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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004-10-01 THOLMES PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT OCTOBER 1, 2004 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of STEVE HOLMES (SMA 04-008) was called to order at 12:14 p.m. in the Ohana Keauhou Beach Resort, Kahaluu Ballroom, 78-6740 Alii Drive, North Kona, Hawaii, with Second Vice-Chairman Hannah Springer presiding. PRESENT:Hannah SpringerABSENT & EXCUSED: Fred Galdones C. Kimo Alameda Earl Fujikawa William Graham Jeffrey McCall Rene€SiracusaBillP.Thibadeau Francis Smith Ivan Torigoe, Deputy Corporation Counsel Christopher Yuen, Planning Director Phyllis Fujimoto, Staff Planner Jeff Darrow, Staff Planner Kiran Emler representing Department of Public Works And approximately 10 people from the public in attendance APPLICANT: STEVE HOLMES (SMA 04-008) Special Management Area (SMA) Use Permit to allow the conversion of a single family dwelling into a 3-unit multiple family residential structure and related improvements. The 5,419-square foot property is located 230 feet east (mauka) of Alii Drive and KahaluuBeach Park, Kahaluu Beach Lots, North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: 7-8-14:41. SPRINGER:Our next agenda item is Applicant Steve Holmes, a Special Management Area Use Permit, 04-008, to allow the conversion of a single-family dwelling into a 3-unit multiple family residential structure and related improvements. The 5,419-square foot property is located 230 feet east (mauka) of Alii Drive and Kahaluu Beach Park, Kahaluu Beach Lots, North Kona, Hawaii, TMK: 7-8-14:41. Mr. Darrow? DARROW:Thank you, Madam Chair. If I may direct your attention to the location map, again, the area of this application is the North Kona area. More specifically, we are looking in the Kahaluu Beach Park area which is identified here. The green is the open area fronting the Kahaluu Beach area. This white line running in a north-south direction is Alii Drive; and the area of the application is identified by this red dot located here. The purple that you see on the map is, signifies Resort-Hotel zoning; and as you can see it€s, surrounding the property is zoned Resort-Hotel. The brown and lighter shades of brown represent Multiple-Family Residential zoning. EXHIBIT C The Applicant in this case, Steve Holmes, is requesting a Special Management Area Permit to be able to change his single-family dwelling and convert it to a 3-unit Multiple Family residence. We€ve sent around some pictures showing the actual structure that is already in place. It has received a building permit and has been constructed. The actual lot itself is 5,419 square feet in size. This is basically interior renovation. We€ve received no letters of opposition as of today, but we did receive one today from Mr. Gimpel. There was a comment letter from Department of Health regarding the wastewater system. We€ve addressed that in Condition 4, requiring the Applicant to install a septic system or to connect with the sewer. ThePlanningDirectorisrecommendingapprovalofthisSpecialManagementArea Permit by the Planning Commission. Are there any questions? SPRINGER:Commissioners? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:Does the County wastewater system not extend that far out on Alii Drive? DARROW:I€m not sure; but if at some point that that is an option for the Applicant, they can do that. I€m not sure how far the sewer system runs in this area. Basically, it appears that it doesn€t because of the fact that the residents in this area are hooking up to septic systems. GRAHAM:Thank you. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen? YUEN:There isn€t any, nobody within at least a quarter mile is hooked up to a sewer. SPRINGER:Any follow-up, Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:No. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners? Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yeah. I see that the Special Management Area Use Permit, the single-family dwelling was exempted from the requirements in €96. Was the owner the same or is it a different property owner at this point in time? DARROW:At the time that the Applicant, I mean, that the project received an exemption, it was owned by American Exchange Services, so that was a different owner. 2 SIRACUSA:Okay. I was wondering about the long gap between that and the current request and -. DARROW:It might be a better -. SIRACUSA:But that might explain it then. Okay. Thank you. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen? YUEN:I think the Applicant could correct us but I think it was actually the same person, and there was a long gap in building this project, and -. This was a subject of a lot of discussion in the Department with the Applicant about whether he would have to go for a, whether we€d make him go for a SMA Major Permit because the original, a onesinglefamilyhomeisexemptifit€snotpartofalargerdevelopment.The Department can make a decision that it should get a SMA Permit if it has a significant environmental or ecological effect. We would not look, have looked at this, we do not, the previous administration nor myself looked at the initial home as having a significant effect. The question comes into play in that if you, you can then, you build a house and then if you convert it to a duplex for under, or, you convert it to a duplex or even a triplex for under $125,000, then it can be an SMA Minor Permit rather than a Major Permit. Whereas, if you apply from the