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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023-08-04 Salary Commission MinutesREGULAR SESSION Salary Commission Hilo Council Chambers Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401 Hilo, Hawaii August 4, 2023 (Friday) Call to Order (Item 1) The regular meeting of the Salary Commission, County of Hawaii, was called to order at 10:00 a.m. by Acting Chair Dawood Y. Farahi, at the Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, Hilo, Hawaii, on Friday, August 4, 2023. Roll Call — Present Mr. Dawood Y. Farahi, Acting Chair Mr. Jules Dudoit, Member Ms. Judy Greenbaum (via ZOOM) Ms. Teresa T. Nakama, Member (via ZOOM) Ms. Luahiwa Namahoe, Member Mr. Sam Nelson, Member Mr. Dennis Riordan Member Mr. Danny B. Patel, Ex -Officio Member Absent and Excused Mr. Steven Pavao, Chair Ms. Donala Kawa`auhau, Member Also Present Ms. Dakota "Cody" Frenz, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel Mr. Steven Frye, I" Deputy, Office of the Prosecuting Attorney Mr. Allen Bartolome, Special Projects Coordinator, Office of the Prosecuting Attorney Mr. John Bertsch, Member, Police Commission (via ZOOM) Ms. Glynis Yamada, Secretary -Reporter, Human Resources Department Commission members will participate in-person, via ZOOM, or by teleconference. Members of the public may attend this meeting either in-person at the meeting location or via ZOOM. Salary Commission Call to Order (Item 1) August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL Good morning, everyone. Before we start, we need to take a rollcall and I appreciate if you say your name and your district, please—we'll start with the left. MS. FRENZ: And we don't need, district, everyone. This is Cody Frenz, Deputy Corporation Counsel. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. MR. PATEL: Good morning, Danny Patel, Acting Director, Department of Human Resources. MR. NELSON: Sam Nelson. MS. NAMAHOE: Luahiwa Namahoe. ACTING CHR FARAHL Dawood Farahi. MR. RIORDAN: Dennis Riordan. MR. DUDOIT: Jules Dudoit. MS. FRENZ: And on ZOOM? MS. GREENBAUM: Judy Greenbaum. MS. NAKAMA: Teresa Nakama. MS. FRENZ: And good morning—Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz on behalf of the Salary Commission. Also present is Secretary Glynis Yamada. Go ahead, Chair. MS. NAKAMA: I cannot hear everybody. ACTING CHR FARAHL So, we have a quorum. MS. FRENZ: Yes, sir. ACTING CHR FARAHL Having a quorum we need to ensure that the public open meeting act has been followed. Counsel, have we informed the public of today's meeting in the agenda? Have we informed the public of today's meeting in the agenda? MS. FRENZ: We have. Our agenda was properly noticed to the public six days prior, according to statute under Sunshine Laws—and we are ready to proceed, Chair. Page 2 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 I think we can start with testifiers either via ZOOM and/or in public first. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. So, let the record show that we're in compliance and that quorum is present. Statements from the Public (Item 2) ACTING CHAIR FARAHL Any public statements before this Commission? Please state your name and begin to speak. MS. FRENZ: This is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz, do we have any members of the public present to testify? No one from our Hilo location. Any public testifiers via ZOOM? May the record reflect a negative response. You can proceed, Chair. Approval of Minutes (Item 3) ACTING CHR FARAHL I can't see—okay. Everyone have the minutes? MS. GREENBAUM: Yes. ACTING CHR FARAHL Or are there any changes— MS. YAMADA: There are no minutes. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. We don't have any minutes. Okay. MS. GREENBAUM: We have. Communication(s) (Item 4) Communication No. 23-11, Dated July 25, 2023, From Salary Commission Chair Steven Pavao, To Appointing Authorities, Requesting Information To Determine Whether Future Salary Adjustments Should Be Incorporated Into The County Of Hawai`i's Fiscal Year 2023-2024 Budget. Adjustments May Represent Increases, Decreases, Or Status Quo (No Adiustments). (This Memo Was Distributed Via Email On July 25, 2023) ACTING CHR FARAHL We have Communication 23-11 that was sent out. Have we had any responses? MS. FRENZ: We have had lots of—this is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. Chair, we have had lots of responses. They were all emailed from our Chair's secretary, Glynis Yamada, yesterday—and I believe as early as this morning. Has everyone received those and checked their email to have reviewed those responses prior to this morning's meeting? MS. GREENBAUM: Yes, I have. Page 3 Salary Commission ACTING CHR FARAHL I only saw the ones from two days ago today. MS. FRENZ: Then your email will be full of responses. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Namahoe. August 4, 2023 MS. NAMAHOE: No, I was just going to agree that I was reading them all the way up through this morning. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Commissioner. ACTING CHR FARAHL The communication I saw the 7 questions. And 6 of those questions, the Human Resources Department should have—and that would make life easier for everybody because that information they should readily have. MS. NAMAHOE: This is Commissioner Namahoe. I'm going to share the following under "New Business"—and this has to do with to help set the tone for the great amount of information that we've received all the way through this morning, which would be via the emails starting that are coming in from the department heads or the deciding officers. I guess that's the best way to call them, right? For employers their largest cost is wages. Thereafter, the largest cost that an employer bears on behalf of their human resources is health premiums—healthcare premiums. In the work that I did prior to retiring from HMSA, which I just retired on June 30', I worked in the department that sees the underwriting side of the macro information side. I could never pull up peoples—members individual information on the subscriber level but I can tell you about Hawaii County because I worked with the (inaudible) and large businesses. One of my—one of the complements to my department was the EUTF book. So, I can share that in the last couple of years, due to COVID, my recollection of where HMSA suppressed premium increases, absorbed medical trend costs—"medical trend" is the term we used for medical inflation. We absorbed those over the lastconsecutively, since the beginning of COVID 2020. Going forward in 2024 we're going to start—well, and for the smaller businesses they saw it effective July 2023. The increases are coming because HMSA—and the other insurance companies did the same—absorbed the great amount of pandemic costs. And when I say what those costs are, when you're talking about someone that is sitting in the ICU on a bed, you're probably talking about $200,000.00 a week. So, when we stop and think about how many hospitals we have across Hawaii, and it's about 20 to 29—depend on what you quantify as a hospitalKohala, the Hamakua facility that sort of thing. You start to get into the differentials of what a hospital is. But a lot of those costs are now going to go back on the employers Page 4 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 For the EUTF book, they have the 75/25 plan, the 80/20 plan, the 90/10 plan, and the HMO. The single employee, their burden is 40 percent. Even as an employee, whereas in the private sector the law is written that the employer bears 98.5 percent of the cost for the employees premium. The dependent portion can be passed all the way on to the employee, so they'll see it in their wages. But for the EUTF employee, that doesn't matter if it's County or State, they will see 40 percent—whether they are a single employee or if they carry dependents on the book. And I think it's important to include into the factors that we use to weigh in when we look at the enormity of the information, when we're seeing wagesI'm suggesting in front of this Board, that compensation—overall compensation includes that point from gross to net wages, and the employees are going to start to face their increases, effective July 2024. Thank you. MS. GREENBAUM: This is Commissioner Judy Greenbaum. Commissioner Namahoe, are you indicating that the employee would be responsible for a portion of the premium—is that what I'm understanding and/or are you indicating that part of our consideration in the salary increase—factor in this benefit? MS. NAMAHOE: I think that it's important for us to consider when we start to discuss what increases—how we quantify the need for increases. I noticed this in our first meeting last month—and I want to put this additional piece in everyone's brain because the employer—and when I say "employer" in the County level the County of Hawaii is considered one employer, County of Maui's considered another employer, State's considered its own employer. But they, together, co -mingle their duties with their staff under the EUTF Employer Union Trust Fund. So, when—what we see right now is that the employees of all of these employers—so all of the county employees, for this discussion, will have to make their choices when it comes to their healthcare premiums. What I'm saying is that even if we for example, tabled no raises, just status quo this coming year they're still going to see less coming out of their net paycheck because all employees must bear 40 percent of the premiums the total premium cost. That's the way EUTF has negotiated their package their benefit package. And the reason why the County and the State could do that, whereas in the private sector they cannot do that—is because two things. One, the government doesn't have to follow their own rules. But two, because when you meet full retirement status from EUTF, you have available to you, a retirement package all the way up to 90/10 premiuma 90/10 plan with no monthly premiums. So, if we've never worked for government before or have a government employee in our household, we're not aware of that. And I think it's important for us to consider that because even if we say "no raises"—it's still going to be harder on the paychecks, effective July 2024. And we're not deciding, perhaps, 2023 but we are deciding 2024. So, from the healthcare side, that's how we frame our calendars. I am suggesting this so that we could, perhaps, get on a similar page. And I'm not inferring anything beyond that. Page 5 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 MS. GREENBAUM: Commissioner Judy Greenbaum. Commissioner Namahoe, thank you so much for that clarification, `cause that does make a huge difference because not only are the employees burdened with the additional out-of-pocket health insurance premium taxes are also increasing. So, those things should be factored in. So, thank you, again, Commissioner Namahoe, that's good to know. ACTING CHR FARAHL I'd like to go back to the conversation we had last week. I think to efficiently do this job and have specific recommendations that are well -thought out that contains the information we heardI think we need to come up with the recommendations and come up with a mechanism of how to make those recommendations. And then give the public an opportunity to comment on that before we make a final recommendation or final decision depends on how we look at it. That, essentially, as I said before three specific things that we're dealing with. One, is the salary associated with the position. We're not talking about the salary associated with the individual, but the salary associated with the position of a public works director, a police chief, and so on. That salary is already in the human resources base and the human resources have the description of the job associated with that position. If they don't have it, then it would be sad thing to realize that. So, you look at those two things the initial one—and the position description—and we need to find out the criteria of how we judge the worth of the position. How many employees that that position supervises, how much is the operating legend of that, and so on and so forth. What qualifications are needed and all of those things could be listed. I could tell you off the top of my head 7 or 8 essential ones, and human resources could figure that out. That is Item number one that we need to make a determination of what a particular position is worth based upon the description of the job, the budget associated with the work, the number of employees being supervised. This is the "x" for, let's say, public works. The second part of it is that we need to make a recommendation or a decision about how to deal with the increments associated with these positions. The bargaining unit employees have an automatically built increment into their positions. And if you don't do this for your managerial or non -unit employees, as we call it in New Jersey, you will find out that very soon most of your managers will make less money than the employees that are represented by unions. This is also a fact. I remember for sure, when I worked for—when I did the same thing for the County of Union, there were 14 people in the corrections department that made more money than the county manager or anybody. What the New Jersey law said that when you retire, the average of your last three year's income is going to be used on 55—and the number of years you worked to determine the pension that you get. Page 6 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 So, a very large number of employees with lot of seniority were given all the overtime and all the double time and Saturdays and Sundays to make their salary a behemoth, which almost brought the pension system down at the tune of three -and -a -half billion a year. That, we need to make a decision—how do you want to make that decision? The simple rule is for managerial employees you can create a structure of satisfactory average—for those (inaudible)whatever human resources come and give them the increment based upon some kind of a criteria. In New