Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-04-06 Windward Exh B (Item#1 ASIAA PL-SPP-2022-000025) WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI`I HEARING TRANSCRIPT (DRAFT) APRIL 6, 2023 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of ACADEMIA SINICA INSTITUTE OF ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS (PL-SPP-2022-000025) was heard at 9:28 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Council Chambers in Hilo, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chair Dennis Lin presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Dennis Lin, Lauren Balog, Wayne De Luz, and Chantel Perrin. COMMISSIONERS RECUSED: John Cross and Louis Daniele. ALSO PRESENT: Sinclair Salas-Ferguson Esq. (Counsel for the Commission), Jeffrey Darrow (Deputy Planning Director), Jessica Andrews (Planner), Alex Roy (Planner), Christian Kay (Planner), Clinton Mercado (Planner), Janice Hata(Zoom Host), Maija Jackson Planning Program Manager), and Melissa Dacayanan-Salvador (Windward Planning Commission Secretary). And fifteen members from the public are in attendance. APPLICANT: ACADEMIA SINICA INSTITUTE OF ASTRONOMY AND ASTROPHYSICS (PL-SPP-2022-000025) Application for a Special Permit for the temporary operation of an array of ten (10) satellite dishes and a 50-foot x 50-foot dipole antenna array and related improvements to conduct research on Fast Radio Bursts (FRBs) on an approximately 2.0-acre portion of a larger 10.7-acre property in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The subject property is located approximately 1,375 feet southeast(makai) of the Wood Valley Road/Makakupu Road intersection, Ka`ala`ala-Kapalapala, Ka`u, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 9-6-011:007 (por.). Secretary's Note: [indecipherable] indicates that there were technical and/or internet difficulties, which made the conversation inaudible. LIN: Okay, so the first item is applicant Academia Sinica Institute of Astronomy and Astrophysics, PL-SPP-2022-000025. Application for a Special Permit for the temporary operation of an array of ten (10) satellite dishes and a 50-foot by 50-foot dipole antenna array and related improvements to conduct research on Fast Radio Bursts or FRBs on an approximately 2.0-acre portion of a larger 10.7-acre property in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The subject property is located approximately 1,375 feet southeast(makai) of the Wood Valley Road, Makakupu Road intersection, Ka`ala`ala-Kapalapala, Ka`u, Hawaii, TMK (3) 9-6- 011:parcel number 7 a portion of. Noting that Commissioner Cross and Vice Chair Daniele are recused from this agenda item. We do have quorum to hear this agenda item. So, if I could ask Commissioner Cross and Vice Chair I EXHIBIT B Daniele to step outside until we are finished with agenda Item 91. But, sorry, if Commissioner Cross could you make just a brief statement about your recusal, please. CROSS: I used to be Land Manager for the Edmund C. Olson Trust and I think that connection was too significant even though I do not work for the Trust anymore. I'm quite attached to the lands, and I do provide consulting services now as an independent. So, I do receive funds from the Trust. LIN: Thank you Commissioner Cross. Vice Chair Daniele if you could make a brief statement regarding your recusal. DANIELE: Yes, good morning. I'm the General Manager of Ka`u Coffee Mill on Olson Trust land that encompasses the site of the first agenda item. LIN: Thank you so much. If the two Commissioners could please step outside until we are finished with agenda Item 91. [At 9:30 a.m. Commissioner Cross and Vice Chair Daniele left the Council Chambers] LIN: Sorry, we're just going to check outside if the speakers are on or not. Okay,just letting everybody know and those who are on Zoom that the two Contested Case Petitions were withdrawn. So, noting those two have been withdrawn, I will now move on to public testimony for agenda Item 91. The first person I have here in-person is Geoffrey Bower. If you'll please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Windward Planning Commission? BOWER: I do. LIN: Please press the microphone button and speak directly and clearly into the microphone. Begin your testimony by saying your name and the area you reside in. You have three minutes. BOWER: Okay, thank you. My name is Geoffrey Bower, and I live in Hilo. I'm the Chief Scientist for ASIAA based here in Hilo. We're a small astronomy research group. We are connected to a larger research group you may be familiar with our work on the Black Hole Powehi. Which received international attention several years ago and we were involved in the Hawaiian naming of that. We're here today for this project to study fast radio bursts. This is one of most exciting areas of astrophysics. It's an opportunity to study distant exploding stars that are sending radio waves to earth and that probe the history of the universe and the structure of the universe and there's a global activity in this area. Hawaii is a special place to carry out this research in the Wood Valley location is in particular a very special place for this because as optical astronomy suffers from light pollution. Radio astronomy suffers from radio frequency interference and so an isolated location shielded from television, cell phone, all sorts of communication devices your iPhone. By the mountain walls that surround the valley makes it very special. We've done studies around the island, and it is a unique 2 EXHIBIT B place here. Additionally, the island of Hawaii or the location in the Pacific is very special because it allows us to work with telescope arrays located both in Asia and North America. Connecting those together gives us a special set of results allowing us to localize events. It also allows us to see the sky at times when other telescopes cannot, and these are bursting events that occur actually just for millisecond duration and propagate across the universe. So, if you blink you miss it. I want to point out this is a passive activity we're not generating radio waves. The radio waves are coming to us, we're just receiving them. We in fact do absolutely everything we can to limit the amount of radio emission that gets produced by the electronics that we put there. We want to