HomeMy WebLinkAbout2009-05-01 TVOGEL
PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
MAY 1, 2009
RICHARD & CINDY VOGEL
A regularly advertised hearing on the application of
(SPP 09-77)
was called to order at 10:38 a.m. in the Aupuni Center Conference Room,
101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i with Chairman Rell Woodward presiding.
PRESENT: Rell Woodward
Takashi Domingo
Andrew Iwashita
Shelly Ogata
Wallace Ishibashi
Brandon Gonzalez, Deputy Corporation Counsel
BJ Leithead Todd, Planning Director
Norman Hayashi, Staff Planner
Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner
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And 8 people from the public in attendance
APPLICANTS: RICHARD & CINDY VOGEL (SPP 09-77)
Special Permit to allow the establishment of a 1-bedroom bed and breakfast establishment within
an existing 4-bedroom single family dwelling on 1-acre of land situated within the State Land
Use Agricultural District. The property is located at 13-3357 Hookupu Street, approximately
2,700 feet north of the Hookupu Street – Leilani Avenue intersection, Leilani Estates
Subdivision, Keahialaka, Puna, Hawaii, TMK:1-3-31:66.
WOODWARD: Agenda Item No. 4, Richard and Cindy Vogel, Special Permit Application
09-77, application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a 1-bedroom bed and
breakfast establishment within an existing 4-bedroom single family dwelling on 1-acre of land
within the State Land Use Agricultural District. Jeff.
DARROW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I can direct your attention to the power
point presentation. Our next application is a Special Permit to allow a 1-bedroom bed and
breakfast within an existing 4-bedroom dwelling. The applicants are Richard and Cindy Vogel.
The application is, or the request is located within the Puna district.More specifically we’re
looking at the Leilani Estates Subdivision. Pahoa would be located just north of the subdivision.
You would be traveling on the Kalapana-Kaimu Road to the entrance of the subdivision. The
actual property is located on the makai side of the subdivision or the lower subdivision identified
EXHIBIT B
with a black outline on Hookupu Street. They are requesting a 1-bedroom bed and breakfast
within an existing 4-bedroom dwelling that was constructed in 2006 on 1-acre of land.
This is an aerial photo that gives you a little overview of the surrounding properties, mainly you
can see it’s ohia forest. There is a dwelling located across the street and there are very few
dwellings surrounding this property.
Looking at the plot plan, if you were to enter into the property it would be coming from your left
side. The actual area where the 1-bedroom for the bed and breakfast is located is identified in
red. This is over a covered area. The actual main residence is in this location. There is a roof
that covers the majority of it and there’s an opened deck; and you’ll be able to see that in the
pictures. This is the driveway entrance from Hookupu Street. Hookupu is a paved 20-foot wide
road; and this is the actual residence. The open deck area is here and the 1-bedroom area for the
B&B is located in that particular area.
The Planning Department is recommending that the Planning Commission approve this special
permit application with conditions. Any questions?
WOODWARD: Commissioner Iwashita.
IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the background report there was no specific
reference to the various applicable provisions of the Puna Community Development Plan and,
specifically, I guess I’d like the Department or the Director to address couple of points in the
Puna Community Development Plan. The first is that in, I think it was at page 3-9, I guess
Section 3.2.2, Objectives, the only reference that I could find to bed and breakfast in the Puna
Community Development Plan was Item I under 3.2.2, which talks about to promote farm
businesses such as local food stores and “farm stay” bed and breakfasts. There’s no other
reference to bed and breakfast that I could find in the Puna Community Development Plan. I
guess my concern is that in the file we have a letter from the Office of Planning, the State Office
of Planning, pointing out that approval of this bed and breakfast operation would basically
discourage developing agricultural activity in Leilani Estates. And so given that and the Puna
Community Development Plan’s, basically as I see, limitation of bed and breakfast to “farm
stay” type of bed and breakfast, I’d like the staff or someone to address that point.
DARROW: Thank you, Commissioner Iwashita. You are correct in stating that the
Puna Community Development Plan is quiet in regards to overall use of bed and breakfasts
within the Puna district. They do mention it within the different town centers (regional town
center, community village center, and the neighborhood village center) as being other uses that
can be allowed within those centers. But outside of those centers within these subdivisions it’s
mainly quiet. It does request to promote or support the “farm stay” type bed and breakfast. On
these smaller type lots where agricultural activity is difficult based on the soil conditions and the
size of the lots, you know, in our criteria for review we look at whether or not these particular
applications or uses are going to affect the preservation of prime ag lands.
