HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-06-12 Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission Minutes (Hilo Mtg)HAWAII COUNTY PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE AND NATURAL
RESOURCES PRESERVATION COMMISSION
MINUTES - REGULAR SESSION
June 12, 2007
Department of Liquor Control Conference Room
101 Aupuni Street, Ste. 230
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
Present: Vice -Chair Hannah Springer
Commissioner E. Kalani Flores
Commissioner Benedict Yung
Commissioner Kim Garcia
Commissioner Paul Campbell
Commissioner Laura Schuster
Absent: Chair Kenneth Kaneshiro
Commissioner Bill Gilmartin
Others Present: Amy Self, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Harry Yada, Property Manager, Finance (left 10:30 a.m.)
Sharese Macomber, Clerk III
Stacie Waltjen, Secretary
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Vice -Chair Hannah Springer at 10:04 a.m.
STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC AGENDA ITEMS
None
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Commissioner Campbell moved for approval of the minutes ofMay 14, 2007 regular
session as amended, seconded by Commissioner Yung and carried unanimously by voice
vote.
Mr. Yung amended his name from those that were present. He was not present on May
14, 2007 commission meeting.
Ms. Schuster amended a typo on page 4, second paragraph... "the word `one' should be
`on "'.
WRITTEN COMMUNICATION
Mr. Flores stated for the purposes of record keeping, when the suggestion forms are
received, there's a box in the back of the form to mark the date received. There is also a
box next to that to check off indicating if the suggestion form included any attachments.
It gives the Commissioners a quick glance to see if any of those attachments were turned
in or not.
Communication No. 07 -012: an e -mail to Amy Self from John Replogle re: 20th Annual
National Land Conservation Conference.
Ms. Springer stated whether they are able to attend or not, it's good to know that events
like these were occurring across the country. This Commission could invite people like
Mr. Replogle to come and speak on the proceedings of the event.
DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE REPORT
Mr. Yada stated he attended the meeting of the Board of Land and Natural Resources last
Friday on June 8, 2007. Based on their actions, the DLNR awarded a grant to the County
in the amount of $1,234,750.00 to go towards the purchase of 234.293 acres near Kawa'a
Bay. The County should be getting an offer letter by the end of June, which we would
have to accept to encumber that. Mr. Yada stated that would then give us two years to
consummate that transaction.
Mr. Yada stated he received a call from the owner of the Marcia Johnson's group and she
indicated they were conducting their own appraisal. They anticipate completion of the
appraisal within the next month. Mr. Yada stated she verbally indicated that she would
accept whatever conclusion that appraisal will be.
Mr. Yada discussed the Punalu`u hearings on Councilman Jacobson's resolution
authorizing purchase at Punalu`u. Mr. Yada stated there were passionate testimonies
from both sides. Mr. Yada stated he had concerns because of the discrepancies between
the two sides as to what was being authorized to purchase. Mr. Yada stated the
impression he got from the Commission's discussion was that it focused more on just
along the ocean. Mr. Yada stated he's not sure what the interpretation of the
Commission's priority recommendation was and whether there were any concerns there.
Mr. Yada stated he did point out that there seemed to be different positions on what
should be acquired.
Mr. Campbell asked how far the SMA setback from the water was.
Ms. Schuster replied that it depended on where they have drawn that line on the map and
it could be as far up as the highway.
2
Mr. Flores stated he thought they also had a problem when the initial resolution went
forth because there were wrong TMK's presented. Mr. Flores stated he thought it had
included some of the private owner parcels.
Mr. Yada stated prior to these hearings he met with Councilman Jacobson to clarify and
correct some of the TMK's.
Ms. Springer stated when they receive the suggestion forms but there is no clarity as to
where the line should be drawn, how does this Commission get clarity when it comes
time to do their recommendation?
Mr. Yada suggested when the Commission enters a recommendation of priorities, if there
is a reference to TMK's, they shouldn't use only a certain portion. The Commission may
need to be clearer because it leaves it open for interpretation; someone may say it's the
whole TMK.
Ms. Springer asked if there is a TMK that is a large amount of acreage, should this
Commission only suggest the SMA portion of it. Would that be sufficient?