have a very small footprint. This is a temporary installation for this purpose as — MERCADO: Thirty seconds remaining. BOWER: — only up to 10 years. We're certainly very interested in working with the local community and the neighbors to be good neighbors in this area. We revised our application on the basis of some concerns that were previously introduced. I think more broadly it's worth considering this project in terms of seeing it as a diversification of the astronomy footprint here in Hawaii not only located on mountaintops. So, mahalo for your consideration. Thank you. MERCADO: Thank you. LIN: Thank you so much for your testimony. Next, I have Noa Caiserman. [Testifier from audience came up to the testifier table began speaking facing the audience without the microphone] Before I even speak on[indecipherable]. Can everybody just please close your eyes for a moment and[indecipherable] including all you guys. This is for everyone [indecipherable]. LIN: Good morning. If you could please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Windward Planning Commission? CAISERMAN: Yes, of course. LIN: Please press the microphone button and speak directly and clearly into the microphone. Begin your testimony by stating your name and the town you reside in and please summarize your testimony within three minutes. CAISERMAN: Okay, my name is Noa Caiserman. I live in Wood Valley, 22 years up, where you denied this installation and now, I live about a quarter of a mile from where this is going to be installed and that last speech was really affected me. This is to the Hawaii Planning Commission or what else did you me to say? I am a massage therapist of 23 years in applied kinesiologist. This is to the Hawaii Planning Commission and aloha. This letter is pertaining to the application of the ASII, ASAII installation of all you spoke about the 80 feet containers, 24 solar panels and something like 50-foot antenna. [Big sigh] I'm nervous and happy that all of you are speaking of neighbor papers as well. That's what I'm going to read off of. 3 EXHIBIT B The exact area just like the area where the project got rejected April 22nd , a year ago in upper part of Wood Valley will be desecrated if this project is approved. I live only a quarter of a mile from that. Here's exactly why people, farmers, cattle raising, and more are looking for the peace and quiet and remoteness of the society's building. This prime agricultural land to feed the people with the products and promote sustainable living. This area of all of Ka`u' s need to stay agricultural without questionable studies that take our lands away from the potential of our future existence of nutrition from our fertile lands. This will negatively impact not only us in this impact. It will impact all of Hawai`i island. This prime agricultural land to feed the people with the products that promote sustainable living do not have radio waves, frequencies especially in the most fertile and silent area when there definitely are more places that are not as beautiful as the paradise where we the people have chosen to live. It's surprising that the Olson Trust supports this project since they are in this agricultural true zone. The Olson Trust website promotes — MERCADO: Thirty seconds remaining. CAISERMAN: —to protect Hawaii. It's so beautiful conservative agriculture community yet they are supporting this project. My request is not to pollute or damage this area with this project. There are more other places that you may consider even, anyway, that you can do this kind of work without desecrating this area. They're not as beautiful and they are as silent. MERCADO: Your time is up. Thank you for your testimony. CAISERMAN: That last testimony really got to me. LIN: Thank you for your testimony. Next, I have Sandra Reha. REHA: Thank you. LIN: Hi. If you could please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Windward Planning Commission? REHA: Yes. LIN: Please press the microphone button and speak directly and clearly into the microphone. Oh, I think it's already on. So, you're good. REHA: It's on. LIN: Yeah. REHA: Okay, thank you. LIN: Okay. Speak directly and clearly into the microphone and begin your testimony by stating your name and the town you reside in. Please summarize your testimony within three minutes. 4 EXHIBIT B REHA: My name is Sandra Reha and I reside in the Ka`u district, specifically Wood Valley. I was living right across the street where the first time that they were presenting this. When I say they. On the sign it said Academia Sinica, but it's been wiped out and so nobody knew who's applying for this this time. But I see now that it's the same because I'm getting to renew my friendship with Dr. Chen who's I think the Director of the new set. Anyway, I'm so concerned about this. It's a much, much more complicated situation than I think anybody has been willingly looking at, especially in the things in this last year. As this has just been such a big thing in my life who and I care so much for the Ka`u district and keeping it agricultural. I think it's so essential. We take in 85% of our food is sent here is transported from elsewhere. We need to be able to have all the land and this is the designated Ag zone of this island, and we need to be able to have all our people that are able to be growing the food and the various supplies for us. I'm happy to announce that the property, the Mizuno property that ASIAA had been going for has been bought by a young family, a young farmer whose has big plans for utilizing that. I have someone looking at my property, a young family and I feel that since the sugar cane went out of business that it's taken a while for all this. But now we have the biggest mamaki tea farm in Hawaii, right there in our area and all the potential. But the way the weather's changing, the way that transport might not be able to get to us we need to be doing more and I'm not against the project. I think there's more unknowns about it than knowns. We don't know really — MERCADO: Thirty seconds remaining. REHA: —where they from, what they're about, whatever, and just much more needs to be understood and really clarified about all of this. I walked out of the Ka`u Footprint Park, and I looked and here's all this expands of land. No houses, no nothing, no