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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-04-07 TFirst PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT APRIL 7, 2006 A regularly advertised hearing on the application filed by FIRST SAMOAN was called to order at 10:40 a.m. in the CONGREGATION CHURCH (SPP 06-000022) County Building, Councilroom - Room 201, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman C. Kimo Alameda presiding. PRESENT:C. Kimo AlamedaABSENT & EXCUSED: Allen Salavea Fred Galdones Bill Graham AndrewIwashita Jeffrey McCall Rene€ Siracusa Rodney Watanabe Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher J. Yuen, Planning Director Norman Hayashi, Planning Program Manager Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 28 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: FIRST SAMOAN CONGREGATION CHURCH (SPP 06-000022) Special Permit to allow the establishment of a church and related improvements on 3 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located along the thth northeast side of 38 Avenue, approximately 740 feet from the 38 Avenue  Laniuma Street intersection, Orchidland Estates Subdivision, Keaau, Puna, Hawaii, Tax Map Key: 1-6-11:119. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners, before us today is Agenda Item No. 3. The applicant is the First Samoan Congregation Church (SPP 06-000022). It€s a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a church and related improvements on 3 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District. I€ll let staff go into detail with this application, but please note that there is a request for standing which I€d like to address right after staff makes theirpresentationsothatwecankindofsetthetoneforhowthisproceedingwillgo. Mr. Darrow? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I can direct the Commissioners€ attention to thelocationmap.TheareaofthisapplicationiswithinthePunadistrictofHawaii,more specifically within Orchidland Estates Subdivision, which is mainly identified in blue. The blue representszoningAgricultural3acres,Countyzoning.ThelightergreenrepresentsAgricultural 1 acre. The line moving in a north-south direction identified in this area is the Keaau-Pahoa Road.Accesstothisparticularpropertythattheapplicationislocatedonwouldbeproposed thth from Pohaku Place onto 35 Avenue, onto Laniuma Street, and then onto 38 Avenue. All the 1EXHIBIT B th way up from the Keaau-Pahoa Road to the intersection of 38 Avenue and Laniuma is paved; th and 38 Avenue is gravel and red cinder. There are photos being passed around to the Commissioners that shows what the conditions of the roadways are. The applicant in this case, the First Samoan Congregational Christian Church, is requesting a special permit for the establishment of a church on 3 acres of land within the State Land Use Agricultural District. th Referring to the applicant€s proposed site plan, 38 Avenue is identified at the bottom of the map. Laniuma Street would be in this particular location. The applicants are proposing a 40- by 90-foot structure for the church and parking area, as well as drainage and landscaping improvements on the property. There are several alternative th accesses. One would be, again, as mentioned, from Pohaku Place to Laniuma and then to 30 th Avenue. The other possible access would be from Orchidland Drive on to 38 Avenue. This is approximately .7 miles from the proposed locationto the intersection of Orchidland Drive. The members of the association also mentioned that there could be people that might propose to come to the church from within the subdivision, and more specifically in the Olaa area. I€d like to mention a few conditions. Condition No. 3 specifically states that special events held in the evenings such as funerals, wedding, so forth, shall end no later than 8:30 p.m. Condition 4, this will require the applicant to widen the existing gravel red cinder road from the intersection of Laniuma Street to the southeast portion of their property. They would need to widen it to 20 feet in width to allow for two-way traffic with gravel or red cinder. The applicant shall be required, Condition No. 5, the applicant shall be required to pay an adjusted road maintenance fee for the use of a church to the Orchidland Community Association. The Association requires thatfeeownerspayaroadmaintenancefee,andforparticularusesotherthanresidentialthey increase that fee. Condition 6, 7 and 8 will deal with issues such as fire protection, the wastewater system, as well as runoff. Proposed hours of the church at this time are Sunday mornings from 9:00 a.m. to 12 noon and Wednesday evenings from 6:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. We have received numerous letters, mainly of opposition, to this request. I should bring to your attention that there have been two surrounding property owners that have notified the Planning Department that they were not notified. That information was relayed to the applicant; and they have submitted a letter stating that they have sent out the notification to those two owners that st were not notified. The second notification was untimely. It was sent out on March 31 , which was within the 10 days prior to the hearing. The applicant has submitted a letterstating that the reason for that was that the secretary to the church apparently had taken a trip and had the key to the mailbox; and it was unfortunate, but we needed to let the Commissioners know. There are two petitions for standing in a contested case hearing. One has been submitted by the Orchidland Community Association, who is responsible for maintaining the roadways, as well as representing those owners that may not be able to represent themselves at this time. And we have also received a petition from Mr. Michael Upham who is the owner, the adjacent owner of thepropertytothenorthidentifiedinthisarea. ThePlanningDirectorisrecommendingthatthePlanningCommissionapprovethisapplication. Are there any questions? 2EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Commissioner Galdones? GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Chair. Jeff, in light of the statement you made thatthere were two residents who were not properly noticed, whatdoes that do to the application before us? Is it still a valid application for consideration? DARROW:If I could defer that question to Corp. Counsel. GALDONES:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Jeff, just to clarify, there were two parties who shouldhavegottennoticebutwerenotgivennoticeinitially,correct? DARROW:Correct. TORIGOE:Buttheyhavereceivednoticesincethen? DARROW:It€smyunderstandingthattheapplicantshavesentoutthenotification. Whether or not the parties have received it, I€m not sure. TORIGOE:Okay. Well, at this point, you know, we don€t normally require each of the surrounding property owners to come in and verify that they€ve received notice. Normally we rely on the applicant€s verification whether notices have been sent. The notice requirements under the Zoning Code also are not jurisdictional in nature, you know, that is if you fail to make the notice properly it doesn€t automatically nullify the application. So at this point I think we need to just exercise some common sense and see if anybody rights are prejudiced. If there is somebody who has been hurt or prejudiced by the lateness of the