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Home My WebLink AboutGMAC 5.21.24 Minutes Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawai’i Minutes Meeting Date: May 21, 2024 Time: 9:00 am to 11:00 pm Place: Zoom and In-Person 25 Aupuni Ctr., Ste. #1501, Hilo HI LT: All right. Mai ka’i, aloha kakou. I’d just like to call this meeting to order. The meeting of the Game Management Advisory Commission will now come to order today – it’s Tuesday, May 21, 2024. Ah right now it’s 9:10a. This meeting is being held at the Puna Conference Room in the County building in Hilo and on Zoom. I’d like to introduce each of the Commissioners and take roll call. 1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: District 1 - Robert Duerr, Present, In person District 2 – Ralph Palikapu Dedman, Present, in person District 3 – Rhon Leomana Turalde, Present, in person District 4 – Brian Ley – Present, in person District 5 - Vacant District 6 – Vacant District 7 – Natalie Reynolds, Present, Excused District 8 – Cortney Okumura – Present via Zoom District 9 – Justin Ackerman – Present via Zoom Quorum Established with 6 in attendance and 1 excused. STAFF: Sylvia Wan, Deputy Attorney, Corporation Counsel – in person Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist – Excused Alexy Katko, Executive Assistant – Tech set-up LT: Some housekeeping rules, please make sure your cell phones are turned off and on silent mode to all of us who are attending here in person – please remember to speak into the microphone out loud so your statements can be recorded under HRS. 92-3 the Sunshine Law – GMAC may remove a person who is willfully disrupting any meeting to prevent or compromise the conduct of the meeting, all testimony both in person, if you would like to testify please fill out the public statement registration form over at the end of the table – for the people on Zoom – if you would like to testify on any agenda item please provide your name and identify which item you would like to testify in the Chat, questions from the public – we don’t really take questions from the public but, I can adopt the questions in the end. Please note that your questions may not be answered. The Zoom Chat is not recorded and not a part of the meeting’s minutes. The Zoom Chat is not for 1 testimony or discussion. You will be recognized when it is time for you to submit your testimony. All GMAC members are reminded that they will be recognized at the appropriate times for questions and discussions. Thank you. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: April 16, 2024 Action: C. Okumura made a motion to approve the minutes of April 16, 2024. Seconded by B. Ley. Motion carried by voice poll vote with 6 ayes, no nays and 1 excused. 3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS: LT: Any statements from the public. SW: Nobody signed up for in-person statements from the public. There is a written statement as far as 6a, which has been provided to the members that can be reviewed on in between if you’d like. LT: OK. We can review that – so we’re gonna just move forward. We have one private citizen from the public who wishes to submit testimony. SW: What’s your agenda item? ?: Not really on the agenda item but just a statement from the public about the Volcano Transfer Station – they didn’t put the boulders back to the front of the transfer station \[unclear\]. LT: And – I saw that then the fence also got bent little bit, yeah? ?: Well, the fence is kinda old… LT: Ok. ?: ….whatever, but that was pretty much their reasoning of moving the boulders, you know, keep moving them back and forth for the vandalism but they didn’t repair the vandalism fence the first time and then they moved the boulders back to the front. LT: Well, if there’s anything we can do that can change that – what is the top three things that we can… SW: We, you are so off the agenda. You can take his testimony… 2 LT: OK. Yeah. Thank you for that statement. I’m actually gonna switch around so we can go to our presentations first and then after we can do our Commissioner Reports by District. Do we need to take a vote on that? SW: No. That’s your discretion as Chair. 4. COMMISSIONER REPORT BY DISTRICT: 5. PRESENTATION: a. County Council Member Ashley Kierkiewicz, Over-Population of Pigs in Lower Puna: Discussion of Four-Point Plan Proposal. LT: OK. Thank you. This morning we have County Council Member Ashley Kierkiewicz, who came to share her plan for lowering the pig population in her district of Puna. Aloha, Ashley. Thank you for speaking today. AK: \[Unclear, council\] SW: No, we’re not as formal as Council. AK: Well, thanks for the \[unclear\]. I was actually with Bob Duerr in separate meeting and he was talking about feral pigs and I let him know, hey, I’ve been working the Community Partners and Research & Development to come up with what is now known as the Five-Point Plan for dealing with the feral pig population actually on Hawaii Island not just lower Puna, although I do want to credit Amedeo Markoff and Eileen O’Hara with Malama o Puna – they received a small grant from Research & Development last year to build a pig ring, which traps pigs and they have been harvesting that local meat to fed local families so, I was invited to attend a feral pig sort of conversation in Hawaiian Shores back in April. I had no idea I’d be on the panel but folks were curious about how the County could provide support in this arena and after a really robust conversation with the community members, and chatting with Research & Development to see is there funding available to actually do something about this issue. They said, yes, and so the Five-Point Plan was created. High level overview: Point 1 is to purchase and distribute traps around the Island; Second Point is pilot carcass breakdown using the black soldier fly; Third Point is to test value-added products development; Fourth Point is the development of a processing facility’s plan; and the Fifth is to test sperm disruption solutions and to study that. So the first we would be procuring a series of traps – locally produced if possible – and then work with State, Federal partners, members of this Commission to identify where we should stage these traps and, partner with local hunters to determine how many pigs are being trapped by each of these devices so that we can begin to build a data set around how big this problem is around Hawaii Island. We want to collaborate with local hunters so that we can essentially start the process – these capture pigs, and one way around the Department of Health requirements for processing pigs in a, you know, certified kitchen processing facility is to do something that they’re doing on Kauai right now, which is to set-up a meat club – so folks would be members of a club and they are taking this feral pig meat at their own risk – but what we could do is partner 3 with local food pantries resilience hubs – anybody that wants to be part of the meat club – once these pigs are trapped and processed we could come up with some kind of distribution so as to get that meat to folks who are interested in it. Any questions about that particular point? And the point of this was to also get mana’o from the Commission as well. My hope is that we can really establish a partnership between whoever is going to be executing this project and doing the studies and making sure that there is a presence on/in every district around Hawaii Island ‘cause I don’t think that the feral pig problem is just the lower Puna problem. I know that folks are seeing this all over the place. Any questions about trapping? SW: So, I’ll just note that these are questions from the Commissioners. If any members of the public have a question, you can write it on the comment cards provided \[unclear\]. BL: Brian, District – 4. Yes, I’ve, we’ve been over this with the trapping things we’ve discussed how it intelligent pigs are and these new traps they work wonderful at the beginning – then you talk to Abraham and myself and everything else – these pigs figure out the traps. You’re gonna have a high success rate at the very beginning but once these pigs figure it out that’s gonna go down. I’ve had traps and the pigs just walk around it for weeks at a time and not do anything, so, we got to remember we’re dealing with intelligent animals, and like I said, just as before we need to revoke the snare ban that we did eleven years ago which was the beginning of the pig problem – ‘cause pigs don’t seem to figure out the snares – they’re used to walking through the jungle and, snares have a very high success rate. I know we get some dogs, but they’re supposed to be on leashes anyways and we getting a lot of, you know, I get a lot of reports of dogs being killed by pigs. I have a friend whose dog is constantly being torn of and waiting for the day it doesn’t come back from the pigs, so… That’s just my opinion on traps, I mean, the short-term solution and it works for the younger pigs, but, you know, they eventually figure it out. AK: Thank you. I am not expert on pigs in my community and issues – I’m trying to be helpful and come up with solutions and so I really appreciate your folks’ feedback and if you have other ideas on how we can make \[unclear\] to – what they’re looking to do \[unclear\]. The second point was actually something that was suggested by our agricultural specialist in Research & Development – Glenn Sako – he talked about the Black Soldier Fly as being a potential solution to helping to break down the pig carcass after it’s been processed and so what we would like to do is identify these three Community Partners that are willing to host these specialized tubs where the carcass is then transferred to and then the Black Soldier Fly begins to eat the carcass and it’s larvae is apparently protein rich and can be used as animal feed and so ironically that would be used to support the growth of domesticated pigs. But, again, that is a potential option to just investigate as protein rich animal feed as part of this project we would monitor the decomposition process – I don’t know if this has been done on a large scale that’s why measure the yield of the larvae and then evaluate the quality of this as an animal feed and all of this we would be, of course, documenting and determining if this is something feasible that we would want to scale. Is anyone familiar with this? LT: Yeah, um, Leomana – District 3 – when I was working as a teacher down at Kua o Ka Lau before the lava flow took over. The soldier fly project we had all of our excess food waste from the school going to a small-scale solider fly project and the reason the soldier flies work is because they don’t have a mouth. They don’t eat once they become air borne – they have about 10 days until they die and all they do is lay the larvae and then fly around and kill all the other flies. So, 4 the solider flies eat, they lay the larvae inside of their food and then all they do is – that’s why they’re called Soldier Flies, yeah? They fly around and they kill flies, they kill anything in the vicinity that would eat the babies and then we put up this trap thing and we used it for chicken feed and to feed the ducks and we’d mix that with the duck weed from the pond – that floating algae of the pond and that was like a real healthy food for all the animals that we farmed. So this is a kinda interesting idea but on a large scale I don’t know if it can handle, like tens or twenty pigs at a time is a lot. SW: When you’re talking about this are you talking about a closed system – like it would happen within an enclosed container? AK: There’s, these specialized tubs – ‘cause I was mentioning we would need to procure in order to do this project. I don’t know if it’s an enclosed system. SW: I’m just asking because he was talking about how the feature of the Black Soldier Fly is to… LT: Fly around and protect… SW: Yeah, fly around and protect and basically get rid of other things that might be in the environment so