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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-05-18 Cost of Government Commission Minutes1. 2. COST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION County of Hawaii MINUTES May 18, 2006 — 10:00 a.m. Department of Liquor Control - Conference Room Commission members present: Others present: CALL TO ORDER 101 Aupum Street, Suite 230 Hilo, Hawaii 96720 Wayne T. Joseph, Acting Chair Pamela F. Cushnie, Commissioner Marilyn L. Nicholson, Commissioner Melvyn K. Sakaguchi, Commissioner Barbara R. Stremski, Commissioner Katherine A. Garson, Deputy Corporation Counsel Mary E. Crosson, Secretary Michael Dworsky, Department of Environmental Management Jiro Sumada, Department of Public Works The Chair called the meeting to order at 10:00 a.m. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM MAY 4, 2006, MEETING Motion and Vote: Mr. Sakaguchi moved to approve and file the minutes, Ms. Nicholson seconded, and all members voted to approve and file the minutes of May 4, 2006. 3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC There were no members of the public present. Communication No. 2006 -43: A letter from Jane Huntington regarding inefficiency in the recruitment process. Ms. Garson stated that she called the Civil Service Department on the issue Ms. Huntington raised, about overlapping positions when one employee leaves and a new one takes over. Ronald Takahashi, the deputy director, said that they are allowed to advertise for the position. One of Ms. Huntington's complaints was that the recruitment process cannot begin until the position is vacant. Mr. Takahashi said this is not true. If a position is funded and available, they can recruit even if the position is still occupied by someone. However, there does not appear to be a provision for overlapping, so that issue may need to be addressed. Motion: Ms. Nicholson moved that the COGC acknowledge receipt of Ms. Huntington's letter and file it away until such time that they meet with the Civil Service Department. Discussion: Ms. Stremski wanted it clarified that they would revisit the letter. Ms. Garson is to draft the letter to Ms. Huntington, stating that the issues raised will be addressed later. Vote: All members voted aye to acknowledge receipt of Ms. Huntington's letter and to address it later. 4. APPROVAL OF ADDENDUM AND /OR SUPPLEMENTAL AGENDA There was no addendum or supplemental agenda. 5. PRESENTATION AND QUESTION /ANSWER SESSION BY THE SOLID WASTE DIVISION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT The Chair introduced Michael Dworsky, of the Solid Waste Division of the Department of Environmental Management ( "DEM "). Mr. Dworsky stated that he is the chief of the Solid Waste Division within the DEM, which has two divisions: Wastewater and Solid Waste. He has been employed there for about ten months. Previously, he lived in American Samoa for ten years, where he also worked on solid waste and waste water projects. He is a sanitary engineer. Mr. Dworsky explained that he did not have time to put a lot of original thought into the questions posed by the COGC, as he has been snowed under working to keep the landfill open, among other work issues. However, there were a few things he wanted to address. He said he does not intend to come across as frustrated or bitter, but he sees a lot of inefficiency in how the County operates, which bothers him. The County does not do as well as it should. He explained that he is a one -man office and has no clerk or anyone to do filing. The DEM is not at the capacity of employees it needs to do its job. The recruitment process takes a long time. They cannot interview a panel of applicants until there is actually a vacancy. As an example, he said that the County has two scalehouse operators at its landfills. They work a four -day shift, with one day of overlap. If one of them gets sick, someone has to cover; and there is nothing in the system to allow him to quickly fill that slot. The scalehouse has to remain open, as it is the bread and butter from the private sector. The scalehouse operator is the lowest paid position in the system, but the DEM is having to use higher level employees to cover it, which means higher pay and overtime for those employees. Some employees are being cross - trained to work at the scalehouse while the 2 DEM is trying to recruit. These are being paid at a higher salary and belong to a different union, which causes a problem with other employees doing the same work for less pay. He said he understands that they can't have extra employees on board, but there should be a way to have redundancy so that when there is a vacancy, they can move quickly to fill it. He said this may not be a County -wide problem, but it is a very big problem for his department. Mr. Dworsky explained that the Solid Waste Division employs transfer station attendants and equipment operators. An equipment operator needs to have a Commercial Driver's License (CDL). They also have a hard time keeping the positions in Kona filled, due to the cost of living in Kona as well as better pay in the private sector. As a result, they have Hilo employees driving to Kona every day, to drive the trucks in Kona. The mileage expense to the County as a result is not efficient. There is, however, no housing system to lodge the workers in Kona. They are trying to set up a training system to train transfer station attendants, who could move up to be equipment operators. There is only one authorized trainer, and it takes time to train someone. Employees can only be trained one at a time. They need more people to train employees so they can be used. There are lots of problems and no answers. On the procurement side, it takes an inordinate amount of time to get a contract through. They have to follow the State Procurement Code, which does not lend itself to getting work done quickly. It takes about a month after a contract is prepared to get all the necessary signatures. People need to study contracts before they sign. The Solid Waste Division deals with many contracts, including contracts with recycling facilities at transfer stations, the greenwaste people in Kona and Hilo, scrap metal, and tires. These are all separate contracts. There is another contract for Margaret Pahio, who manages Business Services, Inc., which does the roll -on, roll -off recycling. Contracts are usually set up for six -month or one -year terms, which is not efficient. It would be good to have multi -year