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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-10-22 Cost of Government Commission Minutes COST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION c/o Office of the Corporation Counsel, 101 Aupuni Street, Suite 325, Hilo, Hawai‘i 96720 MINUTES – AS AMENDED Friday, October 22, 2010 – 10:00 a.m. Department of Liquor Control Conference Room 101 Aupuni Street, Suite 230 Hilo, Hawai‘i 96720 CALL TO ORDER MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, everyone’s here. I would like to call the meeting to order (I0:05). Present:Also present: Kenneth Armour Julie Mecklenburg Glen Matsuda Emarie Carvalho Marilyn NicholsonSandy Arriola Eileen O’Hara Patricia Provalenko Deanne Sako Gloria Wong Jan Pakele William Takaba, ex-officio Guests: Nancy Crawford Gilbert Benevides Jodie Yanagihara Craig Masuda STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC MS. NICHOLSON: I’d like to start of with Statements from the public, but you are probably not public, you are probably our speakers so, is there any public present who would like to make any statements? APPROVAL OF MINUTES (October 8, 2010) MS. NICHOLSON: If not, I would like to move to Approval of the minutes for October 8, 2010. MOTION:MS. WONG: So moved. Hawai‘i County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employer MS. PROVALENKO: Second. MS. NICHOLSON: Any discussion? MS. WONG: Yes. MS. O’HARA: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: Gloria, you first. MS. WONG: She can go first as I look up my page. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, Eileen. MS. O’HARA: It is a reference to, page 24 – something I said, getting out the RPS and IPS. That needs to be corrected to RFP’S and IFB’S. Invitation for Bids and Request for Proposals. MS. NICHOLSON: RFPs and IFBs. Okay, anything else that you have? MR. MATSUDA: I’ll make a correction. On page 6, a typo on the second line where it says from the jest of it. Gist instead of jest. That’s all. MS. NICHOLSON: Any other corrections? MS. WONG: On page 26 and 27, under Ms. Wong, so you can make sure or stay for questions and answers. Oh no, I don’t know why I marked that one. Page 27, at the bottom, it says, and the other thing is if they that they know someone. I’m not sure if that was, it seems like – if they know someone. MS. NICHOLSON: Where are you on page 27? Okay, you are looking at Kathy Garson’s comment? MS. WONG: Yes. I think they that is typed twice. MS. NICHOLSON: So we’re deleting the first they that, so if they know someone. Are there any other corrections to the minutes? Do I have a motion to accept the minutes as amended. Well first I think we have to accept the minutes. MS. MECKLENBURG: You only accept the minutes as amended. MS. NICHOLSON: So we already have a motion and a second on the floor to accept the minutes. And then we’ll do a motion to accept those amended? MS. MECKLENBURG: Move to amend first. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. MOTION:MS. WONG: I move to amend. 2 MS. O’HARA: Second. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Any other discussion on amendments? We have a call for a vote. All in favor? ACTION ON MOTION: All: Aye. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? None MS. MECKLENBURG: Now go back to the motion. MS. NICHOLSON: Now we move to accept the original motion which we have on the table already to accept the minutes. Any other discussion? Okay I call for a vote. All those in favor? ACTION ON MOTION: All: Aye. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? None. DISCUSSION, AND QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION WITH FINANCE, PURCHASING DIVISION, PUBLIC WORKS AND CORPORATION COUNSEL REGARDING CURRENT PROCESSING OF CONTRACTS AND CONTRACT ADMINISTRATION MS. NICHOLSON: Okay we have moved through the minutes and now we’re actually, if you all agree, we will skip agenda item 4, Correspondence so we can go right into the discussion section so that we don’t waste these folks time. And because I missed the last meeting, I’m not sure what it is we’re doing. We’ve got Discussion and Question and Answer Session With Finance, Purchasing Division, Public Works and Corporation Counsel Regarding Current Processing of Contracts and Contract Administration. So, what was the intent for how we want to handle this? Do we want everyone at the table at once? Or do we want them to each give an individual presentation? MS. MECKLENBURG: I think the intent was to allow them to give a presentation and then you’ll have the opportunity for discussion and question and answer. MS. WONG: I think it was a 10-15 minute presentation and then question and answers. MS. MECKLENBURG: Not each individual was my understanding. One presentation. MS. CRAWFORD: Our understanding was we were going to come together and do a presentation. MS. NICHOLSON: Together or individual? MS. CRAWFORD: Together. We are a team. 3 MS. NICHOLSON: So if you could all kind of squeeze into the table at once. So if you would that and then introduce yourselves. MS. CRAWFORD: First, good morning and thank you for having us here. I’m Nancy Crawford. I’m the Director of Finance. On my left is Gilbert Benevides. He is our Purchasing Agent, and Purchasing falls under the Finance Department. On my right is Jodie Yanagihara from Public Works, and she’s in their contract section, managing the construction type contracts. They have other contracts but what differentiates her from our other goods and services would be construction contracts. And Craig Masuda from Corporation Counsel, and he is Finance Department’s attorney and therefore specializes among other things, procurement. MS. NICHOLSON: Thank you for coming. MS. PROVALENKO: Thank you. MS. CRAWFORD: We are pleased to be here, and I just want to tell you I really appreciate the difficult job that you all have volunteered to do and take on and trying to help find some cost reductions. So we appreciate this opportunity to talk a little about procurement and sort of based on our understanding of what you we thought you wanted to hear. And I hope this will cover our intentions to do a brief like 15 minutes covering from legal to specific aspects of procurement and some of our processes, and then just be available for questions. So, to start that off, we start with what the legal basis is. Craig is going to do the first section. MR. MASUDA: Good morning. What I’ll be going through is this handout you have in front of you, but we’ll be doing that a little bit later on. Let’s start of with what procurement is and what procurement is not. This is the procurement code, the different sections of the procurement code. What procurement code is, is the purchase or obtaining of goods and services. What it does not include though is purchases of land, any kind of land acquisition, any kind of land code, be it lease of foul feed purchase or a license or any type of land acquisitions. That’s not covered by the procurement code. The procurement code is 103D of Hawai‘i Revised Statutes. It’s a state law. The primary chapters like I said is 103D, there’s also 103F which has to do with procurement of health services. That is usually only done by Office of Aging, so I’m not going to go into that. The main purchasing activity for the county is always under 103D. Under 103D, there’s also a provision where they have a state procurement policy board. That’s the creating, or the enabling statute for that organization. That organization is charged with getting statutory law of 103D and creating Hawai‘i Administrative Rules. So just like when we have county laws then we have departmental rules, you have the state law and then you have the Hawai‘i Administrative Rules. The Hawai‘i Administrative Rules gives detail of what the state law is. The state law will give you general policies and Hawai‘i Administrative Rules will tell you exactly how to accomplish those policies and what to do. That being said then, when you look at the progression, and I’m sure Kathy already went through it with you folks, supremacy of laws. The county has no authority to change the procurement code or the Hawai‘i Administrative Rules. We have to follow their rules. Also within that, Hawai‘i Administrative Rules is under Title 3. So if you folks want to look it up, look up Title 3, and there’s a whole bunch of different sections in there.The procurement code 4 and Hawai‘i Administrative Rules covers which really is just going to be straight purchase. You want a truck, this is how you go to procure a truck. Within that, the legislators through their infinite wisdom can also use the purchasing power just like other people use the taxing power of the government to accomplish social goals or social engineering. So, you’re going to see their preferences for small businesses. Something’s say you have to give preferences for Hawai‘i built products. Something say, for example, you have to show that people who the government is giving its funds to, also are paying their taxes. They’re paying their insurance. They’re paying their work comp. payments. These are all compliance issues, are the responsibility section of the code that the county has to follow because the county is an entity of the state. Therefore a lot of times when you do something, it’s not necessarily purchasing the cheapest thing from the cheapest vendor, cause that’s where they put in the social engineering part is where they can have the power of their purchasing dollars saying all you vendors, we want you to do X. We want you to do Y. And the way we make you comply and do that is through our purchasing power much like power the government does with its taxing power. Another thing it’s important to remember is that knowing violations of the procurement code is a misdemeanor. It’s a criminal offense. And of course if somebody knowingly violates the law, they are outside of the scope of authority and my office and the county does not represent them because that would be a law violation onto that person who did that illegal thing. If you go to the handout like I said, this is the whole thing. The main types of procurement is Competitive Sealed Bids. When you see Competitive Sealed Bids, this is under 103D-302 Hawai‘i Revised Statutes. This is the one everybody calls shorthand as IFBs – Invitation For Bids. Gilbert will go into that more in detail on the process of those. The next would be Competitive Sealed Proposals under 103D-303. This is what everybody refers to as RFPs or Request for Proposals. So, just like you folks had the amended today for your record, IFBs are bids, or people just talk about it as bids. And RFPs or request for proposals, people just say it’s proposals. The other main source of procurement is Professional Services. So, Professional Services is like an animal unto itself where you’re not sending out for bids but people are sending you. Annually we send out request for professional services and what people do in that sense is they send you a resume. And from there you pick whatever profession you want to hire for that service. Of course you can’t just pick anybody, but there is a whole government qualifications handbook that’s put out by the federal government and it has a list of 200 to 300 kind of specialties where you can hire off of as in a professional service. And of course there is Small Purchases too, which we’ll get into a little later. From here you go to your second page. This will tell you really briefly the processes there to the different kind of bid programs. And as the Finance Director said, Purchasing handles almost everything except for construction bids and construction RFP. Those are handled by Jodie. MS. YANAGIHARA: Good morning. I’ll be giving you a brief overview of the DPW construction bidding process. These are our construction contracts of over $25,000 and above. As Craig mentioned earlier, all construction parties are procured through the Hawai‘i Revised Statutes and Hawai‘i Administrative Rules and the General Requirements of the Covenants. So the steps are first we, All Notice to Bids for Projects and, also addendums or changes to the plans and specs are posted on the State and County of Hawai‘i procurement notices website. And the notification of posting is sent to all contractors by email. Then the sealed bids are opened publicly and awarded to the lowest qualified bidder. The contract is in, we shoot it to the 5 contractor, and to streamline the work process we’re issuing the contract documents electronically. And this is to cut back the delivery time and save postage. Then the contractor executes the contract and is required to submit the required performance bonds which is 100% of the contract amount. And that’s to protect the county. Labor and material payment bonds is 100% also, and that is to insure the payment for suppliers and subcontractors. Other required forms are insurance certificates, tax clearance and other forms. And then the contract is then routed through the county execution process and ultimately approved by the Mayor. And Gilbert will cover the contract routing process in a little bit. But the next step is Notice to Proceed. It is then issued to the contractor and this becomes the start of the project. So after the project is started, the contractor then submits invoices and certified payrolls throughout the duration of the project, until the project completion. So that’s the kind of in a nutshell of what construction bidding process is. MR. BENEVIDES: Well goods and services basically follow the same process except for goods and services, the bonding is not required. It’s optional depending on what it is you’re buying, whether or not you determine a bond is required to protect the county at that stage. If you look at this handout, this is the single page contract routing form. I’ll briefly touch on once the bidding process basically as Jodie went through, is done and you have a contract. What happens then? First, after the bid award is made, the contract is put together as you can see Route to: The contractor will get the package first. The contractor will then sign and notarize it, get all the Act 52 documentation which includes tax clearances, ELIR compliances and DCCA compliances along with bonding if it’s construction, along with insurance if it’s construction or services, and they then send that back to us for review. Then after that, when it comes back, it goes to the department heads for review. The department head will review it, and after the department head reviews it, it goes to Human Resources only if the services that are being performed customarily and historically get performed by civil service. But if we’re going outside of the civil service for a personal or professional contract because we don’t have the wherewithal with them to do it at that time. If it’s not a service, it would skip Human Resources. After that it comes to the Purchasing Agent. I review it to make sure that everything is there. All the documents required for it to be a proper procurement and the steps leading up to that award, have been accomplished. When I’m done with it, it goes to the controller upstairs and the Finance Director for review and certification of the funding for that project or procurement. After that step it goes to Corporation Counsel for review as to form and legality. Again a check to make sure that everything that needed to be done relative to putting together a legal contract has been completed. And from there, once that is done, Corporation Counsel signs of as to form and legality directly on the contract itself, and it goes the mayor’s office for final review and signature. When the mayor is finished with it, it gets returned to the Purchasing Division and we do a Notice To Proceed and send full copies of the executed contract to the vendor so they can proceed with either sending the goods or performing the service. We also gave you the basic procurement handout. And that basically gives you a breakdown, a very quick breakdown of what the process includes step by step for Small Purchases, and for Competitive Sealed Bid which is the IFB, and the Competitive Sealed Proposal which are the RFPs, and then Professional Services. And it gives you a breakdown of what the steps basically are to get from start to finish on each of those procurement methods. 6 MS. CRAWFORD: We are happy to spend as much time as you want on any of this, but we didn’t want to take up too long a time just with presentation, and so we tried to move through some pretty complex material very quickly. One last thing, I just wanted to mention is some of the things that we’ve already implemented to try and improve efficiency or save on costs within say the last couple of years, and that is like the construction bids and plans. So that’s like large plan documents and everything is now placed on cd’s and goes to the contractors in that form. So that replaced a lot of paper and the need even for deposits. So we’ve simplified that process. Under Procurement for Goods and Services, we’ve taken about 98% of the documents that used to be mailed out are now all sent electronically through email. Included in that is the Small Purchase quotes which are basically 100% emailed out and the responses come back in, it would an email or fax. And it’s just the small purchase under $25,000 that we’re still getting written quotations and it’s all being emailed out. All of the Notices for Goods and Services or construction contracts are posted on the state’s procurement notice site as opposed to newspaper advertising which we used to have. Long ago it was always in the Sunday paper, and then to cut costs we went to non-Sundays and now with the exception of some grant funded, Housing. And if they fall under certain federal regulations, they may still require posting in newspapers of general circulation. But the majority of what the county does, does not require that and so it’s done strictly on the website. That’s saving a lot of advertising costs. Beyond that I guess I would just say that we, I mean one thing, I’ll just mention it’s not a direct cost cutting effort, but we put effort in up front in the form of what Gilbert and Craig have talked about and the review of contracts through the process and requirements for documentation that ultimately we feel have resulted in this county in having very few procurement protests which are costly in time and energy for everyone. It can hold up a project or purchase of something, and we feel that investment in carefully getting information out to everybody, being very clear about what we need and want, and documenting what we’ve done helps protect the county in that way from those additional costs. And finally there are some other electronic procurement type activities that are under consideration but we’ve not taken much steps. So, with that I thank you and if there’s anything to add or we skipped over, we would welcome questions. MS. NICHOLSON: I’m sure we have some questions from some of our commission members, so anyone want to jump in and go first? MS. WONG: I’d just like a clarification of one of the terms that you used. I’m not clear of what that means. Procurement protest? Do you get protest for procurements? MR. MASUDA: What happens is for every procurement that’s sent out, any bidder, who is any person who submitted a bid and didn’t get selected, can file a protest. What the protest says is the way the specs came out wasn’t fair. It was geared too much