HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-03-16 Cost of Government Commission MinutesCOST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION
County of Hawaii
MINUTES
March 16, 2006 — 10:00 a.m.
Department of Liquor Control — Conference Room
101 Aupuni Street, Suite 230
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
Commission members Myles Y. Miyasato, Chair
present: Wayne T. Joseph, Vice Chair
Pamela F. Cushnie, Commissioner
Marilyn L. Nicholson, Commissioner
Melvyn K. Sakaguchi, Commissioner
Barbara R. Stremski, Commissioner
Dix] e Kaetsu, Ex Officio Commissioner
Others present: Katherine A. Garson, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Mary Crosson, Secretary
Nancy Crawford, Deputy Director, Finance Department
1. CALL TO ORDER
The Chair called the meeting to order at 10:02 a.m.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES FROM MARCH 2, 2006, MEETING
The Chair asked if there were any additions or corrections to the minutes. Ms. Stremski
moved to approve the minutes, Mr. Sakaguchi seconded the motion, and all members
voted aye to approve the minutes of March 2, 2006.
3. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC
No members of the public were present. However, two written communications from the
public were reviewed:
a. Comm. No. 2006 -04: Letter to Francis Akamine from Mayor Kim, with Francis
Akamine's February 16, 2006, letter attached regarding the Department of Water
Supply's unnecessary enclosure of return envelopes for payment with customers
who have automatic bill payment.
The commissioners discussed the reasonableness of Mr. Akamine's suggestion
and whether it would be difficult to change the computer program that handles
this. The Chair told the commissioners they could move to accept this
communication and later include it as part of the summary in their report.
Motion: Ms. Stremski so moved, and Ms. Nicholson seconded the motion.
In discussion, Ms. Cushnie said she did not want the Commission to consider
every communication on a separate basis. She does want an acknowledgment
letter sent to Mr. Akamine, thanking him for his concerns and informing him that
the Commission would be considering his suggestion and collecting information,
as there was not enough information at this time to make a decision.
Mr. Sakaguchi spoke against deferring the matter further and said that because it
was a simple matter, he was for the motion and wanted to just get the
communication off the table and included in their recommendations.
Ms. Cushme said she wants further research into this, as the Water Department
may have already done its own survey and may be working on a better way to do
its billing. She does not want to make a blanket decision, as she was concerned
that if the Commission makes a decision, it may not be able to reverse it easily.
Ms. Nicholson said that it was just a recommendation that was made and that it
seemed reasonable to make a recommendation on something like this.
The Chair agreed that it was just a recommendation and that if the Water
Department had already looked into this issue, it could so inform the Commission
in its report in response to the Commission's report. He said he would be in favor
of including it as a suggestion in the report. He said that the Commission cannot
investigate every issue down to the wire, as it would take too much time.
Ms. Cushnie stated she was concerned that the Commission was piece- mealing it.
The Chair indicated that the issue could be reviewed again at the tenth month,
when the Commission would be preparing its summary. He said it could be put
on the record that it will come back at the time the summary is being prepared;
and if they found out the Department already tried to correct the situation, it could
be deleted.
Mr. Sakaguchi agreed that was a good way to handle it and that the agency can
always respond that it is not feasible.
Vote: The Chair called for a vote. All members voted aye. The motion was
carried. Mr. Akamine's communication is to be included as part of the
Commission's summary.
b. Comm. No. 2006 -05: Transmittal from Andrew Levin of a 10/12/05 letter from
Jerry Merrill offering suggestions for the COGC.
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Ms. Cushnie noted Mr. Merrill's word of caution at the end of his letter, that it
may be difficult to get information from people if they believe their job or
position of authority may be threatened. She stated she hoped that it would come
out at today's meeting how their task would be approached, with reassurance that
they would not be micromanaging.
Ms. Stremski and Mr. Sakaguchi both stated that the issue is complicated and that
they don't have expertise.
The Chair informed the commissioners that the letter could be filed and revisited
later.
Ms. Cushme stated she would like a copy of the "Reinventing Government" book
and "Decisions `88" that were referenced in the communication. Ms. Garson
indicated she would look for those publications and if she could get a copy, she
would bring it for everyone to look at, depending on the cost.
The Chair said he had a comment on the communication - -that it was asking the
Commission to reinvent the wheel. He said he hopes that the commissioners look
for their own way of proceeding instead of looking back at what everyone else
did. Together they are a group and their ideas can be just as valuable as anyone
else's. He asked if there were a motion to file the communication.
Motion: Mr. Joseph so moved.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked if they were going to reconsider the communication later,
and the Chair indicated that the motion was just to file it.
Ms. Garson said she would follow up on the book and could agendize the matter.
Ms. Stremski seconded the motion to file the communication.
In discussion, Ms. Nicholson stated the motion was to table the communication
and questioned whether they could potentially look at the referenced material, and
the Chair responded that it could be agendized later.
Ms. Cushnie asked whether it was proper procedure when filing a communication
to send a letter of acknowledgement, and Mr. Sakaguchi stated that would be a
good idea.
Ms. Garson mentioned that these are older communications that went to the
Mayor, not specifically to the Commission. She said if the Commission receives
something, it can be acknowledged with a courtesy letter.
Vote: The Chair asked for a vote on all who were in favor of filing the
communication. All members voted aye.