Jersey, we did that to take the union increments the smallest one and the largest one. Between those two the supervising authority whether it was the mayor or the water commission, chose what percentage or number they wanted to give to that position. Let's say police commissioner got 3,500 out of the increment annually, until the next round of decision. The third component of that was the cost of living. The cost of living there are different calculations that could be done. And, moneywise, a resolution could be brought before the council—and they're the final authority that the cost of living would be this in contrast to the collective bargaining agreements that has already gotten that. And if you don't pay attention to that, you could have an all-American nightmare in 200 union members will come in and all the money's gone to management and none is going to us. And, last, the fourth component to that would be whether other costs that have changed or potentially can change that would make the position salary less than the nominal number that we would recommend. For instance, healthcare and some of the other out-of-pocket things that you would want to give them. MS. NAMAHOE: Chair Farahi, may I ACTING CHR FARAHL Sure. MS. NAMAHOE: Points 1, 2, and 3 I think are really important and so that we can walk the fence line of the duties that are ahead of us. I would like to suggest that the starting point be found on the final two pages of Communication—wait, yeah-06-08-23—aka the last two pages in the blue binder. And what that is, is it's the executive salary jurisdiction comparisons. I think that it's going to be, otherwise, it's difficult to anchor those factors without this being, I think, the initial vortex. Because it allows us to at least see—and, again, I'm coming from the EUTF point of viewI'm looking at all the employers in comparison to each other. And so, where I freely admit I have some baggage about this because I had to fight or advocate for Hawaii County over the—against and with, alongside the other neighbor island counties when we were dealing with healthcare concerns. So, spitting out numbers like we have 200,000 population on the Big Island and there's over 4,000 square miles and looking at some of the concerns—and then how we anchor into that. Whereas Maui County is there156,000 population; Molokai out of that is 10,000 population; Page 7 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 Oahu is a million; Kauai is 75,000. I start just right there and then that helps me look at where some of the wages are. These two last pages, I think, are to the point that you made about how we address the recipe this, for me, is the ingredient list—are these two pages these last two pages right here. Thank you. ACTING CHR FARAHL That is, actually, correct. But it is one of the criteria's that determines the worth of the position. In other words, those things like budget, employees—and then the comparative index associated with similar counties or some other entities, or sometimes you do nationwide things. So, what I'm recommending is that for the "New Business" we break it down and just talk about those things—one, to break it down and say, "What is the position worth? What is the salary associated with the position" regardless of who is in it. And, "What criteria would we use in order to determine a recommendation associated with that position?" Let's say, we start with the comparative part. It doesn't really matter. You compare it and then you say, "Okay, budget, number employees, qualifications"—for instance, the medical examiner qualification of an MD automatically jumps that salary to a different level, regardless of how many people report to them and so on. But the comparison might actually give you a better idea that how much a county coroner should be paid. So, if we could stick with that, based on that position description, that is provided by the human resources—and look at the additional things that they provided us through the communication that was sent to them, to adjust the position description. Then say, "Okay, based on these criteria, these positions are worth this and this." So, once you completed that one, the other two are or three items are very easy to do. "What is the cost of living associated with that? How do you calculate that"—and so forth. "What is the increment? What system of evaluation do you have in place?" That could cut down the time associated with us sitting in over here and doing all of these things to reasonable size. MR. RIORDAN: Commissioner Riordan. Isn't that the mayor's job? He decides the people that work for him what their scale is? And if he thinks the planning director should be—is worth more than the parks and rec. director that's his call. And our call is just to make sure that they're getting paid. And that if we start with the base that we have right here and we say, "Okay, everybody's going to get"I'm just throwing a number out there, please don't quote me, let's just say, "Everybody's going to get an 18 percent raise across-the-board" and we just—and we don't make that decision as to what the mayor thinks his people their lineup is in the flowchart. `Cause that seems like we're going to go way into the weeds. MR. NELSON: But I think we do set the salaries. Page 8 Salary Commission MR. RIORDAN: Yes. August 4, 2023 MR. NELSON: I think we do set the salaries. So, well, you're right, the mayor—as the boss should be setting the salaries. We're actually the boss for the salaries. MR. RIORDAN: No, I MR. NELSON: The mayor's the boss, but we set the salaries. MR. RIORDAN: No, I that's what I'm saying is that's what we do. We set the salaries. We don't go into the job description. That isn't our call. That's the mayor's call because he's the one that says, "This is the people I need to hire." MR. NELSON: He defines the job. Yeah, you're right. I agree with you. MR. RIORDAN: And that we can get stuck—we'll be here for a long time, if we go through every person's job description and say whether (inaudible). MR. NELSON: But we do—we have all the information that we asked for him about the scope of their job. MR. RIORDAN: Right. MR. NELSON: So, we do need to evaluate that, right? I mean, that iswe asked for that stuff, they sent it all—somehow, that needs to be looked at, right—to factor in what he's saying, `cause that—'cause they gave us a budget—some of them there're different responses. But they gave us a budget—"Oh, I manage a budget of $10 million and 500 people" that's a different job that, "Oh, I manage a bunch of them, $200,000.00 and I got two people"so, there's different scopes. And that's what I think that determines what each individual (inaudible) gets paid. So, I do think that's part of our job. I mean, you're right. A lot of these guys just came back and said, "Well, the bargaining unit guys, they all got 18 percent" which, I think, very relevant. And now I make less than the guy that works for me that's very relevant. But—and so, one way would be adjust it that way. But we still, I think, need to look at the different jobs, `cause there are market rates. And, like you say, for the physician the medical examiner—okay, physician rates, whatever, how they fit in the scale for that. And then, like, the parks director there's a different scale. And some of these guys gave us, like, one guy I was looking at in the county in Arizona they gave us salary surveys. Which isa salary survey where I worked physician salaries that's how we priced the physician rates. We had salary surveys and people get (inaudible) based on those averages. Page 9 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 So, I think we need to digest the information that they sent us. Okay? And then, kind of, comparison—look at it to the scope of the job, and then look at it, basically, what they've been missing out on for the last year, and what it should be going forward. ACTING CHR FARAHL Mr. Riordan, you are correct—but not. You need to look at it—the mayor or the authorizing body because you have some agencies the water commission things like that—that are self -generating revenues and they have other system associated with that. The mayor is responsible—from the way I read the charter and where I (inaudible) to pick the individual that goes into the position to assess and evaluate the individual that is in the position and decide what increment of performance based things we give them. If they don't have that, then this Commission is authorized to do that. Somebody has to authorize it. MS. NAMAHOE: Commissioner Farahi, I just want to interrupt to sayI'm sorry just to interrupt to say, that my understanding is that they're given ranges. And that although the mayor, it's true that the mayor, as the head of his budget, he can—he has a sliding scale with which he can choose where he—what he pays. They're not completely obliged to a fixed number. So, for example, budget and finance is not just going to get this number. Is that correct, Cody? MS. FRENZ: I think this is Cody. I think we should have Acting Director Patel weigh in. I think we're getting some there's a lot of confusion, right now, about whether or not there're sliding scales there are ranges—when sometimes they're actually not. And there is a salary, it is fixed to a position—and so, there is no range and it's up to the mayor or the appointing authority to remove, if they see fit—if someone is not doing their job, for example. So, I'm not aware that there is, for the department heads—ranges. But I'd like to defer to our expert in that regard. MR. PATEL: That is correct, DCC Cody. So the salaries are set by this Commission. The only area where there's, sort of a discretion in setting the salaries for appointed positions, would be with the prosecutor's and the office of the corporation counsel. So, the prosecutor sets the salaries of his appointed deputy prosecutors and the corporation counsel sets the salaries for their appointed deputy corp. counsels. Their salaries are based off, ultimately, what the corp. counsel and the prosecutor salaries are. So, this—for any other position, whether its police chief, fire chief—even for the HR director it's this body that sets those salaries. MS. GREENBAUM: Thank you. Commissioner Farahi, this is Commissioner Greenbaum. I just wanted to clarify, Commissioner Farahi, your thought was that if we set—let's say we come to an agreement and we increase a salary, we should also indicate the increases, potentially, for the next three to five years to make that particular positions package attractive—is that what I'm understanding? Is that correct? Page 10 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL That's only one part of it. I think MS. GREENBAUM: Sure. And I want to just try to simplify it because what I'm hoping is that we're able to come to a decision on these increases, for these departments, sooner than later because they've been on hold for a while. I'm going to say anywhere from three to five years. ACTING CHR FARAHL Yeah. 2019 I understood yeah. MS. FRENZ: 2018. ACTING CHR FARAHL Twenty-eighteen—okay. MS. GREENBAUM: Right. So, maybe simplifying it, to me, would provide us with actually, be the best use of our time and the best service to the people that we work for. ACTING CHR FARAHL That's the point that I was trying to make, Commissioner. I've been in that situation myself. MS. GREENBAUM: Wonderful. Okay. ACTING CHR FARAHL And if you don't create a system to reward people that are doing a good job, an average job, or the worst job—we call it punishment—no raise. That is associated with that increment or performance number, which is associated with the individual that sits in the job, Commissioner. The position itselfas I understood the charter—is the—determined by this body and someone approves it I don't know whether it goes to the county council or not but—not counselor, the county council MS. FRENZ: You mean salary increases, Chair? ACTING CHR FARAHL Yeah. MS. FRENZ: So, let me just clarify. This is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. Let me—what—something I mentioned last hearing that—maybe I didn't do a very good job of explaining it, since it appears to be unclear. There is no merit -based system that this Salary Commission MS. GREENBAUM: Right. MS. FRENZ: is enabled under the County Charter to enact. So, I think we talked about it last time, there is zero merit -based discussion appropriate here. Page 11 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 The only issue before this Commission is either increase or decrease—one or the other. Ten percent, by charter—if there's a 10 percent increase or a 10 percent decrease, a two-thirds vote of the entire membership that's six of you—have to agree on any outcome. Whether you do it by position, with a number, or a percentage there is no merit -based approach allowed nor is that your purview under the charter. So, that is not a conversation this Commission should be having. The remedy, if one believes the appointing authority fire commission, police commission, merit appeals board the mayor, for example, are community that elects our elected officials the mayor and the prosecutor's office is removal. So, if the community and/or the mayor, and/or the appointing authorities does not believe he or she is doing a good jobremoval is the remedy as opposed to a merit -based approach for salary purposes. So, I just want to clarify, if I wasn't clear last time that is not up for consideration and discussion by this Commission, based on the charter that you are not afforded that responsibility or duty. Just to clarify. Does that make sense? ACTING CHR FARAHL I understand that. MS. GREENBAUM: Absolutely. MR. PATEL: Sorry—Danny Patel here. Just real quick just to add onto that. Three options, right: Increase, status quo, or decrease. And then, to kind of follow-up what I've been hearing from everyone with Commissioner Namahoe's comment about an anchor point to, kind of, start the conversation. Just for your reference, the way it's been approached in the past has been if the chair, vice- chair—whoever it is wanted to come up with some proposal what