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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-07-06 TPACIFIC PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT JULY 6, 2007 A regularly advertised hearing on the PACIFIC ISLAND INVESTMENTS, LLC (SMA 07-000018)was called to order at 10:51 a.m. in the County of Hawaii, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with Second Vice-Chairman Rodney Watanabe presiding. PRESENT:Rodney WatanabeABSENT & EXCUSED: William Graham Takashi DomingoC. Kimo Alameda Alvin RhoAndrew Iwashita Shelly Ogata Rene€ Siracusa Rell Woodward Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel ChristopherYuen,PlanningDirector Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner And approximately 40 people from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: PACIFIC ISLAND INVESTMENTS, LLC (SMA 07-000018) Special Management Area Use Permit to allow the development of a 12-unit condominium complex and related improvements on approximately 1.44 acres of land. The property is located between Kalanianaole Street and Apapane Street in the vicinity of Puhi Bay, Keaukaha, South Hilo, Hawaii, TMK: 2-1-14:4 and 5. WATANABE:Okay, moving along, we are now on Agenda Item No. 5. The applicant is The Special Management PACIFIC ISLAND INVESTMENTS, LLC (SMA 07-000018). Area Use Permit is to allow the development of a 12-unit condominium complex and related improvements on approximately 1.44 acres of land. With that, I€ll turn this over to staff. I know they are just changing the exhibits now so once again I€d like to take the time to remind the public that if you care to testify on any of the agenda items that you do need to sign up with Sharon Nomura over there. KAHAWAIOLAA:Mr. Chairman, if I may. Just a point of information for the Commission. WATANABE:Yes. KAHAWAIOLAA:My name is Patrick Kahawaiolaa, president of the Keaukaha Community Association. Just so that the Commissioners don€t continue to be, have a quizzical look on their faces, when you look out in the audience -. I€m happy and pleased to have these young men and 1EXHIBIT A women (approximately 23 in numbers) you see back here. They belong to a summer program that we have and I want to make sure that they get their ideas and information about how ethics, how civicsrun in their community, in their county. So they€re here. So if any of them would like to testify I€m quite sure the process, you know, we try to tell them this is how it needs to be done. But they€re basically here,you know, to see and know that there is such an animal as the Planning Commission and County Council; and so that they as native Hawaiian children are able to move into the process in the future. Thank you. WATANABE:Okay, fine, thank you. I noticed where you€ve also signed up to testify on this issue. Thank you. Mr. Darrow. DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The next item on the agenda is a request for a special management area use permit. This is located in the South Hilo district of Hawaii. More specifically, we€re looking at the Keaukaha area. Just for reference, this is Kalanianaole Street runninginanease-westdirection.WehaveApapaneStreetwhichrunsparallelwith Kalanianaole. And the blue dot is the location of this subject application. We also have, this particular application is within the area of Onekahakaha Beach Park. This would be the entrance road located just to the east of the application. This particular application involves two properties, so you have a larger property and a smaller property, both equaling 1.44 acres in size. The applicant in this case, Pacific Island Investments, LLC is requesting a special management area use permit to allow the construction of 12 condominium units. The applicant has submitted several site plans, elevation plans. This was the view from Apapane Street. This is the view from Kalanianaole Avenue. And then we have an overall site plan. This is Kalanianaole Streeet and we have Apapane Street on the lower portion of the map. The applicant is proposing to construct two triplexes; and these will be accessed off of Apapane Street. We do have the particular accesses identified here and the proposed structure layouts identified in these particular areas. Additionally we have two duplex structures and two single unit structures that will be on the Kalanianaole side and accessed from that street. We have the proposed layouts for the access from Kalanianaole. Again, for reference, this would be the north side of the property. We do have Arnott€s lodge, you might be familiar with that, and also the Alii Kai Condominium units on the other side. Between the condominium units and this particular property there is a paper road undeveloped that is identified as Hapai Avenue. The applicant is also proposing related improvements such as landscaping and so forth. The Planning Director is recommending that the Planning Commission approve this application. Just for reference since we€ve distributed this particular application we have had several submittals. We€ve had a comment letter from the Department of Water Supply, and a response letter from the applicant in regards to that comment letter. Additionally this morning we have received several letters of support; and these should have been passed out to the Commissioners. Lastly conditions to mention to the Commissioners, because this particular application involves two properties, as a condition of approval we€re asking that the applicant consolidate these two properties, that€s Condition No. 2. Additionally, because this particular property is located within the Flood Zone A, E and VE, Condition 4 states that the plans shall identify the lowest habitable floor elevated to 18 feet above mean sea level for all habitable structures. Even though 2EXHIBIT A the flood requirements might be lower than that, we are asking based on the possibility of a tsunami event in this area that the lowest habitable structure be above 18 feet. Lastly, Condition No. 16, I€d like to read that to you -- This involves the pond. As you€re looking at the property you see that a majority of the property does have ponds on. This is for the restoration of these ponds. -- The applicant shall submit and implement a pond restoration plan for the restoration of the pond complex located on the project site. The plans shall be reviewed and approved by the Planning Director prior to the commencement of any construction or land alteration activities on the property. The structures and parking areas shall not encroach on the pond to a greater extent than shown in the proposed site plan,‚ which is shown at this point, which there is very little. If any, you might see a little bit of cantilever flora area that€s over the pond area. Again, the Planning Director is recommending that this special management area use permit request be approved by the Planning Commission. Are there any questions? WATANABE:Arethereanyquestionsofstaff?CommissionerSiracusa? SIRACUSA:Well,Iwanttowaitandaskaquestionofthepersonwhostudiedthepond biology. So I€ll hold my question. WATANABE:Okay, okay, thank you. Are there any other Commissioners with questions of staff? Seeing none, then may I call the applicants up. Let me take the time to swear all of you in now. So you would kindly all raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. WATANABE:Thank you. If any of you are going to testify, please state your name and address prior to, for the record. MOOERS:My name is Greg Mooers. I€m a planning consultant. My address is PO Box 1101, Kamuela. WATANABE:Okay. TERRY:I€m Ron Terry, my address is 10 Hina Street, Hilo. BARDEN:I€m Gil Barden, I€m the owner. My address is PO Box 874, Hilo, Hawaii 96721. HIGGINS:I€m Larry Higgins, the architect, 489 Ocean View Drive, Hilo. WATANABE:Okay, Mr. Mooers, I take it you€re the representative, so you€ve received the comments and recommendations, as well as the conditions? MOOERS:Yes, we have, Mr. Chairman. WATANABE: And would you care to comment on those? 3EXHIBIT A MOOERS:On the background report and recommendation we€re in complete accordance with the Department and believe that the conditions as recommended adequately address the concerns that need to be addressed, particularly in relationship to the pond and pond management. I would like to point out that we do have in addition to the people that are table, Dr. Bob Rechtman who did the archaeology and cultural assessment for site; and Dr. Ron Terry did the botanical and pond site, so he€ll be able to talk about Army Corps issues and the biology of the ponds. So hopefully we have everybody here necessary to address the concerns that may be raised. I would like to point out that obviously the key elements of this application is the significance of this pond; and we spent considerable time discovering when the pond was created, how that property has been used since the pond was created in the late 1920s, what was taking place on the property. We have worked with the Army Corps of Engineers on what is proposed to be done with the property, and we feel very confident that we can address all the issues that you folks may have today. So if I€m not able to answer the question, I think we have people here who can. WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions of the applicant? Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Thank you. There was one thing I found a little bit confusing when I was reading about the pond. First of all, there€s a smaller pond and then there€s a larger pond, and although they are connected, yeah, there€s a difference in water salinity. And yet I understand that there€s an awful lot of sediment on the bottom which is blocking, it€s keeping them from being anchialine ponds. Is there no underground connection to the ocean, or has that sediment, is the sediment blocking connections to the ocean completely, or, and do you folks intend to remove the sediment so that the ponds can flush out naturally? Is that part of the plan? Could you give us a little bit more background on that whole issue, please. TERRY:Yes, I€d be happy to. There are a couple of questions in there. I€ll try and meet them all. I want to also make it clear that Dr. Ron England who€s not here today, he€s in Tahiti doing work from the Bishop Museum, is the one who did the pond work. He€s a specialist in aquatic biology; and Ron could probably answer your questions a lot better. But this Ron, Ron Terry, will attempt to do that. The differences in salinity probably are due to the fact that the ponds aren€t directly connected, except at a really high tide, and the sediment at the bottom as you observed. There€s a very large plug of sediment at the bottom. It was bigger before. The ponds were cleaned out under an SMA permit, which I don€t know if it was mentioned in here. It was obtained several years ago just to do that. And they took out a lot of vegetation; and from what I understand many tons, over ten tons of garbage out of the ponds. And that obviously influenced the biology, the water quality, the chemistry, the circulation. But the pond exhibits are a very rapid response to the tides. It rises and falls with the tide. It€s basically fresh water, a little bit of salinity; but it does move very quickly through the sides; and to some degree through the bottom as well, especially where the sediment hasn€t plugged it up too badly. The plan for restoration is to remove most of that sediment and make the water much clearer. Right now it has got really only one fish, mosquito fish. And before, I understand, it had snapper. Our aquatic biologist recommends that we use milk fish and mullet and not tilapia. And so the plan will include those species. But it€s going to take a lot of work getting the sediment out and also 4EXHIBIT A making sure that too many leaves don€t fall in the pond and cause the sediment to break up and algae to build up because of that. WATANABE:Follow-up? SIRACUSA:Yeah. I noticed when I was reading the aquatic biologist€s, the pond specialist report that he said that when he was kayaking he noticed that the water was very clear. And so obviously, you know, the sediment wasn€t being riled upat the time, I guess. But you hope that even so that you€ll be able to improve the water clarity by following that recommendation? And is the applicant willing to do everything that is necessary in order to restore this pond and make it really something positive for the area, rather than a mosquito breeding ground? TERRY:Well, I think I€m going to let the applicant respond to some of that. The waterclarityisrightabovethesedimentlayer.Ifyoujuststepintothepondorifanythingfalls into the pond, that clarity disappears pretty rapidly. If fish are in there, larger fish, they€re also going to decrease the water clarity under the existing sediment conditions. And now I€ll let Gil talk. BARDEN:You absolutely have our commitment to -. SIRACUSA:You have to state your name and -. BARDEN:Oh, this is Gil. WATANABE:He did previously, they all did. SIRACUSA:Oh, I€m sorry, I€m sorry. BARDEN:Okay, You absolutely have our commitment to do what needs to be done to fix the ponds or get them back in working order. We€ve hired Neri Moevao and he€s a pond specialist that has worked on the Onekahakaha Beach Park area ponds as well. And so we€re definitely committed. He has already put together a plan for us; and we€re already working with him on that. SIRACUSA:Thank you. WATANABE:Any follow-up? No? Any other questions of the applicant? Okay, I guess you may be seated then. Thank you. We have, let€s see, seven people who signed up to testify on this application, SMA application. So maybe I call up about three or four of them at a time. Mr. Patrick Kahawaiolaa, Mr. Larry Higgins I believe -. HIGGINS:No, I don€t need to -. WATANABE:So, okay. Lehuanani Waipa Ah Nee, Doug Arnott, and I€ll move onto Neri Moevao. 5EXHIBIT A MOEVAO:Neri. WATANABE:Neri, I€m sorry. So that shouldbe four then. Okay, would you all kindly raise your hands so I can swear you in, raise yourright hand that is. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. WATANABE:Thank you. Okay, why don€t we start on my right, and I believe it€s Neri. MOEVAO:Neri. WATANABE:Yeah, would you state your name and address for the record prior to your testimony, then provide your testimony, please. MOEVAO:Aloha, my name is Neri Moevao. I reside at HC2, Box 3698, and this is in Keaau,Hawaii.And,actually,I€llprettymuchshareorspeakonmypartofthecommunity connections out there in Keaukaha and related to this project. WATANABE:You may proceed. MOEVAO:You know, I€ve worked in the Keaukaha area in the last five years, mainly with the alternative learning programs for Hilo High School, for Keaukaha Elementary and for Keonepoko. And most of the subjects I deal with is, you know, fish pond restoration, cultural enrichment and community involvement. And when I was told about this project, the only thing I saw was the ponds. I really want to save those ponds. I€ve been seeing it for a long time and was kind of sadden because it was just turning into a dump site for several years; and it was just sadness. I didn€t have access to them ponds when someone else owned it. And, you know, finally I was like, oh, you know, somebody purchased this place and, you know, so I tried to find who it was just so, you know, so I can have some kind of ties to saving these ponds and restoring it. And, you know, because I have one right across the street at Onekahakaha which I worked with Mr. Keone Turalde. He has a program, a native Hawaiian program, out there. And, you know, it€s pretty close by. So I was very familiar with the environment there and very much had been meeting with people around the communities very close to this project and mainly got a lot of support from people around. They were kind of tired seeing illegal activities, people hanging out in that area, people dumping trash in that place, and just, you know, it€s not bringing in any type of appreciation to the environment around there. And it€s an opportunity for me to help and beautify this area, which has been an eyesore for a while; and that€s pretty much why I€m involved in this project. And, you know, I€d like to thank you for your time and for hearing what I have to say. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Are there any questions? Thank you. You may be seated. Mr. Patrick Kahawaiolaa. KAHAWAIOLAA:Aloha Mr. Chairman and Members of the Planning Commission, my name is Patrick Kahawaiolaa. I€m the president of the Keaukaha Community Association in Keaukaha. I€m a life-long resident of Keaukaha. I€m 63 years old. I was born there on the 6EXHIBIT A Homestead; and maybe I need to make some clarifications. The land across the street from this proposed project is land set aside by Prince Kuhio in 1920, the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act and amended in €21; and people don€t like to hear it but that€s the way it is. The Congress of the United States created the requirements of who can live there, and for me I€m happy. You need to be 50 percent the blood of the race inhabiting the islands prior to 1778 to live here; and I€m happy to say that almost 100 percent of the young men and women you see behind you can be identified as meeting that requirement, one of the requirements of that Act. So the Act was also put there so that we can rehabilitate our families. And Mr. Barden did come to the community association. He was at our last meeting. He called and naturally he was invited to come, state his case there; and I€m happy to say the people there, I believe, gave some very important input that I believe still needs to be addressed. One was traffic mitigation, how was he going to mitigate the traffic that was going to happen with these 12 more units, how was the egress and ingress from Kalanianaole, now I understand from ApapaneStreet.ApapaneStreetifyoudon€tknowisnotastreet.Twocarscannotpasswithout one getting off the side of the road. So is that now going to affect who€s going to fix it? Is curbs and gutters going to be required on that end of the street? I think Apapane was really a lane, a paper road that was put there. Because it kind of dips down where you have to go across this big, what I like to call a piece of wetland that€s connected to this pond. Onekahakaha Beach, that big area that I want to mention, and Neri mentioned they€re working with Keoni Turalde, is to re-establish that the County had given Mr. Turalde a lease and 14 acres, and he intends to do that, and it€s in connection with the pond. I would beg to differ on Dr. Ron Terry€s idea that there is no connection to the kai, the ocean, and this pond. There are a lot of fresh water springs. The water is brackish because almost directly across this property there is ponds, one that€s out under the great big banyan tree that if you were to go there at high tide it€s just as high. So water does seep across. Water seeps all across into Hawaiian Home lands. There were many ponds that were covered before County rulings said you couldn€t do that. But people just needed to cover it up so they could build a home. So I need to express that to you. There were some objections from the community. One that particularly concerned me was that, itwasrepresentedbytheownerthatoneofyourlasttestifiersatthelastCommissionmeeting mentioned that they were so happy to see that maybe there was going to be only one home built. And then the owner represented to the community that they had decided on a rezoning not for one home but they were going to do, they found out that maybe four homes could be built on that property. What disturbed myself and a great many people in the community was he represented, when I say he, Mr. Barden, represented to the community that it was the people in the Planning Department, namely Mr. Daryn Arai and the Planning Director, that said, hey, you know what, you guys can build 12. Because there was a concern about the pond, I think we all should have concerns about a pond. But I think it€s the job of people in the Planning Department, people like Mr. Barden, the private owners of land; and that€s always going to be in question, you know. As far as from a Hawaiian standpoint, the private ownership of land especially in close proximity to Hawaiian Home Lands is always going to be in question, it€s always going to be in question. And that€s stemming from something that we really had no control, not any one of you here have any control. And that 7EXHIBIT A goes back to the overthrow of the Hawaiian kingdom. So we need to make sure -. From a community standpoint I would like to raise that because Mr. Barden can testify the last thing that was heard from a kupuna who stood up in one of our meetings -- and I can say this, it surprised me because she rarely speaks at our meetings, but she got up -- she spoke in Hawaiian, told us in Hawaiian that no more development should happen along that coastline, because she was one of the kupunas in that area. And in the not too distant past when those three condominiums were built along the Keaukaha coast our kupunas then, I was as young as these young ones that are here, were told in no uncertain terms that there will be no more development along that coastline of condos. And