whatever. You mean to tell me someplace in there they couldn't take those 10, 20-foot, 80-foot of containers — MERCADO: Your time is up. REHA: — 24 solar panels — MERCADO: Thank you for your testimony. REHA: —to that area. Doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't have to be in our agricultural district. LIN: Thank you for your testimony. REHA: Thank you. LIN: Commissioners any questions for any of the testifiers? No. Yes. CAISERMAN IN AUDIENCE: I just love to say one more thing. It doesn't have to be recorded. How would anyone here love to have that in front of their house, to look at for the rest of their life? 5 EXHIBIT B I'm just wondering. I raised my children there for 40 years. How would you like to look at that? [indecipherable] LIN: Ma'am. You've had your chance to testify and I'm afraid if you interrupt the hearing you'll have to be removed. Thank you. Hearing that there are no questions for the testifiers here in-person, are there any testifiers via Zoom on this matter? HATA: No, there are no testifiers on Zoom for agenda Item 91. LIN: Thank you Janice. Okay. We'll move on to staff presentation. So, if I could ask for, okay, so staff Jessica. KAY: Janice just want to confirm that you can see the slide show? HATA: Yes, good. KAY: Thank you. ANDREWS: Thank you. Good morning, commissioners. I'll be presenting on behalf of the Deputy Planning Director. So, this is a Special Permit application for Academia Sinica Institute of Astronomy and Astrophysics. This is the location map showing you the subject property in red. It is just to the north of Pahala. The applicant's request is a Special Permit to allow the following uses on a 2-acre portion of a larger 10.7-acre property. 10 commercial TV satellite dishes (20 feet in diameter)with reception capacity of 400 to 800 megahertz fixed in a stationary position facing northeast with 7-to 8-foot-tall support poles. A 50-foot by 50-foot dipole antenna array with stationary dipole antennas. A gravel driveway approximately 1,400 feet in length and 10 feet in width with an unobstructed clear width of 20 feet for Fire Department access. One catchment tank of at least 4,000 gallons capacity for fire suppression. One port-a-potty. Two 40-foot shipping containers for storage. A small 25 to 30 panel solar array, solar power array to support approximately 10 kilowatts of power to be installed on top of or adjacent to the shipping containers. Underground power lines connecting the satellite and dipole antenna arrays to the shipping containers and solar power array. And fencing to protect the proposed arrays from grazing animals, enclosing an area of approximately 1 acre. Reasons for the requests. According to the applicant, the array of satellite dishes would conduct scientific studies on the astrophysical origin of Fast Radio Bursts or FRBs. FRBs are powerful radio bursts coming from within and outside of our galaxy, which are not yet understood. The applicant intends to study the sources and origins of these radio bursts, which requires a"radio-quiet" site. Ka`u was found to be the best radio-quiet area on Hawaii island, based on surveys conducted by the applicant. The satellites and antennas are designed for FRB reception only. Therefore, no outward transmission of radio signals would occur. In addition, all satellites would be fixed to look at the northeastern sky only, thus no satellite movement would occur. The proposed use would be temporary, with an unspecified lease term that includes the option to renew the lease. And the proposed facility will operate unattended on a continuous basis, with one person checking on operations once or twice a week. 6 EXHIBIT B This map shows you the County zoning for the area. You can see the subject property, the property outlined in red, and the permit area in the upper northwest corner with a dashed blue line. The zoning for the property and the entire area surrounding it is Agricultural-20 acres or A-20a. The State Land Use for the area is Agricultural. The subject property and the entire area surrounding it is Agricultural State Land Use. The LUPAG or the Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide from the County General Plan designates, there's a mixed designation where 90% of the property shown in the white or I should say the permit area is Extensive Agricultural and a small portion is the light green which is Important Agricultural lands. So, it's a small portion at the northwest corner of the permit area. This is the applicant's site plan, and it shows you the Special Permit area in the upper right, sorry, the upper left corner and that Special Permit area is approximately 2 acres and the fenced area within that Special Permit area is approximately 1 acre. So, you can see the satellite array on the upper portion, shipping containers, catchment tank and port-a-potty in the center and then on the lower portion is the dipole antenna array. And it's all fenced, and then the entry driveway is on the left- side there entering the permit area. This is an aerial photograph showing the subject parcel outlined in red and then you see the 2-acre proposed Special Permit area in blue. Nearby you see Wood Valley Road which goes from the lower portion to the upper portion of the slide and that's the access road which the driveway accesses from. The Deputy Director's recommendation is approval with conditions including a 10- year life of the permit with no opportunity for renewal and that concludes my presentation. I will stop the screen share at this point. LIN: Thank you Jessica. Commissioners, questions regarding the staff's presentation? Okay. If not, we're moving on to the applicant's presentation. Will the applicant or the applicant's representative please come forward. [Male from audience went to the testifier table] LIN: Okay if you could please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on the matter now before the Windward Planning Commission? [Male from audience at the testifier table] I do. LIN: Please speak directly into the microphone, state your name, the area you reside in and whom you represent. [Male from audience at the testifier table]: Yes. Aloha kakou. Thank you, Chair Lin., Thank you Commissioners for being here and your dedication to this important process. It's been a long road to get to this point as represented and as testified by some of the applicants. There was a previous application for another site within the Wood Valley community with concerns brought up by those community members, we withdrew. We were not denied that application, we withdrew that application. 