they thought themselves, just to kick off the conversation, then the discussion about all the other points—Vice-Chair Farahi brings up and all the other Commissioners—can be had systematically. And in that way, it's provided for forward progress. But just a starting off point. And then, as Commissioner Namahoe pointed out, Communication 23-12 that you got in today's packet—those are the most updated numbers as far as the other juris public jurisdictions in the State (SEE ATT. A, COMM. NO. 23-12). And then, in the previous meetings, you did get the percentage increases for all the bargaining units, particularly, when you're looking at salaries for department heads and their deputies (SEE ATT. B, COMM. NO. 23-05; AND ATT. C, COMM. NO. 23-09). Aside from fire and police, obviously, you're looking at BU13 would be the comparable. So, taking that into consideration with all the information you've got to-dateI think at the very, very first meeting you also got some salary data from the Hawaii Employers Counsel for private sector positions. Any Commissioner is free to, on their own look through the wealth of materials Page 12 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 that have been provided to -date. Think for themselves what kind of proposal they'd like to set forth to, kind of, kick-off the conversation, and then at least at future meetings, there's a starting—an anchor point, if you will. MS. NAMAHOE: Mr. Patel, I have a question. Is it possible for you to speak to your counterparts in the other—for the other employers, the other counties, and the State—or maybe this information is available online or you don't have to reach out to say that you know what they're looking at for the next two years—if that's already been in their budget talks. And the reason why I'm saying that is because as we're discussing, I don't know if you can see it over thereI just decided to look at Hawaii County and to the—so Hawaii County's in the middle, and then Maui and Kauai are to its right—and everywhere that I marked orange, it's below Maui—at least Maui or, in some cases, Maui and Kauai. And, again, as somebody this is so near and dear to my heart, that I'm ready to spit out COLA numbers on all of us, the difference between us and those two counties. And it's not to knock anybody down, but what I would like to do is think about the trigonometry of what's the percentage, to pull it up to parity, and then what it would look like, at least, for the next two years—so that when we come up with numbers—if we decide to come up with increases, that we can look at realistic increases besides just saying 18 percent for what barb. is doing the bargaining units. MS. GREENBAUM: Right. MS. NAMAHOE: Because that's actually where Honolulu County has been pretty interesting to look at. And, granted, it's true, it's—what did you say -38 percent? But we might end up doing something like that because that's what it's going to take in the real world. And, yes, we do know examples of leadership on this island moving to different counties because the money was there. So, since we are woefully behind the times, and they don't have the benefits like we do of lava flows and big earthquakes and so on and so forth—and the things that are required of us to do public safety, access public access on the fly, 24/7 those are the things that are still fresh in my mind that are worth looking at. So, I would like to say that that compliments your Point 1 of where our starting point is. I'd like to ask us to, kind of, go through that and do the math on that—and that'd be where we really start to go forward. And I'm willing to be wrong there. MS. GREENBAUM: I like that. ACTING CHR FARAHL It doesn't matter what starting point you get. In other words, if you want to use the comparative index as the beginning, and then incorporate some of the other points—again, in one county you may have a much larger public works department because of the size of it—and another one, much smaller. Page 13 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 But, anyway, if you want to start it this way, that's okay just put it down, and then look at the budget, the number of employees, and (inaudible) qualifications, and so on. MS. FRENZ: If I could jump in really quickly, Vice -Chair Farahi. ACTING CHR FARAHL Sure. MS. FRENZ: First, let me just say as to the point you were just making—and that's why we asked this body, rather—you all asked the appointing authorities and provided a cc to the department heads so they could substantiate exactly what their work demands and requirements are(inaudible) in those responses, right. And I think that's—Commissioner Riordan's point was let's use that information as opposed to a deep dive within the job descriptions, just to trail back to that. But, also, as a brief interruption we just had joining us via ZOOM one of my police commissioners, Commissioner Bertsch, who would like to testify publicly on the agenda items before this body. Is it okay to allow him to testify at this time, Chair? ACTING CHR FARAHL Yes. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Bertsch. You're still muted, sir. (At this time, Mr. John Bertsch, Member, Police Commissioner, proceeded to testify via ZOOM.) MR. BERTSCH: Aloha—and thank you for allowing me the opportunity to testify on behalf of the Police Commission. It's good to see some familiar faces on the call. I've been a police commissioner and a fire commissioner throughout the—for the County for a number of years now probably, closer to 20I'm probably giving out my age. And throughout the years and throughout the decades, I guess, we've always experienced this issue of parity, which you folks are addressing. And I really do appreciate you bringing this forward to us. I firmly believe that addressing the current parity and anticipated parity issues on public safety is critical in maintaining a high level of service and safety that we expect from our officials. The current disparity (inaudible) for public safety heads creates a situation which we've experienced while the hard working (inaudible) by these essential personnel, go under valued. Not often a competitive and equitable salary will not only show our appreciation to their efforts but also attract and retain top talent in these crucial leadership positions. Inadequate compensation can lead to demotivation, low morale, and even staff turnover, which directly impacts the efficiency and effectiveness of our public safety operations. When we talk Page 14 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 about, primarily, the police chief and the deputy chief—which these salaries attach to—we need to ensure (inaudible). These gentlemen are trained professionals in their field. It's not like they just move out of a position and go suddenly become an accountant or something else. These guys are they're lifelong career professionals in law enforcement and also in firefighting with the fire chief and the deputy fire chief. So, when we—when they've been here as long as they have, they need to be compensated. Currently, we are seeing issues on the mainland where police departments and jurisdictions, and fire departments and jurisdictionsI'm speaking on behalf of the fire, too, because it's all public safety issue. They're both para-neutral—paramilitary organizations where their rank -and -file are currently making more money than they are. And it's very difficult when you get an order to somebody that's below you in the chain of command, but is earning more money than you. There is that mental distrust, especially in that type of command situation where public safety is at stake. The cost of living inflation rates are constantly increasing and it's crucial that our compensation keeps up with these economic changes. We need to provide a fair and just salary increase. We need to ensure that these guys maintain reasonable quality of life while meeting their financial responsibilities and, moreover, a competitive salary will make it (inaudible) for them to stay with us, strengthen our communities, and security in the long run. Our community relies heavily on the dedication and expertise of these individuals. And the brave men and women are on the frontlines and facing challenging, high pressure situations to keep us safe. It's our responsibility and it's only our responsibility—no one else does this—to reciprocate and for the community by offering them fair compensation and acknowledging the sacrifices they make daily. I know that our board put forth some numbers. I would even go so far as to say that those numbers are inadequate that we need to look to the future. That, just like as the tide comes up, if we know that we've got a provision for a certain tide and it takes us six months to get there all of a sudden we're inundated because we're below water again. So, we need to—and oftentimes the information that I get from our constituents is"Why did you not anticipate and plan for this? Why are we always behind on the eighth ball?" And, I guess, that's what I'm compelling us to do here today—is that to not look at today but anticipate the future. Because as these raises come upas these collective bargaining units go into effect, and everybody below the chief and the deputy get these pay increases—it puts us back into the same argument. And time and time again, I've been in front of the Salary Commission this would be my fifth time arguing this same statement. And every time within 24 to 36 month, we're right back in this situation. So, I appreciate your time. I'm open for any questions. I truly believe that we need to be in the 220 to the 240 range for both of these heads—both the police chief and the fire chief. I can't speak on behalf of the fire commission but I can tell you that both these leaders in these executive positions are embarrassingly underpaid. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Page 15 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL I think there's—I'll ask the counsel to hold on the County Charter conversation for one second. One of the points that you made, sir the police commission—on behalf of the police commission, is the ingrained concept of low performance-based rewards are associated with the jobs. And that would automatically put you behind the eighth ball. Whether the County Charter allows it to be considered or not considered, the County Charter allows us—as I read it and I'm not a lawyer to consider all the criteria associated with developing the worth of the position. Whatever the worth of the position is, you need to base it upon some mental thing—and maybe someday the County decides that the manager or employee should have a separate category of merit pay or not. But you need to consider that they've been in there that increment would have been in their salary. That's why you fall behind the eighth ball, Commissioner, because whatever you decide today—let's say you set the salaries of two commissioners, the police chief and the fire chief at 240 or 220or whatever number you want. Once you pay for all the back arrears associated with not paying them for five years -2018? MS. FRENZ: Twenty -eighteen but there would not be arrears. It would start whenever a majority vote, here, took effect. Just to verify. ACTING CHR FARAHL So, you don't put— MS. ut MS. FRENZ: No, sir, we are not doing retroactive. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. So, again, that puts you in a different situation. I am in total agreement, we need to decide all of these similar to the comparative chart that you have. Then, you look at some of the backgrounds that came—background information that came from different entities that we asked them to give. Then look at the information the human resources provide. I'm not changing the job description, but I'm saying the job description determines the amount that is (inaudible), and the amount that needs to be associated with the position is what this body is supposed to decide. Correct? MR. BERTSCH: Chairman, thank you. Thank you for your comments. And I do appreciate you receiving my testimony. Points of clarification. When I was speaking, there's a couple of triggers. One, the commission has the overall the police commission and the fire commission, has the overall responsibility of providing an annual review of the performance of the chief and, subsequently, the deputy. Whether we provide that individual with a fantastic performance review, we still do not have the authority to escalate their pay or provide them with any type of additional compensation for doing a great job. Page 16 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 The County Charter mandates that you folks are the ones that outline the salaries of these department heads. So, when we try to motivate and keep our chiefs—as you folks know, we both departments, the fire department and the police department just went through hiring within the last 24 months. And that's because our current department heads—or the retiring police chief and fire chief—both retired out. Based, in no small part, on salaries. So, our goal—our goal, here, today, is to convey to this Salary Commission—on behalf of the police commission that we are very thrilled with the department heads and that we feel that due compensation, that brings it up to market value—that brings these positions to be paid what these positions are paid not only across the State but as an industry standard across the nation. The—when I think you heard me say a performance-based increase, what the message I was trying to convey to you folks, which I think you guys were talking about when I joined in late and I apologize for my tardinessI had another call. Both departments have collective bargaining units, which are the unions that provide salaries for everybody in the department. All the management that is above that collective bargaining unit had negotiated to where—if the lowest paid police officer or firefighter gets a raise, everybody above them goes up incremental—with the exception, now, the individuals that are under our purview under the Salary Commission purview—and that is the