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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-07-20 Cost of Government Commission MinutesCOST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION County of Hawaii MINUTES July 20, 2006 — 10:00 a.m. Department of Liquor Control — Conference Room 101 Aupuni Street, Suite 230 Hilo, Hawaii 96720 Commission members Myles Y. Miyasato, Chair present: Wayne T. Joseph, Vice Chair Marilyn L. Nicholson, Commissioner Patricia Provalenko, Commissioner Melvyn K. Sakaguchi, Commissioner Barbara R. Stremski, Commissioner Also present: Stanley Nakasone, Division Head (Highway Maintenance Division) Brian Kajikawa, Division Head (Building Division) Katherine A. Garson, Deputy Corporation Counsel Mary E. Crosson, Secretary 1. CALL TO ORDER The Chair called the meeting to order at 10:03 a.m. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM JULY 6, 2006 MEETING Motion and Vote: Ms. Nicholson moved to approve the minutes of July 6, 2006. Ms. Stremski seconded the motion, and all members except for Mr. Joseph voted aye. Mr. Joseph abstained, as he was not present at the meeting on July 6, 2006. 3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC No members of the public were present. 4. APPROVAL OF ADDENDUM AND /OR SUPPLEMENTAL AGENDA There was no addendum or supplemental agenda. 5. PRESENTATION AND QUESTION /ANSWER SESSION BY THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS, HIGHWAY MAINTENANCE DIVISION Stanley Nakasone, Division Head for the Highway Maintenance Division of the Department of Public Works introduced himself. He stated that his answers to the COGC's letter were incorporated in Jiro Sumada's response on behalf of the Department of Public Works. Mr. Nakasone said he has worked for the County of Hawaii for 35 years and that his title is now Superintendent of Highways. He said the County has about 1,000 miles of roads to maintain, with his Division having about 180 employees and 30 temporary positions. Their budget is about $11 million per year, not including $2.5 million for resurfacing roads annually. The Chair asked Mr. Nakasone how many men it takes, per mile, to maintain the roads. Mr. Nakasone explained that when he became superintendent, around 1995, there was no standard of performance, so he did not know what he could expect of employees. He visited the different counties and learned that none of them did. As a result, he worked on developing his Division's own standard of performance, and it amounts to five miles per employee, both sides of the road, and includes the maintenance and grass cutting work. The Highway Division has programs, including paving, resurfacing, and shoulder maintenance programs. These programs do not necessarily start and end. The grass cutting has a cycle and is done by the employees of that district. They start at one end and finish at the other. They do the same with herbiciding, patching, and shouldering. There is only one County paver, so the paving is scheduled. The Chair said that the work priority then, to clarify, was on damaged areas or areas needing improvement, rather than on a cyclical basis. Mr. Nakasone said that in addition to the regular work, they also receive work orders and requests and have emergencies, which interrupt the regular schedule. Sometimes a grass cutter may start his area but get called to work elsewhere on an emergency. By the time he returns to his area, he may need to figure out whether to start over or continue where he left off. The Chair said that he went to yesterday's County Council meeting and noted that many issues were hitting the media, particularly on the subject of splitting the island into east and west. He asked Mr. Nakasone whether he felt it would be good to have one superintendent in charge of East Hawaii and another in charge of West Hawaii, or whether they would have a harder time functioning. Mr. Nakasone said that when there is top- heaviness, there is confusion. In his opinion, the Department is not big enough to have two sections. Though they could use assistance, the County is one entity and should not be separated into east and west. Doing so would make people territorial. Employees could be working for different supervisors, and production could be affected. He does not believe they are ready for this. Mr. Joseph asked whether the Highway Division was fully staffed at 180 employees, and Mr. Nakasone said they were fully staffed for what they are currently assigned to do, but if the County has to take on the "roads in limbo," they will need to increase staff. He explained that the roads in limbo are roads which neither the State nor County claim. These roads are in bad shape, and taking them over will require more equipment, material, and employees. He said more employees are always needed, but you need to be realistic and do the best you can with what you have. If you always think you need more employees, then you stop thinking about how to better yourself. So he does not worry about needing more employees. Rather, he looks at what he has and thinks about how they could do better. If a grass cutter has a performance standard of cutting so many miles of grass, he will see if that can be increased. 2 Mr. Joseph asked whether all 180 positions were filled or if there were vacancies. Mr. Nakasone said that they do have vacancies, but by the end of the year they should be able to fill them. They also anticipate about three retirements at the end of the year. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether the Highway Division contracts with private contractors or vendors to do some of the work, or whether he has the authority to do so. He mentioned as an example that in Honolulu, the government was contracting with private companies to take care of the brush and grass cutting. Mr. Nakasone said he has the authority to request this, but has not done so. He stated he believes his Division is doing a good job and that their laborers are not paid very high, which saves on costs. The workers are required to cut at least five to six miles per day, both sides. He said that to be honest, he had not thought about contracting out and believes they are doing an okay job. He said he feels this because when he first became superintendent, it would take them eight to ten weeks to complete a district. Their goal is now four to five weeks, and they are about there. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether a grass cutter who lives in Hilo has to travel to Ka'u to cut grass, and Mr. Nakasone explained that each district has its own crew. Certain specialized employees may need to travel to complete a project, but each district has its own crew sufficient to do the regular maintenance. There is a baseyard in each district. Mr. Sakaguchi asked why both the State and County have highway maintenance sections and whether just one organization could maintain the highways. Mr. Nakasone said that in his opinion, he believes there is a lot of redundancy of work in having both. As an example, both the State and County have baseyards in Waimea, which sit next to each other. The baseyards in Hamakua and Ka`u also are close to each other. About four years ago, this issue came up in the legislature. He went to the legislature and suggested that the Big Island be the first to try having the State merge into the County. (He said he did not want the County to merge into the State because of difficulties in getting approval from Oahu for things that need to be done on the Big Island.) However, in his opinion this issue should be addressed in the future because of the redundancy of work. He explained that if the County should take over, they would need to learn about federal guidelines and standards so that they could request federal assistance if a road is in the "T" program. He said that the federal standards are much higher than County and State requirements for the maintenance of roads. If the County should take over the roads, they would need to learn these federal procedures, and he would like to see that. Mr. Sakaguchi said the public always wonders why both the State and County maintain roads. Mr. Nakasone said that in his opinion, the counties should take over the maintenance of roads, and the Big Island is a prime place to start. He believes it would save money. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether Mr. Nakasone had recently been to any conference or workshop related to his work. Mr. Nakasone said that about six years ago, when he was new at the job, he visited the other counties to compare things. The idea came to him that it would be good to have a superintendents conference, where all the State and County superintendents could meet. After discussing this with his various counterparts, they did have a superintendents - overseers conference. The idea was to make it a working conference where they shared ideas and thoughts on how to make things better. This conference is now held once a year. 3 Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether Mr. Nakasone had ever attended a conference out of the State. Mr. Nakasone said he has gone to California, Arizona, Utah, and Las Vegas. He said that when he goes on vacation, he visits highway maintenance agencies there. Mr. Sakaguchi commented that the travel was at Mr. Nakasone's own expense, then, and done on his vacation time. He explained that the COGC wondered why the County does not invest more money in staff development and giving employees the chance to check out other states and bring back ideas. Mr. Nakasone said that he did go to Arizona and Las Vegas on business and that he went to FEMA training in Maryland. He agreed that training is needed, but a problem is that there has to be a report system. If he sends employees to Oahu or Arizona, for example, when they return they have to prepare a written report of what they learned. He then makes sure that it is incorporated into their work. Otherwise, it was just a trip. They would need to go with purpose and to see what could be gained. Ms. Nicholson said that some of the responses the COGC received indicated that it might be good to consider getting a contractor to do island -wide pothole patching. She asked Mr. Nakasone whether he agreed with this, or felt his own people were the best to handle this. Mr. Nakasone explained that they recently ordered equipment, called "co- planing." In the past when they patched holes, they just plopped the asphalt in and the cars would run over it, and it was not a good system. So equipment was purchased for each district, and it is hoped this procedure will be an improvement. It is their responsibility to try different things. He said there is nothing wrong with contracting out, but if it is the County's job to repair potholes, they should make the effort to do so first. Ms. Nicholson asked whether or not the COGC should put forth, then, the contracting out as a recommendation on his behalf. Mr. Nakasone stated that he feels they can do better and should first try to make it more efficient and effective. Ms. Nicholson asked Mr. Nakasone how he felt about going to a ten -hour work day, four days per week. He responded that he approached the union about doing this eight years ago. He wanted to do it on a trial basis. The idea was acceptable to the unions, but there was a problem involving holidays which fell on a Monday or a Friday. They could not come to an understanding on this. He said some employees would have to work Monday through Thursday, and the others Tuesday through Friday. If a holiday fell on a Friday, what would happen to the employees who worked Monday through Thursday —how would they receive the holiday? They never did resolve the issue. However, the idea was well accepted by the unions, and he feels they should look into this again. He believes the positives would be more than the negatives. Ms. Nicholson asked whether the crews would be adequate to cover the County's needs in an emergency if they went to that schedule, since they are also divided into districts. Mr. Nakasone said that whenever there is an emergency, they normally bring out everyone who will be needed in order to cope. He still feels they would benefit by going to the four -day work week. Saturdays and Sundays would still be free, and they would still have employees working on Mondays and Fridays. Ms. Nicholson asked whether the Highway Division encounters a lot of overtime. Mr. Nakasone said their overtime is planned and in the budget. The resurfacing requires a lot of overtime, but it is also planned out. They