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4. APPROVAL OF ADDENDUM AND /OR SUPPLEMENTAL AGENDA
There were no addendums to the agenda.
5. PRESENTATION BY FINANCE DEPARTMENT REGARDING LAND OWNED
BY COUNTY OF HAWAII
Ms. Garson introduced Nancy Crawford and Dixie Kaetsu. Ms. Kaetsu stated that though
she was an ex officio member, she would not always be able to attend the meetings, and
she hoped the Commission's vacant positions could be filled soon.
Ms. Crawford stated that she is the deputy director of the Finance Department, and she
handed out to the commissioners a list of County -owned lands. She also had one copy of
a land inventory which listed all County property, including easements, parks,
cemeteries, gyms, drainage improvements, and roadways. She could make this document
available if requested.
Ms. Crawford stated that most of the County's lands were acquired in 1994 in lieu of
taxes owed when Hamakua Sugar went under. The County received the lands as
settlement in lieu of property tax. Because the County received the land this way, it did
not have a specific use for it, and it is not particularly well suited for other uses. Thus,
the County felt it appropriate to sell the land and bring the proceeds back into the General
Fund.
She stated that the first property on the list has highway frontage, and the County is
currently surveying about 140 acres for County use. It is anticipated that the County will
eventually have a highway baseyard, a volunteer fire station, and other uses for that land.
Other properties in Paauilo and Hamakua are to be sold. There is a large, over 2,000 -acre
parcel in Kaupulena, between Honokaa and Waipio, which may be of interest to people,
though it is overgrown with trees.
The process of selling the land moves slowly, as no employee is dedicated just to that job.
The County is in the process of creating a property management section to help with this,
and also to deal with the requirements of the Public Access /Open Space Commission.
Total sales between December, 2000, and last October netted a little over $3,000,000.
The total included land sold in Hamakua, as well as the Civil Service office building and
a small geothermal property. They were getting ready to auction off all the Paauilo
Mauka properties when they became aware of a requirement to have environmental
assessments done, and these don't happen quickly. They are contracting with a company
to do the assessments.
They are not yet trying to sell the top property on the list, as they are trying to carve out a
portion for the County. However, the remaining Paauilo Mauka lands are to be auctioned
off some time after July 1, pending the assessments.
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Ms. Kaetsu asked if the assessed value was based on property tax records, and Ms.
Crawford answered yes, that the values are low because they're not based on the
appraised value. The values probably do not represent current market values.
Ms. Kaetsu asked Ms. Crawford to talk about the two Kona properties, as those were a
different situation. Ms. Crawford explained that the County acquired two properties in
Kona that are small, less than one acre of usable area. However, these properties have
unique requirements, and the Council wants whoever buys them to provide amenities to
people, as access is unusual. Bill Takaba of the Finance Department is working on doing
a negotiated sale to meet everyone's requirements. One of the parcels is a small
triangular piece on Henry Street, with a stone wall and drainage issues. Both properties
are prime commercial properties. They are also thinking about swapping them for
properties that would be more useful to the County, such as property suitable for a police
substation.
Ms. Cushnie asked whether the sale of land of people delinquent in paying their property
tax balances out the amount those people generally owe. Ms. Crawford said that type of
land sale is handled through a separate mechanism, via auctions held at least twice a year.
The upset price of the lands at an auction is the unpaid taxes, unpaid penalties and
interest, and the County's portion of the cost to sell (title reports, advertising, etc).
Sometimes the County is not able to sell the land for the upset price or higher, and these
have gone unsold at auction. A lot of the property the County has gotten this way is
vacant land in Puna or Hawaiian Ocean View Estates, where property values used to be
very low and people weren't interested enough to keep up with the taxes. Since the
market turned, the County has been able to sell all of those lands at auction. However,
the County does not make money on this. If a parcel is sold for more than the cost to the
County, the extra goes back to the owner.
Ms. Cushnie questioned whether this was an efficient use of government property and
employees, especially when the market is bad. Ms. Kaetsu said she wanted to respond to
this. She has been with the County 28 years, 22 of which have been with the Finance
Department. The list of land Ms. Crawford brought shows the only time the County
accepted property in lieu of the taxes. The list is the result of a huge bankruptcy case and
lawsuit and was the only way the County could realize anything on the delinquent taxes.
The County does not take title to the delinquent parcels. It has a lien, a default, and holds
a public auction to recover its costs. The other costs go to the people who were in
default. This process is established by law and is the County's legal recourse to collect
on delinquent property taxes. The lands the County owns in Hamakua are not typical —
they are separate from other property tax delinquencies.
Ms. Cushnie commented that this is a new adventure for the County then, and asked
whether it was to continue or has a beginning and an end. Ms. Kaetsu said she hopes it
has a beginning and an end.
Ms. Cushnie asked whether it was efficient, and Ms. Kaetsu answered that the County
felt it was more efficient than other things they might do with the property, such as
leasing it. Doing so would create property management issues, which should not be a
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function of the County. It was felt that trying to sell the lands was the best thing to do,
and she said the County is moving towards a more efficient way of handling this by
creating a Property Management Division within the Department of Finance. She said
this Division has been needed for years and will be able to follow up on these lands and
get the inventory down more quickly.