Mr. Yada replied that he doesn't think that it has to be tied to the SMA, but there should
be something referencing it, i.e. distance.
Mr. Flores asked if they would have to subdivide. It is possible to purchase only a
portion of a TMK.
Mr. Yada stated when a conservation easement is acquired, there is no need to subdivide.
It would depend on what is being done. Mr. Yada stated if it were to be acquired, then it
would need to be subdivided.
Ms. Garcia responded that they would have to take on an individual basis.
Ms. Springer asked Mr. Yada if that was the job of this Commission.
Mr. Yada stated the job of this Commission is to come up with the recommended
priorities. Mr. Yada stated the lesson in this is to be more specific, especially when
dealing with portions of larger parcels.
Ms. Schuster stated the Commission should be careful about how they make decisions on
how far inland, because of cultural resource sites. She would be open to having that
boundary surveyed to determine what would be appropriate for that particular area. Ms.
Schuster stated it would be hard to have a flexible boundary but it would be more
appropriate.
Ms. Springer asked Ms. Schuster how her recommendation would be implemented.
Ms. Schuster stated she wasn't sure. She wasn't sure how you could have that flexibility
worked into the decision making of a particular parcel.
Ms. Springer stated for this particular topic on the Kawa`a property, they have amended
to include the number of specific TMK's. But, for the broader discussion, we need to
keep this in mind and need to be thinking on it. Ms. Springer stated if /when this
Commission makes similar recommendations; we need to be prepared to pick up the
issues that have been discussed today.
Ms. Self passed around the original bill. Ms. Self stated in looking at the map it shows
you how far and how many TMK's they had included. It goes way beyond what this
Commission recommended; it even included the golf course.
Ms. Springer stated that Councilman Jacobson's measure goes beyond what this
Commission had recommended and really took on a life of its own.
Mr. Yada stated his concern was that a lot of the statements made in the "Whereas..." is a
stating fact. It gave the impression that this represented the Commission's
recommendations. Mr. Yada stated the way the facts were stated, it eluded that was the
recommendation of this Commission and the reason behind the resolution, which was not
exactly true because it misstated the Commission's intent. Mr. Yada stated he felt it was
up to the Commission to say something because he was not here at that time this
recommendation was made.
Mr. Yada stated another point that bothered him was the Mayor's recommendation to the
Council centered on the County Park and the resolution goes farther than that. Mr. Yada
stated it starts becoming questionable when it starts stretching beyond the intent of the
Commission and the Mayor. Mr. Yada stated the other part that concerned him was that
the Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources fund was intended to be an
acquisition that's voluntary. Mr. Yada stated he did not think it was designed in our
ordinance to be a condemnation action. So, if there was no willing seller as to areas
beyond the County Park by the developer or the owner of the property, he was not sure
what use the resolution was if we don't have a willing seller.
Mr. Campbell stated he spoke to Mr. Jacobson and he thought Mr. Jacobson and the
Council members were struggling with the same things this Commission was. We are
defining new territory here, so it's a big learning curve for all of us.
Ms. Garcia stated for this Commission to not take archeological consideration into what's
being done was not doing a good job of preserving the land for the community. Ms.
Garcia stated this Commission would need to take the whole parcel into consideration
and not just half of a site. Ms. Garcia stated it would have to be on an individual basis.
Mr. Yada stated we needed to be reminded that these sites are also protected under
historic preservation laws.
0
Ms. Garcia stated but it was not being protected as they could be.
Mr. Yada stated the laws were pretty strict and subject to fairly significant penalties. Mr.
Yada sated they are protected and he didn't know if ownership necessary affects that.
Ms. Garcia stated by having a County Park surrounding these sites, instead of them being
in the bushes or surrounded by development, at least they would have a bit more
protection.
Ms. Schuster stated it's through the permit process that they are brought to the attention
of the Planning Department. You can't get a permit unless you're particularly in a coastal
area and that's when the coastal zone management is triggered.
Ms. Garcia stated she sees sites run over all the time by development.
Ms. Schuster stated that it doesn't prevent it from happening but it is the process that
brings it to the attention of the State Historic Preservation office.