towards my competitor, not toward me. Or the way you did the evaluation and you picked somebody else over me was somehow not fair or whatever. As soon as they file a protest, what’s built into the law is what’s called an automatic stay. So once he filed a protest, once Nancy receives, as a chief procurement officer, once she receives the protest, everything stops until the issue is resolved, or until there is a determination made that in the best interest of the government that the purchasing go through. But even that can, even in itself whether you try to do the override so to speak of the 7 automatic stay, that within itself can generate another protest. And then it would be frozen again. Some protests have resulted in lack of services being held up because you can protest, you go to the hearing’s officer, decision making level in Honolulu. Then it goes to Circuit Court, then it goes to Supreme Court. So, a protest, a simple protest of a purchase like tires, $15 tire, or whatever, can be held up and end up costing several thousand dollars in litigation fees. Not really though. Attorney’s get paid the same so it doesn’t cost the county that much but, as far as time wise, it costs a lot. It costs a lot for discovery and for flying to Honolulu and such. But what the main thing it does is it holds up any procurement of the item or of the service. So, in some cases like we had one for cleaning storm drains, because that thing was held up, county storm drains were not cleaned for about a year and a half. And of course, as things build up, it doesn’t stop the debris from building up so the next year your costs are even higher. So, that’s a procurement protest, but it can go all the way up to Supreme Court. And it’s an automatic stay. That’s the hard part about it. It really doesn’t concern you folks so much but because there is so much protest, a lot of them are really unfounded and when times get hard, people start using it as a tactic. Small guys can’t last that long, but big guys can fight out, survive on their research for a long time. Now what they built into the law as of a year and a half ago was that if somebody wants to file a protest, they have to put a bond. So, if they lose, then they lose their bond. So they can’t just willy-nilly file a protest just to try to stump the other competitor. Hope that answered your question. MS. WONG: Yes, a lot. Thank you. MS. O’HARA: Just following up on that, is there a dollar amount for that bonding requirement? MR. MASUDA: Yes. It’s based upon the value of the protest itself. The value of the contract. MS. O’HARA: So in the last five years, how many protests have we had to deal with? MS. CRAWFORD: I’m not so sure about construction because actually authority for handling procurement protests on construction has been delegated to the director of Public Works. MR. MASUDA: No, but I get them. MS. CRAWFORD: Oh you do? MR. MASUDA: We’ve had about five or six, but we’ve knocked them out before the hearing. And that’s what we always try to do, is do an early knock out before it starts accumulating a lot of costs. That’s what our office does too. Part of their focus is, what’s the catch phrase he uses? Preventive lawyering. So now we do classes and stuff like that. Compared to other jurisdictions and the state, we have significantly less then they do. Significantly. Why? I don’t know. MS. CRAWFORD: Cause we have good tight specifications. 8 MS. O’HARA: I have a question for Jodie. How is it that DPW came to be the oversight for construction contracts? And do you do construction contracts for other departments? MS. YANAGIHARA: It’s delegated actually from Finance, the chief procurement officer and it’s delegated to the Director of Public Works for all construction MS. O’HARA: Including construction done by other departments? MS. YANAGIHARA: Yes. So we handle construction contracts for Department of Environmental Management, Parks and Recreation, Housing and all of our Public Works. MS. CRAWFORD: One thing I would say is that I have, because as Director of Finance, and not that it started with me because the authority to handle the construction contracts has been delegated to the Public Works Director, or chief engineer, for a long time. But it’s because it’s kind of a specialized area. The other thing is that quite recently we, I included in my delegation authorization to the Director of Public Works the authority to further delegate to the Director of Environmental Management so they can do their own contracts. That was like I said very recently, that delegation. MS. NICHOLSON: So, you’ll have someone like Jodie in the Department of Environmental Management? MS. CRAWFORD: They do have a contract clerk. MS. YANAGIHARA: They have a contract clerk. MS. NICHOLSON: This is a question that will sort of demonstrate my ignorance of how this all works. So, if I am a department head and I want to buy 25 cases of copy paper, whatever. What do I do? Who do I talk through how a department determines what their needs are through their budgeting process. Then their budget is approved so okay, we have the money, now what happens? How do I acquire or how do I acquire a vehicle? Whatever it is I need to acquire for my department. What would happen? MR. BENEVIDES: Paper we carry downstairs in the Storeroom, so that wouldn’t be one that you’d put in a request for. (Just as an aside.) But on a vehicle for instance, we have a time schedule, three times per year, which all the departments are aware of where you can send in your requisitions for vehicles, and like time buying, desks, computers, whatever it is. And then in our office we take that requisition. We prioritize it with everything else that we have to do. We put together the like type items so we’re not putting out one bid for one computer in other words. By that due date, all the vehicles come in. We put out one passenger car vehicle bid. We put out a heavy equipment bid. And then we go through the process as indicated in this basic procurement process which is, if the intended or cumulative amount is over $25,000 then we would do an IFB, which is Invitation for Bid. And we would send it out to people who have participated in the past. Anybody who requests it. And of course once we post it we get a lot of request for it as well. So, to answer your question, the requisition comes in, we prioritize then we put out the bids based on a prioritized time schedule. 9 MS. NICHOLSON: And you do that three times a year, or you accept the request three times a year? MR. BENEVIDES: We accept bulk of requests three times a year specifically. But all through the course of the year, we still handle the every day purchases that come in as well. MS. NICHOLSON: And so how much control would a department have over the specifications of the kind of printer they want? How do you try to sort of package those kinds of requests to get the biggest bang for your buck versus saying I want an HP printer and I want this kind and I want that kind, and I want those features. How do you MR. BENEVIDES: Oh we deal with that all the time. But over the years we have, because you know this is not something, like printers for instance, every year we buy printers. So over the course of the last 29 years that I’ve been there, we put together specs on printers and such and multi function machines that meet a general standard that is not restricted in the marketplace so that everybody can bid on it, while still giving our people what they need to perform the functions. For a printer for instance, I think we have about nine different types of printers, because of the speed the output and so on and so forth. So the using agency knowing what is available in the market place and looking at prior bids, we’ll start their request out with that specific specification and reference that specification. So when we get it we know what we’re looking at to begin with. Now we tell them that if you need any changes to this, just mark it up in red, tell us where the changes are. And then we review it at that point to make sure that those requests are again not restricted to competition, and we put out the bids accordingly after that. MS. NICHOLSON: And then just one more question on that. So, if you see that a department is requesting six new printers or let’s don’t do printers. Let’s do a copy machine. Six like individual copy machines. Do you look at that and go, well why can’t they get one really multi function copy machine and all network to it? How do those kinds of decisions get made? Is that within the department? MR. BENEVIDES: That decision is made by the department based on their budget. And once it comes to us it’s already been decided that that’s what they want. Our function is then to go procure it under the procurement law.Now if we see something is way out of bounds, somebody putting in a vehicle, for a Cadillac for instance or something. Of course we’re going to question something like that. If they’re buying more than usual in quantity, we would call and ask. But it’s not really, we don’t really police that. When it comes to us, the requisition basically says that the department head is authorizing that procurement based on their budget for their department. We proceed in buying it under the procurement law unless something looks, unless there’s a red flag if something looks way out of line. We don’t police per se. MS. CRAWFORD: If I can just add in. I would say the control you’re talking about really happens more in the budgeting process. During our fairly extensive budget hearings that we go through, not the council hearings, but in advance of that when we’re working with the departments. They have for one thing, for equipment type purchases, 10 we have another form that they have to fill out justifying that. Telling us whether it’s a replacement or it’s new, who is going to use it and the justification. And depending on the dollar amount either the budget administrator can approve it or if it’s a high dollar amount, it would go to the mayor’s office. And so for instance if they are asking for multiple copiers or printers or something like that, we will be talking with them absolutely about the possibility of sharing within their department or even some cases with another department if it makes sense. The only thing is if you lose such efficiency through sharing wouldn’t pay for it than we would go forward with that. MR. MATSUDA: In regards to the printers, and I’m just curious to see, because printers are very well used daily, the question I have has to do with, apparently the department heads will decide whether they can have or someone can request for a new printer according to what I’m hearing, according to the budget. But would the individual himself say okay, well, I need a new printer and say, maybe tomorrow or two years, how long a frame, taking into consideration that the printer is not broken, is there a time period that a person, say okay, well we just got you a printer last year or 2008. You still have to use that printer. Or can one just say, okay, I want a new printer now because the old printer, I don’t like that one. I just want this one here. There has to be some sort of control or at least some kind of criteria that you use to determine okay, yes, let’s allow or yes, it’s affordable, or it’s usable like same thing as combine the printers as was mentioned here. What is your insight on that? Because I’m familiar whereby we’ve requested printers before. This is at a different level. And we were not able to get that. And I just want to know what is your criteria’s on something like that. Because everybody wants a new printer. Everybody wants to pass the printers and all that kind of stuff. Is there any rule of thumb that you use? MS. CRAWFORD: The Finance’s role would be in the budget process, when this department is being required to identify what they expect to be purchasing in the future year. And so, they have to have some justification there or we’re probably going to question it. The other thing is that there are very limited budgeting dollars and they’re very careful. That department head is going to be very careful about how they decide they’re going to spend that. What is their highest priority equipment? Sometimes they’ve been required to prioritize their equipment because we’re going to be cutting, and we’ll cut from the bottom. What we probably don’t do, it is not my role as the Finance Director to override the director of Public Works and say that what he has said is his highest priority piece of equipment. I don’t take on the responsibility unless it’s something very bizarre, I would not question him on that. That’s his budgetary decision. Once the budget is in place and you’re in the real life situation of day to day, and a clerical person would like a new printer, the controls there are, that will have to be approved up the line. So they don’t have the freedom to just submit a requisition and go straight over to Purchasing. MR. MATSUDA: Okay, everything rests with the department head? MS. CRAWFORD: Yes. MR. TAKABA: You may want to touch on zero discovery concept. 11 MS. CRAWFORD: Yes. This year, well our budgeting for a number of years has been status quo and for a while it was status quo and then plus a little because maybe we thought we had enough. And then it’s been status quo and then we start cutting. This year we are doing a zero base budgeting, which means departments are not starting with whatever they had in the current year budget and saying keep it the same. Or they line by line it. It’s a lot more work for everybody. It will be a lot more work for our budget because we’re centralized. Everything comes into our very small budget division. But every line needs to have justification. And so, if you’re talking about, most of us have very little equipment purchases anyway. But say contract services or something like that, every service would be there and the justification for it so that when we sit with that department and have that discussion, it’s forcing everyone to take a really close look at what they need, starting from scratch. They are in that process right now. The departments are working hard at developing those budgets to get them in by the deadline at the end of this month. MR. MATSUDA: Another question. On the contract services, I think Gilbert mentioned something about going through various approval process which is one of tax office, one of DLIR, and so forth. Is it up to the contractor to follow through and make sure that they have the appropriate approval or is there someone within your department that would follow up to make sure that they have MR. BENEVIDES: The responsibility is on the contractor. MR. MATSUDA: It is. MR. BENEVIDES: We tell them in the cover letter that goes along with the contract package exactly what it is that they have to provide. But the responsibility for then obtaining those certificates and compliances lies with the contractor. MR. MATSUDA: Is there a limit or a period of time? MR. BENEVIDES: We say up to 10 days, but in the real world 10 days doesn’t usually work out. So we just give them a reasonable amount of time based on the circumstance. Did we have other bidders that we can go rely on as a second lowest bidder? So, I think the average I would say ends up being about three to four weeks. From the time we send it out they usually get it back to us is a fully executed package for us to, of course some of them come in a lot quicker. Some go beyond that. But an average about three weeks. MR. MATSUDA: Thank you. MS. NICHOLSON: I have another question. We’ve gotten a lot of comments back from department heads about the departments using more video conferencing. And so it may come from this department and this department, so to say various departments are requesting equipment to do video conferencing, how does the county look at this overall for all the departments as a policy that we’re going to do it, versus having this having this very departmentalize way at looking at things? I’m also thinking of say you get a request for a couple of different servers but there’s been some talk about going to virtual servers, how does the county look at those sort of larger issues and not get out of the 12 department, but the more operational? Okay, the whole county is, we’re going to move to video conferencing so we’re not doing it piece meal. How does that happen within the county? Obviously it would impact the procurement and contracts. MS. CRAWFORD: I would say that in your example of video conferencing, we have not formally established a county-wide policy or a sort of a mass purchasing. While there might be some savings in going with a large scale video conferencing procurement and establishment, we did not go that direction. It really has been the departments, I think in their capacity, to take advantage of it. For instance, the Fire Department has stations all around the island and they found that it would greatly enhance their efficiency and save staffers time to video conference trainings and meetings, and they managed to set their priorities for equipment purchases so that they could do that. In general, the policy I could say, at the county, is that we support, that for increasing video conferencing as a way to reduce the cost in mobile traveling to meetings, but have not tried to formalize a certain type of procurement around that. MS. NICHOLSON: Would it make sense to you because that would maybe decrease the number of vehicle requests. I don’t know. You’re the experts on this, but it just seems to me to work more holistically, might make more sense. And I don’t know who would do it if it’s not sort of the folks that are working on procurement who would have these sort of larger issues unless it’s coming from the mayor’s office. MR. TAKABA: There are sights, county sights scattered throughout the island that has a video conferencing set up. So for instance the council room has a video conference facility. The mayor’s office has one. The mayor’s office in Kona, the council office in Kona. I’m not sure about other districts, but slowly I think we should be working up towards getting like regional areas that different departments can use. The example that Nancy gave on Fire Department is an unusual request. I don’t think departments request their own video conferencing facility. It’s more like we should be encouraging them to use what is currently available. MS. NICHOLSON: So what is the correct method for doing that when Gilbert sees these requests coming in for this equipment, and so he knows that this department is looking at it, and this department is looking at it? But if departments already vetted it you sort of act on it. Where is that intersection between the request from the various departments and going like maybe as a county we should embrace this a little bit more? How does that happen? MS. CRAWFORD: I think that’s back in the budgeting process. Because at budgeting they’re putting in that request. And we’re probably more aware of where there are already systems, the questions that we would ask. For instance if somebody who works in the county building comes in and wants to get some video conferencing equipment, we’re going to be asking about, we have video conferencing equipment. Is there some compelling reason that you can’t take advantage of what already exists? Because we actually, as Bill said, we’ve got very extensive video conferencing available now. Like in the Finance office we don’t have our own video conferencing but we don’t have reason to use it often enough to warrant having our own, so we would go down to the council room and use that. Or others who have it, Prosecutor’s Office has video conferencing 13 and is always made it known that that’s available for the departments to use their conferencing room and their conferencing equipment. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, I guess then my question would be why did we get so many comments from so many different department heads saying we should use video conferencing more. There’s obviously a barrier there in the perception that we should do this more so that we would reduce staff travel time and mileage, and that there’s a inaudible there, and I’m trying to get at it. How do those things get resolved? MR. TAKABA: I read those comments too. I took it to mean – well there were some that came from the employees and there were some that may have been generated by the departments. But the ones that came from the employees, I think what they were trying to do was reach out to us, like if we could make a recommendation, the county gets more proactive in getting of department heads, maybe division heads, to encourage the use of video rather than generate from the line level. I think it was more like, well it came from both the departments and the employees that it was like getting the county to make a concerted effort to hold more video conferencing meetings, as opposed to buying equipment. I don’t know if there were any requests for actual buying more video conferencing equipment. Oh there was? MS. O’HARA: Yes. There were. This is question, I mean we’re calling the video conferencing thing, but part of the issue I think has been until recently the county was split into all these many offices in Hilo, so there might have been a video conferencing at the mayor’s office but that’s across town for the Department of Environment Management. And I don’t know with moving into the new building there are still departments that are still scattered around town, if that’s going to resolve the centralization shield. And perhaps it does need to be looked at as an overall county plan to bring those departments that are in different locations to have the satellite offices for Planning and others that are over in Kona. And do they have the video conferencing at their offices to be able to join in to meetings? Are those things available currently? Another question is, are services like SKIPE allowed for use? Are there legal issues? Is it okay to use things like SKIPE? MR. MASUDA: SKIPE is not a secured network. MS. O’HARA: Yes. It’s not a secured network, so that’s why I’m asking. Are there legal issues for holding Council meetings across anything like that? MR. MASUDA: Council meetings, it’s open to the public anyway. But I can tell you one thing for sure. I would never interview or have a confidential meeting over SKIPE. MS. O’HARA: Well not confidential. But sometimes it’s just connecting with your employee or something that needs to have happen in face to face. MS. MECKLENBURG: I’m sorry, if I could just interrupt and caution the commission that the agenda item is intended to cover the processing of contracts and contract administration, so before it gets to far off the topic. Sorry. Sunshine Law. 14 MS. O’HARA: Well, the question again, the overall chain of purchasing that based on saving cost for the county, when you do the IFBs for the automobiles, we purchase it as a county. We purchase the printers and we purchase the computers. Have we looked at the idea of doing a county-wide leasing program? MR. BENEVIDES: We have some leasing for printers and copiers and such, and the life cycle on that, going back to your question is about five years for a printer. But other than that no, we haven’t leased really vehicles. It’s been discussed but just recently we were discussing it. But we have not to date leased any vehicles. We have purchased heavy equipment based on a lease from a third party financer so we can spread out the payments over 16 months. But other than that we really haven’t leased per se. We either purchase or in the case of multi-function machines where there is a life cycle issue, we have leased, but very limitedly. On vehicles, not to date. MS. O’HARA: It might be something to look at, zero line inaudible. MS. NICHOLSON: Ken, you have a question? MR. ARMOUR: How is things like travel handled? Do you set up contracts with Aloha or go!, or hotels in Oahu so that everybody gets a good price or is each department just go out and when they travel, just go out and get an airline ticket? MR. BENEVIDES: They get quotes. The get multiple quotes each time they need a travel arrangement made. They call different hotels to see who has the best rate because that fluctuates so much in the marketplace that it really doesn’t make sense to tie yourself to a particular price in an effort to put together like a price term agreement for the year. So we handle it through our department. The departments call us, ask us for who is next in line for a travel agent. And we have a list of about 11 travel agents on the island who want to participate. So we call them. And another option is for the departments to get direct quotes from online with the various different online ticketing agencies that are now available. They check with us. They tell us what the minimum three quotes were and then we give them the approval to go ahead and go with the low quote. So right now that’s the basic process. MR. MASUDA: You folks understand what price term agreements are? MS. NICHOLSON: No we don’t know. MR. MASUDA: Basically a price term agreement is like the beginning of the year, say for airline tickets, we’ll set up this request saying we want a price term agreement with the various airlines to submit their quotes for travel to Honolulu, interisland travel, whatever. And then from there you pick the lowest quote. Say if it’s $59 with Hawaiian Air. Probably it ain’t going to happen in a million years from now, but that’s okay. $59 with Hawaiian Air. Every purchase you purchase for that term of that agreement, which is usually one year, you have to purchase from Hawaiian Air. Even if Hawaiian Air goes down to $38, you know sometimes they have the $38 special, you’re paying $59. go! goes for a two for one, or whatever, you’re locked into that contract, so you have to pay that amount. So things that fluctuate greatly is kind of spooky from a financial position 15 to get locked in to certain kind of things, unless you know that the market is going to go up during that year, or you have a good idea of what the market is going to do. MR. BENEVIDES: And just to interject, because there is such a fluctuation in the market sometimes the market won’t respond to price term agreement. Cause they don’t want to over price for the whole year or they can’t. MR. MATSUDA: Under the procurement process, you mentioned that you can use three quotes from online? MR. BENEVIDES: Yes. That’s one method. MR. MATSUDA: That’s one method. But say if I wanted to travel to Honolulu, I have a meeting in Honolulu. So I have to get three quotes online and I can do that as opposed to get it straight directly from the hotel or the airline? MR. BENEVIDES: You could do that. You have to then, the information that you get from those sights, you would have to document so that we can then review it and compare and make sure that the purchase was made based on competitive issue. But that’s one method that can be used. We put that in place to kind of stream line the process because some times people today find out they have to go tomorrow. So to get the requisitions to us and for us to prioritize doesn’t quite work out sometimes. MR. MATSUDA: Thank you. MR. ARMOUR: I want to ask a question on that. How is the fuel for all the county vehicles done? MR. BENEVIDES: Price term agreement at the beginning of the fiscal year. MR. ARMOUR: So at certain gas stations? MR. BENEVIDES: No, no. We have deliveries to tanks at various facilities throughout the island. MR. ARMOUR: All right, so we fill our own? MR. BENEVIDES: We fill our own once the tanks get topped off by the contractor. MR. MASUDA: It’s all bulk sale. MS. WONG: First I wanted to ask if Deanna wanted to join the table. MS. SAKO: I’m fine. But I’ll stay. MS. CRAWFORD: Deanna is our Deputy Director of Finance. 16 MS. WONG: I’ve got sort of like a fragment to a long complex question, but it’s all in one end thought of contracting process problems potentially. Let me ask you in fragment, do all Finance Department staff get trained in the procurement process? MS. CRAWFORD: Most times. MS. WONG: Do secretaries, do MS. CRAWFORD: No. MS. WONG: Just particular people. Do the County Council because they’re voted in every so many years every time there’s a new one, do they get trained in any of the procurement processes at all? MS. CRAWFORD: We’ve increased the amount of training we do for the council members.More recently we had new council members who came who actually requested that and came and had a more in depth training from several of our sections of budgeting and procurement and accounting. MS. WONG: Do they recognize the complexities of procurement would you say or they sort of have a feel? MS. CRAWFORD: Right. They’re not directly involved in procurement and for that reason they’re not. MS. WONG: And every time a new administration comes in and their new department heads potentially, do they get trained on the procurement process, all the procurement processes? MR. MASUDA: Our office does training on that. MS. WONG: In-house then. MR. MASUDA: For department heads, yes. MS. WONG: Cause I know they do a lot of training up at the UH mixing county people and state people for procurement processing. MR. MASUDA: Are you talking about the procurement institute? MS. WONG: I don’t know if, it’s held at the conference room up above UH. MS. SAKO: Mostly for the vendors. MR. MASUDA: That’s not the institute one. MS. WONG: Cause I know I attended these classes up there. I thought, oops, I’ve been here, done that. And so the department heads are all trained when they start. And what I’m curious about is, I’m trying to figure out are there glitches or problems in 17 the contracting process based on operations or understanding of not only in the finance, but outside, do they understand the process? Cause I know when I started, it took six months before I knew there was any training on the state program. There was any training on procurement. So, I didn’t want to ask for anything because I didn’t know how to ask for it. So, I’m wondering if because the county is transitional upon elections, and I know that your Finance is loosing eight people, is there problems in transition that could be addressed to prevent any problems in the contracting process or do you think that it sort of that’s the way it is? And it’s okay. MS. CRAWFORD: As Craig said, we have at the department head level, there is training. For the most part the departmental level when there is turn over like, I know an accountant comes in to work at Public Works, they do training. They’re doing their hands on training there although people sometimes whether it’s for procurement issues or processing invoices and some other accounting processes, our staff will meet with individuals. It’s not like we’re putting on formal classes but we’re meeting with individuals from different departments like new people who have been hired and need to learn the process. It’s done more the one-on-one kind of training. MR. BENEVIDES: And we get calls almost daily. We’ve told everybody throughout the county system that if you don’t understand what your next step is with procurement, call us. We’re always there. So we field many calls each day. I shouldn’t say many, maybe five or six a day where somebody is asking, hey what do I do next? So in that regard, we provide some guidance as well on a daily basis. MS. CRAWFORD: There’s a procurement handbook for county procurement that departments all have and is also available on our intranet website that people have access to. And similarly I think we have some documents where some of our accounting processing rules that are maintained. Each department has that as a form of guidance to someone who’s coming in cold. It’s not quite the same as having someone sit with you and work through it, but there’s some pretty good documentation on the steps to follow for procurement or what the rules are. MR. MASUDA: Our office does a Procurement 101 class, two times a year. And we do an advance class on Procurement Protest next week. MS. WONG: Okay. Good. Thank you. MS. PROVALENKO: Question, on professional services, is there, now I can imagine that some of the professional services are over the $25,000 amount. Is there bonding in place for that? MR. BENEVIDES: No. I mean again, you can ask for bonding on anything but it is not required. MR. MASUDA: It depends on the service. It’s really going to depend on what you’re really doing and whether they’re going to be consultants or they’re going to actually do the contract. 18 MS. PROVALENKO: Well, I’m thinking say something that actually does the contract. Let’s say they can’t fulfill their contract. Then what takes place? MR. MASUDA: Say for example, take for example like a securities attorney that we hire for bonding. Those people by their profession have to be bonded. So if there is malpractice we can call on the bond. Does that answer your question? MS. PROVALENKO: I’m not going in that direction. I’m talking some other type of service that maybe the county pays for that service MS. NICHOLSON: Videotaping the council. MS. PROVALENKO: Yeah, something like that. Or something that goes over the $25,000 limit, that maybe this person all of a sudden doesn’t perform. And you’ve given them notice to perform already. MR. MASUDA: Like the videotaping, that would be a contract for services, not professional service. But that kind of case, you may have a bonding. You can call for a bond. MS. PROVALENKO: So you can call for bond basically on anything over a certain dollar amount? MR. MASUDA: Yes. MS. CRAWFORD: I think you could. But the other thing is that if you’re making those kinds of requests, you’re also increasing the cost of the contract which is going to be pushed to us. So I think in some cases like engineering and some of those contracting to do design work or something like that. If they were to reach some point and there’s progress along on that and not being paid unless they’re making progress and at some point that’s not working out, those documents are all property of the county whatever’s being generated up to that point. But it’s probably not the kind of thing you would have been able to bond. I would say they could have got a performance bond for a cost to complete the design, but it’s not something that we’ve normally done. MS. PROVALENKO: Okay. MR. MASUDA: The construction ones we do. But that’s going to be typically your bigger dollar amount. MS. CRAWFORD: On construction. MS. YANAGIHARA: Well, anything over $25,000. MS. NICHOLSON: So with construction, if you got a fixed amount of money for a construction project, do the bidders all know what the budget is in advance? MS. YANAGIHARA: There’s an estimated cost that we give to Notice to Bidders. 19 MS. NICHOLSON: And if you only get one bid or no bids, what happens? I mean there was obviously a flaw in the system somewhere to not get anybody who is interested in bidding at that estimated cost level. MS. CRAWFORD: I would say they’re not locked in to that estimated cost at all. That’s given to them. But they’re going to develop their bid. It’s not necessarily a flaw. If we’re talking about construction, say during boom times, contractors are busy. We’re not the easiest clients to deal with. We have a lot of regulations. So you may get one or no bidders on a project not because there’s anything wrong. They could pick whatever they wanted if it was unreasonably high. Because that’s the only reason they could do it, then we wouldn’t necessarily accept that bid. MS. NICHOLSON: And do all contractors have to pay Davis Bacon wages? I’m getting yeses and noes. MR. MASUDA: All contractors that deal with government agencies have to. MS. NICHOLSON: But for county, strictly a county project. MR. MASUDA: Yeah, we’re a government agency. So, yes. Everybody who deals with the county, they have to. That’s how come your question of why sometimes there’s no bids, it’s because there is more money to be made outside, not taking government contracts and they don’t have to pay Davis Bacon wages for those other contracts. MS. O’HARA: My question relates to the drafting of RFPs and to some extent IFBs. In that process it has to initiate from each department in services that they need and what not. What is the handholding between Purchasing Division and the departments as they try to draft these Requests for Proposals or Invitation to Bids, to help reduce the amount of time, often the services were needed yesterday, the departments decide they need the services, they sit down to draft this RFP, the process alone once it’s published takes 60, 90, 120 days to end up in contract. So this process the departments go through drafting their documents can sometimes take so long that by the time it actually gets out on the street it’s changing. MR. BENEVIDES: That can occur, but with about 99% of the purchases we make for any service or any goods, it’s been done already. So we go back, we look at one of our older bids, to start the process off with. We’re not reinventing the wheel each time. Or if it’s a really complex issue that we haven’t worked on before we’ll check with the other jurisdictions to see if they have, and get a copy of their bids. This is at the beginning of the process. We define as much information we can in whole or in part that we can then start the process with. As far as working between Purchasing and the departments it’s a very close relationship in that they put their, essentially they call us, they say, after we get the requisition, they call us and say, this is what we need. So we go search the data banks to see if there’s something that’s similar to, if not exactly the same as they’re requesting. We’ll send it to them for them to review. They’ll start the process there. They’ll send it back to us for us to review or a lot of the times it’s face to face. And we patch it out. Unless there’s some other problem in determining if they want to forward with the project at all, I don’t see it getting hanged up very often at all by putting the RFP or the bid spec together per se precisely because we’re not usually starting from 20 scratch. We don’t reinvent the wheel every time. If we have to reinvent the wheel and start from scratch, obviously it’s going to take a little longer. MS. O’HARA: On that same note, the county has in the past, cancelled RFPs and IFBs that have been out to bid which companies have reacted to, responded to, and the county then cancels them. Is there some way to prevent that from happening? Because that’s not another discouragement to the planning sector to bid on. MR. BENEVIDES: Sure. And that’s always part of the thought process in going in. It’s to make sure that the need is there. Most of the time the need is there or the using agency wouldn’t be requesting it in the first place. But if there’s any reticent on that side, we’re having meetings with them. If there seems to be any real