HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005-05-18 Board of Ethics Minutes regular mcHAWAII COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS
MINUTES — REGULAR SESSION
May 18, 2005 — 10:00 a.m.
Liquor Department Conference Room
101 Aupum Street, Suite 230, Hilo, Hawaii 96720
Present: Reeve Williams, Chair
Karl Kawahara, Vice Chair
Kerry Inouye, Member
Wayne Joseph, Member
Amy G. Self, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Mary Crosson, Secretary
CHAIR: It's ten o'clock, or almost ten o'clock, and let the record show that the
meeting will proceed. And do we see any members of the public
walking in the door? None present. If not, we'll go right into the
minutes. So the minutes of the April 12, 2005, Regular Session are in
your possession. Have you all had a chance to review these copious
notes? Bless your heart, Mary, for wading through al l this stuff, a ton
of it.
KK: You know, I have a question, maybe from the legal standpoint. Is
verbatim notes in the minutes a requirement now of the County?
CHAIR: Or can you summarize?
AGS: No, I think some-
KK: - -I asked that before.
AGS: I think there are some boards that do summarize. I can get back to you
on that.
KK: Yeah, well.
AGS: You're wondering if you could—if they could just start summarizing so
that-
KK: Of course, it can be dangerous.
CHAIR: It could be dangerous. I mean, a little editorial discretion would be
good, perhaps.
KK: Yeah. You know, I brought this up several years ago, and I thought Pat
told us, Pat or somebody told us, that it wasI think it was optional.
But, I just wanted clarification on that, because —did I say some of these
things here?
CHAIR: You know, that always surprises us.
KK: Well, I don't know what the others feel.
AGS: I'll find out and get an answer to you on that.
CHAIR: Well, if you have reviewed these minutes, are there any additions or
corrections?
KK: And if I may ask the secretary, the blanks mean that you didn't get the
word, or whatever, it's inaudible or whatever?
CHAIR: Right.
KK: So I guess we have to speak louder into the mike, or
MC: Yeah, even moving these silly - looking microphones closer, you know.
CHAIR: They'll all think you're the American Idol contestant, with a
microphone. Are there any additions or deletions, or suggestions or
subtractions?
KK: I move for adoption.
CHAIR: Second?
KI: Second.
CHAIR: All in favor?
KK: Aye.
KI: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
CHAIR: That's the Regular Session that are adopted. The Executive Session is
next on the agenda. Have you had a chance to review that?
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KK: Yes.
CHAIR: Any additions or corrections? Comments? May I hear a vote to adopt
and file?
KI: I move that we adopt and file the minutes of the Executive Session.
WJ: I'll second.
CHAIR: All in favor?
KI: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
CHAIR: The Chair votes aye. Did you already vote? Are you voting on the
Executive Session minutes?
KK: No. I think, like Wayne last time, when he didn't vote for something, as
he wasn't present at it.
CHAIR: You were present—oh that's right, you left early, that's right. Let the
record show that Mr. Kawahara abstained and everyone else voted to
adopt and file. Moving on to number 4, item 4, Communications, we
have from Corp Counsel Lincoln Ashida, to Maui Corp Counsel Brian
Moto, thanking John Kim for serving as special counsel that day, and
we're talking about the pro Bono work of attorneys. Any motions to
adopt and file?
KI: I move that we adopt and file.
CHAIR: Any second?
WJ: Second.
CHAIR: All in favor, please, all in favor?
KI: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
KK: Aye.
CHAIR: The chair votes aye. Unfinished Business, the heart of the matter.
There are several petitions here for informal advisory opinions
regarding Barbara Lively, Ronald Thiel, and Lincoln Ashida, and then
we have a bill to talk about. So, Petition No. 2005 -01, approval of the
Informal Advisory Opinion regarding petitioner Barbara Lively. As you
recall, we've had two meetings with Barbara. She's employed as a
council aide, clerical aid for Councilman Bob Jacobson, and as a
sideline has a contracting business for under the
direction of R & D, but with some confusion as to her supervision. So
we have a fairly lengthy and complicated Informal Advisory Opinion
here, which was necessitated because of the involvement with that. Are
there any comments about that? I mean, you had some issues with some
of this —maybe with the Lincoln Ashida one, I guess, yeah.
WJ: Yes, and those were resolved.
CHAIR: Okay. So, any comments or discussion on Barbara Lively's Informal
Advisory Opinion, which was drafted I guess by Bobby Jean, yeah?
Did Bobby Jean put this together?
MC: Yes.
CHAIR: Do you have this thing, Amy, did you see this?
AGS : No, actually I didn't.
CHAIR: It's pretty involved.
AGS: I read what was in the minutes on this.