Ms. Cushnie said she is concerned that the County is generating jobs here, and questioned
what happens to the jobs if the tax relief ends. She asked Ms. Crawford about her list,
how much land moved through sales to generate income, and Ms. Crawford answered
none. Ms. Kaetsu said there is an exception with little remnants that come up to sell, but
those would not be on the short list of properties, but should be on the complete list.
Mr. Sakaguchi questioned, to clarify, whether the County owns any land other than what
is on the short list and the full list and whether the County is like the State, which owns a
lot of land. Ms. Kaetsu answered that the County is not like the State at all in that
respect.
Mr. Sakaguchi said he was confused that the County did not want to get into property
management, yet was looking for a property manager. Ms. Kaetsu said a property
manager has been needed for years, and even more so now because of the newly created
Public Access, Open Space, Natural Resources Preservation Commission. That
Commission is supposed to identify and prioritize important lands that should be
preserved for public access to shorelines and mountains and other resources, such as open
spaces and beaches. The County is concerned that as time goes on and development
occurs, there will be less open space and land available to the public. The County's
administration will be keeping track of the properties on the Public Access Commission's
list and watching to see whether the lands come up on the market or get noticed for
condemnation, etc. The County has been putting money in the budget for this, and it is a
brand new program which will take a lot of resources to be done right. She said they are
not creating a huge bureaucracy —there will be one manager and one support staff, and
they will be following up on what the County is supposed to do for the Public Access
Commission. She said the County always has issues where it needs to acquire lands for
roads, or has to do a condemnation, and that there are always land issues coming up.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked that, since in the future the County might acquire land for future
use, whether that is a function of the State government. Ms. Kaetsu said the functions
overlap and that the County acquires property for County purposes and the State for State
purposes.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked why the County can't just go out and buy, why it needs to fund two
positions. Ms. Kaetsu replied that the County cannot buy as easily as a private company,
due to possible environmental issues, hazardous materials, etc.
Mr. Sakaguchi said that if he were to buy a piece of property, he would expect it to come
clear of those problems. He wouldn't need to hire someone to do those things, as the
seller should guarantee the property. Ms. Crawford said that Mr. Sakaguchi would be
representing himself, but the County needs someone to take the responsibility of buying
that property. So far, the Director of Finance and sometimes other employees take that
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responsibility on as part of their jobs, including sometimes leasing properties for offices;
She said that right now the County is fortunate in having a Director of Finance who is
good at land issues and has a background that allows him to negotiate leases and
purchase land. However, the County might not always have such a director. Also, it is
felt that there is enough activity, especially with the Public Access Commission, to justify
having a land property manager. That position will also be over the staff that takes care
of personal property inventory, vehicles, equipment, etc.
Mr. Sakaguchi stated that it is not the Commission's intention to micromanage and said
they are just trying to understand. He was under the impression the County owned a lot
of land. Ms. Crawford said the County owns the County parks land.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked how long the land on the list has been for sale, and Ms. Crawford
answered that they started working on this around late 2001 and that the land hasn't been
on the market the whole time. They had to figure out what action to take and go to the
Council for authorization to take action. She agreed that ideally, however, the land
would already have been sold. She said survey work is another issue, as the parcels are
large and need surveys.
Mr. Joseph asked if the land was acquired in 1994, and Ms. Crawford answered yes,
through court settlement.
The Chair stated that when this issue was brought up at the last meeting, the topic was on
vacant lands and whether they have been a burden to the County because of the work
involved in keeping them clear of being a hazard such as a fire hazard. He asked if the
County has any vacant lands that are a burden. Ms. Kaetsu said she could think of one
such parcel, up in Kaumana. Homes close to that parcel receive rubbish from it. The
County was getting ready to sell it when the environmental assessment issue came up.
What also turned up was a master plan that showed this land to be a wilderness park. So
they ran into legal roadblocks, and she doesn't know the current status of this parcel. She
is not aware of other burdensome parcels, but they may be out there.
Ms. Stremski asked about areas which get developed and have portions set aside for
parks. Ms. Kaetsu said if it is dedicated to the County, the County owns the park, but
some subdivisions have private parks. Ms. Garson said another possibility is ownership
by a homeowner's association, which might set a parcel aside for park purposes that
would not necessarily be dedicated to the County.
Mr. Sakaguchi said he is concerned about liability, as he can see vacant lands as being a
problem in the future. He said he wants to look at the long list of the County's lands.
Ms. Nicholson asked what the County's stance is on private subdivisions when land is set
aside for parks, whether the County wants the land dedicated or encourages private
development of the parks. Ms. Kaetsu said that is a good question as far as policy. If the
land is developed it becomes the County's responsibility, although the Parks and
Recreation Department already has many parks to maintain and its employees are
stretched thin. However, the County does recognize the responsibility to provide parks
for a community.
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Mr. Sakaguchi said that the Commission could recommend that the County look at the
zoning requirements for parks. Ms. Kaetsu said the Commission should talk to the
Planning Department about how it works with a developer when a new subdivision is
being planned.
The Chair said he has noticed that the Planning Department is having community
associations and residents pay a fee that is used to maintain private parks. The money is
used to provide efficient lighting and chains or gates to lock up at a decent time. Mr.
Sakaguchi said that is a good idea, as the beneficiaries are the people and the County can
take care of the infrastructure. If a community feels it owns a park, it will get tougher on
the vandals.
