HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-09-30 TPARKERSCH
PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
SEPTEMBER 30, 2005
PARKER SCHOOL BOARD OF
A regularly advertised hearing on the application
DIRECTORS (USE 05-001)
was called to order at 9:07 a.m. in the Hapuna Beach Prince
Hotel, Hau/Lehua Room, 62-100 Kaunaoa Drive, Kohala Coast, Hawaii, with Vice-
Chairperson Hannah Springer presiding.
PRESENT:C. Kimo AlamedaABSENT & EXCUSED: Fred Galdones
Hannah SpringerRene Siracusa
Rodney H. WatanabeJeffrey McCall
AllenSalaveaAndrewIwashita
William R. Graham
Chris Yuen, Deputy Planning Director
Norman Hayashi, Planning Program Manager
Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner
Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner
Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel
And approximately 10 people from the public in attendance.
APPLICANT: PARKER SCHOOL BOARD OF DIRECTORS (USE 05-001)
Discussion and action on the Hearing Officers report on a Use Permit to allow the
establishment of an elementary school on 2.635 acres of land zoned Agricultural 1-acre (A-
1a) and situated within the State Land Use Urban district. The property is located along the
southeast side of Kapiolani Road, approximately 550 feet east of the Kapiolani Road-Lindsey
Road intersection, Waimea, South Kohala, Hawaii, TMK: 6-5-4:portion of 25.
SPRINGER:At this time well begin discussion of agenda item number 1, which is
the applicant Parker School Board of Directors. A discussion and action on the Hearing
Officers report of a Use Permit 05-001 to allow the establishment of an elementary school on
2.635 acres of land zoned Agricultural 1-acre (A-1a) and situated within the State Land Use
Urban district. The property is located along the southeast side of Kapiolani Road,
approximately 550 feet east of the Kapiolani Road-Lindsey Road intersection, Waimea, South
Kohala, Hawaii, tax map key 6-5-4:portion of 25. Norman?
HAYASHI:Thank you Madam Chair. This particular matter was brought before
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you today. However, we received the Hearings Officers report on September 20
and based
onyourrulesitstatesthatthereisa15-daycommentperiodwherethepartiesmayprovide
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day
comments to the Planning Commission on the Hearings Officers report. And that 15
wouldbeonOctober5sothatwouldbeaftertoday.Subsequenttothattherewouldbea7-
day response period on the comments by any party that had submitted comments on the
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Hearings Officers report. Deputy Corporation Counsel Ivan Torigoe had contacted the
partiesto see if they would waive the time requirement. The Applicants representative did
indicate that they had no objections to waivingthe requirement and the planning department
also had no objections. However the Intervenors attorney indicated that they would not be
willing to waive the time requirement. So on that basis we would have to-, we would
recommend that the hearing be continued to-. Or actions on the Hearings Officers report be
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continued until the next meeting which is scheduled for October 21. And we apologize for
not following the proper procedure.
SPRINGER:Thank you for that back ground Norman. Commissioners do you have
any questions of Norman? I see the Applicants representative at the table. May I swear you
in at this time? Could you please raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the
truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission?
GAROVOY:I do.
SPRINGER:Thank you. Could you please provide your name and your address
before proceeding with your testimony?
GAROVOY:Jocelyn Garovoy. Im with Cades Schutte. Were located at 75-170
Hualalai Road, Suite B303 in Kona.
SPRINGER:Thankyou.Mr.TorigoewondersifthereisanIntervenors
representative here?
WOODDELL:I am here. Allen Wooddell. Im the representative for the Intervenor.
SPRINGER:Mr. Wooddell if you could please take a seat and Ill swear you in at
this time also. If you could raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on
this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission?
WOODDELL:I do.
SPRINGER:Thank you sir could you please give your name and address for the
record?
WOODDELL:Allen W. Wooddell. P.O. Box 1119, Kamuela, Hawaii 96743
SPRINGER:Thank you sir. Maam if you could please enter your testimony at this
time.
