HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-02-03 TPEARLSExhibitA
WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
FEBRUARY 3, 2011
PEARL BAKERY (SPP 10-111)
A regularly advertised hearing on the application of
was called to order at 9:16a.m. in the County of Hawai‘i, Aupuni Center Conference Room,
101Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i, with Chairman Zendo Kern presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Zendo Kern, Dean Au, Takashi Domingo, Wallace Ishibashi,
and Stephen Ono
STAFF PRESENT: Julie Mecklenburg (Deputy Corporation Counsel), BJ Leithead Todd
(Planning Director), Maija Cottle (Staff Planner), and Jeff Darrow (Staff Planner).
And 19 people from the public in attendance.
ABSENT AND EXCUSED: Rell Woodward
APPLICANT: PEARL BAKERY (SPP 10-111)
Application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a commercial kitchen, bakery, café
and retail sales within an existing 2,000 square foot agricultural processing warehouse and
related improvements on approximately 32,670 square feet of land situated on a 50.779-acre
parcel situated in the County’s Agricultural-zoned district. The project site is located
approximately 6,000 feet southwest of the town of Mountain View along the southeast side of
Highway 11 (Volcano Highway) near its intersection with Peck Road, portion of Ola‘a
Reservation Lots, Puna, Hawai‘i, TMK: 1-8-004: Portion of 23.
KERN: Next applicant is Pearl Bakery, SPP 10-111, Application for a Special Permit to allow
the establishment of a commercial kitchen, bakery, café and retail sales within an existing 2,000
square foot agricultural processing warehouse. Maija.
COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, everyone.
COMMISSIONERS: Good morning.
COTTLE: If I can direct your attention to the screen. Our next application is a special permit
request. The applicant is Pearl’s Bakery, and the subject property is located in the Puna district.
You can see the property outlined in black in the middle of the slide, and Volcano Highway
running generally in an east-west direction.
The property is zoned Agricultural 5 acres which is shown in the light green, as well as most of
the properties around it. And just to the east of the property, these areas shown in dark green, are
zoned Agricultural 20 acres.
This is the General Plan designation for the property. You can see light green in most of the
surrounding area, which stands for Important Agricultural lands. There’s also along the highway
pieces of property on both sides that are in the Conservation designation because Volcano, this
portion of Volcano Highway is scenic.
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EXHIBIT A
This is an aerial photo of the property. And we don’t have the whole lot shown because it
extends quite far to the south. But you can see the property outlined in red. Again, Volcano
Highway is on the northern edge of the property. The special permit area would actually be in
this general area here. And you can see an existing Agricultural processing building in the
middle here, as well as some green houses towards the back of the lot.
The applicants are proposing to establish a commercial kitchen, bakery and café, as well as retail
sales within the existing 2000-square foot Ag processing warehouse, and related improvements,
on about 32,000 square feet of land in a portion of the approximately 50-acre parcel.
The commercial kitchen would be used as a bakery and to prepare other goods such as
sandwiches, desserts, nonalcoholic drinks, honey, jams, jellies, and lunch related snacks. These
items will be sold at the site for customers to take outor eat at picnic tables on the lawn area near
the building.
And the baked goods will also be provided to J. Hara Store and Hirano Store for sale to their
customers. Hours of operation for the commercial kitchen would be 4:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Monday through Saturday, as well as occasional evening use to accommodate special orders and
use of the kitchen by others. And the retail component of the request would operate between
7 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday. The applicant is proposing one to three
employees. And, of course, parking will be provided on site.
This is a site plan of the special permit area. Again, you can see the permit area is in the very
front of the property near the Highway. And this is a more close-up view. You have the
driveway off of the Volcano Highway, and the existing Ag processing building with the
commercial kitchen area in the front portion here. And then there’s a lawn area over on this side,
and over here is some lawn which is where the picnic tables would likely be, and then the
parking area to the, on the west side of the lot.
This is a floor plan of the building. The applicant already actually has a commercial kitchen in
the structure. It’s about 800 square feet in size; and you can see that here. There are some
coolers, refrigeration coolers, here and here. And then the kitchen facility is over here. And then
the majority of the building is just used for storage.
And this is a picture of the building. You can see the driveway off of the highway. It’s a
graveled driveway. There’s a gate; and then the parking area would be over here, and the grassy
lawn in front here. And this is a view of the inside of the building, the kitchen area. There’s, as I
mentioned before, the coolers, the kitchen facility; and there’s a bar area that extends out here in
the front.
The Planning Director is recommending that the special permit request be denied; and there are
two main reasons. One is that these proposed uses are similar to the definition of food
manufacturing and bakery in the Zoning Code; and these types of uses are normally allowed only
in the Light Industrial and Commercial zoned districts. So kind of keeping that in mind that
they’re Light Industrial and Commercial land uses. The General Plan designation for the
property is Important Ag Land, and so these types of uses normally don’t belong on Important
Agricultural Land. And, in fact, the General Plan specifically says that they want to see bakeries,
which are serviced type Industrial uses, next to population centers and within community
centers. And that kind of goes in line with the CDP, the Community Development Plan, for
Puna, which also wants to see these types of Commercial and Light Industrial uses within the
village and town centers, rather than scattered out, outside of the town centers. The Puna CDP
also has a specific provision that says that they don’t want to see Industrial type uses having
direct access on to a highway. And the main reason for that is, you know, you have your
delivery trucks pulling in and out of the highway that’s usually a high-speed road; and they want
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EXHIBIT A
to maintain that efficiency of the highway. So those are our reasons for recommending denial.
Are there any questions?
KERN: Any questions for staff? Seeing none, thank you, Maija. Could we please have the
applicant come forward, and/or their representative. Good morning. I’ll swear you all in at the
same time. Will you all raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the, to affirm to tell the truth
today before the Windward Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
KERN: I do, okay. And now whoever begins, please, name and address, and go ahead.
MELROSE: Good. Good morning, Jeff Melrose, 1405 Wainuenue Avenue, Hilo. You know,
what I’d like to do is I’d like to kind of let the applicant talk for themselves and kind of give you
the saga of this piece of property, because there’s a really important saga to tell in it, and then to
come back and address some of the specifics in the planning recommendations. So I’d just like
Tom Robeson to explain his, you know, the history of their efforts on this property over the
years.
KERN: If you would, Mr. Robeson, name and address before you begin. Thank you.
T. ROBESON: My name is Thomas Robeson. My address is 11-3039 Kahauale‘a Road,
Volcano. Bear with me, I’m a little bit nervous. This is the culmination of 2 ½ years of effort in
trying to put this together. We bought the property in July 2 ½ years ago. It was previously
Kilauea Coffee Company. They processed coffee in that warehouse. They had retail sales of
both processed coffee and coffee to drink. Another use that they used it for between that and the
saw tool in the back was to process mac nuts, crack and process mac nuts. When we bought the
property we primarily looked at it for Ag. We needed additional pasture land. The 50 acres in
the back provided ample grass for, you know, we were raising sheep, pigs, cows, chickens,
which we still do on the property. The idea was that that building in the front that already had a
retail component to it for coffee would fit very well for my wife; and she’s a baker.
So we decided to purchase the property and look at putting a bakery in the existing space. We
had green houses, two 96-foot green houses, on the back end of the property that we thought
would work very well to grow product and then utilize that product that was grown in the bakery.
So not being familiar with how things are supposed to operate and how you get things done, our
first stop was, well, we were establishing a food, you know, type of organization, we went to the
Health Department. And we asked the Health Department inspector to come up, sit down at the
property with us, walk through everything that needed to be done, actually sketched out on a
napkin the layout that you see up on the board before you. We laid out exactly what we were
trying to do and what we wanted to do in there. He laid out exactly what we needed to have, and
then made recommendations. One of the things that he came up with is to bake goods you don’t
really need a hood; but if you put a hood in then I’ll approve you to do other things if you decide
you want to change, you know, things in the future. So we went ahead with applying for a
building permit, and the building permit was Pearl’s Bakery, Retail Bakery, said on it. We went
through that process. We stepped through, going through Health, Police, Fire, Building and
Planning. And everything was signed, you know, as we submitted these plans. And once the
plans were submitted and approved by all the different organizations werequired to get a
building permit, we went forwarded and installed the sinks, the ovens, the hood, all the things
that the Health Department recommended, no changes to the outside of the structure. Everything
was done internally right in that existing room that on the plans was a lunch room, and that’s
where the retail sales and coffee was done previously.
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That process took close to a year and a half to get through the building permit, get through the
construction, get the equipment, get it installed, get through the final; and it was challenging. It
was very challenging. And we’ve invested, you know, in the kitchen alone, you know, close to
$125,000 in getting this set up. And when we received the final sign-off on the building permit,
we went back to the Health Department; and they came up and they inspected, and they said
you’re good to go. So with that in mind, we opened up for three days.
And we asked the local community to come in and tell us what do you want to see here, what
exactly would you like to have at a local bakery that’s going to provide you with a cup of coffee
on the way to work in the morning, a piece of coffee cake, you know, cupcakes, cookies, those
kind of things, made fresh, made with local products. And it went very well. I mean we got a lot
of good community input in those three days, you know, particularly bread. You know, we
never thought about doing bread, but everybody was asking. I mean, you can’t get a loaf of good
fresh homemade, you know, without preservatives, enrichments, or anything else. So we added
that to what we were looking at doing.
Then we had an inspector come up on the end of the third day from Planning, Zoning, asking us,
well, what are you doing? And we opened up the plans and we walked into the building and,
you know, we were pretty proud. I mean it was a year and a half’sworth of work. And we
showed him, you know, here’s what we’re trying to accomplish here, is what we’re planning, is
what we’re doing. And he says, you know, we’ve had a complaint; and the complaint was that,
you know, another business within that area had to go through the process of special permit to do
a similar type of business. And now you’re open and you have it. And I said, well, that’s
correct; but I’ve, you know, I’ve got my plans and they’re all signed and Planning and everybody
signed off. I thought, you know -. And he says, well, you really need to go that route, you need
to go through the special permit process. That’s the right way of doing this. Even though you’re
going to use items from your farm, your Ag, within what you’re doing, you are also going to
provide products that are made on other farms or using, you know, products that are. So we
stopped. That was our last day. We closed and we started this process, going through the special
use.
The general idea, I mean, when we started going through this, you know, we had three Ag
employees, we were moving along pretty well. To keep a 50-acre farm viable in this district to
be able to try and get a way to get your product to market and keep employees employed and
things going, you know, we felt it was very important to have that retail component to it. We
tried a lot of different methods, farmers markets. But when you’re farming and you’re doing Ag,
and you’ve got to take a day out, stop what you’re doing and go sit at a market and try and retail
your product there, and then the fees and the cost and things involved in that, we’ve seen enough
local farmers, we’ve talked to enough local people when we opened up for those three days that
we wanted to add a retail outlet for other produce, things that we didn’t produce but other local
farmers did. And then we wanted to open up the commercial kitchen to other farmers to be able
to have the opportunity to process their product and get more value in their local product, and
then provide that to the local community. So over the last year or so as we pulled this
application together we’ve tried to get a pretty good clear picture of what we want to do and be
able to try and convey that. It’s to be a local community place that somebody on their way to or
from work can get a cup of coffee, a piece of coffee cake that isn’t going to cost them, you know,
an arm and leg, that local producers, you know, and we’ve had them. We’ve had them in there
when we were opened, coffee producers, honey, we had orchids in there from a grower up off the
road that we live on. We’re not trying to do a restaurant, I mean, by any stretch. We’re just a,
you know, a small community center bakery that people can come to and get product and to
make our farm, make the Ag part of it viable.