The Chair asked if there were any more discussion.
Motion: Mr. Sakaguchi moved to include in the Commission's recommendations asking
the County to get moving on this land stuff, as it has been four to five years and the
property is still not sold. The Chair clarified that the motion is to recommend that the
Finance Department expedite these matters and not have sales sit on the table.
Ms. Cushnie seconded the motion.
There was no further discussion.
Vote: All commissioners voted in favor of the motion.
Ms. Cushnie said she wanted to move for, or begin discussion on, a clear accounting of
the costs involved in hiring people, housing people, and providing staff to support them,
as these costs should be passed on to the people owing delinquent taxes. She is
concerned that the County is paying more than its fair share.
Ms. Crawford explained that when property is sold because of delinquent taxes, included
in the upset price are the costs for the process of doing the paperwork and administrative
costs, in addition to the direct costs.
Ms. Cushnie asked if it was generous enough to compensate the County, and Ms.
Crawford responded that the County is recouping the cost of selling the land. They can
document how much time is spent processing the sale. She said it would be more
difficult to keep track of things like the letters and envelopes sent out which don't receive
responses.
Ms. Cushnie said the County court prorate some of the major costs and pass them on to
the delinquent tax payers, and Mr. Sakaguchi said the County should have a profit on
this.
Ms. Garson said it is all dictated by statute.
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Ms. Sakaguchi again said that he wanted a copy of the full report, and Ms. Crawford said
she would leave it with us.
6. DISCUSSION ON RESPONSES RECEIVED FROM DEPARTMENTS
REGARDING PREVIOUS COGC RECOMMENDATIONS CONTAINED IN
REPORT
The Chair noted that the Commission had received these responses at the last meeting,
and he wanted to make a comment. - He said when people hear about the Commission,
they think it is about cutting back on things to save money. However, he said that in
order to save money, sometimes you have to spend money, such as on a computer. He
asked the commissioners to keep an open mind through the months, as the Commission is
not all about cutting back. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money.
Mr. Sakaguchi said that many departments, however, are asking for things that have
nothing to do with saving money. He questioned whether the Commission was to
consider only things that save money, or also consider things a department may want.
The Chair replied that a consideration was whether the job would be done more
efficiently.
Mr. Sakaguchi said that would open the door to a lot of things and asked whether it was
the Commission's responsibility to cost things out, to see if there would be a savings.
The Chair clarified that the Commission was just to make recommendations.
Ms. Kaetsu stated that some of the commissioners' questions could be answered by
reading what the Commission is supposed to do in the Charter. She read from the
Charter: The County is to promote economy, efficiency, and improved service by
limiting inefficient expenditures, eliminating duplication and overlapping of services,
consolidating services, and abolishing services not necessary to the efficient conduct of
government. The Commission is to study and investigate the organizations and methods
of operations of all departments, commissions, boards, offices and other instrumentalities
of all branches of the County government and determine what changes, if any, may be
desirable to accomplish the policies set forth herein.
Mr. Sakagucbi stated that the Commission has the prerogative to concentrate on certain
things and it would be good to think about those things on which it should concentrate.
The Chair noted that the next item on the agenda was for that purpose.
Mr. Sakaguchi questioned the purpose of the reports, and Ms. Kaetsu said her intent
when she requested the information was to show the Commission that the departments
did take the former COGC's recommendations seriously, implemented what they could,
and explained why some couldn't be implemented. She said the departments do follow
up and that since this is not an ongoing commission, there is not a lot of opportunity for
feedback. She stated it would be wise for the commissioners to focus their energies.
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Ms. Cushnie asked if any of the prior recommendations were filtered by the Mayor
before going to the departments, and Ms. Kaetsu said no, that there was nothing political
about it. Recommendations were submitted directly to the departments, and it was up to
them to do what they could.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Joseph moved to accept and file the responses received from the
departments. Mr. Sakaguchi seconded the motion, and all commissioners voted in favor
of accepting and filing the responses.
7. DISCUSSION /ACTION REGARDING APPROACH TO TAKE TO TIMELY
ACCOMPLISH MANDATE OF THE COST OF GOVERNMENT COMMISSION
The Chair suggested the commissioners have an informal discussion and that a motion
could be entertained as they went along.
Mr. Sakaguchi said there were two kinds of recommendations they could make: a broad -
brush recommendation going across the departments, and then specific recommendations
looking at particular departments. He said he spoke to some friends for broad -brush
ideas. Suggestions they made included leasing or selling all vacant County lands; another
was giving computerization for all departments a high priority; and another was leasing
all County vehicles instead of purchasing them. He said that leasing vehicles would
benefit the County by providing the subject employees with new cars every three years or
so; and depreciation costs, per a car dealer, could be passed on as savings.
The Chair said the discussion is to make recommendations on how they are to approach
their task, and whether certain departments were to be targeted. Mr. Sakaguchi explained
that his suggestion is to do a broad -brush recommendation and then look at a few
departments.
Mr. Joseph stated that he wanted to focus on what the Mayor had told them, which was to
look at two to three high - profile departments and do a thorough job on those departments.
The Chair said that he wanted to actually target a department and get moving and that
Solid Waste was his pick to start with.
