSHINA: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. Is there any discussion? (No response.) Alright, Mr. Kauka, please call the roll. Ms. Lui moved to increase the Commission's advertisement budget and run colored ads in local newspapers from December 12'h through the 16''. Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. The motion to increase the Commission's advertisement budget and run colored ads in local newspapers from December 12'h through the 16'h was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Bath, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Lopez. KAUKA: Chair, there are eight ayes. KOSSOW: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Is there any other unfinished business we need to discuss from Elections or Corp Counsel? Oh, excuse me. Mr. Kauka, have you heard anything about the Facebook page or social media? KAUKA: Yes. We'll be using the social media platforms to send out and post notifications about the public hearings and continue boosting them also. KOSSOW: Okay. Thank you very much. So, that being said, I did discuss with Mr. Kauka whether or not we should have a meeting right after the public hearing. So, I wanted to hear back from the Commissioners on whether or not we want to wait a whole week and a half, or you want to do it that Friday after the completion of the public hearings. Mr. Kauka, what date was that? 79 KAUKA: So, Chair,just to reset, as it stands now,we have our next meeting scheduled for December 9 at 9:30. The public hearings for December 14 and December 16. And then the next meeting after that for December 21. We had looked at a possible scheduling of Friday, December 17 as an option. Which is the day after the second public hearing. HUSTACE: Chair? KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Is the suggestion that we maintain and keep the 9h and also add the 17''? Or are we switching the 9h to the 17''? KOSSOW: I think that's what I'm bringing up. Whether or not we want to do both, or do we want to just do the 17''? HUSTACE: There may be some business to discuss. If we set on a map to present to the public, there may be some other business that we can discuss on the 9h. I'm just throwing this out there. Commissioner Bath had something she wanted to our agenda for the 9h. There could be other issues we talked about, like the census block issues, like other stuff that we can prep ahead of time. And also, maybe revisit places around the island and look at other possibilities leading up toI'm just saying this because, if we do the 17'', which is probably a good idea, and the 21", which is, I think, our last scheduled one at the moment, those will probably be pretty full. In terms of taking the comments and testimony, and then making an update. So, in my opinion, I think we could hold both if that's okay with everyone. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Hustace. Ms. Lui? LUL Well, I can't make most of the 17''. I have post-op doctor's visits, but if other people want to go ahead, that's fine. I do agree with Commissioner Hustace, that we keep the 9h for other things. And that we should be kind of ready to still tinker with these maps, given that we are predicting some push back. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. Any other Commissioners regarding the 17''? AKAMU: Chair, this is Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: I was just wondering, what else would we be putting on the agenda for December 9h? Because I know we would have to get that agenda out to the public relatively soon. So,just wondering what other items we might have for our agenda for that day. Thank you. 80 KOSSOW: We do have some unfinished business that we can discuss regarding the census block issues that we have to submit to the U.S. Census Bureau. And Mr. Hustace, you had some other points. Ms. Bath had a really good point, which I wish to bring up during our hearing on the 9h. As well as it's probably more of a clerical day than it is a making/drawing maps type of day. That's going to be the second to the last meeting. Third to the last meeting, if we put the 17'h on. AKAMU: Chair, this is Commissioner Akamu. KOSSOW: Mr. Akamu. AKAMU: I did recall that Commissioner Bath shared about possibly reaching out through schools, or through some other means, to try to increase the public notice about these maps, etcetera. I was just wondering, if we do make decisions about that on December 9h, that would only leave us Friday, and then a Monday, before our first public hearing. So, would that be timely for us to consider additional distribution methods on the 9''? And would it even allow us to get any additional distribution methods out? Yeah, so that was my kind of wonder about that. `Cause I do support what Commissioner Bath had shared earlier. About wanting to try to reach out as much as we can to some of the areas in our communities that don't have the connectivity or does have challenges with just making it to the public site. So,perhaps an earlier meeting, earlier than December 9h? In case we need to make some decisions around just that specific issue of increasing our distribution. `Cause I know that office staff might need some time to get things organized, etcetera. So, my suggestion would be maybe a little earlier than the 9h, if possible. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Akamu. I appreciate the dialogue here. And Mr. Kauka, is there, based off of Mr. Akamu's request, is there any availability in the beginning of the week to move the December 9h meeting? KAUKA: Chair, thank you. I'm looking at the Chamber calendar. For the week of the 6h, we don't have availability. It's a Council week, so the Chambers are being used on Monday the 6h, Tuesday the 7h, and Wednesday the P. We would need time to look if there's another option or alternative location, but only the 9h is reserved right now. We also would need to post and notice six days in advance of that. KOSSOW: Thank you, Mr. Kauka. Ms. Lui. LUL Is it possible just to add to our old agenda item of outreach, which we did discuss as part of the previous meeting, this same meeting that took place last Thursday. Can we just simply say right now that we want these flyers made? As long as they're all being made anyway at the same time. So that, you know, they could make more of those 8 x 11 flyers. KOSSOW: Let me just look at the agenda from last meeting to make sure that we're on. Is Ms. Mellon-Lacey still there? 