In this particular case we’re looking at “E” soil which is very poor.We’re looking at an area
that’s unclassified by the State of Hawai‘i Agricultural Lands of Importance; and this is
EXHIBIT B
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considered under the General Plan as a rural type area, which is more residential/agricultural in
nature.
This, again, looking at the plan, because it’s silent, it doesn’t give us very much, you know,
direction in regards to what the specific action would be for this particular area in Puna in
regards to bed and breakfasts. So our next step is, again, looking at the General Pan which does
encourage bed and breakfast by supporting the visitor industry and, also, allowing for people,
residents of Puna to be able to improve their quality of life and also their, it also allows for new
economic opportunities.
You know, when we looked at this specific use it’s a 1-bedroom bed and breakfast within an
existing 4-bedroom. The applicants I believe live there alone so they have several empty
bedrooms. They are looking at an opportunity to be able to increase their income, and this is a
good opportunity. In Leilani Estates at this time there are only 5 bed and breakfasts overall in
the 2,000 plus lot subdivision. So we don’t see this as a use that is going to be detrimental to the
preservation of agricultural lands. The actual land that is on this property can still be utilized for
agricultural activities as well.
IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Darrow. Couple of other points I’d like to be addressed is
that the Puna Community Development Plan, again, 3.2, Agriculture and Economic
Development, it’s on page 3-7, this is basically a discussion about preserving agriculture. And
one of the points raised is, you know, rising land costs -- especially with subdivisions within
subdivisions, I would add such as Leilani Estates, where residential dwellings are the principal
use -- make it difficult for new farmers to acquire land for viable agricultural operations. So, I
guess, you know, what we’re doing, well, I guess this sort of emphasizes the point made by the
Office of Planning. And that is that if we allow other nonagricultural uses in agriculturally
zoned lands that really has -- this one has no, you know, there’s no agricultural activity on this
property, it’s not being put out as an eco-tourism kind of thing -- there’s no associated
agricultural activity that this is tied to, then, you know, this obviously would have an effect in my
mind of increasing the value of this property. And then if I was a real estate agent I would say,
you know, once this approved, well, Leilani Estates can turn into a bed and breakfast
community. And the value of the properties would go up, and then basically raising the concern
raised by this point on 3.2, and that is, you know, authorizing other uses basically is going to
raise the cost of the land and make it more difficult for farmers to afford land, you know, to
people who want to farm. So part of my difficulty with this application is that although the Puna
Community Development Plan is mentioned once in the background report there is no reference
to any of these, in my mind, clearly applicable provisions. That’s why I’m trying to raise them
now.
WOODWARD: Commissioner Iwashita, if I might respectfully request that we delay this
till we get to the discussion phase. We haven’t yet heard from the applicant.
IWASHITA: Well, you know, I would like the Department or the Director to address
these concerns, you know, because it involves basically the background report. And before, you
know, I really don’t have issues with or, you know, questions of the applicant. I’m really
addressing this to the Department.
EXHIBIT B
3
And the other point is in the Puna CommunityDevelopment Plan, 3.2.1, Goals, all of the goals,
“a” through “g”, all talk about agricultural activities, and one reference to ecotourism. So, you
know, the Puna community has spoken in terms of what has already been -. You know, we talk
about the General Plan designation as agriculture and now we’re talking about are we going to
enforce that or not. Special Permit applications are supposed to be unusual kinds of activities.
Well, I would, I guess my concern is that approving this, you know, as an unusual activity
basically would submarine or torpedo many of the provisions here in the Community
Development Plan. So I’d like those addressed. I would have preferred that they had been
addressed in the background report, but we can discuss it now.
WOODWARD: Planning Director.
LEITHEAD TODD: Mr. Darrow, could you put the overhead up that shows the surrounding
property. Yeah, okay.
If you look at Chapter 205 of the Hawai‘i Revised Statutes it recognizes that when they did land
use classification and moved or classified a lot of properties as agriculture, it didn’t necessarily
meant that the property was suitable for agriculture. It frequently meant that it was the catch-all
classification where land got put into. It didn’t necessarily mean that it was good agricultural
land. It didn’t necessarily mean that it was actually being used for agriculture. My
understanding is this is a pre-1976 subdivision.
DARROW: Correct, it was approved on February 15, 1960.
