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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-06-25 Board of Ethics Minutes Regular SessionHAWAII COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS MINUTES — REGULAR SESSION Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 10:30 a.m. 333 Kilauea Avenue, 2nd Floor (County Council Chambers) Hilo, Hawaii 96720 Present: John Dill, Chair Ann Lum, Vice Chair Marilyn Nicholson, Member Renee N. C. Schoen, Deputy Corporation Counsel Cathy Hall, Clerical Supervisor, Corporation Counsel Emarie Kawaauhau, Secretary for the Board All present at various times: Lincoln Ashida, Corporation Counsel Brandon Gonzalez, Deputy Corporation Counsel Councilmember Bob Jacobson, Petitioner Kelci Paiva, Law Clerk, Corporation Counsel Madeline Reed, Law Clerk, Corporation Counsel Cheryl Shitabata, Law Clerk, Corporation Counsel Wesley Takai, Respondent 1. CALL TO ORDER Ms. Lum called the meeting to order at 10:32 a.m. 2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS No one from the public was present. 3. ELECTION OF OFFICER (CHAIR) LUM: I would like to open that discussion with the nomination of John Dill to serve as chair. Are there any further nominations from the public, from anybody here or from the Board? NICHOLSON: I'll second that nomination. LUM: Any discussion? John, would you accept the nomination? DILL: Yes, humbly. Thank you. LUM: We have no further nominations. All in favor of John serving as chairman of the Board of Ethics, signify by saying aye. you— NICHOLSON: Aye. LUM: And the chair votes aye. John, I think we have to have all three. I would ask that DILL: - -Aye. LUM: Thank you. So we have John as the new chairman for the Board of Ethics. Thank you very much and you may have this chair. Do I retain the vice chair then? NICHOLSON: Yes, of course. LUM: That was the answer to a plea. CHAIR: Thank you very much and we will all need to work together obviously like before. I'm not that smart of a guy, so I will depend on you guys. The first item of business is to review the minutes from the regular session on April ninth. 4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Minutes of the April 9, 2008, Regular Session. LUM: I move that we accept and file the minutes for April ninth. NICHOLSON: I second. CHAIR: All in favor signify by saying aye. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. CHAIR: Aye. Okay. We will move on to passing the minutes of the executive session dated April 9, 2008. Minutes of the April 9, 2008, Executive Session. NICHOLSON: I move we accept and file the minutes from the executive session from April ninth. LUM: I second CHAIR: All in favor signify by saying aye. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. CHAIR: Okay and go onto number five, Communication No. 2008 -43: Anonymous letter to the Board dated 3128108 regarding false claiming of mileage reimbursement. 2 5. COMMUNICATIONS a. Communication No. 2008 -43: Anonymous letter to the Board dated 3128108 regarding false claiming of mileage reimbursement. CHAIR: Have you guys all had the opportunity to take a look at that? LUM: Yes, and since it's an anonymous letter, I don't think that we can do very much with that. For the members of the public, it involved somebody questioning free meal or hotel accommodations, or our mileage for people serving on boards and commissions. My feeling is that the person really didn't receive correct information and that our —we do receive mileage for our car, I mean it's nor for our body it's for our car, and on the mileage statement it says I certify that I use my car on County business so I think that that's very clear and I know on this board when we do run over and we do have lunch its very definitely a part of the situation. So I think that the person who didn't want to sign their name still had incorrect information and that we're all —it really is handled and I don't think we need to do anything further. So I move that we accept and file. NICHOLSON: I'll second. LUM: Or did we already do that? CHAIR and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): No, we didn't. CHAIR: Any other comments? Renee, do you have anything? SCHOEN: No. CHAIR: One thing that concerns me is the impression of mileage that they refer to— reimbursable to compensate claimant for use of personal vehicle. What worries me is why they are confused in the first place. But 1 guess it's just based on speculation like you were saying, Ann. LUM: When they said they believed that you could carpool and claim reimbursement CHAIR: --yeah obviously somebody is telling- NICHOLSON: That's incorrect, you can't. CHAIR: But my concern is why wasn't it made clear in the beginning to that person. LUM: My feeling is that somebody said oh wow, you should join this board because hey, you get your mileage paid. Somebody from an official point of view or the —Corp, it's the counsel office right that handles these applications? Obviously, if it had been an official knowledgeable person they would have said no, no, no, only the car driven over gets the thing. I looked on —do you have a mileage statement? Department names, so on and so forth, County of Hawai `i Claim for Mileage: 1 certify that I used a private automobile on County business during the month of and it has the date as detailed below and claim mileage for —mine says June 25, Kamuela to Hilo roundtrip 107 miles and then you sign it, you certify it so— its fraudulent or something if you're not doing it. Thank you. CHAIR: Any other comments before we vote on accepting and filing Communication No. 2008 -43? NICHOLSON: No. CHAIR: All in favor signify by saying aye. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. CHAIR: Moving on. b. Communication Nos. 2008 -46: Lincoln Ashida memo dated 413108 re updated checklist for Board and Commission Application and Nomination Process. LUM: I think that's just a- NICHOLSON: -- information only. LUM: Information huh. Information only, so I move we accept and file. NICHOLSON: I second. CHAIR: Okay, any comments? All in favor signify by saying aye. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. c. Communication No. 2008 -50: Tricia Malanka letter dated 516108, resigning from the Board for personal reasons. CHAIR: If we haven't already, is there a way to draft her a letter and thank her? SCHOEN: Mr. Chair, I believe the Mayor has already sent a letter to Ms. Malanka thanking her for her service on the Board of Ethics. If the chair would like, our office can prepare a letter as well. I would be more than happy to do that. LUM: From the— CHAIR: -- board- LUM: -- members of the board. That would be good to thank her for her you know —we regret that she's resigning and thank her for her community service. 0 that. SCHOEN: Okay, I'll draft a letter and have it ready for the next meeting. CHAIR: Okay, great. LUM: Thank you. CHAIR: Do you guys have anything else on this? NICHOLSON: No. LUM: I move that we accept and file Tricia's letter with regret. NICHOLSON: Yes, with regret. CHAIR: Okay, so we got a second. All in favor signify by saying aye. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. LUM: Did you second it? NICHOLSON: Mm hmm. LUM: Oh, okay. CHAIR: Moving onto Sd. d. Communication No. 2008 -53: Lincoln Ashida letter dated 5127108 to Stanley Roehrig responding to Mr. Roehrig's 5123108 letter re Councilwoman Emily Nae`ole, in which he requests discoverable materials relating to the Board's inquiry regarding public officials using their photographs in newspaper ads. (Note: this Communication requires a response by the Board.) LUM: Now this we will be discussing in executive session, so that letter I think goes with SCHOEN: That's correct, we will be discussing this matter in executive session. LUM: So we won't be filing it— CHAIR: - -No we do it- LUM: --just accept this to be discussed. SCHOEN: Well the communication itself maybe filed if the Board wishes. The discussion regarding the communication, however, will occur in executive session. LUM: So I guess the move is to accept and – 5 CHAIR: - -file- LUM: - -okay, I move that we accept and file Communication 2008 -53. NICHOLSON: I'll second. CHAIR: Okay, any further discussion? All in favor signify with saying aye. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. CHAIR: Okay, moving to new business. 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Petition No. 2008 -5: From Councilmember Bob Jacobson, requesting an opinion on the use of his photograph on his Council stationery letterhead. JACOBSON: First off, I'm Bob Jacobson, councilmember for district six. Thanks so much for considering this request. I think that my letter is sort of clear, but I did want to just go into some of my reasoning or else if you had questions —how would you like to proceed? CHAIR: I guess you can start by giving us you know, your version and what is behind all this. JACOBSON: Okay great. Because I actually travel and look at a lot of things -1'm in the National Association of Counties and I have contact with about eighty percent of the counties across the United States, I see all kinds of different written materials and different approaches to trying to be accessible in government. So what I look at was actually —I saw some really nice stuff from California on a councilmember, I forget the city, but he had his photograph just as —I think you've got an exemplar. I have my own color printer that I paid for. But in general it's the idea of whether it is right or wrong, and I did review your opinion regarding the ads and the names and faces, and being in the ads so I'm acquainted with some of your reasoning there. In part, I see that there's a number of other items that come out regularly from the County. This is the latest one 1 saw (hands the Board a pamphlet with the Mayor's picture on it). It's not entirely unusual to have faces of elected officials, including this one is the Mayor on a pro- incineration piece that was passed out for the better part of the year or year and a half. But I'm not going to say that because the Mayor did it its okay. That's why I thought I'd come talk to you guys beforehand. I like the idea of when I'm giving testimony at the legislature— that's where I thought it was most important is that quite frequently during the legislative session 1 submit quite a bit of written testimony, and when somebody sees my face on the letter they are going to more likely associate it with me rather than just apiece of paper. I mean I sit in your desk there and see hundreds and hundreds of pieces of paper during any given meeting, but if I see a face I kind of go, oh maybe I can relate to this a little bit better. So that's in part of it. Also, its more modern standards —I should also bring business cards into this because if you go around and you get business cards from people, I'm sure you will see that many people have their face on a business card and I would like you to consider that aspect of part of this request. Not that I'm in a hurry to do it, but it would be nice to settle it so that if other people want to put their names on 6 it or if I change my mind and want to put my face on my business card I'd like to see if that's acceptable too —my County card. LUM: Mr. Jacobson. JACOBSON: Yes, go ahead. LUM: Would you use it on all your correspondence or choose whether it was something that you would be doing then or something was more formal or- JACOBSON: -- I'd probably like to put it on all my correspondence because I would like to have a consistent letterhead. At first I thought and I have to admit that I had put a couple out on certificates to the elderly during RSVP —I moved ahead and I put my face on about fifteen of these things before I thought to ask an opinion from you guys so I may be in some violation. 1 hope not, but once I started doing that I realized it's probably a better idea to get an opinion before I proceed along that line. But in general I'd like to have it on all my stuff or at least be able to. I may not always put it on there but I think that generally I'd just like to have one letterhead that's consistent throughout the whole period of time. Things have changed in talking with others. If this was 1960 and I was trying to put my picture on things, that would be more of a big deal. The costs would be a lot more onerous I thinkfor the taxpayers. Right now with our digital technology it's just about as easy to print up a letterhead with a picture of me as not. So it doesn't seem to be a striking amount of business and frankly I agree to the ideas, I don't want to have to put my name, face in an ad. If I'm going to have my face in an advertisement, that's a clear boundary. I mean there's a line there to cross and if I'm going to put my face in an advertisement then I'd pay for it myself. I'm not interested in —no matter what your rulings are it looks bad, it has an appearance of- LUM: --pictures appear political. JACOBSON: Yeah, just irritates. Like I'm campaigning for something, so that aspect I would not —I completely agree with your opinion on this. For this I think it has more of the impact of here is my face if you feel like meeting with me, you're going to see Jacobson at your office. Otherwise, if you want to follow my advice maybe you don't have to see me. But also for people just to be able to identify with who I am. So that's my general idea. I don't want to use this as my campaign vehicle- LUM: -- better not. JACOBSON: I have my own campaign stuff and that's outside my office here for sure. NICHOLSON: I have a question, your regular office stationery that's paid for through your office expenses and there's no standard format for business cards or for campaign stationery? LUM: What campaign? JACOBSON: Let me hand you one of my business cards. 7 NICHOLSON: Everyone can do their own thing? JACOBSON: We are able to establish our own. For instance, mine has my name in Chinese on the back —the one side with the gold seal. Actually, having that seal next to my name is probably the most important promotional item that I have. Of course I am an elected councilmember, so I think it is appropriate having it addressed like that but that's more or less the form that when I went into office people have been using for many years. They don't have the back side of it but —I actually travel a bit and I have to say I'm very happy that it looks like we're going to get direct flights from Mainland China into Hawai `i starting I think today, and I have been promoting that. So that's in part why I have Chinese, my name there. So that people can know who I am and that's a variation which I don't think —I didn't think that that was unethical, so I didn't bring that into —many of the other councilmembers have them in different languages over the years. It's just a photograph, if in the future I wanted to include a photograph on this or on my other stationery. Did I answer your question? NICHOLSON: Yeah, you did. So it just comes out of your regular operating expenses for your own office. JACOBSON: Right, and actually right now I have my own color printer because I always like to have my letterhead in color. The County pays for the ink but I bought the printer itself. I think other councilmen have color printers that are paid for by the County but mine is faster and nicer and I thought I should pay for it. NICHOLSON: I would think that once you do this people —if in fact you do it, that other people would follow suit. JACOBSON: I'm convinced that they probably would. CHAIR: That's one thing that really concerns me is what level and maybe it's our own fault here for past decisions we have made, but where do you draw the line in terms of what level you stop putting your name on it- LUM: --picture. CHAIR: We've got people that workfor the County that obviously have higher aspirations than just working for the County and might see it as an avenue or a tool to market themselves for future positions. Another thing that kind of just off the top, is if I get a letter in the mail from the County the thing that grabs my attention is number one the seal like on your card and the fact that it says in big letters right at the top that this is from the Council and this is from the County and I guess what I'm trying to argue is that I think that might be enough of an attention grabber for personal correspondence and for a business card in that sense. Do you guys have any? LUM: Yeah, the other side of that is the kind of looking you know at our code of ethics too but the —this is it's Hawai `i County Council and he is council, his name is in 48 point type- JACOBSON: - -I'm a councilmember- 8 LUM: - -right here or whatever that is 64 point type right here. He's not asking us whether we like it or not or whether we think its great graphics or you know those —he's not asking those type of questions. He's asking if it violates the code of ethics. I think some people will look at a picture and think campaigning right here or else that he's selling real estate. Other people will think oh is that who he is, oh I see him down at the market. So there's- JACOBSON: - -I'll say in part that mostly this is —I don't send very many letters to constituents this is not a —I mean I- LUM: - -It's mostly- JACOBSON: - -I never mass mail to constituents. Well I did when I did a survey of Punalu'u. That was the last time I did a mass mailer. Generally, If I do mass mailers that's on my own dime. But this would be —most of my correspondence and there's quite a bit, goes to senators, representatives, the Governor, our federal senators and representatives and their staff, interdepartmental, another councilmember, to the mayor, to public works, most of my correspondence goes that way, to National Association of Counties. In part it's so people can kind of remember who I am because I have a lot of contacts with a lot of people and my own memory with names is very poor, especially for a politician and it's the —I guess in part because my own memory is —I have to have these clues and if I can get a picture in front of me with somebody, but I don't think this is much for campaigning and as far as that letterhead except for the photograph is pretty much what everybody has used Like at the bottom of mine it's a little bit different. I think it says I have the- LUM: -- district six, upper Puna- JACOBSON: - -and it also says something to the fact that this is a nondiscriminatory County. LUM: Equal opportunity provider and employer. Hawai `i County is an equal opportunity provider and employer. JACOBSON: The Mayor has asked us to put that on all the bottom of the things. Now where I put Ka'u- LUM: - -Ka'u and South Kona and Upper Puna- JACOBSON: - -Kona coast and all that. So other people have something else, but it basically goes through the Clerk to see if she has any problems with it and mostly we have our own —it's more or less the same format. LUM: I did ask to check the Clerk if they had any problem with it. SCHOEN: I did speak with Casey Jarman, our County Clerk. She basically said what Councilmember Jacobson has represented, that the clerk's office provides the ink and the paper and each councilmember is responsible for printing out their own letterhead. LUM: And designing and— Z CHAIR: - -Not necessarily the designing right- SCHOEN: - -Not designing. Responsible for just printing it out. So she believes that her responsibility with respect to issuing a letterhead is purely ministerial and not discretionary. LUM: With regard to what you were just saying, Mr. Jacobson, about how you use this but also it came up that once one person puts on- NICHOLSON: -- others are going to, too- JACOBSON: - -I have a hunch that that's what would happen- LUM: - -they may not use it the same way you do. So our decision —but again we are only looking at how it fits into the code of ethics. JACOBSON: And the difference that I see between the advertising, the advertising goes out to everybody who picks up a newspaper. This just goes to people I'm having business with. This is specific, I mean 1 don't —this is not to the mass public. CHAIR: So if you were to send out your survey of Punalu'u again, you're telling us you wouldn't use that- JACOBSON: - -I probably would do this just so that they knew who they are. But that would only be those people who are filling out the survey, those people who are registered voters who have a mailbox in that area. NICHOLSON: Do you have separate stationery that you use when you are campaigning? JACOBSON: Yeah, it doesn't look anything like this. I don't have any examples. NICHOLSON: That would be a concern of ours. JACOBSON: For instance, I never use the seal on anything to do with campaign stuff. I avoid all use of that. I'm quite aware how odious that is. I would not consider doing it. I would use my title but I don't use the seal. I've earned my title but the seal itself I don't have the right to use that in any campaign stuff at all. I only use —I keep my numbers separate. My campaign gear has my home phone on it and my business stuff has my— although my card does have my home phone on it too but that's just a perk that the people get because I'm foolish enough to put it on there. NICHOLSON: So it seems to me if we are going to make a motion to approve this and I don't have an issue- LUM: - -No it would be to —not to approve it, to find it not in violation— CHAIR: - -Offer an opinion- 10 NICHOLSON: - -to find it not in violation. JACOBSON: And if I may make a suggestion, because you are expressing some rational concerns. Along the lines of in your ruling you might want to say what it can or can't be used for, to clarify. NICHOLSON: That's exactly what I was about to say, that we make it very clear that it not be used for any campaign purposes. JACOBSON: Or if you choose to approve this, whatever else restrictions you feel are important so that it would not be abused. LUM: This County letterhead would not be used in campaign anyway, right? JACOBSON and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): It's not supposed to be. CHAIR: Well I just personally, I have problems going down this road, because I'm worried about where it's going to end up and how do we stop it. Next thing you know we will have regular employees sending out their picture on letterhead for regular business. LUM: 1 wonder if the picture were in some other place on the stationery, if that would- NICHOLSON: - -But then you're talking about design, though- LUM: 1 am talking about design, yes. Like down by his signature. I have thought about it a lot and in —we're looking at all persons shall be treated in a courteous, fair and impartial manner —using County property or personnel for other than public activity or purpose. I also looked at number 2 -83(1) which talks about all public property and equipment are to be treated as a public trust and are not to be used in a proprietary manner or for personal purposes. But I couldn't even squeeze it into that. JACOBSON: If I may interrupt, I feel that the main thing for this is basically to enhance my effectiveness, not to run for office, but if people know who I am then hopefully I can provide better representation to the people who pay my salary. That's one of the biggest thing because then people can continue to harass me out in public and when I go to Safeway, thirty people will stop me and maybe now it will be sixty. LUM: I think that you are demonstrating a public purpose for choosing to do this to my satisfaction, so that you are using this property for a public activity or purpose. So I don't see it violating the ethics code. NICHOLSON: I don't see any violation of the ethics code but I would like to hear more from John on- LUM: - -on how to use it responsibly- NICHOLSON: - -What you think the sticking point might be, or points. CHAIR: I think the sticking point is that we're kind of opening up —even if we attach some specifics to our opinion, there will be ways around it and 1 foresee us looking at cases with all types of County employees. For example, if I sent you a letter and you elected me chair today and granted its business pertaining to the board —my mug on there, my face, no offense, my face on that letter, I mean if I got that letter I would think- LUM: -- what's he running for— CHAIR: - -Yeah, exactly. What is he trying to do by making me recognize him more? These two ladies already know who I am as their board member, and granted some of your constituents might not know who you are even though you've held that office for quite some time. I'm just worried about it being read the wrong way and then for us- LUM: But yet when he talks about submitting testimony to the State legislature— CHAIR: - -he's got great points- LUM: - -and there's three hundred people out there, and they say oh it's that guy out there. 