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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2011-04-21 Leeward Exh B - DEM A regularly advertised hearing on the application of ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT (SPP 807/LUC DOCKET SP 91-379) was called to order at 11:26 a.m. in the West Hawai‘i Civic Center, Community Keohokalole Highway, Kailua-Kona, Hawai‘i, with Chair Geraldine COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Geraldine Giffin, Lani Bowman, Thomas Hic Wayne Iokepa and Richard Nelson ABSENT AND EXCUSED: Brandi Beaudet and Thomas Whittemore STAFF PRESENT: Julie Mecklenburg (Deputy Corporation Counsel), M (Deputy Planning Director), Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager and Maija Cottle (Staff Planner) And nine people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT (SPP 807/LUC DOCKET SP 91-379) Amendment to Special Permit No. 807 (State Land Use Commission D allow the sale of excess crushed rock from landfill excavation t approximately 306.525 acres within the State Land Use Agricultur located mauka of the Queen Ka‘ahumanu Highway, south of ‘Anaeho‘ North Kona, Hawai‘i, TMK: 7-1-003: 017. GIFFIN: Well, the Hawai‘i Leeward County Planning Commission mee order. Commissioners, we are on Agenda Item No. 2. Agenda Item N is the County Department of Environmental Management, SPP 807, L as I stated, this is a request for an amendment to Special Permi crushed rock from landfill excavation to contractors for on-isla DARROW: Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning. Good morning, Memb Commission. If I can direct your attention to our presentation o next application is within the North Kona District. More specifi ‘Anaeho‘omalu Bay, which is located in this general area in the subject property is outlined in red. You’ll notice the different particular zoning for this property is light green, which identi through the middle of the map is Queen Ka‘ahumanu Highway. This mauka of that in the ahupua‘a of Pu‘uanahulu. The property is ap This is a site plan that was submitted by the applicant. It’s a brought in two boards that they will be referring to in their pr plan of the project area. And this is an aerial photo. Again, it Basically, you have the Pu‘uanahulu landfill road coming off Que then we have the general location of the landfill in this area. on, as well as structures on the property. The applicant is requesting an amendment to Special Permit No. 8 LUC Docket No. SP 91-379. Originally, the Land Use Commission ap on February 18, 1992, to establish a sanitary landfill, access r landfill operations include the excavation and crushing of rock. cover material between layers of compacted refuse, others are us some are bermed on-site. The applicant is requesting to allow th landfill excavation to contractors for on-island use. The propos surplus rock from ongoing rock excavation and crushing activity, operations except for the loading of rock onto trucks for transp The Planning Director is recommending that the Planning Commissi recommendation to the Land Use Commission for the amendment requ Several items that I want to bring to the Commission’s attention the Planning Commission received the background and recommendati 2011, from the Department of Environmental Management. This is i Commission’s letter dated February 16, 2011, requesting addition th information was provided within this April 4letter. Additionally, this morning we received a letter from Melvin D. Macy, and that was handed out to the Commi reviewing our files, we found a letter dated April 1994 from the all conditions of approval for this particular permit had been c annual progress reports were required by the applicant. At this Condition 7 of the amendment, and that is the annual progress re 8 will be changed to Condition 7. With that, that concludes our questions? GIFFIN: Thank you. Commissioners, any questions of Jeff? Hearing the applicant’s representatives please come up? Good morning, Iv right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this mat County Planning Commission? TORIGOE: Yes. GIFFIN: Will you please state your name? TORIGOE: Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Ivan Torigoe, and I’ Counsel. I’m assigned to assist the Department of Environmental capacity that I’m here today. Also present is our Solid Waste Di Greg Goodale. We also have representatives from Waste Management contractor that manages the site of the landfill; we have the ge of Hawai‘i here, Mr. Joe Whelan, and we also have Mr. Mike Kaha basically he is the man on site. GIFFIN: Thank you. Would you like to elaborate further on this a TORIGOE: Well, first of all, let me just say that we have review background report, and with the correction, or the removal, of C with those. And thank you very much to the staff for their usual Just very briefly, the amendment that we are seeking is really a it does is allow for the County and Waste Management to dispose site that is excess to operations. And this is rock that is gene operations; it’s not stuff that has been quarried for commercial that sense it’s not changing operations at all; all we are doing permission to remove this rock from on-site. And obviously we do because for one thing that would really, you