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Home My WebLink About2023_11_21 GMAC Minutes Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawai’i Minutes – Final Draft Meeting Date: November 21, 2023 Time: 9:00 am to 11:00 pm Place: Zoom and In-Person 25 Aupuni Ctr., Ste. #1501, Hilo HI 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: District 1 - Robert Duerr, Present, in person District 2 – Vacant District 3 – Rhon Leomana Turalde, Present, in person District 4 – Brian Ley – Present, in person District 5 - Abraham Antonio, Present in person District 6 – Austin Griffey, Excused District 7 – Natalie Reynolds, Excused District 8 – Cortney Okumura – Present via Zoom District 9 – Justin Ackerman – Present via Zoom Quorum Established with 6 in attendance. STAFF: Sylvia Wan, Deputy Attorney, Corporation Counsel – in person Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist – via Zoom AA: OK. Let’s begin the November 21 Game Management Advisory Commission – right now it’s 9:19a, um, taking roll call. Actually I’d like to take a housekeeping from our Vice Chair, Leomana Turalde… LT: Aloha kakou – my name is Leomana, District – 3, Vice Chair – let’s take a – get everybody up to speed on the housekeeping – please make sure your cell phones are turned off or on stun – to all of us who are attending at first \[unclear\] remember to speak loudly into the microphone so that all your statements can be recorded and everyone online can hear you. Under the Sunshine Law GMAC may remove any person who willfully obstructs a meeting – or compromise the conduct of the actual meeting. All persons appearing before the GMAC Commission are reminded to conduct themselves in a courteous manner - for testimonies – those in person – if you would like to testify – please fill out a public statement registration form. For everyone on Zoom, if you’d like to testify on any agenda item please provide your name and identify which items you would like to testify on behalf of or questions. The public – for those on Zoom you may post all the questions in the Zoom Chat. For all of us remember that the Zoom Chat is not the actual recording statements of the meeting. For those in person you may write your questions on the public statement registration form right here on the end of the table – please know that your questions may be asked out loud or may be asked at the discretion of the chair – 1 for the people – the Zoom Chat is not recorded and not a part of the minutes so everyone remember the Zoom Chats. And… SW: No limitations on Zoom… LT: Yeah, the limitations of the Zoom Chat \[unclear\]. AA: Thank you, Leomana. Is there approval of minutes this month? SW: Chair roll call. AA: OK. Roll call. District – 1, Robert Duerr? RD: Aye. AA: District – 2, vacant. District – 3? LT: Ah, here… AA: District – 4, Brian Ley? BL: Aye. AA: District – 5, Abraham Antonio – here… District – 6, Austin Griffey – absent. District – 7, Natalie Reynolds – absent. District – 8, Cortney Okumura? CO: Present. AA: And District – 9, Justin Ackerman? JA: Present. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: AA: Right on. Moving on to – so it’s six, present so we make quorum for this meeting. Approval of minutes – minutes wasn’t finished so deferred to next month. 3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: None AA: Any statements from the public on the agenda items? Not seeing any – Commissioner Report by District. District – 1, Robert Duerr? 2 4. COMMISSIONER REPORT BY DISTRICT: RD: District – 1, Pepeekeo is becoming an issue with the closure of public access and the developer/owner Correa Realty is seemingly not allowing the access and the County’s in the process of looking to gain a 38 acre parcel under PONC the Public, Open Space – there may be some issues with that of being down, down +flow water of the old coal/ash from the power plant when it was doing coal – but the big question is – irrespective of the purchase of the property – does the developer need to developer/owner need to fulfill the Planning Department’s rules that when the development was first allowed – Pepeekeo \[unclear\] was first allowed public access to shoreline was allowed with designated areas, that’s pretty much it for District – 1. AA: Yeah, so they already have public access so how is he… RD: He’s, he’s been – evidently he’s fenced off a public access and forcing people to go through gates and, that seems to be an ongoing – it seems to be an issue that needs to be looked into, upcoming and then bring in both sides – the public access side that says that it’s being closed and that the developers and find out from the developer what the issue is. AA: Abraham, District – 5. So, do we need to check with Building or something or? What’s your plan? RD: Well, basically \[unclear\] this is a very complicated – this gets deep diving – it’s the TMKs and County enforcement of essentially public access – so, I think it needs a little bit more looking into in the upcoming year. AA: OK. Ah, District – 2, vacant. District – 3, Leomana? LT: Aloha, District – 3, Leomana Turalde, first in my District - down in Keaukaha – County installed a lot of these \[unclear\] bike racks at County parks – did you guys see ‘em? To me that tells me that there 30 x 30 Plan is bringing more tourists into Keaukaha – it’s supposed to be \[unclear\] the walkways are done – they should have \[unclear\] on shoreline fishing – all in Keaukaha. Most of the tourism infrastructure is set because in the back of Keaukaha they want to make a walking park \[unclear\] landing, for tourism-friendly areas and that affects the fishing area only the fishermen go to right now. Pass Richardson into the back is strictly for fishing, holoholo, collecting stuff and it’s not really – the tourists don’t really go back in that area but, ah, these \[unclear\] let me know that the plan is supposed to be going ahead for these areas in the next couple of month it’ll be affected – I believe that foot traffic on our shorelines, getting back to fish shorelines so I reached out to the woman who has to do with the sewer pumps the one to talk about the raw sewage that goes into the sea that affects all of our fishing – right off the break wall all into Pahuaa \[sp?\] from Puhi Bay and I’m still waiting \[unclear\] email from her but she said she’d love to come and do a presentation to the GMAC Commission just to talk about the new sewer pump that they wanna collaborate with Hawaiian Homes with it because Hawaiian Homes is the owner of the property and I guess – I know how much involvement the County has to do with the sewer plan. But she would like to come and do a presentation from after the next two months, going to pig count – hogs a big issue, maybe because it’s a low water count this year, or the military was training but the last two months it’s below in District – 1 – was a low pig count. Maybe they’re migrating up into the forest cause of the water in the river 3 being dry – but even at the intersections of Saddle Road and Mohouli where we usually see pigs – I don’t really see any of them – I went out to go count this past week, so the pigs on the upper side of District – 1, are low and then in the back of Keaukaha I went to hunters down in Keaukaha at \[unclear\] house – they told me the pig count in the back is low – they hunt almost every other day – the young boys – and even they said the pig count is low – so I don’t know if that has to do with military planes cause we had C7 \[unclear\] come in and then all the helicopters and the training maybe. They ran to Puna side out of my district. Another one was the lay net letter – I don’t know if you guys had letters, you guys have registered lay nets but I got mines last week in the mail. DOFAW sent out their new registration for lay nets – so just reminders – everybody’s a registered lay net owner, or if you guys have fishing in your district – everyone should have gotten lay net rules in the mail this past month, and it’s right at the top of my district but I just wanted to bring up Saddle Road – I was on Saddle Road on Sunday and if you guys drove Saddle Road just recently you guys could see there – I counted 70 carcasses but there’s about 70, \[unclear\] was on the road. Lalamilo got – this past month there’s been a high count of car accidents – dead animals – you can see ‘em still there – nobody’s recovering the bodies – moving them out of the road – I have to swerve around so I don’t know if you have people – the County pays for ‘em – maybe DLNR to go out and check that but, I just wanted to address the situation with the military training and the abundance of dead carcasses left in the middle of the road \[unclear\] my wife and my kids, and they looked at me and they’re like – all the little baby ones and so I was oh man that was too much for me as a parent and as someone who cares about our wild game, we’re killing hundreds of these animals, because we’re just not prepared for the influx of the migration so if we can address that would be cool, but other than that – that’s my updated for District – 3. AA: Thank you. Abraham, District – 5. DOFAW does not control lay nets that’s DAR. LT: Oh, DAR, DAR… Yeah, are they DOBOR, no… The DOBOR something about \[unclear\]. AA: And then District – 4. BL: District – 4, Brian Ley. I haven’t heard anything new on Pohoiki moving forward – last I heard is serious money disappearing and they haven’t found it yet so Pohoiki’s still on HOLD and I think all the pigs have migrated to Puna ‘cause I’m getting all sorts of calls and everything else cause the water or something but there’s \[unclear\] in Puna and, the drought situation needs to be addressed ‘cause I almost hit a sheep going bird hunting the other day, right at light ‘cause they’re eating, drinking the water out of the divets – there was moisture out there so, the DLNR needs to look into their thing on allowing waters to keep the animals off the road if we can get some water so they \[unclear\] down on the road