7 EXHIBIT B LIN: I'm sorry Mr. Pipan. You have to state your— PIPAN: Oh, yes. John Pipan, Land Planning Hawaii. Here representing ASIAA, Dr. Chen and his colleagues. LIN: Okay and before we get into the discussion of the agenda item. Have you received the background report and recommendation reports from the Planning Department, and do you agree with the recommendations including the proposed conditions and you can go forward from there. PIPAN: We have, thank you. So, we agree with the proposed conditions and very much appreciate the hard work by the Planning Department and this Commission on reviewing and helping us through this process. So, as I was saying based on the concerns brought to us by community members, we withdrew the previous application for another site within the Wood Valley community closer to neighbors and we broadened our search and looked for a site that didn't have nearby neighbors. Was more remote, was more isolated and we happened upon this site. So, here we are, and I have been advised and I do need to address a certain item mainly for the record. Just in case there's litigation surrounding this in the future due to the many delays we've encountered in this process. So, this current application requested to be heard at the January Planning Commission meeting. Now, due to circumstances outside of our control two commissioners being recused, there was no quorum and subsequently for several months since then there has been no quorum. There is Planning Commission rules that relates to time to perform certain duties of the Commission on applications. So, Planning Commission Rule 4 to 6, sorry, that was relating to the Contested Case Petitions. So, I'll skip that part. This is reflecting Hawaii Revised Statutes 91-13.5(c) and I don't want to read that in depth. But that requires the approving agency to make rules to establish deadlines. To make decisions on applications like these and the Planning Commission has made such rules. So, Planning Commission Rule 6-8 provides that within sixty days after the close of a hearing the Planning Commission has to approve or deny an application. So, the first hearing on this matter we would contend would be the January hearing and based on the minutes from the January hearing. Let me get to that part. Sorry, one second. Yes, so it's clear the Commission took up the item, the January meeting minutes state the Commission took up this item at 9:05 a.m. with five public members in attendance, Chair Lin stated two (2) commissioners of the five (5) commissioners in attendance had a conflict of interest on the agenda item and were recused, therefore, due to the lack of quorum to hear or act on the matter that application was deferred to the Commission's February 2, 2023 hearing. There is provision in Planning Commission 4-6(a)that says if the applicant requests that that meeting is deferred then the subsequent meeting would be considered. We made no such request in January. So, January was the first meeting. The time has elapsed to make a decision therefore, based on Planning Commission rules and based on this HRS 91-13.5 it would appear this application by technicality has been automatically approved. We don't want to sidestep the authority of the Commission, we think the public dialogue, we think your mana`o, your experience and wisdom is very important. And we think that the merits of this application will carry it to approval, so we don't have to rely on this technicality, this automatic approval. But,just in case of litigation or appeal or 8 EXHIBIT B anything like that I have to make these statements on the record so that we can refer to them at a later time. So, with that, with that said I'll move on to the actual substance of the application. So, applicants, ASIAA is a research institute in Taiwan striving to be at the forefront of astronomical research. It's their goal to become an international research institute engaged in frontier projects competing and collaborating with leading research groups worldwide. So, this proposal is like a Special Permit in its perfect form. It's a special unreasonable use, unusual request of agricultural land and although the surrounding area does have good agricultural potential the very small scale and limited duration of the project means that allowing for this temporary use will not displace any existing agricultural activity or just diminish the future agricultural potential of the land. The neighboring uses are rural and agricultural, and we looked hard for a suitable location that would entail very little to no impact on the surrounding community and in this case, I think we found that ideal site. The nearest neighboring dwelling is over 1,800 feet to the northwest and we're proposing screening plantings in that direction to prevent view impacts from the small installation to these existing homes and to potential building sites shown to us by the nearest neighbor to this project, Mr. Coffman. We've been working with him for months and addressing any and all of his concerns. He would be the most impacted by this request since the driveway relies on an easement that crosses his land. No impacts are anticipated to traditional or customary native Hawaiian rights. There's no notable resources or customary practices on this site. This area was all previously cultivated in sugarcane and the Special Permit area was previously used as a log disposal area. SHPD has determined that no historic sites would be affected by this use. Again, traffic impacts next to non-existent. A couple of trips a week and at the heart of this project is the research, the question. What is this phenomenon and what causes it? Research into astronomy and astrophysics helps us to understand our place in the universe and the history and evolution of the cosmos. Cutting edge astronomy research like this is pushing the boundaries of our understanding of the universe and it's opening up new frontiers of discovery. From the detection of axle planets orbiting distant stars