HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024_06_18 GMAC MinutesJune 18, 2024 - GMAC Minutes
Game Management Advisory Commission
County of Hawai’i
Minutes – Final Draft
Meeting Date: June 18, 2024
Time: 9:00 am to 11:00 pm
Place: Zoom and In-Person 25 Aupuni Ctr., Ste. #1501, Hilo HI
LT: Aloha. Welcome to the meeting on the Game Management Advisory Commission, this meeting
will now come to order. Today is Tuesday, June 18, 9:00 am - this meeting will be held at the
Puna Conference Room at the County building in Hilo and on Zoom. I’d like to introduce the
Commissioners attending – we’re going to go by district.
1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL:
District 1 - Robert Duerr, Present, In person
District 2 – Ralph Palikapu Dedman, Present, in person
District 3 – Rhon Leomana Turalde, Present, in person
District 4 – Brian Ley – Present, in person
District 5 - Vacant
District 6 – Vacant
District 7 – Natalie Reynolds, Present, Excused
District 8 – Cortney Okumura – Present via Zoom
District 9 – Justin Ackerman – Present via Zoom
Quorum Established with 6 in attendance and 1 excused.
STAFF: Sylvia Wan, Deputy Attorney, Corporation Counsel – in person
Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist – via Zoom
Barett Otani, Executive Assistant to Mayor Roth – Tech set-up
LT: OK – roll call – District – 1, Robert Duerr.
RD: Aye.
LT: District – 2, Palikapu Dedman?
PD: Here.
LT: District – 3, myself. District – 4, Brian Ley?
BL: Here.
LT: District – 5, is currently vacant. District – 6, is vacant. District – 7, Natalie Reynolds?
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SW: She’s absent today.
LT: Absent today, um, District – 8, Miss Cortney Okamura.
CO: Here.
LT: Yes, ma’am. And District – 9, Mr. Justin Ackerman.
JA: Here.
LT: Aloha, sir, we have quorum. Today we have Corporation Counsel Sylvia Wan as attorney for the
Commission and is Barbara on?
SW: Barbara is on, but her video is not turned on.
LT: And we have Barbara online as well. With some housekeeping rules – please make sure your cell
phones are turned on silent or turned off to all of us who are attending here in person – please
remember to speak into the microphones here in the middle of the tables so that way your
testimony can be recorded. Under HRS 92 tack 3 – the Sunshine Law – GMAC may remove any
person who willfully disrupts the meeting or prevents and compromise the conduct of the
meeting – all persons appearing before GMAC are reminded to conduct themselves in a
courteous manner for testimony. Those in person, if you would like to testify, please fill out the
public statement registration form here on the table. For those on Zoom, if you would like to
testify on any agenda items, please provide the name and identify which item you would like to
testify on behalf of in the Chat. You cannot just raise your hand you have to identify the item
you would like to present on. Questions from the public, for those on Zoom, you may pose a
question on the Zoom Chat – for those in person you may write your questions down on the
public statement over here on the table. Please note that your questions may or may not be
asked – this is a special thing that happens with GMAC - at the discretion of the Chair. The Zoom
Chat is not recorded and not part of any meeting’s minutes. Zoom Chat is not for testimony or
discussion. You’ll be recognized when it is time to submit your testimony. All GMAC members
are finding that they’ll be recognized at the appropriate times for questions and discussions,
mahalo.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: May 21, 2024
Action: C. Okumura made a motion to approve the minutes of April 16, 2024.
Seconded by R. Duerr. Motion carried by voice poll vote with 6 ayes, no nays and 1
excused.
LT: We’re moving on to the approval of the minutes. Did everybody get the email with the minutes
inside? We gotta do a…
SW: Motion…
LT: Can I get a motion to pass the draft of minutes?
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CO: This is Cortney, District – 8, so moved.
RD: Seconded.
LT: We have a second to the motion, any discussion, any opinions on the draft minutes? I don’t see
none. Do we \[unclear\]?
SW: Ah, you should.
LT: OK. Starting from District – 1, yeah or neah? I’ll pass in a minute. District – 1?
RD: Aye.
LT: District – 2?
PD: Aye.
LT: District – 3? Aye. District – 4?
BL: Aye.
LT: District 5 & 6 is vacant. District – 7?
SW: Absent.
LT: District – 8?
CO: Aye.
LT: At last District – 9?
JA: Aye.
LT: All ayes. The draft minutes pass. Thank you.
3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS:
LT: Statements from the public on agenda items. Today we have two people from the public who
wish to present on agenda items. The first member of the public – Mr. Abraham Antonio and
his agenda item is on the HogStop. You have the floor, sir.
AA: Morning GMAC Commission.
LT: Aloha.
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AA: Chair, I just have a question of why the HogStop is on the agenda. For one, when I was on the
Commission and past chair Corporation Counsel said that, people can’t go on the agenda unless
they’re reparable people. Kaui Lucas is not a reparable person on this HogStop issue. She may –
she’s only a sales distributor, District – 1, Robert Duerr had people from the public that wanted
to be on the agenda, and they couldn’t be on the agenda per Corporation Counsel saying that
they’re not reparable people even though they were people from the community and clubs and
organizations. So, at this time I think there should be a motion, Chair, that this item should be
removed from the agenda.
LT: Thank you for your testimony – what is the – do we have discussions on testimony?
SW: No.
LT: No.
SW: If you want to go on to Executive Session, I can discuss with you if, if that’s a matter – I can
discuss with the entire Board. I’d have to have the members of the public vacant, but at this
point you have one more testifier.
LT: OK. We’ll move forward for now then we’ll take care of that. We’re gonna move to our second
testimony, Mr. Tyson Chong from the public is representing Makahanaloa Fishing Association
and he’s testifying on behalf of HogStop as well. Aloha.
TC: Aloha, Commission, my name is Tayson Wong Chong representing Makahanaloa Fishing Assn, I
am against HogStop and the reason why I am against HogStop is because our – let me discuss
my background a little bit – I studied environmental science and biology, hunter-gather
fisherman, farmer, kalo and kalo farmer. I do pig trapping myself, to me this is a bigger problem
than just the pigs – we’re forgetting about our streams, native plants and animals, particularly
our people as well, yeah, especially on the aina, how can we take care of this pig problem – I
think it’s more than a pig problem – I think this is a problem in general that we need to address
and if we cannot address that what are we even trying to fix? You know, to me, it’s like we the
people – we’re trying to get rid of these hogs, right, and part of the problem but I think it, with
this, you know, from what I hear it’s a pretty much biochemical, yeah? That’s a problem that’s
way beyond what a hog can actually do. So, what I’m trying to say is – we need to -
furthermore the problem of just – not just what a hog can do but what can this product do to
the aina, and our people. To me we need to put aina and people over this problem, you know,
always first, and because in the future generations as well as my keiki and yours these are the
ones that going be affected, yeah? So, that’s what I want to say.
LT: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your testimony on behalf of Makahanaloa on the use of HogStop.
We have one more testifier Kyle from the public, he’s testifying on 5b which is also HogStop.
KK: Hello, I’m right here.
LT: Oh, OK.