here again we€ve got, after some 20 to 30 years, and I think Mr. Andy Levin represented the Keaukaha community, maybe even Mr. Yuen at his very young age and being a law attorney, did that -. So as a member of the Keaukaha Community, as the president here, I am here to say the Keaukaha community at this particular point in time objects to this condo coming on line. Mr. Barden did represent to all of you that the ponds, I€ve had the opportunity to have known Neri maybe a year, and his work across the street is commendable. But I have a bigger obligation, and that is to make sure that the traffic, quality of life in our communityismaintained.BecauseasI€vementionedtoyouthelasttime,wewereconcerned about how we were going to be perceived as neighbors. Because we raise dogs, some of us do have pigs, some of us do have horses running around our yards. A lot of us keep our derelict vehicles in the yard. Some people call them junks. We don€t call them junks. It€s just something that we keep it, makes good dog houses, if you have to do that. But some people believe that that€s not the way a subdivision should be. Well, we€re not a subdivision. We€re a homestead land. We€re there to rehabilitate. We raise gardens, we let kids run around, we do just to be good neighbors. So I again need to express to the Commission that we€re not truly and particularly on-line as a community, that this would be in the best interest of our community. But again we realize that this is private property and the individual may or may not have that right to do what he needs on his property to conform to the County Codes. So I am personally prepared to say that as a veteran fighting for this country the right for him to go and pursue this is fine. I just want that same rights afforded to native Hawaiians when we come forward to discuss that this may not be. WATANABE:So, so then if I could summarize. You€re not so much against the development as you are potentially, the potential that he may try to dictate how you live? KAHAWAIOLAA:Potentially, that may or may not, but things need to be resolved, yes. And I just want to address one last thing that was in the environmental statement that was provided where the Dr., the authority on ponds, mentioned that this Honohono grass and California grass is not conducive to pond ecosystem; and I must tell you it is very, very important to the pond ecosystem. It doesn€t look good but it€s very important because the pua, the fish, that you€re going to raise, need a place to hide. In a pond system California grass, Honohono grass is important. That€s why we supported, the Keaukaha community supported the County park at Kalanianaole Park, the new park that was put on by the Rotary, that they maintain California grass and Honohono grass along the edges so that the pua can survive. Thank you. WATANABE:Commissioners, any questions for the testifier? Commissioner Siracusa. 8EXHIBIT A SIRACUSA:Yes. Thank you for bringing us a fresh perspective on this. The first thing I want to say is that Ron Terry did not say there was no connection to the ocean, because he did mention that the level of the water and the pond rises and falls with the tide. So obviously -. KAHAWAIOLAA:Extremely high tide it rises -. SIRACUSA:But he, you know. -. So I think you misheard him there. And it seems that once the sediment is removed, which is sort of creating a cement blockage on thebottom that would happen even more. As far as the state of Apapane Street I can see from these photographs that it is indeed very narrow. And I€m wondering maybe the Director can answer this. Would Condition 12 then be addressing that, or whose responsibility is it to bring Apapane Street up to Code? YUEN:Well,Condition12onlyrelatestodriveways.Itdoesnotrequirethe improvement of the public streets, Apapane and Kalanianaole both being County streets. In an SMA, the property is zoned for actually a higher intensity of use than proposed by this development. In an SMA Permit we only consider traffic to a limited degree. If it interferes with, if the project would interfere with traffic to such a degree that public access to the ocean for recreational purposes or just in general would be interfered with by the project. So in this case in our view the scale of this project would not actually cause a problem with public access to the ocean. It€s a 12-unit project. You would have a few cars an hour coming in and out of the project. It€s true that Apapane Street is substandard. But that in itself, it€s not going to interfere with public access to the point where we would consider it and put a requirement in to improve Apapane Street on an SMA Permit application. SIRACUSA:Okay. One of the reasons, may I follow-up? WATANABE:Sure. SIRACUSA:One of the reasons I was asking about that also was because this is a tsunami inundation zone. And if the people who will be living in this new project have to evacuate onto Apapane Street which is so narrow, will they be able to do that safely? And I believe that is one of the things we should be looking at in an SMA application. YUEN:It€s true that natural hazards and safety of the public and of the people in the project are factors in an SMA Permit application. There are two kinds of tsunamis basically. You know, you have a locally generated tsunami which is fortunately quite rare and then you have the tsunamis generated by earthquakes along the Pacific Rim. On the Pacific Rim tsunamis, you have a great deal of warning time, several hours. And, you know, if you think of a dozen families located on this where actually I think, I can€t remember how many units, I think 6 units would take access off of Apapane and the other 6 off of Kalanianaole, it would not be a significant problem to get 6 families out of the condominium along Apapane Street, given typical warning times of a distantly generated tsunami. If you have a locally generated tsunami from a very strong earthquake the occupants would be best staying in their apartments rather than getting down to ground level and trying to driveway or run away from a tsunami that might hit 9EXHIBIT A any time in the next few minutes. They would better off staying in the upper elevations of the building. WATANABE:Care for follow-up? SIRACUSA:Yes. This is assuming that the people are at home when the tsunami warning comes through, or that they had their radio turned on and heard it, or that the Civil Defense siren is operating, which it doesn€t always. And if someone is working say, you know, and they have a job out in Kohala, it€s going to take them a while before they can get home to evacuate their stuff. But my big concern is that Apapane is so small; and it€s a County road but it€s substandard and the County doesn€t seem to have any intention of widening it for public safety there, which would include emergency evacuation. WATANABE:Okay. Are there any other questions of this testifier? Thank you. You maybeseated.IbelievethenexttestifierwouldbeLehuananiAhNee. AHNEE:Alohae,alohae,alohae,alohanonakuupunanokeiaaina.Eeiano mako napua o Hawaii Nei i. Na na ia maa kou. He keiki wale no o. Mahalo no, mahalo no, mahalo no. Uapau uano. WATANABE:Excuse me, I didn€t want to interrupt you, but you would please state your name and address for the record, please. AH NEE:Aloha. My name is Lehuanani Waipa Ah Nee; and I am a resident of 1330 Kalanianaole Avenue, across of the property suggested. Mahalo. I€m here on behalf of both my family who have resided right across the street of where this development is tentatively scheduled to take place; and we have been there for over 40 years. My grandfather was there. My parents were raised there. And myself and my siblings, as well as our ohana, was raised right across of the property. On behalf of my family and as well as on behalf of a student organization called Independent Leaders of Aloha United from the University of Hawaii at Hilo who have been working with the Keaukaha Community Association in rebuilding a kauhale project right on our kulapae area or down at our old Hawaiian Homes village right off of Puhi Bay. We have been aware about what has been going on. Unfortunately for myself being a resident at 1330 Kalanianaole for the 25 years that I have been here on this earth I have only now been able to see the faces of those who are attempting to build across of our property. And I thank them for coming, but I€m also sadden that even though we are only across the street I€m only now being able to see their faces. It would have been quite nice to have somebody that will be considered our neighbor to at least come over and see what we€re about, and who we€re about, and what we could do to help and kokua in that matter. Because I come from a line of lawaia and fishermen; and my grandfather fished that coastline from the breakwall at Palekai all the way out to Leleiwi Point, past the old Puumaile Village. And we have been grown and raised to be familiar with the currents, to be familiar with the tides, to be familiar with the weather and environment that we currently live in, to be able to sustain ourselves and give our children and our grandchildren the proper necessities in our environment to be healthy. 