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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RDC 2011-09-00.tif2011 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 7th Session Friday, September 9, 2011 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 CALL TO ORDER: CHR. SIRACUSA: Good morning everybody. Today is Friday, September 9, 2011, and this is the seventh session of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission. Thank you all for coming. ATTENDANCE: Present: Mr. Joseph Carvalho, Commissioner Mr. Patrick Kahawaiola' a, Commissioner (Kona) Mr. Craig "Bo" Kahui, Commissioner (11:00 a.m. Kona) Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Commissioner Mr. Jeffrey Melrose, Commissioner Mr. Mike Middlesworth, Commissioner (Kona) Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Ms. Valerie Poindexter, Commissioner Ms. Linda Ugalde, Commissioner Absent: None Also Present: Michael Udovic, Deputy Corporation Counsel Pat Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator Cori Saiki, Elections Assistant Shyla Ayau, Senior Elections Clerk Nora Avenue, Administrative Assistant to Clerk Steve Offenbaker, Legislative Specialist Manu Hanano, Council Aide in Waimea Leslie "Lali" Robinson, Council Aide in Kona Karen Eoff, Secretary STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS CHR. SIRACUSA: The first thing on the agenda is Statements from the Public on Agenda Items. Testimony will be taken only on items on the agenda and will be limited to three minutes per item. Will you time that for us, Nora? Thank you. Yen, will you come up please. YEN CHIN (At this time Yen Chin came forward to address members of the Commission.) YEN CHIN: Actually I'm not completely prepared right now, but I'll go forward anyway. I want to begin by saying thanks to the Commissioners and their support staff for all your hard work. What you are doing here is very important, that is why I have come here on several occasions; but I haven't been here every time because I've had colleagues who have been able to speak on behalf of Puna in my absence. You, however, have had to be here all the time, and I thank you for that. So, now that I have you nicely buttered up, I just want to speak on behalf of Puna. I am the president of Friends of Puna's Future, and from my perspective Puna really should have two representatives on the Council whose primary constituency resides in Puna. I recently heard some body say that Puna now has three representatives, because parts of Puna reside in three different districts. I think this is, at best, naive, because it presumes that the minority interest is always taken into account, and that is just not true; I wish it were. I've tried to do plans, and I know what difficulties you run into. I know Puna, because I live there. I don't know much about the other side of the island. I go there; it's nice and sunny most of the time. But, I don't know the particulars there. I don't know what is actually going on, on the ground. But, what I know of Puna is it is very difficult, for example, to include Volcano in a Puna district, because of the way the numbers run. I'm sure, Linda, you have come across that. I know that there are challenges that you have, but fairness and justice for Puna, means that Puna must have two. Thank you again. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you very much. That was Yen Chin testifying on behalf of Friends of Puna's Future. Are there any other testifiers at this time? I only had one slip. Okay, thank you. APPROVAL OF MINUTES CHR. SIRACUSA: The next item is Approval of the Minutes. It has been brought to my attention that there were two minor errors. I would like to read those two errors and then accept a motion to approve with the corrections. So, under Attendance, listed as Also Present was Patricia Nakamoto, Elections Program Administrator, but actually she was not here. So we have to remove here name from that. Then, on page 7, the testimony from Ms. Eoff, our Secretary, stated that we need some time to let Public Works produce some of the large maps. She did say that, but her miss - spoke; what she meant was the Information Technology people. So for the sake of accuracy, we need to correct that in the final draft of the minutes. Now that you know what that is, I will accept a motion to approve the minutes of August 24, 2011 2 Mr. Kanuha moved to approve the minutes of the August 24, 2011 Hawai` i County Redistricting Commission meeting with corrections. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. COMMUNICATIONS COMM. 36: UPDATE POPULATION EXTRACTIONS AND ESRI SOFTWARE From Commission Chair, Rene Siracusa, dated September 1, 2011, requesting an update on the status of the population extractions for the County of Hawaii. COMM. 36.1: From Royce Jones, Hawaii- Pacific Islands Region Manager of Esri, dated September 1, 2011, regarding completed population extractions for the County of Hawaii, the status of updating the Esri Software, and selection of extraction model to be used for final population numbers. COMM. 36.2: From Royce Jones, Hawaii- Pacific Islands Region Manager of Esri, dated September 8, 2011, explaining the process and timeline for updating Esri Online Software, and instructions for migrating a previously created plan to reflect the new population base with the non - resident extractions. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do I have a motion to close file? Ms. Ugalde moved to close file on COMM. 36. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. CHR. SIRACUSA: Royce has presented us with basically three scenarios for the extractions. As you can see, Extraction A is the ones that we know for sure; 793 students. Extraction B includes A. and adds three military living on base, but it says that while we know their specific location, we do not know their actual status as permanent or non permanent. Then the Extraction C. includes A and B and in addition, includes 125 non resident students who are only located by zip code. So what we have to decide is which extraction we will instruct Royce to do. And as soon as we do, he can have that all on the software tomorrow for us. Has the Commission had a chance to look over these three scenarios? Does any one want to say something in favor or against any of them? MR. CARVALHO: Can we just leave them in? Instead of removing them can we just leave them in? 3 CHR. SIRACUSA: I think we had already decided that we had to do the student extractions. The question is there are three different ways these extractions can be done. MR. CARVALHO: I would be in favor of if you are going to remove one section, you should remove them all. I would go with C. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay. Dru, what is your manao? MR. KANUHA: I'm fine with C. I would like to hear what the other Commissioners have to say first, though. CHR. SIRACUSA: Mike. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: C is fine with me. It doesn't make any difference. I don't think it is going to matter in the end anyways, so whatever you want to do. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: C includes everyone that needs to be extracted, so that's they way I think we should go. That's the numbers they came up with; we just can't wait around for any more numbers. I would have to assume that's the numbers we gotta use. CHR. SIRACUSA: You are absolutely right. We cannot wait around for any more numbers. MS. UGALDE: I agree with C, removing all the non - residents. MS. POINDEXTER: I actually like Pat's idea about leaving every one in. The whole reason behind that is this is just another wrinkle in Hawaii County voter redistricting. Patrick stated before that you have people who are incarcerated that are counted in, but are non - voters, then you have the alien population who are counted in and are non - voters; and the common denominator even with the military, the students who are here, the aliens, and people who are incarcerated is that they all access the services within their district. So why would they go back to the mainland to vote for somebody who is not providing them the services they are receiving? So, my thing is that I would love to just leave them counted all in and just be equal with that. But, if I had to choose, I would agree with C, but I needed to give that opinion because I'm looking at what is fair and what is equal. CHR. SIRACUSA: So let me get this straight. You are going for scenario C? MS. POINDEXTER: If I had to choose, yes. CHR. SIRACUSA: Jeff, what is your take on this? MR. MELROSE: I think the numbers change a little bit in every district. When we accept C, what we are saying is that each district will have 100 less people in it than we had been planning for. In other words, instead of 20,560, we are going to be having 20,460. Those are the numbers we will use in that circumstance. The difference between A. B and C at that level is de minimus to me. Although I would agree that the rule about excluding non - residents is a question; the fact is, it's a rule, it's the law and that is what we are here to enforce. So, besides my own personal view on that, I don't think anything other than we should follow that rule. I would go along with C just as everybody else did; it's not a big deal. I'm a little bit uncomfortable with not knowing where people live, and then taking them out anyway. I find that uncomfortable, but I think that with an abundance of caution, if we did that, it isn't going to make a dramatic difference with what we end up with. So, I'd rather be cautious with this number; extract it all, and just get on with it. That would be my suggestion. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. And now I'll tell you what my take was when I read this at first. I thought definitely extraction A. The reason is that extraction B, they are not sure about those three military. They say they are not even sure if they are permanent or non - permanent residents. So how can we count them, or not count them? In any event, it is such a small, three people, it's not going to make a difference in any way, shape, or form. However, the extraction C, which includes those students with zip codes, somebody could have a zip code in one place, and live somewhere completely different. I know people who live in Puna, and get their mail in Hilo, because they work in Hilo. I know people who have moved from one district to the other, but because it is so difficult to get a P.O. Box, they have left their P.O. Box in their original place. So that really doesn't tell us anything about where they live, or what population, or census block they should be extracted from. So my personal feeling is to go with A. But if everyone else seems to feel that C is the right way to go, my vote won't make a difference anyway. So I will ask for a motion. MR. MELROSE: Point of order. Do we have, on the agenda, is this appropriately agendized for us to decide how to make that decision today? