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Home My WebLink About2006-02-03 TOnoloa PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT FEBRUARY 3, 2005 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of ONO LOA ORCHARDS, LLC (SPP-05-021)was called to order at 1:43 p.m. in the County Building, Councilroom - Room 201, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Chairman C. Kimo Alameda presiding. PRESENT:C. Kimo AlamedaABSENT & EXCUSED: Fred Galdones Hannah SpringerJeffrey McCall Bill Graham Andrew Iwashita Allen Salavea Rene Siracusa Rodney Watanabe Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel NormanHayashi,PlanningProgramManager Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And 3 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: ONO LOA ORCHARDS, LLC (SPP 05-021) Special Permit to establish a fruit stand, retail concession and certified kitchen on 0.5 acre of land situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located along the northwest side of the Hawaii Belt Road (Highway 11), approximately 320 feet northeast of the Highway 11 - Kukui Camp Road intersection, Olaa Reservation Lots, Puna, Hawaii, TMK: 1-7-13: portion of 106. ALAMEDA:Hawaii County Planning Commission will come back in order. Were looking at Agenda Item No. 3, new business. Applicant: Ono Loa Orchards, LLC (SPP 05-021), Special Permit to establish a fruit stand, retail concession and certified kitchen on 0.5 acre of land situated in the State Land Use Agricultural District. Staff? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may direct your attention to the location map on the board, the area of this application is within the Puna district of Hawaii. More specifically, its near Kurtistown. Were looking at, on the lower side of the map, were looking at the Volcano Highway running in a north-south direction. This particular line running perpendicular to the Volcano Highway is Kukui Camp Road and Mamalahoa Highway. The area of the application is identified in the orange dot. You might recall in the past that there has been a fruit stand in operation on this particular parcel as youre heading towards the Volcano direction, just in this same area by Kukui Camp Road. EXHIBIT C Looking at the plot plan submitted by the applicant, this is an overall site plan. It identifies the different areas on the property that agricultural uses are either occurring now or will be occurring in the future. This little purple area and blue area is identified as the project site, which is in a larger detail in this area. The applicant will be, is proposing access from the highway which they do have a commercial driveway access permit from the Department of Transportation. Theres identified parking. The area for the retail concession area and fruit stand and certified kitchen is identified in purple. The applicant in this case, Ono Loa Orchards LLC, is requesting a special permit for a fruit stand, retail concession, and certified kitchen on .5 acre of land of a 28.6 acre parcel. Since the background and recommendation have been passed out to the Commissioners, we have received several letters from the applicant in response to agency comments. Additionally, the Planning Director would like to make two changes to the conditions. One new, oneaddedconditionandonechangetoanexistingcondition.IfIcandrawyourattentiontothe conditions, on page 7 of the recommendation, Im sorry on page 6, Condition No. 4, wed like to add in on the last line it says Commercial tours of the property is not permitted. Wed also like to add the phrase commercial tours and commercial tour busses are not allowed on the property, are not permitted. So it would read commercial tours of the property is not permitted and commercial tour busses are not allowed on the property. And then, additionally, based on comments from the Department of Transportation, we would like to add a new condition No. 8, all conditions after that will be renumbered. The new Condition No. 8 will state the existing gate within the property and setback, or gates, the existing gate(s), so it will be either singular or plural if the applicant chooses more than one gate, within the property and setbacks shall be relocated 40 feet from the shoulder of Highway 11. So at this point it will address the concerns of the Department of Transportation regarding vehicles that access the property and find that the gate is closed, that they will be able to come back onto the highway safely. The Planning Director is recommending that this application be approved by the Planning Commission. Are there any questions? ALAMEDA:I have one, Mr. Darrow. Going