notice, then you need to look at whether you can cure that by perhaps giving a little more time for anybody interested to come in and file for a contested case. One thing you could do is if it seems that everyone who should have gotten notice has gotten notice then you could at this point go ahead and deal with the contested case requests that have come in and see if anybody has any objections, any of the parties have any objections to proceeding on that basis. And if someone else comes up and says, hey, I was hurt later on, I should have been allowed to file for a contested case, or should have been allowed to testify, then we need to look at what the effects are of those claims when they arise. GALDONES:Mr. Chair? ALAMEDA:Commissioner Galdones. GALDONES:In light of the explanation by Counsel, I€ll reserve my concerns until such time that we act upon the petition for standing in a contested case hearing. Because if those are approved, the Commission will not be acting upon this application immediately, no decisions will be made on this application today, and it will give those residents living within the area that 3EXHIBIT B did not get notified, they will get an opportunity to make heir presentation later on. So I will reserve any concerns about the two residents until we act upon the petition for standing. ALAMEDA:The requests for standing. Okay. Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Chair, you know, in past applications we have - and I don€t see any gate on that site plan, but that doesn€t mean they wouldn€t necessarily put a gate in the future -- we have put in conditions that require the gate to be set back from a roadway, yeah? And I€m wondering if that€s something that we should include as one of the conditions. That€s one of them, one of my questions. The second one is I believe we approved the prior application for a church within this same subdivision and I think there was some condition about amplified music, and I€m wondering -. SIRACUSA:No, it was in Volcano. ALAMEDA:Yeah, I think that was in Volcano. SIRACUSA:That was Volcano. WATANABE:That was Volcano, oh, well, okay. I€m wondering if we should address thatthough. ALAMEDA:The gate you mean? WATANABE:The gate, and maybe even the amplified music, seeing that we do have a couple of adjoining properties that are either opposed or applying for contested case standing. ALAMEDA:Would you care to answer that, Mr. Darrow? Or shall we save that as a part of a discussion item after we vote on whether the request for standing is approved, or you€d like -? WATANABE:Well, I was hoping to give them a heads up. So if that€s something they want to consider that, I€m assuming that we€re going ahead with the contested case, we€re going to grant standing. But that would give them time to address some of those things so that the next time we wouldn€t be -. ALAMEDA:Okay. Mr. Darrow? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could just address Commissioner Galdones€ concern. I wanted to also mention that those two parties that were not notified had submitted letters to the Planning Commission. So they in some way or another were notified of this particular application, whether or not it was from a mailing or not. But they had submitted testimony, written testimony, for this application. One more, we have received a letter this morning from Mr. Mya Paw€U, and that I believe has been passed out to the Commissioners. Thank you, Mr. Chair. ALAMEDA:Any follow-up, Commissioner Watanabe? 4EXHIBIT B WATANABE:No. ALAMEDA:Okay. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes. I also feel that we should be dealing with the question of the standing. ALAMEDA:Okay, very good. SIRACUSA:But I just wanted to throw something else into the pot that I feel should be looked at when it goes to whatever hearing. ALAMEDA:Okay. SIRACUSA:AndthatisthatinthebackgroundreportonNo.19aboutarchaeological, floral and fauna resources, that no study or survey has been done -. But we also have a letter from Professor Hart at UH, and his specialty is native birds, and I€ve worked with him the past that€s how I know, and he has raised some questions that there are some rare native birds on the property. So I€m having a feeling that we might want to insist on a flora, fauna, biological survey of the property before any decisions are made, or maybe even before it goes to contested case. I€m not sure what the procedure would be, what would come first. Maybe Mr. Torigoe could enlighten me on that. ALAMEDA:Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Thank you, Mr. Chair. Your rules say that the first order of business ought to decide on standing. And then we can look at the rules and see if the Commission would like to impose a requirement, you know, that they go ahead and get some studies done before the contested case is concluded. ALAMEDA:Okay. SIRACUSA:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Any motion to either approve or deny standing at this time, or do we need more clarification before doing that? SIRACUSA:I would make a motion to give standing, to approve standing to the parties that have applied for it, Upham -. ALAMEDA:Okay. Let me ask first if the applicant can come forward. I€m just being notified by our Corp. Counsel -. SIRACUSA:Oops, okay. ALAMEDA:That the applicant should come forward first. Mr. Torigoe, would you like to explain that? 5EXHIBIT B TORIGOE:Yeah, I think we need to give the applicant and the people who are petitioning for standing a chance to, you know, just present their positions on this. ALAMEDA:Okay. Sorry I jumped the gun a little bit. Now, Mr. Torigoe, does that allow my Fellow Commissioners to question the applicants? TORIGOE:At this point I think we€re just dealing with the standing issue. So if there are questions that are relevant to standing, yes. ALAMEDA:Okay. Do I need to swear everybody in -? TORIGOE:Are the applicants for standing here as well? I see Mr. Ely. ALAMEDA:Would the applicant and applicants for standing please come forward. CommissionerGaldones. GALDONES:Well,Mr.Chair? ALAMEDA:Sure. GALDONES:Mr.Torigoe,wewillbeaddressingthetwopetitionsthathavebeen submitted, so those applications for petition for standing is the issue that we will be dealing with right now? TORIGOE:Right now, yes. ALAMEDA:Let me just, for the public, you know, just because we€re Commissioners, we€re still trying to understand how the procedures work, so bear with us. But from what I understand, it seems like there€s a request for standing which means that -. Could you explain kind of like in layman€s terms how that procedure unfolds? TORIGOE:Sure. But basically when a church comes in and asks for a special permit like this, because the Planning Commission will make the final decision, the law allows other people who may have a special interest, such as next door neighbors or associations who may have to take care of the roads, allows parties with an interest that€s different from, you know, just the general public to ask the Commission for standing in a contested case. It means that if you€re a neighbor with a special interest, for instance, you may be allowed to participate in kind of a formal hearing, almost like a trial but not quite as, you know, formal as a trial where the people who are interested and perhaps oppose the application will come before a hearings officer and eventually before, or eventually before the Planning Commission. And you€ll basically get the present evidence, question the other side€s witnesses and basically ask the hearings officer to make a recommendation, if there€s a hearings officer; and the Commission will eventually have to make a decision based on that trial-like record. So it does involve a bit of a commitment on everyone involved. But, you know, that€s the gist of it. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners, did we miss anything? Commissioner Siracusa. 6EXHIBIT B SIRACUSA:I just want to clarify that what we€re asking the people at the table to do right now is to just address strictly the issue of standing in a contested case, is that accurate, not to discuss the whole project, is that accurate? ALAMEDA:That€s what I€d prefer. But Mr. Torigoe, is that okay? TORIGOE:Yes. That€s the point of what we€re doing right now, is just to decide whether the applicants for standing have enough of a special interest that€s different from that of the general public so that they should be allowed to go ahead and be involved in a formal contested case, a trial-like proceeding, to oppose, you know, the application. And so we want to allow the applicants to present the reasons why they think they are entitled to a contested case; and then we should give the applicant€s representative a chance also to respond to that. And often times, you know, if it is somebody who clearly has a special interest different from the general public, you know, oftentimes the parties agree that, yes, we should allow standing. But that€sreallyuptotheparties. ALAMEDA:Okay,verygood.SoI€llsweareverybodyin? TORIGOE:Ys. ALAMEDA:Okay,couldyoupleaseraiseyourrighthand.Doyouswearoraffirmto tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFERS:I do. ALAMEDA:Thank you. I guess we can start off on my left. Will you please state your name and address for the record. ELY:My name is Bob Ely and I represent the Orchidland Community Association; and their address is Post Office Box 280, Keaau. ALAMEDA:Okay. ELY:And we would claim that we have standing because Orchidland Community Association is responsible for the maintenance of the road, we bear the liability and so we€re associated with the roads, and we represent the interests of the general membership in terms of the development of the community, the growth. ALAMEDA:Okay. Thank you for sharing that. Sir, could you please state your name and address for the record. UPHAM:My name is Michael Upham. My PO Box number is 423, Keaau. ALAMEDA:Okay. And is there a request for standing on your part as well? UPHAM:I am requesting standing in this case. ALAMEDA:Okay. And your rationale for requesting standing? 7EXHIBIT B UPHAM:I live on a relatively long and narrow spaghetti lot and I share abouta 750- foot border with the property, so all their activities are going to be within a stone€s throw of my house. ALAMEDA:Okay. Fellow Commissioners, we have two community members who have presented their rationale for why they want to take this to a different level. I would like to ask the applicant, do you have any responses to these two citizens? FUIAVA:Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and also Planning Commissioners. First of all, the church was well established because of some of the students from the UH and also some of the family who are from Hilo, and also reside in the Puna side area, trying to find a place of worship and a permanent place to gather. And we looked into the Puna area and the place that came up or the property that was on sale was the one within the Orchidland Estates Subdivision.Andwewerehopingandbelievingthatwecouldbeahelporsomekindofmentor to the community, you know. And I didn€t have in mind, on behalf of this First Samoan Congregational Christian Church, did not have in mind that it will be a burden to the community or to some of the neighbors, and this place would hopefully be a benefit to the community and some of the people and also those who are seeking support and especially spiritual, emotionally, physically; and that€s what it is, the purpose of this church. Thank you very much. ALAMEDA:Could you please state your name and address. I forgot to mention that. FUIAVA:I€m sorry. My name is Monotui. You may call me Tui, it€s easier. If you ought to forget me, just remember when you sneeze, tui. You know that€s an easy way to remember me. But I€m PO Box, First Samoan Congregational Christian Church, PO Box 305, Keaau, 96749. Thank you very much. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Commissioner Galdones. GALDONES:Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Tui, do you have any reason why the Planning Commission should not grant the petition for standing to Mr. Upham and also to the Orchidland Community? FUIAVA:There€s one thing in mind that I have, it€s if we do not have the chance, if you grant them the chance of a standing, contested, I don€t know, I€m looking at we do follow the procedures and we have fulfilled all of the requirements that you€ve asked for. And it€s not for me to ask them not to contested this. We have all opinions, that€s my way of looking at it. My perspective is seeing everybody has a right to speak their mind. But as far as granting them a contested, I don€t know, that€s something I believe that also will, it will probably hinder us from putting up a church. That€s the only thing I€m looking at, that€s all. ALAMEDA:Okay. Commissioner Watanabe, no? WATANABE:No, no real questions for this -. I€m actually ready to make a motion. ALAMEDA:Okay. 8EXHIBIT B SIRACUSA:I€m -. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes. I would feel a little more comfortable if Mr. Tui understood alittle bit better that the idea of the contested case is to allow his neighbors the right to have their say and to bring out all the issues that they€re concerned about which otherwise might not surface. And he didn€t really seem to understand it when he was answering Mr. Galdones€ question about whether or not he felt they should have standing. I supposethe question would be do you think that these two people who are asking for contested case have a concern that is different, a concern about your project that is different from that of, say, the general public, say somebody living in Hilo? FUIAVA:I would say, no, but they€re allowed to express their concerns. Thank you verymuch. SIRACUSA:Thankyou. ALAMEDA:Thankyou.IthinkIheardyou,too,Tui.Itsoundedlikeinyouranswer to Commissioner Galdones it was that you don€t have a problem with them expressing their concerns; and if it€s in a standard case, very formal type setting, that€s okay. It€s just that it sounded like that may influence whether or not the church actually becomes, evolves. It sounds like you€re kind of concern about that. FUIAVA:Yeah correct. Thank you. ALAMEDA:Okay. Any other comments before we entertain a motion? SIRACUSA:Well, just that a contested case would not, it would delay the process for you, there€s no doubt about that because it€s time-consuming. But it may end up ruling in your favor because more issues may come out; on the other hand, it may end up not ruling in your favor. But certainly a lot more detail and information could come out during a contested case than otherwise. I believe Commissioner Galdones wants to say something else, huh? ALAMEDA:Okay, let me go to Mr. Torigoe, first. Go