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. Basically, what our job is right now is to choose A, B or C. So if everyone seems to like C, then someone should make a motion to that effect. MR. KANUHA: Madam Chair, hearing your reasoning behind it and looking at it again, I feel that A is more certain, and I would probably choose A. MR. UDOVIC: Madam Chair, you could just ask how many votes for A, how many votes for B and how many votes for C, and see where you end up. MR. MELROSE: Just as an additional thought; I was uncomfortable saying C, except everyone was kind of headed in that direction. I have the same feeling that the three military is not a big deal and frankly I would rather include military. And if we are not even sure about them, then I would hate to remove somebody unnecessarily. I know my nephew gets his mail at my P.O. Box and not at his home; and he goes to school. So I know that is an issue. It creates an uncertainty and an unfairness of elimination where maybe we shouldn't be doing that. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Can I ask a silly question? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, please. 5 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: How may people died yesterday; do we know? How many people are going to be born tomorrow? Are we going to quibble over three people? This is silly. CHR. SIRACUSA: I'm waiting for a motion. Mr. Kahawaiola'a moved to accept Extraction C. Seconded by Mr. Middlesworth and carried by the following vote. Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde. Noes: Commissioners Kanuha, Melrose, and Chair Siracusa. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. The motion to close file on COMM. 36 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. MR. MELROSE: Can I ask a clarifying question on the last action? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MR. MELROSE: So the action that we took, someone is going to convey that to Royce? Is that the Elections Office? CHR. SIRACUSA: Karen is going to telephone Royce and he will have it up and on the web site tomorrow. And there is a second email from him that talks about how we are supposed to do that; and it was on our desk this morning. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, and it wasn't only for us, but for members of the public who had submitted plans, also, if they want to tweak their plans accordingly. MR. MELROSE: This was actually to adjust the numbers in an existing plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes it was. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: So far, I can't make it work. CHR. SIRACUSA: It is not up yet. Lei MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yes it is. CHR. SIRACUSA: Royce won't do those extractions until after Karen calls him and tells him what we voted on. So those extractions aren't done yet; that's why you can't get it up. MR. UDOVIC: Madam Chair, if you just want to take a five minute recess, and give Karen a chance to call Royce, we could probably do that. MR. MELROSE: Let's just keep going. MR. CARVALHO: Mike, I think I have the same problem. I was extracting according to the directions, and I got to about the middle of it, and when I was creating the "export" I got hung up. Is that what happened to you? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yes, the same thing happened to me. Somewhere in there something gets hung up. MR. CARVALHO: Okay, at least now Royce is going to do it for us. CHR. SIRACUSA: So, Karen is in the process right now of calling Royce to let him know our decision and then he will have that all corrected and in the software by tomorrow. COMM. 37: DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION OF DRAFT PLAN From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated September 1, 2011, requesting discussion on the deadline for submission of a Draft Redistricting Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: Obviously we can't do this until after we've had all those public hearings and heard what everybody has to say. Did we all bring our calendars? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That is not close even, Rene. We have to have a deadline for submission of Draft Plans so we can then decide which plans we are going to take to the public hearings. CHR. SIRACUSA: I thought we were taking more than one plan to the public hearings. MR. MELROSE: Yes, we are. CHR. SIRACUSA: Karen, can you please clarify? KAREN EOFF (At this time Karen Eoff, Commission Secretary, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. EOFF: Mr. Udovic can come up to and make sure that I say this right. We need to have an eight week span between the deadline for the Alternate Plans, which is September 15th and, so we 7 counted eight weeks and came up with November 10th. November 10th would be the date for the deadline for us to create a Draft Plan. But, prior to that Draft Plan, we will go to the nine public hearings with the opportunity for people to testify on anything about Redistricting Plans. But after the Draft Plan is created by the Commission, there will be two more public hearings at which time the public will have a chance to comment on the Commission's Draft Plan. If we go with the November 10th date, we have to consider that as we schedule the rest of our regular meetings of the Commission, because we will need time to decide on the Draft Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: And scheduling our Regular Meetings is a different agenda item. MS. EOFF: Yes. So we need to agree on November 10th or somewhere just thereafter as our deadline for a Draft Plan. MR. MELROSE: So if we hold September 15th as the date for Submission of Alternate Plans, it gives people one week to make the adjustments for the data that we just agreed to and for additional submissions. I would just ask the Commission is that reasonable that we allow only a week that we set for the deadline for people to submit their final alternative shot at this? What is the Commission's thinking on that topic? MS. EOFF: September 15th is currently the date for the public to submit. MR. MELROSE: That's right; and we just changed it, and today is the 91h and we have just set the number today, and we are saying that six days from now, the public has six days left to submit an alternate plan with numbers we set today. CHR. SIRACUSA: And that won't be posted until tomorrow. MS. EOFF: There is some tight scheduling though from now until the end of the year that we have to consider to hold all of these public hearings and the two subsequent hearings after the Draft Plan, and to give all this information to Office of Elections. So we don't have a lot of leeway to change things. I've been studying the calendar the last couple of weeks, plus the dates have been published in the newspaper, I think four or five times already, that September 15th is the deadline for the public to submit. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does somebody want to make a motion? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Rene. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I've been working with this software fairly regularly, and a week is plenty of time to make the minor adjustments that are going to be necessary in any plan that anybody has already done. It's not going to take a half an hour to make changes that only involve a handful of people in each district. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do you want to make a motion? Mr. Middlesworth moved to adopt November 10, 2011 as the deadline for the Commission to adopt a Draft Plan. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. MR. MELROSE: Is that singular or plural? CHR. SIRACUSA: Singular. This is after we have gone out to the public and heard everybody's comments. So now I would like to vote on closing file on Communication 37. The motion to close file on COMM. 37 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. COMM. 38: SETTING THE SCHEDULE FOR REDISTRICTING MEETINGS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated September 1, 2011, requesting discussion on scheduling meetings of the Redistricting Commission through the remainder of the year. Mr. Melrose moved to close file on COMM. 3 8. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho. CHR. SIRACUSA: Karen, do you want to let us know what is available when, and then we can start filling in our calendars. MS. EOFF: We do have our October public hearing schedule, and you were discussing whether or not to hold some regular meetings during the month of October. I did sort of poll the Commissioners to see what days are best for everybody, whether mornings or afternoons, and it seems like the morning is okay with most of the Commissioners and that leaves Thursdays and Fridays as good days for most. And if we set the schedule, it doesn't mean that we can't change it down the line, we just need to set some dates; whether we continue every two weeks, that is up to you. I know that Thursdays and Fridays the Council Chambers and Kona is available. X CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's start off first with October. It seems that our first decision that we have to make is whether, in addition to the nine public hearings we are going to have in October, if we want to squeeze in at least one regular meeting, or even two regular meetings. I would like to hear how the Commissioners feel about that. That is really demanding a lot of your time, so I would like to know what your take is. MS. UGALDE: If we are to have one, it seems to me October 21" is a Friday after all of the public meetings we just had, and it might be a good time to review. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is there a location available on Friday, October 21 Sty MS. EOFF: Yes, I will go double check; but Friday the 21" is clear for the Council Chambers. CHR. SIRACUSA: How do the rest of the Commissioners feel about that? MR. CARVALHO: It's good for me too, I like the idea of meeting after all the public meetings. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is the morning okay, like today, 10:00 a.m.? MR. CARVALHO: That's excellent. CHR. SIRACUSA: Mike and Patrick how does that work for you? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It's fine for me. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: It appears so. Would we have completed with all the public hearings? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, we would have finished them the day before. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Then that is probably the best thing to do, to have our regular meeting on that day, because there is a short window to the submission on November 10, 2011. Ms. Ugalde moved to schedule a regular meeting of the Redistricting Commission on Friday, October 21, 2011 at 10:00 am. Seconded by Mr. Melrose and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have the Draft Plan deadline as November 10, 2011. We have two weeks prior to that when we can fit in another meeting if the Commission chooses to do so. 10 Karen just walked away and she's the one with the calendar. UDOVIC: The County is on furlough on Friday the 4th of November and then Veteran's Day is November 11th so there are a couple of times when County employees won't be working. CHR. SIRACUSA: What about October 28th? Too close to the previous week. MR. MELROSE: We could do it in the morning on a Thursday. I think it's important that we have one more meeting scheduled before that deadline. If we haven't figured that out yet, then we will need the time. So, if not the 4th then the 3rd or the 7th would work. MS. EOFF: Thursday, November 3rd is okay, and the following Thursday, November 10th CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we have a space available/ MS. EOFF: Yes, we do. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does 10:00 a.m. on Thursday, November 3rd work for everybody? MS. UGALDE: I'll be on Oahu. MR. KANUHA: Question; are these all in Hilo? MS. EOFF: I think they could be in either Hilo or Kona. We also have to consider the date for the two public hearings; probably in the following week, the 17th and 18th one Hilo and one Kona. MR. MELROSE: So the answer to your question is that they are available in both places and it's just the timing for the meetings. MS. EOFF: I don't think we have to decide the location today; if we can just set the dates, I can reserve the rooms and at a future meeting we can decide. MR. KANUHA: That sounds good. Mr. Melrose moved to schedule a regular meeting of the Redistricting Commission on Thursday, November 3, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 11 CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, the following week, November 10, 2011, we have a meeting scheduled already; and that is our Draft Plan deadline MR. MELROSE: And that is also at 10:00 a.m. We may be able to finish it with just one meeting, but I guess we are just booking times. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, we are booking times. If we finish way ahead of schedule we can always cancel a meeting. MS. EOFF: The two public hearings have to be held after the Draft Plan is selected. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is that tentatively scheduled for the 17th and 18th of November? MS. EOFF: Yes, and we can also look at the 21" and 22nd, but I know that is Thanksgiving week, so I'm not sure if that is good. CHR. SIRACUSA: The 21" and 22nd is a Monday and Tuesday; the 17th and 18th are a Thursday and Friday. Commissioners, which do you prefer? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: The Thursday and Friday, are we going to have it in Hilo? CHR. SIRACUSA: Thursday would be in West Hawaii and the Friday would be East Hawaii. MS. EOFF: And those would have to be in the evening, because they are public hearings. MR. MELROSE: Is that adequate notice? If we don't get a chance to submit the Plan until the 10th, that you can publicly notice and expect the community to respond by six days? MS. EOFF: It barely gives us enough time. I think the 21st and 22nd would at least give a couple more days for the newspaper. I would probably have to provide the notice and then at the last minute give them the actual map, or direct people to the web site. CHR. SIRACUSA: So the 21st and 22nd would actually give you more wiggle room. MS. EOFF: It would. CHR. SIRACUSA: How are those dates for everybody? MR. MELROSE: I would prefer the 21st be in West Hawaii and the 22nd in East Hawaii, because I have a class. Either way, I could manage to make it. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: These are the two public hearings? CHR. SIRACUSA: Does somebody want to make a motion? 12 Mr. Melrose moved to tentatively schedule two public hearings for 6:00 p.m., November 21, 2011 in West Hawaii and 6:00 p.m. November 22, 2011 in East Hawaii. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: We now have our public hearings scheduled. MR. MELROSE: Is 6:00 p.m. the appropriate time for a public hearing? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. People work until 5:00 p.m. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, I just want to let you know that Commissioner Kahui is here. CHR. SIRACUSA: Aloha, Bo; thank you for getting here. MS. EOFF: There may be one more date we need to consider. After the two public hearings, we need to reconvene and decide on a Final Plan. I checked on Wednesday, November 3 0, 2011 or Thursday, December 1, 2011; either of those two days are available. I know Pat Nakamoto will need to get our Final Plan as soon as she can in December, so I was looking at either the 3 01h of November or the 1St or December to meet again. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, are we looking at a specific time? MS. EOFF: It could be any time. CHR. SIRACUSA: I'm totally free on both days; I can make it either time on either day. How about the rest of you? MR. CARVALHO: The 301h is fine for me. MR. KANUHA: I'm fine for either day. MR. MELROSE: It's my 601h birthday on November 3 0th. Actually, either the morning on December 1St or whatever on November 30th is okay. CHR. SIRACUSA: So it appears that only one person has a preference and that is Joseph. 13 MR. CARVALHO: Either day is fine with me, but I was just thinking that the sooner we get this done and over to Elections, the better for them. CHR. SIRACUSA: That would make it Wednesday, November 3 0, 2011, one day sooner. Do I have a motion? Ms. Ugalde moved to hold a regular meeting of the Redistricting Commission on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. MS. EOFF: And as we move through these meetings, if we do need to change something and the room is available, we can do that, as long as we notice the public. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have now, I believe, have set our schedule for all of the meetings and we will all have December off, and Pat will hopefully have enough time to do what she has to do. MR. UDOVIC: Madam Chair, I think we are probably going to have to have a meeting in December, because we have to prepare the narrative. The Commission is going to have to agree on that as well; the report. I'm sure that Ms. Nakamoto and I, and Karen will be working on the report; but you are going to have to review it to make some corrections. At some point in time we will have to schedule a meeting in December with respect to that report and the Final Plan. CHR. SIRACUSA: But we can't really do it until we know that they have completed at least the first draft of the report. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Why don't we just leave this Communication on the agenda for every meeting and then we can decide as we get closer whether we need to change things. MR. UDOVIC: Yes, and my point was only that you are not going to have December off; we are going to have to do some work in December. MR. MELROSE: I think what Mike said was good; we're setting targets, but just to keep it on the agenda so that we re -visit it periodically. CHR. SIRACUSA: I think that's a good idea; Karen, will you make a note of that. So, we have basically done that. We have a motion to close file on this communication; and now we are ready to vote on it. 14 The motion to close file on COMM. 38 regarding setting the dates for Redistricting Commission meetings through the rest of the year was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. COMM. 39: PROCEDURE FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated September 1, 2011, requesting discussion on the procedure for conducting Public Hearings of the County of Hawaii Redistricting Commission. Mr. Kanuha moved to close file on COMM. 39. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter. CHR. SIRACUSA: Mike, do you want to comment? MR. UDOVIC: I just have some comments. I know that during the course of these proceedings, the Commissioners expressed the desire to be able to have a dialogue of some sort with the testifiers at the public hearing. Although that is not a common practice, I think asking questions of the individuals is an acceptable practice. But, I think you have to limit the amount of time that people, for public hearings, are permitted to testify and to make sure that you don't get involved or engage in debates with people about whether or not this is a good procedure or not. But, asking questions to clarify something would probably be an acceptable practice, because you are trying to get their input to make sure that we get the most fair and the most reasonable plan that we can, taking into consideration all of the provisions in the County Charter as well as the legislation which was involved in that. I have communicated a little bit with Rene about some of these thoughts that I've had and I did some research in other areas where they have done this and given her some suggestions. I think she intends to draw up a script, so to speak, as to what she intends to tell the member of the public; this is what we are doing, these are the Commission members, one from each district, we are all here unpaid to do this, and we are asking your input about the various plans that are included. The other thing that I would caution you is that during public hearings you shouldn't be making decisions as a Commission. Your purpose in the public hearing is to gather input, to get input from the public and not to make those decisions. That is why you scheduled regular meetings after the public hearings. With those thoughts, I can continue to work with Rene and get some suggestions. She may be able to have a document ready for your review at your next meeting on September 23, 2011. Those are my thoughts on the matter. 