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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-09-04 TMAEDAsatoru PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I HEARING TRANSCRIPT SEPTEMBER 4, 2008 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of SATORU STEWART MAEDA (SPP 08-000056) was called to order at 9:59 a.m. in the County of Hawaii, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii, with First Vice-Chairman Rell Woodward presiding. PRESENT: Rell Woodward ABSENT & EXCUSED: Rodney Watanabe C. Kimo Alameda Lani Bowman Takashi Domingo Frederic Housel Andrew Iwashita Shelly Ogata Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher Yuen, Planning Director Norman Hayashi, Staff Planner Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner L`hi`Bnsskd+Rs`eeOk`mmdq And approximately 11 people from the public in attendance APPLICANT: SATORU STEWART MAEDA (SPP 08-000056) Special Permit to allow the establishment of a commercial boarding kennel, a quarantine kennel, office, and certified kitchen on 4 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located off the south side of Ihope Street, approximately 0.7 mile southwest of the Ihope Street – North Peck Road intersection, Olaa Reservation Lots, Olaa, Puna, Hawaii, TMK: 1-8-6:193. WOODWARD: Okay, the next item on the agenda is Satoru Stewart Maeda, Special Permit to allow the establishment of a commercial boarding kennel, a quarantine kennel, office, and certified kitchen on 4 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District.It looks like Maija has got this one, so you’re up. COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay, as Chairman Woodward mentioned, the next permit is a special permit application. The applicant is Stewart Maeda and he’s requesting to establish a commercial boarding kennel, office, certified kitchen and quarantine kennel on 4 acres of approximately a 23-acre parcel. The property is located in Mt. View and it’s outlined in black here. It’s off of Ihope Road. And just to kind of EXHIBIT A 1 orient you, the Volcano Highway is to the southeast here. Most of the zoning around the property Agricultural 5 acres. This is a really dark aerial photo. The property is outlined in red; and this is just to kind of show you the density of housing nearby.There are a few houses in the subdivision north of the property and then there’s a house on the lot just north of the property. But most of the area is covered in forest. Again, the proposed use is for up to 22 individual dog kennels. And then the applicant is also planning in the future to construct an office, a certified kitchen to bake dog treats to sell to the dog owners, and to clean and pack fruits and vegetables grown on the site. Also, another future project that he’s requesting approval for today is a State quarantine kennel for up to five dogs. The applicant has mentioned that he will provide a pick-up and drop-off service, and he will allow clients to visit their dogs by appointment only Monday through Friday from 9 to 5:30 and Saturday from 10 to 3. This is a site plan that shows the existing dwelling, and this is the driveway off of Ihope Road. He’s proposing a large kennel here, an office with the certified kitchen, and then the State quarantine kennel is just above that. The Planning Director recommends approval of this request to establish a commercial boarding kennel, office, certified kitchen, and quarantine kennel. Are there any questions? WOODWARD: I have a question. Why do you have to have a certified kitchen to cook dog cookies? I mean I have four dogs and they, I don’t have a certified kitchen but they eat the stuff that I cook. I’m just wondering. MAEDA: If you want me to address that? WOODWARD: Well, we’ll get to you in just a second. We’re going to ask questions of the staff first, and then you can address that when we get a chance to get your testimony. Anybody else have any questions? HOUSEL: I had one question. They’re asking for 22 kennels plus 5 additional kennels for the quarantine for a total of 27? COTTLE: Yes. The 22 will be in one structure and then 5 State quarantine kennels is in another structure. WOODWARD: Any other questions for staff? All right, seeing no more questions, if we could have the applicant and/or the representatives come up, have a seat and we’ll swear you in, and get your testimony. You can tell us why you have to have a certified kitchen to cook dog cookies. Okay, if you’ll raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth today before the County of Hawaii Planning Commission? EXHIBIT A 2 MAEDA: I do. WOODWARD: Okay. If you would speak into the microphone cause this will be part of the record. And before you begin give us your name and address, and then just tell us why you have to have a certified kitchen to get dog cookies. MAEDA: My name is Satoru Stewart Maeda. My address is PO Box 1225, Mt. View, Hawaii 96771. To address the dog treat issue, originally I had thought that I needed a certified kitchen if we were actually going to be selling dog treats; but I was informed by the Department of Health that I do not need a certified kitchen for dog treats but I do need a certified kitchen in order to process and package any fruits or vegetables. So I would still be requesting the certified kitchen. WOODWARD: All right, thank you. And then you can proceed with your presentation, if you have one. MAEDA: Okay. Well, I just wanted to let you folks know that I’m going to be operating the kennel on my own. It’s a business that I’m going to do part time. And although 22 kennels sounds like a lot, from my understanding of talking with people who operate boarding kennels, the boarding kennel business is very seasonal; and so during busy times like when school break or during summer vacation we may fill all those kennels. But during much of the other part of the year I don’t expect that we will be full all the time. I think if we’re lucky we’ll be 50 percent to 75 percent full during those other times. My road is a gravel road going into my property. My driveway is approximately 1200 feet long. And I don’t intend to have a lot of traffic. I see maybe one or two people coming at the most a day. I plan to do a drop-off and pickup service, and so I will be coming in and out of the property during parts of the day as well. I am thinking that in regards to the noise, I did present pictures of the site to the Planning Commission; and where we’re going to build it, it’s kind of in a low area. There’s an embankment and then there’s a row of trees that runs the whole length of the property. I think that is going to eliminate a lot of the noise. Another issue with noise is in the plan of the kennel we’re going to be keeping the dogs in at night so they won’t be outside in the open area. I’m using cinder block walls between the kennels to separate the dogs so that they won’t be seeing each other and barking at each other all the time. And it’s a totally enclosed building with solid walls. So during the nighttime hours when the dogs are not in their outside runs they will be inside.And if you have and owned dogs you know that dogs will react to what they see and what they hear. And