HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-02-12 Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission Minutes (Hilo Mtg)HAWAII COUNTY PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE AND NATURAL RESOURCES
PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES - REGULAR SESSION
February 12, 2007
Department of Liquor Control Conference Room
101 Aupuni Street, Ste. 230
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
Present: Chair Kenneth Kaneshiro
Commissioner Paul Campbell
Commissioner E. Kalani Flores
Commissioner Bill Gilmartin
Commissioner Benedict Yung
Absent: Vice -Chair Hannah Springer
Commissioner Laura Schuster
Others Present: Amy Self, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Stacie Waltjen, Secretary
Sharese Macomber, Clerk III, Finance Department
Harry Yada, Property Manager, Finance Department
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Chair Kenneth Kaneshiro at 9:30 a.m.
STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC AGENDA ITEMS
Communication No. 06 -117: Bob Wilkins: Leleiwi Community Association re: Kathleen
Paunani Aina Land. Mr. Wilkins stated that he wanted to make sure this land was
considered by the County for acquisition. Mr. Wilkins stated that it's a private property
and he wasn't sure if the current owners were interested in selling. He said that this was
two small parcels, the total area being less than quarter of an acre. Mr. Wilkins reported
that the two parcels are surrounded by a County Park. The State controls the lands
fronting the ocean at "Four Miles" and across the road at the LokoWaka fish pond. It's
an island surrounded by protected land. It was originally the Aina property. This
property was up for sale back in 2000, the County didn't move on it at that time. One of
the properties was for $8,900, the other $9,700. Since then it has changed hands a couple
of times and it's still undeveloped. One of the parcels, abutting the County Park is
wetlands. The other piece is smaller and that is an area where teenagers go hang out.
They are not under police jurisdiction, they are on private property. As a result, there is a
lot of noise and trash and the groundskeeper has to clean it up in the morning. It's a
reasonable acquisition for the County; it should not be in very much in terms of dollars.
He would like to see the County approach the owners, since it keeps changing hands, and
see if they would be willing to sell. He doesn't think it's able to build upon. The current
tax assessment was both around 9K. Not sure what actual value of properties is.
Mr. Campbell requested that Mr. Wilkins should look into the purpose of the suggested
site.
Mr. Wilkins stated that it should be added to the park. Many people think it's already a
part of the park. They are parking on the private property but, the road to get there is the
"old belt road." All the bottles and the trash are thrown across the road on the other side
of the rock wall. If you are familiar with the area, the County groundskeeper has to clean
it up every morning. The use will be to just acquire it as part of the park.
Mr. Campbell informed Mr. Wilkins that, on the Survey Form he submitted, he would be
able to check all of the categories that applied to this property.
Mr. Wilkins then went over the Survey Forms and rechecked the purpose of the
suggested site.
Mr. Gilmartin asked if Mr. Wilkins could do a little more research on the property; find
out if it is in fact able to build on or not?
Mr. Wilkins stated that it's a matter of setbacks whether it is a classification of wetland.
The setbacks, he told the commission, already are overlapping so it's a question of going
to the Planning Commission and trying to get an exemption before he can do anything.
As far as wetlands, it is wetlands as to who has jurisdiction over that he doesn't know.
Mr. Gilmartin stated that it may be wetlands but how is it actually classified, the Planning
Department would have that.
Mr. Yada confirmed that it would obviously be wetlands but, it's actually a pond. Half of
the pond is private and the other half is on State owned land under the County Parks and
Recreation.
Mr. Wilkins confessed that he didn't know who actually formally classifies lands as
wetlands, is it the core of engineers? He thinks it goes all the way to the federal level.
Mr. Yada responded that it comes in when someone is trying to do something. Then,
they will determine it. If nobody is trying to do anything, there's no official class.
Mr. Wilkins replied that since it changed hands a couple times, people obviously have an
interest in it. He is not acquainted with the people beyond the Aina family that owns it,
so he has no idea what their motives or plans are.
