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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-03-12 Merit Appeals Board MinutesREGULAR SESSION Merit Appeals Board Hilo Council Chambers Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401 Hilo, Hawaii March 12, 2024 (Tuesday) Call to Order (Item 1) The regular meeting of the Merit Appeals Board, County of Hawaii, was called to order at 10:24 a.m. by Chair Gabriella M. Cabanas, at the Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, Hilo, Hawaii, on Tuesday, March 12, 2024. Roll Call — Present Ms. Gabriella M. Cabanas, Chair Ms. Gay Mathews, Vice -Chair Mr. Charles Kunz, Member Absent and Excused Ms. Kate De Soto, Member Mr. David A. Wiseman, Member Also Present Mr. J Yoshimoto, Assistant Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel Ms. Sommer J. Tokihiro, Director, Human Resources Department Ms. Kaila Kaaihue, Human Resources Assistant, Human Resources Department Ms. Junko Calma, Account Clerk, Human Resources Department Ms. Glynis Yamada, Secretary -Reporter, Human Resources Department Merit Appeals Board Call to Order (Item 1) March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: Good morning, the Merit Appeals Board regular meeting is called to order at 10:24 a.m. We have quorum today three Board members are present. I'm Gabriella Cabanas, Chair of the Merit Appeals Board. Along with me in the Hilo Council Chambers of the Hawaii County Building, at 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, in Hilo, Hawaii—are Ms. Gay Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning—our Vice -Chair. And Mr. Charlie Kunz. MR. KUNZ: Good morning, I'm so happy to be here. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. Also with us is our Assistant Corporation Counsel, J Yoshimoto. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: Good morning. And our Secretary -Reporter, Glynis Yamada, good morning. MS. YAMADA: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: And our Director of Human Resources, Sommer Tokihiro. Good morning, Sommer. MS. TOKIHIRO: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: And she also brought two members of the HR staff and they are Kaila Kaaihue—good morning. MS. KAAIHUE: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: And Junko Calma. Good morning, welcome. MS. CALMA: Good morning. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you for coming in to sit in on our meeting. Addendum to Agenda (Item 2) CHR. CABANAS: According to Glynis, we do not have any addendum to the agenda. Page 2 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 Statements from the Public (Item 3) CHR. CABANAS: And no "Statements from the Public" on agenda items. Approval of Minutes (Item 4) February 23, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: So, we are now on Number 4 on the agenda, "Approval of Minutes" for February 23, 2024. Board members, have you had the opportunity to review the meeting minutes? They are nodding their heads for the record. So, may I have a motion to approve the February 23rd, 2024, meeting minutes. MR. KUNZ: So moved. MS. MATHEWS: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Gay Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Kunz. MR. KUNZ: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas—aye. Three ayes. Motion carried to approve and file the February 23rd, 2024, meeting minutes. Communications (Item 5) CHR. CABANAS: We do not have any "Communications." New Business (Item 6) CHR. CABANAS: And no "New Business." I understand that the Director has requested that her reports be taken out of order. So, Board members, are you okay with that? May I have a motion for us to move her "Director's Report" up now. MR. KUNZ: So moved. Page 3 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. A second? MS. MATHEWS: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote with Ms. Gay Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Kunz. MR. KUNZ: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas—aye. Three ayes. Motion carried to take the "Director's Report" at this time. MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: March 2024; and Staff Updates CHR. CABANAS: Sommer, you have the floor to present your reports. MS. TOKIHIRO: Okay. So, Glynis provided the report to you folks for the month of March. And I did ask that Junko and Kaila join me this morning, so that— SPEAKER: hat SPEAKER: (Inaudible.) CHR. CABANAS: Her report is labeled March 2024. MS. TOKIHIRO: I think the labeling is based on when it's being presented to you yeah, sorry. But you're correct that most of the activities would have taken place in February or it means that we're off to an amazing start for March. So, I wanted to bring Kaila and Junko. Junko Calma is our newest member to our HR team. Junko is the Account Clerk in the Administrative Services Division and that division is now fully staffed. So, Kaila was the Account Clerk and then was promoted to HR Assistant—and then, Junko recently started with us in the Account Clerk position—so Kaila's doing a great job of providing training. So, I just wanted to introduce the Board to Junko and give Junko an opportunity to see who my boss is. SPEAKER: (Inaudible.) MS. TOKIHIRO: So, usually, a five -member Board panel, yeah? CHR. CABANAS: Yes, that's right. And I did forget to state that, that the two Board members—I'll do it now, if it's okay, yeah—so the two, other two Board members are absent Page 4 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 and excused today and they are David Wiseman and Kate De Soto normally, they are here. So, it's a five -Board member. You may proceed, Sommer. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. So, I just wanted all of the staff to have the opportunity to see that this is where I report the activities that Human Resources is collectively performing every month and just make sure that Junko understands, as part of the team, that this is how everyone knows what's happening in HR. So, I'm going to go ahead and excuse Kaila and Junko to return to the office, but thank you for joining me. MS. KAAIHUE: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. MS. CALMA: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Have a good work week. Bye. MS. KAAIHUL Bye. MS. CALMA: Bye. MS. TOKIHIRO: So, you folks have the March report and I'm happy to answer questions. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Mathews, do you have any questions for the Director? MS. MATHEWS: Yes—and it's trivial—but how on earth do you guys end up having to identify two poisons from your department—or am I mis-reading this? MS. TOKIHIRO: You're reading it correctly. So, one of the divisions is the Health and Safety Division. And so, through our Safety Division, they're investigating those poisons. So, part of what the Safety Division does is make sure that all the labeling on all the chemicals that we use in the County are being correctly handled. So, the Safety Division isn't doing it entirely on its own but working with the departments to do the research on, to identify new poison that doesn't contain that glyphosate. MS. MATHEWS: Okay. So, you're not having to start from scratch and it's not your department that's having to vet it—you're more blessing it at the end, after somebody else comes forward with what they think would be the most viable (inaudible). MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, looking at options MS. MATHEWS: Okay. Page 5 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MS. TOKIHIRO: —and assessing it with the departments. And then, looking at the rules and what it contains. MS. MATHEWS: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Kunz, any questions for Sommer? Sommer, I just have a few questions. For the Recruitment and Exam Division, I noticed that you started with 58 continuous recruitments—closed 15. For the 15 that closed, I'm assuming that the positions were filled. Is that a correct assumption? MS. TOKIHIRO: In some cases yes. In other cases, if the department had been referred a list, including five or more applicants, we close the continuous recruitment until the referred list was addressed by the department—meaning that the department would need to proceed with their interviews for the names that were referred. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, in other words, the selection process was in play? MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. Okay. And so, when staff closes the recruitments the continuous recruitments—are they doing some sort of analysis as to how you got a successful applicant from because the division has increased social media and other—and implemented other recruitment strategies—are they looking at why it was successful? Is there a nexus to that successful hire? MS. TOKIHIRO: So, there is an area on the application where we're asking applicants to identify for us how they learned about the opening. We do want to change that area a little bit because, right now, there's options that applicants can choose from—and because we have increased the social media presence, we're also doing—we're in our first month of a trial of using the advertising agency ZIP Recruiter—so we need to address that part of the application, so that greater detail can be provided. But, yes, that's part of our process as we evaluate if these strategies are working—is to look at the application and see where people are finding out about our openings. And this ties into one of my goals for this period, which is also re -assessing the application and looking at the job postings to make sure that we're providing other information, maybe, on the front-end about the benefits of working for the County to try and attract more applicants as well. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. I noticed Prosecutors and Police have changed theirI want to say changed—or enhanced might be a better word their recruitment strategies on Facebook because I am on Facebook as a citizen. MS. TOKIHIRO: Mm-hmm. Page 6 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: And I see their beautiful postings where they feature County employees in their postings and encouraging persons to apply for their vacancies. Is that in conjunction with your department or are they just doing it on their own? MS. TOKIHIRO: They're doing that on their own. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TOKIHIRO: So, the Prosecutor's Office—yes—and the Police Department, as you mentioned, they take—so information is posted by HR through our social media, through Facebook, InstagramI believe. And then the Prosecutor's Office does their own. And so, we re -post their information—and other departments are re -posting information that comes from HR social media as well. So, like, I know Parks and Recreation will take our HR post and then re -post them on their own social media. So, a lot of departments have they own social media to do outreach of various types. And so, we work collaboratively to share the information. CHR. CABANAS: Are you encouraging all departments to do that? MS. TOKIHIRO: We, as a department, haven't necessarily been encouraging that, but it's nice to see departments stepping up and taking that initiative to do that. I did seeMichelle, our Recruitment and Examination Manager, actually showed me thea post that the Police Department had done about the physical agility test to show exactly what is expected and required of the physical agility test to be a police recruit. And I thought that was great because it was very specific to give—it took the applicant through the route so that they could see and know what that performance standard is that they would need to meet. CHR. CABANAS: I did see that and I thought it was really well done. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Because, like you said, it shows each—and it's very—it's so enough for anyone out there who's thinking of it or who had not thought about it—and might want to give it a try. I thought it was really well done. But, perhaps, it might be a good idea to encourage all departments because, although HR is in charge of recruitment, actually, every employee in the County can be a recruiter. MS. TOKIHIRO: Absolutely. CHR. CABANAS: Every department should be recruiting for their positions to enhance the recruitment process. Page 7 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MS. TOKIHIRO: And I think also to make those connections between, say, our current County employees and highlighting the work that they're actually doing. And I think that the departments have a better opportunity to be able to highlight, "Hey, come to work for Public Works, we need engineers. This is what our engineers do" things like that. CHR. CABANAS: Does IT help the departments with it—the social media. Or it's like—are they—each department really on their own (inaudible). MS. TOKIHIRO: I believe each department—well, I believe IT can assist but the Prosecutor's Office and the Police Department have their own IT. CHR. CABANAS: Right. MS. TOKIHIRO: They don't work withI mean, they have their own IT and their own servers and things of that nature. CHR. CABANAS: Right. But other departments are smaller. So, like, if it's an agency or a smaller department—not necessarily the Big 7 -but IT would help them? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TOKIHIRO: And I've been talking to the IT Director, Rob Ewbank, about we're kind of tossing around the idea of creating a County community employee page. So, kind of, like the internet but kind of taking that idea and moving it forward to bring it, kind of, to be more current where we can highlight information about employees, share changes in policies or procedures and that's more focused on that retention aspect—developing that sense of community amongst employees. So, yeah, IT as a departmentdefinitely, wants to assist. And so yeah, they are available as a resource for our departments for things like that. CHR. CABANAS: Okay, thank you. Where are you now with the EO/ADA recruitment, `cause that's—is that open continuous? MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes. So, we initially ran the recruitment at the minimum rate of pay, as is our policy, and didn't have any eligible candidates. I believe we received several applications, but individuals did not qualify for the position. So, then, we converted it to include hire above the minimum in order to increase the pay range, and then it re -opened on a continuous recruitment. So, the recruitment efforts are ongoing, as qualified applicants are identified—because it's on continuous recruitment will be referred those names immediately. So, we'll take action on those. Page 8 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: So, who's covering that area—you? MS. TOKIHIRO: Danny. CHR. CABANAS: Oh, Danny is. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, Danny and—he was the ADA/EO Coordinator when he first came to Human Resources and he definitely, enjoys the work. So, he doesn't mind covering but, on an ongoing basis, just to make sure that all the needs are met. We're eager to fill that position. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. Any other questions. Okay—go ahead, Gay. MS. MATHEWS: I have a real brief one. So, you're saying that stuff on Facebook—does that mean you're part of a group for this because it's County -based because it's not like it's just popping up in, like, (inaudible) ads. CHR. CABANAS: Well, sometimes I'll see it and I'll join it. So, as an individual now MS. MATHEWS: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: —I'll follow the Prosecutor's page. So, you can search for them and then join in on it. Same thing for PoliceI follow Police just so that I can, kind of, keep abreast of what's going on in the County beyond our MAB meetings. I'm just doing it as an individual. And, of course, my interest is always with the County to begin with, since I've worked for the County. So, I just do that—but I like Police's approach because they also—and Prosecutor's—because they recognize their employees. And I think it's so positive. Because when you recognize the employees working there, you're validating the value of your employees but also members of the public they know that person. And then, they start commenting, "Oh, yeah, congratulations" even, like, for Fire they have "Firefighter of the Year"—and they just recognize—Aloha Exchange Club, I believe, recognize the firefighters—so there was a "Firefighter of the Year" and so forth. Just to, kind of, keep abreast. MS. MATHEWS: I'll go do that. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah, so I follow the County's post on LinkedIn. So, we have a variety of different avenues. But, yeah, I would encourage you to go and take a look and then follow so that you can see those updates. Page 9 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: Right. My only caution to everybody on the Board is, though, if you're doing it that you are aware—or being mindful that your comments should not be representing the Board, yeah—or any Board matters for that matter. Yeah, you're doing it as an individual just like I'll look it—and I might "like" something but I don't mention the Board at all or anything like that or put a value to someone's thing because we could be having those individuals come before the Board. So, we need to be mindful of all of that just a caution, yeah. MS. TOKIHIRO: And I don't actually have social media. So, yeah, I don't ever comment—but I do like to see how it appears and I will look at it from the perspective of just making sure that I'm aware and then that research as well. Because that I mean, I choose not to have social media but that really is the way that the world moves now and we want to keep up with that. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. But the only reason why I am on Facebook—so that you have that little background—was when it was time for us to post about County jobs way back when the IT director told me at that time—he said, "Oh, they wouldn't do it"so, I needed to learn how to do it. And I didn't know how to do it. So, I had to ask my family to show me how to do it, so I could come back and do it for the County as the HR Recruitment Manager back then. And that's how I got on Facebook in order to learn to do it for the County. So, I had, like, two different hats—it was personal—and then, of course, I do it for the County what I could with other assignments. So, that's how I got on Facebook, yeah. MS. TOKIHIRO: With Civil Defense—has asked for permission to be connected to the social media platforms for the different departments, so that through their Everbridge system when there's a civil defense notification not every notification but the most serious ones, they're able to put a message onto their Everbridge and it's going to be distributed by all the various department social media. So, we just recently completed that partnership with Civil Defense to get those messages out. So, I'm happy that we're able to utilize our social media to spread the word for things like that— get hatget that information immediately out to the public. CHR. CABANAS: And doesn't the Mayor have the Kahea app. or website? Because I, kind of, found it through just, kind of, scrolling one day—but it keeps you informed as a citizen about what's happening in the County yeah, it's called "Kahea"I think it's yeah, I have it on my phone called "Kahea." But, anyway, thank you for explaining about the report and answering our questions. MS. TOKIHIRO: Sure, my pleasure. Okay, well—with that, I will leave you to your business. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Thank you so much, Sommer. Page 10 Merit Appeals Board MS. TOKIHIRO: Okay but I will see you folks on April 25�' CHR. CABANAS: Yes, thank you. MS .TOKIHIRO: Thank you. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. Thanks, Sommer, have a good week. Unfinished Business (Item 7) March 12, 2024 Discussion Concerning The Appeal Process For Individuals Who File An Appeal (Note: The Above Matter Was Listed On The October 25 And December 21, 2023, And February 23, 2024, Merit Appeals Board Agendas) CHR. CABANAS: Okay, so we are now Number—we are back to Number 7, "Unfinished Business" for discussion and appropriate action. We had, at the last meeting, a lengthy discussion and we decided to defer the matter to today. And, during that time from our last meeting, Board members were asked to review what we had prepared initially—and if you had any suggestions, to tweak it a little bit, to submit it by March 5h, which we received one submittal from Ms. Mathews. So, thank you, Gay, for your submittal So, let's discuss and look—and discuss what Ms. Mathews has submitted—and thank you for doing the track changes. MS. MATHEWS: So, if I could, this is actually a rough draft of a rough draft. There's— CHR. CABANAS: That's correct. MS. MATHEWS: Yeah. What I was trying to do is get us going in a particular direction. So, I apologize for it being quite so chaotic, `cause it's difficult to read. I should have just— CHR. ust CHR. CABANAS: NoI mean, you tracked the changes. So, I understood it. MS. MATHEWS: Oh, good. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. I will pause for a few minutes so you can look at it. Let me know when you are all ready to discuss Ms. Mathews submittal. MS. MATHEWS: So, what I'd like to know is what our illustrious attorney down there is thinking in terms of where I was going with this—so we even know if we're on the right track before we start hashing at it. Page 11 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MR. YOSHIMOTO: Where I think you were going MS. MATHEWS: No, what I want to do is make sure that—because what I was trying to do was tone it down so that it was palatable for a knapsack sprayer. I know we don't have those anymore but, you know, plantation kid here. Because what I saw before was the language was more conducive for somebody that either worked in HR or was in the legal field using terms like, "appellant" and when you're—what I was trying to do is make it be something that would be a guideline. I mean, then, in a perfect world what there would be is actually a mock-up of what one would look like this is what your complaint looks like—and that kind of deal and I don't know if that's doable or not. But that's where I was starting out—was I was trying to tone it down to—at a maximum, a 7t' grade level—and make it be something where somebody doesn't take one look at it and go, "Whoa, I can't do this"—and just walk away. MR. YOSHIMOTO: So, it looks like you that's what you're trying to do—and it looks like you're doing a good job about changing the readability, right—or understand ability of the outline, right. MS. MATHEWS: Yes. MR. YOSHIMOTO: 'Cause—so, yeah—because you use a lot of "you" right, which is the "appellant" that this is mainly for the appellant even though you provide it to all the parties, right. So, I think it's good. MS. MATHEWS: I mean, and there were things that I wasn't changing that really need to be in there, like, the importance of timelines and what to do if you can't meet the timeline for some reason. Because you could have somebody that's trying to gather their documents and just can't get it in time—what could they do about those things? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah. And part of the caution for any type of outline that may be interpreted as legal advice is that I know there's a disclaimer here on the first page is that we cannot anticipate every possible motion that a party would want to bring in the hearing. When I say "motion" meaning "motion to dismiss" or a "motion to have this evidence stricken" things like that, right. So, I think the outline—and you have the Deputy AG that's going to advise you on this matter, but my perspective is yeah, just be careful in providing enough information as guidelines, guideposts—but not too much where it's limiting and they say, "Well, you didn't say it here"— right, "I thought you said... "—and this is not what we're doing, right. I understand. So yeah, so it's that fine balance and I think this your comments, your revisions they're definitely a step in the right direction. Page 12 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MR. KUNZ: I had twoa couple of quick suggestions. Thank you, Gay. I think my own, for lack of a better term naiveite of how this might be presented. In reading this, I felt like—I think I can go with this. But I understand this—about the old version but I understand, I think, what, basically, what we're trying to do and what you are trying to accomplish. I had a couple things, if we—and this is just my take on it. On the first page, that paragraph that starts with, "After the first meeting"—and after the word "location"—and it says, "Please read this letter carefully..." et cetera. Would it be okay that we include, after the word "location" the wording "as well as deadline dates..." "you need to meet for submitting your... "—instead of "Please read this letter carefully because it also will explain all the dead..." MS. MATHEWS: Yes. MR. KUNZ: So, we could remove, "Please read this letter carefully because it also will explain all the... "—and stop there and just put after "location"—"as well as deadline dates you need to meet for submitting your... "—and then explain the rest of that. CHR. CABANAS: Can you repeat that again? MR. KUNZ: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Please. MR. KUNZ: So, that paragraph that starts "After the first meeting CHR. CABANAS: Right. MR. KUNZ: where it ends at "date, time, and location CHR. CABANAS: Mm-hmm. MR. KUNZ: There could be a comma after "location" and add "as well as"—and then start from below. Strike "Please read this letter carefully because it also will explain all of the..."