GAROVOY:Thank you. I just wanted to point out to the Commission that the
Contested Case Hearing was held on July 11, 2005 and if I could just read to you from the
statements that day, the hearing transcript I dont know if you have a copy but its page 166.
And essentially what happened there was the parties agreed to a specific hearing schedule.
The Hearings Officer states, The parties have waived oral argument in terms of closing and
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weve set the following schedule. We have simultaneous exchange for proposed Findings of
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Fact and Conclusions of Law on August 26. The Hearings Officer will complete her
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recommendation by September 20. And were going to pause, the Planning Department is
going to check with the Planning Commission and to see if we can be on the agenda for
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September 30 and thats a Kona meeting so that would be very appropriate. And, so the
point I wanted to make was that Rule 4.1, 4-1 of the Planning Commission Rules of Practice
and Procedure states that, provided that any procedure in a contested case may be modified
or waived by stipulation of the parties. It is the Applicants position that we waived this
procedure because we all sat around and specifically agreed. Now part of that conversation
was held off the record unfortunately and when we all agreed on dates and went back and
forth on the calendar. But I just wanted to raise this for the record because essentially Parker
School just wants to request that the Planning Commission move forward and complete the
application process in a timely manner so that it can get back to its primary mission which is
educating its students.
SPRINGER:Thank you maam. Commissioners any questions for the Applicants
representative.
SALAVEA:Im sorry.
SPRINGER:Commissioner Salavea?
SALAVEA:Could you clarify where thats stated? Were trying to figure out where
thats said in the-.
GAROVOY:The transcript?
SALAVEA:-the transcript.
GAROVOY:Sure. Its on page 166 which is towards the very, very back. Its about
4pagesfromtheend.
SALAVEA:Thankyou.
SPRINGER:Other Commissioners questions for the testifier? Thank you. Mr.
Wooddell do you have any comments to make?
WOODDELL:Actually I guess I was surprised when they made such a tight schedule
and I assume that maybe the Commission-, uh the Hearings Officer was going to try and get
the record in earlier so they would meet the rules. But I-, you know, if its their position that I
waive the rules and the procedure well I guess thats something that youre going to have to
decide on your own but I dont feel I did. So, we certainly have no-. I mean I would like the
opportunity to file my objections to the Hearings Officers decision, which is obviously very
adverse to the neighbors. And so I always thought rules were rules but its obviously up to
the Commission. Thank you.
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GAROVOY:If I could just add one more thing, I dont want to confuse the
Commission. But you guys also have a rule 4-24 that requires you to make a decision within
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90 days of the Contested Case hearing. The Contested Case Hearing was held on July 11.
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So 90 days from there puts us at October 11 I believe. So its a little bit problematic to hold
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the next meeting on October 21 unless we get something clear on the record cause we dont
want to violatethe ruleson that also. Okay.
SPRINGER:Thank you maam. Id like toask our Deputy Corporation Counsel Mr.
Torigoe to comment on the discussion thats presently before us. Also thePlanning
Commissioners only received the Hearings Officers report this morning. I have not had a
chance to read it. Its lengthy. Im not comfortable acting on it having only received it this
morning.
TORIGOE:Thank you Madam Chair. If there is going to be a waiver of the rules I
think it would be best to, you know to do it clearly on the record. And so Id like to just get
clear what exactly on the record constitutes the waiver of the 15-day requirement or was it
basically off record discussions that were kind of acquiescent in that little conference that you
mentioned on the record?
GAROVOY:Well just to be clear the off the record discussion I mean I dont really
knowifitswhatweweretalkingaboutitwasjustvacationschedulesandthatsortofthing.
We had initially set a date of August 15 for the Findings of Fact but that didnt go on the
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record. What went on the record was the August 26 date. But that was-, the position Im
taking is that the waiver is in the agreement to the schedule itself. That the waiver is
(inaudible) in that and we all agreed to that schedule.