know, not allow the recoup any of the costs involved. In fact, Waste Management cont Management to get a license and sell rock to defray costs. And, just give the rock away, then that would be problematic in terms coming up today. But certainly we are not looking at running anything like a high quarry; all it is is the excess rock. At this point in time the volumes. The only reason that this has come up at this point is operations, the excess rock has reached about 150,000 to 200,000 justify going into sales. But the actual volume after that is go yards per year that is excess, which really doesn’t justify, you looking at really is perhaps having to further stockpile for thr again. So this is not the kind of situation where the County is, become a commercial rock crusher and quarry operation; it’s just that is generated by operations. And it is necessary to do that there is just not room to move the equipment around and do the w until now a lot of the rock was, and still is, used for on-site etc. But there is always going to be a certain amount of excess, off. Even now, if you go to the site, you’ll see very large berm actually kind of overbuilt those because, you know, of the exces potentially, could be a permit violation. So that kind of thing, So basically that’s it. We just need to be able to move this roc going to be we believe a low volume, that is really a significan are out there. So with that, we have, as I said, the Waste Manag Division Chief, and we’ll be happy to answer any questions. Than GIFFIN: Thank you, Mr. Torigoe. Questions of Ivan? Commissioner BOWMAN: A hundred-fifty to two hundred thousand cubic yards, rig considered commercial. Forgive me, I’m not really familiar with some of our testifiers – like a normal commercial quarry, they s TORIGOE: Commissioner Bowman, I’m going to -. GIFFIN: Please come up. Feel free to come up. And I will just sw the testimony. Will you please raise your right hand? Thank you. the truth on this matter now before the Hawai‘i Leeward County P KAHA: I do. GIFFIN: Thank you. Will you please state your name? KAHA: My name is Michael Kaha. The question is, before I say, yo commercial, you know, I would say that that’s something that you testifiers here. Right now that’s an unknown for us. And with ju or 17 years that’s on-site, which is generating this issue now. BOWMAN: Okay. I guess I have a second question, sorry, maybe you the price be competitive with a normal quarry, what they charge? TORIGOE: Madam Chair, if I may. GIFFIN: Yes, Mr. Torigoe. TORIGOE: At this point it’s premature for us to be able to make lot of bridges that we have to cross before we actually get to f anticipate, or we’d hope that it would be competitive. But among through DLNR to get a license from them to actually sell the roc would have some conditions that we’d have to meet in the land li obviously have to look at the market and try to be competitive, tell. BOWMAN: And, one more question. The proceeds, the money – I’m al And I know, I went to the Environmental Commission, their last m talking about budget cuts. Would it go back to the Department of the land or the -? GIFFIN: Lessee. TORIGOE: Waste Management? Yeah, I think what we would be lookin revenue sharing agreement. And again, you know, the State may wa course, Waste Management is entitled to a certain amount of reco possibly, you know, the County would be able to get some revenue BOWMAN: Okay, so there is nothing really done statistically mone effectiveness of this process. TORIGOE: I guess you are asking if we’ve determined what the pro point? BOWMAN: Yes. TORIGOE: We haven’t, if that’s your question. BOWMAN: Okay, thank you. GIFFIN: Any other questions of the applicant? Okay, hearing none and Mr. Kaha. We have two people who have signed up to testify, submitted written testimony. Kevin Balog and Mel Macy, please co Old Home Week – there is Ivan, and now there is Kevin, my goodne please raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the Hawai‘i Leeward County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. GIFFIN: Thank you. Starting with you, Kevin, will you please sta BALOG: Kevin Balog, P. O. Box 368 Pa‘auilo, Hawai‘i 96776. And I representing two companies: One is our mining company which is E Gravel LLC and the other one is our landholding company which is GIFFIN: Thank you. Why don’t you begin your testimony, Mr. Balog BALOG: Thank you, Chairman Giffin and fellow Members of the Leew Just a few things to clarify some of the representations that ar lowering cost to the County, but I think as a whole we need to u being asked of the Commission today. What’s being asked today is allowed an entity to develop a contract with the County to run a obligations when it entered into that contract; they knew they w they knew what they had to do, they knew they needed to crush th are asking you to amend the condition to allow them to sell it t Honorable Ivan Torigoe said, to hopefully have a share in the pr Either we pay through a tipping fee or through our property taxe people, the County pays Waste Management, and they get paid to e they get paid to cover – their costs are covered. We run an enti you people sitting up there, one of the Commissioners, or someon the phone, calls us up, no one is covering my cost. I don’t