Now we’ve had good support from our neighbors, some of which are here. There have been
some letters that were in about noise and, you know, concerns about those aspects. We have
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been able to work with that neighbor very well. And we’re very, I mean, we understand those
concerns and we recognize them and we worked with him to make sure. Now the concern is
mainly on the aspect what happens if the property is sold and somebody else doesn’t have that.
So, you know, the condition of the time and quiet time and everything else is, is, I mean, exactly
what we would be looking for. You know, the previous Ag operation on that property cracking
mac nuts all night kept him, I mean, that’s why he’s concerned; and I get it. You know, I
wouldn’t want that, you know, 100 yards from my house either. But the nature of what we are
applying to do is generally quiet to begin with. We don’t have delivery trucks going in and out.
We only deliver to two companies, Hirano and J. Hara. And with J. Hara we do maybe 40
loaves a week. It fits in the back of the station wagon and you take it down and, you know. But
having the retail component there somebody can stop by there, get a loaf of bread, get, you
know, that kind of product.
We also received an amazing letter, actually, from Constance Haskell. She came by during the
three days that we were opened and has stopped by since. And I don’t know her. I mean she’s
just a local community person that stopped in while we were there. But she set the bar pretty
high in the letter that she sent. And, you know, we’re looking forward to trying to live up to the
expectations that were set in that letter.
KERN: Mr. Melrose?
MELROSE: Thank you. And I think you do have Mrs. Haskell’s letter. It was circulated to you
this morning. We thought it had already been submitted, but you do have it. So thank you.
I think what I, just from my professional view working with the Robesons is these are very
sincere people. They started out trying to do what they, you know, to do a small thing and to do
it, you know, connected to the community, and to find a way to do a small business that made
their agricultural produce more valuable, and to serve the community. And I think it’s a very
genuine intention. And they went through this process on the up and up, clear, talking to as
many people as they could, and were surprised by some of the pieces they didn’t know about.
So, you know, they’re in a little deep right now in terms of this process. But I think ultimately
what they’re talking about doing is so typically Puna way, in my view, is that the small business
trying to serve the community right around it and be available to help other people do business in
that region. It’s kind of a characteristic, I think of, Rural Hawai‘i generally but certainly Puna
generally, Puna more specifically.
I want to talk a little about some of the issues that were raised by the Planning Department; and I
think they’re fair issues if you don’t get caught up on the semantics, I think maybe a little
semantically caught up. I think the notion that the bakery by its nature is only allowed in an
Industrial and Light Industrial zone is really the vision of a bakery which is like Loves Bakery or
something that’s really putting out large numbers of, large amounts of bread. This bakery is no
bigger than Puff City in the middle of Downtown or small, you know, it has got two or three
ovens is all it has got. So it isn’t a delivery product kind of a Light Industrial use. So to me
there’s a, to rely on the notion that there’s, that it is, call it in some form an Industrial use,to me,
is just being caught up in the semantics of the Zoning Code, which I think we would all probably
identify as having limitations to it in termsof the way it lists allowable uses.
The Puna Community Development Plan does try to concentrate uses, in many cases yet to be
developed, yet to be reasonably identified but yet to be developed cores. On the Volcano
Highway, however, is about 13 miles between what is Mt. View and what is Volcano. And this
spot, you know, is not a, there is no piece in the plan that identifies new areas for that kind of use
along this stretch of road. So, you know, traffic, I guess -.
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I want to talk a little bit about precedence in this process. I think there are nine special permits
along that coast, along this stretch of road between Volcano and Mt. View, maybe a little farther
down from Mt. View, that include a small group of businesses all that serve local uses -- Hirano
Store, Akatsuka Orchids which is obviously a larger operation, I think there’s a small
convenience store near there that I’m not familiar with. There are several fruit stands or wood
sales, the De Luz operations. There’s an antique place, there are several churches. There is a
glass blowing operation. A little farther down is the Hilo Coffee Mill which does similar kinds
of activities and is part of, I think, what generated this concern initially. But they’re stretched
out over a 13-mile zone. And, you know, the notion that in somehow this is a new strip, you
know, the initiation of some kind of a strip development, as one of these letters mentions, is a
little, an overstatement of that.
They’ve really tried to follow all the rules; and I think they’ve been surprised by what they
found. They have a vision of a small integrated Ag food processing operation business with a
clear intent to serve the surrounding community and to enable others to process and move
forward in their small businesses as well. They’re really not requesting a restaurant but they are
wishing to have the opportunity to use their bread to make a sandwich or to sell sandwiches to
other places to be resold. But it allows people the chance to -. But it gives them just an
additional way to create a value ad for the product and producer.
So the Police have said that they have no problem with the traffic issues, so that the coming and
going from the road have not been identified as problematic. And from a neighbor’sperspective,
aside from the one raised of noise which is, I think, you’ll hear probably from that neighbor in a
little while, is absolutely a concern that they honor and respect.
So I think what we’re asking the Planning Commission for is the consideration of this in context
of some of the other decisions you’ve been making of late and to look at that as a small business
opportunity that is not really out of step or out of filter to the rest of what is going on in Puna.
And I appreciate the efforts that these folks have done. So with that, any questions? I’d be glad
to answer.
KERN: Any questions? Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Prior to describing the process that you went through,
in the very beginning I heard that there was some retail uses at that place.
T. ROBESON: There was.
DOMINGO: For how long?
T.ROBESON: I’m not sure. I know that at least a year or more.
DOMINGO: A year -.
T. ROBESON: Yeah.
MELROSE: You’re talking about the Kilauea Coffee activity?
T. ROBESON: Right, where the coffee was sold. They sold coffee out of that retail -.
DOMINGO: Would you be familiar if they were permitted to conduct that kind of a business at
that site?
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MELROSE: We understand not. I mean there’s nothing in the County records that show that
they had applied for such a use. So I think that was, but it was part of what I think attracted them
to the purchase of the property. Apparently the owner of that property passed away and the Trust
sold, was then they purchased the property understanding its history, seeing its use, and kind of
that’s where I think the genesis of the opportunity was. And then the, so then they went about
trying to get, do the right thing, and I think didn’t get the use permit parts of the requirement.
So -.
DOMINGO: So that retail use was terminated when you actually bought the property?
T. ROBESON: Correct.
DOMINGO: I see. Jeff, you mentioned that there are a number of uses along the highway
which is different from a residential use and agricultural use. Are those uses, when you look at
those uses, are they all permitted uses?
MELROSE: All the ones that I referred to were permits; and I did that by going through the
County’s record to identify other uses that were permitted. So all of those are permitted by a
special permit. And I would imagine there are also some additional ones that may not be
permitted, but I only referred to the ones that were permitted by a special permit.
DOMINGO: Are those uses that were permitted, are there any glaring differences between them
and what the applicants are proposing?
MELROSE: Glaring, I think the only one that would be of that, that would may be of a different
class would be Akatsuka, which really does attract the visitor population in a large bus activity.
Whereas a lot of the others are small neighborhood opportunities like Hirano Store, like, you
know Dan De Luz’s Wood and the little restaurant he has got, or I think, you know, the coffee
company may be by scale bigger. But generally this is very consistent with those and more
neighborhood based, I think.
DOMINGO: As far as I can recall the Hirano Store was there for many, many years.
MELROSE: Oh yeah, but they do have a special permit on it.
DOMINGO: What does the other, other businesses have been, have they been there for a long
time?
MELROSE: Let me, I would say, just look at my list again to see which ones have gotten
permits. I think the most recent of those permits is the roasting, the coffee roasting operation at
Hilo Coffee Mill. That’s the last one through and, they’re most recently through that process. I
think the Antique Store has probably been there a while. Dan De Luz when he got his operation
I’m thinking maybe in the last decade, maybe not much more than that. There’s a glass blowing
operation across the street from Akatsuka which is maybe three or four years old. And there was
a fruit stand right by Kukui Camp Road below the water tank that may be a decade old or so, but
they seem to be quieter now than they were initially, but they kind of quieted down. So I think
that there are -. They are I don’t think beyond -. The most recent one I believe was the Hilo
Coffee Company.
DOMINGO: When was that?
KERN: Staff?
COTTLE: Mr. Chair?
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KERN: Yes, Maija.
COTTLE: I think all of the seven or eight special permits that were approved along the
Highway in this area, the one big difference between them and this request is they were all
approved prior to the adoption of the Puna CDP.
DOMINGO: That -. Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Yes.
DOMINGO: You know, that is my primary concern. Had there not been any formal action
taken by the community and the County Council with regards to adopting a development plan for
the district, you know, I’d certainly find that this use as described is appropriate, an appropriate
one. I can find my way in saying yes. But now that we have, especially this Commission, we
pledged to uphold the community development plan, we made recommendations to the Council
for its adoption. And that’s where I’m between these issues in trying to find how such a use like
this can be justified in an area which is contrary to what the community development plan says.
But, you know, let’s go on with the hearing and see what happens, and we’ll take it from there.
MELROSE: Let me just kind of respond briefly to that.
KERN: Yes, please.
MELROSE: I mean I think, one is I’m, you know, there has been kind of a continual effort since
the adoption of the Puna CDP to, I don’t know what the word is, correct it, improve it, enhance
it, fill it in, do something that would make it a more representative plan or address some of the
issues that weren’t done when we first adopted it. So I understand its standing and I also
understand that it’s a document in motion. And I also, you know, know that this Commission
has really wrestled with this with another circumstance -- in Hawaiian Paradise Park recently a
small, you know, convenience store well outside of the designation area. But I think you made a
good judgment based on what it is you saw that circumstance to provide you. And that’s what
the Commission’s role is, is to take a look and understand what is the practical side of this, as
opposed to the strict application of the plan. So, I mean, that’s the discretion that the
Commission is, you know, granted. So I think there are multiple examples of that struggle
having been wrestled with you before; and this is just another one of those opportunities. So -.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Yes, Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: Is there anyone here this morning who had endorsed, anyone here who is a
bonafide representative from the community, any member of the action committee, or anyone
who sits with authority to make some kind of remarks with regards to support or to deny this
recommendation? Would you know of anyone who is here who’d be able to do that today?
Because I’d like to know. You know, they’re the ones, those individuals to which I refer to are
the ones who are key in formulating the plan.
MELROSE: I don’t know. We didn’t bring that -.
KERN: Yeah, I’m not sure how that protocol works. Maybe we could ask staff as to how that
works.
