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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-02-05 HCHA Approved MinutesMeeting ofthe HAWAI`ICOUNTY HOUSING AGENCY Hilo, Hawai`i February 5, 2013 Agency Members Present Absent and Excused Greggor Ilagan Dennis “Fresh” Onishi Dru Mamo Kanuha – arrived at 9:09am) Zendo Kern JYoshimoto Val Poindexter – arrived at9:09am) Margaret Wille Brenda Ford Karen Eoff Staff Members Present Members ofthe Public Stephen Arnett Tim Reece Susan Akiyama Alan Rudo AmySelf Nadine Pomroy Mr. Ilagan: Housing Agency tomy farright isCouncil Member J Yoshimoto, Council Member Zendo Kern, Council Member Karen Eoff, and tomyfar left isCouncil Member Margaret Wille, Council Member Brenda Ford, and I’mCouncil Member Greggor Ilagan, the Chair for the Housing Agency. At this time we will call toorder the Housing Agency meeting. Now itisthestatements from the public and Iwant to beadvised that you have three minutes per agenda item. Iwant acount forthetestifiers starting with Waimea. Good morning Waimea, dowehave any testifiers? Mr. Hirt: Good morning Chair. We donot have any testifiers for the Housing Agency this morning. Mr. Ilagan: Mahalo, Waimea. Moving ontoPahoa. Good morning Pahoa, dowe have anytestifiers? Pahoa: Good morning Chair. Nowedonot have any testifiers for your committee this morning. Mr. Ilagan: Mahalo Pahoa. Good morning Kona? Dowe have any testifiers? 2124hnhp HCHA February 5, 2013 Kona: Good morning Chair. Nowedonothave anytestifiers today for your committee thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Mahalo Kona. Moving toKa’u, Ka’udowehave any testifiers? Ka’u: Good morning Chair. No we don’thave anytestifiers here in Ka’u. Mr. Ilagan: Mahalo Ka’u, and wehave one testifier in Hilo and we’llstart with Tim Reece. Morning Tim. TimReece: Aloha andgood morning toyouMr. Chair and the County. Igotto get this straight here because this isabig part of my testimony. Hawai‘iCounty Housing Agency, right now you’renot Council Members. Imean technically andapart ofwhat Iwanted to speak about was onyour New Business A. This isapproval ofa resolution. Well couple things here, there’sno number and I’ve been trying toget information on this resolution. Ifinally got it here this morning seconds ago. It’sincluded in notanagenda but anagenda with abunch of addendums because Ihave the agenda right here andit’snot in the agenda. SonowIfind it on thetable over here seconds before themeeting. If youlook atthese authorizing laws I’ve been telling this to thepublic andthe County and the media atlarge here and nobody seems to becatching onto it. But ifyoulook atthevery law that is cited here asSection H46-15 ofthe Hawai‘iRevised Statutes it isclear that this body here is not suppose tobe staffed byHawai‘iCounty Council Members. Ifyou look atthe conflict inthere, they talk about aCounty agency oran appointee ofthe Mayor, how didyou folks get your offices here. Iknow Ican’task you aquestion but rhetorically doyouall remember you gotitby default by being elected county Council Members. You’re not appointed bythe Mayor; you’renotpicked by theMayor. Actually what happened was somehow youwere able to run for twoelected offices atthe same time, something that is prohibited under state election laws? It’salso prohibited by the County Charter, however, you didn’tnotyou people personally but theelection information theballot didnot inform the public that youwould also by default because years back aprior County Council decided that they would try to maintain control ofall HUD monies and County Housing Agency issues. They said wewill be from now onCounty Council will be 227Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 the County Housing Agency. SoI’mgoing tourge you toread 46-15andlook atthe conflicts inthere when they talk about experimental anddemonstration housing projects. TheMayor of each County, after holding apublic hearing onthe matter and receiving the approval ofthe respective council, shall be empowered to designate areas ofland for experimental and demonstration housing projects. Ishould’ve underlined the sections that are more relevant toitbut you seethe part about theMayor appointing ordesignating the areas the Mayor of each county with the approval of therespective Council maydesignate aCounty Agency orofficial who shall have the power toreview allplans and specs for thesubdivisions development improvement of theland involved and construction sale ofhomes thereon. The County Agency or official shall have the power toapprove or disapprove ormake modifications toallor any portions ofthe plans and specs. Now Council Members you have tohear the conflict inthere that you’reappointing yourselves but the Mayor suppose to appoint you. He supposed toput you inthere and you’re also supposed to be experts in the field. You’resupposed to besocial workers, housing officials, real estate officials, sales officials. So youknow let mesee if Icanfind theother part here that was really good you’re going torecommend something toyourselves on this resolution, county thecharter talks about getting away from useless redundancy sowhy is this silliness continuing, how come nobody. Mr. Ilagan: Mr. Reece, please summarize. Mr. Reece: There’s my summary, how come nobody has had the guts tolook under this folly andif you want to relate that towhy we’vebeen foundering inmany ways with County Housing. Itmight just be because how the board is comprised for comparison look at 20-38 notice how that is peopled it’sbyexperts inthe private community. SomanIthank you folks foryour service and Idon’tmean manits habit. Thank youIappreciate the work Housing Agency isdoing. Let’sget back to within the law though and doitright. Thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Mahalo, Mr. Reece. Atthis time wewill endthe statements from the public andmoving onto approval ofthe minutes, may Ihave amotion toapprove theminutes of January 8, 2013. Mr. Kern: So moved. 327Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Onishi: Second. Mr. Ilagan: Moved byCouncil Member Kern and second byCouncil Member Onishi, any discussion? None. We’lldoavoice vote, all in favor say aye. CouncilMember’s: Aye Ms. Ford: Excuse medo wehave aclerk? Do weneed aclerk for this? Mr. Ilagan: No wedon’t. Alloppose say no, none. Ayes have it approval ofthe minutes for January 8, 2013. Moving onto New Business, may Ihave amotion for approval of aresolution authorizing exemptions ofacertain code requirements, pursuant to section 201(H)-38and Section 46-15 ofthe Hawai‘iRevised Statutes for the housing units tobe constructed byKidds Development Corporation atKumulani Gardens inSouth Hilo. Mr. Onishi: Somoved Mr. Kern: Second Mr. Ilagan: Moved byCouncil Member Onishi second by Council Member Kern, any discussion? Council Member Ford? Ms. Ford: Does anybody know what theresolution number is because wedon’thave one? Howcanyou move aresolution into life on thefloor that hasnonumber? Mr. Ilagan: I’mgoing tocall up theDirector of Housing, Mr. Arnett, could you please step