have partners are a government entity who has a piece of property, th says, “You know what, hey, we’re going to process this material cost.” My costs don’t get diverted; in fact, no one is coming to to help you out, Mr. Balog.” So it would be different, if the pr we are opening it up for a bid, we aren’t asking for, or declari an environmental assessment to do this, we’re going to be fair a asking. They are asking you today to waive their conditions, so are not allowing me or my company to do it. They are not allowin sitting right next to me, to go into the site and possibly eithe process it. Or even competition that isn’t here. What they are a them to do it and allow them to make the profit, and then make a already get for running a landfill. All my tax dollars, all of y here, paid for all the improvements you see, connecting to the l remember it’s our money. So when they tell you, “Oh, we knew we we want to come into compliance,” I agree with all of that. But and you allow people to come in and be part of the process and b when you are excluding everyone and you are saying, “No, we are that runs the landfill,” that wasn’t their purpose when they ope 175,000 tons is not much, well, I guess in today’s economy 175,0 or two years’ worth of the business – I don’t know about my comp MACY: That’s yards. Three hundred thousand -. BALOG: Yards. Three hundred thousand tons -. MACY: Maybe 400,000. BALOG: They also claim that it’s minor. In their own release – t paperwork – they say that 5,000,000 cubic yards, or 11,000,000 t they keep using this thing, “Oh, it’s just a minor change, there we are doing, we are only taking what we are already doing and w the site,” well, I mean, I run a quarry, I know he runs a quarry you’re not going to do what you are doing today – it’s impossibl if you are going to sell it, as it’s already disclosed in their You don’t make AC rock out of rubbish. And on top of that, it’s definitely different than the gradation used for cover material. quarry that sells and makes many different products to compete w which they said, yes, they want to make a profit and share with a landfill and the County would actually step up and say, “We ha Hawai‘i Concrete, would DeLuz Trucking, would CTS” – Glover does have one on the east side, but they run operations on the west s bid, or anyone else in the general public like to bid for the ex the excess material and sell it to the general public” – that’s difference. On top of that, part of, the next part of what I have to say is think about it till I heard the earlier application, and I’m thi think West Hawai‘i started, on Parker Ranch land; our direct sal but our direct sales actually helped the beneficiaries of Parker goes through problems and has needs, and they distribute it. And before, and I was, on the last application, it’s true, the trust they have no money to distribute, who are they helping? On this compete, I’m not hiding that – we try to go everywhere we can; w Parker Ranch quarry to Waimea. I can tell you. If I can, I sell West Hawai‘i, I sell it in Kohala, I sell it anywhere. But the p that they make is Parker Ranch. If I’m successful enough to sell that’s all on me. No one’s making my road improvements; if I nee they tell me, “Mr. Balog, you need to put in your own driveway a before you start.” So I would warn you guys – I mean I can go on and on about how f shouldn’t send a favorable recommendation – but I’d warn you guy And we are saying, as a commission that is, you guys are only su but in this case you have to broaden what you are looking at and government entity that has someone in there that was allowed an were getting into, and now they are asking to have that cost fur outside businesses that employ people. That would force me to la into the market place. Now, if I knew it was fair and it was unp buddy here went and processed it, I know what I’m up against. Bu figured it out, they have several steps to go. They can’t answer profit margin? I can’t believe they don’t know what their propos they want to do it. I can guarantee you, he will know. So -. GIFFIN: Mr. Balog, we need to move along, as you know. BALOG: Thank you. GIFFIN: Thank you very much. Mr. Macy? MACY: Yes. I believe all you have a copy of my testimony. I’m so there, Madam Chair. GIFFIN: That’s all right. MACY: Okay, for the sake of time, I’m just going to read my test Madam Chair and the other members of the Commission and the Coun me the time to testify on the amendment to Special Permit No. 80 I’m testifying as a quarry operator. And my concern is that if t the aggregate market place, I see a potential problem for the qu Big Island, for all the quarry operators. Now, if understand thi and the landfill operator, and Big Island taxpayers, of course, operator to strip overburden, drill and shoot rock, remove the p the material in an accessible area. And I know from many years o we run the numbers on this, this is pretty much doing this work cost of producing a finished aggregate. Now, finished aggregate, asphalt product, so just getting it in the stockpile in the dril of the total cost of producing the finished aggregate. Now, the cost in it whereas the quarry operators will have this inherent existing quarries or any quarries that may want to open in the f disadvantage. Our first choice would be that the County of Hawai compete with the local aggregate producers and you continue to d you’ve done since the opening of the landfill. One possibility t that maybe the County of Hawai‘i use this product for their own site preparation or things like that, that’s only for their purp the local quarry operators. And, you know, we have no one to sub fairness issue, if the County does decide to compete with us, th decide to compete with us. So I’m requesting you do not allow th Thank you. GIFFIN: You’re welcome. Commissioners, any questions of Mr. Macy very much -. BOWMAN: I do have a question. GIFFIN: I’m sorry. Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: I’m sorry. And forgive my ignorance again about the rock are creating there? I’m just not, I’m a little confused about th and – forgive me – that would be sold as AC grade fill, or -? MACY: Well, AC is what they call asphalt concrete, which is just rock to suit that requirement, you have to crush it down to the of sand. And it’s a very specific gradation that you have to mak and crushing to get it to the right size to be able to put the o that answer your question? BOWMAN: But the excess at the landfill is not this grade. MACY: Well, when it comes out of the cells, it’s like in about a okay, meaning it’s large stuff. And then if you want to use it a take it and run it through more crushing plants to get it down t base, for asphalt, for concrete, for any of those other products in coming out of the cells because it’s just too big a product. be sold to a project to fill a hole or something like that. But finish-grade product at that point in my opinion. BOWMAN: Okay, just maybe one more question for both of you since And again, pardon my ignorance but, would it be something that q not the AC grade, as to buy it from the landfill and then create MACY: You mean to haul it out of there? Well, to haul that stuff to get it somewhere else because it’s a very large product and y actually move that stuff around; your regular highway trucks don BOWMAN: Thank you. I figured this much. GIFFIN: Mr. Balog, did you want to add something? BALOG: Yeah, to both questions. One is on Page 2 of what they su that there was a road project that specifies about 1,600 tons of you read on the Department of Environmental Management Potential know why they even disclose that under Adverse because they are make a size and transport it off the site, and there’s 324 truck do they plan on taking a 2-foot rock and making it smaller? Yes, way they are going to sell it off the site. The other thing is t a little confused, is that the County has the opportunity, which side but on the east side, to open this up to quarry operators o mine or process material that has material available. And the St east side. So it’s not that the County’s hands are ever tied tha material, bid on this extra material and process it, and whateve but you pay us our royalty,” because that’s already done. There whatever you want to call it, that’s done by the State of Hawai‘ island. GIFFIN: Commissioner Bowman? Nothing? BOWMAN: No. Thank you. Not yet. GIFFIN: You’re welcome. Any other questions of the two testifier very much. Ivan, I’m sure -. Oh, Mike. Again, Old Home Week, rig want to testify? Of course, you may. Mike, will you please raise LUCE: Sure. GIFFIN: Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter County Planning Commission? LUCE: I do. GIFFIN: Thank you. Your name, please. LUCE: My name is Mike Luce, L-U-C-E. I live up the highway from Moani Pkake Place. Chairman Giffin reminded me of Old Home Week. I didn today intending to testify, but I looked at this application. Th happened to be the Planning Commission Chairman when that went t This application, ladies and gentlemen, was very controversial. selection. The Resort Association was very concerned. Residents use permit, as I’m sure you’ve learned and staff has told you, i nobody wants – a prison, a quarry, a landfill, a sewer treatment They are the orphaned child kind of society. But I would ask you but has staff given you the environmental study that was done as Because, to the best of my knowledge, a quarry operation was nev sensitive permit. Also, in that environmental study, trucking ru was never contemplated. This permit barely passed, as I recall, Resort Association because of all the mitigating conditions and have something somewhere closer than Hilo or closer than the Kaipala. So there is a rich history to this permit. I’m just going to roll through a couple of considerations that I haven’t given the environmental study for this permit, that you don’t see them weighing in on this yet. I mentioned the environm quarry operations or rubbish from East Hawai‘i. There are existi You can see them – there is one up Waikoloa Road and there is an And this application is not just for selling material in C2 in t stockpiled, and I believe it’s crushed, Commissioner Bowman, to the specs for cover material are much less stringent than they a The one that really got me, as I thumbed through this applicatio the applicant is self-exempting themselves from the environmenta privy to overnight use of the materials: I just looked at it. I excuse me, Chair – that’s County Office of Environmental Managem GIFFIN: Department