Ms. Self stated if they don't go in for entitlement, they could do anything. They could
destroy it if they want. Unless they come in for entitlement, they have to do the
archeological survey.
Ms. Schuster stated even that does not protect it because of private property rights and
that would be the priority.
Ms. Springer stated this Commission was not an enforcement agency. There are Federal
and State provisions in the County Planning Process, which provide for the review of
sites, like what we are discussing today. Ms. Springer asked what could be done to help
this Commission and the County Council do their collective work in an organized
fashion.
Ms. Self replied that there is no guidance in the code. She would think that if a Council
member was intending on drafting a resolution to use the 2% fund to purchase a property,
they could contact the Chair of this Commission and ask. There is always that
opportunity for them to contact the commission and ask however we can't force them to
do that. Ms. Self stated she thought it would be a welcome suggestion to the Council. In
the past they asked for some guidance from the Commission. Ms. Self stated it would be
appropriate to make a suggestion such as that in this Commission's report for this coming
year.
Ms. Springer asked if the appropriate place to add the suggestion would be in the annual
report rather then a separate letter.
Ms. Self stated that it would be up to the Commission how they want to convey the
suggestion. It may be more of an impact if it is in the report because that would be when
they are definitely going to be focusing on this.
Mr. Campbell suggested that each Commissioner should work closely with their district
Councilman, in addition, to what we are saying.
OFFICE OF THE CORPORATION COUNSEL'S REPORT
Ms. Self asked the Commissioner's what they thought about the Land Conservation &
Tools seminar they attended on May 30, 2007 at the King Kamehameha Hotel.
Mr. Campbell stated he thought it was awesome. He learned so much of how the process
and laws apply. He feels much more capable in conveying that to people.
Ms. Self stated she thought it was awesome. Ms. Self stated it was an inexpensive and
informative seminar.
Ms. Springer stated she could see making suggestions to individual land owners.
However, how do we use the information there for the work of this commission?
Ms. Self stated that was the problem. Ms. Self stated she sees it as good information for
the Commission to have however she doesn't see it as something the Commission could
use because it is a private agreement between the private landowner and the government.
Mr. Flores stated he thought it could be used, such as in the Kawa`a property. They
could take the conservation easement federal tax credit, in lieu of, actual payment. It
could be used as a tool because you don't have to buy the whole property.
Ms. Self stated the problem was that the Commission couldn't be involved in the
negotiations however Mr. Yada could. It is a tool that the County could use, but not the
Commission.
Ms. Self stated she thought the Council members would benefit from the seminar because
they are the ones that are contacted by the landowners.
Ms. Springer asked if they could put in an appendix on the annual report that gave a
summary of this workshop. They could attach it just as an appendix so it won't detract
from their list and where the Commission wants them to focus.
Mr. Flores stated he hoped that the conservation law would be extended beyond 2007.
Mr. Flores stated it was the Federal Conservation Easement Tax Bill. Mr. Flores stated
that Ms. Garovoy previously gave them background information but this workshop
explained it more in detail of how it works and how it could work for a landowner.
Ms. Schuster informed the group about another federal group. She was not sure of the
name of it. Ms. Schuster believed it's used to broker land or development areas. It's a
federal funding that is used to help preserve corridors.
31
Ms. Springer stated maybe they could pull together, in their report, a section on ways that
money and credits could be available. They could include that as another appendix. Ms.
Springer stated if any of the Commissioner's has knowledge of funds or programs, they
could add to this list. Ms. Springer stated part of the Ordinance says this Commission
will identify other sources of funding for the benefit of the County.
CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT
None
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
• Discuss with the Commission the need to adopt a rule regarding notification of
property owners on the priority list.
Ms. Self stated she's been researching it and she wasn't sure if it was a case that was filed
in court because she has not been able to find it in the court records. Ms. Self stated she
called the DLNR office in Hilo and they didn't know what she was talking about. Ms.