15 CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Would it be appropriate for us to have available the Ordinance, 11 -29, with all the criteria? Or at least something printed up that has bullet points; these are the criteria that we had to consider and that we hope you will consider when you are looking at these various plans. MR. UDOVIC: That is certainly doable. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, do any other Commission members have any thoughts or concerns about conducting these public hearings? I do like the idea of being able to ask question for clarification purposes. Certainly, the Planning Commission can ask questions of testifiers, and that is a Commission also. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Is that a question you are posing to Mr. Udovic? CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, it was just a comment that I was glad that we could ask for clarification. Because sometimes when people come up and testify, it is not too easy to figure out what they are saying, or what their point is. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: For the sake of what was just discussed here; are you planning to have a script that says they are able to use three minutes to make their presentation? I would like to ask Mr. Udovic the procedures that will be used for a public hearing. Are we governed by those under Chapter 91 or 92 of HRS? MR. UDOVIC: Yes. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Yes, to which one? MR. UDOVIC: We are governed by the public hearing laws and the administrative rules in Chapter 91 and Chapter 92. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I think that would be an important thing for Commissioners who don't realize that some of those things specifically say what can transpire there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Will Mr. Udovic make that available to Commissioners? MR. UDOVIC: Yes. CHR. SIRACUSA: My thoughts were, as you have indicated in the past, there were not that many people out there testifying, so we would be able to allow people more than three minutes, it seems to me, as long as they kept on track. MR. UDOVIC: I think you need to set rules ahead of time. You don't want to change the rules for one person and let some one else have different rules. That is the real danger, so I think you need to think about those kinds of things; if it's four minutes, or five minutes, or whatever the specific amount of time may be, I think you need to set those rules, and you 16 need to be very careful about that because you don't want anybody to say they were short changed where somebody else had an opportunity to explain themselves even more. You have to be very careful about that. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That is the position that I was getting at when I heard you mention things such as having three minutes and this, that and the other. So if that is the scenario you use here in our meetings, I thought that is what we were going to do here; take a vote and see what the process would be to get the most we can; as Mr. Udovic mentioned, to get input from the public, to gather information, and to not get into any debates with the public. There may be others, but for those points that were mentioned, I just want to make sure that the public has an opportunity to make their input. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you, I think all of us want to give the public as much opportunity as possible; maybe we should extend the time to five minutes or a little more. would be willing to look into that if Mr. Udovic says that would be allowed under those rules. MR. MELROSE: I'm going to ask specifically; is three minutes statutory? MR. UDOVIC: No. MR. MELROSE: So, Patrick, you did this before; what was your sense of the time people need to say what they needed to say in the past conversations when you did this 10 years ago? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: There were many that could bring their focus across; because you were in a specific district gathering that information. But, in this case, we many just have two places after that, and that may be a little bone of contention; that someone in the West Hawaii may have to come from Kohala and they may have a different perspective, and can't articulate that in three minutes. So that is what I'm saying. If it's reasonable for any one of us to be able to do something in three minutes; then I think that is reasonable. But I think you asked that question, was it statutory; and if it is not, then I would like to at least allow the leeway for the chairperson to make that call, using Mr. Udovic's precautions that the chairperson could allow someone a little bit more leeway. But then that leeway, we have to be sure that everybody has about the same leeway. I think that is my only concern. MR. MELROSE: Would the Commission be comfortable with the general rule of five minutes as an opportunity for the community? Is that an adequate period of time, given leeway and the like? Is that something the Commission would feel comfortable with doing? MR. UDOVIC: Someone will have to make a motion to do that when you finish this discussion. 17 Mr. Kahawaiola' a moved to allow five minutes for public testimony at the public hearings. Seconded by Mr. Middlesworth and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. MR. UDOVIC: So, with the Commissioners permission, I will work with Chair Siracusa to come up with a proposed dialogue to be used for the purposes of introducing every one of the public hearings. MR. MELROSE: Can I suggest too, I liked the Chair's suggestion of having available the Bill, and to list those things; but more than that, I would like to have the twelve or whatever items that are listed there, that guide this, printed on a sizable piece of paper and bounded to a foam core or some way that would be displayed at every one of our meetings, so we could point to it, we could ask if they are aware of it; it would be actually visible in the room. It should start with one person, one vote; which is kind of a key process. MR. UDOVIC: I don't think that is an issue; I can work with Karen on that; excellent idea. MR. MELROSE: I would like to have that handout be with us every time. MR. MELROSE: As well as the maps of last year, and past years, so that people get a sense of history and there are some visuals around to point to. CHR. SIRACUSA: Some of those maps are already made, because we had them up here on the wall at the last meeting. So that should be easy to do. MR. UDOVIC: We can probably get those mounted to make sure they are easily displayed. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, any other comments about meeting procedures? In that case, I'll take the vote to close file. The motion to close file on COMM. 39 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. W RECESS: At 11:00 a.m. the Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 11:15 p.m. ORDER OF THE DAY COMM. 40: REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF REDISTRICTING PLANS /MAPS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated September 1, 2011, requesting the Commission's review of Redistricting Plans /Maps that have been submitted, and continue the formal process for elimination of Plans. This discussion will include Plans previously received, as well as Plan_ 18 and Plan-1 9, which were received by the posting date of this agenda, September 1, 2011. Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on COMM. 40. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho. Review and Discuss Plan 18 CHR. SIRACUSA: I would like to start by looking at Plan _18 and then Plan— 19, and then if Commissioners want to go back and look at any plans, we can do that. But, let's start with these two plans that we haven't looked at yet. Is that okay with everybody? Okay, Plan_18. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Plan _18 is totally unacceptable because it puts Waimea into three districts. MR. KAHUI: I totally agree. MS. UGALDE: And it splits Volcano in half, right down the highway. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The numbers are great, but the results are terrible. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, is there any other discussion? When I was looking at this, my impression was that this shows you how you can get all the numbers right; and everything else totally wrong. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Exactly. CHR. SIRACUSA: If we are going to eliminate it, we need to state specifically why in the motion. So whoever makes the motion, please feel free to launch away. MR. MELROSE: We should reject this plan for one, there is a dis- continuity in roadways for the Puna portion; I don't know that you can get on that road. 19 CHR. SIRACUSA: You are absolutely correct. MR. MELROSE: There is a dis- continuity; unless the line runs down the road. The splitting up of the town; yes there is a dis- continuity. It doesn't allow connectivity in District 6. Further, it splits up Waimea into three districts. But I appreciate its accuracy, numbers wise. Mr. Melrose moved to reject Plan_ 18 because of the connectivity issues for District 6 and because it splits Waimea into three districts. Seconded by Mr. Middlesworth and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: None. Review and Discuss Plan 19 CHR. SIRACUSA: We now go on to Plan-19. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Rene, I did Plan _19 based on our discussion at the last meeting about things people wanted to see in terms of including communities and splitting communities and things like that. And you can see by looking at it, that if we try to do very many of those things, we end up with a terrible imbalance in numbers. The only reason I did it was to throw the idea out there that we need to - - -And this was based on Plan _10. which we all thought was pretty good, then I threw in all the changes that everybody thought they would want. This is the result. All I intended was to do that, so we could then look at the plan and think about the compromises that we are going to have to make in splitting Waimea again, if necessary, or what we are going to do about Waikoloa Village; what do we do about the piece of Hilo that is on the north side of the Wailuku River; and Rene, your concerns about the piece of Paradise Park that is West of Highway 130. Those are the kinds of things we have really got to start thinking about because we can't do it all. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. In a sense this is like the mirror image of Plan _18; because this one got all the community concerns right; but the numbers are wrong. Interestingly enough, I took all the numbers on my adding machine, and I plus and minus them out, and I got a total deviation of 0.98 %. Then, I took the highest number and the lowest number and averaged them, and I also got a deviation of 0.98 %. So, when you look at the total part, it is well within the limits, but not the individual deviations for each district. I have a feeling that we might be able to tweak this, so I would prefer that someone makes a motion to leave it in, and not eliminate it at this time. 20 Ms. Poindexter moved to keep Plan _19, work on it as a group during the meeting, and then save it with a new number. Seconded by Mr. Middlesworth and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola` a, Kahui, Kanuha, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: Commissioner Melrose. Absent: None. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does anyone want to look at any other maps that were previously submitted? Or does anyone want to work on Plan— 19 a little bit here. MR. MELROSE: Can I have a general conversation with the Commission a bit about what we are doing here now? What we are trying to do is create a series of alternatives that are reasonably viable that we will take to the public hearings. Is that right? CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. MR. MELROSE: So, it seems to me that there are some principle variances that we might want to put out for the purpose of teasing conversation. MR. UDOVIC: I think when we talk about going to public hearings that the purpose of the public hearing is to get comments from the public; not to take maps to the public for their discussion. I think they are here to provide public input about things. I think they can comment on any one of the 19 maps that have been submitted. You may have decided at some point in time, that you may not want to consider them, but the public has the right to tell you that this is what we are talking about. MR. MELROSE: I understand that, but we will have draft maps on the table for the hearings, so I understand that they can talk about any number of things; but what we are talking about right now are what draft maps do we take out to the public hearings. MR. UDOVIC: I think every map that was submitted should be taken. MR. MELROSE: No, we have actually rejected some. They are welcome to have conversation on them, but what we blow up; and what we put on the wall are the choices that we have made to help focus the conversation. Throwing out 20 different varieties isn't necessarily going to help the public conversation. MR. UDOVIC: I'm just saying that they have the right to comment on any one of them. MR. MELROSE: There is no question about that. The question that I am asking is that what we are expecting to do is to put up maps on the wall, from four to six of them, I don't know how 21 many we think we are going to do, but I'm assuming it is a relatively small number. In it, are some that actually work, and that have a couple of different alternatives, and play them out differently. MR. UDOVIC: People would expect that; but I'm just saying that if they want to comment on things, than that is their choice at the public hearings. MR. MELROSE: Sure, we are not limiting what they can speak to. They can speak to any map in the process. Just as an example, Puna has 45,000 votes; that is enough for two seats. There is no question to me that there are two seats in the Puna District. There are also about 4,800 or so votes that have to go someplace else. So, they can either go to Ka`u or they can go to Hilo. That being said, there are two ways to split Puna. That is an upper and a lower, or an east and a west. We do have an option. I think we do have an upper and a lower option in Plan _2 and an east and a west option in Plan _10. So to me that is a way to go out with two maps, and we can talk about Puna in two different ways. CHR. SIRACUSA: The problem with east and west Puna is that you don't have road access for some of the communities on the west side of Highway 130. They are basically cul -de -sac communities and they can't get out anywhere without leaving a council district. MR. MELROSE: If the line goes down the middle of the road, they can drive one side of the road and get there. CHR. SIRACUSA: But actually the side of the road they would be driving on would be the wrong side of the road. MR. MELROSE: Okay, but do you get my point? My point is that we are looking for two options; these are two things that are fair. In either case, I don't know that you can get a number that doesn't cut portions of Hawaiian Paradise Park. You can't stay below the number in either of those scenarios and hold Hawaiian Paradise Park together as a whole. Anyways, my point is that we should think strategically about the maps so that we are presenting different concepts in the maps as well as trying to get whole pictures that work. CHR. SIRACUSA: It is interesting that in the fastest growing areas we are supposed to try to give the lower numbers to account for future growth. Hawaiian Paradise Park is growing by leaps and bounds. The other day I went down to see a friend, with the blue hair there, and she lives all the way at the bottom of Hawaiian Paradise Park. As I was driving down Maku`u, I passed about five or six homes under construction, just on that one road going down into the subdivision, and there are several other main roads that go down into the subdivision and, of course, all of the cross streets. So. I have no idea of how fast it is building out, but I do suspect that it will, by the next time we go through this exercise, Hawaiian Paradise Park will probably be a district unto itself. This is just a point of information for everybody. MR. MELROSE: Hawaiian Paradise Park grew from 7,000 people in 2000 to 11,000 in 2010. CHR. SIRACUSA: Big jump. 22 MR. MELROSE: A couple of things. There are numbering issues in these that I think we should be consistent with, whatever we take out. I know when I do a map, I end up starting with a different number and they come out a little weird. But it seems to me that whatever we take out should be consistently numbered. So even if we have a plan that is numbered as it is today, we should feel free to go in and re- number the district number and continue kind of a clockwise movement. So, for instance, Plan _18, although we just rejected it, goes 1, 2, 4, 3, 5, 6. So, anyways, we need to be clockwise, and consistent with the numbering of the districts. CHR. SIRACUSA: But that can be done at the very end; it is just a minor thing. MR. MELROSE: It is, but when we take it out to the public for talk, if we can adjust them before we go out to the public hearing; it is a confusion that we may not want to introduce; because the numbering is irrelevant, but it can be confusing. CHR. SIRACUSA: I couldn't figure out how to do that, but if someone else can, then that would be great. MR. MELROSE: Plan_10 does the same thing. It goes 1, 2, 4, 5, 3. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does anyone have anything else they want to discuss under this agenda item? If not, then I will take the vote on closing file. MR. MELROSE: We need to get on with this. I don't think we can just stop talking about this conversation. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We need to start talking about more about what we want to do with thi s stuff. weeks? Are we just going to walk away from this now, and not do anything for another two CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, I was waiting for someone to say something. What do you want to do? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I think we should take one of the maps, and move some lines around, and talk about it; see what happens if you do this, what happens if you do that. Shyla is sitting there with the computer and the maps, if somebody wants to direct her, she can make changes as you guys talk about it. I can't do it from here very well. We can look on a computer here and see one of these maps, but I think it is time for us to say, okay if we are going to have to split Waimea, how are we going to split it? If we are going to have to split Waikoloa Village, how are we going to split it? We can't wait until after we have gone out and talked to everybody and then do it in that last 10 days. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does somebody want to start directing Shyla? MS. POINDEXTER: Okay, I'll start. On District 1, on Plan _19, if you take some of Council District 3 and move it into District 1; let's see what we can move into that to make those numbers balance out better. 