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COTTLE: I don’t know that there’s anybody here today from the action committee. One thing
that,if the Director thinks it’s appropriate, we could suggest is maybe deferring the application
and get input from the action committee on how they view this request. That’s an option.
DOMINGO: I think that’s good.
LEITHEAD TODD: That would be up to the Commission if they wanted to get the input from
the action committee. I think we’ve been wrestling with the CDP all along. And I think the
vision is to try and direct growth, and particularly retail and commercial growth, to specific
village centers. The difficulty I think is that Puna is a very, very large area. And if you think
about the fact that it’s larger than the island of Oahu -. Obviously when you’re making a plan
you don’t necessarily have every possible scenario in mind when you make it. And I do take to
Mr. Melrose’s comments about the fact that there is a long stretch between Mt. View and
Volcano where nothing has been planned. So it may be appropriate to have the action committee
weigh in.
But on the other hand the Commission does have the authority at this point to weigh the
information and make a judgment based on its evaluation of the application. And we’ve
wrestled -. You know, I think the difficulty for some applicants has been, is that the Department
has taken a more perhaps restrictive approach in terms of interpreting the CDP than I think a lot
of people may have anticipated. So that most of our recommendations on special permits have
been negative, which have not necessarily been reflective of the people who live in the areas
surrounding the applications. As we have seen on the prior special permit, the actual residents of
a particular subdivision, the residents in a particular area, had actually come forward and said
that they preferred to get services now rather than wait for services to appear sometime in the
future in the village centers. And so sometimes I think we all feel a little caught in between a
rock and a hard place.
KERN: Thank you, Madam Director. Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: Yeah, Mr. Chairman, you know, I would like to say exactly that the Community
Development Plan is flawed, because essentially it’s supposed to be a representation of the
people who live in the community. Unfortunately issues such as these were not addressed in the
Community Development Plan with regards to considering and entertaining special permits.
Because the plan can say you have this whole area for agricultural use, but the State law also
says that you can, where there’s an unusual but reasonable use you can come in for a special
permit. And that’s what these people are doing. So, you know, there are two ways that you can
look at this application, and two very strong arguments as to what way you would want one to
go. And that’s where I’m standing right now.
I certainly would support later on a motion to defer this action so that the staff can really look at
it. The staff should look at it. And I think if the community would like to key in on this, you
know, there are ways that they can do it; and I think they should because this issue is important.
It would be precedent setting, to me, in a way because what we’re entertaining now is a proposal
that would contradict the Community Development Plan, not necessarily in a narrow sense but in
a very broad sense. So I think this is something that we should look at.
KERN: Very good. Thank you, Commissioner Domingo.
MELROSE: Can I add just a thought to that process?
KERN: Yes.
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MELROSE: And one is that I think that part of the concept of this is that it does link to Ag, that
they do run, they do have two 90-foot greenhouses that they will produce food and materials that
will be part of the bakery operations – pumpkins, you know, zucchinis for bread, things that are
right there--so that it is a link and consistent use of the agricultural land. It simply takes a small
piece of land that was already developed, they’re not developing new property, and utilizing it to
channel that kind of material out into the market place. So in a lot of ways it is a consistent
operation. I think the identification of new zones, concentrated properties where all uses are
allowed, I can understand the need to put those things into a centralized area. But in this case
you’re talking about avery specific kind of use and in a way that serves not only their agriculture
but others as well in the kitchen itself.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Can you give me one second.
DOMINGO: Okay.
KERN: Commissioner Ishibashi has been -, and Commissioner -.
DOMINGO: Okay, sure.
KERN: Actually I saw Commissioner Ono first a while back, then we’ll go to Commissioner
Ishibashi.
ONO: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
KERN: Yes.
ONO: I have several questions. One is a concern and the other is a letter of opposition, seems to
be a complaint. You mentioned that someone complained on the third day, and that was your
competitor. What’s the distance between your proposal and your competitor’s operation?
MELROSE: About 8 miles, 9 miles.
ONO: About 8 miles. Okay. And that individual has a similar program, kind of sales?
T. ROBESON: Yeah, they do. They process coffee and they do retail sales; and then they also
sell baked goods, sandwiches, those kinds of things.
ONO: I see, eight miles away?
T. ROBESON: Eight miles away.
ONO: Okay.
T. ROBESON: And then they do so under a special use permit, similar to what we’re applying
for.
ONO: I see, okay. The other question I have is you mentioned that your bakery produces or
sells about 40 loaves of bread to Hirano?
T. ROBESON: Actually to J. Hara.
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ONO: J. Hara, okay. I’m not a business person, but I need to ask -. You don’t anticipate selling
only 40 loaves of bread for the rest of your life? I mean, that’s, you’re hoping -.
T. ROBESON: No.
ONO: To expand, I’m sure.
T. ROBESON: And that’s why the retail component to this is so important to us. We’re not, we
don’t want to be a wholesale bakery providing bread. That’s consistent with what staff has said
about, you know, an industrial use. That’s not the point and purpose behind what we’re trying to
do. We’re trying to be a local, community based, you know, a place for the community in that
area to come get basic stuff that they want.
ONO: Okay. I guess in my lay concept, if someone offers you a possibility of selling 100 loaves
of bread, you’re not going to turn it down are you?
T. ROBESON: Well, think about that for just a minute. Let’s go back to the picture that was
upon the wall. We don’t have a conveyor baking system. We don’t have an industrial setup.
Everything that we do is done by hand; and she does it. You know, if you, baking 40 loaves of
bread is a good example because baking 40 loaves of bread takes her all day. You start at, you
know, 7:00, 7:30 in the morning, you know, she drops the boy off at school, she comes down,
she sets everything up; and it’s artisan, it’s a craft. It’s not, you know, where everything is
premixed and you dump it on to a conveyor and out comes bread at the end of this. So that
process, if I was going to do, you know, like you said, if somebody wanted 100 loaves, it would
mean,my maxed capacity for bread is about 40 loaves a day. So, you know, when you look at it
from the aspect of an industrial use or a commercial bakery that’s out, you know, with their
delivery trucks driving in and out and going, I don’t have the facility for it. I mean it’s just not
there. So -.
ONO: Yeah, well, that’s leading up to my -.
MELROSE: Can I just add briefly. Bread was not -.
ONO: Excuse me, let me finish. My third related question though is that you’re also offering a
request that other community groups could use your facilities beyond the -.
T. ROBESON: Uh huh.
ONO: And I guess my concern then is, you know, your neighbor is complaining, not
complaining, have a concern about time. And if you’re going to be opening up your facility to
other community groups it will probably be after your work day. So -.
T. ROBESON: Can I respond?
ONO: Sure.
T. ROBESON: Okay. We’ve already done that. I mean we’ve already opened it up. A good
example, we had a lady that contacted us that does rubs, spice rubs. But to mix those spices she
needs a certified kitchen. So she comes in and she mixes spices. It takes her all of a half an
hour. She doesn’t use the oven, she doesn’t use anything in there, other than she brings spices
into a clean area, mixes them, packages and takes them back out. That doesn’t -. So that’s the
type of uses that we’re talking about. And those are the kinds of things that, you know, coffee,
coffee needs to be packaged. If it’s going to be sold to somebody to either in whole bean or in
ground form, it needs to be packaged in a certified kitchen. Those are the types of functions.
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EXHIBIT A
ONO: I guess my concern is that your neighbor that’s having a concern that, you know, while
you’re doing your business, and assuming that it’s approved here, as you’re involved with your
business, someone comes and asks, for that individual you’re going to have, not you’re going to
have, it’s just, I guess it becomes natural that you would provide for that person’s needs. And so
the neighbor’s concern about hours beyond your work day -.
T. ROBESON: Right.
ONO: It just becomes natural for you to permit that, I think, as an individual that, you know -.
T. ROBESON: Okay.
ONO: That would help aperson with a concern for coffee, for example. So how can I feel
comfortable sitting on this side of the table know that, hey, sorry, you can’t work beyond “x” -.
T. ROBESON: Right.
ONO: Number of time. My neighbor is a farmer so he needs his sleep time, you know, that kind
of thing.
T. ROBESON: Sure.
ONO: So that’s my concern.
T. ROBESON: Two ways actually. First, we’ve had that request. You know, being that the
community kitchen right now is approved as commercial, we’ve had people request. We had a
specific request for somebody that wanted to bake specific items that we don’t; and they wanted
to utilize the kitchen from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. You know, like, can’t do that, you know. This just
doesn’t work. I mean, again, we’ve had a great working relationship with our neighbor, an
excellent working relationship with our neighbor. I’m not going to lose that over somebody to
come in and bake overnight.
The second way is set the condition. We’re asking you to set the condition. We’re asking you to
set the condition on the hours because, you’re right, you don’t know what’s going to happen in
the future. What happens if five years down the road, ten years down the road, we sell this
property and somebody else comes in that doesn’t have the same concern for community or
neighbors that we do? Set the condition now so that there’s no issue with that going forward.
ONO: One more question.
T. ROBESON: Yes.
ONO: With your statement just now, are you willing to look at our concern about delaying this
approval because you just threw that at us regarding the conditions, and we haven’t had time to
even look at that.
T. ROBESON: Well, actually the conditions, and I don’t mean to, you know, the conditions
were laid out in the application. I mean in the application we stated the hours that we wanted.
ONO: That I understand.
T. ROBESON: You know, and so since with that you know, we put those in there for that
neighbor. I mean we basically have one neighbor. And, you know, we run cattle, he runs cattle,
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EXHIBIT A
we work together. We share a fence line. We have the same problems. You know, we’re
fighting a dog issue coming in and killing livestock. We work together to try and do that. I want
that neighbor, you know, to stay the way it is. So that’s why we set the hours and the times in
there.
Back to your idea of delaying, I mean, I don’t have a choice in that matter. I mean, again, we
have fought this now and trying to get through this process for 2 ½ years. We’re pretty close to
the end of our rope. I mean, we’ve tried really hard to do everything the right way, to follow the
rules, do the things that we’re supposed to do. But so far it has cost, you know, three employees,
we’re not generating any tax revenue, other than 40 loaves of bread a week, which to give you an
idea, I mean, yeah, that’s $1.75 a loaf at wholesale price. It’s, you know, it’s rough. It’s really
rough. In today’s economy in what we’re trying to do, I mean, we can provide some jobs, some
revenue to the County and the community. We’ll provide a place, I mean, it’s -. But, again, it’s
in your hands. It’s your decision, that if you need that then, you know, that’s another process
that we weren’t aware of that we’ll go through.
KERN: Commissioner Ishibashi.
ISHIBASHI: Well, that was basically my same question that I had there. But I just had one
concern with the commercial kitchen. It’s going to be rented out, or you’re donating the time,
how does that work?
