HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-07-15 GMAC Minutes Final Draft Game Management Advisory Commission
County of Hawai'i
Minutes
Meeting Date: July 15, 2025
Time: 9:00 am to 11:00 pm
Place: Zoom and In-Person 25 Aupuni Ctr., Ste. #1501, Hilo HI
Chair Leomana Turalde called the meeting to order at 9.05 am.
1. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL:
District 1 - Robert Duerr, Present, in person
District 2—Taysen Wong Chong, Present, in person
District 3— Rhon Leomana Turalde, Present, in person
District 4— Brian Ley— Present, in person
District 5 -Vacant
District 6—Vacant
District 7—Abel Aquino— Present via Zoom
District 8—Cortney Okumura — Present via Zoom
District 9—Justin Ackerman— Excused
Quorum Established with 6 in attendance.
STAFF: Kayra Wong, Attorney, Corporation Counsel, in-person
Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist—via Zoom
LT: Aloha, just some housekeeping rules please make sure your cell phone should be turned
off or on silent. For all of us attending here in person please remember to speak towards
the microphone. The microphone should be right here by our computer. So that all of
your statement can be recorded under HRS 92-3, of the Sunshine Laws, GMAC may
remove any person, who willfully disrupts a meeting or prevents — and compromise the
conduct of the meeting. All people that appear before the GMAC are reminded to
conduct themselves in a courtesy manner.
For testimony those in person for those who would like to testify please fill out the public
registration form right here. For those on Zoom, if you would like to testify on any agenda
item, please provide your name and identify which item number you would like to testify
on, in the Chat. Question from the public, for those on zoom, if you have a question put
in the Chat.
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Just going back to Question, it's something that we are mandatory to answer, if we have
extra time, per the Chair and Vice-Chair of the commission we answer questions if we
can, that's not something that we normally do.
Protocol
All GMAC members are reminded that they will be recognized at the appropriate time for
questioning and discussion. Mahalo.
2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS:
LT: We have a couple of people who want to testify from the public today. First up we have
Mr. Steven Araujo from the public, he is representing himself. Agenda item he wishes to
testify on. Request to comment after presentation.
SA: (Steve Araujo) In other words, because subject is new information on the subject, if I feel
I would like to comment or testify after I know what is going on I would be allowed to do
it. That is up to the commission.
LT: Yes, Sir
SA: Justt let you know...
LT: Yep, We can. I'm going to start in front of every new agenda item, then
SA: You mean after the speaker speaks?
LT: Yes, you can
SA: Thank you
LT: We'II get back to ahhh... if you hear at the end—you like wait till the end the last agenda
item?
SA: Yeah, up to the commission
LT: Okay, thank you Sir. That one is on hold. Next speaker from the public...we have...Do we
have any umm...
BK: Chair, Claudia is in the Chat, Claudia Rohr she would like to testify on future agenda items.
LT: Okay, you can provide testimony right now, before we get in our presentation or you can
provide testimony on the next item. Yeah
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CR: Thank you, can you hear me all right?
LT: Yes, ma'am
CR: Okay, I don't want you to look at my morning face. I'm testifying I would like to have you
consider making it an agenda item for GMAC to approach the mayor to ask the county to
enforce the condition in the recorded public access documents for Pepeekeo particularly
everybody knows that He Korea has gate off the vehicular access to the shoreline trail just
South of the plant. I do have a lawsuit about that, we're in circuit court, but in the
document, that's filed it says, the county can remove the gate, and they haven't done so.
I would like you to put that on the agenda, now you have the power and the attention of
the County and congratulations on the General Plan testimony...
LT: Mahalo
CR: Anyway they now have removed the fence with the barbwire at your face, we don't have
to walk down a 10 foot trail that's all bumpy, but, now they have put these logs in the
actual pedestrian entry and they have tied one up and I'm 72 years old and I don't want
those logs to fall on me and break my leg or my foot, It's very,very dangerous, if not even,
I mean, it's totally illegal. I will send that 82-page document to Bob and I have his email,
it's expensive and I bought it from the Bureau of Conveyances and I will show you where
you could take that to the Mayor, I'd like to go too, in case there are questions, but, I ask
that you give up on this whole trying to get council members help in purchasing the
property, I can say more about that later, you're not really purchasing anything we don't
already have a right to. But that doesn't appear to be an actual public solution at the
moment. The real solution is the mayor saying, okay I'm going to direct the police go and
cut the chain on the gate. It's not removing the gate, it's actually just cutting the chain on
the gate, so that we can open and close the gate. And I think it's an obvious solution, it is
written right there in the document. Thank you. So that would be agenda item on the......,
there is more than one problem out in Pepeekeo, but discussing Pepeekeo public access
and the lack thereof, thank you.
LT: All right, ah yes, can we get feedback from the commissioners on that statement?
KW: (Attorney Wong)They can ask questions.
LT: Mahalo Ma'am. We have one of our commissioners, who is part of Makahanaloa Fishing
Association, and he can give you a little more on that.
TWC: Hi Claudia, Tayson Wong-Chong, with District 2. 1 would like to give you notice that I am
part of the Makahanaloa Fishing Association I do deal with the FHC (?) as well for
Pepeekeo. Are you going be by chance at the July 20t" meeting by chance on Sunday?
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CR: I'm not working with the Pepeekeo Makahanaloa Fishing Association period. My position
is all along for all these years since 2003, 1 fought for these public access and the
community has tried to make these private agreements over and over and over and it has
undermined my ability to make these permanent public access and I'm asking that, we
come together and realize that the only way we can actually achieve this, is by standing
together, not trying to go behind each other's backs and negotiating with council people,
etcetera, but just to ask the county to fulfill their obligation in this easement agreement,
that's recorded at the bureau and stand together and get these as permanent public
access. Your children may not live in Pepeekeo, you know, so the fishing association is
always tending to try to work around, get some kind of control over the access, which
leaves people like me out, it undermines the main cause. We want these access, which
we have earned and won in a series of legal entitlements. We want this to be preserved
for the children of the big Island whether they live in Pepeekeo, whether they belong to
the fishing association. So please honor the fact that I respect that you guys are there
and you always, ?????inaudible... when I ask you to. I am trying to work towards your
needs, but I choose to do it as trying to get the public needs. I re-registered PASH, I'm
looking for someone on the Kona side to be on the board, I forgot, I would like you to put
something on there about that too, if you could on your agenda, looking for someone,
but we fight for public access, but I want to say,you guys came out,when I had my hearing
at the board of appeals, and it made a big difference. So you can't do that in court, but
the solution is merely to show the new mayor this provision in the documents and if
anyone tries to tell you, oh we're blocking it because it's unsafe, it's none of their
business, we earned this, it was an entitlement, and we are responsible for our own
safety, when we're walking on the trail along the cliffs. I think you're going to hear this,
but just say, no that was a consideration at the time that we earn these entitlements, so..
TWC: Claudia, Claudia...
CR: I'll end...I'll stop...I'm not going to go to a meeting...
TWC: Claudia, if you can by chance just take my information and I'll touch bases with you. I
understand where you are coming from, I just don't work with just the fishing association,
I do work with the Pepeekeo Association as well for public access, I just want to put that
out there, to give you awareness..
CR: I have been invited, before and to be honest, I'm scared of you guys, because of the way
you worked against the public right before, I'm just scared of getting involved that....
TWC: Claudia if you want to take my information...
LT: Claudia, we'll put his information inside of the Chat, and if you want to reach out to him
you can ....
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CR: Okay, I'm going to put my email in there, and I would like everybody who wants to be on
a group chat to send me their emails.
LT: Yes, ma'am, we will do... thank you very much for that. It's very important Pepeekeo.
Moving on to our next testimony, public testimony. Do we have anyone else?
CF: Mr. Chair this is Chuck Flaherty, I'd like to make a short comment...
LT: Yes, sir you got the com, all you...
CF: Thank you very much. Although it's not specifically on the agenda, I do believe it will fall
under commissioners' reports, with regards to the county council committee meeting. I
also would like to acknowledge the excellent work that the game management
commission did in advocating for the commission and for the purpose of the commission
and I would also like to acknowledge the corporation council ...inaudible.... for her
assistance and the good work, you all did, you'd to be congratulated and keep up the
good work. Take care Mahalo.
LT: Mahalo nui Mr. Flaherty. We appreciate all of your help and support and leadership on
that issue. Okay, next from the public do we have any more public testimony before we
get into our agenda item. Going once,going twice, none seen. Moving forward to agenda
item number 3.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
LT: We didn't have the minutes printed out.
BK: Chair, it's not completed.
LT: Okay... We can table that...We'll get back to it, on our next meeting. Moving forward to
agenda item 4
4. COMMISSIONER REPORT BY DISTRICT:
a. Each Commissioner will provide updates and share concerns about their respective
districts;Commissioners to decide on whether to add those topics at the next meeting and
to invite the public to provide testimonies and presentations at their meeting. Permitted
Interaction Groups may be created at this time. There will otherwise be no discussion or
voting, which will be reserved for when it is itemized on a future agenda.
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LT: Right before we start this, couple of meetings ago we told that we needed to put our
commissioners report on the agenda and the subjects. On the back of our agenda, we
got a couple of items that would actually go into the district report in our next meeting.
Anyway, we can start with our district 1 report. Mr. Robert Duerr
RD: District 1—Hilo Trollers ran their shootout/troller tournament. Basically, Ono were spotty
one at time kine. Mahi Mahi were really small, you know 5 Ibs, they were pretty much
scattered throughout Kumukahi to Ninoole. The record levels of flying fish, small flying
fish are everywhere in launching in little schools, like 10 to 20 fish. For small Ahi,Ahi have
been coming up around a 100 Ibs. mostly males, so whether it's a little unusual for the
season, one marlin came up, and that was about a 100 Ibs. There's fish out there, but
there are a lot of baits. You know, traditional so that's basically. The other thing, I
testified on the General Plan as a citizen, and the County of very supportive. The County
was very supportive. The next part, is how we go to actually partn items, and how do we
actually you know, shape it up. Likely there's going to be give and take, and maybe some
things still need to be added. One other thing too is East Hawaii fisheries group, there's
evidently a parasite that is affecting Ahi, and essentially the parasite, what happens the
parasite is alive, but when the fish dies, the parasite then becomes alive and starts eating
the flesh. So, they're looking at Suisan and others are looking into that. That's all I have
commissioners. Thank you very much.