chief and the deputy chief. So, right now, we have subordinates that are making significantly more money than the chief and the deputy chief. Our assistant chiefs make more money. Our majors make more money. Currently, there are some captains that are equitable or possibly make more money with the overtime. And so, what exposed this to us and made it, kind of, a critical issue was when our current chief that we just hired was doing a fantastic job trying to recruit a deputy chief—could not do that withI should say hand-strung—with selecting who that individual wanted because he would have to go down the rank structure in order to provide a pay increase. Because nobody wants to take a pay decrease to take that position and assume more responsibilities. So, we're at this point now where the captain of the ship is making less money than the chief cook. And that's our responsibility. So, I just I think we're all on the right track. I think we're saying the right things. It just, for us, we just need to collectively come together—understand that we need to do the right thing, and execute on their salary increase. And I don't—and I know for a fact we're all going to be doing this again very shortly. MS. GREENBAUM: Commissioner Bertsch, I did have a question for you. So, my understanding is, if we don't make any changes and we don't make an adequate increase, the quality of the services that (inaudible) or the quality of the individuals that would walk into these positions, will start to dwindle and indirectly affect the overall cost to the community. MR. BERTSCH: I agree—and not—it will cost us more money because the reality of it is, is we do—we are very, very fortunate. Hawaii is a community of individuals as you folks are sitting Page 17 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 on this board—we give back to our island. We often do so—and all of us comes from different walks of life. We all have different income streams. Some do really well, some get by—and— but when we talk about these positions that we've got to fund, that we've got to provide salaries to—we need to be cognizant of the individuals and their positions, their roles and responsibilities without bias—our own personal bias. As an example, there was a recent posting for a chief of police for the Transit Authority. And this is the guys that do the buses and the trains for bay area rapid transit. The starting salary for that person that has a budget smaller than Big Island, has a staff of a thirdI'm sorry—half of what we have. The starting salary for that position was $365,000.00. Our current chief, more than amply qualifies to take that position. And so, Commissioner Greenbaum, to kind of drive home your point—the opportunities for all of our talented individuals are out there. And they may exercise that. We don't want them to. And I'm not suggesting that we can compete with mainland salaries, `cause we can't. We don't have the tax base. We offer a lot more to our people, but we have to be equitable. And we have to solve the parity problem. Because when our subordinates make more money than our chiefs do—and I'm not talking $1.00 or $5.00I'm talking 20 to 40$50,000.00 more. We have to resolve that and that's incumbent on us. Because it does keep the motivation of the department and it makes our community safer because they're now motivated to do their work. MS. NAMAHOE: Thank you so much, Commissioner. I need to pose a question to Mr. Patel. And that's, again, looking at the Communication 23-06. The information from the City and County of Honolulu is now outdated. This includes all of the salaries before their recent increases. I would like to ask you, sir, if you could submit to us an amended and updated spreadsheet so that we can really see what the difference is. MR. PATEL: Yes, Commissioner Namahoe. You should have Communication 23-12. MS. NAMAHOE: And it's formatted the same way? Is it—hang on one second—maybe if I turn the page I have my own answer? MR. PATEL: The green folder. MS. NAMAHOE: It's in the green folder. Yeah, see, I'm not looking at my green folder right now. I'm only stuck on the blue. Hang on one second, `cause then I'm going to be marking up that page. MR. PATEL: But—yeah, so City and County's salaries are higher as of 7/1 this year. MS. NAMAHOE: So, here in the green folder. Page 18 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 MS. GREENBAUM: It's Communication 12. MS. NAMAHOE: Okay. So, here we go. Thank you so much. All right. Wow. Okay. So, and everything has been marked red. So I'm going to rid of the other one and look at this one. Have there been any updates outside of that? Nothing right, for the other counties -7/l/23. Okay. So Maui's is—now also been amended, `cause that's 7/l/22. And this new one is 7/l/23. So, again, I humbly suggest that we all start with this and just do some of our own math just as a starting point before we start drilling into the weeds. I think it was interesting for me just doing some quick comparisons. When we look at the mayor of Hawaii County that's 162,000.00. I'm going to drop all of the "100's" columns, right. So, 162,000.00 and it was higher than Maui's mayor of 159,000.00. However, once you start getting into his assistants and the deputies, then they go lower than Maui. They are—the prosecuting attorney is lower than Maui andI mean, it looks like it was smack between Maui and Kauai. And, again, we have a population of 200,000 on this island; Maui has 156,000; Kauai has 75,000 people who live there. Now, granted, it doesn't take into consideration things like military population and it also doesn't talk about tourism—and I don't have those numbers off of my head, but I know that those areI mean, that's a fluctuating population and that probably makes some sense there. But just looking at that as a simple starting point when we begin to look at that particular factor of where we are in terms of whether increases are needed. Because, again, we still have to vote on whether that happens. If we're looking at I mean, Option A, for example—is following what bargaining did with an 18 percent. Maybe if we start doing that—like I would like to do we might decide that it needs to be a higher number. I'm hoping that that would be to Mr. Farahi's original point that by the time that we meet again next month, that we're able to come together with everyone on that page, so that we can begin to move the glacier forward, and then we can start to dive into the various fingers of it—since that is one of the tasks that we're face with. Thank you so much. MS. GREENBAUM: Thank you, Commissioner Namahoe. Just to reiterate what you're saying, I like the starting point that you're mentioning. Is there a possibility of anyone creating a spreadsheet to that effect maybe? Or would that be something that the Salary Commission be open to, if I created a spreadsheet with the increases? Just, kind of, has the visual I guess—would that help? MS. NAMAHOE: This is Commissioner Namahoe. I like that, that I'm a visual learner as well—and that's how I see math. MS. GREENBAUM: Okay. Page 19 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 MS. NAMAHOE: I'm sure a lot of us are used to P&L's. So, that might be—what are we looking at in terms of percentages? Where are we mapped— MS. GREENBAUM: Correct. MS. NAMAHOE: across all of the various employers, right? State, counties—State and counties. And then, I'm looking forward to the sham battle of how important and nebulous and fragile Hawaii County is without even thinking about when Pele go "boom." So, yeah. MS. GREENBAUM: Okay. So, if the Commission is open to that, I'm not going to make it complex. I'm going to make it very simple so that it's palatable—everyone can understand and at least start moving forward. `Cause I would like to see an increase, personally, `cause I don't think that the executives are compensated adequately. MR. NELSON: So, could I this is Nelson. Can I make a suggestion here? I just want to—I think we got to the idea of a spreadsheet and this information with the different counties—it's all very good information. But if I could just make a suggestion. I think, Step 1, is because salaries haven't been adjusted for 2018—Step 1 is, basically, we look at what should be the increase? The other guys have all gotten increases of 18 percent or something like that. Look at a baseline—what do we need to do to bring people just as an average, what do we think is a reasonable inflationary factor? Okay? That's Step 1. So, I'll say, "Okay, these are the current salaries, what do we think it should be?" Then or just based on that inflation factor. Then, we've got all this information that the departments have sent with all their other"Oh, this is why we think this guy deserves this. This is why" whatever. That needs to be, then, taken a look at and then we've got the other county information to maybe do some individual adjustments. So, I think Step 1, it's like an automatic inflationary adjustment, and we should try to agree on what—if we agree on that, what that general percentage would be. Then, there's kind of looking at each individual job for the—what do we think that's worth—`cause there are market rates for different things. I mean, I guess, like we heard, like the police chief—okay, he could get a job at San Franciso at double the salary. I mean, some people have different competing things like that. So, we could factor that in based on the information that we have. So, I don't know if we can—] do think—and when I looked at what happenedI did—we had our last meeting and Commissioner Pavao suggested, "Hey, go look at the Honolulu Salary Commission. What did they do?" And they got a lot of bad press, I think, for adjusting the councils salaries to full-time. Page 20 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 But they did follow a procedure and what they did—they broke up into little groups but, ultimately, what they agreed on was a blanket percentage increase for everybody. Okay. I mean, that is what they ended up doing and even though they went through all kinds of work and then they just said, "Okay, everybody gets `x' percent." All right. So, I do think that's a good starting point. And then, basically, if we all could all take—look at each individual position and then factor in on that. I do think that as a baseline, if you're going to do a spreadsheet, the guy said 18 percent is what all the bargaining unit guys got. Take the current salaries, plug in 18 percent, and then we take a look at that. "Okay, here's where—here's what it would be if they got the union increases"—and then, we all individually take a look and say, "Oh, okay, this County should" What do we think that position's worth. And goes to your point, "Oh, okay, I think the planning director" whatever. MR. RIORDAN: This is Commissioner Riordan. I agree with that. I think that's a great suggestion. And, but—and I also want to say that no one in the County gets a merit increase. That is not what happens. And the unions, it's strictly based on amount of time that you're there. If you're there five years, you get a step increase only in the HGEA. The UPW workers do not get step increases. You stay as a park caretaker—that's what you get—and the guy that starts tomorrow gets that same amount. And nobody gets a merit increase throughout the whole County. It is wrong but it's the way it is, and it's—and once somebody passes their initial probation, they have union protection and it becomes really hard to even have them leave the County. But I just wanted to make that clear that there is no such thing as a merit increase in the County. And, but—and I'll put forward the suggestion that we start with 18 percent. And if you're willing to make a spreadsheet based on that and that's what everyone else agrees to, that would be something that we can start with, when we come back and go, "Okay, how does this compare to what the rest of the people in the State get"—and the police chiefs and things like that. MS. GREENBAUM: Perfect. So, I will create spreadsheet that shows the 18 percent increase. And then— ACTING CHR FARAHL Just hold on a second. You also need to consider the political ramifications of all of that, too. So MS. GREENBAUM: Oh, absolutely. ACTING CHR FARAHL Yeah. MS. GREENBAUM: We're not talking about doing the increase ACTING CHR FARAHL Right. Page 21 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 MS. GREENBAUM: we're looking to have a visual—so we can visually see what that looks like. ACTING CHR FARAHL Let me suggest what we heard right now. I think what we might want to do is to create another column to that sheet that we have the comparative sheet— MS. heet MS. GREENBAUM: Right. ACTING CHR FARAHL create another column for that and adjust it for those five years of none pay. Whether you want—call it an "increment" or "longevity" get (inaudible). So, you have to see where we fall MS. GREENBAUM: Correct. ACTING CHR FARAHL if we give them whatever number—you say the 18 percent—it's just five years18 percent, that's actually not a bad number. MS. GREENBAUM: No. ACTING CHR FARAHL And then, you have that number where we are now—and then look, exactly as we talked about—what are the other things that needs to be considered that we didn't. And for some departments, you may adjust—for others, you may not adjust. And then, from there, you really—even though the charter may not allow you, `cause I've been through this before—we need to make a recommendation to the County or to whatever authorities there are to just get off their thing, whatever they sit on—don't think with the part you sit on. Think with the part up here. And I think the commissioner from the police made that point, that you just—even if we said 18 percent and made all the adjustments, right—you are behind the eighth ball by the time you start this. So, whether the charter says we can do that or not—the charter doesn't prohibit us from creating an incremental, longevity to make a calculation but we can't force this on the County but we must make a recommendation to the County or whoever you need to make a recommendation to amend