T.ROBESON: You know, we’ve had that question a couple of times. You know, the issue for
me is power and gas. You know, power is expensive. Right now just doing bread and leaving
just about everything off, most of the, we have one refrigerator running right now, one freezer,
and the power bill is still $500 something a month. The lady that came up with the spices, she’s
not using anything, so no. Why would I charge her? What I’m looking for from her is, hey, I’d
like to be able to sell your product here and maybe utilize some of your product here. That’s the
vision behind this, is a community-based organization. There are enough -. I mean we moved
here eight years ago. You used to be able to drive down the road into Hilo and along the side of
the road you could get just about anything. You can get avocados, you can get a cast net, you
could buy fish, you know; and that’s gone. But for a small place with a certain number of
products local farmers that are trying and struggling to make it work, they’d have a retail outlet
that they don’t have to go sit like in a market that they wouldn’t have to pay for. I mean we
don’t, you know, when we sold Kilauea Coffee out of there, we didn’t mark it up. I mean, that
was just a retail place for it. It drew customers for us, it gave customers for them. It gave them a
way to enhance their product. Now if somebody comes in there with the plan of, hey, I need
three hours every day from noon to three and that takes away from what we’re able to do, yeah,
we might have to look at how it’s going to be done. But, again, the vision behind it is
community based. I want them to be able to use it. It has been used for that in the past. I mean
Hilo Archers Club came in there. You know, they did a bunch of preparation work for a banquet
dinner. And, no, there’s no charge for that. There are too few places that you can go to do that.
And, yeah, it comes back to the letter from Constance here asking about community input and
what does the community think. She set the bar pretty high for us. And that’s, I mean she
actually got the vision better than we did. You know, she put us, you know, the comment in
there was “the heart of the community.” So she sets some things for us to live up to.
ISHIBASHI: No doubt it’s fabulous bread. I wished we had some to sample but, you know, we
(laughter) -.
T. ROBESON: Well, we were wondering, should we cater this or (laughter) -.
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EXHIBIT A
ISHIBASHI: My concern is traffic. You’re going to be so famous now with you selling this
bread all over, the thing is going to expand, and now we’re going to have more traffic. So that’s
another issue, you know.
T. ROBESON: Well, again, the traffic, you know, the Police Department looked at it. I mean,
they didn’t see an issue. There’s good visibility in both directions. You know, there’s a pretty
good easy pull in and out.
LEITHEAD TODD: Based on, you know, the size of their operation, it didn’t trigger the
requirement for a TIAR, for a traffic impact analysis. Because they’re talking, they think, 30 to
50 cars a day, you know, perhaps more depending on the traffic. But typically when you’re
looking at traffic impacts you’re looking at whether they’re going to generate 50 trips within an
hour, as opposed to 50 trips over the course of the day. And you’re usually looking at peak
travel times. So the biggest areas of concern would be traffic early in the morning when people
are headed to work and traffic when people are headed up. But, you know, I don’t think that that
per se is as big an issue.
The biggest issue for me was the CDP. And, frankly, you know, all plans, including the General
Plan, have conflicting provisions. You know, on the one hand you’ll have language that says
you want to have particular uses concentrated in a Village Center. On the other hand you have
language in the CDP and the General Plan that talks about trying to enhance the viability of
agriculture and the ability of farmers to sell their products and to produce value-added products
from local agriculture. And you have similar types of language in the Puna CDP. And so
sometimes the difficulty is you look at competing values. Whereas, something like this does fit
some of those values because it is about economic diversity and providing opportunities; and it
does also potentially enhance agricultural uses because they’re able to sell their products in that
store.
On the other hand you have a vision where they want to try and concentrate certain types of
commercial activity in the village centers. And the difficulty that both my staff and I have every
time one of these comes through is try to decide, you know, which one do we pay more attention
to. Do we pay more attention to the village center in trying to push activity there, or to an
application which as other types of merits to it in terms of the economic opportunities, in terms
of supporting agriculture, and which one do you weigh as important? And it has been a very
difficult balancing act on our part because you canhave an application that in other
circumstances the Department might actually recommend because it’s a good proposal, it looks
like it’s going to be well operated. But, you know, we’ve been erring on the side of trying to
direct growth towards the village centers and, you know, that has presented some, some
problems in terms of the applications.
KERN: Thank you, Madam Director. Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I sympathize with you folks. You know, it’s apparent
and clear to me that what you’re trying to do is a thing that is going to be beneficial to the
community, and especially even to the farmers. Because the farmers would be able to bring their
products in and process that, and prepare whatever they need, and people can go there, as you
described with the lady who had that spice.
Down in my area in the Hamakua Coast there’s one community kitchen in Paauilo. I don’t know
if they’re still in operation. And there’s one in Honokaa, that’s a part of the old hospital which is
now the North Hawai‘i Educational Resource Center. So adjacent to that is the kitchen, and it
has been widely used. In fact, some years ago when I was on the County Council I had, you
know, we had many interactions with people. And I know a lady here in Hilo who was
interested in processing achiote oil, but there’s no way that she could have done it. So what
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EXHIBIT A
happened was she travelled all the way to Honokaa to preserve that. And I think we if go to
Taniguchi, there’s that Mt. Apple brand. I think those are products which many people in their
own way have preserved and canned and made goods for sale at the market. You know, those
are the kind of spirit of entrepreneurship that we’d like to generate in our society where people
are not totally dependent on those big markets who make, and to use that and provide for us.
That’s why I said this is a good thing.
But, you know, let me tell you one thing. I read once that if Noah had to go through the process
that we have to go through to obtain permits today to build a house, he would never have been
able to do that. Can you imagine him going in for an environmental impact statement and having
a qualified engineer to make all the drawings for that ark, provide for sanitation and sewer
disposal, all of those things? You know, but today government is in our way; and we’re a part of
it. And it all has come down to us because of instances that people have gone through in the past
and to address them. And we have the same problem with this. The Community Development
Plan has been designed so that there would no wide-scale development and scattered uses
throughout the Puna area. One of the most glaring opposition here by the Planning Director in
her recommendation, it’s not in keeping with the Puna Development Plan. So what I was
alluding to previously is the Puna Development Plan does not address in any instance the fact
that, you know, within our own agricultural-designated lands you can go in and apply for a use
permit and conduct, conduct a business or processes, which is of a small nature and which would
not fall within a description of regional commercial center. And when we consider Puna as large
as it is, now we’re finding out that these kinds of uses that you propose are uses that would fit
well into a large, into large areas, that would prevent people from travelling long distances to go
to buy a loaf of bread or to go, and just go down and get together with your friends and have
coffee and cookies or whatever, biscuits, at the place where you can come together and discuss
and solve the world’s problem, you know. And I think those are the things that help mold our
society into an informed society and a better place to live.
Now that being done, unless there is some way that we can address this issue with the
Community Development Plan and the people, then I will wait until such a time when they make
a decision. Of course, you know where I’m coming from.
T. ROBESON: Well, you know, you mentioned addressing the Community Development Plan,
and the Community Development Plan stresses agriculture, and for that zone, for that piece of
land.
DOMINGO: Well, more than anything else, it stresses the commercial centers. And that
commercial center as described in here is not projected to be in this area.
T. ROBESON: Right.
DOMINGO: And you’re out of that, out of that area in which the commercial uses are
permitted.
T. ROBESON: Yeah, but, you know, as you said a little bit earlier, you know, it’s a small, you
know, we’re not regional. We are a small -.
DOMINGO: I know, I know. That’s why I think we’re caught between the interpretation and
the application of a regional center, and the uses that I speak of in which, you know, these kinds
of operations can be conducted. And it would be for those who draw up the regulations and
policies in the Planning Department and the County Council to decide.
MELROSE: Can I just add, I’m pleased that this -.
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KERN: Yeah, let’s, if we can, start to summarize this.
MELROSE: That’s right. I’m at the end of that process.
KERN: We have people in the public waiting to -.
MELROSE: And that’s really what I want to say, is that there are people from the community
who have come for the purpose of trying to, you know, express their interest in that. And the one
other thing I would add is that this issue of a small regional versus, you know, small activities
versus regional centers, you’re going to see this come to you in both the Kau CDP and the
Hamakua CDP. And I ask because you guys live in this world of having to be the, having to
walk that line, ask to make sure when you see those that this process addresses, that those two
plans address that. Puna failed to do that. But you shouldn’t let Kau or Hamakua do that
because it is the fundamental essential nature of rural economy of people living on property and
trying to make it work for them and make their lives work around what is the only piece of
property that they own. And if they can do it without offending neighbors, if they can do it
without creating regional or neighborhood kinds of issues, it is how we are in rural Hawai‘i; and
I think that’s a fair truth. So please when those things come up ask the question, because that’s
an important part of what I think the Plan needs to include.
KERN: Thank you. Commissioner Au.
AU: Question. You mentioned this was a process of about a year and a half and you guys went
for your building permit. When were you guys issued your building permit?
T. ROBESON: We were issued a building permit in, well, the initial permit or the final?
AU: I guess when did you get your permit and when did you get your final?
T. ROBESON: Good question. We got our permit I believe late ’08, middle to late. So
probably itwould have been November of ’08; and got the final in November of ’09.
AU:And you were open for three days?
T. ROBESON: We were open for three days.
AU: And then someone came up to you and told you guys you guys need a special permit?
T. ROBESON: We had, Planning came up and said that, you know, it was an inspector that
came up. And he said, you know, what are you doing? And we explained to him. And he said,
well, there was a complaint that you’re running this type of operation without a special use
permit. And I said, well, I thought I had been through the whole process to get everything that I
needed because I’ve got a set of plans right here that state right on them retail bakery; and it’s
signed and approved by, you know, everybody, you know, Planning included. And he said no,
shouldn’t have done that, you need to go through this process the same as, as, every, the
complainant had to go through this process. So we stopped.
AU: So basically for two years you went along your business, you guys built it, you guys
invested all this money, all this time, and then you were told that you can’t do this?
T. ROBESON: Correct.
AU: Question for staff, I mean, BJ. You know, throughout this entire process, you know, the
clients, the applicants, you know, are spending all this time and money and it was never
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EXHIBIT A
triggered, a special permit was never triggered. And, you know, throughout the process BJ
mentioned, you know, sometimes we have to get, Department of Health is triggered, sometimes
other agencies gets triggered. Maybe, why didn’t this special permit get triggered throughout the
two-year process?
COTTLE: Staff hasn’t actually seen the building plans so we don’t know what the plans
showed. But sometimes what will happen, and I’m not saying that’s what happened in this case,
but sometimes what will happen is they’ll come in for plans for a commercial kitchen and it will
be more associated with processing agricultural products that are grown on the property. So we
would go ahead and sign off on a building permit for that purpose. And then the use is converted
down the road without the knowledge of the Planning Department, and I’m not saying that’s
what happened in this case cause I haven’t seen the plans, but that does happen.
LEITHEAD TODD: I mentioned that a commercial kitchen in an agricultural area does not per
se trigger a need for a special permit if they are processing stuff on the property that’s grown on
the property. So I don’t know the history of this particular permit and what their representation
was or what happened when it came through. And it could be that when staff looked at it they
just, you know, didn’t see a trigger, or itcould be that the clerk up front who traditionally signs
off on the building permit didn’t see a need to take it to a planner. Because what typically
happens is when somebody comes in they just look at whether it’s consistent with, you know,
what they see on the property, and they’re not necessarily looking at whether there’s a
commercial aspect. And we do have commercial kitchens that have been approved on Ag zoned
lands.