of Environmental Management. LUCE: DEM. And the agency that is exempting themselves, that’s e environmental assessment is the DEM. This to me is a huge confli entered into a contract with Waste Management that would allow t material, which is in conflict with the conditions of the permit the permit, so it complies with the -. I think maybe the whole c course, the previous testifiers talked about who is to profit fr Waste Management? It’s not minor; it’s 11,000,000 tons you are a operation. There is also an option to do what other agencies do somebody else come and offer, you know, put it out to a good old I think, fiducially is bound to do that. I don’t know what the t but apparently they didn’t comply with the conditions of the per is the successful bidder, they can handle all the permits of DLN that. I would just urge you, in closing, to just consider these things here today to ask to defer action on this application, look at t more about it, and ask staff to develop you recommendations for Staff will do that for you. And that’s what I’m testifying, aski develop some conditions for an unfavorable recommendation. I tha my best to answer any questions. And then Old Home Week, it feel even, no matter what side of the table. Thank you, Madam Chairma GIFFIN: Commissioners, any questions of Mike Luce. None? Thank y please come back up? And did you want to have the other two men TORIGOE: Yes, Madam Chair, we probably should have them just in they can help with. GIFFIN: Okay. And I think I need to swear you in. Will you pleas you. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now County Planning Commission? WHELAN: I do. GIFFIN: Thank you. Will you please state your name in the mike? WHELAN: My name is Joe Whelan, general manager, Waste Management GIFFIN: Thank you very much. Ivan? TORIGOE: Thank you, Madam Chairman. Yeah, there are a number of that we want to respond to. There was some suggestion that we co of the rock. That is something that would probably present some a landfill, it’s not a quarry – is a highly regulated solid wast contractor come on and run a basically part of a quarry operatio with respect to, you know, making sure that they did not interfe including the ingress and egress of the people who are coming in as other County trash hauling trailers. So, you know, we have to of private operations we allow to come in the landfill because i There was mention made of the Saddle Road project. And that was as a truly hypothetical kind of a worst case or best case scenar of what the highest possible volume type of project would be. An of that was to show that even in that kind of scenario we would trucks per day approximately coming to and from the landfill, yo So from the traffic standpoint, that clearly was not significant agreed with that. There was comment about how, why we don’t have an idea what the at this point this is like the first step in the process. Before out what the numbers actually would be, we want to make sure tha Commission and with the Land Use Commission that this is somethi And as I said, we would have to go through a number of hoops bef numbers. There was also mention that this is in fact a land use board. An is that, you know, the function of the Commission and the LUC is proposed change is an unusual and reasonable use consistent with land use. And really boards such as this are not charged with ma As far as the volume of overall rock, the number, the 5,000,000 included are basically talked about the entire excavation. But t lines of, I believe, 3,000,000 cubic yards over the life, entire are actually looking at, as I stated before, is about 15,000 cub little bit, when I mentioned that not being really a commerciall that’s, I think that’s what we are figuring that you wouldn’t wa have about 15,000 cubic yards available; you want to wait, you k to have enough of a stockpile so you can actually do some commer the market would be somewhat limited by distance. There was test commercial sellers would like to sell wherever they can on the i the County is proposing here is that we simply want to dispose o as a result of operations. Obviously, when you pull out a certai order to make a waste cell and you put waste in there, you are n you are not going to be able to use all of the rock that you do and we’ll need to dispose of, and that is all that we are lookin the clientele for the rock would be limited by distance as cost factor. The landfill has used about as much of the rock that it point. And that’s why we have the amount that has been stockpile or so. There was a mention of the environmental assessment exemption. A explicitly permitted under HAR, Hawai‘i Administrative Rules, fo believe it’s 12-200-8 – don’t quote me on that – but there is a which specifically allows agencies to declare an exemption withi within HRS Chapter 343, in this case, operations of ongoing faci apparently not be any more than minimal or no effects on the env are doing is to have some change to operations, essentially just the site. So this is something that in my write-up I did explain including the Office of Environmental Quality Control, and we ar or the department is authorized to make that kind of exemption f Madam Chair, I’d like to ask Mr. Whelan to comment briefly on th operations as