contracts. Because of the current short terms, they do not get competitive rates when contracts go up for bid, because the companies with the existing contracts are already geared up to do it. The procurement process hinders getting good competition. Having to deal with these contracts takes up a lot of his time and keeps him from doing other tasks. The contracts have to be kept track of and kept moving, and payment has to be timely. Also, there are State - related grant funds, but the County cannot commit to a multi -year contract if it is uncertain whether the State money will be coming down. Mr. Dworsky said the current system is not very efficient, but they have to live with the laws and rules they have. This does not make the best use of their time and does not result in the best quality or product, because there is not enough competition. There is not enough business on the island for people to compete with roll -on and roll -offs, but if they were able to do a multi -year contract, another company could possibly gear up for it. 3 Mr. Dworsky stated another problem is in working with the unions, which he does not have much experience in. Workers from different unions work in Solid Waste. The unions are good for protecting the employees' rights, but they make it hard to appropriately discipline employees. Many employees will not perform duties for which they were not hired. He comes from a background where everybody would pitch in and help. The unions have set things up in such a way that causes abuse of the system. Random drug testing is another thing from which union employees are protected. Drug testing is allowed only for a new employee coming in, before the job is actually given. He wants to make sure their employees are clean, as they are driving big trucks on the highways. They need to be safe to protect the public as well as themselves. Each year when union contracts are being negotiated, there is a chance to bring it up. It is very frustrating trying to get used to the system. Mr. Dworsky said these are the major issues that he noted, in addition to the written response the DEM sent in earlier. He apologized for not being more familiar with the government. He said his office is over on Railroad Avenue, away from other County offices, so he actually does not get to know much about how the County operates. The Chair asked if the commissioners had any questions. Mr. Sakaguchi commented that the greenwaste operation on the island is great. He does not know who the vendor is, but they are doing a great job. The previous vendor was not very good. Mr. Dworsky said he wished that was told to the County Council, as Ms. Isbell had the funds removed for that using them, and EKO is one of the better contractors. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether the DEM has access to cash to make emergency short-term hires. Mr. Dworsky said it is not a financial problem if it is in the budget. However, new positions require approval. He has not explored or heard about doing emergency short- term hires. Mr. Sakaguchi asked what kind of orientation Mr. Dworsky received upon coming to the DEM. Mr. Dworsky said he received no orientation from the Civil Service Department, although they kept him informed. He could have used more orientation, but on the other hand there was enough to get him going, and it was more of a learn-on-the-job type of situation. Mr. Sakaguchi commented that a lack of training and filling him in on how to survive in this environment must have caused a lot of stress on Mr. Dworsky and asked him how long he would stay with the County. Mr. Dworsky said it is stressful and frustrating, as there is such a great need. Mr. Sakaguchi asked what could be done in terms of the delay in processing contracts, whether longer terms would help, and Mr. Dworsky said yes. Mr. Sakaguchi asked what contracts were reviewed for, and Mr. Dworsky explained that the problem mostly was in having to create new contracts every year, and negotiate, and rd print out proposals or bids. Mr. Sakaguchi commented that meant starting from scratch, and Mr. Dworsky agreed that contracts are not necessarily existing contracts. Mr. Sakaguchi said that the functions are not new, but continuing ones. Mr. Dworsky stated that as he understands the procurement law, it requires them to do proposals, not bids. With proposals, they need to advertise, and so bids are faster. They have a meeting set up in early June with the Finance Department to talk about these issues to see if there is a better way to do these things within the existing procurement rules. They want to see if there is flexibility in the way they are interpreting the rules. Mr. Sakaguchi asked if Mr. Dworsky ever talks to his colleagues about the problems, and Mr. Dworsky said that there is a group of Solid Waste people who get together every couple of months to discuss issues. Some of the issues he sees, from the Solid Waste perspective, should possibly be state - coordinated. The Hilo side of the island generates 200 tons of solid waste per day, which is not very much. Maui and Kauai have the same problem, and they are also looking at waste -to- energy possibilities. There is not much state coordination on this issue —each County is doing this on its own. Because Hawaii is a small group of islands in the middle of the Pacific, he feels more coordination between them would help. Mr. Dworsky explained that waste -to- energy plants have the same components, whether they are processing 200 or 2,000 tons per day. West Hawaii generates more than 400 tons per day. The DEM would prefer not to truck the rubbish through Waimea. Maui was actually interested in Hilo's garbage, which they wanted to add to their own stock so they could have a bigger power plant. Each county is trying to solve its own solid waste problems, so there is no smooth coordination between them. Ms. Nicholson asked Mr. Dworsky why he thought a bid process would be more effective than requests for proposals, as she felt more innovative ideas would surface through the RFP process. Mr. Dworsky agreed that initially there may be value in the continuity of it and that it might be better to keep it going for five years on a renewable bid basis and then every five years put it up for proposal. But every year seems like a short-term contract for a long -term process. In some cases proposals are better, but when they know exactly what they want, the bid process may be more efficient. It needs to be looked at on a case -by -case