The part that is just, that I particularly, you know, feel bad about is the fact that the applicants are
so far down the road in terms of having built and invested and put the money. And that, you
know, it does raise the question that somewhere along the line why didn’t someone in the county,
you know, say to them, well, you know, what are you planning to do with this cause it’s a major
expenditure. And for that part I feel, I do feel very badly about the applicants because it’s a
terrible situation to be in. Their representation is that they’ve put about $125,000 into this. And
then to be that far down the line and have had the building permit approved, and to have no one
say along the line that there was some other approval that they needed in order to go forward is,
it doesn’t reflect well on the process. And, unfortunately, this doesn’t, I think, reflect well on the
County in terms of the fact that nobody along the line asked them and specifically brought this to
their attention. And perhaps that’s something that we need to correct within the Department that
when something comes in we need to ask a few more questions about, you know, what the intent
is so that we can catch something before people have expended money. Because I think we had
something, well, no the other one was built like a garage and I don’t think we would have caught
that automotive thing when it was just a garage that was being constructed.
But in the case of a commercial kitchen perhaps that would be a trigger. And I think I will, in
fact, based on, you know, this hearing provide new instruction to staff on those building permits.
It doesn’t help them out but hopefully we can catch things in the future before they get this far
down the road.
KERN: Thank you very much. Any questions? Seeing none, how does my Fellow
Commissioners feel, you’re ready for a quick recess or you want to push through?
ONO: Recess.
DOMINGO: Recess.
KERN: Okay, moved for a 5-minute recess.
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ONO: Five minutes.
KERN: Five-minute recess is happening.
RECESSED – The Chair called a recess at 12:25 p.m.
RECONVENED – The Chair reconvened the meeting at 12:35 p.m.
KERN: Okay, Windward Planning Commission, coming back to order. Okay, back to the
applicant, Pearl Bakery, SPP 10-111. I’d like to move to the public testimony part. We’re going
to limit the public testimony to three minutes per person. At the time of three minutes comes
we’ll signal you; and if you’ll just summarize, please, at that point. We do have five people
signed up to testify. So I’m going to call three, the first three. Possibly more, I might have
misspoke. Okay, right now we have five people signed up to testify. I’m going to call up the
first three. In order, and in the order in which you’re called up is how you’ll testify; and then I’ll
call up the last two, the finals. So we’ve got Sandra Sanoria. All right, come on up and have a
seat at the table, Connie Haskell and Jay Fincher. And I’ll get all three to raise your hands.
Raise your right hand. And do you swear to,or affirm to tell the truth today before the
Windward Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do. Yes.
KERN: Okay, and just before you begin with your testimony, give us your name and address,
and you may begin.
SANORIA: My name is Sandra Sanoria. I live at 11-3076 Kahaualea Road, right by Akatsuka.
And Ididn’t actually know I would speak today, but just jotted a couple of notes, cause you said
to bring up things that haven’t already been said. So my first thought was how great for us as
individuals that live in that area, because I thought of the healthy choices that we don’t always
have. And that in times of crises when we’re up the hill by the time we get down there’s nothing
left, and how great to know a baker. And when I talked about healthy choices I thought about all
the individual needs with health-related conditions and how knowing your baker one on one
could meet those needs -- Gluten free or, you know, you have to have wheat, or if someone is a
diabetic they can’t have this or that. But knowing this woman, Vickie Robeson, she gets to know
the people around her. She just -. You know, automatically tell her what your needs are and
she’ll come up with it. And I thought how great for us because we don’t always get that; and we
have so many people that, you know, they can’t make it all the way to Hilo. And maybe you
have to catch the bus, the bus comes by my road at 6:30 in the morning and you have to go all
the way to town. You don’t get to come home until that night. So maybe you could catch that
bus with your bicycle, go down, have a cup of coffee, get your bread, ride back. You’ve got
exercise at the same time. And I just kept thinking that it would be a place for people to come
together also and talk and to help their neighbors. And, you know, if there is an emergency we
do get cut off in all the plans. It’s like, you know, just after the National Park road gets closed,
Akatsuka or around in that area, the road gets closed, I think we need a bakery. And whatever
the amount it is, I didn’t even know what it would cost for a loaf of bread. All I know is it’s way
cheaper than driving in to Hilo when there’s a need. And I think that we need these typesof
people in our community.
And even though I live in the community, you know, I heard about this PC, I don’t even know
the acronym, and I just sat there and I thought shame on me because I didn’t know. Because had
I known I think I could have voiced something that I’m not voicing today. And I think
somewhere along the line there wasn’t a consideration about the times when we do get cut off.
And with the economy the way it is, and the job situation and you talk about cap and trade or
green, the green zone, and carbon prints, this is local, you don’t have to bring it in. And she
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knows what to do with the wheat berries and the seeds and whatever. I don’t. I need her in my
community and I need their business, and I think there are many other people. And it says please
stop, so thank you very much.
KERN: If you’d like to summarize really quickly -.
SANORIA: I do?
KERN: Well, if you want to, you’re right in the middle of our cutting off -.
SANORIA: Okay. If any of you, I’m looking at all of you, have grandmas, aunties, whatever,
that have baked in the morning and you smell that bread and you get to have bread out there in
nature where the birds are singing and just everything right there grown – I mean, you can’t beat
that. To me it’s common sense. And that’s what we need to stick to, is what is common sense,
what is good for us as individuals and the community.
KERN: Thank you very much. Now we’re going to lunch (laughter).
SANORIA: I think we should have them make the sandwiches (laughter). Sorry, I got carried
away.
KERN: Connie Haskell.
HASKELL: Yeah, I’m Connie Haskell. I’m the one who emailed that letter.
KERN: Name and address, please.
HASKELL: Oh, sorry. Connie Haskell. My address is 18-4115 Komo Street. So I live within
three minutes, well, driving minutes of where the proposed bakery is. And talking about the
Puna development, I am Puna. As well as my son who is a police officer there, and my daughter
works for 911, and ten grandchildren all live in Puna. And, pretty much, I want to thank you for
your openness and your frankness about being caught in between kind of a rock and a hard place
in regards to how the plan has been written out and your making decisions in regards to that plan.
And I know that every plan, changes have to have, changes have to happen, they have to be
enhanced, especially with the exponential growth that’s happening out in Puna. We all know
that. It’s going to come out. We’re going to see it real soon. And Hawai‘i in itself has
superseded the nation as far as growth is concerned, and especially in the Puna area.
So with that said, I think my biggest concern after listening to what all I’ve been hearing today is
the determination of where the centers are in Puna. Because I live on Oshiro Road, I’ve, I mean
off of Oshiro Road. In the past four years, we had over 72 homes that were built there in that
small little tiny Oshiro Road, not to mention all the other growth that has happened all the way
up that 8-mile stretch between Mt. View and Hirano Store. So, honestly, if either, with no, not
putting down Hirano Store or Mt. View Store, but if either of those are considered the center, I
think we’re way under served. There’s no, I have to, if anybody wanted to come together, the
community, and stay at either one of those places, you’d have cars lined up and down the
highway. So my thing is that we have no center. And if you have no center, you have no heart.
So with all the planning and, you know, of course we know the old saying the devil is in the
details, we all know it’s important. But at the same time, you know, the heart of the community,
that’s where you have crime. It happens all the time. My son, as I said my son is a police officer
in Puna, and our district is getting more and more calls. My road alone, my daughter’s 911 gets
probably, I mean it’s amazing how many calls. The calls have increased.
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But, anyway, with that said, I feel that this would create just another place for us to come
together, to have coffee, to talk to each other, and I think somebody earlier said solve the
problems of the world. You know what, just solving the problems in Puna would be an awesome
thing, just that alone would be wonderful, or getting people involved. Honestly, half the time,
I’m sorry, half of the time when the Planning Committee’s meetings are happening --and I’m
pretty much out there, I’m communicating and talking --and the next thing I know a meeting has
happened and I didn’t realize it was happening. Maybe it’s my bad, maybe I haven’t
communicated as well or listened, I don’t know. But I have been to several of the meetings.
And I just think that we could use a lot more support or places to meet so that we could know
these things, you know.
So, again, aside from all the other good things, you know, the fact that it is a business, it will
provide jobs, it will provide jobs for entrepreneurs who want to bake their products or do
whatever they might do in the kitchen, I think the community center thing is a real important
thing. And sustainability, the fact that you don’t have to drive five miles down the road to get a
cup of coffee or to get a loaf bread, cause we do have to do that now; and I’m real concerned
about that. I plan my one trip to Hilo. I feel like a little country girl. I come to Hilo and do
everything in one day so I don’t have to drive back and forth up that hill. But, anyway, that’s
what I have to say, and I just want to thank you for hearing me.
KERN: Thank you. Name and address, and you may begin.
FINCHER: Hi. My name is Jay Fincher. Address is 17-4194 Laau Popohe Road, Kurtistown.
I’ve known Tom and Vickie for several years now; and I was pleased to hear that they were
going to start a new business in the Puna district. They work very hard. I think the issue here is,
you know, with all the permits that have to be pulled, filled, discussed, the government that’s
involved in that, they thought they had it all done. And Mr. Domingo was saying, you know, if
Noah had to do that then, you know, none of us would be here today. We were all drowned.I
think one of the questions that I have is with the Community Development Plan is, you know,
you’re talking about the village center and the Puna district is as big as Oahu. Does Oahu only
have one village center? No, it does not. So why does the Puna district have to have one village
center and why isn’t it where this bakery is? Why isn’t this the new village center?
You talk about the people that represent, these are the people behind us here. You know, what, I
think only good can come from this. They’re going to hire some employees, they’re going to
pay their taxes. I work at the hospital. I see the people who pay taxes, who don’t pay their taxes.
We need tax base revenue, that’s how we survive. That’s how we’re going to live here on this
island. I wish I had something else that could convince you that this is going to be a great thing.
If you were there in the three days and saw the people stopping and, “Oh, you’re opened,” and
then after they were closed the people who kept stopping says “Why aren’t you open?” It’s
because somebody was not happy with for whatever reason saying that you have to do more, you
have to do more. They have exhausted almost three years in their bank accounts trying to do
this. Eat their pie, go buy a loaf of bread, you’ll know why.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Thank you very much. Yes, Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: I appreciate your comments. As a, you folks saw that movie of Jerry McGuire
when after the football game he came home and his wife was with a number of wives and talking
about, you know, they’re divorcees? And he said something and he went on blabbing, blabbing.
And the wife said you had me at the very beginning when you, the first word you said. She said
you had me. Well, you know, you convinced me when you folks came up already on how you
folks feel.
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And speaking of that aroma of that freshly baked bread, I grew up with that. My, one of my
friends, in fact their parents had a Portuguese oven in the back and we used to always go over
and play, and they used to give us those fresh baked bread. I can still remember that. And I
know what you mean, so -. But you know, and I’m not expecting them to go through any further
hoops or hurdles to get this permit. It’s just a matter of waiting, yeah, waiting for a short while.