that’s why I was asking. LT: Yeah, the way we did it was set it up inside of a – you know, like we’d cut a big tube in half and made a grow bed with a cover and we’d put food and go back and forth and the Soldier Flies the larvae would just eat whatever we put in, you know, trees, branches, food, cardboard mostly – they love newspaper – and then we’d have to work ‘em inside and then larvae would climb out of this tube in to a bucket and so it has to be a closed system, um, because if it’s exposed to the wild, you know, more the wild animals are gonna come in and disrupt the plan, so… SW: Chair, Cortney has a… LT: Ah, yes, Miss Cortney Okumura… CO: I just watched a demonstration on a smaller scale of this last week and, just adding to this benefits of their – apparently, they can’t carry diseases because of their lack of a mouth like you were saying so that makes them another benefit is that they can’t carry disease between waste and foods and makes them safe as a feed for animals and they’re very rich in protein and fat, yeah, it was an excellent presentation and it looks like a really great solution for making a sustainable food source for animals on our Island and a safe one at that, so, yeah, cool, carry on. I’m very interested. LT: Mahalo. BL: Brian, District – 4. Is there any way we can expand this statewide like the County drop offs – I know a lot of – mainland we have tallow companies – that we’d have the same thing where we have a place where people can take these animal carcasses and dump ‘em so they’re not dumping them in people’s yards and creating issues that – I know in Puna it’s a big problem that the hunters will just take the choice cuts of meat and just dump the body in some residential area cause of the… 5 ?: \[Unclear\] BL: …. you know, lava rock is hard to dig a hole to bury these things, I mean, you’re not supposed take \[unclear\] so if we’re talking about solutions maybe if we can think about, you know, where all these places we already have a county dump – if we had like a tallow thing where people could drop off animal waste. I know people would be dumping dogs and stuff and be a nightmare, you know, it’s kind of \[unclear\]. Soldiers fly large-scale operation kind of thing where we could do that and help the neighborhoods keep the nuisance flies under control. AK: So, I’m gonna assume that any time we see a dead animal on the side of the road and that’s being removed by Public Works or State Highways… BL: Yeah, remove it – if you’re lucky they’ll dump some dirt on it. AK: So, I don’t see patches of dirt on the side on Highway 130, um, somebody is removing them. I’m curious to know where they go and if it’s just being dumped… BL: Just to the dump… SW: It would be Public Works. AK: It would be Public Works. So, I think a conversation with DEM would be – cause they’d be a site that is willing to pilot this project. The question is I don’t know – I have to pose the question because what we’re asking folks to do here would go beyond the general scope of work of our transfer station employees, um, the work that we’re talking about is working as volunteers and folks that have a willingness to do this on their private property. I’d like to involve the University and Hawaii Community College as much as they would like to participate but I think before we can even can get to this level of like Island-wide – everybody bring your carcass – we have to demonstrate proof of concept that hey – this idea is something that folks can get behind and then then there’s a seamless process for getting carcass to the tubs, larvae to folks that need the animal feed and the point of this Plan is to develop, I think, proof of concept and feasibility in these ideas and to determine how much capital and infrastructure is needed to really scale things up. LT: Yes. AK: OK. LT: OK. Thank you. AK: I’d like to take a thoughtful and methodical approach before going too big, ah, because if we do then we run the risk of not being successful and burning folks out. OK. Point 3, which I’m really excited about is a collaboration with local chefs and our culinary program at HCP. Bob was mentioning that he brought this project up to the butcher shop in Waimea and I think a lot of local chefs would be really interested in working with us to develop a series of recipes of how we might utilize wild pig meat, ah, we can include these recipe cards in our meat club 6 distribution compile it into a recipe book so that folks know how to prepare these dishes. We also want to experiment with the value-added product market. One of the ideas that I had way back in the day – I want to say my first or second year in office was to do a smoked meat festival, um, and this was because R & D was granting $17,000.00 to the Hawaii Community College for butchery certification program and I thought, oh, take population, butchery – what would we like to do with pig meat. I don’t know about you guys but I love smoked meat and sausage and so I think that there is potentially more that can be done with this so would like to give the culinary program and our little book would be an opportunity to come up with some innovative value \[unclear\] ideas, create samples, do tasting events and see if there is a real market for us to be exporting this and then we also want to understand – with a lot of our local vet animal food producers to see if they have a desire to incorporate any of this feral pig meat into their recipes for animal feed. Any comments? BL: Brian, District – 4. Oh, go ahead… RD: Ah, Bob, District – 1. Yeah, Ashley, there were a few years ago – maybe over 10 years – that there were Chinese people on Island who were looking at the ability to get wild pig and why they were really interested is because the pig had no chemicals. And that’s very unusual in China and so they thought that it would have a niche market and they were interested. BL: Brian, District – 4. Other states and countries have already done that. Texas is one that sells wild-caught meat at a premium price – I think their wild-caught pork was like $15.00 a pound and I know in Australia there’s a big market in the European market for wild boar cause they’re not American – they like flavor to their meat and I know Australia does a lot exporting of wild- boar meat to the European market and stuff like that so it is a feasible market and being done in a lot of local restaurants will actually showcase, you know, local axis deer or wild pork or some of the other animals that we have with us \[unclear\]. AK: Yeah… BL: It’s been done in the past. AK: I think about what Maui is doing to really market venison so, I mean, I just see tremendous opportunity for us to \[unclear\] appreciate \[unclear\] Hawaii Island boar. ?: Any questions any comments? AK: \[Unclear\] ?: \[Unclear\] any comments – just write it down. SW: Well, that’s at the discretion of the Chair. ?: \[Unclear\] LT: When, ah… SW: Oh, whenever you… 7 LT: \[clear\] SW: No, it’s up to you Chair. If you think it’s an appropriate question you can decide to take the floor if there’s no one else… LT: OK. I’m \[unclear\]. Um, I just had one question, um, going back to the pig traps – we just wanted to know what is the average cost of the trap – maybe you found that out, what funding exists for traps or, or aid right now? How many traps do you expect to get or expect to buy, um, and how do individuals or groups in these areas apply for these traps. AK: Those are great questions, the traps on the market go for $800-$900 dollars. So they’re definitely not cheap – they cost a pretty penny – we would want to do a very comprehensive marketing campaign to make a number of traps available but there has to be some kind of kuleana attached to it where it’s not just your personal trap, to trap the pigs in your yard, like this needs to be, I think, something that is shared amongst a neighborhood and a community. The total budget for every single point of this Plan is $125,000 and so Research & Development is going to help us make a determination on how much should be spent on each of these different points, I, you know, as a council member also have contingency money available and would be willing to help kind of this go a little bit further and provide some funding for additional traps – folks can encourage their council members to do the same – I’d also like to see if there’s discretionary funding either through local foundations. I think it’s a little bit harder for the state’s unlock some money but the whole idea is to try to get something off the ground. I hope I answered all your questions. BL: Brian, District – 4. I floated ideas several years ago during a campaign that we should in corporate the trade schools – the welding classes in the schools and get the students involved to cut down the cost and then, you know, community pride and stuff like that and we could probably get a lot of local people to donate the materials for the schools for practice welding. AK: I like that idea of working with our student welders – to be able help build some of the traps. Thank you. LT: Sorry, I was just thinking about who’s the shop teachers at Keaau High School ‘cause I took shop and auto mechanics welding over there Jun Pagala is the teacher’s name. But we did stuff like that, you know, when Keaau first came up in 2002 and 2003 – most of the auto shops – the fence on the outside the buildings where all students build – me and my friends stayed after school and he just taught us how to do that, so… That’s kinda like an after-school program for free. AK: I mean it, you know, again, this is not my contract to execute. I kind of paint the vision and other folks run with it but I could encourage the – like community building of these traps at school sites/facilities where welding is possible and there could be community building – I think that’s a great idea. RD: Now, ah, Bob, District – 1. Ashley, in normal states… AK: Are we not normal here? 8 RD: We’re not. AK: We’re not. RD: We’re not because essentially DLNR – the land leasing division – off shoots – game resources to DOFAW. Most states, if not all states, have a game management plan where the division of wildlife takes – recognizes an animal as a resource for the citizens of that state – a state resource. We do not do that in Hawaii and so – but the point is that there’s matching grants from Hunter Trust Fund monies and it would just essentially go to 25% of a state putting in money to 75% to the federal Department of the Interior putting in money. And so essentially the state is not the only person who can apply for those – the County can apply but also a non- profit. So essentially looking at your taking interest in the pig and understanding how the pig can properly be used is a quest – is a concept that is not within the state. And so, there’s an opportunity to take that $125,000 and to leverage it. AK: What’s the plan after this project is completed. I think a comprehensive report will be ready at the end of 18 months but I think that there are different aspects of the 5-Point Plan that will be done sooner and the whole intention is to, again, once the established proof of concept and identify – OK – this is how we scale up in what’s needed – we would then be able to approach Jill Tokuda, Brian Schatz – the congressional delegation – and ask for a direct allocation to continue this work. There’s also different federal and state grants available. RD: Right… AK: \[Unclear\] but I don’t feel ready to ask without having something to show for it – what we’ve done and what we plan to do. RD: Ashley – Duerr, District – 1, what might be a good thing is because this Commission is tasked with keeping state, federal and local officials informed. So, if they are informed of a proof of concept… AK: OK. RD: …. they’re on board from the beginning. AK: OK. RD: Yeah. AK: Perfect. And we can, I can send you information if you folks want to draft a letter to representatives in the state and federal side to let them know this is some of the