HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-05-01 TARROW
PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
MAY 1, 2009
ARROW OF OREGON/HAWAII, LLC
A regularly advertised hearing on the application of
(SPP 09-76)
was called to order at 11:17 a.m. in the Aupuni Center Conference Room,
101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i with Chairman Rell Woodward presiding.
PRESENT: Rell Woodward
Takashi Domingo
Wallace Ishibashi
Andrew Iwashita
Shelly Ogata
Brandon Gonzalez, Deputy Corporation Counsel
BJ Leithead Todd, Planning Director
Norman Hayashi, Staff Planner
Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner
Maija Cottle, Staff Planner
And two people from the public in attendance
APPLICANT: ARROW OF OREGON/HAWAII, LLC (SPP 09-76)
Special Permit to allow a cinder and rock quarry operation on 5.003 acres of land situated within
the State Land Use Agricultural District. The properties are located at the corner of Mahimahi
Drive and Liliana Lane, Hawaiian Ocean View Estates Subdivision, Kahuku, Ka‘u, Hawaii,
TMK: 9-2-148:1 to 5.
WOODWARD: We can probably get through this last item. I know there is a question
about one more document that needs to be filed before the background and recommendation.
But since we have I believe the applicant here -. Jeff, did you have anything to present or not on
Item No. 6?
DARROW: Not at this time.
WOODWARD: Okay.
DARROW: Mr. Chair, just to give some background on this to the Commissioners,
through our background and recommendation preparation for this application, we had received a
comment letter from the Department of Public Works. They were asking that the applicant be
required to have the quarry site evaluated by and follow recommendations of an engineer
qualified in the field of soil and mechanics for minimum setbacks from the subdivision road and
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adjacent properties and to establish and maintain safe operational and resultant stability of the
entire quarry site. What we at the Planning Department did, the Planning Director had sent a
letter to the applicant requesting that they hire a soils engineer to be able to submit a report with
this information to us so that we could prepare appropriate conditions for this. We had asked for
that report to be submitted prior to this date. Because we haven’t received it, we are asking for a
continuance of this matter. But we understand that the applicant and representatives are here
today.
WOODWARD: Very good. So the applicant, I guess, is asking for a continuance and
based on the fact that their submission is -.
LEITHEAD TODD: I don’t think the applicants are asking for the continuance. It was the
Department. Applicant has come and he has brought a soils engineer with him.
WOODWARD: Okay, very good.
LEITHEAD TODD: But they haven’t submitted a report.
WOODWARD: Okay. Well, we’ll certainly be willing to take testimony, although it’s
unlikely we’ll be able to make a decision. But if we could have the applicant and whoever
would like to speak come up to the table. And just so I don’t get ahead of myself, we have
nobody from the public signed up to testify.
Okay, gentlemen, if you’ll raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth today
before the Windward Planning Commission?
CHAMBERLAIN: I do.
THOMAS: I do.
WOODWARD: Very good. All right. And then one at a time we’ll take it. Whoever
wants to go first, if you would just give us your name and address, and then you’re free to begin
your testimony. If you’ll speak into the microphone, sir.
CHAMBERLAIN: Yeah, Joe Chamberlain, 15666 Northeast Eilers Road, Aurora, Oregon,
97002. I -.
WOODWARD: If you would speak into the microphone, sir, since we’re recording.
CHAMBERLAIN: When I last met with the board then they did tell me to get a soils engineer
now. And I immediately started searching for one. Soils engineers are not plentiful supply
around. And right now we got Mr. Thomas to finally sign onto this, but he has been very, very
busy. We just got to the property and inspected it yesterday. And that is our reason, that his
schedule has been such and he wasn’t able to get the written report out. I would say you could
talk to him now, and he could give you a fairly good outline of where this thing is going.
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WOODWARD: All right. Any questions for this testifier? Seeing none, all right. Sir, if
you’d just give us your name and address and then begin your testimony.
THOMAS: My name is Robert Thomas. I’m with Construction Engineering Labs,
and we’re located at 1173 Waihona Street, Pearl City. And at the request of Mr. Chamberlain,
we went out and did a preliminary observation of the property to scope out our investigative
measures and to address any concerns that the Commission and Planning Department may have
in the development of the property as a mining site. As we approached the site, I noticed that
there were a number of uncontrolled 1-acre mines under operation and had significant concern.
And I can commend and understand your concerns for proper slope stability and setbacks from
the property lines. And Mr. Chamberlain is to be commended for not mining his property until
those proper measures have been taken.
Taking a look at the materials that we have along those slopes, I had a lot of concerns with the
prior mining operations and the vertical cuts that were made right up to the property lines
themselves. And I learned today that there was an accident previously that resulted in the death,
and Mining Safety and Health Administration has become involved.
In taking a look at the property and taking a look at perspective yields from this property we’re
going in the direction of recommending a minimum of five- to ten-acre plot for mining
operations to adequately address the safety concerns as well as the economics. Breaking up the
lots into smaller zones with slopes and setbacks will definitely cut into the potential yield of this
area. We are looking at stabilizing the slopes with a system most likely comprised of the
shotcrete, soil anchors and wire mesh to stabilize that slope. And I understand that
Mr. Chamberlain is proposing to excavate down to at least a 100-foot depth below the existing
grades, maybe even deeper depending upon stability concerns and resources.
