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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-04-21 TSeascape-development PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT APRIL 21, 2006 SEASCAPE DEVELOPMENT, LLC A regularly advertised hearing on the application of (ORDINANCE NO. 04-106) was called to order at 9:25 a.m. at the Waikoloa Beach Marriott Hotel, 69-275 Waikoloa Beach Drive, Waikoloa, Hawaii with Chairman C. Kimo Alameda presiding. PRESENT:C. Kimo AlamedaABSENT & EXCUSED: William R. GrahamJeffrey McCall Rodney H. Watanabe Andrew Iwashita Fred Galdones Christopher Yuen, Planning Director Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Norman Hayashi, Planning Program Manager Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 10 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: SEASCAPE DEVELOPMENT,LLC (ORDINANCE NO. 04-106) Amendment to Condition H (construction of Kakahiaka Street extension) as required in Ordinance No. 04-106, which rezoned 10.001 acres of land from an Agricultural 5-acre (A-5a) to a Multiple Family Residential ƒ 4,000 square feet (RM-4) district. The property is located on the south side of Kona Palisade Subdivision, approximately 1,200 feet south of the Kaiminani Drive st ƒKakahiakaStreetintersection,Ooma1, North Kona, Hawaii TMK: 7-3-10: portion of 3. ALAMEDA:First on the agenda is SeascapeDevelopment. This is an amendment to Condition H, construction of Kakahiaka Street extension as required in the Ordinance No. 04- 106, which rezoned 10.001 acres of land from an Agricultural 5-acre to a Multi-Family Residential 4,000 square feet district. Mr. Darrow? DARROW:Thank you Mr. Chairman. Good morning members of the Planning Commission. If I can direct your attention to our location map. The area of this application, this request is in North Kona, more specifically we€re looking at the area here the airport identified here in gray. We also have the Kohanaiki project in this area. The red line that€s running in a north-south direction is Queen Kaahumanu Highway. We€re looking more specifically in this area, which is the Kona Palisades Subdivision and the area of the application is identified in a blue dot. The applicant Seascape Development LLC is requesting an amendment to Condition H of Ordinance 04-106, which previously amended the property from Agricultural 5-acres to Multiple Family 4,000 square feet. Condition H required the applicant to construct the extension EXHIBIT A 1 of Kakahiaka Street from the Lokahi Subdivision through the property to the southside of the property. If we can refer to their submitted site plan. Thiswould be the Lokahi Makai and the Lokahi Mauka Subdivision. Kona Palisades would be identified in this area and we have Kaiminani Drive travelling from the east-west direction. From Kakahiaka Street they would travel through the Lokahi Subdivisions and then through their property to the southsideof their property. The applicant€sare required to improve the extension to be a 50-foot wide street with curbs, gutters and sidewalks along one side. They€re requesting in this amendment request to be able to construct to the driveway access of their project and to defer the remainder of the construction until such time that there€s either development on the south property, which is owned by the State or if there happens to be a connection that comes across, a road connection, which would be at the discretion of the Director. If I could refer to the rewording of the submitted condition. We€re actually looking at the condition, the new Condition G. What we€ve done in the amended ordinances, we€ve deleted Condition E because Condition E required that final subdivision approval be secured within 5 years and the applicant has already received final subdivisionapprovalandthisisthelayoutofthatprevioussubdivision.Thishasbecomea separate TMK at this point and the road itself is a separate roadway lot. So we are withdrawing or dropping that condition and re-alphabetizing conditions after that. So the new condition that we€re looking at to amend is Condition G. And if I could read that it€ll state that, The applicant shall construct the extension of Kakahiaka Street through the subject property,‚ and this is the new added portion, to the driveway entrance of any development of the area covered by this rezoning ordinance as a 50-foot wide street to dedicable standards with concrete curb, gutter and sidewalk improvements along one side of the road. The applicant shall construct the required improvements prior to the issuance of a Certificate of Occupancy and dedicate them to the County upon request‚. Also added is, The remainder of Road Lot 5 to the southern boundary of the property shall be set aside as a future road reserve, along with any necessary construction easements and improved to dedicable standards by the applicant, successors or assigns, when the Planning Director determines that this road will serve a useful function. When required by the Director the road shall be constructed in the manner specified by the Department of Public Works and shall be on an alignment meeting with the approval of the Planning Director in consultation with the Department of Public Works.‚ Also added is, The obligation to build the road shall be secured by a covenant running with the land recorded against at least one of the parcels created by Subdivision No. 02-000051, or the applicant may build the road or bond its construction‚. The Planning Department has received 2 letters, one from Barbara Scott and one from Richard Fucik, those hopefully have been passed out to the Commissioners. The Planning Director has recommended that this request be forwarded to the Hawaii County Council with a favorable recommendation by the Planning Commission. Are there any questions? ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners any questions for Staff? Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Darrow, could you explain to us exactly how much longer I mean that the length of road, I€m not certain how long that length is. DARROW:If we refer to this area, this is the proposed layout of the project that Seascape Development is planning on developing. The property is identified in this area. I€ve outlined the roadway lot that runs along the eastside of the parcel and it will be improved EXHIBIT A 2 approximately halfway of the parcel. And they€re asking to defer improvement along approximately 3 to 400 feet of the, from the driveway entrance to the southside of the property. So, it€s approximately 3 to 400 feet in length. WATANABE:Follow up. ALAMEDA:Follow up? WATANABE:And to the south of that there- DARROW:At this point-. WATANABE:-there€s State land but-. DARROW:Correct. WATANABE:-butnodevelopmentsoitwouldleadtonowhere? DARROW:Yes.Atthispointit€sundevelopedandit€sunclearwhattheintentionsof the State are with that particular piece of property. WATANABE:Okay thank you. ALAMEDA:Other Commissioners? Questions for Mr. Darrow? Mr. Graham? GRAHAM:Jeff since we haven€t been there or seen it this section where they want to postpone improvement is it physically on the ground any different than the section that they will be improving up to their driveway entrance? Are there any different obstacles or different conditions to building a road there compared to the rest of the road? DARROW:In regards from-, are you speaking in regards to the property to the-? GRAHAM:No I€m just speaking about it in regards to the road is it-? I mean since we€re only looking at it on paper it looks like they just gotta keep doing what they were doing as they get there but maybe there€s other things on the ground that we don€t know about. So I was just asking are there any other issues with that section of the road? DARROW:It, it- yeah it doesn€t appear that the issue is any sort of obstacle. It appears that the applicant is requesting this because-. And it€s not even a, it appears not to be a cost factor but more a liability issue in regards to maintenance and security. Apparently these types of dead end roads turn up to be security problems with people parking. But if the applicant, I€m not familiar with the actual physical layout. It€s my understanding at this point they€re in grading, so they€re grading this whole particular area. And they€re in for building permits but I don€t believe that there€s any sort of physical limitation on the ground that€s preventing them from doing this. EXHIBIT A 3 GRAHAM:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Commissioners other questions for Mr. Darrow while he€s up there? Seeing none, will the applicant or his representative please come forward? Could I swear the both of you in at this time? Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? APPLICANTS:I do. ALAMEDA:Thank you. Could you please state your name and address for the record and you can, I can go forward from there. DICKLER:My name is Alan Dickler. Address is 75-5742 Kuakini Highway. FUKE:GoodmorningCommissioners,mynameisSidneyFuke.I€maPlanning Consultant. My address is 100 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii. ALAMEDA:Okay. All right Mr. Fuke did you get a chance, you and the applicant get a chance to see the Recommendations made by the Department? FUKE: Sure, we reviewed it together with Mr. Dickler and he found the conditions, the recommended conditions to be acceptable. I€d like to just kind of share with the Commissioners partially like some of the background behind the project and in addition to that the response to some of the questions that were raised earlier. ALAMEDA:Sure. FUKE:The project was approved, was given entitlement zoning and Land Use Commission€s approval in the year 2004 and it was designed to be and still continues to be a 100% affordable housing project. One hundred percent in the sense that 140, and it would be directed to a 140% or less of median income and they€re on target to meet that goal and of which 75% would have to be owner occupied. These are all stipulated in the, the ordinance approving the subject project. As the Staff had indicated the project is well on its way. The grading has been done the grading permit has been issued. The building permit has been processed and hopefully within the next couple of weeks the permit should be issued in which case then the project would get started and hopefully be completed in an 18-month timeframe you know from the time it starts and that was the original goal. The reason for the applicants making this request is not you know solely driven by cost. I mean cost certainly is a factor but it€s more driven by other factors like what your Staff had pointed out. Like you know when you have like a dead- end road which eventually is going to be converted in its entirety to the County then it becomes like a haven for illicit activities. You know whether its for drug trafficking or people just park their junk cars and all that stuff and it provides a certain amount of security concerns for the residence of that area. And so what we€re suggesting is that not necessarily to eliminate this requirement because I think that having this requirement is very appropriate because it fulfills the notion of connectivity and just helps out the overall traffic situation. It€s more a question of like when should it be constructed. And so with the way that your Director has structured a condition EXHIBIT A 4 it will be done you know should there ever become a need to having it completed. I€d like to also note that there are, as the Staff had pointed out, there are 3 other parcels that were part of this subdivision and which at some point in time are going to go in for entitlement. And so if at some point in time this Commission or the Director or the Council decide when they consider that particular lot for development then this issue of the roadway will again be revisited. But notwithstanding that if nothing happens to the 3 remaining parcels there is this obligation on the part of the developer to complete the road when the County deems it appropriate. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners you€ve heard Mr. Fuke€s comments and explanations regarding the application. Any questions for him? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Good morning Sidney. The obvious question that springs forth was wasn€t too long ago that this came before the Commission and to the Council so is anything changed or you know why did it-, why is it presented the way it was before and now you want it differentthat€sall? FUKE:Sure.Ithinkthatyouknowlikewhentherequestfirstcameitwas partially the recommendation for having the roadway completed you know I think was a recommendation based on the Planning Department€s position because they€re doing the studies to figure out like connectivity and there€s always this interest of connectivity. The applicant obviously you know can accept that. However like, you know generally what happens is that after you go through the development phases then you look at each condition and then you begin to realize like oh maybe this condition was not really like how we had intended it to be. And that€s the reason why you know I think as they were going through the development phase and they realized like where the driveway was going to be and the kind of potential problems it was going to be creating you know for the residents of that area, the future residents of that area, then they thought it might be better to not construct it. You know you had asked earlier Commissioner Graham about the roadway condition in that area, it€s pretty uniform and as a matter of fact in conferring with Mr. Dickler this morning they have construction plans prepared for the entire stretch. So it€s not so much a question of they want to wiggle out of this condition it€s more like is it appropriate now given the situation that you have these people that are going to be living in that area you€re going to have potential for this stretch 3 to 400 feet that can, it€s not going to be utilized and create potential safety and maintenance and liability concerns for not only the developer but also for the County. ALAMEDA:Follow up Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:In the papers that we have the Police Department response to the request is basically to oppose it. And the recommendation from the Police Department is that the road be built and that an additional requirement be imposed to establish barricades of some sort to prevent vehicles from going beyond the Seascape project until the time, such time that the EXHIBIT A 5 connectivity is established and then the road can be opened. That seems reasonable to me. Is that something that the developer can accomplish? FUKE:True, you could establish like interim barriers. I think there are 2 things, one is that whether there€s still going to be a need for that road. You know at least like in conjunction with this project or at least until such time that there is a need for it beyond this you know this property. So there€s a question of like the need factor. I think the other thing to bear in mind is that this road is you know is intended to be dedicated to the County so the County is going to have to assume the maintenance and the liability responsibility. True [you could] you could put up like an interim barrier but we all know how, even no matter how, you know if you create this kind of barrier it still would be accessibleby foot, by foot traffic. It still would be a natural haven for like a receptacle, a public receptacle area and once you have you know people dumping rubbish in that area then it kind of like snow balls and then whose responsibility does it fall upon? It doesn€t necessarily only fall upon the developer and the homeowners in there but the County€s going to also have to maintain it. So, you know again I think the critical thing that we€re trying to emphasize is that true there is some cost measure implication but it€s not, the request is not driven entirely by cost. It€s driven by like more the practicality of having it extended at this point in time. ALAMEDA:Follow up Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Thank you. My question was whether or not the developer will be willing to put up the barricade? You know whatever form I guess Department of Public Works would determine would be appropriate in order to address this access and these kind of concerns. I, you knowfranklyasfarasconnectivityandallofthosekindofconcernsthat€snevergoingtogo away. That€s, I mean, our part of, my view of what this Commission is about and what the Planning is supposed to be is that we need to impose these kinds of conditions so that we will have connectivity and the road will be used. It€s not you know it€s a matter of our basically imposing or implementing the public policy to have roads that work right and not what we have today. So, you know I, to me that€s not the issue. The