HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-08-28 Salary Commission Minutes
REGULAR SESSION
Salary Commission
Hilo Council Chambers
Hawaiʻi County Building
25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401
Hilo, Hawai‘i
August 28, 2025 (Thursday)
Call to Order (Item 1)
The regular meeting of the Salary Commission, County of Hawaiʻi, was called to order at
10:09 a.m., by Chair Steven Pavao, at the Hilo Council Chambers, Hawaiʻi County Building,
25 Aupuni Street, First Floor, Room 1401, Hilo, Hawaiʻi, on Thursday, August 28, 2025.
Roll Call – Present
Mr. Steven Pavao, Chair
Ms. Donala Kawaʻauhau, Vice-Chair
Mr. Jules Dudoit, Member
Ms. Luahiwa Namahoe, Member
Mr. Sam Nelson, Member
Ms. Sommer J. Tokihiro, Ex-Officio Member
Absent and Excused
Mr. Dennis Riordan, Member
Also Present
Ms. Dakota “Cody” Frenz, Deputy Corporation Counsel, Office of the Corporation Counsel
Ms. Michele Lamkin, Human Resources Program Specialist, Human Resources Department
Ms. Jenn Kagiwada, Council Member, Hawai ʿ i County Council
Ms. Glynis Yamada, Secretary-Reporter, Human Resources Department
Salary Commission August 28, 2025
Call to Order (Item 1)
CHR. PAVAO: Okay, we’ll call the meeting to order. We’ll start with doing a rollcall,
(inaudible) your name and your district.
MR. DUDOIT: Commissioner Dudoit.
MS. NAMAHOE: Commissioner Namahoe.
CHR. PAVAO: Chair Pavao.
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Commissioner Kawaʻauhau.
MR. NELSON: Sam Nelson.
MS. TOKIHIRO: Sommer Tokihiro.
CHR. PAVAO: Thank you.
MS. FRENZ: Chair, also present, I’m Deputy Corporation Counsel Cody Frenz, and we have
our Secretary Glynis Yamada.
Statements from the Public (Item 2)
CHR. PAVAO: Okay. On to our agenda. The next item is “Statements from the Public” on
Agenda Items. Do we have any statements from the public?
MS. FRENZ: No, Chair.
CHR. PAVAO: None. No statements from the public.
Approval of Minutes (Item 3)
CHR. PAVAO: No minutes to approve. So, we’ll suspend that.
Informational Briefings (Item 4)
A) Informational Briefing By Deputy Corporation Counsel Dakota “Cody” Frenz: The
Informational Briefing May Include, But Is Not Limited To, The Following - Expectations
And Responsibilities Of The Salary Commission; Process For Salary Adjustments
CHR. PAVAO: And informational briefings—Deputy Corp. Counsel Cody Frenz.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. FRENZ: Thank you. Chair. Good morning, again, everyone. So, I—everyone that’s with
us here today had been a party to our previous work in 2024 to adjust the salary wages for
appointed and elected officials pursuant to the Charter.
So, I just—does anyone have questions given that we don’t have any new members here today?
CHR. PAVAO: No, I don’t.
MS. FRENZ: No? Okay. One gentle reminder, under the Charter that if this—if and when this
body were to decide to do any increases or decreases of more than 10%, it requires an affirmative
two-thirds vote of the entire membership of this body.
And we would, again, need to run any potential salary increases in the newspaper and hold our
required public meetings, as we did previously, and draft the proposed Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law as we’ve previously done.
If you have any questions, you can either let me know or email me and we can meet either after
this separately or I can do Zooms with any of you guys, if you have any questions about the
duties and responsibilities of this Commission under the Charter.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay. Any questions?
B) Informational Briefing By Director Of Human Resources Sommer J. Tokihiro - The
Informational Briefing May Include, But Is Not Limited To, The Following: Exhibit A-1:
Salary Ordinance Of 2025 (Ordinance No. 25-39); Exhibit A-2: Compensation Plan For
The County Of Hawaiʻi (As Of July 1, 2025); Exhibit A-3: County Of Hawaiʻi Pay Plan
For Executives And Elected Officials (Effective January 1, 2025); Collective Bargaining
Negotiation Updates; Exhibit A-4: Resolution No. 188-25 (Cost Items As Negotiated And
Ratified With HGEA For Bargaining Units 02, 03, 04, 13 And Employees Excluded From
Those Bargaining Units); Exhibit A-5: Resolution No. 189-25 (Cost Items As Negotiated
And Ratified With UPW Bargaining Unit 01); Information Concerning Status Of Unions
Where Agreements Are Pending
CHR. PAVAO: If not, we’ll move on to Item B—it’s just an informational briefing by Director
of Human Resources Sommer Tokihiro.
MS. TOKIHIRO: Hi, good morning, everyone. Sommer Tokihiro, Director of Human
Resources.
We’ve provided you with a variety of information for review and consideration. I’m happy to
answer questions—there’s a lot of information for review.
MR. NELSON: So, this is Nelson—so I was just wondering if all the negotiations with the
unions are done? Is that correct? I mean, they got the salary increases are set and that’s good for
the next four years.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. TOKIHIRO: No.
MR. NELSON: Okay.
MS. TOKIHIRO: We have—so we’re currently in arbitration with SHOPO—the police officers’
union. We will be going to arbitration with the Fire Fighters Association—HFFA, and we’ll also
be completing arbitration for Bargaining Unit 15—which Bargaining Unit 15 is our Water Safety
Officers.
So, the other units have all agreed and we have—yeah, increases for HGEA—for all of the units
except for 15—and UPW as well.
So, those increases are outlined in the resolution—Reso. 188-25 and 189-25. But, basically, the
increases for both UPW and HGEA is a four-year contract. The first year of the contract was
3.5—and a 3.5% increase, then a 3.79% increase in year two, and then in years three and four—
is a 4% increase for each year.
So, the way that the bargaining units’ structure those increases is a little bit different. So, for
some units they wanted to maintain their “step movements”—and so, their step movements have
a value, so we would deduct that from across-the-board increase to the base salary because
they’re going to get that monies through those step movement process.
But, basically, the sum total of the increases is all the percentages that I gave. It’s just structured
a little bit differently for each unit based on their membership and how they wanted that
structured.
MR. NELSON: So, is that what happened with BU35—‘cause I was looking at the percentages
and they’ve got smaller percentage increases—is what it appears to be.
MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah. So, BU35 is a bargaining unit for our excluded employees. So, like for
example, positions in HR follow—we’re in BU35, so it’s not actually a part of the union but it
tracks increases for BU13—for HGEA BU13. Yeah.
So, yes, that’s what happened in that case because Bargaining Unit 13 elected to continue step
movements, so the percentages were adjusted.
MR. NELSON: Okay. So, effectively, everybody that’s in negotiated has got the three-and-a-
half—the 3.79 (inaudible).
MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct. Yes.
MR. NELSON: All right. Thank you.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. TOKIHIRO: So, there’s a lot of concern in the collective bargaining negotiation process
about the issues with possible federal spending cuts and how that’s going to play out and how
that will affect the State and the counties. And so, that was a big part of the discussions in just
some of that uncertainty and how we come to an agreement on a contract that is reasonable for
all and, hopefully, that we can all—yeah, live with.
MS. NAMAHOE: This is Namahoe. Are you saying that to just, kind of, elucidate what was
going on in those meetings or is that going to lead to a conservative conversation about what we
should be doing with the salaries—
MS. TOKIHIRO: No—what this Salary Commission decides to do in this—I’m just explaining
part of that negotiation process.
MS. NAMAHOE: Got it.
MS. TOKIHIRO: Yeah.
MS. NAMAHOE: Okay. Trying to figure out which ears to use when you say that. Thank you.
MS. TOKIHIRO: You’re welcome.