Ms. Garson explained that Solid Waste is part of the Department of Environmental
Management.
The Chair reiterated that he wants to target that department, as there is a real concern if
the island has to truck all its waste. However the waste issue is decided, it is going to be
a major cost. He said that since the issue will not be resolved before the end of their
term, their input will be taken into consideration in how the waste issue is decided.
Ms. Cushme asked whether the commissioners were allowed to specify departments, and
Ms. Garson said that though the Charter says "all" departments, the Mayor had said that
would be a daunting task. She said that in order to comply in good faith with the
mandate of the Charter, she would prefer that the commissioners prioritize so at the end
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they can say they prioritized because of the eleven -month deadline. The broad -brush
approach could also be considered.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked which departments the Mayor had wanted reviewed, and the Chair
replied that the Mayor had suggested Environmental Management, the Police
Department, and the Public Works Department. He clarified that he, too, wanted to get
started somewhere.
Ms. Cushnie stated she liked the idea of prioritizing as well, and that now she understood
the rationalization.
Ms. Garson told the commissioners that if they get lost, to go back and read the Charter
mandate, which is in their binders along with a list of all County departments.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked the necessity of reviewing the waste issue, since the Council was
currently evaluating it, but the Chair answered that there was no definite time when this
issue would be decided upon.
Ms. Kaetsu explained that the Council sets policy, and the administration implements it
as set by the Council. She said if the COGC looked at Solid Waste, they would not just
be looking at the high profile issues, but the operations of the Department as well. As an
example, an issue is whether there is enough staffing at the transfer stations. She said it
is not clear that the COGC would have input into the Referral for Proposal process for
waste reduction technology, as there is specific State law on how to handle procurements.
Motion: Mr. Joseph moved to have the Department of Environmental Management set
as a priority and to have a representative at the next meeting. Ms. Stremski seconded the
motion.
In discussion, Ms. Nicholson noted that there are three divisions within the
Environmental Management Department, each with its own division head, and asked if
the COGC would be asking for one or all of those heads for a presentation.
The Chair said it may be good to have Barbara Bell do an overall presentation.
Ms. Kaetsu said that whoever is to speak needs a clear idea of what to talk about so
she /he can focus and bring materials. Ms. Garson said examples of materials would be
organizational charts or work flow charts to explain what they do and how it is done. Ms.
Kaetsu said division chiefs could be brought in to talk in more detail about their
operations.
Ms. Nicholson said there should be a back -up person to attend in case Ms. Bell is at a
conference or unavailable and that they should possibly list several departmental
presentations on one agenda sous to make the most of their time.
Mr. Joseph stated that a motion was still on the table and that the Commission does not
need to rely only on Ms. Bell for a presentation, that someone else could do it.
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Vote: The Chair called for a vote on the motion to review the Department of
Environmental Management first. All members voted aye on the motion.
The Chair clarified that the Commission was still on item 7 of the agenda and asked if
there were any more discussion on approach.
Motion and Vote: Ms. Stremski moved to have the Department of Public Works the
Commission's second priority. Ms. Cushnie seconded the motion. All members voted
aye on making the Department of Public Works the second priority.
Ms. Kaetsu said those two departments are good to start with, as some of the issues
overlap between them. Up until 2000, it was all one department.
Motion: Mr. Sakaguchi moved that at some point in the future, the Commission spend
time considering broad -brush recommendations. The Chair said there is not a problein
with agendizing something like that, that it could be placed on the agenda at any time and
did not need a motion.
Ms. Garson said that since the Commission only has eleven months, it would be good if
they could set a tentative roadmap down.
Ms. Cushnie said she wanted to have at least seven departments prioritized to make the
best use of time if a department representative wasn't available.
Ms. Garson stated it might be good to set two or three on an agenda, because the
commissioners might have lots of questions and want a representative to come back. She
is also concerned about the time if there is only one department per agenda.
Ms. Cushnie said she wanted to discuss Parks and Recreation, as she agreed with Ms
Stremski that it should be their second priority department.
Ms. Kaetsu said that Parks and Recreation is a big department and the commissioners
may want to hit areas the last Commission did not get to. If there are specific concerns in
an area, there is nothing to prevent them from looking at that area. Ms. Garson said they
could also look at something that came out of the prior COGC report, to follow up on.
Ms. Kaetsu also said that the Planning Department is another important department,
though not as large as Parks and Recreation. The Planning Department has long -range
responsibilities and is trying to do abetter job at integrating. She also said that since the
Commission was interested in liability, it may want to look at the new Risk Manager
position under the Department of Finance.
Ms. Cushnie asked how that position got created, and Ms. Garson explained that the
Council started discussing it, because every time there is a lawsuit and a settlement offer
is on the table, the Corporation Counsel has to present the case to the Council and request
its approval to settle. The Council always wants to know what is going to be done to
address the problem of future liability, so there was a collective idea to hire someone to
be on the lookout for potential areas of liability.
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Ms. Nicholson suggested prioritizing by departments and then once in a while taking a
broad brush approach to cover several departments.
Mr. Sakaguchi expressed concern that if too many things were placed on the agenda,
members of the public may show up on an issue which will not be addressed. Ms.