Self explained that attorney Mr. Vitousek either threatened a lawsuit or filed a lawsuit
against DLNR because they had a list of properties which put a cloud on the title of these
properties. Mr. Vitousek represented one of the landowners. The properties were not
scheduled to be condemned. Ms. Self stated from the way Mr. Vitousek described the
list, it was like the list that the Commission has. This Commission could send out a
notice letter to the landowners prior to being put on the list and before it goes to the
Mayor. Ms. Self stated for the properties they already have on their list, this Commission
has no control over it because it already went to Council. Ms. Self stated once it goes to
Council, the Commission has no authority to remove properties on the list. Ms. Self
stated to do so would require a bill being passed by the Council to amend the County
Code.
Ms. Springer stated it could have been in the 80's. There was an incident with a list
being withdrawn because of an issue of the individual landowners not being notified.
Ms. Schuster stated this was for the State Historic Sites Division. Ms. Schuster stated
that an island wide survey was done by the State Historic Sites Division back in the late
70's. Ms. Schuster stated that historic sites were identified and forms were filled out.
Ms. Schuster stated many of the forms were withdrawn because the process was not
followed correctly. The landowners had to be notified that their property was being
considered and they needed approval from that property owner for inclusion in either the
state register of historic places or the national register.
Ms. Springer stated that it may be a rule that already existed; the landowner needed to be
notified. Ms. Springer stated this Commission doesn't have such a rule.
Ms. Schuster stated even the legislation for Historic Preservation Act does say you have
to notify the owner and you need to have the owner's concurrence.
7
Ms. Springer stated when this Commission considered the process was flawed they went
back and reconsidered everything. That would be the only way we could capture
everything. This Commission could go back and work with the comprehensive list all
over again.
Ms. Self stated her concern that if they go to Council and approve an amendment to the
Code to allow people to take their land off the list, this Commission may not have any list
left. Ms. Self stated she didn't know if that would happen, but it could.
Mr. Yung asked if there is a property on the list and they don't want to sell to the County,
what happens.
Ms. Self stated if they don't want to sell it then the County would not pursue it; unless the
Council wanted to condemn. Ms. Self stated that's what they have been doing; once they
made those resolutions, Finance contacts the owner and asks them if they are interested in
selling. No one is forcing them to sell. Ms. Self stated if they don't accept the offer, the
County goes down to the next property that's been in resolution by the Council. Ms. Self
stated she hoped the Council doesn't get to the point where they start condemning
properties.
Ms. Schuster stated this Commission has no authority over the decisions. The
Commission's list is sent directly to the Mayor and the Mayor is the one that makes those
decisions. Ms. Schuster stated she didn't think we need to go that route because this
Commission is just advisory. Ms. Schuster stated this list is comprised of the
community's suggestions, and the Mayor does all the regulations. Ms. Schuster believed
that it was out of the Commission's hands, if it was something that was a legal issue, then
that is where Ms. Self provides her guidance.
Ms. Springer stated once Ms. Self's research was finished and the Commission gets
clarity on the process, if they could put a little section in the annual report or on the web
to disclose that information. That way the process would be transparent. Ms. Springer
stated it could be a few sentences that would indicate that this was a list and there were
no encumbrances attached to it.
NEW BUSINESS
• Discussion of updating the commission's website.
Ms. Springer asked who was responsible for updating the website.
Ms. Self stated the Finance Department takes care of that.
Ms. Springer asked Ms. Self if this Commission wanted to include the proceedings from
the workshop or their discussion of acquisition, would it be possible to insert that.
Ms. Self stated yes, they would just have to write it out and send it over to Data since
they control the website.
Ms. Springer stated it might be something for this Commission to consider. A
subcommittee could be set up for the Commissioner's that are interested in doing this
type of outreach and then something could be brought back to the table.
Ms. Schuster stated she was thinking of finding links to opportunities for funding. Ms.
Schuster stated that a subcommittee could do that.
Ms. Springer asked Ms. Schuster if she wanted to initiate something now.
Ms. Schuster stated yes.
Ms. Schuster asked the commission members who would like to be involved.
Mr. Campbell and Ms. Garcia both agreed to be part of this subcommittee.
Ms. Self informed the subcommittee that they could meet outside of this meeting and
then report their findings back at the next Commission meeting. The Commission can't
vote at that meeting; it had to be at another subsequent meeting before they can adopt
something.