LT: Thank you for that update. This parasite thing let's track that a little more...
RD: Next month Ryan Okano DAR guy, he knows that and he's going to give an update on his
fishpond, but he can update us on other issues that are important Island wide.
LT: Yes, sir,Thank you very much. That was District 1. We're moving forward to District 2 Mr.
Taysen Wong-Chong
TWC: Morning, District 2 Taysen Wong-Chong with my report. Basically, we had a lot of talk,
reaching out from the public regarding bill 51, with the feral cats with the commission
and everything with that, what they are setting what to do. I can tell you one fact that
more people reached out to me in regard to support, than the folks that actually showed
up in the commission...in the council meeting. We do need and one advantage to that...
one public person reported seeing 9 buried devasted sick cats at the park, so I do not
know what disease, infectious, I do not know what's going on with that. But that is
something to take a look into. As far as for hunting, I've heard good and bad, typical
movement on Mauna Kea is kind of slow right, pigs,though,there is a lot of pigs still going
on, on Hamakua Coast, even though it is out of the district for me. But ummm, I work on
that side. A lot of pigs coming in, but not big like normal, few hundred pounds and over,
not the normal of what we see, like close to 200 hundred. On my farm that I work at, a
lot of pigs but averaging 60 to 80 pounds. So, tome like, where the big guys going at. But
ah...and that's all I have to say for this report...oh yeah one more thing actually, and for
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...inaudible.....org, she suppose to.... inaudible...just basically saying trying key in support
to where,....got get the date...
I forgot the date in my other folder. But possible showing up to the county council for
that bill 51. Making a stand for that and that's ... Looking forward to the Palila report.
LT: Thank you, sir, that was District 2 Mr. Taysen Wong Chong. Moving forward to District
3-that's myself. A couple of updates for District 3 ... In Keaukaha along our beach and
shoreline access, we have new paved parking lots and roads going in, starting with
Onekahakaha Beach, that's the roads. Then another update is our camping situation at
Puhi Bay, we don't got any camping going on this summer. I don't know where
Department of Hawaiian Homelands stand on the camping issue. I know for last year the
permits just to camp down Keaukaha was $600 to $800 dollars per camp site. And it was
mandatory that you have two port a potty per a camp site if you wanted to camp down
Keaukaha. They were trying to mitigate that excess waste that was going to the bathroom
over there, from the campgrounds. Other than that, it's the same thing, same issues with
the pigs, if you guys go to the dump you guys will see pigs on the way in. They put up new
fencing where the recycling used to be, on the right side as you head in right by the back
of the rock quarry. If you go to the airport,you'll also see a big group of pigs, maybe about
20 1 counted last week just driving through the airport coming out of the back from Kings
Landing. That was for that. Again, I did reach out to the mayor, I went up to the mayor's
office, to support my idea of moving the exhaust pipe from Puhi Bay to the back of Kings
Landing by the drop off in the back of Mauna Loa Macadamia Nuts. I think that's going
to be one of my long-term goals, trying to get our exhaust pipe for all of the sewage and
waste waters system from Hilo, Keaukaha, Hilo Bay, which is our Fishing Village, it is the
only reef that we have on this side of our Island. Our big fishing village, our fishing reef
and putting the pollution from our sewer system, only pollutes our aquifers (An aquifer is
an underground geological layer of rock, sediment, or soil that holds and transmits
groundwater in usable quantities.) our fishing grounds.
Last year Hawaii News Now put out a report that the wastewater system it has a bacteria
from Covid 19, the flu virus, all of the human ailments can be found in the exhaust our
Puhi Bay. That kind of goes right back into Keaukaha and gives us things like scabies, if
you guys ever got scabies growing up and you got impetigo, (Impetigo is a highly
contagious bacterial skin infection causing red sores that break open, ooze and form a
thick, honey-colored crust, most often on the face, arms, and legs of young children.) or
Herpes virus 1, skin allergies from Keaukaha, just out of reason, because our poop, our
human waste goes into the water, and that's how it spread amongst our community. So
that's our pipe exhaust in Keaukaha. Moving forward recently there was an emergency
bill passed about energy in America, and that led to more drilling for oil, that gave power
to our Geothermal plant by Hawaiian Homelands, they packed a couple of wells,
geothermal sites on every Island and using this energy crises bill.They're going to be able
to go forward with the 20 million, or how much every money they are asking for to
continue the data collection on the sites, which most of the sites across the Hawaii Island
chain all fall into Hawaiian Homelands property, so they kind of take the lead with that.
And right now, the same energy crises bill is being used to push and open up the power
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plant in Pepeekeo. Right...Pu'u Honua, so their doing the re-negotiation. I didn't get too
deep into the story, it just came out yesterday or the day before, about Pu'uhonua, part
of that was the energy crisis and has to do with Pu'uhonua, and our geothermal plants,
which on Big Island we have three (3). We...did a test well in Kawaihae in Hawaiian
Homes, one up on Mauna Kea, and then we have the one in Puna. That's going, so we
have three (3) on this Island and every other Island has about one. Ummm... Shoots, that
was energy and that is it for District 3 Thank you very much.
LT: Moving forward to District 4 Mr. Brian Ley...
BL: Brian Ley district 4. Good news Pohiki dredging is way ahead of schedule, it's moving
a lot faster than they originally planned. Hopefully we can keep that momentum
going, and we get that one open up soon. Pigs are always an issue, also the
deforestation and lot clearing is going like crazy in Puna, it seems like another boom
town, so a lot of pigs moving,the strawberry guava blight is really taken affect in Puna,
so we'll have to see what happens,when strawberry guava inaudible...I notice....I had
to remove a couple of trees ... it started getting ripe yeah...but we'll see how that will
affect the pigs, yeah. I stopped by the DLNR office, I get a little frustrated I don't get
any answers, I never get any call backs or anything from them...I specifically asked
how many people applied for the sheep removal permit, I know they were offering 16
permits, but I could not get any answers of how many people applied or anything like
that. And we had the eradication of the first and second, I don't have no idea how
many sheep were taken, I heard a rumor from somebody,we need to look into it,they
was hunting up Mauna Kea, and they said there was a helicopter herding sheep,
before the eradication. I'm not sure if that should be allowed or even if legal, or stuff
like that, to herd the sheep during hunting, when people are actively trying to hunt,
and there is flying helicopters moving sheep for easy kill zones. And there is another
eradication at the end of August scheduled. And that's it for my report. Thank you.
RD: Can I share, and add in to commissioner's report, DOFAW has been missing in action, on
any kind of request for information. It's not true of other agencies in DLNR, but they seem
to have a habit here of not responding to questions.
BL: Oh, one other thing here, I went with some friends to mile marker 16, and DOCARE took
the whole...the good zone and the 100 yard.... inaudible....and they wouldn't let body in
there. And like I said, you know...we need...I don't know why they don't have their own
range to qualify, and why they have to use public one, and take the whole thing, without
any notification or anything. So that was kind of little discouraging. I had a friend to ask
about that, he said, no, you guys, after 3:00 pm you can come here. So, we had to go to
the short range, ... sight of the muzzle loaders for the season. So
?: Person did not state his name. Sounds like Steve Araujo. Can I comment on some of this.
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LT: Yes sir,
?: (Steve Araujo) The sheep on the meat salvage, back in the 90's I set it up, there is a
provision in the rules that says, that anyone request meat from DOFAW DLNR...DLNR has
to provide the meat. It says that there, So I don't believe in wasting meat...inaudible...So
I requested all of the meat...for my personal use. So, I requested all of the meat up there
belongs to me. But what I did now... Talk to, at the time it was John Griffen he was the
head of Forestry, and I set it up. Whoever wanted meat or needed meat...had the sheep
accessible to them. Their drop of points suppose to be Kilohana check in station, behind
Mauna Kea State Park, and Hale Pohaku. You do not need a 4-wheel drive. After years
of watching them do it...in the beginning everything was going really smooth. I mean you
could go up there with a bicycle and take you meat, and I told them if there was one (1)
sheep, and had four (4) guys, that sheep had to be quartered so everybody be equal.
Okay, I kind a got overworked, other guys took over, that's when the thing, oh you need
a permit, oh, you need 4-wheel drive...oh you need to drive behind the mountain, that's
when all of that came up. So, I've been talking to the DLNR guy, and said trying to put
things straight...being that I've been reflected to this commission...this commission can
also reflect what I told you on to the DLNR. Because essentially like I said the meat is
mine...
LT: The original deal?
?: (Steve Araijo) Yeah, but I haven't taken one read ounce. It's all, I gave it to the general
public. So, if you guys can put it back into perspective...ummm Steve Bergfeld, was in
forestry at the time, the retired person Jon DeMello, he also knows that, Ron Lockman,
John Griffen, they in a better place...these are people that are still there. That suppose to
know these things, so if you contact and ummm on DOFAW taking over the 16-mile
marker, that's BS. They cannot take over a section of forest for their own private thing.
Turn them in they have superiors, turn them in. ummm do not let, I mean stand your
ground...don't go overboard, stand your ground. You know the State and conservation
guys...okay thank you.
AA: (Abel Aquino) Just a few concerns off the bat. The manta permit although they're good
to have the boats permitted their uncapped, so talking to Capt. Bill Murta, his boat the
Nainoa, down at Keauhou Bay, showing me some footage of an average night out there,
where there can be an upwards of 30 boats, that creates a real problem especially with
swimmers and divers in the waters, in the dark. These boats are on motors, so the props
are spinning forward and backwards. We already had one (1) death out there, and super
concerning, I think the place is overpopulated and we need to consider, regulating the
amount of Manta permits out there. They are also$300.00 bucks'flat rate, which doesn't
make sense with the guys operating, the double haul Wa'a with only about 6 occupants
and the large boats having about 50 upwards of that, maybe the price should be adjusted
depending upon how many swimmers they have in the water at night. Definitely I think
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30 boats they have on one side is too much pressure on both wildlife and super dangerous
for the people enjoying the activity.