—strike that. And after "location"", as well as, deadline dates you need to meet for submitting your correspondence which includes... "(inaudible) like that. Does that read better? CHR. CABANAS: So, just continue on. MR. KUNZ: Yeah. MS. MATHEWS: Yes, and actually I would follow—go even further and strike the word "and" between "time and location" MR. KUNZ: Yeah, we can do that. Page 13 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MR. KUNZ: And I'm not sure if on page 2, when we're referring to—at the top, when you refer to the appellant as "you""Introduction of you, the Appellant"—and then the rest of the wording—we're using, "You will be asked... "—and then we're using the word "Identification of Appellant's issue..." versus if we're going to use "you" we might want to use "your" throughout -"you," ccyour, " And the very last bullet, I struck the, "It is now time for you, the Appellant... "—and just, we should either put, "The Appellant presents his or her case" or "You present your case" since we're using "you" in the rest of the body. MS. MATHEWS: I agreeI like "you" because we've done a good job of hooking "you" and "Appellant" up earlier. If we could just simplify it and go "you." MR. KUNZ: So, we can go, "You present your case, which may include... "—like that? CHR. CABANAS: And so, for the third bullet, "Identification of your issue... MR. KUNZ: Yes. MS. MATHEWS: Yes. CHR. CABANAS: "...and your requested remedy" MS. MATHEWS: Sure. MR. KUNZ: I think so. Yes. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. And the last bullet, "It is now time for... MR. KUNZ: "you" CHR. CABANAS: "...you to present your case..." MR. KUNZ: "your case"—correct. CHR. CABANAS: And then continue on. MR. KUNZ: And then, if you notice the last page, it goes back to the word "your"—which is good because then it's consistent from the previous page. CHR. CABANAS: Okay. So, on the last page, the first bullet, "After you have completed your presentation..."—can we delete "the Appellant" MS. MATHEWS: Yeah. Page 14 Merit Appeals Board MR. KUNZ: Yes. March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: "After you have completed your case presentation, you rest your case"? Or "you may rest your case"? MR. KUNZ: Yeah. MS. MATHEWS: Is it a "may"? MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well MS. MATHEWS: They have to, don't they? CHR. CABANAS: Well, and then there's a little definition here—"NOTE: To rest one's case means..."—and it goes on. MR. KUNZ: Yeah, so "may" is, I think, is correct. CHR. CABANAS: "...you may rest..." take out the "s""you rest your case." "After you have completed your case presentation, you" take out that other "comma"—"you may rest your case." "NOTE: To rest one's case means the party no longer has further witnesses to call or evidence to submit." MS. MATHEWS: I'm confused as to why it's "may"`cause "may" is a little ambiguous about you don't have to MR. YOSHIMOTO: Well, and then that's the gray area whereby as someone's putting on their case, I can see scenarios where they realize, "Wait, I need to call somebody else"—right. And so, even though you have a set schedule of who you want to call for that particular hearing, they may say, "Hey, Board, you know what, I just realized I need `Witness C' and I didn't call that person here. May I have a continuance to blah, blah, blah." You'll hear the arguments, the County will respond—'cause that might be a motion to continue in light of new evidence. Say, "Witness B" says, "blah, blah, blah." And the appellant says, "Wait, I didn't know that"— right—and hat"right and I need another witness, right, rather than hearsay. So, that's where yeah, I think the outline needs to be flexible, right. And so, I think "may" is better. MS. MATHEWS: Okay. MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah. MS. MATHEWS: So, then, likewise, on the second bullet we would strike the "Appellant" actually we would be striking "Appellant" any point on this page, after—because we've got it tied up pretty tightly, at the front, right. Page 15 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MR. KUNZ: Yeah. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. Right. MS. MATHEWS: Okay. MR. KUNZ: So, that second bullet could start, "You then will be given an opportunity "—or you are—take out the word "Appellant" you going take out the word "the" right. CHR. CABANAS: Yeah. Just say, "You will be given..." MR. KUNZ: Yeah. Okay. CHR. CABANAS: "an opportunity to cross-examine" MR. KUNZ: That can work. CHR. CABANAS: "cross-examine each witness." MR. KUNZ: Okay. MS. MATHEWS: Do we even need the "Each witness is sworn in prior to questioning/testifying." CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. MATHEWS: Do you think that CHR. CABANAS: Yes. MS. MATHEWS: You think that's important for them to know? CHR. CABANAS: Oh, yeah, that's important. MS. MATHEWS: Okay. MR. KUNZ: Okay, the rest looks really good. Okay. Thank you, Gay. CHR. CABANAS: We still need to have the Deputy Attorney General review those, yeah, before we finalize it. MS. MATHEWS: Would you like me to clean this up and submit it back to Glynis so that we don't have all the—so it's easier to read? Page 16 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 CHR. CABANAS: I think the best protocol—because this is Board action, we need to vote on it, yeah to have a final draft, so I would recommend that. And I would need a motion, as the Chair, for us to have our Secretary -Reporter finalize this as we discussed this morning—into a final draft that we will send—she will send for the Board to the Deputy Attorney General, who will now be—as we were informed this morning by Amanda, our current Deputy Attorney General that we will now have a new Deputy Attorney General, Richard Thomason. So, is that okay—Glynis is shaking her head as far as the protocol. So, may I have a motion for us to do that, please—and a second. MS. MATHEWS: So moved. CHR. CABANAS: Thank you. MR. KUNZ: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Any discussion? MR. KUNZ: One point CHR. CABANAS: Go ahead. MR. KUNZ: When it is in a final draft, we will still have one more chance for a review, correct? CHR. CABANAS: Yes, that's correct. So, the procedure will be—Glynis will—and that was the motion, we still have to vote on—we're in discussion now. But Glynis having our discussion on record, she will finalize the document into a final draft to be reviewed by our Deputy Attorney General. After that person reviews it and submits any comments or gives us the okay to proceed, then she will then have it—we will place it on the agenda for the next meeting so that the Board can vote on finalizing this draft. Okay, so, I'm going to start a rollcall vote on the motion that was made, yeah? So, I'll start with Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Kunz. MR. KUNZ: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas—aye. Three ayes. Motion carried to have our Secretary -Reporter incorporate the changes that we made earlier today, into the submittal of Ms. Mathews, and create a final draft for the review of our Deputy Attorney General. Okay. Page 17 Merit Appeals Board Director's Report (Item 8) MAB Monthly Divisional Activity Report: March 2024; and Staff Updates (Previously taken out of order.) Announcements (Item 9) CHR. CABANAS: So, going to our agenda, are there any "Announcements." Schedule Next Meeting Date (Item 10) March 12, 2024 The Merit Appeals Board Will Convene Its Next Meeting On Thursday, April 25, 2024, At 10:00 A.M. At The Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, Hilo, HI 96720 CHR. CABANAS: If not, I need a motion tooh, no, I don't need a motion to schedule the next meeting date—it's already scheduled for Thursday, April 25, 2024, at 10 a.m. at the Hilo Council Chambers of the Hawaii County Building, at 25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, in Hilo, Hawaii. MR. KUNZ: Was that at 10 a.m.? CHR. CABANAS: Yes, it's a 10 a.m. Okay, we may have a hearing also that day as part of our meeting, yeah. So, it might be a long day just to give you a heads up. Adiournment (Item 11) CHR. CABANAS: May I have a motion to adjourn today's meeting, please? MS. MATHEWS: Before we do that— CHR. hat CHR. CABANAS: Oh, yes? MS. MATHEWS: I have one other point. Our title is "Fact Sheet for Appeal Hearing Process"—does "Fact Sheet" make it sound—should we strike the word "Fact Sheet" and just say "Appeal Hearing Process" so it doesn't sound like we're please, Mr. Attorney. MR. YOSHIMOTO: We would need to put that back on the floor for discussion. We closed that out, unfortunately. But that— SPEAKER: hat SPEAKER: (Inaudible.) MR. YOSHIMOTO: Yeah. Page 18 Merit Appeals Board March 12, 2024 MS. MATHEWS: In that case, I move that we adjourn. CHR. CABANAS: Is there a second? MR. KUNZ: Second. CHR. CABANAS: Any discussion? If not, I'll start a rollcall vote to adjourn with Ms. Mathews. MS. MATHEWS: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Mr. Kunz. MR. KUNZ: Aye. CHR. CABANAS: Ms. Cabanas—aye. Three ayes. Motion carried to adjourn today's meeting at 11:05 a.m. Thank you, everyone. Have a good week. Respectfully submitted, 14,1610ifktlitaijil) Glynis Yamada, Secretary-Reporter APPROVED: J144/1(.01.. Al .eat/411a fr- Gabriella M. Cabanas, Chair Merit Appeals Board Page 19