CHR. PAVAO: This is Chair Pavao—my perspective is the County has negotiated four-year
contracts with the major collective bargaining units and some negotiating without it. But the
Unit 13 and the excluded increases, I think, is probably the most applicable comparison to the
appointed and elected officials. So, that will be the 3.5, 3.79, and 4%, and 4% for the life of the
four-year contract.
I mean, our goal as we had talked about before was trying to have parity. We don’t want the
situation again, where you have subordinates making more than their appointed supervisors or
elected supervisors. So, your thoughts?
MS. NAMAHOE: Luahiwa, again. Wait—Mr. Nelson, go—go ahead.
MR. NELSON: No—so I would just suggest that we mirror those same increases—each one for
each year. You’re right, that BU35—I mean, it is comparable, and I think that’s what you should
plug in.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah.
MS. NAMAHOE: Hi, Namahoe, again. So, we were all here through 2023 and 2024, and just a
quick refresher on how we came about with the decisions that we did.
We were looking at, at the time, there was really high inflation. We started with BU13, but we
didn’t let that be our biggest driver—as I recall the data and as I recall how some of us were
doing the numbers on this. Mr. Farahi, who’s no longer on the Board, what we looked at was
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
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tracking it to inflation markers, which is how we came up with a 22.44% parity for January 1,
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2025—and then, the correction for July 1 of 5%.
So, I just want to remind all of us that we looked, originally, at BU13 and then we realized that
was not satisfactory to the needs at hand. We also looked at the other employers, the counties—
and, also, realized that wasn’t—we didn’t track to either what Maui, Kaua ʿ i, or City and County
of Honolulu did. That’s all.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, thank you. And that’s—and it is correct, we did do a deeper dive what
was one of the issues to where we were trying to play catch-up. The Commission hadn’t met in
several years and they were, what—four or five years of no pay increases for the elected and
appointed officials.
So, we did look at cost of living, inflation—we did some examination of private sector
comparable positions and then, of course, again, looked at BU13 and the excluded Bargaining
Unit 35.
At this point, we’re—I think we did a good job in getting caught up. So, the goal, I think, of the
Commission is to make sure that we stay on that path, that we maintain parity going forward.
We could still look at cost of living and other issues and do a deeper dive, for sure. I mean, if
that’s the will of the Commission—yeah. At this point, at least, we’re not playing four or five
years of catch up.
SPEAKER: Like we were.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah. Any more discussion?
MR. NELSON: Well, I do think the challenge is if we try to—if we give more than what the
union got—I think that’s going to be a problem from a parity standpoint, in terms of that. If we
give less—again, it’s a parity issue, right, and try to—I mean, that was deep—I think where we
we’re trying—went last time and I think we should try to stick with that same approach.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I think that if you—we end up giving more than
the collective bargaining units received in collective bargaining that might give the union some
basis to want to re-open negotiations to get an additional increase.
So, if the goal is parity—my opinion, we should mirror the Bargaining Unit 35 pay raise as the
same percentage.
MS. FRENZ: BU 13?
CHR. PAVAO: Thirty-five/13 unit—but it’s 35—is pretty much the same with 13 but minus the
step movements.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MR. NELSON: The only difference would be if there’s individual positions that need to get
adjusted. I mean, if there are—I don’t know if anybody’s going to come back and say, oh—I
saw something a while back—“Oh, the Finance Director’s not getting paid enough or should be
getting paid as much as the OSCER person” or whatever.
So, I don’t know if there’s any of those things in there. I mean—and I don’t know if we need to
explore that or we could do that later? I mean, basically, we could do an across-the-board
increase—‘cause everybody got a pay raise effective on July. So, we’re only in August now.
So, really, there’s no sense of urgency, I guess, necessarily—but, right, I mean, we could
(inaudible).
MS. FRENZ: I’m just—this is DCC Cody. I would just clarify that the raises that this body
implemented were from 2024. So, the 22.4% was January 1, 2024; 5% was July 1, 2024—so,
it’s actually been a year-and-a-month since that 5%.
So, I just wanted to clarify, ‘cause I think I heard “2025” earlier and it was “2024”—so, it’s been
st
a year-and-a-month since the July 1, 2024—I mean, neither here nor there regarding what you
decide to do—I just to clarify it’s been a year-and-a-month—not a month for what that’s worth.
MS. NAMAHOE: This is Namahoe, again. You’re right. I also want to do one more thing and
remind us that I’m really proud of the work that this Board has done because we’ve also gone
through the thorny situation of a Councilperson coming here, giving us some suggestions.
We bit on that too fast and then we had to go through a corrective process in order to provide
true parity—if you recall all of those details. I don’t need to bring them up, again, but to the
point that Mr. Nelson just made, if we do make—need to consider corrections for any other
colleague, we now know how to do it and how not to do it.
CHR. PAVAO: I think there’s some further discussion on the agenda about specific positions,
especially positions that require licenses, like, engineers and attorneys—that those pay salaries
might have to be adjusted in order to be competitive, in order to recruit and retain people in those
positions—but I think we can vote on this specific issue and deal with that separately. There’re
other—there’s a variety of suggestions about how we can approach that—and that would take
more time and energy and a deeper dive.
But if the concern or the intent is to maintain parity, I would suggest that we vote and
appropriate—the 3.5, 3.79, and 4%, and 4% over the four years of the current situation—the
current contracts that collective bargaining units have. Any more discussion or a motion or—
MR. NELSON: So, I agree. I agree with you on that. Now, the question is for Cody—so if we,
basically, vote on that today, we’d have to put it in the paper, and go through that whole process,
right? So, when would it take effect, if we did do it?
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. FRENZ: So, if you were to make a motion and if it was just generalized a certain
percentage across-the-board, then you are not looking at specific positions, right—it’ll just be a
generalized across-the-board.
You would need to provide me with enough information—that’s your Findings of Fact,
Conclusions of Law that support the rationale for that motion. I would then draft that, bring it
back to you guys at a subsequent meeting. You would approve that, we would then run it in the
newspaper—30 days thereafter, we’d be holding our public hearing—assuming that that motion
carried by two-thirds or more—then, and only thereafter, could that hypothetically take action
based on a motion to adopt those proposed Findings and Conclusions—and those raises, if
(inaudible).
So, theoretically, if we left today with a motion of something very specific with the Findings and
Conclusions of Law that supports such, I would draft that between now and the next hearing. I
am not available for the next hearing, but I’ll have somebody here covering for me and would
just be facilitating the adoption of those Findings or modification, which is not a problem—
anyone can do that.
We would then work with Ms. Yamada to run that in the newspaper, hold our public hearings—
like we did. So, theoretically, it could—it’d be very tight, but it could be as early as January—
but that would be a tight one. So, you’d have to have those Findings ready today to help me
articulate what I’m going to be drafting.
And, I guess, my only caution in that sense is we’ve only been meeting for maybe 15 minutes so
far, right—I mean, just realistically, right, I’m (inaudible) protect you all. I’m the attorney for
this Commission—we’ve been meeting for 15 minutes and if you’re ready to make a motion—
that is your kuleana, right. That is what you’re here for.
But I don’t know that I’ve heard anything that necessarily gives me the basis to draft those
findings other than we’re just going to track with BU13 and/or 35. And, if that is the basis, then
that is the basis—and we will put that forth and receive public testimony and see if that changes
your opinion.
But I just want to make sure that we have a—there’s a method to the madness, right, that we are
taking action—or you are, excuse me—taking action which is supported in fact and law. And we
haven’t quite gotten through, I would just say—maybe consider—we haven’t gotten through the
communications. I know that Councilmember Kagiwada is also present and maybe—she had
submitted one of the communications—another one of the communications which we haven’t
gotten through yet—we’re still on Director Tokihiro’s informative informational briefing—
includes what other jurisdictions have done.