being a hazard to everybody, so, that’s it for District - 4. AA: District – 5, nothing really to report besides, the trash up on, inside of the hunting areas not really too much we can do ‘cause not really coming from the hunters – it’s just \[unclear\] forest users just coming from the neighborhoods around the common areas. District – 6, absent. District – 7, absent. District – 8, Cortney? CO: Aloha, everyone. A couple of updates, both of these are regarding Kahaluu Bay, Robert pointed me to a new bill that’s going to be up with the County Council – it’s bill 93 which proposes an 4 ordinance to make previous available parking on the mauka side of Alii Drive fronting Kahaluu – each park area into a no-parking tow away zone between the hours of 8 pm and 5 am and there’s no provision to create or provide parking access for night fishermen, I just wanted to bring this to everyone’s attention. I wasn’t sure if there was any action that the group might want to take on this, or if even – we probably don’t have time to but I just wanted to let everyone know what’s going on. Additionally, there’s a new documentary film out about the bay – it’s called Keeper of the Bay and you can go to KeeperoftheBay.com and click on the link to the film and type in “reef” and you can watch the movie ahead of all of its previews it’s about – focuses on Cindi Punihaole who’s the person who’s been, grew up in the bay and been taking care of the bay and helping protect it. It’s a great, great show. I got to watch it the other night. I highly recommend it for everyone. And, I just wanted to say thanks to – I’ve got Jake Merkel joining us later for his presentation from the Kohala Center about the Eke Project and thanks to him for joining and sticking with us through the tech difficulties. Thanks, everyone. AA: Thanks, Cortney. Ah, District – 9, Justin Ackerman. JA: Yeah, aloha all. Many things happening right now – we’ve got – there was a meeting last week up in Waimea for the North Kawaihae Small Boat Harbor – they were doing an environmental assessment for increasing the break water on both sides to start rejuvenating that north harbor to make it usable and sustainable in heavy weather. So that’s on the way – there’s no issues with what the environmental assessment proposed, and that project should take six to eight months once they finally kick it off. The only other thing happening is if you guys saw the notice on DLNR’s page – the adaptive rule change happening – the meeting is on December 8. That affects a few of the areas on the Island, namely my favorite spot – The Slice up on Saddle Road – changing it from gun to archery – which I think is a great idea, so that’s happening so if th anybody’s got any opinion on that – that’ll be December 8 in Honolulu, of course, why would they do it here where the rule change is happening. Next I think I would like to blame bird season for all the increased sheep activity on Saddle Road ‘cause I haven’t been able to get up there and hunt as much as I like. I have been busy bird hunting though. That’s it for District 9. SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan – can I just ask a point of clarification for the rule change hearing. Where can people get information as to where that’s located just in case they are in Honolulu that day? JA: Well, it’s also gonna be on Zoom and that is on the DLNR website for notifications. SW: OK. Thank you. LT: Leomana, District – 3. Are, we, anyone, wanting to go to that meeting? Is anyone opposed to me going to that meeting representing GMAC? SW: OK, so Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan – so as a singular member of GMAC you can go to the meeting and attend the meeting as a board member. However, you wouldn’t be able to testify saying this is GMAC’s position, but you are more than welcome to gather information and, if you feel so disposed you can provide that information to GMAC as well at the next meeting. 5 LT: OK. SW: If there were, if you were going to be appointed as a speaker on behalf of GMAC then that would have to be something we need to \[unclear\]. LT: \[Unclear\] OK. Thank you. I just thought that I’d check on that. AA: Well you can testify as your own personal… LT: Yeah… SW: Yes, so nothing prohibits you from testifying or having comments in your own personage of Leomana – just not as a GMAC Commissioner. RD: A question to Corporation Counsel. SW: Yes. RD: I’m Robert Duerr, District – 1. Can a Commissioner in a positive at a meeting say that, for example, that I’m a Commissioner, however, I’m not speaking in a Commissioner capacity? SW: No, that kind of muddies the line if you are going to speak because that already attributes your speech to GMAC. So, it’s just best to not mention it at all. RD: Do you mind if I get a clarification on that from OIP? SW: For what exactly? RD: If being a Commissioner can be put in in a positive in an introduction during the meeting with the proviso that you’re not speaking as a Commissioner capacity. SW: That goes to – that does not go to a Sunshine Rule – that goes to a Board of Ethics and Code of Ethics. LT: Leomana, District – 3. How can I express my qualifications and my skills without, like how can I tell it – this is why I know without saying I’m a GMAC Commissioner. SW: So, I’m sure before you even became a part of this board you were active in various other groups outside of GMAC. You’re more than welcome to state any and all of those things if you want to express your qualifications – the problem is that you’re providing testimony one way or another if you mention the fact that you are a GMAC Commissioner it’s naturally going to be attributed back to a position of GMAC. So it’s best if it’s just \[unclear\]. The only instance in which you might want to designate that, yes, I’m a GMAC Commissioner but I am testifying in my personal capacity is if the place at which testifying or the place in which you are providing input – all of the people who are already there already know that you are a GMAC Commissioner – so then the clarification is necessary. But because you’d be going to Honolulu – the form in which you would be… 6 LT: So, there’s no way I can tell someone that I’m on a GMAC Commission. That’s just wrong. SW: You could as long as it’s not being attributed to… LT: \[Unclear\] SW: …. like a public testimony. There’s different avenues in which you can say, “Yes, I’m a GMAC Commissioner.” You can attend a meeting as a GMAC Commissioner as long as you’re no longer – you’re not espousing particular positions of GMAC – so the problem or the issue lies in the testimony. LT: So, I cannot claim the title – like l cannot say, “Aloha, my name is Leomana Turalde. I’m a professional hunter and also on the Game Commission. SW: Because already it’s going to be saying that you’re providing your testimony as a hunter and as a GMAC Commissioner, which is representing you. LT: OK. I guess I just cannot then ‘cause that’s… SW: You really should not. LT: OK. So, I can, but I shouldn’t, right, ‘cause cannot and should not… I’m just trying to clarify this ‘cause if we go up and give one speech someplace it’s really important for people to know that, hey, I’m so qualified that I got selected by the politicians – I didn’t select myself – I put myself… SW: Yeah, and so… LT: And so, it’s like I cannot even say… SW: So that would be using your position to gain an access benefit as an individual because you’d be gaining additional credibility as a GMAC Commissioner in that particular setting. LT: So, being a Commissioner is not supposed to get you any credibility? SW: It’s not supposed to benefit you additionally in any other way outside of what your personage would do, would do. LT: So, there’s no – so you cannot introduce yourself as a Commissioner, as a… SW: No, ‘cause that’s where it strays over the line of lobbying. Right? LT: Well, \[unclear\] advisory commission so we can advise… SW: You can advise and you have the Charter which outlines the ways in which you can advise, right? So that’s how you can advise, but advice, advice that you’re providing through the Charter is not the same as lobbying. LT: OK. 7 SW: And we’ve had this question and I’ve provided a memo and \[unclear\] so that’s within those perimeters. So, what I’m saying is that what you’re requesting kinda steps on a number of different rules – that kind of inter-lay and impact each other. So, what I’m telling you is – you shouldn’t do it ‘cause if you do it – you will be potentially violating this set of rules including the code of ethics. AA: OK. Leomana… LT: I’ll try to move on but it’s kinda like if I cannot do that I’m out of this Commission. If I cannot go to a meeting and say that a part, you know, introduction is like my name, where I come from and what qualifications I have. If I cannot say that I am a Commissioner on an advisory commission I don’t want to be on this Commission. That’s so not beneficial to the – to like, um, \[unclear\]. You know and I don’t think that’s illegal, I just think that kinda sucks if I cannot use this as a title ‘cause I, you know, I mean… SW: OK. So, Leomana if you want, we can talk more offline about what it is that you are thinking of doing… LT: Um-hum… SW: …. because you could theoretically present at a meeting, right, about GMAC business. But you can’t be representing your personal self.. LT: \[Unclear\] SW: …. opinions of GMAC. LT: Yes, but, no, I never said that \[unclear\] introduce myself… SW: No… AA: OK. OK. OK. You guys can have this conversation… LT: We’ll figure it out… It’s kind of corrupt. And I not in this thing to be corrupt, you know… AA: Thank you, Leomana. Thank you, Sylvia. Ah, presentation – Jake Merkel – a Watershed Field Supervisor, The Kohala Center presentation on Eke Project: Protecting and Sustaining Source Waters of Kohala. Hey, Jake, you on? 5. PRESENTATION: a. Jake Merkel, Kohala Watershed Field Supervisor, The Kohala Center, presenting on “’Eke Project: Protecting and Sustaining Source Waters of Kohala.” 