problem about making the award, we’ll discuss that. Hey, if you guys aren’t really thinking seriously about making this award, let’s not put it out. I have not come across really that problem as a major problem. And the cancellations of bids that you hear about comparatively speaking to the overall bids that are put out, very small. But we do not like when it happens, obviously. So we’re always trying to prevent that. And every bid that we put out, the intention is to make the award. But for some reason or other, we may not be able to. But them sometimes it goes back to the law, the way the specifications were written. We don’t have enough time. Or it’s too complex to address as an addendum to the bid. So we would cancel the bid and start all over. There are instances like that that precipitate the cancelling of the bid every once and a while. MS. O’HARA: Thank you Gilbert. Another thing, we had a presentation by the Green Team. Alex Frost came in to one of our meetings and in recognition of that, how much work is Purchasing doing to try and include green pricing phraseology in your contracts, be it fuel, or vehicles or whatever? Are we working to get those types of language into our request for proposals and bids? I know the other counties are doing so. MR. BENEVIDES: That’s more of a policy issue. If the county decides that that’s the policy and that’s the way they would want us to write the specs to include that, then that’s the way we would write it. So I would just leave that answer to Nancy. MS. CRAWFORD: At this point we have not focused a lot of energy on making sure that we’ve got green language in our contracts. And that’s not to say we’re not open to that at all. It’s just that’s not something we focused a lot of attention on up to this point, I can imagine, certainly there are in certain construction jobs that’s, I’m not speaking of construction jobs right now, if you were talking more, I thought you were, I was thinking of other kinds of contracts that we could certainly be looking into. In construction there will be a number of things, and what we’re doing is energy efficiency projects. MS. O’HARA: That’s great to hear. MR. BENEVIDES: And just as an aside, all of our paper will be, we applied a preference for recycle stuff. MS. O’HARA: My last question is I guess, well Jodie described the process and then once the contract’s in place, you get the certified payrolls and invoices from the contractors. How do we, as a county, document the work that we’ve contracted for is 21 actually the work that is going down on the ground? Who are the ears and eyes from staff that confirms that the work is as we contracted so that we don’t pay on invoices that perhaps we shouldn’t be paying. MS. YANAGIHARA: The inspectors and the project engineers. The project engineer is the overall responsible for the project, and then they send out the inspectors. That’s mainly seeing that the work is actually done and the way it’s supposed to be done. MS. O’HARA: For the contracting side? MS. YANAGIHARA: Yes. MS. O’HARA: And then on the goods and services side, how do we check those things? MR. BENEVIDES: Once we make the order, there is a delivery date that is required and of course they have to meet specifications. And if they are late in delivering or they are off by any bid on the specifications, we hear immediately from the using agencies. So it’s the using agencies. Once they receive it and they’ve accepted it, if we don’t hear complaints then it went the way it was supposed to go. We don’t call per se as a standard practice to say, did you get the copier today and is it working well? But we do find out if it’s not. MS. O’HARA: And I assume we’re buying maintenance contracts too? MR. BENEVIDES: We are. MS. NICHOLSON: Are there other models for handling the fiscal issue of purchasing, contracts or is this – the way this county does it, is that the way that most jurisdictions do it? Or are there other ways? MS. CRAWFORD: Well some of our constraints as Craig said are legal requirements that’s complex and extensive procurement law that we all live with in terms of processing the requisitions or the contracts later. I’m sure every county agency has something a little bit different. Gilbert speaks with his counterparts in other counties. MR. BENEVIDES: The model that we used is based obviously on the law. But again the internal functions of paper going from one place to another or electronic notification going from one place to another, I can’t see as being substantially different on other jurisdictions because it’s just a matter of relaying information. I don’t exactly understand what you mean by model. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, I guess I’m wondering if each of you, just trying to get out of your box the way you do things, knows of a different way that it might be interesting to look at, or is there a different way to do it? MR. BENEVIDES: Well, the procurement method selection is as per Craig’s handout. Small purchasing, sole source, IFBs, RFPs, so the process is pretty much spelled out in HAR, Hawai‘i Administrative Rules, which Craig mentioned earlier, gives you the detail. 22 It’s based on the law but it gives you the detail on how to put your processes in place to accomplish it. So, basically following the law and the rule, and that kind of models the process that we use to go forward. MR. TAKABA: The state is decentralized, and they delegate all of the purchasing to the departments. I think maybe that’s what we’re getting at is our processing different from other jurisdiction. The State Procurement Office does not do procurement. It’s all decentralized to the departments like how we do it with Public Works. MS. NICHOLSON: But is ours then centralized? Are you saying it’s a pretty centralized system? MR. TAKABA: Ours is centralized. MR. MASUDA: By Charter it’s centralized. Actually I know for sure some mainland municipalities, they don’t have requirements of centralized purchasing, but our Charter says we use centralized purchasing. MS. O’HARA: With the exception of DPW and now DEM. (Bill Takaba left at 11:35) MR. MASUDA: No, that’s still centralized. It’s a delegation. MS. CRAWFORD: It’s a delegation but still centralized under Finance Director. And I guess I would say that is by Charter, but also I would say I think that it’s efficient. It gives us the opportunity to see what we’re saying because requests come in and we purchase like items together to get best prices as opposed to every department just… I know you’re not recommending that necessarily but it’s almost the only other model I can think of. And since that one isn’t appropriate for us, what’s left for us to try to imagine outside the box comes more to just this paper flow we’re talking about here. And I think a lot of thought went into this and that’s not to say there might not be something else to do, but every step we do here, we try to make it as efficient as possible and we feel that everyone of these steps is necessary. MS. O’HARA: Does DPW also use the same contract? Contracts are often let for a period of time with the ability to extend for additional periods of time. And that’s what called an addendum to contracting. Does the department initiate addendums to contract or is that initiated by your department? MR. BENEVIDES: If the contract has been let to Purchasing, out of purchasing, then we would do all the subsequent supplemental agreements. If it’s done directly by Public Works then they would do it for construction. MS. CRAWFORD: So some contracts have option year in them, so that’s one that would, I mean unless they have a reason not to go with the option year, but that’s beneficial rather than going out to bid every year for some kind of service that you have several option years and if everything is going well then you would just renew those . 23 MS. O’HARA: So Gilbert, this is all tracked electronically, isn’t it, the contracts and the supplemental contracts, etc.? MR. BENEVIDES: Well they’re in the system electronically. But we send the paper around for signatures because it’s gotta be the original signatures. MS. O’HARA: Right, I understand. I’m not trying to pinpoint. I happen to work for a company that has a small contract with the county, that had the supplemental years, where supplemental contracts weren’t forthcoming. They appeared a year late. So, I’m just kind of curious, is there something that could be improved in your electronic system that might be a MR. BENEVIDES: Well, in place now, I see what you’re getting at, about four months prior to the contract coming to expiration, if there are option years, we send what we call a green sheet notification to the using agency saying this thing is coming up. You guys tell us if you want to rebid, do the option year or if you don’t need the services any longer. We constantly stay on top of that. We have our contracts clerk who stays on top of that, and she gets electronic beeps everyday as to what’s coming up, what’s still out there. We call the using agencies. We ask them, we didn’t get this back yet, so we can’t go forward with doing an addendum or a rebid. Sometimes it’s because the using agency is still deciding if they want it or if they need some changes. And sometimes it leads to going out quite late, but it’s not because we haven’t sent it out. It’s because the decision to go forward has not been made yet. MS. O’HARA: The key word there was the green sheet. When we’re still relying on colored paper to track things it tells me that we could be doing things perhaps more efficiently electronically. So, I guess something to look at because that system has caused problems for contractor in the past and I know as a contractor we were affected by it too. MR. BENEVIDES: To augment the green sheet, we do at the same time send out emails to tell them that it is coming and to please respond as quickly as possible. And the contract clerk then puts a three day higher suspense date one it so that she gets prompted again in three days if it hasn’t come back to contact the using agency again either by email or sometimes we find more effectively, a phone call. MS. O’HARA: Just wondering if there was some contract routing on line that departments could directly go into and access to determine whether or not the contract is moving, if it needs the supplemental you know, what things are, cause sometimes it’s difficult to get that information down to the person in the department who’s actually managing the contract cause it may not be the department head. MR. BENEVIDES: I go back to what I said a little earlier where we field calls all day and a lot of those calls are finding out what the status is on contracts. And so we’ll bring everybody up to date. Sometimes we have to track down if it’s still at the using agency or Corp Counsel, the Mayor’s Office. So there is constant contact trying to track those. Unfortunately sometimes some, for whatever reason, gets caught in this or that, and it takes a while to get them completely. 24 MS. O’HARA: Well, just something to consider that there’s a better electronic tracking system that you can used countywide that would assist the process, that would be really handy. MS. NICHOLSON: Are there any questions? I think we’re ready to let you go. Thank you all for, oh Gloria had something. MS. WONG: Just an invitation, is there anything that you would like to say to us, improvement or anything at all? MS. CRAWFORD: I don’t personally have anything. I appreciate that what you did do right from the very beginning is reach out to the departments and we did have a chance to make suggestions either as a department or as an individual and to the employees who I think you get a wide variety of responses. I think that’s great that you’ve done that so far. MS. NICHOLSON: And we’re still accepting. MR. MASUDA: Can I make a shameless plug? I really appreciate all of you folks sitting on this commission, however, 5% of the community bears 95% of the burden, so if you guys are interested after this is done to join our Tax Review Board, we’re still looking for members. MS. NICHOLSON: Thank you so much. Okay we have a request for a break. Okay let’s take a 10 minute break. BREAK: 11:30 – 11:40. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, we’re all here shall we reconvene? Before we go back to agenda item 4, I’d like to just continue with our discussion of the presentations we just heard and see what we actually do as a process for what we’ve taken in from what they had to say about procurement. And this, in the way is also sort of item 8, but not really. What we’re really on is still on item 5. When we have speakers in, I hate for them to just talk and leave and we just on to something else. What would you like to do with the kind of input we got from our four speakers this morning on procurement? Or did we get anything from them that we find might be useful in our subcommittees or in our overall discussion of our mission. MS. O’HARA: I think we’ve got an excellent overview of the different types of contracts, problems that can arise from contracts or from the procurement process, challenges and idea of how this works in a department for departments to identify their needs and then go through the procurement process. I think it would be very helpful to hear from some of the key departments that are served by procurement. I would say not DPW since they have their own system for construction contracts, but have some of the other departments and if there are any issues with the procurement process from their end, how they might be resolved, and if technology could be incorporated to improve that communication in tracking contracts. 25 MS. NICHOLSON: So, what if, and Gloria, this sort of gets back to a question you asked about glitches in the system. What if when we have speakers, we ask them about procurement issues? It becomes one of our sort of question to any speaker no matter what we’ve invited them to talk about. We also want to ask if their department heads issues with procurement, is that MS. O’HARA: Whether they’re able to procure the services or materials they need in a timely manner. If not what are the obstacles. Any problems that the departments may have in managing the contract? The oversight for insuring that what we contracted actually is what is delivered. What their methods are and if they have problems with that end. MS. NICHOLSON: Do you think it would be a good idea when we invite the department head to come and speak to us, that we provide the information in advance that we would like them to address? Procurement issues? MS. O’HARA: Yes. That’s pretty general but just if their department is able to procure the services they need in a timely manner and what improvements might be made to the procurement system from their perspective to insure that they get the services they are asking for. MS. NICHOLSON: Any discussion on that? MS. WONG: I had met with Nancy before this and she was not aware of what she was being asked to speak on. When I told her what our three committees were then she could focus in and be ready to address our three. So I think it would be helpful if we bring in any speakers to let them know what our topics are and that they understand that we’d be looking for their strengths and weakness or issues in their particular department or looking for any sense of improvement in their department. MS. NICHOLSON: That’s a good suggestion. I don’t want us to be restricted to just what our subcommittees do because I think there are a whole lot of other larger issues in the county. So I don’t want to say address these three subcommittee issues. But I think it’s good to let them know that we have a particular emphasis on these particular issues. MS. WONG: And when I told them, the people that we met with what our committees were, I also included that the overall view is to look at policies and operations and cost of government. That helped them I think. I think we looked at my question of whether your procurement problems I was trying to look at, and then it came from the other side what kind of improvements might you suggest. And I think that takes it to the broader view. I think they got that. And this is the second time I did that to Nancy, what other thing might you want to say? And even though she knew I was going to do it, it still caught her off guard. You know, what else can I come up with? I just gave you my whole spiel, what else can I come up with? But I think that if they know that they have the opportunity, and he did, he had an opportunity to say something. The speakers can say something to us that we’ll take seriously and may present it in our recommendations. I think that’s important for them to know.We’re just not here to find 26 out what they do, that we want to do something with it to help them to do their work better. MS. NICHOLSON: Any other discussion relating to our speakers we just had about procurement? MS. O’HARA: Just a point that they brought up when I asked them about whether they were incorporating green pricing language into their contracts and they said that’s a policy issue that the county has not pressed that policy. If we look at this in context of working with the energy team, it’s something that maybe the county should be looking at more. There are models from the other counties to do this, the various types of contracts that they’re pursuing annually. So, departments could identify what green pricing affects them specifically, whether it be in fuels or vehicles or different areas of construction. And whether that’s a policy that the county should be pursuing. MS. WONG : I was very pleased to find out that it is a centralized process. I think that really helps. I was surprised that not all the County Council people had gone through the process of understanding this. And I think it’s an important process to understand when you’re in a leadership position. But when you’re making policies as the County Council people do, they make policies, this will impact through the departments perhaps. And they don’t know how difficult it is to process it down the lines. We might consider if it’s the flavor what we got today that we recommend or suggest that all County Council be required to go through at least an introduction of the procurement process. I’m not recommending that as of yet. I’m just saying we might consider that. I don’t know if that’s really necessary. MS. NICHOLSON: It might be better for them after they’ve actually been sitting on the County Council for a little bit of time so they can see how better it might liken them. MS. WONG : And I know what I went through with my training, when I read the documents, not a clue. When someone was actually showing me how the paper process went, I thought, oh my goodness, this is so long, and I kept trying to figure out ways to cut down the process. Cannot do. There’s the state law. So you have to go by the state law. MS. NICHOLSON: Anything else on that topic? If not we will go, now back up and go to Correspondence. CORRESPONDENCE MS. NICHOLSON: I have a motion to accept and file correspondence A through L, which means we still have an opportunity to talk about those particular things when we get to our subcommittee reports so it’s putting it off the table but just to accept and file A through L? MOTION:MR. MATSUDA: So moved. MS. O’HARA: Second. 27 MS. NICHOLSON: All in favor? ACTION ON MOTION: All: Aye. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? None MS. MECKLENBURG: I’m sorry, point of clarification. Is the subcommittee report on this communications? MS. NICHOLSON: The subcommittee reports is item 7. MS. MECKLENBURG: Does it involve the communications? MS. NICHOLSON: It often does because the responses were all in response to letters we sent out about what we’re trying to accomplish and it specifically addressed items A, B, C under 7. MS. WONG: At the last commission meeting, we had to go one by one. MS. NICHOLSON: I know, but the one before we took them all. MS. MECKLENBURG: Okay, I just want to clarify. I haven’t got inducted to these communications but anything that falls outside of those specific sub items under the subcommittee needs to actually be discussed under the correspondence rather than that. MS. NICHOLSON: I do believe every one of these was in response to our inquiries. MS. MECKLENBURG: Okay. MS. NICHOLSON: I don’t thing there’s anything we would need to separate. Eileen you have something? MS. O’HARA: I just wanted to say that most of these later communications A through L, if not all of them are following up on the past recommendations that the previous Cost of Government Commission made. We asked those departments who had received recommendations from the Cost of Government Commission in 2007 what the status of the recommendations were, had they been implemented, what were the problems in implementing them. And so most of these A through L communications are referencing that communications sent out and the status of their implementation efforts on the recommendations made by the previous commission. As such it’s kind of a different animal in and of itself then just a initial questionnaire and surveys that we sent out. So, maybe it’s something that we want to look at separately just to analyze whether the recommendations from the previous commission were useful, were they undertaken, and if not, why not. That was kind of the purpose. MS. NICHOLSON: What we might want to do is because we don’t have all those responses back yet, is put that as a future agenda item, is to group together all those 28 responses unless the subcommittees want to handle them. So that’s actually part of agenda item 8. MS. O’HARA: And we asked of the staff for the log on those communications. MS. CARVALHO: It’s in your packets. MS. NICHOLSON: I think under 8, we probably want to talk about what we want them to do with those communications that were in response to our request, what did they do with the suggestions. So, all of those communications A through L do correspond directly to agenda item 7 or agenda item 8. MS. MECKLENBURG: Actually when I look at agenda item 7 there is no discussion. It’s just the report. So there’s no discussion under item 7. So I think it would be wise to, if you don’t want to discuss the communications now, we can put that as a future agenda item to discuss the subject matter of all of the communications. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, if you would like to go through them one by one, we can certainly go back and do that. MS. WONG: I particularly want to ask on one. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, so already made a motion and we already voted on the motion so we now need to go back. How do we go back? MS. MECKLENBURG: I’m sorry? You voted on the motion. MS. NICHOLSON: We did. And the motion was to accept and file all of the correspondence A through L. MS. MECKLENBURG: So if you want to discuss, you want to make a motion to reconsider and reopen correspondence item. MS. NICHOLSON: Does anyone want to make a motion to reconsider so that we can discuss specific correspondence? MOTION:MS. O’HARA: So moved. MR. MATSUDA: Second. MS. NICHOLSON: All in favor? ACTION ON MOTION: All: Aye. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? None MS. NICHOLSON: So what particular items would you like to discuss? 29 MS. WONG: Letter to Dominic Yagong. Actually I’d like to find out if we had a response? MS. CARVALHO: No response from Mr. Yagong. MS. NICHOLSON: So we had requested, just to refresh everyone’s memory, we had requested that he send us a copy of the report that he apparently, a survey he took? Something he did with all the county employees and departments in cost saving issues. So, we’re still waiting for a response on that. MS. WONG: That was the only one I was interested in. MS. NICHOLSON: Any other items that someone wants to discuss in Correspondence? MS. O’HARA: Let me just clarify with our attorney present, if at another date we want to discuss content in one of these communications and some of the context, and we’re able to do that correct? Just because they’re filed doesn’t mean they’re not accessible? MS. MECKLENBURG: As long as you have an agenda item that speaks to the subject matter, you can discuss the content, yes. MS. NICHOLSON: So now we need to go back again and accept and file these all over again? MS. MECKLENBURG: Yes, you’re back at the motion to file if there’s no more discussion then you can vote. MS. NICHOLSON: So if there’s no more discussion on agenda item 4 which is the Correspondence A through L, do I have a motion accept and file? MOTION:MS. PROVALENKO: So moved. MR. MATSUDA: Second. MS. NICHOLSON: All in favor? ACTION ON MOTION: All: Aye. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? None DISCUSSION OF SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT PRESENTED AT OCTOBER 8 MEETING MS. NICHOLSON: Now we are on to our subcommittee report that was presented at the last meeting. Which one of you would like to talk about it? MS. WONG: We presented it at the last meeting but we were not allowed to discuss. 30 MS. NICHOLSON: Do we want to MS. WONG: Well just to, I’m sorry. MR. MATSUDA: Everybody has the committee report? The recommendations A to F are coming from committee as far as any kind of recommendations that we have. There is another area that is added down here, points to consider but mostly, I think item A which is to invite Scott Leonard to speak to the commission to the commission to discuss his responses which were very specific. I think he is going to be good for the commission to hear and that is what I would like to first of all accomplish at this commission meeting today. As to when and where at which meeting, I do not know, but that is what we can discuss at this point. MS. NICHOLSON: So when we get to talk about upcoming agenda items we can discuss that and when it might be appropriate. MR. MATSUDA: Exactly. MS. NICHOLSON: I guess when I read this report, I guess I had a little reservation when I saw that the report says immediate implementation and that we recommend that these things happen immediately. And I thought well, I don’t know that we should be, I don’t know how we do something immediately because it would have to be in our report that goes out. But it seems to me that we should probably wait and maybe somehow when we structure the report we have maybe section that’s immediate action or we highlight things in some way on the report. But for us to, as they come along suddenly say we recommend you do this immediately, I’m not sure quite the mechanism how we would or the appropriateness of trying to MS. WONG: Let me address that because I was the one. And I underlined that because I knew that it would cause lights going on. I feel that although we have a final report, recommendations, advice to the mayor at the end, that in the planning process, planning processes are dynamic. And I would like to, the media would be an advisory letter to the mayor at this time. It could be a gentle letter, but to show that we are, not only show the mayor, but show the people that we are asking to come to the meetings and give the employees, to show that we are responding to their statements and supporting what they’re saying. And it seems almost unquestionable that their asking for the micro fische and the video conferencing, multi-media communication. C was not overall, but Bill sits on MS. NICHOLSON: He had to leave early. It’s too bad he’s not here now. MS. WONG: He sits on our committee and I especially asked both of them, are you uncomfortable with any of this? Is this okay? And I especially wanted to hear his response. Is it okay to ask this? And he says, yes. And I think he understands my intent of showing that we can do something that’s actually influential during the process and not wait till the end. And we can monitor whether the response of what we’re requesting in the next few months that we’re still in the commission. So, for B and C, that was the intent to show a dynamic process. Let me just go through and then you can say, I agree with this, I don’t agree with this. In G, Health and education industries 31 be reviewed by commission as possible focus within R&D’s department. From the very beginning Bill said that if we can identify the essential functions of the county, and so we did that research and they were these essential functions. And the two that were not especially addressed were health and education industries. Teaching and health care are state things. But when you look at the industries, it’s something that I felt that if we’re going to be consistent with what the essential functions are, if that’s what we looked at, we say that that is not covered by the county, then we should suggest a format to fill in that vacuum. And as we looked, I thought that it would be a better option to be coming from the Mayor’s Office, from executive assistants, but when we met with Randy Kurohara from R&D, and talked about his different industry areas and his branch focuses. I had met with him a couple of years ago about health care industry. And he remembered that and he said they still were not able to address it, but they have two job openings, budgeted opening that they need to fill. So Bill Takaba asked, could that be filled by health and education? I think I said well, you don’t have to put one in each. You could one in both, two in one or there’s one that’s new industries. I said you could put health and education into new industries. I just want to make sure that there is health and education covered consistently. And I have a special interest in those two interest myself, but I don’t want to impose my special interest. I just want to be consistent with what we’re trying to do. But Randy Kurohara seemed to say, yeah, we could take that in. Throughout the meetings I’ve talked about grants MS. NICHOLSON: Could we just, I just want to clarify what you are saying here. You’re saying they have two vacant positions in R&D now? MS. WONG: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: For MS. WONG: No, they don’t have a title for those positions. They just are funded for two more positions. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, so they’re going to be hiring to fill these two specialist positions? MS. WONG: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: And what you are saying is that one of those positions ought to be health and education industries? Or cover the health and education industries? MS. WONG: If possible, yes. MS. NICHOLSON: If possible. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify what that was. MS. WONG: I’m just trying to find the spot for health and education. On E, just because I know we are under an economic strain, the whole nation is, but I’m looking for how to bring in more revenue to the county so I’m looking at grants. And with all the people we met with, I just posed the question – What is your opinion of grants? Do you write grants? How do you get grant money into your program? And it seemed more 32 likely that the grant process would come within R&D or Finance or the Mayor’s. We were surprised to find out that R&D did not have a grant writer. They had someone that would find grants and tell the other departments about the grants. But I expressed that grant writing is a particular skill and there should be someone that oversees who is getting the grants, and not someone who has their job, their particular function that they’re hired for, and during their spare time they write a grant. MS. NICHOLSON: Now I remember asking at the last Cost of Government Commission talking to departments about grants. And talking to R&D about grants. The response was something, if my memory is correct, that many of the grants that the county say coins a department to are so esoteric and specialized for that division that they don’t feel like they can write them. That the departments have the knowledge at their fingertips and understand the technical aspects of some of the programs that they want funding for. But that is why it’s more appropriate for a department to be writing their own grants. When you talked to Randy, did he say he thought it was a good idea that R&D write grants? Is that what this MS. WONG: No. Randy did not feel that they could write grants, and that surprised me. When I talked to Nancy, Nancy thought that it would be a good idea to have a grant writer. When I talked to her about the options of R&D or Finance or the Mayor’s, because I was told no by R&D. So I said, Nancy, how about your department? Would it make sense to come out of your department? She was quickly trying to assess. She said, well, it makes a lot of sense. While she was doing that, I said my preference would be that it would come from the Mayor’s Office cause he has the overview and he can nip it if he wants to stop it in the bud before it even takes off. And she said that would make more sense but Finance also has their fingers on everything. So she said it would also make sense if Finance had that. But she said we don’t have anyone with that capacity at that time. She also said that they are loosing eight people in their department this year, which is going to be extremely stressful to hire new people to fill those positions and get up to speed. And she said it might be really hard to get a grant writer on top of that before the end of, eight people are retiring before the end of the year. So she said that there’s going to be a lot of stress on their department. And I said let’s look at this on a long term, not necessarily this year or next year, but look at the broader picture about grants and how that might be a revenue enhancement for the county. And again I asked Bill how he felt about that, Bill Takaba. And he says well, if we can bring in more grants without loosing the function of what the people are doing, that would be good. And I said you’re loosing the function of what people or doing because they’re distracted by having to also, in their spare time, write the grants. MS. NICHOLSON: I wonder if it would make more sense to, given just what I related about the last Cost of Government Commission when we brought this up, if it would make more sense, the person at R&D who points various departments to grants that might be available, have some additional responsibility of sort of following up and maybe there being support through R&D for helping the department do grants. But now necessarily be the grant writer for the county, but be a support specialist to help departments write grants and follow up to say, I sent you that thing last week. Are you really looking at it? Are you going to pursue it? How can I help, or how can we support you in writing that grant? I don’t know. I think we need to have more conversations with people. 33 MS. WONG: Yes. And that’s why as we meet with different people, I asked how they view it and if people are not wanting a grant writer, that’s fine with me. But I think the county is loosing, and especially last year would have been a good year to go for grants when all of ARRA money, and particularly I asked, are you getting ARRA money? Most of them said we don’t have the time. MS. NICHOLSON: You have to leave? MS. PROVALENKO: Yes. Patricia Provalenko left at 12:10. MS. NICHOLSON: So we don’t have a quorum? MS. CARVALHO: We do. It’s still five. MS. O’HARA: I agree with you in concept, Gloria, about the county needs to have either contract hire or staff that does the actual grant writing. Having been in the county, and I’ve written grants for 20 years academic and industry and all kinds of different grants, federal, state and private foundations. It’s a very, very time consuming process. And when I entered the department and we needed money that wasn’t forthcoming from the county coffers, I commenced to write a quarter million dollar grant. I did so after work and on the weekends in order to get it done. Grants always had very intense deadlines, so when you hear about it and at most you’re going to have 60 days to put together a mammoth package that includes all kinds of certificates that has to be signed by the appropriate personnel. It’s a very time consuming process. If you don’t have somebody who is familiar with this types of processes, hitting the road running as soon as you find out about the grant opportunity, you’re not likely to get the award down the road. And I would disagree that you need somebody that knows the specifics of the department’s needs. I’ve written grants that are totally outside of my scope of experience in terms of technology, etc., that have been awarded because you know how to package it. You know the information you need to get from the scientist or the engineer, or whoever it is, and put it together and package the application properly. So, it’s more about the skill of packaging grants and writing grants than it is about knowing the specifics of that particular department. So, I entirely agree with you. There needs to be dedicated personnel or the county is never going to get the money that’s sitting out there available. As this county entity and state entity, a lot of the federal grants give preference of course to local governments. So, even though it is a competitive process you rank much higher say then some poor profit business or non-profit entity that’s come onto the table and are applying for that same piece of pie. So we could be a lot more successful than we are in garnering money that’s out there for different projects that we need to pursue. So, I believe that whether it be a position in R&D, and if the R&D director is not akamai with this suggestion that may not move forward. But I think ideally in the Mayor’s Office because it really does have to have the support the mayor ultimately, whatever grant is pursued, has to have the support of the mayor. And if they had a dedicated personnel who’s says, okay, R&D has identified this potential grant for Parks & Recreation and so that person that is in the Mayor’s Office goes and makes contact with the individuals of Parks & Rec who need to be involved in putting together 34 the story for the grant. I call it story because it’s kind of creative writing to some extent. And then knows how to do all the budgetary items that need to be pulled together, all the certificates that need to be pulled together. And then you get your package in and you get it in on time. And it has the support of the administration, and it has the department’s buy it. I see that it is a very collaborative role for either contract hire or a permanent position. And it would bring a lot more revenue into the county. Grants, most federal grants especially, are just a very imposing task. MS. WONG: And I think now that we’re entering into a new governor, the new governor, whoever it may be, will want to be reaching out and making sure that the different counties are partnering with the state. That might be timely to have someone who can address that. I just wanted to make this point because I’ve been sort of pushing health, education and grants throughout the meetings. It can be very taskful. And I made a point of telling Bill I’m not looking for a position. And if I were to write a grant I would do it pro bono, but I think it’s such a resource and an asset, these three items that I’m sort of pushing for the county. And he did say that they had hired contract grant writers. And when he told me some of the prices they pay to have the contract grant writers, wow, let me take that job. So grant writers have particular skills and to just to piggy back on what you said, I’ve written many grants in agriculture. I can’t even grow the plants in my yard half the time. But I know how to write the grants. I know where to go. And I know, key, get it in on time. And with the federal and state grants that I’ve worked with, especially like the people down in the ground, which is the county people at this point. And one of the things I was saying to Bill was when you work with different industries, you know in ag, you go to DayDay. You know who in R&D you go to for different industries. Who do you go to for help? There’s Karen Teshima, but Karen Teshima is not an employee. So you can’t go to Karen Teshima for help. Who do you go to for education? And I don’t know if you’ve noticed in the past few months, College of Pharmacy, UH, they’re bringing in a lot of research money. They have been trying to reach out to the county, to say we’d like to partner with you folks because we need the county’s support. They have to go directly to the mayor. The mayor is busy. So, I’m trying to encourage the linking for the industries I think that will be long lasting. Not the tourism, is not long lasting. But it’s dependent upon cycles. Education and health care are really a stable industry for our county. MS. O’HARA: I agree with you. The county could be partners on a lot of private grants if there was somebody to contact at the mayor’s office to bring that in. I’ve recently worked on a grant. It would have been nice to bring the county in as a collaborate partner. It didn’t happen because you can’t get the timely response from the county necessary to get your grants together. So, you can’t wait until the announcement and go out and contract somebody to write a grant. It’s not going to happen. MS. WONG: And part of that, what you just said now is because the department heads don’tinaudible, some people don’t see the value of grants. And sometimes they say we don’t have the program and we don’t have the people. We’re over worked as it is so don’t talk to us about more work. But more programs make the synergy and the strength to whatever function more successful. So, that’s my spiel for the recommendations. 