10EXHIBIT A And to hear that there is going to be some fishponds and there is going to be a development on these fishpond that at once in our past provided the amount of necessities our kupuna and our ancestors needed to survive, to think that right across street were families that had dwelled in that area and had used those ponds for resources who have never been tapped for our knowledge, we have never been tapped for our information, and it saddens me. Because we would have more than likely been willing to help, because it€s a part of our community, whether we are Hawaiian Homes or we are right across the street. We know about Arnotts, Arnotts is there. And although I myself may not agree with everything that has been done I do applaud him on his ability to come to the community and let us know what€s going on, and asking what do we need from him, or what can we add to the type of business that he runs. For me, on behalf of my family sitting here, I see the necessity for evolution. It is a part of a culture, it is a part of how we as native Hawaiians evolve into where we are. But at the same time there are a lot of issues that are concerning human impact and activity that is going to take place, one, concerning our tsunami zone. When we went to build out new house, there were a lot ofthingsandalotofredtapeinflooding,theamountoffeetwehadtobeawayfromtheroadin order to have a foundation, rather than going up on post and pier. There were a lot of things that we needed to educate ourselves as Hawaiians as well so that the rest of our community could understand what it takes to put a development in an area so inundated by natural compositions. So I am familiar with a lot of the things, as far as the red tape and the policies that need to take place when erecting a building in the Hawaii County jurisdiction. But I€m also concerned about my kids and where they€re going to go when this development goes up; and there is a tsunami warning and it is locally generated. Because history tells us like Halapepe or Halape when the volcano erupted or when the volcano shook that pieces of land fell and there was no time for a lot of people to make it up to higher ground; and that€s just history that€s telling us that. Should that happen to Keaukaha, which is possible, with the amount of earthquakes that we€ve received in the last month, what€s going to happen when those developers don€t know where to go? What kind of education these people, that are going to live on this property, have received about the environment that they€re going to dwell in and they€re going to live in? We as a community haven€t seen any of these palapala, we haven€t seen any of this paperwork. And although it may seem that we€re aggressive and we€re abrasive, it€s not so much. It€s because it starts to endanger our community as well, because we have -. We have to feel for these people, we€re going to want to help them. But if we don€t know that they€re coming in and we€re not forewarn about another family that we could possibly take care of when these disasters come, we can€t control the environment, but we can control a community. And all I€m asking is to look at some of the history that€s going to be surrounded in this area environmentally as well as community. Because there€s no paperwork that I€ve seen that has come towards our mailbox or towards our driveways that said, hey, we want to come onto your community, what do we do and how do we get you to help us, or will you be able to help us? 11EXHIBIT A There was no forewarning that these ponds were going to be cleaned; and there€s a lot of nutrients and there€s a lot of limu that can be cultivated in those areas to oxidize the water so that you can minimize the salinity in the water. It has been done, it€s right down the road. Seaside Restaurant does it all the time and it€s done naturally with no chemicals. There is a history of businesses and of homes that have reinvented or sort of reincorporated this lifestyle, and it is possible in doing. But it does take a community to do those things. And if the community that you€re coming into doesn€t know that you€re there, it doesn€t work if you only come a month before you come to the Planning Commission, you come to our community one month before that and say, hey, we need your help, but we€ve been doing it for three years.‚ It€s a little bit too late, I think. It€s a little bit, people will automatically get upset because now they€re in a defense, they€re in a defense because you encroached on their environment. You changed it, and then now you€re asking for help. And although, I€m not here to say that we€re not willing to help. It€s that we could have helped a longtimeagobeforeyouchangedtheenvironment.AndlikeIsayitsaddensmethatIhaven€t seen any of these faces, and I only live across the street, and I€ve been there for 25 years from the day I was born. I€m aware that the brother here is of Polynesian descent, I believe? MOEVAO:Yes. AH NEE:And he€s from American Samoa? MOEVAO:Yes. AH NEE:Talofa, Malo. There€s nothing wrong with introducing our Polynesian brothers and sisters into our community. But what does that message as a development, if people are trying to come in to develop, what does that say when they need to grab somebody from another Polynesian island about our people that have been able to restore their ponds and their fishing areas? There€s at least five people on the Kalanianaole Avenue that have rebuilt their fishponds in their communities, that have been a part of that coastline, that have reaped the benefits of taking care of the environment. They could have likely benefited this organization in this development project because they understood the salinity and they understood what the importance of the sediments on the very bottom of those ponds meant to the alaeula, or what it meant to the people and what we used it for, in our gardens as nutrients, and what we could use with it if you should dredge it and take it out. It seems very common sense that the people that have been in the community would know most likely what to do with the property in their community. Now we didn€t have a choice when Prince Jonah Kuhio Kalanianaole went to Washington, D. C., to receive the Hawaiian Home Commissions Act of 1920. We didn€t have a choice in the lands in which the United States government decided what pockets of land areas were they going to give back to the Hawaiians. What we did as native Hawaiians was take what we could get and develop from it and survive. And we could have done the same with this program, this organization. We could have done the same. It€s really hard to sit here and know that there€s 12EXHIBIT A youth behind me that are going to be affected, directly affected, by the changes that happen in the environment, because they are the next generation. And although statements in our community meetings have been said that they€re going to take the youth from our community to help clean out these ponds and get it back and restore it to where it once was a thriving environment, what came after that was what appalled me as a Native Hawaiian, but also as an educated Native Hawaiian, as a student of the University of Hawaii at Hilo -- because they were going to get the students and the youth from our community to help them restore the ponds. But when the families come in and they move into their dwellings, our students and our youth will not have access to those ponds. Yet it was their mahi, it was their work and their paahana, that created those ponds so that that foundation for those homes that those families are living in are going to be paa and are going to be livable. It€s not super science, I don€t think. LikeIsaid,forme,Iwasrightacrossthestreetfor25yearsandInotoncehaveseenanyone come across and just ask what can you do to help us. Mahalo. WATANABE:Is that is? AH NEE:Yes. WATANABE:Okay, Commissioner Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Couple of questions. AH NEE:Sure. SIRACUSA:One is you€ve, I read in some of the testimony that we got here that those ponds were used for a long time, you know, like there was a lot of garbage dumped in there, and there were a lot of druggies doing their things around there. And I was just wondering if living right across the street if you had ever seen fit to doing anything about that? AH NEE:Honestly, for 25 years I have never seen anyone other than maybe a few car accidents that happened on that turn that have actually impacted that environment across the street. I can assure you 9 out of 10 times that any drug activity that has occurred or any illegal activity that has occurred is probably not from the people from Keaukaha. SIRACUSA:I wasn€t saying that it was from the people from there. I was just wondering, you know -- because I had seen a whole lot of testimony that there was a lot of garbage, and we were told that a lot of it had been hauled out a couple of years back -- if you had seen anybody doing that sort of thing since you are living right across the street. AH NEE:To my knowledge, no. SIRACUSA:Okay. My second question is that you were talking a lot about Mr. Barden, the developer, and lamenting that he had not come to your community a lot earlier and brought you into the loop to basically tap your knowledge about the area. However if this passes 13EXHIBIT A then it won€t be Mr. Barden anymore, it will be all these new people, whoever moves into these homes. And I hope that you would not punish them for what you feel, you know, was the developer€s wrong way of moving into a community. It seems to me that when those new people move in, if this passes, that it would be the people who live there that you should make the outreach to them and say okay, you know, like welcome to our community, we would like to introduce you to us, your neighbors, and who we are and how we can help you and educate you about what to do during a tsunami, how to, you know, how to live with these ponds, and all that sort of things, rather than expect those new people to go to you. Because they€d be feeling a little, you know, strange maybe coming into a new community, wouldn€t know who to go out to. But you would know who to go out to, them, because you would know where that parcel is and where those people are located. So I€m just hoping that you would not, you would be looking towards the future, not just constantly back on what they should have done, what they didn€t do and how you feel that you might have been left out of the process. Because it€s up to you not to be left out of the process. You came out here today to share with us your manao and you can continuetodothat,notonlywiththedeveloperbutwiththenewpeoplewhomaymoveonto that property. WOODWARD:Mr. Chair? WATANABE:Yes, Commissioner Woodward. WOODWARD:Well, I just have a question because you have talked quite a bit, both you and Patrick, about this fishpond. My understanding from the reading I€ve done is that this was not a native Hawaiian fishpond. It was built as a commercial fishpond by a Portuguese in the 1920s; and that in the 1960s the tsunami destroyed the homes; and the place has been going into a continuous state of decline since that time. So it would seem to me to be to your advantage to have somebody who€d want to come in and clean this up. We€ve gotten numerous testimonies about rat infestations, and drug use, and illegal activity, and it€s overgrown with weeds. So it doesn€t sound to me like this is something that is a part of ancient Hawaiian heritage. This is something that was built in the 1920s, basically destroyed in 1960s, and it has been going downhill ever since. Is that right? AH NEE:I honestly don€t believe that. Prior to the 1920s we as Hawaiians have evolved in this environment. And to say that we, just because records show that it was done by a Portuguese does not mean that it wasn€t there prior to him recording it. We come from an oration culture and our culture knowledge is passed on through oration. We haven€t written anything until the missionaries got here. So in order for us to have records, you would have