work that we are doing on the County side – be on the lookout for more information but also keep your ears aground if funding opportunities present themselves. LT: One more comment from someone who used to a Commissioner representing District – 5 – Abraham Antonio. A private individual to comment on agenda item 5A. 9 AA: Ah, yeah, you guys get some great comments that you guys came up with that at that meeting, um, number one is the trapping, um, giving ‘em out to just anybody – that becomes a danger in reality. And, cause, I’m a trapper, you guys all know that I trap pigs – I’m up to over 100 pigs just to rate it this year. Every pig is different. On social media there’s more and more people saying that, ay, call me up. I catch these pigs. But the state or the County does not certify anybody as a certified trapper. Even me, I don’t really call myself as a trapper, but I can do it and I do it in a safe manner. I’ve been doing it for about seven/ten years now. I’m lucky I didn’t lose any limbs, didn’t get stabbed by one then I do it with kids, right, so I use them. Brian is also a trapper, but, you know, there’s no certification that’s saying that Brian is a trapper. I know about five other trappers and \[unclear\] one of ‘em too – we pretty much do it as safely as we can. Now if you go – depends on what neighborhood you’re in. You cannot even dispatch it by shooting it ‘cause then you can break laws and you can get arrested, right, because Hawaii just has some strict laws. So just dispersing the traps out to just anybody that’s – I say that’s unsafe. You really got to know what you’re doing, how you’re doing it and then, you know, take ‘em either alive/dead. If you’re going to take it dead how you going kill ‘em? Because if that’s your pig that you say you’re feeding even though it’s a wild animal and now your neighbor caught ‘em and then your neighbor going have me come in and shoot ‘em or whatever – whichever means I use to dispatch this animal – now you open myself up to getting arrested and everything like that – so it’s looking out for the next person, right, the next trapper, the next hunter, the next poacher or the next gatherer – whoever in you guys choosing to take these animals out from the traps. It’s a great idea – don’t get me wrong – but who’s gonna protect that person? Right? And if you’re not certified and you’re not doing it the right way if, if that person gets hurt now that person can go back and sue the property owner, yeah, so, in that part just be careful – I say to be careful with that – that opens up a lot of can of worms. AK: Sir a really good point. I, again, I’m coming to the GMAC and wanting to engage the experts so that we can build a responsible program that works, where folks are safe, where no one’s getting hurt and so because we don’t have a certified pig trapper program why don’t we come up with one? BL: \[Unclear\] idea? AK: Right? And I would want to make sure that anybody that is part of this project getting a trap and then being given the kuleana of to remove the pig from the trap – is meeting their minimum requirements so that I can feel good and we can all feel good about folks that we are deploying out to be part of this project. Cause it just takes one mistake… AA: Yeah. AK: ….to ruin it for all. And so that was the point of the conversation was to get feedback like this so that we could architect something that works and keeps communities safe and also addressed the problem. SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. So, I’m just going to note for the record as far as developing a program like that – you would have to get state entities involved – most likely the Department of Health as well as DLNR as well as whoever is actually governing… AA: Abraham, ah, again, me and Brian already discussed that with DLNR. 10 SW: Yeah. AA: They’re not in support of it – they don’t want the liability of that of a trapping program or I’ve, we’ve reached out to others… AK: But they did once before – they have provided funding years ago – the state did – DLNR did – where they had a program – they were working with local hunters. It was very successful – they never re-upped the funding for that program. AA: Well, maybe that’s why they didn’t want re-live, but basically, they said that they didn’t want to take the liability. AK: Is there anything that… AA: There’s, there’s some traps that they leased out that, you know, they kinda give out to the… AK: I have a question for the Corporation Counsel. Um, on the certification piece, is there anything that the County can do say through R & D that says in order to participate in this program we need you to meet a, b, c criteria. SW: So presently that’s kind of outside of – I can talk to R & D to see if that’s something that they could encompass within the scope of their department. But presently, the biggest hurdle with the County has is that the entities that govern most of game management issues are actually state entities. Like the – we have very few entities that even deal with even just the land – like we have Parks & Rec within the County but, again, Parks & Rec doesn’t deal with hunting and gathering and all of that it’s more the state levels, so even if R & D was to do something like that, um, they would probably still partner with the state. That’s… AK: So, somebody’s finding a loophole on Kauai because they’re doing everything that I’ve described here… SW: I’m not saying… AK: …. without any kind of certification from the state and they’ve been doing it for years, no one’s gotten hurt, no one’s gotten sick. So, I want to do things pono, right, I want to make sure that we are laying a really solid foundation for all of this good work… SW: Um-hum… AK: Um, and so maybe we should talk story with friends on Kauai to understand their process. That way it’s easier to get what we are looking to do here off the ground. But I like the idea of working with folks that we can trust and are responsible – to trap and harvest. SW: So, it might be a combination of efforts between R & D, Parks & Rec as well as the state. Just to make sure… AK: Why would do it with Parks, sorry… 11 SW: Because they’re the ones that have to deal with – if there’s any hunting grounds within the County – it would be through Parks. I’m just saying if you – GMAC is a county entity and if we’re looking at setting up a County, um, you’re talking about like a certification program – Parks & Rec is the one that deals with like our local, ah, activities out in the wild. So, they deal with archery, they deal with, um… AK: On County… SW: Yes, on County property. So that’s the reason why I would say you might want to loop them in as well, anyway, these are just ideas, I’m not trying to – how do I say this – I don’t think this would be answered today. AK: Yeah. SW: I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m just saying it’s more than oh, just go here. And I do agree like talking to Kauai would probably be a good idea, just to see how they did it. Our structure might be different than their structure but that doesn’t mean that they’re \[unclear\]. AK: Yeah, and, and the Kauai folks – it’s just a private entity. It’s not anything related to the government. SW: Well, that’s a whole different ball of wax. AK: Um-hum. But, again, this – what we’re looking to do here would be contracted out to someone in the community. So, there are similarities for Kauai and whoever is awarded those contracts. But I’d like to think beyond this contract and how we might kind of cement successful activities within County infrastructure. So, who knows – a position just related to game management. It’s something we might want to pursue next budget cycle after this report is done. Maybe even a division within \[unclear\] or R & D. But I think we need to get through some plan like this to showcase, hey, there is a plan or having someone on staff to oversee these kind of activities. RD: Duerr, District – 1, essentially the state recognized with the largest wild pig population is Texas and they have active management and an active control systems. There’s also the National Wild Pig Task Force. So, they would be good coming from Hawaii, you know, point of view and then getting input from people who deal with the national level and then from the Texas level. Florida also has a active game management. So, a couple of – so putting together a specification, going to a scope and a sequence of events and then not jumping the cart before the horse on this. I think you’re going and I think you’re going in the right direction. AK: Abraham, did you have any other mana’o, I’m sorry... Maybe just some comments… AA: Yes. AK: Would you be interested in helping us to kind of determine, you know, just baseline criteria skills that a hunter should have in order to participate in our trapping and harvesting program? AA: Yeah, just reach out to me. 12 AK: OK. Perfect. AA: \[Unclear\] Other than that – how safe is the Black Fly? I know there’s this community down in Kalapana that they’re actually doing it from what I understand. I didn’t go out and look at that place that they’re doing it at, but they do take the wild carcasses that the wild pigs come into their property, and they do put it in a container and da kine but, you know, with brucellosis and pseudo rabies around, you know, what’s, you know, that would be my question, right? Kind of even though you guys said, they don’t have mouth and you can’t transfer the diseases but it’s still a transfer, um, then going back to what you said about \[unclear\] or whatever then we had that – what was that, yeah, HogStop, which is, you know lower the semen count inside of the pigs and stuff like that but yet if use that kind of things then, you know, the birds going come around and that’s what Hawaii protects the most, right, is the birds is what they really care about. Um, when the birds come and eat that then the sperm count for the birds can go down, you know, from our owls, not just our native species and whatever else, so there’s that. And then, as far as what you’re saying about the deer and pigs – it goes back to deer has the wild tick disease but I think that’s stressing Lyme disease \[unclear\]…so I don’t think there’s any of that here. I’m not sure but here/here is more healthier species and less diseases, now when you go back to the pigs now back again you get brucellosis, and you get pseudo rabies. There’s no real way to say what pig get, right. I was, we used to be noted in the Tribune Herald like, oh, you trapping, can you tell? No, there’s no way. You can tell by looking on a pig – you get one sick pig or you can get – is that a sick pig or is that a pig that just not eating well, right? So how can you tell without taking blood samples now I’ve been working with Kim Kazuma – Department of Health, no? SW: Probably, I can’t remember. ?: University Department of Health, yeah. AA: I take blood samples from the pigs and some going get both pseudo rabies and brucellosis. Some of them just get brucellosis, some of them just get pseudo rabies. Some come out clean, but there’s no real way to tell what it is. AK: So do you just chuck the meat that has brucellosis. AA: Well, like I said in… AK: Or is there a way to cook it at a high enough temperature… AA: Yeah. AK: …. for a certain amount of time. AA: And it’s documented and that’s what she said as well – as long as you use proper PP so that’s where it comes \[unclear\] in being educated. You know, you just use your normal gloves – rubber gloves, you know, wash your hands, all that, you know, that’s how we practice, so as long as, you know, I try to tell everybody that I know, you know, to do it and some listen and some people don’t, right, but there’s no real way to tell these diseases, right? 