relates to the rock production. GIFFIN: Yes, by all means. WHELAN: We heard a comment earlier about the volume that we are existing operations, which have been ongoing for some 17 years, lava flow, which means it’s all rock. We go in there and excavat So when we process some of that rock for daily cover, we also pr landfill cells as a part of engineering process to develop those designed to haul rubbish, there is excess material that’s left o facility. What we are asking to do is to be able to sell off tha forward, we will continue to make landfill space available, as i island’s refuse on the leeward side. But we are not looking to e landfill; all we are doing is as we create cells, we have to hav material that is not used for either daily cover or future landf process that is already ongoing. We are just looking for your ap material and sell it off. GIFFIN: Commissioners? Commissioner Bowman. You are inching towa BOWMAN: I wish I was more astute on landfill operations. So when excavating cells, that’s basically like a puka to put the -. WHELAN: Yeah, when we start off a particular cell. When the land permitted, there was a defined area that a certain number of acr EIS that’s done on it; we are not looking to increase that size time there, we take the one-acre, two-acre, three-acre parcels, make a hole on the ground, more or less, then we go back in and along with plastic liners and other things that make up the desi two-acre, whatever parcel within there that we’ve excavated, as when we take waste material comes through the gate, it’s weighed the end of the day we take more of the rock that we processed an flies and other things from it – so it’s called a daily cover. W are creating a new cell, we have to also take some of the rock t process it, which we do now, and make that as bedding for this l the landfill when the individual cells are full. When we do that hole in the ground and we filled it with garbage, the amount tha back in, so it creates an excess. The first five years that we w and made the visual barriers and the roadways and infrastructure that amount of time, since then we’ve been stockpiling this mate point where the landfill itself is probably 40 percent or so ful with garbage, the less storage space we’ve got to put the excess point in time where we are coming before you to say we have all to sell it off, and that allows obviously for us to then go in t next year and then next year. But we are not looking to take the a quarry business; we are looking to you, take the excess that w landfill cells and be able to sell that off. Does that answer yo BOWMAN: Yeah, it does. So what Ivan said was that to bid it out your operations, but -. WHELAN: No. Right. And the reason, we have in the past had contr site that worked directly for us that have processed some materi subcontracted to us. And because we are the manager of the landf there are certain regulatory compliance and permit requirements certainly a lot of liabilities that we have by the fact that we have someone else outside of the company that helps us to proces something that we are controlling, which is completely different someone comes onto our permitted landfill and does some construc influence that we would have as far as the regulatory. BOWMAN: Okay. Just one last -. Pardon me. I hear 3,000,000 tons, tons, and I can’t quite do the math with 150 to 200 cubic yards. WHELAN: There’s 3,000,000 yards in excess and that’s -. BOWMAN: Three million yards, not tons. WHELAN: Yes. And the, it’s really 5,000,000 or 6,000,000 yards t took every bit of stone that’s inside the 300 acres and removed We use some of that material, as I mentioned, to build new cells never going to want to sell that off because that’s part of the permit to use. So only the excess over the 40-year life of the l yards, which means that we are not producing a lot of excess on BOWMAN: So 3,000,000 yards – and I apologize, but I hear people and then cubic yards, and I’m confused – so you are talking 3,00 WHELAN: Yards, right. And the numbers are different because obvi rocks; so they weigh more than the natural yards, not one for on BOWMAN: Okay, thank you. GIFFIN: Any other questions? This material that you are proposin WHELAN: Only if you are building roads or buildings or that sort GIFFIN: So to a quarry operator, that would be valuable? WHELAN: It would be, yes. GIFFIN: Okay. WHELAN: I mean, it’s rock, it’s, at this point it’s unprocessed you know, that’s why we want to, you know, remove it from the si also would like to make a profit while we are doing it because i GIFFIN: I guess my question is of the County, our staff. Jeff, t asking if we have been given a copy of the environmental study. there a reason that we did not, or did I miss it? Was it given t DARROW: No, Madam Chair. As Ivan Torigoe had mentioned, the appl under Chapter 343 and they had received an exemption. If you loo applicant, there is a Declaration of Exemption, which goes into review for the request of the exemption, and -. GIFFIN: Jeff, can you tell us what page that’s on? DARROW: I don’t think there is – it’s within the application – I pages. It’s after the site plan. GIFFIN: Yeah, yeah. DARROW: The No. 4 under – well, let me get here – within the Dec have a memorandum that is attached, and under