CHAIR: I guess the real deal was, is there a potential for abuse, when she is like
getting paid for two things at one time. So, I guess the legalese is such
here that —and she will get a copy of this. I presume she'll get a copy of
this. Do you know about that Mary, will she get a copy of this?
MC: Yes.
CHAIR: And we've asked her to sort of stay in touch in case things change,
because she's so fluid with her job situation here and her contract, and
her contract renewal. So I personally am satisfied with this, if you are.
So is there a move to submit this Informal Advisory Opinion for
signature, and approve and sign this?
WJ: I'll move to accept this as written.
CHAIR: Okay.
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KI: Second.
CHAIR: Second. All in favor?
WJ: Aye.
KI: Aye.
KK: Aye.
CHAIR: The Chair votes aye. So moved. So I need to sign that and give it to
Mary.
(The Chair signed the Informal Advisory Opinion.)
CHAIR: Okay, the second order of business is Petition 2005 -02, approval of
Informal Advisory Opinion regarding petitioner Ron Thiel. Another
guy is moonlighting while in the employ of County business. However,
he's doing consulting work at the moment in Alaska and in his capacity
as a supervising engineer, not in traffic engineering, although the caveat
is that he's applying for a position as a County traffic engineer, orI
think it's the County's traffic engineer, in which case, he may want to
come back and see us again, if he does get that job, because then
everything changes, right. So, has there been a chance to review this
Informal Advisory Opinion? You see in the findings of fact, that he has
an application in with the Department for a traffic engineer. On this
page 3, findings of fact, he's employed as an engineer, he has an
application in with the Department, all work done in Alaska,
intermittent. My own thought on this is that once—if he were to be
selected as the traffic engineer, we may want to hear the pros and cons
on that again, pro forma, because if he is our traffic engineer and he's a
traffic engineering consultant elsewhere, in the state or out -of- state, it
may not be a violation of the Code of Ethics, but it would certainly open
it up to scrutiny asI don't know. Any sensitivity on that from
anybody else?
KK: If that happens, it happens. We can
CHAIR: - -or imagine if Lincoln Ashida were going out and being a consultant
just on the side at the Corp Counsel's in the state of Washington.
Would that be
AGS: That's a violation of our ethics code—
CHAIR: - -as attorneys
AGS: - -yes, as attorneys.
KK: We can not take any voluntarily action, I mean, until it's brought to our
attention by someone else. If he does get that job, and there is a
complaint against it, or if he wants another advisory opinion, then we
render one.
CHAIR: Okay. The point I guess I was getting at, is that in this advisory opinion
on Ron Thiel, there's no mention made of—if he gets the job, come
back and see us, but we've told him that informally, so—is there a
motion to submit to approve, to sign?
KI: I'll make a motion that we submit for approval and signature.
CHAIR: Any seconds on that?
WJ: Second.
CHAIR: Any further discussion on that? All in favor?
KI: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
KK: Aye.
CHAIR: The Chair votes aye.
(The Chair signed the Informal Advisory Opinion.)
CHAIR: And number 3, the approval of Informal Advisory Opinion regarding
petitioner Lincoln Ashida, which went on and on. Mr. Kawahara and
Mr. Ashida, having a little dueling match there.
KK: It's like you're on Candid Camera.
AGS: You're the teacher?
KK: Yes.
CHAIR: Taught him well.
KK: Half of Hilo were my students.
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CHAIR: This one looks like a monograph. It looks like an academic piece.
Footnotes, wow. He even addressed the de minimis requirement for
you, Karl.
KK: He did?
CHAIR: He did, there it is. See the footnote on page 3.
KK: I thought he said he didn't know.
CHAIR: Well, he found out, or someone found out. Bobby Jean found out.
Barron's Law Dictionary, there it is. Third Edition. So that's as far as
the turning point, de minimis. So are you amply satisfied with that,
Wayne, or is that okay for you? All right, do we have a motion to
accept and sign this Informal Advisory Opinion?
KI: I make a motion that we submit and send forth for approval and
signatures.
KK: Second.
CHAIR: Further discussion? None? All in favor?
KI: Aye.
KK: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
CHAIR: The Chair votes aye. Approved.
(The Chair signed the Informal Advisory Opinion.)
KK: If I may just make an editorial comment here. These were all voluntary
submissions, so they're relatively uncontroversial. So, it's kind of just
pro forma. Am I using the right term, pro forma?
CHAIR: Go look in the Barron's Law Dictionary and check that out.
KK: I never went to law school, so I don't know. So it's relatively easy.
CHAIR: All right, and we also have the status of Bill 37, amending Chapter 2,
Article 15, Subsection 2- 91.1(d) of the Hawaii County Code relating to
financial disclosure forms. There the issue was —get us all on one long
form, and counsel said that is still floating in the County Council.