ahead, Ivan. TORIGOE:Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to add that the level of formality that you have in a contested case is really up to the parties. You know, if you all don€t have attorneys and you want to do things fairly simply, you can agree with whoever is holding the contested case hearing, you know, to simplify the procedures. So that€s one thing to keep in mind. FUIAVA:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Okay. Commissioner Galdones. GALDONES:Well, I, like Commissioner Watanabe, I believe the questions that we have to deal with to decide whether to grant the petition for standing in a contested case hearing has been met; and I€m satisfied with Mr. Tui€s response. I believe he€s clear what the process is that 9EXHIBIT B we€re going through. And, perhaps, Mr. Chair, after we decide whether we€re going to grant the petition or not, then perhaps you can advise the parties and also the community because there are a lot of community people who have signed up to testify, explain to them the process we are going to go through after we deal with the petition. And I would yield to my colleague, Mr. Watanabe, for the motion. WATANABE:Maybe you can make it. ALAMEDA:I€m willing to entertain a motion on the request for standing, fellow Commissioners. Commissioner Galdones? GALDONES:Mr. Chairman, if there is any objection, I will change my motion. But I would like to deal with both motions because I believe that they have a special interest in this application. And my motion would be that the Orchidland Community Association Incorporation€sandMichaelUpham€spetitionsforstandinginacontestedcasehearingbe granted. WATANABE:I second. ALAMEDA:Motion was made by Commissioner Galdones, seconded by Commissioner Watanabe. Discussion? Seeing none, staff. DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Galdones? GALDONES:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:And Mr. Chairman? 10EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Aye. DARROW:The motion passes to grant standing to both Orchidland Community Association and to Mr. Michael Upham. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Let€s discuss the idea of either, cause we could hear it as a body or we could outsource it, which means we would hire a hearings officer; and then they could hear your case, if you will. So, questions? Commissioner Watanabe. WATANABE:Comment more. ALAMEDA:Sure. WATANABE:As long as we can afford it, I would prefer to outsource it. ALAMEDA:Okay. Meaning a hearing officer? WATANABE:Have, hire a hearings officer. ALAMEDA:Hearing officer, okay. Any other comments? Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:I was going to make a motion that we hire, that we direct the Planning Director to hire a hearings officer to hear this, assuming there€s enough funds. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:I would like the Planning Director to address that question then; and let us know. YUEN:We have funds. ALAMEDA:Okay, very good. Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Yeah, the concern that Commissioner Siracusa brought up about what other conditions based on the letter from Mr. Hart, should that be addressed by the Commission or left up to the hearings officer if we, the procedure, how should we handle that? ALAMEDA:Yeah, good question. Thank you, Commissioner Iwashita. Mr. Director? YUEN:Well, I think the comments of the Planning Commission Member put the applicant on notice that at least one Planning Commission Member would like more information and study on that subject. It€s then up to the applicant whether they do that or not. That can affect, you know, your decision. If you feel that the applicant has not proven that their special permit will not have an adverse effect on the environment and surrounding properties then you can vote against them. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita? 11EXHIBIT B IWASHITA:Given that then I€d like to also add my concern on the record that the issues about the native fauna and so forth raised by Professor Hart really should be addressed by the applicant also in the further proceedings on this matter. ALAMEDA:Thank you, Commissioner Iwashita. Other comments before I entertain a motion to outsource? Did you -? MCCALL:Point of order, I believe I did make a motion. ALAMEDA:Okay. Motion was made by Commissioner McCall to outsource. Second? SIRACUSA:I€ll second it. ALAMEDA:Seconded by Commissioner Siracusa. Staff? DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Galdones? GALDONES:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Aye. DARROW:And Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA:Aye. DARROW:The motion passes to outsource the contested case hearing, seven to zero. ALAMEDA:Thank you. So what that means to the public is that this application will be heard in front of a hearings officer at a time designated, I guess, agreed upon by both the folks who are contesting and the applicant. However, we do have testimony today; and I guess the 12EXHIBIT B procedural aspects of this is that we do allow for testimony, you know, some of the testifiers. But just know that you€ll have another opportunity to testify as well. So you have a choice. You can either, you know, testify here, and then testify again in front of the hearing officer. So, anything, Commissioner McCall? MCCALL:Yeah, maybe just to direct the audience and whatever that this will be heard by a hearings officer. He will make a recommendation to the Planning Commission, and the decision will be made by the Planning Commission at a later date after we€ve gotten the recommendation. You know, so that we do not need to, you know, we will look at his recommendation, but the decision will be made by the Planning Commission. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:And I just wanted to say in regards to those who are here today that might wanttotestify,Iguess,there€sprobablyreallythreeopportunitiestotestify.Youcantestify today, you can testify when the contested case hearing is held because that will be also open to the public, and then after that is all over, it comes back to us again for our decision. So, again, that€s an opportunity testify. And obviously we don€t encourage people to just say the same thing over and over, because we€re going to get a record of everything. So you might want to choose which is the time you would like to testify. ALAMEDA:So you€re all free to testify today. All right, that€s about it. So then should we just go forward as if it was an application again, invite the applicant up and just move forward in that aspect, or -? TORIGOE:At this point you€ve basically set it for a contested case hearing before a hearings officer. You can give the applicant an opportunity to speak, ask if there€s anything else he has to say regarding that; but, you know, it€s going to go to a hearings officers. So at this point you just basically take public testimony, unless the parties have something that they feel they need to put on the record now. ALAMEDA:Okay. Let me ask the applicant, Mr. Tui, is there anything else you€d like to share with us regarding this application for the record before I ask you to be seated? FUIAVA:Yeah, I guess I don€t have much to say right now at the moment. We€ll wait till the time, thank you. ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you. Anything else to add? ELY:Yes. ALAMEDA:Will this be considered testimony then if I go into this aspect? TORIGOE:Well, I guess at this point they€re admitted as parties. So at this point you€re just asking if there€s anything else that they feel needs to be dealt with before you go into the contested case hearing. 13EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Okay. Is there anything else that needs to be dealt with before we move to the contested case? ELY:Well, I run the risk of being redundant because I think some of this will be presented at the contested case. But I would like to say that there is overwhelming opposition to this project. As of last week there were 25 letters in the file opposing this project and there was a petition with 49 signatures. Orchidland Community Association is also strongly opposed; and our objections have noting to do with religion but rather with controlling the growth in the development of our own community. I would like to elaborate a little bit on the notification issue, the deficiencies of the church. The th first notification, there was no first notification following the February 10 Planning Department€s acceptance. The second notification, there was no second notification in the 10- day period from the hearing date being set and the church being notified. Signage, there was no sign posted. As of yesterday, there was no proof of mailing. Jeff did earlier this week alert the church that they were deficient in a number of these areas; and they rushed to try to correct some of them. For example, they went out and they put an 8 œ by 11 sheet of paper on the property for the signage. The application itself is really lacking. There are three buildings mentioned and the plot plans shows only one. Jeff told me this morning the church says this is a typographical error. There are no elevations required by the instruction. But the biggest issue is that the application says thatthey€retalkingaboutacongregationof70people.InNovember,thechurchmadea presentation to the Orchidland Board of Directors; and at that time they said they were 150 people in the congregation. And a letter to the neighbors last year said there were 300 members. You know, we really cannot make a reasonable defense when we don€t know what we€re dealing with here, whether this is a 70 or four times 70, 300 people. I€m really a novice at this but it seems that just on the basis of this the application should be denied right now. But it probably won€t be so let me go on with a couple of other things. The application states -. ALAMEDA:Excuse me, excuse me. Sorry, Mr. Ely. ELY:Yes? ALAMEDA:Real quick, I just want to check with our Corp. Counsel if we€re following proper protocol. Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Well, I think at this point, again, the matter is going through a contested case hearing and so that€s where you would want to present all your evidence. ELY:All right. ALAMEDA:Okay. Can I ask them to be seated and we can entertain testimony from the audience? TORIGOE:Yeah, well, I don€t know if Mr. Upham has anything else relevant to the standing and to sending the matter to a contested case. 14EXHIBIT B ELY:Wait, before any -. There is one other issue that I would like to bring up at this point because perhaps we could persuade the Commission to ask for another condition on the application. Is that appropriate at this point? ALAMEDA:Thanks for asking. Hold on. TORIGOE:Again, I think, you know, that would be going to the merits of the matter; and that probably is best handled in a contested case proceeding. ALAMEDA:Yeah. Thank you, thank you for asking. SIRACUSA:I have a question. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:I have a question of Corp. Counsel. The questions about notification and everything,dotheybecomemootnowthatwe€vegrantedcontestedcase?Andaslongasthey proceed properly with notification of the contested case, you know, in a timely way and all that, does make the previous issues moot? TORIGOE:Well, I wouldn€t say completely moot. If somebody comes and shows up who nobody knows about at this point and is able to show that they should have gotten notice and were prejudiced by that, you know, then we may have to look at what the results is of that. SIRACUSA:So Mr. Ely€s comments are valid about that? TORIGOE:Well, the Commission is on notice of the notice issues; and I€m sure that if someone shows up during the contested case procedures and makes a reasonable case that they should have gotten notice or gotten hurt because they didn€t get notice, then the hearings officer should address that. And if he fails to do so when it comes back to the Commission, then the Commission should address that. SIRACUSA:Thank you for clarifying that. ALAMEDA:Excuse me, I€m going to lean towards having kind of everybody be seated at this time. Is that appropriate? TORIGOE:Yeah, that€s fine. Again, I wasn€t sure if Mr. Upham had a chance to say anything or he felt needed to be said at this point regarding the standing issues and going through a contested case. ALAMEDA:Mr. Upham, anything specific to standing? UPHAM:Yes. ALAMEDA:Go ahead. 15EXHIBIT B UPHAM:Unfortunately, because of the incomplete applications, as far as I€m concerned, there are a lot of details that Ican€t prepare for if we€re going to have a case hearing on this. So as far as site plan, I€ve been told that there was going to be a church, parking lot, parsonage, other things, I don€t know what. I can€t prepare for any kind of case hearing thing if I don€t have these details; and this application I feel is incomplete. And I feel that I€ll be put at a disadvantage if I have to prepare for a hearing where I€m going to show up and they€re going to have details that I don€t even know about. So how can that be addressed that I can be informed before and -. ALAMEDA:Okay, that€s a great question, right on the mark. TORIGOE:Yeah, you may want to -. ALAMEDA:Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Once the hearings officer is identified, then you may want to talk with the hearingsofficer,raisethoseconcerns,andseeifthatmightbesomethingthatyouallcanhavea conference about and discuss whether the application really has sufficient information and details for the hearings officer to hold the hearings. And it remains the applicant€s burden to provide sufficient information; and if the applicant for whatever reason fails to do that, then the hearings officer will have to take a look at that and may end up saying, well, you know, the applicant has just failed to carry his burden of providing sufficient information and proving that he€s entitled to the permit. And the hearings officer may then refer it back to the Commission with a recommendation for denial on that basis, if the condition of the application is such that it€s not capable of being properly contested. ALAMEDA:Did you hear that, Mr. Ely? ELY:Yes, I understood, I understood. ALAMEDA:Okay. Thank you. Mr. Tui, you have any comments regarding, again, the standing request? FUIAVA:Yeah. Can the Chair allow me to say just a few things to help my mind. I know that Jeff brought up the church, the building is 40 by 90. I just want to keep in mind and inform you that the 90 is including the bathrooms in there and also the stage. That€s what is included inside that length of the church. Another thing, that I just want to apologize for