Roman numeral II, sorry – yes, under Roman numeral II, if you look at No. 4 under says “Consultation With Other Agencies,” the applicant had consu regarding this request for exemption. So it just wasn’t somethin Department of Environmental Management; the exemption list was t they had consulted with many different departments regarding thi Planning Department, as well as many other agencies that are lis why there was no environmental assessment attached to the applic GIFFIN: Okay, thank you. And I guess my other question is of Iva from the testifiers regarding why not an open bid, I mean, is th contemplate, or no? TORIGOE: I think the general concern that we have, as stated by regulated landfill, and so if at all possible I think both the C like to avoid having private contractors who would be doing any operations on the landfill because we want to make sure that the violation of any of the landfill conditions. If I may add also that if there is a real concern about the volu or sold, I think, you know, we are stating repeatedly that all w rock that is produced as a byproduct. So if, you know, there wou simply states that there would be no excavation of rock beyond t operations, and no sale of rock beyond what is necessary to main would have a problem with that. That’s what we are representing. GIFFIN: Any other questions of the applicant. Lani? Commissioner BOWMAN: And again, maybe Public Works can answer this. Are there around to utilize this? I don’t know, maybe I’m being a Pollyann TORIGOE: To tell you the truth, we haven’t, I don’t think we hav there is a way to tell, you know, for any reasonably useful leng you know, how much rock is going to be needed by County projects of how that would be incorporated into the bidding process. Norm projects, you know, you have bids that go out, and I suppose wha make available to them some kind of County price list or somethi the process. So I have to say that we have not looked closely at forecast. And, you know, the plain fact of the matter is that we difficult for us to make any commitment to say that we are going off onto County projects. And we really have no way of telling w projects is going to be. IOKEPA: Madam Chair, I have a question. GIFFIN: Commissioner Iokepa. IOKEPA: So with respect to the original application that you did wasn’t part of that plan to mitigate this kind of material that TORIGOE: I think it was always understood that there would be a would have to be exported or, you know, dealt with in some way. contract did have this provision for rock sales. Also, the execu turned the land over to the County, made provisions for the DLNR DLNR, of course, reserves the usual rights to the rock, so we wo yeah, I think the record would show that this is something that was always contemplated that the rock might be sold. GIFFIN: Any other questions? Hang on one minute, Mike. Commissio Bowman. BOWMAN: You know, I watch members of the public and I just think anything else, that would help us, because I’m kind of, not conf GIFFIN: Unsure. BOWMAN: Unsure. Thank you. So maybe more testimony could help -. GIFFIN: Yeah, I will, yeah, no, no, I was not going to say no, I why don’t you come up and -. There is a seat right here. That’s LUCE: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just, as I sit here reminiscing this permit was 306 acres that have ample land, a huge amount of foreseeable future. And it’s not like 17 years later they go, “O Here is the land. We dig all these holes. It was always known, C be a surplus. And the 306 acres allows ample place to get rid of you, and, you know, maybe the County has projections that say th don’t recall that. The other thing is this thing about unfair co businessman, that’s very important to me. But I don’t think, bec request for an amendment to a condition and they’ve exempted the agencies’ support, you are not getting a lot of public testimony environmental assessment with a comment period. And, you know, y to check into – they were so, they have a vested interested in t operations and they’re employing people, too. So anyway, I basic way over and above what was projected back in 1991. Thank you. GIFFIN: Thank you, Mike. Commissioners, I -. BOWMAN: I have another -. GIFFIN: Good. Kevin, would you like to come up? Is that why your TORIGOE: Madam Chair, I don’t know if you would like to have one people respond to that issue regarding whether you can stockpile GIFFIN: Before we call on Kevin? Sure, sure. TORIGOE: Thank you. WHELAN: Since the original permit was issued, the County has det completed construction on other areas of the landfill, I think, probably about a third or so -. BOWMAN: Could you show us on -? WHELAN: For other types of waste management – there would be gre believe there is an area there for pounding vehicles, and there are all future types of developments that the County has anticip with fencing and blacktop and whatever and roadways and infrastr be used at the landfill as they become economically feasible. It Waste Management; it’s just a part of the site that they have co makes that amount of land not available to stockpile material. GIFFIN: Part of the 306 acres. WHELAN: Yes, correct. GIFFIN: Yeah, okay. WHELAN: And currently what we have been doing is, on the actual designated just for