basis, however. Mr. Sakaguchi asked what the likelihood is of the State taking over the waste management function from the counties, and Mr. Dworsky said he does not see that happening unless the Department of Health puts themselves in the position of being the EPA. They are the regulators, and if it was a state function, they would be regulating themselves. He has never heard of the State looking along those lines. Mr. Sakaguchi said the basis of the COGC is to look at other ways of doing things, new solutions, when the current practice does not work well. He felt a change of venue to State control might be appropriate, as the State has deeper pockets. He said that he has never understood why the Big Island can't have a power plant. Mr. Dworsky said that many technologies are out there, but it comes down to the cost and what the County would pay. If the State took it over, they would probably replicate what the County is doing now. The State does have a lot more resources, however. 5 Mr. Dworsky said that they are studying curbside recycling in Waikoloa, since it is a tight community and has in its covenants the ability to charge as part of the fees. Solid Waste would like to do more curbside recycling, like the mainland does. It would not work for the whole County, but in certain more populated areas it might be feasible. He does not know how the compensation via real property tax would work, though. However, the County should look at curbside facilities so that presorting is done, rather than having people throw washers and mattresses down the chute. Honolulu and Maui already have curbside pick -up. Hawaii County is the only county with transfer stations instead. Ms. Nicholson asked for clarification on who is doing the studying on this, whether it is the DEM, or the Council, and what method is being used to study the issues. Mr. Dworsky said that consultants put together a survey, which has been funded by the County. Pete Hoffmann had worked on this. Ms. Nicholson asked who goes over the consultant report when it comes in, to decide what is viable and what to put forward to the Council for funding. Mr. Dworsky said the DEM does. They are hoping the recommendations that are being studied from Waikoloa could also conceivably be the model to be used in other areas. Waikoloa is already set up with a fee structure to get the public to participate. Hawaiian Paradise Park or Hawaiian Ocean View Estates might be other areas where it would be feasible to try this model, rather than building more transfer stations. Ms. Nicholson asked Mr. Dworsky if he felt this was an effective process to look at this issue, and Mr. Dworsky said he hopes so. He is optimistic that it is moving the DEM in the right direction. They have to be open- minded and look at new technologies and approaches. They cannot keep doing things the same way. Ms. Cushnie asked whether, when a small development like Waikoloa proposes to do this, it runs into privatization issues. Mr. Dworsky said it could be privatized, or contracted out, by the community on its own, without dealing with the County. The County would just get the tipping fee when the waste comes to the landfill. If all people individually dropped off their solid waste at transfer stations, the County would only receive the funds from real property tax. Ms. Cushnie asked whether Mr. Dworsky thought the County would always be expanding its work force with union employees, or whether certain areas could be developed which would provide their own water, fire stations, and infrastructure. As examples, she mentioned HOVE or Paradise Park. Mr. Dworsky said it is possible. When he reviews plans from the Planning Department, if there is a Special Management Area or special project or rezoning situation, he asks them to put together a solid waste management plan. The ability to charge is not always in the covenants, but the DEM wants to see what they are doing, whether they think ahead about how the garbage is to be handled. Ms. Cushnie asked if that is an automatic part of the permitting process, and Mr. Dworsky said that from his perspective, it is. They are allowed to ask for the solid waste management plans. They need to know what the subdivisions are planning to do. He sees the County's Solid Waste Division growing. Many of the transfer stations are old 6 and need more chutes. Old chutes are rotting, and more are needed. His Division is not maxed out, as far as total growth towards running efficiently. He also sees the opportunity to do curbside and privatize on the pick -up side. Ms. Cushnie said that Mr. Dworsky's division is grappling also with efficiency and time management and said that his frustration and overview are refreshing, as he is not deadened yet to the impact of all the ramifications of unions and funding and contracts and everything else. She asked whether he ever gets the chance to have the Mayor's or Council's ear. Mr. Dworsky said that the Mayor is open to ideas but is cognizant that Solid Waste is part of a much bigger organization. The DEM has positions it wants to put in for and priorities to submit to the Council, but the DEM's priorities and others' priorities are different. The DEM's No. 1 priority might be No. 7 with the County. People tend to notice and be concerned with abandoned vehicles, for example. They don't see the landfill. Mr. Dworsky said he believes the Council has differences with the DEM and with Solid Waste in general. There is a sense that the DEM does not have a good relationship with the County. He does not know what the Council's agendas are, but the Mayor is very up front about where he is going. Not everybody approves of that. Ms. Cushnie asked whether the DEM ever gets ideas from outside consultants for free, and Mr. Dworsky said yes, that they do pick up ideas and subscribe to publications. The State also promotes certain things. The consultants the DEM brings in have a lot of experience. The consultants that did the study on the sliver fill made a big difference. They had done a half a dozen or more in the Southern California area and were able to show the difference that was made, and that they are stable and safe. The State feels that Hilo should have closed its landfill ten years ago. It has no liner. West Hawaii has a beautiful landfill. One landfill, however, cannot serve the County's needs. People perceive that there are many trucks and bottlenecks on the highways. He commented that he sees more Matson trucks on the highway than would ever be seen with Solid