I think by keeping them enclosed and making sure that we do have walls between all the kennels it will really minimize the noise effect for our neighbors. I know one of the concerns that was brought out was that there’s going to be a lot of traffic in the area, that the infrastructure would not be able to handle the traffic. I don’t believe that there will be a lot of traffic. And I don’t believe that the traffic that comes into the area is in any way going to create any danger or hazards for the community because generally people, I know one of the concerns was that there will be additional EXHIBIT A 3 people coming in, people will be proned to burglaries and other kinds of criminal property damage and things like that. Generally people who board dogs and take good care of their dogs and go on vacations are middle-class working people and they would be more likely to be the eyes of the community and would report if they saw something amissed in the community as opposed to someone that would be going to a kennel and then would later stake out the community to rob them or something like that. So I really feel like we had taken into consideration a lot of the concerns in the area. The quarantine kennel idea really was, I had brought a dog in from the mainland and it was pretty costly. And one of the things about quarantine puppies, you still have to have the 120 day quarantine and a lot of times people aren’t able to go to the kennels and spend time with their dogs when they’re bringing them in from the mainland. I really wanted to provide a service where those puppies would get a lot of socialization, would get some training during that time, and wouldn’t be just left in a cage; and that’s why I wanted to do that. I have other friends who want to bring dogs in and I really wanted to drop the price of what that cost for people on the Big Island, as well as provide a good service for those dogs that are coming in. WOODWARD: Thank you, Mr. Maeda. Any questions? Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: Aloha. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. I just had one question. What’s the fruit and vegetables, what is that for? MAEDA: Well, I work part time right now out of my house. And I’m starting a farm and I’m going to do some different farming projects; and in the future I was looking at farming certain berries and fruits, and packaging and selling those things. WOODWARD: Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: I have a couple of questions. So you’re on catchment? MAEDA: Yes, I am. BOWMAN: And you will have enough water to shoot all the kennels and things? MAEDA: Yes, I will. BOWMAN: Okay. And you know it’s a five-year special permit? I’m just a little concerned with the certified kitchen, on the cost of it. You know, are you willing to put that investment in, in a five-year special permit, I guess? MAEDA: I didn’t realize actually that it was only a five, I was only going to be able to get a five-year special permit, I didn’t know that. HAYASHI: Mr. Chair? EXHIBIT A 4 WOODWARD: It evidently will be renewable. There’s generally a renewal clause. HAYASHI: There’s no clause for a five-year limitation. BOWMAN: Okay, there’s no clause? HAYASHI: Yes. BOWMAN: So what does that mean? Maybe you could clarify. YUEN: Well, this would be essentially a permanent special permit. And let me explain the difference in our viewpoint on this application versus the one that we just had and some of the other ones. The businesses that we’ve been looking at that we have on five-year special permits are typically businesses that you would find located in a Light Industrial area, like a contractor’s baseyard. You wouldn’t find it located on somebody’s agricultural lot. So these are the types of businesses. It’s just as an overall philosophy it should be in an industrial zoned area or, you know, in areas developed for that kind of purpose. We also get special permits that are on a very small scale, like this one or basically agriculturally related. And in this case the dog kennel type of business is agriculturally related. It’s not exactly animal husbandry, you know, because of the way that things are defined in the Code. It’s, if he were keeping chickens, or raising cattle, or the like, it would be simply permitted as an agricultural use. But it is a type of business that you might find located out in a kind of a country area. And so although it does go the special permit route we aren’t looking at, oh, this should be temporary and it should be moved some day to some place else. BOWMAN: Thank you. WOODWARD: Thank you, Director Yuen. Any other questions? BOWMAN: I just have one more. So, and thank you for that clarification. I guess I was thinking on a different wave length. Do you know many, are there a lot of boarding kennels in this area? I’m just curious. MAEDA: I know of three boarding kennels. One in Hamakua, one in Orchidland and one in Mt. View. BOWMAN: And the quarantine is still on Oahu? Pardon my ignorance. MAEDA: There’s a quarantine kennel on Oahu, and then there’s one here in Puna. Just the cost of quarantining a dog here on the Big Island is almost double as if you were to quarantine it on Oahu. So you can quarantine it here, it’s just the cost is a lot more. EXHIBIT A 5 BOWMAN: Okay. Do you have a lot of pigs there? MAEDA: There are a lot of pigs in the area, yes, but not on our property cause we do have dogs. BOWMAN: Okay, so they don’t like bark a lot at night when the pigs are out? MAEDA: No, our, well, there are dogs barking all over the neighborhood, you know, in the area. But as far as, I think the sound from the boarding kennel will be minimized because the dogs will be in during the night and we are using solid doors on all the, exterior doors and cinder block walls. So I don’t think they will hear or see anything from the outside, and I think generally they’ll be pretty quiet at night. BOWMAN: Thank you. I was just curious cause my dogs are always going after pigs. Thank you. WOODWARD: Any other questions? HOUSEL: I had one more question. WOODWARD: Commissioner Housel. HOUSEL: Yes, thank you. On the drawings that you submitted I see a kitchen, I’ll point to it, but there’s a note under here the kitchen is not proposed at this time. But you are proposing the kitchen then? MAEDA: Well, the boarding kennel would be the first thing that I would like to build. And the other things are proposed future buildings, but it pretty much depends on financial, you know, our financial means and if we’re able to do it or not. But it’s proposed in the future. I’m hoping to do it within the time limit of the, cause I know I do have five years to act upon the special permit. HOUSEL: Okay. Now the kitchen, the proposed, is shown in the main kennel building. MAEDA: No, it’s not. HOUSEL: Is that not right? MAEDA: No, it’s a separate -. HOUSEL: Okay. Where would the kitchen be? MAEDA: It’s right near the kennel. The kitchen and the office are planned to be a separate building approximately, maybe like 50 feet from where the kennel itself is. EXHIBIT A 6 In the kennel building I was planning to have a prep area with a bathroom, but not a kitchen in there. It’s just more for