8 JM: Hey, aloha everyone. LT: Aloha… JM: Can you guys all hear me? AA: Yeah. JM: \[Technical difficulties\] So, yeah, I just wanted to join in today to talk story about the Kohala Eke Project, this is up mauka of Kohala Mountain Road – it takes place on Queen Emma Land Company Property so it’s private land, but I figured it’d be good to bring to this gathering because it’s directly adjacent to public hunting area and adjacent to Parker Ranch land, this is just a subset of my slide show that I’ve presented at other Eke community talk story sessions in Waimea, so I just kept it really brief, I didn’t want to take up too much time today, but if there’s any questions I can try to answer them as fast as possible after these slides. There’s, only about 3 or 4 slides so they’ll be real brief. All right, so as you can see from the map here that I’ve put on the slide, everything in purple is Queen Emma Land Company, and then the watershed boundaries are marked in that kind of cyan color and the orange areas are all DLNR public hunting area, and then you can also make out some roads in black, the Eke Project area is highlighted in yellow – that’s the perimeter of the project site and the project – the main goals are to protect one of the highest quality leeward cloud forests of Kohala. There’s not a whole lot of native cloud forests left in Kohala because of all the impact from human and animal over the last couple hundred years so most of the leeward slope of Kohala has been deforested and there’s very little high quality forest left. So, the Eke Project is meant to remove a bunch of invasive species including Himalayan ginger, banana poka, and feral pigs. I just want to remind everyone that this is like probably some of the best forest remaining in Kohala and it’s where a lot of our water comes from. It goes down through our streams Keawewai Stream is just one of the streams that comes through the unit and starts in the unit. And it’s used by folks down slope including ranches and private landowners along the way as well as down into near Kailapa Hawaiian Homes community, which there’s been some talk about – in the past there’s been some talk about how do you better utilize that water if its cleaner. So it’s just a really amazing part of Kohala. There’s a couple other streams that come out of that area and we’ve been actually researching – I’m trying to find the historic names for those but they’re so small that either the names have been lost over time or we just haven’t found them in old maps or talking to Kupuna are knowledgeable of those streams, um, so we’ve been naming them Kawaihae 1, Kawaihae 2 – now – just as placeholder names, we’re going to be doing water quality monitoring throughout the project, prior to the fences being installed as well as after and after the ungulate removal and ginger removal. As you can see the Project goals are: protect the forest, remove the invasive species, monitor the change and secure that clean water source. Ah, this is just another map of the unit from a closer in perspective, as you can see there’s, you know, a fair chunk of forest remaining in Kohala and anything that’s on the southwest side of that north boundary – that’s all considered leeward slope, cause that northeast boundary in yellow there – that is almost directly on top of the ridge of Kohala, and I wanted to point out some of the landmarks that you can sometimes see from places like Kawaihae or Waikoloa – off to the upper left corner of the map – up in this area – that’s Pu’u ahia and that pu’u is somewhat visible from a bunch of different places on the west side of the Island. And the Project is named 9 after this pu’u. It’s kind of hard to make out in this aerial imagery but this is Pu’u Eke right here and then the summit, the actual summit of Kohala is right here and the summit’s name or one of the summit’s names is Kaumu o Kaleiho’ohie and there’s other names but this is the name that is most commonly found on maps both historic and modern. As I said before, this is a sub-set slide show and so this image of this map was meant to talk about our transit surveys and so within the unit there’s 4 transit survey features that we have that we’re planning use for monitoring purposes, we’ll be monitoring forest health through vegetation surveys both native vegetation and non-native, we’ll be monitoring forest bird populations and we’ll be monitoring ungulate signs and, let’s see – you can see to the stream off to the side – that’s Kilohana Stream – I just figured I’d keep that on this map because that’s another important water source – it’s not actually coming out of the Eke unit but there’s the thought, you know, any additional, I guess, what’s the best way to put this, any abundant forests in this area is supporting its other nearby forests – so by Eke being protected it’s going to secure native forests that provides greater health to the surrounding forest and so that in effect – that should affect surrounding streams as well. Yeah, I just wanted to leave – to give you some time for brief questions – this is my team from Kohala Center in Waimea as well as a couple of folks that work for Kohala Watershed Partnership and in the backgrounds, you can see \[unclear\], ohia lehua and Eke. Eke there is on the right, yeah, I just want to say mahalo to everyone taking a little bit of time to watch this brief slide show. Thank you. AA: Thanks, Jake. Any questions or comments from the Commissioners? BL: Brian Ley, District – 4. OK, did you guys have any – how many feral cats you got in that area? JM: Feral cats? BL: You got any there? Yeah, since the \[unclear\] might get to the screen to get down to the thing that seems like it would be a bigger issue than some pigs ‘cause we’ve got the feral cats and the rats pollute the waters where it’s way serious issues with the water… JM: So, I have no idea what the feral cat population is there. But it, I think for us feral cats and rats and mongoose – predators in general – aren’t the first priority because we’re losing metric tons of soil from the cloud forest through pig digging, foot traffic, sedimentation washing from the slopes. We’re actually losing the soil in that forest due to the pig impact. And so, right now I think the feral pigs is definitely the priority for the move out of that native forest. As a reminder, pigs were introduced, yeah, so – just along the lines - same along the lines of cats and rats and mongoose. But I think taking care of the largest animals first that are eroding the area and, also contributing to ohia scarring, rapid ohia death, um, vegetation destruction – I think that’s like the main priority is right now and the landowner on \[unclear\] property is very supportive of that action as well – they see those things happening as well. LT: E, aloha, Leomana, District – 3, thank you for your presentation. JM: Aloha. LT: Um, you know, I grew up on Mauna Kea so I never really hunted Kohala and I never go out there hunt ‘cause it’s kind of territorial with hunting – you know that – so I wanted to ask if there are 10 any available public spots that hunters might be able to go park and enter the forest or are you guys looking for that kind of help from local hunters and fishermen to help you out with maybe going inside and getting a lot of the pig population down to a manageable level? JM: Yeah, we’re definitely working with local hunters – that’s one of our top priorities, um, I don’t know if you’re aware of like folks like Uncle Lloyd Case or… LT: Um-hum… JM: ….ah, well, um, sorry I don’t know the other names \[unclear\] my head but we’re having meetings with like the two - two of the elder hunters in Waimea that kind of are in communication with most of the hunters in Kamuela in general so they’re helping us to make all the hunters aware of what’s going on up there. We’re trying really hard not to leave anyone out of the local hunting community – we want the elders that are hunting there to really help us spread the word and those hunters are also joining in our talk story sessions in Waimea at Tutu’s House, and they’re kind of giving us some guidance of like, you know, how to best involve the community in the hunting and even other practices as well like the native forest regeneration – native out-plantings, ah, the things that area gonna – will benefit the watershed, and we’ve been getting a lot of positive feedback. As far as access, there’s a list of hunters that are signed up on the Parker Ranch access and I think that they have to renew that every year – I’ve never been on that list – I hunt as well but I’ve never been on that list for Parker Ranch but I know that that’s one of their things is go through a process to sign up with them and I think there’s like a couple of safety briefings and then you’re allowed access through the ranch gate, after you attend all the, you know… LT: So, to get in and get access in. OK. Shoots. JM: Ah, no, I think there’s public access – I was just pointing out the – I guess the main access points through Parker Ranch. There’s a public access that you can drive all the way up to the forest line as well, um… LT: I’m from Big Island but I don’t want to just go hunt anywhere and, I kinda want to be courteous and if you guys got any instruction or any key places to go, then, I’d feel better if I can be instructed on your land so – if you got any instructions like that then you can present that to us and then I would love to come and hunt Kohala and stuff. And, I know… JM: Yeah, so pretty much the hunting areas there in Kohala that are open to the public like DLNR hunting land – there’s many, many areas of public hunting land in Kohala. I think you can access through the DLNR website. I don’t work for DLNR or Queen Emma Land Company, so, I’m actually working for a non-profit in Waimea – the Kohala Center – so I can’t say like…where people can hunt where, where people can hunt but you can access that on the DLNR website. Then also, like I said, Parker Ranch. It sounds like it’s