So, I think there’s a little more to consider before, so I just caution you to make a motion at this
precise moment. Maybe when we’re through everything, if you still want to—understanding
what I need from you to be able to articulate such—I can help you do that, if you’re ready to do
that.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, we can table that—come back. I mean, if that’s the consensus. I think
the Finding of Facts is fairly simple—with the jurisdictions has negotiated through their
collective bargaining process with the collective bargaining units—and the goal of the
Commission is to maintain parity between the appointed and elected official and the collective
bargaining members. So, yeah, based on the negotiated pay increases—pretty simple, I think, in
my mind as far as the Findings of Facts are concerned.
But we can move on to the agenda and come back and revisit this issue, if you want—that’s fine.
It’s a good idea to be more fully informed. Okay. So, we’ll table this for now and come back to
it.
MR. NELSON: (Inaudible.) You got her communication and she’s here.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, Councilmember—
Communication(s) (Item 5)
MS. FRENZ: If we want to move on to the “Communication,” section 5, that would be great.
Communication No. 25-03, From Councilmember Jenn Kagiwada, District 2, Transmitting
A Letter Dated August 21, 2025, Requesting Consideration For Pay Increases For The
Directors Of The Departments Of Public Works (DPW) And Environmental Management
(DEM)
Communication No. 25-02, From Deputy Corporation Dakota “Cody” Frenz, Submitting
For Information The “Supplemental Agreement, BU13, Compensation For Engineering
Classes Of Work”
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah. So, we’ll go on to that. Do you—Cody, you want to—maybe we’ll hear
from Council Member Kagiwada.
MS. FRENZ: So, Chair, we’re skipping on to Communication number 25-03.
CHR. PAVAO: 25-03—yes. Thank you.
MS. KAGIWADA: Aloha, Jenn Kagiwada, Councilmember for District 2. Thank you for taking
my communication. I’m here to answer any questions but, basically, we’ve been hearing from
the Administration as we did—been debating some of the issues around two positions, in
particular—the Director of Public Works and the Director of Environmental Management that
these have been very hard positions for the Administration to fill. They have a hard time
attracting people and they’ve stated, time after time, that the salary that is not necessarily
competitive with the private sector—is one of the main reasons that they have a hard time.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
We’re debating whether we might reduce some of the qualifications for those positions but,
regardless of that, the issue of salary keeps coming back time and time again as a reason why the
Administration is not being able to attract those people.
So, just wanted to put this out here so that you guys could know about that—if you weren’t
already aware—and discuss it. I know that you did a really heavy lift last year and thank you for
that—or 2023, I guess, it was. Thank you all for that.
And just, yeah, thank you. If you have any questions, I’m happy to try to answer them.
MR. NELSON: Do you have a recommended salary for those positions? That’s an odd question
there but (inaudible).
MS. KAGIWADA: I really don’t. I don’t know. I could connect you with some private sector
engineers who might be qualified for that position, and you could talk to them about what the
general going rate is of the private sector. If you wanted me to do that, I’m happy to do that.
But—yeah, but the main issue that we keep hearing—we hear two things from the
Administration—that it’s the salary and the fact that it’s an appointed position, so there’s no
(inaudible) security. And there’s not really a lot we can do about that one right now. So, the
salary one is the one I’m hoping we can, at least, look at.
CHR. PAVAO: The difference with those positions versus other department heads is that they
require license—they have to be civil engineers, right—so that’s—
MS. KAGIWADA: Different requirements than a lot of others. Yeah. And it’s, just like, the
breadth of the job. It’s huge as far as number of personnel and—yeah, the liability that they
personally take on—on some of these projects that have to do with life and safety for our
community. So, I think—yeah, attracting the right people is key.
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Commissioner Kawaʻauhau. Can we request that to the—request the
private sector engineer and then also the information about the requirements and the job?
MS. KAGIWADA: Sure.
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Yeah.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. I mean, the—sure, I can get that for you. Cody probably can get it
for you right there, too—and actually Sommer has them, I’m sure, with the job requirements.
MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes. So, the duties or the requirements for the position are in the County
Charter.
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: And the staff and amount of personnel and all that stuff?
MS. TOKIHIRO: I could get current numbers of personnel for the departments.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Okay, thank you.
MS. KAGIWADA: That would be great. I’m happy to connect you with some private sector
folks that might be able to speak to this issue.
CHR. PAVAO: The one—on the idea, too, is perhaps if the Commission has the power to do
it—is to hire a consult or personnel consult firm to do a deeper dive, to do a really good report to
us as far as what comps. are between different jurisdictions, in government, with the private
sector—so that we can come up with a fully informed, salary appropriate and attractive—so that
we can recruit and retain qualified people in those positions.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, okay. Great. Yeah. So, some of the kinds of projects that they have
to oversee or have to do with, like, making sure some of our roads and bridges are engineered
safely as well as our wastewater systems, which are running in the hundreds of the millions of
dollars—the biggest projects that we’ve ever had for the County. So, overseeing some of
those—obviously, very critical for the County and we want to make sure we have the best people
in those positions to do that.
CHR. PAVAO: Are both of those positions vacant at this time?
MS. KAGIWADA: No, just the Department of Public Works is vacant at this time. My
understanding is—I’ve had some personal discussions with Wes and he is doing this job,
somewhat, as he thinks that it’s his job to step up for the County, but he was also ready to retire
before he took on this job.
So, I don’t know how long he’s willing to be in this position but, regardless, even if people stay
for four years, it’s going to be an issue again, next—
CHR. PAVAO: He’s already the second head of that department since the mayor came into
office, right?
MS. KAGIWADA: No, just the DPW was the one that stepped down.
CHR. PAVAO: Oh, okay.
MS. KAGIWADA: And we have an “Acting” person who doesn’t currently meet the current
qualifications in that position.
CHR. PAVAO: Mm—Public Works, yeah.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay. So, is there a possibility for us to contract somebody to do some
investigation for similarly comparable salaries are?
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. FRENZ: This is DCC Cody. I think I would—I’ll probably need to defer, at some point, to
Director Tokihiro for procurement and payment purposes ‘cause I’m not sure budgetary what’s
possible, to be frank.
Communication No. 25-01, From Deputy Corporation Counsel Dakota “Cody” Frenz,
Submitting For Information A Study Entitled, “MGT Classification And Compensation
Study, Draft Report, March 3, 2025” (County Of Maui, Hawaiʻi)
MS. FRENZ: However, I was able to get a very quick response from my counterpart from Maui,
who just did it, and they used MGT. And I asked a couple of questions to better understand
how—what their process looked like and how their commissioners felt that process went.
There was an approximate cost of just over—just under $43,000.00 for that evaluation and that
study. You have a copy of it. It’s about—I think it’s about 90 pages—70 pages, something like
that. It’s pretty significant. They looked at a bunch of different jurisdictions. Theirs went into
effect in 2024, so the information is potentially just slightly outdated, but it’s pretty expansive. I
mean, you could hypothetically use that one, if you wanted to, and see if there are updates in
light of that information.
Granted, this was evaluating what their county looks like. And their county is significantly
different than ours—probably not even just tax bracket purposes but volume-wise for the
departments themselves—but maybe a more smaller analysis could be conducted. Director
Tokihiro might have some ideas on how, if that’s an easy enough comparison to use what Maui
County had and compare it to our departments. So you can take a look at whether or not you
want something separate, whether you can work off of this and look at the differences between
the Maui departments and our departments to determine whether or not—as Councilmember
Kagiwada indicated—as one of my prior communications to you indicated—that this might be
an opportunity for you to not just do a blanket approach for the catch-up that you did 2023 for
2024—but to do that while also look at—looking at the demands of every position.
Because there are potential—and I think I heard it from you all in our last meeting, working on
the OSCER salary—that the OSCER position doesn’t carry the same demands as the Department
of Public Works, the Chief of Police, the Director of Finance, the Office of Corporation Counsel,
DEM—the specialty license positions, the larger department positions—like, Parks and
Recreation is a huge department as well.