Waste vehicles and that when the eucalyptus trees are harvested, there will be still more trucks. He said that even though this is a big island, driving a couple of hours on the mainland is not unusual. Ms. Cushnie said that in some ways it is useful to be ten years behind the mainland, as we benefit from their experience. Mr. Joseph said that commercial haulers do a real service and asked whether the County would be better served if it gave haulers incentives or tax breaks. Mr. Dworsky said the haulers who haul residential trash do get a refund back. If they can identify the people whose rubbish they pick up, the County gives them the incentive to reduce the cost of the tipping fee. Mr. Joseph said that a few years ago, the County raised the tipping fees and put some small haulers out of business. He felt it would be good to encourage them by possibly reducing or eliminating the tipping fee. Also, it would be better to have one truck going to the landfill, rather than 100 private vehicles. 7 Mr. Dworsky said that someone has to pay for that. The trouble now is getting the Council to approve the DEM's operating budget. A portion of their funds comes from the tipping fee. Most haulers charge that back through their business and cover their costs. People in residential areas have the option of signing up for a hauler, but people living in the boondocks may not have that option. Mr. Dworsky said to look at East Hawaii. Of the 200 tons of solid waste generated per day, half is commercially hauled and the other half is residential. They get $75 per ton times 100 tons per day for the commercial waste. For the other 100 tons, they receive no revenue, and the budget makes up the difference. Off the top of his head, about half of their overall operating cost is funded through commercial haulers, and the other half is funded through the County. They try to keep the commercial waste out of the residential, but in reality that does not always happen. Many smaller transfer stations are ungated and unguarded, and some small commercial haulers will dump trash there. There are not enough secured, locked, and guarded stations. More illegal dumping will be seen over time. However, lowering the tipping fees may also encourage someone to go into business. Mr. Sakaguchi said that is the point. If the tipping fee were dropped, more people might go into small business. Mr. Joseph said he knew people in the residential hauling business who went out of business when the County raised the tipping fee. It was not cost - effective for the haulers to raise the price for each customer, and many customers dropped the service. He felt it would be better to get more residents to use residential haulers and that more people would want to use them if the rates were lower. Mr. Sakaguchi agreed. If he takes his own rubbish to the dump, the County does not make any money. Mr. Dworsky said it could be a possibility. If there was a law that people had to use commercial haulers, the County could lower the rate because it would be paid for on the commercial side. They would encourage the private sector to get into the business. Also, less transfer stations would be needed, and the tipping fee could be lowered if not all stations were open. It would be all or none, though. Mr. Sakaguchi asked if this could be done on an experimental basis, with a small community, to see the reaction. The County could try for a grant to offset the tipping fee and make it possible for small business people to provide the service, and the County would still make the $75. This might route more of the garbage through private business and general some revenue. The alternative is making no money when people take their own trash to the landfill. Mr. Dworsky said that in Honolulu and Maui, there are Public Works people picking up the trash. It could be done here, but the rules on tipping fees would need to be changed and new rules put in place. For the Waikoloa study, if the board is hesitant to put a charge on every resident, there is the opportunity to lower the rate so that everyone is willing to separate the trash. Right now, if you told people they would have to pay $15 to $20 per month and have to sort their rubbish, there would be resistance. Ms. Cushnie suggested finding a transfer station that needs repairing, and shutting it down for six months, and having that community try this idea. She asked if Mr. Dworsky had the staff to help write and implement a grant. Mr. Dworsky said all the needs would need to be put together. The stations need many improvements, and the chutes also need more of a roof. They were going to start with the Volcano station because it is in bad condition and the population is growing. They could try to fund a temporary alternative chute through a CIP. However, the land area is so large and the community so rural that to pick up residents' trash may be impractical. It may be easier to set up a temporary chute. Ms. Cushnie said the DEM could pick another location to try. Mr. Sakaguchi told Mr. Dworsky that he hoped he would stay with the DEM. Mr. Dworsky said that he moved here because his wife, who is Samoan, is on dialysis and they have three young children, so he plans to stick around. Mr. Joseph said he had a final question, regarding whether heavy equipment operators were randomly drug tested, and Mr. Dworsky said that to his knowledge they were not. He feels it would be a good idea for the County to have random drug testing. It would emphasize the County's seriousness about the no -drug policy and would protect the employees and the community. Mr. Dworsky explained that equipment operators fall into two categories: truck drivers and those who stay at the landfills and drive the tractors and bulldozers. Both categories require CDL's. However, there are employees who do not want to drive trucks, who would rather stay at the landfill and work the bulldozers. To operate this equipment, however, they need to get a CDL, which also allows for driving a huge rig on the highway. It would be good if the two categories could be separated so that equipment operators do not need CDL's. They tried to talk to the Civil Service Department about this, but Civil Service wants to do things however the other counties do things. The flexibility is lacking. Equipment operators should not need highway training if they are not going to use it. Also, it could be dangerous if you have an employee with a CDL who only drives a bulldozer, but he gets placed in a big truck on the highway. He