pretty straight forward to sign up and, if you wanna be respectful to the local hunters I would just reach out to someone like Uncle Lloyd Case. He’s got plenty aloha. He really like invites his community to go along with them – he’s invited us up to come explore trails that he put in when he was a keiki and stuff so, yeah, I’d reach out to Uncle Lloyd, or one of the elders that hunt out in Waimea, and there’s other – 11 there’s many other access points in Kohala not just on Kohala Mountain Road, I just do a research there. LT: Right on, mahalo. JM: Yeah. Any other questions? RD: Yeah, Duerr, District – 1. How big is the parcel? JM: Ah, so, the fence is not complete, but it’s estimated to be around 650 acres, sorry, I’m getting mixed up with another private landowner unit – I think it’s gonna be closer to about 540 acres, sorry. RD: And then the next question is – how are you eliminating the Himalayan ginger? JM: So we’re got this ginger removal plan that we’ve been crafting for the past two years and it’s taking into account other ginger removal projects on the Island. So we’ve reached out to folks at the Big Island Invasive Species Committee, we’ve reached out to folks at Volcano National Park that have done a lot of ginger removal and we’re pretty much, just practicing the set of guidelines that follows really similar techniques to what has been going on already, but our main thing with clean water is trying to secure a clean water source and to me that also means using as little herbicide as possible, so, our goals are to try to eliminate the big patches of ginger using a very diluted solution of Escort herbicide, but when possible hand pull any juveniles that come up and we haven’t totally completed the ginger removal plan and the guidelines yet, but we’re getting pretty close with that – it should be done around March of next year for that. RD: Thank you. AA: Any other questions? Comments? Abraham, District – 5. It’s not just your organization but there’s a lot of even for DOFAW – you guys use the pigs as a main source of spreading rapid ohia death and everything – but it seems like you guys just finding the easiest path to take and get out the biggest problem. But let’s say you guys get all the pigs out from your guys’ property then what is your guys’ next move after that, right, so rapid ohia death and soil sedimentation – are you guys planning to keep public out, I mean, you’re on private property so technically you can, right? JM: Yeah, so Queen Emma Land Company is definitely private property and, yeah, I can’t speak for Queen Emma Land Company ‘cause I’m not one of their employees, but, I think that if we can work with community to remove the pigs and remove the ginger from forest\[unclear\] to the point where we can actually go in and do restoration of the plant, um, endemic native species and fill in the places that have been destructed, that would be along the lines of where we would be going and I guess speaking to rapid ohia death. I’ve been working in Kohala since about 2004 and, you know, well before ceratocystis came along and started wiping out our ohia trees and the areas that have been pig free – if you compare them to areas that they’ll have pigs – and you look at the ohia trees were in those protected areas they’re so much more abundant and healthy than the ones outside that are just getting their roots trampled by hooves all day, every day and no understory, no forest health with the layers of forest that are basically disappearing where you have a couple of big trees and then the lower forest stages are all – just 12 vanishing and out biodiversity is disappearing on the Island so it’s pretty sad to see it just let it happen. AA: Right, today’s pretty sad, but I’m pretty much in the forest like every weekend so I’ve been in healthy forests and I’ve been in forests, where, you know, fence one side, fence not the other side and just the under story – like lotta places the understory is choking out the new growth that’s coming out because there’s no maintenance in that, in that new forest that you guys are trying to plant, also, that nobody seems to be really talking about – all the uluhe fern come up – the shaded tree really chokes out the new seedlings that come up and stuff, yeah, so. MK: I think there’s different viewpoints. It’s all about perspective so when I think of forest health I think of what like the forest used to look like before any introductions of man over them. AA: Yeah, \[unclear\] when I wasn’t up back then. Right? JM: Yeah, so, if, but I’m thinking along the lines of what did the forest look like before the introduction of feral pigs and, I think that the term “choked out” to me that actually means like that’s what a healthy forest looks like where you have complete forest that’s hard to walk through – that’s probably what the forest used to look like before there was mammals trampling through it, so, a hunter’s perspective – if they come in and they say OK, well, the forest is choked out – that might be what a healthy forest used to look like but it’s all perspective and a personal opinion – my personal opinion was like the more native species the better and if it makes it hard to walk through when there’s so much native species that it’s hard to walk through, I mean, I don’t need to walk through it, right? I see the forest – it’s healthy – and it’s collecting a whole lot of rainfall and not muddying up our stream, I’ve been to parts of the State where the streams run clean and there’s absolutely this beautiful native forest mauka of the stream, so, you know, it would be amazing to one day be able to go to a stream and look and actually see the bottom and say, wow, I can see the bottom, maybe I can filter this and just drink it right now, so, I guess it’s always just personal perspective and opinion but, you know, I value a forest that is hard to walk through. I value uluhe fern. Uluhe fern is a native species – it’s not invasive, what scares me is when I see native forests that are getting converted to only things like kahili ginger underneath – that Himalayan ginger is just like completely choking out the whole understory where there’s nothing growing and then you have a couple large trees that are slowly dying off – they can’t regenerate because of the Himalayan ginger that’s coming up, so, like I said, it’s just a different perspective. AA: Yeah, we can go on and on. Yeah, different perspectives – so anyway, just, you know another part is like instead of doing – it seems like you guys pretty much doing like one 100% eradication but maybe you guys can do like one game plan inside of there, right, and let the hunters kinda get the ungulates down to a specific number that the land can be helpful and use the pigs for a helpful part of your guys restoration too, like, could be like Mauna Kea when had 50,000 over sheep and it’s like that’s not cool, right, I agree with that abundance of game animals in a specific area but there can be a sustainable number that it can be beneficial for the forest and for the people as well. Right? SW: \[Unclear\] question? 13 AA: It’s a comment. SW: OK. BL: Brian, District – 4. Back to the private thing – who’s funding all this? Since this is – on private property. Is this government money being used on private funds? JM: Ah, yeah, a big portion of the funding is coming from the Department of Health, it’s along the lines of cleaner water and providing, a cleaner water source for people as well as for the reefs, lots of folks on the west side have seen the reefs get covered with sediment every big rain event and, kill off our reef systems and our \[unclear\] fishing and diving resources. Kawaihae is pretty stagnant for many, many months after a big rainfall event. So, yeah, a lot of the funding is coming from the Department of Health. BL: OK. What does the private landowners get out of this deal? JM: The private landowner as far as Queen Emma – they get a healthier quality forest and a healthier community. AA: Thanks, Jake. And thanks for supporting the local hunting community out there and thanks for your presentation. JM: Thank you, Aloha. b. Joshua Pang-Ching and Ian Cole, East Hawai’i Wildlife Biologist, DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife: “Update on East Hawai'i DOFAW Projects.” AA: Moving on to presentation B – Joshua Pang-Ching and Ian Cole, East Hawaii Wildlife Biologists, DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife. Update on East Hawaii DOFAW Projects. JPC: E, aloha and good morning everyone. My name is Joshua Pang-Ching, I’m from the Division of Forestry and Wildlife in Hilo, East Hawaii Wildlife program. I’m here to present some updates from our program. I’ll start off with – since we’re in the thick of game bird season \[unclear\] weekends in. Game bird season goes from the first Saturday in November to the last Sunday in January – the general game bird season, um, been hearing from hunters and Kapapala, you know, they’re having a big success but that’s usually pretty common in the beginning of the season – tend to see that but it normally picks up, during as the season progresses \[unclear\]. AA: Abraham, District – 5. Can you just give a brief update on the process to go into Kapapala \[unclear\]? JPC: Yes… AA: ‘Cause I had a question come up \[unclear\]. 