Another concern is that I see a lot of chalk and paint on the lava rocks, even north of our
district pass the airport, I'm not sure if it's from the ironman people or what, if you are
driving along the highway, headed towards Waikoloa pass the airport, you'll see a bunch
of Graffiti defacing of our Aina. People are painting on the lava, it might even be chalk,
but it may be permanent if you drive that way you'll see a bunch of white marks, squares,
letters, all kinds of stuff on the lava and that's unacceptable for the public and it's an
eyesore, defacing our natural resource.
The feral cats at Old A's( Maka'eo) I've had a bunch of complaints,from some community
members about that. Super large population down there. They're being fed actively, and
they combined with the mongoose, make an unsightly situation. Especially for the Keiki's
and the people utilizing the run walk trail down there, the run walk path.
The last thing, the cruise ships dumping their waste, close to shore. As I understand it,
they are only restricted half mile to shore. That puts their human waste right back into
Kailua Bay. I know for myself, I got the Staff infection really bad and almost lost my foot.
I had to work with Dr. Alex Totulio and get some pretty aggressive antibiotic, and she was
telling me it's directly from the cruise ship waste being dumped too close to shore. If
there is a way we can start to circulate some information and possibly come up with a
better solution, if not, having them find a way to process their own waste, on a shoreline
facility, at least pushing it further out into the Alenuihaha Channel where it'll get
dispersed more evenly with the harder currents out there. Maybe pushing it out closer
maybe to 5-7 miles. The only reason they are dumping it so close to shore is to save
money on gas prices. Which is terrible, it's really hurting the water quality in Kailua Bay.
It's making it unsafe for swimmers and paddlers. That's how I got it, just paddling wa'a
with Kai Ehituu and it was pretty scary, pretty aggressive form of Staph from that human
waste and pretty disrespectful too. You latterly can see the toilet paper and that kind of
stuff in the water. Well,those are just a few of the concerns I've noticed over the last few
months.
LT: Yes sir, thank you very much - right on. Mahalo for that first commission report. That
was an amazing one. Thank you very much.
? Aloha
LT: Where to step in. Ahhh...just going back... the Manta Tours, I think a year or two ago, we
max, we counted around eighty (80) one night.
AA: Whew!!!!
LT: Eighty (80) illegal boats, in one night. So, I'm happy that it got down to the thirty (30)
you're talking about. But still, that's Aole!
We to figure that out.
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RD: Chair....
AA: Actually, for the guys doing it correctly, like Capt. Bill Murtagh, Kalani Nakoa, Kona Style,
they're doing it really well. They educate the population;they tell them not to touch etc..
You got a lot of these new guys who just came in from Florida, whatever, I almost got ran
over, a few times with my friends,fishing for menpachi at night coming in with our Kayaks,
they are looking backwards, addressing their clients as they are almost running us over.
But some of the old school captains, Capt. Bill have got the Nainoa down, low-capacity
fishing boat, these guys, should really have preference, because they are doing it
correctly, spreading their education, kind of the Aloha for the sea.
RD: Chair Natalie Reynolds, was heading up a PIG, dealing with Kailua Bay, and the issues
there, including the Manta. Kinda held off on this PIG, until Able could become
commissioner, essentially get to Able, so we finally have a report, the reports' written,
but we'll get Ables' mana'o into it and present it to the commission, which I believe then,
is the first month the report gets presented, the second month it's commented on, the
third month it gets' approved.
AA: Excellent
LT: Amazing....thank you guys...
TWC: Taysen district 2 is there any way we can maybe make a regulation as to how many X-
number of boats will be present in the area during a manta session?
RD: Robert Duerr District 1, essentially what happen DOBOR got in the commercial business,
so what they do they have a monthly fee, which is $300.00 a month, plus a percentage
of the total revenues. So, they were motivated to just run just as many permits as they
could. They realized they had a problem, so Natalie and I attended a Manta hearing on
the westside county campus, which was loaded...so they know, one of the problems is,
they've issued permits, people have bought boats, and now they want to take away the
permits, which essentially taking away their livelihood away, but the issues need to be
addressed.
TWC: I still believe there are too many boats in one area. Not only for the wild marine life, but
for people as well...you know, it can be devasting situation, especially if get kids involved
in the water, something you know, being concerned.
BL: (Brian Ley) Some concern for DLNR, you guys may have the permits, make time slots,
where people may have 2-hour time slots. So, you'll have so many boats, but you can still
accommodate more people, and the guy can still have a good discount, as a suggestion.
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AA: (Abel Aquino) Absolutely, way too many boats and having your engine on and the props
spinning, people in the dark is really a recipe for disaster especially with one death
already. But, another possible solution, when the jet ski island, when the barge was being
utilized by the jet ski island in middle of Kailua Bay, we put some lights on there, ran it for
about 3-4 months, and we had a Manta population every night within that. So, we could
expand the industry a bit. We have the bay by, possibly put a mooring that has powered
light that lights up. Make a secondary, third dive spot at Kailua Bay. I know there's one
by the airport, that is also being used, not as bad, not as crowed out there, but it could be
another solution, then we'll have another spot in Kailua, issue those permits and make
them site specific.
LT: Noted that down...Ok mahalo very much, anymore comment? None seen, moving
forward...Moving forward to District 8 Mrs. Cortney Okumura...
CO: (Cortney Okamura) Mahalo chair, and welcome Commission Aquino, we're happy to have
you, thank you for being here and for your service. So, kind of link to that, former chair
Antonio sent me on July 1st, DLNR put out an announcement that DOCARE is now doing
Marine patrols, on all Islands, and one of the patrols that happed on Hawaii Island, was
at Keauhou during the night, to patrol these operation happening off of Keauhou Bay, it
says that they did numerous safety boarding, which they check the presents of required
safety equipment, ensured that the vessel were properly licensed and permitted. That
sounds like as far as that situation went. I'm happy to hear that this is going to be carried
forward and you have got some great ideas, thank you for doing that. So, anyway also
for awareness, if anyone that is interested, so you can just go to the DOCARE website,
that article is there for more information about where they've been patrolling and things
like that. And then, for ... I'm not sure if the public, if anyone has heard, there's going to
be some public hearing put on by the police department, where, I guest the public is going
to be invited to share our thoughts on the proposed changes to the rules of gun permits
and licenses, and the first hearing is going to be on Monday, August 11t", at West Hawaii
Civic Center, and the second one will be August 14t", at Aunty Sally Kaleohano Luau Hale
in Hilo. I can send this information over to Barbara, it was a public announcement that
went out. It does say that written comments will be part of the official records on this
and any comments sent in after the hearing may not be considered, but if you want to
read out there's link out on the proposed rule changes, I can send it to you guys as well.
So, if you are available, you can get your information from there. That's all I have. Thank
you.
TWC: Do you know the time at Aunty Sally's?
CO: Yes, 5:00 pm on Thursday, August 14tn
LT: Mahalo,
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CO: The other one is also 5:00 pm, the one at West Civic Hawaii Center
LT: Mahalo, just a comment on that...that's too soon for us to officially get something
together from the commission, but we can show up in a personal manner, and give our
opinion on that, because I'll be there too. All right, that's it for our District Reports by
our commissioners. Moving forward to our next agenda item. Oh...okay...1 2 3 4 and
agenda item
5. PRESENTATION:
a. Bret Nainoa Mossman, DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife (DOFAW) Natural
Area Reserve System, Hawai'i Island Avian Biologist to speak on the "Palila and its
Endangered Species Recovery Status and Analysis including analysis of the
"Technical Report HCSU-115 2022—2024 Status and Trends of the Palila (Loxioides
Bailleui)."
LT: Today we were supposed to have two (2) presentations, and we weren't able to get in
contact with Nainoa Mossman and who is the leader of our Birds program here with DLNR
and NARS. He is the head of NARS up at Kulani too, I'm just going to read out Bret Nainoa
Mossman DLNR Division of Forestry and Wildlife (DOFAW) Natural Area Reserve System,
Hawaii Island Avian biologist to speak on the Palila and it's endangered species recovery
status and analysis including analysis technical report HCSU 15 from 2022 to 2024 status
and trends of the Palila. And that is this report just came out on the Palila birds. For our
presenter, is he coming next month with Okano? The presenter had to cancel this month
because they had other meetings that were more important. We'll have them back next
month, but I feel we should use this time for us, if you read it, we can have a discussion
amongst ourselves, and kind of understand, before we get a presentation, what our ideas
are, maybe we want to write a letter to, to a specific office, individual or I dunno, that's
why...we have time here to brain storm...I'll start this off,just by reading...the abstract...all
right...Just a paragraph..read good. English is my third language so bear with me. Palila
our critically endangered Hawaiian honey creepers specializing on the seed pods Mamane
and restricted to Mauna Kea volcano on the Island of Hawaii. A previous analysis of
survey data estimated 89% population decline, between 1998 and 2001. Using the most
recent annual survey data from 2022, 2023, and 24, we report undated population
estimates and trends since 1998. The 2022 population estimate was between 367 and
742 birds. In 2023 the population estimate was between 374 to 842 birds. And the 2024
population estimate was 412 Palila with a max of 970 birds. Our estimate survey years
prior to 2022 were within the confidents intervals, of the estimates of the previous
analysis. Our models, likewise, showed a population fluctuating between 4,000 and 6,800
birds, from 98 to 2005. Except for an unusually low estimate in the year 2000, and then
a steep decline through 2010. For the next decade, Palila abundance fluctuated between
776 to 1,346 birds before declining again in 2021 to 679 birds. From 98 to 24 the
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population decline to 90% to 203 birds a year with very strong statistical evidence with
overall downward trend. Okay...
BL: Brian Ley district 4, 1 just want to put it on the records, the massive decline in 2021, 1 want
to remind everybody July 30, 2021 is when we had the mana fire, and you know...we need
inaudibly. Sheep and address the elephant is the fire is obviously the biggest threat we
had and the mana fire and we had another couple other fires on Mauna Kea that went to
the edge of the Palila critical habitat area...you know, now we get more scientific evident
the biggest threat to these birds is fire. I just want to get it on the record, the sheep is
not the villain, the money needs to be put towards more management of the birds,
instead of continuing the charade of going after the sheep, and of wasting millions of
dollars on fencing, which is just causing environmental havoc on HBP and Hawaiian
Homes lands, and these sheep are not able to get to the hunting areas where they can be
managed. My two cents on this and something once again I think we need to look into
and go after the true culprit and spend our money wisely on saving these animals and
birds.