Mr. Yada stated that maybe the reason why it changed hands so much is because people
realize they can't do much with it.
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Mr. Wilkins replied that the County doesn't always move too quickly on things. There
was an issue about the beach road, the one way street and the gates that was mentioned in
a 2000 letter to the County. Only within the last month, they finally put up the one way
sign and beginning to close the access to make it one way. It took the County six years to
do that. It would be a shame if the County misses this opportunity and someone decides
to get an exemption from the Planning Department and goes ahead and does something.
He was willing to check with the Planning Department on whether someone has tried to
get an exemption.
Mr. Flores stated there was a new form coming out which was going to request further
detailed information beyond the older form that Mr. Wilkins turned in. Mr. Flores
informed Mr. Wilkins that he would be sent an updated form that would provide more
information about the property. (Mr. Gilmartin made it known that the more the
Commission knows the better). Mr. Flores thanked Mr. Wilkins for bringing this to the
Commission's attention. As the Commission goes through the process of assessing the
properties, they need the updated form with further information so it would be clearer at
that time.
Mr. Wilkins stated that he would do what can be done to fill out the updated form and
give the committee any additional information.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Flores moved for approval of the minutes of December 11, 2006 regular
session, seconded by Commissioner Gilmartin and carried unanimously by voice vote.
Commissioner Flores moved for approval of the minutes of December 27, 2006 special
session, seconded by Commissioner Gilmartin and carried unanimously by voice vote.
DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE REPORT
Mr. Yada thanked the Commission for their work and submission of the final report.
They were currently scheduling a meeting to go over the report to provide input to the
Mayor.
Mr. Yada stated that he received the laptop and prepared a short slide show of some
aerials of the top six or seven properties that was on the Commission's list. (the slide
show was presented). Mr. Yada stated he would be able to overlay for most of the
properties. If they have specific parcels, he could save the layers for the specific parcels.
Mr. Yada informed the Commission about the Kawa`a acquisition; the owners requested
copies of the appraisals which were forwarded to them, however, he had not heard back
from them. The offer was somewhere around 1.9 -2.0 million, he was not sure what the
actual asking price was.
Mr. Campbell asked if Mr. Yada knew what the status of the Resolution was before the
Council regarding the funding.
Mr. Yada stated that they accepted the Resolution that reflected Corporation Counsel's.
Ms. Self informed the Commission that there was one more reading coming up.
However, there was a problem with Brenda Ford's draft. She didn't show it to Mr.
Takaba prior to the Council meeting last week. Based on his conversation with Ms. Ford,
he said he could live with the dates however the dates she put in would shorten the fund
by $500,000.
Mr. Yada stated that when the discussion took place at the Council meeting, the
Administration was planning to take, as part of their fund balance actions, surplus funds
from last years budget and actually fund the 2% fund with 1.6 million. It was an
estimated amount and would reflect the amount of taxes from the date of the election or
the effective date of the election, to the remainder of the year.
Ms. Self stated that the Mayor did not have to do that because once the budget was in you
are not supposed to change that. However, the Mayor was willing to allow this money to
go in even though he really didn't have to do that.
Mr. Yada stated the Mayor, from his side, basically said we'll take 1.6 million, which
was the estimated amount that would have gone in from the election. The County would
put it into the fund. So regardless of what everyone's discussion was on when it's
effective or otherwise, the money would go in.
Mr. Campbell responded that his understanding was that Ms. Ford was trying to
maximize returns and put it in an account so it would maximize the interest; that seemed
to be one of her main points.
Mr. Yada replied that in this case, like Ms. Self stated, if you take the wording out you
actually shorten the fund half a million dollars.
Recess: 10: 07 a. m.
Reconvened: 10:12 a m.
Mr. Yada stated he didn't have that much to report.
Ms. Self informed that there is one more second reading at the next Council meeting.