TORIGOE:Well lets see if we look at page 166 of the agenda it says, The
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Hearings Officer will complete her recommendation by September 20 and were going to the
Planning Department is going to check with the Planning Commission and see if we can be on
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the agenda for September 30 and thats a Kona meeting so that would be very appropriate.
Theres certain lack of precision there that you know to me its a little, I feel a little
uncomfortable saying that theres a clear waiver of the 15 day rule on that. I think its
something that, Commissioners if you feel that its clear enough and you really want to go
ahead you could but then theres also the practical problem if youre having just received the
recommendation this morning and you have not gotten input from the intervenor regarding
that recommendation. Also when I spoke to the parties earlier this week I spoke to Mr.
Vitousekandhedidnotmentionthewaivertomeatthattime.Sothatkindofconcernsme
also.
WOODDELL:Could I just say something?
SPRINGER:Mr. Wooddell we have a Commissioner who has a query may I take
himfirst?CommissionerWatanabe?
WATANABE:MyquestionwouldbeforCounsel.TheApplicantbroughtupapoint
of the 90-days and its my understanding that with the 90-day rule if we dont respond within
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that time then its an automatic denial. But arent there ways around that and could you
clarify that for us? Because I think that would help us to decide whether you know we
absolutely need to hear it today or not.
SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner Watanabe. Mr. Torigoe?
TORIGOE:At this point, the rule 4-24 is a more general rule that is outside of the
part 2 of the contested case procedure which talks about what you do when you have
recommendations of the Hearings Officer. It seems to me that if youre going to, basically
that the hearings not really entirely completed at this point because allyou have is a
recommendation from the Hearings Officer and you still have the option of reopening the
hearing and taking inmore evidence if you want to do that. So, at this point I would have to
say that I dont think youre bound to have to make a decision.
WATANABE:Sothe90-dayruleisnotapplicable?
TORIGOE:YeahatthispointyouknowifIhavetomakearecommendationatthis
point Id say that you could still have time to go and take the exceptions to the Hearings
Officers report and reopen the hearing if you feel thats necessary as well.
WATANABE:Thank you.
SPRINGER:Mr. Torigoe may I just clear then, be clear then has the hearing been
closed?
TORIGOE:The Hearings Officer has held some evidentiary hearings but I dont
think that the entire hearing on the application is closed because you still have to act on the
Hearings Officers recommendation.
SPRINGER:And thats the hearing that is referred to in 4-24? The Planning
Commission Hearing?
TORIGOE:Yeah I have a hard time at this point. I havent parsed this you know to
the letter at this point but I just have a hard time saying that you are bound to act without had
an opportunity yourselves to really take a good look at the Hearings Officers report and
responses. And to see if you need to take further evidence yourself.
SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioner Salavea?
TORIGOE:Let me just say another thing you could do is to say that you feel like at
this point you want to reopen the hearing. I mean if you really want to you know start playing
games with the rules you could say that we feel that we havent had a chance to look at all of
the comments of the Hearings Officer as well as any responses and you feel like you need to
reopen the hearing at this point to make sure that thats done. You know you could do that.
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SPRINGER:Before I go to Commissioner Salavea, Mr. Torigoe we have not had a
chance to review the records so I for one do not know if I do or do not feel that the record is
complete. Could we move for the hearing to be reopened to receive evidence at our next
meeting?
TORIGOE:Well I think you certainly could do that. The technical timing question
were talking about is whether-, if the 90 days has already been triggered by the end of the
Hearings Officers hearing whether that next hearing would be within that 90 days or not.
SPRINGER:And is it?
TORIGOE:I dont know can you-?
SPRINGER:Hang on Commissioner Watanabe, we have Commissioner Salavea and
Mr.WooddellIknowthatyourestandingbyalso.Norman?