RD: Chair Robert Duerr District 1, After repeated, the procedure to get an DLNR,
spokesperson, or through DLNR communications.They were reached out twice, and both
times, no answer...Dan Dennison who was the former head, who retired July 1, he did do
a five (5) minute a video interview of Bret Mossman on the mountain talking about the
Palila and the recovery. He sent that to me; I forward it to Barbara. I don't know if that
video is capable of being played. Other then that, zero feedback from DOFAW, Zero! Dan
Dennison went out of his way to say, hey, I'm on the mountain, and I filmed him.
LT: Leomana District 3... So that's how we got that updated video, you reached out...
RD: I reached out
LT: And that was specifically for us.
RD: Right.
LT: Okay, right...Well ka la mai...point of order...We have someone's audio coming through...
if we can just mute all the mics...thank you very much. We can hear all the cars going by...
TWC: Taysen District 2, 1 just wanted to point out key factors, when I pint point out this for the
reading of the minutes, I say this 1982 till present...95% of the Palila resides on the South
Western slope of Mauna Kea right, this also pin points decreased population by 21.8%
from 2021 to 2022,another decrease by 30%from 2022 to 2023 on page 7. Slight increase
by 8.2% between 2023 to 2024 that's the figures of 49 to 53 in a year, that's for birds.
That's not big ...inaudible...Who knows if they not counting the same bird, it also states
over here as well, on the first page of the article I just read, the 89% population decline
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of 1998 to 2021, and they also stated that the very strong statistical evidence overall
downwards trend, so they also stated as well that, the sheep got to stop being labeled as
a problem.You know, look at all the sheep that have been removed since the 70's till now.
I can honestly say from what I visually see on the mountain I don't hear no 700 plus birds,
that the state supposedly be estimated. I would love for them to take me on an excursion;
I want to hear those birds for myself. I can count them on one hand how much Palila sing,
chirping I can hear in one day up at the mountain that's fact. As far as also where it states
here, with the estimated this abstract on page 4, you know how they have the counts, it's
kind of confusing,this one...the number that they provide in the abstract verses what they
show in the count in the survey,
LT: Yep
TWC: Totally off their counts. So, once again that brings me back to my conclusion says, are
they counting the same birds ten plus time a day, you know that is a big question mark?
Makes me question this data analysis period. I just want this in the minutes.
LT: Leomana District 3. If we have any more comments on this, I got a couple of things, it
might take me about 10 minutes to go through,so ifguys want to provide more comments
for that or after.
RD: Ummm one, the video by Mossman is not able to be shown?
CO: Chair Barbara asked for help if she wasn't able to get it done from her end.
LT: Okay
CO: Happy to do it, if I'm able to share
BK: Go ahead and share
LT: That would be amazing. I watched this morning and it's real short. so umm
BK: It's 5 minutes, Courtney go ahead, I'm at a different computer
CO: Let me see if I can get going...
RD: Chair, In the meantime, what we're talking about here, is a legal case that was brought
here at the Federal Court,
LT: Ka la mai, Yes sir, Continue
15
RD: In 1967, Palila was listed as an endangered species. In 1973 Palila was listed as a Federal
endangered species, under the Endangered Species Act, in 1978 the US Fish and Wildlife
designated critical habitat on Mauna Kea. Critical Habitat is a geographic center for
endangered species. 1979 the landmark case Palila Bird vs Hawaii Department of Natural
Resources ...the Federal judge Samuel King orders the Hawaii Department of Land and
Natural Resources to stop maintaining in population of feral sheep and goat with in the
Palila habitat. 1986 United States court Hawaii, the mouflon sheep numbers sufficient
purposes are harmful to the Palila. 1987 US District courts Hawaii, State must eradicate
mouflon sheep and hybrids within one year. 1998 Defendants and Plaintiffs agree to
stipulation in order for DLNR will use best efforts to minimize the migration of ungulates
into critical habitat. 1999 Hunters organization intervene that DLNR to move and modify
the 1987 order, the request is denied. 2000 Hunter Organizations file an appeal of the
1999 decision; the Nineth Court dismisses the appeal. 2009 files a motion to enforce the
eradication of 1979, 1987 and 1998. This is basically, I had more, but I threw it out. These
two folders is about 7 inches of documents, this is from the 1998 legal case, that John
Carroll put together. The document on this would be two (2) feet tall or more. It's,
basically going-here is the 1979 review of the U S Court District for the District of Hawaii.
In it states why, essentially the State of Hawaii has full jurisdiction in Hawaii. However, in
this document, the Federal Government is arguing that because the Federal Government
has treaties with Great Britain and Japan and a World Treaty to protect the endangered
birds, those treaties are the law of the land and that preempted what Hawaii had. The
reason that it preempted what Hawaii had, because Hawaii was taking Federal Funds. So
once Hawaii became Federal Funds, they were under the jurisdiction of the Feds could
come in and mandate the eradication. Essentially looking at the technical report, Paul
Banko is the guy who on this report as well as 1998, he's probably the leading fellow. The
agency that oversees Palila COP, is the USGS, they are the guys that oversees it.
Essentially what you have here, what Teyson brought up, essentially the number of these
issues we are dealing with, is how the survey was commented. Trend detection, first the
Bootstrap sample estimates, (A Bootstrap model is a dialog box or pop-up window that
appears overlaid on the main content of a webpage. It is a UI component built using HTML,
CSS, and JavaScript, designed to display information, forms, or other content in a
temporary, focused manner.) then the Bayesian State Model (A Bayesian state-space
model is a flexible statistical framework that combines Bayesian inference with state-
space models to analyze systems with unobserved internal states that evolve over time,
allowing for uncertainty quantification through probability distributions for both latent
states and parameters.)Then the Markov Chain Monte Carlo algorithms- (Markov Chain
Monte Carlo (MCMC) is a class of algorithms used to sample from complex probability
distributions, particularly in Bayesian inference, by constructing a Markov chain whose
long-term behavior(stationary distribution) matches the target distribution)
LT: That's for auto correlation...
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RD: Yes,The Violin Pilot(A violin plot visualizes the distribution and probability density of data,
combining features of a box plot and a kernel density estimate to show not just summary
statistics but also the shape, skewness, and potential multiple modes (peaks) within a
dataset) You're essentially dealing with mathematical models, that is going to need
mathematician to understand. Now, obviously the state has it's feet in these models, but
to understand like you are saying, where...I don't hear how these models are working.
Essentially for us to impact we're going to have to have professional PHD's to be on our
side to help us digest this. One of the key piece of information here, was on the
count, they were saying, on the count, the males were outnumbering the females. So,
the genetic population bases were in material, because the males were not breeding. So
that's other...how many female's vs males. At the end of the day, it's a dismal report by
any means. But for us to move forward to have any kind of impact, essentially we are
going to have to...hunters have been in the court, inaudible...work to see, quite frankly, I
think if we combine with people that we now have an alliance with, the Sierra Club, Na
Ala Hele and we do a consultation with. Guys, the mountain birds what's going to
happen? Can we work on this, what is a viable alternative? Here's the other question, if
you brought in sheep are they going to able to take that fire load down? Do you have to
manually take afire load and have grazing animals come in? This is We've had guys...This
is a big issue. It's ... For us to go head on into court, is going to be, it's going to be
counter...we don't have guns, we don't gun, we don't have the manpower, we don't have
the guns. If we can work it out with other stakeholders, I think that's our best shot.
LT: Yes Sir, do you have a comment?
DY: My name is Dwayne Yoshina, I used to be on this commission.
LT: Yeah, Uncle Mahalo
DY: We weren't to affect, because we're still here. We're still talking about those same issues,
and you know, I really don't want to point fingers, perhaps cultivate an understanding
while we talked about this during our initial phases of our discussion, it was quite clear
whatever the state was doing, doesn't work. That's effort (?) So some of us were foolish
enough to ask the question, "So what are you guys going to do?and there was no answer.
The state has since many years ago catered to those interests that has the loudness
voices. And right now, those conservationists has a loud voice. And so, you have to go
talk to them and try to work together, as Bob noted, and you know the conservation
community, have to agree with what the hunters are saying. It's not the hunters, it's not
the sheep, it's not the goats, if it's in your equations, those are not the reasons, what are
you guys, the state and the feds, doing? You're just perpetuating a program that has
proved to be ineffective. You have got to the point where, okay what is effective? You
know, you have to start talking story with these guys. This person_??_she don't want
to come to the meeting, because she is afraid of you guys, us guys and unfortunately if
you go to the meeting and start talking like this, will they listen? I don't know. You know,
17
we have similar goals, we can't seem to sit down and talk stories across the table. I'm a
conservationist, before conservationist was a big thing. I was a Boy Scout, one of the first
things they teach you in Boy Scout is only take what you need. You don't over fish, you
don't over hunt, you don't. You know. But to get the conservationist like the Sierra Club
to even acknowledge the fact that maybe the sheep and goats are not the problem, as
Bob says, when you have the male, female ratio of birds that can not naturally sustain
itself, why are you protecting this whole area and it's not doing the job. I don't know, I
sat on the board for many, for number of years, I just, life is too short.
LT: Thank you...yeah it is
TWC: I thank you for your time in the commission as well, It is unfortunately we are still talking
about the same problems, but I believe in time does tell yeah,what we are...and to answer
your question also, the Sierra Club is back in the GMAC now, just for your information,
they also showed up for us in the county council meeting the General Plan. He also did
mention in the minutes as well, he is in support of GMAC and believes the sheep is not
the problem. And the whole Sierra Club, mission all for actual management plan involving
GMAC to be part of that plan. Is it going to be a process? Yeah, now, I'm only 38 years
old. I've been going to meetings with my dad, growing up, I'm basically following his
footsteps, because I believe in my lifetime, I can try and change. Mauna Kea is a big thing
to me,that's where I grew up on it. I started shooting archery, I was hunting with archery,
before I shot one gun. I'm doing that with my kids today. To see...to see it slowly heading
in a direction, from what, I've been ...I only been here next month, makes my one year
next month, and what I have been last year till now, we're slowly seeing the steps, and
the people we need to come across to make this happen and we keep it on the agenda to
keep it rolling, because of the fact that,we actually, it doesn't seem like it at the moment,
but we actually do have a lot of support to make this moment. We are just going into fact
of the process, which is kind of long unfortunate for legislation and stuff like that, but
right now we do have a lot of people in support of hopefully in amending this, this whole
eradication process. Just wanting to share with you that.
