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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022-12-12 Police Commission Regular Minutes HAWAI`I POLICE COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES DECEMBER 12, 2022 HAWAFI COUNTY BUILDING, COUNCIL CHAMBERS 25 AUPUNI ST., SUITE 1401, HILO, HI CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL Vice Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 9:04 a.m. Present: Thomas Brown, Vice Chair Dylan Andrion, Commissioner Pudding Lassiter, Commissioner Donna Springer, Commissioner Anthony Sur, Commissioner Denby Toci, Commissioner (arrived at 9:28 a.m.) Via Zoom: John Bertsch, Chair Rick Robinson, Commissioner Rod Quartararo, Commissioner A quorum was present. Also present: Dakota Frenz, Deputy Corporation Counsel Charisse Correa, Secretary STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (Summarized) • Thomas Fratinardo came before the commission to speak on the next police chief. He requests that the new police chief does whatever study and research they need to do and spend whatever money they need to spend to prevent any more police officers from murdering their wives in Hawaii County. Hawaii County is the only county in the State of Hawaii where we have police officers who have murdered their wives and he explained that he has intimate experience with the subject. He stated there have been many steps that the department has taken since then to evaluate and assist officers with programs such as EAP and peer support, but they need to take any power and experience that they may have either on the local or federal level to mitigate this problem and prevent this from happening again. He expressed there are steps the department could take, such as educating the lower rank and file, such as sergeants and lieutenants and insist that they attend training. He said to think outside of the box, these are murders. It's unfortunate, it's avoidable, and in his opinion, it's an epidemic, it shouldn't be happening. He stated that his hope is that Edwin Rapozo (he meant Edward Ignacio) is appointed police chief and he chooses Sherry Bird as deputy or vice versa because they both have an ocean's worth of knowledge in dealing with this sort of crime. Police officers and their families are considered police ohana. He asks that the new police chief mount the names of the victims on the police memorial because they were murdered by police officers or have a separate memorial on police grounds. • Stanley Aoki came before the commission to speak on the next police chief. He stated that Kenneth Mathison murdered his wife and was abusive. Currently, the police are Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 2 getting much better, but he feels there's corruption. He stated he was beaten up by an officer in 2015 or 2016, he went before the Police Commission and they did nothing about it and recently he had a confrontation with his neighbor. The officers came, but they sided with his neighbor and he had to go to jail. He was in the psych ward two or three times and went to jail in June or July of this year for two or three days. He feels we need someone who will investigate these crimes more thoroughly. He feels Ben Moszkowicz would make a good police chief. • John Erickson came before the commission. He stated that if they don't speak out against the government, God will hold them accountable. He took an oath in the Navy to serve the Constitution from all invaders; foreign and domestic and he believes there are domestic intruders into their rights, privileges, and way of life. He stated we need aloha and understanding. He stated the police could help round up people that need to be taken out of society and if the jails are overcrowded, they can put them in tents with carpet runners and grow vegetables with the county's help. He spoke about the increase in numerous medical health issues in the US after COVID-19 vaccines were administered. He suggested that the commission should ask the police chief candidates where they get their news source from, you can tell a lot about a person by their news source. He further noted the next police chief should be a scholar of the Constitution and an independent thinker. • Lucille Chung came before the commission to show her support for Edward Ignacio. She served with the Police Department for 33 years in Laupahoehoe and had the privilege of working with his dad and uncle, who were both police officers. She watched him from the womb to when he graduated from high school, became a police officer himself, and went on to become part of the FBI. She is proud to see him from Laupahoehoe elevate himself to this position in his life. She feels that every one of these candidates appears to be worthy of this position and is excellent in their candidacy, but she's here to support Mr. Ignacio. • Chris Hirose came before the commission. He asked that the next police chief support and defend the Constitution of the United States. The ruling class has committed multilevel crimes against citizens, such as mandating a vaccine. He stated that people were killed or had gotten sick with the vaccine, but fewer people have gotten sick from COVID-19. He asked that the department hires back people that have quit due to the vaccine mandates. He wants to warn the new police chief of a big crime wave that will come with the planned collapse of the economy. There would be food and energy shortages and a collapse of the US dollar. • Darryl Perry came before the commission. He stated that he would highly recommend that the new police chief take these matters seriously, in regard to the department's core values and mission statement, and come up with a plan to instill these values within the department because it doesn't come naturally. If the chief doesn't promote Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 3 this, it's just words on paper. He would ask the police chief to consider crime prevention. When we talk about the criminal justice system, we normally speak about the police, prosecutors, the judiciary, and the court system. There's one area that we should be very cognizant of and that's crime prevention and youth programs to stop the recidivism of these criminals from reoffending repeatedly. We can do this by nipping it in the bud and starting programs with juveniles and children that will instill within them a sense of responsibility, fairness, and justice for all. • Roger Christie came before the commission. He stated every day brings new solid evidence leading to proof of a meticulous plan that lead to a "plandemic" of COVID-19 and to the intended and ongoing horrible results. It looks bad for those who designed it, supported it, and were and are complicit in it. He stated we need a new police chief who sees what most people can't see or won't admit. He was trained at US Army Spy School as an intelligence analyst in 1970 and 1971. He got inside information that there was a US government plan called project MK Naomi, which turned out to be the AIDS virus, an ethno-specific biological weapon, funded in 1969, by the Department of Defense in US Congress. Sadly, it has morphed into COVID. Dr. Fauci was involved with the AIDS virus in a very nefarious way and involved with COVID in a nefarious way. He stated we want, need, and deserve a new police chief who gets it. Someone who clearly sees and understands the monstrous plan and one who is willing to stand up, speak up and take effective action to neutralize it or else the Constitution and Bill of Rights each chief swears to uphold will become null and void. We need a chief who respects medical privacy, and religious exemptions and will object to digital vaccine passports. He referred to documents he handed out to the commission regarding Event 201 and the Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates. • Kalei Kailikini came before the commission she agrees with Mr. Christie and she recommends that every one of us carries a responsibility and researches the subject matter. She stated that the Oath of Office is very important and sacred. The candidate that becomes the police chief should know the Constitution and should be able to recite the preamble. It is a contract between the police chief, elected officials, and citizens. The US Constitution and the State of Hawaii Constitution are the absolute supreme law of the land. Would these candidates be able to distinguish how important these Constitutions are and can they prioritize the Constitutions with county ordinances, regulations, codes, or Hawaii State Revised Statutes? • Patti Cook provided testimony via zoom. She stated that she is in support of Major Sherry Bird. She stated that Ms. Bird was their Waimea Captain for many years, she was a team builder, and a collaborative problem solver with the community, her door was open and she was willing to be very transparent about what was happening. Ms. Bird demonstrated integrity, knowledge, and strength of character, and she believes she will be an excellent police chief. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 4 • Moses Kaoiwi Jr., retired Brigadier General, US National Guard provided testimony via zoom. He stated that he is a former police detective with the Hawaii County Police Department and he has worked with three candidates in the past. He stated that he supports Edward Ignacio for this position and submitted written testimony in support of him. • George Applegate came before the commission to support his son, Paul Applegate for the position. He spoke about their humble upbringing and struggles. He spoke on the character and integrity of Mr. Applegate and shared that he was always motivated to learn and expressed that he is self-motivated. He is compassionate and has the leadership skills needed for the position. He feels this is a good opportunity and stated that it's not about winning, it's about using that platform to do something worthwhile. • Mark Arnold came before the commission. He stated that he is a police officer for the Hawaii County Police Department and has been employed there for 24 '/z years. He's also on the SHOPO State Board as a director at large. He stated that SHOPO will not be endorsing any of the candidates. However, they endorse the list and they want to give the commission kudos for all the work they have done in selecting the four best candidates that he feels they couldn't find anywhere else. As a police officer, he will endorse one of the candidates. He knows 3 of the four and they're all good. The one that stands out to him above all is Paul Applegate from Kauai. He stated that Applegate has done nothing in his career but good things, built bridges and works well with his employees and staff. He truly understands the importance of his employees and their rights. He was part of the union and worked in internal affairs, so he has the main idea of what it takes to run a department and understands employees' rights. He explained that currently on the Big Island, they have the highest number of