the letters that went out. The two people that are property owners that we sent out late is because a different owner has bought that property. That€s what it was. And that was the reason why I was informed later on -. And I tried my best to send out the letters as soon as possible; and that€s what it was. And according to, to respond to some of the things that, I believe back when we had a meeting, we went there to meet with the Association to try to work things out, resolve this. I know I mentioned it earlier about, I mean, Bob has brought it up about 300 members, the letters and stuffs. It€s because we don€t, in reality we don€t have 300 members. But the 300 consists of the community, the community, we€re talking about the Samoan community itself within. It€s not 16EXHIBIT B the members of the church. And as far as the 70 and 46 numbers of the church, it€s because each year or each semester the students that come from Samoa don€t have families, so the church is a place where they have support. And when the students come, we have 30 or 20. So, therefore, the numbers are very flexible. So it depends on the semester. That€s what it is, to explain that. Thank you very much. ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you, Tui. All right, now you may be seated. Okay, Fellow Commissioners, we are at the point where we can take testimony, or at least some of it prior to lunch. There are 14 individuals that signed up. However, it may be that not all 14 would want to share or provide testimony today given that this would, there will be different opportunities to provide testimony. So I€m leaning towards starting off with some of testifiers, maybe go to 12, and take lunch then, and then come back. But I don€t know, what€s your taking on this? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:MayIsuggesttheChairmaybepollthosewhosignedup,seewhowants to testify and who doesn€t, and -? ALAMEDA:Okay. That€s new, we could try that. Let me see -. Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Well, maybe just go forward and we€ll see where we€re at as the clock goes. ALAMEDA:Oh, just go forward and see where we are. Okay, we€ll, let€s do that then. Let me ask, Ole€ Fulks? FULKS:Yes. ALAMEDA:Please come forward. Joshua Grotkin. I mean, let me know if you would like to provide testimony now, or with the hearings officer, or when we gather once again for the third time. It€s up to you. FULKS:I€d like to give it today. ALAMEDA:Okay, you can come forward. You can come forward and have a seat. And also know that if you give it today it will be for the record, which we will have access to. So you may choose not to give it again. It will be kind of redundant in that respect. So how about Joshua Grotkin. Is there a Joshua? GROTKIN:Yes. ALAMEDA:Would you like to give it today or -? GROTKIN:No. ALAMEDA:Today? GROTKIN:No. 17EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Okay. How about a Richard Heller. HELLER:Yes. ALAMEDA:Would you like to give it today? HELLER:I€ll give now and possibly later. Okay, you may, please step forward. And while you€re stepping forward, CommissionerGaldones, do you have any thoughts on how we€re proceeding at this time? GALDONES:Yes, Mr. Chair. ALAMEDA:Sure. GALDONES:I€d like to suggest, not really knowing how many of the 14 who had signedupwillactuallybegivingtestimonytoday,induerespecttoallthosewhoarewaiting around, if they could limit their testimony to three minutes so that it will give everybody an equal opportunity, and try to contain it to a shorter period and get to the point. I think everybody would appreciate that. ALAMEDA:That€s a good idea. Thank you for that recommendation. How about a Sugalu Timoteo? TIMOTEO:Can I defer my presentation. ALAMEDA:Defer, okay, thank you. Okay, thank you, Sugalu. How about Oscar Cruz? CRUZ:I€ll probably testify at the next meeting. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Sherri Carden? CARDEN:I€d like to speak. ALAMEDA:Sure. You may come forward and have a seat. Michael Upham. UPHAM:I€m actually one of the participants. ALAMEDA:Oh, okay. UPHAM:Sorry. I didn€t know, I thought I had to sign in. ALAMEDA:No problem. How about one more, Michael Dziatko? DZIATKO:Not today. ALAMEDA:You want to defer? 18EXHIBIT B DZIATKO:Not today. ALAMEDA:Not today, okay. Thank you, Michael. Victor Desotipo? DESOTIPO:Not today. ALAMEDA:Not today. How about Linda DeJoria? DEJORIA:I€ll wait. ALAMEDA:Okay. I€m sorry, I know I€m torturing your last names there, forgive me. Daniel Skomp, today? SKOMP:IfIcould. ALAMEDA:Sure.Youmaystepforward.Okay,canIswearallyouinatthistime. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:Yes, I do. ALAMEDA:Fantastic. Can we please start on my left. Again, taking Commissioner Galdones€ recommendation into consideration, could you please limit your testimony to three minutes, and make it brief, to the point. We€d appreciated that. Mr. Fulks? R. HELLER:Aloha, my name is Richard Heller. ALAMEDA:Mr. Heller. th R. HELLER:One corner, my physical address is 16-1420 on 38 Avenue, one corner is across the street from the church property in question. I bought my property because it was away from the highway and commercial development. The parcel next to me became available so I purchased it two years ago. The sole purpose was, for that purpose was to prevent someone from tearing everything up and raising pigs or chickens. Most of us purchased in this area because of the ohia forest and the privacy it provided. Please allow us to keep our dreams alive. Commercialdevelopmentbelongsnearthehighwaywheretheyhaveaccessforemergency vehicles and also their own vehicles. Potable water is also available off the highway. And this is theinformationonthemembershipthathaschangedsomanytimes.Itwouldreallycreatea th hardship on 38 Avenue. And who€s going to be responsible for that? Overflow parking on the narrowstreetsisalsoaconcernforus.Andwemaynothaveaccesstoourpropertyattimesifa lot of people are coming. Thank you very much. ALAMEDA:Thank you very much, Mr. Heller. Will you please state your name and addressfortherecord,andyoumayproceed. 19EXHIBIT B SKOMP:Good morning. My name is Dan Skomp, my physical address is 16-336 th Laniuma Street, which is actually at the intersection of 38 and Laniuma; and I thank the Commission for being allowed to speak, and I will be very, very brief. ALAMEDA:Thank you. SKOMP:I€ve lived in that property for 25 years, little more than 25 years. My children were raised there, my grandchildren are there now. I, too, am concerned about the flow of traffic; and that€s, I think, my main first concern. My second concern was brought up by Commissioner Siracusa herself; and that is I think you folks would have to see that property to see the extent of the foliage and the animals that live on it. There are beautiful huge trees that are there now, quite unusual, actually, in that area; and it€s another reason I purchased there as well. Theother,myconcernistheroads.Wehaveonlyveryrecentlygotourroadpaved;and,again, I€ve lived there for 25 years and sometimes it€s almost inaccessible. Thirty-eighth street from Laniuma is quite a roller coaster little thing; and when it rains it washes out completely. There have been times, quite frequent times, when it is completely impassable. I think those are my concerns. And I€m not sure that I could come back to the other meetings, and that€s why I thank the