to assume that our culture prior to 1778 has been able to write down every piece of information that we have ever acquired; and I think that isn€t true. That whole coastline is filled with fishponds, undeveloped, some developed, some restored. What you see in writing, although it says something in writing, it doesn€t mean that something prior to that didn€t exist. So to think that somebody as a Portuguese man came in and just cleared the land and saw water coming into a piece of property and said I€m going to build a fishpond doesn€t say that that environment there particularly didn€t thrive once before, maybe 100 years prior to that. What you only have is what you have on record. WOODWARD:Okay, thank you. 14EXHIBIT A WATANABE:Is that it? AH NEE:Thank you. WATANABE:Okay, thank you. We have any other questions of this testifier? Okay, you may be -. DOMINGO:Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman? WATANABE:Yes. DOMINGO:You know, I€m sorry that there was no prior discussion or palapala as you indicated; and I think in any project I think that€s very important. I€ve gone through that experience many, many years ago. When I find that there is that kind of so-called discussion or palapala, it helps for the cause of both sides; and that way, you know, as time evolves both development and the community get involved into a unit that would exist harmoniously. But I don€t think that€s totally done with already. It can still happen. And I€m sure if, the indication is thatyoufolkswantthattohappen.AndI€msureastheconsultantsitsthereandifheseesan opportunity for that to happen I€m sure he€ll grasp that. Perhaps that has been an oversight on their part and they never realized that, that it might be a benefit to them. Because, you know, in a development of a community and looking at all sorts of developments in the past, there are many, many ways that the developers would approach their development. It€s their prerogative. It€s not that we can tell them how to do it or not. But I think in my whole experience I find it that when the developers come in and seek out, now this is the way I€ve seen it before, seek out the elderly in the community and seek out those who are in the authority and who are respected and sit down with them, then things can go along much easier. But, you know, it can still happen, it can still happen. Please don€t close the door on that. It can still happen. As for me, personally, what I see is an opportunity for a place to be developed; and with only 12 units, mind you, only 12 units. But with a zoning that€s in place there, that can be multiplied by five times and increase the density. And I€m sure you living across this potential development would rather see this one take place rather than have 60 units all lined up with no innovative kind of development scenarios. What I see here is something that can complement the area, and most important thing is to see this fishpond revitalized and become alive and vibrant once more. And the opportunities that it will present to the youth as they participate in cleaning up and developing the place, what an experience for them, in the future, for them to appreciate more for what€s there in Keaukaha and appreciate the experience that they€ll be having. And that as they grow up in their adult years, they€ll reflect back and treasure all that. So, you know, I think this proposal is a good proposal and I certainly would like to see it go through. WATANABE:Okay, thank you. You may be seated. You know, we were planning to break for lunch at 11:45 and actually we€ve exceeded that. But I have, I see five more people to testify, and I might be little late in this, but I would hope that the remaining testifiers could contain their testimony and be as brief and as concise as possible so we can break for lunch because I promised the other people that we€d reconvene at about 1:30; and if we proceed on this 15EXHIBIT A basis we may not break till 1:30. So with that, I believe, Doug Arnott you€re our next testifier. Would you state your name and address for the record, please. ARNOTT:My name is Doug Arnott at 98 Apapane which is the nearest next door neighbor to the subject property. And, first of all, I think I can clarify some of the things that have been said here today. One is that for, as its next door neighbor for 17 years I even considered buying it myself at one time and hiked around in inside of it, which was very difficult at that time and pretty extensively got to know how it works. I think actually to answer Rene Siracusa€s questions about this pond I think the nearest way that this pond works could be typified by how Ken€s House of Pancakes parking lot works; and most of you are aware of that being flooded during certain periods of high tide combined with rainfall. The ponds on this property are actually fed by springs, so there is a constant supply of fresh water going into the pond. What happen is when the salt water high tide intrudes from the sea it blocks that egress of that water and the water rises, and then when the tide goes down it leaves. There is some salinity.Buteverybodyneedstobeawarealsothatduringnormalhightradewindcombined with very high spring tide type of activity, this property floods with salt water. So any type of fresh water fish or things that are introduced to this pond will be killed by pure salt water, in a fairly regular cycle of natural occurrences. And this is something that I€m sure the developers are aware of. Also, comments about various things that I€ve heard, I mean, while it is a condominium, a condominium is a technical term. These are a bunch of low-rise places sitting on top of platforms. We have an example of this already on Lihikai Street, on traffic. Again, mentioning the question of Ms. Siracusas, we have this, Apapane is frequently used because we have frequent accidents along the corridor in front of this, of Kalanianaole, very frequent accidents, where the entire traffic in both directions have to go along Apapane Road and by people pulling off and being cooperative and a bit of hi cuz‚ and, you know, stop and have a bit of a chat along the way. We manage to direct the entire traffic of Kalanianaola Highway quite successfully with a little bit of scraping along Apapane. So this is not a problem with getting 12 or 6 residents in and out. In fact, I would hazard to say that if we could stop the drug trafficking at the end of Lihikai Street, we will have net, less net traffic after this operation than we have now, which is something somebody might want to look into. So we hit the accidents. The other thing is this has been a real pain for us. I mean we run a hotel operation and we have to have our, facing that property literally covered with rat bait. I mean it is a pestilence. It€s now coqui frog. We have to, in fact, put air conditioning in many of our units facing that direction because the guests from other places can€t stand the volume of coqui frogs. So to us this is a very welcomed development. And I very rarely have any argument with the Keaukahaka Community. And Patrick I think they€re all great people. I think we tried deliberately to hire from Keaukaha and have been very successful with it. We€re definitely a member of their community. And I think that this is a very positive step. When the neighbors come in, as you mentioned, they will be subject to us, we€re very much a part of the ohana. When we have problems we go to Paul Neves for Hooponopono. This is how we handle things around there. I think these people when they come under the influence of the neighborhood are going to be great neighbors and the pond will surely be opened up for the kids, the delightful kids that we have all around there. And so I see this as a very, very positive step. 16EXHIBIT A It€s clearing a pestilence. I don€t think that much activity was noticed from across the highway because the druggies don€t come in on Kalanianaole with the police patrol. They come in on Apapane and park there and dump their rubbish and do their things in this property. So that€s why it may not have been noticed from across the highway. I am a very close neighbor of the people across the highway from us in Hawaiian Home Lands. I have not noticed any problems with dogs, pigs, chickens, or anything else there. I have no guest complaints about it. I think they€re all excellent neighbors; and I think we all get along just fine. So I really look at this as a highly positive development; and I think that some of the things that have been brought up are very much things that we as a community can manage to get together on after this development goes in. Also, on the question of these people not coming and meeting everybody, I think, you know under this SMA and all of these different things that you have to go through, I mean it€s kind of pointless to go and meet the neighbors. If this meeting doesn€t approve this, these people are history,they€regone.Sonowisthetimeifyouguysapproveitforthemtocomearoundand start meeting everybody because they€ve got some neighbors to meet. But, I mean, up until this is approved or disapproved at this meeting, they€re just an applicant. Thank you. WATANABE:Thank you. Any questions for this testifier? None, thank you. Then I€ll take the liberty of calling up the remaining four testifiers. I have Richard Gorman, Denise Nakanishi, Kale Gumapac, Lehua Veincent. So those should be the last four that have signed up. Would you all raise your right hand so I can swear you in. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth now before the Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. WATANABE:Okay. Then why don€t we again start on my right. Would you state your name and address for the record and begin with your testimony. GORMAN:My name is Richard Gorman. My address is 1317, Pahoa. I am the one that cleared the land. I was hired originally to clear the land about two years ago. At the time I did not know, you had me and the machete just to even enter. You couldn€t even see the ponds, very hard to. I mean I don€t want to offend anybody. SIRACUSA:Excuse me, could you speak into the mike, please. GORMAN:Certainly. I didn€t want to offend anybody. But when I started this project I didn€t realize how big it was going to be. It was just I was basically going in and just clear it so we could see what was there. It€s like 4  months I worked there. And as I went along, it got bigger and bigger and there were many people, locals, that would walk by and a lot of young kids and all. And actually during that 4  months I hired about six of them to help the 53 coconut trees that are there. One of the locals was the one that trimmed them. And so we did, you know, I did not go and meet the people around. Mr. Arnott, I did get a chance to talk with him. He offered his power and water. But we tried to do it in a sensitive way; and it is a beautiful piece of property, had a lot of respect that was put into clearing it. And that€s what I just wanted to tell you. 17EXHIBIT A WATANABE:Thank you. Do we have any questions of Mr. Gorman? SIRACUSA:Yes, just one. WATANABE:Commissioner. SIRACUSA:Thank you. When you were clearing did you notice a lot of rubbish in and around the pond? GORMAN:The rubbish was mostly up, off the main road and it looked like, cause there€s a slab up there and people were just basically backing in and dumping it in this area. There was so much growth. At the beginning they never knew there was rubbish until we starting the clearing the growth. There was refrigerators and I pulled a few of them out. Actually, out of one of the ponds, appliance, all, I mean, just incredible the debris. I mean there wasprobablycloseto10tonsthatwehauledoutoftherethatIdid. SIRACUSA:Follow-up? WATANABE:Follow-up. SIRACUSA:Yeah,sothiswasoffofApapaneSteet? GORMAN:No, off of Kalanianaole. SIRACUSA:Off Kalanianaole. Okay, so it -. GORMAN:On the Apapane there was debris that was refrigerators that were thrown in, and there was a lot of small items, people would just go by and throw their trash. In those bags there was clothing, there was like backpacks, all kinds of stuff. There was actually stolen, looks like there were some things that were stolen and tossed around in there, too. We saw the wrappers and stuff on them. But, but basically the main was on the top side. SIRACUSA:Thank you. GORMAN:You€re welcome. WATANABE:Any other questions? Thank you. Okay, Denise, yes. Would you state your name and address, please. NAKANISHI:Denise Nakanishi, PO Box 10070, Hilo, Hawaii 96721. Okay, I just have worked with this developer for a while. I am a realtor. I€ve been here for a very long time. My children are Hawaiian, they€re related to most of Keaukaha. But, you know, the things I liked about this developer, and I get a chance to work with several of them, is he€s a local guy, he lives here. He€s not somebody in the mainland coming to develop projects here. And the other thing is, you know, he€s very socially conscious, and I, you know, I appreciate that. And I like the idea that he€s limiting the size of the development. I mean he could have done a lot more, he 18EXHIBIT A could have done 60 units; and he didn€t do that. And he kept up like a very local; and I love that. It€s just a beautiful project, so -. And that€s what I wanted to say. WATANABE:Thank you. Any questions of the testifier? Seeing none, you may be seated. You must be Kale? GUMAPAC:Kale. WATANABE:Kale, I€m sorry. GUMAPAC:My name is Kale Gumapac and with the Kanaka Council; and my address is HC 2, Box 9607, Puna. The Kanaka Council opposes this development. Many things have been said about the cultural assessments that I listened to. And it€s very obvious that the cultural assessment wasn€t done right. The cultural assessment never went to the Hawaiian community, tospeaktotheHawaiianCommunitytogettheirmanao.AnditbothersmewhenIseethe developers here sitting at this table without any kanaka sitting with them. It bothers me. And it also bothers me when they start to throw the terminology around about the cultural assessment. What cultural assessments have they done? Did they do the cultural assessment of the plant? Did they do the cultural assessment of the pond? But who does the cultural assessment of the Hawaiian, of the kanaka and the impact that this development is going to have on the kanaka community? You have heard from this young kanaka wahine who has given her manao and all of the things that have happened, especially the bypass and not even coming to them to talk story and to get their manao as to how they feel. Secondly, in the restoration of the pond, the restoration of the pond, I feel that the County should take, you know the percentage that they use to go buy land so that they can preserve land, this area needs to be preserved. This shouldn€t be developed because who is using the area? It€s our kanaka community especially from Keaukaha. We know that along Keaukaha whenever people have been allowed to build homes, as well as condominiums along there, they have literally destroyed a lot of the aquifer and the waters coming up feeding into these ponds. Many years ago I was involved in the restoration of Waiuli. These were the ponds down at Richardson€s Ocean Park. And I got together the community and we worked down for a year and a half to clear out all of the ponds. And one of the things that we found was that there€s a brown house right along Kalanianaole just on the corner of Richardson€s Ocean Park; and just prior to that they came in and they bulldozed to cover it up so that they can do backfill. And you know what they backfilled? They backfilled all of the fresh water springs that comes in to feed the ponds. Nobody said anything about that; and it killed the ponds in Waiuli. So what is going to happen when these developers come in and they put all of their concrete piers that€s supposed to be raised above the water, 18 feet, so that supposedly they€re going to be protected by the tidal wave? Now that€s one big joke. Because we know what happens, we know the destruction that has taken place. The second joke is to pretend that oh, there€s only going to be 12 families that€s going to need to evacuate the area. That don€t count everybody else, all the issues taking place from other people that live all the way down to Kahakai, and along Nene Street, and along all of that area that€s going feed into the evacuation route. And you add 12 more families, what, 12 more families no 19EXHIBIT A count? That€s not going to be too much of a devastation for the 12 families? I€m listening to your manao, I€m listening to all the excuses that you guys are making, and this is crazy. We need to protect these areas, we need to protect these lands; and, yes, there has been, you know, opala that has been thrown there. But I blame the County. It€s the County€s responsibility to make sure that these things don€t happen. We need to use that money to buy that land so that that land can no longer have any more development. There was a moratorium that was placed along Keaukaha coastline because of what happened with the condominiums that took place. After that last condominium was built, which was Kahakai, there was supposed to be no more development going on. The Kanaka Council is taking that position. And as far as the cultural preservation assessment, the cultural preservation assessment by the developer has got to be done correctly. And at this point in time, it has not been done correctly. Mahalo. WATANABE:Arethereanyquestionsofthetestifier? SIRACUSA:Yes.Isawinreadingthroughthedocumentsthattherewasonlyone kupuna whose input was taken about the history of the ponds, and he was the one who mentioned about a Mr. Pedro or Petro, the Portuguese who had built the pond. He said that before that it was a swamp. So there obviously was water coming in and he just dug it out and reinforced it. GUMAPAC:Yeah, can I address that? Can I address that? Because -. SIRACUSA:Yeah, I wanted you to address that. GUMAPAC:Yes. My mother and her sister were born and raised there. Along Onekahaka was our ohana land; and my mother and her sister prior to 1920, prior to this Portuguese guy coming, used to fish in that pond; and the reeds that they used that grows in that pond, they used to use that in order to carry the fish after they caught the fish. And this was way prior to 1920. And it€s not unusual that one Portuguese man or whoever it is comes along to clear that area so that they can use that as a fishpond. But that fishpond existed. It existed way before all the other Hawaiians came. And so it was there. You know, the only problem is that historically whoever put that down on the palapala said that this was a Portuguese man that did this, haole. The Hawaiians was here, the kanaka was here, and we€ve always been there and we continue to be there. WATANABE:Follow-up? SIRACUSA:Please. Let me get my thoughts together a second. There was another point that was made and I think it€s slipping out of a sea of brain right now. But, I guess I€m going to have to come back to it. I had and it slidded away. WATANABE:Okay. It doesn€t seem like we have other questions so thank you. VEINCENT:Lehua Veincent, 30 Pilipaa, Hilo, Hawaii. Aloha kkouenknakao kia papalakai e no ka pono o n keiki, n ohana, ke kaiaulu o Keaukaha n hoi. My family hasbeenoneofthefirstfamiliesinKeaukaha,theNalimu-Kahaholupuafamily.And,you 20EXHIBIT A know, growing up in Keaukaha there€s so much that I have learned. And I€ve been very fortunate as an adult, you know, I€ve taught at Keaukaha School in the 1980s, in the 1990s, up until the year 2000. And I founded Ke Ana Laahana Public Charter School, which is across the highway from the Yacht Club; and I€m currently sitting as principal of Keaukaha Elementary School. And, you know, even though somebody testified about Keaukaha School working with the ponds, you know, there€s no affiliation whatsoever with our school and anybody who is working with the ponds at this. But, I think, you know, as I sit here, because the 23 students that are sitting behind me, you know, it€s kind of hard to sit back and be hypocritical and not say anything about the importance of what I try to teach our children, yeah, about the importance of geneaology, history and place. And I think that, you know, when I take my elementary students and we take the tour, it€s because I want them to be very secure about the knowledge, about the th area that they come from. I have 260 students at my school, kindergarten to 6 grade. Ke Ana thth Laahana has about 80 students, 7 through 12 grade. Ka Umeke Kaeo, who is a charter school, Hawaiian language emersion, who is on my campus at Keaukaha School service about 140 students. And so these students are the ones that actually we expect them to carry on the traditions and the knowledge and the akamainess of our entire community, yeah. And so when I take my students and talk about from Palekai all the way to Leleiwi, and we go down to where the development is being proposed and talk about Kokoiki, and we know it as Drangas, and to Keonekahakaha as well as the Keokea Ponds which is right between there, you know, these are the things that I want my children to know. I think that the uniqueness of our Keaukahaka community, there€s only one way in one way