14 JPC: So Kapapala Ranch as you know is a cooperative game management area, it’s a working ranch and they partner with us on, hunting. Hunting is in the ranch is only game bird hunting is allowed – but the ranch also manages access through the ranch to get to the forest reserve above, and so the last we had – provided an update on changes to access – I guess you have/had some questions. So, if you’re accessing the forest reserve, you go through an online system with the ranch, it’s on the ranch’s website, the previous system you would call do paper registration you call but now it’s all online register. There’s good instructions online so I’ll summarize it but you go online, you register, you get approved, you submit a request when you want to go on a certain date – the night before, I believe, you get a text – in the morning of – basically you’ll get a text with the combo for the day that you want to go on – the combo is only good for that day. For game bird season – which we’re in right now - you have to access the ranch – you either show – the main way you show up at the gate – we man a check station so we open the gate at 6:00 am and close it at 6:00 pm. Hunters can come in – they hunt – they go out – the gate’s open. If we – if no one is manning the station – whether it’s us or the ranch, there’s a number to call and then we give you the combo for that day and that gets you in.. \[Unclear\] check in and access for game bird hunting in the ranch is only through \[unclear\] check station. Ainapo Road, Ainapo gate. Sorry, Ainapo gate and they have to check in at the check station. AA: So, for clarification, again, Abraham, District – 5. So you go on the website for mammal hunting… JPC: For mammal hunting in the forest is, yes, you go on the website. AA: And for bird hunting you just show up at the gate in the morning at 6:00a? JPC: Yeah, bird hunting the gate. AA: Yeah. JPC: Yeah, bird hunting the gate – it won’t open till 6:00a. We close at 6:00 pm. If no one’s there you can call and it’ll – usually me, will answer the phone and then I give the combination at 6:00a. AA: And then the website is Kapapala Ranch.com? JPC: I believe so, yeah, and then there’s a part on top that says forestry access – it’s pretty much right at the front – that’s a lot of \[unclear\] besides ranch information \[unclear\]. It’s pretty easy for people without Internet and Smart Phones it’s \[unclear\] not too difficult. IC: That’s pretty much, unless \[unclear\] guys get any questions \[unclear\]. JPC: Yeah, yeah… Yeah, and, um, any – that would be it. The ranch puts on their online system so \[unclear\] we work with them to try and figure out some issues. AA: Can we just call the ranch itself, like the ones that want to access the… JPC: I don’t know. I can’t speak for the ranch on that but I’m pretty sure they’ve moved towards this system so that they wouldn’t have to get calls but there is a number on their website to call in case of any issues. 15 AA: OK. Thanks. JPC: Yeah. Game bird season, \[unclear\] Mauna Kea is having good success for Mondays from what I’ve \[unclear\] people I’ve talked to. On the game bird side also, we have our game bird breeding project which we’re still in. We have about 75 ring necked pheasants, a dozen or so blue pheasants, 2 dozen chukars, and then that’s – those are birds that we’re raising to release in public hunting areas, we also are partnering with a private group that they have birds that they’re raising for us to release into public hunting areas so about 200 or so birds between a mixture of pheasants and chukars that we’ll release in public hunting areas. They probably won’t be ready to release during this season so we’ll probably release them – this is mostly just to restock hunting areas, restock breeding population which is mostly why we’re probably gonna release them outside of season so that they don’t get shot and we can let them propagate. After our West Hawaii program – they just released yesterday 180 chukars on the upper Mauna Kea \[unclear\] area and they partner with Kohala High School Agriculture program. Our program we partner with Keaau High School Agriculture program to rear and release birds \[unclear\] school kids. Ah, we’re ramping up our program for next year – we built a new flight pen up on Mauna Kea at the behind Gilbert Kahele Recreation Area on our state parcel, we’re planning to keep birds next year to hopefully get eggs and incubate and hatch more eggs then we can be more self-sustaining, bird breeding program within the state so we don’t have to bring in chicks from the mainland which can be difficult, the chicks – it’s hard on them flight trying to be more sustainable and it’ll be – it will probably be in the long \[unclear\] for us to \[unclear\] chicks on our own \[unclear\]. Little bit more input but a self-sustaining program so… Um, other news for Kapapala – not much movement on the land – the transfer as, ah, you guys may know the ranch is being – the ranch leases are being transferred from DLNR to Department of Ag – that was approved I believe in August meeting – the next steps would be surveying the boundary to help with the eventual executive order, and then we’d work with the ranch \[unclear\] cattle and stuff in the forest reserve, um, Kapapala is ongoing habitat management for game birds, in the ranch heating up to game bird season, road maintenance will make it easier for the hunters to get through cause there’s a lot of \[unclear\] choke out a lot of roads so we’ve been doing a lot of road maintenance leading up to game bird season. Um, \[unclear\] statewide all the different branches within DOFAW we’re going through a statewide rules changes for mammal rules, bird rules and we’re also trying to get game management area rules written out, a lot of the rule changes are – a big portion of them are all just word smithing to make the rules easier to understand, if we have any difficulty understanding them then the public can also – it can be difficult for them so they’ve – it’s a lot of cleaning up – cleaning house, trying to write rules to help hunters gaining access to areas – being efficient – and then also fire so that our enforcement people are more efficient in enforcing rules but making it easier for everyone to understand \[unclear\] so, that’s that for rules. We also wanted to talk a little bit about some potential fence projects, specifically ones that will affect this group which are \[unclear\] fences that aren’t really being implemented yet but they’re being talked about within the state, state system, two of which are Piha at buffer zone. Upper Piha, and south side of buffer zone going up on the left between upper Army, upper Army and south boundary road, it’s an area of public hunting – the public hunting area but it’s being sought to be fenced because it’s – right now it’s fenced on 3 sides and we’ll just take one more fence so, it’s a strategic fence I know that GMAC – my suggestion – I know that GMAC will not be in support – a bit or collectively wouldn’t be in support of it – so it would be to write and we talked about writing letters – that would be my suggestion to voice GMAC’s position or anyone’s opinion would be to write a letter to write 16 administration about those concerns. That’s it for that, um, 1020 is as mentioned by Mr. Ackerman – there’s some 1020 rule changes, reminder that 1020 is the state’s adaptive rule management process, ah, there’s a bunch that are going to the Board in December, a lot of which affect bag limits in areas such as Mauna Kea, Hilo, Forest Reserve Puuanahulu, increasing bag limits, increasing hunt days for areas such as Puuanahulu, instead of Saturday, Sunday, Mondays – they want include Fridays – there’s also “the Slice” as was mentioned, which is the area across of the Gilbert Kahele Recreational Area – that area would move from firearms to archery only for safety reasons and it was discussed that topic at a previous meeting. Other rules – Hilo watershed, um, you know, the \[unclear\] areas such as Piha and Laupahoehoe would be included for spring turkey – rules such like that so, then go to the Board for final approval and then rules would be effective for 2 years after approval so… I believe the meeting is broadcasted on You Tube but there’s also you can watch \[unclear\] You Tube but \[unclear\], ah, video route also comments and stuff. Other news – two new check stations – we installed two check stations in Kau – on Mountain House and Waterfall Road for hunters to check in, ah, they’re two popular areas for Kau hunters. Last thing I had notes on was our – we have a Manuka mouflon project that we kind of work on when we can and we had a bunch of cameras got stolen recently out there, it’s a project that we’re kind of monitoring – the population of mouflon to hopefully try and catch and relocate them out of the natural area reserve so we’re trying to keep the gas on that project so we – that’s about all I had written down. Anybody has any questions? AA: Right on. Thanks, Josh. JPC: Yeah, you’re welcome. SW: Ah, I just – Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan – so you were talking about the DLNR rule changes. Are you aware – did Kanalu Sproat come and present for GMAC on a number of those? AA: Yeah. SW: OK. AA: Yeah. SW: Just making sure. AA: But then Kanalu didn’t talk about the Hilo watershed side and Piha spring turkey at Laupahoehoe Forest cause that’s not within Kanalu’s district. SW: OK. AA: But because he mostly talked about “the Slice” and some of the other areas. SW: The archery, – the firearms/archery? AA: Yeah. That one he got it and some of the other west side ones from Josh just brought up, you know, the ones that \[unclear\] east side. SW: OK. 17 JPC: As well as some on the west side. They’re all kind of going in \[unclear\] package. AA: Abraham, District – 5. So \[unclear\] that’s awesome you guys putting the bird – building up our bird population. I know GMAC did kinda pushing DOFAW for years, even since I first started and we also hearing this today that’s great news with us pushing you guys well maybe it did something… JPC: Yeah… AA: ….or maybe it didn’t but who knows, I going take ‘em as a win. JPC: Yeah. AA: \[Unclear\] for GMAC. ?: That you had a hand in it. AA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know we’ve been – Ian Cole right on. Is he still on da kine? ?: \[Unclear\] AA: He’s gone… JPC: I’ll pass the message on… AA: Yeah. ?: Ian Cole’s on… AA: For District – 5, there’s still areas that – and even in – District 5 and District 4 – there still areas that need to be addressed to create access for hunters. JPC: You might – remind me of the boundaries… AA: District – 5 