DY: Thank you.
LT: Yes Sir,
??: (Steve Araujo) I don't know where you guys were back in 1980, that's when everything
started 1970— 1978 It started with the con-con, we arrange sections,
LT: Hold on I going give 3 minutes, we going watch the video, so that way we get time to
respond.
??: (Steve Araujo) Judge Heen, original order stated the birds, and the sheep can live
together, okay, only thing, the sheep had to be brought down in numbers and managed.
The state said, "all or nothing, So, all or nothing, because the Judge in turn because of
18
noncompliance said irradicate. The lawsuit when was a big BS. The hunters joined the
state, because they thought the state wanted the sheep, but it was the opposite way
around. John Caroll went back to the Supreme Court. I was part of it. He did not get
support of the state. The state told him, "You want to go to court, go to court. Without
the partners being together, the lawsuit is not going to happen. So, I think John Carroll is
one of the last hunters from that organization to trial the state, I don't know how that's
going to be. Okay, I went through this state, they talk about the bird population
increasing, they have not said why. I read Environmental Hawaii; you guys know that
magazine? Pat Cummings was on the news, Palila numbers down this and that, what is
the problem? Their Concern is what is the problem?Sheep almost gone, essentially the
sheep is not the problem,the problem is the rats and the cats, which back in the 90's they
did this video, "Hawaii Born of Fire", they made this video they showed a rat eating the
eggs and stuff, so they collared the rats and let them go, they collared the cats and let
them go. If you catch a predator, kill, common sense. But honestly guys, it's all about the
money. The Endangered Species Act, Federally Endangered species act states, Wildlife
will be holding to the state, belongs to state, not the fish and wildlife service. You guys
should carry this little book around,the Palila numbers has also gone down, because back
in the 90's they forgot something like 5 or 7 mist nets, those mist nets were left there for
days, all the Palila that went into the nets, all dead. They did the same thing in Kulani, I
think at Kulani they had like 14 nets. So, the condition is work, you guys want to pursue
this is work, go get the evidence. And if guys read some of the Palila reports, I do a lot of
politics too, this involves politics. Back in Cayetano time...I read one, the Palila nest is
empty because the Palila is an Aditi, (The assertion that the palila bird is an "aditi" is
incorrect. A palila is a critically endangered Hawaiian honeycreeper, while Aditi is a
prominent goddess in Hindu mythology. The two are unrelated concepts from different
fields of knowledge.) it's here in black and white. Umm...Paul Cayatano went after Mike
Wilson, big time, what kind of stupid report is that. The reports are stupid.
LT: Mahalo Uncle thank you for that, I did take notes on that. We're going to jump forward
to Mrs. Cortney Okumura and just watch this 5-minute video and I can give my mana'o
about this, and we'll move on to the next agenda item. On the Screen we have Bret
Mossman.
(Video -with Q&A):
What are your thoughts on the precipice decline of the Palila populations on Mauna
Kea in particular thus far?
19
BM: Yeah, it kind of following the pattern we've seen with a lot of native birds, unfortunately
as things have changed in the landscape they're going to decline. On Mauna Kea
specifically on Hawaii island, there has been 250 years, basically unmanaged grazing. The
habitat has been really damaged. It's going to take a long time to recover from those
lows. You know, in the 90's we had this really bad drought, that really caused the Palila
population to fall down below 2,000 individuals, at that point they became really
susceptible to other treats, such as predators such as feral cats, and that cause them to
continue to decline over time. Every year we are getting new threats, naio thrips, t8tg12
thri s C r cm r~p„ My cm 2d) are a destructive invasive insect pest from Tasmania that
attacks the native Hawaiian naio tree (Myoporum sandwicense), causing leaf distortion,
galling, dieback, and potentially tree death)to Russian thistle(Russian thistle is a summer
annual weed also known as tumbleweed. It is primarily a weed in sites where the soil has
been disturbed. When Russian thistle). Which is now invading the Saddle region,
increasing fire risk. Just new threats are coming in on top of the treats we have been
already experiencing over the last few 100 years, and it's kind of expecting to see them
continue to decline. We're learning more so we are able to take more action, but you
know it's a devasting impact, but we have the tools and the assets to be able to do
something about it. It's ruff and it's hard to see, but if we keep protecting the habitat and
if we keep address predators, you know, if we keep trying new things, eventually we are
going to figure out, what's going to be the key, the key recipe for making sure we keep
them around and hopefully we build them to recovery.
What are your latest counts that you have seen?
BM: Oh yeah,fortunately wejust had a report by USGS of our partners, and forthe last 3 years,
we actually seen a slight up-tick, and the number of Palila is very, very small. They were
declining from 2019 to 2022;there is a pretty steady decline in the number of Palila. From
2022 to 2024, we have seen a slight increase, so by 2024 we have 666 individuals the
estimated population, and we got a few more raw detections in 2025 than we did in 2024.
So hopefully we've seen an even increase from that. It seems, like some of our really high
intensity management that the Mauna Kea Forest restoration project has been engaging
in practically the expansion of predator control, and the wildlife program in East Hawaii,
we've seen a hopeful response to that, really stepped-up management. Ah yeah, only
time will tell, and we're trying to implement a bunch of new strategies, so, we're hoping
the next for years to do, we're what we are calling it Rear n Release, we're going try to
collect eggs from the wild, bring those into captivity, raise them up to fledging age, for
just a few months and release them back out with the wild flocks, so they can learn their
wild behavior before they get stuck in captivity
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for too long. So, we're trying a bunch of different strategies, and so far, at least it seems
like, we're trying to make some progress.
What's the ideal number if there is an ideal number for the sustainable population for
Palila?
BM: That's kind of a hard question, but I would say back in the 90's there were around 3 to
6,000 birds, so we need to get back to that number, that would be great, I would love to
see at least two populations of Palila. One in their current range and one on the North
slope and on the East slope, where they were found more recently. Yeah, ideally, we
want to see...to me if we can get stable numbers, that's the biggest thing. From there we
can start growing that population that's even better. But I would love to see at least a
thousand (1,000) preferably two to three thousand (2,000 to 3,000) Palila. Even then
more the merry, there probably used to be tens of thousands of Palila. To me there is no
real number where we have enough, but ultimately, we can get above these few
hundreds to a few thousand again that will be in a much better place.
Feral cats, what's happening to keep them in control in the Palila habitat?
BM: You'll be surprised where feral cats turn out. Pretty much from the coast to the summit,
there's just about feral cats everywhere. And that, from previous studies done, that
seems to be the main non-native predator that attacks Palila. So, they typically prey on
the nestling. But we don't know how often cats are predating on adults. They might be
more often than we realize because when the adults' birds are sleeping, they are
completely susceptible to a predator coming in to get them. So, cats are being addressed.
So, as I mentioned before,you know highlighting the expansion of predator control,there
is a much larger effort across the mountain to control feral cats, rats and mongoose. So,
the teams with the Mauna Kea Forest restoration project are in particular are really
working hard to catch as many cats, as they can and they are removing dozens of cats per
year, from Palila critical from the Palila core habitat, not just Palila critical habitat.
LT: That was our video from Mr. Mossman. Just to give us a little update. Same thing as
inside of the report. Just going forward I'm going to give my mana'o, so we can move
forward. So, starting, at the abstract, when ever I read scientific paper, I got my degree
in physics, and I was trying to get my PHD in astro physics over here, and I dropped out,
one was because of the stats that they used, so whenever I read reports like this, I don't
take the range of numbers, I take the lowest count because it's a population count and
you can not go lower. So, I don't take 742, 1 take 368 and that is just the way I do the
stats. The stats and mathematics I follow is error analysis by John Taylor. This is a physic
textbook, ummm..600 level physics over here. Umm...So, when ever I look through what
they put out, I have the same thing as Bob, when I got to the methods of collection and
algorithms they used, I noted down on page 6 there is 7 different methods and algorithms
and mathematics statistical errors they used to get the numbers they want and the data
21
that collect in the trend detection is diagnostic, what is this, visual inspection of residue
plots. This is how they collect their data, so, when they go up there, they go up there and
they look for some residue, on top of the plots they put out. That's what they put in their
mathematical equations to get these numbers, so, the statistics over here, I cross
reference it with I know, and I get confused. I didn't have too many days to look at this, I
probably spent four (4) days, trying just to go back and forth, what math equations they
used. How they, ummm...right here we give it a plus and minus on the error bars. How
are you guys getting this error? The over under is too big. I don't accept 700, if you tell
me between 400 and 500, I'll accept that, if you say 300 and 900, that error gap is too big.
I don't accept your mathematics, and I don't accept your stats.To go back to the, on page
4, on population count, you brought up the fire, 2001, it was the biggest fire we ever
experienced. If we look at the count from 2020 and 2021 and 2022, there is no decrease
in the population counts after that big fire.
So, you're telling me that the biggest fire we ever had covered Mauna Kea all the way to
Mauna Loa in the critical habitat area had no effect on the population counts, that's what
they are telling us. The biggest fire we ever experienced. When we went back the
difference was two (2) 2021 to 2022/ 2022 to 2021 the difference was one (1) count.
From 2021 to 2022 the difference was five (5) So you are telling me that because of the
fire we only lost five (5) birds! No way, I don't accept that either. So, these numbers that
they are putting out, you know they say that they, on page 6 using the...due to sarcastic
fluctuation (The phrase "due to sarcastic fluctuation"is not a standard idiom orscientific
term. It is likely a nonsensical or humorous expression created by combining a specific
Psychological concept with technical sounding, but irrelevant.) population in overall
trends, they used the intern annual noise, and it was audio correlated with alternative
trend assessments, using Biege space models. These are five (5) different algorithms and
mathematical equations. Do one, take that, put them into a different one, take that, put
it into a different one and it just keeps jumping. If this was a math class, I wouldn't accept
that. If this was an astronomy paper, I wouldn't accept that. This is just my mana'o
looking at this from a science background. The reason I dropped out of UH Physics was
because I had a conversation with one of my professors, and he's the head professor of
astronomy here and he used to be the director of telescopes. And I had a conversation
with him, in my last year about error analysis and data collection, where he told me 50%
of all data we find in our books is just straight up a lie. This is from my professor and that's
why I gave up my scientific, my PHD because I don't want to spend my life going through
the lies,just so I can prove my own truth. So, I left, and I came across this, and this is the
kind of lie that he was telling me about, where we use mathematics to forge numbers,
because real life doesn't reflect these counts. So, that's just my understanding using my
degree and error analysis by John Taylor. Just cross-referencing all the algorithms and
trend detections they talk about. Other than that, this is just my mana'o and what I read,
just going through this. I got the book right here, if you guys want to read it. Don't read
it...Life is too short...like uncle said. That's my mana'o and we can go forward from there.