13 th AK: Yeah, so when I was in Hawaiian Shores for that event on April 20 they talked about – there were state DLNR folks there and USDA… AA: Um-hum. AK: There are very few folks that are actually doing the blood testing here on our Island and the sad fact is it’s actually like a two-week turnaround time to get any results so we definitely want to make sure our Island is represented in their data count so I think that this project can help to contribute to that but I also want to understand how can you test more rapidly and what will it take to set up that infrastructure on this Island. AA: Abraham. So per what they said is they need more funding to get more employees to get more time – they’re not properly staffed, right? There’s also a person out in Waimea, I forget his name, um, that he catches the pigs and then isolates them or quarantines them – does the samples – and then he actually had a wild boar restaurant out in Waimea and that’s pretty much how he was getting from this one particular guy. Made sure it was all clean and then sold the meat to that one particular restaurant. AK: See. There’s a market for it, you guys. AA: Four, Point 4. th AK: Yeah, OK. Couple more points and thank you for your feedback. Um, the 4 Point is going to be a feasibility study to identify suitable locations for processing facilities and this is gonna be based off of again Points 1, 2 and 3. The trapping program, the carcass breakdown and then culinary value-added product development. We would want to identify what equipment personnel and infrastructure needed and what it would cost to establish and operate these facilities. We would want to identify who can, who would benefit from these facilities and then convene a meeting with various partners to determine who has interest, um, and ensure that there’s participation from state and federal partners. My understanding is that there’s an under- utilized mobile fire house on our Island that needs to be acquired. It is currently using in West Hawaii. I wanted to chat with Chad Hasegawa as part of this project to just understand. I think I know what the obstacle is but I want to hear from him what the obstacles are, but say, hey, can we borrow the slaughterhouse for certain portions of our project, especially when it comes to the trapping and the harvesting. But it sounds like there’s a real need, right, to be, um to being something positive with the feral pigs. The last point of this Plan was something that one of our community partners at Malama o Puna – had recommended and that was to work with large landowners as well as \[unclear, sounds like Bass\] folks like DLNR, Natural Resources Conservation Services and \[unclear\]. And, again, work with large landowners to test sperm disruptors – not just HogStop – and we want everything to be fully closed and contained but at the event in Hawaiian Beaches one woman had mentioned cotton seed as sort of like a natural birth control sperm disruptor. I see Abraham shaking his head again, um, are they the same thing? They are? OK. So HogStop is not a chemical? BL: It’s cotton seed oil with some other inert ingredients. AK: OK. 14 BL: But the main ingredient is cotton seed oil. AK: Has anybody studied this? ?: \[Unclear\] AK: Who has studied it? To make a determination that it does or doesn’t work and it impacts other animals? BL: Brian, District – 4. You know, they did the studies but like the feasibility like we were talking earlier, you know, these pigs live eight to ten years. You have to constantly feed the pigs for the duration of their lives and it only works for the pigs that are eating it so when a sow comes in to heat – all the pigs - is a pig knocking down a fence or coming in and we’ve got all the sows impregnated again, you know, it sounds good on paper but in the reality of the situation it’s – we don’t want the pigs and it’s setting up a feeding station and trapping the pigs in a certain area and feeding them until they die of old age is just not really feasible. AK: Hopefully, they get trapped to make \[unclear\] dinner before then. Um, is there… BL: \[Unclear\] why would you be doing that for our people that are eating \[unclear\]. AK: That’s why I’m asking – was there a study that was done with the feral pig population and cotton seed \[unclear\]. RD: Ah, Duerr, District – 1. HogStop was developed in Texas by a PhD who was involved in the dairy feed market. And so it’s basically a son and a father who developed it. Good question on – if there are studies on it. BL: \[Unclear\] LT: I had a question, is there any legislation around the GMAC or any legislation about banning the public feeding of pigs, especially around the highways and the roads like in Komohana and Mohouli, you know, the intersection? AK: Well, I see that auntie feeding those pigs there. A number \[unclear\]. LT: Sorry, I \[unclear\]. SM: \[Unclear\] thank you so much for allowing that – Shannon Matson – legislative assistant – Council District 2… SW: Sorry, just clarification – are you speaking in your personal capacity or in your legislative assistant capacity? SM: Ah, I’m going to speak in the legislative assistant capacity. SW: Thank you. 15 SM: We were trying to address that \[unclear\] and it’s a crime on like right near state highways so it’s harder for the County to \[unclear\] will be discovered that there is no legislation that we can find at the County or state level, um, regarding public feeding of wild animals and it does exist in the national parks – there’s bans on that and there’s specific bans around harbors that exist. DAR, I guess, is enforcement on or DLNR may have enforcement on but there’s no general legislation around it and not only the danger is, um, being right by the highways, um, but also can spread diseases and other things. So, um, this Point #5 is like maybe that could be part of that Plan, um, \[unclear\] limiting public feeding areas through education or possibly legislation around it because our understanding of the HogStop too is that it – unless you’re constantly feeding and monitoring those animals that if the food stops it actually increases the population numbers once they \[unclear\] goes off of the way. So instead, we’re wondering if there’s some sort of way to limit public feeding and that that might actually reduce the numbers and that could also help \[unclear\]. LT: OK. Thank you. I guess just some comments on that, yeah, the last year I was trying to figure out what I can do – there’s this guy that feeds all the birds right behind KTA on the road and, you know, all the time I drive down that road the birds – there’s thousands of them and they dodo on the car and so I was looking into the same thing and, um, like you said, there’s nothing we can do, there’s nothing else illegal about it but the things that I’ve been tracking was the Nene with the cats – the Nene with the cats in Hilo and in Kona and also down feeding the birds at 4- Miles. And so hopefully with the death of the Nene – the stealing of the baby and all of these cat infestations that is causing disease – I’m hopping some plans will come out. You know, something happens with that. SM: We were hoping that your Commission could examine that issue and/or if that could be part of a plan, maybe just specifically about pigs rather than expanding it to be all wild animals – it’s just… LT: Um-hum… SM: But, you know, there’s all different \[unclear\] cats versus the Nene and maybe just, you know, \[unclear\] the scope and focusing on feral pigs specifically especially \[unclear\]. SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. I’ll just note that GMAC currently has an open PIG – permitted inter-action group – sorry – I need to clarify – permitted inter-action group – that has to do with looking into the issues and concerns relating to mass feeding of animals within the community and if there’s potential solutions or something that we can deal with as far as locally, so I know there is that open inter-action group – that report has not come yet. LT: Um, statements from the public. AA: (A. Antonio) That’s two \[unclear\] that’s it for me. Ah, yeah, was going to touch up on that so we get that PIG inter-action group, ah, you’re the Chair of that as well, so just work with the Commissioners, you know, part of your group and get that going. Other than that, you know, going back to the pigs and I know \[unclear\] I heard he got commented on the – in that meeting as well. These pigs, you know, it’s such an influx – everybody’s doing a black \[unclear\] – they are a sustainable resources, right, everybody clearing out more properties – population grew with the people as well, not just the pigs, right, so that’s why getting more and more complaints, 16 more people moving in, locals moving out and they not used to all this big influx but, the Hawaiians brought these pigs over many, many years ago, up on the mountains, higher elevations, there’s still pure blood local pigs yet, um, I think there’s a need to be blood tests done and see if the lower elevations have that pure blooded pig yet and not cross-contaminated or whatever because technically now they become an endangered species not an invasive species, so… SW: You don’t want them to be endangered because you still want to be able to hunt them. AA: \[Unclear\] you can hunt the bad ones but not the good ones. SW: OK. I’m just letting you know. AA: I know. LT: Mahalo. OK. Let’s move forward with… AK: That’s the Plan. All of them and all you folks have shared has been extremely helpful and if the Commission would like we can provide periodic updates… LT: Yes, ma’am. AK: …. on how this progresses but we also invite all of you to ask that we \[unclear\] and any or all aspects of this work. Can’t do it alone. LT: Yeah, thank you very much. You know, I enjoy the whole part about having a certification and having people in the community who – like this Commission – I always ask questions to try and find perks for people – like what’s the perk of you doing this? It’s a lot of work and so if I can get some people certified to where this can be something that they look forward into growing into this position, you know, like a community leader in a hunting aspect – I’d get them free gear or something, you know, something to do because this work is about volunteers, right, they’re gonna contract this out, so I think the certification part might be a important part. Commissioners anymore? RD: Yeah, one, one, Duerr, District – 1. Ashley, picking up on Abraham’s, you know, the, the, that instead of in like branding the pig as a nuisance – the pig’s pua’a – and ahupua’a was the place of the pig – so it was a really center point of conservation in Hawaii and now Kamapua’a was the pig god was a high deity so, you know, giving respect to the pig would also give respect to the people who are with the pigs, pua’a because hunters over the years, hunters have really not been at the table with a lot of this – this is really the first time so it’s a real engagement that’s meaningful, yeah. AK: I’m glad to hear that, thank you. I hope that the \[unclear\] demonstrated that while certain \[unclear\] of the population have said, you know, pigs are troubles in their neighborhood. Like I have this one poor auntie – her neighbor – literally feeds all the wild pigs. My neighbor does too, but they may become dinner for us. She doesn’t know that. But like I think all the elements of this Plan have demonstrated what an underutilized resource… 17 RD: Yeah… AK: …. we have available to us and so I’m hoping that we’re able to establish proof of concept and do something really positive that not only feeds local families but also starts to generate some sort of local economy. BL: Brian, District – 4. Sorry I didn’t make it – I was working off-island… AK: No, it’s OK. BL: \[Unclear\] AK: Yeah, yeah. BL: But, you know, a lot of these things is at the state level – we need to like where Bob was talking - we need, you know, \[unclear\] we need to be able – the people – the landowners should be \[unclear\] to shoot the pigs on their property, you know, without being fear of being condemned as a felon and everything else, you know, there’s simple steps that we can do. Like I said, I’ve pushed a lot of these issues before