What I’d like to see, because, again, as I’ve stated, the Community Development Plan, I don’t
know if it ever mentions an approach through a special permit. You know, right now we’re
considering this. And it’s, as I stated it’s outside of the commercial center area. So,
interpretation is that it’s not supposed to be permitted. Yeah? And that’s law already because
it’s in the ordinance. But what I’d like to see if possible, that there is a -.
KERN: We have more testifiers, too, yeah?
DOMINGO: Oh, okay.
KERN: Actually, no, there’s four more now.
DOMINGO: Okay. I’ll continue afterwards.
KERN: Thank you, Commissioner Domingo. Are there are any direct questions for these
testifiers? Seeing none, thank you all very much. You may have a seat. Okay, we’ve got four
more, seven in total. Russell Nakao, Jeffrey Hara, I’m not going to do very well on this one,
Jededah (phonetic) Kay?
KAY: Jedediah.
KERN: Jedediah. Told you I wasn’t going to do it well. And Jason Sanborn.
PUBLIC: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Yes.
PUBLIC: Jeff Hara has got a call that his daughter is sick and he had to leave.
KERN: Okay. Very good, thank you for that. Okay, I’ll get all of you to raise your hand. Do
you swear to tell the truth today before the Windward Planning Commission?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
KERN: Very good. And you can go in the order in which you were called. So starting with
Russell Nakao; and name and address and you may begin.
NAKAO: Okay. I’m Russell Nakao and I live at 18-1695 Volcano Highway, which is about
120 feet from the proposed bakery. And I’m sure you all got my letter about the concerns of,
you know, having a quiet time at night; and I’d wish you consider that.
The other concernthat I have is if a retail bakery is allowed in an Agricultural zone would it
affect my land taxes. You know, I hear a lot of different things about, you know, commercial
development and then the neighboring property gets reevaluated and their taxes go up and all
that kind of stuff. So I just want to make sure because I’m on a limited income and my wife
always tells me that I don’t make “blanks” so that I have to, you know, address these concerns.
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Also, if the application goes through would the Commission specify in detail the exact hours of
operation and what’s allowed? And if the conditions are not followed, you know, what recourse
do I have to make sure that these things are in compliance?
KERN:I’d like to make a quick point, it’s not really how the process works for you to ask us
questions. You can voice your concerns and then possibly someone can answer those; but you
may not get all of them answered. So it’s best to voice your concerns and what you would
potentially like to see. Thank you.
NAKAO: Okay.Well, basically, you know, my basic concern is to have quiet time at night; and
that’s really the basic concern. And as I pointed out in the letter, you know, if in the event that I
rent the property, the home out, you know, it’s going to restrict the kind of tenants I can have and
how much I can charge if nobody is going to be able to sleep at night. And, you know, the
nature of a bakery I would think there would be preparation time like early in the morning to
meet like a 6 o’clock opening time. So that’s what I’m concerned about. You know, people
talking or pots and pans, you know, banging, that kind of thing that can, you know, get me up in
a minute. But that’s basically my concern, is the quiet time at night.
KERN: Okay, thank you very much. Jedediah Kay.
KAY: My name is Jedediah Kay. I’m a case manager for Care Hawaii. I live at -.
KERN: Excuse me, thank you. Your address.
KAY: I live at 16-2044 Moho Road. That’s all the way, as far as you can get out of 8 Road. I
work in the community with adults with SMI, severe mental illness. And, you know, I wanted to
come here today and support this bakery because I believe in the idea of what they want to do. I
had a chance to meet Anthony, which is the Robeson’s son, a few months back,and I’ve had a
chance to taste their bread; and it’s pretty fantastic, you know. And I grew up in New York, I’ve
been here for ten years, and I grew up with that smell, that wheat bread smell. My mom used to
bake bread. And, you know, it’s very difficult in this community to find that kind of quality in
food. And, as you can tell, I like food. However, it’s not just the quality of the food that’s the
concern here. It’s supporting the community and giving growers of food an opportunity to sell
their product in a manner that helps them. Actually they can drop off their product and sell it at
this place, rather than having it sit somewhere for a day and lose that time where they could be
growing more. I just want to ask this Council (sic), this body, to, you know, look at the idea,
look at the real idea, of the base of what they’re trying to do here and look out for the best
interest of our community in providing an outlet for people to socialize, to buy good food, and to
be well with our community. Thanks very much.
KERN: Thank you. Jason Sanborn, name and address, and you may begin.
SANBORN: Hi. I’m Jason Sanborn and address is 2916-C Ainaola Drive. So I live in Waiakea
Uka, upper Hilo. I don’t live anywhere near the Robesons. But I’m the owner of a small
excavation contracting company so I’m in the Puna area every day of the week. I am up, I mean
the Puna area is growing so much. I need this type of,some place like their wanting because I
can meet with clients there, you know. It’s a mutual place, a friendly place that you can have
coffee -. And they’re talking about the bread, forget the bread. You guys haven’t even tasted the
pumpkin squares, or the cinnamon rolls, or the home-made brownies made from scratch that no,
I mean no, not premade stuff, I mean just totally hands-on, made with love, you know. And,
yeah, my grandma and dad they bake and stuff, my mom. So, yeah, it’s just a, I think it’s a
wonderful thing, the, I mean, everything. It’s Ag, it’s not depending on -. We need to be more, I
don’t know the word, you know, dependent on ourselves, you know, stuff like this. Rural
Hawai‘i has been made up of mom and pop stores like this, we all know that. I think it’s, so for
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my business it will be a good thing if I’m meeting clients up in that area. For me it’s a good
thing. I love what they make.
And if this doesn’t happen, I think it’s an absolute waste of resources, time, money, effort and
talent. So, I mean, I’ll just ask that the board --yeah, I know that the CDP, I recognized this
morning that it certainly sounds like it does have some flaws -- so I’m just asking that the board
recognize the real, you know, like how Mr. Domingo was saying, yeah. And, yeah, I support it
110 percent. Thank you.
KERN: Very good, thank you. Are there any questions for the testifier?
ONO: Yeah, I’m sorry. If I may go back to the previous speaker.
KERN: Yeah, absolutely. Commissioner Ono.
ONO: Regarding your quiet time. I guess you’re, what, when you say you want some quiet time
in the evenings, what time are you looking at? What times, between what times are you looking
at?
NAKAO: Basically when it gets dark.
NOMURA: Microphone, please.
KERN: Use your microphone.
NAKAO: Basically when it’s dark. You know, from, if they’re going to operate a bakery say
from 6 in the morning to 6 in the evening, then the other times, you know, I would say at least
from 9 o’clock in the evening to 5 or 6 in the morning, that’s what I’d consider -.
ONO: So you’re in bed by 9 o’clock?
NAKAO: Pretty much.
ONO: Okay.
NAKAO: But like, see, this morning, I had to, I was out there at 3 o’clock because I had dogs
trying to kill my cattle. So, but basically I’m sleeping between 9 and 6, right around that period.
ONO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
KERN: Madam Director?
LEITHEAD TODD: I was going to say the application that they submitted was that they would
basically operate the kitchen from 4:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. with occasional evening use to
accommodate special orders,and that the retail operationsthat theywere proposing be open to
the public would be open from 7 a.m. to 4 p.m. And we may get them back up here to question
them on those hours, but that was the representation in their application.
And as to whether it would impact your property taxes, it shouldn’t because it’s a special use
permit. It’s not a rezoning of the property. And the valuation of their property is going to be
based more on the improvements on the property because of the commercial kitchen, whereas
yours is on a residential. On top of that, if you were owner/occupant of your home then you’ll
probably be getting a different tax valuation than any commercial property would be getting.
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KERN: Any other questions for the testifiers? Seeing none, you may be seated. Thank you very
much. Okay. So we seem to be at another Puna cross-road. I’m going to give my two cents
real quickly cause born and raised here, Big Island, spent most of my whole life growing up in
Puna and was involved somewhat with the Puna CDP when it came out. And I was really
pushing for it to be a resolution instead of an ordinance so it’d be more guiding than dictating.
And, to be honest, where most of the village centers and commercial centers are located with the
little spotted line, they don’t benefit anybody in the community except for the big landowners;
and most of them aren’t in the process of doing anything. And they’re not making land
available, they’re notmaking facilities available for people to do these types of activities. So it’s
a big challenge. And the General Plan doesn’t do a lot for Puna either. That needs some work
there so we can open up Puna a lot more. I think it’s being, getting very clear in the last five
years that Puna is a force to reckon with. It’s growing, but it needs help. And we need some
infrastructure, and we need businesses, and we need services.
And so, you know, this is a tricky one. It’s off the highway. That was my biggest concern at the
beginning, was the traffic and basically safety. That’s my big concern, it’s not, you know, what
you’re doing is a safety factor. And that seems to be somewhat, you know, taken care of from
the Police Department’s perspective. So, yeah, I always try to be a friend of Puna because it’s a
challenging place and dealing with government is challenging too. And that’s one of the
beauties of this Commission, is that, you know, we actually get a chance to have a dialogue and
figure things out and, hopefully, sometimes come to a compromise, and other times not. And in
this case, you know, we’re in a touchy, touchy subject because, you know, we have to make a
vote; and if things go a certain way the outcome can change very seriously.
So we either make a motion right now, which is basically where we’re at -. So, Commissioner
Domingo?
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, I move that we defer action on this matter and perhaps bringing it
up for consideration within the next two months.
KERN: Okay.
DOMINGO: And if I have a second then I’ll explain why I’m moving for a deferral.
ONO: I second.
KERN: Discussion.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, it’s obvious amongstthe Planning Commissioners that there’s wide
support for this particular application, absent some, some concerns that have been expressed by
the speakers here. But, more than anything else, there is that support. And the reason I’m asking
for deferral, yeah, as I was about toexplain,and the reason why I’m asking for a deferral is
because although the regional plan designates commercial centers -- and then as mentioned Puna
is so huge an area, you know,going from one center to another center too and of which there is
no sign or indication that there is a center at all --it’s only a designation. But meanwhile the
people of Puna are saddled with these kind of concerns as, oh, if I need bread or something I’ve
got to travel all the way, a long distance to go, and which is, I think, absurd in view of the cost of
gasoline today. And as I began to mention also, the Development Plan has made no mention of
using special permits to consider other uses on agricultural land to which this use is applicable.
And my concern is that the people in Puna and others are looking at the Development Plan for
whichever future plans they’d like to make. Yeah? And when and if we apply any special
permit and a use which is altogether different from what you would find in an agricultural
designated land, you know, then they’ll question why has this use been permitted, what or how
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strong is the Community Development Plan in enforcing the policies and the guidelines as
contained in there? And there is no strong, strong support for it, no conviction. There are not
enough answers. But if they know as they look at an agricultural-designated parcel there is a
way that you can conduct other uses, other uses which are unusual but reasonable use,of an
agricultural parcel -- and that’s what we’ve been using as a criteria to approve other special
permits in the past near, near this location.