the charter to have some kind of performance-based system so you don't lose the individuals that are good. That you're incrementally going up because your underling assistant chiefs is going to go up and you're stuck again with what we generously, let's say, decided that you should get. There has to be that cost of living system that merit, longevity, increment— whatever. ncrementwhatever. And maybe suggest to them that amend the County Charter or something that probably be a nightmare. MS. GREENBAUM: That's major. ACTING CHR FARAHL Right. But what I'm saying is that this is the function of any public body to make recommendations of how to look into the future and make it easier, more competitive, and more recognition -based system—in addition to what we do (inaudible). Page 22 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 So, having given that speech and heard all of us different thoughts, I think the best thing to do is try to add that new column to see where we are. MS. NAMAHOE: May I, kind of, summarize what I heard you say and then you correct me. ACTING CHR FARAHL Sure. MS. NAMAHOE: So, we're going to add a new column. We're going to call it "18 percent" because, again, we're right now just trying to find some place that starting is the arears portion of up to 2023—and then going from there as the new floor, and then looking at the suggestion being what incremental increases will be for the next two or three years. Is that what we're saying? ACTING CHR FARAHL That's not what I'm saying. The counsel said that we don't pay arears, right. MS. GREENBAUM: No, we don't. MS. FRENZ: That is correct. So, this is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. Let me just jump in and clarify something—and also note I see Police Commissioner Bertch with his hand— his remote hand up wanting to address the Commission, if allowed by the chair. First things first. I want to differentiate that I have very clearly, I think, Acting Director Patel has indicated, we do not allow for merit -based. I think that's been made clear. However, that's different than what I think I hear you saying, Chair Farahi or Vice -Chair Farahi that you want or acknowledging a police commissioner or Bertch's comment about being behind the eighth ball trying to project, for example, this Commission is able to do an increase. It could vote on an increase—whatever that may be—whether it's to make up the deficit for not having increases for the last five years or not—whatever your rationale is. And you can, likewise, also include annual increases going forward to cover, for example, the fact that this Commission may not meet for the next five years—if not longer or sooner, right—that would already cover annual increases going forward, if you wanted to. So, it sounds like I think, Vice -Chair Farahi, you're indicating a desire to have that ability. You have that ability now. It's just cannot be based on merit. So, I just want to clarify that. You can do that. This Commission can do that now. You could do step increases—it was suggested Bargaining Unit 13 was the one to follow and track as being most similarly situated to the appointed individuals and department heads before your consideration. You can do that in addition to doing increases—it just cannot be based on merit. So, that's my clarification. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. I think we are getting to where we need to be. Just Page 23 Salary Commission MS. GREENBAUM: Agreed. August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL the merit are performance thing, increment, longevity, whatever the bloody thing is called has to be considered in the back of our mind to justify the 18 or whatever number you're talking about. And there is no law that prohibit us from saying to the County, "For God's sakes, don't keep doing the same thing again and again for another five years"—and then the police commissioner will say not police commissioner—police chief leaves and you can't hire another one because you're now here, again. Three years from now, you're here again. We can make those recommendation, whether they take it or not, we have made our professional obligation—have met—to tell them there has to be this. And, if we're allowed to, to say, "Give a longevity or a performance-based system" unions hate performance-based system. They call it longevity or increments but that's okay. And when you did that, you created that ladder. First ladder is, we're behind the eighth ball—given to 18 percent. Let's say that's the number you drop or (inaudible). Put that on the column and say now, "What else needs to be done?" MS. NAMAHOE: So, that we can useI didn't mean to interrupt you, sir—but so that we can use the language that is safe and is that we can all—what I'd like to do is just make sure we're using the same vocabulary. So, we're looking at a parity math, parity increase? ACTING CHR FARAHL A fair adjustment. MS. NAMAHOE: Okay. An adjustment a parity adjustment and then going forward, an inflationary increase—an annual inflationary increase. And I know that— ACTING hat ACTING CHR FARAHL Cost of living. MS. NAMAHOE: Cost of living increase. Thank you. Okay. So, then that way we don't— we're on'twe're not using words that are outside of the scope of our Commission. So, we're taking parity, adjustment, and cost of living, right? ACTING CHR FARAHL And a recommendation in the long-term— MS. NAMAHOE: Recommendation. ACTING CHR FARAHL that come up with some kind of a performance system, so you're not MS. GREENBAUM: No. It can't be performance-based at all. MS. NAMAHOE: Right. Page 24 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 MS. GREENBAUM: I think that's not our job. That's not our respons that is something that we have to remove ourselves from. MR. NELSON: But I think Mr. Farahi is just saying we can recommend it to the council. The council can reject it. MS. GREENBAUM: Oh, gotcha. MR. NELSON: But I do believe yes, that should—there should be performance -base in every job. It should be recommended. Now, we can't do it. We just tell them, "Here's the salary adjustment. And, oh, by the way, going forward, you guys should change the charter to do that." I believe we would be allowed to do that, we just can't make a dollar merit adjustment. MS. FRENZ: This is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. Might I suggest, if you guys are considering doing that, that you completely separate and parse that out from the task before you. I don't want anyone claiming you stepped outside of your powers and authority, under the charter, and try to set aside any action that you may take by filing in circuit court. It's you are free to have a conversation, Vice -Chair Farahi, with the mayor, with the department of human resources, with your elected officials—separate and apart from that, you want to do a separate recommendation. I just don't want' any cloud on any action, if any, that this Commission shall take by going outside of its purview. I just I got to be the stickler to keep those separate and apart. I'm sorry. Vice -Chair Farahi, commissioner—Police Commissioner Bertsch still has hand up. Is this commission going to allow him to further address this body. Is that okay? ACTING CHR FARAHL Sure. MR. BERTSCH: Thank you. Thank you so much. One of the comments that was made very early on was that we need to think of the political ramifications of the salary increases. And I just would like to offer this to the Commission the basic tenant of the charter in establishing the Salary Commission is actually to take politics out of it. You guys are the experts that have been appointed by the mayor and confirmed by county council to provide an expertise and make recommendations with regards to salary increases. Whether they're perceived as favorable or unfavorable, depending on whether you're paying or receiving the bottom line is that we—and we're of the same commission on the police side. We absolutely have to take political influences out of our decision-making process, which is why we are a citizens board that's appointed. And that's what I want to convey with you guys because we are often tasked with making the hard decisions, and making those decisions that we can stand by and be firm about them, and Page 25 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 without the influence of politics. Because if we were to be guided by politics, we would be in a lot of trouble and a world of hurt. I do agree with the conversation. Secondly, I do agree with the conversation with regards to establishing a mechanism that prohibits or discourages the parity issue. I can tell you it's my understanding from previous exchanges with the Salary Commission, that the Salary Commission can address that just annually or at your quarterly meetingif, at any point in time that these salaries become below what we would consider (inaudible) or industry standard you folks can arbitrarily or through deliberations, increase the salaries of any of these individuals. And so, that's the purpose of the Salary Commission, is to monitor these salaries, be able to provide good, thoughtful, intelligent recommendations—and increase those salaries. And so, regardless of whether you guys pick your the 18 percent is going get us to today, we need to project out, so that you guys aren't having to have this argument every month or every quarter when you meet, so that you can focus on the business at -hand. And, possibly, re -look at your rules and decide if there's another mechanism that you can put in place, which we've often argued or the deputy chief makes 5 percent more than the highest paid subordinate—and the chief makes 10 percent more than the highest paid subordinate. You guys would establish the base salaries but then that escalating slide scale would still go up. So, it's basically provides you guys with the judicial groundwork that enables you folks to complete and do your task in an a -political type of setting. With that, I yield. Thank you. ACTING CHR FARAHL Point clearly made. Anybody else? So, let me summarize it again. We need to come up with some sort of a objective justification for putting that column in place. And that objective justification is the parity adjustment. Correct? We're calling it a parity adjustment, put that number in. That number is based upon what other people have gotten. Correct? What the increments, cost of living, and the base adjustment aspect. So, now that's the first part. This column is based on that. And then the issue becomes, in each one of those rows of that column, we need to put information of why a particular position is adjusted even higher than that number, or lower than that number, or left the same place. And I don't think so and I still insist on that one—that it's not—we're not recommending the establishment of a merit system because it's not in our authority to do that. But when we complete this task, there's nothing that stops this Commission the way I read it—nothing—to suggest to the County that you will continuously be behind the eighth ball unless you establish an annual system of cost of living increase in an (inaudible) system of performance-based adjustment to the positions that are not unions. Go ahead. MR. RIORDAN: That's our job. We're the ones that (inaudible) we don't tell the county council to do that. We set that salary increase, if we want to do that. And there's been suggestions that we follow Business Unit 13. And I think we can get into those weeds later—but if we start with something where we can have a thing and say, "This looks good"—and then Page 26 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 going forward from that we say, "We want it to match Business Unit 13" or as the police commissioner said based on the highest pay of the person, the subordinateI'm not really in favor that—but I think that we can look at something like Business Unit 13 and say okay they get a raise because everyone that reports to these people, the EM's, that's how they get their raises. Business Unit 13 gets a raise they get a raise—even though they're not in the unit. And so, that's how they've been able the director now has a person in his department that makes more than him because Business Unit 13 has gotten 18 percent raises—an accumulation of that. ACTING CHR FARAHL Can we ask the human resources to create that column? MS. GREENBAUM: Commissioner Farahi? ACTING CHR FARAHL Yes? MS. GREENBAUM: What I'm going to do is, if it's something that's okay with the Salary Commission, I'll do a spreadsheet that shows the current County salaries for each position as of 7/l/23. The next column would be the 18 percent parity adjustment increase, and then something to—in the next column, I got to think about what's going to be palatable that indicates why we might want to consider—let me think about that next column. But the fourth column would be the inflationary increase for the—maybe the following year or two years. ACTING CHR FARAHL Cost of living. MS. GREENBAUM: So that you have something to look at just for the Hawaii County. We already know what the other counties are doing, but just one spreadsheet that's palatable and easy to process. `Cause I'm ACTING CHR FARAHL There's one thing that I don't know. Are these ones that you adjusted the last one for the other comparable counties? They have gone through a salary commission and adjusted that number? MS. GREENBAUM: Yes. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. They have similar MS. NAMAHOE: It's here on the top column it says, "Effective 7/1/23"—ours still say 7/1/22; Maui's is 7/l/23—so both Honolulu County and Maui County, it's effective July 2023. However, Kauai to calendar year January 2023. So, we're also the one in arrears. We're the ones that have a parity position to negotiate or to address. One more thing I do want to say because I heard it when council friends brought it up. From the process of whenever we want to make suggestions, I would like to say at the end of our work, we need to face—if that's a decision that we make, we have to sit on that side of the table. The Page 27 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 lawmakers are the county council—if they were to make anything that's even within their purview, then that would be the discussion at that time. But 1 -just doing a little bit of googling yes, we got to see—we have the benefit of social media showing us how some of the elected officials for the City and County of Honolulu reacted. But there's some history there as well in the other counties. It is really important to me that—no, we don't have to break the law to create a scandal but I would like us to err on the side of squeaky clean, hitting no guardrails, doing our proper due diligence as volunteers—and volunteers only. And my term goes all the way to the end of 2025. If there's ever a time when I would like to make a suggestion, I would wait until 2026 when I could say it from that side of the dais where I have no more kuleana left to the County of this Commission. I would like all of us to consider that being a perspective because today, a lot of people don't understand, we are not paid commissioners. We were nominated by the executive office—executive branch—we had to be approved by the legislative—we have to stick in our lanes. That would be my only thought on that. I agree with a lot of what we're saying, but let's make that a timely—let us come up with those solutions and then voice it at the time when we are absolutely beyond repute. That's it. ACTING CHR FARAHL Point well -taken. Let's get back to the spreadsheet that we need to have. What else do you need in it? What else? MS. GREENBAUM: I do apologize, Commissioner Farahi, I want to keep it as simple as possible, `cause there are time restraints on my part as well. I just want to stick to what's very pertinent and important as a starting point. MS. FRENZ: If I could jump in, this is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. ACTING CHR FARAHL Sure. MS. FRENZ: I think—I've heard a lot already today about every—most—some of you raising concerns about this being expeditiously done, time-sensitive—given the number of years that have passed since a raise has last been granted by this Commission for the people being affected here. Might I throw out there for everyone's consideration that each and every one of you put some time and energy into coming up with what you think each of the affected parties should be getting as a raise today, and what you thinkindividual lyif at all, there should be increases for the next, say, five years. Because I think when we look at howI know Vice -Chair Farahi has raised concern about action, right. We have many processes by which we must comply with our rules and the charter before this body can take any formal action, by way of a vote. Page 28 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 We have to run—once you think you know what you want to do, I have to draft proposed Findings of Fact—and that has to run in the newspaper. We have to provide the public notice, then we come back, and we hear public testimony. So, there are multiple steps that we are so far from. And I think if we—if this body relies on Commissioner Greenbaum doing a spreadsheet to show 18 percent, we could do that right now. We could compute 18 percent, right now, for each of the salaries before you. But I think, to be more proactive, you might want to consider actually everyone, in here, including those that are not present, getting—if we have a motion, for example, to add to our agenda at the next hearing to come back and have a conversation on what each of you think. As Acting Director Patel said, we need a starting point to have a conversation about some actual numbers. And if we rely on just 18 percent, we're going to continue to say, "Then what's after the 18 percent" versus you all do that on your own and come back ready to present to the rest of your constituents or to the rest of your Commissioners. Just throwing that out there to ensure we continue this forward progress—and each have individuals thoughts that you can then, thereafter, discuss amongst yourself at our next hearing. MR. NELSON: Excellent. You're right. And that's actually what my thought was—we got the spreadsheet—okay, there's an 18 percent. And then everybody go back and look at all the information that we got, `cause everybody gave and justify what they think it ought to be. We got the comparison with the other counties, and then everybody comes up with their own what they think it ought to be like—and I do agree. But the thing about it, we need the spreadsheet before the next meeting so that we can all look at it. And we can look at it beforehand and do our homework and mark it up and come to the next meeting with that—with our thoughts on the spreadsheet. MS. GREENBAUM: Perfect. MS. FRENZ: So, this is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. Maybe if there were, say, for example, a motion asking director—Acting Director Patel to add an additional chart or Commissioner Greenbaum but, basically, if we could get that chart, for example, in a week—if that's doable. I mean, just as to the 18 percent, right. MS. GREENBAUM: Yes. MS. FRENZ: And have an additional chart, say, for example, whatever this Commission were to decide, needs to be the "cost of living," "inflation going forward" column and that can be disseminated via our amazing secretary, Glynis Yamada, to everyone so they have that with ample time to do their homework between now and the next hearing. And, also, with expectations that, I would say, frankly, at least a week in advance of our next hearing that that be provided back to Glynis to disseminate to everyone, become part of our board packet, right— because, ightbecause, again, Sunshine Law applies to everything we do here—and have a frank and forthright, fruitful, conversation at the next hearing. Page 29 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 MS. GREENBAUM: That's excellent. I'll have it by next week. MS. NAMAHOE: Okay. This is Commissioner Namahoe. I'd like to make a motion ACTING CHR FARAHL Go ahead. MS. NAMAHOE: This is Commissioner Namahoe. I'd like to make a motion, please, that wait—let me table the motion and get some clarification first. MR. PATEL: Yeah. I would say, so we can prepare spreadsheets but in order for us do that— because hatbecause this seat is ex-officio—so none voting—in order for us to do that, you would need to tell us exactly what you wanted. Sounds like there's some open column questions that Commissioner Greenbaum wanted to include. So, in that vein, I would suggest that if Commissioner Greenbaum is willing, she can create the spreadsheet because, again, it's a starting point proposal from a voting commissioner, at that point. Provide that to the Commission in advance and then—like, Commissioner Nelson said everyone else can mark it up and be ready to discuss at the next meeting. MS. GREENBAUM: Yes. I'll go ahead and take on that responsibility and shoot it out soon Glynis, next weekI'm going to shoot for Monday, so that everybody has ample time to do their own homework and make their recommendations. ACTING CHR FARAHL So, what's the motion on the floor? MS. NAMAHOE: I'm now, kind ofI'm a little—yeah, I'm a little pensive about the language to make the motion. I think the goal is to put "New Business" on the next agenda, which I know wouldI mean, it can take the motion format to I'm trying toI guess, well, Commissioner Greenbaum volunteered to do it, my only reluctance in that versus the ex -officio position of HR is that that is more—it's more official if it comes from your department? I mean, as a starting point, we want to make sure that the goal—we need the right anchors. And I know that it's just—it's as simple times 18 percent. ACTING CHR FARAHL I think we got it. Direct the Human Resources that this 41-dash— whatever this thing is (inaudible) column (inaudible) 18 percent—and leave an extra column open for individual commissioners to make their suggestions. MS. GREENBAUM: Okay. So, Commi ACTING CHR FARAHL Yeah, go ahead. MS. GREENBAUM: Farahi and Namahoe basically, all I'm doing is I'm taking what human resources has provided us, as far as the "Executive Salary Jurisdiction Comparison" taking the Page 30 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 column from the Hawaii County and then doing the 18 percent increase, and then another column, as Commissioner Farahi stated, that would allow each of us Commissioners to indicate—make notes as to why we think there should be an increase or not. And then, maybe another column yes, just one extra column for that. MS. NAMAHOE: So, the motion that I'm putting on the floor is that for "New Business" next time, that we address the table that Commissioner Greenbaum is preparing for us, which will include an additional column of 18 percent, as we look at parity/adjustment math numbers as a starting point. That, next month we are able to—that that will be the primary discussion for the September meeting. That's my motion. Is there a second? MS. GREENBAUM: I second the motion. ACTING CHR. FARAHL Anybody else? MS. FRENZ: Discussion. ACTING CHR FARAHL Go ahead. MS. FRENZ: Robert's Rules of Order require discussion. Is there any discussion on the motion? ACTING CHR FARAHL Yes, there is. MS. NAMAHOE: All in favoraye`a `ole? MS. FRENZ: Vice -Chair Farahi, you said, "Yes, there is." Do you have discussion? ACTING CHR FARAHL Yes. MS. FRENZ: Go ahead. Turn on your microphone, sir. ACTING CHR FARAHL I asked that you say a suggested parity adjustment—suggested—in other words, create multiple options of that, if you're volunteering to do that. MS. NAMAHOE: The motion is to add an agenda item to next month, which is to address to consider the table that Commissioner Greenbaum is making for discussion for the Commissioners in the September meeting. That's the motion on the floor. ACTING CHR FARAHL Correct. Is there a second? MS. FRENZ: There already was a second, Chair. ACTING CHR FARAHL Any amendments? Any discussion? Page 31 Salary Commission FEMALE: (Inaudible) for the question. August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL Anything? Anyone? Okay. My one amendment is leave in that spreadsheet one column open and email it to us in excel spreadsheet or whatever spreadsheet you use, so we could jut down our own stuff and have a much more robust conversation when we come back. MS. GREENBAUM: Excellent. MS. NAMAHOE: All in favor, say aye. ACTING CHR FARAHL If that adjustment is you're not supposed to do that. MS. NAMAHOE: Yeah, I know—sorry. ACTING CHR FARAHL You're used to it. MS. NAMAHOE: Well ACTING CHR FARAHL It was a mistake. All in favor say aye? Opposed? Abstentions? The voice vote was as follows: AYES: Commissioners Farahi, Dudoit, Greenbaum, Nakama, Namahoe, Nelson, and Riordan — 7 OPPOSED: None. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Kawa`auhau and Chair Pavao — 2. ACTING CHR FARAHL So, we have the motion is passed. Anything else? Move to adjourn— MS. djourn MS. FRENZ: No, sorry, Chair. We have Number 6 "Unfinished Business" we still have agenda items. MR. NELSON: So, I just do have one question. We got all this input from all theI was looking at the input from all of the different departments. I did not see one for the fire department. Did we have one? Did I just miss that? I couldn't find it or MS. FRENZ: Just to yeah, this is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz. So, yes, two things. You did not have one—we do not have one from the fire department. Secondly, my understanding from a colleague who represents the fire commission, is they were short—while they did have quorum at their most recent meeting, they were short what they thought an integral part of the conversation/topic member. And so, they did not approve a motion to amend the Page 32 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 agenda. The letter was received too late for their posting, to add it to the agenda. The commission did not approve an amendment, so they will not be discussing this until their hearing next month—or this month rather. MR. NELSON: Okay. So, we're just going to have to look at their stuff without their input? MS. FRENZ: That's correct. MR. NELSON: Okay. MS. FRENZ: We are required by the charter to make the conferral. We have made the conferral, if they choose not to respond that is their choice. MR. NELSON: Okay. Is there anybody else that we didn't get? I mean, I just came down with a list I don't know if we're missing anybody else that was—should have got. MR. PATEL: You didn't get one from the merit appeals board either. Their meeting is at the end of this month. MR. NELSON: Which group is that? MR. PATEL: Merit appeals board. So, that's the appointing authority for the HR director. MR. NELSON: Okay. All right. New Business (Item 5) (There were none.) Unfinished Business (Item 6) A. Creation Of Permitted Interaction Groups For Salary Commission Inquiries (Note: At Its Meeting Held On June 8, 2023, This Matter Was Tabled For Further Discussion); And B. Review Of Existing Compensation Plan To Include Discussion And Consideration Of Ideas For Adjustments To Future Salaries Of Executives And Officials. (Note: This Matter Was Listed On The July 11, 2023, Agenda) ACTING CHR FARAHL Anything else the unfinished business? (Inaudible), counselor? MS. FRENZ: Yes. We need to address both items from unfinished business that—first, starting, if we could discuss 6A. It sounds as though—we have tabled this issue of create the creation of a permitted interactive group for some time—well, this is our third hearing. Sounds like this body appears to be their preference, currently, is to move forward collectively. So, if that continues to be the case, we can take this off the agenda. We don't need to continue Page 33 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 tabling it—if and when this Commission decides it may have a need for one, you are free to address it at that time. So, is there anything further that—or is this Commission okay with removing this from next month's agenda. MR. NELSON: I'll make a motion to remove it. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. There's a second? MR. RIORDAN: I second itDennis. ACTING CHR. FARAHL Any discussion? MR. PATEL: Sorry—so just to clarify, the motion is to postpone agenda Item 6A and B indefinitely—is that what I'm hearing? ACTING CHR FARAHL Table it. MR. PATEL: Postpone— MS. FRENZ: I think I only addressed 6A. MR. NELSON: It was just 6A. MR. PATEL: Okay. So, to postpone it indefinitely or table it at the call of the chair. MR. NELSON: Just remove it from our agenda. ACTING CHR FARAHL Do you want it removed or tabled? Counselor, you want it removed or tabled? MS. FRENZ: I think it's up to this Commission. If you want to have it tabled and the chair can re -raise it in the event it appears this Commission may want to create a permitted interactive group you can do that. Or you can—if it's clear, collectively amongst you all today, we don't have our entire membership present, right, for example. However, if it's clear to you all today that you're going to move collectively as a body as opposed to creating a PIG to have a recommendation brought back to you all, then you can remove it indefinitely. It's really up to you. MR. NELSON: If we remove it, we could always bring it back, right. Yeah. So, I think we just remove it. I recommend we remove it entirely. ACTING CHR FARAHL Let's remove the (inaudible). We have a motion Page 34 Salary Commission COMMISSIONER: Second. August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR. FARAHL Anda second. Any discussions? All in favor say aye? Opposed? Abstentions? The voice vote was as follows: AYES: Commissioners Farahi, Dudoit, Greenbaum, Nakama, Namahoe, Nelson, and Riordan — 7 OPPOSED: None. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Kawa`auhau and Chair Pavao — 2. ACTING CHR FARAHL The motion is passed. B. Review Of Existing Compensation Plan To Include Discussion And Consideration Of Ideas For Adjustments To Future Salaries Of Executives And Officials (Note: This Matter Was Listed On The July 11, 2023, Agenda) ACTING CHR FARAHL 6B. MS. NAMAHOE: Yeah, I think that 6B is the unfinished business. I move that we bring it up, again, next month on the agenda. MR. RIORDAN: I second that. ACTING CHR FARAHL Any discussions? All in favor? Against? Abstentions? The voice vote was as follows: AYES: Commissioners Farahi, Dudoit, Greenbaum, Nakama, Namahoe, Nelson, and Riordan — 7 OPPOSED: None. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Kawa`auhau and Chair Pavao — 2. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. MS. FRENZ : If I could clarify. I don't believe I could see Commissioner Nakama's voting either way. Her box isn't lighting up. I just want to make sure that she is, in fact, voting. Commissioner Nakama? MS. NAKAMA: Yes, I'm voting. MS. FRENZ: And so, to clarify—for point 6 motion, as to 6A and 613did you vote "aye" as to both ma'am? Page 35 Salary Commission MS. NAKAMA: Yes. MS. FRENZ: Thank you. Announcements (Item 7) August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. Any "Announcements" we have to make? Ms. Yamada, do we have any announcements to make? MR. RIORDAN: Yes, Commissioner I this is Commissioner Riordan. I'd like to make a point of thanking the people that all responded to our letter, to go on record saying that we appreciated the information they gave us and the police commission showing up for our hearing. MS. FRENZ: And I would just indicate this is Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody FrenzI anticipate you'll be hearing from many more parties. My chair of the police commission had hoped to be here. He had a schedule conflict at the last minute or he would have been joining John Bertsch. I anticipate you will hear from many more going forward. We have members of the prosecutor's office here and I think we have some watching. You can anticipate more conversation, I would presume—especially after we publish our proposed findings. ACTING CHR FARAHL Let's make a motion to express our gratitude and appreciation for those who had responded and looking forward to the responses of those who haven't had an opportunity to do so. Is there— MS. NAMAHOE: I'd like to also piggy -back on what Cody—excuse me—Counsel Frenz had just mentioned. I think we were fortunate enough that we had only one public testimony to deal with this time, but when it starts we're going to need the clock. We're going to need to make sure that we have that we can control the time of that—'cause, otherwise, it's going to get away from us. ACTING CHR FARAHL It doesn't require a motion. MS. FRENZ: The clock would be me. ACTING CHR FARAHL Yes. MS. FRENZ: When the time comes. ACTING CHR FARAHL Well, normally, three to four minutes per individual and the chair would monitor that and say, "Could you wrap it up, please?" And I think Ms. Yamada would have multiple clocks available? MS. FRENZ: Again, that would be me. Page 36 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL Right here, Cody, how's the clock. Okay? Motion on the floor is for gratitude for those departments who have responded. Looking forward to those who has yet to respond. MS. FRENZ: Just to clarify, Chair, are you looking to have some sort of written memorandum thanking them or isI'm just wondering if we need a motion. ACTING CHR FARAHL Yeah, the motion is fine. And we'll convey the motion to everybody. Okay. And you know how to write it, right? MS. FRENZ: I do not. I don't know that—well, we don't have a second nor do we have a vote as to ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. MS. FRENZ: That's why I clarified, Chair, if we're doing a written thank you, then we need a motion. If we're just acknowledging here, in our open session, I think, we don't need a motion. MR. RIORDAN: I was just acknowledging it. I don't think we need to send out any more letters or emails to people. I just wanted to go on the record, if anyone's listening or reading our minutes that we appreciate it. ACTING CHR FARAHL That's you motion. MR. DUDOIT: I'll second the motion ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. The motion is to acknowledge the participation that—of those who has responded with gratitude, and look forward to the responses that are forthcoming. Let the record indicate that. All in favor? MS. FRENZ: Any further just to clarify—discussion. ACTING CHR. FARAHL Any further discussion? Ms. Robert's Rule came in, in there. MS. FRENZ: That's why I'm here for. ACTING CHR FARAHL Any discussion on this motion? All in favor say aye. Oppose say no. Abstention indicates (inaudible). The voice vote was as follows: AYES: Commissioners Farahi, Dudoit, Greenbaum, Nakama, Namahoe, Nelson, and Riordan — 7 OPPOSED: None. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Kawa`auhau and Chair Pavao — 2. Page 37 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR FARAHL The motion has passed. And, Ms. Yamada, let the record indicate that that motion (inaudible). Any other thing? Schedule Next Meeting Date (Item 8) MS. FRENZ: Next meeting date. If—for those of us that are present here today. I believe we have a tentative date but I'd like to firm that up. It's September 7'-1 believe is our tentative holding date. Is everyone present with us today, available? I see Commissioner Greenbaum indicating yes. MS. GREENBAUM: Yes. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Nakama. MS. NAKAMA: No. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Dudoit. MR. DUDOIT: Yes. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Riordan. MR. RIORDAN: Yes. MS. FRENZ: Vice -Chair Farahi. ACTING CHR FARAHL Don't know—grandpa duties, I have to check. If I have to take the kids to school, I'm not here. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Namahoe. MS. NAMAHOE: Aye. MS. FRENZ: Commissioner Nelson. MR. NELSON: I think so. MS. NAKAMA: I do have it on the 6h. MS. FRENZ: Unfortunately, not. There's a lot of scheduling that goes into it. I do think, if maybe we could take a few minutes to make sure. The more of us present, the better. If we have members or Commissioners not present, it is really hard to continue the forward progress movements, especially if we want to afford everyone an opportunity to weigh in, right, from every district—which is the point of having district -wide representation. Page 38 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 So, having everyone present isas much as possible, is critical. And Vice -Chair Farahi, our meetings don't start till 7 so, hopefully, that might help with you ACTING CHR FARAHL Seven at night? MS. FRENZ: I'm sorry -10 a.m. So, hopefully, that might help you with the grandchildren drop-off schedules. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. It does. MS. FRENZ: Great. ACTING CHR FARAHL Thank you. MS. NAKAMA: Could we have itCommissioner Teresa Nakama—could we have it on any other date except Fridays? That's a tough date for me. MS. FRENZ: So, the September 7h is a Thursday. MS. NAKAMA: A Thursday? MS. FRENZ: Yes, ma'am. MS. NAKAMA: Okay. Thursday's good. MS. FRENZ: Great. Okay. ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. Any other business to come before this Commission? MS. FRENZ: So, next meeting date to clarify for the record—September 7, 2023, 10 a.m., Hilo Council Chambers, this location. Anybody at this time know—Commissioner Greenbaum, appearing via ZOOM next time as well? MS. GREENBAUM: Yes, ZOOM. MS. FRENZ: Okay. Thank you. All right, that's I believe everything, Chair. Adiournment (Item 9) ACTING CHR FARAHL Okay. Any motion to adjourn? MR. NELSON: I'll make a motion to adjourn. MS. NAMAHOE: Second. Page 39 Salary Commission August 4, 2023 ACTING CHR. FARAHI: Any discussion? MS. FRENZ: Good job. Thank you. ACTING CHR. FARAHI: All in favor say yes. The voice vote was as follows: AYES: Commissioners Farahi, Dudoit, Greenbaum, Nakama,Namahoe, Nelson, and Riordan—7 OPPOSED: None. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Kawa'auhau and Chair Pavao—2. ACTING CHR. FARAHI: We're adjourned. MS. FRENZ: Adjourned at 11:49 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Glynis amada, Secretary-Reporter APPROVED: Dawood (. :rahi, Acting Chair Salary C mm sion Page 40 . Submitted by HR Acting Director Danny B. Patel (Update reflects City and County of Honolulu only) RCUD HUMAN RESOURCES 2023 AUG 3 PM4:03 Executive Salary Jurisdiction Comparisons POSITIONS STATE' C&C HONOLULU HAWAII MAUI KAUA'12 EFFECTIVE DATES: 1/1/23 7/1/23 7/1/22 7/1/23 1/1/23 (EXCEPT AS NOTED) GOVERNOR $180,348 LT.GOVERNOR $179,316 ADMIN DIRECTOR of the STATE $179,316 MAYOR $209,856 $162,582 $159,578 $149,165 M.D./ADMIN. ASS'T./DIR. $200,712 $153,612 $156,149 $143,873 DEPUTY M.D. $190,296 $132,744 $140,534 PROS ATTY $198,888 $153,228 $164,831 $143,873 1ST DEPUTY PA $189,096 $145,968 $156,589 $129,484 DEPUTIES: PA, Corp Counsel $59,112-$188.928(PA) $79,656-$137,904(PA) $140,252-$142,877 $123,808 $75,144-$183,216(CC) $85,812-$137,904(CC) $147,265(CC) DEPT. HEADS DAGS, DBEDT, DCCA, DHHL, $170,784 DHS, OUR, DLNR, DOA, DOH, DOT, PSD,TAX BUDGET&FINANCE $179,316 $187,488 $132,726 $137,0043 $134,883 ATTORNEY GENERAUCORP COUNSEL $179,316 $192,864 $153,228 $164,831 $143,873 HUMAN RESOURCES $170,784 $187,488 $128,628 $147,695 $129,484 INFO TECH $187,488 $126,420 POLICE $231,648 $153,270 $175,133 $143,873 FIRE $224,304 $151,2004 $166,793 $143,8734 MEDICAL EXAMINER $363,144 EMERGENCY SERVICES $187,488 PLANNING $187,488 $132,744 $151,425 $134,883 PUBLIC WORKS $132,582 $161,270 $143,8735 DESIGN&CONSTRUCTION $187,488 FACILITIES MAINTENANCE $187,488 ENVIRONMENTAL SVCS/MGT $187,488 $132,744 $153,590 LIQUOR A $126,420 $153,393 $123,808 WATER $199,517.766(7/1/20) $159,6006(1/1/21) $157,393 $143,873 CUSTOMER SERVICES $187,488 ENTERPRISE SERVICES $187,488 HOUSING $126,420 $140,945(&HC) $129,484 COMMUNITY SERVICES $187,488 LAND MANAGEMENT $187,488 PARKS $187,488 $128,760 $148,888 $134,883 RESEARCH& DEV./ECONOMIC DEV. $126,420 $123,808 ROYAL HAWAIIAN BAND $177,888 TRANSPORTATION $187,488 $139,340 AGRICULTURE $114,000 DEPUTIES DAGS, DBEDT, DCCA, DHHL, $148,572- DHS, DLIR, DLNR, DOA, DOH, $157,104 DOT, PSD,TAX BUDGET&FINANCE $1640$156, 964 $177,888 $126,402 $130,1753 $129,484 1ST DEPUTY AG/CORP $156,000 $183,216 $145,968 $156,589 $129,484 COUNSEL $164,964 SALARY COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII Comm.No. 23-12 ATT. A Date P/August 4, 2023 POSITIONS STATE' C&C HONOLULU HAWAII MAUI KAUKI2 EFFECTIVE DATES: 1/1/23 7/1/23 7/1/22 7/1/23 1/1/23 (EXCEPT AS NOTED) $148,572- M $122,628 $132,925 HUMAN RESOURCES $157,104 INFO TECH $177,888 POLICE $220,944 $145,968 $166,376 $129,484 FIRE $213,912 $143,6404 $166,376 $129,4844 MEDICAL EXAMINER $354,168 EMERGENCY SERVICES $177,888 PLANNING $177,888 $126,420 $136,283 $123,808 PUBLIC WORKS $126,264 $145,144 $129,4845 DESIGN&CONSTRUCTION $177,888 FACILITIES MAINTENANCE $177,888 ENVIRONMENTAL SVCS/MGT $177,888 $126,420 $138,232 LIQUOR $131,479 WATER $190,448.766(7/1/20) $151,6206(1/1/21) $140,487 $129,484 CUSTOMER SERVICES $177,888 ENTERPRISE SERVICES $177,888 HOUSING $126,851 (&HC) COMMUNITY SERVICES $177,888 LAND MANAGEMENT $177,888 PARKS $177,888 $122,628 $134,000 $129,484 RESEARCH&DEV/ECONOMIC DEV. $113,778 TRANSPORTATION $177,888 $125,406 AGRICULTURE $102,600 LEGISLATIVE BRANCH 1/1/23 7/1/23 7/1/22 7/1/23 1/1/23 SPEAKERS/PRES $81,024 MEMBERS HSE/SEN $72,348 COUNCIL CHAIRPERSON $123,288 $77,016 $86,336 $80,390 COUNCIL MEMBERS $113,304 $70,008 $80,299 $71,354 COUNTY CLERK $187,488 $126,420 $156,982 $134,883 DEPUTY COUNTY CLERK $113,778 $149,132 $129,484 COUNTY AUDITOR $187,488 $126,420 $151,781 $134,883 'State departments have statewide responsibility for all islands. 2 Salaries for the County of Kauai reflects the maximum salary each position may be compensated at. The respective appointing authority may set the salary of any new or existing non-elected appointee at a figure lower than the maximum salary. 