may have the CDL, but he has not driven a rig on the highway in a long time. Ms. Cushnie said a self - limiting license might be beneficial for everyone's protection. Mr. Sakaguchi said he appreciated Mr. Dworsky's interest in minimizing the County's liability. It is a big problem for all governments. Mr. Joseph thanked Mr. Dworsky for taking the time to come and give a good overview of the Solid Waste Division. (A break was taken from 11: 03 to 11: 08 a. m) Oj 6. PRESENTATION AND QUESTION /ANSWER SESSION BY THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS Mr. Joseph introduced Jiro Sumada, from the Department of Public Works ( "DPW ") Mr. Sumada said that he is the deputy director for the DPW, which has about a $34 million budget and employees about 300 people. The DPW takes care of building permits and the maintenance of County facilities and buildings. It has several divisions. The Automotive Division takes care of County vehicles, except those of the Police and Fire Departments. It also assists other divisions, such as Solid Waste, in major equipment repairs such as the refuse trailers, which need major overhauls to keep them running. The Highways Maintenance Division maintains about 1,000 miles of County roads, compared to State Highways, which maintains 200 -300 miles of road. It also has flood control facilities around the island for emergencies. The Traffic Division deals with traffic signs and markings. The employees stripe the roads, make the signs, and install the signals at intersections. They also take care of the intersections and signals that belong to State Highways, which reimburses the County for this. The Engineering Division takes care of regulatory inspections and issues like grading and grubbing permits. It assists in the review and inspection of the construction of new subdivisions that are proposed or built and the roadways that are dedicated to the County. The Administration Division deals mainly with personnel issues, payroll, hiring, etc. It also deals with the administration of contracts. Any maintenance, repair, or construction contracts, as well as other contracts that go through other departments such as Solid Waste or Wastewater, or for a new police or fire station, all get processed by the DPW. Mr. Sumada provided the commissioners with a handout, and the commissioners took a break to read the handout. (A break to read the handout was taken from 11:14 to 11:21 a.m.) Mr. Joseph asked if there were any questions. Ms. Stremski brought up the narrow bridge that is at the end of Kilauea Avenue, near Haihai Street. She asked if that was a County road, and Mr. Sumada said yes. She asked whether any study was being done about widening that area, as the traffic, both incoming and outgoing, was very bad. Mr. Sumada said he is familiar with that area, but they have no plans right now to replace that bridge. The island has 126 bridges, and the County is focusing its attention on those that are structurally limited as to the weight they can hold, as this prevents fire trucks from crossing. Ms. Stremski asked if it could be considered to make that area one -way, which would alleviate some of the problem, and Mr. Sumada said sure. 10 Ms. Stremski said she has counted being stopped there and having to wait for 25 cars to pass before she could turn onto Kilauea. She is afraid there will be a bad accident there, and Mr. Sumada said the DPW worries about that, too. She asked again if it could be considered to make it one -way, and Mr. Sumada said he wrote it down. Mr. Stremski also said there are a lot of cars which park on the side of the golf course, before the clubhouse. People open the car doors, put their clubs away, and sit and change their shoes on this two -lane highway. It is not safe to have that side parking, especially considering there is a large parking lot there. Mr. Sumada said he would talk to Parks and ask them to initiate a park project. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether the County had a telephone number to take calls from citizens about hazardous situations. Mr. Sumada said that each division, Engineering or Highway Maintenance, would take calls like that. They get hundreds of requests and have to weigh the safety issues with efficiency. Mr. Sakaguchi said that is tough on the staff, and Mr. Joseph asked whether the DPW gets the complaints directly, or whether the Office of Information and Complaints get them. Mr. Sumada said they receive them both ways. The OIC would refer the complaints to DPW. The requests or complaints are dealt with individually. In his handout, there is a recommendation to create a Traffic Hotline, to deal with situations where there are back -ups or some other hazard. He asked Mr. Sakaguchi if he was proposing that the system of dealing with community requests be centralized, and Mr. Sakaguchi said he just wanted to see what the procedure is, as no one likes getting these calls and they waste time. The process should be automated to save on staff time. Mr. Sakaguchi asked why Mr. Sumada felt going to a 10 -hour work day, four days per week, would be good for the County or public. Mr. Sumada explained that they receive complaints from people who have to take off from work to come to the DPW to process something like a permit, and when they come in, there is a long waiting line. By the time they get to the counter, they are upset because they have lost their lunch hour. The suggestion is to expand the hours so people can be dealt with at a time that is convenient for them. Right now, it is only convenient for the DPW staff. They have a regular work day set up around the staff s convenience. They have also turned people away because they show up too late. They need to get the word out, which ties in to another of the recommendations in the handout, about hiring a public relations or customer service specialist to aid in communicating with the public. On the expanded hours suggestion, it would be good for the public and good for the employees, as they could be offered a three -day weekend. In offering them the 10 -hour workdays, they could structure their time around when they are the most productive. Some employees like to come early, and some like to stay late or come in on Saturdays, so there could be flex time. People are most productive when there are no interruptions. Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether the DPW could just open on Saturdays, and Mr. Sumada said they could. 