35 MS. NICHOLSON: I don’t know if we want to take action on those recommendations right now, or if we want to put how we might deal with those kinds of recommendations as part of our item 8, Discussion regarding our approach, so that when a recommendation comes forward from any committee, and I think it might be better to talk about it then because then we’ll be talking about it more from any committee rather than just these recommendations. MS. WONG: If we pass that, then can we make a decision on whether we want to call in - if we don’t make a decision at this point, can we make a decision on 8 whether we want to call in Scott Leonard or whether we want to send a letter to the mayor? MS. NICHOLSON: I think, and correct me if I’m wrong, I think that Scott Leonard definitely would fall under 10, Items to be placed on the next agenda. We can talk about whether we want that on our next agenda. So, I’m talking specifically about your recommendations. And I’m hearing actually three recommendations which would be B and C and the third one would be recommending as part of a letter to the mayor that we would be sending and advisory letter that the county consider having a grant specialist. MS. WONG: I’m not suggesting that at this time. MS. NICHOLSON: You’re not? MS. WONG: No. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. MS. WONG: I’m just saying that we consider these and this is what has been discussed. The two things that we’re recommending – one is for Scott Leonard to be invited to speak. And the other is that, and I don’t know how you folks feel about C, but that a letter be sent to the mayor in support of micro fische, video conferencing and multi-media for however we want to word that. And that the commission be advised that, the mayor be advised that we, the commission, supports that all boards and commissions evaluate the scheduling of their meetings. And when we talked to some of the department heads and we asked them which boards or commissions do you oversee? And they posed, do we have to meet every month? How often do you have to meet? And then eventually that, can you meet quarterly? They said we’d love to meet quarterly. The time that they have to put towards these meetings are burdening them. Although some like Planning Commission ought to be meeting every month. The intent was to have the commissions and boards evaluate themselves, not us tell them they have to change. That they are asked to evaluate how many times they ought to meet, just as maybe we ought say, we meet once a month or twice a month. But we choose and a reminder for them to choose it this time. MS. O’HARA: I think such recommendations would be best made in our final report and if it needs to be made separately, through letter of communication in addition to our final report. That we wait until we’re closer to the end of the term to identify if there’s multiple issues we want to address to the mayor rather than just sending a communication about this one issue. I think it would be more effective than if we start sending out many communications through the end of the term. What I’m saying is I 36 don’t think it would be as effective if we started to send out many communications throughout our 11 months term rather than deliberating on the recommendations that we do make and submitting it in one communication more towards the end of our term when we’ve considered other things as well. I just feel it would be more effective that way. MS. NICHOLSON: Any discussion on that topic? MS. WONG: Well, I said what I thought. The reason why I suggested immediate, but stop me if I’m overstepping cause I’m going to say something about another meeting, but meeting with Nancy Crawford, I asked her if she has gotten all the responses that we’ve received from the departments and anonymous and whoever. She said it was very helpful for her to start making changes in her budget and start making changes in programs. So, she’s taking action. And I asked her, do you think that it would be read or received by other department heads? She said, well, yes. It’s helping me. I think the other department heads to see how things like change or improve or what another department might be suggesting might help them. And I said do you think they should get that information? I got my information, that was helping me. I said should the mayor get information now? Is the mayor receiving this information? She said she didn’t know who was receiving this, but she says the mayor should certainly be given updated information. And I said, do you think that he would be reading that? Well. And again the point is to show that a report or a plan is not just paper, it’s dynamics in action. MS. NICHOLSON: Gentlemen, do you have any comments? MS. MECKLENBURG: You may want to, if you’re trying to come to a decision on whether to act immediately or later, you may want to make a motion for one of the other and then have the discussion and take it to a vote. MS. WONG: Or vote and then discussion? MS. MECKLENBURG: If it’s for the particular decision on whether to send a communication immediately or to make it part of the report. Typically what you do is make a motion then have discussion. A motion, second, discussion and then a vote. MS. NICHOLSON: So it would really be limited just to these two recommendations. MS. MECKLENBURG: Just to one. One at a time. MS. NICHOLSON: Yeah, but we’re really going, we’re not like setting this is how we’re going to handle it from here on out. Because we’re just talking about this one report. MS. MECKLENBURG: Correct. So the items that you’re considering out of this one report. MS. NICHOLSON: Does someone want to make a motion one way or the other? MS. WONG: I’ll make a motion that we invite Scott Leonard 37 MS. NICHOLSON: No, no, no. The motion is on sending a letter to the mayor. The Scott Leonard is still on when we’re talking about upcoming agenda items. MS. WONG: Okay, so you’re not allowing that motion to be made at this time? MS. NICHOLSON: Well, we’ve already got it as an agenda item because we’re talking about upcoming. MS. O’HARA: It will go under Item 8 seems like. MS. NICHOLSON: Yeah. So we’re not talking about that now. We’re talking about MR. MATSUDA: Item 9 right? MS. NICHOLSON: Oh, excuse me. Item 10. We were talking about what we want to do on the next agenda meeting then we can talk about Scott Leonard if we want to invite him for the next agenda or for future. MR. MATSUDA: So, if we put him on item number 10 then all we’re doing is we just say okay, you’re going to be on the agenda the next time. MS. NICHOLSON: No, we’re going to discuss it then. MR. MATSUDA: Right. Okay. MS. WONG: And I’d like to make the motion now so that it be acknowledged that our committee is making the recommendation. MR. MATSUDA: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, so you’re making the motion that we do what? MOTION:MS. WONG: Invite Scott Leonard to speak to the commission particularly to discuss his responses that was sent to us. The choice of when that is can be discussed in Item 10, but I would like to make a motion that Scott Leonard be invited to speak the commission to discuss his responses. MR. MATSUDA: Second. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Well actually discussion now. MS. O’HARA: I’m sorry, but who precisely is Scott Leonard? I see his communication is coming out of the Planning Department. MS. NICHOLSON: He’s a staff. MS. WONG: He’s staff with Planning. 38 MS. O’HARA: He’s a planner with the Planning Department? MR. MATSUDA: Planning Department. MS. O’HARA: I didn’t know who he was. He was never described. MS. WONG: And in meeting with him, and hearing his background, and then the way he laid it out was a lot more impressive than the letter. So, I think we didn’t feel that we could do it justice by just speaking about it. He’s got a lot of credentials behind him. MS. NICHOLSON: Any other discussion? All those in favor? ACTION ON MOTION: All: Aye. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? None. Motion passes. MS. WONG: And I’ll make a motion that the commission send a letter to the mayor in support of immediate implementation of county utility of micro fische, video conferencing and any other multi-media communication in lieu of face-to-face meetings when and where practical. And that the commission in that same letter recommend that boards and commissions immediately evaluate scheduling of their meetings. And this letter will be to the mayor. MOTION:MS. NICHOLSON: Okay, we have a motion on the floor. Do we have a second? MR. MATSUDA: Second. MS. NICHOLSON: Discussion? MR. ARMOUR: I think that video conferencing is a good idea and maybe a suggestion to encourage whenever possible would be a good thing but your point, you’re talking about bombarding the mayor with a letter potentially after our meeting that maybe that we hold off and do an interim letter like a semi report instead of every committee sends a new letter to the mayor or possibly a new letter to the mayor. MS. NICHOLSON: Eileen. MS. O’HARA: I have concerns about sending such a general message to the mayor’s office right now. We just heard from the mayor’s office via Bill Takaba who indicated he felt that we had adequate video conferencing available within the county. I think once we hear from the departments another question to put on the list to department heads as they come through to speak with us is, do they feel that they have adequate access to video conferencing equipment in order to be able to conduct these meetings for their needs? I think we need to understand the issue better before we send a letter because I think what we might receive is a response from the mayor’s office saying we have those capabilities already and we encourage that to happen. But if we then hear from the departments and say no, our staff over in Kona does not have access, or our staff is over here in this building and has to drive across town to make a meeting and it’s not 39 convenient. It would be great if we had video conferencing on site. Then we can make a more specific recommendation to the mayor than having general comment like this. That’s my feeling. MS. WONG: As a matter of discussion, since we have three committees and I see the sense of not coming from each committee. Could we consider that each committee within the next month, before the end of the year, see if there is anything that your committee would like to suggest to, advise to the mayor before the end of the meeting to send a letter? I’m fairly sure that he knows that we have three different committees. And something in process going to the mayor. Would that be more acceptable or compromising? MS. NICHOLSON: I like your idea of sort of an interim thing because I think there is some sense in, geez they really are meeting and doing things and thinking. But I agree with Eileen. I would like to be real specific and not general. So, I guess I would like a little bit more input from people because I feel like I don’t know enough about it. It’s easy to say, yeh, they should be doing more video conferencing. But I’d like to be a little bit more specific on circumstances and if it is a meeting that it’s in somewhere else in Hilo, they can go the meeting just as quickly as they can go to the video conferencing facility. So, does it make sense? In what cases does it make sense? MS. WONG: And responding specifically to that, I’m trying to make it so broad that instead of specific where they have to look at this, a broad recommendation so at least they get the flavor of that we’re working on this and interested in this. Then they get to make their choices. MS. O’HARA: Instead of a recommendation we might put it more in the form of a question. Just so the mayor’s office has to let us know how they perceive the issue. We’ve heard from Bill Takaba that there is video conferencing available and how widely is it available? Does it connect your satellite offices in Waimea and in Kailua-Kona with the departments on this side? Just let them look at it rather than make a recommendation since we don’t have all the information that we need to make a really good recommendation. At least my feeling is we don’t have the information yet to make a really good recommendation. MR. ARMOUR: I think a letter based on the video conferencing to encourage people to use it whenever possible to avoid traveling. I know in the ag industry they are starting a new stage, ag organization. And they do video conferencing with the other islands and it’s readily available. The problem is that they have to find somebody on each island to kind of make sure it’s dialed in correctly because the user don’t know how to us it. You know, like you’re invited to a conference, you show up and somebody has the camera going and all that. So I think that’s the biggest draw back with video conferencing. But local ones, I tend to avoid video conferencing because you can accomplish a lot on breaks and after meetings, before your meetings if those people all work in the same department and you find out a lot more than there under a camera. So, I’d be in favor of the letter encouraging the mayor to send out a letter to the department heads to encourage video conferencing whenever possible. And micro fische part, I would leave off because that’s something that you’re not going to get immediately done. If they have 40 it then they’re probably using it. If they don’t have it in the department they’re not going to get it until the next budget. MS. WONG: I think all of the departments really like the micro fische, that we’ve met with. My mind went back to the other topic, I’m sorry. MR. MATSUDA: Maybe the micro fische area as was mentioned by Gloria, I think like she says, I think it applies to all of the departments so that all of them can use it. It’s just a matter of getting the technology on as far as training and be able to use it. But I like Eileen’s situation where maybe we just pose a question and get the response regarding the micro fische and the video conferencing as an addendum to, an addition of that. Maybe that might be a route that might be more well received than giving a recommendation at this time. But I still like having this interim thing, well, this is what we’re doing, this is what we’re talking about. Now we’re asking them a question. They’re going to give us their answer back. What do they think about these things and maybe by the end of December we’ll get something and we’ll get a better direction. MS. MECKLENBURG: If I could just chime in with a note. Per the Charter, the a commission’s role is to submit report of the findings and recommendations. So I just wanted to put that out there. The objective is one report. MS. NICHOLSON: This isn’t really a report we’re talking about. MS. MECKLENBURG: Right. But I just wanted to you know, I don’t know if you’re sending a series of individual letters would contradict what the intent was that you would come up with one report. But of course you are also able to study and investigate all of the different departments and that sort of thing. I’m merely putting that out there, not coming to any kind of legal conclusion that you can’t or can do it. I just wanted to point that out. MS. O’HARA: Good point. And I think if we couch it as more as an investigation, say we have surveyed and gotten considerable responses from departments and employees with the county and one of the recommendations, or a couple of the recommendations that have risen to the top are to make use of micro fische and make use of more video conferencing. Could the mayor please elaborate on the capabilities of the county currently to hold video conferencing and to what extent is micro fische being used within the county. Let them know that we’re investigating this. We’re looking at this as a possible area of cost savings. MR. MATSUDA: That’s acceptable? MS. NICHOLSON: Cause we are asking for more feedback. I would think it’s totally acceptable. MS. MECKLENBURG: As a point of clarification, micro fische, is that referring to the laser fische system? MR. MATSUDA: Yeah, laser fische. 