beginning for a triplex, you would need, you would definitely need an SMA Major Permit. This has a potential for abuse; and in the end we decided that we would not accept it as a Minor Permit based on the value of the conversion, but we would require a Major Permit based on the fact that you were going to end up with proposed three units. SIRACUSA:The reason, part of the reason I asked was because I was under the impression that when someone applies for a permit, they€re supposed to be applying for the whole project, not just little piecemeal bits of it, even if they choose not to develop everything immediately but only in phases. And, so, that long-time gap made me pause because he says now that his wife is handicapped and can€t access the upper floors of the structure. And I can understand that, I have trouble with steps, too. But I was wondering if he has known about this all this time and was just trying to get around that, or if this is something recent that has come up, or if someone else had owned it previously. That€s the way my mind was working on that, the questions that were raised, yeah. SPRINGER:Thank you. Any further comments? Questions of the staff? If there are none, at this time I€d like to invite the Applicant€s representative forward, and any members of the audience who would like to testify on this matter, following the applicant€s representative. Mr. Gimpel, you€re already under oath. We have also an Ellen, and I€m not sure of the pronunciation -. 3 KJOS:Kjos (pronounced chose). SPRINGER:Kjos. Ellen, if you could please raise your hand, along with Mr. Mooers? Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter now before the Hawaii County Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS:I do. SPRINGER:Thank you. Mr. Mooers, if you could give us your name and your residence address for the record? MOOERS:My name is Greg Mooers. My address is P.O. Box 1101, Kamuela 96743. SPRINGER:Thankyou.YouhavereceivedtheBackgroundReportand Recommendations? MOOERS:Yes, I have. SPRINGER:Do you have any comments on that or on anything else -? MOOERS:Yeah, I€d like to clarify some of the situations as, some of the questions raised by Commissioner Siracusa. Mr. Holmes, who owns the property, and he did own the property at the time. He was an Exchange and that€s why, I think, it was -. American Exchange Services, I think, was listed as the Applicant for the SMA determination eight years ago. Mr. Holmes is an elderly man. He€s in his late 70s. He has been trying to construct this home on his own for the last eight years. His wife recently did have surgeries on both knees and she€s unable to climb the stairs. Unfortunately, Mr. Holmes was going to be here today but his health has deteriorated to the point where he was not able to travel. Hopefully, he€ll be back before the end of the year. So it was not a scheme on his part to get a single-family dwelling and then somehow make it into an apartment. He had the zoning for the apartment and he has complied now with the SMA Major Permit on this. There is no increase in the number of bedrooms in the home. It€s simply a conversion of a single-family dwelling into three levels; and he would add two additional kitchens, so the work really would become interior. We do understand the Director€s position regarding the possible abuse of acquiring an SMA exemption for single-family home and then using conversion under $125,000. In this case, I would certainly argue that€s not the situation with Mr. Holmes. And I wish he could be present today to meet with you, I think you would understand the situation somewhat better at that time. Anyway, unless you have any other questions, we have read the conditions; and I think that they adequately address the concerns expressed by the agencies. 4 SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Mooers. Commissioners, do you have any questions for Mr. Mooers? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:The only issue that sent up a flag for me was the wastewater one. And, funny, I€m going through my Background Report here and I can€t find it but it seems like I remember it saying that the Department of Health said that the individual septic system is only good for two units, not for three. And then reading that you€re going to, if you got the SMA Permit, you€re going to thereafter apply for a variance for three units. Am I getting that out of nowhere or what? MOOERS:No, we have not -. It wasn€t till just recently when Mr. Darrow indicated that the Department of Health said that no more than two units off a septic system would be allowed. And, so, we are, yeah, clearly, the way the condition is written isthatwhateverthewastewatertreatmentsystem,ithastomeetwiththeapprovalofthe Department of Health; and that needs to be revisited. There was a septic system approved by the Department of Health by the, when the American Exchange, whatever their entity was that owned it, at that time for a single-family dwelling. So it may very well have to be revisited with the Department of Health; but whatever system is installed will have to meet the Department of Health approval. GRAHAM:Okay. So do we have correspondence from the Department of Health? So far we don€t have one on this one? MOOERS:The only correspondence I saw is that they said they had no record of the septic system. And, so, I sent a response to them saying that they had approved it and gave them the engineer€s name, gave them the Applicant€s name. But subsequent to that, I talked with Mr. Darrow and he said that they have concerns about the number of units. And, so, that whole issue has to be revisited and meet with their approval. GRAHAM:So, I guess it€s a what do you do now, what do you later issue.