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HAYASHI:ThehearingwasonJuly11 so that would take us to around October
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11, the 90-day.
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SPRINGER:Andthe day that weve discussed is October 21.
HAYASHI:Our next meeting is in Hilo thats next week Friday but we would not
be able to meet the 6-calendar day requirement to publish that in.
SPRINGER:Maam?
GAROVOY:This might help. The Applicant is okay with continuing the hearing.
We just, my reading of the rule 4-24 whichissues the, which sets forth the 90-day time limit
is that the period of time if it goes over 90 days has to be agreed upon by all parties. And I
just wanted to get the agreement on the record and then I think you guys can be pau with this
for today.
SPRINGER:Commissioner Salavea do you have anything? Commissioner
Watanabe do you have anything? Mr. Wooddell?
WOODDELL:No, I dont have anything further maam.
SPRINGER:Thank you. Mr. Yuen did I see your hand?
TORIGOE:Well at this point it sounds like as far as the timing goes the parties are
willingtostipulatethatthe90-dayperiodevenithasstartedcanbeextendeduntilthenext
hearing. So, that would take care of that problem.
YUEN:The County being a party also would stipulate to extending the time
limit.ImnotsurethatthatismeanttoapplytoamatterthathasbeenreferredtoaHearing
Officer though.
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TORIGOE:I dont think so either. I agree with that as I said beforeI dont think
that the time limit has actually started yet but in an abundance of caution if the parties are in
agreementthat the 90-day limit will not prevent your taking up this matter at the next Kona
meeting with that agreement on the record there should not be a problem.
SPRINGER:From the Applicants representative do you agree to these stipulations?
GAROVOY:I do agree. If I may add one more thing.
SPRINGER:Maam?
GAROVOY:You started to open a can of worms with reopening the hearing and I do
believe the hearing was formally closed if you turn to page 169 the very first line says, The
hearing is closed. And it was specifically intended to address this issue that you know that
there be a finding that the hearing was closed and then no more evidence be taken. Thats all.
SPRINGER:And you do agree with the stipulation to continue.
GAROVOY:And I do agree to the stipulation to continue.
SPRINGER:Mr. Wooddell?
WOODDELL:Well certainly my understanding was never that the hearing was closed.
AsIunderstooditthehearingwasclosedbytheHearingsOfficerbutcertainlydidntprevent
additional information or evidence to be introduced as any objections or answers to the
exceptions or answer to the exceptions or any other information that the Planning
Commission may want to take at another hearing. So other than that, I would just say I would
certainly waive any objection to the 90-days. Thank you.
SPRINGER:Thank you sir. Commissioner Salavea?
SALAVEA:This is for Counsel. Is the-, is any additional information gathered
during the waiting period considered to be part of the-? I guess I need clarification on which
hearing were talking about the hearing on the Commissions hearing this item or the hearing
to gather evidence by the Hearings Officer?
TORIGOE:The Hearings Officer is not going to be gathering anymore information
at this point.
SALAVEA:Okay.
TORIGOE:The Hearings Officers job is done. So you have the recommendation
before you and hopefully by the next meeting you will have a response from the intervenor
and possibly a rebuttal from the applicant and so youll have all that in front of you hopefully.
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And from that then you can decide whether you have enough information or if you need to
reopen the hearing to gather more evidence as the Commission.
SALAVEA:Okay. Thank you.
SPRINGER:Commissioners youve heard the discussion. Do you have any further
discussion on this matter? Seeing none well take a motion to continue this item Parker
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School Board of Directors Use Permit 05-001 to the October 21 meeting of the Hawaii
County Planning Commission. Is there a motion?
WATANABE:So moved.
SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner Watanabe. Is there a second?
ALAMEDA:Second.
SPRINGER:Thank you Commissioner Alameda. Is there any discussion onthe
motion to continue this matter? Seeing none. Norman were ready for the roll call vote.
HAYASHI:Commissioner Watanabe?