KK: I’m online. So, I just want to bring up some points with HogStop. They claim to be a 25 B
exempted from EPA registration as a pesticide – and there’s a number of issues with that claim
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that would automatically kick them out of the 25 B exemption and I really, I hope that maybe
the representative can answer some of the questions that I have about it as well but my big
question is – is it actually available for sale in Hawaii and how much is it to buy a bag of it? And
then, if anybody in there knows how many wild pigs are estimated to be in Hawaii because it’s
not only a safety issue – but I think also is it fiscally responsible to try to deal with the problem
this way? Assuming 100-pound pig eats about 3% of its body weight a day and assuming once
it’s trained to one of these HogStop feeders it gets about ½ of its food from there a day – it
would cost the state about – it would, either about 550 pounds of food a year from the feeder
or 11 bags of HogStop. It’s $30.00 a bag which is what corn costs roughly – that’s $330 dollars a
year or about $2,800 dollars per – for an 8 ½ year time that that pig would be in a reproductive
age and that’s for a 100-pound pig. So, if – online I found about estimates of 400,000 pigs in
Hawaii – if you were to try to keep all of those sterile it would end up costing us about 1.1
billion dollars to do this or $132,000,000 million dollars a year for 8 ½ years. It’s not fiscally
responsible or likely that this product would even be successful at what its aim is to do and, as
far as safety stuff, has anybody at HogStop or any independent person cut open a pig that’s
been fed HogStop and for gossypol I don’t – they haven’t shown us any tests that have done it
and I’m not aware of any that have done it but the National Institute of Health has tests that
have been published about them testing rats that have been fed gossypol and the highest
concentrations were in the organs, the blood and then the meat. And the lowest
concentrations were in the testes. So that means for – in order for the gossypol to get to the
testes where it would be effective at keeping the pigs as a contraceptive – it would have to be
in the meat already so there’s a definite safety risk of eating gossypol to humans and this
product has not been fully tested for safety as far as anything that I’ve been able to find or any
studies that I’ve been able to see, so… I just think this is a really bad product to be trying to
bring into Hawaii and maybe if the distributor is unable to recognize that maybe it’s time for
the state to make a law to keep it out of here. That’s all I have to say.
LT: Thank you, sir, for your testimony.
RD: One question to Kyle… Can we have his last name.
KK: Yeah, Kettle.
RD: Thank you.
SW: And you have another one.
LT: Moving forward we have one more from the public. Clayton Kubo, on agenda 5B – HogStop.
CK: Clayton Kubo. No, we had a meeting about this, estimated about 2 years ago and do you guys
understand what is secondary poisoning? You know, I really hope that you guys gonna realize
that even in vegetables, yeah, you poison vegetables – the poison gonna lead to the human –
gonna lead to the environment. So, in a way, we all should start realizing that if this thing is
gonna affect the pig – it is definitely gonna affect the human, and the land. Mahalo Nui, Aloha.
LT: Mahalo.
SW: Chair, that’s all the testifiers online.
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LT: OK. Thank you. Moving forward, can I call for an executive session? I would really want to
figure out this…
SW: Someone would have to move to enter an executive session to discuss \[unclear\] attorney the
Board’s rules, responsibilities, liabilities, within the…
?: I wanted to go against the HogStop too. I didn’t know I would have to sign up to speak or
whatever…
SW: You want to submit testimony?
?: Yeah, basically, I’m against the HogStop.
SW: One second, the Chair has to recognize you.
LT: OK.
?: Excuse me, what?
SW: The Chair has to recognize you. One moment.
LT: Can you please write your name – first and last name down in the Chat and what item you
would like to testify on – if it’s HogStop that item is 5B. And once you input that I can recognize
you and have this paper filled out so you can be added on to the recording of the minutes,
thank you.
?: I don’t know how, where the Chat is on here. It’s me, Kanoe.
SW: It’s up to you, Chair.
LT: OK, we’re gonna move forward with this community member who wants to testify on behalf of
5B which is HogStop – this is Kanoe on Zoom. You have two minutes and 30 seconds.
K: OK, yeah, my name is Kanoe and I’m against HogStop. I remember them trying to bring it in and
we all had like a meeting a while back like Clayton said and, yeah, I’m still against it, it’s not
good for the pigs or our people that gather especially for our animals who hunt for us, I’m
against it. That’s all.
LT: OK. Thank you, Kanoe, for your testifying. We’re gonna move forward.
RD: I’d like to make a motion to go into Executive Session to talk about the agenda item of 5B.
SW: With the Board’s attorney…
RD: Yes, \[Unclear\]
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Action: R. Duerr motion to move board into Executive Session to discuss item 5B with board attorney.
Seconded by C. Okumura Motion passed by poll vote with 6 ayes, 1 excused and no nays.
LT: We have a motion to move forward with the executive session and a second to that motion.
Can I ask everyone that’s not in the Commission to step outside please.
CO: Second.
SW: I believe we need a vote. You need a discussion on the vote and then it’s official?
LT: OK. Any discussion? OK. We’re taking a roll call vote starting from District – 1.
RD: Aye,
LT: District – 2?
PD: Aye.
LT: District – 3, aye. District – 4?
BL: Aye.
LT: Five and six are vacant. District – 7 is not here. District – 8?
CO: Aye.
LT: And District – 9?
JA: Aye.
LT: OK. We have all ayes, thank you guys.
\[EXECUTIVE SESSION\]
SW: One second, let me put everybody back into the waiting room - and then we can start.
RD: Can we adjust this camera a little bit it so it’s….
?: Yeah, right on…
?: There we go.
SW: I’m sorry, this is gonna take a second – I have to put everyone individually inside. OK, so
presently I have the Board, I have the host, which should be this computer that’s recording and
then I have Barbara. So, we should be able – we’re in Executive Session. So, we can discuss the
matter. Um, Justin, if you want to unmute your mic too – you can be more freely in this
discussion.
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LT: You know, last night I was putting out videos on social media and telling people to – when you
talk – this is – get your point – your three main ideas, yes, I like this, I don’t like this, and then
give the three reasons why and, you know…
LT: Thank you. Aloha, thank you guys for waiting. We just had to clear some stuff up. I appreciate
everyone waiting outside and making this important in their life. So right now, we’re just
getting everybody back in online and on Zoom. We had to have everyone leave the room, so
this is gonna take about a minute left.
SW: So, Chair, we’re back in open session officially at 9:38 a.m.
4. COMMISSIONER REPORT BY DISTRICT:
LT: OK. Aloha everyone, welcome back, we’re moving forward and we’re going right into our
Commissioner Reports by District. We haven’t had one of these in a couple of months, so this is
a chance for us to understand our local districts and what’s going on inside. So, we’re gonna
start off with District – 1, Mr. Robert Duerr.