Garson said that the agenda could be written in such a way that times could be given for
the various agenda items (e.g., 10:00 a.m. for one issue and 11:30 a.m. for another issue)
so people wouldn't have to sit around waiting.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked if people from Waste Management and the Public Works
Department were to be at the next meeting, and the Chair said yes.
Ms. Nicholson said that was not her understanding —she just thought they were
prioritizing departments.
Ms. Garson reminded them that item 7 of the agenda, which was still to come, was
discussion of items to be placed on the next agenda.
The Chair said that because the Environmental Management Department is so large, with
three divisions, it may not be a problem to have their representatives come to a meeting
and have a full discussion on it. Mr. Sakaguchi said he would be comfortable with that.
The Chair asked if the commissioners wanted to list a third priority department, or a
board or commission.
Motion: Ms. Nicholson moved to set the Planning Department as the third priority. Ms.
Stremski seconded the motion.
In discussion, Ms. Cushnie said there is nothing to prevent them from asking Parks and
Recreation to provide the Commission with something in written form.
Ms. Garson said she brought a sample letter the last COGC did, which requested that the
departments provide various documents and answer the listed questions.
Ms. Cushnie asked how independently the Commission could look at these and ask for
info, and Ms. Garson replied that the Commission has full authority to ask anything it
wants.
Ms. Cushme asked if she could go on her own to a department to ask for information, and
Ms. Garson said she could, but the information would need to be shared with everyone.
She said it may be more efficient to send out communications and when responses are
received forward them so that everyone is dealing with the same information. A problem
in going independently is it may create an issue that would be better addressed with the
Commission as a whole.
Ms. Cushme said she liked the idea of the letter, as they would have time to read
responses and material and get brought up to speed.
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The Chair reminded the commissioners that there was a motion on the floor for the
Planning Department to be the third priority and asked if there were any further
discussion.
Vote: Upon no further discussion, the Chair called for a vote, and all members voted aye
and made the Planning Department the third priority.
Motion: Ms. Cushnie then moved to generate a letter asking for general information
from all departments. She asked whether commissions should be included. Ms. Garson
suggested a separate letter for boards and commissions, as most of them have one staff
person and no finances except for meals provided by Charter mandate.
The Chair stated that the motion was just to send a letter to departments.
Mr. Sakaguchi seconded the motion, but said that he wanted to focus on the remaining
departments rather than revisit the departments that were reviewed by the prior
Commission and asking for the same materials and same questions those departments had
to respond to before.
Ms. Garson said a third letter could be done to those departments that were reviewed by
the prior Commission.
Ms. Cusbme suggested a letter assuring them that their prior report was received,
enclosing a copy, and asking if there were any changes or updates.
Ms. Nicholson suggested sending out letters to the three prioritized departments and
sending other letters later as the Commission moved ahead.
Ms. Garson explained that she was only able to find two draft reports from the prior
Commission, which had been sent to the commissioners. She said more could be found
out by reading the prior Commission's minutes, which would be time - consuming. She
said that whatever letter the Commission sends needs to come from the Commission, not
from her.
The commissioners continued discussing what to include in the letter to departments,
whether they should focus on certain things, or have departments list their priorities, and
agreed they did not want to generate documents which they could not adequately address.
Mr. Sakaguchi said that if he were to receive a letter such as the one being discussed, he
would be upset at the work it would entail. Ms. Cushnie did not agree and stated that a
report is due only every four years, and it gives departments a chance to express changes
and needs they see in long -term goals. She does not feel requesting a one -page report is
asking too much.
Mr. Sakaguchi asked whether there was a mechanism for the Commission to invite
comments from the public, and the Chair stated that the meetings are open to the public.
Ms. Stremski stated that the notices of meetings are published in the paper and are on the
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County's bulletin board. Mr. Sakaguchi said that those are only legal requirements and
asked how the others felt.
Ms. Garson stated that the County publishes a newsletter and there are certain people on a
list who receive the newsletter, as it is a public document. Anyone can submit items via
e -mail to include in that newsletter.
The Chair noted that there was a motion on the table about whether the Commission
should send a letter out to departments and a separate letter to boards and commissions
and requested that the commissioners stick to the motion. The purpose of the letters
would be to get information from departments on what things they would like the
Commission to consider.
Ms. Nicholson stated that it was not clear what letters were to be sent and that she heard
discussion on three letters. One focused on those departments they prioritized; a second
letter was to commissions; and a third letter was to all departments, asking for a one -page
report wherein they could provide updates or ideas or priorities so the Commission could
get a broad overview to help on those issues.
The Chair noted that the third letter was a suggestion.
Motion Clarified: Ms. Cushnie moved to send a letter requesting updated information to
all department heads, limiting their response to one to two pages of new priorities, ideas,
or changes they would like to recommend to the Commission. Mr. Sakaguchi seconded
the motion.
Ms. Cushnie said that she was restating, or clarifying, her motion, as she had kept
changing it.
The Chair said he felt it would be good to send a letter to all departments, even if they
were analyzed by the prior Commission, as some departments may have a concern that
came up. Though they had prioritized only three departments, he would hate to miss
concerns from other departments. A department may have a suggestion that was not
followed up on, or may have a suggestion they feel would work and want to bring it up.
He stated that his opinion was that they could review all the responses, and if there was
nothing there, they could go to the bottom of the list.