up? Ms. Ford: Idon’tknow that Mr. Arnett will beable to answer that question because all bills and resolutions need to have numbers assigned tothem. It’snot in the laserfiche? And Ihave several more problems with this. Goahead if you want to ask, well Ihave thefloor soletme tell you all theproblems Isee with it. First of all, Kidds Development isnot inthe original ordinance. Theoriginal owner ofthis property has adifferent name so Idon’tknow there’snoinformation inthe ordinance. I went back and actually pulled the ordinance that this resolution bytheway aresolution hasno force oflaw and that’sinour council rules soIwent back andlooked atthe original ordinance which 1981. This has been sitting around for 31 years 427Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 and has never been cancelled. It’sstill alive ordinance and it is actually inthe Code ifyoulook in the section referred to 7.9you will find this inthe code. Wewant tomake acode change ofany kind you have touse abill not aresolution. Secondly, this developer hasshown upapparently has purchased the property when you look atthemetes and bounds inthe original ordinance you will seethat there’s30.5orI’msorry there is approximately 30.001 acres. You look at theresolution 25 acres. What happened tofive acres? Ihave no clue there’s nobody toexplain that atthis point. Secondly we’re doing affordable housing outside ofan ordinance. Remember that a resolution hasnoforce inlaw so ifthe developer decides not tofollow this and we wind upin court we have something that has noforce oflaw trying toenforce alaw that’s already on the books, Secondly, thirdly, or fourthly, orsomething, when youlook attheexhibit this exhibit all of these things inthis exhibit should have financial impacts, serious financial impacts andshould beintheordinance. If we’regoing toamend the ordinance you amend the ordinance. When you suspend curbs, gutters, and sidewalks that’ssomething that we putinto all of our rezoning. Same thing if we’regoing tophase itornotphase it that’sin thething. Andthen lastly Hawai‘iCounty fees their asking tobeexempt from fees. Idon’t even know what fees these entail this isso nebulas andgrammatically incorrect as well that Ican’ttell what they’re doing. But there’safinancial impact to the County that should bein theCode orin the ordinance so ithas the force of law soIobject to this entire proceeding. Ithink we should have Mr. Arnett withdraw this and take the Code Imean the original Ordinance 716anddoournormal standard operating procedure which is toramsayer so that wecan add or subtract what we need. Iyield. Mr. Ilagan: Before you take thefloor, Council Member Wille, I’m going to have Mr. Arnett speak on the resolution, before you. Ms. Wille: okay. Mr. Arnett: This resolution isbasically a201(H) exemption resolution. Inessence 201(H) gives any kind of adeveloper for oftypically affordable homes theopportunity toexempt themselves out of certain things. Before you folks were elected we hadForrest City come before us with awhole laundry list of 201(H) exemptions for their project 527Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 right below Laiopua in Kailua-Kona. The original 201(H) exemption request wasfor 93 items. Weultimately gotitdown to 20 something, but long story short isthat the idea istoexempt themselves from the Code for certain items. Inthis particular instance it has todowith the building permit fees for affordable housing which isafairly standard thing that developers are requests inorder tokeep the costs down for their affordable units and also the inspection fees inthis particular case. They’re also asking for swales tobeallowed instead of curbs and gutters. Idid myownlittle investigation by going outto theneighboring communities to see exactly what we have interms of swales and gutters and the width thereof. Myfirst reaction wasthis isasafety issue or could beasafety issue because we don’thave sidewalks for kids to walk along the streets but after seeing howit’sdone and neighboring communities, Sunrise Ridge etcetera, theswales and Iused theterm swales because it’snothing more than anextension ofthe asphalt paving is quite wide and in myopinion is generally enough that it is safe Ifelt okay with the safety ofthis particular request. I’mgoing to defer toCorporation Counsel with regard towhether or notthis should beanordinance verses aresolution. Obviously I’mnot alawyer and cannot really comment onwhether itshould orshould not bean ordinance verses aresolution but long story short this ispretty much standard procedure interms ofadeveloper coming andasking forexemptions from the code in order to have their project be somewhat cheaper to build because weareindeed creating affordable housing for people that will ultimately beforsale atanamount less than what would be market. Now, Miss Ford and Iboth agree that thecode itself allowing for affordable housing tobe sold at hundred and forty percent of theaverage median income issomewhat exaggerated I’venever agreed with that but nonetheless it’snever been changed sothat is pretty much where we are interms ofwhat the Code. It’s not to saythat Iagree with it because Idon’t, but nonetheless I am stuck with ituntil such time asthis body as Council decides that this iswhat they want to change. So that’smy statement at this particular point Iwould ask Miss Self tocome and speak to whether ornot an ordinance is required verses aresolution ifI may ask Chair toallow that tohappen. Mr. Ilagan: I’mgoing to, before wedothat, I’mgoing tohave Council Member Wille speak. Goon. 627Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Ms. Wille: Ok, Amy you canstay there and hang in there. Just so youanswer these questions at the same time. Letme say Ishare Ms. Ford’sconcerns. Obviously weallcare about affordable housing. Idon’tthink that this meets the county standards for affordable housing and appears to use thestandards forthe State standards. Soif you look at the criteria foreach ofthe categories, itdoes not appear to bewhat isin theCounty Code it appears to beinthe State. Now maybe Ijust need an explanation onthat Iwould also Imean Itend tobelieve that if exemptions are appropriate that we ought to beworking on those to make thenorm andnot where everything isby exception but tothe extent that there are exceptions. It will bereally helpful formeas abeginner Council Member tosay “here is the exemption here’swhat itwould require here iswhat wewant to do andwhy it’sokay.” Let mesay I’mvery disturbed in many areas ofWaimea where the sidewalks are omitted, pedestrian safety isprobably my communities highest priority we have entire subdivisions where you’rein and out ofcars Idon’tnecessarily care that everything bepaved bethat but Ijust so you know Iamnotokay with exempting and clearing where it’snot pedestrian safety I don’tmind. Let’smake it alittle narrower road orwhatever as long as itprovides but that’sreally important tome. Ialso want tojust quickly say and Idon’tfeel we can getinto this today butIhave some of the same concerns as Mr. Reece and Ifeel