to the observation of most distant objects in the cosmos. Astronomy research is constantly pushing the limits of what we can see and know. This research is also driving the development of new technologies and techniques that allow us to study the universe in an unprecedented detail. Whether it's the use of advanced telescopes or the creation of new computational models' astronomy research is at the forefront of scientific innovation and discovery and by supporting this research we can continue to unlock the secrets of the universe and shape our future in meaningful ways. We're happy to answer any questions you may have about the project and respectfully request your consideration to approve this Special Permit. LIN: Thank you Mr. Pipan. Questions? Sure, Commissioner Perrin, go ahead. PERRIN: Good morning, I have a question. So, I did a little research on the radio frequency, radio fast bursts and I think a lot of what's resonating with the community is the affects it may have both on the people, on the land and the animals, wildlife, birds, all of that because it's all a part of who we are. 9 EXHIBIT B PIPAN: Yes. PERRIN: So, I think if you folks could share a little as to how it may affect, or if there is any affect and maybe look in the light as what can you give back to the community. We love science. It does amazing things like you said. It's the forefront of what's yet to come. But what can science give back to the community? Just a question. PIPAN: Thank you for your question. As to first, these signals at their source are very energetic but by the time they reach the earth, they are extremely faint and again this site is solely passive. It's not emitting any radio radiation itself, it's simply receiving these very, very faint signals and it has to be located in this very radio quiet area so that there's not extraneous sources. There's no extra noise that they have to filter out or sift through or get rid of to actually find that very faint source of the radio bursts. So, there's no emission from the site, there's no impact to floral, fauna, or to folks' health. If you're living closer to like a cell phone tower or just living with your cell phone on you all time that's a greater source of radio waves. And in terms of giving back to the community, education right. Inspiring our youth by saying there are opportunities here on the Big Island for making cutting edge contributions to the knowledge of science and having students and community members engage in that process is crucial. So, I think that's how it's giving back, its saying Hawaii is a very special place for research, for furthering our knowledge. PERRIN: That's amazing. Maybe if you folks could work it into what you have going on and make it where you can maybe invite the kids up once a month and share and or even putting together a newsletter that feeds the community letting them know what you're doing. Or even just to maybe go adopt a highway,just so that they can see you and know, "hey, yes, we're taking up space but we're also going do our best to be good stewards of this land. So, what's yet to come is still going to be [indecipherable] enjoy it to its utmost potential. Okay. PIPAN: Agree, agree, thank you. PERRIN: Thank you. LIN: Thank you Commissioner Perrin. Any other questions Commissioners? I have a question, two questions. One would be, what kind of outreach have you done so far? In terms of your previous application that was denied as well as your current outreach speaking to the community in Ka`u, the farmers, the neighbors. So, if you could just expand on that. PIPAN: Yeah, thank you for your question. Aside from the basic requirements of notifying surrounding property owners and posting a sign for the project. We have engaged interested community members in on-line talk story sessions. Last year we did that on the previous site. We've gone to the site and held just kind of informal talk story sessions with community members, Dr. Chen was involved in that as well. We went out and visited the site with Mr. Coffman, that nearest neighboring property owner to look at the sites for he was proposing to build in the future to make sure that were not impacting his views from his property which is the nearest neighboring property. We adjusted the site plan based on that back and forth with Mr. Coffman to be more toward to the north end of the property and more square in shape and have the screening 10 EXHIBIT B plantings consisting of bamboo and banana and even going so far as to erect a taller fence on that site to attach screening material in the interim until those screening plants can grow in. We've done a lot of outreach on this one and much of the testimony in opposition has come in at this last minute before this Commission meeting. Prior to the January meeting, there was no opposing testimony for this use. So, again, we're trying to address things that are valid concerns that we can do aside from moving to another site. This is our second site that we chose specifically to address all of those concerns brought up in that significant back and forth with the community. LIN: Thank you Mr. Pipan. I appreciate your comments but, based off of the testimony that we did receive and the testimony that we got today. Mr. Coffman is a neighbor, but he may not represent the community as a whole. So, has that community had been reached out to discuss this project? PIPAN: So, we got a good sense for the concerns of the community from the initial meetings last year, around this time and our impression was they don't want the project period. So, it seemed that nothing that we could do aside from pulling the plug and giving up would satisfy them and I don't see that as something that we can mitigate or plan for or plan around. Just giving up is not a reasonable request at this point. So, there's only so much dialogue back and forth that you can have. When you've made your best attempt to mitigate every valid reasonable concern and satisfy those that are most impacted by the project. When those who continue to be opposed would do so regardless of what you chose or offered. LIN: Thank you. My second question is how do define radio quiet areas? What is the criteria that ASIAA looks at when choosing a location? PIPAN: I'll defer to Dr. Chen; he's done the surveys