is like oh from Panaewa up to Volcano – upper Puna. District – 4 is all lower Puna, just last weekend I was down in lower Puna like by the MacKenzie \[unclear\] check in station and \[unclear\] but there’s no real safe place to park especially, no more too much people presence down there \[unclear\]. Kind of sketchy if you’re leaving vehicle just parked on the side of the road somebody would break into ‘em then they \[unclear\] or maybe worse off and your vehicle is just like completely gone and \[unclear\] camos and game too, right, \[unclear\] some place on \[unclear\] you still can get some kind of safe access parking somehow. Upper Puna still same thing, you know, there’s – up by the transfer station I had the discussion with Ian Cole, ah, 25 Mile Marker, you guys get that – keep that road right there but there’s a lot metal trash on the side of the road and I’m like where somebody going be reversing or driving that road and then pop tire and deal with that along with… ?: Puna transfer station… 18 AA: Volcano transfer station. ?: Volcano transfer station. AA: Right above the – and even just access like better, safer access. I’ve been talking with you guys about that for quite some time and I only get one more meeting, so I decided to try use what no power have on this Commission since I’ve been talking as far as access – like we was talking about clearing roads and stuff like that in the Kapapala and I know Brian talking about upper Mauna Kea, which is good – that’s all \[unclear\] prior to bird season but up in District – 5 in the Kulani Forest Reserve – up Puu Maka’ala and stuff get tree planting road \[unclear\]. You know, couple years back you guys came in you guys did a good job cleaning, you know, opening up the roads and had some flak from of the other hunters like, well, you guys opening up road – we’re getting everybody gonna go – but technically not that much more presence that actually went into the hunting areas in my opinion – so if we can get some kind of system like that up and going again – come back in and \[unclear\] one maintenance thing every couple years or something \[unclear\]. JPC: We’re probably due for one again… AA: Yeah. JPC: ….with the machine… AA: Yeah, yeah, with the brush \[unclear\] again. That would be awesome, um, as far as the relocation of the sheep like were you guys planning on relocating – has there been any talks yet? Cause it’s like – it’s a whole process to grab an animal from one hunting area or from just any area and relocating ‘em to another area because just the whole process. JPC: Yeah, we have some \[unclear\], we have no plans to, I believe, to release any animals \[unclear\] the game management areas specifically on the west side because it’s a GMA we can so if we still kind of in a discussion part – right now we’re still, you know, trapping the mouflon, it’s a tough landscape out there in Manuka… AA: Yeah… JPC: You know, hunters I talk to who that have gone – I mean on foot cause it’s all a’a \[unclear\] so and it’s mouflons – mouflon \[unclear\] sheep are a whole different animal from feral sheep… AA: Yeah… JPC: They are super smart – you can’t habituate ‘em so the methods part is where we’re still working on – the where is we have some ideas on where, it’s, um, based on \[unclear\]. Where makes sense, you know, we need to, you know, even though we couldn’t in portions of South Kona, but nobody can find the sheep in South Kona \[unclear\] and release in some place like that so – some place that makes more sense – where it’s legal and where \[unclear\]. AA: So west side that’s where you’re talking about it – Puuanahulu and Puuwaawaa area… 19 JPC: Yeah, yeah… AA: But there’s still a lot of fencing and eradication going on up in that area \[unclear\]. JPC: In, outside of the GMAs, yeah, portions \[unclear\]. AA: How’s the gate working out - out in Kohala and that whole hunting issue that came up couple years ago? JPC: The, um, the… AA: By the… JPC: The dairy? AA: The dairy road, yeah. JPC: Ah, last I heard it was OK, I mean, there’s like you brought up earlier trash and stuff – I think there was a car there recently that DOCARE had to remove, some abandoned vehicle, that’s usually always an issue with those kind of \[unclear\] back road access points but so far, I mean, we haven’t had any significant calls on people getting – either hunters or members of the public getting hard time cause hikers also use that trail so it’s multi-recreation zone – we haven’t gotten any calls that I’ve known… AA: Well, just basically I’m just… JPC: \[Unclear\] AA: Yeah, just hunter access, if you guys still getting complaints for up in that area. JPC: Not being able to get… AA: Yeah… Just seeing how \[unclear\]. JPC: ….through the gate. AA: \[Unclear\] the problem or \[unclear\] fixed the problem. Is the gate still kinda being open and closed certain times? JPC: I think so. I can check back on it. I feel like there was – someone who called recently \[unclear\] check the gate. I can follow up on that. AA: Ah, Ian Cole, you get your hand up? JPC: Follow up, he might know. 20 IC: Just got to remind all the districts to remind your constituents in your districts to use the check stations We got four or five new ones in Kau and very few people using ‘em and I can’t account for people that don’t sign in. You know, I know it’s part of the – part of the culture but I can’t be like, oh, this gets a lot of use ‘cause I have no record of anyone using the area but I know they’re up there so, just kind of my standard reminder for all districts talking to their different various folks. JPC: Yeah, I’ll echo what Ian just said when it comes to like what we talked about earlier – buffers along the Piha when there’s people. The Administration who ask us – we get, ah, it’s the guys who are on the ground managing, working with the hunting communities – it’s not the check stations. They ask us like, oh, do a lot of people use this area? And all we have – we know that guys use ‘em ‘cause we see them there but all we really have to show them is numbers from check stations or, there’s other stations now that people use but, ah, if there’s any suggestions as Ian would say that I’ll give any hunters that is to check in and be a count, not counted but present \[unclear\]. ?: Present. JPC: Yeah. RD: Duerr, District 1. Did you ever consider using a game camera? JPC: Um… We have in some areas but like I mentioned that Manuka – the biggest issue we have is \[unclear\] the cameras, that is, you know, they steal ‘em and if we put ‘em then they shoot ‘em, you know, they don’t like to be watched. Not that we’re watching ‘em but even just like wildlife projects… LT: Yeah, I know those guys. JPC: I get it, but… AA: OK. Last one for me. The Buffer Zone fence project, just letting the Commission know that’s the pretty much what I’ve been talking about the last couple meetings in my district report just scope on it a little bit here and there, I would like to ask the Commission if we could draft – have a motion to draft up letter to be not in support of fencing off that area – like Josh said it is – it’s already a 3 formed fence area – it’s basically a block, it’s a block minus one side being open – it’s boundary to the Natural Area Reserve Area, you know, the – pretty much a guesstimate of how much acreage is fenced off like what’s left. Ian, do you know kind of guesstimate like what the area coverage is there that’s not fenced – completely fenced. IC: It might be a thousand acres. AA: Yeah, so, so about 1,000 acres, it’s two based, it’s like one big square – you have these two… IC: Missing one side… AA: Yeah, missing the front side, the face side, um, the road kind of just – if there’s two roads looks like, actually looks like an “H” go off the bottom so one you walk all, you can walk straight to the 21 back of the forest till you hit the fence line in the back and then it loops around and it comes back up to S2, but it’s a very simple hunting area – just basically walk on the road if you wanna transgress, you know, into the forest you can cut in any time - but it’s good for like, ah, the kupuna and even if you have young kids that’s a good place. I took my kids there many years and, more sites outside. I’ve been hunting up there for many, many, many years and that area has provided for my family and other people all this time, so, Morris came in and, they fenced off their boundary and I don’t think, I don’t feel that they should take off small little section because for one it’s just so easy for everybody that wants to use that area and it’s just such a good resource up there and it’s a public hunting area, right? So, why are you going, why are they gonna keep on taking out public hunting areas when they already took more than enough and they still want to take more when there’s other hunting areas that is more inaccessible like way up where nobody can reach in a bit, like this particular area – you just park right there and you’re already, you know, you get one good chance of catching something already in like the first five minutes which happened many times so at this time we’ll let – we’ll have a motion to draft up a letter to not support the fencing up the south side boundary. SW: So, just to clarify, what you’re seeking is a motion to oppose the fencing that’s up… RD: Chair, just a housekeeping or a, you know, suggestion. Do we finish with Joshua Pang’s business…? Get him off the agenda and then we can address your issues? AA: OK. SW: So, I didn’t want to stop your soliloquy but, which is just along what you were saying, I do agree with Mr. Duerr in that we should probably finish the question session first for Mr. Pang and Mr. Cole and then we can move on to a possible motion. AA: OK. Are there any more questions for Mr. Pang and Mr. Cole from any other Commissioner? BL: Brian Ley, District – 4. I appreciate it being in the hot seat, I know it’s \[unclear\] in front of this, ah, you know, the exact opposite of Abraham, the fact that we have raise birds is