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TWC: Taysen Wong-Chong District 2 Another thing I'd like to add to where we are at. We also
got to remember the problem with the cats, that we are facing a problem too, the state
the DLNR they introduce the problem, what year they introduce the mongoose, does
anybody know what yearthey introduce the mongoose?(The small Indian mongoose was
introduced to the Hawaiian Islands in 1883 to control rats on sugarcane plantations, but
it failed to significantly impact the rat population because mongooses are diurnal (active
during the day) and rats are nocturnal.) From the thirty's (30's) to the seventy's (70's)
mongoose was overpopulated as well, because why the fact it wasn't a proven problem
solver as to the rodent problem, rats and everything right? That was plantation time, so
now,they fail to mention,they mention mongoose, but it's always the last thing that they
mentioned. Yeah, they talk about cats all the time, but me personally in the mountain I
also seen mongoose climbs these trees. In all honestly, they need to take accountability
where I see it and never do. That the state has failed also big time and this could be a
concern as well to the Palila decline. They brought the mongoose here, the state, that's
a big-time predator. That could be possibly the number one reason why we are
losing these birds. Who knows, that's why I mentioned I do see mongoose climb these
trees as well, mongoose kill just to kill, they don't even eat the dam thing. For example,
they will kill a chicken and not even eat it. So, I want to make that for the record as well.
That the need to take accountability for their mess up with the mongoose and bring it
here, and potentially being a big Palila problem as well.
LT: Maika'I Mahalo, So, we have Mr. Aquino
AA: I just wanted to point out the fact to that the native bird population especially like the
Palila, the I iwi, Alawi their importance can't be overstated. Right, they're not just
independent endangered species, their role are all help in this critical habitat, the forest
is huge. They are pollinators and seed distributors, mamane and other native trees
species and their decline continues, and we can't get a hold of it, it can really devastate
the way our biodiversity of how our forest develops. So, this is a heavy thing, pest like
mongoose especially by the state, the feral cats just got to be hammered, you know.
Possibly putting a bounty on them. Something like that could help. Get some locals out
there, trapping and hunting the mongoose and feral cats, and putting up a small reward,
a bounty would be a pretty interesting program. I just wanted to suggest that.
TWC: inaudible...Put a bounty on the mongoose like that to help mitigate the problem....
RD: Chair Robert Duerr District 1 - I want to thank you for that mathematical analysis. That
was awesome. Do you have a handle on like, what should happen next as far as dealing
with the studies and the algorithm or you know,just the complexity of their report?
LT: I think the short answer is, we might have to go and get some people from UH and just
pay. We got money, can you run a study for us a math professor and give us your
professional analysis on this, and $500. Bucks, whatever, we got to pay for the study, we
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need a third-party opinion of a professional. So, I just,... It's a lot to go over math, it takes
a long time, and I'm not the best at it and it is just a part of something, I had know.
??: (Steve Araijo) My suggestion, post your report to the council, have the county council they
address the issue of what is county, Mauna Kea included. This is a concern of the people,
not only the commission, the people. Could they offer some kind of help to resolve this
situation? Even if it is the County of Hawaii, request that the Department of Land and
Natural Resources re-look at Mauna Kea sheep eradication court case and take it back to
court, that is a very strong way to come at this. When you come to this kind of stuff, I
suggest you guys come full force ??? use all of your backing, and you'll have your support
from the council.
LT: Mahalo Yes Sir,
BL: Brian, just something else you need to consider, when we're talking about the rats, you
know, once you remove the sheep, we've got these invasive grasses move in, then the
Pu'eo, and the I'o can't effectively hunt the rats, because of the grass are too tall for the
them to predated on the thing. So, we have disrupted the balance and like you said,
anybody who has drive up or drove down, old saddle road, where do you see the Pu'eo?
There on short grass where the cattle graze and PTA. I've had Pu'eo follow me bird
hunting looking for rats and stuff, cool to having your own personal fowl following you,
and that's something to consider, rarely do I see Pu'eo on Mauna Kea anymore or I'o the
grass are too tall, they can't effectively predate on the rats and we have created a
problem, the State has created this problem where we got the tall grass. Not only is it a
fire hazard, now it's a breeding sanctuary for the rats, nobody can predate on. Another
two cents worth. Thank you.
b. Ryan Okano, Division of Aquatic Resources (DAR) Department of Land and Natural
Resources to speak on the proposed Division of Aquatic Resources Community Project
entitled, "Resurrecting the Wailoa Station to Support 'Ama'ama Production to Help
Revitalize Fishponds." And, to share an update on various DAR Hawai'i Island
community efforts.
LT: Mai'ka'I Thank you for that. That was our Palila report, sorry we couldn't get Mr.
Mossman here this month, but it gives us an idea that we can go back next month and
how we can move forward, so just let that cook and brainstorm. Moving forward,Agenda
Item: 5B Mr. Ryan Okano from DAR, but he's not here this month, but I'm going to give it
overto commissioner Duerrto kind of give us a short breakdown of what the presentation
will be about next month.
RD: Basically, it'll defer to next month. Essentially, it's going to deal with, starting up the
agricultural center on Kamehameha Avenue, as a feeder for fishponds in Keaukaha as a
which also would be feeding native stock into the open ocean. He'll also be talking on
Kaupulehu, ongoing issues over there for closures. Always about moluwai? the notion
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that the estuaries, mountain Mauka to Maka' I is feeding the ocean. Then also Holumua,
Holumua is a big Holumua initiative is coming to Hawaii Island, which is a big deal. Not
only on Maui Island, but Holumua is a big deal of essential self-governance, the biggest
issue who gets to be on the board to make those decisions on self-governance. Those are
some the issues he'll be bringing up.
LT: All right, yes Sir, thank you for that and setting that up for us. I look forward to that.
Moving forward to:
6. OLD BUSINESS:
a. GMAC "Mana Aina Awards": Continue discussion and/or finalizing the nomination form, and
other related materials, to honor outstanding individuals or groups who have demonstrated
exceptional dedication to support the hunter-gatherer community and protecting our natural
resources. This award recognizes efforts that embody the spirit of stewardship and respect for
the land and community.Chair Turalde.
So, a couple of months ago we were trying to schedule professional hunters gathers from
the public to give us presentations and because I get into you know technicalities in the
way, so, we came up with the Mauna Aina Award. The Mauna Aina Award is community
recognition. So, the hunter gathers and natural resource community we can recognize
experts in our field and the requirement you get, it was with twenty-five (25) signatures
from the community and if you get these twenty-five (25) then we'll recognize you as an
expert. The reason for these twenty-five (25) is because to apply for the mayor you need
twenty-five signatures, then you can submit an application. We were told that,
sometimes it is hard to get twenty-five (25) signatures from our hunting community. We
do not have too much people. So, maybe we should lessen the number of signatures
down to 15. Because county council to apply for county council you only need 15
signatures. So, lessen the requirement to 15 signatures to support you are the community
expert, we recognize as the source of information so that way we can bring you into our
commission meeting and give you fifteen (15) or twenty (20) minutes presentation
instead of just having you give 3 minutes testimony. Right, so you can actually be the
source of knowledge, instead of providing testimony. That was the idea of the Mauna
Aina Awards. And so, we put it back on the agenda today because, we have already
written out in English and we wanted to add, you know when you go to the Mayors office
and they give you the blue paper and you shake the mayors hand, I got an award from
the county. So, we wanted to add a palapala, a certification that we submit to the mayors
office and our community members, uncle yourself and yourself, where we bring you in
and Mahalo you for all the hard work that you do, this palapala Mauna Aina is a
community certification that we give to the people that deserve it so,that when you come
to this building's, technically we can sign you up for presentation. Because they have all
these rules. But it is also a good way for us to Mahalo the people who put in time and
give them some high acknowledgement, and ceremony, because I believe in that. 1
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believe in if you work hard, that I gotta reward that hard work. So today I just bring the
Hawaiian language to the English language. Because we have the English one put in, this
is the old Hawaiian language. I went to UH and talk to the professor, eh help me figure
this out, I only speak Hawaiian, I'm not an educator in Hawaiian, I want the official
language from the people, so today we just submit the Hawaiian language part for the
certificate from the mayor's office and I was hoping Micah would be here he is the guy
that was going to print this out and I can give this to you.
RD: Do we need a motion to accept that?
LT: We need a motion to accept the Hawaiian language, Well no, no, no. The last meeting
we had was amendments, and the two meetings after that, we got cancelled right, that's
why I bring it back to this meeting, because the last three (3) meeting it got cancelled, so
we are supposed to bring back the amendments, we did a vote. I just wasn't able to bring
back the Hawaiian part.
RD: Oh, okay
LT: So that's what this is about, and this section of the agenda, was suppose to be all part of
my commissioners report like I was talking about it earlier, because they want us to
agendize our commissioners report so that way the public could know what each district
was talking about. But, with the change with Corp Counsel and the change of the rules
and stuff, we don't need to do it that way. We can do it the way we had. Mahalo for the
change and for everybody getting through the last 6-7 months. So now we got through
the change, and we are getting back to regular deals. So, that's the Mauna Aina Awards.
Just to let you guys know, because this is very important for us to bring in our third-party
members who are experts in our community and not officially recognized. You know they
are having us, if you not part of the planning department you cannot come to our
commission meeting and talk about the General Plan right. They were saying that you
have to be in the planning department, and this is kind of our push back against that. So,
thank you guys for that. If you guys want to look at it, we'll upload the packets today on
top of our website in the GMAC folder so everybody can see this. Okay, moving forward
from that, if no one doesn't have any discussion. That was just a basic breakdown if you
guys like, we'll get one to you.
b. The Commission intends to discuss and may take action on creating informational marketing
materials of the Commission.Chair Turalde.