LEITHEAD TODD: Okay. So it is one of those subdivisions where they have a right to build a
single family residence as opposed to coming in with a farm dwelling. So they have a legal right
to build single family. If you can look at the surrounding property what you have is ohia. And
there has been in the past mixed signals, I think. On the one hand the Puna community would
like to support agriculture. On the other hand they also want to try and protect the native forest
that is in the lower Puna area. And so where you have a property here where they have not clear-
cut it from property line to property line it’s actually something that is supported by the
community. You have an existing single-family residence which is legally permitted, you have
property that is not very good for agriculture based on its soil.
To me when you’re looking at a special permit you’re looking at whether it’s an unusual or
reasonable use of the property, and you’re also recognizing that some of the property that’s
classified agriculture is not suitable for agricultural production. I think given its location and the
fact that it’s an existing house and it’s one room in this house, that it certainly fits within the
parameters of a special permit application. It also fits into some of the visions for Puna, which is
that rather than having people have to commute all the way into Hilo for job opportunities that
there would be more sustainable job opportunities within the Puna area. This allows this family
to derive some income from their property which is otherwise not available to them. And I think
that in that sense it does fit in with what the vision for Puna is. Thank you.
EXHIBIT B
4
WOODWARD:Thank you. I have one question. It says here that there will be parking
provided. Of course, it would be for only one car I assume. But I am not able to tell on this site
plan where the parking for the guests would be. Maybe I’m just overlooking it.
DARROW: There’s an overall site plan that was submitted, Mr. Chairman. And I
don’t think it’s identified by an exhibit. It’s just before the plot plan for the house. Maybe what
we can do is ask the applicant specifically where they’re going to be using the parking. But we
had conducted a site inspection of the area, and there’s ample room for parking on the property.
WOODWARD: All right, very good. Any other questions before we call the applicant?
Okay, seeing none, if we could have the applicants come to the table. And first I’ll need to swear
you in. If you’ll raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth today before the
Windward Planning Commission?
C. VOGEL: I do.
R. VOGEL: I do.
WOODWARD: Okay. Now if you’ll give us your name and address, and then you’re free
to begin your testimony.
C. VOGEL: Thank you. Cindy Vogel, 13-3357 Ho‘okupu Street.
R. VOGEL: Richard Vogel, same address.
WOODWARD: Okay.
C. VOGEL: Thank you for the opportunity. We have nothing to add other than I can
address your parking concerns if you’d like.
WOODWARD: Okay.
C. VOGEL: May I approach so I can point it out on the -?
WOODWARD: Sure.
C. VOGEL: Thank you.
LEITHEAD TODD: Is there one prior to that, Jeff?
C. VOGEL: No, I -.
LEITHEAD TODD: Okay.
C. VOGEL: I should be able to point it out right there. You can see the stairs leading
up to the front deck?
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5
WOODWARD: Right.
C. VOGEL: They would be entering the property from this left side here. There’s a
driveway, and this area right here is designated for parking. We have solar lights that will come
on in the evening to provide light.
WOODWARD: Okay, very good.
C. VOGEL: Thank you.
WOODWARD: Anything else?
C. VOGEL: No, I have nothing else to add. Any further questions?
WOODWARD: Okay. Any questions? All right, seeing none you may be seated.
C. VOGEL: Thank you.
WOODWARD: Thank you. All right, I guess we’re ready to entertain a motion.
IWASHITA: Mr. Chair?
WOODWARD: Yes.
IWASHITA: I have an additional question for staff actually. Are there any other B&Bs
in Leilani Estates?
DARROW: Yes. There are five other B&Bs.
IWASHITA: There are?
DARROW: Yes.
IWASHITA: And how long ago were the done or -?
DARROW: A majority of them were approved in 1990, four of them; and then there
was one approved in 1999.
IWASHITA: Thank you. Are they all 1-bedroom ones or -?
DARROW: There are several 2-bedroom and several 3-bedroom, and one 1-bedroom.
IWASHITA: Thank you.
WOODWARD: Commissioner Domingo.
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DOMINGO:Mr. Chairman, just one question. Are these parcels all prior to the
adoption of a General Plan, pre-General Plan era?
DARROW: The actual subdivision?
DOMINGO: Yes.
DARROW: Yes. This was in 1960.
DOMINGO: I think -. Mr. Chairman, if I may?
WOODWARD: Yes, sir.
DOMINGO: You know, if we look back in history, it’s a notable issue. In fact there
was a book written about this very issue, and I think it’s titled “LAND AND POWER,” and how
it all came about where there were no regulations, restrictions, or requirements as to what you
can and you cannot do. And that’s why there are so many vacant lands in Puna; and they’re all
zoned agricultural parcels but today are being used for residential uses. And I guess when you
consider the zoning, you know, soil contents and its value has to be noted, streets and water as
we have provided for, all these were absent at that time; and we find similar situations
throughout the entire island. And I can think of Kamuela, on the slopes of Kamuela, where you
have a huge, I call it huge residential parcels zoned agriculture but with people living on it.