prep. HOUSEL: Okay. So if you do the kitchen will you then apply again to get the permit for that or is it -? MAEDA: Well, I’m applying for the kitchen right now but I wasn’t going to build it immediately because financially we wouldn’t be able to do that. But I believe I do have five years to act upon the special use permit so I can build it within the five-year period that the special use permit is for. That’s my understanding. HOUSEL: Okay. My concern is where the kitchen would be located with regards to the kennel. MAEDA: Yeah, it’s in a separate building approximately, I’d say like 50 feet from where the kennel building would be. HOUSEL: Okay, okay. Thank you. BOWMAN: I just have one more question. WOODWARD: Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: You talked about a prep area in the kennel, that’s a prep area for the dogs, right? Not for the vegetables? MAEDA: For the dogs, to feed them and water them and so on. BOWMAN: Okay. So all your vegetable things would be in your certified kitchen? MAEDA: Yes. BOWMAN: And, just curious, so you need, like you don’t need a certified kitchen to like sell vegetables, like -? MAEDA: You actually do if you package and process them, and wash them and clean them. You do need a certified kitchen to do that. BOWMAN: Thank you for enlightening me on that. WOODWARD: All right. We have two -. Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, sir. MAEDA: Good morning. EXHIBIT A 7 IWASHITA: In our papers we have a letter from Steven Scott; and I guess the main thing he was expressing his concern about was the shooting range. You just have a place where you can practice shooting? MAEDA: Yes, that’s correct. IWASHITA: So, I guess, he says at the end that he’s satisfied that you are going to do something about moving it or something like that. But explain, I don’t, what is the -? MAEDA: I have. IWASHITA: This is for your own personal use? MAEDA: Yes, correct. I built a small shooting range on my property. It has a back stop and it’s approved to shoot, you can shoot firearms on agricultural property. And what I was telling Mr. Scott was that that is a hobby, just for fun; and this is a livelihood. And, therefore, once I have my dog kennel, while I have dogs there, I’m not going to be able to do that any longer because personally I wouldn’t want to have my dogs kenneled at somewhere where there is someone shooting a gun all the time right next to them. So I am not going to be using my range in the same way, and I’m not going to be using it once I have my kennel. And I did mention to Mr. Scott that if, one of the ideas was to move the range to the very back of the property which I can still do although it’s not developed. So I would have to invest money to develop that and do that. But that’s not what I’m proposing right now to do. And, actually, like I said, it is a hobby and the kennel would take precedent over that; and I explained that to Mr. Scott. IWASHITA: And so my understanding is that because, well, once you set up the kennel it wouldn’t be good business for you to continue to use your, to shoot on your property? MAEDA: That’s correct. IWASHITA: Okay. The concern about, and I’ve gone through all the letters you’ve submitted from various people in the community that support you and, you know, that’s great. What about the other two people -? Well, have you attempted to work out with the rest of the other neighbors, other than Mr. Scott, the other concerns expressed when this first came up? MAEDA: No, I did not. Well, I spoke with Ms. Rapozo who also submitted a letter. IWASHITA: Right I saw that one. But she didn’t actually own property close enough for you to give her notice, right? She had just expressed some concerns and she’s EXHIBIT A 8 satisfied. When you say, I guess there seems to be a little conflict in terms of what you testified to about limiting people coming to the kennel to two customers a day -. MAEDA: That’s what I – I didn’t think there would be more people than that. I don’t know, I don’t know yet because I’m not running the business. So I just thought -. IWASHITA: Okay. But that’s what’s your best estimate. And then your testimony about having the quarantine kennel and then a lot, you know, and encouraging, part of it is to encourage the owners being able to have a good amount of contact with their dog during the 120-day period. So those two things seems to me in conflict in terms of, you know, allowing those five owners to come as much as possible and then try to limit it to two a day. MAEDA: Yeah, well, I don’t know if I would have five dogs in the quarantine kennel at one time; and I know that most people who, well for myself, when I had a dog here in quarantine at the kennel here on the Big Island because I worked I was only able to go maybe once or twice a week, or three times a week. And what I was actually thinking in regards to the quarantine was being able to myself provide more stimulation and interaction and training with the puppies, because I saw that as something that was lacking in the quarantine facilities that I had seen. So that was my, in regards to the quarantine part and the people coming. I don’t expect, although maybe some people may be interested in coming every day, I don’t expect that people would be able to come every day to visit their dogs in the quarantine kennel. But I did want to provide more stimulation and interaction than just the regular quarantine. IWASHITA: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. WOODWARD: Commissioner Bowman, we do have two people signed up to testify but -. BOWMAN: Okay, just real quick. I did read through the letters. And what kind of impressed me, or however you say this, is that the clientele that you’re bringing in versus the clientele, I guess, the one that had his house burned or their house burned, that the kind of clientele that’s coming through are those who care about their animals and are probably, you know, working people, etc. So I think that’s a good point. And you might probably have more than two people a day, especially in the summertime or vacation time. MAEDA: Yeah, there may be days, but then there may be also days that no one would come. BOWMAN: Okay, thank you. WOODWARD: Anything else before we, Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: I’d just like to make a motion. EXHIBIT A 9 WOODWARD: We have two public testifiers. ALAMEDA: That’s right. Sorry. WOODWARD: If that’s all for Mr. Maeda, you can be seated, sir. Thank you very much. And we’ll call up Diana Makepa and Leigh Critchlow. MAKEPA: Good morning again. WOODWARD: Good morning again. MAKEPA: My second visit here. I hope you all have the presentation -. NOMURA: Microphone, please. MAKEPA: Oh. WOODWARD: And you are -? MAKEPA: I hope you all have the presentation I presented to you at the last time with the signatures -. WOODWARD: Excuse me, excuse me. MAKEPA: Oh, sorry. WOODWARD: You’re Leigh Critchlow? MAKEPA: No, I’m Diana Makepa. WOODWARD: You’re Diana Makepa. Okay, you’re Leigh Critchlow? CRITCHLOW: I’m Leigh Critchlow. WOODWARD: Okay. CRITCHLOW: Do I come up the same time? WOODWARD: Yeah, come on up and have a seat. MAKEPA: My name is Diana Makepa. WOODWARD: Wait, wait, wait. One step at a time. Let me swear you in. If you’ll raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth today before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? EXHIBIT A 10 MAKEPA: I absolutely do. CRITCHLOW: Yes. WOODWARD: Okay, and then before you begin our testimony if you’ll give your name and address for the record, please. MAKEPA: My name is Diana Makepa. My box number is PO Box 1067, Mt. View 96771. So I want to say I came to this island in 1969. I’m not a newcomer here to complain. There are a lot of things that were said this morning that have made me shaking. I’m just shaking. I’m here to fight for the quality of my future. I have a lifetime lease on 12 acres that is upwind from Mr. Maeda. His gun range is directly in front of my living room. I noticed that recently he might have toned it down a bit but when he shoots you cannot do anything. So I’m glad to hear that he might not be doing that. The dog kennel as it is placed now is practically in my front room. So smell and dog barking is going to affect me. I’m almost 70 years old. I work very hard every day on my farm. I’m telling you the only thing I hear all day long are birds. I don’t hear dogs barking except yesterday. I took note to sit quietly for about an hour to see what I could hear in the neighborhood, and I can hear Mr. Maeda’s dog barking. I don’t know how many dogs he has, one or two now, but I can hear the dogs barking. A certified kitchen can be run 24/7, I’ve called and asked. You can rent it to other people and you can pretty much cook and do what you want once you get the permit. I feel that the future expansion is rather ambiguous and leaves me wondering what is going to be expanded. I would also like to point out that the presentation that we presented you with has 11 signatures from everyone in the neighborhood who said, no, they don’t want this. There were only three people not contacted in the neighborhood. One is a renter, one doesn’t want anything to do with anyone in the neighborhood and the other is Mr. Williams who is Mr. Maeda’s good friend. I have nothing against dogs but a kennel with 27 dogs barking in front of my living room is going to affect my life. Dog cookies being cooked whenever they want to and the smell drifting up to my house is going to affect the quality of my life. This whole thing borders on the Olaa Forest Reserve. There are only 14 homes up there but we all hear the shooting. Everyone all the way down to the very last person on the road hears the shooting, so sound carries dramatically. I haven’t been invited back to see what he has planned. I haven’t had anyone discuss anything about what he has planned. And I’d like to point out that Mr. Histo who will be the most affected is not even here. I don’t know if you have a letter from him but he’s the lot immediately above Mr. Maeda, and he’s in jail. His wife is in a care home. She has had four strokes. They love dogs but I don’t know if they’re going to want 27 possible dogs barking in their face. What about the property value should one of us chose to sell? We all bought and live in that neighborhood because it’s remote, it’s solitude and it’s quiet. We are not Hawaiian Acres, we are not Fern Acres. We are a very unique little neighborhood with only 14 EXHIBIT A 11 homes and one single lane road coming in and going out. And, yes, we do have a lot of pigs. And what’s going to happen is when 27 possible dogs are barking every dog in the neighborhood is doing to bark. He may want to put his dogs inside at night but the smell of strange dogs in the neighborhood will carry and you will have the entire neighborhood barking. I have nothing against Mr. Maeda and nothing against dogs. I have dogs myself. But I don’t believe that this area is the proper place for a commercial business of any kind. This is a unique and remote little tiny peace of heaven. And to have a commercial business put in the middle of this just doesn’t make sense to me. I thank you very much. I am emotional. This is the future of the quality of my life; and I expect to live another 25 or 30 years, God willing. But right now I don’t see the worth of putting a commercial business in this unique little peace of heaven. Thank you very much. WOODWARD: Thank you. Any questions for Ms. Makepa? Seeing none, we’ll -. YUEN: I have one. WOODWARD: Oh, okay. Director Yuen. YUEN: Yes. Have you seen, he submitted a site plan of where -. MAKEPA: I’ve seen the site plan; and according to the site plan my house is like right here from the kitchen and the kennels. Although Mr. Histo’s lot is between us, like I said the gun range is invasive. So I’m foreseeing that possibly 27 dogs is also going to create a lot of noise. YUEN: I’m just trying to understand your location. Okay -. MAKEPA: Mr. Maeda, Mr. Histo, myself. YUEN: And then Ihope Road? MAKEPA: Then Ihope Road. YUEN: All right, okay. So he has a site plan where his kennel is about, you said the kennel was right outside your window? MAKEPA: No. But my house is here. His run range is here. His kennel is here. So it’s all going to come this way. The gun range now is impossible. For an hour and a half to two hours on a quiet Sunday afternoon you can’t read, take a nap, take a tv, do anything but listen to gunfire.So my feeling is all of that noise is going to come right at this way. I was raised as a young child on a dog kennel. My grandparents raised great danes. They have four to six kennels, it’s never quiet. There are always flies. What are you going to do with the poop? What are you going to do with any accidents of any dogs getting out? What’s going to happen? We don’t know. But nobody wants it. EXHIBIT A 12 WOODWARD: All right, thank you very much. Any other questions? Okay, Ms. Critchlow, if you’ll give us your name and address, and then you may give us your testimony. CRITCHLOW: Is this about right? WOODWARD: A little closer, a little louder maybe CRITCHLOW: A little closer, a little louder, okay. My name is Leigh Critchlow and my address is PO Box 524, Volcano, Hawaii 96785. And we’re talking about the same property here because I bought it in the mid-eighties and she has a life-time lease, she has a home on it. I have an agricultural shed and I spend as much time as I can there because I love the rural life and I love animals and I can’t have all that on a house lot in Volcano. So it has been a gradual thing.And when I bought it in the mid-eighties and, of course I didn’t just buy it. I mean I paid for it for a long time and I worked very hard to pay for it. It’s a 12-acre farm lot. It’s about 700 feet from the Maeda’s property with Jaime Histo’s 12-acre parcel in between. It’s divided up, a 50-acre parcel. And there’s 12 acres at the top and that is my parcel; then there’s the 12 acres below it and they’re pretty much square, 12 acres below it and that’s Jaime Histo’s, Jaime and Darlene Histo’s, and then below it, and Jaime’s is a flag lot; and Stewart’s and Dana’s is a 24-acre flag lot with the flag bringing the road down to their 24 acres. And it does seem that all of their stuff is concentrated at the very top of that 24 acres. And as has been mentioned in the written and oral presentations last