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Moving forward Agenda Item 6b the commission intend to discuss Taking action creating
informational marketing materials of the commission.
So, last year we went to the legislation, so, we flew to Oahu, a couple of us, we went to
the legislation, and a part of what we wanted to do was to provide more educational
opportunities, a lot of our communities they don't know what the GMAC is. They don't
know about the Palila and the things that we cover and so we wanted to make
informational pamphlets or cards or maybe get a little trinket like a pig or a sheep with a
tag and you giving them away to the kids to inspire them, to look the pig, look the birds
and maybe that will inspire them a little bit more. And just like informational packets to
handout when we go to meetings. Here's a paper full color, here's a picture of the animal,
here is our issues, here's what we want. You know, just as a handout as education and
advertising material for GMAC. I really didn't know how to start that discussion or where
we go from there about advertising and marketing and education. So that was kind of
what I was thinking throwing it in there to let you guys know we can educate and be more
present in the public, yeah that was my mana'o. If you guys have any thoughts on that?
I'm going let them go first....
BL: Could we go like to Maku'u Farmers Market and set up a little booth and discuss GMAC
topics and stuff or does that take up a whole quorum or if we wanted to do something
like that?
KW: (Attorney Wong) If you wanted more than two (2) people or less than quorum, then you
would establish a community inter-action group to be present there to provide a
presentation or you know to give information out, if you wanted to go with two (2)
people, you could just do that. It just how many people want to participate and what
level of information you want to share.
TWC: Question: Could it be possible if there was two (2) sections, let say Maku'u and Kona,
situation where we set up same day, but two different time both communities be aware
is that possible?
KW: Yea, I've done that with the youth commission before where they had two separate two
town hall meetings where youth was on the Hilo side and youth was on the Kona side and
it was just give information to the youth of the county, to say this is what we're about,
these are our goals and if anybody is interested and want to attend the meetings and if
you're interested in becoming a commissioner this is the process you go through. For the
informational material if anybody here is good at Canva creating artwork I mean design
and that sort of thing, my suggestion is maybe for the next meeting, bring a couple of
proposed designs, then the commission can then choose the design that they like.
TWC: Also, a suggest too, I actually reached out to a few people inaudible??? Sponsorship or
something like that, I can get in contact with somebody impressionist stuff like that and
27
mitigate onto our program like Gyotaku artwork. I can ask him myself if he'd be willing
to submit ????to do stuff like that?That would be a possibility to do something like that?
KW: Yes, you need to get their permission right?
TWC: I just want to clarify if it was possible, because I get some connection to that situation.
KW: Yes, it's possible
TL: That's it marketing and advertising material education...
RD: Should we leave this on the agenda?
TL: Yeah, next month come back to it. Commissioner yes, Mr. Abel Aquino
AA: (Abel Aquino)Yeah, I've been a professional designer for over twenty-two (22)years, and
of native ancestry. I might be able to help with, I may be cool to do something like an
enamel pin that goes with pamphlet or even like a patch like a Girl Scout or Boy Scout
participation. That talks about the Palila, then when they have the three (3) page foldout
brochure, you get a patch or
pin with it and once you're educated with that particular animal and we could do that
with fish and Pua 'a, birds, and different things like that.
LT: I'll add it to next month's agenda in the meantime if everybody can just brainstorm.
Maybe we're all experts and we focus on different areas in game management just bring
one solid idea. Have your idea written out and presented to the commission next month
and we can go forward from there. And we can talk about how to pay it forward and who
does it and all of that stuff. Yes, sir,
SA: Same issues with the Pig Hunters Association, what we found out is don't go to the
extreme kind of get a balance we people we own all the birds, we own the insects, we
own the forest we own the pigs, we own everything because everything is for the people.
So, no go like inaudible....give them good balance because the hardest thing is the kids, a
lot of the kids are already brainwashed so, you don't want them take the thing and
comeback in your face. You want, just to make them think. You know just keep that in
mind. And you talk about educating people, get up there and educating the county
council, get up there and educating our state reps, county reps, our senators. Both sides
need education, because they have power.
TWC: The reason why we are trying to educate the public is because we can get more public
involvement in meetings, more testimony...
SA: See and what you do and its' within the parameters of the law, I hate to see anybody
being thrown out.
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c. GMAC 2025 First Quarter Report on its activities,Chair Turalde.
LT: Okay, thank you for that Mana'o on the educational and marketing materials Moving
forward to Agenda Item 6c GMAC 2025 1st Quarter report on its activities Ahh,this special
meeting that we held for the General Plan, I got to sit down and talk with councilman
Inaba on our quarter report, and he was really excited. Cause he hasn't seen that in
GMAC until we started to do that again, so he was, so one of the points he brought up
was thank you so much for the quarter report you know if we can do it like this, I'm kind
of talking with him right now, how to set it up and he gets it, the information he wants
right at the top. Writing it up, so I'm trying to get that outlined and square away with him
and I'll probably see them in the next two(2)days,and come back in next months meeting
being with that cleared up.
d. Report on the site visit with NABS, DOFAW,GMAC,and hunters of the proposed fencing of
Puumakaala Forest from 800 acres to 400 acres,Chair Turalde.
LT: Moving forward from Agenda Item #6c to Agenda Item #6d Report on the Site visits with
NARS and DOFAW, GMAC and Hunters of the proposed fencing of Pu'u Maka'ala forest
from 800 to 400 acres. This was a huaka'I excursion that we took myself, Mr. Taysen
Wong-Chong, and representing the public we had one of our professional pig hunters and
community hunters Mr. Abraham Antonio and we went up there and spoke to the head
of NARS and Nick Augustas, you guys know NARS Nick Augustas he is the head of NARS
up there at Pu'u Maka'ala. They proposed fencing another 800 acres to add to the NARS
area they got from the prison. A lot of the land designation, doesn't allow hunters to
access the area because the old property belongs to the prison and it's under some weird
jurisdiction where we cannot travel with weapons across the prison road to get to our
hunting area. That is one of our concerns, of how can we get hunters up here when the
hunters cannot travel with any weapons? Because the roads go through the prison
grounds. From our conversation we didn't get in official writing yet, but the ask was that
they wanted 800 acres to fence. We went up there we had our conversation we got them
to communicate to us what about 400, what about cutting the fencing area down by half
these are the kind of deals that GMAC in my personal opinion needs to be there to talk to
the heads of these other organizations. We can kind of discuss and kind of train and
teach each other, in real time and go from fencing 800 and to 400 acres. You know here
in our meetings and our letters, that we do, sure we can write letters and hope that
people, kind of take our opinion, but to me that was a direct action talking to Nick up
there in the forest and say eh we no like your 800 acres idea, give us a different idea, and
they go what about 400, let's work with 400 we can do that. So, to me if.. all of my time
spent in GMAC, that's the kind of things that we can personally accomplish, because the
Palila stuff is going take a life time, right Palila is going take a life time and small things
like small wins like this, means a lot to the individuals who come in here that care about
fencing off specific areas. So, I just wanted to bring that to mind, I wasn't aware of this
area, when I came into the commission, but this was an important thing to our community
our hunters and past commission members that — I still push whatever they had on the
29
agenda from the years before. So, I just wanted to bring this up and say, "Eh, we still
working on it. We brought down from 800 to 400 words of mouth we are still waiting on
the letter, and we're going to go back and follow up. I just want to give an update on that
situation. Yes, sir...
?: (Steve Araijo) Could you get it down to zero? Listen up HRS 195 is NARS ... inaudible...This
area is not a natural area reserve; NARS has no jurisdiction outside of their boundary. Do
not give them jurisdiction because it's the first step to take the rest of the land hold it to
zero because I believe that area is outside of the prison boundary which makes it forest
reserve. Okay, you have a forestry. Forestry cannot give anything to NARS, NARS cannot
give anything to Forestry. To become a NARS, there is a procedure. It has to be
...inaudible...it has to go through NARS membership. It has to pass through
NARS commission, if pass the NARS commission, the Governor has to sign it
or else the NARS commission is not enforced. NARS commission can not say,
we want this", okay no matter what reason they give you, especially if it is a beautiful koa
forest. Because the partnership that is NARS national park, Kamehameha Schools,
Kamehameha Schools has about 2,000 acres of koa right there above that was the old
Keauhou Ranch ???? they took the Kulani prison area Kulani prison area consist of 10,000
acres there are giant koa stands in there, I've been there. And in the old days, for you're
guys reference, you could hunt in Kulani prison, no firearm, knife, bow or spear. Okay,
hunting was allowed in it. So, that area should not have any other jurisdiction, but
forestry and the guys' name is Nick Augustus. If you guys going give them 400 acres, you
are giving them people's land, and they going take the 400, then in two years it is going
to increase to 800, later on it going keep increasing. Hunters are going to lose more land
and then what, going be like Palila? Okay, going take 100 years to get something back?
Don't give them the land, fight them,
LT: Yes, Sir,
?: (Steve Araujo) Fight them tooth and nails.
LT: I like that idea of Zero!
?: (Steve Araujo)They took Kulani prison...
LT: It'll really take support for all of us to go down to Zero! Even me, I'm still learning about
NARS and how they apply their land. So, thank you for that.
?: (Steve Araujo) If you allow that, if you guys going go this commission to take back 400
acres, go give your information marketing, the hunters will be pissed off.
LT: Mahalo...Moving on to Agenda Item #7—7A We have statement from the public....
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AA: (Abraham Antonio) I just wanted to touch up little bit on that, you know we were there
and opposed the 800 acres, and asked them what their plan and what was the negotiation
that they would like to come up with? Of course,you know they mentioned the 400 acres
and at the time I still opposed that 400 acres, I totally agree with what Steven is saying.
We see what they come back with, it's still an open negotiation between the hunting
community and I guest with GMAC representatives that were there and with the DOFAW
NARS representatives. Nothing is in stone yet, still in negotiations and their reasoning,
you guys already know, it's for the birds, the birds is moving down slowly, that's why they
like go down and if we give them anymore acreage,then how much more they going take,
then Kulani and Mauna Loa slopes going end up like Mauna kea too as well, then will get
fenced off, then eradicated. Then we really not going to have anything to provide for our
families. That's all I can say for that, for now.