also try their best to anticipate emergencies and plan rd accordingly. Some years have many emergencies, and some years very few. This year, for example, they did not anticipate having 21 straight days of rain. Mr. Sakaguchi asked what would happen if there was a big emergency like a hurricane, since they have limited resources. Mr. Nakasone said they have a plan. Mr. Sakaguchi asked where the money was. Mr. Nakasone said his Division has about $500,000 set aside for emergencies. They learned to do this as a result of the flooding in Ka`u in 2000. At that time they did not have a contingency fund but were fortunate that it happened in September, as their new budget started in July. When there is a big emergency, you also need to go to the federal government for disaster reimbursement. They established the fund to help pay expenses in case of an emergency. Mr. Sakaguchi asked how Mr. Nakasone's employees felt about the four -day work week. Mr. Nakasone said they took a poll and it was liked. However, they have some new employees now and would need to poll them again. Mr. Joseph asked what the current work hours of employees are, and Mr. Nakasone said from 6:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. Mr. Joseph asked whether there were any provisions to do resurfacing at night, and Mr. Nakasone said they did Palani Road in Kona at night. If they were to have a new crew, the work hours and schedules would need to be changed, and the union consulted. They would need to be very careful, because if it rained, the workers would not be able to do regular maintenance. Safety is also a concern at night. If they were to go to night resurfacing, they would need to be sure of the weather. They would not be able to come back during the day time, as maintenance would be scheduled during the day. A lot of factors and variables would need to be considered in the planning. However, he felt it was possible. Mr. Joseph said he was thinking about traffic and congestion and doing the resurfacing during the off -peak hours. He said if they went to the ten -hour workday, they would hit the peak driving schedules, whereas with the current eight -hour day, they finish work before the rush hour. Mr. Nakasone said there is both good and bad on the issue. It tends to be after 3:00 p.m. when they are called out for an accident and need to clean up the oil, glass, or debris on the road. When the ten -hour day was presented to the union, the plan was to do it on a six -month trial basis. One can only guess at how it will actually work, but you will not know the impact unless you try it. Mr. Joseph asked who was responsible for the maintenance of the federal highways on the island. Mr. Nakasone said the federal people come and evaluate the roads and determine what roads could belong to their "T" program, which makes them eligible for federal assistance. Of the 1,000 miles of road the County maintains, about 170 miles qualify for the "T" program. Mr. Joseph asked whether the federal government pays for the maintenance of the roads in the "T" program, and Mr. Nakasone said no. The federal government will identify the roads they believe could be under their program. It is then up to the states and the counties to lobby if they want money from the federal government. They need to sell themselves and show they need the money. Every state lobbies for this money. 5 Mr. Joseph asked who writes the grants for Highway Maintenance, and Mr. Nakasone said they have engineers in Public Works who do this. Mr. Joseph asked whether Mr. Nakasone lobbies or puts in a request for the maintenance of more roads, and Mr. Nakasone said he puts in a CIP request and it goes to Engineering. Each division has projects. Mr. Joseph asked whether it would be more efficient to consolidate the State highways with the County than to lobby and try for grants. Mr. Nakasone said he believes in home rule and that it should come under the County. Mr. Sakaguchi asked how many miles of roadway the State has here, and Mr. Nakasone answered 330. The Chair asked whether it would be helpful to the Highway Division to have a grant writer, someone specific to help the engineers, and mentioned that other departments brought up the issue of having in -house grant writers, or hiring out someone designated to write grants. Mr. Nakasone said that a grant can only be requested during a certain window of time. He said that in his opinion, you cannot be just a grant writer, because what would you do the rest of the time? Would you just sit and wait for the deadlines on the grants to see if you get them or not? He felt they shouldn't specifically have a grant writer, but possibly a specialist. He would like to believe that an engineer could do this. He used to work closely with some engineers, who are now retired, who used to do grant writing and engineering. The Chair said that the Solid Waste Division had a strong request for a grant writer and said that not all grants have a timeline. He said they were looking at having a grant writer for the County itself, for all the departments, and they just wondered whether Mr. Nakasone concurred with the other departments about having an in -house grant writer. Mr. Sakaguchi said there was a concern that the County may need someone to research getting money from sources which the County would otherwise not know about. Mr. Nakasone said that in his opinion, the County would be better off contracting out the grant writing, because if the writer didn't do a good job, the County could use someone else rather than be stuck with an inefficient employee. The Chair commented that a lot of people blame the County for the potholes in the roads, when some of the holes are in State roads. Mr. Nakasone said that the resurfacing program is helping out his division greatly. The Chair mentioned that there have been many meetings all around the island regarding "roads in limbo" and that while he sympathizes with people living on those roads, they also brought their property knowing the condition of the roads. He asked Mr. Nakasone how, if the County has to take over those roads, it would be worked into their budget. Mr. Nakasone said that they met with realtors several years ago about the problem with people buying homes and then asking the County to fix