41 MS. MECKLENBURG: I’m envisioning the old micro fische like at the library. Okay. MS. NICHOLSON: And I must say, I have no idea what micro fische or laser fische is. And so I feel very uncomfortable writing a letter to the mayor even talking about either one because I don’t know what it is. And I am on the technology committee. But I don’t have a clue what it is we’re even talking about. So, I could not support personally such a thing because I need to know more. And I want to hear more from some departments about that. So, I think it’s a little premature because I need to know more. MS. O’HARA: Well I would support a letter asking, couching it as investigating what the county’s capabilities are currently and whether we’re considering expanding it to a countywide plan. I would be supportive of that kind of letter. MS. NICHOLSON: I think what we should do is probably vote on Gloria’s motion that’s on the floor and see whether that passes or not. And if it doesn’t pass maybe we want another motion because her motion includes both of these recommendations. And we’ve really been focusing on just one. So I think we should sort of just clean that up and then maybe refocus. MS. WONG: Then I’d like to amend it? MS. NICHOLSON: Well let’s just go ahead and if it works for you, go ahead and vote for the motion which is on the floor to basically send an advisory letter to the mayor requesting that the county immediately implement micro fische, video conferencing, multi media communication. MS. WONG: Support implementation. MS. NICHOLSON: Support implementation and that the motion also includes recommending that boards and commissions immediately evaluate their meeting schedules. So that is the motion on the floor which we have a second for. Can we go ahead and vote on that and see where we are in that, and we’ll know how to move forward? All in favor vote aye ACTION ON MOTION: All: One. MS. NICHOLSON: Any opposed? Three. MS. NICHOLSON: And you’re abstaining? MR. MATSUDA: I’ll abstain. MS. NICHOLSON: You’re abstaining. Okay. So we have one for. We have three against, and one abstaining. So I will entertain a new motion on either or both of these two. And I think we probably should separate them. The motion we might want to address timing because timing seems to be one of the issues we’re talking about now. MS. O’HARA: Timing of what? 42 MS. NICHOLSON: Do we want to send an interim report to the mayor with issues that come out of the subcommittees? And this is actually going beyond just this committee report so we shouldn’t be talking about it? MS. MECKLENBURG: You could talk about it as it pertains to this item. MR. MATSUDA: It’s pertaining to this item so it’s good. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. MS. WONG: The thing that I brought up for discussion, perhaps we could include all three committees if there is anything that they would like to see happen sooner or give some advisory to the mayor from your particular committee focus. Then wait on sending a letter till the end of the year. MS. O’HARA: I like that idea. MS. NICHOLSON: Are you seconding it? MS. O’HARA: Is that a motion? MS. MECKLENBURG: I don’t think that needs to be a motion. It is kind of outside the report cause it’s generalized, but you can discuss it. MS. WONG: So if that’s generally agreed to, then I would withdraw my motion and wait upon MS. NICHOLSON: There is no motion on the floor so you’re not withdrawing anything. So we’re looking at a new one. MS. O’HARA: I like that idea. MS. WONG: So we would have to make a motion on that? MR. MATSUDA: She said we don’t need a motion. MS. WONG: So mine fell? Mine died. MS. NICHOLSON: Yes. That one died. So now we’re on if you want to propose a new motion that if I’m getting you correctly, we would consider or we have sort of a goal to send a letter, an advisory letter to the mayor or maybe I better not say advisory – a letter to the mayor by the end of the year with questions from all of the committees including these two. Is that sort of what I’m hearing? MS. WONG: And I don’t necessarily need to have the word question in. A letter to the mayor.Some feedback to the mayor about what we’re doing. MS. O’HARA: I think that’s an excellent idea. 43 MR. MATSUDA: You don’t have to be specific. MS. O’HARA: I if we have questions we can include questions. Whatever. I think it’s a good idea. MS. WONG: As a question, would we need to keep this on the agenda somehow so that it can reach till December? MS. NICHOLSON: I think if we’re talking then an agenda item would be the contents of the letter. And so we could then bring this up as one of the things included in the letter. MS. WONG: Okay. MR. MATSUDA: Is that correct? MS. MECKLENBURG: Yeah. I think what you need to do is just the secretary just note things you want to put into the letter, and then when you decide to leave it to that as an action item then you can discuss. MS. NICHOLSON: So we don’t need any kind of motion. MS. O’HARA: Chair, I don’t mean to, please don’t take me as being rude, but we have quite a few items to discuss. MS. NICHOLSON: Yeah. I know we do. It’s our longest meeting yet. Anything else on the committee report dated October 8 meeting of the Operations, Budget, and Consolidation Report? No, if so any other discussion on this report that we’ve been discussing? REPORTS FROM SUBCOMMITTEES MS. NICHOLSON: If not we will move on to agenda item 7. MS. WONG: Oh boy. That’s me. You have a copy of our report that was passed out. MS. NICHOLSON: So remember we’re not discussing now. This is just information. MS. WONG: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: But do we want to discuss it at the next meeting? MS. WONG: Yes. I’ll just give an overview like we did last time. I won’t go through each of the items just to say that we met with four different people and that some of these brought in their stamp. If you have any particular questions we can discuss later. There’s like the previous summary, there’s action items and comments. There is an overall, the last item would be a suggestion that we might especially focus on in our discussion at the next meeting. Would you like me to bullet any of, or highlight any of the, focus on any of the meetings or just let it sit as is? 44 MS. O’HARA: The only thing I would ask Gloria, and it’s just my ignorance, is you might put the position of the of the individual next to it so we know which department we’re talking about without having to reference back. It’s minor. MS. WONG: Okay. MS. NICHOLSON: Could you tell us right now and we can pencil it in cause I haven’t had a chance to read this yet. MS. WONG: Ron Takahashi is HR. Warren Lee is Public Works. Bobby Jean Leithead Todd is Planning. And Nancy Crawford is Finance. MS. O’HARA: Thank you. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay so we will put discussion of this committee report on our next agenda. Next report is Revenue Enhancement and Collections. Ken. MR. ARMOUR: Since Patricia has left, she was going to have…. We’re not as far along as we’d like to be. We divided up all the recommendations and Patricia took the ones from department heads and I took all the employees suggestions and summarized them and we need to schedule a meeting with Bill. I was kind of disappointed that there weren’t more revenue enhancement suggestions from the employees. And after I’d gone through all of the suggestions, I went back and looked whether two of the employees and there was no request from any of the employees for any of that. So we only had like three or four items from the employees and I can pass out a summary sheet if the commission would like that on what I found. But I don’t have Patricia’s. She sent it to me electronically, but I did not print it out because I thought she was going to do it. I sorted it and if it says NO REAC SUGGESTIONS that means no revenue enhancement and collections suggestions. So they had bus fees, collecting all the back revenues, facility fees, housing fees, a couple of police fees, property assessments, vehicle tax, and water usage. So when we meet with Bill, we’re going to look at what departments we want to interview. I think it’s going to be the Property Assessment department. I don’t know the proper title for them. And maybe looking at police fees. That’s still to be discussed. MS. NICHOLSON: So is there anything on this report or the one that you don’t have but Patricia has, that we want to put for discussion at the next meeting? MR. ARMOUR: We talked about that last meeting, and I can’t find the notes, but I thought we’d looked at scheduling a couple of department heads, property tax, and something else for future meetings because we discussed that we couldn’t have them all at one meeting. MS. O’HARA: You mean Treasurer was part of that? MS. NICHOLSON: For presentation to us? 45 MR. ARMOUR: Yes. And so I don’t know if any of those are scheduled or if we finalized that at our next meeting. But that would be more on, I guess we can talk about it now. So did we schedule anybody for future meetings? MS. CARVALHO: No, we only scheduled who came today. So when we MS. NICHOLSON: Talk about the agenda items we can talk about it. But do we want, I guess we can talk about that when we’re talking about the agenda items whether we want to discuss something. Any other discussion on the report of the Revenue Enhancement and Collections? MR. ARMOUR: You can’t discuss it. All we can do is present. MS. MECKLENBURG: No discussion. Presentation from the committee. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Moving on to Technology Recommendations and Adoption. Eileen has our wonderful document. MS. O’HARA: Did everyone get this handout? Marilyn and I had a short meeting this morning before our regular meeting and independently we had agreed to use this matrix spreadsheet to analyze the questionnaire responses that had been sent in both from departments and individuals in the county regarding our subcommittees focus which is technology, recommendations and adoption. So Marilyn logged all the department’s responses identifying which ones had technological issues, what recommendations were, and I did all the employee responses. Missing from this is the code. MS. NICHOLSON: No, it’s on the bottom of the back page. MS. O’HARA: So you see these codes on the side, A,B,C,D and that gives you an idea of whether it relates to Data Systems, energy use in the office, equipment or software/hardware/computer use. So this is the log that we developed. This is good for information and it’s good so we can sort and see how many responses were similar in their recommendations. That gives us a starting place to work from. So that’s as far as we’ve gotten. I think we did have a discussion last meeting about bringing in people from Data Systems and from the departments that have their own independent technologies with Data Systems such as Police, Fire. I think the Water Department was also mentioned. I have to go back to the minutes and see all the departments that were mentioned. And having a dedicated meeting like we did today for contracts to talk to all those people so we get a better understanding of how the county is dealing with technology issues since it doesn’t appear to have an overarching technology plan that is coordinated amongst all the departments. So that was as far as we got as a subcommittee. In the handout, I guess I should speak to it now, I just threw in this Summary of the Cost of Government Commission’s efforts to date, in the few months that we’ve been meeting and some of the theme that we would initially identify, wanting to identify what services the county is actually responsible for providing as a theme for this particular commission. And we’ve looked at some overarching policy issues like the contracting policy, the collections and fees, delinquencies, countywide technology plan and how those relate to the three focus subcommittees that we have formed and are proceeding with, and a list of actions that some of which we’ve accomplished, some 46 of which will be ongoing. So, I just threw that in cause I like to look at things graphically. It helps me look where we’ve been and where we need to go. So that’s our report. MS. NICHOLSON: I think the interesting thing is to see how our various subcommittees are picking up on some of the same things. It doesn’t bother me that some are redundant. It says those are pretty important items that we all feel relate to all of our subcommittees. And certainly video conferencing is one of those. MS. O’HARA: Oh, one more thing to point out, on this spreadsheet, we threw in potential energy savings. This was a throw back to the Green Team’s presentation a couple of meetings ago. Since this is the focus of that in through county committee and whether he’s technology, adoption, technology can help with energy savings. MS. NICHOLSON: Moving along. Can we speed through all this and certainly be out of here by 1:30? Let’s give it a try. DISCUSSION REGARDING APPROACH TO TAKE TO TIMELY ACCOMPLISH MANDATE OF THE COST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION MS. NICHOLSON: Agenda item 8, discussion regarding approach to take to timely accomplish mandate of the Cost of Government Commission. This is just general discussion. How do we think we’re moving along? How do you think our approach is working? Are we missing some things? Comments? MS. WONG: You heard Nancy say today that she appreciated us reaching out and in the meetings that we’ve gone to, there was surprise, appreciation, especially appreciation that they get to say things that are not being recorded. So I think at least the department heads that we’ve met with, number one, I asked them do they know about the Cost of Government recommendations? At least half of them did not know about the recommendations. So when they were informed, they got to appreciate what the recommendations were. And I got to know that they didn’t know. So they couldn’t act on anything if they didn’t know it. So now they know. So now we can kind sort of plug that idea into our, whatever we recommend. I’ve had comments from employees that are friends of mine that, wow we get to say something? They like the idea of being heard. And I think that in my email cover between my committee members on these meetings, I find that it’s been very positive and productive of the discussions we’ve had with the people. And even allowing them to think outside of their day-to-day functions and priorities, what else. So that opens their thinking and I think that’s been a positive step. MS. NICHOLSON: Any other comments? I guess my feeling is I’m concerned that we get really involved in some of the minutia of things. And in so doing we may avoid, maybe avoid isn’t the right word, looking at really big issues and turning off lights or putting out the thermostat one degree is a really good suggestion. But when we first started meeting we were told the county is faced with some very critical financial times and are there entire departments that should be eliminated?Are there programs that should be eliminated? And I guess I’m concerned that we may not tackle some of those big issues. I think that we are the only ones who could really tackle those big issues because no department head is going to say, I think we should eliminate the Hawai‘i 47 County Band, just to use an example. And an elected official is not going to do that either because they’re going to be in hot water if they recommend some of those things. And we’re the only ones who don’t have any really vested interest in this because we’re not part of the political process, and we’re not county employees. So, I guess I’m cautioning that I’m afraid that we might get so involved in some of these other little items that we’re not thinking big and bold and being big and bold in making some recommendations that will create some waves which we are the only ones. I really think we have a responsibility to create those waves if we see that there is something that maybe the county is doing now and should not be doing. So, I’d like to make sure that we sort of keep the bigger picture in mind while we continue to look at some of these other issues that we’re looking at because if the county is really faced with serious financial problems and all they can really come up with is raise taxes, cause that’s politically expedient and they can do that, then we failed in our mission as the Cost of Government Commission. We’re merely looking more boldly and without an agenda at what the county could do, either short term or long term. It’s not really a different way of perceiving it. It’s just let’s continue to look at some, or start to look at some really big issues and try to figure out how we might tackle some of those bigger recommendations because we can talk to Parks and Recreation and of course they’re not going to say, eliminate the Panaewa Zoo. Not that I support that. But they wouldn’t say that. Who would say that? MS. WONG: Well let me tell you, I’ve had, and you’ll see in the report there’s been a suggestion to eliminate some committees, some boards. We’ve pulled out on line, commissions and boards, all of them, and said which ones can we combine? Which ones can we delete? And Bill set with us and went through the process. No this one has to stay and some were untouchable. And some can be combined. And then we went back to oh, maybe they don’t have to meet monthly. Maybe they can meet quarterly. So, I totally agree with you that we can and who else would be. But I was surprised when, for example, Bobby Jean Leithead Todd said, why do we have to, and this is what I was trying to say earlier, why do we have to a screening and an action committee when the screening, yes the public needs to input, but they should trust us to implement what they just told us to do, not have another committee to tell us what to do when we’re doing it, which loads us down. So there’s even that point. And I try and be sensitive to you know, is that really necessary? But on the bigger picture, why is there legislative audit and us? Legislative audit comes at the very end when, to find the mistakes, and we’re supposed to be at the beginning on the planning and where is the in between? So let’s look at the functional processes that are necessary and what is not necessary. But then we need to get the County Council people and so there’s all these points that I’ve been trying to really look at the bigger picture, but still handle the little things first to see if, test it out. Will this be acceptable? And from the beginning I’ve heard comments from people saying to me, you folks aren’t going to do anything, aren’t going to be able to accomplish anything, which then got my dander up. I want to accomplish something. And that’s why I want to share with all the members, when we go to meeting so that you get the information although you can’t meet with everyone, but we share information between ourselves in the meetings so we have the big picture not only our little committee meetings, what was said in here that we can pull in all the information. And it would be nice if we are able to help our community. 48 MS. NICHOLSON: Sometimes if you propose a lot of really big bold things and people go no way, but we can take these smaller ones. Whereas if you just do a bunch of smaller ones it’s like it’s easy to go no. But then I also keep in mind what one, we got a communication from one County Council person who said we shouldn’t be cutting anything. We should be getting more revenue in. Which sort of leads me to wonder Ken, because we didn’t do that revenue enhancement piece with the employees, should we go back and try to do that? Do you think that’s a good thing to try to get or maybe you and Patricia should talk about it? MR. ARMOUR: I’ll talk to her and Bill about it. I was thinking about that whether we should send another letter out or combine it with another letter for additional suggestions and thanking everybody for just the suggestions that they’ve already given us, but we’re still looking for more suggestions. MS. NICHOLSON: I kind of like that. Cause I think the suggestions from employees were really interesting and really sort of across the board and they didn’t necessarily just do things that were in their departments. They were thinking a little larger than what we got from the departments because that was specific to departments. MR. ARMOUR: I was impressed by most of them because it was most of the respondent, I thought were helpful. There were a couple that were just looking out for the pet peeves, but most of them were helpful suggestions. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, why don’t you and Patricia talk about that. The other issue that came up actually among the employee responses, and I’m not sure how we could cover it, is several people said, get rid of the county employees who aren’t doing anything. I don’t know how we would tackle that. Well, we’re going to run into the union with probably lots of our suggestions. But that’s really not our job to have to worry about how the union does it. We're putting it out there, but is there a way we can get to some of this stuff that we’re not covering in our committees? MS. WONG: I don’t understand the question. MS. NICHOLSON: Well for instance, several of the employees had said we need to get rid of the people, the county employees who aren’t doing anything. I don’t know quite how to tackle that. But I don’t know if it would come up in any of our subcommittees. Is there a way we can get it, say either that issue or other issues that come up that really don’t fit into any of our existing categories? Or some of these larger issues like are there things that should just go away? Be eliminated. How do we continue to keep those things on the table? MS. WONG: I kind of see that as a responsibility of HR and department heads. And I look at our function more as empowering, giving direction or empowering, not actually getting to that point I guess. MS. NICHOLSON: Well then maybe we’re informing people of some of this feedback and that’s really our method is saying, well we got employees saying that there’s some, that we’re here. Just so you know. This is coming from employees themselves. 49 MS. O’HARA: And again this is a policy issue because all employees are subject to reviews, performance reviews. And even if they’re a union employee, if they’re not meeting their performance goals, there are actions that have to be taken. So, it may be that as a policy, the bar is set too low, and that’s something that the county has to decide how efficient they want their employees to be, and hold everybody to the same standard. So, it may be a policy recommendation not just a union issue. MS. WONG: Often times the annual reviews are not conducted. MS. O’HARA: No. Exactly. And they’re not conducted or they’re conducted in a very flim flam manner and therefore maybe that’s something that we as a commission can have a direct recommendation over union issues are a little bit outside of our purview. It’s not something that the county can control. MS. NICHOLSON: But it’s something we bring up if have the HR person here. MS. WONG: Let me bring up this thought from previously. In talking with Nancy Crawford, she got copies of all the recommendations. Should we be sending copies to, all of the responses, to all the department heads then? MS. O’HARA: Recommendations of what? MS. WONG: No. I’m sorry. Not recommendations. The responses. Is that too much? MS. NICHOLSON: I think we need to make some sense of them first. MS. O’HARA: We’ve got a lot on our desk to review. That would be a lot to go through. MS. WONG: Then how about just HR getting those responses? MS. O’HARA: I don’t think it’s relevant to their job to review this and apply it. It really is relevant to our questions to these individuals. MS. WONG: They might be able to develop policy and training to prevent those situations. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, to me that would be part of our report and recommendations to HR based on the feedback we’ve gotten. MS. WONG: Okay. MS. O’HARA: I see our role is something of a filter. We don’t want to just put all of that information we’re retained and put it on their desk. We want to make sense of it and put it together in a form of recommendations or additional questions. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Any other discussion on item 8, our approach? 50 MS. WONG: We’ve brought this up before and I’m not pushing it this time. I just want to keep it on the table of eventually getting input from the public. MS. NICHOLSON: Do we want to figure out a way to ask the public for their thoughts on county cost saving or MS. O’HARA: I think I’ve said my opinion on this one several times. And it is that until we have draft recommendations in the form of the direct report or something, I don’t know that we want to invite public response. What are they responding to? They need something specific to respond to. And I feel that if we were able to get a draft report together by April or May, this would be an excellent thing to do, is to invite the public’s response to this specific recommendations that this commission makes. To just invite public input, on what? You’re collecting a lot of information but what are you intending to do with it and how can it be applied? That public’s knowledge of internal operations is not as great as the employees of the county and the department heads that we’re already surveying and sending out questionnaires to. So what additional information might we get from the public at this point we may take this commission off in any number of different directions. That’s what I see the potential of happening. Whereas if we have some draft recommendations and we can share those with the public, then we can get feedback, this is a good idea. Or whatever the public wants to respond. But I think it would be better if we had something specific before we go and asking public responses. MS. NICHOLSON: Any more discussion? This is a standing agenda item, so we’re talking about it again and again. DISCUSSION REGARDING FUTURE MEETING DATES MS. NICHOLSON: All right. Discussion regarding future meeting dates. I know at the last meeting you set the November dates. Wednesday, November 3, and Wednesday, November 17. I don’t think you went into December. MS. WONG: We did December. MS. NICHOLSON: You did December. So, it’s one meeting on December 10? MS. WONG: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: And that will be our only meeting for December? MS. WONG: Yes. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Do you want to move into January at this time? MS. WONG: At our last meeting, I think MS. O’HARA: I think we decided to wait for you to come back. MS. WONG: I think we were waiting for November or something. 51 MS. NICHOLSON: So are we still okay though with January 14 and 28? Or did we have problems with those dates? MS. WONG: We didn’t even address it. We just addressed till December. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Let’s just talk about January really quickly right now. th MR. ARMOUR: I won’t be here for the 28. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, hopefully everyone else could be. So for now, we will stick with January 14 and 28. Should we be bold and move into February? February dates thth of the 11 and 25 look all right for people? At the moment? Again we’ll be revisiting these. th MS. O’HARA: I hope to be gone on the 11. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. For now let’s stick with the dates that we have through February. ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON NEXT AGENDA MS. NICHOLSON: Okay. Items to be placed on the next agenda. I think at the moment, in addition to our standard agenda items we will want to discuss the report from Operations, Budget and Consolidation Committee that you handed out today. That’s an agenda item. What our committee passed out, we don’t really need to discuss. We’ll have another report probably perhaps next time. Ken did you want to discuss what we passed out today? MR. ARMOUR: No, but we might change number six on today’s agenda just to discuss subcommittee reports just in case something comes up and somebody has a question about it. MS. NICHOLSON: Can we do that? MS. O’HARA: Can we just make it general? MS. NICHOLSON: Can we, what is currently item 6, can we just put that we want discussion of the subcommittee, any subcommittee reports that were passed out at today’s meeting? Or do we have to name them specifically? MS. MECKLENBURG: You have problem naming them specifically? Cause there were three from today, right? MS. NICHOLSON: But they don’t necessarily warrant any discussion. MS. MECKLENBURG: If there is no discussion you can skip through them. MS. NICHOLSON: So we can just list them all? 52 MS. O’HARA: Yeah. Just list them all and if there’s no discussion we can just move on. MS. WONG: In that case, I think our committee will talk to your committee. MS. O’HARA: I think it’s good to leave them all in just in case. MS. NICHOLSON: Okay so the big thing that we need to discuss is who do we invite? And do we maybe want to have a back up in case who we invite can’t come? MS. WONG: I think at the last meeting we said we’d invite the department representative and if they can’t come they choose someone. MS. O’HARA: But we had a motion that we passed earlier that we invite Scott Leonard. MS. NICHOLSON: But not necessarily at the next meeting. MS. O’HARA: Well, I was just reviewing what we had. We also had talked at the last meeting in terms of the revenue enhancement and collections committee of inviting the county Treasurer, the Real Property Tax Director and DEM. The last two because those departments have significant delinquencies in terms of budget so that was what we discussed at our last meeting. That was Bill Takaba’s suggestion. MS. NICHOLSON: So what’s your pleasure now that we have another meeting under our belt? And boy the minutes are going to be really long for this meeting. MR. ARMOUR: I’d like Real Property. MS. NICHOLSON: Real Property. What do you guys think? You want Real Property? Will that be helpful for you too? MS. O’HARA: I think we should invite all three if we’re going to invite one. This is a discussion on revenues and collections. Kind of like today where we invited everyone that dealt with contracts. MS. NICHOLSON: What do you think, Ken? MR. ARMOUR: That would be fine. I was just trying to get it where we have time to talk to everybody and in time for everybody in one meeting. I don’t think they’ll all be joint presentations, do you. MS. O’HARA: They probably won’t but they may. Who knows? We don’t know how these people team up. MS. NICHOLSON: So you’re talking about Real Property Tax Division, MS. O’HARA: DEM, Department of Environmental Management has significant delinquencies on sewer fees. 53 MS. WONG: And would you want to bring Nancy Crawford back in again to speak on that topic or Deanna? MS. O’HARA: I think Bill suggested the Treasurer, whose name is MS. NICHOLSON: It seems like DEM is kind of a separate issue. I don’t see that as a revenue enhancement. It’s really talking about what’s their problem with their collections, but MS. O’HARA: Well, it’s a technology problem in my opinion, so it actually has ties for our committee. MS. WONG: But not maybe at the same time. MS. O’HARA: What we’ve been discussing was trying to bring in blocks of county employees that all deal with the same issue. If we just bring in Data Systems, we’re only going to hear about their role in purchasing computers for the divisions that they serve. They do not serve the Police Station, they do not serve Fire, they do not serve Civil Defense, they do not serve Prosecutors Office, so we’re not going to hear about the overall data issues with the county. Same with the revenue enhancement and collections. We’re not going to hear if we just go to one department to hear what their issues are. We’re not going the hear overarching issues. MS. NICHOLSON: Mike Okumoto. MS. O’HARA: Mike Sakamoto is the Treasurer? MS. NICHOLSON: Mike Okumoto. MS. O’HARA: So that was Bill’s suggestion was to bring those three people in together to talk about revenue enhancements and collections. MS. NICHOLSON: What’s your pleasure? Your Property Tax Division, Treasurer, and Department of Environmental Management? MS. WONG: Seems like Scott Leonard talked on some income, touching upon these areas. MS. O’HARA: He did in his report. He touched upon the delinquencies in the tax office at Real Property. MS. NICHOLSON: Should we add him to the list. Or would it be strange to have an employee speaking with the department heads? MS. WONG: I would hope not. MS. O’HARA: No, it shouldn’t be at all strange. 54 MR. MATSUDA: Should we have him first? Just put him first? No, he would have to stick around. MS. WONG: That’s sensitive to title, so I don’t think they should mind if they’re all in the same room. MS. O’HARA: I think it’s great because Scott has a lot of revenue enhancement recommendations. MR. MATSUDA: Yeah. MS. WONG: There’s another name that came up at the last meeting, Molly Lugo. MS. MECKLENBURG : She’s a Deputy Corporation Counsel from our office who handles collections that make it to our office. MS. O’HARA: Just for your office or in the county? MS. MECKLENBURG : They get referred from other departments. MS. WONG: All collections. MS. O’HARA: So maybe we should have her like we had Craig Masuda here today. MS. NICHOLSON: So we’re up to five. We’re already at a very long meeting. Is that your pleasure? So we have two specific individuals and three departments. MS. WONG: Deanna, seems like Deanna, although she’s with Finance, seems like when I talked about different departments, she seemed to know what was going on in their money areas. And she was quicker to respond then Nancy, not, I think Nancy certainly knows, but she’s good at putting out information. MS. NICHOLSON: I don’t know these people, so I don’t know if this is a MS. WONG: And she makes it, when I met with them, she made it simple to understand. You know when I said, what is the priority, and I said who are your customers and how do you satisfy them? She said my customers are all the department heads. You want to satisfy them, you give it to them fast. And I said how do you give it them fast? IT. And I thought I can understand that. Make it simple to understand. That’s why I kind of brought her name up. MS. O’HARA: Deanna is the Deputy Director of Finance. MS. NICHOLSON: So do you want to add her? So we have six. Seems like kind of a lot to me. MR. ARMOUR: I think if you have that many I don’t think we’re going to get much detail. 55 MS. NICHOLSON: I don’t either. I’d rather split them up either at two different times so we finish with some category and then that person can leave and other people come in. Or a different meeting? But with only one December meeting, we’re like going to be running out of time here really soon. MS. O’HARA: Okay so who have we talked about? Treasurer? MS. NICHOLSON: We talked about Deanna, whose last name I don’t know, from Finance, Deputy Director of Finance. Molly Lugo, from Corporation Counsel. Scott Leonard from Planning Department. Real Property Tax Division. The Treasurer, Mike Okumoto, and Department of Environmental Management. Is there a way to group by topic or category? Because remember we agreed we wanted to ask them all and let them know in advance when we invited them. Oh, about purchasing and contract. MS. O’HARA: I feel that Scott Leonard is really speaking to his recommendations as an employee so it’s a little different than the rest of the people who are being asked to speak directly to revenue enhancement and collections, delinquencies. So, I think it would be great to have him come speak and if next meeting works out, but I think he needs to be a separate agenda item because he’s speaking to his recommendations and they’re great recommendations, and they have to do with revenue enhancement. So, it would be okay to have him, but I don’t think he’s part of that group in terms of a team effort. MS. NICHOLSON: Could we put him on the agenda for the following meeting? And we’ll talk about the rest of at the following meeting. MS. O’HARA: How would you want to do it, that would work out too? MS. WONG: And let me just ask, do you think Department of Environmental Management is consistent with the other speakers? MS. O’HARA: Yes. MS. WONG: Okay. MS. O’HARA: It’s consistent with Real Property Tax Division. The things we’re looking at are the fees and the delinquencies for those two departments because both of them have significant issues with that. MS. NICHOLSON: If we’re having Molly Lugo to that, it will fit in. Okay, so right now we’re looking at Scott Leonard being at the second Wednesday meeting that we have in November and inviting the rest of these people for the first Wednesday meeting of November. And we do want to give them some direction on what the Cost of Government Commission does and what are subcommittees are, and we did want to ask them specifically about issues they may have with purchasing contracts. Are there other specific things we want to sort of forewarn them about so that they could target their remarks over the letter for us? MS. WONG: Revenue enhancement and collections. 56 MS. NICHOLSON: That’s sort of the opinion, yes. So maybe we do want to let them know that that’s one of the subcommittees but maybe we also want them to particularly address revenue enhancement and collections. And I assume that you guys will take care of inviting those people? Cause we haven’t been inviting them. MS. CARVALHO: Well, the last one Bill invited. Did you want me to ask if he would invite them again? MS. NICHOLSON: Yes. Since he left early, he should do that. MS. O’HARA: Just so the departments know what our questions are, that we’re looking at revenue enhancement and collections because that might involve sending a particular employee rather than the director. MS. MECKLENBURG: And with these people, it’s mostly collections, is that correct? MS. NICHOLSON: Yes. MR. MATSUDA: Revenue. MS. MECKLENBURG: But kind of ends up being the same thing as opposed to proactive revenue generation, it’s more collections. MS. NICHOLSON: Well, actually I would love them to talk proactive. MS. O’HARA: Proactive, I think is Scott Leonard’s discussion. MR. ARMOUR: It’s a little bit more than just collections. MS. WONG: And are you saying that collections is different from delinquencies? Or is that the same? MS. O’HARA: No, it’s the same. It’s the flip side of the coin. MS. NICHOLSON: Any other discussions on agenda items for the next meeting? MS. O’HARA: Not for the next meeting and since we’ve already put something on the agenda for November 17, I would just like to bring it to our attention that at some point, maybe it will be the December meeting, we would like to get a group of people in to talked about the technology issues with the county, the Data Systems and different communication systems of the different departments. MS. NICHOLSON: We might even be able to do that in November. I’ll just separate them. 57 ANNOUNCEMENTS MS. NICHOLSON: On to Announcements. The next meeting of the Cost of Government Commission will be held on November 3, at 10:00 a.m. in this conference room 101 Aupuni Street, Suite 230, Hilo, Hawai‘i, 96720. ADJOURNMENT MS. NICHOLSON: Our meeting is adjourned. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:35 PM Submitted by: Sandra Arriola 58