‚ For me, like obviously the wastewater is an issue when you€re just mauka of a very special beach park. And I presume if the Department of Health has rules that say two units only, that the rules are there for some reason. So I don€t feel good about approving a three-unit project unless I know the wastewater will be handled in a proper way. And what you€re telling me, I think, is that if the Department of Health won€t go along with it, you€re going to have to do something different anyway to make sure that they will go along with it. MOOERS:I think it€s, the condition says install a septic system with leech field meeting with the approval of the Department of Health and the Certificate of Occupancy will only be approved upon compliance with this. So that that issue does have to be resolved. I can€t tell you what the resolution of that issue would be today, other than the fact that it has to meet with the Department of Health approval. GRAHAM:And the only -. 5 SIRACUSA:I was just going to say so we can approve this contingent upon approval from the Department of Health? MOOERS:Yeah, that€s whatthe condition says, Condition 4. GRAHAM:And my real concernabout the SMA and the ocean resources is, you know, nutrients entering the ground water; and my understanding is that the Department of Health is not dealing with that issue. The Department of Health is dealing with the issues is it safe forpeople to be in the ocean off of this. It€s not, the Department of Health is not dealing with what€s the impact on algae blooms or anything else like that. So that€s what leaves me concerned about these individual treatment systems there, just in the way, you know, from Puako people have always been concerned about the cesspools which are even less efficient than a septic system. So I don€t know where I€m goingwithitbutI€mconcernedaboutproliferationofsepticsystemssoneartheoceanat such a special point as this. SPRINGER:Commissioner Graham, could we perhaps ask the Director to make comments on your question and how he might have analyzed the situation before bringing the recommendation to us? GRAHAM:Please. Thank you. YUEN:I think what you€re saying about nutrient levels is correct insofar as the Department of Health regulations in where they allow septic versus cesspools versus sewer. Septic versus cesspools is a health issue rather than a nutrient issue. I would not look at nutrients as being very significant in a question of an SMA Permit going from a one unit to a three-unit approval, especially well away from the shoreline where you€re going to have a septic system and not a cesspool anyway. SPRINGER:Mr. Graham, any follow-up? DARROW:If I could -. SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa? I€m sorry, Mr. Darrow. DARROW:I was just going to mention to Commissioner Graham that the area he was referring to is in the Background Report on page 3, No. 22, and that was referencing the information from the Department of Health and also regarding the variance. But, again, we€ve tried to address that in the condition that they need to install an approved septic system meeting with the Department of Health. So if their approval is only for two units then, at that point, if there is a variance process, then maybe they can apply through that. SPRINGER:Thank you both. Commissioner Siracusa, do you have a question or comment? 6 SIRACUSA:No. SPRINGER:Other Commissioners? If there are no additional questions or comments for the Applicant€s representative, I€d like to invite Mr. Mooers to step back and invite our two testifiers, Mr. Gimpel and Ms. Kjos, to come forward. Ms. Kjos, if you could please give us your name and your address for the record and then offer your testimony. KJOS:My name is Ellen, the name is pronounced Chose (phonetically). SPRINGER:Chose (phonetically), I€m sorry. Ma€am, if you could use the microphone. KJOS:Okay,mynameisEllen.ThelastnameisChose(phonetically), like you€re sneezing. I reside at 78-6703B, Alii Drive. My property is that little jog, you know, right -. DARROW:Here? KJOS:No, come down, come down. Right there. SPRINGER:The testifier has indicated the location of her property on the exhibit map. KJOS:Some of the questions that you ask earlier, I can answer. The sewer stops at Saint Peters Catholic Church. I called, whatever his name is, and told him that if Steve was interested in putting in a new sewer, that I would go in with him and dig the trench, because you have to hookup to the Keauhou system. So, years ago, I got a quote of $20,000. That€s kind of prohibitive for one person. But if anybody that lives up in there, we are all on either septic or sewer, not sewer but septic or cesspool. If everybody went together, it would be very economical, and we could hook up to Keauhou. His representative told me that there was no need. I have some pictures here. My main concern is the driveway and parking. This man has parking for four cars. He, himself, has two. These are his two cars, right there. This is his driveway, which he has allowed to deteriorate to a gully. It runs down, it has undermine the apron that was placed there before I ever bought in 1997. It was placed there to stop the erosion. It has undermined that. It has gone all the way down. And every time it rains hard, I go down and I scoop dirt and refuse from the Alii Drive. The City also has a payloader