the road. The Highway Division 31 developed a form that realtors need to submit to buyers, with information about whether the road is maintained by the County, so the buyers will know about it in advance. Mr. Nakasone also said he prepared an estimate on what maintaining the roads in limbo will cost. He does not know if the Council has reviewed the information yet. However, his Division is preparing themselves for the prospect of taking over the roads in limbo and buying equipment. They will need to spend money to develop the roads in limbo. The Chair asked whether it made sense to Mr. Nakasone to consolidate the Highway Division into the Traffic Division. Mr. Nakasone said if you look at it on paper, it seems to make sense. However, he does not feel they should pay someone more money to oversee them in a system that is not broken. It might work to share clerical resources, but the functions of the two divisions are very different. Mr. Joseph asked whether anyone in the Highway Division is assigned the regular use of a County vehicle, and he said that he and the five overseers are. The cars are needed to respond in emergencies. They also have to carry cell phones and pagers. If they have to use the equipment on their non -work time, they get stand -by pay. The commissioners had no further questions, and Mr. Nakasone said he had one: Why was he there? The Chair explained that it is the COGC's task to evaluate as many departments as they can, the whole County if possible, so they can make suggestions to the Mayor or the Council on what would make the various departments more efficient. The COGC is trying to determine how to better the efficiency of the County, which is why they asked the departments for suggestions. Mr. Nakasone said he is the wrong guy to ask. If he is given a budget, he will work within the budget. He sometimes will make sacrifices for the following year. He says he feels responsible for his employees and wants the best for them. He wants them to feel they are doing something good that will benefit their family and friends. He said that whenever a new mayor takes office, they may go back a couple of rungs on the ladder, or they may go up a few rungs with another mayor. He sometimes feels the managing director should not be an appointed position. The job should be to make sure the County functions as it should. Performance needs to be extended. He would like to see, in all divisions, a standard of performance. His division has a standard of performance for everything they do. Some divisions only do six or seven projects during the year, yet they ask for more employees. Because you ask for new employees, you should have a standard. There needs to be a level you have to try to reach. If an employee is not doing his job, why hire another one to help? The one who is not doing the job should be checked out. There should be standards for all employees so that no matter who becomes mayor, the standard won't go backwards. Mr. Nakasone said the managing director should have that position. Each department has a director and a deputy director, and the deputy should be a civil servant. This would keep the standard of performance there. It is not good when both have to step down when a mayor leaves, as two more people have to come in and learn the job all over again. By the time they learn it, it is their turn to step down. He believes deputy directors and managing directors should be in the system. There should be standards of performance for everyone, no matter who becomes mayor. 7 Mr. Nakasone said that when he first took over as superintendent, the resurfacing program was new and faced a lot of much resistance. The first year they only resurfaced one or two miles for the whole County. Today they do 35 to 40 miles a year. It took five years to train, to change attitudes, and to set performance standards. They had to fight the unions and bring in overseers from outside. He did not realize it would take five years for the County to learn about and implement this program. There are some people who resist stepping out of the box or being told to do better, and the first thing they will do is go to the union. If there were a managing director who was not involved in politics, and that person had a desire from within, he /she could get division chiefs to produce. The Highway Division is more than 50% of the Public Works Department, so he knows it can work. He would like to see some divisions step up, but someone needs to give them standards of performance. Ms. Nicholson asked Mr. Nakasone whether it would be helpful in his Division if the employees had incentives. She did not know what form an incentive could take, whether it would be a cash bonus, or temporary raise, or perhaps an extra day off —but some way of rewarding the employees who do an outstanding job. Mr. Nakasone said that the majority of their employees work hard, although there is that percentage that does not. Sometimes incentives might work, but he feels that telling an employee thanks for doing a good job, or having it reflected on his 7PR, should be sufficient. He does not feel comfortable about giving days off as an incentive, because there are some employees who are goof -offs but know how to look busy whenever the boss is around. If that employee were given the incentive, it would ruin it for the other employees. He is very careful, also, that if he calls an employee in to thank, it is the right employee he is thanking. The commissioners thanked Mr. Nakasone, and he left at 11:00 a.m. (A recess was held from 11:00 a.m. to 11:07 a.m., at which time the Chair called the meeting back to order. Mr. Brian Kajikawa entered and introduced himself.) Mr. Kajikawa explained that he is the chief of the Building Division in the Public Works Department. He j oined the County less than eight years ago as a proj ect coordinator, and over the years and divisions has become the Building Chief. Ms. Nicholson asked Mr. Kajikawa if he knew why he was there, and he said not really. The Chair explained that the Commission's task is to evaluate departments and commissions for the County. At the end of one year they will submit suggestions to the Mayor on how they feel the divisions can better their efficiency. Mr. Kajikawa said that the Building Division is