out. There€s not that many Hawaiian communities that can actually say that. And I think the uniqueness within that also proves that, you know, for us as a community we€re very close, yeah. Uncle Pat, Aunty Luana, all the organizations that the Keaukaha School has dealt with is because of the pono of our children and the continuance of oursurvival,especiallyasaschoolthathasstartedtheresince1930. SoasIteachourchildrenabouttheplacesandaboutthehistory,Ithinkthequestioniswhenis enough enough? And I think that€s the kind of question we need to start taking a look at. You know, I currently live, we no longer in Keaukaha, we were kind of displaced back in the 1960s because they had to build the little thing called the airport strip in Keaukaha and so we had to move to Panaewa where we currently live. I have never lived outside of Hawaiian Home Lands. But one of the County Council people when we testified because they wanted to build, you have the KTA, Ginger Patch, and you have Block Busters, and then that area which is kind of like, you know, grassy area now, and, you know, one of the County Councilman said just because you have three corners taken by buildings does not mean that you have to have all four corners taken by buildings. And we currently live, and we still have that, that Hoio growing in the bushes there. And I think for us in Keaukaha, for me, my biggest thing is making sure that our future generations are able to take a look at it, and see it for how it is, and how it was. You know, I also have a concern in terms of the inundation and the tsunami evacuation. I€m responsible for all three schools, yeah. And when we talk about walking up Baker Avenue to the evacuation gate and making sure that, -. You know, I work with Civil Defense, and the Police Department and the Fire Department, everybody else, including the Transportation. I want to make sure that all of my 260 kids, plus the 80 kids from Ke Ana Laahana, plus the 140 kids, and knowing that we also have 450 plus households within only the community of Keaukaha, that we make it through that small gate and we cross, and we make it alive, yeah. And whether or not we relive that, you know local generator or whatever, it is still interesting to kind of know that even 21EXHIBIT A if it€s a tsunami that maybe has been generated in Halepe actions, yeah, it is still going to take some time for all of this to happen and to cross the evacuation route. So even though we€re talking about 12, I think, again, going back to the question, when is enough enough. And I think I€m always going to be concerned with things like that, yeah. And I think for me as a principal of a school that is very tied to the culture of our community yeah, I€m always concerned with things like that. And I think if you take a look at some of, you know, Mr. Arnott has always offered his kokua, Sharon at Pacific Aquaculture Center, that€s where we do a lot of our educational ties. But we want to make sure that as things are developed, yeah, should they be developed, you know, we want to make sure that the integrity is not compromised in terms of who we are and where we come from as a community. Mahalo nui. WATANABE:Thank you. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes,it€smeagain.Irememberedmyquestionand,theoneIforgot,and possibly you know the answer. If not, I will ask the previous testifier to come up. The previous testifier mentioned a development moratorium along Kalanianaole, and you say that you€re educating the children about the history and everything of the area. And so I€m wondering if you know anything about that. VINCEINTYou know, when we were growing up, and I malaho my own parents for that, you know, because we are a fishing family. You know, Uncle Pat can testify to it because my grandmother helped to raise him as well. And I think when we take a look at some of the things, I€m more concerned with those places such as Kokoiki, which is Strangas, which is one of the few places that, you know, at one time it was known as the Hukilau place; and it€s right in that area, and it€s connected to Onekahakaha. But I think when you take a look at places like those kinds of things, things that, you know, before you could pick limu kohu and no longer pick limu kohu, and for whatever reason, I think the development is part of the reason, if anything else. But I think as we kind of take a look at the development along the sea coast and the impact that it has on the environment, especially the ocean environment, you know -. I don€t want to not tell the stories, yeah. I do not want to tell what has happened. And I think because of what the development is happening, I think one day those stories are not going to be told anymore. And I think that€s my biggest concern. SIRACUSA:I think you misunderstood my question and so, yes, I will want to ask. I was talking about an official position that the County adopted as a moratorium, if you knew of that. And so may I direct my question to the previous testifier. GUMAPAC:I can address that question. After Hale Kahakai and Hale Moana were built, there was a big backlash with the County. Because what happened was that the Kanaka community all they saw was that these developers were looking to develop Keaukaha; and included in that development was supposed to be Richardson€s Ocean Park; and right across Richardson€s Ocean Park they were proposing a huge hotel development. And so because of this backlash there was a huge, huge protest coming from the kanaka community as well as from the non-kanaka community because of all of the desecration and the destruction of the ocean land. And so the County Council at that time said that they would put together a moratorium, place a moratorium, permanent moratorium, on any further development on any condominiums. And so 22EXHIBIT A my question to you as a Planning Commission did you guys go do your homework? You guys better go check on this moratorium because this development might be illegal. The moratorium came back in the early 70s right after that last condominium project was built. SIRACUSA:Okay. We did not have anything in our packet about such a moratorium. And I would like to ask the Director, the Planning Director, if in his research on the background report he came up with anything where the County Council has passed this permanent development moratorium? GUMAPAC:This is how Richardson€s Ocean Park was acquired as a result of this moratorium, because the developers at that time were going to develop Richardson€s Ocean Park and the property across of that. And when the County put the moratorium on it, the developers forced the purchase of that property by the County; and that€s how the County acquired that property as a County Park. SIRACUSA:Mr. Yuen? YUEN:There was a, well, in the early 1970s a lot of Keaukaha was zoned Resort, includingtheareasaround4-MilesandRichardson.Therewasacommunityoppositiontothat and as a result of that the County appropriated, the County bought Richardson€s Ocean Park and they expanded the James Kealoha Park at 4-Miles to include the pond area which was called Carlsmiths back then. And so the County purchased that area, same time the County downzoned some of the Resort zoned areas in Keaukaha. The moratorium ended at the time of the downzone. Now, however, this area around here which you€re seeing the purple color on the map there was not affected by that rezoning and is still zoned Resort. WATANABE:Okay, Mr. Woodward. WOODWARD:Yeah, I have a question for either of you gentlemen. Actually, it seems to me that they€re asking for a Special Management Area Permit which just basically means we€re supposed to review and make sure this isn€t going to have an adverse effect on the environment. They€ve already been zoned for what they are asking to do. In fact, they have the ability from their zoning to put 60 units there. And it seems to me that they€ve actually come up and been fairly good neighbors to say, well, we€re only going to build 12 units and we€re going to clean up the pond. It seems to me, too, from what I€ve learned that this pond, despite what you say about destruction and degradation, has been in the state of destruction and degradation since 1960 and nobody has really done anything about it. It€s just been overgrown. In fact, when the man went in to clear it he didn€t know there was a pond there cause you couldn€t see it. He had to get in there with a machete. So it would seem to me that these people have actually planned a development that is going to improve the situation in your neighborhood rather than degrade it; and they have opted to go with a much smaller number of units than they could legally. GUMAPAC:That rationale is kind of different for me, cause, you know, to tell a kanaka that let€s go build this development in order to save the land no make sense, because what you should be doing is saving the land period. You don€t need to put up a building to save the land. The responsibility falls upon the County. This doesn€t fall upon the people that€s over there. And so it€s just like telling us, well, we€re going to save the koa forest but before we save the koa 23EXHIBIT A forest we€ve got to cut the koa so that we can weed out all the waiwi trees. That doesn€t make sense that you€re going to put up a building that should be placed in Conservation or a property that should be conserved and put it into Conservation to be enjoyed by all of the community. WATANABE:You want to follow-up? WOODWARD: Just a brief follow-up. This placehas basically lied fallow for 47 years. The kanaka has not done anything to improve the situation. The County, the government can€t do everything. And if no development occurs it€s going to lie fallow for another 47 years. GUMAPAC:Well, then the fault shouldfall upon the private owner. Let the private owner clean up the mess. If they€re going to buy the property, same thing as if you had an owner that bought a contaminated property, okay, and there was contamination, thatowner would be responsible to do all of the soil remediation on that property. So why aren€t you making the privateownersresponsibletodothatandnotputuponebuilding. WATANABE:Mr.Kale,Igetyourdrift,butIthinkwehavereachedanimpasses because really what you€re speaking of you€re coming from the old Hawaiian ways where nobody had property ownership -. GUMAPAC:No, this isn€t the old Hawaiian way. This is the new Hawaiian way and the Hawaiians are finally stepping up and saying so. WATANABE:Yeah, okay. Thank you for your comments. VINCEINT:Mr. Chairman, just one more. And I think the perspective is very different, even for me as an educator. And a person who has been in the education system for 20 years I think for us it€s always making sure that, you know, we do have the access and we do have the ability to take a look at what currently is there. And we want our children to be able to gain that knowledge and have that knowledge for future generations. And by putting up buildings there is sometimes that block -. WATANABE:That barrier, yes. VINCEINT:That barrier; and that€s my -. WATANABE:Potentially, potentially though you may have that access yet. VINCEINT:Right. Yeah, potentially; but we still need to see that. Mahalo nui. WATANABE:Yeah, okay, thank you. Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yes. I just wanted to say that in terms of the County purchasing, the idea that was brought forward about the County could purchase the land to preserve it, and that€s the natural resources and open space committee or commission that is now taking nominations of parcels. And so the proper venue is not the Planning Commission for that sort of thing. It would 24EXHIBIT A be that Commission, and then it goes to the County Council. The County Council is the one that determines which of those nominated parcels get purchased. And it would also be the County Council that would determine if they want to put a moratorium along Kalanianaole. That€s not our decision to make here. WATANABE:Point well taken. So may I? SIRACUSA:Yes. WATANABE:I think in light of all the testimony that we have, both positive and negative, I€d like to call up the applicants so potentially you all can make your own comments to what has transpired and -. I take it that you€re attempting to be a good neighbor, so I think maybe there was some oversight in how this all transpired and potentially you could add to that. MOOERS:Thankyou,Mr.Chairman.Theveryextensivetestimony,Idon€twantto go through every single item again. I think in general as I pointed out earlier that there is a great concern about the ponds and the treatment of the ponds. And we believe very strongly that the reviews done both technically and historically are accurate. We believe the conditions that have been applied as far as cleaning up and preserving the ponds in conjunction with the landscaping plan to be removed by the Director addresses those concerns. The issues as far as tsunami zone, I think Condition 4 which requires the structures to be 18 feet, which is 3 feet higher than what the FIRM designation is, and the Emergency Response Plan in Condition 13 as far as evacuation addresses those issues. I think there€s a clear indication that over the past few decades that the ponds have been in disrepair; and I don€t think there€s any question that the improvement of the ponds will occur as a condition of this permit. I would say that it would be an inaccurate statement to say that this developer has not reached out to the community. I would say it was probably an error not to contact the neighbor across the street. But we have hired professionals and the owner himself has made many efforts to work with people in the community, both individuals and groups. We€ve made every effort to contact kupuna in the area that had knowledge of the site and could guide us in that direction. I guess you can never reach everybody, but it would be inaccurate to say that an effort was not made. WATANABE:Okay, but I would assume then that by Mr. Arnott€s testimony that you all are aware that potentially you can work very closely with the community and have a good relationship so -. MOOERS:Very much so. WATANABE:It doesn€t have to end in a negative way, hopefully. BARDEN:Absolutely. Can I speak one second? WATANABE:Sure. BARDEN:Basically this is going to be my private residence as well. I€m going to live in one of these units. At the same time I did fail in going out and getting all the community 25EXHIBIT A involved at this point. And as Mr. Arnott stated we have to go through a very complex system, through the Army Corps of Engineers, dealing with these ponds to make sure that we€re taking care of these ponds through the Federal regulations. So I€ve been dealing with that for the last 8 months; and so without that approval, or that process, we didn€t feel it was adequate at that time to really get people too excited over nothing. So -. WATANABE:Thank you. Do any of the Commissioners have any -? Yes, Ms. Siracusa. SIRACUSA:Yes. One of the concerns of the community is that once the homes are built the children will not have access to those ponds. Would you address that, please. BARDEN:Absolutely. We€ve talked about that and that€s one of the points that Neri, our consultant brought up as well. The difficulty with that is that there€s going to be an HOA that€s going to be responsible for managing the grounds; and with the point of bringing in childrenintotheproperty,thenyouhavealiability;andthat€skindofaconcernthattheHOA would have to agree to. As far as the private owners people inviting people or guests over, that€s a stipulation of the HOA agreement that we build at that time. The idea behind this development is not to come in and put up big walls and block out the rest of the community. As you can see from our design and the density that we definitely want to make something that fits into the community as well as, you know, other people maybe in Keaukaha want to move into these units as well. So -. SIRACUSA:What is that acronym, HOA? WATANABE:Homeowners Association, they€re concerned recently about liability. BARDEN:So if a child were to fall into the pond and go unconscious or something or something or drown, then basically the landowner would be responsible; and I don€t know how it works with the State or County lands, so -. HIGGINS:Other than the County acquiring the land, the homeowners€ association comprised of the residents of this site is the best way, I think to have perpetual maintenance of the property. Four individual lots wouldn€t do it because everybody points to his problem. But 23 people that constitute a homeowners association perpetually will be able to maintain these ponds. WATANABE:I think though in that same vein the community is more concerned about whether there are actually fences going up. And it doesn€t sound like that€s what you€re proposing. Do we have any other questions of the applicant? DOMINGO:Mr. Chairman? WATANABE:Yes. DOMINGO:It has been mentioned that on different occasions Apapane Street has been used as a bypass because of some accident or whatever, incidence preventing access on Kalanianaole Highway. How long is Apapane Street? What€s the length of that street? 26EXHIBIT A BARDEN:My guess it€s roughly about a quarter of a mile. That€s be, if that long. DOMINGO:I was just concerned about that. Thank you. BARDEN:There€s very little traffic on that road. Usually it€s people that probably shouldn€t be in that neighborhood, from what I€ve seen. DOMINGO:Well, the only thing is when the main high is closed because of some accident, it€s being used as a bypass. Is that a County roadway? MOOERS:Yes, that€s a County road. DOMINGO:Okay. WATANABE:Mr. Rho? RHO:I have a question about parking. Is there parking on that Apane way? From the pictures it€s like nobody parks there or very few. BARDEN:No, all the parking is actually on the subject property. So -. RHO:I€m talking about just existing parking. Anybody park on that street? TERRY:It€s possible to park on the side and when we go in to do our environmental surveys we do park on the side. You have to have a caution though. There€s somecoconuttreesthathangoverandthey€renottrimmedso-. RHO:Butgenerallynobodyparksonthatstreet? TERRY:Generally,no. RHO:Evenontheweekends? TERRY:I€ve never seen anybody parked there while I€m there. People pass by but they don€t park there. BARDEN:In 2  years I haven€t seen anybody park there besides us and our consultants. RHO:And then you€re required to have off-street parking which you indicated you€re going to have. You€re going to have 12 units. How many off-site or on-site parking are you having or planning to have? HIGGINS:Two for each unit plus some guest spaces, about 6 guest spaces. RHO:Thank you. 27EXHIBIT A WATANABE:Are there any other questions? Well, you may be seated then. MOEVAO:Can I say something? WATANABE:Yes. MOEVAO:I really would like to apologize, to you especially. You know I did go around the community, I tried to meet up with everybody in the community, and I do apologize for not being able to reach you. I did speak with Uncle Pat and, you know, Uncle Keoni, Mr. Medeiros and Mr. Ramos who also lives next door to the property. And, you know, when I did come around I tried to find everybody. I€m sorry I did not find you there. If you were the house that€s right across where one of the window is bordered up, I did try to go to that home. It kind of looked like no one was there. But, you know, I€m sorry. I really, you know, care for the Hawaiian culture. I really care for the community, and I really want to be a part of it. And, you know, my role is really trying to mend this thing to, you know, make a more stronger community out there. So I feel most of these places might be occupied by Keaukaha residents, you know, that€s another way of looking at it, you know, providing more homes for the community there also.ButIdoapologizeandI€msorry. WATANABE:Okay,thankyou.Youknow,inlightofallthetestimonywehave,Iwant to take a precaution here. Can we have a motion to close the public hearing. DOMINGO:I move to close the public hearing. WOODWARD:Second. WATANABE:All in favor say aye please. COMMISSIONERS:Aye. WATANABE:Any opposed? Okay, so it€s officially closed. And now I guess we can entertain a motion or further discussion. WOODWARD:Mr. Chairman? WATANABE:Yes, Mr. Woodward. WOODWWARD:I would move that we approve Special Management Area Permit, as soon as I get my glasses on I can tell you what it is, 07-000018. DOMINGO:Second. WATANABE:Thank you. So we have a motion that€s live on the table. Any further discussion on this motion? None. Mr. Darrow? 28EXHIBIT A DARROW:Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The motion before us is to approve the Special Management Area Use Permit. With that I€ll take the roll. Commissioner Woodward? WOODWARD:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Ogata? OGATA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Rho? RHO:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye with strong reservations. DARROW:And Mr. Chairman? WATANABE:Aye. DARROWThe motion passes six to zero. WATANABE:Thank you. You€ll be advised in writing of the decision. The discussion ended at 12:38 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary 29EXHIBIT A