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AGS: It was passed by the Council on April 6, and the effective date is today,
April 18.
CHAIR: That was a month ago.
AGS: Pardon me?
CHAIR: Or is that May 18?
AGS: I'm sorry —April 18. It was effective April 18.
CHAIR: A month ago today.
AGS: Right.
CHAIR: Okay, so no more short forms, henceforth. So our procedure will be,
send them back, send the long form and do the whole drill. Very good.
We don't need to take any action on that. It's duly notedI guess it's
duly noted by all. Okay, moving on to Item 6, New Business, to review
the financial interest statements of Joel, Wayne, Paul Mann, and Melvin
Morimoto. Only Wayne is in attendance. Do you want it in Executive
Session, private session?
WJ: No.
CHAIR: Moving forward. All right, so we'll conduct business in the private
section, in the private session, I'm sorry. Here's two for you guys, and
one for you, and I'll do the middle one.
AGS: I'm sorry, are you doing the one that's not
CHAIR: We're doing Joel Gimpel, Wayne Joseph, Paul Mann, and Melvin
Morimoto. We're doing all this in Regular Session. Boy, these real
estate evaluations continuously amaze me.
KK: Why didn't I get one of these forms to fill out?
CHAIR: Yourself? You need one.
KK: Yeah, why didn't I get one?
CHAIR: Mary, would you please send Karl a long form.
KK: Am I exempt from it?
CHAIR: No, you're not.
KK: I don't have anything to disclose.
(Financial interest statements being reviewed.)
CHAIR: Our Board is five, so a quorum is three. Yeah, one, two, three. I'm
looking ahead to the June meeting. Unless you're open to maybe
meeting earlier. Of course, if we have a new member, it'll be academic,
if we get a new member. I'd really be grateful if you would follow
up
AGS: Yeah, I will
CHAIR: - -and get back to me on that.
AGS : Okay, I sure will.
CHAIR: I know that there are plenty of urgent fills required in boards and
commissions across the front, but the issue here is that this lady's been
on the train for five months. That's —you know, I just don't want to see
her walk away from us and be no longer interested.
KK: May I ask, I think I asked before, what is our interest in this, basically?
What are we looking for?
CHAIR: Conflicts of interest. If you're in the Water Commission, and maybe
you're a developer, or water hauler, in another subdivision, you know,
somewhere, so forth.
KK: I think I asked that question before—
CHAIR: Pretty obvious, though, eh?
KK: Yeah. So what do we do about it if
CHAIR: Flag it.
KK: Pardon?
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CHAIR: I think we would flag it. I would flag it.
KK: I pointed it out once, that it seemed like some conflict, but they didn't
do anything about it. That's okay, all right.
CHAIR: Was I on the Board?
KK: No, no, it was way, way back. That's okay.
CHAIR: Let the record show that on New Business, Item 6, we have reviewed
the financial disclosures on Joel Gimpel, Wayne Joseph, Paul Mann,
and Melvin Morimoto, and in one moment we'll vote to accept and file,
as having no conflicts of interest. Okay, do I have a motion to accept
and file?
KI: So moved.
CHAIR: Second?
KK: Second.
CHAIR: All in favor?
KI: Aye.
KK: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
CHAIR: Okay, now we need to move into Executive Session to review the
financial disclosure statements of the following four individuals
MC: Let me stop the tape, I've got to change it.
CHAIR: She's got to deal with her technology.
AGS: Someone needs to move- -
KI: I move that we move into
CHAIR: Okay, the tape's still running, right?
MC: Right.
CHAIR: So a motion was made to move to Executive Session, the motion was
made, is there a second?
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WJ: Second.
CHAIR: Mr. Joseph. All in favor, aye?
KI: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
KK: Aye.
CHAIR: We'll move into Executive Session. I'm sorry.
(Moved into Executive Session at 10:22 a. m.)
(Returned to Regular Session at 10: 31 a. m.)
CHAIR: So, let the record show that we have filed, in Executive Session, and
have returned to open session, where we are now, and we are on Item 8,
an announcement, namely next months' meeting, regularly scheduled
for Wednesday, June 8, at 10:00 a.m. However, Wayne has notified us
that he will be leaving on June 8, that day, until July 11. Would you
look at the calendar and see what July looks like? We'll have two,
possibly two conflicts there.
WJ: July 11 is a Monday.
CHAIR: It's a Monday, okay.
KK: So you're leaving?
WJ: Yes.
CHAIR: And will you actually be able to make the July meeting on Wednesday,
the 13th?
WJ: July 13?
MC: And we have no new petitions that have come in, so I don't know if
there's going to be much to discuss—
CHAIR: - -We'll just schedule for June 8, and we'll see what's happening.
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MC: Okay.