responsible for the issuance of all building permits. They are also in charge of all violations concerning illegal structures. They also do the building maintenance for all County facilities other than those in Parks & Recreation, which maintains its own. They also put projects out to bid in which only the DPW is allowed to execute the contracts. They have several projects on board currently, including the West Hawaii Civic Center and the renovation of the County Building. His staff at one point had only two people, but additional staff was granted and they will have five project coordinators. Their building maintenance work includes repairing roof leaks, fixing toilets, etc. Mr. Kajikawa explained the various positions his Division has, which includes building inspectors, electrical inspectors, and plumbing inspectors, divided up between the east and west sides of the island. They recently received approval for a violations inspector to help them catch up in that area. They are also gradually increasing the number of clerks they have to process permits. Staff increases were not granted until last year, and the workload is there. Inspectors used put in overtime but were not allowed to claim it. Under his supervision, they are now allowed to claim the overtime. For inspections alone, he was allotted $18,000 in overtime, but they actually worked about $180,000 in overtime. The answer was always no when they tried to budget for overtime, but the workload finally got too high. He looks at the Building Division as the "dumping grounds" of the County. Whenever people don't know who to call, they call them. They are called for all kinds of problems and questions. The Chair explained that the Commission had six questions for Mr. Kajikawa to address and that these questions are being asked of all the departments. 1. Do you have any ideas about what your department can do to save money while not compromising essential services? Mr. Kajikawa said he didn't know about saving money, because they never had enough of it. The work was there, but the overtime pay was not. Previous chiefs would not allow overtime, which caused the workload to pile up. The personnel are willing to get the work out. The inspectors need to travel a lot by cars, and at one point they were running the mileage from 150,000 to 160,000 per car, as they were not budgeted for new cars. Two years ago they were given the go ahead, so they have been acquiring new cars. Nine new cars were acquired this year and he expects to acquire about twelve next year. Previously the inspectors were in harm's way because of the condition of the older cars. So he is pleased in this area. 2. Do you see any way to consolidate services, activities and functions of a similar nature within the County? Mr. Kajikawa said they are stretched out, and it would be hard to say yes. 3. Are there any services, activities and functions not necessary to efficient conduct of government that could be eliminated? Mr. Kajikawa said that because his Division takes care of the County facilities, every year they have to budget for electricity, rent, and water services. He feels the departments should pay for those things. Doing the budget is always a guessing game, and the electricity goes up each year. They also have "x" amount assigned for travel expenses each year, but air rates went up, as well as meals, and they do not have enough for traveling and conferences. The budget needs to increase with the times. His Division also pays for building insurance, and he feels that should be done by a different department, possibly Finance, where they have the personnel. Oj 4. Can privatization help the County? If so, in what ways? Mr. Kajikawa said that currently, only the cleaning of facilities is hired out. People come at night to do the cleaning, sweeping, vacuuming, and dumping of rubbish. There are two persons in charge of this, but their primary duty is delivery of mail and other things. If they had to do their own janitorial work, they would need a way bigger staff and it would be a headache. His Division also does the shampooing and polishing of floors, as well as window cleaning. These could be privatized. As far as inspections and permit processing, this should remain with the County, as he needs control there. S. Can you suggest any modernization projects that might streamline your operations in lieu of privatizing functions? Mr. Kajikawa said they had tried to streamline operations by going to a new computer system. However, the system has so many problems and can't do certain things. They are trying to iron out the bugs in the system. 6 Do you have any other ideas on how you can make your operations more efficient? Mr. Kajikawa responded, "Get rid of the union." He explained that a lot of employees fall back on the union and take advantage of the County. They might have come to the County with good intentions, but some go to the dark side. When that happens, there is a hard task in front of County. The JPR's start going downhill. He does not know if it is a County mentality that causes this, but it makes you shake your head. Mr. Joseph asked how much income the permit process generates for the County, and Mr. Kajikawa said about $2 million, and that it goes into the General Fund. Mr. Joseph asked whether the cost of having inspectors balances out with the revenue generated from the permits, and Mr. Kajikawa said they actually collect more. Ms. Provalenko asked whether it would behoove them, since they have budgeted $108,000 for overtime, to hire more people versus paying overtime. Mr. Kajikawa said it is good to hire more people, but then what do you do with them during the slow periods? He feels it is better to be able to pay overtime than to have too much staff to try to keep busy during slow times. He said that right now it is pretty comfortable. Ms. Provalenko asked if they would be all right even with added projects coming up, and Mr. Kajikawa said that with the additional personnel they have received, they should do okay. Ms. Provalenko asked whether the Building Division was always responsible for paying other departments' electricity, and Mr. Kajikawa said yes, as well as the rents. This includes all the County buildings, all the baseyards, all the facilities. Only Parks & Recreation takes care of its own. 10 Mr. Sakaguchi asked what would happen if the County said it was not going to build any more, that it was going to lease —would it work if whoever builds the buildings is to take care of the maintenance? Mr. Kajikawa said he believed so and that this was a good idea, as they would not have to worry about it. He said they had a schedule of all the buildings and when they were due for certain repairs or maintenance, such as painting or roof changing. However, funds were taken out of his Division and maintenance has fallen back. At one point they were behind 15 years. Now they are over 20 years behind. If they had someone who they could lease from and who would take care of everything, that would be good. Mr. Sakaguchi said that many departments do not know how much they are spending, especially if they don't take care of their own expenses such as electricity. He said that many universities are getting out of the dormitory business and instead contracting out. It costs more, but it reduces liability and is included in the current service. Mr. Kajikawa said that when the County owns or builds, the first five years are good because there is no maintenance requirement. After five to six years, maintenance comes up. The County Building was hardly maintained, which is why they are having problems now. They encountered asbestos in the 1990's and if they had taken care of it then, it wouldn't be as big a problem as it is now. Mr. Sakaguchi said that the permitting function is important, as it sets certain living standards and is a crucial responsibility. He said that at one point there was talk about allowing licensed architects and engineers to do it. Mr. Kajikawa said that is allowed in certain situations, but for the most part he does not trust this would be good. Some architects rubber -stamp things to get income. Some do not even visit the site but will stamp approval. He knows of a situation where an inspector found the foundation floating, but the architect approved it. However, on some big projects he would allow the architect or engineer to do the inspection. An example was the police radio tower, in which the construction was fast - tracked. The contractor was allowed to get a structural engineer to do the inspection and send the report to him. But it needs to be under his control so he knows what is happening. Mr. Sakaguchi asked why architects who rubber -stamp do not behave professionally, and Mr. Kajikawa said it is because they have not been sued yet. The Chair asked whether the Building Division has specific personnel looking for illegal structures. Mr. Kajikawa said not at this point. The inspector of that district should be taking care of that. Last month 330 building permit applications came in, and he feels that since people are paying for permits, they should be serviced first. Going after illegal structures is secondary. He is hopeful that with their new inspector coming in, they can do more. Some of the illegal structures are nicely done by people who just don't want to go through the system and be bothered with it. If later on they want to get a permit, the permit fee is doubled. They do not realize that Hawaii County is one of the cheapest in the State as far as permits. There is also an amnesty program to avoid the doubled permit fee. 11 The Chair asked whether the fast track was being pursued on permits for package homes, and Mr. Kajikawa said that when the code is adopted, they will pursue it. The plans will still need to be stamped by an architect. The Chair asked whether there were plans to upgrade the computer software, and Mr. Kajikawa said that every time they have enhanced the software they ended up with problems. They have a good County employee who is working on it but can't seem to figure out how to fix it. Mr. Sakaguchi asked if that was the only software package available, and Mr. Kajikawa said it was recommended they follow the system used by Real Property Tax. Ms. Nicholson asked what happens to the fees they collect, and Mr. Kajikawa said they all go into the General Fund, even penalties. He said there is nothing he can do about it. He earlier wanted to implement a plan review fee, which would be a percentage of the building permit fee, but the Mayor and his boss said no. Ms. Nicholson said that some departments retain funds they collect, such as Solid Waste's tipping fee, and asked why Mr. Kajikawa's division does not. He said that everything goes into the General Fund. He can ask about it again, but will probably be told no. He is required to stay within the previous year's budget. The only increase is in salary and wages, and possibly in electricity. This last budget was the first time he was able to increase the overtime. He said it is difficult to operate like this—he has to show the work is being done in order to get the funds. Ms. Nicholson asked whether he would like to send employees to conferences and meetings and whether he felt it benefited the County. Mr. Kajikawa said yes. He said they are a part of the Hawaii Association of County Building Divisions, which meets each year on a different island. He sends his supervisory staff to those. He would like to have his building inspectors receive certification to show they are qualified as inspectors. Electricians and plumbers are licensed, but the building side has no requirements in terms of being a contractor for certification. Ms. Nicholson asked why an inspector would want to work for the County, given the construction boom in the private sector. Mr. Kajikawa said once they are in the County system, they tend to stay. The problem is when they retire. He has problems recruiting on the Kona side. People do not apply because the market is so good out there. Sometimes he recruits from other County departments. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether Mr. Kajikawa has the authority to offer bonuses, and Mr. Kajikawa said that is not in his jurisdiction. He said a problem with incentives is bringing anew person in to get more pay than someone doing the same work for a long time. It is hard to make incentives equal across the board. He does not want to deal with conflicts there. Ms. Nicholson asked how he felt about the County being split into two counties. Mr. Kajikawa said he does not think there will be a split, but if there is, coverage of Waimea would need to be determined. Kona and Hilo share Waimea. At the present time Kona cannot issue 12 building permits for the east side, but the east side can issue them for Kona. These issues will slowly be corrected. Ms. Nicholson asked whether it would make sense for the Building Division to have a different work schedule, such as four ten -hour days, or having the permitting section open on Saturdays. Mr. Kajikawa said he is short- staffed as far as the building permit employees. Sometimes supervisors have to go up front to help the clerks, who take the brunt of the complaining public. He said he does not want to be open on Saturdays, as they would need to increase the staff. Some employees may not be willing to work on Saturdays, as well. The staff would have to be bigger to handle working on Saturdays. Ms. Nicholson asked whether any privatizing would help the Building Division. Mr. Kajikawa said that as far as the building permit side, he did not want privatization. Too many peoples' hands would be involved. Though the procedure is not that complicated, things can get altered. As far as the repair and maintenance side and the design side, they could probably use privatization. The design side does not have professionals, so they hire architects to do the design work. They could probably hire construction managers, too. Mr. Sakaguchi asked why Mr. Kajikawa had left private practice, and he said he got tired of drawing after awhile. The commissioners thanked Mr. Kajikawa for coming, and he left the meeting at 11:50 a.m. The Chair asked if anyone had suggestions for the list of recommendations based on the two presentations just held. Ms. Nicholson commented that she finds it disturbing that some of the answers they get do not support the written responses sent out by the departments. She feels they need to be wary in looking at some of the responses prepared by the department heads. The responses they received should not be taken as a given, because there are clearly some differences of opinion. The Chair said they could decide on each one as they went down the list, take either side. Mr. Sakaguchi wondered who makes the decisions, whether the Council on a political basis does so, or the mayor. He felt it was sad for the departments and divisions to be so constrained budget -wise, as they have the potential to move the County ahead. Mr. Sakaguchi had to leave the meeting at 11:55 a.m. Ms. Nicholson said it was difficult to come up with any specific recommendations from either Mr. Nakasone or Mr. Kajikawa. She said it was clear, however, that Mr. Nakasone is unhappy that deputy directors and the managing director are not within the civil service. He is concerned about the lack of continuity. She was not sure they should recommend that a director or deputy director be civil servants. Mr. Joseph said he would not support that, either. 13 Motion and Vote: Ms. Nicholson moved to recommend that the Highway Maintenance Division of the Department of Public Works pursue negotiations with the union to go to a 10- hour, 4 -day work schedule for employees. Mr. Joseph seconded the motion. Ms. Stremski said she agreed. After no further discussion, the Chair called for a vote and all members voted aye. Motion and Vote: Mr. Joseph moved to recommend that the County try to incorporate or consolidate all the State highways into the County highways system, as Mr. Nakasone felt it would be more efficient and for home rule. Ms. Stremski seconded the motion. All members voted aye. The Chair said that a good point was made about hiring out grant writers instead of employing them in- house, but he noted that hiring grant writers was on the list of recommendations. So, this issue could be discussed when they get there on their list. Motion: Ms. Nicholson moved that the Building Division's budget request for more training, conference, and travel funds be increased, if possible, into the next budget cycle. Ms. Stremski seconded the motion. Discussion: Mr. Joseph said he was confused on this issue, as Mr. Kajikawa had said that he cannot add to his budget and that it does not increase. However, when a budget is being made, aren't recommendations to increase taken into consideration? The Chair said that Mr. Kajikawa said his increases always got taken out. He did not know if that happened at the division level, department level, mayor, or County Council level. However, he got the impression the requests were made but denied. Mr. Joseph said he would prefer in the motion wording that the travel budget be "adequately funded" rather than "increased." Motion withdrawn: Ms. Nicholson withdrew her motion, and Ms. Stremski withdrew her second. Ms. Nicholson said they could recommend increased opportunities for training, conferences, and meetings for the Building Division staff to broaden their knowledge. Ms. Provalenko said that there are opportunities, but if there is no funding, how could it be done? Mr. Joseph noted that on their draft list of recommendations, item 12 is about providing professional development opportunities for departmental staff and felt that covers the wording of the motion they were trying to make. Ms. Nicholson said it was interesting, though, that Mr. Nakasone seemed to feel they did not need more in this area. However, the Building Division seemed to need it. The commissioners discussed how to word a motion in this regard. Motion and Vote: Mr. Joseph moved that they recommend the Building Division be provided with an adequate travel budget in which certification and training opportunities would be available to staff. Ms. Nicholson seconded the motion, and all members voted aye. 14 Ms. Nicholson said that Mr. Nakasone had recommended that there be performance standards for each division and that he had already developed them for his Division. He clearly felt other divisions would benefit from having standards. Should this issue be posed to Civil Service? The commissioners discussed performance standards and how certain divisions provide multiple services, which would make it hard to measure their performance and function. They felt Mr. Nakasone was trying to impress this issue upon them, however. Ms. Stremski suggested this issue be