I also wanted to address the Commission to make sure that our investigation and our report meet
all of your concerns and questions, and cover any areas including MPDS concerns for this
particular property.
WOODWARD: I’ll direct that to the Planning Director.
LEITHEAD TODD: Our biggest concerns in this area, some of the items that you mentioned is
that in some of the prior lots because they are one-acre, only 83-feet wide, and guys have done
vertical cuts, it has led to areas where we’ve been concerned about stability of the nearby roads
and also the impact to neighboring properties. Because, you know, there’s one lot which is
going to come in, and it’s kind of in a strange situation. It’s a one-acre lot. But what happened
is everybody excavated around him. So even though it’s a one-acre lot, what he has is property
that is sitting 78 to 56 feet above what has been mined around him. So he wants to be able to
come in and basically bring his lot down to try and meet what has already occurred, because
otherwise he has got these vertical slopes and not much width. And we were looking at
perspectively trying to go in the direction that Arrow of Oregon is talking about in terms of
having minimum operational sizes of at least five acres because we wanted some slope stability.
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So the basic thing that we would be looking at is what type of slope arrangements and what types
of conditions would be required in order to ensure that the operation could be done safely for the
people working there, and also to provide for safety of the neighboring property or any stability
for any roads in the nearby area. And that’s basically what we’re looking at.
WOODWARD: Let me ask one question of the Planning Director. First I’ll ask the
testifier, have these five lots been consolidated?
CHAMBERLAIN: Yes.
WOODWARD: So you have consolidated them into one lot?
CHAMBERLAIN: Yes.
WOODWARD: Okay, very good. That answers my question.
IWASHITA: Mr. Chair?
LEITHEAD TODD: Mr. Chair, I’m not sure if they’ve been consolidated per se, but he has
acquired title to all five acres. And you’re coming in with the application as to cover all five
acres, correct?
CHAMBERLAIN: Well, I’m not sure what the status, excuse me.
LEITHEAD TODD: I’m just double checking with staff. Has it actually been consolidated into
one lot?
DARROW: To my understanding, it’s still five separate 1-acre lots.
LEITHEAD TODD: Yeah. But the application covers all five lots and he would be doing the
operation on the five, five acres?
DARROW: Yes.
WOODWARD: All right.
CHAMBERLAIN: We have submitted everything that was requested of us for the five lots.
WOODWARD: Very good.
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DARROW: Just for your understanding, Mr. Chamberlain, what he’s asking is if
you’ve taken the five separate lots and made it one big lot?
CHAMBERLAIN: Yes.
DARROW: At this time, you still have separate TMK’s, correct, five separate parcels?
CHAMBERLAIN: I don’t think so. It was supposed to have been consolidated. We put that
in months ago.
DARROW: Okay.
WOODWARD: Well, the question I have is because each of these lots have setbacks from
the sides, and from the back and from the front, and I don’t know the legal standpoint whether
you need to consolidate them to overcome that problem with the setbacks between the lots.
CHAMBERLAIN: They said we had to consolidate them; and we’ve submitted all the paper
work. It’s to my knowledge, that it was.
LEITHEAD TODD: The setbacks usually apply to construction of buildings, because the
setbacks are to provide adequate space between one property and the next so you don’t have fire
leaping from one house to another. So in this kind of situation where he’s looking at an
operation, the setback requirements would not be an issue.
WOODWARD: Thank you.
DARROW: We can follow up on, to see if that -.
LEITHEAD TODD: We can look up the consolidation.
WOODWARD: Yeah, that would be worthwhile to find out about it. Commissioner
Iwashita.
IWASHITA: It’s a timing question. How long will it take for you to prepare a report as
requested by the Department?
THOMAS: We’re looking at three to four weeks to complete it.
IWASHITA: Thank you.
WOODWARD: And Madam Director, how much time do you need? It looks like the next
meeting might be a little premature if it’s going to be four weeks.
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LEITHEAD TODD: Well, we’ll wait for the report, and then we would set this for a meeting,
on the next available Planning Commission meeting.
WOODWARD: Very good. Commissioner Iwashita?
IWASHITA: I’m prepared to move for continuance.
WOODWARD: All right.
IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that Item No. 6, applicant Arrow of
Oregon/Hawaii, LLC., SPP 09-76, be continued until it’s reset at the discretion of the
Department.
WOODWARD: And Corporation Counsel has suggested that we add applicant submit a
written soil report as initially requested on April 2, 2009 to be submitted prior to, it was to be
submitted, prior to the meeting of May 2009. Well, that would be tough. So I would suggest
that maybe if this is all right with you, Commissioner Iwashita, that applicant needs to submit a
written soil report and that it will be agendized at the next available East side meeting. Is that
acceptable to you?
IWASHITA: Well, I would word it that the resetting will not take place until the
applicant submits the soil report previously requested by the Department.
