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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN RDC 2011-08-242011 HAWAII COUNTY REDISTRICTING COMMISSION 6th Session Wednesday, August 24, 2011 County Council Chambers 25 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii 96720 CALL TO ORDER: CHR. SIRACUSA: I'm calling the sixth session of the Hawaii County Redistricting Commission to order. Today is Wednesday, August 24, 2011, and we are in the Council Chambers in Hilo. We will start of with the roll call. ATTENDANCE: Present: Mr. Joseph Carvalho, Commissioner Mr. Patrick Kahawaiola`a, Commissioner Mr. Dru Mamo Kanuha, Commissioner Mr. Jeffrey Melrose, Commissioner Mr. Mike Middlesworth, Commissioner Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Ms. Valerie Poindexter, Commissioner Ms. Linda Ugalde, Commissioner Absent: Mr. Craig "Bo" Kahui, Commissioner Also Present: Kyle Chang, Deputy Corporation Counsel Jamae K. K. Kawauchi, County Clerk Cori Saiki, Elections Assistant Shyla, Senior Elections Clerk Elton Nakagawa, Elections Clerk Nora Avenue, Administrative Assist to Clerk Maile David, Legislative Specialist Manu Hanano, Council Aide in Waimea Leslie "Lah" Robinson, Council Aide in Kona Karen Eoff, Secretary STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we have any? I see somebody who is about to fill out a form. I'll give you a minute. The first testifier is Scott Stoddard, testifying on Communication 35, in support. SCOTT STODDARD (At this time Scott Stoddard came forward to address members of the Commission.) SCOTT STODDARD: Good afternoon, my name is Scott Stoddard, and on behalf or Friends of Puna's Future, I would like to thank the Commission for the hard work they are doing and offer the following comments. Many of the public plans submitted thus far, divide Puna into two distinct districts, with Highway 130 as the dividing line. While we are in favor of this approach, the dividing line, thus drawn, divides Hawaiian Paradise Park, which is a distinct community. Altering the existing proposals to include the mauka portion of Hawaiian Paradise Park in the makai Highway 130 District; however it is numbered, would not be difficult, and we urge the Committee to adopt this change when reviewing the final plans. Secondly, we have noticed that several of the submitted plans have 20% deviations instead of the required maximum 10 %. We suspect this is due to a misunderstanding among members of the public as to what a 10% deviation is, to allow a maximum of 5% over and 5% under, the idealized population; as I'm sure you all understand is the 10% total deviation. We suggest that the public instructions be updated to make this more clear. Finally, we have noticed that many of the plans that attempt to create two districts for Puna, exclude either Volcano Village or Kea`au; both of which are unquestionably a part of the community of Puna. We have recently submitted a plan that includes Volcano and Keaau in the same district, respects the boundaries of Hawaiian Paradise Park, and Maku`u Hawaiian Homelands, includes all of the Hilo Hawaiian Homelands in District 4, keeps Hilo's north boundary at the Wailoa River, and creates a single District 7 for the greater part of Kailua Kona. We did not notice this plan among the publicly available plans as of this morning, however, but would urge the Committee to consider that plan. Thank you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. The next testifier is Margaret Wille, and she has also submitted written testimony. You have to keep it to three minutes. Did you want to add to what you gave us in the written form, or do you just want to read off of your written testimony? MARGARET WILLE (At this time Margaret Wille came forward to address members of the Commission.) MARGARET WILLE: There are really two communications, and one I would like to make a brief comment on, and then after that if I could have three minutes on the redistricting maps. CHR. SIRACUSA: It's a total of three minutes, so I would suggest that if there is something that is not in your written testimony, because that will be part of the record, that you use your three minutes to address that; use your three minutes that way, it would be more productive for you. K MARGARET WILLE: Thank you. I want to start with just a question for the Committee and whether you all have already made a motion and voted to pay for the extractions and gotten that information to the Esri or some other entity, so that those numbers can be obtained. I don't understand why this hasn't been done by now. I haven't seen anything or noted in your minutes where there was a vote; maybe there has been, in order for that payment to be under the procurement minimum. If that hasn't been done, I certainly hope you do it today, and make sure all of those "i's" are dotted. I leave that to you, if there is any procedural issue that hasn't been taken care of, so that the extraction can be properly done. That is under (c) of page two that I submitted. In terms of evaluating the proposed districts, just the key things that I felt should be respected are identity of the village centers, which reinforces what Mr. Stoddard as well as previous testifiers have said. I explained what those centers would be in District 9. So I put three key things; to make sure you are preserving the village centers and not just going by some road down the center of a community such as say, Mamalahoa right through Waimea where KTA is on one side and Foodland is on the other; to respect the communities that are working together. Second, would be the contiguity of access roads; Hawi and Kapa`au should not be over in Hamakua or some place that they have to drive through another district. Third, to try and respect the Community Development Plan (CDP) Community `Ghana. For District 9, that would be trying to keep Waikoloa, Waimea, Kawaihae and Puako together and along with North Kohala. Some of the plans put Hawi, or all of North Kohala and moved that over to Hamakua. Last, I'll just say that I went through all of the seventeen plans, and I analyzed them based on those criteria. In terms of Kohala, or what is currently District 9, Plan 2 and Plan 7 are completely consistent with that criteria. Plan number 7, if you do the extraction, you probably would have to take out a few more. Then which plans agree with criteria one and two, and then I looked at the ones that were not consistent. Looking at them, please pay attention to those. CHR. SIRACUSA: We cannot answer your questions during this part of the meeting, but some of those issues that you raised are on the agenda further on, and if you hang around you will hear what is happening. Are there any other testifiers? Next on the agenda is Approval of Minutes. APPROVAL OF MINUTES CHR. SIRACUSA: Do I have a motion to approve the minutes? Mr. Melrose moved to approve the minutes of the July 28, 2011 Hawaii County Redistricting Commission meeting. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 3 COMMUNICATIONS COMM. 32: UPDATE ON STATUS OF ESRI SOFTWARE, AND HELP RESOURCES From Commission Chair, Rene Siracusa, dated August 17, 2011, regarding update on status of Esri software and help resources. CHR. SIRACUSA: This includes 32. 1, which is a memo from County Clerk Jamae Kawauchi. Do you want to come up? Also, at this time I will ask for a motion to close file. Mr. Middlesworth moved to close file on COMM. 32. Seconded by Mr. Melrose. JAMAE K. K. KAWAUCHI (At this time Jamae K. Kawauchi, County Clerk, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. KAWAUCHI: Jamae Kawauchi, County Clerk. I spoke with Royce Jones, the Hawaii Pacific Islands Regional Manager for Esri, and I understand that the population extractions that you have requested to be performed, will be performed in two steps. The final completion date for both steps would be September 6, 2011. The first step, which is to extract numbers by block is going to be completed by August 29, 2011, which is next week, Monday. The second step would be to load the numbers into the software. They had hoped to complete this part of the process by September 2, 2011, but no later than September 6, 2001. I asked if that was a firm date, and Mr. Jones indicated, "Yes." So that is all the information that I have concerning the extractions, at this point. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do any Commissioners have any questions? Jeff. MR. MELROSE: I would say, that addresses Ms. Wille's concern. That's what she raised, was that we now have dates for that, specifically. It has been done, Margaret, so unfortunately it still bumps up against our dates a bit, so we might have to consider what that means for us. I guess maybe at our next meeting, we should decide what to do with that, when we actually get the numbers; whether we have to make any kind of adjustment to our delivery date. CHR. SIRACUSA: Actually, to some extent, we are being proactive about it by looking at the next agenda item, which is the Future Growth Projections, and trying to keep the Hilo numbers a little bit on the high side until that happens; so that once we extract the students, then it will come down to line up just right, hopefully, or close to right. We are also, talking about letting the people who have submitted plans already, be aware that there will be some changes in the numbers, and give them a heads up so if they want to jump the gun and be prepared to make some adjustments in their submissions, they can do so. MS. KAWAUCHI: I recall that at your last meeting, the Commissioners did vote to inform any one who had submitted a plan that once the extractions are completed, they had an additional opportunity to make changes, but your deadline for submission of plans is still September 15, 2011. If Esri is able to stay with their timeline, then you could be informing C! people as early as September 6, 2011 or as soon thereafter as possible, which gives people about nine days to change their plans and resubmit, if they want to. But, I recall that you made that motion and it was passed, so I believe Karen Eoff was going to go ahead and notify people. CHR. SIRACUSA: So we can do a motion now to have Elections Office give a heads up to those people who have submitted plans already, and let them know that that will be coming down the pike, so they will be prepared? MS. KAWAUCHL• If you choose to go ahead and provide that instruction let us know. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does it need to be a motion? MS. KAWAUCHI: No, not necessarily, you can just give us that instruction, and we will take care of that for you. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is there anything else on this issue that any Commissioners want to comment on? In that case we have a motion to close file, so let's vote on it. The motion to close file on COMM. 32 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. COMM. 33: FUTURE GROWTH PROJECTIONS From Commission Chair Rene Siracusa, dated August 17, 2011, regarding response to Commissioner's request for growth projections for County of Hawaii. COMM. 33.1: From Public Works Director Warren Lee, dated August 15, 2011, transmitting a response to Michael Udovic's request for information on growth projections. Mr. Melrose moved to close file on COMM. 29. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we have any more projections? Did we get a response from Planning or from the Building Department? Karen is shaking her head, no, we have not. So we have no additional data on that. Does any body want to say anything about this before we vote? MR. KANUHA: Well, I know this is what Bo bought up at the last meeting, and he is not here right now to keep talking about what he brought up about the projections. I know this was his concern. 61 CHR. SIRACUSA: Mike. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It seems to me that based on the growth over the past 10 years, we can pretty much project forward. Jeff, of course, has considerable experience in the field, and he can help us make a decision. But we do have the 10% deviation business to work with, so that once we decide which districts are the ones that are slow growing, we can make them bigger by whatever percentage we decide and make the faster growing districts smaller. It's not brain surgery, it is pretty simple math; to say one district is going to be 4% big and this district is going to be 4% low. CHR. SIRACUSA: Jeff. MR. MELROSE: I think it's possible to do that. The challenge is going to be, by the nature of the Ordinance we were handed by the Council, variation is what matters as far as that Ordinance is concerned with kind of in the bottom line. I think we need to take a logical progression of actions, so that we are not going to get subject to that nit pick when we are trying to keep communities together and accommodate growth. As we have seen from some of the plans that have already been submitted, it's not hard to get under a 1 % variation in a plan, but that does not generate the best plan. I think we need to consider that Puna needs to be quantified lower than the average, and maybe the Kona and North Kohala seats, depending on where those boundaries fall, should be quantified lower, and that the Hilo seat, at least at this point because we still have University votes in it, needs to be higher. But those two areas particularly should be seen as reduced. Setting a number is not the intelligent way to deal with this, it's finding a way to accommodate it in the context of census blocks. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I go back to what I have said several times. There are conflicting provisions in the Ordinance. One says that we have to take into account growth, the other one says that we have to have the numbers match. I have asked Mike about it, and we have discussed this before. There is no penalty clause in the Ordinance. It's up to us to decide and have good, sound reasons for what we do. We can go one way, or the other; or we can try to accommodate both. But, whatever we do, there is nothing in the Ordinance that penalizes us for what we do. Somebody could take us to court; they took the last Redistricting Commission to court. That's the chance we are going to run no matter what we do. So, I think we just need to plow ahead, and do the best we can, in our view, and see what happens. CHR. SIRACUSA: Thank you. Any more comments? In that case, let's vote. The motion to file COMM. 33, regarding Future Growth Projections was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. M COMM. 34: CONVENING A REDISTRICTING COMMISSION MEETING IN KONA From Commission Secretary, Karen Eoff, dated August 17, 2011, in response to request from Commissioners to investigate possible dates and costs associated with convening a regular Commission meeting at the West Hawaii Civic Center in Kona. COMM. 34.1: From Out of the Sea Media providing an estimate regarding technical support for a meeting at the West Hawaii Civic Center. Ms. Poindexter moved to close file on COMM. 34. Seconded by Mr. Melrose. CHR. SIRACUSA: Jeff Haun from Out of the Sea Media is here, so I'm going to ask him to come up in case any of the Commissioners want to ask him a question. Thank you. Karen. MS. EOFF: So you have the communication from Jeff, and he can explain that if you have any questions, but before we go to that; I brought the calendar for September, and there aren't that many open dates for the Civic Center. The ones that we can consider would be - -the most ideal would be -- September 22nd or September 23rd, Thursday or Friday following a set of Council and Committee meetings in Kona. So Jeff will be there; he will have all the equipment set up for those two Council meeting dates. So if we follow that, either on Thursday the 22nd or Friday the 23rd we would be in good shape. That would also be the last meeting that we have before going to public hearings. I am told by Pat Nakamoto that following our last meeting before public hearings, we need some time