1 can see that that would be an effective use, perhaps an effective use, and then they could catch you at lunch time. CHAIR: I think on the State level they actually approve, some legislatures approve their photos on their - SCHOEN: - -You know, Mr. Chair, actually this past legislative session the legislature passed a prohibition on legislators using — appearing nationally in public service announcements six months prior to an election. LUM: That was that same public service announcement right, six months prior to the election. We did that one already. CHAIR: Yeah, but Mr. Jacobson is not including his stuff in his campaign literature. With that being said, I'm just worried about constituents not caring whether it's campaign literature or not, if they see something from a politician or an elected official. LUM: But what would you pull it under? CHAIR: I don't know. Using County resources but- NICHOLSON: If it's done during the regular course of business throughout the year and not attached to a campaign, I don't know what rationale we could use to say that it in any way would violate the code of ethics. CHAIR: Well, could we uh I don't know how we would attach any kind of limitations. If you both don't foresee this being a violation- -but what kind of limitations or attachments would you stick with this? 12 NICHOLSON: My concern would be if a council person who had their photo on their stationery was going to send a letter to all their constituents and they're running for office. Then it would be very questionable. LUM: The councilmembers have to run every five minutes or so. JACOBSON: You might want to, if I can hint, maybe you won't want to have a general letter to constituents six months before an election period or that this —I've tried to think about this too, because 1 don't like to abuse the system. So in keeping maybe with the public service ad time schedule that this legislature has set up, that would make some sense. Also, one more limitation that I think might be important is that such a letter couldn't be used in a print ad. I mean, like I send a letter to somebody, I wouldn't want to have that letter used in a print ad saying here's a letter from Bob because that would tend to subvert it, I think. Let's say I wanted to put an ad out where I wrote a letter to Dan Inouye saying thank you for the six million dollars you threw my way, and then I ran that in an ad regarding what I'm doing for Council and why you should re -elect me because I'm so effective at prying money out of Dan Inouye. That would be a real problem and that sort of limitation, but 1 just respect your guys' judgment on this and that's why I'm here today. LUM: So, we could do something like not find it in violation with a caution to not— CHAIR: - -What about just not using it with constituents or- LUM:. - -with general mailings and print ads— CHAIR: - -I can understand the purpose between your different governmental functions, especially with your different governmental communications and what not- NICHOLSON: -- routine office communications. Routine communications from your office that are not sent to— CHAIR: - -but a smart lawyer will pick that apart, though. LUM: There also is a thing that if his constituents think it's a bad idea, they will vote him out so. JACOBSON: One more aspect, I think that if I start doing it and others would follow, which I wouldn't be surprised, it would tend to get sort of diluted. I mean if I get a picture, I mean if Bruce McClure decides to start putting his face on letterhead, which it's not too likely, he's a very humble man, but I think it starts to become more and more diluted as more people do it. It would lose its effectiveness as a campaign. That fear of mine 1 think would tend to fall a little bit. Maybe I'm wrong. NICHOLSON: But it seems to me it's appropriate for an elected official to do this, it would not be appropriate, I would think for regular— CHAIR: - -Well that's the thing, maybe we can limit it to elected officials- 13 NICHOLSON: -- because they do represent us. CHAIR: Okay, I think I can go along with that. LUM: So what have we got here? NICHOLSON: That we find that using a photograph on letterhead or business cards — are we going to include the business cards in this one? LUM: Yeah, let's get that out of the way. CHAIR: I'd rather not. LUM: Oh okay, strike that. CHAIR: One quick question again, you said that with this day and age there's minimal additional costs, are there any recognizable additional costs that you found other than ink? JACOBSON: I haven't been able to —I mean, the price of ink when you're printing letters with a laser printer - -it becomes inconsequential because I'm already printing, the letterhead is in blue usually. I use blue just to differentiate, just so you can see that it is an original. LUM: Using his photo on letterhead, for what did we say? NICHOLSON: Correspondence relating to council business. LUM: We find no violation to the code of ethics in Mr. Jacobson using his photo on his letterhead, his County letterhead. SCHOEN: Mr. Chair, if I may, I think the balance that the Board is looking for is really between the informal advisory opinion that this board issued a few months ago regarding use of photographs and the prohibition of mail -outs within six months of election, which the County just passed an Ordinance on. I think that your motion might be tailored recognizing both the ordinance and the decision. So you may want to say that use of a photograph on County letterhead is not a violation of the Hawai `i County code of ethics as long as the letter is not used as a mail -out as prohibited in the ordinance itself, or as an advertisement as recognized in the informal advisory opinion. I think that's what you folks are looking for in trying to balance. CHAIR: Yes, absolutely. You got all that? LUM: Yes, we are. No 1 didn't get all that. 1 move that we find- NICHOLSON: - -We also, though, want to address the issue of whether it's just letterhead or whether it also is business cards. If we want to include that in this issue, or because the petition was just for the letterhead, we stick with the letterhead. LUM: Stick with the letterhead. 14 CHAIR: I suggest that, and I think I would feel better. Obviously what Renee said in terms of responding to the ordinance and the mail -outs- LUM: - -Okay so the motion could read that I move that we find that there's no violation to the Hawai `i County code of ethics in Mr. Jacobson using his photograph on his County letterhead, as long as it is not used as a mail -out as prohibited by the ordinance number whatever that is- SCHOEN: - -this is Ordinance 08 -49. LUM: 08, what was it? SCHOEN: 49. LUM: 08 -49 or used- NICHOLSON: - -in a campaign- LUM: - -No those were, what did we call those? Used as a? Who got that? NICHOLSON: You're right. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): What was the other one you referenced? SCHOEN: The other thing was the informal advisory opinion issued by this board regarding use of a photograph in advertisements paid for with County funds. LUM: Or used as a —oh, come on, why can't I get it. Did you get that, what Renee just said? That last part? NICHOLSON: Could you read it back to us? KAWAAUHAU: Not the whole thing. No. LUM: No, just the part about the —the last part regarding the informal advisory committee I don't know how to get that into the motion— CHAIR: -- opinion. LUM: I have as prohibited by County Ordinance 08 -49 or like regarding— CHAIR: - -or found to be in violation of the informal advisory opinion. SCHOEN: Lincoln, do you have any suggestions on how the Board can- LUM: - -No. 15 ASHIDA: That's what they pay you for, Renee. LUM: You said it, the sentence, I just can't get it into here. JACOBSON: Informal advisory opinion I think you didn't say. LUM: Informal advisory or in violation, no you don't violate an informal advisory opinion. NICHOLSON: In conflict with. CHAIR: That will work. LUM: Or in conflict with informal advisory opinion- NICHOLSON: -- issued by- LUM: -- issued whenever that was- NICHOLSON: -- regarding the use- SCHOEN: - -we can get the date- LUM: - -okay- SCHOEN: -- regarding the use of- LUM: - -the use of photographs- SCHOEN: --photographs- LUM: - -in announcements- SCHOEN: - -in advertisements- NICHOLSON: - -in campaign advertisements- LUM: - -I think it was just in advertisements. Okay we will have to clean this up. Don't ask me to repeat it. NICHOLSON: I think you need to repeat it. We need to have it as a motion. LUM: Okay, we find that there's no violation to the Hawai `i County code of ethics in Mr. Jacobson using his photograph in County letterhead- NICHOLSON: - -on County letterhead- LUM: - -on County letterhead- 16 NICHOLSON: - -as long as- LUM: - -as long as it is not used in mail -outs as prohibited by County Ordinance 08 -49 or in conflict with the Board of Ethics' informal advisory opinion issued regarding the use of photographs in advertisements, and the date will be supplied on that. CHAIR: Okay, so we will make a motion then. LUM: That's the motion. That's it. NICHOLSON: 1 will second the motion. CHAIR: Okay, further discussion? LUM: Anymore discussion? CHAIR: Mr. Jacobson? JACOBSON: The other thing is if you wanted to make this most specific and you wanted to approve each letterhead as it comes by, if that's one of your big concerns, you might want to limit to just me. LUM: I did say. Ethics —in Mr. Jacobson using his photo. JACOBSON: Okay. LUM: It's in the motion- NICHOLSON: - -It's in response to your specific petition. JACOBSON: Because I'm not going to make the photo to fill the whole page. LUM: No, I mean its —this is very specific to you, they will cite it, they will say whatever. CHAIR: Okay, so we have a motion and second, all in favor signify by saying aye. CHAIR, L UM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. CHAIR: Thank you Mr. Jacobson. We appreciate your time. JACOBSON: Thank you very much. L UM: Thank you for the discussion. JACOBSON: I'm sorry it took me so long to show up here, but I had all these date conflicts and I really appreciate your time on this one. 17 CHAIR: Oh, I know you're busy. JACOBSON: Well I'm not any— CHAIR: - -I wish you would have brought something a little easier just for my first one. JACOBSON: Don't say busy. I'm not any less more busy than you, I bet. Thank you very much. CHAIR and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Thank you. CHAIR: Okay, I guess we will move right along if you guys are okay with that. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Yes. b. Petition No. 2008 -6: Petition regarding Finance Director William Takaba and former Real Property Tax Administrator Wesley Takai on whether they benefited unfairly or had a conflict of interest regarding Ordinance No. 07 -107, relating to the Affordable Rental Housing Classification for properties in the affordable rental housing class as of 111108. CHAIR: Okay, I see you guys are ready, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourselves. GONZALEZ: Good morning, members of the board, Deputy Corporation Counsel Brandon Gonzalez appearing on behalf of Respondents William Takaba, the Director of Finance, and Mr. Wesley Takai. Mr. Takaba isn't present this morning. He is available by telephone, but as you can understand it is nearing the end of the fiscal year and as finance director he is quite busy. CHAIR: Okay. First do you guys have any questions on the petition itself? NICHOLSON: No. LUM: On the petition? CHAIR: Yeah. LUM: No. We did receive all this material very just a few minutes before and I was able to go through a little bit of it. CHAIR: I haven't even cracked it. NICHOLSON: I haven't looked at it. SCHOEN: Mr. Chair, if I may- 18 CHAIR: - -Yes- SCHOEN: - -I just wanted the record to reflect that Ms. Lum is referring to documents which 1 believe was delivered this morning prior to the Board's meeting from the Petitioner in this case. CHAIR: Yup. Okay. Well, and you haven't even gone through it yet, have you? SCHOEN: No, I haven't. CHAIR: You just got this same time as us. LUM: I was able to look at some of it. So like the letter, there's --I don't know, it's not numbered in pages, but there's a letter to where the Petitioner actually corrects certain things that she thinks in Mr. Takaba's extensive response that she felt that there were, that she had some questions about those because she's not appearing. It looks like this, and it's about page eight. NICHOLSON: Do we not need to take a recess to actually have time to look at this? Would that be appropriate or— CHAIR: - -Well, I'm thinking even more so, Mr. Takai is not even able to be here today- LUM: -- What ? — CHAIR: - -Mr. Takai is not able to be here today. LUM: But I think that —I really went over Mr. Takaba's very detailed response and probably more detailed than we would have gotten than if he were sitting in the chair there, because it had to be very clearly stated. I am very comfortable with how much information we have from him regarding this. CHAIR: Okay. LUM: I learned a great deal more about the tax board than probably I ever wanted to. Ever needed. I do learn a lot in this position. CHAIR: Well, I haven't got a chance to go through this, what we just received- LUM: - -The new one? CHAIR: Yeah LUM: I only— CHAIR: - -I understand what you're saying, but- LUM: - -Do we want to recess or— I9 CHAIR: Yeah, we should probably just take a break real quick. LUM: Okay. CHAIR: Can I get a motion to do that? LUM: Could we recess for —I move we recess for ten minutes. CHAIR: Okay. LUM: Ten minutes to review new material. NICHOLSON: I second that motion. CHAIR: Okay all in favor- LUM: Aye CHAIR: - -say aye. LUM: Thank you, gentlemen— CHAIR: - -All right aye- LUM: --just give us a few minutes. Recess was entered at 11:15 am. Regular Session was reentered at 11:23 a.m. CHAIR: I call the meeting back into session and continue our review of Petition number 2008 -6 from Linda Silva regarding Mr. Takaba and Mr. Takai having questionable favor granted exclusively regarding the newly created affordable rental housing classification. LUM: Okay um— CHAIR: - -and we want- LUM: - -So Mr. Takai- TAKAI: - -Yes. LUM: You're retired. You're no longer with the County, right? TAKAI: I'm retired, yes. LUM: Thank you for coming, I think it's really not required of you. 20 CHAIR: And Mr. Takai, you also had no special lobbying or anything for Bill 106, just like Mr. Takaba here? TAKAI: No. LUM: And Mr. Takai, you own some rental property? TAKAI: Yes- LUM: That is —that I understand in the affordable —but you've owned the rental property for how long? TAKAI: Since 19 —we bought it vacant in 1990, we built two homes, so since 1991. Yes. LUM: 1991, so that's —wow, that's a long time. CHAIR: And you guys have to conform any way to the County housing department and HUD. The problem 1 think we were discussing is whether —I think we need to be specific in whether the two gentlemen benefited from the violation of the ethics code rather than tying it into the details of this and whether there was a violation. LUM: Okay. I think that the main thing here is the part of our code that I have now buried in all this paper that says nothing herein shall be construed to prohibit an officer from introducing bills and resolutions, serving on committees, or from making statements or taking action in the exercise of the officer's legislative functions. Every officer shall file a full and complete public disclosure. Public disclosure of the nature and extent of the interest or transaction which the officer believes may be affected by the legislative action. Just a comment, I think that most —when you're dealing with some of things in our government, all of us live in the County and we all live in something, most of us are lucky enough to live in something or we have jobs or we have relatives or, you know, we are a community. The people that serve in the County don't really come from outside the County. So that when you're on a board like Tax or Finance that affects property, you're bound to be a renter, or an owner, or a business person. My feeling is from the information that was, the very extensive information from Mr. Takaba and from your very clear letter, it seems that your —all of you disclosed that you had property. There might be a question of whether -- because you were in on this you knew more about the program and could therefore joins the program, but I don't know that that's a big deal. CHAIR: And I think that having these houses built prior- LUM: - -Yeah, in rentals prior. I don't think either person went into rentals after this program came out. Is that correct? You have been renting for a long time? TAKAI: Yes. LUM: I thought that - -I don't know about the rest of the Board, but I thought that the conclusion, I'm looking now on page fifteen of sixteen of Mr. Takaba's response and while the response doesn't necessarily put words in our mouth, I thought that his conclusion: the 21 responsibility of recommending improvements to our tax laws is a huge and complex undertaking. Multiple proposals must be developed and subsequently recommended for approval, and he also says what is viewed as fair by one taxpayer may be a curse to another and as a property owner the motives of the finance director will inevitably be questioned as he strives to serve a greater purpose. I think he really says that not only as a finance director, but other people in the government as they strive to do their jobs run into that issue. So— CHAIR: - -Well, I agree with you- LUM: - -it says we do everything to avoid the appearance of conflict. You know I feel like he's aware and that you people in that department are aware that it's a tough thing. It's the pocket book nerve, and I'm satisfied that they were open with what they did and how they would be affected by it. CHAIR: Mr. Takai, when you were with the Finance Department, did you enforce any conflicts of interest or view any —what was the standard procedures in terms of trying to identify any conflicts of interest by you or your employees? TAKAI: I don't recall any time that we needed to do any of that because all we did, whatever benefits the employees or myself had, were benefits we got like any other tax payer or homeowner. Like I said in my letter, if you are a homeowner or occupant of your property, you are eligible for the homeowner's exemption, you have to file a claim. There's I think thirty-four thousand people that qualify for it. There's also a non - speculative residential dedication which was passed first in 1992. It's a ten-year dedication, you can freeze your value for ten years and you could renew in the year 2002. That program, there's sixteen hundred people in it. So I think there are programs that benefit the whole County, but taxpayers will have to apply for it and it's just a voluntary program. So there's three programs. I'm in the non -spec, I'm in the affordable rental, and my homeowner's exemption. Those are available to any qualified property owner. CHAIR: Okay. I think you're right and in the fact that the Finance Department is under a microscope especially if there's -1 think there's sufficient mechanisms in place to prevent conflicts from getting out of hand. So what we are tasked with - LUM: - -There is one thing, the materials that were submitted to us this morning from the Petitioner. She does make one thing about not finding financial disclosures with County Clerk, and I'd just like the record to show that these financial disclosures come to the —those particular ones come to the Board of Ethics and are not at the County Clerk, so that we do have copies of those. Those financial disclosures come from these types of jobs come through this Board rather - -the County Clerk is for elected officials and I think that's it, right. So we do have those financial disclosures on file? CHAIR: Well, I think we need to, in our opinion, specifically deal with that because of what the Petition states citing three sections. LUM: Okay. CHAIR: Do you guys have any other questions for Mr. Takai? 22 LUM: Anything on Mr. Takaba's? I don't have anything more for Mr. Takai. CHAIR: Okay. What about regarding Mr. Takaba's? LUM: Mr. Takaba. I did find his discussion very helpful in describing what they do and what the whole process, to help us understand what could happen. I think that having the process laid out so clearly was helpful. But, I do think like you, John, that the mechanisms are in place to take care of disclosing what your property is in a case of tax things. Other things come up in the County the same way we (inaudible). CHAIR: Okay, well if we don 't feel that there was fair treatment or conflicts of interest, we would like to make a motion. LUM: There is one thing —I would just reiterate that because they're in the office working with this all the time, they may be more aware and maybe more likely to apply for some of these programs, but then they also have a education, you know it comes with the — there's education process, but the rest of the people could do it. It could be that it might appear that they have an advantage just because they know more about it and knowledgeable. When you're knowledgeable about something, you think oh well this could work, but like you say it's out there, its public, people are encouraged, and I remember when they were trying to get people to apply for that. Kind of begging. CHAIR: And I think like Mr. Takaba said, any Director of Finance of the County is going to be subject to more scrutiny. LUM: Big old target on his back. How about you? NICHOLSON: I'm ready to make a motion. LUM: Go ahead, you do it this time. NICHOLSON: I move that we find that there is no violation of the code of ethics under the fair treatment section 2 -83, conflicts of interests section 2 -84, or financial disclosures and disclosures of interest under section 2 -91.1, or the petition that was — Petition No. 2008 -6 that was filed regarding Mr. Wesley Takai and Mr. William Takaba. LUM: I second. CHAIR: Okay, we have a second. Any further discussion? LUM: 1 have only one discussion. I would just like it to be noted in the opinion that the financial disclosures were filed with the Board of Ethics— CHAIR: - -okay- LUM: - -as required. I think that's all. CHAIR: Okay. If there's nothing else, all in favor signify by saying aye. 23 CHAIR, L UM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. CHAIR: Okay, that takes care of Petition No. 2008 -06 Mr. Takai, thank you very much. I appreciate it. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Thank you very much. LUM: Thank you for coming in. TAKAI: Thank you. CHAIR: Okay, moving on. LUM: Convey our thanks to Mr. Takaba for his very clear and detailed discussion- GONZALEZ: - -I will. LUM: It was very helpful. NICHOLSON: Educational. LUM: Educational but helpful too, to lay it all out. GONZALEZ: He will be very glad to hear that. He was concerned that he wouldn't be available to answer questions. LUM: No, but it was very —I mean it took some time. I know a lot more about the Tax Board than I did before, and I appreciate the work that went into it all. GONZALEZ: Thank you. CHAIR: Okay, moving on to Item 7a. 7. UNFINISHED BUSINESS a. Report from counsel on the status of the Board's request for a time limit for incumbents who are seeking reelection in an election year on sending mail -outs using County funds. SCHOEN: Mr. Chairman, this is the bill regarding campaign mail -outs. At our last meeting, our meeting was held on April ninth, the same day that this bill was before the Council on its second and final reading. It did pass, and so that law became effective on April twenty first. CHAIR: Okay. 24 LUM: And it went through just the same, right. April twenty first. SCHOEN: That's correct. LUM: And that was the one, the time limit is for six months. Was that what it was? SCHOEN: Correct. So basically the ordinance states that no letter, newsletters, brochures, legislative summaries, or other mass mailings of material designed to support a candidate's nomination may be circulated at public expense by an incumbent councilmember within six months prior to the County election or after any member has filed nomination papers, whichever comes first. LUM: Okay. SCHOEN: So that's the essence of the ordinance, and it also provides an administrative fine not to exceed one thousand dollars for each violation that the Board of Ethics determines. So this ordinance will amend our code of ethics. CHAIR: Okay. NICHOLSON: Can we get a copy of that with our next mail -out? SCHOEN: Sure. LUM: So the administrative fine is imposed by— CHAIR: - -us. SCHOEN: The administrative fine would be imposed by this Board, and that actually relates to unfinished business item number 7b— CHAIR: - -Why don't you just move right on, then. SCHOEN: Okay, so we'll move on to that. b. Report from counsel on the status of Council Bill 209, relating to the imposition of administrative fines for violations of the County Code of Ethics (includes Communication 2008 -42, an email from Lincoln Ashida, Corporation Counsel. SCHOEN: Bill 209 also was heard on April ninth before the County Council, and it passed second and final reading. That particular ordinance becomes effective upon this board promulgating rules pursuant to H.R.S. Chapter 91 and Chapter 46 So basically this board has to set up rules regarding its imposition of administrative fines. I can send you all a copy as well of that ordinance. LUM: Yes. CHAIR: Yes, please. 25 LUM: So we will have to agendize our —we will have to start our rule amending, our- SCHOEN: - -So for the next board meeting, what I can do is —I think maybe two meetings ago we discussed --I think Mr. Joseph had asked that I provide State rules regarding administrative fines and so I can do that, send you folks a copy of that so we can have that discussion about rules for the next meeting. CHAIR: Okay, great. You guys have any more questions regarding Bill 209? LUM: No. CHAIR: Okay you want to move on to item c. c. Report from counsel on the possible pursuit of an amendment to Section 2 -85(b) of the Hawaii County Code regarding the prohibition of contracting with former employees and retirees. SCHOEN: Mr. Chair item c is a report from me regarding a possible amendment of Section 2 -85(b) of our Hawai `i County Code. I don't have anything to report today. I need a continuance, and so 1 would ask that this matter be placed on the next board agenda for discussion. LUM: Wasn't that one just because the wording was strange? NICHOLSON: Yes. SCHOEN: That is - -but you folks wanted a little bit more detailed explanation as to why that was a problem, and I haven't done it so I'm not prepared to discuss it today. My apologies to the board. time. CHAIR: We need a motion to continue that? SCHOEN: No, I think it's fine that the Chair directs that we put it on the agenda for next d. Ongoing discussion on the Sunshine Law. CHAIR: Okay, what about item d. Is that going to have to continue over as well? SCHOEN: Yeah, we can keep that on if you want. I don't have any sunshine discussion. CHAIR: Unless you guys have any questions? LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): No. CHAIR: Okay, neither do 1. Okay, that being said, if I can get a motion to move into executive session. 26 LUM: I think when we do that motion, we have to say what were going to discuss right? SCHOEN: Well Mr. Chair, the motion needs to be raised and seconded, and actually the exact wording has to track H.R. S. 92, and basically the motion would be to enter executive session for the purpose of consulting with the board's attorney on questions and issues pertaining to the board's powers, duties, privileges, immunities and liabilities. LUM: I move that we go into executive session to— CHAIR: --pursuant to- LUM: --pursuant to Section 92- 5(a)(4) and 92- 5(a)(5), Hawai `i Revised Statutes, as amended, for the purpose of consulting with Corporation Counsel, our attorneys, on questions pertaining to our powers, duties, privileges, immunities and liabilities. CHAIR: Should that cover? SCHOEN: Yes. CHAIR: Okay, second? NICHOLSON: 1 second the motion. CHAIR: All in favor say aye. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. Executive Session was entered at 11:43 a.m. Regular Session was reentered at 12:03 p.m. 8. EXECUTIVE SESSION (separate minutes prepared) a. Discussion on whether the Board should release Communication Nos. 2008 -3, 2008 -17, and various emails between the Corporation Counsel, the Board, and Wayne Joseph, former chair, to attorney Stanley Roehrig pursuant to his 5123108 letter (see agenda item 5d, above). These communications deal with the Board's earlier inquiry and investigation to determine prospectively whether it is a violation of the Code of Ethics for elected and incumbent County officers to utilize their pictures in official County advertisements paid for with County funds. CHAIR: We are in regular session for a brief moment to discuss the response to the letter. LUM: I move that in response to the letter from Mr. Roehrig, that we retain our attorney- client privilege with a letter explaining - 27 CHAIR: - -Or can we just decline- LUM: - -We decline his request to waive our attorney- client privilege. CHAIR: No, decline his request for the documents- NICHOLSON: -- information- LUM: -- Information, oh okay, all right, let's start again. I move that we decline Mr. Roehrig's request for the information —what was- SCHOEN: - -Can I try it? CHAIR and LUM (simultaneously): Yeah. SCHOEN: I think your motion may be —I just had it and it left. Hold on. LUM: I know it's awful when you start it. NICHOLSON: What if we just say that we are not waiving our attorney- client privilege as related to Communication No. 2008 -53. SCHOEN: Well 1 think it has to be broader than that, because in addition to 2008 -3 there's also 2008 -17 and various other emails between our office, the board and the former chair. LUM: So I think it would have to be a motion surrounding that whole issue, right, and he calls it- SCHOEN: So it would be a motion to not release the communications dealing with the board's earlier inquiry and investigation to determine prospectively whether it is a violation of the code of ethics for elected and incumbent County officers to utilize their picture in official County advertisements paid for with County funds. CHAIR: Perfect. NICHOLSON: Well said. CHAIR: That's why you get paid the big bucks. SCHOEN: And that the board is retaining its attorney- client privilege. LUM: So can we say so moved. CHAIR: Yeah, I think so. LUM: So moved. 