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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-11-22 Water Board MinutesMEMBERS PRESENT: MINUTES DEPARTMENT OF WATER SUPPLY COUNTY OF HAWAII WATER BOARD MEETING November 22, 2005 HILO OPERATIONS CONFERENCE ROOM Mr. Ivan Mochida, Chairman Mr. Thomas Goya Ms. Paula Helfrich (10:05 a.m.) Mr. Bernard Konanui Ms. Sandra Scarr Mr. Riley Smith Mr. George Wilkins Mr. Milton D. Pavao, Manager (ex- officio member) ABSENT: Mr. Loren Heck, Vice - Chairman Ms. Millie Kim, Water Board Member Mr. Bruce McClure, Director, Department of Public Works (ex- officio member) OTHERS PRESENT: Ms. Katherine Garson, Deputy Corporation Counsel Mr. Daryn Arai, representing Mr. Christopher Yuen, Director, Planning Department (ex- officio member) Ms. Diane Robertson, R. W. Beck, Inc. Mr. Jon Nishimura, Fukunaga & Associates, Inc. Ms. Lynn Malinger, Fukunaga & Associates, Inc. Mr. Lance Fukumoto, Fukunaga & Associates, Inc. Department of Water Supply Staff: Mr. Quirino Antonio, Jr., Deputy Manager Mr. Glenn Ahuna, Engineering Division Head Mr. Daryl Ikeda, Chief of Operations Mr. Richard Tsunoda, Waterworks Controller Mr. Richard Sumada, Assistant Waterworks Controller Ms. Crestita Hudman, Customer Service Supervisor Mr. Lawrence Beck, Engineering Division Mr. Keith Okamoto, Engineering Division CALL TO ORDER - Chairman Mochida called the meeting to order at 10:02 a.m. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC None Page 1 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc APPROVAL OF MINUTES ACTION: Mr. Goya moved for approval of the Minutes of the October 25, 2005, Water Board Meeting; seconded by Mr. Wilkins and carried unanimously by voice vote. APPROVAL OF ADDENDUM AND /OR SUPPLEMENTAL AGENDA ACTION: Mr. Goya moved to add Addendum item 6a) NORTH KONA, JOB NO. 2001 -785, WAIAHA PRODUCTION WELL, request for contract extension, to the Agenda; seconded by Mr. Wilkins and carried by roll call vote (Ayes: 6 - Messrs. Goya, Konanui, Smith, Wilkins, and Chairman Mochida, and Ms. Scarr; Nays: 0; Absent: 3 - Mr. Heck and Mss. Helfrich and Kim). (Ms. Helfrich joined the meeting after approval of the Addendum.) SOUTH HILO: A. JOB NO. 2005-869, NON - REVENUE WATER LOSS STUDY FOR HILO, PHASE I: The Board considered a request from the contractor, Fluid Conservation Systems, Inc. (FCS), for a contract time extension of 120 calendar days due to the large number of leaks found in the initial phase of this study. Additional time will allow the Department to fix the major leaks and allow FCS to better evaluate the economic impact. This would be the first time extension to the contract. Staff has reviewed the request and finds that the 120 calendar days are justified. The Manager recommended that the Board grant this extension of contract time of 120 calendar days for JOB NO. 2005 -869, NON - REVENUE WATER LOSS STUDY FOR HILO, PHASE I, to the contractor, Fluid Conservation Systems, Inc. If approved, the completion date will be extended from November 30, 2005, to March 30, 2006. MOTION: Ms. Scarr moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Mr. Wilkins. Ms. Scarr asked if the leaks were so numerous that they had to be patched before continuing the study and also if it would take over 120 days to patch them. The Manager replied that if they are not patched, they would have a hard time finding the others. Mr. Ikeda added that there were so many leaks that they will take that long to patch. Mr. Wilkins asked what type of leaks they were - -pipe separation or leaks from the bell housing or cracks. The Manager explained that normally, leaks would be found in mechanical joints, service lateral installations, maybe pinhole leaks; but never separations because that would be so huge, it would immediately be detected. Page 2 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc Mr. Smith mentioned that he had spoken with Mr. Ikeda regarding this project; and the contractor has been successful in what they are being paid for, so he felt it is more than advantageous to approve this change order. ACTION: A vote was taken on the Motion. Motion was carried unanimously by voice vote. B. JOB NO. 2004-848, CONSTRUCTION OF THE KULAIMANO BOOSTER STATION IMPROVEMENTS: The Board considered a request from the contractor, Ed Higa General Contracting, for a 17 working -day time extension due to the following: • 7 working days due to additional work (Change order No. 1) • 10 working days for rain -out Staff has reviewed the request and finds that the 17 working days are justified. The Manager recommended that the Board approve a contract time extension of seventeen (17) working days from November 23, 2005, to December 19, 2005, to Ed Higa General Contracting for JOB NO. 2004 -848, CONSTRUCTION OF THE KULAIMANO BOOSTER STATION IMPROVEMENTS. ACTION: Mr. Goya moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Ms. Scarr and carried unanimously by voice vote. SOUTH KOHALA: A. JOB NO. 2004-851, CONSTRUCTION OF THE LALAMILO DEEPWELL D MOTOR CONTROLLER REPLACEMENT: One bid was received and opened on November 3, 2005, with the following results: Bidder Able Electric, Inc. Amount $193,108.20 The contractor will have 120 calendar days to complete the project. The Manager recommended that the Water Board award the contract for JOB NO. 2004 -851, CONSTRUCTION OF THE LALAMILO DEEPWELL D MOTOR CONTROLLER REPLACEMENT, to sole bidder, Able Electric, Inc., for the bid amount of $193,108.20 plus $6,891.80 for contingencies for a total of $200,000.00 and that either the Chairman or the Vice - Chairman be authorized to sign the contract, subject to review as to form and legality of the contract by Corporation Counsel. MOTION: Mr. Goya moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Mr. Wilkins. Page 3 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc The Board asked about the fact that there was only one bidder and if staff felt comfortable with this bid price. Mr. Ikeda replied that there was another bidder, but they submitted their bid past the deadline and were disqualified. There were four companies that had picked up the bid documents. ACTION: A vote was taken on the Motion. Motion was carried unanimously by voice vote. NORTH KONA: A. JOB NO. 2001-785, CONSTRUCTION OF THE WAIAHA PRODUCTION WELL AND 2.0 -MG RESERVOIR: By Addendum, the Board considered a request from the contractor, Isemoto Contracting Company, Ltd., for an extension of contract time of 59 calendar days to allow for the late delivery of electrical power to test the new equipment (38 calendar days) and for the additional time needed to replace the originally designed booster pump control panel. The contractor's installation schedule for the replacement control panel will be delayed approximately 21 calendar days to allow for redesigning, fabricating, and shipping. This is the contractor's fourth time extension request. Staff has evaluated this request and finds that the 59- calendar day extension is justified. The previous time extensions were listed: I" time extension July 5, 2005, to September 11, 2005 (Lava tube probing and backfilling). 2nd time extension September 11, 2005, to November 2, 2005 (Gauging and video logging the well casing). 3 d time extension November 2, 2005, to November 28, 2005 (Delay due to late shipment of equipment from supplier). The Manager recommended that the Board grant Isemoto Contracting Company, Ltd., a 59- calendar day extension for JOB NO. 2001 -785, CONSTRUCTION OF THE WAIAHA PRODUCTION WELL AND 2.0 -MG RESERVOIR, from November 30, 2005, to January 28, 2006. MOTION: Ms. Scarr moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Mr. Wilkins. In response to Mr. Smith's question as to who is responsible for the late delivery of electricity, the Manager replied that it is Hawaii Electric Light Company, Inc., (HELLO). Ms. Scarr wondered if a letter should be written to them, reminding them to perform on time. This is not the first time that HELCO has held up projects for this Department. The Manager stated that the project engineers are in constant contact with HELCO and have a good working relationship with them. He would not want to jeopardize that relationship. ACTION: A vote was taken on the Motion. Motion was carried unanimously by voice vote. Page 4 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc MISCELLANEOUS: A. DEDICATION OF WATER SYSTEM: The Department received the following document for action by the Water Board. The water system has been constructed in accordance with the Department's standards and is in acceptable condition for dedication. 1. GRANT OF EASEMENT AND BILL OF SALE ESTATES OF MAUNA KEA (PHASE 1 & 2 AND DRIVEWAYS 1 & 2) aka KANAOA AT MAUNA KEA Subdivision Application No. 2000 -041 Grantor: Kohala - Woodvale Associates, LLC E.W.O.: 2004 -079 & 2004 -093 T.M.K.: 6-2-019:024,0-26,029 TO 036, INCLUSIVE Lots: 32 Zoning: RM -20 Facilities Charge: $201,600.00 (112 units @ $1,800.00) Paid: 12/21/92 Final Inspection Date: 11110105 Water System Cost: $585,166.00 The Manager recommended that the Water Board accept this document subject to the approval of the Corporation Counsel and that either the Chairman or the Vice - Chairman be authorized to sign the document. ACTION: Ms. Scarr moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Mr. Goya and carried unanimously by voice vote. B. PROFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT: Professional Service Agreement contract for the following Department of Water Supply project is