So, there are a lot of different considerations—the Department of—the Director of Finance is an
integral role to the entire County of Hawai ʿ i. So, there are a lot of different factors versus
R&D—there’s just a lot of—the Auditor—there’s a lot of things to consider that maybe don’t
lend the same lens of a blanket approach. You can take that blanket approach but also consider
the specialties of each department—and maybe that just means the larger departments, the
greater demand departments, have a slightly bigger bump than the others. That’s really a “you”
question, but I think this is an opportunity to take that more specific brush approach and not just
a blanket.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
So, that’s just something to consider and that was a part of my communication to you. I think
that Councilmember Kagiwada has already, kind of, touched on the specific to DPW because I
think the conversation in that regard is the better approach to reduce the qualifications because
the County is struggling to find someone or to just pay those specialty, heavy demand
departments more than another position that doesn’t carry the same amount of responsibility.
So, with that in mind, you have a very substantive, approximately one-year-old evaluation. That
cost was just under 43,000—and I also got input that their commissioners appreciated the study
and the analysis to help them guide to make those decisions. And the rest, I mean, up to you
what—how you want to utilize that.
MR. NELSON: So, they do have, I looked at the—looking at the report—they do have salary
survey information for Hawai ʿ i and for other states and it’s based on March 2025 according to
the report. So, it is—yeah, I think this is about as timely as it can get from the salary survey
stuff.
th
And so, like for DPW, they’ve got the mid—the 50 percentile they got in here from 150 to
202,500—so it looks like the DPW is, like, 170 right now. So, a little bit in the mid-point. I
mean, we could maybe raise it a little bit to try to put it in there. But, I mean, I think—I don’t
know—I mean, I think the data’s about as—just looks about as good as we’re going to get, I
think, right.
‘Cause it has Hawai ʿ i’s salaries and state salaries, and so I think we could use that and maybe
look at these positions and, kind of—the need, I guess the demand, ‘cause—
CHR. PAVAO: To be able to recruit and retain people in those positions. So, that’s the question
for the Commission is that do you want to focus on those two positions or as our Deputy Corp.
Counsel is suggesting—should we hire a consultant to look at all of the positions.
I mean, we could do the across-the-board to retain parity based on what the collective bargaining
units did and then do a more thorough assessment of all the positions. It’s going to cost more
than $40,000.00, if we’re going to do all the positions.
MS. FRENZ: And just to clarify, Chair—this is DCC Cody—I think that utilizing what MGT
did for Maui County—
CHR. PAVAO: Mm.
MS. FRENZ: —would be an amazing resource that you could utilize without having to hire your
own consultant.
CHR. PAVAO: Mm.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. FRENZ: And I think, maybe, I don’t know if Director Tokihiro’s team would be able to
provide—I think it would be easy enough for our County to ask Maui County—can we get more
information about your departments? How many personnel are within them? How many
divisions are within them? That should be something that is readily accessible and then compare
that to what we have here. ‘Cause that’s really the biggest difference, unless Director Tokihiro
has some additional thoughts—but I think it’s possible without hiring. But that is a “you”
question. I’m not recommending one or the other. I’m just flushing out options for you.
MS. TOKIHIRO: I must say that when it comes to Classification and Pay, I mean, we looked at
equal pay for equal work, as we’re looking at all of our positions. We most closely align with
Maui County in the way that our operations are, so we’re much more similar to Maui County
than say, Kaua ʿ i or City and County of Honolulu. So, as far as alignment I think that—yeah,
we’re the most similar. So, just wanted to share that.
MS. NAMAHOE: Namahoe. I believe that we should start with the MGT report. I think it’s
smart, it’s timely, and I want to also remind us that when we were tearing through this in 2023,
the complexity of this County versus Maui—we have always had greater needs. We’ve had to
deal with great—a myriad natural disasters—and I, granted, that was before Lahaina. But even
after Lahaina, it still became evident that they needed our expertise because they never had to go
through the things that we are always seeming to be going through.
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And, yet, even when we did the corrective action for calendar year 2024 and then, again, July 1,
2024—we still didn’t meet parity with Maui because we didn’t have the tax bases that we had.
We’re more rural than they are.
So, if we’re going to use it, then I’m concerned that there may be some unintended consequences
that will, again, face this Commission to make sure that we meet Maui across-the-board—if not,
supersede it.
I have no problem with that. And I don’t mind going on record with that, however, we may get
pushback from the public.
CHR. PAVAO: I guess we’ve been through all the communications, right?
MR. NELSON: Sorry, I guess you’re here, kind of, worrying about increasing the salary for the
DP—or doing something with DPW and the Environmental Management. Are there other
positions that you’re aware of or anybody else is aware of where there’s, kind of, pushback or
they can’t hire somebody or whatever?
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah, I would go to the Administration on that. I don’t really know—these
are the ones that I know because they’re coming before the Council as issues from the
Administration, but it’s really the Administration that does the hiring and appointing.
So, I couldn’t tell you especially a more granular level going down the positions, but these two
positions have come to our attention as issues that are challenging to fill, so—
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
New Business (Item 6)
Review Of Existing “Pay Plan For Executives And Elected Officials” To Include Discussion
And Consideration Of Ideas For Adjustments To Future Salaries Of Executives And
Officials
MR. NELSON: So, when we did the last salary survey, we sent a communication out to the
mayor and the different departments asking them for their input. Okay. Do we need to do—I
guess the question for the group is do we need to do that again? Or should we do that again,
here? I mean, here we’ve got the Councilmember who’s saying, “Okay, I’m aware of these two
positions”—I do—we heard about the Finance Director. You’re right, that’s a key position—I’m
looking at the salary, it seems relatively low pay for what the duties are. I don’t know what
others there are there, out there—if there are any, right.
But, again, I think when we first started this conversation we talked of parity, okay—and so, if
we—I don’t think we should go across-the-board large increases, okay—I think it’s problematic,
given that the unions—just what they got, right—just equity for the County and trying to do the
right thing.
But I guess the question to the group is should we send out a communication to the mayor and to
the other departments? Is that something that we should we do?
CHR. PAVAO: A good suggestion—this is a different Administration, they might have a
different perspective—that might be a good communication at this point. I mean, we can still
deal with parity and go back and do a deeper dive on examining whether we need to adjust the
scale of pay on certain positions, like, DPW and Environmental Management or other positions.
Yeah, I think that getting input from the current Administration would be helpful.
MS. FRENZ: This is DCC Cody. You’re actually required to. The Charter says you “shall
consult”—so specific to the boards and commissions as well. So, that’s the Police Commission,
the Fire Commission—it’s a requirement under the Charter that you consult with the appointing
authorities.
So, I would recommend, like we did last time, this body consider a motion for the Chair to sign a
letter that would go out to the departments—to the appointing authorities. So, it’d be the Mayor,
the Fire Commission, and the Salary Commission—those are the only commissions that I can—
Merit Appeals Board—I think does Director of—does Director Tokihiro’s—
MS. YAMADA: (Inaudible.)
MS. FRENZ: I’m sorry—I said those, yeah, got those, yeah. And I think if I—if memory serves
correctly, in 2023, you also sent it to the department heads in the event that they wanted to
provide their own input and I think some of them didn’t necessarily feel comfortable advocating
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
for themselves, but I think—if memory serves correctly—you also afforded them notice of the
letter and an opportunity to be heard.
So, you could, at a bare minimum for purposes of today—you will need to request that input.
So, I would recommend you do it and then consider the fact that those boards and commissions
have their own standard meeting—hearing dates and times—so it may not be that you have a
response because they require their own committee and their board—a commission action to
respond in light. So, it may be more like two months before you have anything in writing from
those appointing authorities.