back to that adding the bus, you know, the commercial busses, Im just curious, how come you guys wanted to get real specific on that one? Cause in my mind Im thinking commercial tours, I mean, cannot do a tour without a bus or -. th DARROW:Yeah, let me bring your attention to the January 4 comment letter from the Department of Transportation. More specifically Comment No. 3 -. th SIRACUSA:YoumeanJanuary4? DARROW:Correct.Thiswasacommentletterreceivedafterthebackgroundand recommendation had been passed out. It states that the applicant shall construct right-turn acceleration and deceleration lanes with . widenedshouldersandappropriatedrivewayturningradiustoaccommodatetourbustrafficSo 2EXHIBIT C with the allowance of tour busses onto the property the applicants would be required to do extensive improvements onto the highway, which would definitely probably be a deal-breaker for this. They wouldnt be able to do these types of improvements. It would be too costly. So rather than requiring the improvements we were just going to not allow the tours and the tour busses on the property. ALAMEDA:I see that. Thank you for explaining. Any other questions for our staff? Commissioner Graham. GRAHAM:Jeff, I just want to verify in your Condition 3 about what the sale is limited to. Am I correct that this is scaled back a good bit from what the applicant was hoping to sell on the property? DARROW:It appears, this was a condition added by the Planning Director and its specificthatthefruitstandshallbelimitedtotheagriculturalproductsgrownonisland.Idont know if there were going to be any off-island items. So it doesnt look like its going to limit the applicants from what they previously had proposed, although it is going to keep them restricted to items grown and produced on the island. GRAHAM:So, I guess, Im wondering in the application it seems like there was a bunch of additional things as well, like, you know, prepared meals or something like that. Is that still allowed or is this saying none of thats allowed except for the fruit and agricultural products? YUEN:It says limited to the sale of agricultural products grown on-island and the retail concession shall be limited to food products processed on-island and agricultural products grown on-island only. And thats to keep this from being a general grocery store or a general produce store. Because otherwise you could bring in watermelons from Molokai, cabbages from Honolulu, and sell them. This is meant, they need a special permit to sell more than the -. If they want to sell stuff thats only grown on their property they dont need a special permit. Thats allowed under the State Land Use Law. They wanted to sell other agricultural products; and the representation was on-island. If you want to sell agricultural products from everywhere then what you have is a grocery store or a produce market; and we wouldnt support it. Its a little different than a roadside stand concept. And then the sale of processed products, that would be processed on-island. You could make pies with flour and things that are grown off-island, but it would have to be a pie that was baked on-island, for example. GRAHAM:Thats what I kind of understood. And the reason I came up with my questions I think was when I read Condition 3 it says The fruit stand, and then it goes on describing the fruit stand. But when we look at the very first page for the permit, the request is to establish a fruit stand and retail concession. So are we limiting the fruit stand but not the retail concession, or is that Condition 3 sort of meant to apply to the whole thing? This is my question. Do you hear what Im trying to say? ALAMEDA:Mr. Director. 3EXHIBIT C YUEN:Well, the first sentence is a general statement of whats allowed. It just describes the general nature of the use; and then Condition 3 is a limitation to the fruit stand being Ag products grown on-island; and then the retail concession, which is a separate, they look at it as a separate part of the property with a little structure where they have a retail concession. And that would have, you could also sell Ag products there but all grown on-island, but also Ag products processed on-island. GRAHAM:Thank you. Im sorry, I wasnt reading it correctly, so -. ALAMEDA:Other questions for staff before we ask the applicant to come forward? IWASHITA:I -. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA:Maybe its just me, but if, you know that language thats being added to barcommercialtourbussesfromthisproject,itseemstomethatthatbyitselftakescareofthe concern brought up by the Department of Transportation, that the existing sentence, commercial tours of the property is not permitted, is sort of superfluous. If youre not, if you cant get the busses there, you cant get the tourists. ALAMEDA:Thats what I was thinking unless something like a 15-passenger van or, you know, that was -. IWASHITA:Well, this is any bus, right? Basically, it doesnt say the size of the bus. So theres no busses going to be allowed on this property, right? DARROW:Well, theres a, when you, you have whats called a bus and then you have a van. And so I dont think this condition is going to limit them from having a passenger van. But I could be mistaken on that but I think that this would not allow a commercial bus. IWASHITA:Commercial tour bus as opposed my going down to Avis and renting a 13- passenger van filling up with my basketball team and going to buy bananas on my way? DARROW:Right, right. Theres quite a number of tour busses that go up and down this highway going up to the Volcano and they tend to stop at some of these sites. Hirano Store is a real good example. They stop right in front of the store and they all bail out and go into there. And so they dont want to see this occur, happening here, either pulling in or even stopping out on the highway and coming onto the property. IWASHITA:Oh, I see. So, okay, so one is saying the tour busses are not allowed on the property, and the other is saying you cannot stop across the street or out on the shoulder and have those people walk in? DARROW:I think the other implication was that in the application the applicant had revised the application from when it was first submitted. In the original application they had made reference to having tours on the property; and it appeared that that portion, a portion of that 4EXHIBIT C was missed in the revision. And so the Department of Transportation picked up on that thinking that there were going to be commercial tours on the property as well as these tour busses. And I think what were trying to do is just prevent both of them occurring. But, again, I think, you know, you made a good point that if we prevent commercial tour busses from coming on there its probably not going to allow commercial tours at the same time. ALAMEDA:Thank you. IWASHITA:Well, I think that this thing, the example about the busses not, you know, just stopping, right, the driver says, well, we cant go in, but Im stopping here and you can walk in; and thats what is also being attempted to be prevented, right? Is that right? DARROW:Yes, definitely. IWASHITA:Okay.Okay,so,okay,thenImsatisfiedthelanguageshouldbeasyou suggested. ALAMEDA:Im sorry, but -. Thank you, Commissioner Iwashita. That did raise a question for me though. What defines commercial? Because, going back to you, if you have one of those 15-passenger basketball team to just stop and go visit, thats not commercial, is it? DARROW:Well, theyre there for, I mean, it would be my understanding that theyre there for commercial purposes, to buy something or to take a tour of the property for pay. ALAMEDA:And that condition wouldnt exclude that from happening or it would? DARROW:Yeah. ALAMEDA:So who can -? DARROW:No commercial tours. ALAMEDA:So who can -? DARROW:I mean, if you wanted to go on site and take a tour of the property, I dont think thats going to prevent you; but if theyre going to charge for tours -. ALAMEDA:Then it makes it commercial. DARROW:Yes, then thats prohibited. ALAMEDA:So thats really what makes it commercial then -? DARROW:Correct. 5EXHIBIT C ALAMEDA:Is when the applicant charges. Butif people like just get together and carpool and say, hey, lets go visit this fruit stand, thats not commercial, right, cause theyre not charging? Correct? DARROW:Right. ALAMEDA:Okay, I got it clear now. All right, any other questions for our staff before we ask the applicant to come forward? Seeing none, will the applicant or its representative please step forward. All right, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? DAVID DAVIS:Yes, I do. DANIEL DAVIS:Yes. ALAMEDA:Thank you. And thank you for your patience, and especially listening to usbabbleaboutwhatscommercialandwhatsnot.Didyougetachancetoreadthe recommendations from the Department and all the conditions? DAVID DAVIS:Yes, we have; and I think this is a very reasonable request for what our purposes are in restricting the large, the large commercial tour busses, as to what I understand youre talking about. Cause if Arnotts wants to bring up 16 people in a passenger van or something like that we would hope to be able to serve them, but not with the commercial tour. ALAMEDA:All right. DAVID DAVIS:The whole idea of commercial tours came in when