Vote: The Chair asked for a vote from all who were in favor of the motion. All
commissioners voted aye on sending a letter to all departments and boards and
commissions.
(Ms. Stremski left the meeting, as she was not feeling well)
The commissioners and Ms. Garson continued discussing what to put in the letter. Ms.
Garson stated that she could draft the letter but needed direction from the commissioners.
She stated she could put the draft on the next agenda for the commissioners to review and
make any changes prior to it being sent out.
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Ms. Cushnie stated that she wanted the letter to basically include what was written in the
Charter and wanted the responses limited to one to two pages.
After further discussion, the commissioners decided that a one -month deadline for
departments to respond was sufficient.
Ms. Nicholson asked if the Commission would be sending a letter out to the
Environmental Management Department, requesting specific information to be included
at the next meeting. The Chair noted that it would be difficult for the Department to have
a response before the next meeting.
Ms. Garson stated that the County website is an excellent source for information about
organizational charts, although she is not certain that the Environmental Management
Department's chart is on the site.
Ms. Garson stated that she needs to be able to give the Department direction on what to
expect and what to bring to the meeting. As well, the agenda needs to be particular
enough to notify the public on what is going to be discussed.
Mr. Sakaguchi stated that the letter the Commission sends should convey that the
Commission wants to help the departments and is looking for their suggestions and input.
They should not just be doing a presentation but should feel free to express their thoughts
on issues they feel are important. He wants to have a dialog with them. He wanted to be
friendly with the departments and not adversarial.
The Chair asked if there were any further discussion on item 7, and there was none.
8. DISCUSSION REGARDING EACH COMMISSIONER'S VIEW ON THE
CONCEPT OF PRIVATIZATION
Mr. Sakaguchi stated that the privatization issue could be taken up with a broad -brush
stroke and added to an agenda.
Ms. Nicholson suggested asking the department speakers whether there was a place in
their department for privatization during their presentations.
Ms. Cushnie asked for an operating definition of privatization and precedents that were
set here and in other places.
Ms. Garson said it has more of a legal definition involving taking a service that was
typically provided by, for example, civil servants and farming it out to a private entity.
There was a landmark case around 1996 which resulted in Act 90, which is a statute that
sets out under what circumstances a government agency can hire outside people to do
functions that are customarily performed by civil servants. She stated she could get a
copy of Act 90 for the commissioners. Ms. Garson also explained that when the County
is going to contract out, there is a whole checklist to go through involving the reasons for
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the contract and how it will save costs. She can provide the questionnaire the
departments go through to justify hiring a private entity.
Mr. Sakaguchi commented that he felt the County should outsource its disaster relief and
that it would be good to bring the issue up with the departments.
Ms. Garson said she could collect the information and provide it to the commissioners,
but it would need to be an agenda item if they wanted to discuss it at the next meeting.
The Chair stated that if the Commission wanted to discuss privatization as a major issue,
it would need to be agendized. However, if it were to be discussed as a topic under a
department, it would not need to be agendized.
Ms. Garson asked if they wanted the privatization issue to be included in the letter to the
Environmental Management Department. It will be included.
(The Chair called a 5-minute break at 12: 08 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 12:17 p.m.)
9. DISCUSSION /DECISION ON FUTURE MEETING TIMES, DATES, AND
PLACES
Ms. Garson reported that she had spoken to Commissioner Ombac regarding meeting on
Monday, April 3, 2006, and he stated he would be there. He stated he would attend this
meeting and then decide what he wanted to do.
Ms. Garson reported that Ms. Ferrantino did withdraw from the Commission and that
other commissioners are being sought from districts 7 and S.
Ms. Garson said that she needed to know if the commissioners wanted videoconferencing
available. Although the two seats on that side are empty, there is still the public on the
Kona side. She was told that videoconferencing places were available across the island,
so the commissioners needed to let her know if they wanted it looked into.
Ms. Cushnie asked if they could still meet with the two vacancies, as long as they had
five commissioners attending; and Ms. Garson said yes.
Ms. Nicholson stated that she has a problem with meeting on April 3, as well as other
Mondays due to Mondays being very busy work days for her. She could possibly make
the April 3 meeting if it were held later in the day. The Chair apologized and explained
that the decision to meet on April 3 was made at the prior meeting when she was not
present, in order to accommodate Mr. Ombac's schedule.
Mr. Sakaguchi said he also could not be present on April 3, as he would be in Asia.
Motion: Mr. Joseph moved to keep the meetings on the Thursday schedule. Mr.
Sakaguchi seconded the motion.
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In discussion, Mr. Joseph said things will be difficult if they start making allowances for
people's schedules. If they cannot fit into a set schedule, they should think about not
serving on the Commission. He did not want to set a precedent by having a fluctuating
schedule and said that for the community and their own purposes, they should lock into
the every other Thursday schedule and stay there.
Mr. Sakaguchi said he is flexible but feels they should be accommodating. He stated that
no one from the Mayor's Office had told him that the meetings were set by regulations
and that it would behoove the Mayor's Office to let commission people know about
mandated schedules.
Ms. Garson said she was partly responsible, as she could have contacted them ahead of
time on this, and she learned a lesson because of Ms. Ferrantino withdrawing. She said
the rules on when the Commission meets could be changed.
Mr. Sakaguchi said it would confuse everyone if they started deviating, and Ms. Cushme
said they would need to know the schedule if there were two new commissioners to come
on board.