and knows how best to quantify that. Dr. Chen? LIN: Sir, I'll have to swear you in first. So, if you'll please raise your right hand. Do swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter in front of Windward Planning Commission? CHEN: Yes, I do. LIN: Okay. Please state your name, and you may go ahead. CHEN: My name is Ming-Tang Chen. I have lived in Hilo for 22 years. I came here just to do astronomy. So, I have a project on Mauna Kea for doing astronomy during all this time. So, I'm an employee of Academia Sinica which is headquartered in Taipei, but we have a branch office here because we want to be international, and astronomy basically is international. So, this is the front line of our research so that's why I'm here. PIPAN: Radio quiet surveys? CHEN: Yes, so, the radio quiet surveys that's civilization. We use a lot of radio devices. The most obvious one is our cell phone. The cell phone actually comes with different 11 EXHIBIT B generation and come with different frequency. We will say that usually in lower frequency parts, but this part is the part that we are most interested in for specific science topic. Usually this is something that technicality we say that is below 5 gigahertz. So, usually our Wi-Fi is something like 2 to 3 gigahertz. Our cell phone now the LTE, which is below one gigahertz, something like 700 megahertz. Our communication, our walkie-talkie, this thing is something about a couple hundred megahertz. Our radio station FM which is about 100 megahertz. We will listen to this Hawaii PBS 93.3 megahertz. So, it happened to be this part of the frequency is what we are most interested in. Clearly because the signal we're interested in is so weak, extremely weak. It's all under this man-made signal. All this, our cell phone, our Wi-Fi, our walkie-talkie is all much lower than that, that frequency. So, if I want to do this experiment in Hilo, that's impossible because we have this so-called spectrum analyzer[indecipherable]we see the air is full of all these different man-made signals. We cannot see anything that's coming from the sky. So, that's why I've looked around the whole island very well, as many places I can assess to, that reasonable I can drive to and I'm going to use my device to check for how noisy of the environment and it turns out that I looked and looked, and it's happened to be in the south part of the Big Island is the most quiet. But you sort of can envision that because first of all it's flanked by Mauna Loa. So, all the signals from Kona side, from Hilo side that it can be blocked out by Mauna Loa. There's a strong cell phone tower from Volcano Village that's broadcast along the highway, that's for safety. Even that is too strong for our work. So, I had to try to hide away from that signal somehow. I cannot go too south because once past Pahala then that's South Point, that's Discovery part and then there's even a very strong radar right next to Pahala on the southwest side. That broadcast is extremely strong that will completely saturate everything that our sensitive device. So, this is how we define a safety quiet zone. If you go to Wood Valley, there's just no cell signal. Your cell phone doesn't work there. It's so nice, so quiet. So that's the best place but then we respected our neighbor. I do recognize that is not the right way for us to put our experiment, that's why we came out of Wood Valley. I did the test again, it's not as good but I think for our experiment so far, we can take it. We can do it there. So, that's why we think that's a good place to do it. Many because there's just no man-made signal. We are just listening. We're sitting there listening to some whisper from the sky, that's a natural whisper not intelligence. So, that's what we call the radio quiet zone. LIN: Thank you Dr. Chen. I appreciate the background. I guess why Hawaii Island. There's other islands in the Pacific, there is Alaska up north, there's all these different areas that could be a possible site. But why choose Big Island? CHEN: Well, that's because I'm here. I think mainly because this is the location that we've been doing astronomy here. I'm a scientist, I'm doing this for my career. As a scientist we don't really produce things, the physical thing, tangible things, but we do explore. We make knowledge, no, we explore knowledge, and we try to understand our past and understand what we are now. Because I believe that by knowing and gathering all this knowledge then we will know better to make decisions for the future. So, that's what I do. That's what actually my colleague do, we do it as a career. So, we always keep looking at a good site to do this. Yes, there might be a 12 EXHIBIT B better place in Alaska but, clearly, I'm not there. We don't have a setup there so I can't set up any site there because I'm here. We had this opportunity. We have the interest of doing this. This interest it's not just from my headquarters, I'm doing this together with a Canadian's project which was a much bigger project. I'm doing this with colleagues on the mainland. So, this is a global interest from scientists. So, this is also part of the way we are doing this because it comes to us a stage that technology is mature enough that we can explore this. If it's 10 years ago or 15 years ago, our technology is not this advanced because of the mature of technology so that makes the scientists interested in this. We just think that maybe we can get together to spend 5, 10 years to try to understand what it is. That's the science. LIN: Thank you. Any other questions Commissioners? No, it not I would like to entertain a motion or does the applicant want to respond to any of the testimony that was provided today. PIPAN: Certainly. Ms. Caiserman stated she's a quarter mile from this site. CAISERMANINAUDIENCE: That's right. PIPAN: And I'm thinking you may mean the previous site. CAISERMANINAUDIENCE: No, right where you're talking about[indecipherable] PIPAN: Okay. Well, yes, the map covered much more than a quarter mile in diameter. So, we could pull that up, but my understanding is the nearest, nearest home is well over a quarter mile away and that has not been a source of objection basically. And again, we were withdrawing our previous proposal, not rejected and I think I did miss one point in the