WOODWARD: All right, very good. Do I have a second?
DOMINGO: Second.
WOODWARD: Okay. Any discussion?
IWASHITA: Just ask the, I would ask the applicant if there was any objection to it.
WOODWARD: Are you all right with that approach?
CHAMBERLAIN: I would like to know just exactly what you voted on.
WOODWARD: Well, we haven’t voted yet. But what the vote will be will be that once we
receive the written soil report we will schedule the hearing for the next available meeting, cause
we don’t know exactly when it’s going to be. If the Department doesn’t get it for four weeks the
next meeting is going to be a couple days and they need to prepare a background -.
CHAMBERLAIN: We can speed that up a little bit.
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LEITHEAD TODD: Basically the problem is that without the report the Department cannot
prepare the appropriate conditions on the permit. So we need the report so we can specify
conditions under what circumstances a mining operation could take place.
CHAMBERLAIN: Okay, now what is the very best (asking Mr. Thomas) -?
LEITHEAD TODD: No, you don’t have to tell us that.
CHAMBERLAIN: Oh, okay.
WOODWARD: Yeah, we will arrange to have it scheduled a-s-a-p once we get that report.
CHAMBERLAIN: Right, I will be on it.
WOODWARD: Okay. All right. And Corporation Counsel said that I should mention that
the delay is due to the fact that this written soil report was not submitted, that was requested by
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the Department on April 2.
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CHAMBERLAIN: April 2 is the first day that I even found a soils engineer that I could get
a return call from.
WOODWARD: Okay, very good.
LEITHEAD TODD: I understand.
WOODWARD: Okay, is there any further discussion? Okay, we have a motion and a
second. Jeff.
CHAMBERLAIN: Now there were some other issues on -. There were some other questions
there that had come up about us going in there doing some grading; and I’d like to get a
clarification from you people -. I have at the last meeting said that I would go in there and do the
remedial work as far as cutting Mahimahi Street down and getting these old holes filled so that
we got rid of the safety problems. And in return for that I asked that, you know, this thing be
facilitated and that these two people where the holes are dug there now would be relieved of any
fines if I remedied the situation and done the earthwork, which is about $25,000 worth of work.
Can we get any relief from you on the deviation of those fines from the individuals?
LEITHEAD TODD: The Department is going to hold off on any fines in order to try and work
that out with you because what you are proposing does make the area safer and will address
some of the issues on the stability of Mahimahi Street.
Just for the Commission’s information, the applicant here who has mining experience on the
mainland is proposing to do some additional work outside of his property that would address
some of the actions of previous people who have mined in the area and destabilized one of the
roads and also left big pukas on some properties that they mined property that didn’t even belong
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to them. And he’s actually trying to propose kind of a global solution to the area, not only to do
his mining operation but to help Hawaiian Ocean View Estates Road Maintenance by making the
existing road that has been destablized safer. We’ll work with you.
CHAMBERLAIN: Okay.
WOODWARD: Yeah, I would suggest that you be in touch with the Planning Department
in that regard. Okay, Jeff.
DARROW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion before us is to continue this matter
until the applicant submits a report, and then it will be agendized on the next East side meeting.
With that I’ll take the roll. Commissioner Iwashita.
IWASHITA: Just a clarification on the motion. It may not be the very next meeting if
there’s insufficient time for -.
LEITHEAD TODD: The next meeting after we get the report.
DARROW: After the report is submitted.
IWASHITA: No, I understand that. But if the report is, you know, if the meeting is set
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for June 3 and the report is given on June 2 I don’t think that’s enough time for the -.
LEITHEAD TODD: We’re not going to set until we get the report.
IWASHITA: Right. But the way, I’m sorry, the way I understood the motion being
restated was that if we get the report that the matter would be set on the next Windward Planning
Commission agenda, and I think there should be some fudge area there if, you know, to give the
Department time to prepare the necessary conditions in writing and evaluate it. So the motion
should be that it will be, that the report is required; and that once the report is received then the
matter would be set by the Department, but not necessarily at the next scheduled meeting.
HAYASHI: Correct. It will have to meet the notice requirement, necessary time
requirement.
IWASHITA: Right, okay.
HAYASHI: Legal requirement.
IWASHITA: Sorry for being picky about the language but -. Okay, with that
understanding, that’s great.
DARROW: Okay, with that I’ll take the motion. Commissioner Iwashita?
IWASHITA: Yes.
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DARROW: Commissioner Domingo?
DOMINGO: Aye.
DARROW: Commissioner Ishibashi?
ISHIBASHI: Aye.
DARROW: Commissioner Ogata?
OGATA: Aye.
DARROW: And Mr. Chairman?
WOODWARD: Aye.
DARROW: The motion passes five to zero.
WOODWARD: All right, thank you, Gentlemen; and stay in touch with the Planning
Department about the issues; and once we get that soil report and they’ve had a chance to issue
recommendations, then we will get it back on the schedule.
CHAMBERLAIN: Thank you so much.
WOODWARD: Sure.
The discussion ended at 11:38 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary
Windward Planning Commission
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