11 Ms. Stremski asked about having a staggered start and finish time, and Mr. Sumada said they could do that, too. It would have to go through the union. No one has entertained the idea of a Saturday operation, but it could be considered. Ms. Nicholson asked if the main barrier to accomplishing this would be union negotiations, and Mr. Sumada said no, it would be dealing with the staff. They are very accustomed to the Monday through Friday operation. In introducing a Saturday, or a Tuesday to Saturday schedule, several employees would be needed to receive customers and process their permits. He felt if they could have three or four, or the minimum number of employees needed to be open, and they were agreeable to trying it, he believed the union would be supportive. However, it would still need to be negotiated. Ms. Cushnie said that Mr. Sumada's proposals are very well thought out and that she hoped he would have the ability to poll the workers. They could do it as an experiment for six months and take a survey on its effectiveness. The proposal is receptive to the public's needs. Ms. Cushnie said she had a question on section b of the handout, whether the County had any grant writers and who gets them. Mr. Sumada said the County does have grant writers in the Research and Development Department —but it's who knows about them and chases after them. He is not sure how it works and has not actively pursued that. He said there is a mindset barrier on this, as certain staff equates more money with more work. They try to take advantage of federal and state programs to augment their funding resources, but having a grant writer on their staff would be very valuable. It would, however, be a gamble to see if enough grants could be found to justify the position of grant writer. Ms. Cushnie commented that he was the third or fourth person who wanted a grant writer. Mr. Sumada said he is not sure how many grants are related to buildings or roads, that most are related to parks and recreation activities. Ms. Cushnie asked if the DPW could bring people into the government on a short-term basis via grant- funded positions, and Mr. Sumada said sure. Mr. Sakaguchi asked if a hui of consultants came to the DPW with a data base of all funding sources for roads, transportation, etc., and asked to do business with the County (which would come up with the ideas, and the consultants would prepare the proposals and get a percentage), would the County be interested. Mr. Sumada said he would be very open to that. Mr. Sakaguchi said that project management would still be an issue, and Mr. Sumada said it could be woven into the grant. Mr. Sakaguchi said that in talking with the various departments, he got a clear sense that the County departments are like separate kingdoms. He is not sure what the managing director and Mayor do, because everybody wants a grant writer, everybody has a problem with computerization, and some departments even have their own payroll system. He 12 asked whether his observation was correct, that the County government is run on a strong department basis, with the Mayor playing a minimal role. He asked if there were functions which the Mayor or managing director were supposed to be doing. Mr. Sumada said that he came back to County employment about a year ago. In talking with long -term civil service employees who have gone through several administrations, some of them say that how Mayor Kim chooses to have his staff or managing director carry out the normal duties or operations is unique. Previous mayors would set a vision or direction for the County, and the daily operations would be delegated to the managing director. Depending on their personalities, it could work effectively so that the managing director would oversee the daily operations of all the departments. The mayor would get involved if there was a major policy change or vision issue. Mayor Kim runs things very differently, and he and Dixie Kaetsu work closely together. Mayor Kim is involved in a lot of operational things, like a CEO who chooses to manage in that regard. That is his preference, and it is a matter of style. Mr. Sumada said that regarding Mr. Sakaguchi's comment about each department being its own kingdom, there are major departments in the County who serve major functions, such as Fire, Police, and Parks. These take up a large chunk of the County budget because they provide services the public demands. The public requires certain things, and that is why the government is as big or as small as it is. The connotation of a kingdom may be because the departments are competing for a limited amount of resources. There is only so much revenue to be divvied up. Each department or division is passionate about its own needs and priorities and feels its needs should be met before the next department's needs. The greatest test of an administration or mayor is when there is not enough money and the budget has to be balanced. So a five or ten percent cut may be made across the board, which is not necessarily the best technique. Few mayors look at which program is more important than another, which would be the ability to manage the distribution of resources. So there is a competitive nature between the departments when funds are being allocated. Each administration carries a philosophy, and usually no one wants to raise taxes. The County receives less and less money, yet the public demands more and more, so things get watered down. He said that some of the comments he turned in reflect that they are down to bare bones and need to evaluate the need for certain services, as some are not the most efficient or are not meeting the current needs. Tough choices have to be made. It is a matter of style, and it is the Mayor's prerogative. Mayor Kim is a hands -on kind of guy. Mr. Sakaguchi said that is fine, but there are departments, an administration, a managing director, executive officials, and Council and the Mayor. Are all these people needed? He does not know why some of the smaller department heads stay on, as they have so many problems, are losing talented people, and have their hands tied by red tape. Mr. Sumada questioned what smaller departments Mr. Sakaguchi meant, and he explained that he meant the division chiefs who have spoken to the COGC. Ms. Garson clarified that he was referring to division heads, members of the Civil Service. 