active grievances in the State, even in Honolulu. This is a result of mismanagement. With a leader like Paul Applegate, he believes he's the type of leader they could negotiate with and resolve the issues instead of being tied up in costly grievances. It could be readily addressed and would be beneficial to both sides. • Kevin Hill came before the commission. He stated that the next chief needs to be incorruptible, loyal to the real law, and answerable to the people. He realized as he walked away from his last testimony at the last meeting that what he was actually asking for was a lawfully elected sheriff that was elected by the people and accountable to the people. He's grateful for the Police Commission because this is the closest he gets to that. He's here to say that his prayer is that the police answer to the people and that they know the law. He feels anybody who is in a position to enforce the law should memorize at least the first 12 amendments to the Constitution and should know it inside and out. • Kimberly Hill came before the commission. She stated that she believes that the new police chief needs to be awake to the truth of what's happening. We have heard the Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 5 testimonies, there's a lot of truth to back up the murder that is happening across our world with the vaccinations, it's not a conspiracy. We need a police chief who is truly awake to real people and private media sites where the truth is being spoken. No police chief can act if they don't have the truth. The chief also needs to be willing to act on it because the next phase that we're going into will be worse than the last phase. She stated children are being targeted, they are now being sterile. The number of cases of deaths and other things that are happening, it's literally taking out the human race and we're all just going along with it. The police are there to enforce the people that are propagating this murder and the false things that are happening. We need someone who is in the know, willing to see the truth, and willing to act on it. The police chief is the only one who would be standing in the way of our corrupt government. We also need a police chief who will allow the people the right to carry arms. We also need a police chief who will not be bought out because of money and threats to their family. • James O'Connor came before the commission. He stated all four applicants don't jump off the paper to him. He explained that he has 28 '/z years of experience in the Hawaii Police Department. The three things you need to be an effective chief from day one are time in administration, internal affairs, and/or CALEA. When you're the police chief, you're not doing the work, you're not out there taking cases, you're the manager of people. You need administrative experience; internal affairs, working with the union, discipline, CALEA getting the department accredited, and all the different policies and procedures. When he looks at the candidates, they don't have that experience. The former Chiefs; Lawrence Mahuna, Harry Kubojiri, and Paul Ferreira, all had that experience. He's not saying that any of these four applicants can't be a good chief in time. One thing that Honolulu should've taught everyone is when you bring in a chief that doesn't have that experience, you have some issues and they put people in places that shouldn't be there as well, they promote people to be deputy chiefs that probably shouldn't have been there. He stated that he knows the four candidates personally and professionally and he's speaking from his professional experience. He stated there are two issues with the police department right now. The first one is training. He explained that he's not talking about recruit class training, Sergeant Pagan and his staff does a great job getting recruits prepared. He's talking about the training of officers already in the department. He stated that the department doesn't do a good job at that at all and a lot of that is on administration. He believes that the patrol men in this department feel that hard work doesn't mean anything because when you get promoted, it's about seniority. How do you change that? You need a new chief to come in and say it's not about seniority anymore, you'll get points for seniority on the test, but after that, everybody should be equal. He feels Paul Applegate could be the best chief for this department moving forward. Recess was called at 10:15 a.m. the meeting reconvened at 10:25 a.m. EXECUTIVE SESSION Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 6 Chair Bertsch motioned to meet in executive session for the purpose to ratify interview questions for the candidates and to consult with the board's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5 (a)(4). Commissioner Robinson seconded, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously. Executive session convened at 10:30 a.m. Motion to reconvene open session made by Commissioner Lassiter, seconded by Commissioner Toci, with no discussion and it carried unanimously. Regular session reconvened at 11:24 a.m. Recess was called at 11:25 a.m. the meeting reconvened at 11:34 a.m. STATEMENT FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (Summarized) • Leah Burns came before the commission and requested to give public testimony. She stated she is currently homeless and explained her past and present living conditions and personal issues. She further expressed her frustrations and alleges she is harassed by the community and police. STATEMENT FROM THE CHAIR Chair Bertsch congratulated all four finalists and stated that he will be recusing himself from the chief's selection process moving forward. He explained that the basis of this decision stems from his close friendship and association with Edward Ignacio. As disclosed to the commission, he recused himself once Mr. Ignacio was associated with his application number and his identity was exposed. He further explained their long-term friendship known to many within the community. Mr. Ignacio lived in his house when he was assigned back to the Big Island while still employed by the Bureau. They traveled together, spent holidays, golfed, and worked various events together. Mr. Ignacio also worked with him closely during this year's IRONMAN event. He stated that he has no reservations that he could act in an impartial way during this selection process. It would be unfair to all the applicants (including Mr. Ignacio) that this relationship may be perceived to affect the final outcome of the selection process. For this, he conflicts out. He wished everyone the best of luck and turned the meeting back over to Vice Chair Brown. UNFINISHED BUSINESS • Selection process for the next Police Chief for the County of Hawaii: All four finalists came before the commission. Vice Chair Brown stated that the commission came up with several interview questions and so did the public, which they narrowed down. He explained that he will pose a question, and going down the line all candidates will be asked the same question. Each candidate will be given three minutes to provide an answer, there may or may not be follow-up questions. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 7 • Vice Chair Brown started with the first question, which came from the public. He stated people within the county and in the public have said they had trouble receiving returned calls and information from appointed and elected officials. Will you return messages from people who are asking them to honor your oath of office? ➢ Sherry Bird stated as far as returning replies to community members, she is a responsive type of person. If someone reached out to her, she would be responsive. She likes to be present, approachable, and engage in a two-way conversation. She might not know the answer right away, but she's not afraid to go and research and find what the answer is and get back to the person. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated it's interesting listening to the testifiers and the one underlying current through most of the testimony that he's heard is the need for the next chief of this department to be a collaborator, someone who's a communicator and someone who can bring people together and share ideas. He would expect his administration and himself to be available all the time. He has gone back to college, got his master's degree, and is studying for his Ph.D. One of the things that he learned from his professors is having office hours. Whether it's himself as the chief, the deputy chief, or an assistant chief, there's an opportunity to set up an office hour type situation. You wouldn't have to wait for him to call back. They could visit at a specific time and have a conversation about whatever the issues are. That concept and mind frame builds collaborative partnerships and goes a long way towards transparency. Command levels and supervisors at all levels in the department need to be accountable and responsive to the public. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he's a Big Island boy and grew up here. Ohana, village, everyone, it's about communication, and if you lose touch with everyone meaning the general public and everyone around you, including internally and externally of the department you get a question like that. He feels it's important to be responsive. He believes there are systems that need to be put in place so that you can keep in touch with the people around you, whether it be himself as the chief directly or as a deputy or the chief's office in general. There are office hours, you could even go as far as establishing a liaison officer or person, through this office, you use that to communicate with the general public and address questions that may come up. When you don't have communication, it makes people think there's no transparency and perception goes out the window. In these days and times, we must ensure that we're connected to the community. To answer the question, he stated yes, he would be responsive or someone within the office, such as the deputy, but he will try to do it himself. He thinks it's important that as the face of the department, you're the one out there answering the questions. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 8 ➢ Paul Applegate stated in his experience and under his leadership, we would make sure someone gets back to a question. It'll be him or he would delegate it. After assigning someone to get in touch with that person, he would request communication back showing it's completed and the results of that communication. He stated the follow-up is important. If he had to be the one to make the call, he would, if it's someone else, he would make sure the assignment is completed and the requestor is satisfied with the results that they received and if not, let's move up the chain and get the result that is fitting and appropriate. • Vice Chair Brown stated the following questions would be from the commission. He asked what is your definition of defunding? ➢ Edward Ignacio asked for clarification on the question. Vice Chair Brown stated defunding the police department. Mr. Ignacio stated it's about looking at what resources we have, and where our money is going. Is it efficiently being used? He doesn't believe in the word "defunding" he believes everyone just wants accountability. Accountability is not just fiscally, it's everything else that goes around with it. The department should look at what they're doing with their money, how they're spending their money, are they addressing the proper threats in the community, are we being responsive to what the community wants. He stated that he believes that is how we can deal with the defunding issue. ➢ Paul Applegate stated when he sees this question being asked, he sees bright lights that say "a decrease in public trust" this would be the only reason why this issue would come up. Public trust has been broken and the public feels that let's take some money away and put it towards other services to accomplish similar functions. If chosen as chief, he plans to immediately conduct an independent audit of the department. This would be a comprehensive, independent audit to identify where they are, where funding is going, what it's being spent on, what resources we have deployed, what training we need, and what training we have, and use this information to conduct a three-year strategic plan. That would be open and transparent, so the department and the public know where we are headed as an organization and what goals we have. This question comes up when you have a lack of public trust. ➢ Sherry Bird stated her definition or understanding of defunding of police is the public losing trust in the police department and seeking to move funds from the police department to other agencies. It may be appropriate in some circumstances. If she were to be selected as chief, she would look at every position to see if they're allocating their resources appropriately and are there things that can be addressed by other agencies. That's where our county Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 9 partnerships with our partner agencies and organizations come in. Looking at the big picture for funding of the police department; are they using their funds responsibly, efficiently, and effectively? Along those lines, building back up that trust from the community of our police department. Our police department does a really good job, but there are definitely things we can seek to improve upon. If we were defunded in any way getting some money back, so we can put it back into the police department. As mentioned earlier, there are areas of training that we could improve upon and that would be something that would be her priority, to increase training. If another agency or organization can perform the same tasks and take them off the police department's hands, so they could focus on other things then she would be in support of that. Commissioner Toci asked Sherry Bird if she feels senior officers need training and not just new recruits. Ms. Bird stated everyone could use refreshers and annual training. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated the job that they all took about 20 years ago as police officers have changed, it's not the same. When you bring up the issue of defunding, the issue of defunding, the idea of accountability is there and the need to be transparent and budgeting and how we're spending our resources. The other side to this equation is, we as law enforcement do a poor job at selling ourselves, and at sharing with the community what it is we do. If you take a naysayer and you bring them on a ride-along, not only are they excited and they want to do it again, but you change their opinion. That's because they've gotten an opportunity to see what police officers really do. When you call 911 it's not because you're having a wonderful day. The people that don't get it are the people who are often in control of the narrative. Folks in the media a lot of time don't get it, some do, but if you check with those that do, they probably have a family member or have taken it upon themselves to interact with police officers and find out what the department is doing. For him the biggest controllable there is the ability to be very thoroughly communicative and to open up opportunities for the public to interact with the police. Public forums and office hours are great, but just taking people who are helping to control the public narrative like the media and inviting them specifically to a training, to show them specifically the day in the life. You will most likely win a whole group of new supporters who will then help to mold the public's opinion into a better more accurate perception of what the department is actually doing. At the same time, taking a fiscally accountable accounting, audit-type standpoint is also important. You have to make sure that you're transparently spending the public's money on what it is that they need. • Vice Chair Brown stated the Hawaii Police Department has been under the administration of Police Chief Paul Ferreira, do you see a need to implement Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 10 change or keep it as the status quo? If changed, what would be the top three needs to address? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated as someone who comes from outside the department, he thinks the very first thing he would do to address this question is to take an examination of the culture and see if it's effective. Aside from that, the other two issues that need to be addressed is the staffing. Staffing, especially in patrol assignments is an anchor and it's keeping the ship from moving forward. Staffing needs to be increased. There are a lot of ways to do this, you could take 18-year-old locals right out of high school, and bring them on board the department as paid employees. As contract employees they work two or three years, they're background checked, they're familiar with the culture, they buy into the organization, and when they turn 21, congratulations here's your key to the rest of your career, you got three years under your belt towards retirement. Another thing they could use effectively is technology. They need to figure out how to use technology more effectively to increase officer safety and make the job of the officers on the road be able to be completed more efficiently and effectively and that helps with staffing as well. All these issues are tied in together. Not to hedge the "change everything" or "new direction everything", but he feels it's very important to develop a snapshot of the culture and find the best parts of that culture in moving forward in these other directions. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated it begins with culture. If you do not change the culture, no matter what you try and change it'll be hard to be accepted. How do you do that? Part of what you do when trying to change a culture is provide good leadership. Leadership is what drives your culture. The guys beneath you, from the top to the bottom, they want to see a leader that inspires them and pushes them to do what is right. They want consistency. It also comes down to training. We need to train everyone, top to bottom. Just because you're promoted to sergeant, doesn't mean you know how to be a sergeant. You have to learn your job. How do you learn your job? By your lieutenants and captains. It's a constantly developing scene, you need to be flexible and look with the times. Modernization is part of it. How do you modernize the department? Part of that is modernizing how your leaders are trained and how they work with their subordinates. The third part of that comes down to equipment. Things as simple as uniforms. Some guys have sore backs because of the belts. We're stuck in the past and we need to look forward. If we look forward, that will change the culture. Changing the culture, and improving leadership, training, and equipment, are the things he would immediately try to address. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he wanted to thank Chief Ferreira for his years and service and for what he gave to the department and the community. His three Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 11 things right off the bat are recruitment and retention, the fentanyl crisis, and negative public perception. In regards to recruitment and retention, he would regularly schedule a recruit class on the west side. There are applicants on that side who may have trouble spending the whole week in Hilo and driving back out on the weekends. In regards to the shortage of dispatchers, he would get them the first responder designation. They're the first ones that are called, they help deliver babies on the phone, they give instructions for CPR over the phone, and they are in respect first responders. With that designation, there would be a salary increase and recognition that would help in recruitment and retention. He would have dispatchers attend career fairs to help recruit because they can best describe what they do. For officer retention, when you have officers that are eligible to retire, we want to keep them as long as possible, so he would look into a $500 a month retention bonus for at least six months while they have succession planning with that position. Regarding negative public perception, they need to have instant dissemination of pertinent information to the public using the existing software that the department uses but have it manned 24 hours a day. ➢ Sherry Bird thanked Chief Ferreira for his leadership and stated changes that the department could make would include recruitment and retention, patrol operations are hurting. They are about 70 sworn officers short, which creates a big impact on patrol operations. A lot of the patrol districts are already working 12-hour shifts, which is an everyday occurrence. Much like Mr. Applegate had said, as far as retention goes, speaking to those who are reaching that retirement time period and seeing what their plans are and get a gauge on how long they plan on staying and see if they can entice them to stay a little longer and explore the idea of retention bonuses with the county if that's possible. As far as recruitment, she would like to rebrand the police department. If you look at the applicant pool or those who are interested in becoming potential police officers, what is it that they want on a personal level? She helped raise three of her nieces who are now adults. Two of them are going to college, in the medical field. It was either law enforcement or the medical field. She asked them why they want to pursue this angle and both of them said they want to be of service, to be able to help people. She thinks this speaks to the generation of people that the department could attract, those who want to be of service to people. So why don't we promote what we do already as police officers? We do it, we are of service to people, and we help people, so why don't we showcase that in our recruitment strategies? The other thing is modernizing the police department. If the pandemic taught us anything, it's technology. How can we use technology, modernize our police department, and use it to our advantage? Social media, we're on social media. Pushing those messages out, technology, wellness apps for our officers, everyone has a phone, let's get something that we can put on the phone for the officers to help in their time of need. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 12 • Vice Chair Brown stated following the guidelines of CALEA has improved the department. Please explain yes or no and explain why. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he believes that CALEA accreditation plays a major role in the improvement of the police department. with first-hand knowledge at the department he's at right now. They have been through accreditation and re-accreditation. It sets the absolute minimum standards that have to be met. If you leave it up to a department to decide what is a priority, you run into the internal or external politics of what is important, but if you have a national standard of what is important, these are the minimum standards that have to be met in each field, in each category of training, communications, report writing, and you have to give proofs showing how you accomplished this and showing you actually did it as a department. That is a large role in setting the base standard and from there, we can go to a higher standard, but that's the bare minimum of what should be done and in this case of training especially, it would be very helpful to use that and stick with CALEA. ➢ Sherry Bird stated that the CALEA process does improve our department. It holds us to nationally recognized law enforcement standards and ultimately it holds us accountable. If we say we're doing something, we have to make sure we're doing it. Part of the process is that we have to provide proof that we're doing what we said we were going to do. The accreditation process that we go through is like a gold star in policing. It shows that we're professional and we hold ourselves accountable. It serves a great purpose to improve our department. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that accreditation is something that is essential. He comes from a department that has been accredited by CALEA for over a decade. He's been through multiple accreditations and the way their department does it is a one-point person or a team who farms out these proofs to different divisions. He had a chance to work on lots of different proofs. It forces the department to remain accountable. It also does help the department in the case of a civil lawsuit. The claim would be difficult to prove that your department was unable to provide the policy guidance if the CALEA accreditation requires you to have that policy guidance. The other main benefit of accreditation is that it helps law enforcement nationwide to capitalize on this concept of best practices. One of the things that he learned by attending the FBI National Academy this past spring with 255 police officers from around the world is that while we may speak different languages or work in different states, we all basically have the same challenges. We have the same opportunities for success, we have the same issues, we wear different uniforms and have different rules, but essentially it boils down to what works here may very well work somewhere else. Having that Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 13 opportunity to collaborate with that group of similarly situated about to be chief-level officers within their departments around the world, is absolutely a huge benefit. He applauds the commission for choosing folks with that in their background. He was recently able to graduate with a master's degree in law enforcement and public safety leadership from the University of San Diego and again, to the point of technology, he's never stepped foot on campus, everything was done remotely. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that his fellow candidates pretty much covered everything he would say. Accreditation sets the bar. You always want to strive to have your department be the best. It puts you in that position where you can look at your peers and other places around the country and provide that baseline or "measuring stick" on everything; training, consistency in everything you do, and accountability. All that is covered with CALEA and it makes you a better department. He wants to stress upon best practices. He hasn't worked on CALEA because he was with the FBI for the past 20- something years, but he was part of an inspection team. They would go to all the different divisions, it's a team of guys who will be the next executive leaders in the FBI, they go through everything in their division, and they identify issues that could be fixed. The FBI has a consistent "measuring stick" so we all have to have that level of consistency, so we're all on the same page. The big thing that they do is identify best practices. There are things on this island that he's seen, Area I may do something different from Area II and they may not even know that. You need to have this consistent message across the way. • Vice Chair Brown asked how would you increase the recruitment and retention of our police dispatch operators? ➢ Sherry Bird stated they really need to talk with the dispatchers. It's a different position than being out in the field and out in the community. You're stuck at the desk, at a computer taking calls. The mental strength that they have to have to work in that kind of that position. You get the call, dispatch call, and not knowing the outcome could be worrisome. Talking with the dispatchers, finding out what it is that they enjoy about their positions, what they don't enjoy about their positions, how can we work to improve that, how can we use those dispatchers to be recruiters, not as an assignment, but used to recruit others out in the community. Tell their story, use social media platforms to reach out to groups that might be interested. There might be people interested in the police profession, but doesn't necessarily want to be a police officer. How can we attract that group as well? Retention, much like the police officers, can we put some fresh paint in the office to make it brighter? Can we do things like that to help make them feel more comfortable in the setting that they're in? Making sure they feel valued in their position so they don't want to leave us. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 14 Much like the police officers, if we're having dispatchers approaching that retirement age and we don't want to lose them, can we look at the possibility of retention bonuses for them? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated they kind of went through a rebranding of their own in Honolulu with their dispatchers. They used to refer to them as dispatchers. Some dispatchers felt kind of apart from the rest of the department operationally. They preferred the title Police Communication Officer. It allowed them to go through their job description, refresh that, create new positions, and rebranded them. With the increase in job responsibilities, their pay was slightly altered to align with the duties that they were actually doing. He has experience with this and would consider bringing it over here if that's an issue. It's important to look at police communications officers the same way you look at police officers. They're doing different parts of the job, but doing the same job. It's important that they train together and communicate well. We need to remember that officers are not the only ones who experience traumatic incidents. Talking to someone on the phone who's experiencing an emergency is a stress and anxiety-inducing situation and it happens multiple times a day. As an officer, he would go to 5-12 calls a day. The dispatchers are sending out hundreds of calls a day. He's curious what the impact is on wellness and mental health. He would look at contacting a company that creates branded wellness apps that takes all the information specific to your department, peer support, chaplains, critical information, and policies and puts it with best practices that work at other places. They have clients from around the world. Give that access to everyone; police communication officers, police officers, recruits, retirees, family members, police commissioners, and anyone who falls under the umbrella of your organization that could potentially benefit from it. Hawaii is a state that doesn't have deferred retirement options for state and county employees and that's certainly not something that a chief could do by themselves, but it's absolutely something that a chief here could spearhead a collaboration with other chiefs, state, and local law enforcement, and legislatures to make changes to allow a program which creates a huge incentive to those who are in that 25-30 year range to last another 5-8 years. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated dispatchers want a better quality of life. Part of that is a better work environment. It comes down to communication. We need to be able to start those conversations with the dispatchers. He believes that they feel like leadership does not recognize the challenges that they face on a daily basis. He believes they feel high stress with low pay, underappreciated, and undervalued, which also relates to the patrol side. Patrol and dispatchers are the backbones of the department. They should be cared for the most and we should be making sure that they have what they need. It also comes down to leadership and training. Do they have the right leaders in place, are their Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 15 leaders properly trained? Are the dispatchers properly trained? This goes back to again, improving the work environment, which leads to improving quality of life. Those things in itself feed into what he believes are the best recruiters of them all, the dispatchers themselves. We need them, we need to make them happy and we need to make them support our efforts. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he wants to work on getting the dispatcher's first responder status because with that comes the training and the pay that they deserve. He earlier spoke about having the dispatchers go out with recruiters to speak one on one with anyone interested in this profession and they could get first hand experience and ask questions, questions that others won't be able to answer because they don't do the job. As far as retention, he would want to look at improving their work conditions. Make sure they have proper and current training because it's a complex job and over time it gets more complex with more duties put upon them. Things like ergonomic chairs, lighting, new computers, and uniforms. Recognition, not only during telecommunications week but throughout the year for the heroic acts that they do. Part of his thinking, with the whole department is wellness and resiliency for all employees and dispatchers are no exception. He used to be a peer support counselor and they used to have defusing and debriefing sessions and included the dispatch staff, along with the officers involved in any critical incidents. Another thing he did at his current job was to encourage wellness checks with the EAP and encouraged employees to periodically check in with the counselors to talk about the stressors of the job. He would also implement 89-day contracts. If a dispatcher really needs to retire, they'll try to entice them back with the contract to buy a little time to recruit and train more dispatchers. • Vice Chair Brown stated safety has been described by some in politics as an issue that does not gain much support. Since when we are safe there is little publicity. With that in mind, how do you plan to start enforcing traffic laws that have been disregarded by many in patrol and as a result, those perpetrators feel entitled to continue as is? Are you familiar with the Broken Window Syndrome? (e.g. lifted vehicles, excessively wide tires, blacked-out windows, no mufflers, no license or covered plates) ➢ Edward Ignacio stated enforcement may have slipped, if that's what you're referring to, due to a lack of resources. Patrol is really busy unless they're going after seatbelts or something that's set up, they're responding constantly and if they're coming across these violations, I'm pretty sure they'll enforce it. They should do PSAs. Start a campaign and as they improve upon resources and make it a point to enforce these laws. He thinks the public would appreciate a heads-up. Even when speed limits are changed, people want a heads-up. If we start a campaign utilizing social media platforms, put it out there, communicate this to the community, everyone wants to do the right Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 16 thing. If we start that way, maybe it'll have an effect and then we'll follow up with enforcement. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he agrees with Mr. Ignacio. Staffing issues are the underlying issue here. The officers are forced to prioritize enforcement, preservation of life, and property. Enforcing the infractions that were mentioned isn't really high on that list, however, they are important. Officers may be burnt out, so he thinks to encourage this enforcement is to encourage using special projects. Have officers volunteer to work extra, so you're not forcing officers who have already been working a lot of hours. They could set projects up randomly around the island. He likes Mr. Ignacio's idea of PSAs, get it out there, and let the public know that this is a concern. Maybe with the PSAs, show examples of what the negative consequences can be with these infractions, such as rocks being kicked up from tires and cracking windshields, causing accidents. With the dark tint, it's hard to see at night. These are safety issues and if an explanation was done, along with the penalty for the infraction was given to the public, along with special projects of random enforcement, he thinks this would send the message out there that this is a concern and they need everyone's help in solving this. ➢ Sherry Bird stated as far as those safety violations such as lifted trucks and things like that, starting with an education piece for stuff letting the community know that these are violations and what constitutes the violation, the penalties, but basically using a time period where we educate the community. Most districts have district newsletters that they can put out. We could put it out as media releases and things like that and also talking about the dangers of what could happen if the rock kicks up into your windshield and things like that. Maybe move it on to a phase, she'll call it phase II where they actually do projects and go out and conduct the actual enforcement. In the education phase, they could also do projects where we do those traffic stops and educate face to face, giving them a warning. Another piece of that is we should be holding the inspection stations accountable as well. There should be a penalty for allowing these vehicles to have these safety checks if they're presented like that. Patrol officers are working very hard, they are constantly responding from call to call. She knows the districts also have district traffic plans so when they're not actually responding to a call, they are tasked with doing enforcement and being visible, trying to reduce that speed because the overall goal is to decrease traffic fatalities because none of them want to respond to those. As far as addressing those safety violations, coming up with a plan, the education she feels always comes first, communicating with the community, and then moving on to the next step for those that choose not to abide by them and then holding the inspection stations accountable. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 17 ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated he spent the majority of his career in the traffic division at HPD. As a result, he has amazing, wonderful, collaborative partnerships with people in the motor vehicle safety office and with the newly appointed director of transportation. These are all folks who they've worked collaboratively with for the past two decades. Hawaii County has the unfortunate designation of having the highest fatality rate per person and the highest number of both speed and impaired driving fatalities statewide. It's really important to focus on traffic laws and back to the original question about being familiar with the Broken Window Theory. The Broken Window Theory is essentially to paraphrase if there's a building that has a broken window, the community repairs the window then it doesn't attract more nuisance-type crimes, but if the window remains broken then people who are otherwise motivated to do things that the rest of the community wouldn't stand for or wouldn't like tend to be attracted to that area because they see it as "oh this is a place that the community is not focused on." One of the huge challenges, but at the same time opportunities that he's had in the traffic division in HPD was to be part of this collaborative partnership that developed the red light running program. He's not 100% convinced that it's a great thing, but seeing some of the violations, these violations that are captured by this red light running program are captured on video, it's not just a snapshot. We've seen collisions, people 5-7 seconds after running a red light. The power of that video is if you then share that video with the community it helps to gain support to understand why the state is undertaking such an effort. There's also going to be a bill introduced at the upcoming legislature to develop a statewide speed device plan that will attach a device to a stationary object such as an overpass or a pole that will measure vehicles' speeds and issue citations that way. Whether that happens or not, those are the kinds of relationships that he has with DOT and partnerships. The other thing is that all three other candidates focused on was the importance of getting priority one case taken care of by uniform officers. this takes priority over traffic enforcement. The motor vehicle safety office has a funding mechanism where they provide Honolulu with $3-4 million a year just to reach out to the community to do proactive sign-waving. They recently contracted with Island Life to do a two- minute PSA segment that people can watch in movie theaters and also a big chunk of that money goes out to enforcement. It's not that Officer Ben is out giving speeding tickets for the day because he's not responding to calls for service, it's also Officer Ben's day off and he's chosen to come in and specifically focus on this grant-funded activity that is at no net cost to the county because it's all passed through DOT funds through the state. Recess was called at 12:49 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 1:31 p.m. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 18 • Vice Chair Brown asked what is your level of experience in dealing with budgetary issues, policy issues (changing, deleting, or initiating new policy changes), crisis management, and interacting and cooperating with multi-government agencies. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated that at the Honolulu Police Department, we have a little over $330 million a year budget, and as a division commander, he's directly responsible for a chunk of that. He's worked in divisions where he's been responsible for millions of dollars worth of equipment purchases, and with that comes the requirement to be able to collaborate and cooperate with the department of budget and fiscal services. HPD is designated as its own little sub-purchasing unit, but anything over $25,000 they have to go to the city. He imagines it's similar here because the procurement laws are similar for the state. As far as policy issues, when he was assigned to the information technology division at HPD, in addition to handling infrastructure software and computer stuff, they handled and he was responsible for policies, changing, amending, and writing policies. They have research analysts who help them craft policies. At HPD they farm out all the department's policies to commanders, he has a lot of experience in issuing, changing, and deleting old policies and making sure those policies interact well with each other and that they reference the appropriate rules. In regard to crisis management, he had the unique opportunity earlier in his career to be a part of the APEC Planning Group, so in 2010-2011 they devoted a team of about eight officers to planning for this major event. They had 21 visiting heads of state; China, Russia, and the United States. They had a little over 14 months to plan for this and he was able to work with this team of people and was named HPD's Officer of the Year based on the management and planning skills that he demonstrated during this process. Regarding interacting and cooperating with multiple government agencies, one of the unique aspects of being in a large police department, is each division is of significant size, and that allows them a bit of autonomy to interact with state, county, and federal agencies and be able to effect actual change because they have a lot of resources that can help bring into collaborative partnerships. In his traffic role, on a daily if not weekly basis talking to the department of transportation services, budget and fiscal services, and department of facility maintenance. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated it was funny that they were talking about CALEA, in the federal agency, they have CALEA, he was actually in the CALEA implementation unit, Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement ACT. He was in the unit that was responsible for a $400 million budget, they had to ensure that carriers across the country were complying with law enforcement requests to adhere to subpoenas, phone numbers, and tracking. They dealt directly with congress and ensured that the country was compliant with that. Along with the officers, making sure they do subpoenas and services within the law. He led a team of scientists that were going out and testing all the Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 19 equipment around the country to ensure that law enforcement had a back door into these systems so it could comply with the law. When technology changed he had to change policy. They worked with carriers, as well as law enforcement which included major city chiefs and the national sheriff's association, at that level because they were changing legislation. In regards to crisis management, he stated that is completely in his wheelhouse, that was his specialty in the FBI. Regarding the APEC Conference, he was the lead planner for the entire FBI, he brought in 400 agents, several million dollars of resources, and a hostage rescue team. He had to make sure they filled every gap because it's a national security special event. The lead agency is the secret service, but there are some roles that are the responsibility of the FBI and he was the lead planner for that. He filled all the gaps, he dealt with every aspect from assigning personnel to what they were going to do on a daily basis to make sure they had the right equipment in place for personnel that were coming in from around the country. He was also sent to Super Bowls and he just came back from the Olympic Games, where he was the crisis planner. If something had happened at the event during the event he was one of the lead people on the ground to represent US interests. In regard to interagency cooperation, it goes hand in hand with CALEA. He was the head of the joint terrorism task force, they had all agencies, federal, state, and local throughout the entire pacific including the military. They were responsible for the antiterrorism mission. He has a lot of experience dealing with multi agencies in a collaborative environment and had shown a lot of success in that environment. ➢ Paul Applegate stated regarding budgeting issues, as the acting assistant chief at some point in time of all three bureaus at the Kauai Police Department, part of his duties is being tasked with preparing budgets for the bureau, submitting them to the chief of police, going over it, seeing what needs to be cut, and being fiscally responsible. As far as policy, he worked in internal affairs in the chief's office and it was part of his duties to review the existing policies with recommendations for improvements to the chief of police. In regards to crisis management, he's one of the few certified, type III incident commanders on Kauai. He was the incident commander for many disasters or near misses. As incident commander, he had many federal, state, and non- government organizations that he oversaw as incident commander and worked with those agencies to help preserve life and bring normalcy back to the residents. Multi-government agency, he touched upon that with his crisis management, but over the years in different capacities, he was the school resource officer and worked with many agencies such as the department of health and department of education. He collaborated with them on different projects and issues that were happening. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 20 ➢ Sherry Bird stated as you progress in your career, you become responsible for certain things, and as you get promoted and rise up in ranks you get more responsibilities. Over time she had the responsibility of scrutinizing things such as overtime and requests for equipment purchases. She has written grants, and had to manage those grants. As far as policies, she has been directly involved in the drafting, review, revision, and deletion of policies. When she was a district commander, things happen that's in your particular district, so you have to come up and revise and get rid of some policies that may not be working anymore. As far as crisis management, our island is so big, so when the SRT team responds to an incident if they respond to the Area II side of the island then she is the incident commander for things that happen there. Along those lines with the interaction with multi-government agencies, in her career, she spent 12 years in the vice narcotics section, and she served in every position in that section. The vice section works hand in hand with our federal law enforcement partners because our reach is only so big so we do need to get that working relationship we have a great working relationship with our partners so that we can maximize our reach. Also with the DOE; community policing programs and school resource officers working with those kinds of agencies to help educate our kids as well. • Vice Chair Brown asked what makes you the best candidate for the police chief of Hawaii Island. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he believes that all four of them are very qualified and at the end of the day if you picked any one of us, you couldn't go wrong. He feels he's qualified for this position because of his collective years of experience in life and his job. He believes he's the best fit for this opportunity, for this community, and for this department to lead them in the direction where they need to be led. Given his experience in law enforcement, he believes his personality and ability to bring people together from different groups to bond emotionally and work towards a common goal, even though we come from different philosophies or different trains of thought on how some things should be done. He has a way of bringing people together to accomplish the mission, as evidenced by his disaster management and for these reasons, he believes he is the best fit. ➢ Sherry Bird stated as Mr. Applegate said, everyone is qualified up there. She feels like she should be selected. She would be the best fit because she has what it takes to lead our department in a purposeful manner, one that embraces creativity and innovation. She doesn't want to do the same things, the same way we've always done them just because that's the way we've always done it. we have to think outside the box and be creative, and innovative. She wants to focus on building and enhancing our community policing, and our community engagement strategies and improve upon our Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 21 departmental efficiency. She is embedded in our police department. She cares about our police department, and our personnel, she has relationships established in the communities. She has good working relationships, and she has established herself as present, visible, and approachable. She's open to engage in dialogue and work together to come up with solutions whatever the issue is. On a personal note, she is a Big Island resident, she's invested in our community, and she cares about the overall safety and security of our Big Island. She has family, friends, and loved ones that live here. She has the drive, determination, skills, abilities, and capabilities that are needed as the chief and as mentioned, exploring that innovation and creativity that they need. Not just from herself, but she also seeks to gather ideas and ways to do things better from those whom she works with because she doesn't have all the answers. Looking for solution-based policing and also modernizing our police department. She feels like ultimately as the chief she has the abilities to lead our department and make a positive impact on policing on the island that we call home. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated they're four highly qualified people. What sets him apart, what exemplifies him, boils down into three areas. He is a person of unshakable integrity. You can talk to anyone who has known him, you may hear people who like him or didn't like him as a boss because he made them do or not do what they wanted to do or not wanted to do. But you will not find anyone who can reasonably or with any type of evidence or integrity question his integrity. That's absolutely something that's fundamental in someone you're choosing to lead an organization of this level of importance in the community. He thinks his collective education and professional experience sets him apart from the other candidates. He just recently finished his master's degree in law enforcement and public safety leadership. He is very well versed and very front of mind current day issues in law enforcement and public safety leadership. He thanked the commission for this public forum, this is a great step forward in inviting public interest and public testimony, and public participation in this process. He stated he's not from here and he doesn't know most people and explained that with his academic experience, he created a website. If people are interested from the public in what he thinks about policing issues, he would like to invite them to visit the website which is 11meetmajorben.com" it's something he set up as an academic thought process and there are a lot of academic papers there about what he thinks about different police topics and issues. When you're choosing someone for this position, you need someone who is going to use open, honest, transparent, and proactive communication to build successful collaborative partnerships and if that's what you're looking for, then he's the person for the job. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated the commission has done very well in choosing and no matter which direction they go, he thinks they'll have a great leader. He stated Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 22 it takes a village, he was raised in this village, and this is his home. He's retired and decided to come out of retirement to help the community. He will be a leader in this community whether it's in this position or another. The way he was raised, and the values that he has is leading him to this point in his journey. He has a different perspective from everyone there. He started in Honolulu, came home, and left for the FBI. It was really hard for him to leave, but he always knew that he would be sitting before the commission, applying for the chief. Whether he stayed in this department or took the journey that he did. he has the ability to see things at a 30,000-foot level and has the ability to bring to the table things that the other candidates don't have. He has worldwide experience, he's seen and worked with leaders at the highest levels of law enforcement. He believes thoroughly from what he has seen, that leadership is the key. He will bring leadership and integrity to the table. He feels he's the right person because he has the passion, he cares about this community, and he cares about this department. He has legacy in this department and he has a lot of people that he knows within this department. He knows that he's approachable to them and they can communicate with him issues that they may not to others. With that in mind, he feels he's the right person for the job and he would do a good job at it. • Vice Chair Brown stated, we have had several testifiers share their concerns regarding their confidence in a police chief who will uphold and defend the Constitution, especially regarding the overreach of government and law enforcement on its citizens. What would you say in response to those concerned? ➢ Sherry Bird stated we should be policing in a legal way. As law enforcement officers, our duty is to uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Hawaii State Constitution, the laws of the land, and things like that. It all starts with the chief; the chief must set an example and be educated on matters that affect this. Not only the chief, but command staff, and all the officers. They need to make sure our officers are educated, updated training occurs, and reoccurring training to make sure we're all abreast of it. Again, leading by example, sharing that message as far as the chief and the expectations, setting the example, and practicing what you preach. You can't say one thing and do another, it sets a bad tone for the department. If someone alleges that an officer is involved in illegal policing practice, make sure that we do an investigation to see if this actually happened and if it did then we need to address it appropriately whether it's with discipline, a refresher, training, or reeducation to make sure it doesn't happen again. Making sure our officers are trained in methods such as de-escalation, and alternatives to uses of force. If we can show as a police department to the community that we know what they're doing, we're practicing legal policing methods then on the flip side of that, it builds trust with the community. Ultimately the officers will do what the chief tells them to do, they're going to go where the chief tells them to go, Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 23 so we need to make sure that they're being told to do and go in the right places. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated in his view, the number one role of a police department or any law enforcement agency in the United States today is to protect the rights of people. How do we do that? We establish policies, respond to calls, and enforce laws. But fundamentally it comes down to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, in his opinion, in his view, is a shield. It protects individuals from the government and it protects individuals from each other. The role of federal, state, and county laws, and the role of legislatures on all three of those levels is subservient to what's in the Constitution, Charter, State, and Federal Constitution. Sometimes legislatures are misguided in their attempts or want to accomplish one thing without realizing that they're trampling on established law and that's where the judiciary comes in to meet out these discussions and come up with decisions. If you look at the other modern-day topics that our four county police chiefs are dealing with. In his personal opinion, if chosen for the job, he would follow the rules of the Charter and Hawaii revised Statutes as they're applicable and federal laws as well, but he doesn't think the police chief should have a role in granting second amendment rights. If that's a state function and the state wants to legislate it under the State Constitution then they should do it at a state level. To delegate that without the authority to protect those rights to him, it's a problem that each county police chief can decide in their county what rights that are protected by the United States Constitution and State of Hawaii Constitution and how they're applied. He would do the job, and he would apply his own view on policing to making those decisions, but it's something he would advocate to have that power taken away from the police chief because he doesn't think this is where it lies. It should be regulated, but it shouldn't be regulated at a county level. One of the questions he was asked once at a sergeant's interview panel was if you are given an order that is improper what should you do and if you are given an order that's illegal what should you do? If you're given an order that's improper, such as the police chief being ordered to violate policy, but it's still legal, it's still proper then you do it. But if you're given an order that's illegal, you're asked to do something that's improper, you have to have the integrity to stand up and say no, it's against the law, it violates the Constitution, I'm not going to do it. that's the requirement and responsibility that we impose on members of the police department. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated that he doesn't think there's been a police chief prior that has ever not upheld the Constitution, from this county. What it boils down to is perception. People who have those concerns have a perception based on their background and what they believe that the police chief may or may not be supporting the Constitution. The way you deal with that is by listening. You have to make sure you're actively listening to the people out there, addressing Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 24 their concerns and through action, which would be holding officers accountable if they cross the line or even being consistent in your processes. Everything needs to be consistent, and that will lend to dealing with perception. That's what the greater issue is, perception. They have the perception out there for some reason that the Constitution isn't being upheld. That's one of the things the chief would have to address, whether it's through being clear and communicating both internally and externally or being more transparent. This is something that's very fluid and he believes would be the best way to deal with this issue. Everyone here took the same oath and we all believe in the Constitution, if not, we wouldn't be here. ➢ Paul Applegate stated he believes that as a police chief and a police department, we have the obligation to uphold laws. We don't get to pick and choose which laws we will uphold. It is important that we treat everyone fairly and apply the laws consistently to everyone. If a member of the public believes that their Constitutional rights were violated, there are many legal avenues for them to take to address their grievance. They can file a formal complaint with this commission, the oversight body of the police chief. They could file a complaint with the office of professional standards at the police department. They could also call the FBI and file a complaint there. He thinks it's important that the public realizes that they do uphold the Constitution and we need to show them with actions that they treat everyone fairly and consistently with their application of the law. • Vice Chair Brown stated during the protest against the thirty-meter telescope on Mauna Kea, an ethics violation was lodged against then-Mayor Harry Kim. In short, Mayor Kim had directed HPD to perform actions that were ultimately ruled a violation by the Ethics Commission. If you were chief, how would you handle being given a directive to perform what could possibly be a violation of the law? ➢ Edward Ignacio stated he would not violate anything that he found to be a violation of the law. The Mauna has been a very hot topic and there are a lot of stakeholders involved. It's a state entity, but ultimately it is all going to be coming upon the department here. If he were given an order or directive that he felt was unethical, that's when you have to have those real hard conversations with all stakeholders; the Mayor's Office, Police Commission, and everyone including the leaders in the community. There might be a solution out there if we communicate or there may be another way to do things. Unless we grow collaboratively, we're not going to find that solution. Regarding the ethics violation, hardline no, he would not violate ethics if he found out it was an ethics violation. That issue will resurface again, we should be having conversations right now, at every level on how we're going to deal with this issue when it comes back again. There are a lot of people that were deeply saddened and those that were deeply affected by what's going on up Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 25 there. We can't just hope it won't happen again, it's going to happen. We're going to have to start having those conversations. ➢ Paul Applegate stated unequivocally, he will not knowingly violate any law. If there's any question if an order or directive violates any law, he would seek an opinion from Corporation Counsel or whatever legal body he could get that opinion from at the county. He would also use a collaborative approach for a peaceful resolution. He wasn't here when that happened, but he did see the coverage on the news. He believes in those situations diplomacy, collaborative approaches are one of the means to bring a potentially volatile situation under control and to all the concerns of all the stakeholders and those involved. ➢ Sherry Bird stated she will not knowingly violate any laws or ethics standards. If there was a question that arose about a particular directive, definitely seek the professional opinion of corporation counsel, engage in that conversation, and see if there's a way that we can resolve the issue without violating any type of laws or standards. TMT and that project are definitely a touchy and sensitive situation. It's going to come up again at some point, so we should begin dialogues and start talking about that process so that when it does approach us again, we have a plan in action already. As far as the ethics violation, it's definitely nothing she would participate in knowingly. ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated he thinks it might be a little more subtle and a little more nuance than an absolute I will never violate any law. He doesn't think anyone up there would act unethically, he doesn't think anyone up there would act without integrity. There are times when the legislature, city council, or congress establishes a law that the Supreme Court deems to be unconstitutional. He thinks the number one role of a person in this position is to respect and protect the rights of citizens. When you include the Supreme Court and the Constitution as guidance then it becomes a little more clear. There are a lot of resources that are available to a police chief; legal advisor, corporation counsel, best practices that are going on, and State Attorney General's office. Unless we're talking about a "really emergency gotta decide right now" situation then he thinks it's important to slow down in those periods to seek advice and to keep the department out of trouble. As leaders, we don't know everything and we don't know all the subtlety and nuance, but to get those differing opinions and then based on that counsel, make an informed decision is very important. The number one thing is to make sure that rights are protected and whether that be citizen's rights or in a different scenario where you're talking about the rights of employees that work for the department. There might be a public outcry for the police department to release information about an employee. While the employees are also citizens of the United States and citizens of the State and they have rights as well to their privacy. Understanding that balance is where the secret is and where the Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 26 magic kind of happens. The ability to speak truth to power is definitely something that's important in whoever you choose as the next chief because there are a lot of opinions and different voices that will tend to influence whomever the chief is either in positive ways or neutral ways or negative ways. The ability to tell someone like the Mayor, respectfully, I work for the Police Commission, you appoint the Police Commission, maybe we need to bring them into the conversation and make sure that we're consistent with the direction that the county is moving forward. • Vice Chair Tom Brown stated the hiring process for the police chief can often divide a department. Hawaii County is not immune. If selected, what steps do you propose to initiate that addresses this and ultimately reunifies the department? ➢ Benjamin Moszkowicz stated it's going to be a tough choice for you if you have to choose someone who doesn't currently work for the Hawaii County Police Department and that certainly is a concern. That will create challenges, a lot of them are perception challenges. Thinking through that process, what are some things he would do if he were selected to help alleviate that perception and to assure the members of the department that he is someone that can be trusted and will provide guidance and lead the department in the right direction going forward? If you bring in a chief who's not currently working for the department he thinks it's really important that person chooses a deputy chief, at least on a temporary basis who is in the department, someone who can help ease the transition, to help keep things rolling, to help the administration continue to roll. He thinks some of the mistakes or challenges that we have seen in other counties or areas where an outside chief comes in and they bring a friend from another department, it creates a lot more problem than needs to be created. Certainly, that's a challenge, finding a deputy chief in the department that you can trust that shares your vision and that's a fairly short process, but that's number one for him, coming from outside the department. Number two is he feels it's really important, especially for sworn officers we have a lot of honor and pride that we take in wearing the uniform. If you choose someone from outside the department, another huge perception piece is going to be, wait a minute this guy flies in from Oahu and suddenly he's wearing the same uniform I am, the same badge, same equipment and he wasn't from here. He thinks that its really important that whomever you choose if they come from outside goes through the same lateral transfer process, maybe during off duty hours there's a seven to eight-week period of classes that can be taken at the training academy, use of force scenarios, become qualified with all the equipment here before they put on the badge and wear the uniform of the Hawaii County Police Department. It's really important not only to demonstrate to the members that you understand the sacrifice that they have gone through to wear the uniform. It's also important to help whomever it is if they come from outside get up to speed on all these issues and topics. It's important for Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 27 any leader whether they're coming from inside or outside to very quickly make an assessment of the situation especially as it refers to the culture of the department and find ways to get folks to....in his mind it's what is it about your job that you love or what makes this place feel like home, what makes this feel like a family. If you can encapsulate those things, not only does it provide you with excellent resources for recruiting and retention down the road, it forces people to reflect on why. If you can encourage department-wide involvement in that kind of involvement or scenario, he thinks it goes a long way towards building a culture of trust that you're not someone who's here to change everything, you want to find the best solution that'll work both for yourself, the rest of the community and the department to move forward. ➢ Edward Ignacio stated one of the most important things is your deputy. He stated that he would be coming in from the outside, so he thinks it imperative and important that your deputy be from within the department, not temporarily, that's whom my deputy will become. He will come from the department, it would be someone whom he feels has integrity, the same vision, and goals, is respected, and has that understanding that would fill the gaps that he won't fill. This should be the number one priority. Secondly, he would take the time to learn and listen to the department and the commission, figure out what the problems are, and see what we're doing right, what we need to address, and what we need to fix. He prioritizes his actions. He looks at what he needs to do, what's a priority, and what is not. Slowly, not coming in with a heavy hand just start clearing everything out, but basically slowly looking at all these different aspects of the department and see where we can effect immediate change. A lot of the times it's just a simple fix. Doing that and doing it simply sends a message, and you need to have your message clear in your vision. What is your vision? You can't wait for a while to come out with a vision plan or mission statement that you believe in. You need to clearly articulate that, not only internally, but externally as well. Practice what you preach. We're all sitting here, saying things that we're going to do, we need to do them. If we say we're going to make a change or try to fix this, we need to do that as soon as we can. That will bring the guys together and create a better environment. ➢ Paul Applegate stated that if he were selected as chief, he would not come in and start making a whole bunch of changes without observing and getting the input of stakeholders within the department and all employees. As he stated earlier, he would want to conduct an audit, and part of the audit process is where everyone gets spoken to and where they can provide input, he feels this is really important on the internal side. He would definitely select a deputy chief from within. There are a lot of qualified people in this department, a lot of whom he worked with in the past when he was here 20 years ago. There are a lot of good people, there's no need to go external. He would assure employees that he's not going to come in with the goal of just changing this Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 28 department and making it like some other department. The Hawaii Police Department has its own unique character and history, he would want to preserve that. he would assure his commanders by setting his direction, by letting the commanders command and make decisions and he would support those decisions, which is very important. He would be fair, and consistent, always follow the policy and treat everyone with respect. ➢ Sherry Bird stated that she is an internal candidate however, as mentioned earlier, all of her career was spent in Area II or the west side of the island. We're a big island, we're a big department, she would take steps to get herself seen, and engaged with personnel on the east side of the island. Communication is very important, she would want to get out there and establish that face-to-face contact with everybody in each district, in each section and get that dialogue going and start establishing that trust because even though she is in the department, there are officers on this side that don't know what she's about. They don't know her or her work character. Getting herself out there, getting herself established as a trusted, capable leader that cares about what happens in this department. One of the things that she would do is put out an internal survey for the employees, so she could get a baseline gauge of where they stand as a department and see how the employees feel. She knows they have a lot of suggestions and ideas that could help make their job easier. Taking a look at those surveys and see how can we use some of those results and act on some of those suggestions. If we could find the ones that we can do something about that would help to improve trust within our department. As the chief you're going to have your commanders, everyone has their responsibilities, so you have to empower them to make sure that they know that they can make these decisions and make sure, as the chief you're backing them up when they're making decisions for the right purpose for their areas of responsibilities. Vice Chair Brown asked if any of the commissioners have any comments they would like to address to the candidates. There were none. Recess was called at 2:23 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 2:29 p.m. Commissioner Toci stated all candidates thoroughly answered all the questions, therefore that's why they don't have any follow-up questions. The commission will be meeting with all candidates tomorrow on the west side of the island and they'll have more questions then. Vice Chair Brown thanked the candidates for coming and stated they are looking forward to seeing everyone tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. Commissioner Springer thanked the candidates and apologized for the intrusion via zoom earlier. Commissioner Andrion thanked all candidates as well. Hawaii Police Commission Special Meeting Minutes December 12, 2022 Page 29 EXECUTIVE SESSION Commissioner Andrion motioned to meet in executive session to consult with the board's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the commission's powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and liabilities pursuant to HRS 92-5 (a)(4). Commissioner Toci seconded, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously. Executive session convened at 2:33 p.m. Motion to reconvene open session made by Commissioner Andrion, seconded by Commissioner Lassiter, with no discussion and it carried unanimously. Regular session reconvened at 2:59 p.m. ANNOUNCEMENTS The next meeting is scheduled for December 13, 2022, at 9:00 a.m., in the West Hawaii Civic Center, Building A Council Chambers, Ane Keohokalole Highway, Kailua-Kona, Hawaii. ADJOURNMENT Motion to adjourn was made by Commissioner Robinson, seconded by Commissioner Toci, with no discussion, and it carried unanimously, the meeting adjourned at 3:00 p.m. SUBMITTED BY: CHARISSE CORREA, SECRETARY APPROVED BY: THOMAS BROWN, CHAIR