Mr. Yada stated the point that it is from a money perspective; there will be another $1.6
million that would go into the 2% fund, once they approve the fund balance. Mr. Yada
was unsure on the time table of when it would happen.
Ms. Self replied that they won't know anything definitely until they pass something
because it's been changed quite a bit.
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Mr. Flores asked about the status of the Waipi`o Property.
Mr. Yada replied that they made a conditional offer at the appraisal value, but it was
conditioned upon having sufficient monies in the fund after the Kawa` a purchase. Mr.
Yada stated he got an unofficial call from the owner's representative, indicating they
were not happy with the value. They understood that the County cannot pay more than
the appraised value. They asked for an extension of time (April 30) to respond to the
offer. The owners of the land will approach Trust for Public Lands to see if they could
get additional monies. The environmental draft of the assessment will be coming out, for
publication, in the next newsletter.
Mr. Kaneshiro stated once they go out to public meetings, they will need Mr. Yada's
help.
Mr. Yada stated the State legacy's land fund was in limbo. The governor has not
appointed a Commission for that fund. He's not sure how long it will take for them to get
it up and running on their program. Their program is based on an annual grant type of
award. People would apply for funding for acquisitions, and the Commission would
review it. At the end of the year, they would decide on how to award the funds based on
the applications. Mr. Yada stated during the phone seminar they had a few weeks ago,
most funds approached acquisitions from a longer time period. Any seller that was going
to work in using the State funds was going to have an extended acquisition over a couple
of years.
Mr. Gilmartin asked if it was in the works to fix the problem of what appeared to be the
limit on the County only buying something for the assessed value or, someone else
coming in and paying the difference between the assessed value and the asking price.
Mr. Flores asked about clarifying the language in the existing ordinance.
Ms. Self replied that Corporation Counsel was talking about people donating money as
long as the County wasn't paying over the appraised value.
Mr. Gilmartin thought that the County could not participate in buying lands, if the price
was actually above the appraised value.
Ms. Self replied no, it just says that the County cannot under any circumstances pay over
the appraised value. Any donation from a private person would have to be accepted by
the Council. But, it wouldn't show up as tax payer monies being paid. That's the whole
point of the Ordinance.
Mr. Yada thought it needed to be pointed out. This was not an official opinion but, as
long as the County doesn't provide more than the appraised and as long as it's clear that
the County was not paying that additional amount.
Ms. Self replied it would not be coming from the tax payers but, from private individuals
making a donation.
Mr. Flores asked if there was a discussion about changing the wording. Mr. Flores stated
the wording was real specific about the County not purchasing anything over the
appraised value.
Ms. Self replied yes, but, the County wouldn't be purchasing anything over the appraised
value.
Mr. Flores replied they would still be buying or purchasing it for more.
Ms. Self replied that the County could allow for grants and private contributions but,
under no circumstance shall the purchased price paid for a property exceed the appraised
value.
Mr. Gilmartin stated he thought it should be clarified or reworded.
Mr. Flores stated that it should say the County should not pay more than the appraised
value, but if the purchased price was greater than the appraised value, other sources were
able to support.
Mr. Yada asked if Ms. Self could check on that.
Mr. Flores asked about the State legacy land fund. What would be the process for the
County to submit the Kawa` a land?
Mr. Yada stated the County would submit an application for funds; to combine together
with County money to purchase a property. Mr. Yada stated this may be the only way to
do larger purchases; which may take two or three years to accomplish. In the interim, we
would have to designate these funds until we find out if the State would be sharing in the
cost to purchase; the sellers would also have to be willing to wait for that to happen too.
Mr. Flores asked if there were any discussion of bringing the Trust for Public Lands to
help negotiate.
Mr. Yada stated their participation was going to be from property to property. It
depended if they felt something was worth pursuing then they would come and talk about
allocating some funds.
Mr. Flores asked at what point we engage them into the negotiations.