28 NICHOLSON: I'll second. CHAIR: Okay, any further discussion? LUM: Great wording. That's exactly what I wanted to say. And 1 think that will be in the letter, right? You'll explain that in the letter to— CHAIR: - -You will pull that stuff out and put it in the letter, right? SCHOEN: I can draft a letter for the Board. LUM: Yeah, for Mr. Roehrig, that it's you know the importance for us to be able to operate that way. SCHOEN: Since this is a time sensitive matter, I am requesting the board to allow me to just draft a letter and send it to him rather than wait till the next meeting— days. CHAIR and LUM (simultaneously): - -Yeah- SCHOEN: -- because the Information Practices Act requires a response within thirty LUM: Yeah, we're already at the end of that. CHAIR: Yeah. Okay. I guess we have to go back into executive session. LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Yes. CHAIR: All right. LUM: Thank you Renee, that was— CHAIR: - -Yeah, thanks Renee. Okay, a motion to go back into executive session. NICHOLSON: I move we resume our executive session to consider —oh I have to say all that stuff, don't I. SCHOEN: Well I think- LUM: --just return, right? SCHOEN: Yeah, return to review. NICHOLSON: Return to executive session for the purpose of reviewing the confidential financial disclosure forms. CHAIR: Second? 29 LUM: Second. CHAIR: Okay all in favor. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. Executive Session was reentered at 12:07 p.m. Regular Session was reentered at 12:35 p.m. b. Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to Section 2- 91.1(d), Hawai `i County Code, by County board and commission members, where personal matters will be reviewed. CHAIR: Okay, were back in regular session. All the financial disclosure forms have been approved except for number —can 1 just read off the numbers? SCHOEN: Yeah. CHAIR: Okay, number eight, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, eighteen, and twenty three. I apologize to Mary in advance for the emails she has to send out. Okay. SCHOEN: Is there anything specific that Mary should— CHAIR: - -Yeah, I put- SCHOEN: - -look at regarding —can we go down since she's not here. CHAIR: Yeah. Number eight is TMK number- SCHOEN: - -TMK number is missing from number eight? CHAIR: Yeah. SCHOEN: Okay. CHAIR: Number twelve needs an address. LUM: The tax map—to go with the tax map key. Is that the one? CHAIR: Yes, item five. Same thing for number thirteen, it needs a TMK on item number five. Numberfourteen needs to be completed, there's some boxes that aren'tfilled out. Number fifteen needs a TMK under item number five. Number sixteen needs an address under item number five. Number eighteen needs an address under item number five, and number twenty- three under item two, needs a present amount owed. Okay, next announcement- LUM: - -Oh, we need to accept it. 30 CHAIR: Oh, okay. So we need to move. LUM: We need to -1 think we accept and file right? CHAIR: Yeah. LUM: We need to accept the noted completed —I move that we accept the noted and completed financial disclosure forms. NICHOLSON: I'll second. CHAIR: Okay all in favor. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. 9. ANNOUNCEMENTS a. The next monthly meeting of the Board of Ethics. CHAIR: The next meeting scheduled on the ninth- LUM: - -Did we not change that? CHAIR: Yeah, I think we were going to talk about that. Is the sixteenth okay for you guys? The following Wednesday. LUM: The sixteenth? NICHOLSON: Yeah, I think I'm fine. CHAIR: Then we can move back to 10: 00. I'll be done with- LUM: - -The 10:30, the time doesn't matter to me. NICHOLSON: Yeah, either -- whatever works for you. LUM: Whatever works for you. CHAIR: 10: 00 is good. LUM: So the sixteenth. CHAIR: Okay. Sixteenth, 10:00 at the Department of Liquor Control's conference room. Anything else? 31 SCHOEN: I have something, John. Just real quickly. As you folks were looking at the financial disclosures, I thought, well, is there a better way for us to do this and maybe we can kind of look at the completeness or not completeness of the disclosures, but actually our rules say that the Board looks at whether or not they are complete and accurate. But in doing that, I did read the section on confidential disclosures and 1 noticed in our Rule 8.5 it says that administrative heads file their disclosure statements with the County Clerk, and 1 think in our earlier petition regarding Mr. Takaba and Mr. Takai you, Ms. Lum, had made specific mention that you wanted the order to say that the disclosure was filed with the County Clerk. So I just wanted to bring that up. LUM: No, they were not —they weren't supposed to be filed with the Are his filed with the County Clerk? his- CHAIR: Yeah, that's what she said SCHOEN: They are per the rule. LUM: Because he's the head? CHAIR: Yeah. LUM: Oh. Okay. SCHOEN: I don't know if that information makes a difference to the Board's- LUM: Well, but we shouldn't put it in that it was there —but we had the copies of it in SCHOEN: Right, he provided the copies but— CHAIR: They come to us too, right? SCHOEN: No. LUM: No, we don't see those. SCHOEN: They don't come to this Board, but I don't —with that disclosure, I don't believe that that information - -that it needs to be disclosed to the Clerk - -would change this Board's decision with respect to that petition. LUM: No, it wouldn't, but the fact he provided copies of it - -so when she in her letter said that it wasn't on file- SCHOEN: Okay. Well, 1 just wanted to make that question- LUM: Yeah, then 1 don't think we should even mention it in there. Just let the decision go the way without the information that it was filed because you know, I was looking at his copies and they look just like ours. 32 SCHOEN: Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. CHAIR: Okay. Can you make that note then? LUM: No, we won't put it in there. CHAIR: Yeah, make the note to not put it in there. SCHOEN: Thank you. CHAIR: Also, one more thing - -did we get a letter out to Wayne to thank him for- SCHOEN: No, we didn't but I can do that as well. CHAIR: Yes, along with Tricia. SCHOEN: The reason that that wasn't put on the agenda was because he didn't send it to the Board of Ethics. He sent his letter to the Mayor, so- LUM: - -Which is the appointing authority, so- SCHOEN: -- Right. LUM: But we should thank him for his service. NICHOLSON: Years ofservice. CHAIR: If we could. SCHOEN: Yeah, sure, 1 would be happy to do that and give it to you guys next weekfor approval, or next month -- sorry. CHAIR: And then what about this list? It's really not for us to act on or anything. SCHOEN: No. I think it was being provided to you guys to just look over and see if you knew anybody that you want to encourage to you know, felt would be a good member of the board. CHAIR: Okay. NICHOLSON: Because we want more members of the board because if someone doesn't show up, we're cooked. LUM: Yeah, we have to have unanimous votes at this point. But I don't know any of these people so far. SCHOEN: Do you know anybody, John? 33 CHAIR: I recognize a few names. LUM: I guess not many people from my side. CHAIR: You know, I tried pushing this one guy, I knew he would be good, but I couldn't convince him. I think I talked to you about that. SCHOEN: Uh -huh. CHAIR: Well then, can we get a motion to adjourn until the sixteenth? NICHOLSON: 1 move we adjourn the meeting today. LUM: Second. CHAIR: All in favor. CHAIR, LUM and NICHOLSON (simultaneously): Aye. The meeting adjourned at 12:42 p.m. Respectfully submitted: gv_w, NA Emarie Kawaauhau, Secretary 34