we were thinking about being in support of the States initiative to further agri-tourism, but its really not an important objective to us to do that. So well gladly give that up. ALAMEDA:Okay. Oh, Im sorry, I didnt ask you to identify yourself for the record, and your address. I m sorry. DAVID DAVIS:David P. Davis at 4011 Ahuahu Place in Kurtistown. ALAMEDA:Okay, could you identify yourself, too. DANIEL DAVIS:Daniel Davis at 17-0914 Volcano Highway, right next door. ALAMEDA:Thank you. All right. Mr. Davis, is there anything else youd like to add regarding the Departments conditions? DAVID DAVIS:No. The gate, repositioning the gate will be, well have to figure that out, I guess, but it seems pretty feasible to be able to do that. We just put in six pillars in front of the actually little fruit stand. So well have to find a way to move that gate back without tearing those down. But I think thats not going to be a problem. 6EXHIBIT C ALAMEDA:Mr. Davis, how far is thegate from the, current gate from the shoulder of Highway 11? DAVID DAVIS:I think its 20 feet. Im not sure exactly where the, where were talking where it starts. I guess its, right at the edge of the pavement to the gate is 20 feet. And there are cars that actually do u-turns in there right now. But it would be safer if it was further back, yeah. ALAMEDA:Yeah. Any other thoughts or comments before I ask the Commissioners if they have any questions? How about, do you have any -? DANIEL DAVIS:My concern was just the -. I think you answered my questions about commercial tours and also what constitutes a commercial tour bus. And my understanding its like the 60 passenger bus, things like that, these big gigantic things that go on the highway. There really isnt even a way to serve such a large size of people at that space, so thats fine. Thatwasallmyconcern. ALAMEDA:Okay. DAVIDDAVIS:Theproductsbeingsoldasfarason-islandIthinktheresadiversityof enough things that we can make and process that wont be a problem. ALAMEDA:Okay, all right. Fellow Commissioners? Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yes. Im wondering if youre going to have EBT capability. DANIEL DAVIS:I would like to, especially for all of the fruits and things that will be there that well be selling, cause that will help serve a population there and a market there. SIRACUSA:Cause if you did, you would be serving local population as well as looking at tourists, and that would be good. DANIEL DAVIS:Yeah. I think actually a good part of the fruit stands market will be the local population actually. ALAMEDA:Question -? Thank you, Commissioner Siracusa, for asking that. Other questions? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Theres discussion of a cemetery on the property. Is that a cemetery where people come and visit and all that? DANIEL DAVIS:There are, I think, six sites that are still maintained that are next to Kukui Camp Road. And the fruit stand and the farm operations in no way interfere with whats left of that cemetery. Its my understanding that quite a bit of it was removed when a County water tank was installed; and quite a few of the graves are unmaintained now and just off to the side of the property. But since that, theres an easement there and the public is allowed to go there any time and visit those graves. And Im not going to, the first thing, I will not be restricting access to that. 7EXHIBIT C GRAHAM:Okay. So its a separate access actuallycoming into that? DANIEL DAVIS:Yes. DAVID DAVIS:Yeah. Its on Kukui Camp Road. Its off Kukui Camp Road and it doesnt seem like its an active cemetery, except for about three graves there. DANIEL DAVIS:Yeah, if you look on the plot plan there at thebottom, you can see the cemetery easement and, the one right next to the road there. There is still kind of a carport there that people can pull into. But its, all of its not maintained very well. DAVID DAVIS:And theres a sign that says this cemetery has been relocated to -. DANIELDAVIS:Anotherplace. DAVIDDAVIS:Anothermemorialparkhere.Butapparentlyitwasinterruptedinthe process and it didnt, wasnt completely relocated. GRAHAM:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:So youre saying that the people dont come and visit that cemetery? DAVID DAVIS:Well, I couldnt say that. Ive never seen anyone. There are a few grave sites right out in front that the weeds are, you know, taken back. But, apparently, someone maintains those graves. SIRACUSA:Were any descendants or family members of those who were buried there notified about your project? DAVID DAVIS:I dont believe so. DANIEL DAVIS:Everything is in Japanese on the cemetery stones