Mr. Yada stated that he didn't know if the County would do it from their side because it
would depend upon the lead agency from a management perspective post acquisition.
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Mr. Flores stated the Commission needed someone to help broker the deal or acquire
additional funds.
Mr. Yada stated he could contact Trust for Public Lands to see if they could come to one
of our meetings to provide some information and share their view of how things would
work.
Mr. Flores informed that Hawaii Island Trust can also be involved.
Mr. Yada stated he wasn't sure if Trust for Public Lands had an understanding of how the
State system would work without their Commission set up.
OFFICE OF THE CORPORATION COUNSEL'S REPORT
Ms. Self stated she received a phone call from an attorney that asked about the properties
on the Commission's prioritized list. The attorney told her that one of his client's
properties was on the list and there was a concern about condemnation. Ms. Self told the
attorney that this was something the Commission did not want to see happen. Ms. Self
told the attorney that once it goes to the Council, the Commission does not have control
over that.
Ms. Self stated the Commission needs to draft a rule for notifying people prior to putting
their properties on the list. The Commission needs to see if the property owners had a
problem with their property showing up on their list. For the lands already on the list,
there should be some rule for contacting them to see if they want to remove their property
from the list. Or, they could request for their properties to be removed.
Mr. Campbell stated the purpose of the Commission was to purchase and not to condemn.
Ms. Self stated the Commission has no control over that decision, the Council can
condemn if they want to. There is that cloud over the property owners because it could
affect if they wanted to sell. The County does not have the money, in the fund, to
purchase every property that is on the list. However, there's no intention of buying every
property on the list.
Mr. Yung stated that it came up at the Honoka` a public meeting. The people of the
community asked if the County were planning to condemn lands.
Mr. Flores stated there was always a potential for a property being condemned by the
State; if it's along a road, to expand a highway.
Ms. Self stated the difference with our properties was that it goes on a list. It stays on the
list for a long time without action. When you condemn a property, it doesn't stay on a
list, it gets done immediately. This prioritized list is like a "to do list" and it puts that
feeler out there in the communities that one day, this property may be purchased by the
County. Ms. Self stated it could make it difficult for the seller to sell the property
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because he has to let people know that it is on a County list for purchasing. Ms. Self
stated Mr. Vitousek mentioned there was a very good case law on this and he felt that he
would have won if he had gone to court. Mr. Vitousek also stated to Ms. Self that he had
lots of clients that want to donate properties, however, they may think twice about
donating once they see their property on the list.
Mr. Gilmartin asked if Corporation Counsel could develop the letter that would go to the
property owners.
Mr. Yung stated at the Honoka` a meeting, there was concern that the owners wouldn't
know their property was on the list. If their land was being considered, they want to be
notified and would want to know who put their land on this list.
Ms. Self stated the Commission could have a courtesy type notice letter that goes out
when the Commission has the final properties picked out.
Mr. Gilmartin stated if there was a potential problem, the property owners should be able
to sign off on something that comes back to the Committee and says, "we are okay with
it" or "we're not okay with if' to formalize their response.
Ms. Self stated she would have the Commission review it. It would have to be adopted as
a rule and it would become procedure to the Commission. The Commission would have
to work on a system on when this letter would be sent out and who's going to contact the
people. Furthermore, there needs to be another letter since we already have properties on
the list, letting the owners know that their property is on a County list and if they have a
problem with it to please let us know. Ms. Self stated we may have to have a public
hearing for rule adoption because we are dealing with the public.
CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT
Thanks to Stacie Waltj en for putting the list together. It was sent on the 27th of
December, so the Mayor has 60 days in which to transmit his list to the County Council.
Mr. Kaneshiro thanked Ms. Self for bringing up the notification letters; it would be out of
courtesy to do it. Mr. Kaneshiro stated to he hoped to get that fixed and get it moving.
The Commission missed one meeting so they need to move ahead and start setting up
outreach and public meetings. The commission needs to get their schedules set up at this
meeting because we need to get our report in before the 31st of December.