13 Mr. Sumada asked Mr. Sakaguchi to repeat his comment about their being frustrated, and Mr. Sakaguchi said that the division heads cannot hire. They have good ideas and don't have the staff. Everything is embroiled in red tape. A situation has been created where good people get recruited and then leave and recruitment has to begin again. Mr. Joseph interj ected to point out that time was limited and they needed to move on in the agenda. Mr. Sumada told Mr. Sakaguchi that he would answer his questions later, as he does have an opinion on that one specific question. Ms. Cushnie referred to section "d" on Mr. Sumada's handout and asked whether Highway Maintenance received funding other than from fuel tax. Mr. Sumada said this suggestion deals with their in -house paving program. The Division is funded primarily with fuel tax, which comes when you pay at the pump. It is also funded by weight tax, when you register your car, and then from franchise fees from utility companies. The in- house paving program was done over ten years ago. If people are willing to pay a penny more per liter, that money could be reserved just for resurfacing roads. If the fuel tax were increased so many cents per gallon and dedicated towards road maintenance, they could do more in -house paving. Ms. Cushnie clarified that he was also recommending that the County contract out the repairing of potholes, and Mr. Sumada said yes, just the pothole repair. Ms. Nicholson questioned him regarding item 5, sending division chiefs on a tour of mainland government agencies. She asked if the issue is that it doesn't come down to the division chief level, or whether there is a lack of funding. Mr. Sumada said it is a lack of funding. Each division chief has the opportunity or authorization to go on mainland trips, but it is just not common. They have seen low or no budget increases the last several years. Travel is the first thing to get cut. However, it is when you don't have money that you need to expose people to different ways of getting the job done, and if the only place you can go to is Oahu, that is a poor way of expanding our vision. So when there is no money, that is when training and travel should be increased, so it can be seen how things are done elsewhere. His suggestion relates to helping some division chiefs who are long- time engineers who get stuck in figuring out the best way of doing things with the limited resources they have. The Highway Maintenance chief went to an equipment show on the mainland and found a new type of equipment that cuts the brush on the side of the highways better than what the County was using and reduces liability, damage, and vandalism to the equipment. It also can drive like a truck, so can be driven back to the baseyard for safekeeping rather than parked on the side of the highway, leaving it vulnerable to vandalism. This chief, Stanley Nakasone, and his operation is probably the best in the State. They are having visitors from the other islands come to see what he does, as an example. If he had not gone to the mainland, he would not have gotten that idea. This type of thing should be done in other divisions. A mission can be achieved, if people get to see a different view. It does relate to money. Ms. Cushnie referred to item 6b in Mr. Sumada's hand -out, regarding ideas on making operations more efficient. She asked if traffic and flood mitigation were the areas with the most frequent complaints and concerns, and Mr. Sumada said yes. Ms. Cushnie 14 asked if there were other areas, and Mr. Sumada said the illegal structures, on the building side. But the primary area is in traffic safety. They should not wait until there are complaints or an accident. They should be able to go around and find the bad places and take action to prevent accidents. But again, it comes down to money. Ms. Cushnie suggested a monthly focus where they could solicit input from citizens in different areas. She lives in Waimea, and hears from both Hilo and Kona people, and each side perceives different treatment. Mr. Sakaguchi told Mr. Sumada that he was very happy he came back from the private sector to work for the County. It restores his confidence in government. He has a general feeling that the government is not working well at the national, state, and county levels. The last few people the COGC interviewed restored his confidence. He wants to help these employees, to keep them with the County. They have ideas and the will. The County needs to solve the problem of how to keep and support them. Mr. Joseph said he appreciated Mr. Sumada's report, as well as his candid remarks, which were very helpful. Mr. Sumada wanted to make a statement: There are a lot of great people in the County. In every department and every division, we have several really outstanding people that would make the private sector would contribute to the private sector tremendously. I have to think about it more. How can you make the system different, make sure you don't lose them? I actually, in one of the comments I had towards the end, it talks about human resource development. I brought a handout with me that I'd like to share. It's a presentation I made as part of a training class I made within our department, the Department of Public Works, when I was here the last time. This reflects what I learned. In any organization you have this pyramid of people that their level of performance the high performers are the stars and the other extreme are the poor performers, who may have good reason to perform poorly. The whole bunch of people in the middle, that's the majority. The star performers, no matter who the mayor is or who is their boss, they are going to work as hard as they can. That's just their nature. The poor performers also, on the other extreme, no matter how you try to motivate them, they have something that's going on that keeps them there. They could have been a star before, but something happened and they shifted to the dark side. The majority of people in the middle, in my experience, they put in a six -hour day. If I can get six hours out of them —the other two are personal phone calls, coffee breaks, talking to friends, warming up in the morning, whatever ifI can get six hours out of everybody, I'm happy. My challenge is where this square is. When there's a bad decision made, or politics, or preferential treatment, they get upset and start leaning to the dark side and their production goes down. And then now I'm dealing with an attitude. If something good happens and they're motivated, then they start going back to the light side. Your question, Mr. Sakaguchi, regarding how to keep good people my answer is, in my experience, deals with