that weneed todeal with that and Iwould like someone tocome speak toit and ifweneed toaddress itweneed to address itagain. Idon’tfeel educated enough atthis point to speak on itbut Ishare your concerns andit looks like areal problem to mesoIthink weneed toget itstraight but nothere today. Soagain, Amy, ifyou could clarify interms ofCounty affordable housing standards verses State and this isnotwhen I look at thecounty alignment. Itdoesn’tline upandI’mnot going to bevoting infavor atthis time. I’mall foraffordable housing, Ijust don’twant tobedoing something the wrong way. Thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Kern? Mr. Kern: Thank you, Mr. Chair, well first ofallour numbers foraffordable housing arenot really affordable Icompletely agree on that and Ithink we should dosomething to look atthat but the wayIunderstand this is that 201(H) reso isone of those things that have theforce oflaw ineffect of law inthis 727Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 situation. HRS 201(H) provides for doing the exemptions for zoning via aresolution approved bythe council. Sotomethis isanalignment with what wearedoing this in not this is separate then what Mr. Reece was talking about. But this process that we have right here isthe process that weuse and that is governed byour HRS and itallows usto provide such aproject beexempt from all statutes, ordinances, charter provisions and rules of any government agency relating toplanning, zoning, construction standards of subdivision development and improvement ofland for the construction dwelling therein. Sowe dohave this power we dohave this authority to do this I support this. Wedoneed more affordable housing I wish itwere more affordable. The exemptions Ifeel make sense when wetalk about doing away with curbs, gutters, and sidewalks on this project. Itdoes not mean that wedonothave wide shoulders that are paved. Ithink the best example ofthat would be Sunrise Estates, Sunrise Ridge, it’svery wide, its friendly pedestrians can walk inthere, it’sactually insome cases alittle bit greener because you’re using alot less concrete and less man hours, less machinery, less fuel being burned, smaller carbon footprint. Idon’t think itshould be the standard butin a situation like this Ithink it does make sense because weare allowing that ifwewere just going to doatwenty-foot wide road and there’sarock onthe side of it. Good luck, Iwouldn’t support that butthis isnot the case. It’sthe full width of the right-of-way, the full width oftheroad and itwill have theshoulders forpeople towalk onandit will besafe sothis makes sense tome. Iwill fully support this and look forward to continue towork with the Housing Agency. Thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Yoshimoto? Mr. Yoshimoto: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ms. Self, before Isay anything did youwant toaddor provide any further information to theCouncil Members that would help usindiscussing this issue? AmySelf: Yes, and I’msorry I’mnotblinking at anyone, not winking atanyone Ihave ascratched cornea, but Ijust want to get through the six things that you had concerns with, Ms. Ford. Ms. Ford: Let’sstart with theresolution number that’snot there. 827Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 AmySelf: Idon’tknow who assigns the resolution numbers, I don’tknow ifthat’s, Idon’tknow, that’ssomething Idon’t sorry Idon’tknow about that but Ithink the resolution numbers probably would have tocome from theagency, butyou could check with your clerk on that. I’mnot sure; anyway, letme start with thefirst item that you mentioned, was you were stating that there isadifferent owner than the original ordinance that waspassed in1981. Well, these ordinances affect the property not theowner sopeople can buy property that’salready zoned for has already been rezoned. It doesn’tmatter, it’stheproperty that isrezoned notthe owners. The second one was that you mentioned that reso doesn’thave the force effect oflaw, that’sifyou look at the charter itsays unless it requires legislative actions orsomething tothat effect. So this isbystate law that requires that the legislative body ofthe county approve orapprove with modification ordisapprove the project byresolution within 45 days after you’ve received it. So you guys have 45days to either approve, modify, ordisapprove andif you don’ttake action in45 days from when youreceive this it’sgoing tobe deemed automatically approved by State law. Thethird item was the difference inthe acreage if you look at the real tax map, webpage atthe TMK itsays that it’s 25 acres. Idon’tknow ifthefive acres got subsequently subdivided out, Idon’tknow. The planning director may be able to speak tothat but the tax map keyand the real property tax is stating 25 acres. T The third item, sorry the forth item was, something about affordable housing onIcan’tremember what you asked about affordable housing but this is anaffordable housing project and the whole reason for these exemptions. The reason the State Legislature passed 201(H) istoallow affordable housing projects that areaffordable housing projects andthey have to qualify under State law. So those projects they want tobe able tomove quickly and they arethey canget exemptions from any County Code, State law, rules, all ofthese things aslong as it doesn’taffect safety orhealth and all theexemptions that are listed here affect safety or health. The next item was aserious impact has tobeanordinance no it does not. State lawrequires itto be aresolution passed bythe County Council. Thelast item isthat thefees are exempted and 927Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 it will cause afinancial impact tothe County; there’s State lawsays that they can beexempt from any county code and this isoneofthe Ithink this isunder the building right inspection fees. Soit’sby State law. Mr. Yoshimoto: Ok, thank you, Ms. Self, Mr. Arnett doyou have anything else youwanted toadd asfaras information for the Council Members? Mr. Arnett: Not at this time, no. Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay, Inoticed that the representative from Kidds Development isnot here, were they supposed tobe here this morning? Mr. Arnett: Not to myknowledge, no. Mr. Yoshimoto Ok, myunderstanding cause they’resupposed tobe here to explain as far as, you know the things you mentioned about the reasons forthe exemption and things like that. Mr. Arnett: Susan just indicated that hedidcall yesterday and hasfood poisoning and wasunable tomake itasaresult. That’s all Iknow. Mr. Yoshimoto: Ok, for theCouncil Members’ information this is in District twowhich Irepresent and Iattended acommunity meeting where committee members came and had anopportunity to talk to this development thedevelopment representatives about these exemptions; and you know basically what itcomes down to isMr. Kern ismentioned ifyou want to build affordable housing how are yougoing todo it. Soit’seither requests his exemptions to get itto alower price orifyoudon’tthen you have to have ahigher price and then wedon’tknow if itreally becomes affordable atthat point. Soreally what Iwanted, todo is have them available tospeak tothat issue because it’sjust aquestion ofnumbers whether we can orcannot doin terms of what we want todo. If the goal is to build affordable housing then this is something that thecouncil should consider. Ifthat isthegoal andIthink that is, cause weneed tohave more affordable housing then you gottoweigh it; at what cost; isit going to be acommunity that isreflected of the surrounding area, is itgoing tobe consistent with the other homes, and I think it is. But rather than mejust telling youall this I really would rather have Mr. Pappos and Mr. LeeIthink were the ones that came atthe meeting because Iattended that community 1027Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 meeting. Ithink itwasinNovember December somewhere thereabouts but anyway Steve you want to- Mr. Arnett: They are the principals, Jim Lee and Jim Pappos, yes. Mr. Yoshimoto: Right okay. SoI’mgiving youtheshort summary ofwhat they told me and atthe meeting that Iattended where community members there, butmy preference ofcourse if tohave them here so they cananswer more questions directly cause I can’tspeak ontheir behalf. I’monly telling you what Iheard so Iyield the floor at this time thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Director, what would you like tosee happen tothis resolution at this time? Mr. Arnett: Well tobe honest with you, if hearing from the developers that the principals involved which would be Mr. Lee andMr.Pappos becomes animportant issue for you folks then I would offer that someone make anamendment tostay this particular resolution atthis particular time becomes aquestion of howcritical it istohear from those individuals. But you must remember that the clock is ticking with regard to approval of the201(H) resolution. Imean once itcomes before the agency the clock begins totick 45 days; thereafter it’sdeemed approved. This was anamendment tothe 201(H) law that was passed about twoyears ago. Iwe actually wrote up aletter in opposition to that particular amendment to the201(H) law. We felt that 45 days was just simply notenough and in our experience with Kamakana ninety-sixexemption request Ithink pretty much proved tousthat 45 days wasnot enough, soI’mnot going to say youshould orshould not. Mr. Ilagan: Mr. Arnett, if we postpone this tothenext committee meeting, how many days dothey have left? Mr. Arnett: Idon’tknow. Alan? AlanRudo: Well the resolution has to beapproved at council this is only step oneinthat process. Ms. Wille: We can actually have acouncil meeting. Mr. Ilagan: Hold on Mr. Arnett: The assumption from mystaff is it’sless than a month. 1127Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Ilagan: Less than amonth. Mr. Arnett: Yes. Mr. Ilagan: And westill need togothrough council? Mr. Arnett: One reading atcouncil, yes. Mr. Ilagan: One reading tocouncil? Mr. Arnett: Yes. Mr. Ilagan: Now that one reading through council ifwehave the developer here and iflet’ssayit’sdoesn’tgo through because of what weheard orthen it’sdone. Mr. Arnett: Theoretically, what youcould doisyou could pass this resolution today, youcould require the developer tobe present at thecouncil meeting where theresolution is onthe agenda and you could quiz them at that time. And if the answers that you receive at that particular council meeting were not adequate for your decision-making process you could vote it down at that particular time. But Iwould, after giving itasecond thought, Iwould think that since the clock continues totick that it probably is inourbest interest to pass this today and then at the council level make the decision astowhether ornot wecontinue toagree with this resolution and pass itorvote it down at that time. That would bemyrecommendation atthis point. Mr. Ilagan: Thank youMr. Arnett, since we dogot time, I’m going to continue the discussion andwedid hear two opposition and wedid hear two support. I’mgoing to start with the support with Council Member Onishi? Mr. Onishi: Thank youMr. Chair, yeah it’smy first time so, so Steve, sowhen doyou folks receive this, the resolution orthe application? Canyou come forward please and introduce yourself? Mr. Arnett: This isAlan Rudo of mystaff. AlanRudo: Thank you Dennis. We’vebeen working onthis for about two years on this thewhole process and Ialso want to point out that the developer didsign affordable housing agreement and contrary tocouple statements byCouncil Members itdoes meet both thecounty requirements andthestate requirements aswell. Wecheck it with both because they did do 1227Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 affordable housing agreement with us. It’salso going to be building houses in the eighty percent and below bracket and in between eighty and ahundred percent andthen uptoahundred and 40percent which is allowed bylaw. So they are going tobe doing it atthe different brackets the affordable housing. Mr. Onishi: Somy other question wasthat, sowhen dothis cause we have 45days right inorder to pass so- AlanRudo: Ohitcame toyou when weposted from what my understanding iswhen wesend it for posting your considered receiving ittheday one thenext dayafter wesend it toyou, so then the45clock starts there. Mr. Onishi: Ok, so Mr. Arnett: That’satcouncil so, I’mgoing to stand corrected by saying that the 45days isnot started until such time as it gets to council that’swhen thefirst daystarts. SoIstand corrected. Mr. Onishi: Okso we’re talking about like today, now. Mr. Arnett: No, today isthe housing agency meeting not the council meetings sountil it gets agenized onthe council calendar. Mr. Onishi: Oh, then the 45 days. Mr. Arnett: Then the 45 days starts, yes, soIapologize for my ignorance. Mr. Onishi: Just tolet Council Members knowthat Mr. Arnett did mention about Forest City andwe did like he mentioned from ninety three exemptions went down tolike forty something and so there is some time but itwassurprising that the developer didn’tcome andtalk tousindividually because then we could you know tell them our concerns and you know like how Forest City did, they came to meet theCouncil Members and wetold them ourconcerns andthen they went back totry adjust and that’s howIthink theprocess wasfaster and easier for everyone right? AlanRudo: Yeah, and that’sanexcellent suggestion andI thought they were meeting with, Iknow they were meeting with the ones inthe district; Ithought they were meeting with everybody too. 1327Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Onishi: Yeah and cause you know when Ilook atthis too, it mentions about Hilo Hillside AlanRudo: Correct. Mr. Onishi: And also Iguess that Kumulani Gardens so that’s like two separate projects? AlanRudo: Right. Yes, under the Code theHilo Hillside isgoing tohave affordable housing requirement as well, but they cando it offsite with 15 miles under Chapter 11and they chose to originally they could’vedone just lots too, to satisfy the affordable housing condition at Hilo Hillside andwhen working