WATANABE:Aye.
HAYASHI:Commissioner Alameda?
ALAMEDA:Yes.
HAYASHI:Commissioner Graham?
GRAHAM:Aye.
HAYASHI:Commissioner Salavea?
SALAVEA:Aye.
HAYASHI:Chair Springer?
SPRINGER:Yes.
HAYASHI:Chair motion carries.
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SPRINGER:Thank you. Well meet again in Hilo on October 21. Im sorry Kona.
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Thankyou.Kona,October21.
HAYASHI:MadamChairIdohaveaquestionregardingthepresenceofthe
Hearings Officer. Would you want her to be at the meeting, at that meeting to respond to any
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questions that you may have regarding her report? I know there was a problem oncebefore
where Ms. Song on another matter that she had objected to the Hearing Officer being there to
respond to his report. So I just wanted to find out if you wanted me to have her, contact her to
be present at the meeting.
SPRINGER:In my time on the Planning Commission we have both had Hearings
Officers present and not present. Mr. Yuen do you have any thoughts on the matter?
YUEN:Id just like to state my recommendation on this. The role of the
Hearing Officer is to hear evidence, digest the evidence, present an objective summary of the
evidence, and to make a recommended decision based on that evidence. And then the
Planning Commission should take that and make its own decision. The Hearing Officer is not
an advocate for any side or even an advocate for the Hearing Officers decision. The report
should be complete in itself. The Commission has access to the exhibits and has access to the
transcript.AtthehearingwheretheCommissionmakesadecisionwhentheseareall
contested matters where there are representatives of each side to the extent that the
representatives of the sides differ with the Hearing Officer they can make those arguments.
They can point to items in the record like exhibits or testimony that they believe contradict the
Hearing Officer. And then the other side can also make those same kinds of arguments and
citations to the record. And the Planning Department can do so as well. That being the case
there is a problem potentially with-. The Commission naturally wants to, may want to have
the Hearing Officer clarify issues that are in the report. But you dont want to have the
Hearing Officer testify on anything that is actually not in the record. If it is I the record the
Counsel for either side or the Planning Department can point out where its in the record. If
its a matter of a-. And often times these things dont boil down to disputes about what the
facts are. They really end up with a value judgement, a balancing test that is in the hands of
the Commission. Typically it involves a degree of annoyance, a degree of impact to people in
the surrounding neighborhood versus what the Applicant wants to do. The Hearing Officer
has stated the Hearing Officers idea of that balance. The Commissioners are appointed to
vote on your idea of that balance and so I dont see the Hearing Officers role as to come here
and to argue where that, where that line should be drawn. So for these reasons its my
recommendation that we not as a matter of course invite the Hearing Officer to come and
present the report. The report has already been presented in writing.
SPRINGER:Thank you Director Yuen. Commissioners having heard the Directors
comments do you have any discussion on the matter? Commissioner Graham?
GRAHAM:Im certainly willing to go along with the Planning Directors
recommendation but I also just like think of a parallel like in a normal application not a
contested case application we have before us. We get a background report which has all the
material on the white paper and then we get the Planning Directors recommendation on the
orange paper whatever and so I feel like the same situation kind of applies there. We could
say well the Planning Director has only read the same material that you know and hes
decided this that and the other thing is the recommendation. Notwithstanding that I find it
very useful and I think most of the Commission does to query the Planning Department about
why they said this or that in the recommendation so Im certain that those kinds of thoughts
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will probably arise from me and others here but I think we have a very complete record Im
sure willing to do without the Planning, without the consultant in this case.
SPRINGER:Thank you Mr. Graham. Other Commissioners? In that case Norman I
think that we will not be inviting the Hearing Officer to be present with us.
HAYASHI:Thank you.
SPRINGER:Youre welcome. Commissioners are there any further discussion?
This discussion ended at 9:34 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Lynette Marushige, West Hawaii Secretary
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