time and this time Ihope is a single lane road. It is a County road and it is paved, but there are many places where there’s really no place to pull off. I just question the siting of this in this quiet agricultural area. It’s like it’s almost as far back in the midst of this agricultural area as you could put something that perhaps belongs in like the Shipman Industrial area or something. I love dogs, I love people. I’m sure the Maedas are really, really nice people; and I believe that people ought to be able to do with their property what they want to do with their property within the law and within reason. It’s just that the magnitude of this operation as initially proposed and then what the future might bring, it just doesn’t quite seem to mesh with what the area historically has been designated for. And it’s my understanding that once you have a certified kitchen, and as is common practice in many places here including the O’Keefe’s Bakery before they closed, they would, if you have a certified kitchen or certified bakery you can rent the facilities to people by the hour by the half day. And it’s a common practice for a lot of the home businesses to use a certified kitchen somewhere else because they don’t have a certified kitchen and then they sell their stuff at various outlets. And I just, I really worry about what that could lead to. It would sound terrific if that’s all it was; but I just turned 59 and, boy, I know just judging, things change, they really do, things that are totally out of our control. And who knows if this property were sold to someone else what they would use the commercial EXHIBIT A 13 kitchen for. It just seems a little bit overpowering the way it’s proposed right now. So that would be my comment. Thank you. WOODWARD: Thank you. Any questions? All right, thank you very much. You may be seated. Mr. Maeda, did you have anything you wanted to say in response? MAEDA: I have no comment. WOODWARD: Okay, thank you very much. OGATA: I have a question for him though. WOODWARD: You’ve already been sworn in so you’re good to go. OGATA: The certified kitchen that you’re proposing, is that a full-blown commercial kitchen or is it a certified prep kitchen? I’m not sure what -. MAEDA: Well, I haven’t researched it totally yet or did any designing of it. I know that with the Department of Health there are different standards; and my intention is to use it for processing of our fruits and vegetables and baking dog treats. So that’s the intended use. I don’t intend any other use, but I haven’t designed it or given that any consideration. WOODWARD: Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t have a question for the applicant. I have a question for the Director. I’m just curious. What part, if you look at the whole application what part of the application warrants a special permit? Like if you look at the shooting range that doesn’t warrant a special permit, Ag land. If you look at raising dogs, that doesn’t warrant a special permit. And I don’t know if there’s a limit on how much dogs people can raise on their property, maybe that warrants a special permit. At what part of this application warrants a special permit? YUEN: The commercial boarding kennel aspect where people are bringing dogs in to be boarded. The certified kitchen would not need a special permit as long as he’s processing his own fruits and vegetables.That’s Ag processing at that point. So, for example, if he grows pineapples and he makes pineapple jam, he needs a certified kitchen to make the jam; but that’s processing of an agricultural product. So those are the aspects that do and don’t need a special permit. ALAMEDA: Okay, so just to clarify, so the commercial part of the boarding dogs, cause neighbors, you know, I’ve watchdogs. Did I board them? I don’t think so. So it’s the commercial aspect of the boarding and then the certified kitchen, yeah, those are the two primary reasons that warrant the special permit? EXHIBIT A 14 YUEN: Right. And if he were limiting the certified kitchen to processing of his own agricultural produce he would not need a special permit. You know the application came in with this cooking of the dog treats aspect, so that’s part of why it’s in there. And the point raised by the neighbors of the potential renting of the certified kitchen I think is a legitimate one, and we could deal with that. It could be dealt with either by a condition that it be limited to the owner of the premises, the operation be limited to the owner of the premises, in which case he could bring in other, you know, he could operate a bakery with a certified kitchen, that would allow that. Or if it were taken out completely, as I said, he could still process his own agricultural products and have a certified kitchen to do that without getting a special permit. He would still need the Department of Health permit but we wouldn’t require a special permit to do that. ALAMEDA: Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. WOODWARD: Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: What if he grew, like there are a lot of vegetarian dog things? I do, I have a friend that has a bakery on Oahu and a lot of it is made out of sweet potato. So if he, I’m just asking, if he grew the sweet potatoes and things there or grew the chickens to make chicken dog food, chicken dog food, yeah, something like that, or grew a cow and made, is this, I’m getting carried away, is that allowed cause he’s doing his agricultural products? YUEN: Yeah. The growing and processing of agricultural products is a permitted use on your own site. So if he, and there are certain things that you need a commercial kitchen -- We always say certified kitchen, the Department of Health says commercial kitchen -- certain things you need a commercial kitchen to do and that’s their kuleana. But as far as the, you know, the Planning Department is concerned, you can raise chickens, you can feed the chickens to the dogs. If he cooks them in something that needs a commercial kitchen he may need a Department of Health license. But he wouldn’t need anything further from us besides, you know, this special permit to have the dog kennels. What he feeds the dogs, if he grows it there that’s fine, that would simply be a permitted use anyway. BOWMAN: But he could sell those products because he grew them? YUEN: Yeah. BOWMAN: Okay. YUEN: Again, you know, and leave the dogs aside -. If he, to get back to the pineapple example, if he grew pineapples and he wanted to can them on his own site and he needed a commercial certified kitchen to do that he would still need the Department of Health permit but he wouldn’t need a Planning Department permit. That’s Ag processing. EXHIBIT A 15 BOWMAN: So we could conceivably take that out of the application because it would be approved cause it’s on Ag land? YUEN: If he is processing his own products he does not need a special permit to have a certified kitchen. When we’ve had special permits for certified kitchens it’s for people who actually are doing, they’re taking in products that may be on island or off island and they’re doing the cooking. WOODWARD: All righty then. IWASHITA: Mr. Chair? WOODWARD: Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess this is maybe directed primarily at staff and then maybe to the applicant. Mr. Maeda spoke of various kennels that already exists. And given the testimony in opposition I guess what I would like know is whether there are properly zoned lands in East Hawaii that a kennel could be built on. Because what we’re looking at is creating this commercial activity out in this Ag area, very remote Ag area; and if, in fact, there is land available and properly zoned where the applicant could lease and/or buy and build a kennel without coming here for this special permit then that’s something I want to know. WOODWARD: If I might address that, Commissioner Iwashita, and I just spoke with our legal counsel Mr. Torigoe, dog kennels are a permitted use on Ag land. The reason that this one is different is he’s going to make a buck. It’s a commercial kennel; and that’s the only difference. If he was going to put 27 of his own dogs in there he would have no problem. IWASHITA: I would like to know if there are lands available and properly zoned where he could build a kennel and rent it out commercially without having to go, you know, where it’s allowed and all he has to do is get a building permit. YUEN: Let me just, I don’t want to do this just on the fly. I think it’s a permitted use in a Heavy Industrial or a Light Industrial zone, but let me check the Zoning Code. ALAMEDA: Mr. Chair? WOODWARD: Yes, Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: You know, just to, I’m okay with the answer being yes, you know, and still be ready to move on. Like Commissioner Iwashita was asking if there’s land available for such an enterprise, let’s just assume there is land, plenty, then I’m ready to move on. EXHIBIT A 16 WOODWARD: Would you like to make a motion? YUEN: I’ll answer the question. I’ll answer the question. IWASHITA: Thank you. WOODWARD: Okay. YUEN: It’s an outright permitted use in a General Industrial zone. It’s permitted with some conditions in a Limited Industrial zone. Examples, there are General Industrial zoned lands. Examples would be Shipman Business Park, Shipman Business Park is the closest location. I believe there are a few, they just recently opened up an increment. There are a few lots in the Shipman Business Park, so that’s the answer to that question. WOODWARD: All right. Let’s see, Shelly Ogata you never speak much so go. OGATA: Well, I’m ready to make a motion. So is there anybody else that -? IWASHITA: Can I? I have a question for the Department. Given the fact that, well, I guess, you know, the special permits in these areas that we do, a lot of them are B&Bs. They are the main kind of use that I see that we’ve allowed. And, you know, for those I don’t really have a problem in terms of the proposed use because we have a shortage of vacation rentals on this island. So, you know, people want to do that, it’s fine. When we’re talking about other types of uses though, again, I go back to the process and where Planning Commission is part of the overall planning proper controlled planning process we have in this County. So in addressing this particular application was the issue of whether or not this use could be done in Shipman Park, for example, addressed? Because I guess in reviewing it I didn’t really see that, you know, that availability of properly zoned land was addressed as an issue and whether or not, what the Department’s position is on that. YUEN: Well, as I tried to explain a little bit earlier, we did look at this as a use that’s very close to permitted uses in the agricultural district, and not something that should be shunted into an industrial area. It’s really a matter of judgment for the Commission as to whether the potential impacts to the neighbors are too great to allow this business to go forward as requested. In our view given its similarity to a range of things that you can do as a matter of right in an agricultural area, we felt comfortable with recommending approval of the special permit. We would like to mention that we would like to add a specific condition that the kennels be located as shown on the site plan to take away the possibility that they would be moved up closer to the property boundaries. MAEDA: Could I just make one comment? WOODWARD: Yes, sir. EXHIBIT A 17 MAEDA: Approximately a year ago when I started the process and I went to the Planning Office I had told them I wanted to do a commercial kennel, and at the time they told me that it was a permitted use on agricultural land. Several months later I went back and I asked about the certified kitchen; and in talking with them some more I was informed that both the boarding kennel and the certified kitchen would require a special use permit. But there was a little bit of, it seemed like the County was in transition between not looking at it as a special use permit issue prior to a year ago when I went in as to now. So the other boarding kennels that are already established in East Hawaii are all located on agricultural lands within Light Residential/Agricultural areas where there are houses and other things. So this is not a first; and I don’t know of any kennel except for veterinary clinics that are located just solely in Industrial areas. So I just wanted to make that comment. WOODWARD: Thank you, sir. We have a very full agenda so if you have pertinent statements or questions please make them. BOWMAN: Just real quick because I think the noise problem -. But isn’t there a noise law that if the dogs bark for more than 20 minutes you can be fined or you can call the police? There’s a law like that, right? So, I mean, if there’s a problem then there’s a legal recourse, I believe. YUEN: There is. How effective it is and how strongly it’s enforced is another question I have to admit. But there is a noise ordinance. BOWMAN: Okay, thank you. WOODWARD: My understanding is it’s generally enforced by the officers of the Humane Society. Okay. HOUSEL: Mr. Chair, I had one question for our Director. WOODWARD: Yes, sir, Commissioner Housel. HOUSEL: In your comments in the recommendation, Mr. Director, you said as a condition of approval the applicant will be required to provide landscaping to mitigate any potential adverse noise or visual impacts to the surrounding areas. Is that specified? Is that a condition of this permit? YUEN: I’m not familiar with the specifics enough. Maija can handle, answer that, I think. COTTLE: Yes, it is. It is a condition of the permit. HOUSEL: That is a condition? COTTLE: Yes. EXHIBIT A 18 HOUSEL: Okay. WOODWARD: All righty then. Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: I move that we approve Special Permit Application SPP 08-000056 -. DOMINGO: Second. OGATA: Oh, I’m sorry, with the Planning Director’s revisions about the site plan, unless it’s already in there. COTTLE: It’s not, no. OGATA: Okay. COTTLE: And did you also want to add a condition that the use of the certified kitchen shall be limited to the owner of the property? That was another suggested condition. OGATA: Yes, I guess so. HAYASHI: I think if you limit the use of the certified kitchen to those products produced on the property then you don’t need a special permit. However, if you were to make some vegetable mixtures and he gets cabbages from farmers in Volcano, then he would need to get a special permit. So I think it’s, he’s asking that he be allowed to do that and establish his certified kitchen in that manner. OGATA: Okay, forget that revision. WOODWARD: Okay. Commissioner Domingo, you second it? DOMINGO: I second the motion. WOODWARD: Any discussion? Commissioner Iwashita. IWASHITA: I guess I got confused by that certified kitchen discussion. It was my understanding from the testimony of Mr. Maeda that he only intends to use the kitchen to process what he intends to grow at some future date; and if that’s the case we don’t even need a special permit. That’s my understanding. Is that incorrect? MAEDA: Well, if it’s before the Commission at this time I would like it to be considered because like the Planning Department said that if I use products from other places then I would need that and I don’t want to say at this time that I’m not going to do that; and if it’s before the Commission I would like it to be considered. EXHIBIT A 19 WOODWARD: Thank you. Any other discussion or questions? IWASHITA: So my understanding then there is going to be a limitation for the commercial kitchen to be used only by the applicant? WOODWARD: That was not the motion. No, it’s, no that was not the motion. Commissioner Ogata withdrew that provision. IWASHITA: All right. Well, I think that it ought to be because of the, you know, the representation is he’s going to use it only for his purposes, I guess, and so that the applicant would seem agreeable to such a condition. ALAMEDA: Mr. Chair? IWASHITA: Yes, Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: If Commissioner Iwashita could make a friendly amendment and we see if there’s a second, if there’s no second then it dies, I guess. You could make a friendly then. DOMINGO: Yeah. That’s the best way to handle it. ALAMEDA: Would you like to make a friendly amendment or what are you asking Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: If it’s friendly they can just do it. I don’t have to make a motion. DOMINGO: No, no, there’s got to be a motion. WOODWARD: We’re all friend here. Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: I think the question really is what are your long-term intentions? Because we have approved commercial kitchens in areas like in Paauilo where, you know, other people brought their produce and they served it there. So I think you need to be straight up on what you want to do so we have an understanding. MAEDA: I don’t want to rent it out to anyone. I want to use it for myself, but I do want to be able to get other products and process in whatever I’m going to produce on my property; and, therefore, I would like the certified kitchen. I have no problem with an amendment saying that we’re the only people that are going to use it because that’s what I want to use it for. BOWMAN: Thank you. WOODWARD: Would that be acceptable to you, Commissioner Iwashita? EXHIBIT A 20 IWASHITA: It’s her motion, not mine. WOODWARD: But I’m asking you whether that would allay your concerns. IWASHITA: Oh, he said what I said so -. WOODWARD: Okay. IWASHITA: But it’s Commissioner Ogata’s motion. WOODWARD: All right. Do you want to leave the motion as it stands or would you like to modify it to say that it will need a certified kitchen but it will only be used by Mr. Maeda, which would allow him to bring other products but he would have to be in charge of the process? OGATA: I’m fine with my motion. But if somebody wants to propose an amendment, that’s fine. WOODWARD: Okay. Well, no, it’s your motion. So we’ve had a motion and a second. We have any discussion? BOWMAN: I would like to propose an amendment that we say that it will only be operated by Mr. Maeda, the applicant. WOODWARD: Okay, do we have a second to the amendment? IWASHITA: Second. WOODWARD: Okay, any discussion on the amendment? DOMINGO: Mr. Chairman? WOODWARD: Yes, sir. DOMINGO: I have something to say. I speak against the amendment. I know given the choice to Mr. Maeda with regards to actually having his go through and just put aside this amendment he would rather have it that way. But I’m looking at a perspective, perhaps a long-term perspective, and the use of that agricultural land. It gives him a flexibility for the use of that land. It gives him an opportunity to add to his sources, of his income source, which he may need because it’s everything in agriculture and it’s unpredictable. And so it gives him that flexibility to decide what he can do in the future, you know. And then for that reason I speak against the motion and for not putting any restrictions to it. EXHIBIT A 21 WOODWARD: Okay. I would really like to get this moving, but if you do have something that you really have to say -. Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope this is helpful. I understand Commissioner Domingo’s concerns and my suggestion is that the motion does not -. You know, limiting the use of the kitchen to the owner or the applicant in no way impairs any of the concerns raised by Commissioner Domingo. The special permit will allow the use for Mr. Maeda’s wife, any future owner. It’s an entitlement that will run with the land and any owner will be able to process food in this kitchen. It’s just they won’t be allowed to have others come in from outside the property and, you know, they won’t be able to rent it out; and that’s the only effect of the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. WOODWARD: All right, thank you. Anybody else before we take the vote? BOWMAN: I just want to make sure that all the Commissioners understand that and that maybe we’ll asked Mr. Maeda if that amendment appeals to him because it does not restrict you or your family or a future owner from using the kitchen. It’s just what my amendment said, is that it will be the applicant that will be cooking, that they’re not going to rent it out, again increasing traffic and out. ALAMEDA: Mr. Chair? WOODWARD: Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just for the process, so we could vote on this amendment and if it doesn’t get five votes we can make a new motion, correct? WOODWARD: Well, if the amendment fails then we vote on the original motion, that’s my understanding. ALAMEDA: Okay, then we can proceed. WOODWARD: Any other comments? All right, Maija. COTTLE: So we’re voting on Commissioner Bowman’s amendments, correct? WOODWARD: Correct. COTTLE: Okay. Commissioner Bowman? BOWMAN: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Yes. EXHIBIT A 22 COTTLE: Commissioner Alameda? ALAMEDA: No. COTTLE: Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO: No. COTTLE: Commissioner Housel? HOUSEL: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: No. COTTLE: And Chair Woodward? WOODWARD: No. COTTLE: Okay, that is four-three against the motion. All right, so the motion does not carry, or the amendment does not carry. Now we will vote on the original motion. BOWMAN: Excuse me, do we have any discussion before that? WOODWARD: If you would like go right ahead. BOWMAN: I would just maybe like to understand the rationale behind not limiting it to the applicant, if