with Kumulani they decided toactually build houses cause it’s easier for us toget more affordable housing that way. Mr. Onishi: Sothe affordable housing going be at this Kumulani Gardens? AlanRudo: Yeah and it’sliterally, Imean onthemapitlooks like you could walk from one tothe other but it’syouhave to goback down toKomohana andcome back up the extension sothey are alittle bitseparate but they’re well within fifteen miles radius. Mr. Onishi: And maybe you could explain tothe Council Members where Hillside is Hilo Hillside? AlanRudo: Hilo Hillside iswhen you’regoing upthe Puainako extension it’son theleft side ofthe highway where they’re building where asright across the street is where you have the upper extensions from Sunrise. This Hilo Hillside isconsidered Sunrise Estates third subdivision and, bythe way, with the streets and whales that wasone oftheconditions that came up and they’rebuilding Hilo Hillside at all market units and they’re doing the same type ofstreets with the wide twelve-foot swales and wediddrive around to make sure that itmet health and safety issues. Mr. Onishi: Good, so, one possibility isforus topostpone this tothe next housing meeting and have the developer come andtalk to theindividual council members. That’sapossibility right and then wewouldn’tbe into that 45days yet, correct? AlanRudo: Well Ipersonally amnot infavor ofdelays because ultimately itcost more money with the financing and the 1427Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 construction andthen that’sturned out to beabigger cost that they pass on tothe home buyers Mr. Onishi: Your lights off. AlanRudo: Sorry we were you know been working on this and been pushing for this forseveral years tomove through allthe different processes including review byall the different departments ofthe exemptions. Weactually received seven exemptions requested originally and we were able topare itdown to three critical needed to make this done. Mr. Onishi: Okso just asuggestion that youknow it might be where to make Council Members much more you know eased that they get totalk to… AlanRudo Well I’mgoing tomake that recommendation assoon as we leave that they contact each ofyou because you know it isa time of the essence and Idon’twant todelay this affordable project I’ve been working on this project since youknow 2010. Mr. Onishi: Isee, okthanks. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Poindexter Ms. Poindexter: Yeah if Imay if Icould ask Council Member Yoshimoto aquestion. Mr. Yoshimoto: Yes. Ms. Poindexter Direct impact comes within your district, what wasthe feedback from thecommunity members inyour district and didthey overwhelmingly support this project orwhat feedback from the community? Mr. Yoshimoto: Myrecollection was they were supportive ofthe project. They had some concerns about anaccess road that ifyou look at the project they didn’twant the people from the proposed subdivision tobedriving through their subdivision and butwhen you look at the layout itreally looks like you know they wouldn’tdothat anyway because itjust doesn’t make any logical sense todothat; but when you seeIdon’tknow ifyou have the map available but. AlanRudo: Idon’t have the full map with methis subdivision butIdo that wasthe major concern was actually thetraffic flow and when they showed thetraffic study done that it was 1527Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 actually not flowing the direction that the people were concerned about because toget to the highway you wouldn’tgo back around anddown into theneighborhood which iswhat they were assuming could happen and actually that subdivision had been stubbed outfor this originally sothey were connecting to what had been planned. Itwas aproject back in 1981 but there was nowater. That was themajor reason this project didn’tgo forward, they didn’thave water availability until very recently. Mr. Yoshimoto: So, toanswer Council Member Poindexter’s question, so the community, myrecollection wasin favor ofit butmaybe someone help meIdon’tthink the exemptions were on the table at that time, cause Idon’tremember the exemptions being discussed at the community meeting. Steve orAlan, didyou recall? Mr. Arnett: Since Iwasn’tatthat meeting Idon’treally know but Idoubt it. Idoubt that there were exemptions onthetable when you had your public hearing. Mr. Yoshimoto: Okyestothat’sImean that’smyrecollection so that’swhy Itoowanted tohear from them just toseeto have them explain youknow directly, but astheproject itself I think is apositive thing.---------, sorry. Goahead Ms. Poindexter, Ms. Poindexter You know, more and more, Imean I’mhearing that things may not the community maynot have heard about the exemptions andso Ifeel alittle uncomfortable you know passing this through. Ifeel like we need amotion to postpone andbring some of the people who aredoing the project and then hearing more alittle bitmore from the people being directly impacted bythis project at this point and from what I’mhearing I’mnot feeling comfortable with itso Ijust wanted toshare that with you soIyield at this time. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Kanuha? Mr. Kanuha: Thank youMr. Chair. As you heard wewould like to hear from the developers and ask them the questions so definitely recommended forthem tocome the next time. Astothe postponement Idon’tknow what’sgoing tohappen with that but, technical question for thecouncil staff, if there was ifthis isappropriate toyou inpast without the resolution number I don’tknow if that was explained earlier or not but 1627Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Ilagan: Let’saskthe question to Council Member Yoshimoto. Mr. Yoshimoto: This isjust a point ofinformation forthe Council Members, sostaff has indicated tome that the process works is once this passes outofcommittee and goes tothe council, then itwill beassigned aresolution number because we didn’thave control over this document until itarrives tous so it’llhave aresolution number after Mr. Kanuha: Currently, thank you Iyield. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Eoff. Ms. Eoff: Iagree with Mr. Kanuha that itwould if itdoesn’t affect the 45 day time clock, it maybeworth our while to postpone ittothe next Housing Agency meeting, and what Chair Yoshimoto said is myunderstanding too isbecause the Housing Agency does function differently than our normal council committees. Wedon’tget these resolutions transmitted tousin the same fashion asother things come tocommittee so they do not get numbered until they come to the council which is confusing because this oneisactually Iguess it’sbecause you drafted itmay be quite awhile ago. Maybe it’sonan old it’s got the oldvoting block from the previous council tooso I think there’sthis resolution may need tobe resubmitted through the Housing Agency in adifferent format and then once wedo pass it on tocouncil itwould be part of our numbering system at that time. SoIwould probably support apostponement Idon’t know if it’stime tomake the motion but, okay there’smore discussion so Iyield. Mr. Ilagan: Weheard everybody on the floor andbefore wego onto other Council Members Igot aquestion for you. Iwas wondering would you support apostponement to get everything kind of organized orhow do youfeel about this? Mr. Arnett: Ihave noproblem supporting apostponement. You know obviously what we want to do iswewant tocome and make sure that everybody who hears our resolution has satisfaction and clearly there’snot satisfaction this morning so Iwould support apostponement ifthat’showeveryone else feels. We’re not here totry and ramrod any kind of exemptions down anyone’s throat. We, Iagree with Councilman Yoshimoto that isit probably appropriate tohear from thedevelopers and let them tell you to your faces exactly what they think should happen here and why they arerequesting these exemptions. Sotomaybe 1727Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 make everyone happier apostponement isprobably appropriate so with that I’llyield. Mr. Ilagan: Atthis time wedogotother things onthe agenda andwhat I’mgoing to doisI’mgoing to entertain amotion for apostponement for the next Ms. Ford: Mr. Chairman, there’sseveral people onthe council as well as this agency who continue totry to stymie discussion. It’sinappropriate there are things wrong that weneed tohear andbe itput into public and Iwould appreciate if we could go through atleast the second round and probably athird round before you postpone itandstop and stop trying tostop usfrom talking. There are problems here and itisnot fair tousorthe public toignore these problems byjust postponing this. Mr. Ilagan: Mahalo Council Member Ford. Atthis time Iwill entertain amotion for apostponement ifanybody wants tomake that motion? Mr. Yoshimoto: So moved. Mr. Kern: Second Mr. Ilagan: Moved byCouncil Member Yoshimoto second byCouncil Member Kern, anddiscussion onpostponement? Ms. Ford: Yes. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Ford? Ms. Ford: Thank you. Noweshouldn’tpostpone this, weshould continue the discussion because there areother things wrong. There’sacul-de-sac here that violates the county code there’s all kinds of things wrong with this. This could’vebeen done in an ordinance Ihaven’thad achance to call Ms. Leithead Todd up, I’ve had aconversation with her about it and everything you’reputting in here should be inthe ordinance. Miss Self has not answered thequestion. Yes, she said she quoted out ofthe HRSand said that we can dothis bya resolution butour council rules are different andwecan have stricter rules here intheCounty than the State and we need to discuss those things. Iamactually in favor ofthis and I’m going to vote nobased onwhat’sgoing onwith this ramrodding going on inthis council. 1827Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Ilagan: Ijust want tomention that given this postponement wewill have time todiscuss theissues that you have and concerns with the developer so this postponement will actually give us more time and actually sit down and clear out the issues any other Council Members have a, I’mgoing togowith Council Member Wille onpostponement. Ms. Wille: Thank you Chair, yes, just Iwant to make sure that as wepostpone this that our concerns are addressed when we meet next, so Ithink interms of supporting apostponement it’s important to state those. SoIwould like verification onour Code’sSection 11-5(c) and (d) the new criteria for income for credits Idon’tread it asconsistent. You’resaying it’s consistent with both State and County just please. Mr. Kern: We need tobe focusing onthe postponement. Ms. Wille: Okay, well I’msaying this will depend onwhether I vote for itornot. Ialso interms of pedestrian safety Iwould like Mr. Kern: Council Member wedo need tobetalking about the postponement andnot the actual content of thereso. Ms. Wille: Iconsider these together, Idon’tsee this asImean Ithink youcan read it that narrowly I’ve gotacouple. Let me just say the developer didcome tomeand speak he did notspeak about any exemptions he didsaythere wascommunity concern about it. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Wille, please. Ms. Poindexter: We’rediscussing the, canI, can I . . Mr. Ilagan: Hold on, hold on, please. Ms. Wille: Okay, let mejust finish and the planning dowenot do planning committees? Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Wille, please, can we stay on postponement? Ms. Wille: Okay, I see this ispostponement butsince you don’t I’llback off. Mr. Ilagan: Thank you, Council Member Poindexter? 1927Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Ms. Poindexter: I’msupporting the postponement because Ithink we will have enough people here. Youknow we’llhave the developers I’mhoping that wewill have some ofthecommunity members whoare being directly impacted by this project. Wewill probably have I’msure, our Director inPlanning, we’ll have the people that weneed here to have afull discussion. Sothat’s whyI’msupporting the motion for thepostponement tothe call oftheChair tobeable tograb all the resources the information that weneed and Ithink itwill give us time. So we’retalking about discussing the motion for thepostponement in which Iam insupport of, thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Thank youCouncil Member Poindexter. Council Member Yoshimoto? Mr. Yoshimoto: Thank youMr. Chairman, Ms. Poindexter makes good points, Ijust wanted tomake, remind everyone that the reason whyMr. Pappos and Mr. Leeare not here we’retold is that they had food poisoning last night so that’ssomething that’s unexpected that just came up soit’snot like they’re avoiding us orthey don’twant tobe here. So I think the postponement makes sense for many reasons, one because wewant them here; two because if they are these concerns that we’regoing to raise we don’twant to restate them asecond time. Weshould wait till they’re here andthen wecan doitall one time andit makes just more sense rather than doing totwice andalso too if anyone has anyconcerns they can always contact the departments or individuals directly. Mr. Ilagan Council Member Kern? Mr. Kern: Thank you Mr. Chair. Regarding the postponement, Ido agree that weshould have asmuch information aswecan but I feel that wedoneed tobecareful on how weoperate inthis way when people come into doaproject such as this orany project. They look atthetediousness inwhich ittakes togothrough these processes and I’veheard stories in the past that people coming in that would actually have done really great amazing projects, would’ve create alotofjobs, and they looked atour process and they ran the other way andthey said I’llnever come back here again; and so every time we postpone something every time we drag ourfeet onsomething like this, it’sshowing out there that other people that want todoprojects that this is what you’regoing tohave to gothrough and deal with it. Now granted, the developers did have food poisoning that’s unexpected andI’dassume they’dprobably behere, soIthink in this case it does make sense topostpone. Idon’tthink it’s 2027Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 