added to their list for Civil Service. The Chair suggested they ask other divisions about whether they have performance standards when they come in. He felt about half of the divisions would have a way to measure, and the other half would not. Ms. Nicholson suggested that as they were finished with having speakers from the Public Works Department, they review its response letter (Communication No. 2006 -51) and decide what to recommend. A break was called from 12:15 p. m. to 12:20 p.m., at which time the Chair called the meeting back to order. Motion and Vote: Ms. Nicholson moved to recommend that creation of a traffic hotline be investigated, pursuant to item 4a of the response from the DPW. Ms. Provalenko seconded the motion. All members voted aye. Motion: Ms. Nicholson moved to recommend that the DPW develop a prevention or safety- driven focus within each division, pursuant to item 6b of the DPW's response. Ms. Stremski seconded the motion. Discussion: Mr. Joseph asked what the purpose would be, and the Chair and Ms. Provalenko indicated they also did not understand this recommendation. Ms. Nicholson said that right now the DPW is reactionary, as opposed to being pro- active. This is suggesting they add a pro- active component to their department, focused on safety. The Chair said he could not see employees searching neighborhoods for problems, if that is what was meant. Mr. Joseph said it could prove more costly. Ms. Garson explained that it was similar to risk management. If you see a pothole that needs fixing, you should get it fixed before receiving a claim for damages from someone. Vote: After no further discussion the Chair called for a vote. Ms. Nicholson and Ms. Stremski voted aye. Ms. Provalenko, Mr. Joseph, and the Chair voted against the motion. The motion was not passed. The Chair said he only voted against it because it was hard to define, and he did not want to recommend something he could not defend or justify. He said they could always come back to it at another meeting. Motion and Vote: Ms. Stremski moved to file Comm. 2006 -51, Ms. Nicholson seconded the motion, and all members voted aye. 15 7. DISCUSSION /ACTION ON OFFICE OF THE CORPORATION COUNSEL RESPONSE TO THE COMMISSION'S LETTER DATED APRIL 10, 2006 Motion: Mr. Joseph moved to accept and file items 7 through 19 on the agenda, and to leave discussion for a later time. Ms. Provalenko seconded the motion. Discussion: Ms. Nicholson said that if these are taken off the agenda, they may forget they had a response to something, or not everyone will bring the responses to the next meeting. Mr. Joseph suggested that in lieu of having speakers at the next meeting, they address each of these items instead. Motion withdrawn: Mr. Joseph withdrew the motion, and Ms. Provalenko withdrew her second. Motion: Mr. Joseph moved to defer items 7 through 19 to the next agenda, and Ms. Provalenko seconded the motion. Discussion: Ms. Nicholson noted that item 18 was recently received and they could move to file it away, rather than defer it. She felt those responses which did not say much could be filed away rather than deferred, and be gotten off the agenda. The Chair suggested that they be deferred to the next meeting, at which time they could have those with minimal responses filed all at once, and then have one presentation instead of two. (Ms. Stremski mentioned that she will not be able to attend the next meeting.) Vote: After no further discussion, the Chair called for a vote. Ms. Stremski, Ms. Provalenko, Mr. Joseph, and the Chair voted aye. Ms. Nicholson was opposed, as she felt they should at least deal with item 18. The motion was passed. (ITEMS 7 THROUGH 19 WERE DEFERRED TO THE NEXT AGENDA.) 20. DISCUSSION /ACTION REGARDING PRIORITIZING DEPARTMENTS/ BOARDS /COMMISSIONS OR ISSUES TO ACCOMPLISH THE MANDATE OF THE COST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION The Chair asked whether they wanted any more presentations from the Department of Public Works. Ms. Nicholson and Ms. Stremski said no. The Chair noted that the Planning Department is next on the list, and that it may take long. No one suggested adding another department to the list. 21. DISCUSSION OF ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON THE NEXT AGENDA Ms. Nicholson said that getting Christopher Yuen for the Planning Department is key. The Chair asked whether, if Mr. Yuen was not available, they would prefer to jump to the next department and wait for Mr. Yuen's availability, and Ms. Stremski and Ms. Nicholson said yes. 16 Q � Ms. Garson mentioned that the Police Department did not respond to the COGC's letter. She said they could ask for the chief or a deputy or assistant chief, and that there were different divisions, including an administrative division. Ms. Nicholson said they should leave the decision on who to send with the chief, and that they wanted someone to give them an overview. From the overview they could decide if they wanted to talk to another representative in particular. Ms. Nicholson suggested the Police be sent the questions again and asked to respond, or to bring a response with copies to the meeting. Ms. Garson said she would e -mail the Police. Ms. Garson said that at the next meeting, they need to sit down with a calendar and plan out how the rest of the process is to take place, as they are running out of time. This can happen when they are discussing prioritizing. Mr. Joseph asked if there was a chance that the Mayor would fill the District 4 vacancy, and Ms. Garson said probably not. The County has been trying through various means to get more commissioners, but she is not aware of anyone under consideration and cannot see it happening soon. Also, it may be rough for a new commissioner to come on at this point. 22. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC No members of the public were present. 23. ANNOUNCEMENTS The Chair announced the next meeting as being scheduled for August 3, 2006, at 10:00 a.m. at the conference room at the Hilo Department of Liquor Control, 101 Aupuni Street, Suite 230, Hilo, Hawaii. 24. ADJOURNMENT Motion and Vote: Ms. Nicholson moved to adjourn, Mr. Joseph seconded the motion, and all members voted aye. The meeting was adjourned at 12:45 p.m. Respectfully submitted: Mary E. 6osson, Secretary 17