RD: OK. District – 1, we met with Heather Kimball and we’ve talked about some of the issues of
Hamakua – which, Waipio – Waipio’s another two years out, they’re still working on the road,
ah, it’s to be remembered that, it was a lawsuit of users, fishers, surfers, and other groups that
brought the County to opening the access, the other issue was Hakalau. Hakalau is a ten-year
shut down because of a state mess-up of allowing lead to be put in the soil. The state is not
taking any responsibility for closing a public park and in effect – which is affecting hundreds if
not thousands of local families who cannot use that park. It was brought up about – is there a
mitigation package for this or should they be a mitigation issue, there was no comment. Then
we moved on to Pepeekeo – the purchase of the – right now there are some issues on some on
access – the owner/developer is kinda doing a dance on what can and cannot be used, that
seems to be problem – and then there’s also the issue of the County’s got a proposal of a 50-
acre purchase in the public lands program but if there’s an issue of ash, pollution coming from
the coal heap then it’s off the table, in any regard I think we should have the fishing group in
Mr. Chong or Blake come forward into the future. The update on the dredging – the dredging is
behind schedule. It’s totally affecting the ahi season this is a great fishing season – ahi is in very
close – the large commercial guys are not able to get their boat out – American Dredging has
been awarded the contract. Ed Underwood, who has been completely missing in action is head
of DOBOR, was called to task by Representative Richard Onishi last week, for totally insulting
the people of Hilo saying that they were the people who were looking to get the funds and
didn’t get it from the legislature. In any regard, it’s supposed to start yesterday, it’s gonna close
thth
tomorrow from the 19 to July 12 for coral spawning so hardly likely this project starts
sometime in late July, early August. That’s all I have.
LT: Thank you, sir, for the update we look forward, thank you. Moving on to District – 2.
PD: Nothing.
LT: Ah, nothing to say from District – 2. Ah, moving on to District – 3.
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LT: Right now in District – 3, \[unclear\] the sewer plant down in Keaukaha – Keaukaha is our only
fishing village in Hilo and, and Suisan is out but according to the Mayor from a statement he
made last week that our sewage treatment plant is one major earthquake away from dumping
out two-million gallons right in to Keaukaha, right into our only fishing village on the East side
of Hawaii. Um, a major earthquake is a 4.0 and we get that almost every day in Puna, a single
one, so that’s how we treat our fishing village and the reef fish and the ahi – you cannot, we
cannot get to that right now. Another one is from – since they’re renovating the back of King’s
Landing and they have their Maha project going on a lot of the hogs from Keaukaha are moving
towards Panaewa in to the zoo so this past month I did an eye count of driving from Puumaile
all the way around to the airport and I counted 57 hogs or feral pigs right on the side of the
road and even driving into the airport right now you’ll see all the litters coming out, yeah, it’s
me and my kids stop all the time – but the fencing is, you know, it’s driving all of the animals
back into town, back onto Laukapu Street, back to Aloha gas station ‘cause that’s the only way
they can run back into the military area, I guess we spoke about Suisan and that’s it for me,
District – 3, thank you. Moving on to District – 4, Mr. Brian Ley.
BL: Brian Ley, District – 4. Still got pigs. Still no sign of \[unclear\] getting moving or starting any time
soon even though it’s been years, and they keep dangling that carrot in front of us. Ah, one
other issue is Mauna Kea, I think, involves everybody – so I’m \[unclear\] twice, the waters – one
broken water is completely broken, and the vast majority of the bird waters were so filled with
rocks that the birds can’t get any moisture out of it. I re-sent and told them about it – 3 weeks
later I was back up there – still broken – this time I was checking every water – I think I found 3
that were working properly, I cleared out a bunch, got most of them working except one – saw
three different state trucks driving around there so I don’t know why they can’t stop and check
these waters while they’re up there, I have no idea who’s responsible for these things. I was
hoping the DLNR guy that said he was gonna be here was gonna be here today to find out
who’s responsible for these things cause we’ve got, we’ve got chicks on the ground, we’ve got
a dry season, this is critical – the one water that was working the first time I looked up there
had 8 hens and about 25 chicks around this one water, so, these are crucial and the fact that
the DLNR is not maintaining these things like they’re supposed to is just sad, especially with the
bird season and the dry season and everything, but that’s it for my report, thank you.
LT: We expect a super dry year. Thank you for that information. Moving on to District – 8, Miss
Cortney Okamura.
CO: Hey, everyone. Quick announcement that tomorrow there’s gonna be a West Hawaii Pakuikui
scoping meeting put on by the Division of Aquatic Resources, so that’s gonna be available via
Zoom and also at the West Hawaii Civic Center, I did forward the link and information on to
Barbara, ahead of the meeting, so if you’re interested, Barbara can forward you the link to Join,
so the basic quick description is that the take of the species is currently prohibited in West
Hawaii under a 2-year moratorium that’s apt to expire in December of this year. They’re still
early in the rule making process and no new rules have been decided so far but, if you have
comments or questions this would be the place to attend. Secondly, I believe we had a brief
discussion at the last meeting about invitation from Chair Heather Kimball to send a
representative of GMAC over to the County Council meeting – her request is that we talk about
the types of reports and content of reports that GMAC is providing to the County Council, and
so, after discussing with Commissioner Duerr we thought we would go ahead and make a
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motion to add this item to the agenda for the next meeting so that we could get
Commissioners input on their thoughts and ideas before we go to the meeting with the County
Council. And then, if, Chair is available to attend, great, if not, I can attend as Vice Chair. We
can then be at least armed with the desires of the Council and our facts and ideas on what we’d
like shown there and then, can move from there, so if this is an appropriate time to make a
second or to make a motion than I’d like to do that, but if not, we can wait till another time to
add it. And that’s all I have for my report.
LT: OK. Thank you. Do we make that motion now or?
SW: Well, I don’t think a motion is necessary. Yeah, because you guys are going to have at the next
agenda you’re going to talk about your next quarterly report anyway, so you could probably do
it during it by discussion.
CO: Perfect timing, then, OK.
LT: Thank you very much for your update – and we’re moving on to the last update, District – 9?
JA: Unfortunately, I don’t have anything to report. I’ve been rehabbing after two months of brain
surgery, so I’ll be back at it – back outdoors seeing what’s happening next month.
LT: OK. Thank you. \[Unclear\] All right, thank you for all the updates. Moving on…
RD: One comment – the Chair of the County Council said that if when we make a presentation that
the public will also be allowed to give testimony or comments at the same time. It will also be a
public hearing.
LT: OK. Thank you for that update. Moving on to the next item on the agenda.
SW: \[Unclear\]
LT: Ah, so…
SW: \[Unclear\]
LT: Next month?
SW: Yeah, call, but you have to call it and move it to next month.
LT: OK. Moving on to item 5a. Clean Water Act Enforcement and Policy Implications presentation. I
think he had an emergency or had to drop out for some reason so we’re gonna table this
presentation next month. Ah, do I need a?
SW: If you want to make it formal you can ask for motion, but as Chair you can move the items…
LT: OK. I just move it myself, no motion needed. Ah, second item, this is item that we all came to
listen to. Presentation 5b, Kaui Lucas representative from Kaulike Project, presenting education
of HogStop and the science behind its efficacy as a contraceptive for feral ungulates.” She was
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actually referred to us by the Council Member from District – 2, so that they, I guess they
wanted to hear what she had to say as well.
SW: Chair Kimball, yeah…
LT: Chair Kimball.
SW: So, you could come to the front…
LT: Yes, ma’am, aloha. You can come right here, anywhere you can get on the camera, or you
know… Thank you for coming and presenting today so we all can learn, you know, this is a plan
proposed to Puna, and a lot of the people in Puna don’t really have experience. The district is –
a lot of people are moving in – buying property from around the world – fences are going up
and so this was a part of the mock plan that they came up with and we’re trying to just educate
the community on their task force that they created and the measures that they, you know,
potentially could take. So, thank you.