Mr. Joseph stated that having a firm schedule was in their best interests.
Ms. Garson asked if they still wanted to keep the April 3 meeting, and Mr. Joseph said he
wanted April 6 to be the next meeting.
The Chair mentioned that Mr. Ombac had already been asked to attend on April 3, and
Mr. Joseph said he felt Mr. Ombac would understand the problems involved in changing
the regular schedule. Mr. Joseph also stated that he made the motion for purposes of
discussion.
Ms. Cushnie said the problem with meeting on April 3 is that there may not be a quorum,
and Ms. Stremski would need to be polled.
Mr. Joseph said he would prefer to accommodate a member that will be attending for the
next eleven months than one that probably would not.
Ms. Cushnie suggested that Ms. Garson just called Mr. Ombac and inform him of the
Commission's decision, with their regrets.
Ms. Garson said that the next meeting date would need to be announced at this meeting,
and the cancellation of the April 3 meeting published and the notice pulled back from the
newspapers.
Vote: The Chair called for a vote on the motion to keep the meetings scheduled for every
other Thursday. Mr. Joseph, Ms. Cushnie, Ms. Nicholson, and the Chair voted aye. Mr.
Sakaguchi was opposed.
IN
Ms. Garson stated that pending further instruction, she would not proceed with
videoconferencing arrangements.
10. DISCUSSION ON SETTING A CAPON LENGTH OF MEETINGS
Motion: Mr. Sakaguchi moved to set a cap of two and a half hours for the length of
meetings. Ms. Cushnie seconded the motion.
In discussion, the Chair expressed that when they have an agenda and a quorum, he
would like to finish the items on the agenda. His personal feeling is that he does not want
to restrict the time. However, if someone has to go someplace, such as to a doctor
appointment, that person can be excused while everyone else stays.
Mr. Sakaguchi stated that he made this motion because he has sat in many meetings, and
after a certain amount of time has passed, he has problems paying attention and does not
function well. He feels a lot could be accomplished in two and a half hours, as it would
keep them focused.
Ms. Cushnie stated that she needs to eat and asked if they could take lunch breaks and
then return to meetings, and Mr. Joseph said he would be opposed to that.
Ms. Nicholson said she would need to get back to work. She said that in meetings she
has attended, if the agenda is not completed, the incomplete items are just deferred to the
next meeting.
Mr. Sakaguchi apologized that the morning of the last meeting he had not eaten breakfast
and is diabetic, so he was having problems.
Mr. Joseph said that he agrees it would be good if meetings were limited to two and a
half hours, but it should not be set as a formal time limit, and it should be at the Chair's
discretion.
Ms. Garson said she could bring bento lunches and they could work through lunch.
Ms. Cushnie suggested aiming to end meetings at 12:30 p.m., but not having it carved in
stone.
Ms. Garson said the motion and the second could be withdrawn, and the time deadline
could be informally out there, if they desired.
The Chair asked if the motion would allow them to continue beyond two and a half
hours, if needed; and Ms. Garson said that a friendly amendment to the motion could be
proposed, to limit the meetings to two and a half hours with the option of extending it at
the Chair's discretion. The Chair said it could be amended so that after two and a half
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hours, if they are on a hot discussion, then a poll could be taken to see if they wanted to
continue past that time.
Motion Amended: Mr. Sakaguchi stated that he would accept the friendly amendment.
Mr. Joseph said he is concerned that this is being formalized and he would rather not
formalize it and just have it as an understanding.
Vote: The Chair asked for a vote on the motion, by a raising of hands. Mr. Sakaguchi
and Ms. Nicholson raised their hands. All who opposed, by raising their hands: Mr.
Joseph, Ms. Cushnie, and the Chair. The motion to limit the meetings to two and a half
hours failed.
The Chair stated that he would try to get the meetings done in two and a half hours and
that the motion could always be revisited.
11. DISCUSSION OF ITEMS TO BE PLACED ON NEXT AGENDA
Ms. Garson stated that she had the Department of Environmental Management on the
next agenda, as well as a variation of item 7 on discussion or action about prioritizing to
accomplish the mandate of the Commission. She said she will have that as a running
agenda item.
Ms. Nicholson said to include the letter they were to send to the departments.
Ms. Cushnie reminded Ms. Garson that she needed to bring various documents to the
next meeting, and Ms. Garson said that would not be an agenda item, and she doubted
she would be able to get the book by the next meeting.
(Ms. Garson requested a short break to check on whether the Liquor Department's
conference room would be available on April 6, 2006 The meeting broke at 12:45 p.m.
and reconvened as 12:47p.m.)
Ms. Garson reported that the conference room is available for April 6 and she cancelled
their reservation for its use on April 3, 2006.
12. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC
The Chair stated that there were no statements from the public.
13. ANNOUNCEMENTS
The Chair announced that the next meeting is scheduled for April 6, 2006, at the
conference room at the Department of Liquor Control.
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14. ADJOURNMENT
Motion and Vote: Mr. Joseph moved to adjourn the meeting, Ms. Cushnie seconded the
motion, and all members voted aye to adjourn.
(The meeting adjourned at 12: 50 p.m.)
Respectfully submitted:
Mary E. Cr son, Secretary
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