and people came unglued when I suggested people be allow shot guns to shoot pigs on their own yard. People just lost their stuff and, you know, that’s effective. I’ve only had to shoot 2 in the last year and they go around my property, you know, it doesn’t take long for ‘em to learn, like I said they’re intelligent animals. AK: Yes. BL: And like you said, you know, I’m good neighbors with all of my neighbors so when they hear a loud shot they know what’s up and, you know, we don’t have an issue cause we’ve got gun toting people in our neighborhood that, you know, a lot of things – and the things – we \[unclear\] Hawaiian Beaches, you know, they’re complaining about those night poachers – it’s going on now – why don’t we just make it legal and get this the population down, like I said these animals keep a steady population – you can harvest seven out of every ten pigs to keep your herd stable, you know, and the problem is we don’t have adequate hunting regulations for these animals saying well Maui axis deer – there’s all these things – there \[unclear\] complaints but they don’t want to take the steps necessary to hunt these animals efficiently and like I said \[unclear\] on private property shouldn’t be allowed again. AK: So, my partner is a hunter and a spear fisherman, so we are very much about looking to the aina to provide. I think we are also very fortunate to have Riley Smith who is our Hawaii Island representative to the Board of Land and Natural Resources. He’s also a hunter and fisherman and do I’m gonna let him know that we are moving forward as a County of this Plan and at some point, maybe six months into the process, we do a formal presentation to the Board so that they’re aware – because that’s the body that’s going to approve or disapprove any sort of changes to hunting rules and regulations on our Island. I think they need to see us taking some kind of action so that then they’re even more public pressure for them to support the work that we’re doing. So got lots of plans for this. Thank you so much. LT: Thank you very much. 18 AK: Thanks for your time and thanks for the invitation. SW: If you do want to provide any updates to GMAC as far as anything you can email the Board’s secretary, Barbara Kossow. AK: Yes. She’s the one that invited me to the meeting and Bob. ?: Thanks, Ashley. b. Dr. Robert “Bob” Nishimoto, representative from the State of Hawai’i, Office of Planning and Sustainable Development, Marine and Coastal Zone Advocacy Council (MACZAC), Ke Kahu O Na Kumu Wai, presenting “Everything that happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas; but everything that happens mauka does not stay mauka; a mauka-makai perspective on coastal fishery management”. LT: All right. Thank you very much – that was a great presentation and a good update for all of us. Mahalo. OK. Moving forward to 5b. Dr. Robert “Bob” Nishimoto. Welcome. RN: Aloha. \[Unclear\] something mayor. Thank you so much, Bob, for inviting me. Again, I’ve cleared, you know, just two things – I’m from Hamakua, I’m from Ninole, I grew up there – I grew up in the days of the Plantation strikes – so fishing is really not a game activity for subsistence fishing, yeah, when that comes to social inter-action, so I belong to the Hamakua Advisory Committee – the action committee so there’s this issue there at Hamakua Advisory Plan – the same thing I’m with the Coastal Zone Management called MACZAC – they advocate for fishing \[unclear\] and I represent Hamakua side. So those of you who are not from Hamakua bear with me because I understand that one size does not fit all. OK. If you’re from Kona it’s a different strategy, you’re Hamakua it’s a different strategy, so I’m coming with a heavy bias but what I’m coming here is, um, I’m a kanaka-haole, I’m not a kanaka maoli so I don’t understand but I really appreciate because as an immigrant I have to country. Think about that. I’ve no – I can’t go home. But I’m so fortunate that Hawaiians have accepted all of us and we’re – they’re very open for us to use their terminology and so thank you – so if I miss-speak I want your correct me because I want to learn but this is all I have, it’s what I have. But I take great pleasure in idea of sharing, I mean, you’re all petitioners here, you know, it’s good to hear practitioners, um, one thing I’ve noticed again is speaking from the heart – we would all go to continent to go to school or have relatives or think about think about that – we never go to the other side of the Pacific – only recently people that talk about, eh, maybe we belong more to the Pacific Islanders rather than to the mainland. When I first worked for the state, one of the issues there I really faced was people telling me that I’m stupid, I don’t know what I’m talking about, I’m the one – all my life I grew up in Hamakua catching the opah and the \[unclear\]. \[Unclear\], opihi that kind of stuff – temptation days, yeah? They told me I’m stupid, what are they talking about. \[Unclear\] Normally we don’t talk like that, yeah? Um, well then, I used to say, wait a minute. \[Unclear\] report in my back yard where I used to go swim all the time, yeah, there no more oopu over there and then I realized, oh, my goodness – I looked at their methodology – ‘cause I practiced their science too, I understand how they do \[unclear\]. These guys are using electro-shockers from the mainland to sample trout and they’re using rubber boots to go \[unclear\]. You ever used rubber boots in the 19 river? That’s why they couldn’t find anything – but they had call and tell me I’m stupid. You know, as petitioners, please don’t lower yourself to say the PC thing I’m smart, you know. They just like us. Yeah, so I really kind of want you to help me think this cause one of my biggest – see, I don’t work anymore – I cut grass, guinea grass and whatever, keep pigs out of my yard and that kind of stuff, yeah? But I had the luxury of listening, understanding and sharing \[unclear\]. To me the biggest joy is to share with neighbors whatever I have – that’s what really makes us Islanders so let’s no lose that. I get kinda active in community, right, I always get sick and tired of people telling me – you know Bob where we come from – remember that – where we come from we do it this way – that’s fine but please, you know, that’s OK, but please respect what we do too. So, what I want to do here is a simple idea that a lot of kanaka maoli understands – so I tried to relate to you this morning the challenges I had was when people tell, oh, that’s not my kuleana – \[unclear\] government workers. It’s not my kuleana. Really? Hamakua has a big landslide – how many times I go to the state, oh, that’s not my kuleana. I go to the County, oh, I don’t know. The County your guys responsible to high tide mark – even, you know, you catch a fish Hamakua – think how small your beaches. It doesn’t take much, yeah, well the other issue we always hear is I gonna blame it on the County – Planning Department. They have their advisory committee meeting – they have a picture of a huge 72’ wooden shrimp boat from the Gulf of Mexico sitting on the front cover. How dare they approve something like this? Do you ever – I worked on a 70’ shrimp troller in the Gulf – I know what it does – but have a picture of that on the County document is disgraceful. It really shows disrespect – something’s wrong here. I think the point is we lower ourself to who we are – we shouldn’t – this is island – it’s us – no matter whether you’re kanaka maoli, kanaka haole – it doesn’t matter – sorry I got on a sermon, I, I… ?: That’s OK. Keep going. RN: You know, I want to show you because to me we get these big influence of these environmental groups that say, oh, they’re so over-fishing. Huh? Over-fishing – you go wait see Diamond Head fishery management area – see, look at the data. Every year it goes down. So, it’s the state – aren’t you guys’ subsidizing overfishing? I get this – they closed big areas but \[unclear\] assumptions that are totally wrong. But if you look at the kanaka maoli thinking – if you – I heard a person from Molokai last week he said, you know, good fishing ground is the byproduct of the habitat. And this is the essence of mauka-makai that I’m gonna talk about so I stop, I’ll show some pictures – I won’t go to the details, you know, but, again, as practitioners – you know, you gotta go so practical, you know, you’re there for a product – you don’t just write and oh, I’m good at promotions then we write a publication or whatever – no – it’s that you gotta eat or you whatever so that’s the point, so I’m not, I’ll just gonna show you the pictures and I’m gonna respect your time before you finish before 11:00a, I hope so, but \[unclear\]. Mr. Mayor, she’s so on it, thank you so much. OK, what \[unclear\]. ?: \[Unclear\] RN: Really, again, my apologies group. Hamakua Development Plan and this committee action guy – Maryann was here today, she’s kinda helps us with my project, she comes to Hamakua and we talked about this too so I talked to the chairman. I was shock when I found out in the committee action plan they have a coastal resource management plan – it’s a county document – was reaching out – it’s time to reach out to the state guys now, OK? Um, again, this is the part for a 20 whole reef of fishes along the Hamakua coast. I’m biased cause I represent Hamakua, OK? But this is an opportunity for us to bridge that gap with the state agency so there’s no such thing as, \[unclear\] all the people. \[Unclear\] was right? Not my kuleana. OK? So, this is where it all comes from – it was a small document – I was so excited when I saw that – next slide – OK. Management of coastal resources using the mauka-makai perspective \[unclear\] change things differently – this is the picture I took up Internet it’s a guy catching aama crab, see, old style - we’ve got the bamboo and coconut fronds, huh? Next slide. \[Unclear\] it all starts in the mouth – that’s where \[unclear\] starts – you gonna go \[unclear\] if we \[unclear\]. This is again simple stuff you all know but let me quickly go through. This is the blue is where all the perennial streams are – all the rock fill running streams. OK? It’s always Hamakua, yes, I’m biased, I talk about that kind of stuff. You from West Hawaii you talk about underground streams - there’s some caves. But the point is Hawaiians \[unclear\] but 5 million years difference \[unclear\]. So, what happens is when \[unclear\] the mauna, yeah, it keeps the rain on one side with all the tradewinds and so it’s like this – next slide – OK, here’s again the word muliwai. People always forget about the muliwai, estuaries – a lot of estuaries are really small – not like San Francisco Bay or Chesapeake Bay are huge estuaries or those bays in Louisiana. We don’t have that – ours is really small – this is Waipio – just to show you how everything’s so close, yeah, so compressed – next slide – muliwai in my opinion is the keystone – you know what keystone is? Keystone is a structure – it’s built like this – it’s the middle piece you put last. If you take the middle piece out the whole thing falls apart, OK, I think it is a keystone – it’s small, it’s not glamorous – \[unclear\] oh, look at those lovely corals with the ape \[sp?