going to kill theproject but Ijust dothink weneed to exercise caution inthis because weare setting the stage for what people aregoing tobeseeing outthere and what we will and will not doand how itwill affect ofsocial economic climate andour economy. Iyield. Mr. Ilagan: Council Member Onishi? Mr. Onishi: Thank youMr. Chair. Wecould postpone this just for twoweeks right? So you folks could come back with the developer butprior like Mr. Kern wassaying but tomethe developer should’vecame and talk toeveryone prior totoday’smeeting which most developers docome especially acertain project like this so I’mthinking so, well it’son thepostponement. So what I’mhoping isthat I’mgoing tosupport the postponement because Iwant the developers tocome in tosee the Council Members within the next couple weeks totalk story andalso asCouncil Members can goand talk to the different departments to make sure that they understand what’sgoing onand this and that. So Iwish that it’snotgoing tobeaonemonth postponement but it will be inlike two weeks. Thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Just toclarify thepostponement isonto the next committee meeting andthat will beI believe February nineteenth? Sothis will beapostponement, excuse me, this will beapostponement tothe next committee meeting onFebruary nineteenth. Since there isno discussion, wewill take aIwant to doavoice vote and allinfavor say aye. CouncilMembers: Aye. Mr. Ilagan: All oppose say no Ms. Ford: No it’sillegal. Mr. Ilagan: Ayes have it, the resolution will bepostponed to the next committee meeting. Mr. Onishi: Mr. Chair, you need to recognize theone novote on record. Mr. Ilagan: Ithought you only have torecognize the Ayes? Ms. Ford: Please note inthe record that Ivoted nobecause this is illegal, thank you. Mr. Onishi Yes. 2127Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Ilagan: Wehave one novote, ayes have ittheresolution will be postponed tothe next committee meeting onFebruary nineteenth. Moving on toadministrator’soral report, Mr. Arnett, now for the oral report do wehave to make amotion to close the file? Does itcould Ihave a, doareport? At this time we’re going to doaadministrator’soral report, Mr. Arnett goes on. Mr. Arnett: Thank you very much, Ijust want topoint out one thing that Housing Agency isreally not acommittee. We’rethe Housing Agency sothat’sjust one thing that’sneeds tobe pointed outtoyou all Mr. Ilagan: Please, what’sthedifference between anagency and acommittee? Mr. Arnett: Idon’twant togive you aspecific definition ofa committee. Ithink is Iwould actually defer toMiss Self to give you that definition, but in essence Ibelieve acommittee is formulated bythe Charter, is that correct? AmySelf: The difference between this and your other committees, the other committees that you have are your committees council committees this isn’tactually, this is actually when you’re part of anagency soyou’re theHousing Agency in these meetings. Sotheother committees like planning committee and all those are actually council committees. Those are all the council committees. This however isnot acommittee; it’sthe Housing Agency, so you’reacting asthe Housing Agency. When you have these meetings even though it’sonthe same dayas your other committee meetings soyou’renotthecouncil right now, you’rethe Housing Agency. Mr. Ilagan: Housing Agency, thank you. Mr. Arnett: Thank you. Just abrief update, wehave two projects that are inthe process ofbeing aworked onat themoment. One is ourUlu Wini project, we have 36units that are nearing completion. Wein ouroffice have applied for what’scalled project-based voucher for those particular units which allow HUD Section 8Vouchers to apply tothe units themselves notto individuals. Soif someone was tomove into one ofour brand new units and that those units areaccepted for project base voucher, the individuals who live inthose units would receive a Section 8Subsidy ofrental assistance onthat particular unit. If they were tomove out, the voucher stays with the unit and does not gowith theindividual which issomewhat different then 2227Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 how section often times works. In other instances Section 8 Voucher go with the individual so they canas they move from apartment to apartment toapartment, the voucher goes with them as opposed to itbeing with theunit itself. So wedointend to apply for project-based vouchers forthe 36 units that come on board probably sometime in the middle of April ormaybe the end ofApril depending upon howquickly wecan get thelandscaping in. Alandscaper was selected yesterday based upon lowbid that was specific landscaping based among my conversations with my Construction Manager yesterday. Wehope tohave the landscaping inand completed by April the fifteenth sothat we can have all ofour brand newunits occupied with low income families atthat particular point and time. Our educational training facility iscompleted. Wehave some federal dollars in there that we need toremove. We’reinthe process ofdoing that; we actually received theletter from HUD yesterday saying it’sthey have given usour approval toremove those dollars once done. The Food Basket and Habitat for Humanity as well as the police department will betenants in that facility and we’ll probably besaving thecounty atleast a hundred thousand dollars annually incommercial rents for the Police Department aswell as generating rents from both the Food Basket and Habitat for Humanity that will probably gointo apot for ultimate capital improvements tothat building should it fall into some kind of disrepair ormaintenance. The other project that wehave is our ninety-one home sites that are available for sale atKamakoa Nui inWaikoloa. That project is forsale atthe moment. Myunderstanding iswe have one buyer confirmed that has been approved bythe lender. Weknew from the very get-gothat having qualified buyers for that particular project was going tobe amassive problem and has certainly approved tobeexactly that. WeHabitat for Humanity has been approved tobuy six lots so thecaveat with Habitat was, are that they are notallowed tobuild anything other than what we’vedesigned for those particular lots. Sothey will build our homes on our lots which will ultimately betheir lots and I think the sooner we can getthat community built out and move onto the next phase the better off we are. That pretty much sums upwhat we have going atthe moment. Our desire is tomove into thethird phase of the vertical atUlu Wini. I’veswitched back from Kamakoa toUlu Wini weneed twenty more units tobecompleted before that project iscompletely and 2327Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 totally finished. We’re short just afewdollars in terms of being able todothe IFB forthat particular project but when completed that entire project will be 96units and hopefully we’llhave 96 families offthestreet and insome quality housing with quality services available through either HOPE Services orwhomever the provider that isselected may be. We