MS. NAMAHOE: Namahoe. I just want to—I want us to go on record to approach this
differently than we did in 2023. At the time we were dealing with salary parity in 2023, no one
had seen a raise since January 2018 or 2017. But these numbers stick out in my mind—if
somebody was hired at $100,000.00 a year, it was now worth 74,000 or 77,000.
And so, that was a different series of urgencies that we had to attend to, which is why we did the
unusual step of a January correction. It was an inflationary adjustment—it wasn’t a raise. And
then, it was a parity increase for July because that’s the plan year—yeah—that’s the County
fiscal year.
So, if we’re going to do this and how ever we do this, can we please look at this without the
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urgency of doing another January adjustment, but with the plan of effective July 1, 2026. We
comfortable with that?
I recognize that DEM and DPW, I’m sitting here and thinking about them—for the last 20 years I
can give you horror stories of both because I live in Panaʻewa and the rubbish dump is right
behind me, so DEM has always been in my gun sights—and DPW, I think about Azevedo, who
worked every single day, no days off, during the 2018 lava crisis. And, I mean, he was throwing
the metal grates over the roads so that people who lived in Kalapana could get in and get out—
the access opportunities for those people who lived in lower Kalapana—all depended on
Mr. Azevedo himself.
So, I want to make sure that however we do this, I need to be properly removed from the history
of that to make sure that we’re making methodical decisions. Thank you.
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CHR. PAVAO: The problem with July 1, 2026, is that the collective bargaining unit members
that have gotten an entire year of raise—and the appointed and elected officials wouldn’t for an
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entire year in July 1, 2025, and July 1, ‘26—so then, we’re kind of playing catchup again. So,
we might have to do, at least, a little more that first year, so the parity doesn’t, again, become
skewed. But, I mean, it’s possible—I mean, yeah, I don’t think we can—we’re going to reach a
conclusion today. But, yeah, the sooner we can get to and maintain parity, the better, I think—
otherwise, we end up back in the same situation of playing catchup.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. KAGIWADA: Chair, the only thing I wanted to add here on timing is that both the DEM
and the Public Works Director positions are being considered changing their qualifications that
would be put to the public as a Charter amendment in 2026.
And so, making some decision before that so the public has all the information about their
salaries and that kind of thing before the public votes, I think, would be important—but that
would be 2026—November 2026, I believe.
MS. NAMAHOE: November 2026.
MS. KAGIWADA: I believe so—yeah.
CHR. PAVAO: The election.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah. So, you have time, but I just wanted to just note that it would be
good for the public to know what the—if there are going to be additional increases that they
know that those are coming.
MS. NAMAHOE: Thank you.
MS. KAGIWADA: Yeah.
MR. NELSON: The challenge of changing salaries for any individual positions—it sounds like
if you go to—send that to communication, the back and forth. We’re probably not read—we
wouldn’t be ready to do anything for four months—probably, the earliest, right.
And so, I mean, I—and then you vote on it and then it wouldn’t happen till July probably for the
individual changes. But everybody else, all the union members are all getting these increases
now, whereas, all the other guys aren’t, right.
So, I don’t know if we want to do a two-step process. We could do this one now—okay, there’s
a salary adjustment for everybody, kind of, across-the-board—just as a parity that’s the reason
for it. We’re trying to match what the unions are, we’re trying to avoid any disparity, or I forget
what the term is—upside down pay for the union leaders. So, that’s kind of the rationale for that.
And at the same time, and then we go out we investigate to try to adjust these other positions
down the road for a July timeframe. Does that make sense?
CHR. PAVAO: I mean, this makes sense to me that we try to maintain parity with—keep up
with the collective bargaining raises across-the-board and then do a deeper dive on those two
positions and, perhaps, the other positions. Where we are as far as the pay scale or whether it’s
competitive to private sector and the other jurisdictions. Yeah, I think—
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. NAMAHOE: So, just some more historical context—jog all of our memories. At the year
of the 2024, we said because we gave them two raises in that year—January and July—that we
were going to wait until the end of collective bargaining before we would come back to the table.
And, here we are, now—I mean, it’s—we’re still not done, correct?
MS. TOKIHIRO: Correct.
MS. NAMAHOE: For the bargaining that was taking place or supposed to take place at the
beginning in 2025. So, it’s an entire annual process. Is that fair to say or is this an unusual year?
CHR. PAVAO: (Inaudible.)
MS. TOKIHIRO: No, in some instances it does take longer. If we reach a point of impasse and
we need to go to arbitration—the arbitration process is longer.
So, Police, Fire, and Water Safety Officers will be proceeding to arbitration.
MS. NAMAHOE: And this hasn’t been a combative year. When I say this year, I’m talking
January—calendar year 2025. This hasn’t been a combative year, nobody’s threatening to strike,
it hasn’t—we’re not underwater. Has it—I mean, (inaudible).
MS. TOKIHIRO: No, we’ve been working on the collective bargaining process for over a year.
So, it began in June of 2024, and we’ve actively been working with all of the units to try and
resolve and come to agreements before the expiration of the contract on June 30, 2025.
So, we didn’t get there with all the units, but it’s not unusual for SHOPO to go to arbitration—
Fire as well. I think they, kind of, track each other in that way—and then, still working to
resolve Water Safety Officers.
MS. NAMAHOE: So, I’m asking those questions to take us as a learning lesson for our
Commission in that we do not—as much as we wanted to start with BU13 or BU35—as much as
we try to achieve parity to their calendar, to their pay increases—it really doesn’t work for our
Commission to try to tether to them. They’re not—their timeline doesn’t meet our timeline.
If we don’t make those decisions, the non-bargaining staff do not get—they don’t see increases,
right—that’s how we’ve gotten into the situation that we did in 2024.
So, the biggest urgencies right now, are these two department heads that were not—that have
been longstanding problems—keeping them well-staffed, keeping them sticking around, and also
not having previous councils battle some of those departments. I mean, right now, all this
memory is going off in my head about former department heads.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
I’m ready to do whatever we need to do. I just want to make sure that we’re not—I mean, I
know that it’s part of this Commission to play catch up. As much as we want to be ahead of the
curve, we give ourselves a break at the end of the year waiting for collective bargaining.
It’s almost a lesson for us to think that maybe that’s not what we need to be doing. That doesn’t
serve us.
CHR. PAVAO: But if we want to have parity, then we have to know what the collective
bargaining results are. But BU13 and 35, to me, the best measures to compare to the elected and
appointed officials. And HGEA and UPW are the two largest collective bargaining units and
those have already cut/signed contracts—all the Bargaining Unit 13 staff have—and 35—have
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gotten raises effective July 1.
So, I’m guessing that today there are BU13 County employees making more than a Deputy
Director because they got a raise and the Deputy Director didn’t. So, again, in my mind, one of
our major goals should be to try to maintain parity so that we can recruit and retain appointed
officials.
MS. NAMAHOE: So, Chair, are you suggesting that we do make corrections for January 2026?
Is that the work that we should be looking at right now? That’s the urgency?
CHR. PAVAO: Well, otherwise, we’re going to have to play catch up. I mean, we wait till July
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1 of ‘26, I think, in my mind, we’re going to have to do more than the 3.5% because they would
have lost an entire year. So, yeah, and then we go back to playing catch up again.
I think the sooner we can try to get to parity, the better, then we don’t have to go back in
hindsight and, kind of, adjust for reverse parity of catch up.
MS. NAMAHOE: So, the area that we need is that we didn’t, as this Board—‘cause we’re still
the same people on this Board. The error that we made is that we didn’t keep up on it in 2024.
We let the collective bargaining get ahead of the—get the cart ahead of the horse, so to speak.
CHR. PAVAO: We have no idea what was going to be negotiated, at that point. So, I think we
had to have that information. We had to know what the collective bargaining units were going to
get so that we could have parity. So, we had to wait. (Inaudible) as Director Tokihiro told us,
the negotiations took a year. It takes some time for collective bargaining—it’s just the reality of
collective bargaining.