• Discussion of funds for maintenance, purchased from the Public Access, Open
Space and Natural Resources Preservation Fund.
Ms. Garcia stated she believed that it was important to have this fund because if we are
going to give big parcels of land to anybody, they should have a maintenance fund. Or,
the County should have the maintenance funds. We should talk to the County Parks
director.
Ms. Self stated that Ms. Patricia Engelhard will be coming to the August meeting. Ms.
Self said that Parks has no money for maintaining anything that is being put under their
control as a result of the Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation
funds being used to purchase park land. Ms. Self stated one of the problems was that the
code itself, does not allow the money to be used for that purpose. It is only "for
purchasing the property and incidental cost involved in purchase, which would be,
appraisals, title reports, surveying, and other costs incidental to the acquisition of land
shall be permitted to uses of this fund." Ms. Self stated the only thing that the fund could
be used for was the actual purchase of land and incidental costs.
Ms. Garcia stated it doesn't make sense that we are going to acquire the land, give it to
the County, and then they have no money to deal with it.
Ms. Self stated they could always suggest to the Council members that they amend the
code to allow some of the 2% monies to be used for maintenance.
M
Mr. Campbell stated he did not want to see this fund being picked apart for maintenance.
He suggested to trying to find other funds or create another fund. Mr. Campbell
reiterated what Mr. Yuen said before that maintenance was related to the use that the land
was going to be put to, for example, if it's just a conservation easement, leave the land as
is. Mr. Campbell stated he thought the priority should be trying to form local groups that
were willing to step up and say they'll take care of this property; that would be the most
desirable.
Ms. Garcia stated she agreed with Mr. Campbell and that she would be willing to work
with small community groups in Kona to support and maintain their little public accesses
that they have. Ms. Garcia stated since a subcommittee was formed to look for additional
funding through different resources maybe we could take into consideration trying to
develop maintenance funds too.
Ms. Springer stated when the Suggestion forms come in, this Commission looks to see if
they have identified community groups that are already established and working in that
area. That is something this Commission takes into consideration in their evaluation of a
site; looking at the strength of the community support and participation. Ms. Springer
stated that was done previously in the Commission's evaluation of the Suggestion Forms.
Ms. Garcia stated she was really concerned about maintenance; what if there was a local
group taking care of a certain site but the person filling out the form did not add that
piece of information in.
Ms. Springer stated they hear those same comments at the public meetings they had been
to and they have entered into a discussion with the public.
Mr. Campbell asked Ms. Self if each council member had a discretionary fund. Could
those funds be used for maintenance?
Ms. Self stated yes because discretionary funds had to be used for public purposes and
programs that were already in place with the Department; so it could be placed into Parks
& Recreation for maintenance of a park.
Ms. Garcia asked if each council member had a discretionary fund that was allotted to
them every year.
Ms. Self replied yes.
Mr. Flores stated another alternative would be to petition the Council to include another
position in the budget. Mr. Flores stated in the upcoming budget, perhaps another
position or positions for half -time could be added to the budget to handle additional work
hours that may be needed for maintenance purposes.
10
Ms. Self stated the Commission should wait till they talk to the Director of Parks and
Recreation Pat Englehard. Ms. Self stated she told Ms. Englehard that the commission
was interested in learning about "Friends of the Park" and asked Ms. Englehard to bring a
sample agreement they had with a community group that helps to maintain a park. Ms.
Self stated it was like the "Adopt -A- Highway" program.
Mr. Campbell stated he received in the mail something from the National Parks Service.
Mr. Campbell stated it was a national program that was aimed at local conservation
projects, including maintenance of local parks.
ANNOUCEMENTS
The next meeting is scheduled for Monday, July 9, 2007, 10:00 a.m. at the Department of
Liquor Control Conference Room, 75 -5722 Hanama Place, Suite 1107, Kailua -Kona,
Hawaii.
ADJOURNMENT
Mr. Campbell moved to adjourn the meeting; Mr. Yung seconded the motion and all
members voted aye. The meeting adjourned at 11:38 a.m.
Respj2qtfully s bmitted,
Stacie altje , Secretary
11