areexcited atthe prospect of having that project get completed andmoving ontosomething different interms ofour affordable housing issues. With that Iwill I’ll yield. Mr. Ilagan: Wehave questions right now. Council Member Miss Wille. Ms. Wille: Council Members fine. Yes, canyou tell mewhen you said with Waikoloa that buyers are aproblem, Ijust not sure what that… Mr. Arnett: Well inessence what wedid, Miss Wille, waswegave anybody and everybody whowas on thelist that wasgenerated in 2007 and 2008 back inthe days when Unidev wasthe developer. They were the selected developer bythe prior administration. There were aseries of seven lists that were generated based upon certain priority issues before we actually went tosale to the public. Wedecided tovet allthose lists tomake sure anybody on that list was either not interested inpurchasing any longer orwere and ifsowe could get those people qualified to buy. We’vegone through that entire list and only one person off that list has been qualified. Ithink weonly wound upwith I think twenty whowere continued tobe involved although wehad a hundred andforty seven onthe lists tostart with. Sowhere weareat the moment is going to sale tomembers ofthe public and when Isay members of the public I’mnot talking about snowbirds who move from Minnesota. I’mtalking about workforce people who actually work inthe Waikoloa area that was with that whole project was designed for was workforce housing. It’snot lowincome housing but workforce housing so the idea is tohave people who live I’msorry whowork intheWaikoloa area have housing inthe Waikoloa areas. Wecan reduce the commute from wherever they may be, beit Ocean View, be itHilo, be it Hamakua, what have you sothat the commute time is less andthe quality oflife increases significantly. Ms. Wille: Okay, well let mejust ask you basically went from a hundred andforty seven potential down toone, and Imean that’s what it sounds like, but what are the keyobstacles? Isitthat there’sadown payment that’sdue and they don’thave it? What I 2427Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 don’twant totake alot oftime but Ijust want tostart thinking about this. Mr. Arnett: I’mremised off ofthe particulars ineach and every individual one because Idon’tknow the particulars. Iwould be lying if Ieven offered anybut our typical problems have not been the down payment because down payment has been between three and five percent based upon the program that we deal with Wells Fargo Bank; buttypically it’sbeen credit scores, it’s been having too much debt, itisalso having too much additional debt over and above what is would beconsidered; I’msorry not debt, but salary, having enough income range tocover whatever payments plus insurance and property taxes. Ms. Wille: I’llcut you off just because Idon’twant totake thetime but atsome point I’dreally like to work with this work with you onthis issue andunderstand that better. Thank you. Mr. Ilagan: Mr. Onishi Mr. Onishi: Council Woman Wille, that’ssome good questions that you have, and for thefour years that I’ve been here, affordable housing isone of thekeys toour workforce; and you know like Mr. Arnett just mentioned about like credit ratings and you know debt and this andthat somaybe apossibility where you folks candiscuss later on ismaybe like arental kind ofprocess or instead of itbeing sold tothese people because basically they’re just buying the homes. Correct? The land isnot for sale, correct? Mr. Arnett: Not true, these arefee simple homes. Mr. Onishi: Ohokay. Mr. Arnett: Wechanged that model. Initially themodel was that there’sall going tobe arental sort oflike aBishop Estate we decided buythe land ----- Mr. Onishi: Ah ok, ahok. Mr. Arnett: And the building together soit’sall fee simple. Mr. Onishi: Ohok ok, then well Iguess yah cause of the cost and because ofyou know the 2527Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Arnett: Just soyou folks know and ifIdon’tthink it’s been mentioned inthis particular setting butwedo have restrictions andthe restrictions arethat somebody who owns or buys the property must ownitfor 15years before they have 100 percent equity. If they buy theproperty and sell within 15 years wehave aformula whereby they share anyappreciation with thecounty soifthey buythe home tomorrow for two hundred and fifty thousand and it’sworth four hundred thousand and they sold it thefollowing day, they don’treap awindfall ofthe difference between the purchase price andthe sale price. They arerequired toshare that appreciation with the County for fifteen years. After they’velived in the home forfifteen years, the equity becomes theirs ahundred percent. Ofcourse, thelonger they live inthehouse theless they have to share with the County. Mr. Onishi: And that’sprogram is kind oflike how the State housing project was, correct? Where you know like sayPuainako on theright side. Mr. Arnett: Correct. Mr. Onishi: Right, they had Ithink was aten year theyhad to stay there or ifnot if they sold itorwere either back to the State or they had some kind deal that… Mr. Arnett: Weopted to include anadditional five years due to thefact the we’ve you know the County has forty three million dollars into this project and we just didn’tfeel it fair that anybuyer beable to come inand buy atalower price and then reap ahuge windfall. Wefelt that the longer they lived inthe unit and the longer weextended the time that they lived inthe unit the better it was foreverybody because we’retrying to create acommunity where people sink roots where they don’tcome in anddoahouse andflip it. That’sjust notwhere weare. Mr. Onishi: Well maybe anoption isjust to look atrenting; that’sapossibility to get atleast people inthat homes already butthank you. Ms. Wille: Ijust want tosay Iagree with everything Council Member Onishi just stated Idon’tknow ifthere is any option to switch any ofthese things over torental and getpeople innow butI’dperhaps this is something wecould do inaseparate presentation anddiscuss that we’reat least Iand at least one other Council Member would beinterested in understanding this procedure more. 2627Pageof HCHA February 5, 2013 Mr. Arnett: Let mealso make sure that youunderstand that these homes are not built. Wehave four models that arebuilt andthe plan is to build them aseconomy ofscale so nomore no fewer than four at time andnomore than twelve atatime. Soifwe have four buyers that commit and have their deposit become non- refundable wethen begin theprocess ofbuilding four homes but theidea is that since they are not built, building homes for rental use is probably notwhere wewould like togo. Mr. Ilagan: Any further questions? None, Mr. Arnett. Atthis current time mayIhave amotion toadjourn. Mr. Kern: So moved. Mr. Onishi: Second. Mr. Ilagan: Moved byMr. Kern and second byMr. Onishi. All in favor say aye CouncilMembers: Aye. Mr. Ilagan: All oppose, sayno. Ms. Ford: No. Mr. Ilagan: Wehave one no, therest ayes. Theayes have it, we are adjourned Mr. Arnett: Thank youall very much. Ms. Ford: Miss Leithead Todd pleases. 2727Pageof