issue is this concern that has been brought up by this application and the Police Department€s recommendation seems reasonable to me. Obviously upon dedication you€re right the County will, you know if there€s trash dumped in the area or anything like that, that would have to happen. Pedestrian traffic to me is only going to be from the people who are there. This place is so isolated there€s nobody going to be walking off Queen K coming up to this place to try and do a drug deal you know everything would have to be in vehicles. So, the barricade seems like a very plausible solution and I€d like to know if the developer would be willing to work with Department of Public Works to do that? FUKE:Well, if ultimately that becomes the condition then that€s something that they€ll have to do. You know you raise a very good point in the sense that connectivity is, is like at this point in time a very sacred principal you know in, for this area and even for the whole island. But the question is like first of all, two things, one is like whether it€s appropriate at this point in time and secondly whether the developer is trying to escape that requirement. And the answer to the second question is that no he€s not trying to escape that requirement because at some point in time if there€s a need for that connection the developer has that obligation to make that connection. And when you do the connection, that connection would have to be constructed EXHIBIT A 6 pursuant to whatever the standards that may be applicable at that point in time by the Department of Public Works. And you know that connection could be 20 years from now or maybe 5 years from now and whatever the prevailing standard is the construction plans would have to be prepared and approved in pursuant to approved Public Work€s standard. So I think the critical thing is to understand that this is not an effort to, on the part of the developer to eliminate or to escape this requirement. It€s just to, you know just to see like what is reasonable given the situation that they have right now. ALAMEDA:Follow up Mr. Iwashita? IWASHITA:No. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director you had a comment? YUEN:IjustwantedtosaythattheDepartmentsupportsthispartiallybecausewe do have a way of implementing the construction in the future. It would be pretty typical of us in a subdivision to make them build out to the property line rather to make them build the stub out to the property line. These same issues come up. And typically if there is a concern about it being a problem area because of a cul-de-sac we would-, you could have this temporary barrier. But in a typical subdivision the subdivider will be gone and there€s no real way of assuring that the road will be built out to the end. In this case we do have a property owner who owns several lots and potentially develop the lots in the immediate area. The other factor here is that this is a 100% affordable project and we are trying to work with people in that, who are doing affordable housing to try to avoid loading unnecessary cost on the project. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners? Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:I€m good. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita, Commissioner Graham? Your thoughts? Any questions for Mr. Fuke or the applicant? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:I guess given the Director€s comments I have a question of the developer and that is if this is denied are you not going to do the project? DICKLER:Thank you Commissioners. No if this is denied we are moving forward with the project. I was misquoted in the paper when they said that we weren€t going to go forward. But I would like to thank Mr. Yuen. This is part of the issue here is that you asked, one of the Commissioners asked earlier what€s changed, I think it was Mr. Graham asked what€s changed since the original application. The original application called for 40% affordability and we€re doing 100% affordability. The original application included a, not a County standard roadway to this property and we went for the process of the subdivision it was required to put the full right-of-way in. So we€re doing that. It€s 2000 feet we€re already putting of roadway on an affordable project it translates; it does come down to cost as a factor. And as Mr. Yuen said we€re trying to maintain our cost, we have cost increases every single day, we cannot raise the price that we€re charging for these and it goes into the product. We are the first developer in EXHIBIT A 7 over 10 years to have built, actually built affordable housing within our subdivision at Lokahi and we are the first developer to build a 100% affordable project in the North Kona area in I think also over 10 or 15 years. So we have made the commitment to build affordable housing. We will build this project Mr. Iwashita either way but we are looking to control our costs. ALAMEDA:Any further questions Commissioners for our applicant? Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:It€s my understanding that you own several parcels, what about 3 of them that are makai, mauka excuse me of this particular project? Is that correct? DICKLER:Two mauka and one north of it (inaudible). WATANABE:Okay thank you. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners any questions for our applicant or Mr. Fuke or our staff?ForthepublicforthoseofyouwhomayhavewalkedinlateIseenotestifiersheretoday but never too late so if there€s any testifiers who€d like to testify on this particular agenda item please do so by approaching our staff. If none, that brings it back to fellow Commissioners. What€s your pleasure on this particular agenda item? Discussion? Go ahead Commissioner Graham and then Commissioner Iwashita. GRAHAM:I just have to say you know I accept the sincerity of the applicant. You know that they are in fact responding to the concern-. They are responding to the situation as they portray it and that and their intentions and all. And I guess the biggest pill for me to swallow though would be what will in fact happen in the future. Like Mr. Fuke said it could be 5 years from now or 20 years from now. If I really felt that past history and my understanding of how things work was such that if some time in the future it really became appropriate to build this road for use that I was sure that within 90 days somebody would have that road built and the way it would be and there€s no real loss to the public you know I would feel a lot better about supporting what you€re asking here because it does have reasonableness. But given that we don€t know who€s going to be owning the property. We don€t know whose going to be the Planning Director. We don€t know whether there could be litigation about this map. It just feels like there a huge risk to this whole thing running into some kind of a hassle and not really coming about at the appropriate time. I€m sure willing to hear anything the Planning Director may have to say in response to that. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director do you want to respond or? Okay. YUEN:I guess the gist of your comments are some skepticism about the diligence of the Planning Department in the future. The act that would trigger this road being necessary would be the State wanting to develop the property immediately adjacent. So, you would have a public agency that would be-, there would be some public interest and some public agency urging the County to make this road get built by the private side if and when the State wanted to move forward. So it€s not strictly a question of the County being able to sit in a room with a couple of private developers and let them off the hook with nobody noticing. And finally, the EXHIBIT A 8 very worse case scenario is that the State or some other government agency would have to build this 3 or 400 feet of road if and when the State wanted to develop the adjacent property. That€s if everybody fell asleep at the wheel and let this go. So given the-. And I appreciate Mr. Dickler€s candid answer and not trying to hold this as a negotiating point in the building of this project. But the fact of the matter is that any affordable project in West Hawaii is going to be done on small margins at best. Small profit margins at best. And we are trying to encourage people to do affordable housing. So if we see a way to help them cut their cost and a reasonable way where we can still protect the public interest we€re certainly willing to take the chance that the Planning Department is not sufficiently vigilant in 10 to 15 years time. In the end the community gets the government that it deserves. Community is, it€s a little up to the community to, people to watch this kind of thing. There are always instances where something was missed. We can point, and those become sometimes-public embarrassments. We can point and certainly you can point to situations in the past where a developer was supposed to do something and somebody missed it. We can also point to 10 times or 20 times where the developer was supposedtodosomethingandthePlanningDepartmentwasontheballandmadethemdoit. So, this will be a condition of the zoning ordinance. It will be a covenant in the deed. If and when there€s a public project it€s hard for me to see that nobody would notice that there was this condition floating out there that the property, that the adjacent private property owner has to build the road has to build this 3 or 400 feet connector road. So, I do feel quite comfortable that it would be enforced in the future. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Graham follow up? No? We€ll go to Commissioner Iwashita and then Commissioner Watanabe. Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:So, just so I get a clear understanding here. The way this language is written it€s the intent that whichever property-. There€s going to be some other piece of property that is going to be encumbered by a covenant running with the land which requires the building of this road at some time in the future. Who€s going to determine whether or not that property is presently of sufficient value in a-? I guess I€m not clear on the, if the developer, if whoever the owner is at the time does not comply then what is going to be the process by which the County can enforce this obligation? In other words you know I don€t see a real clear legal path if it€s just a covenant as far as selling, forcing the sale of the property or you know, in order to get the money to get it done. And what conditions would have to be met by the County before such a sale could occur? It€s not real clear to me how that€s going to be set up and whether it€s going to be you know any, as Commissioner Graham indicated a relatively efficient process so that the road could be built you know in, within a reasonable time to facilitate whatever future development we€re talking about. ALAMEDA:Director can you respond to that? YUEN:The other parcels that are involved are 15-acre parcels. The value of those properties I have no doubt exceeds the cost of building this 3 or 400 feet of road. As a covenant, if the covenant is entered and then some day later the landowner refuses then the County would have to bring suit against the landowner to enforce the covenant. The property itself would be the security. Then the County would have won the suit and say won monetary damages equivalent to the cost of building a road. The property itself would be the security and EXHIBIT A 9 judgement could be entered against the property and it could be foreclosed as any other asset of the owner at the time. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe follow-up? I mean Commissioner Iwashita follow-up? IWASHITA:Yes I guess I would like something more specific along the lines of what the Director stated because you know if it€s just these words that we€re looking at then various legal arguments can be made about-, you know on behalf of the owner at the time to forestall a sale and those kind of things and you know basically efforts to buy time‚ to put it off. But if there€s a clear security interest in order to enforce this and clear language that foreclosure which is not a word used in any of this language is the remedy that the County can use to get a court order to sell the property to get the money, to build the project. And the other problems going to be at the time what is the amount you€re going to foreclose on you know? Because that€s a matterofestimateunlessthecosthasactuallybeenincurred.Andifthecosthasactuallybeen incurred that means that some probable public entity the County or the State would have actually had to spend the money to prove to the court that you know it€s a million dollars or twenty million dollars or whatever it is to have built this road and that€s what we get to collect against this property. Other than that it€s speculative. So you know how do you-, it€s just the way it€s written now it€s you know (inaudible) legal arguments that can be, can take years and years and years to litigate and the road is not going to be built or if it is it€s going to be at government cost. YUEN:When we write a condition like this and put it in the ordinance there€s going to be a follow-up legal document that will be prepared by or reviewed by Corporation Counsel to fulfill the intent of this and I wouldn€t try to sit here in a Planning Commission meeting and work all that out. That€s something, they€ll have to come up with this covenant as a condition and Corp Counsel will review it to make sure that it does what we need to do which is provide security against default on this road obligation. And it€s not something that we would try to put the text of in the rezoning ordinance. And I can cite you, there are many conditions if you look at any rezoning ordinance there are many conditions that are stated in a general way and will require some kind, they€ll require, it€s very common, they€ll require a follow-up document that is reviewed by Corporation Counsel. It€s not practical to try to have to draft out the language of the covenant before hand or at Planning Commission meeting. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe? Floor? Now go ahead. WATANABE:My question would be for the Director. I€d like to point out at the site map, looks like that parcel to the south, which we say is the State property. That€s a rather significant parcel yeah with no roadways coming from Queen K up to that parcel at the current time. Which would mean that access, you know if the State wanted to develop that property access to that property, the cheapest way to get to that property would be to have that additional 3 to 400 feet that we€re talking about right now completed. So I think to some degree that sort of insures that that portion of the road would be completed at some point if it€s going to connect to anything. Cause right now even if we completed it, it would connect to nothing. Isn€t that the gist of what we€re talking about? EXHIBIT A 10 ALAMEDA:Mr. Director? YUEN:Well that€s right. The State property does go all the way to Queen Kaahumanu. That€s a large lot that the State owns. How the State would want to handle that really depends on how they develop the property. I know that there are no current plans by the State to do a development there. Having Seascape build in fact extends Kakahiaka Street almost to the boundary of the State property and at least makes the potential for building-, this makes a potential for having access to a State property that€s immediately adjacent. Actually without Kakahiaka Street being built the State propertyhas no access for a long way from either side. And if the State wanted to develop up from Queen Kaahumanu then naturally they would have to build their own road going up from Kaahumanu but it€s a long way from the Queen Kaahumanu Highway to this elevation. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe follow up? WATANABE:I€m trying to be real careful about this cause I know the rules say that we shouldn€ttestifyasCommissionersbutyouknowIlivein-,sincewe€reindiscussionIhopethis is appropriate. ALAMEDA:This is okay. Go ahead. WATANABE:Okay. I live in Kona Vistas and as you know Lako Street was stubbed out in Kona Vistas and we did have significant problems with trash being dumped there, drug sales going on, you know people having sex there, everything, all kinds of things were going on. And, since the development started to occur where Lako Street is being extended much of that has kind of cleared up except that it moved towards our Rec. Center. And the real issue with this is you know the response time from the police is sufficiently long that they never ever catch anyone. Which means that you know the neighborhood gets involved in this, in trying to police their own area and it€s sort of a risk. So in my mind when you€re looking at 3 to 400 feet that leads to nowhere and saying that we€ll complete that road and then put a barrier so that they can€t go in, use that additional 3 to 400 feet kind of doesn€t make sense. I at the same time though share the other Commissioners concerns that there be sufficient language that we€re assured that the developer is not let off the hook. And to a great extent I think by what the Director indicated as far as the parcels in question that would be encumbered being you know like 15 acres or so it would seem that that€s significant collateral for 3 or 400 feet of road. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Galdones? GALDONES:Thank you Mr. Chair. The concerns that I have pretty much is in line with what Commissioner Watanabe had spoken about. Mr. Fuke had mentioned the reasons why they would like to waiver the requirement to develop that portion of the road is a real problem. I was looking at the police comments also on the report and I was hoping to see something that says it€s along the lines of safety and something that€s criminal that would be occurring and their recommendation would be along those lines. But reading their report it just states that it€s the staff opinion that the practice of deferring connector road construction does not work and sets a negative precedence. And I think what they are trying to say here is the same problem that the EXHIBIT A 11 community has always been expressing to the Planning Commission which is the infrastructure, the road infrastructure is not keeping up with the development that is going on in this area. However, in this situation here the reason that they are asking for a waiver of developing that was more for a safety reason and a maintenance reason and all these illegal activities which is more realistic and practical as you compare it to the police report. But also on the other hand, I also express the same concerns like Commissioner Watanabe and I guess the rest of the Commissioners also expressing the same is that to be assured that in the future that the applicant or the successors or assigns will be obligated to developing that road. Now in the condition, the new Condition G it speaks of it€s going to be dedicated to the County and I€m of the assumption that although, and if I€m wrong I€d like to be corrected. I€m of the assumption although it€s going to be dedicated to the County that the applicant, the successor or the assign will still be held liable or obligated to build the road if required by the Planning Director. The other thing I€d like to address is the last sentence in the new Condition G. I€m not quite certain what that is trying to say. It speaks of the obligation to build a road shall be secured by a covenant running withthelandrecordedagainstatleastoneoftheparcelscreatedbySubdivisionnumberandit gives a number or the applicant may build the road or bond its construction. I€m not quite certain what it€s trying to tell us. If this is going to help secure or obligate the applicant, the successor or the assigns that the road shall be built then I€m all for it but I€m not quite so sure if that is what that sentence is trying to say and I don€t know if somebody will be able to help me with this. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director? YUEN:I can take that. Yes that is what the condition is trying to say. The Subdivision 02-00051 creates 4 lots of roughly 15 acres. So the lot, if this went through then there would be a follow-up document that would be recorded against one of those lots and requiring the construction of this road upon request of the Planning Director. And then the last part gives the applicant the option, you can devoid that, you can just go ahead and build the road or you can bond its construction. And again the bond is something that the full language isn€t here, there would be something that would be reviewed by Corporation Counsel for its legal sufficiency. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Just for clarification Mr. Director? The parcels or parcel that you are referring to would be most likely parcels that are mauka of this subdivision that are like 15-acres and also owned by the applicant? YUEN:There€s-, I don€t know if we have a good map showing it but there€s I think there€s 2-? Well I think there€s one more mauka of this and then there€s 2 on either side of Kakahiaka between this property and the current Lokahi makai development. WATANABE:Yeah I guess the real concern was you know when I first read this was almost like-, cause I did, I wasn€t privy to the fact that they owned other parcels adjoining this. Was that oh we would put a covenant that was secured by say an affordable lot and since that€s not the case I feel pretty comfortable. EXHIBIT A 12 YUEN:Right it€s not secured by in say the subdivision of Seascape in the individual lots. In fact Seascape itself will be developed as a condominium. It could be secured against Seascape as a whole in which case it€s an obligation of the condominium. I don€t know that that€s what would happen because that complicates Seascape but it would not be-. If they did Seascape as an individual, as individual lots for example we, that would require another subdivision so it wouldn€t comply with the terms of this ordinance to take one of the lots, one small lot within Seascape and burden that lot. It would have to be one of these 15-acre lots that are created by this subdivision referenced here. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe follow-up? WATANABE:Just as a follow-up I would prefer that the one TMK for Seascape not be encumbered because we€re saying that that€s supposed to be affordable housing and then you€re placingtheburdenonyouknowtheowner€sofaffordablehousingtocomplete3or400feetof road. I would prefer that it be on a separate parcel also owned by the applicant that you know of sufficient value that we wouldn€t have to be concerned about whether it be completed or not. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director? YUEN:I think we should ask the applicant for comment on that. The Department doesn€t have any objection but it would be a different lot other than Seascape. ALAMEDA:Sure this would be a good time for the applicant to not just comment on that but comment on other comments that we€ve shared. Now is your time. DICKLER:Thank you Mr. Chairman. Number one in direct response to Mr. Watanabe€s question it was always, it was the intent or we understood the intent was to secure it against one of the other 3 parcels, the 10 or 15 acre parcels not the Seascape Condo. And as Mr. Yuen said that it would be too complicated to do it against that, the present project, the condo project as it stands. Mr. Fuke wants to make comment also. FUKE:I think that this dialogue is very healthy because I think that what€s happened and the more you get into it and looking at the languages that there€s a concern about-. It€s true maybe you know the overall intent is fine but are there enough assurances that the road would be completed because the Planning Director, current Planning Director would probably be very vigilant about it but the question is what happens like 15 or 20 years from now. And also I think Commissioner Iwashita also brought up the point about like what happens, you know what is the process you know by which you encumber a property and you know have the road constructed? What I€d like to suggest is you know taking into account all that€s been said is probably like an added language in that area which will generally read along this line. And, cause I€m assuming that Director Yuen will be here for another 3 to 6 months but it would read something like this. A draft of the covenant providing the assurance and process for completion of this road shall be submitted to the Planning Director for review and approval within 3 months after the effective date of this ordinance or after this amendment prior to its recordation. So in other words like you know the Director is fully aware of like all of the discourse that€s EXHIBIT A 13 happening and I think the Commissioners want to get some assurance that you know whatever gets recorded it€s not like a (inaudible) type of recordation where the owner of maybe lot 1 or lot 2 that€s going to be encumbered with thiscan easily run away from that condition. So you want to put the Department in a position to review it so that you can guarantee that you know the process is such that the road will be completed and then whoever buys the property or retains ownership to the property would know that this is an encumbrance that runs with the land. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe? Director? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:I€m not real clear first on where these other 3, 15-acre parcels are. FUKE:If I can direct you to the Planning Department Exhibit Number 2 in their Background Report. IWASHITA:Number? FUKE:PlanningDepartmentExhibit2.Soareweliterallyonthesamepage? IWASHITA:Thisisa10-acre,10-acre,14.583acresanda12.892-acre? FUKE:Correctyeahandthenthe,wheretheproposeddevelopmentisscheduled to be would be on lot number 2. IWASHITA:The 10.001 acres? FUKE:That is correct and so the developers already obligated you know to construct the extension of Kakahiaka Street all the way through roughly like one half of or maybe two thirds of lot number 2. You know a rough stretch of about approximately 2,000 feet. And so the remaining area that does not get, as proposed, would not be constructed at this point in time would be a stretch of 2 or 300 feet. And so one of the parcels would be encumbered with that condition and that could conceivably be lots number 1, 4 and 3 but more than likely lot number 1 because its adjacent to the area of the roadway. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Yes, thank you. My other-. I have a suggestion I€d like to know if the developer would be, or I€d like the developer€s comments on it. That is, I would suggest adding in order to make it clear and I know I don€t want, we don€t want to put too much specificity in here. But for the purposes of having a very clear process to secure this road being built in the future my suggestion is that we would add the following language in the last sentence of the new proposed paragraph G, after the reference to subdivision number 02-000051 and the comma, including the granting of a security interest in the amount equal to the current cost for the County of Hawaii to build and then the remainder of road lot, a proper reference to this section of the road as determined by the Department of, the Director of the Department of Public Works and said amount to be increased on an annual basis of 3%. And in my mind then that language would make it clear on present dollars what the cost would be for the County to have to build EXHIBIT A 14 this road. Because I think if the developer doesn€t build the road that the reality is the County€s going to have to build it and so it should be at the County€s cost. And it provides a security interest, which is clearly foreclose-able by the County and have a specific amount that a court can assess in the foreclosure sales amount payable to the County. And then there won€t be any issue as far as what is an appropriate amount and so forth. If foreclosure and I think you know it€s appropriate that foreclosure as the prior discussion indicated that foreclosure is the best remedy for the County. And in order to make it an effective remedy then a specific amount needs to be established. So in the process of going through this then what I envision is that the County will have a lien interest a security interest for a very specific dollar amount which it can foreclose on in the future whether its 5 years from now or 20 years from now. That would be an amount adequate to cover the cost for the County to build the road. ALAMEDA:Any response Mr. Fuke? Applicant? DICKLER:IappreciatewhatMr.Iwashitaistryingtodoandwouldhesitantlyagree to it. I think that the language that the Director put in with respect to the applicant may build the road or bond this construction has to be in there because as we go forward on development, I need the flexibility with lenders to remove that covenant as long as other provisions are provided. But as far, you know our intention is to build the road. Our intention is to build out future projects when they€re approved on this parcel so that I don€t have any objection to that. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Thank you Mr. Chair. Just to make it clear I did not intend to delete the words or the applicant may a build the road or bond its construction. That would remain. ALAMEDA:Okay. Other Commissioners before we move into a potential motion, either way? We€re still in discussion. Commissioner Watanabe and then Mr. Director. YUEN:You know if I could just comment on that. I don€t have any objection to it, I don€t think it changes what we have in there already. The only thing that it changes is that you would do a construction cost estimate now and increase it by 3% a year instead of there being an estimate at the point of time where there€s a legal dispute. I don€t think it-. That€s the only difference. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita follow up? IWASHITA:The reason I€m recommending this is that I think its best that the parties agree to a specific-, that both sides agree to a specific number and so in the future there€s no basis to argue about what the number should be. And I think the court in the future in a foreclosure case which is an equitable proceeding in which the court must protect the interest of both parties that legal issues can be raised on what number it should be and so forth. So, and what the intent of the parties was in making this agreement if a specific number is not reached like you know the arguments going to be the County€s going to say well it has to be County cost and the Developers going to say no it€s the Developer cost. And those kind of arguments you know are potentially out there in the future and what I€m trying to do by making this suggested EXHIBIT A 15 language change is to make it clear up front that both parties agree on a number and will basically be you know compelled. If inflation is 6% you know from now on the County takes a loss. If it€s 1% you know the develop-, if it actually comes to foreclosure that€s just how it works out but it€s best if it€s clear up front what the numbers are and what the number is and that way there€s one less thing to argue about in the future. Actually, if its done this way there€s really nothing to argue about in the future. It€s a straight foreclosure process, the court has a specific number and there€s really nothing to it. It€s only a question of whether or not that road was built or not and if it wasn€t then the foreclosure will be had. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:I kind of share the Director€s concerns and you know if you€re coming up with a number now and some adjusted inflation figure what if inflation exceeds that figure? What I would suggest you do is just essentially do what we are, the Director has suggested exceptidentifylot1asthespecificlotthatyouwouldplacetheencumbranceon.Andsothen anytime lot 1 is developed or at the direct-, I believe the Director has discretion. The developer would be required to complete the 3 or 400 feet of road. I think that would be sufficient because it seems lot 1 is approximately 10 acres? And we€re still talking only 3 or 400 feet of road. And it would probably be in the best interest of whoever decides to develop lot 1 to complete that road anyway. So I think that would be sufficient and we wouldn€t, I really don€t envision us arguing about that in the long run. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita response? IWASHITA:I have no problem changing the reference to the adjustment of the amount to be an amount, whatever the appropriate reference to the inflation index is, that€s established by the Federal government. And you know that number is established on an annual basis and we can use that as the increase so that it tracks actual inflation. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director? YUEN:You know the more I think about this I think its better to set the amount when the road has to be built. What will happen if the County has to build the road then it€s the County€s cost. If the judgement is that somebody has to build the road then the private landowner then says well I would rather build it because my cost is going to be less than the County€s then they would build it. What we€re-, by setting a cost now and building in an inflation factor we open ourselves to the possibility that the inflation factor for building a road may be quite different than consumer price index. The cost of building roads at any particular time really varies. For example, it€s quite expensive now because the contractors by and large are very busy. So, it doesn€t, whereas the consumer price index is, rises because it€s a basket of goods that rises at a gradual rate. The actual construction costs-, the costs of the construction sector tend to vary wildly. So, if I€m you know-. I think what we€re, what I€d like to say is what€s happening here is we€re having a debate on levels of detail that are really, should be done at an administrative level and not at the level of the Commission. But if I€m forced to enter into this debate over cost estimate now or cost estimate later I think it€s much better to have it later. If the cost of defaulting-. If you build in the cost now and there€s this consumer price index cost EXHIBIT A 16 adjustment over time and the private landowner at that time, say 20 years in the future, sees that it€s much cheaper to just surrender, just to pay the dollar amount that€s built into this because it is less than the cost of building a road, they€ll do that. ALAMEDA:Mr. Iwashita follow up? IWASHITA:I can go along with the Director€s desire to have the cost established at the time the issue arises as long as there€s a clear agreement as to the process to do that and in my mind that would be that the parties agree that the amount would be the County€s cost as determined by the Director of the Department of Public Works or whatever the person is called at the time. And that it€s-, the sole-, and that person has the sole authority to do that so that there€s really no basis to argue or appeal or take to arbitration or any way to dispute the amount. You know it€s clear that the developer now and the owner in the future would be bound by the Director€s decision as to what that cost is. ALAMEDA:Very good. Other Commissioners? Mr. Director? FUKE:Mr. Chairman? ALAMEDA:Mr. Fuke? FUKE:I think that you know in light of what€s happened, if you go back again to like what I was kind of suggesting that if you submit a draft of the covenant you know to the Planning Director within 3 months of the effective date of this amendment and then that draft would reflect you know would provide, make provisions for the assurances number one and the process by which this roadway would be completed. And that assurance and the process would be as determined by the Planning Director upon consultation with the Department of Public Works. And I think that without getting into you know the very specifics at this stage I think in concept it would pretty much like accomplish what I believe the Commission you know is, wish to accomplish. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director? YUEN:I€m fine with Mr. Fuke€s language. I€m also fine with a language saying that if there€s a dispute over the cost of the constructing the road the cost shall be the lowest, shall be determined as the-. I would ask for the Commission€s indulgence in preparing the exact language to be sent to the Council between the time of the motion and the Council receiving the ordinance but the gist of it would be the lowest qualifying bidder. And that would mean that there would be, that you would have a construction, you would actually have a construction bid. If the parties disputed it and the job-, the parties dispute the cost then the County has to do it then it bids out the job and the landowner is responsible for paying the cost of the lowest qualifying bid. What the, the difficulty I€m having in wording this is I€m not, I don€t have at the tip of my tongue or somewhere in my brain the proper language that describes (inaudible) the lowest qualifying bid. But when you go through a Public Works bid process they, and then they are required to take the lowest bidder, I don€t remember the right language for that but that€s the gist of it. EXHIBIT A 17 ALAMEDA:Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:I agree with the Planning Director€s sense that we€re really micro- managing something here is maybe not appropriate. And I guess after listening to all of this I don€t feel like I can kind of jump ship and say yeah if you€re ready just write I€ll go along with it. I feel like you know Commissioner Iwashita said we do have this letter from the Police Department that maybe you know if this is not granted the applicant could go to the Police Department and say well they do have the condition we need to build this. We will put up the barricades as you indicate and we expect that you€ll give us the cooperation and we feel there€s no public nuisance and problems here and let it go at that. I just don€t see a way out of the basic issue of what will happen years in the future by us writing whole bunch of verbiage now. So I just cannot support it even though I have good feeling for the intentions. ALAMEDA:FellowCommissionersasyoutakenoticethere€sonly5ofusandhearing the comments from Commissioner Graham we can continue this discussion or we could move forward via motion. What€s your pleasure? Corp Counsel any comment? TORIGOE:Thank you. Mr. Chairman I just-. One last try at this. One way of adding something to try and satisfy some of the concerns about security would be to throw (inaudible) at the end of the proposed amendments to Condition G. Something like, the covenants shall include an obligation to allow the County to foreclose upon the property to satisfy cost of building the road under public procure and procedures as may be determined by the Director of Public Works, that sort of thing. ALAMEDA:Commissioners any response to that? Seeing none? WATANABE:Mr. Graham is the one that-? ALAMEDA:Mr. Graham would you care to respond? You don€t need to if you don€t want to. GRAHAM:I€m sure the Council is going to deal with this however they deal with it and I don€t have anything. ALAMEDA:Okay, thank you Commissioner Graham. Fellow Commissioners? Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:I move that a favorable recommendation be submitted to the Council for amendment to Condition H as further amended during these discussions for Change of Zone Ordinance 04-106, REZ 1047. ALAMEDA:Motion made by Commissioner Watanabe. Is there a second? GALDONES:Second. EXHIBIT A 18 ALAMEDA:Seconded by Commissioner Galdones. Any further discussion? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Just clarification. Does Commissioner Watanabe€s motion include the language just suggested by Corp Counsel as an amendment or is it just based on the straight unamended proposed conditions? WATANABE:As amended by Corp Counsel. IWASHITA:Thank you. ALAMEDA:Any further discussion? All right Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:This is just a procedural concern. It appears to me that you know given wherewearetodayandtheopinionsexpressedbytheCommissionersthatatbestwe€rereally not going to have a decision this afternoon. So, I don€t want to try and predict the future but if that appears to be the case then I guess consideration should be made to whether the applicant wants to have the matter continued so that the Commission can hear it at another time when there are more members here. ALAMEDA:I think we€ve had a little discussion on this previous. I don€t know if our Commission all of our Commission members feel comfortable giving the applicant an opportunity. Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:I just was thinking, like I, you know I can€t feel good supporting it but I sure don€t want to hold it up since a decisions going to be made at the Council anyway. And I remember at a prior meeting the Planning Director suggested something about-, and this was in regard to the Subdivision Code that we could sort of send it forward to the Council with just a record of our vote, which you know I didn€t support in that instance but I would certainly support that in this instance if we wanted to do something like that then move it forward. In other words if we can€t give a- because of not having a big quorum here, if we can€t give a clean vote on it I€m certainly willing to pass it up to the Council with the vote that we have if that€s suitable to the, to our Counsel here Mr. Torigoe, if he feels like that€s appropriate? ALAMEDA:Mr. Torigoe any comment? TORIGOE:Thank you Mr. Chairman. Well basically under the zoning code 25-, let€s see where is it? 25-2-44B, it says the changes or alterations of conditions are processed in the same manner as a zone change. And then the zone change, and there€s a 90-day window you know and we€ve been talking about you know when we feel like it€s the obligation of the Commission to wrestle with these matters within that 90-day window to see if something intelligent can be sent up to the County Council rather than just kind of default and say that we can€t make a decision. And I don€t know where we are in the 90-day window now. Maybe Staff can enlighten us on that. But basically if it fails, if you fail to take any action today and we€re still within the 90-day window you know it could still reappear on the agenda. EXHIBIT A 19 ALAMEDA:Staff? Mr. Hayashi? HAYASHI:I€m sorry I don€t have the information as to when we exactly sent it over to the Planning Commission. I would assume that, you have that? Okay the background recommendations was mailed to the Planning Commission on April 6, so that would be the date that the 90-day starts from. ALAMEDA:Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Okay. So we still got, let€s see what is this, today is-, not even a month has elapsed yet so you got at least another couple of months. So this would appear, I mean it would come up on the agenda again normally right? HAYASHI:Yes. TORIGOE:Okay. ALAMEDA:Mr. Director? YUEN:If I could just clarify what my suggestion was on the Subdivision Code, whichisalittledifferentthanwhatwehavehere.OntheSubdivisionCodewehadapackageof amendments to the Code. There were Commissioners who had some reservations about individual items on them. But my suggestion was if the Commission could vote a favorable recommendation but that the text of the letter that went to the Council would indicate reservations about particular items within the matter. It€s difficult for me to say that the Commission-. I would like to see this matter move up to the Council. We have a favorable recommendation from the Planning Department. We€ve taken the position that when the Commission is split that we are trying to get a favorable or unfavorable recommendation from the Commission on the merits. There is this timeframe for the Commission to act in which we can try to do this. So if the Commission actually has a split vote then it has to reappear on the Commission€s agenda. I couldn€t really recommend for this one saying that the Commission, please Commission vote it up to the Council but just express some reservations about not having them build Kakahiaka Street to the end because that€s the essence of the amendment. So and as far as the question about deferring, there really wouldn€t-. In a situation like this you might, the Commission might as well vote. Because, rather than just trying to feel everybody out and then deciding well you€re not going to have the votes because you never know how somebody€s going to vote until they vote. And the result of a 4 to 1 vote would be that this matter is deferred to the next agenda. I don€t-, I€ll make one last pitch and hope that the Commission recognizes the urgency or affordable housing and our desire to help this project move forward. And I think I€ll leave it at that. I couldn€t say that, I just wanted, I broke in here just to explain what I see is the difference between the situation on the subdivision code and the kind of action the Commission is taking today. ALAMEDA:Fellow Commissioners I concur with the Director. I encourage us to move forward with the vote. Is there any objection? Commissioner Iwashita? EXHIBIT A 20 IWASHITA:No objection I have a request though. ALAMEDA:Sure. IWASHITA:I€d like to ask Corp Counsel to reiterate the condition. ALAMEDA:Mr. Torigoe? TORIGOE:Sure, I was just suggesting to add on the following to the new Condition G. The covenant shall include an obligation to allow the County to foreclose upon the encumbered property to satisfy costs of building the road under public procure and procedures as maybe determined by the Department of Public Works. ALAMEDA:Commissioner Iwashita follow up? IWASHITA:I guess if you change may to shall then they may, it€ll be clear that the Director€sdecisionwouldbecontrollingasbetweentheparties. TORIGOE:Sure. ALAMEDA:Sonoted. WATANABE:I€ll accept it as a friendly amendment. ALAMEDA:Thank you Commissioner Watanabe. WATANABE:May to shall. ALAMEDA:Any other follow up? We€re moving towards the vote. There€s a motion made by Commissioner Watanabe, seconded by Commissioner Galdones. Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Could I just invite a comment from Mr. Fuke since he seems like he might have something in mind. ALAMEDA:Sure. Thank you Mr. Fuke? FUKE:Well in light of the urgency in having some decision you know formally passed on to the County Council I€m just wondering whether as a procedure or alternative and maybe this is a question to the Planning Director whether this item could be deferred to your next meeting which would be in Hilo or continued rather you know to your next meeting in Hilo? At which time you know alternative languages could be prepared for the you know review of the Planning Commission. YUEN:Does the agenda-, do we have time to put it on the agenda for the next Hilo meeting? EXHIBIT A 21 HAYASHI:I think we still have time. We need to do an addendum to the agenda that has to be published probably first thing Monday. YUEN:Well we€re anticipating a vote here but if the Commission, I think, I don€t see a problem. I mean we€ve had a hearing on this side of the island without any public testimony so to have it continued for a decision-. Rather than continued for a decision I still would request that the Commission vote. I thought of, I hope the Commission will indulge in lobbying this for a second. But the reason I, we had many situations in Planning and Zoning where there are obligations that have to be fulfilled at a later date. We try to secure those as best we can but there really is no way around that. You know you could go through many, many actions and there are many things that require some kind of follow-up and that there€s some kind of check point for that. My point in talking about the worse case scenario was that if you had a worse case scenario and the kind of thing where you feel that you absolutely must have somethingdonenomatterwhatthenyoureallytrytowrapitupasbestyoucanandhaveit,have the assurances. I€m comfortable with this that the major way that I can see this fouling up is in the future is that somebody makes a mistake. Well that€s, that€s part of life. I mean that€s something you will always live with. So, I€m sorry to-, I€m going to shut up now. It€s really the time for the Commission to make a decision. ALAMEDA:Also I€d like to-, thank you Mr. Director but my two cents of it is as well is that given the unpredictable nature of the composition of our Commission in the future I€m still leaning towards the vote cause there€s no guarantee that our maker of the motion and the second Commissioner will be there. So, I€m still leaning towards a vote. Again if there€s no objections or if any further discussion from our fellow Commissioners I€d like to move forward. Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Just for the record I want to say that I fully support affordable housing and efforts that you€re making to-. This is (inaudible) developer to meet a very high community need and we all recognize that. I also want to note in the record that we do have letters from members of the public that expressed concern about deferring the building of this road, which was an original condition of the approval of the project. All that being said I think in the end my concerns about the specificity and the ease, relative ease of implementing any default in the future have been addressed. So with those comments I indicate my support of the motion. ALAMEDA:Further discussion? Moving forward with the vote. Staff? DARROW:Thank you Mr. Chair. Commissioner Watanabe? WATANABE:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Galdones? GALDONES:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Graham? EXHIBIT A 22 GRAHAM:No. DARROW:Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA:Aye with the reservations stated earlier. DARROW:And Mr. Chair? ALAMEDA:Aye. DARROW:The motion does not pass 4 to 1. ALAMEDA:Thank you for your time. You€ll be informed in writing. See you again. Seeingthatthere€snodecision.Thiswillcomeupontheagendaagain.Doesanybodyhaveany comments on that? Seeing none. This discussion ended at 10:49 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Lynette Marushige, West Hawai€i Secretary EXHIBIT A 23