SW: So, I’m sorry, she needs to log in so that she can share her – my understanding is she has a
PowerPoint…
KL: I do, and I just wanna thank you all for showing up and if ever that was proof of why I need to
be here. Those were the comments, so thank you for showing up. OK, let’s see.
LT: Aloha everyone, like I said, before I mentioned – the GMAC Commission – we talked about
HogStop two years ago, we decided that we as a Commission we don’t support HogStop. We
don’t support any kind of, you know, control over our wild game animals. We are a pro-wild
game commission. We’re started to protect our wild game. A lot of the people are part of the
Commission we eat the animals that are out there – and so I just wanted to let everyone know
that the views and opinions here are not of the Commission. We already have the statement
that we wrote in July 19, 2022. It’s a part of our package if you guys go on top of the County
website with GMAC you guys can find this letter, and I just wanted to make that know that
GMAC, you know, we support for pro game animals, so thank you.
5. PRESENTATION:
a. Stephen Holmes, representative from Sierra Club Hawai’i Island Group,
presenting “Clean Water Act Enforcement and Policy Implications”.
b. Kaui Lucas, representative from Kaulike Project, presenting education
of “HogStop and the science behind its efficacy as a contraceptive for
feral ungulates”.
KL: I’m Kaui Lucas, I live on Oahu. Born and raised there. The sole distributor for Hawaiian Islands
for a product called HogStop. None of which I have sold so that was somebody’s question, and I
haven’t pursued it because the dis-information that came out two years ago was so violent I
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was personally threatened and, there was a members in my household were quite afraid. So, I
did what I felt was the right thing to do. I checked in with my kumu in the Hawaiian community
– asked for advice – and I took it. That’s the important part. And then I was invited to give a –
to be on a panel a couple months ago – at Hawaiian Shores because they were, Council
Member Kierkiewicz was also there. I am so grateful that I had that experience. I wasn’t
intending on being a presenter, actually, I was just attending. Take the temperature and find
out, you know, what the people know what’s going on in the community because the last two
years I’ve been getting phone calls – desperate phone calls – 90% have been from Hawaii
County – but I’ve gotten a whole bunch from Kauai. This year as well as Maui and Oahu, of
course. So, people don’t call me unless they’re desperate and I have been doing what my kumu
said – collecting stories and I feel like it’s time for action. In September, I participated in the
Hawaii Farm Bureau convention, which was held here in Hilo actually. And we did farm visits.
SW: And I’m sorry, can we, can you circle this back to what is the Kaulike project.
KL: OK. I will. So, the Kaulike Project came out of that because the point is not to make money –
the point is to solve the problem. And fertility control is a vetted method of addressing wildlife
populations internationally. I have worked with people in three countries now who are looking
at it in different ways and there’s just a lot to be learned. It’s not the only way, but it’s really
hard to be effective if it’s not a component in certain species, so, Kaulike Project is not about
the pigs. It’s about the effects on us as humans of having these large populations that are
spreading disease and causing erosion and you guys know more than me what the issues are.
So, some places use toxicants – poisons – I don’t think that’s appropriate for Hawaii. I just
don’t, but if people decide that’s what they want to do – so be it. But we need to use
something. So Kaulike Project is looking at providing – first off information and materials so
people can understand the issues in a more holistic way, and the way where we’re going to
work this is in addition to education and research – research is really important – but to be
effective in this – one has to be community engagement – as you know from your fisheries –
that’s what works – we know that works in Hawaii. I am also a member, and I am a
commissioner on the Legacy Land Conservation Commission and that allows me to – like you
guys – hear firsthand like boots on the ground what is going on – so, it’s not about the money,
it’s about how do we come together and have civil discussions and come up with a game plan
on what’s gonna work for everybody. Specifically – I have a lot of learning to do about what is
actually happening – this is what I would, you know, I can do my research, but, like, what are
we going to do, like, what, I don’t know where the county is. When I was asked to speak on
that Hog panel there was – in Puna – there were – there was fencing, and I know from my work
on the Legacy Land Commission when DLNR prices out fencing it’s 30 to 70 dollars a foot and
may think that’s good for about 10 years. So, OK, it’s effective but moderately. According to
this, putting up fences and hunting, yeah, well, we know whatever we know isn’t enough,
we’re not protecting, we’re not protecting our agriculture and we’re not protecting properties.
And this is a slide from the \[unclear, sounds like Box\] Institute – which is probably the biggest
organization internationally that addresses wildlife fertility control. And you can see what
happened here, but I just want to bring what’s down here – so Germany is half the size of Texas
– they’re really good at \[unclear\] so to keep a population of \[unclear\] feral pigs at the same
level you have to cull 70-90% per year. So, in the case of Germany, that means 822,000 that’s a
lot. I don’t think we have \[unclear\], I mean, we don’t have as many as they have but even at
400,000, if we want to go with that, that’s a lot of hunting – lotta hunting – so, there, I know
one of the things I heard today in the room was really a lot about the safety of the mix, so
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what’s in the bottle – what HogStop actually is? I want to say HogStop is not the only thing
Kaulike Project is looking at. We’re looking at also the Corral Traps Keep Rings and having them
available \[unclear\] cause they’re pretty expensive. So, what is HogStop? It has five ingredients:
corn, paakai \[salt\], I think everybody knows those 2 things so I don’t have to do that – then
\[unclear\] cotton seed meal you can buy at the feed store, it’s an excellent fertilizer, and
\[unclear\], OK, the other – he’s gonna explain this – this dry molasses – also sold as a fertilizer,
this is how, this is the attractant, this is why the pigs want to eat the corn and stuff. We have a
lot of other stuff here that’s really yummy – so – anyways….And then, the \[unclear\] ingredient
is cotton seed oil. This is a bottle of it that’s sold as a skin moisturizer and \[unclear\] they’re
pretty good – that’s how they make \[unclear\] – you fry ‘em in cottonseed oil. So how does it
work? What is it and how does it work? So, Dr. Loper is the guy who formulated this, and I’ll
just let him talk…
SW: So, I’ll just let you know right now that you’re not presently sharing audio.
KL: Oh, shoot. I’ve gotta \[unclear\].
SW: So that was an option when you were doing your share. You may have to stop your share and
re-share your – and it’s usually a button at the bottom that talks about include audio. Is this a
Firefox application?
KL: \[Unclear\]. Audio from video – Dr. Loper - All the ingredients in HogStop are common feed
ingredients that are fed everyday – beef cattle – dairy cattle - they’re common ingredients –
there’s no drugs – no hormones, it’s a, it’s just a common feed ingredients but it’s a
combination and then since the hogs are simple stomach animals it’s more effective on them
than it was even on the dairy \[unclear\]. Says right on the tag what’s in there: corn, molasses,
cotton seed meal, you know, cotton seed oil, and so it’s nothing unusual it’s just makes them in
fertile - it does not sterilize in that department – it doesn’t do that – what it actually does is
knocks the tails off the sperm so they can’t swim – that’s what it really does.
SW: Can you clarify who that person is?