that comes. It is actually going over down into the park, cause it€s all paved now, all goes down over. I€m sure you got this. It shows he has four parking spots. With three units, he€s going to have six or seven cars, which means they€re going to be parking blocking the driveway, they€re going to be parking in my land, in the neighbor€s land. Besides there€s no yard 7 for children to play, absolutely no yard. And I have no yard, either, which is the main reason why I do mine as a vacation rental, because there are no yards. One, two, two other properties that are among the five of us have a yard, nobody else does. Nobody in that whole five cul-de-sac thing does anything about the driveway except me. I have put an average of $2,000 a year into keeping that driveway so that you can drive on it. Just, let€s see the date, 8/20, I spent $874. I have the receipts for that. I do this because it has to be done. Nobody ever offers to help or even gives a thank you. It just, as a 3-bedroom or as 3-unit is notfeasible unless these issues are dealt with. SPRINGER:Thank you. Commissioners, do you have any questions for the testifier? Commissioner -. SIRACUSA:I am concerned about this runoff issue. And I was wondering if staffhadlookedatthatquestionwhentheywerepreparingtheBackgroundReport. SPRINGER:Mr.DarroworMr.Yuen? DARROW:Arewereferringtoduring,well,atthispointconstructionhasbeen completed. We do have our standard condition, Condition No. 5 dealing with runoff. But this is mainly -. SIRACUSA:Excuse me, that€s during construction? DARROW:Correct. Yes, it€s -. SIRACUSA:And it€s pretty obvious that external construction has ceased, at least according to the application here, and that they€ll only be doing work on the interior, which is not expected to affect, you know, things on the outside. But there€s obviously, according to the testimony, a problem with surface runoff from the parcel itself, and that can affect properties that are makai. It has, if there are very bad storms, a potential to, actually, do some runoff into the ocean. So I€m wondering why there€s nothing addressing that as a permanent solution to a run-off problem. SPRINGER:Mr. Darrow? DARROW:Correct me if I€m wrong, but we€re looking at an application on a piece of property that€s approximately 5,000 square feet in size. It€s relatively small. I believe the pictures that the testifier is referring to is a perpetual easement that€s going to be partly responsible from the Applicant but it is also going to be relative to other homes in the area. As far as runoff, this person is going to be responsible for his own runoff regarding, you know, weather. But it also, this situation may also be runoff that€s coming mauka of this property that€s also contributing to the problems that you see on this roadway. SIRACUSA:Will the testifier care to comment on that response? 8 KJOS:The gully, as pictured, is not on the perpetual easement. It€s right, it€s his land -. NOMURA:Excuse me, microphone. KJOS:Sorry. The gully, as pictured, is not on the perpetual easement. It is on his land. He has never done anything to his driveway in the seven years that I have owned the property. He has never hauled in anything, he has never had a caterpillar or anything; and it€s, you can€t even walk. And, you know, because I don€t go on his property, it was very difficult for me to take pictures. But you cannot even walk on his, in front of his house there, it€s so rough. And, by the way, the lady in question is not his wife. They€re not married. DARROW:Okay.TheCommissionersdohavetheopportunityof,if,you know, you feel that it€s needed to address this issue that a condition can be added regarding runoff. But, again, I happened to do a site inspection on this property, and I€m not there when it€s raining, but looking at it, it is a very small parcel and there are quite a number of other dwellings in the area. And it is an area that is sloped so there could be potential runoff coming off from other areas mauka of this property that are contributing to the roadway problems that we€re seeing here. SPRINGER:Commissioner Alameda? ALAMEDA:Yes, if I may. I€m looking at the conditions and I€m trying to, in my mind, play this out. Since the building is already completed, like I€m looking at Condition No. 2, it says construction of the proposed development.‚ So some of the conditions appear to me as if the project has not been completed yet. So, I kind of, like Condition 2 where it says the Plans shall identify all existing and proposed structures, landscaping, paved driveways‚ and things of that nature, but that condition wouldn€t necessarily apply to this particular Applicant because the house is completed? Is that correct? DARROW:They would address the issues that the testifier is speaking about regarding parking, landscaping -. ALAMEDA:But it still would apply, then, and it would address -? DARROW:Yes. ALAMEDA:Okay. DARROW:As far as runoff, though, that might be another -. ALAMEDA:Another issue? 9 DARROW:Yes. ALAMEDA:Okay. Thanks. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen? YUEN:Just to refer, again, to the fact that we€re dealing with an SMA Permit. And I don€t know if you were here forthe earlier discussion, there€s a, the property is zoned for Multi-Family use. The permit that he€s getting, there€s several things that we€re supposed to consider. Roads and traffic, we can only consider to a very limited extent, as wediscussedearlier, to the extent that they cause a significant environmental or ecological effect in the coastal area. They may affect public access or evacuation from the, the ability to evacuate people from the area. Ithinkthetestifier€scomplaintwiththerunoffisthattheroadis,getsdifficulttouse,not that there€s runoff into the ocean. The property is quite aways from the ocean, separated from the ocean by Alii Drive and by the Kahaluu Beach Park. The project does not, the conversion of an existing dwelling from a single-family dwelling to three units is not going to change the runoff situation. The footprint doesn€t change the way the water runs off, it will not change as well. And we did not take up, we appreciate the comments of the Department of Public Works. We want them to give us their comments regardless of where we may ultimately have to go with this. But we did not put on roadway improvement on, even driveway improvements on this because we could not credibly tie those to the environment, or ecology of the coastal zone, or the public access, or the safe evacuation from the property, given the fact that this is only proposed for three units in an existing building that doesn€t increase the number of bedrooms. Finally, the parking, there€s an overall parking requirement in the County Zoning Code that calls for 1.25 spaces for multi-family buildings, apartment-type buildings. So that works out to 3.75 for a three units, and we rounded it off to four for this project so that they would be required to have four. This is the kind of thing that you really can€t do on a family-by-family basis. There has to be an overall standard for it. You don€t know who€s going to, you know, people can, it may be that this is outmoded as this was done sometime ago. But if we€re going to change it, we need to change it for everybody rather than try to figure out how many people live in a particular building and adjust it on a site- specific basis. SPRINGER:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Yeah. I noticed in Condition 2, that referred to landscaping requirements of the Department. And I€m wondering if we can just take that a little bit to say that landscaping should attempt to mitigate runoff that has been generated on the property. I know exactly how long 500 feet is, because I have a driveway and it€s 300 feet, and I can, you know, extrapolate from there. And I know that when it rains very 10 heavily I do get runoff going down onto the County road, and I have to clean it upon a regular basis. So there is a possibility if there are really strong rains and certainly throwing some grass seed down can help to modify that; and I don€t see that it would be out of place to ask that this be thrown in with the landscaping requirement. SPRINGER:Mr. Darrow, you have any comments on Commissioner€s thoughts? DARROW:I would ask if the Director agrees with the request. YUEN:I€m not sure what€s contemplated by having landscaping mitigate the runoff. How would the landscaping, how would you, how would the -? I€m not even sure what the, I think the problem is being addressed -. SIRACUSA:Ifyouhadsomeplantsinthere,theywouldhelptoabsorbsomeof the runoff and actually act as filters. Grass seed, for example, could do that. YUEN:I think that the question is runoff along the driveway. I€m not sure what you plant along the driveway -. SIRACUSA:I don€t think she was talking about the driveway. YUEN:No, you€re talking about something? KJOS:That€s all there is, is driveway. There is no yard, there is no yard whatsoever. It€s all driveway or parking, and it€s all ruts and rocks; and it does go down onto Alii Drive, and I have to go shovel it off. The County brings a payloader and pushes it off of, I mean, it goes out past the center line and partial of it goes on down, because it€s all black top down there now. But I go down with the shovel and a wheelbarrow and I bring it back up. SPRINGER:I wonder, I have a question for Director Yuen. Some of what the testifier is bringing to our attention seems to be within the domain of the neighborhood rather than under the conditions and circumstances of an SMA application. With regard to the runoff, and the dumping of runoff on the testifier€s property, and also on the common areas, is there any recourse for her other than interaction with her neighbor? KJOS:Could I say something before you think too hard? It doesn€t affect my property per se. It€s all easement. The whole driveway is easement. It€s just that everybody else that lives in there is a renter. I€m the only owner, so everything falls on me to clean up all of this debris. And that was only time I have any power, is he€s applying to change the way his property was intended to be used which, by the way, is not a last-minute thing like he€s saying, either. Two years ago, he approached me to add it to my website and run it as a vacation rental. So this has been in the back of his mind for more than what his lady friend€s illness has been. It€s just, and I have no problem with it. I own a vacation rental, I have no problem with it. I would rather have people 11 who are coming and going occasionally than somebody who lives thereall the time. My problem is nobody gives me any help, nobody is willing to put any blacktop down. I have gotten estimates for black top, I have gotten estimates to dig into, hookup to a sewer so we can all not pollute the ocean. Nobody will do anything. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen, again, I€m not sure that this is a proper discussion for the Planning Commission under the consideration of the SMA. Do you have any guidance, perhaps for the testifier, on recourse to her? YUEN:I hate to do that because I don€t know what the terms of the easement are, whether they require common maintenance. So I wouldn€t want to venture to give an opinion on that. SPRINGER:Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments for the testifier?Mr.Gimpel,Ialreadyhaveyournameandyouraddress.Ifwecouldhaveyour testimony, please. GIMPEL:All right, thank you. Again, for the Kona Traffic Safety Committee, we have two concerns. First, the addition of two residences over that, that has already been approved, will add between two and four vehicles a day to Alii Drive, which is fast becoming pretty crowded, as you know, saturated with multi-family developments along most of its length. And it€s a very dangerous roadway with six fatalities in the last several years, three years, I believe. These added cars and, as I€ll get to in a minute, the lack of parking in this particular project will make it more difficult to achieve access to the ocean and to Kahaluu Beach Park because there will be more cars parked along Alii Drive. So we suggest, as far as the Alii Drive problem, that the Applicant be required to contribute a fair share to mass transit along Alii Drive. Let€s improve that. Second, the site plan appears to indicate only four parking spaces. As you€ve already heard, three are regular and one for disability. But because three residences could easily involve six vehicles and additional spaces will be required for guests, we suggest that the Applicant be required to provide additional parking on the property. That will avoid the parking on Alii Drive when guests come and, therefore, allow better access to the ocean. Thank you. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Gimpel. Questions or comments for the testifier? Mr. Yuen and staff, any comments on Mr. Gimpel€s comments on parking? YUEN:We should treat parking the same for everybody. The Code says 1-1/4, he should have 1-1/4. I think it€s quite speculative that the occupants of this dwelling would park on Alii Drive. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Yuen. Questions or comments to the testifiers? Thank you both for contributing to today€s record. Mr. Mooers, welcome back to the 12 table. And do you have any comments based on the testimony and discussion that you heard? MOOERS:Oh, yeah, I€ve been doing this for awhile. I guess, first, Ms. Kjos did call me and discussed her concerns about the shared access. And I talked with Mr. Holmes and I conveyed to her that he would be more than happy to pay his fair share of maintaining that driveway. According to Mr. Holmes, there€s feeling in the community because of the volume of traffic generated by her vacation rental that she should be responsible for paying most of it. So, I guess, there is a, I would say a dispute among neighbors as to who€s responsible for what. But Mr. Holmes has assured me that he€s more than happy to pay his fair share to maintain that. The one thing I would point out about this proposal is while we are talking about going from one unit to three units, we€re not talking about increasing the number of bedrooms. Allright?Sowe€renot,Imean,ifitwasdevelopedasasingle-familydwelling,itwould still have the same number of bedrooms and the same number of people could inhabit that house and have the same number of cars. And it€s not a situation where we€re adding, say, additional densities as far as bedrooms. Yeah, in all likelihood, we probably will add more people because, you know, typically there€ll be two people. But I do want to point out that we€re not asking for additional units. As far as the parking, I guess, I would echo Mr. Yuen€s sentiments that the Code is the Code; and if it€s adequate, it€s adequate for everybody; and if it€s inadequate, then it ought be changed for everybody. But I don€t think it€s fair to Mr. Holmes, or to any other applicant, to change it on a case-by-case basis. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Mooers. Commissioners, any questions or comments for Mr. Mooers? MOOERS:Could I make one more statement? In regard to the illusion that there€s some, I misled you regarding Mr. Holmes€ thoughts as far as when he anticipated -. I think the records of the Planning Department will show that over a year- and-half ago, he did apply for an SMA for this; and it took a while for the Department to figure out how they were going to respond. So, you know, I don€t mean to imply that Mr. Holmes decided last week. He filed an application about a year-and-a-half ago for this; and at that time I think he filed an SMA Minor. An assessment was done. He was told he needed an SMA Major Permit; and that€s why we€re here now. So, if I implied that that was something he decided in the last month, I€m sorry; but the record, I think, is quite clear that he applied to the Department over a year-and-a-half ago. SPRINGER:Thank you for your clarification, Mr. Mooers. Commissioners, any questions or comments? Commissioner Graham? GRAHAM:I appreciate the testimony from Ms. Kjos. I don€t mean to stay hung up on wastewater issues. But before we began this and reading my documentation now, I was not aware that it was possible to connect up to the Keauhou system. And 13 since Ms. Kjos has already put some effort into a, trying to flesh thatout, what it would cost and what would be involved, I think, in my mind, especially just mauka of that Kahaluu Beach Park, this is very important and certainly is very on point with an SMA Permit. So I would like to see this application be deferred until