81 KAUKA: Yes, Chair, she is. She's going through her materials. KOSSOW: Thank you. MELLON-LACEY: Yes, Chair. Let's see. Well, we had discussion of public hearings and establishing dates, times, locations, logistics, advertising, and outreach efforts. And given our tight timeline, I think we could take the liberty to consider this. It's not a major item. I'll ask Ms. Nakamoto to come up. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Mellon-Lacey. Appreciate that. Ms. Bath, since this was your point, I would like to give the floor to you. BATH: I think it would be beneficial to send out flyers, preferably—I know it's expensive but, preferably color so that people can see the various districts. And distribute them through the public schools and charter schools within the districts. How it's been done before is, for example, at the elementary school, they would give—The schools are kind of in tune with how many children are in each household. And they'll give it to one of the children, so there isn't a lot of redundancy within the household. So, that's what I would suggest doing, having reams of them brought based on numbers to the schools. I yield. Oh, one more thing. I said the public and charter school. That would also include private schools as well. I yield. HUSTACE: Chair, I just have a question about that. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: Just curious about that process and the logistics. When we deliver to schools, how isOur target is, of course, our voting population, right? And is it just at the main offices that parents could pick it up from? Is that what I'm understanding? MELLON-LACEY: Chair, if I may? This is Diana Mellon-Lacey. KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. MELLON-LACEY: I suspect there's a bit more logistics involved because schools aren't going to just distribute anything without some kind of permission being granted. And I would suspect that someone would have to contact various area complexes to get approval from the schools, in order for anything to be distributed through them. And I don't know what kind of lead time or effort that entails, but I don't think they would just hand out anything without some kind of clearance. NAKAMOTO: In the past, yes, we would need to contact the schools and get permission from the principals to have them distribute these forms for us. So, it would be contacting the schools. And I know, at the last check, because we do some educational, voter educational programs with the high schools, there were ten high schools. I have no idea 82 how many elementary schools we have here in our County, or charter schools, or private schools. So, we would need to go and gather that information first, and then contact each school individually. I guess we could try the approach of contacting the district office for each complex and see if they would get in touch with the schools and let them know that these flyers are coming out. But then another question would be, how many students are there? How many flyers would we need to take to each school? And then of course, the schools vary in sizes as far as their student population. BATH: I can see that we would need more time to do this. It's unfortunate that we couldn't have had that insight earlier. How long in the past did it take you to get that permission? NAKAMOTO: The last time we did that was when we had that tropical storm several years ago. So, we were talking about only a few schools in that particular area. So yeah, this one would be island-wide so it would be—But, I'm not saying BATH: It might not be feasible though to do it in time. NAKAMOTO: I'm not saying it's impossible, you know. I have the staff. I could ask the staff to try. We can make an effort and try to get this out, but I can't make any promises. MELLON-LACEY: Chair Kossow, if I may? KOSSOW: Ms. Mellon-Lacey. MELLON-LACEY: I'm thinking that there may be some informal ways of getting information to people. The commissioners themselves could help with if they were given a stack of maps. I'm thinking of things like Laundromats, places, shopping malls where people go, stores may be very willing to make things available. And it would be places that people go to that may be. Bulletin boards too. Many areas, shopping malls, and things have bulletin boards where things could be posted. I think this would take work so commissioners would have to be willing to help to do this because you may know in your districts where there would be the most advantageous places to do that. Some of the local stores that people go into. I would think people would welcome helping with that. I could be wrong, but I would think they would be. NAKAMOTO: We have, in the past, gone around the island and placed flyers on bulletin boards when we were doing recruitment for precinct officials. So, we have that information. We know where these bulletin boards are located in different areas around the island. So, we could do something like that. That's easy to do. But as far as the DOE, I mean, we can try. BATH: Commissioner Bath. KOSSOW: Ms. Bath. 83 BATH: I think that's a great idea. We've done that in the past as well. With COVID, things are a little bit different because people aren't going—having their normal patterns of doing that. I don't even know when the schools get out for Christmas break. It might beI don't have children in school anymore, but that might be an issue as well. Catching them before break. So, thank you for your consideration. I yield. KOSSOW: Ms. Nakamoto? Has the Elections Office done every door direct mail? NAKAMOTO: Yes. We have done mailouts also. KOSSOW: Is that a more expensive option? NAKAMOTO: Yes, it's very expensive. KOSSOW: Okay. Just checking. NAKAMOTO: Yeah. The postage is very expensive. KOSSOW: Okay. Ms. Lui. LUL I'd like to just move that the Election Department—If we can ask the Election Department to put up the flyers on bulletin boards. I think that's a great kind of idea. A lot of shopping centers, things like that, rather than through the schools. Thanks. KOSSOW: Ms. Lui, your motion, what I think I'm concerned about is, we give the Elections Office some funds. I'm guessing we have about 40,000 left in the bank here. Do you want to give a specific number to allocate for the flyers? LUL Again, I don't really know what it would cost, but I don't think it would be that much. Maybe Ms. Nakamoto can say if they've done this before. I don't think it's a million places. And if it was the 8 x 11 flyers, that's not going to be that much, I don't think. I don't know if I need to make it a motion, but it's just a request coming off of Stephanie's idea. BATH: Chair? Ms. Bath. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. Go ahead. BATH: I'm just curious. How much would it cost to send a flyer to the whole island? Do you have any clue on what that might be? Bulk mail. NAKAMOTO: Hold on one second. Cori would probably be able to give you best guess estimate on what— BATH: hatBATH: `Cause, did I hear $40,000? 84 NAKAMOTO: And so, are we talking about just mailing them out to registered voters? Because that's the only information we would probably have, addresses for registered voters. KOSSOW: I'm sorry. You said that you only have addresses for registered voters? NAKAMOTO: Yes. We only have informationSo, our mail outs are always to registered voters. KOSSOW: Oh, I see. NAKAMOTO: That's the information we would have. Cori and I are going to discuss this for a second. (Pause.) Okay. For the mail out,just to registered voters, would be about$73,000. BATH: Thank you. NAKAMOTO: That's just for postage. HUSTACE: Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: We can make a recommendation for the next commission to save all their money just for that purpose, maybe then. Thank you. KOSSOW: So, we're still on the discussion with the flyers. We have to figure out how much we want to do, where we want to go. How much it would cost. So, I think to get some movement on here, we do need a motion in order to entertain this idea, and to make sure that it moves forward. BATH: Chair, was that a motion for the Elections to distribute flyers onto bulletin boards, or? KOSSOW: I need a motion in order for us to proceed. BATH: I move that the Elections Division be designated the task of putting colored flyers up on known bulletin boards and areas where the public might get the information. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Bath. There's a motion on the floor to have the Elections Office place some flyers on bulletin boards and what not. Is there a second? LUL Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Ms. Lui. Is there any discussion? 85 HUSTACE: Yes, Chair. KOSSOW: Mr. Hustace. HUSTACE: I'm just curious of manpower/womanpower, the capability to do this within Elections Division. If that's even a possibility. I feel bad about putting this on their Office. Thank you. (Pause.) That was a question to our Elections team. If that's even a possibility to. I don't know that the staff and personnel you have to carry out such a task, to go around the whole island over the next two weeks, week and a half, to do something like that. NAKAMOTO: I'm looking at the calendar. So, our first public hearing is on December 14. We need to have it printed. Yes, I believe we would be able to do that. To go around the island and place bulletin boards. But, it would be great if we could get some suggestions from each Commissioner in their district, where they feel would be the best places for us to put these flyers up at. HUSTACE: Thank you, Ms. Nakamoto. I was concerned that it wasn't a possibility given the task you'd be burdened with there in the next two weeks. I could offer, I don't know the legality but, post offices are always a possibility. But I don't know. That's a federal space, so I don't know if that crosses any sort of boundary there. Just trying to think of places people congregate or spend a little bit of time during their days, other than shopping centers. Of course, I have no idea of all the different bulletin boards that are on the island, in businesses or public spaces. Thank you. KOSSOW: Any other discussion? (No response.) Okay. Mr. Kauka, please call the roll for the motion that was motioned by Ms. Bath, seconded by Ms. Lui. Ms. Bath moved to designate the task of putting colored flyers up on known bulletin boards and in areas where the public might get the information to the Elections Division. Seconded by Ms. Lui. The motion to designate the task of putting colored flyers up on known bulletin boards and in areas where the public might get the information to the Elections Division was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Ah Nee, Akamu, Bath, Lui, Yadao, Yoshina, Vice Chair Hustace, and Chair Kossow. Noes: None. Excused: Commissioner Lopez. KAUKA: Chair, thank you. There are eight ayes. 86 KOSSOW: And I apologize. If you can mark for Mr. Lopez, excused. KAUKA: Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you. Is there anything else for as far as announcements goes? LUL Yes. KOSSOW: Okay. Ms. Lui, go ahead. LUL Just that there is a State redistricting meeting. I believe it is this Thursday at 5:00. And I think it would be interesting for us to attend that, as well as you know, our civic duty. Thank you. KOSSOW: Thank you, Ms. Lui. I think there isI just want to make sure that when we do speak in those meetings, that we're not breaking any Sunshine by having more than two commissioners there. So,just a word of caution. LUL Wait a minute. Can I ask a question on that? I mean this about the State districts, not the County. So, why would the Sunshine ? We would just be there as private citizens. KOSSOW: Private citizens, yeah. Just clarifying and making the observation. Okay. So, the next meeting is going to be on December 9h at 9:00 a.m. And other than that, I don't see anything else. ADJOURNMENT KOSSOW: Is there a motion to adjourn? HUSTACE: So moved. KOSSOW: Motioned by Mr. Hustace. YOSHINA: Second. KOSSOW: Seconded by Mr. Yoshina. All in favor say aye. VARIOUS COMMISSIONERS AT ONCE: Aye. KOSSOW: Any opposed, no. (No response.) Motion carries. We are adjourned at 4:49 p.m. Thank you all very much. I appreciate the long day. Thank you, guys. Aloha! 87 Respectfully Submitted, %--- Nicole Bello, support staff to the Commission a� 88