So what I would like to see if at all possible is that there is a recognition of a special permit
procedure that can be used in the development plan. Now I know that today that is, I know that
tod ay that is permissible, that is permissible;and we can do that. Yeah? We can say, okay, the
uses as proposed and the conditions are appropriate and we can, we can provide for a special
permit. But I have a problem, you know, because it’s not in the development plan, the
Community Development Plan. And that’s why I asked for that two months’ deferral, so that
something like this can be worked out into the plan.
KERN: Thank you, Commissioner Domingo. Commissioner Ono?
ONO: Yes. As the applicant made a request to the committee regarding the helping out, filling
of time for the use by community agencies, oh, community groups, I’ll just ask the previous
speaker -. I think I’m also for the delay only because these questions need to be answered as to
whether it’s good for business to say, for example, now this is just as an example, that we’ll
close by 9 o’clock. I have a relative who is in farming and when we visit he tells me goodnight.
I’m at his house in Honokaa and he tells me good night. That means leave because I’m going to
go to sleep. So I don’t want to have that difference of conflict between the community as to, not
I’m asking -. So for me the delay is we need to have community input. And I really am
supportive of your business but I need to have, or at least for me, I’d like to have more
community input. Thank you.
KERN: Thank you, Mr. Ono. If I could have the applicant and their representative,or and/or,
come forward. First off, do you folks agree or are you okay with a deferral, or would you rather
see action today one way or the other?
T. ROBESON: I guess, I need to be honest. I don’t know that I can make other two months.
With no revenue and nothing generated and 2 ½ years invested, I just don’t know if I can do it.
As I said when I walked in, this is a culmination of 2 years’ worth of effort going into this. You
know, as you were saying about the times, I mean I understand the times. That’s why we put the
times in the thing. And I’ve got no issue with adjusting those times and setting, you know, if it’s
5:30. I guess you’ve got to see how the day goes. I’ve got a son in Volcano School. We get up
in the morning, we get him off to school. He goes to school at 8 o’clock, and we go down, and
we start. You know, when you’re laying out the application, you’re trying to think ahead like
you said of what could be. And, yeah, you do need prep time in the morning, but we don’t plan
on opening before, you know, 7. Set the times at 6 to 6 and then there’s no issue whatsoever
with whether somebody is in bed or we’re waking somebody up. We have no problem with that.
KERN: So to answer the question, you’re saying no, you’d rather not have a deferral? You
don’t want a deferral today?
T. ROBESON: I would prefer not to have a deferral only because I’m not sure if we can make it
that long and make this -. I mean you may defer this to a point where there’s no point in
considering it because we won’t have the wherewithal to continue.
MELROSE: Let me add a thought to that, a couple of things. One is I appreciate the desire to
get more community input. There is one neighbor here, one neighbor, and he has been here; and
he has provided written testimony. And I think the relationship has been such that we’re really
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EXHIBIT A
trying hard to meet that requirement and have no problem with anything that he has said or
asked. So who else do we need to talk to as the noise issue isconcerned?
The other question is, and maybe this is more related to Mr. Domingo’s question, is if this -. If
part of what you’re waiting for is some kind of an affirmation from the steering committee of the
CDP or something like that, one is I’m not sure that’s the role of the action committees as they’re
established to weigh in on individual projects. I don’t know that that’s -. We could certainly go
talk to Mrs. Bell or, you know, we could take some time and try to get on their agenda to say
does this make sense or not. But that’s really trying to fix the broader CDP to try and solve a
very simple,what I think is,call that needsto get made. Ultimately there’s a call to be made as
to whether or not this is a reasonable thing to do. So if we do do that deferral, you know, and he
has to kind of suck it up and figure it out, we still need some real clarity about that means. And
do you want us to go to the CDP and have the action committees begin to weigh in on such a
thing, or what? So give us the instructions clearly so that we know what you’re asking for, and
not just time because time doesn’t work for our client.
KERN: Madam Director?
LEITHEAD TODD: I was going to say that given timelines I’m not even sure what it would
take, you know, in order to meet the schedule for the CDP, to get it on their agenda, and then get
it back on our agenda. Because we’re required to, typically we put our agendas together, what, a
month in advance. And so the timing might be very difficult to get it to them and something
back to us, particularly if they didn’t comment. Because I think Mr. Domingo’s concern was not
so much this application but the use of special permits, which has not really been addressed.
And so I just, but I do want to say that whichever way the Commission goes since in the past you
haven’t always gone with the recommendation of the Director, the staff does have a set of
conditions if you decide to go the other way.
KERN: Wow, thoughtful. I saw Commissioner Domingo raise his hand. We’re going to
probably move for an executive session here in a minute, but I wanted to say something before
that happens. With all due respect to Commissioner Domingo, the CDP was pretty much
ramroded down the Commission’s throat and the County Council’s throat at a strategic time with
a bully-like element to it, in my opinion. And we haven’t seen very many good things occur
from the CDP in Puna, in my opinion, over the last couple of years; and it’s sad. We have the
village centers where people don’t want them, we have associations that haven’t really even been
spoken to. Now they’re, you know, getting more involved in the process and, you know,
figuring it out.
To even begin to think that we’re going to get something in writing or something amended in the
CDP regarding special permit applications is not realistic, in my opinion, in the next year. And a
lot of the people that were pushing the CDP said, “Hey,we’ll be right back, we’re going to make
all these amendments. The constitution wasn’t perfect, let’s get it, let’s pass it now and amend it
later.” And we’ve seen a few amendments come through, but nothing that has really helped
Puna. Everything that we’ve helped Puna with I think has been due to us making tough decision
to give, you know, an entrepreneur or a community member a chance.
And so I’m personally, you know, my big thing was the traffic on this one. I will support this
and I’m just -. I wish I could have that faith that in two months, you know, we would get
something in the CDP that would really address this. I would appreciate that, I would love that.
But the fact of the matter is that’s not true and that’s not how it works. So here we are again
with another tough decision from a CDP that was pushed, pushed, pushed, pushed, and almost
bullied. Thank you.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman?
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KERN: Yes, Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: That is the reason I’m asking if we can have an executive session.
KERN: Yes, and I would like to do that. I just wanted to put that out there before we move to
that place. So do I have a motion for executive session?
DOMINGO: So move, Mr. Chairman.
KERN: So moved.
ISHIBASHI: Second.
KERN: Seconded. All in favor aye?
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
KERN: All those opposed -? Okay, seeing no opposed, all favor. We’re going to take an
executive session. That means everybody must leave the room for a short period of time. We’re
going to have a discussion with our Corporation Counsel, and then we’ll call you back when
we’re ready; and we’ll move forward. Thank you.
EXECUTIVE SESSION - The Commission went into executive session at 11:17 a.m.The
Commission came out of executive session at 11:36 a.m. by a motion made by Commissioner
Domingo, seconded by Commissioner Ishibashi, and unanimously carried by a voice vote of all
Commissioners in attendance.
rd
KERN: February 3 Windward Planning Commission meeting will come back to order now.
Okay.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Yes, Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: With regards to my motion, to defer for two months, I withdraw that motion.
ONO: Second.
KERN: Okay. So motion withdrawn and second to withdraw.
DOMINGO: In its place, now in its place with regards to the pending application, in our
executive session we conferred with our Corporation Counsel, our legal advisor in these planning
matters. And we feel that in view of all the statements that have been made, in view of the
pending situation that exists right now, I would like to make a motion that we approve the special
permit with the conditions, with conditions as specified, and that might be amended as we make
any discussions.
ISHIBASHI: Second.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Yes, Commissioner Domingo.
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DOMINGO: Yes. Can I make comments since the motion was seconded?
KERN: Yeah.
DOMINGO: Or is there anything else that you’d like -?
KERN: Well, we have the motion that has been seconded. I think since there have been
conditions that you wanted to put in there, I think the applicant has the, we need to get those
conditions brought forward and have the applicant review those, and see if they’re agreeable to
that. While that is taking place, I believe we could have discussion, yes.
DOMINGO: Yeah, okay.
COTTLE: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: But, first of all, let’s see what Maija has to say.
COTTLE: Can I hear who seconded the motion?
KERN: Commissioner Ishibashi.
COTTLE: Okay. All right. So staff has created a set of conditions, and I can just go ahead and
read through them, if that’s okay. And you can discuss them.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, can we have discussion on the issues at hand; and then when we’re
ready to go, to adopt it and take votes, then we can make an amendment to the document.
KERN: Yes. With all due respect, for time sake I think we should see what the conditions are,
have the applicant be looking at those, and then go into discussion.
DOMINGO: Okay. Okay with me.
KERN: Okay, thank you.
COTTLE: So what we would recommend is our standard first condition that the applicant shall
comply with all of stated conditions of approval. We also recommend a condition for plan
approval, the standard condition that the applicant apply for Plan Approval prior to commencing
the proposed uses, and that’s toensure the landscaping requirements are met and parking is
provided. The Commission may want to decide whether to require paved parking or graveled
parking. We also would like to include a condition that access to the site meet the requirements
of the Department of Transportation. We did ask them for comments but we have not received
any comments from them, so it would be wise to just include that standard condition. A
condition that the gate at the driveway entrance on Volcano Highway should remain open during
hours of operation, so that people don’t stack up on the highway to open and close the gate. A
condition regarding the hours of operation. In the application they requested 4:30 a.m. to 7:00
p.m. for the commercial kitchen, so you may want to discuss what those hours should be with the
applicant, and possibly the neighbor as well. And then also set the hours of operation for retail
activities. Also, a condition that signs associated with the uses should comply with the County
Code. And the standard condition that the applicant shall comply with all County, State and
Federal laws, rules, and regulations, as well as the time extension condition if other conditions, if
they need more time to comply.
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th
There is also a letter we received from Department of Water Supply dated January 10 and they
donote that there is an existing 5/8” meter serving the existing building. But they do say that
that meter is limited to 400 gallons per day and that there’s not additional water available. So
we’d recommend a condition that the applicant provide a daily estimate of water usage and come
up with some way to stay within the Department of Water Supply’s limits for the proposed uses.
So those are the general issues of conditions. You could leave it up to the Planning Department
to work out the details, discuss -.
KERN: Well, first, I’d say, we’ll let that settle for a minute with the applicant and their
representative. And, Commissioner Domingo, discuss -?
DOMINGO: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I’d just like to make it clear that the decision that is made here
is not one that any one of the staff or the Planning Administration had changed. I think, I would
like to make it clear that the Commission Members themselves sat together and looked at the
circumstances through which theseapplicants have gone and looked at the situation that they are
in, and, of course, looking at, especially looking at the uses that are being proposed.