another meeting, at which point we can get some specifics put together about what would be necessary to bring this whole little neighborhood into compliance with a hookup to the Keauhou sewer system. And hopefully by that time, also, maybe some of these other issues which we were not aware of that Ms. Kjos brought forward and that don€t appear to be specific SMA issues, maybe we could have a little more background at that point, too, about how they could be dealt with. That€s my feelings. SPRINGER:Mr. Mooers, before your comments, I€d like to ask for the Planning Director€s response to Commissioner Graham€s proposal. YUEN:Well,wecangetwhateverinformationthePlanningCommission would like. And I€m sure that the specifics, whatever the specifics would be, as far as the amount, what you would get from the Department of Environmental Management, which handles wastewater, is, well, I don€t believe that they have any plans to extend the line into this area. I could be wrong on that, but I don€t believe that€s true. If they did, if the residents wanted it extended, they could form an Improvement District, the County would form the Improvement District; but they€d have to vote on it, they€d have to vote in favor of doing it. The cost, I€m quite sure, if the County did not extend the line in there, I€m quite sure that the cost would be prohibitive for any individual to do it to their own property, if that were a condition. SPRINGER:Mr. Graham? GRAHAM:Maybe I misheard Ms. Kjos or maybe one of us heard something different than the other. But the sense I got was that she had been aware of the benefits of connecting to the Keauhou system, not the County Kailua system. I think the Keauhou system is run by Bishop Estate and all, if I understand correctly, and that she felt that it was certainly financially feasible if the different people in that area got together to make that happen. I don€t know if we need to call her back to the stand. But I was feeling that that was an issue that perhaps could be resolved and I feel that there€s a lot of value to it if it can be. SPRINGER:Mr. Yuen, do you have any comments with regard to the Keauhou system as compared to the Kailua system? YUEN:No, I don€t have any information on the Keauhou system. SPRINGER:Mr. Mooers, you€ve heard this discussion. Do you have any comments that you might have on Mr. Graham€s proposal? MOOERS:Well, I€ve seen conditions placed on an application before that say that should the County extend a sewer line in the area, that the applicant shall connect. I 14 guess the problem I would have in this case is that you really have one neighbor,one person who€s before you, that you can condition to connect to the sewer, and there€s absolutely no obligation of any of the neighbors to join in that effort. And I daresay property owners that have a septic system that€s working are not going to want to join in. I think the County has seen this repeatedly in areas where they have extended sewer lines to and required people to connect, and there€s been a hue and cry from the residents saying, you know, No, we shouldn€t have to have this expenditure because we have a system that has been working for decades and why would we now be required to connect to something else.‚ So, I guess, the problem I would have is that you could condition one party and there€d be absolutely no obligation on anybody€s part to be a part of that. And I would be exceedingly surprised if one party could connect to the Keauhou system or any system for over 500 feet for $20,000. I mean, I can tell you, I€ve built projects and that is, that number is absurd. Your waterlines alone, I mean, you can figure out what it costs just to dig a trench and it€s not going to be $20,000. And that doesn€t put in a line, thatdoesn€tputintheforcemain,assumingit€sallgravityfeed.Imean,andit€snotall gravity feed from there to the Keauhou system cause you€ve got to go up the hill. So you€ve got to pump it; and so you€re talking about putting in a pump station. And that€s not going to get done for $20,000. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Mooers. Mr. Graham? GRAHAM:Could we have Ms. Kjos come back and just, to get a little bit more specifics. Cause I feel like if it is a kind of an open issue that needs more exploration, we should defer for that. SPRINGER:Ms. Kjos, can you return to the table, please. KJOS:The Keauhou system is that, the driveway is here, there€s the church ruins right next to the driveway. Right straight across Alii Drive is the yellow gate that goes down to the bath house. Next to, on the south side of that yellow gate, there is a rocked-in jut that goes back toward the ocean. There€s a big manhole there. That is the Keauhou system. There already is a pump system in effect. What they told me was we have to get there, go under the road to that manhole, I call it, I don€t know what it is, that€s how far you go. My property happens to be 200-foot, 180-foot to the edge of the road, and then the 20-foot easement, and then another 20-foot. So I€m a little over 200 -. And like I said to him, I€m more than, I mean, I€m more than able, willing, to go into with all the neighbors and put in, you know. I know it€s going to have to be a big trench. And the $20,000 estimate I got was in 1997, so, naturally, it has gone up. SPRINGER:Thank you, ma€am. Mr. Mooers, you€ve heard Commissioner Graham€s sentiments and opinions on this matter. Might there be any value to deferring action today and exploring discussions with Ms. Kjos, and perhaps the other