currently being considered. However, the project is not listed on the Department's current 5 -year Capital Improvements Projects list. 1) Job No. 2005 -881, Service Lateral Installation Plans Within State Right -of -Way This project is to provide the Department with the final plans to obtain permits to install service laterals within the State highway right -of -way and will be done on an as- needed basis. Currently, plans are being provided by Imata & Associates, Inc. ( Imata), at a cost of $3,000.00 plus surveying fees. The surveying fees are currently $600.00 for the Hilo and Puna districts, $800.00 for the Hamakua and Ka`u districts, and $1,200.00 for the Kamuela, Kohala, and Kona districts. Estimated yearly expense for plans and surveying - $60,000.00. Funding for the project will be from the Operations Division's contractual services budget. The Manager recommended that the Board approve the request to have a professional services agreement for Job No. 2005 -881, Service Lateral Installation Plans Within State Right -of -Way, Page 5 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc subject to the results of the procurement process, and that either the Chairman or the Vice - Chairman be authorized to sign the documents, subject to approval of our Corporation Counsel. MOTION: Ms. Scarr moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Mr. Wilkins. The Manager explained that this ties in with having to have permits from State Highways. The Department has no choice but to do this project. In response to Mr. Smith's question about Imata's performance, the Manager replied the Department has been satisfied with their work. He added that this type of work is why the contract is for one year. ACTION: A vote was taken on the Motion. Motion was carried unanimously by voice vote. C. MONTHLY PROGRESS REPORT: Upon Ms. Scarr's request, staff reported on the projects the Department is experiencing difficulties with, which are as follows: 1. Job No. 95 -621, Pohakea Water System Improvements, Phases 1 and 2 - the electricity is in; and although the system is useable, the contract is still not closed out. 2. Job No. 98 -721, Construction of the New Kawailani 1.0 M.G. Reservoir & Removal of Existing 0.5 M.G. Steel Tank - experiencing problems with the roof of the new tank. In response to Ms. Scarr's request for an update on the Pahala 0.5 -M.G. Reservoir (Job No. 2000 -765), the Manager replied that the cave was an issue; but it has been resolved. D. REVIEW OF MONTHLY FINANCIAL STATEMENTS: No questions. E. PROPOSED REVISION TO SERVICE LATERAL INSTALLATION CHARGES FOR STATE RIGHT -OF -WAYS: Attached to the Agenda were options for a proposed change to the published Water Rates. The Manager recommended that the Board agree in concept to an option provided to revise the published Water Rates and that the Department schedule public hearings in 2006, for that purpose, to accept public input. MOTION: Mr. Goya moved for approval of the Manager's recommendation; seconded by Mr. Wilkins. The Manager recommended that all four options be available for the customer to choose from. Page 6 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc Mr. Smith suggested that to allow the Department flexibility, that a Number 5 be added, "Or combination of above." The Manager stated that he could draft the revision to be brought to the Board at its December meeting. Mr. Wilkins thought the Board should go on record to approve something. Ms. Garson stated that the recommendation is "concept" and that a friendly amendment may be appropriate. AMENDMENT: Mr. Smith moved to amend the Motion to include a Number 5, "Or combination of above "; seconded by Mr. Wilkins. Mr. Smith asked when this comes before the Board for approval, would it be in a format that would be submitted for the public; and instead of a flat fee, if it would include a dollar amount. The Manager replied that it would not. The costs will be estimated. He could give the Board an idea of what the estimated costs are, but it would not be in the write -up. An estimated cost would be made at the time the person comes in to apply. ACTION ON AMENDMENT: A vote was taken on the Amendment. Motion was carried unanimously by voice vote. ACTION TO APPROVE MOTION AS AMENDED: A vote was taken on the Motion, as amended. Motion was carried unanimously by voice vote. F. WATER VARIANCES: The Manager reported on the procedures and authority in granting variance to the Subdivision Ordinance regarding water system construction, at the request of Mr. Smith. When he became Manager in 1995, he advised the Planning Department that the Department of Water Supply (DWS) would not be doing variances any more, because he did not think it was this Department's responsibility