So, it’s almost impossible for us to—given the reality of the process that we have to go
through—public hearings and everything else—to have the same date, but as close as possible—
to, kind of, minimizes the amount of time we have to play catch up with.
MS. NAMAHOE: It’s frustrating ‘cause I want to templatize the work. So, Director Tokihiro,
we—how—when did BU13 have their data? When was that set?
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. TOKIHIRO: When was our tentative agreement reached?
MS. NAMAHOE: Yes.
MS. TOKIHIRO: I would have to go back. And all the dates are, kind of, running together in
my head but it was prior—yeah, I’ll have to go back and check. But it took—it was—it wasn’t
June of last year. I mean, we—it’s been an intensive process. And so, I want to say maybe April
or May.
MS. NAMAHOE: Of this year?
MS. TOKIHIRO: Yes.
MS. NAMAHOE: Okay, so we’re just a quarter out. All right.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, historically, the counties negotiate together with the State. So, the way
the State does collective bargaining usually is that they try to finish the bargaining before the end
of the Legislative Session, because the Legislature has to approve those raises in the budget. So,
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typically, by the end of May. And then, they quickly try to implement the raises July 1, which
did happen this year—sometimes it doesn’t happen.
MS. NAMAHOE: So, for us, it’s that we didn’t meet in June or July? I mean, it’s August—but
we needed to meet right afterwards.
CHR. PAVAO: The County negotiates with the State, but the County has its own process. The
State goes through the Legislature, they get it approved—but the County has its own process and
they have to get it approved, come to the Council, then the Council approves in their budget. So,
yeah, I mean, technically, we have to wait for the County because although they negotiate
together, the County could choose to not accept the decision.
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Commissioner Kawaʻauhau. So, Chair—and there are subordinates that
are going to be making more than their elected bosses (inaudible).
CHR. PAVAO: Director Tokihiro would know that, at this point.
MS. TOKIHIRO: There could be a potential for that. I can’t say exactly “yes” or “no” that that
is happening, but it could happen.
CHR. PAVAO: So, I don’t know if we want to do anything today. You want to—anybody want
to make a motion? Do you want to continue it to the next meeting? What’s the intention of the
body?
MR. NELSON: Yeah, I think we need to send out a communication to the mayor and the
department heads asking for input on the positions and I would recommend that we do an across-
the-board increase to reflect what we got here.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
So, I think there’s two separate motions that I would advocate that we move forward with.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, I think it’s the thing to do. I mean, we should definitely get—as we’re
obligated to get information from the Police Commission, Fire Commission, and from the
Mayor’s Office, of course, as to their position. But, at the same time—yeah, if we can move
forward with trying to maintain parity, I think, is important so we don’t have to get back into
playing catch up again, as much as possible.
Anybody want to make a motion or—
MS. FRENZ: If I could just clarify before we start.
CHR. PAVAO: Go ahead.
MS. FRENZ: If I understand correctly and I think it’ll be further clarified once someone
considers a motion, if you’re going to consider a motion—but it sounds like this body is
considering a two-part process because I want to make sure that we still comply with the Charter,
right, regarding the conferral that needs to occur.
So, it sounds like this body might be considering an initial motion because the CBA that this
body has traditionally tracked has already got their raises, right, to avoid the parity issue that
there would be a motion today for a very specific amount for everyone or not—I guess, we’ll see
what that motion actually is—based on tracking the CBA as we talked about earlier—for
purposes of my drafting Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law that I would present to you all for
adoption at the next hearing.
And we would be, potentially, looking at implementing that on a very strict schedule, like,
maybe January—considering what needs to occur in the interim, right? So, theoretically, if this
body were to adopt those proposed Findings and Conclusions at the September hearing, I would
be working with our amazing Secretary to get publication occurring. We would have to have a
very firm—because we—the Charter says—or it says “At least thirty days prior to the
approval”—we shall do the following. And shall do the following is publishing at least once in
at least two daily newspapers, with the detailed account of the proposal, including the increases
or decreases in both actual dollars and percentages—that was our excel spreadsheet that we had
as an exhibit last time.
We hold at least one public hearing in either East Hawai ʿ i or West Hawai ʿ i, provided that we also
provide the Zoom—that’s not a problem as well. So—and that we submit copies of that to the
County Clerk’s Office. So, keeping in mind that this needs to occur before that could take
effect—we then work backwards, right. So, that would be—sounds like one motion.
Then the separate motion would be that there would be—this body would be drafting a very
similar letter to what you did in 2023 to the appointing authorities and/or the Mayor’s Office
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
seeking collaboration and input on potential future raises that would be specific to just raises and
not parity—
MR. NELSON: (Inaudible.)
CHR. PAVAO: Not raises, but salary adjustments—
MS. FRENZ: Salary adjustments.
MR. NELSON: (Inaudible.)
CHR. PAVAO: So, they can be appropriate and competitive.
MS. FRENZ: But that would be something that you’d be doing separate and apart—that you’ll
be looking at taking that action—doing the same process again, but in 2026, more likely—
CHR. PAVAO: Yes.
MS. FRENZ: —by the time you received input from everyone, considered it, and decide what
that separate motion would look like.
CHR. PAVAO: (Inaudible.)
MS. FRENZ: Am I understanding correctly?
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, that would take more time. That would be a deeper dive for sure. The
one thing we can do, too, is all of the collective bargaining contracts are four-year contracts.
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You don’t have to necessarily have to vote on four years. We could just do January 1 for one
year—and we have time to wait for the input from the other—from the appointing authorities
before making a decision on the balance of the four-year contract or we could do one parity
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increase January 1 and another one July 1, so that we kind of stay on board and don’t fall
behind schedule.
MS. NAMAHOE: This is Namahoe. I want to write the—I want to make the motion. I am
struggling with the language that needs to be provided. I listened to you, Corp. Counsel Frenz,
and I—you started to lose me in the parceling of the two motions.
So, the first one is the urgency of starting the work right now, that we undertake—now that the
CBA has been resolved for calendar year or County year 2026—is that right? How full does this
motion need to be? I want to make sure we only got the guts in it. I don’t want to be too wordy
about it
CHR. PAVAO: If you look at the history, we’ve always tried to look at what bargaining unit—
HGEA Bargaining Unit 13 and 35 have done. They have a four-year contract. I mean, as I said,
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
we don’t necessarily have to agree to raise all four years, at this point. We can do one year or
two years and come back and revisit it.
MS. NAMAHOE: When we were doing salary—I’m sorry—but when we were doing salary
adjustments, we were just correcting to the year. We never discussed—that was—that’s one
thing we’ve never discussed is doing a big meta year-over-year following the BU13.
MR. NELSON: Well, I do recall we did discuss to try to put something in place proactively but
we, basically, held off until we knew what the bargaining units were going to get because we
didn’t want to go—we can’t go over, we didn’t want to go under—we tried to—we needed to get
that data point, which we have now.
CHR. PAVAO: Mm-hmm.
MR. NELSON: And so, I would argue—go for the four years. Just put it in. Here’s what it is.
And then, the other things get adjusted, as needed. If you can’t hire somebody, if the thing is
empty—you got to have it—well, then that’s a separate salary increase, but the process takes
forever, right?
CHR. PAVAO: Right. Deeper dive.
MR. NELSON: So, you can’t have the DPW guy vacant for a year, right? And—
MS. NAMAHOE: Make that motion.
MR. NELSON: Even the 4% increase, the 3.5% for the first—that helps. I mean, that’s not
ideal, but it’s better than nothing, right? So, I think—I do think it’s a two-track piece.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, at least it prevents potential for inversion where you have subordinates
making more than the Deputy Director.