technical got to get on the record from previously. I did discuss Planning Commission Rule 6-8 which provides 60 days after the close of the first hearing, the Planning Commission makes a decision. There's also Planning Commission Rule 6-6 which provides that 90 days from the acceptance of a Special Permit the Commission will set the date for the hearing, and it would be 90 days, right. So, we didn't request a delay to this point, we haven't agreed to all the delays that brought us to this point. So, that argument as well I just want to preserve for the record that we do believe that this matter has already been settled by this technical automatic approval provided in Planning Commission Rules. So, again we do believe that based on its merits this is a good project that does not entail significant adverse effects to the community or agricultural potential of the land, it is unusual and reasonable, it meets all the criteria that you as Commissioners need to evaluate for a Special Permit. And again, we definitely respectfully request your approval of this. Thank you. LIN: Thank you Mr. Pipan and your comments are noted for the record. So, if anybody else has any questions, if not motion? 13 EXHIBIT B DE LUZ: Chair, I move that the application for Special Permit Docket No. 2022- 000025, be approved based on the Deputy Planning Director's recommendation, which shall be adopted. LIN: Okay, it's been moved by Commissioner De Luz, is there any second to that motion? BALOG: Second. LIN: Okay, it's been seconded by Commissioner Balog. Any discussion or comments? Okay, I would just like to say that I agree with Ms. Perrin's comments earlier. It is one thing to do scientific research but to be committed to the community and participate and be interactive with that community is important. So,I hope that that's put in the back of your minds. So, that's all I have. Staff, roll call vote if there are no other comments. Oh, Commissioner De Luz, you have anything. DE LUZ: I'm sorry. LIN: Oh, okay. Staff roll call vote,please. ANDREWS: Okay thank you Chair. Commissioner De Luz? DE LUZ: Aye, favor. ANDREWS: Commissioner Balog? BALOG: Aye. ANDREWS: Chair Lin, I'm sorry, let me back up. Commissioner Perrin? PERRIN: Aye. ANDREWS: And finally Chair Lin? LIN: No. ANDREWS: With a 3-0, with a 3-1 vote the motion does not pass. I turn the floor back to the Chair. LIN: The reason why I voted no is because I just don't feel that it's the right place. Just in my mind just from a lay person's perspective there's so many other different locations and it's still not clear to me what the criteria for just silent, radio silent area. I mean that could be defined on any other place, but it still comes back to my mind as to why Ka`u. I'm sure there's other locations on this island that could be radio silent. I'm not saying I'm against science. I just think that there is, there's options still out there. Just yesterday, or this morning I was reading an article regarding exoplanets and repeating radio wave coming from an exoplanet. I mean, that kind of 14 EXHIBIT B scientific finding is fascinating to me. But is it the way that the research is being done necessarily respectful of the community that it's in and have we really researched all the different options. That's my thought process regarding that. If other Commissioners want to convince me otherwise, I'm open to that as well. But I vote with my conscience. PIPAN: Chair Lin if I may just about the search that drew us to this specific location. So, Dr. Chen had done groundwork initially as he describes surveying around the island, looking for radio quiet sites and found himself in Ka`u and in Wood Valley as the best site. For the reasons he's described with Mauna Loa, Volcano creating a shield from sources in civilization of radio noise. So, there's this pocket in Wood Valley and the best site is where folks live in Wood Valley. So, he negotiated a lease with the Mizuno property owners which was the previous site and we heard concerns of the community members as were getting nearer to the Planning Commission public meeting and we found it prudent to withdraw that site. So, this brought us to a search. Again, some place nearby that still had those attributes of being shielded from sources of radio noise from civilization but was more remote, more isolated, and wide-open acreage areas and this is something that Ms. Reha actually put in her original contested case petition. Why don't you look for a site that's in open acreage areas and that's what we did. We took that to heart. We went out and we searched, and we found this 10-acre parcel that was surrounded by 100 acres of open land and all we want to do is use 2 acres of it, fence 1 acre for this temporary use. The site will be returned to its original condition 10 years from now if this is approved. This is not going to be here for 11 years even. So, this is a special area. We definitely respect the concerns and we're doing everything that we possibly can to be as mindful and as minimal as passive as possible aside from not existing. So, that's what drew us to this site. It's in an area that's surrounded by really nice soils, and we toured Mr. Coffman's farm and saw the amazing work that he's done there on his farm. This site is not the same soils as that nearby site. The soils are much poorer in this small area as evidenced by the extensive agricultural designation and evidenced by its previous use as a log disposal site. They are not going to use prime ag land as a log disposal site. So, we saw all of these factors really lining up as this is the ideal site. We're not nearby a bunch of neighbors, and the neighbor that we are nearby, we've talked with them extensively and worked with them to satisfy their concerns. So, aside from going to another Pacific Island or Alaska that's really outside of the scope and our ability that's honestly not a criterion we employ to evaluate Special Permits. Is this an unusual and reasonable use, is it going to adversely affect the agricultural potential of this area? It's not. So, I think it's clear that is a suitable temporary use without serious adverse impacts. Respectfully. LIN: Dr. Chen? CHEN: Yes, so, I was doing the site survey 2 years ago. So, I pretty much did along the entire Hamakua Coast. All the way reaching