because it is not a land - planning agency. DWS should only indicate if water is available or not and should not make exceptions. This is what the Department has been doing consistently. The exceptions, right now, are being made by the Planning Director. The exception he makes is to the subdivision ordinance, which requires a water system that meets the DWS' standards for every subdivision. In his authority, the Planning Director has the option to grant a variance for that. A good example is there are a lot of subdivisions out in Kalopa, Mountain View, and South Kona, where the Planning Director has granted variances so they do not have to meet the water requirements because, in some cases, it does not exist or is too expensive to do. Some of those done on DWS' system come back to haunt us because after they subdivide, people come in asking for water and are advised to check their deed because they do not have water. Page 7 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc Mr. Smith stated that the reason he wanted the Manager to report on this is to clarify that the Board does not have a role in this as part of that decision - making process. Whatever the Planning Department chooses to do is their issue. The Manager stated that variances have gone as far as the Planning Director going on record to give variances for the type of tanks, type of pipe, etc. There are various types of variances that he can grant under his authority. Chairman Mochida asked Mr. Arai if he wanted to comment. Mr. Arai stated that when the Planning Director does consider variances, it is not in the absence of any consultation with DWS for recommendations. As for requirements for construction and pipeline sizes, they rely strongly on the DWS' recommendations. The Manager added that on the ones they give variances for as to type of equipment, the Planning Director is asked to insert language that if they ever consider dedicating that subdivision back to DWS, they have to retrofit to the Department's standards. Mr. Goya asked about second dwellings and catchment systems as they pertain to variances. Mr. Arai replied that ohana, or farm dwellings, for which a second dwelling is placed on the property that is permitted for only one dwelling, are forwarded to DWS for comments. The Planning Department takes the position that if an additional meter is not available, they would not be included to grant that approval. It may be slightly different with farm dwellings, given its location; and consideration is given to the agricultural potential of the property. However, the Department of Water Supply does provide its comments and whether an additional meter can be supplied. It was a problem in the past but now is incorporated into their rules and procedures in order to coordinate with DWS. The Deputy Manager pointed out that variances or subdivisions approved without water have an indirect effect on the Department's water systems because of water hauling during dry periods. Ms. Scarr stated that she was curious if the Planning Commission would ever want to talk to or hear from this Department about the stresses they can create if they approve these non - standard systems or no water systems in subdivisions. Maybe they would benefit from inviting the Manager to come and talk with them. Mr. Arai replied that the variances are granted at the administrative level and not by any board; but if there were any concerns, he would share them with the Planning Director. It may be hard to clearly articulate a concern "across the board" when considering water variances because of the variables involved. That is why they review them on a case -by -case basis and try not to apply any one given standard. The Manager stated that variances are good as long as the same owner occupies the lot. If they sell, the new owner may complain to the DWS that they do not have (County water); and it happens all the time. Page 8 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc Mr. Wilkins thought it would benefit the Board to know what kind of guidelines the Department uses when commenting to the Planning Department to give the Board a better understanding. (Mr. Arai left the meeting at 10:32 a.m.) G. PRESENTATION BY R. W. BECK INC.: R. W. Beck, Inc., presented the Board with an update of the Water Master Plan. Ms. Robertson provided the Board with a handout and reviewed the status. Mr. Wilkins and Ms. Scarr asked about the ranking of the projects and why the strategic direction is not used in the criteria. Ms. Robertson explained that they are shown on a detailed sheet. In the next month, they will be finalizing that portion and giving the Board a "final chapter." There will be an opportunity to talk about what the Board wants to see after that