LT: Yes, Sir, thank you very much and thank you for always fighting for our Game
management.
7. NEW BUSINESS:
a. The commission intends to discuss topics for future GMAC agenda presentation. Chair
Turalde.
LT: We got our next meeting basically covered with our presentations and we can start lining
them up again, for September, October, ....
RD: Chair, Duerr District 1...It's kind a like what we had today, for issues one (1) Claudia Rohr
was asking to be on the agenda for the Pepeekeo public access. Jordan Lerma (sp?) was
talking about a report for the cats and also, he has a pig dot Pua'a mapping system,
potential also just an update for the General Plans. This may be under other business,
just small reports, at least the public knows. There was also a question about DOFAW,
what's the regulations on DOFAW ...inaudible? Mr. Araujo was talking about, one time
they had a system, and they constantly watered it down. Also, commissioner Ley has not
been able to get reports from DOFAW on this. The other thing that's coming up is the
Gun Regulations reports, so when you guys go to that meeting to be able to have on the
agenda a report and just an update. The other thing too, we just was on is NARS,
You have somebody from NARS make a presentation, what is their jurisdiction, why are
they up there, what do they do on this Island? How many acres do they have?
Chair there is also, at our last June 16t", meeting, we were given a memorandum by
Merrick Nishimoto, which was the enclosed administrative process for Game
Management Commission, it's hard to know if this is a proposed memorandum? It was
three (3) pages where he was telling us what is essentially needs to happen at our
meetings. Do we need to have him come here and kind of explain this memorandum?
KW: Try ask Barbara, if she knows.
31
RD: That was passed out at the June meeting. A Miss Wan at the beginning passed it out.
LT: Is that the one with the SunShine Law?
RD: Yeah, And if we didn't have quorum, we had to cancel the meeting and not have a
presentation is what he was saying in there.
KW: (Attorney Wong) If the commission doesn't have quorum, you can still have
presentations, you can ask the presenters questions, you can still take public testimony,
you can ask the testifiers questions, you just can't discuss or take any actions. You can
still have a meeting,
??: Can't vote on it either?
KW: Yes, you can still have a meeting. Sometimes it's hard for other boards and commission,
you know, you guys have to drive, people have to drive in, chairs of those other
commission they say we're just going to cancel so that people don't have to drive. So,
that's up to you chair and commission if you guys want to continue, everybody shows up
and whoever doesn't show up, if it's canceled, we still want to allow the meeting to
continue to proceed with the presentations. You know the presenters are also driving
here too and receive public testimony, that's the decision you guys can make.
BL: Brian Ley District 41 said the same thing to Sylvia Wan, and she still canceled the meeting.
I said we can still have the meeting and the presentation, we can't do anything official,
and she said NO! You don't have quorum; we're shutting the meeting down. After we all
drove here and did everything else.
KW: That's incorrect, you can still have presentation and public testimony, under Sunshine
Law. At the next subsequence meeting though, someone has to give a report.
LT: Yeah, okay
KW: You know the information
BL: And she still has a job...
??: Let's be honest...
BL: She sandbagged this commission for months, and she still has a position? I mean she
can't do her job; it's not like she got her thing, ..inaudible.....We just got testimony that
she blatantly lied to us and not let us have our meeting and set us back a month that we
were trying get the thing, we had to have a special meeting.
INAUDABLE......
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KW: There is no letter, commission has been re-assigned to Deputy Frenz.
INAUDABLE....to many talking of once
LT: Thank you very much for that change too
INAUDABLE....
TWC: Just acknowledging Abraham Antoinio, I appreciate the fact that we wouldn't have known
about this Maka'ala forest if it wasn't for him, because technically it has taken us behind
the scene, the public, because we are trying to do public situation to get out to the public
to set up booths, because we want the public to know on one hand to be more involved
that NARS are going to push this fence, without nobody even knowing. They have the
funding already to do this fence job. If it wasn't for Abraham, honestly from the ????and
looking back at the research, to help us do this, yes we did want zero for the fence, going
back and forth we didn't get it set in stone stuff like that 400 was a compromise, but in
regards to making roads accessible, punching different new roads, so it was like a
compromise, not set in stone also, yes, zero would be an absolute number for sure. I just
want to make that acknowledgement, that's why we want to make the public involved.
Pretty much making noise, through booths activities, possibly in the future through
pamphlets, radio announcements, stuff like that so that the public can be more aware
and active to where we can get the evenings going again, and the mayor is aware of that
and just get the ball rolling, new age...at different manner. So, that's what I wanted to
say.
RD: Chair one questions for corporate counsel, "If an agency refuses to come and meet with
us, do we have subpoena power? Can we force an agency or what's our process to have
someone to come like the Palila people?
KW: So, the commission do not have subpoena power. What I can tell you is that my
recommendation is to have the mayor reach out and ask an agency to be available. And
you know you can write out the reason why the commission wants to discuss XYZ please
confirm that a representative will, can present, and when those dates would be. And if I
could respond to commission Ley, because you know you were talking about got no reply
when you submitted to, I guess DLNR DOFAW, and got no response.
BL: I did submit and went in to talk to them several times...
KW: Okay...So they....
BL: Left messages and nobody returned anything...
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KW: State agencies are required to either to provide you with a response, saying we cannot
give you that information, or say, we will get you that information by this date. There is
a deadline under the US State of information agency.
�ni arrn In arrna °i.on Prac°tic°es Ac°t UIPA
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
(The Office of Information Practices ("OIP") was created by the Legislature in 1988 to
administer the Uniform Information Practices Act(Modified), chapter 92F, Hawaii Revised
Statutes ("UIPA"), which is Hawaii's public records law and can be found here. To help
government agencies and the public understand the UIPA, OIP has an Open Records Guide,
which can also be found here.)
BL: Does it have to be a written request?
KW: I can get you that form...
BL: I appreciate that...
LT: Thankyou very much...Alright Thank Very Much...Okay I have one(1) more. Just one more
question...for Corp Counsel, for our advertising our public education, like radio
announcements,does that have to go through the communication director of the county?
Or can we put out stuff on our own like public service announcement?
KW: I think communication from the commission itself, I think we should go through the
mayor's office, with Mr. Tom Callis. He is the mayor's PIO.
LT: Okay, all right that's it for our agenda. No one else ...Yes, sir,
?: (Steve Araujo) Did you guys submit the letter to Corp Counsel that you was suppose to
submit?
LT: Ummm
?: (Steve Araujo)Two days later, they are waiting for it.
LT: No, we didn't submit a letter because they fired her, before we submitted the letter, and
I communicated with the head of Corp counsel in person.
INAUDABLE....
?: (Steve Araujo) We didn't know that ...???Just asked a little while ago and how come she
still got job?
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KW: No, no, no, If I may, the assignment for this commission, was re-assigned to another
attorney. She got re-assigned.
LT: Re-assigned... Okay
KW: So, there is no need for a letter...
?: (Steve Araujo) This commission should be sent to those who help the commission also
when this meeting is going to be changed to evening time because, I not coming already.
This is taking too much of my work time,
LT: So, we communicated with Bill, the managing director, and he said, within thirty (30) he
will get an answer of the timing, the funding that you know, whatever excuse they have,
within thirty (30) days he'll have an answer for me on those excuses that have.
?: (Steve Araujo) Okay,Also, Corp Counsel office training,take theirtraining even if you have
to do a special meeting, usually training the public not involved. Take the training and
also do housekeeping. On your website, the last meeting was the beginning of June, the
special meeting is not on the agenda, it's not on the website. This meeting is not on the
public website. I personally had to go on the board in the front to look if there was a
meeting today and what was on the agenda. And also, when you go to the website,
there's got to be the agenda items. The website on the upper lefthand corner, it says,
PATH (?) The PATH is no longer supposed to say mayor's office, suppose to say county
council. Put your house in order. In my opinion, not having the minutes of the last
meeting available for this meeting to be approved is unacceptable, it is totally
unacceptable. You don't go to a county council meeting, oh sorry we don't have the
minutes of the last meeting. Everything is supposed to be in order. So again, I hope you
guys do good, I know you guys on the right path. Square your solidity away first,you guys
be solid, and whoever comes after you, you guys set the foundation. Some of you guys
can come back, right you know. Foundation set solid, and everything can move forward.
...inaudible.. With that being said, I see you guys when you have the evening meeting.
LT: Hopefully that's going to be in the next thirty (30) days. Just to confirm usually after the
meetings, I always go to the mayor's office and bug them so okay. Mahalo for that
everyone.
8. ANNOUNCEMENTS:
a. Next Meeting: August 19, 2025, at 9:00 a.m.
25 Aupuni Street, Puna Conference Room, 1501, Hilo HI 96720
LT: Moving on to the next Agenda Item Announcements Agenda Item 8A next meeting August
19, 9:00 am, here. Before we conclude, remember we were talking about making a
motion to change the rules to night-time? Instead of asking them, we create a motion we
push that ourselves...
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RD: Can that maybe be on the agenda?
LT: Okay so actually..
KW: So another piece of it that we make sure on the availability of facility space, which I think
the managing director (MD) Bill Brilhante is the part that he is looking into as well and
usually they alternate between Hilo and Kona, so I don't know if that is a consideration
for MD you know, bring that back, it may be something. I just throw that out there.
LT: I know today and tomorrow, Tuesday, and Wednesday the council long days, so he was
saying something about that, we may have to switch to Thursday. The open slot, we kind
of figured out anyway that was the situation.
TWC: Corp counsel you sure you available for one meeting?
KW: Yeah
LT: Okay so we got that added to next month's agenda item. If there's nothing left, can I
please get a motion to adjourn the meeting?
TWC: Taysen district 2 moves to adjourn the meeting...
BL: District 4 second
LT: I got a motion and a second to adjourn the meeting, any discussion none seen?
Roll call vote:
District 1 - Robert Duerr, aye
District 2—Taysen Wong Chong, aye
District 3— Rhon Leomana Turalde, aye
District 4— Brian Ley— aye
District 5-Vacant
District 6—Vacant
District 7—Able Aquino aye
District 8—Cortney Okumura — aye
District 9—Justin Ackerman— excused
Motion passed with 6 ayes and 1 excused.
The meeting adjourned at 11:12 a.m.
Respectfully submitted by,
Barbara Kossow
Secretary
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