\] and yellow tang – you guys under – you don’t say, oh, that’s lovely, thank you \[unclear\] yellow tang, hum? So it’s the bias, OK? Again, you look this picture from the airplane and \[unclear\] picture this is on the Kohala side – the mauka-makai – you know, we have seven native ehu kai \[unclear\] – they all live in the ocean. When they come back – you know different like the sand and us OK and they come back, OK? But it’s those activities where the glitches especially on Kauai harvest \[unclear\] OK? But they should have connected but we forget that, yeah, we also get one look at the ocean but it’s not my kuleana, yeah, that’s what the state say. It’s up to the county. Eh, what about the \[unclear\] not my kuleana and so what are we going to do? So maybe this is where the \[unclear\] came here and bring the boats \[unclear\] together and help us out. You all understand this, you know this, you know. And here’s \[unclear\] so small and you got the kahakai this kind, \[unclear\] next time. Here we are, yeah, here we are \[unclear\] I dialed that red arrow just to show you – I \[unclear\]. You know, ah, just by chance we have some tagging – just a size – we tag \[unclear\]. Three hundred eighty days yet. We tracked that thing it was Kohala for a while, it was Kona for a while, it came around. About a year and two weeks later it ends up at Waiakea \[unclear\]. So where did they go with it \[unclear\]. A \[unclear\] like this? Make movement from Waiakea Pond to the downside Bayshore Towers every day they go somewhere. Every day. \[Unclear\] So there’s a lot of it we don’t understand – next slide – OK. The big issue: Maui \[unclear\] the water. OK. Because the Maui water issue – I really forced it to kind of have a, you know the guys on windward Oahu when they have \[unclear\] you know the case with the water? With the taro lo’i farmers and all? But now in the Hawaiian water code the oopu has standing \[unclear\], you know. Next slide. OK. Here’s in Maui – two \[unclear\] that are close they are – one goes down slope, one \[unclear\]. OK. Look over here – that’s the muliwai, yeah? Next slide. \[Unclear\] downslope, yeah. Next slide. Ok. Good enough, next slide. See where they close, when they take water on the mauka side or \[unclear\]. Next slide. The henana \[sp?\] nothing goes up. Next slide. Aholehole, uma uma – next slide – nothing – all these is – these are not \[unclear\] these just happened. I took sample data - next slide – OK – and here’s another stream, this is the one that flows all the time – next slide – here we go – what does it tell you? That muliwai that’s cut off you’ve got nothing – to bring this 21 thinking to agencies is that mauka water that doesn’t flow that I can’t catch fish here – it’s not overfishing – that’s totally nonsense – it’s this – next slide – one second, ah… LT: Is that \[unclear\]? RN: \[Unclear\] LT: That picture. RN: It’s ah… LT: Honu manu? RN: Yeah. LT: Yeah. RN: You know that one – you been there? LT: I almost been everywhere on every island. RN: Yeah. LT: Yeah, I fixed the lo’i… RN: Is that right? LT: ….yeah with the family, um, the Hueo family Palimanu. ?: I learned a lot from the Kauai \[unclear\]. LT: Yeah. ?: It’s Kauai \[unclear\]. RN: Anyway, this the point. OK the point is when somebody’s bull dozing mauka if all the dirt falls down it goes in the ocean. \[Unclear\] I know Ashleys partners – he’s a diver - we went around the island in his boat and all that stuff – when the buddy said – he’s all but 80, 90 feet Hamakua – he touched the bottom with a boulder. SW: I’m sorry, I need to check with the Zoom – can you see now Cortney? OK. She can see now. Thank you, go ahead. RN: \[Unclear\] 80, 90 feet under – next slide – OK – always management is top down – except you guys – you stand up for what you supposed to for that – I like the bottom up – I do – the state \[unclear\] I don’t work with them anymore, they like to me \[unclear\] fishery management area – it’s lovely – Haena – Milolii – all community-based – local knowledge you live there you know 22 that OK, um, the problem is sometimes it becomes a tool to keep others out. I, not only us, it is a story – oh, I don’t want you to come fish over here – when I want to get my luau I got to your place and collect 30 uhu. But you can’t come over here to disturb uhu. You look at the rule making – there’s no biological sense – so what’s the point of closing an area cause you want continuation perennial, you want things to make up next generation – that’s really what the point is – right of \[unclear\] that is – and it’s the wrong assumption – I fought this with other guys – OK – close an area – you get big fat fish – cause they won’t give babies – there’s something called spill over – but that’s not true – you guys know – you see a pregnant pig in the mountain you know it’s not gonna hanau over there – it’s gonna be someplace else \[unclear\]. And this is why I think the \[unclear – sounds like nunuwai\] is where it all happens – this is the nursery brah – I remember many years worked with the \[unclear\] place on Maui with the taro guys… LT: In Hana. RN: Yeah, in, yeah, not, before Hana. There’s a peninsula over there look like Waiki. ?: Oh, that, yeah. RN: Well, anyway, but it was back there – you’re asking – are we gonna release more, yeah? I say, eh, how the more population that go? They no look in the ocean, they go look inside the river – oh, yeah, get moi \[unclear\] – I think we good this year. So those people knew how to estimate – you no go count fish \[unclear\] um, guys like snorkel or coral reef, you know, on nice warm day go count fish. You ever try count fish Hamakua? Good luck. \[Unclear\] Sorry but I don’t believe that. \[Unclear\] It’s a good idea to gather your data but not only gather your data but gather you into the group – that really is the key – OK – but other side of the story is you want to look on a bigger perspective – you no need one – you don’t only want the kai you want mauka, yeah, because of mauka – that’s what drives your system, OK, next time – sounds good to \[unclear\]. Well, anyway, let’s \[unclear\] the point I’m having is the key is, you want a sustainable stock – that’s really what you want, you know, you guys, hunters, you aren’t going to \[unclear\], you know, OK I’m gonna take this much, this is the ethics of most communities - take whatever you need – the whole idea – OK - next slide – OK – this is where – this is just generalized – coastal zone species – now I’m biased – talking about the mumu, the amaama, I’m talking about the kole and those things, OK, aholehole – I’m not talking about the uku or the \[unclear\] or the ono – these are different \[unclear\] fishes. I’m talking about coastal zone – what the locals fish, OK, again, aumakua is my \[unclear\]. I doubt \[unclear\] more human than dogs and animals based on millions of eggs – the idea there’s a chat happening – they’re gonna fertilize and the herd carries ‘em – then when they get into they use up the egg yolk and they come and they celebrate – they come down \[unclear\] – they sell ‘em to the buyer and they come into estuaries so there’s Kohole, there is Waipio, whether it’s Waimanu or any of those places they come in and they settle down – OK – so you look at Waiakea Pond in the back yard you see all the babies come in – sometimes they come back and so did the hinano \[unclear\] inside the mountain and so does the opai. Next slide – OK – thing is – it’s three general habitat, yeah - the reef – you guys that fish the reef – know the reef, spear fish you go hook \[unclear sounds like mabeta\] with the DLNR code how it works – Pelagic? The babies will drift with the marine plant. There it’s hard to sample. But when they come to the – they settle - it’s the estuary like what get hard, yeah? Yes. This is the keystone. This is the place, yeah – next slide – OK – this is – I took it off the Internet – forget about it – this \[unclear\] cast in science – next time – sorry about that – they look nice, eh? 23 Um, Hamakua – you know the hawksbill turtle is critically endangered and they born primarily in, in Punaluu and the Volcano side. And you know, most of the – and some on Maui – but most, just about all the juveniles - rock of Hamakua but they feed on the surface \[unclear\] sponge – these \[unclear\] – so what you think is the mud doing to the darn sponge, you know, sponges the same thing like don’t smoke because it’s \[unclear\] – same thing sponges – they filter – \[unclear\] happen to the lungs – but these are things they don’t see, yeah, oh, I love the turtles. Oh, I love turtles – \[unclear\] the mud slide Hamakua – so what the point is you gotta make that connection – this way got mauka and the land practices, again, I not picking any County guys – they take great efforts in getting permits – oh, yeah \[unclear\] show you what I do when I go do \[unclear\] when it’s all pau, guess what – did they ever come back? Nobody comes back. In my neighborhood I had this 9-million dollar homes that’s gonna be a sod farm, an ag farm – that’s what they do they have TV shows there. So, where’s the policing? Fishermen here you are. You sucking in wind again. They blame you. Overfishing – you guys \[unclear\], you know, not truth. It’s subsistence \[unclear\] remember that. We eat that stuff. I was told, you mean you guys eat that stuff? Of course we do. But, again, don’t lose it - decide to be yourself – at’s islanders – next slide – again, you gotta respect those practitioners that practice mauka/makai – I need your guidance – this is the message that we gotta send out. OK. Native forest… \[Unclear\] natural stream flow, now. OK. The people that like hydroelectric plan go say, oh, I’ll put a dam on. Oh, we go let your water go – what’s the minimum flow? That’s not the point – the point is whenever you get those peak flow it’s a signal, you know, it’s like, oh, we got winds come \[unclear\] – this is the time I’m gonna move, yeah? I worked on a profession as for the state – we worked on lobster migration in the Caribbean. With the first big winter storm comes down into the mainland – it hits south Florida – that’s when the lobsters – boom – they migrate. It’s a trigger. Most days it’s from the mountain – when natural – the \[unclear\] peaks – but the hinana knows, oh yeah, I’m going home now – I can smell home. And they go home – so you need that natural peaks and flow of the streams. And, you know how I feel - it goes ummm. Two days later – is those things, you know – eh, that’ the \[unclear – mamarahoshi?\] it’s just, yeah. Um, you gotta focus on nursery habitat – at’s – you know nursery habitat is the ugliest, ugliest place. You think about it – you go look Waiakea Pond it’s ugly, rubbishy, junk stuff. But you think about what grows over there – we’ve got a lot of California grass – it’s not doing anybody any good – the native had reeds before – and what it does it produces more oxygen in \[unclear\] so those are positive things. So why don’t you guys come down – got water birds – \[unclear\] like water birds? \[Unclear\] water birds – this is great. Why can’t fishermen partner with them say, hey, let me help you with \[unclear\]. Yeah? So, this is where I’m hoping – when users like you can help them think – we can partner with them, you know what I mean – we don’t go shoot water birds – \[unclear\] water birds – right? But the fact that that’s how they villainize you – those environmental people, oh, you guys are bad – you guys will take it. You’re not. So, my point here is to sermonize to you – is to say – let’s just turn our head mauka, yeah, and let’s see what’s \[unclear\] and you guys can fish boat or whatever. You see the estuary. Think of it as just as like a - the heart, yeah? This is the heart that drives the system, yeah, and, why County code has this office called Office of Sustainability, Climate, Equity and Resilience. I felt, personally, is this - the fact they organized this – if you read this code – it’s like it’s reaching out to the state sides for the habitat – maybe this is the bridge that we can make a new end users – unpractical – you don’t just there and think about lovely things and you just, you know, users you know what goes on so this is where I think you can be part of helping like you said young \[unclear\] I would be help you with some of your concerns – I’m willing to help you – so that’s the part that’s lacking, eh, \[unclear\]. And why I say that because I been on another side of the fence before. I’m a – what you call those people that… 24 ?: Environmentalist? RN: No, no. Nah. Ho. Yes and no. I could understand that too. Because that’s where you live, right, that’s where you live. But when I came back to Hawaii you had to outside type came in