a sign of failure on the DLNR Department, why aren’t we working on habitat, this is, this is, this is what we were talking about. We passed the law in the state constitution – these game animals have rights – they are entitled to quality habitat, and the fact that we have to supply animals let’s us know that their quality habitat is wrong and I know the survival rate for release captivity birds is extremely low, we’re basically just feeding cats and mongooses and stuff like that and, you guys have opened the door, you guys have gone in there on Mauna Kea, you’ve mowed things that these areas could be turned into food plots, we’re going in there, you guys are clearing out along the roads – we could go just in there so we’ve got a higher survival rate on the birds, like you think, just bandaids is just throwing the birds out there and say look at what a good job we’re doing instead of saying – ‘cause I’ve been out there years ago, when I go up there and, \[unclear\] two-mile stretch, there’s more birds then we can shoot and now I go to that same 2- mile stretch and I’m lucky if I see \[unclear\], we have an issue with quality habitat and stuff and I know, we’ve got, you know, the native species and blah, blah, blah and, it’s the same thing, you know, release the mouflon in Mauna Kea – get the grass down – it’ll improve the bird habitat. Keep the fire down, protect the things, put water is where the animals can access it, half the problem is like I said I almost hit a sheep coming through PTA going bird hunting cause it was right at daylight and there was water on the road and there were like five of ‘em and one was 22 trying to run across, that’s – that’s the problem – it’s not that we have too many sheep it’s that these animals have been fenced in and restricted – they no longer have access to habitat and food and this is why we’re having problems is, is along the side of the roads is where the moisture is and we have quality habitat and this is where we find the animals, I mean, it’s basic stuff. And like I said, what are we gonna do about improving the habitat for these animals so they’re not – so we have quality animals for future generations and we have state laws that saying these things are supposed to be supplied to these animals. Fountain grass is not quality habitat. JPC: Yeah, you know, from my \[unclear\] know of the issues that we have as an agency with Mauna Kea specifically \[unclear\] core border in which sheep and everything, ah, with that aside – on the birds side, we’re talking about, you know, I mentioned earlier about, putting together, you know, the mowing contract, trying to get habitat, the grass down in select areas, we can’t mow and there’s trees and stuff so looking at select plots that you said, to improve habitat that kind of supplement, the landscape and provide better habitat – where feasible and where applicable we can do, and, trying to think of these like hybrid, approaches where here we plant native plants that these game birds eat that benefit them benefits the other side of the coin – it’s where habitat improvement part and things like kiawe or \[unclear\] plants, seed plants, stuff like that, and then, as much as, releasing birds, ah, has its own issue, I mean, it’s how game birds got everywhere, I mean, you look at the numbers that we did release – thousands of birds, and it’s at a time where maybe the habitat was better, maybe \[unclear\] such bad drought episodes as we have now are bad, thick grass and stuff fire weed – trying to find a hybrid solution is kinda where my mind goes, um, you know, one that needs both sides, so, you know, there’s no smoking gun but, um, try what we can. LT: Leomana, District – 3. I just had a couple of comments on that I’m not into bird hunting \[unclear\] really care \[unclear\] birds but I heard you mention Kohala High School – one of my good friends I don’t know if that’s the teacher out there still yet but Mr. Snelling. He’s \[unclear\] I just wanted to give it some attention ‘cause I didn’t – he’s been my friend for fifteen years and I’ve seen him out bird hunting every season and, you know, the keiki’s the future so if I can get more attention to him or like you said Keaau High School – I am a Keaau alumni so these schools are for me it’s like oh, if Mr. Snelling can raise the bird and teach the kids out there is that the solution to this issue where the kids can actually manage their whole area and that could be a school project, and I see it going on right now and I just wanted to say mahalo. JPC: Yeah, yeah. LT: You guys \[unclear\] attention and funding to the school. JPC: Yeah, sure, yeah, we deal, yeah, Ian Snelling, he’s the teacher out in Kohala High – he’s the Ag teacher at - they have like a good Ag at that thing, Clarence Moniz is the teacher that we work with Keaau. LT: Oh, Moniz? Yeah, OK. JPC: Yeah. An awesome guy as well. LT: Amazing hunters, yeah? 23 JPC: Yeah, yeah, so they’re all hunters – outdoor enthusiasts and they have Ag programs, great Ag \[unclear\] programs – they travel to all these different conferences and competitions and stuff so they, yeah, they – we partner with them, that’s – gets us outreach – gets the kids outside, it’s a lot of what with hunting is hunting recruitment, right, getting these kids interested in, you know, hunting, resources and that type of management that it takes and took to get to where we are and \[unclear\]. LT: Yeah. Right on. And I just wanted to continue those programs and give them the support ‘cause that’s – that thing’s like our solution to all of our problems with kids and the teachers. JPC: Yeah. RD: Ah, Duerr, District – 1, for Mr. Cole or yourself. Do we have an oversight of how many miles of fence that’s been placed? Do you keep an inventory of that? JPC: Ah, I imagine there is, I mean, having some sort of \[unclear\] spatial mapping source or someone that has that. RD: Is there? I mean, because it’s billions of dollars and it needs repair so you would think – how would we find that? JPC: I don’t know specifically, on the exact like whole number, I mean, maybe each program you could reach out to or probably somebody in the administration who is in charge of putting together these… RD: Would that be Dawn Chang… JPC: Very possibly, maybe, but the nitty gritty of numbers, I mean, she would have to, she probably herself would have to… RD: I mean, ‘cause we also, ‘cause another question for \[unclear\] how were these expenses being paid for and do any hunting funds – trust funds – either are paid for or help pay for? JPC: I would say probably not a lot for like hunting – something like money that’s generated from tags and hunting licenses – that really doesn’t go into – money doesn’t go into fencing. Construction – that stays kind of in its own, bank, pocket of funding, um, usually funding for fences comes from CIP cause its infrastructure projects so capital improvement projects. RD: OK. Great. Thank you. AA: Abraham, District 5 - maybe he needs to check in with maybe NARS – somebody from NARS – who does the majority of the fencing? JPC: Mostly NARS – you could reach out \[unclear\] somebody from that upper, upper level, um, you might ask some numbers. RD: Thank you. 24 JPC: Yeah, you’re welcome. AA: Any other questions or comments? LT: No, mahalo. JPC: Yeah, yeah. ACTION ITEM: RD: I’d like to make a motion, essentially, I’ll just throw it out there, maybe we need to pad – essentially dealing with the fencing on the buffer zone and where access is easy there for hunters and families and kupunas that we not fence that area. SW: Ah… OK, so you wanna make a motion dealing… I need \[unclear\]. AA: To oppose the fence… SW: So, you want a motion for GMAC to draw up the letter? Yes? ‘Cause right now we’re missing half of it, um… RD: That’s my motion – we have to second it – we can fill it out – we can fill out what the motion is in discussion. SW: No, ‘cause I don’t even have an action right now. All I have is the preposition. RD: I’m putting out – I’d like to make a motion that we flush out a letter in opposition to the buffer fence. LT: Leomana, District – 3, I’d like to second that motion. AA: This time will be to discussion. Any discussion on your guys opinion of what should be drafted on this letter. BL: This is Brian, District - 4. OK, we’re, since, can we go ahead and throw in the proposed fencing along PTA that they were talking about to keep the goats off the road? AA: Um… BL: ‘Cause they were talking about putting fencing to keep the goats and the sheep off PTA and he was also saying that the other game areas that we were talking about put some extra fencing up – if we can just throw in a unilateral and end up with the fencing. AA: Um, I… It wasn’t on the agenda and there wasn’t any discussion on it at this time so… BL: They were talking about adding the fences discussion on the project. 