KL: That’s, Daniel Loper. All the ingredients in HogStop are common feed and \[unclear\].
\[technical difficulties\]
SW: Try to continue.
KL: OK. We have that echo, though.
LT: So, share again what is the Kaulike Project, I guess people just jumped on and some people
weren’t clear cause we were talking a lot but just fast kind what is the Kaulike Project?
KL: It’s a known private organization that is missioned to bring balance to the situation we have
with feral populations – feral animal populations.
LT: And what is the ways that you bring balance within that?
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KL: So, education, research, putting up with strategies to mitigate the damage and implement it.
LT: Thank you for the answer to that question.
KL: Yeah.
SW: So, I’ll just let you know that you had taken your speakers off of mute, which is why the reverb
and if you want to continue sharing your presentation you can.
KL: OK. Great. So now I’m sharing them. OK. Let’s move on.
\[Technical difficulties\]
KL: OK. It’s not a poison. It doesn’t sterilize. There are no hormones and no endocrine disruptors. It
really is just those 5 things and then people go, oh, how can that be? How can that be? We’ve
known for a long time that cotton seed oil has a component called gossypol. And gossypol
comes in two different forms: bound and unbound. And it can – the unbound gossypol is the
thing that affects the reproductive cycle. You can bind gossypol by heating. So, I know there are
a lot of cattle people in Hawaii county and so I thought I’d throw these in my brother’s former
was a cattleman here for most of his life, and cotton seed meal is great for cattle and deer, it’s
also good for rose bushes, so, here’s cotton seed meal cubes specifically made for cattle. It’s
inexpensive and it’s good protein. So, cotton seed meal itself has a certain amount of gossypol
in it but there’s a reason the cotton seed is the active ingredient, as Dr. Loper said – he’s a
biochemist by training – and his entire career except for a short stint at NASA was developing
seeds for the cow industry – specifically the dairy industry. He worked with David Wang in
Waianae – anybody knows David Wang – for twelve years he was the consultant. OK, and then
there’s some interesting accusations about what it’s classified as – so there was somebody –
Mr. Kettle, HogStop spent a lot of money having an official response made to him so it’s a little
disappointing to see him, warm up his arguments, anyway, so here we go. So, this is the
USEPA’s minimum risk pesticide page and what a minimum risk pesticide is, is something that
where the ingredients – they have different categories of them like some are non-food use and
some are food-use. They have been vetted – they’ve already gone through the whole \[unclear\]
of whatever and so they’ve been classified and if your product is only using things that have
already been approved then that is a way of getting your approval, so, this is the way that
works, and the blue line is cotton seed oil. OK. This, I don’t know how well know Pig Brig is but
the Hawaiian Shores community association with their – through the Malama Puna, they
purchased a Pig Brig and to my knowledge they haven’t used it, but it is, it is by all counts an
excellent tool – the Aphis guys, USDA Aphis - they’re using them in Hawaii, and they love ‘em.
One of the interesting things at that Puna meeting was that one of their guys – Amadeo – I
forget the last name – they came up with this brilliant thing – it’s a trailer that has a cage on it
and you can now hook up the Pig Brig to this trailer and get the animals out alive so there
doesn’t have to be this mass slaughter and so that’s an interesting Hawaii innovation – we do
that, OK. So, one of the things that Kaulike Project has been looking at is where is something
working – where in the world is something working and, one of the things that’s working is
community engagement and research. And they’re doing that in Australia, and I have just a
little – well…
LT: Just move forward…
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KL: OK. So, they did a study – Penn State – and this group in Southern Queensland – this guy Daren
Marshall – there’s a great video that isn’t that long, where he talks about how they’re doing it
and one of the, oh, shoot, I stopped sharing, um…
LT: Sorry, just because we’re tracking on time I know we have questions.
KL: So really the – this is the meat of it. The only other – they’re doing disease testing – one of the
really interesting things to come out of that Puna meeting was to learn that of the swine that
have been tested on this Island – the ferals – 15% of them are coming up positive for
brucellosis which causes abortions in and can be transmitted to cattle and humans, actually, I
don’t know that it causes abortions in humans, but it certainly does in cattle. So that is
something I wasn’t aware of but there you go, and this is what keeps me awake at night. If you
follow that QR code there’s a really stunning set of images of I think all of them are from Hawaii
county, maybe not…
AA: These photos fenced areas just to clarify the \[unclear\].
KL: Yes, fenced areas - this – no hoofed animals here – unfenced high numbers of hoofed animals.
LT: Where is this again, I’m sorry.
KL: It’s on Hawaii Island.
LT: It’s at the bottom of a lava flow area whatever flow that is.
KL: So, if you take a picture of that, that QR code you’ll see a whole slew of them where you can
see the x-closures and the rapid ohia death’s spread, yeah. So that’s all I have to say.
LT: Thank you very much for that presentation. Thank you for sharing all that information with us.
Right now we’re gonna move forward to a discussion – from the Commission – any questions
or discussion from the Commissioners for the presentation?
BL: Brian – District – 4, what you don’t mention is that cotton seed is not recommended for poultry
or any sort of birds and we’re also not mentioning when you make cotton seed oil that it is
highly processed and it’s removing the gossypol, so this is cottonseed oil in itself. Cotton seed is
toxic. It has to be refined to be fed and even after it is refined it’s not good for birds, we have.
How many endangered birds on the Island, you know, pigs are notorious for being sloppy
eaters – we set up these feeders – what is it doing? There’s no research doing – what it’s doing
to the birds. Native, non-native, game birds or whatever. What it says right on there – when I
went online yesterday and it says do not feed to poultry, do not feed to birds \[unclear\] what
you guys are saying is classic good animal feed. It’s not animal feed for everything \[unclear\] and
brucellosis, that’s a hot topic – brucellosis is species specific \[unclear\] certain type of
Brucellosis, we get this propaganda that the pigs are spreading brucellosis to the cattle – the
cattle already have brucellosis – the question is, is how brucellosis get to the Island – years ago
when it first showed up Florida and Alabama and Hawaii were the only 3 states. How’s it get
here, you know, USDA needs to take some responsibility \[unclear\] Department of Ag for letting
this get in here – stuff like that and, these fencing things – everyone gets these fencing –
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fencing creates problems – all you’ve got to do is go to PTA – you put a fence in – you created
an unnatural system where these animals are now crammed and they have nothing better to
do except root around, which is where the larvae is – it’s in the ground – all it takes is free
anything, removing bushes or whatever causes it, so, I’ve been tired of seeing these little things
from specialists that are just cherry picked and if I’ve – we’ve had this before and we talked
about Puuwaawaa. You’ve got cattle, you’ve got sheep, you’ve got pigs, you’ve got game birds,
you’ve got everything, and the ROD is minimal. And they don’t know why but they’ll pull this
out and say the animals are causing the ROD – well, why isn’t it causing it over here if it’s that
true it would scientifically here. We get these experts that just cherry pick here in these
meetings we’ve been over this hundreds of times…
LT: Sorry for interrupting but do you have a question for her that she can answer right now?
BL: No, it’s just these things you’re saying – you’re showing these results and they’re skewed, the
cotton seed, you don’t mention the fact that they’re removed from the gossypol before they
feed it to the animals.