neighbors, about cooperating in getting in on this line to the Keauhou system which now seems so close by? 15 MOOERS:Yeah, we can defer. I€m not quitesurewhat that€s going to accomplish. I don€t know that, you know, Mr. Holmes€ responsibility is to form an Improvement District withhisneighbors to connect this. And judging by the cost, if it is, in fact, 200 feet, then Ms. Kjos is estimating the cost at $100 a lineal foot, which, you know, you can€t even do a waterline in Konafor $100 a lineal foot. But, anyway, I€m not quite sure, Mr. Graham. I mean, I understand the value of having everybody on the island sewered as opposed to on septic or cesspool. I just don€t see that that€s a reasonable expectation for this applicant to form an Improvement District for this neighborhood to make that connection. And, I mean, if that€s something you want us to do, we can try to do it. But I€m afraid I€ll be back here in one meeting, or two meetings, or whenever and telling you that you don€t have the unanimity of the neighbors wanting to build a system that I€m sure they€re going to believe is an unnecessary expense for them, particularly if these are rental properties. SPRINGER:Mr.Graham,couldyouperhapsbequiteclearandspecificwhat you might be asking of Mr. Mooers to accomplish should we move forward for deferral? GRAHAM:Yeah, as far as your comment about having everybody on the island sewered, I mean, this is, in fact, 500 feet mauka of a major snorkeling attraction. I don€t think that falls in the same category as having everybody on the island sewered. As far as what I expect, what I would like to see to move forward on this would be that, specifically what the option is, and what the cost of the option is, and who would participate to hook this property up to the Keauhou system, and some contact with the neighbors to find what kind of cooperation you could get on sharing cost, including with Ms. Kjos. SPRINGER:Thank you, Mr. Graham. Mr. Mooers, does that sound like something that you might explore for month€s time. As you know, we have five members here. It€s the bare minimum to do business, and we would need unanimity on any motion. MOOERS:Right. I understand that. I€d be happy to talk with members of the Keauhou utility company to find out what it would cost to extend that service and contact the neighbors to see if they€d be willing to pay their fair share. GRAHAM:Thank you. SPRINGER:And, Mr. Graham, there€s that understanding that we may arrive back at the same place with the same number of participants, the Applicant may be standing alone again as well. Thank you. Is there any further discussions with the Applicant€s representative, and Ms. Kjos is also at the table with us, and the Planning Director? If not, may I have a motion? 16 GRAHAM:I would move that we bring this,we continue any action on this particular application until a further meeting subsequent to the Applicant€s representative being able to get back to us with information regarding wastewater? SPRINGER:In a future meeting, will that be the next Kona meeting? GRAHAM:Whatever meets his schedule for what he can effectively accomplish what I think would be helpful to the Commission. SPRINGER:Mr. Mooers, would you like to leave it open-ended or shall we ask the staff to schedule for the next Kona meeting? MOOERS:I would prefer to schedule it, because I don€t think it€s going to take me very long to get a cost estimate of -. First of all, what I would have to do is find outifthey€dbewillingtoallowustoconnectsinceit€saprivatesystem,andthensecond is to talk with contractors to get a per lineal foot cost for this, and then ask them on their design what would be required, what their capacity of the system is, if they do have a pump station, if it can comply, and how that connection would have to be made, and so determining the cost. And I can do a mailing to the surrounding property owners. GRAHAM:Well, then, I€m fine with the next meeting then if that works into your schedule. And I also would hope if possible the Planning Department can give us a little more specific response to the other concerns that came up today about which ones would be handled in the normal process of moving forward with this project, and not that it€s SMA dependent, just so that we better understand how the runoff, those kind of issues are -. But that€s not how they might be handled automatically, just in the process of moving forward with a three-unit project here, just so that we have that before us. So that€s not on you, Mr. Mooers, but just hopefully the Planning Department can give us a little more flesh out. Thank you. SPRINGER:Is there a second? SIRACUSA:Second. SPRINGER:It has been moved by Commissioner Graham and seconded by Commissioner Siracusa that this matter be continued until the next Kona meeting for the Hawaii County Planning Commission. Mr. Darrow, is that possible to put this on the next Kona agenda? DARROW:Yes. SPRINGER:Thank you. Is there any discussion on the motion before us? Seeing none, Jeff, could we have the roll call? DARROW:Thank you, Madam Chair. Commissioner Graham? 17 GRAHAM:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Siracusa? SIRACUSA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Alameda? ALAMEDA:Aye. DARROW:Commissioner Smith? SMITH:Aye. DARROW:AndMadamChair? SPRINGER:Yes. DARROW:Themotionpasses. SPRINGER:Thankyou,membersofthepublic,andtheApplicant,andthe Commissioner for this discussion. The discussion ended at 1:08 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomua, Secretary 18