and it said environmentalists. No? That’s when there was a hippie person. Who do I chose, who’s my uncle? Them or that? Is that thing from my - it’s the community or is it uncle that I grew up with? And this is a dilemma. But, again, I’m so glad you can speak up and speak so, ah, civilly, you know, and be part of that solution. And let’s not lose this Island that they get with. And, um, so I took the County action committee, you know, they said, Bob, don’t talk out of state – just make sure it’s a \[unclear\] thing – when I saw Chapter 37 and \[unclear\] says, darn, this is the way we get bridge back there, OK? You don’t, you’re not going hunt, you’re also fish – \[unclear\] do that too. So that’s part of the process – how can we \[unclear\], so, yeah, you guys have game management \[unclear\]. Game management \[unclear\] hunt. We go shoot sheep \[unclear\] nothing like that. But we said no – but now I think you tell me there’s a lot of fishermen here too, so, you know, please invite me again – I love to listen to your stuff and ideas and how I can \[unclear\] I’m advisory so you gotta \[unclear\] yeah, I \[unclear\] advisor. So I think being in council that’s part of the situation. You get the mayor’s office here too – we’re good to go. OK? Next slide - OK – anyway thank you for your time, ah, for bearing with my sermon, um, but I thought this was the solution where we can raise that \[unclear\]. You know, we all going get make before we get that done but at the same time at least we can leave behind our thinking – your thinking, yeah, cause don’t be demonized – \[unclear\] – but that’s what strategies they do, yeah, with this whatevers, so… Anyway, thank you so much and thank you, Bob, for inviting me. RD: Oh, thanks for coming. RN: And, ah, I’ll take questions or whatever - so I’d like to come again – or invite me or you invite me to your meetings and I like listen but you guys in the mountain know when you go hunt – you know the things going on. You know, there’s this lady who \[unclear\] that Hawaiians say poetic sayings \[unclear\] poetic sayings, you know, over 30% poetic sayings are about fish and herbs. Oh. \[Unclear\]. I’m going snooze about oopu when I was on Kauai. Kauai literally lives - harvesting of oopu is Kauai. You know when – remember days in Kona – the Kona keikis used to have different summer because they picked coffee a way with difference. For a while in Kauai – when theres the oopu and the hinana comes home – no more school. The hoohana goes - go like the hinana and they go like the oopu too – that comes down from mountain and they used to dry ‘em on the clothesline. And they used to eat the nakea - the big ones – so I went to Kauai after the Hurricane Iniki, oh, I learned so much from the West Kauai people and what they used to do. You know they malama the valley. What happens if you over fish your oopu – do you go the next day? Make shame, – we don’t. It shows how terrible we are in caring for the land. OK. That’s good. So – I came back I says, OK, how come there’s no oopu fish here, how come when the oopu run there’s nobody cut out of school and go catch oopu? Cause no more that kind oopu here. The island is different – we’re five million years apart – so if you look over here – Hamakua is all cliffs, yeah? One species of gobi - the red tail gobi’s the one can climb. You go to Kauai – no more waterfall like that so babies – no need to climb – they on they come in – but the species is different because the habitat is different. Kauai has a big makea – big ones, you know, they run – they come running down with the first rain comes down – like the birds migrating – the makea comes down if you go fish – you go to Hanalei bridge after the first big storm, all the guys on the river catching makea – this big – the oopu – no more over here. At best – Malua maybe, yeah, 25 because they cannot climb as good at the red tailed one. Doing my work I see, eh, how come no more oopu here – so I looked down say, eh, get one big pond over there by the ocean – I going check ‘em – I going down. \[Unclear\] would come up but had all the oopu there because \[unclear\]. Yeah? So, the fact that they stopped overfishing is just that – I heard a guy from Molokai told me, fish is the byproduct of a healthy habitat. He said, keep that in mind – be really nice that we can fish that again so, again, thank you, so I’ll shut up. LT: Thank you, uncle, you know, ah, I really liked the part where in the beginning you said, you know, thank you to the Hawaiians, cause, um, being Hawaiian, I know that I have privilege, access and all this ikea to get the fish and hunting zones and so I take my love Hawaiian friends into DHHL to hunt. I take them into my fishing spots and down in Keaukaha my family we own, well, we don’t own – we have the lease on one of the biggest parcels of ocean front property – which is the old zoo – if you know the old zoo? RN: Yeah, \[unclear\], yeah? LT: Um-hum. So my family has the old zoo and a part of my understanding of community is opening up our aina for the community to get the ai – get their fish, get their food and so what I try and do whenever I see DLNR or any game management people out there I come and you guys have no jurisdiction over this parcel because my family is the caretakers of this ahupuaa so if you find anybody – Hawaiian or not – fishing in this section – you leave them alone, um, but it’s been hard for me to do stuff like that because of population of fish went down over the last 20 years, real hard, yeah, in Keaukaha? Um, and the nenue like you mentioned in the beginning was one of the main fish what – right there in Puhi Bay – remember? They used to grow right by the road. And, like you said, we don’t count the fish - every day I’ll pass and I’ll see ‘em jumping – 4:00 am – I’ve seen ‘em right there and once I no see ‘em I know my counts already, yeah, so, that’s kind of like the \[unclear\] kupuna \[noise obstruction\] as, ah, you know, the fish population in Keaukaha has devastated and I always get into battles with Jay Hara and Tokunaga because they sell all the fishing supply – I understand – I need some help down here cause everyone who buys your equipment fish in our area, um, and so looking at your presentation of the migration of fish gives me hope, you know, maybe the fish can migrate from Bay Front Hilo one over back into Keaukaha cause we no more that kind fish anymore, yeah. SW: Dr. Nishimoto – can you move over here so we can have you here on the camera again. RN: OK. Um, here’s one suggestion. These are inevitable – think about that \[unclear\] say that so – you know when Hawaiians built Hawaiian fishponds – they built in areas that usually the \[unclear\]. They realized that \[unclear\] setting but also, is also an estuary. Can the community refurbish Hawaiian fishponds – that’s part of giving back – 90% \[unclear\] is a law, yeah, old Hawaiian fishpond style? You go the seaside they get the hole with the makaha yet – the makaha is with it – so what happens is the uma uma comes in the baby, yeah, the hina, no babies come in. Na pua. Then they grow up, right? LT: Um-hum. RN: When the winter storm come up you no can find the \[unclear\] when the waves come – salt water come out – the saltwater waves – big mullet smell the salt – then they come to the 26 makaha – so you open the inside gate they drop the makaha and they close the back. But the old practitioners let the big one go first – they doesn’t go – this is my contribution to the ocean. LT: Um-hum. RN: Going down well is the big one is gonna lay eggs and they gonna come back and that’s what they do – this is the practice, OK, because I talk to Ika-shibi fishermen – they say they catch – they see those big mullet in the ocean at night when they catch the fish – he be with the light they see out there – single – all that \[unclear\] eye \[unclear\]. These are the ones that \[unclear\] once you let them go. So is this, you know, can fish, you know, can, can Hawaiian fishpond practitioners, you say, that’s the way to say the state – can we give you back – making us less burdensome to give us permit and all that nonsense cause I’m gonna give back to the ocean. That’s a strategy maybe cause you get revive – it took many years and many thinking and many dealing on the head by not eating fish – you cannot eat fish from their fishpond, right? LT: Yeah. RN: But to be able to have the fishpond be part of the solution and this is where the Hawaiians \[unclear\] ways. So anyway, just an idea, yeah? LT: Yeah. Mahalo. Yeah, we got four acres of our total of 11 is the fishpond right there at Onekahakaha so, um, I actually interned and I was teaching at Heeia on Oahu. RN: Oh, good, oh, that’s good fishing. LT: So, I was the land manager for the 78 acres in the valley where they taking down those steps now, but I opened up the lo’i. And, like you said, at the poowai and the punawai, um, you know, we end up at the fish pond in Kaneohe so, um, I did all, you know, take the invasive limu from the fishpond – put ‘em in the lo’i and try and regenerate the whole system – so I’m trying to figure out how to do that over here and it kinda seems like you want that path too to figure it out – so thank you and I’d love for you to come back. RN: It’s a philosophy that we all, you know, no shame with philosophy, you know, the very sad thing is we all go to the mainland, yeah, but then the same time OK you do it your way but we do it our way and we’ll make shame that we do this way, yeah, so, anyway, I’ll stop. Thank you. LT: Um… Any discussion from the rest of the Commissioners? RD: Ah, Duerr, District – 1. Cortney and I were just basically secretaries – the man with the kuleana was Leomana, you know, and you’re here on behalf of his, his reign as Chair of GMAC. LT: Sir? PD: Yeah, Pali, ah, District – 2. Um, I grew up in Kau. Live at Punaluu beach. And, ah, Kau district you can put three islands in Kau district. RN: Yeah. PD: And there’s no running river. 27 RN: That’s right. PD: OK? We’re all pali over there too. But our pali and the fresh water is all come from underneath. I was there when they came with the first turtle study in the 80’s, ah, we protested the whole idea about Hawaiians not having the right to eat turtle. Ah, we lost, was at the state capitol in ’80-’82. Trying to stop that we had a right to eat. So, we lost that right and now right, living in Punaluu all my life and fishing there – the turtles unbalanced – the whole papa – there’s no more limu already cause the turtle ate it all. And if you went from I’d say Puna all the way through Volcano but all the way around to Kona – there’s no running rivers. So, the freshwater underneath - the cool temperature - cause it’s not open to the surface created this ecosystem of different limus… RN: Sure… PD: But all red limu is all related to each other. All the green is all related even though they look at different shapes – but they all come from one limu. So, the variety of fish and the fish you know all eat certain things on the reef – that’s their purpose – to keep the balance of the seaweed and some eat the coral. But that’s their function. So, when I watch the unbalance of lolo fish as diving all my life – see schools of fish disappear – cause no more kaukau. So, the turtle ate all the limu and they still doing it till today. So, we lost all of that – now right around the left side where we went to Hualalai to protest the fact that you cannot fish for 3 miles of in front of that hotel. Ah, ah, Five Seasons or Four Seasons up there. You cannot fish in front of the hotel – a mile and a half to the left – a mile and a half to the right – stop fishing because there’s no fish. Well, the resorts drilled a hundred wells mauka and all the fresh water being taken out for condos and golf courses – no more fresh water reaching the papa – so there’s no fish – but we fishermen got blamed… RN: That’s right. PD: …. for killing all the fish in front of that hotel. Not the fact that no more fresh water seeping out, you