KL: They actually aren’t.
BL: According to who, Google and everybody else that I’ve looked at they said cotton seed – the
first thing they do when they process it is they remove the gossypol ‘cause it is a toxin. And it
does, yeah, like you said, you didn’t mention the fact that it’s not meant for poultry, for birds –
so there’s a whole thing where we don’t know that that’ll \[unclear\].
KL: Let me, actually we do know. One thing we know is it doesn’t kill them. Unlike…
BL: Just because it doesn’t kill them doesn’t make things – if we sterilize them \[unclear\]. Same
eggs… I mean, look at DDT, it doesn’t kill birds but look at the problems with DDT and that was
deemed safe by the government for many years. I’m just saying there’s a lot of issues, we’ve
hashed this over before and I appreciate you coming in a hostel group environment like this
and \[unclear\] but, there’s a lot of things and like you said this Commission has been said a lot of
stuff, and there’s a lot of things and like the fencing and stuff like that.
KL: Happy to respond when you’re willing to let me respond.
BL: All right. Feel free…
KL: OK. I totally agree about fencing. Right now – that’s the only thing that’s effective in protecting
the native species and protecting crops somewhat and it’s not – there’s a fence going up
behind me that I hate because there’s been so many native plants planted and now they need
to be protected. So now, for the first time ever, my family has been there since the 1800s –
there’s fencing going in the back of the valley because of the pigs. Birds, yes. Gossypol is
effective – what happens - and they formulated this for swine because Dr. Loper lives in Texas –
there didn’t used to be a problem – there wasn’t then there became a problem, so he knew
how to do it, so he dealt with it. It says that don’t feed it to poultry – but then if you feed it to
poultry the eggs don’t hatch, and the yolk is green. It does not kill the birds, unlike pigs, which
do kill birds. All our ground nesters, there’s nothing more dangerous for them than the pigs.
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RD: Chair, I got a couple of questions.
LT: Yes, your name?
RD: Duerr, District – 1. Yeah, thanks for coming. Couple of questions. You’ve mentioned that you
worked with three countries. What are those countries?
KL: I worked for organizations in three, I’ve been in contact with organizations in three different
countries: Germany, Australia and the UK, just because they’re doing work on it, you know.
RD: And then how about your board – who’s on your board?
KL: On my board?
RD: Yeah.
KL: The person who introduced me to HogStop, Alex Thompson, who lives in Texas.
RD: OK. My question – have you filed a 990 – have you filed a report.
KL: Not yet.
SW: I’m sorry, can the questions be related to the presentation.
RD: Yeah.
KL: We got the IRS determination letter this week.
RD: OK, great. Do you have a website?
KL: Not yet.
RD: Not yet. And you have board members?
KL: Yes.
RD: Are they all HogStop people?
KL: No.
RD: No. OK. Great. The other thing is – why do we care when about you talking about HogStop
when you’ve never sold the product.
KL: I have not sold any because of the you…
RD: But are you going to sell the product in the future?
KL: I am going to do the work to research and educate and I don’t have to sell any HogStop.
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RD: OK. Great. Do you have a business plan on your HogStop venture, like how much you’re going
to sell, where you’re gonna sell it – do you have a business plan on that?
KL: It’s not about the business…
RD: OK.
KL: The business is creating balance, so it’s creating all the profits – guess where they go? Land
conservation in Hawaii.
RD: Great. You say HogStop doesn’t – it’s EPA approved, is that true?
KL: Yeah, do you want to see that slide again?
RD: No, no. I’m just, yes, it is.
KL: It is classified – it is approved as a minimum risk pesticide.
RD: OK. Does the State of Hawaii have any requirements for HogStop to be approved?
KL: No, I did check with Department of Ag and if it is classified by the USEPA, if it meets their
qualifications, automatically the State of Hawaii accepts it.
RD: OK. Great. Thank you, that’s all.
LT: Thank you, District – 2, moving on to any other Commissioners have any questions for our
presenter online?
CO: I was wondering if there’s been third party testing on this and if we might have links to some of
the studies that may have been referenced or is there any other testing that’s been done that
can help demonstrate its efficacy – like the one you were saying about the eggs and those
things – if those are available studies that we can have access?
KL: I can ask Dr. Loper. He is in declining health, but I will reach out to them and see if there’s – if –
what kind of studies. You know, but I will reach out to them and see if there’s – if what kind of
studies - you can just, I, I mean, what they’ve sent me is you can just Google it, gossypol
studies, it’s been around for so long, it’s used internationally in animal feeds for more than 50
years so there’s not a lot of mystery about this – it’s been – Mr. Kettle used 30 year old product
– so don’t use that – use the more recent stuff.
LT: OK. If there’s no more questions from our Commission…
BL: One more question, Brian Ley, District – 4. Has your non-profit group looked into a game
management and, more liberal gun rules and legalizing snares as far as controlling these
ungulates or we just \[unclear\]. You guys need to look into that option?
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KL: Not as a body but I, myself, have. Snares I don’t – I think they’re illegal for a reason – maybe
not in Hawaii County but on Oahu.
BL: No, they are illegal.
KL: They are legal?
BL: Illegal.
KL: Illegal, oh, OK.
BL: And that’s why we have a pig problem ‘cause they made it illegal.
KL: Well, you know…
BL: Yeah, because they’re effective and they work.
KL: But they’re not nearly as effective as a Pig Brig and one of the reasons that, that small scale
trapping doesn’t work is the pigs, as you know, are smart. And they learn to avoid the traps. So,
when the reason Pig Brigs are so effective is that you get the whole sander – so you don’t –
you’re not – you don’t have the escapes teaching the other pigs not to go there – so Pig Brigs
are awesome.
BL: That’s cause they’re \[unclear\]. They’ll figure it out cause they’re more intelligent than half the
people.
KL: Yeah, \[unclear\].
LT: Thank you, sir, if there’s no more questions, um, there’s a question?
RD: One more question, one last question. How does HogStop – if we know it’s an effective on hogs
and perhaps other animals – how does it affect people if they eat meat that has HogStop in it?
KL: OK. It doesn’t but you don’t have to take my word for it. Let’s see, are we still – I have a video
from Dr. Loper talking about it, but I don’t want to take time…
RD: It doesn’t, it doesn’t, that’s self-sufficient.
KL: So let me, let me explain why it doesn’t and that is that the gossypol – first off – the animal has
to eat a certain amount in a certain amount of time for it to be effective and HogStop is not fed
to them like food – it is only given intermittently and that is really crucial, so you don’t have –
you’re not paying for it to feed them – you’re paying for it to be birth control. So, you only give
it for a few days and then you don’t give it for a few weeks. And then you do that again. And it’s
a cycle. And the active ingredient comes out does not stay in the animals’ tissue. It is wholly
excreted within 5 days so you…
RD: If the hog is shot on the first day, the same day that the hog has eaten HogStop and perhaps
the hog has eaten more HogStop than HogStop should be eaten – does that affect people?
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KL: No. So, the reason…
RD: How do you know that?