3 Maui's Budget&Finance does not include Budget. "Hawaii's Fire includes Emergency Medical Services and Ocean Safety; Kauai Fire includes Ocean Safety 5 Kauai's Public Works includes Environmental 6 Salary set by Water Board For Maui's Prosecuting Attorney and Corporation Counsel deputies,appointing authority can set the salary 20%higher or lower than the salary range,provided that the salary does not exeed that of the 1st Deputy. ^City's Liquor Commission is headed by a civil service employee and is administratively assigned to the Department of Budget and Fiscal Services. ^^City's HR Deputy is a Civil Service position Last Updated 6/30/2023 Mach&D. Roth Wayten L.K. Leopokfttw Mayor Director of Human*sources 4Vt-11:::"'illY: Danny 13. Pate/ • - J Deputy Director of Hunum Resources *P'.4 44*^ HJMW:30tiffCi:S 2023 JON 6 i-P.10:Vii County cfHawaifi Department of Human Resources Aupuni Center•101 Pandit Street,Suite 2•Hdo,Hawai'i 96720• (808)961-8361 •fax(808)961-8617 website:hnimihawattzolulty.9ovihurruin-rebources e-mad.06.serAnmcomugo,y To: Salary Commission Members From: Waylen L. K. Leopoldino, Director of Human Resources Date: June 6, 2023 Subject: Scheduled Collective Bargaining Pay Increases As a part of my informational briefing at the Salary Commission meeting scheduled on June 8, 2023, please find enclosed a copy of the scheduled collective bargaining pay increases. The applicable bargaining units to review would be: o BU-01: Blue Collar o BU-02: Blue Collar Supervisory o BU-03: White Collar o BU-04: White Collar Supervisory o BU-11: Fire Fighters o BU-12: Police Officers o BU-13: Professional & Scientific o BU-15: Ocean Safety and Water Safety Officers If you have any questions, please contact Jamie Martines, Human Resources Manager, at 808-961-8361. WLKL:gy Enclosure SALARY COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII Comm.No. 2 3—05 Date P/June 8, 2023 Hawail.County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Erntiover. ATT. B PAY INCREASES 02/24/2023 JULY 1,2021-JUNE 30,2025 1 of 3 BU 01,61 July 1, 2021 $1,000 lump sum payment October 1, 2022 3.72%ATB increase July 1,2023 5.0%ATB increase July 1,2024 5.0%ATB increase BU 02,82 July 1,2021 1.0%lump sum payment based on June 30, 2021 annual base pay July 1,2022 3.72%ATB increase(includes former L5, B1 and Cl step employees) July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB increase(includes former L5, B1 and Cl step employees) July 1,2024 5.0%ATB increase(includes former L5, B1 and Cl step employees) BU 03,63 July 1,2021 $1,000 lump sum payment October 1, 2022 3.72%ATB increase July 1,2023 5.0%ATB increase July 1,2024 5.0%ATB increase BU 04,84 July 1, 2021 1.0%lump sum payment based on June 30,2021. annual base pay July 1, 2022 3.72%ATB increase July 1,2023 4.96%ATB increase July 1,2024 5.0%ATB increase BU 11,91 July 1, 2021 Employees receiving basic rate of pay two(2)or more steps lower than warranted by their cumulative years of service, shall move to one(1)step below their appropriate step in their salary range. July 1,2021-June 30,2022 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on FSA date. July 1,2021-June 30,2022 EEs with 28 or more years of service whose salaries are below step L6 shall be placed on L6 on FSA date. July 1, 2022 3.0%ATB increase July 1,2022 Employees receiving basic rate of pay two(2)or more steps lower than warranted by their cumulative years of service,shall move to one(1)step below their appropriate step in their salary range. July 1,2022-June 30,2023 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on FSA date. July 1,2022-June 30,2023 EEs with 28 or more years of service whose salaries are below step L6 shall be placed on L6 on FSA date. July 1, 2023 4.0%ATB increase July 1,2023 Employees receiving basic rate of pay two(2)or more steps lower than warranted by their cumulative years of service,shall move to one(1)step below their appropriate step in their salary range. July 1,2023-June 30,2024 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on FSA date. July 1,2023-June 30,2024 EEs with 28 or more years of service whose salaries are below step L6 shall be placed on L6 on FSA date. July 1, 2.024 4.0%ATB increase July 1,2024. Employees receiving basic rate of pay two(2)or more steps lower than warranted by their cumulative years of service,shall move to one (1)step below their appropriate step in their salary range. July 1,2024. -June 30,2025 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on FSA date. July 1,2024-June 30,2025 EEs with 28 or more years of service whose salaries are below step 16 shall be placed on L6 on FSA date. PAY INCREASES 02/24/2023 JULY 1,2021-JUNE 30,2025 2 of 3 BU 12,92 July 1, 2021-June 30, 2022 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on PSA date. July 1,2022 5.0%ATB increase July 1, 2022-June 30, 2023 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on PSA date. July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB increase July 1,2023-June 30,2024 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on PSA date. July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB increase July 1, 2024-June 30, 2025 Either(but not both)catch-up or service step movement on PSA date. July 1, 2024 Employees on salary ranges from P07 to P015 on June 30,2024,shall receive a one-time lump sum salary bonus based on their step within the pay range on July 1, 2024 as follows: Step A $1,800.00 Step B $1,825.00 Step C $1,850.00 Step D $1,875.00 Step L-1 $1,900.00 Step L-2 $1,925.00 Step L-3 $1,950.00 Step L-4 $1,975.00 Step L-5 $2,000.00 Step L-6 $2,000.00 BU 13,73 July 1, 2021 EEs on Step M or SRNA as of June 30,2021 shall receive a one-time lump sum payment equal to 2.0%of their annual basic rate of pay as of June 30, 2021, provided they continue to be employed as of July 1,2021. July 1, 2022 EEs who were eligible but did not receive a step movement during the period July 1, 2021 through June 30,2022 shall be placed on their appropriate step and receive such step movement effective July 1,2022. July 1, 2022 2.0%ATB increase July 1, 2022-June 30, 2023 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1,2022 through June 30, 2023 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. July 1,2023 EEs on Step C shall be placed on Step D of the corresponding pay range. July 1, 2023 4.0%ATB increase July 1, 2023-June 30,2024 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1,2023 through June 30, 2024 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. July 1, 2024 3.59%ATB increase July 1, 2024-June 30,2025 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1,2024 through June 30, 2025 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. PAY INCREASES 02/24/2023 JULY 1,2021-JUNE 30,2025 3 of 3 BU 15, 75 July 1, 2021 A one-time lump sum payment of one percent(1.0%)based on June 30, 2021 annual base salary. July 1,2021-June 30,2022 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1,2021 through June 30, 2022 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. July 1,2022 3.0%ATB increase July 1,2022-June 30,2023 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1,2022 through June 30, 2023 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. July 1, 2023 4.0%ATB increase July 1, 2023-June 30,2024 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1,2023 through June 30, 2024 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. July 1, 2024 4.0%ATB increase July 1,2024-June 30, 2025 EEs who become eligible for step movements from July 1, 2024 through June 30, 2025 shall receive their step movements on their step movement dates. BU31 July 1, 2021 EEs who were employed as of June 30,2021 shall receive a one-time lump sum payment equal to 1.0%of their June 30,2021 annual base pay. July 1, 2022 3.72%ATB increase July 1,2023 4.96%ATB increase July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB increase BU 34 July 1,2022 3.0%ATB increase July 1,2023 4.0%ATB increase July 1,2024 4.0%ATB increase July 1,.2021-June 30,2025 WIRP on WIRP date July 1, 2021-June 30,2025 EEs with a lower than warranted basic rate of pay based on their cumulative years of service: (1)as of July 1 of the fiscal year shall receive a longevity pay increase on July 1 of that fiscal year;or(2)when granted a WIRP, shall receive a longevity pay increase on their WIRP date. BU 35 July 1, 2021 EEs at the maximum rate of the salary schedule as of June 30, 2021 shall receive a one-time lump sum payment equal to 2.0%of their June 30,2021 annual base pay, provided they continue to be employed as of July 1,2021. July 1, 2022 2.0%ATB increase July 1, 2022 EEs who were elegible but did not receive a WIRP during the period of July 1, 2021 through June 30,2022 shall receive a WIRP,effective July 1,2022. July 1,2022-June 30,2023 WIRP on WIRP date July 1,2023 4.0%ATB increase July 1, 2023-June 30,2024 WIRP on WIRP date July 1,2024 3.59%ATB increase July 1,2024-June 30,2025 WIRP on WIRP date BU 36 July 1, 2022 5.0%ATB increase July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB increase July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB increase July 1, 2024 A one-time lump sum payment of$2,000.00 July 1,2021-June 30,2025 WIRP/Longevity Pay on WIRP date Mitchell D. Roth .,..-•'.711."...!• Danny B. Pate( ./ ,',.1”11',9 •'? ''i Mayor d7/ - ' .•',.1 A Artini Director of AM=Rem:wet; )i\ *J-.11._•!-4,41-.,2,-;": ; ''':..k;;1'1••les.:f"-- RCVD HUMAN RESOURCES 2023 JUL 7 f-m9:00 County of Hawaiii Department of Human Resources Aupunt Center. 101 rauethi Street,Suitt 2. Han,Hawaii 96720.(808)961 8361 • Fax(808)961-8617 websitt:fatpAaln.uticountpio_yilnunan-reAtoses e-rtutif:jo60.thawnhcountylloy July 7, 2023 To: Steven Pavao, Chair and Members of the Salary Commission 1 il k From: '"'Danny B. Patel, Acting Director Department of Human Resources Subject: Salary Commission Inquiries re the Comparison Between Department Head and the Highest Paid Subordinate Salaries Within Their Respective Department; and a History of Collective Bargaining Pay Increases for Bargaining Units 01, 02, 03, 04, 11, 12, 13, and 14/15 At the Salary Commission meeting held on June 8, 2023, there was discussion concerning salary inversions between the department head and the highest paid subordinate (employee) with their respective departments, as well as the history of bargaining unit increases over the past years through present. Please find attached a chart listing the salaries for department heads and deputies, comparing them to the highest paid civil service subordinate salaries (this does not include appointed subordinates). Also attached is a history of collective bargaining pay increases from 2018 through July 1, 2024. I look forward to addressing any questions you may have at its next meeting scheduled on July 11, 2023. DBP/gy SALARY COMMISSION Attachments COUNTY OF HAWAI'l Comm.No 23-09 Date P/July 11 , 2023 Havvai`i County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employe?. ATT. C Revised 7/10/23 Highest Paid Salary Set by Salary Subordinate* Commission (Salary as of Effective 3/1/18 07/01/23) DEPT HEAD DEPUTY DEPARTMENT SALARY SALARY SALARY CORP COUNSEL 153,228 145,968 83,388 FINANCE 132,726 126,402 144,120 HUMAN RESOURCES 128,628 122,628 115,788 PLANNING 132,744 126,420 120,276 RESEARCH & DEV 126,420 113,778 80,184 INFORMATION TECH 126,420 -- 104,736 HOUSING 126,420 -- POLICE 153,270 145,968 182,712 FIRE 151,200 143,640 134,472 LIQUOR CONTROL 126,420 -- 133,944 PROS ATTORNEY 153,228 145,968 86,712 PUBLIC WORKS 132,582 126,264 135,960 PARKS& REC 128,760 122,628 129,240 ENV MANAGEMENT 132,744 126,420 138,108 MAYOR 162,582 MANAGING DIRECTOR 153,612 DEP MANAGING DIRECTOR 132,744 COUNCIL CHAIRPERSON 77,016 COUNCIL MEMBER (8) 70,008 COUNTY CLERK 126,420 DEPUTY COUNTY CLERK 113,778 COUNTY AUDITOR 126,420 *Civil Service subordinates only. Does not include Appointed subordinates. BARGAINING UNIT("BU") TOTAL ACROSS-THE-BOARD ("ATB") PAY INCREASE HISTORY INCREASES SINCE 2018 BU 01 June 1, 2018 3.2%ATB Increase 3.20% May 1, 2019 3.45%ATB Increase 3.45% July 1, 2019 2.0%ATB Increase 2.00% January 1, 2020 1.2%ATB Increase 1.20% July 1, 2020 2.0%ATB Increase 2.00% January 1, 2021 1.2%ATB Increase 1.20% 10/1/2022 3.72%ATB Increase 3.72% July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB Increase 5.00% 21.77% Total July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB Increase BU 02 January 1, 2018 1.2%ATB Increase 1.20% July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% January 1, 2019 1.2%ATB Increase 1.20% July 1, 2020 1.2%ATB Increase 1.20% January 1, 2021 1.2%ATB Increase 1.20% July 1, 2022 3.72%ATB Increase 3.72% July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB Increase 5.00% 15.77% Total July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB Increase BU 03 January 1, 2018 1.5%ATB Increase 1.50% July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% January 1, 2019 1.25% ATB Increase 1.25% January 1, 2021 3.46%ATB Increase 3.46% October 1, 2022 3.72%ATB Increase 3.72% July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB Increase 5.00% 17.18% Total July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB Increase BU 04 January 1, 2018 1.5%ATB Increase 1.50% July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% January 1, 2019 1.25%ATB Increase 1.25% July 1, 2020 3.60%ATB Increase 3.60% January 1, 2021 3.74%ATB Increase 3.74% July 1, 2022 3.72%ATB Increase 3.72% July 1, 2023 4.96%ATB Increase 4.96% 21.02% Total July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB Increase BU 11 July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% July 1, 2019 2%ATB Increase 2.00% July 1, 2020 2%ATB Increase 2.00% July 1, 2022 3.0%ATB Increase 3.00% July 1, 2023 4.0%ATB Increase 4.00% 13.25% Total July 1, 2024 4.0%ATB Increase BU 12 July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% July 1, 2019 2%ATB Increase 2.00% July 1, 2020 2%ATB Increase 2.00% July 1, 2022 5.0%ATB Increase 5.00% July 1, 2023 5.0%ATB Increase 5.00% 16.25% Total July 1, 2024 5.0%ATB Increase BU 13 July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% July 1, 2019 2.15%ATB Increase 2.15% July 1, 2020 2.03%ATB Increase 2.03% July 1, 2022 2.0%ATB Increase 2.00% July 1, 2023 4.0%ATB Increase 4.00% - 12.43% Total July 1, 2024 3.59%ATB Increase BU 14/15 July 1, 2018 2.25%ATB Increase 2.25% July 1, 2019 4.5%ATB increas 4.50% July 1, 2020 4.5%ATB Increase 4.50% July 1, 2022 3%ATB Increase 3.00% July 1, 2023 4%ATB Increase 4.00% 18.25% Total July 1, 2024 4%ATB Increase