know, so, we always getting the flack – the fishermen – about how western man uses our shoreline and what they use it for – recreation – and not for our subsistence. OK? And so, the lucky part about your aumakua is there’s no beach where you going get one hotel. It’s gonna be where we live – where there’s gonna be hotels because we get the beach. But we suffered from the whole idea about no subsistence. Then we forced to go buy fish in the store and we can do subsistence. So there’s an unbalance, you know, and I don’t know if this Commission can make comments about why don’t you do study of how the population of turtles is eating all the seaweed – the limu – especially in places where there’s no rivers and the turtles that we used to catch – when I grew up – and ate them – we used to catch ‘em on the cliffs with the hook because they’ll come off the side of the cliff and bite the limu and go back down with the waves. But at the beach, itself, because they know we eat ‘em – they were smart enough to keep that distance away, see, so everything was balanced. But the unbalance of saying that one species is more protected than the other on an Island, you know, that’s not balanced. So, I don’t know what the comments from this Commission would be but it should be DLNR doing a study about the over impact of unbalancing the system by allowing the turtles to eat everything. I think the cowboys went through that with the sheep and the cattle… 28 RN: Right. PD: ….about how a sheep ate the \[unclear\] grass and start eating the roots of it and that’s the same thing with the turtles – even at low tide – I saw turtles just scraping the limu off the rocks and it’s not even long – it’s just short now – they already ate the top half and now it’s scraping all the limu off the rocks, you know, so I just saying that there is a bad situation by allowing the turtles to over produce themselves and unbalance the whole ecosystem about that whole thing with limu and the seaweed and how hotels are sucking all the water up, ah, especially on the places with no running rivers that unbalance the whole ecosystem and I don’t think anybody goes back to check – like you said you see development affecting your rivers or your waters – that’s the same thing that’s happening non-river areas so, as being there in Kau and big as it is – we have that problem because the fresh water comes out a lot in certain places and as you go down South Point not that much water comes out – fresh water – ‘cause the limu different. The fish even different. You catch a fish in Kau throw net – you can go all day with your fish in your bag. No stink. But try to South Point and carry your fish in your bag half a day and it starts smelling already. It’s because of that ini – the fresh water and the variety of limu that they eating – that it doesn’t forment in their oopu as fast as the ones that are in non-freshwater areas. So that’s the problem we had – what you talking about – is an area with no rivers… RN: Yeah. PD: …. is that we had fishpond with no rivers and in the fishpond growing up there – every species you get in your river is in our fishpond. How did they get there without any rivers? Is it through the lava tubes? Or did the kanakas bring that there – like every other place where they see things no more. Say a big flood – and all that water came down the river and took everything with it. And there’s nothing to replenish – you go to the other river and bring the species there to replenish themselves. I mean that’s just Hawaiian common sense, right, but you got a different mentality today – one hardly look at the environment and how we used the environment and have a real scientific western idea about how our species should be, you know, we get judged by people that come from continents – they don’t come from an island – and they got experience from big continents where you can make mistakes and move away from your mistake. We don’t get to move from our mistakes. We stuck here. We live on an island so there is a problem about what do we do as this Commission and being part of creating this 11 years ago was to be that kind of a voice and it’s not just that – we created this commission back then to allow DLNR to run everything. But for us to create our own Commission to tell DLNR that this is our resources – this is our Island and you should not just take advice more but to create more law in protecting it, ah, and talking about Kauai – Kauai doesn’t have a game commission – we’re the only island that has it, so we should be more strong about reinforcing our needs of this Island to DLNR. You know, I got arrested years ago making opihi at national park. We came up by boat – going up to Haala Bay to net opihi. The helicopters caught us, OK? They landed down and gave us tickets for making opihi. So, I had to go federal court in Honolulu… SW: Mr. Dedman, I’m sorry, one, we’re going beyond the presentation and 2) we only have five minutes left in the meeting. 29 PD: Yeah, that was in, well, going about how we weren’t arrested because they threw the case out – everybody has a right to high water mark – I was getting to that point. SW: OK. PD: And the other point is that we have a corporate counsel that sits in our meeting and admitted to me that she doesn’t have any understanding of native rights in Richardson School of Law. And fish and game, fish and game is all about native fishing rights and hunting rights. So if you don’t have that experience, I can see the problem we have here in this Commission that we have a corporate counsel that doesn’t have that background understanding – how to defend natives and your part about how you respect the natives even though you’re not one – so you can see the problem we have where we have corporate counsel that don’t know about our rights – mauka/makai – especially fishing and hunting. SW: I’m… PD: So, I give you back that. SW: OK. And I’m just going to put something in the record, Deputy Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan – my role as a corporation counsel is not to advocate for native rights or to advocate for any, anything, really. My role is to ensure that this Commission meets its responsibilities under the charter – doesn’t exceed its authority under the charter – that it follows Sunshine Law and that it follows Robert’s Rules of Order. So really, I’m more in the role of a parliamentarian if you want to look at something like that – then, then anything else. I don’t initiate any kind of cases or anything like that. PD: Yeah, so I think you should step down and let more of a legal person to come and stay at our meetings. SW: That – my role is defined… PD: \[Unclear\] hunting and fishing that… SW: My role is defined by the charter and whoever takes my place would be doing the exact same thing. PD: Well, you know, the County just submitted a bill, ah, 145 that you’d have Hawaiians on all the commissions and swear to the constitution and if you’re not swearing to the constitution on my rights then I think you should be removed. SW: Mr. Dedman. I’m sorry but that’s beyond what’s on the agenda and we only have two minutes left, Chair, so it doesn’t appear that there’s enough – would you like to orally continue those matters? LT: Um, we can just move forward and before we end the meeting, I just wanted to get this one update because we’ve been talking about the dredging, of Wailoa River mouth long time – so we have an actual update, so I just wanted to get this update for us because… 30 SW: Is that under a Commissioner report? SM: No, excuse me, it’s my comment. Um, just briefly, it’s connected to the 5d – the item 5d – that we were just on. I just want to let the speaker and Commission know \[unclear\]. SW: OK. Um… I don’t know if we have enough time – you can add it as an agenda item for the next meeting. LT: OK. Um… RD: Duerr, District – 1, it’s short item. Could we hear her? LT: Ah, \[unclear\]. SM: Just because the comment runs on estuaries – I just want to let everybody know that the Wailoa Flood Control Maintenance Dredging Project that’s above and below Kilauea Avenue, ah, um, that that is moving forward from my understanding and if anyone has any questions they can contact our office, um, and I know we don’t have time to go into it now, I just thought the speaker would be very interested in that because it is connected to the Wailoa River and it would be great to get your mana’o on it as well as the Commissioners awareness that that project they’re applying for federal money – it’s a combo state and the county jurisdiction area and it’s kind of complicated so I’m not gonna give any more details now – just letting you know that that’s happening and that also our office is directly working on a Hilo watershed setting that I think is very relevant to the presentation that you just gave. So, just letting everybody know that if they have questions or they want to give input or have it as a future agenda item, I’m happy to provide whatever info I can or invite Jenn Kagiwada – Council Member \[unclear\] to speak. SW: Can you state your name and position again for the record? SM: Yes, Shannon Matson, working as a legislative assistant for Council, District – 2, thank you. LT: Thank you very much, and right now it’s 11:00a. Sorry for ending this meeting real abruptly right in the middle of everything but that concludes our time and… SW: So, I need you to orally move 5c, 6a and 7a to next month’s meeting. LT: OK, and we’re just gonna move whatever’s left on the agenda that we didn’t get to cover and hopefully we can get the presentation that we missed today on to the next meeting. SW: And you’re now being number 8. c. Stephen Holmes, representative from Sierra Club Hawai’i Island Group, presenting “Clean Water Act Enforcement and Policy Implications”. (Did not attend meeting due to flu. Carry over to June’s meeting) 31 6. NEW BUSINESS: a. Discussion: Turkey Hunting Regulations Affecting the County of Hawai’i, presented by Commissioner Robert Duerr. (Deferred to June’s meeting). 7. ANNOUNCEMENTS: LT: And then, ah, Announcements, number 8 – the next meeting will be June 18, 2024, 9 am, 25 Aupuni Street – right back here. That’s it for today, can we have a motion to adjourn… 8. ADJOURNMENT (11:00 AM): BL: Brian, District – 4, a motion to close the meeting. PD: I wanted to make one more statement before you close. SW: I – all of the agenda items have been moved at this time Mr. Dedman, so the only thing on the floor would be the motion to adjourn. RD: It’s an important statement and it’ll be short. Chair? Chair? SW: Again, the only thing that’s on the agenda – is there a second to the motion to adjourn? If not we’re going to end up adjourning because we’re overtime. AA: Well, the meeting started like 15 minutes late. SW: It doesn’t matter, we still end at 11. ?: \[Unclear\] people… But that’s OK… SW: We took up all of our time on other matters. AA: Took up 15 minutes in tech time. SW: We’re adjourned. LT: Can we have a discussion? CO: Are we allowed to stay on, excuse me, are we allowed to stay on after the meeting or do you have to close the \[unclear\]. SW: We have to close the meeting. 32 ?: We can’t have a… SW: \[Unclear\] ?: I’m sorry? ?: What I mean is could we leave the cameras on and could he make his statement after the meeting is adjourned with us in the room still? SW: No because then you’re over – you have more than quorum and more than quorum can’t discuss something that could potentially become board business. It sounds like what they want talk about is potentially board business. If they have items that they want to add to agenda – they can add them to the agenda. If they want to stay after and talk to the Chair about adding items to next month’s agenda – they can do that, um, but at this point in time the meeting is done – we’ve run out of time. ?: Is all this on record? LT: Yeah. ?: \[Unclear\] SW: So, we’re closing the meeting… LT: OK. The meeting ended at 11:00 am. Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary 33