And I think the problem here is that when we think and we insist and look at agricultural zoned
lands, not all of those lands are suitable for any agricultural pursuits. But I’ve heard a lot of
comments from my colleague before that, you know, you can have a dry arid, poor soil property
and still do agriculture; and that’s true because there are many methods in which you can do
those things, hydroponics, and hot houses, and all of those that are taken into consideration. But
I think when we look at all of these smaller agricultural parcels with residences on it -- and here
in this particular case we’re finding an individual with one house on their single property
wanting to establish a bed and breakfast, you know, and in their own description it’s to help with
the economic situation -- and I think when we look at the use being unusual but reasonable as
described in HRS 205, then this falls within that category. And I have no problem in approving
any application with regards to bed and breakfasts as long as they fall within this premise as
described in HRS 205.
WOODWARD: Very good. Let me do one thing I forgot to do. If we could have
Ms. Vogel come back up for a second. I just want to make sure that you’ve had a chance to
review the recommendations of the Planning Department and the conditions, and those are
acceptable to you.
C. VOGEL: Yes, we have. Yes, we are.
WOODWARD: Okay, thank you very much. You may be seated. All right, now, further
discussion.
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IWASHITA: Mr. Chair?
WOODWARD: Yes, sir.
IWASHITA: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. The information about the five prior approvals
for bed and breakfasts in this subdivision from almost couple decades ago now, I think, goes to
the point about whether or not this is really an unusual use of this property, of the land. And,
you know, I guess Leilani is a relatively more developed subdivision than some of the other
substandard subdivisions in the Puna area. There are quite a number of houses actually down
there, and it’s one of the more desirable, I guess, locations in the Puna area with it being on the
slope down there.
The concern, again, I really have is that -. You know, the Puna Community Development Plan
has addressed the points that we’re talking about. I don’t think we can, you know, the law is the
Puna Community Development Plan is the law. And so now when we’re talking about basically
reasoning our way around those sections that, in my mind, are applicable -- and no one has cited
any other provisions that, you know, really state to the contrary -- the specific goals, the policies,
all of those things really, you know, none of those things support the approval of this application.
That’s my difficulty now. And, you know, the fact that the only specific authority in the Puna
Community Development Plan for bed and breakfasts are for those which are associated with
agricultural activity -- you know, that’s what it says -- the fact that it’s silent as to others in the
various substandard subdivisions in the Puna area, is not, that’s not evidence that there should be
more bed and breakfasts there.
So, you know, my sense right now is that because the Puna Community Development Plan is the
law, and because all the policies and goals and implementation provisions of the Puna
Community Development Plan do not support and, in fact, arguably speak against allowing this
special permit application for a bed and breakfast that, you know, my sense is that relying on
that, it really is not an unusual, or can’t be reasonable if it’s contrary to the Puna Community
Development Plan.
The other concern that I have is -. I know that the action committee for the Puna Community
Development Plan has not been appointed. It’s there but the Mayor hasn’t appointed the people
to populate it, and that to me is problematical again because, you know, it would be nice to have
perhaps some input from the action committee about yeah, well, this one is okay. So those are
my concerns. I am, you know, again, because of that, I am really uncertain whether I should
support this or not. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
WOODWARD: Thank you. Any other comments? Are we ready to entertain a motion
then? Commissioner Domingo.
DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. With regards to the application
submitted by Richard and Cindy Vogel, Special Permit No. 09-77, I move for its approval based
on the recommendation of the Planning Director and the contents therein with regards to the
requirements.
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OGATA: Second.
WOODWARD: All right, it has been moved and seconded. Discussion? I guess not. All
right, Jeff, let’s take a vote.
DARROW: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion before us is to approve. With that
I’ll take the vote. Commissioner Domingo?
DOMINGO: Aye.
DARROW: Commissioner Ogata?
OGATA: Aye.
DARROW: Commissioner Ishibashi?
ISHIBASHI: Aye.
DARROW: Commissioner Iwashita?
IWASHITA: No.
DARROW: And Mr. Chairman?
WOODWARD: Aye.
DARROW: The motion passes four to one.
WOODWARD: Thank you. You’ll be notified in writing.
The discussion ended at 11:06 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary
Windward Planning Commission
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