training. I'm a firm believer in that. We all came from whatever family we grew up into whatever work ethic we have. It's all different. We're all trying to weave into abroad diverse group of 15 people to reach a certain level. How to keep good people they're motivated to stay and choose public service for a reason, but we are going to lose some. The question is how to keep as many of them as possible, and keep them on the light side. To me, the greatest contributor to that is training. It's the training at the top and in the middle that's key. It's beyond the appointed official. It's the long- time guys and the ones just below them, not the appointed guys. That's the key to a strong and stable county government. If they have bad experiences and become poor managers, their whole standard for that group they are leading is low. How do we raise that level of professionalism? It's a crap shoot, how good that person's boss was five, ten years ago. If thatperson was old-fashioned, he's going to manage that same way when he gets to be a boss. How do you broaden the pool of good managers, and that's through training. I don't mean sending them to a canned program on the mainland. It's more through experience -based type training. That's my suggestion. It's a hard thing to deliver. Mr. Sakaguchi told Mr. Sumada that his father would be proud and explained to the others that his father was Mits Sumada. Mr. Sumada thanked the commissioners and left. 7.-17. DISCUSSION /ACTION ON (VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS') RESPONSES TO THE COMMISSION'S LETTER DATED APRIL 10, 2006 Mr. Joseph suggested tabling the rest of the agenda to the next meeting and only inviting one person to speak, that being Stanley Nakasone. Mr. Sakaguchi and Ms. Stremski agreed. Mr. Joseph said that in tabling the rest of the agenda, they could spend an hour on all of the communications. Ms. Garson said it should be done via a motion to defer to the next meeting Motion: Ms. Stremski moved to defer the communications to the next agenda. Mr. Sakaguchi seconded. Discussion: Ms. Nicholson said she does not see the point in talking about each one of the responses individually and that the responses need to be tied to when they talk about that department. Mr. Joseph said that they will still need a motion on each response to accept and file. Ms. Cushnie asked if they were deferring them until the next meeting and taking each one and filing them and talking about them later, and Mr. Joseph said yes. Vote: All members voted aye to defer the responses to the next agenda. 18. DISCUSSION ON LIST OF COUNTY -OWNED VEHICLES This item was also deferred to the next agenda. 16 19. DISCUSSION /ACTION REGARDING PRIORITIZING DEPARTMENTS/ BOARDS /COMMISSIONS OR ISSUES TO ACCOMPLISH THE MANDATE OF THE COST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION This item was also deferred to the next agenda. 20. DISCUSSION OF ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON NEXT AGENDA Mr. Joseph said he wanted to hear Stanley Nakasone, of the Highway Maintenance Division. Ms. Nicholson said they also, at the next meeting, need to make recommendations on what they heard at today's meeting, and that they should either start or finish with that. Mr. Joseph said they should start with the recommendations before they forget them and suggested they make their own notations today. So that would be at the top of the agenda. Another speaker could be brought in at 11:00 a.m. Ms. Garson pointed out that some of Mr. Sumada's recommendations relate to the Highways Division and asked whether they wanted to defer his Highways Division recommendations until hearing from Mr. Nakasone. Mr. Joseph said they actually should not make recommendations until they hear from the others in the Public Works Department. They have really only finished with Wastewater and Solid Waste. Ms. Nicholson said they should do their recommendations based on Mr. Dworsky's presentation on Solid Waste, and move on and finish the DPW before making any recommendations on the DPW. Mr. Sakaguchi asked if it would violate the Sunshine Law if they sent out their comments directly to the COGC's secretary. Ms. Nicholson felt that was a good idea, so they would come before all of them for consideration or adoption. Ms. Garson said they could do that. Their communications would be public, receive communication numbers, and be sent to the other commissioners. However, they could only be discussed at the meeting. Ms. Cushnie said it is procedural. If someone's comments do not make it to the secretary in time, they will not be listed as a communication on the next agenda. Ms. Nicholson pointed out that this would enable Ms. Cushnie to give some input (as this is her last meeting), and mailing in their recommendations may speed things along. Mr. Joseph encouraged the commissioners to submit comments and recommendations, so they could be included with the packet to be mailed to each of them before the next meeting. Ms. Garson said she would check with the Office of Information Practices to make sure this would be okay. Items 7 through 19 of today's agenda will be placed on the next agenda. And item 20 is always on the agenda. 17 21. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC No members of the public were present. 22. ANNOUNCEMENTS As several commissioners will be on trips in June, and Ms. Cushnie is leaving, Ms. Garson pointed out that if they announce their next meeting and it has to be changed, they will need to publish notice in two general newspapers. June 1, 2006, will not work due to both Mr. Sakaguchi's trip and Ms. Cushnie's move to Italy. In looking at June 8 for a meeting, Ms. Stremski said she may have a doctor appointment, but she will see if she can work that around the meeting. Mr. Sakaguchi said he would check and see if he is available on June 8, 2006. Ms. Garson suggested they set the meeting up for June 8 and the secretary will make phone calls to check for a quorum. If they have to cancel, a cancellation notice can be filed. Mr. Joseph announced that the next meeting is set for June 8, 2006, at 10:00 a.m., at the Office of the Corporation Counsel, upstairs in Suite 325. He thanked Pam Cushnie for her service on the Commission and her great articulation. She will be missed tremendously. 23. ADJOURNMENT Motion and Vote: Ms. Stremski moved to adjourn, Mr. Sakaguchi seconded, and all members voted aye to adjourn. The meeting adjourned at 12:23 p.m. Respectfully submitted: Mary E. Nosson, Secretary