25 AA: No, he’s talking about Piha – where we can draft that into a different letter, right? So, let’s finish off this one and then we can make a motion for the Piha for the one you discussing ‘cause the one where what you’re discussing that wasn’t on the agenda today and… BL: OK. LT: Yeah, Leomana, District – 3. Um, my opinions about this is that easy access for kids, for starting people who just get into hunting or hiking or any outdoors activity – I take my kids hiking and their friends who don’t go out avidly, they need a someplace safe to park the cars not too far, right, a lot of people don’t really run or hike so when you start off in hunting, hiking and gathering or any outdoor activity, it’s always safe to have these kind of areas that we’re talking about right now so, these are easy access for kupunas, for families, and for people who are just starting out, and like, for me I didn’t ask for it – I don’t go to these areas – I save this for the families ‘cause I like to go out and go like you go so it’s important for me to keep these areas open ‘cause more people in my areas makes a dangerous situation for all of us so, I support the opposition of this thing. ?: Fencing \[unclear\]. SW: Can I get clarity on what fencing this letter is opposing specially? AA: Buffer zone, south boundary. RD: Duerr, District – 1. Abraham, where is this? AA: This is, ah, pretty much all the way up on the top of Stainback just past, or right below that cattle guard just past the Kulani, um, Kulani Correctional Facility, um, main gate. And if you go far up like for me to complete – complete walk around that thing the fastest I’ve done it is like in an hour but that’s usually like a four-hour hunt. Just depends like where you catch one animal or something then your time varies. It’s a very simple, easy hunt that I took my kids out when they were five years old, you know, so, that’s how my boys were there, up there, in that forest reserve, in that hunting area. RD: Abraham, Duerr, District – 1, again. So fencing means eradication? AA: Fencing means eradication, yes. RD: I think we need to come down hard on this. AA: Thanks. SW: So, the purpose of the fencing, is eradication? AA: Yeah. Eradication and \[unclear\] to protect the forest what they say… ?: And to protect our watershed \[unclear\]. SW: I’m just clarifying… 26 RD: Duerr, District – 1. I think not only do we need the letter drafted but we need to direct the letter. AA: Direct it to Emma Yuen, Steve Bergfeld, and we can also… SW: Dawn Ching… RD: ….Dave Smith. AA: Yeah. SW: OK. One second, Emma Yuen, Steven who? AA: Bergfeld… SW: Dave Smith, Dawn Chang, and then can I get the titles for these people? AA: Dawn Chang is the head of DLNR, Dave Smith is… RD: Head of DOFAW… AA: Yeah, DOFAW… Emma Yuen is head of NARS, Natural Area Reserve and Steve Bergfeld is a local head branch manager for… RD: District DOFAW, District Hawaii County DOFAW… BL: Hawaii Island DOFAW… AA: Yeah… SW: I’m sorry, Steven Bergfeld is the manager of what? AA: He’s the branch manager for… RD: Yeah, DOFAW District Manager, Hawaii Island District Manager. SW: So same letter but drafted to these four individuals or sub-departments. OK. AA: Um… Make a roll call vote? SW: I’m sorry, we still don’t have the total – we have one reason in your letter. You have to – right now you have opposition to DLNR fencing within the buffer zone of the south boundary, Stainback to Kulani Correctional Facility and right now the reason that you are opposing it is to allow access for kupuna and families. RD: Chair, District – 1, what I propose is because is that we draft this, and we put it on the agenda for next month… AA: Yeah. 27 RD: ….a completed letter listing the details and action. SW: Well, OK, but right now GMAC should be talking about what is the content of the letter. AA: Protecting it as a hunting area. SW: Thank you, for that – you needed to say it. AA: OK. Roll call vote, one, Robert Duerr? RD: Aye. AA: Two vacant, ah, three? LT: Aye, Leomana. AA: Four, Brian Ley? BL: Aye. AA: Five, Abraham, aye. Six is absent. Seven is absent, eight – Cortney Okumura? CO: Aye. AA: Nine, Justin Ackerman? JA: Aye. AA: Thank you. OK. Sylvia… SW: Who’s signing it and who’s writing it? You’ll write it? AA: I’m writing it. SW: OK. AA: Ah, moving on to the Piha fencing. I’m sorry I did not really let you guys talk about that one – I do not hunt in that area. All I know is that – that is a very strong rifle hunting area and there’s been a lot of hunters that used to use that area – I not really sure – maybe Ian can say how much people actually use that area if they do use the sign in check-in station. I know before it was \[unclear\] with people, um, saying that the check-in station wasn’t in an adequate place for that area, I not sure if you guys were at the check-in station in that area, I not sure – this is Robert Duerr’s district, in District – 1. JPC: Yeah, three out there… \[Unclear\] AA: So \[unclear\] it was a very hunt able area – rifles only, no dogs, that was pretty much the hunting rules back then, so they were getting a lot pressure from environmentalists and the bird 28 community to completely fence off – it’s just like the same thing. They fenced off the top area because the lower area is fenced off to what state park is that? JPC: Hakalau… AA: Hakalau – it’s above Hakalau, ah, Hakalau park… IC: Bird park or whatever it is… \[Unclear\] up there… AA: So you want to continue and expand their… IC: Bird refuge. RD: You know, Chair, do we want to put this on an agenda item and then deal with this… AA: Oh, we’re just opposing – drafting up a letter to oppose this. But if you want investigate it – I not sure what point, status… RD: OK. Just a comment. AA: We can bring it in and maybe we can \[unclear\] you can do… RD: Chair, Duerr, District – 1. Can we draft a letter; can we make a motion right now? AA: That’s pretty much what I’m trying to get at… SW: OK. I’m sorry, I’m not clear on what exactly you’re talking about because you can’t be asking to do a motion for something that’s not on the agenda… AA: I’m asking for a motion from Mr. Pang’s presentation to oppose the fencing up in the Piha Forest Reserve. SW: Did Mr. Pang address the Piha Forest Reserve? AA: Yes, he did. SW: OK. Then we’re fine… AA: I know, that’s what I’m talking about it. SW: Well, I just need… AA: So, can I have a motion? SW: Just be clear… AA: Can I have a motion to oppose the fencing up in the Piha Forest Reserve. 29 ACTION ITEM: LT: Leomana, District – 3, I’d like to make a motion to oppose the fencing – the Piha Forest Reserve Area – to keep – ask it open for wildlife to flourish. BL: Brian, District – 4. I second that motion. AA: Discussion, for discussion. Any discussion coming from the Commissioners? LT: I’d just like to keep that place open for the hunters on that side, I don’t usually hunt that side unless I’m invited by one of the local community members and for me – so the better I can keep everyone’s hunting areas the safer my kids will be \[unclear\]. AA: Basically, the same thing. I support, you know, the opposition of this letter, like I said, I’m not sure what the number is nowadays but I know it was a very huntable area back in the day for guys that actually used rifles, high-powered rifles, they’re losing a lot of their hunting areas like they say “the Slice” after the realignment of Saddle Road – now they have a slice – so they’re taking away that hunting area from rifle hunters and they’re turning it into an archery area so the rifle hunters are getting less and less areas to actually go out and gather, right, so, we’re just trying our best as the powers that we have to in an advisory standard to keep fighting for everybody, not just one side. SW: OK. So, far what I have is there’s a motion on the floor for GMAC to draft an opposition letter regarding fencing within the Piha Forest Reserve. Right now the reasons for that letter will be to keep open – to keep the area open for hunting specifically rifle hunters are losing valuable hunting areas and this would be one of them. AA: So, Justin Ackerman can have more hunting areas to go to. LT: Or at least one. AA: And Leomana because he’s got his new rifle too. LT: E, I got all Hawaiian Homelands. SW: Is there any reason that it’s currently \[unclear\] that GMAC wants to address as to why the needs of the rifle hunters outweigh the current reasons for them putting up a fence? AA: The reasoning behind that fencing is for environmental reasons, right, pretty much what Jake brought up so we going encounter the same reasoning why all these areas is being fenced. They say soil… SW: Soil erosion? AA: Soil erosions, they say \[unclear\], they say all that. SW: So how would allowing the rifle hunters back in help with the environmental issues? 30 AA: Because you’re letting the rifle hunters back in or just hunters back in so you can go ahead and take away the population from the wild ungulates in the area. SW: Do you want to add that to reason? AA: Yes, mam… LT: Amen. The top of this property is that – how far does PTA come down. ‘Cause I not too familiar with the area out there to \[unclear\]. IC: Piha is not Malua on top of Mana Road and it goes all the way down to Piha-Kahuku Road sandwiched between Malua and Nauhi.. LT: OK. Yeah, ‘cause I was trying to find – I was on the DLNR website looking for maps of this area, like what area is considered what area. It’s all those paper maps I get so confused. IC: Yeah, yeah. \[Unclear\] that they inter-act with them. LT: Um-hum. AA: So, at this time we going take a roll call vote. District – 1, Robert Duerr. RD: Aye. AA: District – 2, vacant. District – 3? LT: Aye. AA: District – 4, Brian Ley. BL: Aye. AA: District – 5, Aye, Abraham. District – 6, absent, District – 7, absent, District – 8, Cortney? CO: Aye. AA: District – 9, Justin Ackerman? JA: Aye. AA: Six ayes, no nayes, the motion carries. The same thing with the previous vote. SW: And who is gonna draft the letter? AA: Drafting up the letter Mr. Duerr and I’ll assist him. Next meeting will be December 19 at th 9:00 am in Hilo. If Cortney and Justin can make it to Hilo next month on the 19 that will be greatly appreciated. We’ll try to get in contact with Natalie and Austin to have everybody in Hilo next month. 31 6. ANNOUNCEMENTS: SW: I’ll just remind everyone the December meeting will likely be holding elections for Chair and Vice Chair… AA: Yeah. SW: Which will take effect on the January meeting. AA: Yeah. Votes will be commissioned in the next month’s meeting. ?: Are you on the ballot \[unclear\]. SW: What? No. I am not a member of GMAC, I’m staff. AA: Other than that, continue on with you guys’ PIGs \[unclear\] report, Leomana I think he has two, Natalie has two, there’s I think four active PIGs going on so please get it together. Be safe out there in whatever you guys do – Happy Thanksgiving. 7. ADJOURNMENT (11:00 AM): AA: Other than that, can I have a motion to adjourn… LT: Leomana, District – 3, I’d like to make a motion to adjourn the meeting at 10:58a. ?: Second. AA: All in favor say aye. \[The ayes have it\] Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary 32