Mr. Gilmartin asked if we were short two Commissioners. Mr. Kaneshiro confirmed his
question.
Ms. Self stated they have been reviewing the list of applications and have already sent it
to the Mayor; it shouldn't take too much longer.
Mr. Kaneshiro asked if Ms. Self knew if /when Ms. Schuster was coming back. Ms. Self
stated she spoke to Ms. Schuster and she should be back to the meetings in May. Ms.
Self stated that Ms. Schuster really didn't want to resign.
Mr. Campbell stated Ms. Ford's office called him and wanted him to recommend
somebody from the seventh district.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
• Create a time line for 2007
Tentative: January get meeting dates (review)
February - May: Public meetings, sending out PSA's, article's and
ad's regarding the public meetings.
June 29th: Due date for the intakes
June - September: Do assessments
October - December: Finalize the report
• Discussion of assessment and criteria and revision of forms.
Commissioner Flores moved to change the name of form, change to include
acreage: on TMK line, above contact name to include question please provide,
change the due date to June 29, 2007 and double check web address.
Seconded by Commissioner Campbell and carried unanimously by voice vote.
Mr. Jeffrey Melrose, a member of the public, spoke to the Commission about getting
some properties acquired. Mr. Melrose stated it was important to move quickly; the
Commission should start working with The Public Land Trust; that could help to make
things happen more quickly. Mr. Melrose stated shortening the time frame to acquire the
properties was going to be really important for the credibility of the Commission.
Mr. Melrose stated the concept of entitlements may not be clear to the public. The most
important thing they could do for the public was to acquire easement rights; to be able to
get to County owned property.
Mr. Campbell asked Mr. Melrose if he had any expertise in working with the Public Land
Trust.
Mr. Melrose stated in order to bring this from concept to reality; the Commission needs
to make one acquisition work first. The Commissioners need to find a way to do that.
Mr. Melrose stated the list will morph over the years as well as the issues however
moving quickly was the key thing.
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Revising the 2007 Assessment Criteria Form:
Commissioner Flores moved to further revise the 2007 suggestion form. Seconded
by Commissioner Campbell and carried unanimously by voice vote.
Commissioner Flores moved to approve the 2007 assessment criteria form as
amended. Seconded by Commissioner Yung and carried unanimously by voice
vote.
Recess: 12:33 p.m
Reconvened: 12:43 p. m.
NEW BUSINESS
• Discussion of format regarding the report for December 2007.
Mr. Kaneshiro suggested inserting visuals in priority property list to give the
Mayor and Council an idea of what the Commission was talking about.
Ms. Self suggested going on site visits for certain parcels once it had been
narrowed down. However, the Commissioner's are not allowed to talk about the
priority of the property and how it would be ranked. You just have to go there
and look and see the property.
Ms. Self reported about the meeting with Finance and Corporation Council which
was held on January 9, 2007. As a result of the meeting, it would be up to the
administration to authorize negotiating. The Finance Department will have to see
how much monies are in the fund and do what they can do that is within the fund.
Mr. Yada stated the Commission can't control what the Mayor or the Council does.
Mr. Flores stated someone from this Commission should go to meet with the Mayor
and /or Council and explain the list verbally and address some of the recommendations at
the same time too.
Ms. Self stated whatever the Commission feels strongly about, the process or the list,
they should include that in the report because it goes to the Mayor and it also goes to the
Council. They get everything the Mayor gets, plus his recommendations and comments.
ANNOUNCEMENT:
Next meeting is on Monday, March 12, 2007 in Kona, at the Department of Liquor
Control, Conference Room, 75 -5722 Hanama Place, Suite 1107, Kailua -Kona, Hawaii.
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ADJOURNMENT:
Mr. Campbell moved to adjourn the meeting; Mr. Gilmartin seconded the motion and all
members voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 1:30 p.m.
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