anyone could enlighten me. WOODWARD: Commissioner Domingo, enlighten her. DOMINGO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I voted against the amendment because, you know, if you think in today’s economy and with as many people having as hard a time as they’re having with regards to make ends meet. And the concept of a certified kitchen is not new, it has been in practice and we all know about it, and how much benefit it has brought to people in the community. You know, I know of a lady once who had the idea of producing acheutte (phonetic) oil for cooking purposes. But to do that from her home was impossible because of the amount of investment she would have had to put into the home. So what she did was she traveled all the way to Paauilo on a certain day, a certain time, and did what she wanted to do. I go to the supermarkets today, especially Taniguchi, I see her product on the shelves. Now, you know, if this concept works in Hamakua or other parts of the island and if this individual, the applicant is desiring to do this for himself and for the community, you know, I say let’s not restrict EXHIBIT A 23 his use of the property. And, you know, I think that, in part, that’s what we’re here for and that’s what we’re considering, you know, to enhance the economic probability of people making a living for themselves. And that’s why I voted against the motion. WOODWARD: Director Yuen. YUEN: Mr. Chair, it’s not my practice to argue things, and I try to say what I say and then let the Commission go ahead. But I have to be concerned a bit about the last vote and what I-. I’m a little concerned about the, what is being presented. Because when you look at a special permit you have an application and the applicant basically presents a picture of what they’re going to do and what they want to do. And we analyze it on that basis We did not analyze this special permit on the basis of they might want a full-blown commercial kitchen, that people in the community could come and rent on a periodic basis, or that they might have large loads of agricultural supplies coming in and with no limitation to the scale of what’s presented. Now that might be a fine thing; but if they want to do that, they should apply for it so that we can really look at it in such terms. So there should be some limitation to any special permit to basically what’s being presented by the applicant. ALAMEDA: Mr. Chair? WOODWARD: Commissioner Alameda. ALAMEDA: Thank you. And, you know, along the lines of what the Director is suggesting, I mean, that’s how I’m thinking. I see this as almost two applications. You know, one is like for the commercial kennel and I don’t have a problem with that. And the other one is for the certified kitchen, and based on the applicant’s presentation, you know, I don’t have a problem with that either. And, you know, restricting the use to only owner I think is restrictive. If we’re to only look at that commercial kitchen, like we did in the past in the braddah pops or whatever kind of applications that came before us, I mean, I don’t think we restricted it to only one person. So, you know, and the applicant agreed to the restriction but that’s cause we Commissioners and, you know, we don’t have the robes but we do present with certain power. So, I mean, but, you know, we’re just trying to be less restrictive. I mean, that’s why I voted against the motion. WOODWARD: Commissioner Bowman. BOWMAN: I just have a question. Are there many, and I’m not familiar with this area, but are there other commercial kitchens? I know of Paauilo and I know some churches have commercial kitchens. So are there any commercial kitchens say within 20 miles of this? COTTLE: I don’t know. BOWMAN: You don’t know? EXHIBIT A 24 COTTLE: No. BOWMAN: Okay, my concern, again, would be the traffic, it’s a gravel road, it is fairly remote; and I think if the applicant brings in produce it limits it to him. It’s not to say that he can’t hire people to help him, right? It’s the applicant’s kitchen. And this is where it’s a fine line, but we don’t know if there are other commercial kitchens. You know to me this is two really separate applications. Because if he’s going to bring in people and produce to create jellies or whatever you’re going to do in that kitchen, then why can’t it just be limited to the applicant? WOODWARD: All right. Anybody else? Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like nothing more than to do everything this body can to promote economic development on this island, but within the process of this particular application. What Mr. Maeda is asking for is the right for him to use a commercial kitchen to process his own products. So by putting that specifically in the application we’re giving him everything he wants, everything he wants. What’s being suggested is we ought to give him more because we have these other concerns; and that is what’s problematic. WOODWARD: All right, thank you. BOWMAN: May I clarify something -? WOODWARD: Sure. BOWMAN: That I believe Mr. Maeda said it’s not just the things grown on his land but if there’s other produce that he could help manufacture in his kitchen, neighbor’s, kind of like again the Paauilo, the vanilla farm. And I believe in his statement that’s what he said, he’d like to bring in outside -. He wouldn’t have to have our okay if he just did his produce. But what I heard him say is that he’d like to bring, he doesn’t want to limit it to just his farm. So, again, if that is his intention and we give him that leeway to operate it, bringing in vegetables or cows or whatever from other people, then that was agreeable by the applicant. Maybe I’m wrong. WOODWARD: All right. Well, I think this horse is dead. And I think we ought to take a vote. So, anybody else have any other comments? Last chance. Okay, Maija. COTTLE: Can I clarify one other condition? WOODWARD: Certainly. COTTLE: The Director had suggested a condition stating that the kennels shall be located approximately as shown on the site plan, and I don’t know that he mentioned this but I have a note here that he also wanted to say “and shall be built with EXHIBIT A 25 solid doors and cinder block walls as stated in the application.” So is that okay with Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: Yes. WOODWARD: All right. BOWMAN: Would you read that, what are we voting on, her original? WOODWARD: Yes. BOWMAN: Which doesn’t limit the kitchen to the applicant? COTTLE: That’s correct. BOWMAN: Anybody could do it? COTTLE: That’s correct. BOWMAN: Okay, thank you. COTTLE: Okay. Commissioner Ogata? OGATA: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Domingo? DOMINGO: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Alameda? ALAMEDA: Yes. COTTLE: Commissioner Bowman? BOWMAN: No. COTTLE: Commissioner Housel? HOUSEL: Yes. COTTLE: Commissioner Iwashita? IWASHITA: No. COTTLE: Chair Woodward? EXHIBIT A 26 WOODWARD: Aye. COTTLE: Okay, the motion passes, five-two. WOODWARD: All right, you will be notified in writing. And your application has been approved. MAEDA: Thank you very much. The discussion ended at 11:08 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, East Hawaii Secretary EXHIBIT A 27