KL: Well, you can believe – you can do the research – certainly the Lopers – just cause they have it
around – they feed it to their pigs and they eat ‘em, so, um, those, it can’t. Let me, let me
explain why it can’t. The reason it works so well on pigs is that pigs have an 8-week sperm
cycle. Humans don’t. Fresh batch as needed. So, you can’t disrupt it. So, you can’t get enough
in a pig to stay in its tissue so that if you eat it raw – because, of course, cooking it is going to
\[unclear\] gossypol. I mean there’s like six different ways – it just - it can’t work. If it did, we’d
have a real problem because it is being used as an animal feed ongoing and has been for
decades.
LT: OK. We have one more question from Commissioner Okumura.
CO: Sorry, one more. I was thinking back to Kyle who gave testimony earlier. Could you address his
question about the costs – were you there for that part, I couldn’t see…
KL: I was and, you know, I don’t even, that’s not even relevant, I mean, I did say I haven’t sold them
– so how is that relevant?
CO: I’m sorry. My question was about like if it were to be implemented like how he would think it
would cost billions of dollars based on the process and all that.
KL: I have no idea how he came up with that but, I don’t think he was thinking intermittent feeding
for one thing, and the Kaulike Project is really looking at this as – we’re not trying to eradicate
pigs – you’re not gonna do that – we’re not trying to eradicate – maybe we’re gonna decide – it
depends on what the community comes up with but basically we have to find areas where it’s
OK for the pigs to be and decide the areas it’s not OK for the pigs to be. And where it’s not OK
for the pigs to be through a combination of fertility control and trapping – we can move them
to where it’s OK to be or use the meat for other products. So, I’m sorry, what you were asking –
about Kyle’s about the cost – yeah, there are too many factors that come into that for me to
give you any kind of a sensible answer.
CO: So, it really would come down to like if you were, for example, saying we have this fenced area
potentially and we’re going to do eradication or movement to another area – where this group
in this area – and then that’s how you would determine the cost of eradication based on how
much would be needed for that particular area, is that how that works?
KL: I hadn’t thought of it that way, but I suppose you’re right so one of the significant costs is the
feeder and, I’m working with folks to come up with more of a DIY situation because, I know I’m
gonna \[unclear\] people in the hunting community who are really good at that kind of stuff, and,
and certainly the farmers are, so, ah, to lower the cost, otherwise the feeders that I’ve seen
that are good are quite expensive, so that would be another cost to take in but what is the cost
of the extinction of amakihi? Like we’re not, we don’t know how to, we’re not quantifying
those things…
CO: Thank you…
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LT: Thank you, any other questions from our Commissioners? No, we have – we have a comment
from one of our local trappers – who is, you know, mostly hired by Puna Community to trap out
there, you have 30 seconds.
AA: Abraham, District – 5, ah, was District – 5, Chair. Yeah, so, as to the Commission and to the
Chair – maybe you guys can vote for write a letter against HogStop again and maybe advise the
Mayor to not support this again, State does not support it – we talked to DOFAW many times
and the state does not support it – they don’t plan on using it – so what they said for the last
meetings \[unclear\] and as far as the Pig Brig, the trailer thing that Armadillo guys have – that’s
not new technology – that’s \[unclear\] you got ‘em right there.
KL: Great.
AA: It just goes to show that \[unclear\] thank you.
LT: Thank you, Chair… Ah, no more questions?
SW: One more, I’m sorry. I’m trying to write it out.
KL: I have a request for Corporate Counsel. I’m a little concerned because there was – what was
pretty obviously business disparagement happening previously – if somebody doesn’t
understand they don’t have the information that’s an issue that can be addressed through
education, but if the information is there and the false accusations are made, then that’s a
liability.
TL: Yeah, I just got one…
RD: Chair, could you write that concern in a letter to Corp Counsel on just what you…
SW: I’m sorry. Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. I only advise the Board; I don’t advise
members of the public your concern is noted.
KL: OK.
SW: However, I only advise the board.
KL: I got it. Thank you.
LT: OK. We have one more question just for clarification. There’s no proof, no long-term studies of
affected meat consumption – how will distrust affect the use of the food source, you know,
Puna, one of their plans they got the slaughterhouse, they wanted to sell the meat, they
wanted to eat the meat. I think this goes towards what one of their plans are with eating the
meat and using the meat as a food source.
KL: So that’s predicated on a false statement because all the ingredients have been sold for animal
feed for decades, so it’s not like there’s no research on this – it is approved for animal feed.
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LT: \[Unclear\] In separate, you know, – this is approved for animals feed but…
?: Fertilizer…
LT: …. You know, the fertilizer…
KL: Well, I have a picture of the fertilizer, this is the animal feed – a 50-pound bag – I wasn’t going
to bring a 50-pound bag.
SW: OK. Chair, we have less than 20 minutes.
LT: OK. Anyway, that was an \[unclear\] question. Thank you very much. If there’s no more
questions, thank you very much for coming, I know it’s hard presenting in a room like this all
the time but I really appreciate it – it was a lot of information for all of us thinking and just
understand more about HogStop and in each of our communities, everybody, you guys are
listening it’s important to understand these things because part of the plan on managing the
animals is using these bio controls. So, thank you very much for your presentation. OK. We’re
gonna move forward.
SW: Chair, I’ll just note for the record GMAC’s – as far as the plan going forward that’s not GMAC’s
proposed plan. So, I just wanted to make that clear.
LT: Yes. OK. Yeah. Making it clear again, the plan is for Puna Community – this plan was designed
and created by the Puna community – their board – their community association and a County
Council person. Ah, so this is their plan and GMAC just wanted to present this information
briefing for the community to understand what HogStop’s for. Thank you, guys very much.
We’re moving on to New Business. 6a. Investigative committee, regulations affecting Keauhou
Bay and logistics issues and potential solutions Committee Chair Miss Natalie Reynolds. She is
excused today so we’ll be tabling that to the next meeting next month. Moving on to
Announcements – Next meeting will be held July 16, 2024, 9:00a at the Aupuni Street,
Puna conference room. Oh, sorry, I missed one under 6a. Discussion on the Turkey Hunting
Regulations Affecting the County of Hawai’i, presented by Commissioner Robert Duerr.
6. NEW BUSINESS:
a. Discussion: Turkey Hunting Regulations Affecting the County of
Hawai’i, presented by Commissioner Robert Duerr.
RD: Yep, ah, that was a letter that came from Dick Hoeflinger who’s an avid turkey hunter. And
essentially for the last ten years or more he’s been doing the statistics on turkey hunting, and
he had some concerns on some regulations being proposed on stopping turkey hunting in the
fall and then also putting turkey hunting just in on weekends. His concern basically was that
DOFAW is bringing these things forward to the Land Board without discussing with the public,
which essentially is a part of the federal funding to engage the public. Essentially, he feels that,
that it’s discriminating against people who working on weekends, that the hunting season
should be open through the week as well, the other thing too is what he was talking about is
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some kind of game management, discussion on limiting the amount of hens that can be shot in
the fall and essentially to allow them to go to the spring season and then breed forward. The
other thing that he brought forward which was very interesting is that more out-of-state
hunters hunt turkey in the spring than state hunters do. And so these hunters are traveling a
long way to come and get a turkey, which, on the mainland can be a, which is a major deal and
so there’s no real, they’re spending money to get here – there’s no real outreach to them –
there’s no real like, hey, how do you get your gun here, hey, you’re here, where do you go, hey,
how about – so I think that’s really an opportunity for DOFAW to…
LT: Guide package or something…
RD: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that was his main thing. The other thing too is he’s gonna be 90 years
old and he’s the only guy who’s been doing game management – pulling together stats – which
he finds just a little bit discouraging that DOFAW’s not picking that up, but that’s it.