MR. NELSON: Okay. So, I’ll make a motion to—that we go to, basically, we want to—that we
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recommend that we do a salary adjustment to all the appointed positions of 3.5% on January 1,
2026; 3.79%—if we want to do that in June of 2026?
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CHR. PAVAO: July 1.
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MR. NELSON: July 1 of 2026.
MS. FRENZ: Hold on. I’m so sorry. If you’re going to take that action, that’s going to expand
all those years—you’re going to have to comply with the Charter and you haven’t consulted with
the appointing authorities, yet.
MR. NELSON: So, we can’t propose anything for the—can we do that or—
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. FRENZ: Well, you’re required to consult. You haven’t consulted, yet.
MR. NELSON: Okay.
MS. NAMAHOE: So, the initial motion on the table is to consult with all of the County
leadership—the authorities necessary to consider the proposal of tracking for four years the CBA
for BU13?
MR. NELSON: Well, I think the consulting is just to ask them to give us input on their—what
they recommend for any salary adjustments—is that right, Cody?
MS. FRENZ: It actu—so it says, “The salary commission shall consult with those boards and
commissions which have appointing authority for department heads.”
So, when you read the entire subsection (d)—“The commission shall review and compensate all
county elected officials and appointed directors and deputy directors so that their total salaries
and benefits have a reasonable relationship to compensation in the public and private sectors.
The salary commission shall consult with those boards and commissions, which have appointing
authority for department heads.” So—
MR. NELSON: So, we got to send out the letter today and then see whatever the input is before
we can do any—make any kind of recommendations for any kind of salaries?
MS. FRENZ: I mean, I think that’s the cleanest. I mean, you could—it feels like then we have,
right now, if we don’t—it’s cart before the horse, right. And—I mean, while you could
hypothetically get input—if you don’t get any feedback—you put out the letters and you don’t
get feedback next month because they’ve missed their meeting date or time, right? Police
Commission, Salary Commission, Merit Appeals Board—when are they actually meeting?
And/or input from the mayor, would you then delay or are we going to start posting in the
newspaper ‘cause once we do that, we really haven’t—in good faith—done that consultation.
And I want to—as much as I’d love to help you all move forward, I want to make sure that what
you do doesn’t—can’t be set aside and void because we haven’t complied with the strict
expectations of the County Charter before that consultation phase.
So, you could make that motion, for example—“Pending feedback and consultation with the
appointing authorities”—and so, maybe then you’re taking that step further. And the letter that’s
going to be drafted would be in line with what you did two years ago but include—“this is what
the Commission is proposing”—give us your feedback, right.
So, maybe that’s still that consultation. You say, “”Here’s the current motion. We want your
feedback, we want to consult”—and we see what information you get going forward and,
hopefully, we can get some timely feedback from the appointing authorities.
So, maybe that would be—I just want to caution you that it’s subject to that further
consultation—maybe that’s the clarity that we need in the motion to ensure that we comply.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
CHR. PAVAO: This—make the same motion but just with that pending language—that way
we’re not—we’re complying with the Charter, I think that’s (inaudible). And then, we’re going
to have to wait and see when we get their response.
But, yeah, so you could make the same motion but would just be pending the consult from the
hiring—appointing and hiring bodies—authorities.
MR. NELSON: But in reality, we’re going back to the department heads looking for input on all
their different positions, so it’s more than just kind of across-the board.
CHR. PAVAO: It’d be separate issues because one is going to be more long-term, a deeper dive,
I think. We just want to get input from the appointing authorities about this specific parity raise.
MS. NAMAHOE: So, is the motion at-hand to consult with all of the necessary authorities,
including the boards and commissions, in order to consider future salary adjustment? Is that
sufficient for our needs? Putting a mo—that we make a motion to consult with all of the
necessary authorities, including the boards and commissions, in order to consider future salary
adjustments. Do we need to be more concise in that?
MS. FRENZ: If you’re going do just that now, then that’s sufficient—and that’s what you guys
did in the past.
I guess, I’m trying to find a way to tailor the two together with what it is that you want to do. So,
I think figuring out collectively what this body wants to do ‘cause I’ve heard a couple of
different things. I’ve heard a two-track, right—we start with some—a smaller bump because the
CBA’s already getting theirs. And then we look at more comprehensive, long-term in light of
the various responsibilities and duties of each department head—and that second step would
afford that further collaboration that complies with the Charter, but then I know that—and then
the motion that was starting to be made—and apologies for interrupting just to make sure that we
comply with the Charter—seemed to be doing just Step 2—and that’s where I want to make sure
that we include that consultation.
So, whichever is the—we can have the motion and see if it passes or fails and keep moving.
MR. NELSON: So, the request for consultation could say, “Hey, we’re—the Commission is
considering the following”—okay—“we’re asking you for your input on that and if you have any
other further suggestions for what we should do”—is that, would that serve the purpose? And
then, so then they can comment on what we’re asking for and then (inaudible) make other
adjustments if they think—“my position needs to get, whatever, 100% raise” or something,
whatever.
CHR. PAVAO: The communication to the appointing authorities can be two-fold—can be that
this body is considering maintaining parity based on the collective bargaining agreements, at the
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
same time, we’re doing a, sort of, deeper dive into seeing whether salaries are appropriate—and
asking for input on both issues, so we don’t have to get lumped into one issue.
One is going to take more time, obviously. And my concern is that if we go down the path with
just one issue that we’re going to fall back. It’s going to take a long time and we’re going to be,
again, playing catch up with parity.
MS. FRENZ: This is DCC Cody. So, I think what you—what this body needs to decide first
and foremost is—are you doing a one-step or a two-step process? Are you doing an initial one
because the CBA is already getting—or are we—are you just doing the one? Because that will,
then, I think kind of dictate what that consultation letter looks like. It could, arguably, also be
that this body is—has made a motion for x-increase effective this date pending your input and
publication in the newspaper and public hearing. But we are also—this body is also looking at
the following for the next x-years, right—which is the motion that Commissioner Nelson was
starting to make.
It could be two-fold—“please provide your input by so-and-so date”—and maybe they will
chime in with something that changes your opinion on the two different possible actions or you
just do one.
I need to know what you guys want to do, collectively, so I can help you ensure that we comply
with the Charter and have the requisite information I need to draft the Findings. So, I’m going to
do Findings for both.
MS. NAMAHOE: Sorry—Namahoe. I just want to make sure that we’re efficient. We know of
two urgencies right now, but we haven’t exhausted all of the departments either. There may be
more.
So, obviously, to (inaudible)—but what’s the most effective way to get there?
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, we got to get communication from the appointing authorities. So, I think
the two-fold path is the best way to do it. We’re addressing—trying to address the issue to stay
as close to parity as we can and, at the same time, trying to do a deeper dive to see where we are
with those two positions and all the positions to see we can get input from the appropriate
authorities.
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Commissioner Kawaʻauhau. I just wanted to add context that’s all. I’m
remembering now, we did have the plan to start doing the matching with the bargaining units
after we’ve corrected everything.
Because we started off talking about matching the bargaining units and then we said we have too
much of an issue here that we have to catch up first. And so, we said we’ll put that aside, once
we catch up, then we’re going to go ahead and start looking at the bargaining units again.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
So, actually, it’s not something that we’re just coming up with. We’re actually doing something
that we said we were going to do next. So, yeah, I think that’s important to know. We’re not
just jumping and reflecting on something. We actually had this plan.
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, that was the intent was to wait till we got the results
of the collective bargaining agreements, so that we would continue to maintain parity. So, is
there an amended motion or another motion?
MR. NELSON: Okay, take another shot at it here. Okay. So, I make a motion that we send a
communication out to the department heads—okay, advising them that we are—the Commission
is proposing to match the negotiated rates for the BU35 unit—okay—to the appointed positions
and we’re seeking their input and then also, at the same time, we’re seeking their input if they
have positions in critical needs or if they have other salary adjustment for their positions that
they think need to be adjusted. Is that—
CHR. PAVAO: Amend the motion is the department heads and the appointing authorities—like
the Police Commission and the Fire Commission.