and things. And Ive actually not seen anyone there but I can see evidence that someone up front is keeping the grass trimmed on a few of the graves. SIRACUSA:Pardon me? DANIEL DAVIS:I can see that a few of the graves up front are being maintained or were last time I checked. But I dont have any way to contact who is there. I was told that when the County went to relocate the graves, that the ones that were left were the ones they could not contact the relatives of. 8EXHIBIT C DAVID DAVIS:There is a line of bamboo and some palm trees that separate our areas from this. So theres just no likelihood that we would be interfering. I mean I dont know how we could interfere with the cemetery. SIRACUSA:The reason Im asking about this is because we had a recent application on the Kona side for a special permit to do a commercial project on a parcel where there was a cemetery. And I feel that at least, you know, some attempt should be made to, if someone is maintaining at least some of those graves, even if you put a note or something on the graves saying please contact or if its a Japanese cemetery maybe the Puna Hongwanji would have some information, so that you should be able to contact the descendents and find out if theres any objections, then I would really feel more comfortable about this. Cause I like your proposal but I would feel a lot more comfortable about it if I know that we dotted all our is and crossed our ts as far as cultural sensibilities go. ALAMEDA:Okay,pointnoted.OtherCommissioners?CanIask,Mr.Darrow,how far are the graves from the site? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the applicant has stated there is a barrier in between, I believe its large trees and bamboo, correct -. DAVID DAVIS:Yeah, thats it, a line -. DARROW:That separates the project site. And you might be able to see that in the pictures that, it would be in the picture with the green house, to the left of the green house there should be some trees there. So this particular site is going to be closer to Kukui Camp Road. In fact, I think the grave sites are pretty close to the road itself. So the whole actual property does not contain grave sites, just a small portion of it. And it appears that, as the applicants have stated, that at the time that the water tank site was put in it looks like they had tried to make attempts to get a hold of these people. Correct? DAVID DAVIS:Yes. Let me just point out -. DARROW:What sort of distance would you say? DAVID DAVIS:Its about 200 feet between, about 200 feet between the bamboo thats growing in this area right here. Okay, right, theres a line of bamboo that grows here, then theres a bunch of palm trees right there. The existing grave sites that appear to be somewhat still maintained, theyre right up here in the corner. Theres a little visiting house, I guess, thats pretty dilapidated, not used, right there. Then theres a little access where you can come off Kukui Camp Road. So theres about, Id say maybe half a dozen grave sites right in that area. So its really, you know, a long ways away from this. And I cant, personally I dont see how there could be much interaction there. DANIEL DAVIS:But I will leave notes definitely on, the next time -. DAVID DAVIS:Or we can put an ad in the paper or something like that. 9EXHIBIT C DANIEL DAVIS:Yeah, that would work. ALAMEDA:Thanks for giving us some more, better visual, how far the graves are from the actual site. Other Commissioners? Okay, you may be seated. Theres no public testimony. So, Fellow Commissioners, would you like to make a motion and then have some discussion on it? Or do you need more information in order to make a motion? Commissioner Salavea? SALAVEA:I move that the application for Special Permit SP 05-021 be approved based on the Planning Directors recommendation and proposed conditions -. SPRINGER:Second. SALAVEA:As amended. ALAMEDA:MotionmadebyCommissionerSalavea,secondedbyCommissioner Springer, to go ahead and move forward on this application with the recommendations made by the Department. Is there a discussion? Seeing none, staff? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Salavea? SALAVEA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Springer? SPRINGER:Yes. DARROW:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Aye. DARROW:And Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA:Aye. DARROW:The motion passes seven to zero. 10EXHIBIT C ALAMEDA:Thank you. Congratulations. You will be informed in writing of this decision. DAVID DAVIS:Thank you. The discussion ended at 2:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura East Hawaii Secretary 11EXHIBIT C