LT: Do you have any recommendations? Should we write a letter of support…
SW: Well, you don’t even know what regulation is.
RD: Maybe have DOFAW come in and do like an overview and just talk about their procedure of
like, hey, what’s going down, yeah.
LT: OK. Thanks for that update on the turkey hunting. Yeah, I agree. I think if people fly in from out-
of-state to go hunt turkeys, we gotta tell them where the turkeys are and get them out of the
areas that we don’t want them in.
SW: Chair. I’m just gonna let you know that we do have we do have Joshua Pang-Ching on the Zoom
who I believe works with that agency.
LT: Yeah, uh-huh.
SW: Said he could speak to address that topic at a different time – a different meeting.
LT: OK. Yes, sir, can we have you back next month? Mahalo. Thank you.
7. COMMITTEE REPORT:
a. Investigative Committee: Regulations Affecting Keauhou Bay and
Logistical Issues, and Potential Solutions, Committee Chair Natalie
Reynolds.
LT: Moving on. Ah, passing number 7, community report regulations affecting Keauhou Bay, Miss
Natalie Reynolds is excused this meeting.
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8. ANNOUNCEMENTS:
LT: Moving on to number 8. Announcements. So next month will be held on July 16, 2024, 9:00 am,
25 Aupuni Street, Puna conference room, Room 1501, Hilo, HI 96720. Yes sir?
PD: Yeah, Pali, District – 2. I was listening to everything today. I’d like to say that I was part of a
lawsuit against DLNR – fencing 14 miles of fence in Kau. And the thing they were doing was
allowing us to hunt by putting a climb over fence and the hunters is fenced area. It’s like
spearing fish in one aquarium.
LT: Yeah.
PD: And about a couple weeks you wipe it out so there’s no inter-breeding so the game don’t get
good game. Ah, so we filed a lawsuit against DLNR and at the same time DLNR was using Ramik
green – Ramik and green was a poison that they put for the rats but the hunters was finding
the Ramik green in the stomachs of the pigs because it would make you thirsty and the pigs
would go to wherever they could drink water which was down the river and they would die
there. So, whatever was in that Ramik green would be going into the water system. So, we
challenged all of that. It took us three years of a lawsuit, ah, the judge ruled in favor of the
state but we stopped the project ‘cause the monies lapsed – so there’s no fencing there in Kau,
so went to this problem about poisoning the pigs and like I said it’s supposed to be using Ramik
green a hundred yards apart but they were putting it like 50 to 25 yards so they made sure that
it got to the pigs and more than the rats and then when they did it for rats, they did the owls in
and they did the ‘Ios in cause they eat the rats.
LT: Just for clarification, this has to do with HogStop and using…
PD: Well, it’s all about fencing.
LT: Yeah, OK, fencing.
PD: These are the problems with fencing not just that that helps the neighbors.
LT: OK.
PD: That’s what they did in Kau. So, I mean, I just wanted to make that point of my experience of all
these years of fighting the state and protecting game, ah, at the same time I’d like to have this
on record that I’m gonna resign from this position because it’s a waste of time. It’s always
been, and corporate counsel doesn’t have the experience in Article 12, Section 7, which is our
rights, our native rights to hunt and she doesn’t have that so they’ll liable be a look out for
native rights to exist if you don’t have a corporate counsel that understands that so I hear a lot
of complaints about your position and I’m resigning because of you, ah, in this thing, so, you
told me to go tell about the Lomi but I want it on record that I’m gonna resign because of your
presence and your attitude toward this Commission.
SW: Deputy Corporation Counsel, Sylvia Wan. Just because you made some statements about my
position I’ll let you know that my position is outlined within the Charter, my role as I provide it
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to the Board is as advisory to the Board to ensure that these meetings are conducted within
the outlines of the law meaning Sunshine Law, Roberts Rules, and within the parameters of the
Charter – that is my role. My role is not as an individual advocate necessarily for the Board or
Board members specific individual positions, that’s not my role, as far as the rule for protecting
native rights – that is a part of the Commission’s duties – with that outline within the Charter.
I’m just…
PD: I had to swear to the Constitution of Hawaii…
SW: Yes…
PD: State Constitution to sit in this position. And the State Constitution has Article 12, section 7…
SW: Yes…
PD: That you don’t have any understanding about…
SW: I do…
PD: So, but then, where is that understanding?
SW: Mr. Palikapu I’m not going to argue with you. I understand that you misunderstand my role and
that’s fine and what you choose to do is also within your rights. As far as, I understand the
comments you made here today was in your role not as a GMAC Commissioner but as in your
previous, or, I guess, continuing role…
PD: It’s a non-profit…
SW: As a non-profit from the Pele Defense Fund – is that correct?
PD: That’s right.
SW: OK. Thank you.
LT: Thank you, sir for your…
RD: You know, you know, Chair…
LT: Your name…
RD: Duerr, District – 1. I just want to thank Pali for, you know, coming here…
PD: For years I’ve been doing this…
RD: No, right, I, for everything you’ve done and for being there and I just want to thank you for
your life’s work.
LT: Thank you. One of the reasons I’m here is because of the things that you did in the past.
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PD: I feel sorry for you guys that you got to deal with this but, ah… I cannot handle ‘em already. I’m
beyond that. I’ve been doing 40 years, native rights.
LT: Yes.
PD: And I don’t see any support from Corporation Counsel on those concepts. And, you know, set
records, set a law that’s now being taught at University, Richardson School of Law…
SW: I’m sorry Mr. Palikapu, I cannot have you actively trying to disparage myself…
PD: I can’t even speak…
SW: …. or the office or, or – no – because what you’re…
PD: Ah…
SW: I’m sorry…
PD: Yeah.
SW: It’s inappropriate, it’s not on the agenda.
LT: Thank, thank you for your comments, since announcements were made, let’s conclude this
meeting. I’d like to have a motion to adjourn, please.
CO: Chair, I just want to say that Josh Pang still had - Joshua Pang still has his hand up. I didn’t know
if you need to…
LT: Oh…
SW: We addressed it.
LT: Yeah, he let us know that he can present on the subject that Duerr was talking about next
month.
CO: OK.
9. ADJOURNMENT (11:00 AM):
RD: I make a motion to adjourn. Robert Duerr, District – 1.
LT: We have a motion, and we have a second to adjourn the meeting right now at 10:54a. I’m just
gonna take roll call vote. District – 1.
RD: Aye.
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LT: District – 2, vacant. District – 3, aye. District – 4?
BL: Aye.
LT: District 5 & 6 are vacant. District – 7, not here. District – 8?
CO: Aye.
LT: District – 9?
JA: Aye.
LT: Thank you, guys, for our meeting, thank you so much for tuning in, everybody online, thank you
for showing up and getting educated on the things that our County is taking care of and trying
to manage. I appreciate all of you guys, aloha.
Respectfully submitted by,
Barbara Kossow
Secretary
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