not in the Waipi`o at least before Waipi`o. So, all this side on the Hilo side. I also did the Saddle Road. Actually, Saddle Road is pretty bad because all the military communication safety everything is very, very noisy. I even endeavored into Mana Road but that's simply not easy to operate. I did the Kohala side, so that part I did about 50 to 60 sites around the island. So, why I didn't go to other islands? As you can see, we are a very small 15 EXHIBIT B outfit, my colleagues are all here. This is 60% of my whole team here. We are small, a small operation amongst scientists. We wrote a proposal to our funding agency to ask for money. Usually, we have to be very optimistic and lower our budget. So, as you can see, yes, yes, it's very poor. So, what we can offer is our more educational outreaching. So, I think for example we can go to Ka`u community, go to the high school, or go to the school maybe not weekly but monthly. So can go there to promote science, to talk about astronomy. If students are interested, we can take in interns. We are taking akamai students every year. We have several Hilo High School, even Waiakea High School and there's also the U.H. Hilo students they all come to work for our small team. After that they go to study on the mainland and even internationally. So, what we can offer is that we can work on the public outreaching to the kids. We can show them our instruments. If they're doing really well, we can even send them to our international partner. As an internship, as an opportunity and those part we can offer. Thus, our service, our experience and we are willing to offer that as our feedback to the appreciation to the community. You have my word that we can do it. We'd like to do it. LIN: Thank you Dr. Chen. I think that's the piece that this whole case was missing was your commitment. We don't, I don't think that scientific research is wrong but, it just seemed like you're putting satellite dishes on a property and just walking away. The information just comes to you, and you do nothing else but just sit at your computers listening to the radio waves that come in. What I was looking for was exactly what you just said is what are you going to do for the Big Island community, the Ka`u community and how you can help support that community in terms of here's what we have to bring you. I think that's the piece that I was looking for. So, with your statement on record, I hope that you do commit to that and with that I change my vote to an aye. CHEN: Thank you. FEMALE SPEAKING FROM THE AUDIENCE: [indecipherable] LIN: I'm sorry ma'am, you had your testimony in the beginning. I'm sorry, the rules are as stated — FEMALE SPEAKING FROM THE AUDIENCE: [indecipherable] LIN: I'm sorry, I cannot take any further testimony outside of the testimony period. So, staff roll call vote. ANDREWS: Yes, I believe we're going to redo the original motion, or do we have a new motion? LIN: Commissioners, would you be opposed to adding a condition for purposes of getting an update report in some of the community engagement that this organization is doing? PERRIN: No, that would be awesome. That would be awesome. 16 EXHIBIT B DE LUZ: I think Chair though you got to be more specific as far as when you use the word community. I think if taking Dr. Chen's suggestions, I think if he supports it and sends it in. I see him as a person of great moral character. So, community people change. He's going to be there for the whole duration of this project so, I would say that if that is what you have in mind, I'm not opposed to that. But I would probably take it straight to the source and have him that way we can always make recommendations or changes. I think that was a great presentation on his part on how he wants to involve the community and quite frankly I've seen TV discs bigger than that. So, we appreciate it. Yeah, I think that's a great recommendation, I agree. LIN: Dr. Chen. What do you think about that condition? PIPAN: Just provide a report on community outreach? CHEN: Yes. DE LUZ: You want to annualize it or— LIN: Yeah, annual report. DE LUZ: Yeah. LIN: So, for the duration of your 10-year permit, you would provide an annual report each year of what kind of community outreach that you've been doing here on Hawaii island and beyond if related to this project. CHEN: I agree, yes. LIN: Could I propose a motion for that condition? DE LUZ: Sure, I move that the application for Special Permit Docket 2022-000025 be approved based on the Deputy Planning Director's recommendation in addition to Chair Dennis Lin's recommendation of an annualize report from, I'll just put the Director of the Academy to submit on an annualize basis should be adopted. LIN: Is there a second? DE LUZ: That sounds pretty good? LIN: Yep. DE LUZ: Okay. LIN: That's good with me. Is there a second to that motion? PERRIN: I second. 17 EXHIBIT B LIN: Okay, it's been moved by Commissioner De Luz and seconded by Commissioner Perrin. Any further discussion or comments? If not, staff roll call vote. JACKSON: Chair Lin? LIN: Yes. JACKSON: Can I get clarification is that report being provided to the Planning Commission or to the Department. LIN: Planning Department so that it's on record. JACKSON: Okay, thank you. ANDREWS: Okay, so this is a motion to approve with amendments namely the condition as stated. Commissioner De Luz? DE LUZ: Sorry. LIN: Motion approval, your vote. DE LUZ: Oh, I'm sorry, approved. ANDREWS: I can restate it if you'd like. DE LUZ: That's good, aye, I'm sorry. ANDREWS: Okay, Commissioner De Luz, what did you say? DE LUZ: To restate the motion? ANDREWS: No, it's okay I'll restate here. DE LUZ: Okay. ANDREWS: So, this is motion to approve with the amendments of the condition regarding the annular report as stated. So, it's a motion to approve. DE LUZ: Approve. ANDREWS: Thank you. Commissioner Perrin? PERRIN: Approve. ANDREWS: Commissioner Balog? 18 EXHIBIT B BALOG: Approve. ANDREWS: And Chair Lin? LIN: Aye. ANDREWS: The motion passes with four votes. LIN: Thank you and you'll be notified of the Commission's decision in writing. PIPAN: Mahalo. Thank you very much. CHEN: Thank you very much. The item ended at 10:40 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Melissa Dacayanan-Salvador, Secretary Windward Planning Commission 19 EXHIBIT B