MS. FRENZ: So, I think by “department heads” you mean “appointing authority” as well as,
maybe, a “cc” to the department heads, again?
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah.
MR. NELSON: If you fill in the right people.
MS. FRENZ: And will that—is that the motion or are you also going to include the very specific
increases for the years going forward?
MR. NELSON: So, I was going to match it—that we could put the increases in—3.5% in
January of 2026; 3.79 in July of 2020—July 1 of 2026; 4% July 1 of 2027; and 4% on July 1 of
2028.
CHR. PAVAO: Is there a second to the motion?
MR. DUDOIT: I’ll second the motion.
CHR. PAVAO: It’s been moved and second. Any further discussion?
MS. FRENZ: If, for your discussion, Commissioners, if I could get the requisite language that
you’re relying on for this purpose. I know that—I believe it’s salary adjustment—if you could
clarify exactly what language for your proposed Findings of Facts that I can draft accordingly,
please.
MS. NAMAHOE: We are in salary adjustment. This isn’t inflationary increases—or is this
when we use the word “raise”—“pay raises.”
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MR. NELSON: I like “adjustment” it’s more—
MS. NAMAHOE: Okay.
MR. NELSON: —‘cause it does cover inflation, I mean, basically, it does cover inflation, but it
is (inaudible).
CHR. PAVAO: It’s part of the negotiations that the collective bargaining units bring to the table
or when they go to arbitration is one of the evidence they use is “inflation”—usually, it’s a major
argument.
So, as far as the basis for Findings—I think, again, it would be about parity. Parity with the
collective bargaining units—looking at what the bargaining units got through the collective
bargaining process, and we wanted to remain equitable on—and have—maintain parity with the
appointed and elected officials, so that there isn’t this pay inversion where subordinates are
making more than their supervisors—deputy directors and directors—especially those that are in
excluded units like—yeah—the excluded units staff with the pay raises, could, potentially, be
making more than the deputy directors.
MS. FRENZ: Any other input from anyone else on the basis for the Findings?
MR. NELSON: So, I do think—base the Finding—it does fol—while we’re calling it a “salary
adjustment” it is—the salary is meant—the salary adjustment is meant to cover inflation. I
mean, increase cost of living, ‘cause that is a fact, which all of the other (inaudible) employees
have and then, these employees as well, will have the same issue. So, it is—it’s a salary
adjustment but it is also an inflationary adjustment as well.
MS. FRENZ: Is there a second to that motion?
CHR. PAVAO: Yeah, he second.
MS. FRENZ: Jules seconded.
MR. DUDOIT: Commissioner Dudoit—second.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay, any further discussion? If not, we’ll go ahead and vote. We’ll start down
here (inaudible). You can vote individually.
MR. DUDOIT: Commissioner Dudoit, yes.
MS. NAMAHOE: Namahoe—aye.
CHR. PAVAO: Chair Pavao—aye.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
MS. KAWAʻAUHAU: Kawaʻauhau—aye.
MR. NELSON: Nelson—yes.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay.
MS. FRENZ: And just to clarify, somebody could also make a motion that Chair Pavao has the
authority to sign the communication. I believe that that, the intent of this body, or the motion
would be by someone that Chair Pavao will utilize with Glynis and my assistance, the letter that
you did to the appointing authorities with a “cc” to department heads back in 2023, seeking input
in light of the motion made earlier this morning, and that Chair Pavao has the authority to sign
such and then send—and Glynis will send that out.
MR. NELSON: This is Commissioner Nelson. I’ll make a motion that Chairman Pavao can sign
that letter to the appointing authorities.
MS. NAMAHOE: Namahoe—seconds.
CHR. PAVAO: Any further discussion? If not, we’ll go ahead and vote. All those in favor
signify by saying aye.
The voice vote was as follows:
AYES: Commissioners Dudoit, Kawaʻauhau, Namahoe, Nelson, and Chair Pavao – 5.
OPPOSED: None.
ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Riordan - 1.
CHR. PAVAO: All ayes. The motion passes.
MS. FRENZ: So, between now and the next hearing, which I will not be present for, I’ll have
my colleague cover for me. I will prepare proposed Findings that support this motion. A copy
of that will be circulated to everyone via blind copy so you’ll have ample time to have read it and
come prepared for the September hearings to provide corrections, clarifications, expounding
whatever needs to be done.
The intent is we have done before—we’ve done the grind, right , in 2023—that at that next
hearing, if you want to make adjustments, we would do that via a motion, if you have to go line-
by-line like we did last time to adjust it accordingly immediately at the next hearing—so you can
make a motion to approve any changes, so that we can then work on the publication and
ensuring—and that’s—because we have a small representation at this time—and I’m working
with the Mayor’s EA, Micah Alameda, to ensure filling the—our vacancies because I do want to
ensure that full representation occurs, right.
I think it’s important that everyone’s going to need to be present at all of our future upcoming
hearings for quorum purposes, right. We were intending to meet in July, but we lost quorum.
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Salary Commission August 28, 2025
So, right now we have six of nine positions filled, two of those positions will term out in
December of this year—we have a 90-day holdover—that’s possible, so theoretically, the very
people here, we should—we could get through the end of March to take any final action, if need
be—before we have the replacement of members.
So, historical knowledge is with us—is with this body now. And so, making sure that we can
take action accordingly is important. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work, right. We’ll re-educate
and get our new members caught up, even those that join us throughout this process—that’s a
part of the job.
So, I only share this and to emphasize how critically important it is that everyone knows our
upcoming dates, everyone can commit to being here. We will include Zoom on our upcoming
dates in the event somebody is ill or has a medical issue or a ride issue—you can jump on Zoom,
so we can still hit our quorum as required. So, that’s just my gentle reminders that we can keep
moving forward accordingly to effectuate what you want to do. Yeah.
th
CHR. PAVAO: So, September 24, at 10 a.m. is the next meeting, yeah?
th
MS. FRENZ: Yes, that’s correct. Everybody available—September 24, 10 a.m.? Okay.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay, no “Unfinished Business”—okay, somebody make a motion to move to
close file on Communications 25-01, 25-02, and 25-03.
MS. NAMAHOE: I make that motion.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay. Is there a second?
MR. DUDOIT: Second.
CHR. PAVAO: Okay. All—any further discussion? If not, all those in favor signify by saying
aye.
The voice vote was as follows:
AYES: Commissioners Dudoit, Kawaʻauhau, Namahoe, Nelson, and Chair Pavao – 5.
OPPOSED: None.
ABSENT & EXCUSED: Commissioner Riordan - 1.
CHR. PAVAO: Thank you. Ayes have it—motion carried.
And, “New Business”—I think we’ve already discussed it, have we?
MS. FRENZ: And just to clarify—DCC Frenz—I think our—this body’s communication and
the motion was intended to fall under “New Business”—I just think we didn’t call that prior to
the conversation. But the motion and discussion is under “New Business.”
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Salary Commission August 28,2025
Unfmished Business (Item 7)
CHR. PAVAO: Okay. And then,we don't have any"Unfinished Business."
Announcements (Item 8)
CHR. PAVAO: No "Announcements"—
Schedule Next Meeting Date (Item 9)
CHR. PAVAO: And the next meeting is September 24th, at 10 a.m. Anything else?
MS. FRENZ: We have anything else from anyone?
Adjournment(Item 10)
CHR. PAVAO: Anything else? Otherwise,we're adjourned. Okay,meeting adjourned. Thank
you very much. Everybody have a good day. (The meeting adjourned at 11:24 p.m.)
Respectfully submitted,
Glynis Yamad , Secretary-Reporter
APPROVED:
-1
Stev;i Pavao, Chair
Sal. Commission
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