landfill cell development, we have been stoc create new cells. And now we are at the point where about 40 per created, which means we have less space to actually store the ex GIFFIN: Okay, thank you. Mr. Balog. BALOG: Just to clarify a few things. And I’ll try and go real fa outside person on the quarry wouldn’t be compatible with their u Leeward Planning Commission, but I know you are well traveled. I they have a wonderful landfill operation. There’s quarries right Management has, I believe, run rock trucks. They tell you right stockpiling on other areas to deliver the raw rock that’s unproc and have that bid out from the County to another processor, or p bid against other processors – they have that ability. That’s no next thing is that for some reason they are trying to tell you t day. Well, I can’t sit back there and stomach someone telling yo operation; if a contractor tells you they need 1,000 tons today, trucks, meaning one truck an hour – that’s impossible. And I’m n say that’s what is going to happen – it’s not. So when they tell hour, that’s not what is going to happen. And construction doesn it today, you deliver it today. So if you need to have 50 loads that’s what is going out. It’s not going to be Waste Management selling something to for a profit, and says, “You heed my schedu Yes, when you have no work, it could possibly be one load an hou going to be different. Have they done a traffic study to show th you – and you guys had good questions – the original environment they’ve got an exemption. Yes, they did it in-house, it’s all le why. Think about that. Hey, you guys are lucky; you had the chai you what it said in 1991. So my thing is, think, act on your own delay, ask questions, get more information. It doesn’t prevent y And, you know, that’s all I’ve got to say. Thank you for your ti GIFFIN: Thank you. BOWMAN: So, could we have an executive session to confer with ou GIFFIN: Our corp. counsel? By all means, by all means. But I thi NELSON: I so move. GIFFIN: Okay. Second? BOWMAN: Second. GIFFIN: It’s been moved by Commissioner Nelson, seconded by Comm into executive session to speak to our corp. counsel for input. COMMISSIONERS: Aye. GIFFIN: All those opposed? Okay. EXECUTIVE SESSION The Commission went into executive session at out of executive session at 12:58 p.m. by a motion made by Commissioner Bowman, seconded by Commissioner Nelson, and unanimously carried by a voice vote of all Commissioners in attendance. GIFFIN: We are at the point of discussion, and so I would like t HICKCOX: Madam Chair? GIFFIN: Yes, Commissioner Hickcox. HICKCOX: I believe that the scope and purview of this Commission actual areas involving vehicular traffic and environmental areas conditions as set forth in the studies that were presented to us requirements in reference to air quality, etc. etc. and traffic presentation to us. If there is anything that I see lacking as f look at, it would perhaps be conditions that hold the applicant application itself. So that’s my point. Thank you. GIFFIN: Thank you, Commissioner. Any other comments? I do think Hickcox just said is well taken. Correct me if I’m wrong that, J condition that would cover the concerns that Commissioner Hickco DARROW: Correct, Madam Chair. GIFFIN: Okay. Any other comments? Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: Nothing yet. GIFFIN: Okay. PUBLIC: Excuse me, Chair. Are you still taking any public commen GIFFIN: No, at this point, I’m sorry, we are not. We are trying are trying to do is come to some sort of – actually, what I woul whatever – but we are trying to formulate some sort of decision. Jeff, although we didn’t close public testimony, are we at the p deliberation without any more input from the public? DARROW: Yeah, it’s, at this point, if you are in deliberations, and then a vote. GIFFIN: Thank you very much. And we are at the point of delibera got input from legal counsel, we are really deliberating. So, is Commissioners, you have some feelings about in terms of this age Bowman. BOWMAN: You know, I think what confused me, or maybe, is that we and I think we’ve been talking about the sales and who to sell i that’s under our purview. So I think it’s been confusing in a wa know, what they are going to do with it; I mean it’s there, and with it, so, I mean they do need to do something with it. So, yo and how much, I think it’s not under our purview. I just wanted BO be it c BO Us MEC GIFFIN: Oh, yeah, yes, that’s why it would be 8. And thank you for clarify, Commissioner Iokepa has moved and Commissioner Hickcox favorable recommendation to the state Land Use Commission regard LUC Docket No. SP 91-379, including the exclusion of the old Con presented to us, and the renumbering of Condition No. 8 to becom Condition No. 8, which would be similar to what we were told the me if I’m wrong, Commissioner Hickcox – that this condition woul representations that were made to us in today’s hearing. GI re BO AR Pl EX DARROW: Commissioner Bowman? BOWMAN: Aye. DARROW: Commissioner Nelson? NELSON: Aye. DARROW: And Madam Chair? GIFFIN: Aye. DARROW: The motion passes, five to zero. GIFFIN: Thank you. The discussion ended at 1:07 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Noriko Sauer, Secretary Leeward Planning Commission 21 EXHIBIT B