CHAIR: Okay? Maybe Amy can fire up the Corp Counsel to get us a new
member, and we'll have a little assurance.
KK: I'll be gone on July 13, also.
CHAIR: Oh, you won't be here.
KK: I'll be in Mount Rushmore.
CHAIR: Getting your face carved in stone?
KK: Chief Crazy Horse, we'll see all those things. Yeah, that's July 13,1
won't be here.
CHAIR: Okay. So let's schedule June 8, regular meeting as scheduled, and we'll
adjust as needed, and depending upon where we're at on June 8. And
we'll deal with the July meeting when the time comes.
KK: Just for the record, I'd like to thank the Chair and whoever else is
responsible for accommodating me for this meeting today.
CHAIR: You're welcome.
KK: I feel so important and grateful.
CHAIR: You are. We wouldn't proceed without you. We're going to have to
address the July meeting separately, later. All right, do we have a
motion to adjourn? Or is there any further discussion?
AGS: I have an answer to your question. Under the Code of Ethics, Section 2-
91.1, financial disclosures and disclosures of interest. The only
financial disclosures that are open to the public are for all candidates for
elective office, all elected officers, administrative heads of the County
agencies and their first deputies, and the managing director and deputy
managing director.
CHAIR: That explains that.
AGS: So all other financial disclosure statements are required to be filed —all
other ones filed under this section shall be confidential and accessible
only by action of the Board of Ethics. So the ones that did not —they
can choose to have it discussed publicly or in Executive Session. So the
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ones who are in Executive Session are confidential because they are not
officers or they are not elected officials or managing director
employees.
CHAIR: So now if someone in that capacity chose to have his held in Executive
Session, would we just deny the request? If the managing director
says
AGS: - -yeah, it has to be made available to the public.
CHAIR: So we just say sorry, you have to be held in the open session?
AGS: Right.
KK: So those that are looked over in Regular Session, they're still
confidential?
AGS: No, they're not confidential because it's in open session.
KK: I see.
AGS: They haven't chosen to keep it confidential.
KK: If someone from the audience says they want to see Mr. Brown's thing,
that—
CHAIR: Browne was in the Executive Session, so
KK: - -not Browne, not Browne, I'm talking about Mr. X, anybody who's in
Regular Session.
CHAIR: And he's an officer of the government
KK: - -No, he's just a regular person, like yourself. Then that person has the
right to see that? If they chose to go the regular route, it's still
confidential, according to what she read.
AGS: Well, all the financial disclosure statements shall be accessible only by
the Board of Ethics.
KK: The question is, why do they select Executive Session or Regular
Session? Why do they have that option?
CHAIR: I thought she just answered that question.
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KK: No.
WJ: I agree with him. It's still a gray area, because what he's saying—is it
still confidential in open session? Because the way that's worded is, if
you're not elected, then it's all closed, right, regardless of if it's in Open
Session or Executive Session. At least that's the way I interpret it by
the way you read it.
CHAIR: Could you read that section again, please?
AGS: It lists all the financial disclosure statements of the following persons
shall be public record and may be reviewed for inspection by the public
during office hours of the county clerk, so it wouldn't be like they could
just do it here, butI think if someone —it's their privilege to have it
public or not public. If they choose to have their financial disclosure
public
CHAIR: - -as you did
AGS: - -then it can be done in Open Session. But if they choose not to, then it
has to be in the Executive Session. I believe it would be confidential
unless they waived that. But I'm going to check on that. I agree it's not
completely clear here.
KK: You might have somebody say, "I'd like to see Mr. X's," can we do it?
CHAIR: You refer it to the county clerk.
AGS: No.
CHAIR: No, the county clerk. You petition the county clerk.
KK: Oh, okay, well.
AGS: It could only be public if it's you'd have to go there and request from
the clerk the information. And I don't know if they could do that
anyway.
CHAIR:
KK: They should make it real clear, so that if someone from the public asks
us, then we can have an answer. I just wondered why —why we have
these two categories here. Those are confidential
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CHAIR: Moo la mi, which is Korean for "I don't know."
KK: Sometimes you wonder if it's —those that have asked for Executive
Session, do they have something to --
CHAIR: - -hide.
KK: I didn't want to use that word, you used it.
CHAIR: Let the record show I used the word. All right. Well, without any
further discussion, is there a move to adjourn?
KI: I move to adjourn.
CHAIR: Any second on that?
WJ: Second.
CHAIR: And all in favor?
KI: Aye.
WJ: Aye.
KK: Aye.
CHAIR: So adjourned.
(Meeting adjourned at 10: 40 a. m.)
Respectfully submitted,
Mary E. Crosson, Secretary
NOTE: Blank lines indicate inaudible words or voices on audio tape recording.
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