Now another important point I would like to make is that because, because the Puna
Development Plan does not address the needs of this particular area with regards to any future
commercial center, which is totally absent, and we find that there’s a number of families here
and people who feel that such a use is needed and is appropriate in this area. Now this would
seem like the Planning Commission is contradicting the Puna Development Plan. But then as
I’ve stated the Puna Development Plan does not consider any event where a special permit is
allowed. A special permit is allowed on agricultural parcels and which is deemed unusual but a
reasonable use of that land. And the Planning Commission notes that this is somewhat unusual
from anagricultural use but reasonable use for the property. One of the uses that the applicants
have stated that they would do is to have and invite people in the surrounding areas, the farmers
who are growing vegetables or producing commodities for processing everything, it will be made
available to those people in the area to come and process their vegetables, or whatever they want
to. They will establish a community kitchen so that people who want to process their foods and
package, process, so they can sell to the market, or whoever wants to buy them can do so. It’s an
opportunity for the people in that area. Because of this it enhances the use and it encourages the
use of agricultural lands for agricultural purposes. Now they can see an avenue through which
they can process their vegetables and sell them, whereas in this particular instance today that has
not been done. So those are the finer points of agreement that we find with this application. So
that is for the record. And I just, I know the Commission members ask their support for this
motion. Thank you.
KERN: Thank you, Commissioner Domingo. Can I get the applicant and their representatives
to come forward, please. Maija?
COTTLE: Mr. Chairman, can I add one more thing?
KERN: Yes.
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COTTLE: I also noticed one other part of the Department of Water Supply letter was that
adequate fire flow protection cannot be provided through the existing waterline. So we’d also
recommend some condition that the applicant work with Department of, the Fire Department to
meet that requirement.
KERN: So you’ve heard the motion and you’ve heard the conditions set forth. Do you agree
with those? What are yourcomments to those?
T. ROBESON: I’ve got a couple of questions on those. For example, I believe the second one
was plan approval. And maybe just a clarification -. Have we not already done that in going
through the building permit process and having the plans go through, and -? We’re not
proposing to change anything that’s there. The landscaping is done, the gravel parking lot is in.
The recommendations by the BuildingDepartment were pretty clear when they came up to do
the final. So that process was for a while. They wanted acement pad up front for better access.
You know, we took that from a 4 by 4 pad to a 20 by 60-foot pad. So that would be my question,
is what additional steps in the planning process need to be taken?
COTTLE: Well, plan approval is astandard procedure that any time you come in for a special
permit,if it’s warranted, we ask that you submit plans that show those things like parking,
landscape. You could probably use the plot plan that you submitted with your building permit to
show that. And you just submit that to the Planning Department, so that we can verify that what
is in your plans is actually put on the ground.
T. ROBESON: Okay. The only area of concern that I have with that is that the process of
submitting the plans for the bakery and getting them approved and finaled took a year and a half.
COTTLE: For your building permit?
T. ROBESON: Yeah, just for installing three sinks, two ovens and a hood.
COTTLE: Okay, well -.
T. ROBESON: Is that, are we looking at the same timeframe or -?
COTTLE: No. Plan approval should only take about 30 to 60 days, on average. That’s what has
been taking us.
KERN: Name and address.
V. ROBESON: Victoria Robeson, same thing, 11-3039 Kahaualea Road, Volcano. If I
understood correctly with the conditions, it said for No. 2 prior to, prior to using the, what we
want it for, we had to go through this process. So we’re back at another 30 to 60 days before we
can utilize that area.
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COTTLE: That’s how we usually write our standard condition. If the Commission wanted to
give, say, six months to comply with the plan approval, they could do that. That way you could
operate in the meantime.
V. ROBESON: Okay.
T. ROBESON: I mean, we have tried to do this the right way from day one. There’s, every
recommendation that Planning has made from, you know, when we bought the property, that we
had no idea – we made a condition of the sale that everything on that property had to be
permitted. And yet when we went through the permit process for the bakery we found out that
the greenhouses weren’t permitted. So first thing that we did was go and get them drawn, get
engineering approval, submit for plans, you know, and go through that process. So, I’d be more
than happy to accept a timeframe to allow us to accomplish that. And I believe we’ve shown in
the past that we have lived up to, you know, the desire to meet the requirements.
If I can step down a little bit further, the water supply, part of this process of getting the special
permit is they, we got comments back. So in those comments was a recommendationto have a
certified engineer look at the water flow for both fire and use of the bakery. First off, we don’t
come anywhere near using 400 gallons of water a day, a fraction thereof. However, we hired -.
MELROSE: Paul Nash.
T. ROBESON: Paul Nash to do a study on the water flow and what we were doing; and he’s in
that process now. So if we could, again, have an amount of time, we’ve already shown the desire
to meet whatever requirements flew down to us.
Signs, I mean I understand that. We’ll follow the Code, we’ll apply for permit. I mean that’s
normal.
MELROSE: You know, I think to summarize, the key issue really is being able to operate in a
reasonable period of time and to take some, take whatever time that you’ll grant us to complete
the plan approval process without stopping, being able to move into operation. I think you get
the sense that these are responsible people who will follow that up. And I will continue to work
with them to try and get that accomplished in a reasonable period of time. So if you would
provide to that, you know, aperiod in time as Maija suggested, that would be helpful. Six
months to comply would be a great thing. Hours of operation, you know, if that’s the will of the
Commission, that’s what we had suggested, that’s fine. We want to make sure we meet
Mr. Nakao’s interests. It sounds like we’re doing that in spirit and -.
T. ROBESON: We need to look at the opening time. You know, and this is based on the
testimony that he gave earlier. You know, we applied for 4:30. Maybe that is a little bit too
early. You know if the recommendation is to approve with conditions, maybe we set that from
4:30 to say 6:00 a.m., which might be a little bit better suited to the timeframe and for what’s
going on in the community at those times.
KERN: Okay.
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T. ROBESON: Now I’ve got no desire to create an issue within the community.
KERN: And that 6 a.m. still works for your intentions of what you want to do there?
T. ROBESON: Yeah, it definitely does, yeah.
KERN: Okay. I think that’s a decent compromise. Anything else?
MELROSE: No, I think that’s good. Thank you for the consideration, yes.
KERN: Absolutely.
T. ROBESON: I really appreciate it.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: Jeff, and your clients, I think you well know that the Commission has been very
receptive to your concerns; and that is why a motion to withdraw the deferral was made. And I
think by the action taken by the Commission indicates to the Planning Department that we’re
concerned as much as you and your clients are concerned with regards to the element of timing,
meeting the deadlines for all of this. I hope, I hope that the Planning Department, and I know
that they are aware of this,in whatever way they can support you that they’ll do it. After all
we’re, we’re part of a government that wants to improve, you know, improve our lives here in
Hawai‘i, and not holding back any legitimate or anyone who complies with the law to go ahead
and do what they want to do. And unlike Adam he was free to do everything; and the only
advice and attorney that he had was God himself so he won out. But in this case, we’ve got to
deal with government, so, you know, sometimes there are times where we find that we are at
loggerheads with some issues; and I hope that you will have patience and understanding. Thank
you very much.
KERN: Commissioner Domingo, how do you feel about the request from the applicants as far as
the six months to conform with those and the hours? Cause you, you made the motion, so if you
want to do that -.
DOMINGO: Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that.
KERN: So you would like to insert those into the conditions?
DOMINGO: Let that be a part of the record and that, a condition of approval.
KERN: Okay. So to be clear on that we’re looking at six months to comply with the plan
approval and other governmental conditions; and that the hours of operation be changed instead
of 4:30 in the morning to 6 o’clock in the morning to the stated time, amending.
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DOMINGO: You know, Chairman, I’d just like to mention that as far as the Planning
Department, you know, it has been made clear. But when we speak of other agencies, I don’t
think that we can speak for them. They have their own timetable and everything that they need
to do. So just with regards to the comment with the Planning Department having able to deal
plan approval, I think it’s appropriate.
KERN: Well, we’ve got the, there’s the request for the water, the water study; and that would
kind of fit into that six-month timeframe -.
DOMINGO: Yeah, yeah.
KERN: For them to get the water study done -.
DOMINGO: Sure.
KERN: And do what would be necessary. So basically six months to comply with all those
conditions, being that they’ve basically already got -.
DOMINGO: Yeah.
KERN:To where they need to be. Yeah?
DOMINGO: Yes.
KERN: Okay. And is that seconded?
ISHIBASHI: Second.
KERN: Any other discussion? And you’ve seen the conditions now and you’re totally okay
with those, correct?
T. ROBESON: Yes, sir.
COTTLE: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Maija.
COTTLE: Is the Commission okay with gravel parking, or did you want paved parking?
KERN: I’m personally okay with gravel. But Commissioner Domingo made the motion so -.
DOMINGO: Thanks, thank you very much for -. You know, in view of the fact that traffic
would be at a minimum at the very beginning -. But once they get to know that their bread is the
best on the island that will attract people to come in. And might be this approval should be given
as is but at a later date to be reviewed, is that possible? At a later date to be reviewed if -?
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KERN: How do we do that? That’s kind of challenging. The only way we could really do that
is to put a time limit on the entire thing for five years or so.
DOMINGO: Yeah, okay.
KERN: But -.
DOMINGO: I think we have that. That’s, a five-year limit is common to all applications?
KERN: No, that is not.
DOMIGNO: It’s not, okay. Probably, yeah, we should -. What’s the life of this permit?
COTTLE: It runs with the land.
DOMINGO: Runs with the land?
COTTLE: Yes.
DOMINGO:For review, for review purposes I think we should have a time that we can review
this. You guys have given some people in West Hawai‘i perpetual special permits I understand.
This is not -?
COTTLE: Usually special permits run with the land. There have been times when the
Commission has put a five-year time limit on the life of the permit; and that’s usually to allow
the applicant to relocate to an area more appropriate for that land use, although the Commission
just recently did put a five-year life of permit on the community store special permit in Hawaiian
Paradise Park; and there was no relocation requirement with that. So -.
DOMINGO: Okay.
KERN: The purpose of that was to kind of flush out some other areas where they could possibly
relocate that one person there. Anyways, no need?
DOMINGO:No need.
KERN: No need?
DOMINGO: I say that because if the people come and they find that parking is inadequate and
very cumbersome and that it would affect their cars and tires, they wouldn’t come there.
KERN: Right.
DOMINGO: You would lose business.
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T. ROBESON: Exactly. I was just going to say business would dictate.
DOMINGO: Yeah, business would dictate that.
T.ROBESON: IfI need it,it’s going to be done because business would dictate it, yeah.
DOMINGO: True; and nobody would have to tell you to do it.
KERN: Okay?
DOMINGO: Yeah.
KERN: So we have a motion, it has been seconded. We’ve had clarification. Any discussion?
Seeing none, ta da ta da. Maija.
COTTLE: Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the Commission, the vote before you is to
approve the special permit with the conditions stated. Commissioner Domingo?
DOMINGO: Aye.
COTTLE: Commissioner Ishibashi?
ISHIBASHI: Aye.
COTTLE: Commissioner Au?
AU: Yes.
COTTLE: Commissioner Ono?
ONO: Aye.
COTTLE: And Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Aye.
COTTLE: Okay, the motion passes, five -zero.
KERN: You will notified in writing. Thank you very much.
MELROSE: Thank you very much for the time it took to deal with this one. I understand the
complexity of it but I really appreciate the time and sincerity of the effort. Thank you.
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The discussion ended at 11:59 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary
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