23 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Let me interject here. I drew this one to include everything below the Wailuku River in District 3. If you come down, you are going to have to come down to Waianuenue and the Saddle Road. MS. POINDEXTER: And I would prefer seeing that, versus pulling Waimea on that side. MR. MELROSE: I have a hard time with the notion that somehow -- -We've taken about 2,000 votes out of - -this was District 2 before - -and added it already to District 1. We have taken lands from all the way out of Papaikou and included it into District 1. That seems reasonable to me, although even when they did the Community Development Plan (CDP) they didn't include the whole district to the river. They went out as far as Papaikou and assumed that there was more community connectivity to that portion of town, to the north portion of the river. So if you don't hold the Wailuku River; you are doing so to keep the Waimea voters who send their kids to Honoka` a from being part of that district. MS. POINDEXTER: And I still could argue the point that the Waimea people access everything in Kamuela versus Honoka` a. Just because of the school districts - - -I could argue that Waikoloa goes to Kealakehe, so we should move Waikoloa into Kona. So we're talking school districts there, but when you look at the communities of interest, the CDP planning, you have all of the Lakeland area and those people because they utilize parks and activities there in Waimea itself; I just thought keeping them together because of the Community Development Planning and communities of interest. MR. CARVALHO: If I can add to what Valerie is saying; I met with some of the Waimea people, a couple of guys from Waikoloa and Puako. I think there is the services problem too, between the two districts. It's how well you are going to be represented in your district. The people who live in Waimea, out in Lakeland, they feel they don't get any representation from the Hamakua, District 1. Their perception is that the representative thinks they are in Waimea; because they always were in Waimea until 10 years ago. They still have their post office and services come from Waimea, not from Hamakua. Then you have Puako, which has changed radically in the 10 to 15 years, where you don't have as many local people down there any more. So, they look like they are more with the hotels, the Mauna Lani, which almost adjoins Puako. Then you go to Waikoloa, and Waikoloa is how old, thirty years, like a lot of the places in Kona just came about. But Waikoloa, they think you can split Waikoloa; part into Kona and part into District 9, using Paniolo Avenue. I have to do a little bit more research, but I'm getting a much better feel now. If I'm going to be splitting Waikoloa, I know where to split it. Puako, I would like to see still in Kohala, but if it's not possible, they look like they should belong with the hotels. Waimea; definitely bring back the people from Lakeland. It's easier for me to work with Plan _10. I did some modifications already. I didn't bring it with me, but I did some modifications. I know that side pretty well; between 8, 9, and 1, but when you move down to Volcano and Puna side, I depend on you guys; I don't know anything about it. CHR. SIRACUSA: And vice versa. 24 MS. POINDEXTER: I agree with Joe because of what he said about the community in Lakeland and their accessing the Post Office and facilities there in Waimea. There is a distance between Waimea and Honoka` a. When I say I would like to see more of District 3 into District 1 and giving Waimea back, is because you have a closer proximity of communities there versus the distance in Waimea and what is happening there. So, I agree with Joe and I would like to see Waimea kept as a large community. MR. MELROSE: For the sake of the example, 750 votes low. This is a district that has to be on or above, given its growth rate. So, I think you need to take out another 700 or maybe 800 votes from that district in order to make that closer. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Which district are you talking about? MR. MELROSE: I'm talking about District 1. Shyla is working on District 1. You see where she got as far over -- -This district has to get closer to a zero variance, given its growth rate. So, can you take some more? If you are going to pull all of Waimea over, how much more do you take out to make that really work? You have to take out of District 3; that's the only way you can do that. So you could take it out of - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If you go to Waianuenue, you pick up 750 or so. MR. MELROSE: You have to worry about the connectivity issue here. If you are coming up Waianuenue, if you take that whole area there, the DeSilva school district - -- that's the number. Now District 2 goes into Puna. Does it pick up votes in Puna? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No. MR. MELROSE: So now, Keaau is part of District 2, and Shower Drive has votes on the north side. It will make for a funny boundary, but if you are trying to retain all of it -- -Down at the bottom of that street, can you see houses on the makai side of Shower Drive? I don't see any, so that is the right boundary. Now, we need to adjust District 5 to bring those numbers down. They actually should be lower than the average; Districts 4 and 5. Pull out a minute, Shyla, so we can see the whole of Puna. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Jeff, how far south have you gone with District I? MR. MELROSE: In this one here, it goes up Kaumana to Ainakou. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Okay. MR. MELROSE: So Puna has two votes, and Kea` au is connected to Hilo. We have to reduce the number of votes in both Districts 4 and 5 by 3,000 votes. So where are those 3,000 votes going to come from? Where are they going to go? That's the Volcano problem. 25 CHR. SIRACUSA: But you are still running into that problem using Highway 130 as an east /west divider because of all of the communities, that don't show up on this zooming level, that are land locked and can't get into their district. MR. MELROSE: Can we go down Highway 130 and down into Kalapana. I'm not sure about the connectivity issue that Rene was speaking to. CHR. SIRACUSA: You have to zoom in closer. MR. MELROSE: Technically, the lines can follow the road, and you don't lose connectivity. CHR. SIRACUSA: Go up a little Shyla. That is Black Sands Subdivision right there. MR. MELROSE: That would be one that I would take out of District 5 and put into District 4; because District 5 needs to dump some votes. Was there a reason, Mike, why you left that one there by itself. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: No, I put it there because of that discussion about the connectivity stuff. I think it ought to be in the other district. MR. MELROSE: In District 5 or District 4; in orange or gray? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: In orange; in District 4. MR. MELROSE: Shyla, can you put that in District 4. CHR. SIRACUSA: Go up Highway 130 a little higher. This has the bypass for the dividing line. MR. MELROSE: That's right; but it separates Pahoa from Nanawale and Leilani and the surrounding community that probably has the most impact on it. My gut feeling is the way to do Puna is upper and lower; and you follow the Kea` au ahupua' a boundary where all of the subdivisions are. You go up to Ainaloa and let Ainaloa stay in District 4. But all that is going to mean you have got to take votes out of Hawaiian Paradise Park. CHR. SIRACUSA: Hawaiian Paradise Park is a big problem there because it is so huge and it is so dense; it throws all of the other numbers off. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: It is not dense, it is just the biggest place around; density is not the problem, they have 25,000 people in there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Actually, it is getting denser and denser all the time. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I don't disagree with that, but what I am saying is that for the sake of this exercise, we have got to have 20,462 people in some place that has 25,000 people. So, it cannot stand alone. It has got to be broken someplace, and we have to find out where to break it. 26 MR. MELROSE: You have fewer options when you go along Highway 130. But just for the sake of this example, take out 1,000 votes out of Hawaiian Paradise Park. Put them in District 2; that's it. Actually you have to take out the two HPP on the mauka side of the road because you have a road disconnectivity issue. The piece of HPP that goes south of Highway 130, they should go into District 4. So technically, you could put back a couple of votes back into that district at the moment. You can take a block or so and put it in District 5. You have to take it down Shower, right there where it says 22nd Avenue. I'm just trying to set District 5 with the right number. We are aiming for 20, 400 votes in District 5. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We should be aiming for 19,500 in District 5. If 20,500 is the optimum number and we are trying to take into account growth, then we can go 1,000 under that and stay within the 10 %. MR. MELROSE: So just for the sake of discussion, are you okay with this; 19,500 in District 5? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: For me, it's fine. We have got to make compromises someplace. MR. MELROSE: So now we have an overload in District 2; they have to drop 1,000 votes and it has no way to go except - -- MR. MIDDLESWORTH: They can go back to District 1. MR. MELROSE: Do you want to lead this process? Go ahead. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If you go back to the north side and throw those votes that are north of the river, that are along the river; throw some of those back into District 1. The ones that are now in District 1, they can go back into District 1; in this plan they are not. CHR. SIRACUSA: Take them out of District 2 and put them into District 1. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Exactly; put them back to where they are in the existing district plan. There are votes north of the Wailuku River in District 1 along the ocean. MR. MELROSE: Are you talking about going out to Honoli'i? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We could, yes. Go over to the right side, along the ocean, up to Wainaku and up that way. Those are both currently in District 1 so what we would be doing is leaving them in District 1. MR. MELROSE: I don't get your thinking here; it doesn't make sense to me. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You said you wanted to reduce District 2. The way to reduce District 2 is to put some of those votes back in District 1. MR. MELROSE: Either that or you put it into the upper Puna district and expand the role of that district in Puna. That's the logical way. 27 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Yes, you can do that too. CHR. SIRACUSA: It's a real puzzle. The way it's starting to look is that Puna will lose both Kea`au and Volcano. It`s not just sacrificing one or the other any more; it's losing both ends. MR. MELROSE: I think that is the question. You are going to have to lose Volcano, but you can set this line in an upper and lower Puna scenario. Follow the Puna boundary and make District 4 go all the way down to the shoreline of Puna and District 5 take up the lower Puna area. That way Kea` au stays in Puna and all of Puna stays together, except for Volcano; and it does penetrate quite a distance down there because it is so lightly populated. Puna is going to get its two votes; the question is what happens to the 4,000 votes excess that they carry in population. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Exactly. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That is the - -- MR. MELROSE: So, they are going to shed it in two directions; there are only two options. One is that it sheds in a Hilo direction, and it shares those votes with Hilo, or it goes in the Ka`u direction, or both to some degree. CHR. SIRACUSA: Another way is to just disregard those predictions for future growth and don't have the lowest possible numbers for the Puna district. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Excuse me, Madam Chair, are you comfortable, being from Puna, saying that we don't need to make the adjustments for growth and that you would like to get the 1,000 votes back there. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right now, the way the numbers are looking, it looks like we might have to make that decision. No. I'm not comfortable with it, but there are a lot of things in my life I am not comfortable with. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I just need to know your train of thought so that we don't -- -I've been quiet during this whole thing, because I don't particularly care where District 4 went, but I'm prepared to look at what is going to happen. What I'm looking at, at this particular point in time, District 3 has always been the Hilo district that had part of Puna. What I'm trying to say is it would be now that a smaller part of Hilo could now be in Puna. Or a smaller part of Puna be in the bigger part of Hilo. Do you follow my train of thought? Now, Hilo, District 3, the majority of votes are in Hilo with some in Puna. The reverse can happen, where the majority of votes are in Puna, with parts of District 3 in Hilo. That's basically how I see it off of Plan _10. But, we will discuss that when we move to the other map. That's why I'm asking if you are comfortable with that? I think Mike has made that one compromise by making room for growth. But if you are saying that we should just stay with numbers - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: I think the adjustments for growth are one of the least important of the many criteria that we have to try to balance. W MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Well said, ma'am. CHR. SIRACUSA: I must admit that for Puna I would prefer a north /south split rather than an east /west one because of the road continuity thing. MR. MELROSE: Shyla, can you play with that just for a second. Take all that is currently below Ainaloa and put it into District 5. Now you are right about at the right number. You still have to shed some votes from District 2 and shed 2,000 from District 4. I would push back to the Wailuku River. For the sake of this alternative, if we are going to keep going on with this, I think you have to move more votes out of District 2 into Puna and then out of District 4 into Ka`u. That leaves District 2 a little shy, but we can take care of that later. Why don't we go back to District 4 and see how far we have to come in. When you think of Volcano, is `Ohi`a Estates across the street. MS. UGALDE: The greater Volcano area is defined from Golf Course subdivision to Akatsuka's is considered the greater Volcano area. MR. MELROSE: So, if you have to come in, you would want to keep those together. Go back up to Volcano and add in Kulani. Can you add in that whole block? Bo and Dru, what are your thoughts on that little strand. MR. KANUHA: It is definitely different from what it was before. I wanted more conversations about it in the public. It definitely goes against the ahupua' a. MR. MELROSE: _If you took Hmlualoa, Honalo, Kealakekua and turn that into District 7, then you would have that mauka /mauai link. MR. KAHUI: After we finish this exercise, can we look at Council District 8 and compare it with Plan _10. I know that we spent some time on map 10 and it got closer to some of the sentiments and compaction issues that we discussed earlier. For the purpose of this exercise, maybe we would finish off with District 8 and then revisit Plan_10. and then call it a day. MR. CARVALHO: Can we finish with District 9 first and then look at Plan-1 0? MR. KAHUI: Looking at District 8, and again, I think we have looked at how Puako is really part of District 9, and looking at our deviations, it kind of hits our target. I did want to find out from Joe what his sentiments are about that intrusion into that district; of District 8 into District 9? MR. CARVALHO: I would like to see Puako stay in the 91h District. It doesn't look good on the map, but I think there are like 700 people there. MR. KAHUI: What we could do is, there is that dividing roadway; maybe if we could ask that we just kind of see where the numbers go if we move that into District 9 for now; and how do we pick up numbers for District 8 to make the medium. 29 MS. POINDEXTER: I agree that we should take Puako. MR. CARVALHO: I think Puako should be in District 9. I think we can move further up than Puako, but let's hold that for a while. MR. KAHUI: I think, looking at the two constituents from Kona over here, and knowing that we are still within the median. MR. CARVALHO: Yours is pretty low; 18,000. MR. KAHUI: We were at 18,800 previous to that. Looking at the overall mean, would that number meet that standard? MR. CARVALHO: No, you are .7% under. MR. MELROSE: What I would do is come back and there is a tight way to do it in the middle of Kailua town. It is kind of the Kuakini area where there are some residential units. Go right into the middle of Kailua town. It's a little odd, but you see where Kuakini comes up and connects with Hualalai Road, that long triangle there. MR. KANUHA: Yes, more of District 7 needs to go into District 8. MR. MELROSE: Right; and it could actually be Nani Kailua. It's very populated in there. MR. KANUHA: Well, I need to shed about 1,000. MR. MELROSE: Which, Nani Kailua has more than that, I think. MR. KAHUI: Could we just make that adjustment now? MR. KANUHA: Put all of Nani Kailua inside District 8. MR. MELROSE: If you get Nani Kailua, you have to take the whole area to Hualalai Road though. Now, you are 1,000 low; which, you are a growing district. MR. KAHUI: We're okay with that, I think. MR. MELROSE: Your deviation is a little over, you are at 5.58 %. MR. KAHUI: It was that much of a change? Take some back, Dru. MR. MELROSE: Dru needs another, not quite 1,000. But he needs a couple votes on his side. MR. KAHUI: Go ahead, take some back. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It's hard to do, that's the thing. 30 MR. KANUHA: Maybe go in towards town. MR. MELROSE: You know, the last undo; just look at that because Hoene Street has houses on the makai side; and there really is no population from there over to Hualalai Road; maybe just a couple at the top off of Hinalole. MR. KAHUI: How does the number look? We cannot see it on this side. MR. MELROSE: Can you open that option on your computer? MR. KAHUI: Yes, but we're not following the same plan. We are trying to catch up with you every time you make a change, but it's hard. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is there a time delay? MR. KAHUI: Yes, the speed is slow over here. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Kona computer and Hilo computer are at different speeds. MR. MELROSE: There is an interface there that we can work on. But we don't have to solve that right now. Let's go up to District 9. MR. CARVALHO: Yes, let's go up to District 9. Go over to Lakeland. Before I shed any, I'm going to take some. I'll shed from somewhere else. Go up to Puananu; that whole area. If we have to go to Waikoloa, we will go to Waikoloa. Let's go to Waikoloa. Can you zoom some more? See Paniolo, just to the right. Now move everything from the left side into District 8. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Can you ask Shyla to go up in the "create" menu and click on the "display lines" box? I think we could see it a whole lot better. CHR. SIRACUSA: You can ask her yourself. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Okay. Now we can see a little bit better over here. MR. KAHUI: Yes, that's great. MR. CARVALHO: Okay, now go back and we take back Puako; move Puako back to District 9. MS. POINDEXTER: Can we save this map, and then create another map that is this; and then move Waikoloa back in and Hamakua and take back Lakeland area, so that when the public sees the maps they can comment on either or. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Good idea. MS. POINDEXTER: So, if we could save this map as Plan_21. 31 MR. CARVALHO: You know, Val, when I did mine, the numbers were way better than this. I should have brought it in. I'm going to submit it. But, Volcano and all that side is pretty messed up. You guys got to straighten it up. MS. POINDEXTER: But what I'm saying is we could work on that; but just save this map as map 21 and submit the other one then. MR. CARVALHO: And we can work on the other one. MS. POINDEXTER: Or, do you want to try on this one now, putting Waikoloa back in, and then taking Lakeland back into Hamakua? That's just another option; just to have another map. CHR. SIRACUSA: District 8 needs to shed some numbers; probably into District 7. MR. KANUHA: But, I'm going to have to start taking from Kailua town, and that's a big population base. MR. MELROSE: What about going into the upper lands, the watershed lands? MR. KANUHA: Okay, go to the - -- -Zoom into the border of District 6 and 7. There really isn't any population in all of those upper lands. For watershed value, those could all go into - - -See those four blocks right above Kealakekua? One, two, three, four; those can go into District 7 as well. That's good for the south boundary. The north boundary, I'm definitely going to have to take some from town. MR. KAHUI: Where is that north boundary; is it right on Palani Road? We could, maybe from Palani, determine where we could give back to you, Dru, those needed numbers. MR. KANUHA: Yes, the boundary could be Palani Road. MR. KAHUI: I think that would help; if we could just zoom in closer and see if, in fact, it helps with your numbers. MR. KANUHA: It's still going to be a big population with Nani Kailua and Liliuokalani subdivision. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Shyla, hit the display lines again, so we can see the roads better. MR. KANUHA: Just put all of Nani Kailua into my district. That's how it is right now; but we still would have to shed people in District 8? MR. KAHUI: How does that number work for you? Our problem is we cannot see the numbers or the deviation. MR. KANUHA: Can you show the district statistics? 32 MR. KAHUI: Can you pull it down a little? It's got to be zoomed up on our screen. But just for our notice, does the number work? MR. KANUHA: For District 7 it is a -2% deviation, so that's good. MR. MELROSE: And you are a growing district, so that makes sense. MR. KANUHA: District 8 is at + 10.4% deviation. MR. CARVALHO: We can take some back from Waikoloa. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair and the rest of the Commissioners, I hope of you think that by my silence, that I really agree with everything that is going on, or that I have nothing to say. At this particular point in time, I have nothing to say, until everybody gets what they are looking at and then we can move over to Hilo; which I don't think will be until next week. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you for the clarification, Patrick. MR. CARVALHO: The other thing is, getting population from Hilo side into Hamakua. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: That's why I would like to revisit Plan_10 after we get everybody kind of configured on Plan— 19. MR. KANUHA: District 7 is fine for now. MR. KAHUI: I'm good with District 8. MR. MELROSE: District 8, you have to drop at least 5 %. Given that is a growing region, you probably ought to drop 2,000 votes. MR. CARVALHO: We could take that from Waikoloa; because Waikoloa is up there. MR. KAHUI: Again, we didn't want to split your community up there, and include it in our council district, so with that said, you can make that move now, save this map, and for the purpose of Commissioner Kahawaiola' a we can move on. MR. MELROSE: Go back to District 9 and take out all of the Waikoloa vote. All of Waikoloa is 6, 300 votes; not votes, population. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: People. MR. CARVALHO: This is a good talking point; we can stop right here. MR. MELROSE: For the sake of argument, go back into Hilo and see how far you have got to go to make the difference. 33 MS. POINDEXTER: I would say, do that first. MR. MELROSE: You can see it, but I think that there are far more people affected by that change than by the Lakeland change. I don't think that is an appropriate trade off. But for the sake of the argument, go ahead and go back into Hilo and pick up whatever it takes to make them. MR. KANUHA: If we are going to leave the map like how it is, we are going to have to take from the Waimea side; but that wouldn't work for you. MR. CARVALHO: I would take from Waikoloa, I'll move some of Waikoloa. MR. MELROSE: But you can't; because-- - MR. CARVALHO: But we can. We're not going to take the whole Waikoloa; we took quite a bit of Waikoloa at that time; we took a section that took 1,000 people and we don't need to do that. MR. MELROSE: But you need to shed. MR. CARVALHO: Yes, I know. MR. MELROSE: You have two ways to shed. CHR. SIRACUSA: Into District 8 and into District 1. MR. CARVALHO: Don't worry, we got it. We will move back to Plan_10. That is one of the alternatives, right? Plan_10 modified. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Make sure you save this one. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Please save this. MR. CARVALHO: I've got to be out of here by 1:00 p.m. MS. POINDEXTER: So, just save this and let's move on. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, we are saving this. Do we want to finish this? We had the motion to close file so we could do all of this; do we want to vote on it now? MR. MELROSE: Bo, you wanted to look at Plan_10, right? MR. KAHUI: That is correct. 34 MR. MELROSE: So why don't we save this as Plan _21, and post it as Plan _21; we can reconsider it at our next meeting. I mean save it as Plan_22, thank you Shyla. Save it as Plan-22 and then we can come back to it at our next meeting. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: And then be sure to discuss Plan-1 0. MR. KANUHA: I'm good with District 7 on this one, Plan_10. MR. KAHUI: District 8 is okay. CHR. SIRACUSA: Puna is not happy. MR. MELROSE: Bo, what did you want to do with this one? MR. KAHUI: Frankly, I think that - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I wanted to take a look at this and see if this is compatible with the Kona district, Kohala, are we kind of in the ball park, also, with Plan— 10? MR. MELROSE: Where is the boundary between District 8 and 9? Where is Waikoloa in that? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It is in District 9. And Puako is in District 8. MR. MELROSE: It is a small thing, but it shows up here is it will make for an ugly district. You see that little loop below Waikoloa? That has the public housing on it, so there is not a lot of votes there, but ultimately if you are going to keep Waikoloa together, then you should include that one and the big block beside it. But that's not enough, because the housing is on the other side of the road. So you have to take that too; you have to be inclusive. So there are 1,000 votes that still need to be shed out. What else did you want to see, Pat? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I wanted to find out if Plan _10 is almost as compatible with what was discussed for those people in the Kona, Kohala side of the island, because the tweaking now, the push has got to come down south; not from that side, but from the east side. CHR. SIRACUSA: I agree. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Are the numbers compatible to what was discussed in Plan _19`? Are the numbers compatible with Districts 9, 8 and 7`? And if you did it here with what it is now, how would it push the numbers to the other side? MR. CARVALHO: District 8 is a little higher, but if you move Puako back into District 9, it would be okay, I think. MR. KANUHA: Part of District 8 could go into District 7; and also, part of District 7, at the southern boundary of District 8, could go into District 8. Right now, the numbers are okay to move around in District 7 and 8. 35 MR. MELROSE: I think those two districts are actually almost perfect from a growth perspective. So, I wouldn't mess with them at the moment. MR. KAHAWAI OLA `A: Now, I would like to go to the Hilo side. That's what I wanted to just do. Plan _19 and Plan_10 keeps those guys right where they wanted to be. Right into Hilo, if we are looking at how District 2, 3, and 4 are configured right now, because District _3 on Plan— 10, this is where I was saying Puna has the biggest part of the votes now; and part of Hilo. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let the record show that Joe Carvalho is leaving now. MR. MELROSE: I would say that downtown shouldn't be separated from the rest of urban Hilo, and should be in either one of those districts. We are going to have to put some 900 votes back over the river. At least the downtown area should come into District 4 for now. That is where most of it is right now. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: That was one of the problems with this map. MR. MELROSE: So try to move the downtown area into District 4. Put the red into District 4, up to the river. Now go mauka. If you go up the river, if you go up Waianuenue, do we have connectivity? If you go up, mauka, you have Kaumana. Kaumana Village should be in the Hilo district. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Are you talking about Kaumana City up there? MR. MELROSE: Yes, that is Kaumana City up there. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: They have only that one road to get in anyway. MR. MELROSE: And we are disconnected from it? I guess you could come up Waianuenue and go to Akalea. It's a big chunk, but it's unpopulated. So now you have about what I think the number is going to be. We could balance it off between District 2 and District 3 or 4, the Keaukaha District. But Hamakua is low and it shouldn't be. CHR. SIRACUSA: Shyla, will you zoom in by Pahoa? Right there between town and the bypass; pull some of that into District 3. MR. MELROSE: This one does split Hawaiian Paradise Park. CHR. SIRACUSA: In Puna mauai, everyone goes up to Pahoa for everything, and that's the way the communities of interest are. MR. UDOVIC: Just a point of order; some of the staff members wanted to know if you are going to take a short break for lunch and continue your discussion, or if you are going to adjourn? 36 CHR. SIRACUSA: That's a good question. I'm ready for that one too. Do we want to take a break, or do we want to adjourn? Adjourn, okay. Shyla will you save what we have right there? MR. UDOVIC: Do you want her to save it as Plan_10, or a different map? CHR. SIRACUSA: It has to be saved as a different number now that we made some changes. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Save it as a new map. CHR. SIRACUSA: Would it be Plan-23? Okay. Let's take a vote to close file on Comm. 40. The motion to close file on COMM. 40 regarding the review and discussion of submitted plans was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Carvalho. UNFINISHED BUSINESS ANNOUNCEMENTS ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, at 1:05 p.m., Ms. Ugalde moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Mr. Melrose and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Kahawaiola`a, Kahui, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Carvalho. CHR. SIRACUSA: Motion carries. Thank you very much Commissioners, we have done a lot of work today The next meeting will be in Kona at 10:00 a.m. on Friday, September 23, 2011. 37 Respectfully Submitted, Karen Eoff, Secretary Approved on September 23, 2011: Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Hawaii County Redistricting Commission WEOO