Commission for my speech today. Thank you. ALAMEDA:That€s good; and that€s why we€re allowing for testimony today, for some of you who took off from work. Any questions for our testifiers? And you can backtrack. I€m sorry, I forgot to ask, with Mr. Heller. SIRACUSA:Yeah, well, I just wanted to mention that if any of you, you know, are unable to come back again when you would have, say, to the contested hearing when you had more time to expand on what you have to say or maybe bring some, you know, evidence in, that you could always submit it in writing. Is that correct, Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Yes. ALAMEDA:That€s correct. SIRACUSA:So that it would be part of the record. SKOMP:Thank you, Commissioner. SIRACUSA:And, for example, any pictures you have, for example, of native vegetation or native birds, that sort of thing, could be submitted as part of the record. SKOMP:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Thank you, Commissioner Siracusa. Any questions for Mr. Skomp? Seeing none, please state your name and address for the record, and you may proceed. FULKS:Very well. My name is Ole€ Fulks; and I€m an Orchidland resident. I live approximately two miles from the proposed project. As Chairman of the Hawaii Speleogical 20EXHIBIT B Survey I know the geology of the area very well. Orchidland sits in what we usually call the central subdivision corridor. But another name for that in geological terms is the Ailau Flow. The Ailau Flow came down from Kilauea Iki at approximately 1300-1400 and it terminated at Kaloli Point. So all our subdivisions are built on this flow. Now this is considered by most people as marginal agricultural lands. But there are some things that we can do very well in agriculture on those lands, as well as your old cane lands you may do even better, like for instance cock farms, piggeries, orchid farms, dog kennels and apiaries. I€m also the president of the Big Island Bee Keepers Association. Now I want to ask you today to uphold the integrity of the agricultural zoning. And even though we€re considered marginal Ag, like I say, we can do some things very well there; and the people who bought lots there expect to be able to do agriculture. Mr. Upham is a member of our bee club and he€s hoping to have an apiary there. Now these things could be a nuisance to a church next door, all these things that I€ve named. But the church would be the one out of place because churchesarenotagriculture.Andtheagriculture,yeah,it€sdefinitely,itcanbeanuisance.Hey, future people who come there, all those lots aren€t developed yet, but they have the right to do agriculture on those lots. So there could be future problems for the church later on from various agricultural developments. So I€m concerned about you guys upholding the agricultural designation of that area. ALAMEDA:Any questions, Commissioner Siracusa, for Mr. Fulks? SIRACUSA:Yes. Mr. Fulks, thank you for reminding us that you€re involved with the Speleological Society, and you know where the caves are. And I know there€s lots of pukas all over Puna. But could you tell us specifically to your knowledge are there any caves or tunnels in the area of the subject property? FULKS:I don€t know of any in that area although there€s what we call the D Road System of approximately, lined up with D Road in Hawaiian Acres. I would have to check on the map to see how that lines up. That is, and I don€t know, I haven€t explored anything below thth 8 Road in that system, but I€m sure there are things below 8 Road. But I don€t specifically know of anything in that area. SIRACUSA:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Siracusa, continue? SIRACUSA:Yes. I would hope that you would be able to do a little research on that so that you could bring it to the contested case hearing in case there was anything relevant. I mean if there€s nothing relevant then no need; but if there is the Commission always like to have as muchinformationatourfingertips,becausethemoredatawehavethebetterchancesarethatwe can make properly informed decisions. FULKS:I certainly will do that. As far as I know at this time there€s nothing relevantasfarspeleologicalconcerns. SIRACUSA:Thankyou. 21EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Very good. Any follow-up to that? Any other questions for Mr. Fulks? Seeing none, thank you very muchfor your testimony. Ma€am, could you please state your name and address for the record? th CARDEN:Thank you very much. My name is Sherri Carden, I live on 16-1436 39 Street, just two properties down from Laniuma; and my mailing address is HCR1 Box 4643 in Keaau 96749. And I want to thank this Commission for an opportunity to speak; and I do want to also let the Samoan Church know we do support spirituality in our community. We, as the Board of Directors, have created a vision and valued statement that specifies that nonagricultural use be restricted to the commercial areas and the urban areas; and I know that you€re going to be considering expanding those urban areas. And I would highly encourage the church to explore alternatives for that and to simplify the contested case hearing in doing their due diligence, because so many of us are stretched time-wise, financially. Personally I really cannot afford to continue to come and participate in contested case hearings, so I appreciate, you know, any expediting on that. And, also, I would like to state I do want to see us preserve the agricultural use. If you do look at the size of those ohia trees, they€re huge, they€re numbered for logging. I am very much opposed to doing that in our community. And, also, be aware that we are trying to set a precedent so that we don€t have to deal with every single one of these on a case-by-case hearing. We don€t have the infrastructure. Our community isstrugglingandwearestretchedjusttoprovidetheroadsthatwehave.Andsomethinglikethis is simply aggravating the situation. And for a spiritual community to not recognize that they€re creating so much disunity by doing that, I€m a little surprised at that because -. You know, a Samoan church, and I don€t want to sound racist, but they€re excluding people that aren€t Samoan simply by the title. So I want to see consistency in the agriculture. And I want our community to be able to network and work together and find ways that we can all get to know our neighbors. And I do want to thank this Commission for an opportunity for some of the neighbors to get to know each other and to meet you face to face. Aloha. ALAMEDA:Thank you, thank you. Any questions for Ms. Carden? Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes. Oh, it€s not exactly a question. You did mention a concern about that you€re tired of having to come in every time somebody else wants to do something. And so I did want to urge you, you heard us mention before when we were talking about the Waiakea House Lots that Puna and Kona are right now going through community development plans; and Puna is going through a community development plan. You have an opportunity now, and your community association does, to put some input into it. And I strongly suggest that you contact the, I believe, County Department of Research Development, is the County Department that€s taking the lead on doing this; and there are opportunities, they€re looking for people to host meetings, facilitate meetings, and even your community center or your association. Please take that opportunity because now is the time. CARDEN:Yes, thank you. Our Board is looking very closely at that and we have a committee to work on that; and thank you for your efforts and reminders as well. ALAMEDA:Well, thank you. Seeing no further questions for Ms. Carden, you all may be seated. Also, just to let the folks in the public know who€s waiting for the General Plan 22EXHIBIT B Interim Amendment discussion, we will be most likely be looking at that after lunch. We€ll probably be looking at about 1 o€clock; so if you€re waiting for that, just for your information. Okay, let me continue. We€re doing pretty good on time here. Helga Costello? And, again, for the public, youknow, this testimony process, you cannot provide testimony from the audience, okay. So I know I see your hand up, Mr. Tui. So if you€d like to share something you€d have to sign up formally for testimony so I can acknowledge you so you can come forward. How about James Costello? Come forward. And Mya Paw€U? PAW€U:I€d like to give testimony to another day since I€ve already submitted written testimony today. I will submit further testimony at a later date. ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you. So, I went through all the names. If there€s no further testimony for today, Mr. Tui, are you requesting to provide testimony for today? FUIAVA:Please. ALAMEDA:Okay. PUBLIC:If we wanted to give testimony at a later date, do we have to sign up today? ALAMEDA:No. So, Mr. Tui, please come forward again. Okay, hold on real quick. TORIGOE:This is always a question that we have that when you have an applicant or a party to a contested case your status is a little different, you know, from that of the general public. So I think we€d prefer if the applicant and the parties would basically present their cases and their evidence in the contested case proceeding. If you feel that there€s something that as a member of the public that you have that would be different to say from what you would say as the applicant, you know, then we do have an obligation to allow members of the public to speak. But, you know, most likely what you want to say is going duplicate what you will say in the contested case, I would expect. So, I don€t know, Mr. Chairman, maybe we can just see if it would be appropriate to allow him to testify as a -. ALAMEDA:Yeah, sorry, Tui, this is a little bit different cause you€re actually the applicant as well. So this is more for the general public to come up and just kind of share their perspective or ideas so that we can have it recorded. So maybe you€d want to save your comments for the upcoming hearing. TUI:Okay, no problem. ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you. That leaves us with two final testifiers. Could you please raise your right hands for today, anyway. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. 23EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Thank you. Ma€am, could you please state your name and address for the record. H. COSTELLO:Yeah, Helga Costello, HC1, Box 5677, Keaau 96749. ALAMEDA:Thanks, Helga. You can proceed with your testimony. H. COSTELLO:Yeah, I have, my concern also is the very increased traffic. Although th some of the roads leading up Laniuma Street, for instance, is paved to 39 Street now, it€s by no means a paved road like we know County roads and so on. It€swhat I would call an unimproved road. And my concern is the very increased traffic and in case of an accident involving any of these cars we as the Orchidland Estates owners will be held liable or might be held liable. And as a social security recipient, I don€t think there is very much in my budget that I could afford to be paying for somebody who is involved in an accident and sues the community association. ALAMEDA:Okay. Any questions for Ms. Costello? Seeing none, could you please state your name and address for the record. thth J. COSTELLO:My name is Jim Costello. My physical address is 16-1570 40 Avenue in Orchidland Estates. I€ve lived in Orchidland Estates for some 30 years; and if you want to know something about the neighborhood you could ask someone who has been there for a long time; and quite often they cantell you more than an outsider coming in that is just looking to develop a property or whatever. My first impression when I heardthat there was a church coming up to 38th Avenue was that it was a boondoggle of an idea. I strongly urge the applicant to work with the Orchidland Community Association that is trying to set precedence for the area. Many of us bought out there because it is agriculturally zoned land, and many of us are not looking forward to any changes in relation to that. I know that down on Kaloli Street and Paradise Park, many churches have come in. Their infrastructure it is quite different than ours in Orchidland.IstronglysuggestthatanyofthePlanningCommissionpeopletakeadriveupinto Orchidand and come back; and I think you€ll agree it€s a boondoggle of an idea to put a church up in that area. One of the things the Orchidland Community Association has asked in their last newsletter was that property owners that are bulldozing lots keep in consideration runoff and the rain drainage and strongly consider not bulldozing a whole 3-acre lot. The runoff and rain can affect the adjacent roads and what not. Although many lots have been bulldozed in Orchidland for agricultural purposes, I don€t think there is a situation out there where we have a bulldozed lot that also has a parking area that€s paved. The runoff from the park areas could possibly cause problems on adjacent lots or adjacent roads; and I€d strongly asked if the applicants were to proceed with this that they be asked to have a study related to that runoff. With so much of the weather changes in the island, seeing the problems on Oahu and stuff, I think it would be smart to have the foresight here not to have those problems down the road. And, just briefly, Id ask the applicant to reconsider their location and to work closer down to the area by the highway. That would be more appropriate and their kokua would save a lot of problems that the neighbors are having to go through with this application and all this stress revolved around that application. And I€m sure they€d be much more warmly welcomed by the Orchidland Community Association and by the neighbors if they would reconsider their location and perhaps get another lot. Thank you. 24EXHIBIT B ALAMEDA:Thank you. Any questions for James, Fellow Commissioners? Seeing none, you may be seated. Thank you very much. Fellow Commissioners, there€s no more testimony on this matter. Protocol wise, what€s next on the protocol? How do we end this? TORIGOE:Well, at this point, again, you€ve referred it out to a hearings officer, so unless there€s some other pressing issue that one of the Commissioners sees, that should be the end of today€s proceedings. ALAMEDA:Are we missing anything, Fellow Commissioners? Commissioner Galdones, former chair? GALDONES:None. ALAMEDA:Okay.Well,thiswillbeoutsourcedtoahearingsofficer.Andthe hearings officer will make a recommendation to us; and so it will be brought before our body again. And until that time, good luck and best wishes. Thank you very much. The discussion ended at 11:50 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary 25EXHIBIT B