time. Mr. Goya asked if Ocean View was included. The Manager replied it was not, and the reason is mainly because funding will be from an outside source. Discussion followed regarding hiring temporary workers in addition to full -time staff. The Board asked R. W. Beck, Inc., to consider possible options to get through the bottleneck in Engineering staff because it holds back expanding the system. Ms. Robertson stated that they would be addressing that. She concluded with a schedule of upcoming Board input at its meetings: January 24, 2006 - new financial plan and rate impacts March 21, 2006 - review rate options May 23, 2006 - adopt new rates (if necessary) They are looking at a new five -year rate schedule beginning in 2007. Ms. Scarr stated that this is a turning point for the Department. The Department's Mission Statement indicates serving the water needs of Hawaii County. To do that, the Department needs to be bigger and have more expertise. Money is not the issue. The Manager mentioned the increased office space the Department will have in its main office, making room for needed personnel. Also, the Department has just gone through an engineering recruitment but did not receive any responses from local residents. Some applied from the mainland but did not come for interviews. Ms. Helfrich commented that this is a cummulative thing presently; but hopefully in the next five years, the County will not have this avalanche of migration. She suggested a moderate approach to expanding the Department. Page 9 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc The Manager agreed that you could end up with too many engineers that may not be needed in the future if development takes a downturn. Ms. Scarr stated that a backlog has been identified in the County that needs to be addressed and would probably extend into the next 20 years. The Department can do less or more, but it is in the Department's vision to do more. She did not think the Department would run out of projects to do to meet the County needs. The weakness in the current system is that it is not interconnected. The Manager commented that maybe the Department needs to rethink the way it hires personnel and may not necessary need engineers, but, rather, assistants to the engineers. The Board thanked Ms. Robertson for her presentation. BREAK: The Board took a break from 11:05 a.m. to 11:15 a.m. (Mr. Sumada and Ms. Hudman left the meeting.) H. WATER USE AND DEVELOPMENT PLAN: Mr. Jon Nishimura of Fukunaga & Associates, Inc., provided an update of the Water Use and Development Plan (WUDP) status. The objective is to set the allocation of water and land use through the development of policies and strategies in planning, management, and development of water resources to meet projected demands. Ms. Helfrich asked about the sustainable yield - -it does not necessarily say where it is. It is the whole island, but it is not necessarily in the place where the water is needed. Mr. Nishimura replied that they are doing their study by aquifer system. What they are finding is that current development is nowhere near the full build -out scenario, but you want to know when you will get there. Ms. Scarr stated that if you throw desalination into the equation and you were able to build desalination plants around the island, the aquifer capacity would not apply. Mr. Nishimura explained that this study is taking into account the natural resources rather than non - conventional ways of supplying water. The question is when do you need to get into that level. Based on current resources, the study will determine if land use policies stand up. Right now, they appear to be sustainable; however, the vision may not be easily sustainable. Zoning, which is the legally developed level of development, appears to be sustained. If people build out of their rightful zoned level, then there could be a danger of exceeding the available resource. Ms. Scarr stated that this is not what you would want to happen. If a person says they want to build on a lot in a dry area where there are no wells, then this plan would discourage that. Maybe it should indicate if they want to build there, they have to find other methods of getting water. Mr. Nishimura explained that they want to use this as a tool because right now, it is not known how sustainable the land use policy is. He reviewed what has been completed to date and Page 10 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc indicated that a series of public meetings will be held on the draft report -- possibly in Hilo, Kona, Ka`u and Waimea. Ms. Scarr stated that she would be curious to know what the cost benefit would be for desalination of water. There is a lot of brackish water on the west side of this island. She reiterated that if you take into account new methods, capacity would not be a problem. The Manager stated that he was sure Fukunaga & Associates, Inc., is aware of that; however, they are looking into land use and addressing water. It is their intent to begin to prioritize the island and present it to the State. The study is to protect the water resources. He added that there were projects done for Maui County where dual water systems were a condition of approval. Chairman Mochida thanked Mr. Nishimura for his presentation. He asked that in the future, staff try not to schedule more than one presentation for a meeting because of time constraints. I. MANAGER'S REPORT: 1) Kona Coastview/Wonderview Improvement District - project going well. 2) USGS Drilling Program - they are down to 1,840 feet. Elevation is 1,930 so they have 90 feet to go. 3) Kona Water Quality - still in negotiation with four different developers; discussions continuing. 4) Water Board Schedule for 2006 - the Board decided to hold its February meeting in Waimea with a tour of facilities to follow. The schedule will be presented at next month's meeting. 5) Letter to State of Hawaii, Department of Transportation (DOT) - the Manager handed out a letter he drafted to the DOT. If okay, both he and the Chairman can sign and have it sent out. Ms. Garson asked if the Board wanted to give the authority for that to be done. ACTION: Mr. Smith moved that the Board give the Chairman the authority to sign a letter with minor modifications that he had given to the Manager; seconded by Ms. Helfrich and carried unanimously by voice vote. J. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT: Chairman Mochida reported that Mr. Wilkins wanted to put something on the Agenda on HELCO desalination. Mr. Wilkins may contact either the Manager or Secretary. K. EXECUTIVE SESSION: The Board convened an executive meeting to consider the evaluations of the Manager, as authorized by Hawaii Revised Statutes, Sections 92 -4 and 92- 5(a)(2). ACTION TO ENTER EXECUTIVE SESSION: Mr. Smith moved that the Board enter Executive Session; seconded by Mr. Wilkins and carried unanimously by voice vote. (Executive Session began at 11:48 a.m. and ended at 12:00 p.m.) Page 11 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc L. MANAGER'S EVALUATION: The Manager reported that from January to October 2005, Bargaining Unit 1 (blue collar workers) received a 10% pay increase in three increments, and Bargaining Units 3 (clerical), 4 (supervisor), and 13 (professional) got up to 12.5 %. He thinks that is excessive for one year. Mr. Smith asked whether any of the Department's staff make more than the Manager because it is typical within the County. The Manager stated that what the Board has done has pretty much given the Manager's position the same kind of pay raises that the union gave the staff in an effort to keep the equality. Ms. Scarr asked where that places the highest engineers' salaries within the Department. Mr. Ahuna indicated it was $85,000.00 to $90,000.00. Ms. Scarr stated that would bring it to $114,000.00. In response to Chairman Mochida's question of what the Manager would expect, he replied 8% because 10% is excessive. Ms. Garson suggested that this be placed on next month's Agenda for action because the Agenda write -up for this month was vague. Ms. Helfrich mentioned the industry salary increase outside bargaining units is about 8 %. Maybe it would fair to look at 8 to 10% and select accordingly. Ms. Scarr thought the Board should go with 12.5% like Bargaining Units 3, 4, and 13. The Board has, in the past, stuck to the notion that it does not want to decrease the difference between the Manager's salary and his professional staff's salary and proposed that the Board set the salary from next year at $114,000.00. Ms. Garson suggested that next month, discussion and action may be taken on this item and also include an effective date. ANNOUNCEMENTS: 1. Next Meeting: The next meeting of the Water Board will be held on December 20, 2005, 10:00 a.m., in the Hilo Operations Center Conference Room, 889 Leilani Street, Hilo, Hawaii. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC None Page 12 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc ADJOURNMENT ACTION: Mr. Goya moved for adjournment of the Meeting; seconded by Mr. Wilkins and carried unanimously by voice vote. (Meeting adjourned at 12:07 p.m.) Secretary The Department of Water Supply is an Equal Opportunity provider and employer. To file a complaint of discrimination, write: USDA, Director, Office of Civil Rights, Room 326 -W, Whitten Building, 14"' and Independence Avenue, SW, Washington DC 20250 -9410. Or call (202) 720 -5964 (voice and TDD) Page 13 of 13 11 -22 -05 Minutes.doc