to let the Department of Information Technology produce some of the large maps of the plans that we decide to take out. We would like to bring 24" x 36" maps with us, and they need a little bit of time to do that. I think that eliminates any chance of having a meeting in the last week of September. So we need to do it in that second to the last week. If we do that, then, two weeks before that brings us to the second week of September and the available date for our meeting would be to consider is Friday the 9th. We cannot meet on Thursday the 8th because County Council has a meeting that day in here. So, looking at this calendar, the 9th of September and the 22nd and 23rd would be the best. CHR. SIRACUSA: But September 9, 2011, we are not looking at Kona. MS. EOFF: Right, September 9, 2011, we would be meeting in Hilo. CHR. SIRACUSA: We are looking at the 22nd or the 23rd of September for Kona. Commissioners, how does that work with your schedules and do you have any questions for Karen? MR. CARVALHO: For my schedule, September 9, 2011 is bad for me. We happen to have a 50th year class reunion starting that day. And, the 23rd I'll be in Honolulu. So, the 22nd would be best for me. VA CHR. SIRACUSA: Has everyone had a chance to look at their calendars? Does the 22nd work for everybody? MR. MELROSE: It doesn't work for me. I still teach on Tuesday and Thursday. MS. UGALDE: Friday, the 23rd is best for me, but it's not good for Joe. MR. MELROSE: The 23rd is better for me too. MR. KANUHA: I'm fine with either date. MS. EOFF: People can participate from Hilo, if you choose not to go to Kona. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I was going to ask you that, because I would be available if I could do it from Hilo. So, would the room be available? MS. EOFF: Yes, we would be videoconferencing to Hilo and Waimea, so Commissioners can also be present in those locations. MR. CARVALHO: Okay, I can do the 22nd from Waimea. CHR. SIRACUSA: If I understand it correctly, Jeff, you teach your class until 3:30 p.m. So you wouldn't be able to attend until after class. MR. KANUHA: The question I have, is if - - -I wanted to have a meeting in Kona. I thought it would be good to go over to Kona, but if not everybody can go to Kona, and have it in Hilo; I don't know, what do you guys think. Is anybody else going to Kona, if we do have this meeting in Kona? It would be nice if we could have everybody. CHR. SIRACUSA: It is very nice to have everybody sitting together. MS. EOFF: We can do it in a different month, too, if September doesn't work; we can do a regular meeting in Kona at a different time. CHR. SIRACUSA: I'm sorry, I didn't hear that Karen. MS. EOFF: If it doesn't work out for September, for us to have a regular meeting at the West Hawaii Civic Center, we could do that in a different month. I'm just looking at September because Dru asked. But if that is not good for everybody, we could wait on the Kona meeting. CHR. SIRACUSA: There is another advantage to doing it and that is that Jeff is going to be setting up the day before and we can piggy back on to his services, right? MS. EOFF: Yes, but every month, that is the same each month. That happens every month, whenever we meet in Kona; at least once a month. E:3 MR. MELROSE: Just so we get Jeff into this conversation, my sense that was a fair proposal, and if we need it, because if we need you to set up, I think that it's a good thing. I don't know if anybody had a different thought on that, but I don't see any reason why that is not a reasonable cost to undertake. I really support Dru's effort to get us to Kona, as many of us as can. That's just part of our kuleana, so paying for it is not an issue. MS. EOFF: I see an opportunity in October, after the County Council meets on Wednesday the 19th, we have a public hearing scheduled for Yano Hall which is in South Kona. We could meet at the West Hawaii Civic Center that day, prior to our public hearing, if we thought we needed a regular meeting. I know you weren't sure whether we would actually have regular meetings during the public hearing cycles, but I don't think we decided for sure one way or the other. MR. MELROSE: Can we just look at one date at a time? Look at the 9th, which is the next meeting; is that the best opportunity for us? I'm assuming we should stay on a two week schedule. I feel uncomfortable; if we are going to go out, we have to be really ready for the go out. So, we need a meeting in two weeks, and if that's the best time, I'd say, let's meet on September 9, 2011. MS. EOFF: September 9, 2011 would have to be a meeting here in Hilo. We would originate the meeting from Hilo, with videoconferencing to the other sites. That's the only day that week we can do a meeting. MR. MELROSE: Then I would say we should say yes to September 9, 2011. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we need a motion to have that next meeting on the 9th? So having decided that, let's look at the September 22nd and 23rd for the Kona meeting. Let's take a poll. MS. EOFF: We need to see which day is best and whether it is in Hilo or Kona. MR. KANUHA: I would prefer Kona, at least once. MR. MELROSE: Yes, before the public hearings. CHR. SIRACUSA: Dru, are you willing to Chair the meeting? MR. KANUHA: I'm the Vice Chair, I'm always willing to Chair. CHR. SIRACUSA: Everybody who can make the 22nd, raise their hand. If you can make the 23rd in Kona, raise your hand. It looks like the 23rd has it. MS. UGALDE: I can make a meeting on September 23, 2011; I can only get as far as Hilo in time for the meeting, though. MS. EOFF: It looks like September 23, 2011 is the day most people can make it. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we have anything more on that? we MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I have a point of information. On September 9, 2011, our next meeting; ,I'll be in Kona. CHR. SIRACUSA: Would you be able to participate via videoconference? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: From Kona. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have a motion to close file, we need to vote on it. The motion to close file on COMM 34, regarding convening a meeting in Kona was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. RECESS: At 2:05 p.m. the Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 2:20 p.m. ORDER OF THE DAY COMM. 35: REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF REDISTRICTING PLANS /MAPS From Commission Chair Ren6 Siracusa, dated August 16, 2011, requesting the Commission's review of submitted Redistricting Plans, and begin the process for elimination of Plans. COMM. 35.1: From County Clerk Jamae K. K. Kawauchi, dated August 16, 2011, transmitting Plans 1 through 5, and Plan 17, created by Elections Division at the request of the Redistricting Commission. COMM. 35.2: From Commission Chair Ren6 Siracusa, dated August 16, 2011, requesting further review o previously submitted Plans 6 through 11. COMM. 35.3: From Commission Chair Ren6 Siracusa, dated August 16, 2011, transmitting Plans 12 through 16. Mr. Middlesworth moved to close file on COMM. 35 and all related communications. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde `[1l CHR. SIRACUSA: As we discuss this, it would help Karen a lot if Commissioners identify themselves when they start speaking so that she attributes the right remarks to the right people. And also what I want to suggest - -and let's see how you guys feel about this - -that we should start looking at eliminating plans. Otherwise we will end up at the final hour with a whole bunch of plans and we'll be here until 3:00 a.m. So we can start that, the way the agenda is written, we can start looking at that. And what I would like to suggest to the Commissioners is that we begin with the most egregious violations of the rules. If you make a motion to eliminate a plan, please state specifically, for the record, the reasons why you are suggesting that plan be eliminated. Does that seem like -- -Does that way to go appeal to everyone, or does anyone have a better idea? MR. KANUHA: Yes, I have no problem with doing that. When we start eliminating plans, do we strike - - -If I see a problem with one of the plans, like if I went through the online check list, and it says, sorry this plan does not meet requirements because one little piece of one block is in another district; it is discontiguous. Does that strike the whole plan? CHR. SIRACUSA: I don't think it should have to, because that is easily correctable. I'm talking about really egregious; like when two districts are totally split, and plunked in the middle of another district, for example. There is no easy fix there without re -doing the entire plan from scratch. So, I expect the Commissioners will use their discretion there. But, certainly, on each motion there would be a discussion; and if we think you are nit - picking then we could say so. I will now open up the floor. MR. MELROSE: Can I make a suggestion? I want to make a motion that sets the context for some of this. I want to test this to see whether the Commissioners agree. I think there is a simple logic, and I think we need to start there and work down; as opposed to working from the specifics up. Mr. Melrose moved that the Commission adopt as a goal to create a plan that has two seats that are within the Puna District, two seats that are within the Hilo, general urban core district, two seats that are within the urban core of the Kona district, and then a seat for each Ka`u, Kohala, and Hamakua Districts. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde. MR. MELROSE: That is kind of the way the population lays out. I don't think there is any magic to that. But if we all agree to that, then it kind of moves us on. We don't have people suggesting that we somehow have an agenda that we are trying to hide. Is that a reasonable process? MR. KANUHA: Can you read that motion again? MR. MELROSE: The motion is that we are aimed at getting a plan that has two seats that are contained within the Judicial District of Puna, two seats that are contained within the urban core 11 of the Hilo District, two seats within the urban area of the Kona District - -that may go into South Kona, it will depend - -then one in the southern portion, one in the north and one in Hamakua. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, discussion. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, I have a question of Commissioner Melrose. The urban core you speak of Hilo, and I think I raised that at the last meeting. Is there another kind of core in Hilo, or is Hilo all urban? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: The problem with that is we don't have cities. So, your definition of Hilo might be one thing, and someone else's definition is another. So what would you have in mind as being Hilo? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I've lived there all my life. If I was to use the zip code, Hilo, 96720, everything in 96720 would be Hilo. That is all I know about Hilo. If I went to Papaikou, it was in Hilo. If I went outside to Kona, that wasn't Hilo. Are we doing a redistricting based on where people live or - - -My only reason is that I am hearing two urban districts; so am I to assume that the rest of the districts are rural? MR. MELROSE: That wasn't my intention. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: But I heard Hilo as mentioned two urban district cores. MR. MELROSE: That's true, because pieces of Waidkea are in agriculture and if you are talking about a state land use district, and the pieces of Panaewa that are in the agricultural district. I'm just trying to get to the context that north of the Puna boundary, and headed up towards South Hilo, there is really a South Hilo boundary; there are two in South Hilo. There are two districts in South Hilo that go from the Puna boundary, north, could go up to Papaikou, could go to the river; but there are enough votes in there to have two seats. So, that's all I'm looking for. It's not an urban or a rural call. CHR. SIRACUSA: So, you are using density. MR. MELROSE: I'm using general areas of population density; that's a better term. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Thank you for that explanation. MR. MELROSE: I got you. CHR. SIRACUSA: So, we have a motion and a second. MR. KANUHA: I have a discussion as well about the urban centers of Kona. I wouldn't understand what the urban core of Kona would be as well. To say that there is going to be exactly two that will split the urban center of Kona; maybe I'm not understanding that part of it. If we have to make a motion to say that the maps that we should not include. `K CHR. SIRACUSA: Do you want Jeff to clarify his motion? MR. KANUHA: Yes, please. MR. MELROSE: I was trying to make it simple; but I agree, I think we need to be as specific as we can with that. Again, it's not an urban core, because you have the mauka Kona lands and as you move up the coast. It's kind of from the north Kona, south Kona boundary, somewhere in there. I don't want to predict the boundary specifically because the census tracts might not give us that specifically. But, I want to say that there are two core Kona seats, two core Hilo seats, two core Puna seats, and that's about the extent of it. If I get into more descriptions then it just starts to raise more questions. So why don't I just amend the motion. Does that help? CHR. SIRACUSA: Does anybody have anything else to say, or do we vote on it? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I don't really have any qualms about it, but to answer Dru's question a little bit; the more that I start working on drawing these maps, you can draw a very small geographic district on the Kona side. And you can draw one very small geographic district on this side. Then, it's a matter of how do you adjust the boundaries north and south; where is the southern boundary of what you would consider the business district, core district? And I think that is where we are going to run into problems. What do we use for the north/south boundaries of those, essentially urban, because that is where there are a lot of people in a small area. CHR. SIRACUSA: This is not what we are deciding as part of this motion. We are just looking in broad, general terms, acknowledging that there has been significant growth and density increase in the Kailua area and the same for the Puna areas. That density increase is sufficient to warrant two districts; two Council districts each in those general areas. Is that a fair rephrasing of your motion? MR. MELROSE: I just go back to the motion which is two in the core Hilo area, two in the core Kona area and two in the Puna District and that is about as general as I can be and I think we need to be general at this point in time. It kind of takes the issue off the table that somehow we are trying to take a vote away from someplace, and I don't think that is even remotely the issue. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I wanted to finish up the discussion stage on that motion before the question is called. Will that bind us at looking at proposals of maps that do not have two Hilo, two Puna, two Kona and the rest - - -We are just going to have to say that this is two Council Districts. Are we then, just based on the motion, if there is a map with three Hilo, or three Kona districts, that those maps are automatically thrown aside, because we are now bound through a motion to look at those that only have two for Hilo, two for Kona and two for Puna? That is my question. CHR. SIRACUSA: Jeff, do you want to respond to that? MR. MELROSE: The purpose of the motion was to try and help us create some discernment on the topic. The answer to your question is, yes. The answer to your question is that if we get somebody that has only one seat in Puna, that wouldn't be consistent with what we are trying to 13 accomplish. Just as if there were three seats in Hilo, or three seats in another place, that's not the goal either. We are looking for a level playing field, so I was just trying to get out a bit and hoping we could just to a simple agreement on that. But if not, I just want us to have this conversation because I think it is one of the underlying conversations. We are going to need to find some discernment, and so I was just trying to structure some very general discernment. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Then, for the sake of our discussion, as we move forward, that it not be in the form of a motion. Because a motion does bind all of us that this is the only way you can look at a map that is being presented. So let's look at what is there. I think we looked at several maps last meeting, and quickly a consensus developed. But it would be a map that would be no longer considered because it had more than two districts here, and districts there. I need to be sure that we don't bind ourselves and the playing field moves just through a motion that we are now bound by those two things. I think our job is to look at a map. The 15th of September is the deadline for alternatives; a map that needs to be brought from the public. That may not be the map that is going to be presented in the final analysis. This Commission may come up with its own map. I want that to be crystal clear, so we all understand that maps are going to be drawn and submitted and we have got to make that decision. Some of the best maps the public may present to us, we may tweak it, we may just agree. That individual may have just presented that will resolve our problem. So I just don't want to be bound by a motion. By agreement, yes, I think it is a possibility that we all can work towards that goal. That's my only concern. MS. POINDEXTER: I'm now starting to agree with Patrick, because if you look back at how people are struggling because of the deviations and what is put in the Charter about how much we can increase and decrease; it has somewhat strapped your hands. Maybe not necessarily when you go to law; but somebody will challenge that. But I think it's the same situation here where we may be locking our hands and not being able to move because of that restriction if we put that motion in. So right now I am agreeing with Patrick. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We can always change our minds. We are not writing laws that area going to be enforced by anybody, this is just a general idea of what we are talking about. If down the road somebody comes up with an absolutely super map that only has one district in Hilo, we can always change our minds and go with that. So I think we are spinning our wheels on this. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: We are spinning our wheels if we do it in the form of a motion. The motion was defeated by the following tie vote: Ayes: Commissioners Melrose, Middlesworth, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola'a, Kanuha and Poindexter. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. MR. MELROSE: I want to withdraw the motion and we'll deal with it as a general direction and agreement. 14 CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's start out looking at those maps that we didn't look at last time; the ones that the Elections Office drew up. That was Plan 1 through 5 and Plan 17. Let's take them one at a time, so we don't go jumping around. Review and Discuss Plan] CHR. SIRACUSA: Does anybody want to start the ball rolling here? MS. UGALDE: I can only speak with what I am most knowledgeable on, and that is Volcano, that is part of District 6; and with many of them, very few people have tackled them. Volcano is part of the Puna Development Plan. I feel very strongly that Volcano needs to be part of one or the two Puna Districts. There have been some maps submitted that accomplish that with just a little tiny pick up for part of the golf course subdivision. I don't know about the other districts, and I can't testify to that, but because this does not take into consideration Volcano, the greater Volcano area being part of the Puna District; it is still part of Ka`u and South Kona. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does any body else have any input on map number one. MR. CARVALHO: Could we zoom into Waimea area? One of the reasons why I would be against this map is because historically Waimea is in North Kohala District. This shows it as being in District I and that is also a split, down the line; it looks like the Mountain Road. My preference would be Waimea would be in Kohala. That's all. MR. MELROSE: I have a couple of quick comments on this one. I notice it does a variety of things. It splits the Kaloko Maua subdivision in Kona. Only half of the subdivision is in there. That would be a community of interest I think. I think the Puna district ends up with just one distinct Puna vote, which was part of the problem last time. Hawaiian Paradise Park is split; I don't know if we can avoid doing that, given the numbers; it is just an observation. Much of the Hamakua District is back in Hilo town. It's not a bad thing, but I just think it takes some of Hamakua away too. Anyways, my sense is that it is a good try; I would thank them for their effort, and suggest we not move forward with number one. CHR. SIRACUSA: Any one else? MR. MELROSE: We actually need a motion to reject. Ms. Ugalde moved to reject Plan -1. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha. MR. CARVALHO: The Elections Maps; I thought they were going to be samples for us to work from. Do we need to vote on these? CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we need Corporation Counsel to come up and advise us on that? `N7 MR. MELROSE: That section of that Bill refers to the need to take an action on any Alternate Plan, and these are not technically Alternate Plans, so you are right, Joe. MR. CARVALHO: Well, we need to vote, so let's just vote and get it over with. CHR. SIRACUSA: If we didn't vote to reject them, they would be up to go out for Public Hearing, so it seems like we do have to make a decision. MS. POINDEXTER: Jamae is here, so I wonder if we should just get a point of clarification? JAMAE KAWAUCHI (At this time Jamae Kawauchi, County Clerk, came forward to address members of the Commission.) MS. KAWAUCHI: How can I help you? MR. MELROSE: The question is, we know by the Bill that we need to specifically act on any Alternate Plan, make a specific action and a justification. Since these were ones presented for us for discussion purposes from the Elections Office, do we need to take similar action on each plan that we choose not to move forward with? MS. KAWAUCHI: You might want to also consult with your attorney; I believe Kyle Chang is here from Corporation Counsel's office, because you are asking for an interpretation of a County Code provision. I will share with you, Commissioner Melrose, that yes, the way I read the Code, I do see that for Alternate Plans there is a phrase that is used that is called, "just cause." So, you would have to at least provide an explanation on decision making concerning the plans. You may want to adopt a process that is uniform for all the plans. But, the Code itself, just the plain reading of it, I don't see anything that talks about a process of elimination for plans prepared at your direction, by the Elections Office. CHR. SIRACUSA: We somehow have to have a process to eliminate any Elections Office Plans that we choose. MS. KAWAUCHI: You would probably want to have some process outlined for yourselves; but again, I would defer to your Corporation Counsel on the legality of it. From an organizational standpoint, having a process in place that covers all the plans will probably help you. That way, you don't have too many different types of decision - making for different kinds of plans that are drafted. Do you want a legal opinion? KYLE CHANG (At this time Kyle Chang came forward to address members of the Commission.) KYLE CHANG: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and Commissioners, Kyle Chang, Deputy Corporation Counsel. MR. MELROSE: Do you understand the question we are asking you? 16 KYLE CHANG: Unfortunately, I don't have the Code provision in front of me. As Ms. Kawauchi says, if the provision states for a "just cause," then I would concur with her that you should have a process outlined for how you are going to be evaluating. MR. KANUHA: I have a question. Why don't you have that in the first place, the rules, in front of you? KYLE CHANG: I'm sorry, I am just substituting in for Mr. Udovic today; so I apologize. MR. MELROSE: Let me just make a suggestion. Thank you, Kyle. My suggestion is that we establish a program that is consistent across the board, and that every plan that we see, we simply have a quick motion to accept or continue the conversation on each one; and we set that up now. Mr. Melrose moved the Commission establish a process to accept or reject, for just cause, all proposed Redistricting Plans by reviewing each Plan and then taking a vote. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: Good, we have a process. Thank you, very much. MR. MELROSE: There is a motion on Plan —I already. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, there is a motion and a second to eliminate PlanI for the various reasons stated by Commissioners Ugalde, Kanuha, Carvalho and Melrose _ Then we went into discussion. The motion to eliminate Plan-1 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan —2 CHR. SIRACUSA: Plan number 2. `VA MS. UGALDE: Madam Chair, ditto. Same comment as last one. Volcano is still in Ka`u and South rather than in Puna, where it belongs. CHR. SIRACUSA: Are there any other comments? MR. MELROSE: I think we have to be careful of narrowing down our interests to specific go or no goes on very narrow issues. I mean, I appreciate your point, Linda, but in fact, it is a very difficult numerical issue to accomplish that, and not do other things as well. So I would say, this one, for other reasons. There is one Puna district, and then the other one is basically a combination Hilo /Waiakea district, which I don't think we want to do. But if Joe said, no Waimea, and you said no Volcano, we would be stuck in the middle and we'd be doing this for a long time. We could all pick out our lines in the sand, but I'm not sure that every time it gets crossed is the reason to reject it. CHR. SIRACUSA: Absolutely; there are quite a few maps that do have Volcano in an upper Puna district, and two Puna districts. So it's not like it can't be done. MR. MELROSE: I would add, too, that I think one of our goals here is not to choose the right map. We are in the alternative generation phase of this process, so what we are looking to do is present a series of alternatives that the public can comment on that may have - - -We are not trying to pick the "right" one, we're trying to come up with some alternatives we can take out. I would concur with - - -I have similar concerns with Plan _2. My concerns have to do with the treatment of the Puna district, primarily. That would be my concern with this one. CHR. SIRACUSA: Any one else? MR. KANUHA: Can you zoom into the Kona area? We'll go to Districts 7 and 8 by the ocean; by Kailua. Can you zoom in a little bit more? I don't have a problem with this; we can move on with further conversation. It's not something I am totally going to deny. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I would like to hear your comments about the Kona side. I would like to go a little bit further with what Jeff said. I have spent maybe 30 or 35 hours at my computer drawing maps; taking these maps, trying to modify them, trying to draw different maps. We are never going to satisfy everybody. The numbers simply do not work to make some of the things that people want happen. I think what we need to do - - -And we, eventually, have to agree upon a map and say this is the map that we are putting out there to be the map. What we need to do now is what we are doing; discuss the things that we think are important in this process. It's important that Linda thinks that Volcano should be in Puna. I think it's important for us, on this side of the island, particularly, to hear what you have to say about how the Kona side splits. You are looking at these boundaries; they are essentially the same kind of boundaries we talked about the last time; Keauhou being the north boundary of one district, for example. Like I said, I would like to hear your feelings about this. MR. KANUHA: Issues I had were the same that I've always had with splitting up communities of interest. Yes, there are a lot of communities of interest in Kona that consider themselves Kona. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I guess my concern is, if you are going to draw a north /south line along one of the roads, which one would you draw it on? MR. KANUHA: Do you mean between District 7 and 8, or District 6 and 7? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If you wanted to make a small district in Kona, where would you draw the line, or would you just carry it all the way up to the mountain. Because that makes a difference when you start trying to - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Did you mean north/south or did you mean east /west? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: North/south. MR. CARVALHO: What I heard Dru say, was that this boundary was not particularly egregious to him and we don't need to make a big issue about it. MR. KANUHA: Both the north and south boundary wasn't an egregious line at all. CHR. SIRACUSA: Does any body else want to make comments about their areas? MR. CARVALHO: Can we take a look at the central part; central north Kohala. Essentially, I think this is what we have currently; it's okay, I can work with this, but I'll probably make changes. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Isn't the current boundary east of there? MS. POINDEXTER: The current boundary is at White Road, and now it pushes it over a little bit more, I think. MR. CARVALHO: It's a workable plan to me. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, so we don't consider this one to have any major egregious elements. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: All of these plans submitted, I think on August 9th we've had plans submitted prior; a consensus was among almost all the commissioners was that Plan _10, out of all the other plans that were submitted, was a plan that almost everybody could live with, with the boundaries that were there. It was Plan 10 from our last meeting. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right now, we are looking at Plans 1 through 5. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Ma'am, I am just referring to it, I don't want you to look at Plan _10, I'm saying we are referring to Plan _10. That's one of the reasons I kept looking up with the new plans that have been submitted. If you took Plan _10, and super impose whatever the Plans are now that have been brought in, we are not far off from anything. So, I'm just saying that we just need to make sure. There were some 12 Plans submitted on August 9th and Plan— 10 seemed like 19 the Plan we all walked away from here feeling good about. I'm just saying that some of the plans that have been submitted to us by the Elections Office at our direction seem pretty close; but we just haven't found the one. So if we pick Plan _10, then Plan— 10 may be the starting point that we need to look at. I agree with Mike; we are going to have to take a plan that we all agree with out to the people. CHR. SIRACUSA: That's true, however, I did not like Plan 10, and I believe that Linda did not like it either because of the whole thing about where Volcano is. MR. MELROSE: We need to take action on one plan at a time. We agreed that we would take them off one at a time; either hold on to them or move them on; take action on every plan. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If you look at this plan, Plan _2, on your computer screen, look at the Hilo area. When you talked earlier about all the Hawaiians Homes issues; this takes everything south from the airport almost, and throws it in with Puna. What is your feeling about that? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: As was expressed at the last meeting, I don't think that Hilo should be in any part of Puna, and the reason I gave for that was there is an undercurrent of Railroad Avenue, which is Hawaiian Homelands, being used, or being planned to use by PMAR. That has been expressed to us that is the bypass road they want to alleviate traffic out of Puna. That would be a detriment to us, the Native Hawaiians that live along Railroad Avenue. And we would be out voted; trust me, if any part of Puna gets into Hilo that way, if we go over into Puna. That is one of the reasons that the boundaries were as such; Puna district started at Shipman and we came around from Hilo One, which was the Wailuku, all the way over to Papa'i, the bay that is there. So I would be against that part of Hilo being in Puna, because it historically, has never been there. MR. MELROSE: Can I suggest that we hold on to Map 2. Map 2 seems to do what you are talking about, from the Hawaiian Homes, and Railroad Avenue. So, I just suggest that we hold on it; we don't have to make a decision on it at the moment. CHR. SIRACUSA: Then we need a motion on Plan-2, before moving on to Plan_3; namely that we hold on to it, and revisit it later. Mr. Melrose moved to hold on to Plan _2 and revisit it later. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 20 Review and Discuss Plan —3 CHR. SIRACUSA: Now we move on to Plan-3 and take a look at that. Zoom in please. Okay, this one has the same problem as far as Volcano goes. Let's see what else. MS. POINDEXTER: Can we go into the Waimea area, the end of District 1, getting into District 9. I just want to see what road it goes to. MR. MELROSE: I also saw that on the Puna side, it takes the Hilo District, the Keaukaha/ Panaewa area and picks up a piece of Hawaiian Paradise Park. It is not clear to me in the back side of Waiakea; I'm thinking the back corner of Waiakea has a discontinuity here that would keep you from being able to drive within the district without driving out and driving back. I think that would get us into trouble from a continuity perspective. CHR. SIRACUSA: And then Hawaiian Paradise Park being split; that is a problem also. Also, Paradise Park and Maku`u Hawaiian Homelands both go above Highway 130. They go mauka of Highway 130 a little bit and they are divided off here in this map. MR. KANUHA: Can you go back to the Kona side? I think this might be the current map we have now; it may be what we have currently. When you look at Nani Kailua, Hoene Street; the south side of Hoene Street, one side of that subdivision is in a different district. That's what I had a problem with what it is currently. It splits up that one side of the community of homes. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: There are going to be a lot of problems like that because of the way the census blocks are drawn. You get one side of the street, and then when you try to get the other side of the street, you get 400 people; because the block goes on down. CHR. SIRACUSA: But we still have to eliminate as much of that as possible. MR. MELROSE: I don't think there is anything particularly unique about this one that would say we should hold on to it as an alternative; and there are some technical issues such as dis- continuity in the Waiakea District, the crossing over of the Hilo /Puna District with Hawaiian Paradise Park, and a kind of deep encroachment of the Waimea community that would suggest to me that we simply put this one on the side and move on. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do you want to just put it on the side as opposed to eliminating it? MR. MELROSE: No, I would eliminate it. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I liked this one better than Plan-2 for the very same kind of reasons. You don't want to split up Hawaiian Paradise Park; I don't want to split up Hawaiian Homes. MR. CARVALHO: Going back to that these are the maps from the Elections Division; and not to disparage them, but it seems like they were just getting the numbers right. They look really like just samples, except for Plan— 17. Plan 17 is very bold, but if you look at these other maps, 21 they just look like they are putting the numbers in the right place; just to get the right numbers, so I think we are really wasting our time spending too much time on these, let's just move on. CHR. SIRACUSA: We can try and pick up the pace. Mr. Melrose moved to eliminate Plan 3. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan —4 CHR. SIRACUSA: Plan number 4 puts a big chunk of Puna in Hilo. MR. MELROSE: It puts a bunch of Hilo in Puna. CHR. SIRACUSA: Which ever way you want to look at it. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I like Ka`u. CHR. SIRACUSA: And Volcano is in Ka`u. And there are some strange outlines on the Kona side. Waimea is in Hamakua. MS. POINDEXTER: Can we look at between District 1 and District 9 again? Where is that split? It splits the town. MR. MELROSE: Simply on the basis of the configuration around Hilo and Puna, I would move on. The splitting of Waimea and the configuration of Puna /Hilo coastline seems a little bit of an unnatural act. Mr. Melrose moved to eliminate Plan _4 Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 22 Review and Discuss Plan —5 CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's look at Plan 5. MS. POINDEXTER: Again, can we go up by the Kohala area. I think it is bringing Kohala people down. Mr. Carvalho moved to eliminate Plan 5. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan—] 7 CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's look at Plan-17. This plan does have Volcano in a Puna district, and it has two Puna districts. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: But the numbers don't work very well in Plan _17, but it is an excellent map to start with, I can tell you that with having set and gone round and round with these maps. MR. MELROSE: This is the one that puts Honoka'a in what was District 9, it renumbered it. This is a Waimea, Hawi, Honoka'a District. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Does it split Waikoloa? MR. MELROSE: No it doesn't. CHR. SIRACUSA: Waikoloa and Puako are in the same district there. MR. KANUHA: Can you scroll down to District 8; I can see all three districts from there. CHR. SIRACUSA: I do want to mention that if we do decide to make changes to a plan, if we find a plan is pretty close except it needs a little bit of tweaking here and there, then we would need to make a motion to save that plan with a new number. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We would submit it as a new map. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, exactly. 23 MR. MELROSE: This is an interesting concept one. I don't know as an alternative, what the people in Kohala and Honoka'a think about being in that. MR. CARVALHO: I would imagine that Honoka'a and Hawi people really do not get along. MS. POINDEXTER: Excuse me, I'm from Honoka'a, the Hamakua area and we've worked with the Hawi area. I remember at one time when we were connected and involved together; taking out of Waimea and hopping over to the Kohala Mountains. We did get along because we were both rural communities that had the demise of sugar. MR. CARVALHO: Okay, I stand corrected. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's look at Hilo. Where is the Wailuku River. MR. MELROSE: It goes up to Kaumana. So everything north of Kaumana is going to be in the District 2 seat. It creates kind of a South Hilo seat that gets up as far as Pauillo. Actually I think it gets up as far as Paauhau. But it takes the bulk of that Honoka'a vote out and it splits out Ahualoa into District 1 and, then Kalopa and Pauillo is in District 2. MS. POINDEXTER: I don't like this map. I was making a point about Kohala and Honoka'a sharing some similarities, but I don't like how it splits up Hamakua with crossing over Waimea to be into Kohala. To me I don't like this map. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's go down a little bit and see Puna, what happened there. Part of the problem here is if you go down a little bit there are some communities on the West side of the highway that they would have no road connectivity with other parts of what would be Council District 6 here without going out into Council District 5 and then back in again. MR. MELROSE: This map also splits Pahoa town; just as Ms. Wille didn't like the idea of going through the middle of Waimea Town on the highway, this does the same thing here. CHR. SIRACUSA: Can we get it a little closer to Pahoa? Yes, it does. Pahoa is split. MR. MELROSE: So if you were going to draw that line, you would draw it along the by -pass, if anything. This goes to the bigger question and I'm interested in the Puna perspective on this. That is the north /south, east /west options; whether it makes more sense to try to cut east /west, or north/south. CHR. SIRACUSA: For people living in Puna makai, most of their activities go north to south and south to north. For example, the only gas station is in Pahoa. Everybody has to go north to get to the gas station; the same thing for the Post Office. All the actual movement of people and activities, and Pahoa has the only community center where all the events happen. It just doesn't really make sense to take half a community and push it into another district. Then there is the whole road connectivity issue, which is a problem. Like where I live; which is you follow Cemetery Road to the west side of Pahoa, North Kaohe Homestead Road. The only way to get 24 out from my community, which is Kaohe Homestead Road, to get to a polling place, or anywhere else would be to go out into another district. So there is no road connectivity. It is a cul -de -sac community anyways; there is only one road in and out. MR. MELROSE: I just ask the question whether it makes sense, given that we want to throw a variety of alternatives out on the table for conversation, whether this one is one of those potential alternate thoughts. It is different enough; it touches a couple of different perspectives. I wouldn't choose it, but I don't know that it doesn't capture an alternative. CHR. SIRACUSA: It might be tweakable. MR. CARVALHO: It's a real radical change. MR. MELROSE: It seems to me we ought to have a couple of those. MS. UGALDE: If you can go up to the Volcano area, if this is a map we are going to keep, there is just one thing I want to point out. There is a little piece of Volcano Golf Course Subdivision that is in District 7, and everything else is in District 6. If you go north, you can see it. MR. MELROSE: It's right there, yes, you can see Piimauna. So if we hold it in, I would just include that piece. MS. UGALDE: And the other part of Pukiawe Circle. Just that little thing there would have to be pulled in, that's all. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: For that sake of discussion, if you pulled in Piimauna, what would the map look like? Can that be done? When we talk about pulling it in, you want to make it part of the yellow? Is that all there is? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: It is only 89 people. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we want to hold this one aside for further consideration in the future? And, if we do make that change we will have to give it new number and re submit it. Mr. Carvalho moved to keep Plan 17 for further consideration. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 25 CHR. SIRACUSA: We have now completed all of the Elections Office submitted Plans. The next step is we look at previously submitted Plans 6 through 11. Review and Discuss Plan —6 CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, this is Plan _6. We looked at Plans 6 through 11 and discussed them to some extent, but we didn't make any decisions. My note on this one is that several subdivisions are split in this one, and Volcano is in District 6. Certainly Paradise Park is divided. A good part of Paradise Park is in the next district over. MR. MELROSE: Can we look at the boundary between Districts 2, 3 and 4? You know, these districts are going to have to blend; there is no way they don't. They are going to have to blend at some level. CHR. SIRACUSA: Downtown is divided. MR. MELROSE: That's about where it is today. MS. POINDEXTER: Even in that corner by the oceanfront. MR. MELROSE: That's a little different, but that's about where the line is today, it's just the other side of the river, out a ways, maybe not as far as Honoli'i. CHR. SIRACUSA: There are some very strange lines there between District 1 and 2. MR. MELROSE: You can blame that on the census blocks, and that could be cleaned up. I think you are just talking about very oddly shaped districts; this one has an odd Waimea district. CHR. SIRACUSA: Did you want to see Waimea? This has Waimea in Hamdkua. MR. KANUHA: I don't like that split. Can we see Kona real fast? I personally didn't like how District 9 maneuvers in and out and comes towards Mahaiula and then comes back around and goes down. It takes half of Kaloko, and I can't see that happening. Mr. Kanuha moved to eliminate Plan 6. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 26 Review and Discuss Plan —7 CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's look at Plan 7. MR. MELROSE: I see a couple of things on Plan number 7. It's one of the first we've seen that shows an upper and lower Puna. It also seems to accommodate this growth issue we have, with 2,100 in Hilo related to the University. Those two districts being a little high; the Puna districts being low, the Kona districts being low; so just from a population adjustment perspective, it is more attentive to that than others have been. CHR. SIRACUSA: However, I believe, if you zoom in there, Hawaiian Paradise Park is divided, pretty much down the middle. MR. MELROSE: To challenge that for a second; yes, it's split, but there are 20,183 votes in that area. What area don't you want in it; that would make that closer? CHR. SIRACUSA: But, there are some maps that manage to keep Hawaiian Paradise Park intact. MR. MELROSE: Right, but then they also go along the highway. MS. POINDEXTER: Can we zoom in to Waimea /Hamakua? MR. MELROSE: It splits Pu`unani; that's a tough one. That district, if you click on the next census tract, it goes all around the little pinnacle to the right, if you try to get the rest of Pu`unani. You end up getting everything else around the other side, and split that one in half. It's nuts. Actually Elections Office submitted, as Pat said, they submitted a bunch of suggestions to the Census Bureau on how to fix them, and they didn't change any of them. CHR. SIRACUSA: Is Waimea split? MR. CARVALHO: Yes, Waimea is split. Ms. Poindexter moved to eliminate Plan 7. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. ftA Review and Discuss Plan —8 CHR. SIRACUSA: This is the one. MR. MELROSE: Can I just move to reject this one? CHR. SIRACUSA: You have to say why. MR. MELROSE: Based on the splitting of the district in Puna, the Council 1 picking up Kona district. This is a fairly blatant - - -You know, the numbers are right, but again, it shows you that you can come up with anything with numbers that work. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have two split districts here. Mr. Melrose moved to eliminate Plan 8. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan —9 CHR. SIRACUSA: Plan 9, I have a note that this one is almost the same as Plan 11. It was good for Kailua but not for Waimea; that is what we were saying last time when we looked at it. MR. CARVALHO: This is District 8 with a finger going up the middle. It's like stealing Waimea. CHR. SIRACUSA: Commissioners, your comments, please, on the record with your mic on. MR. MELROSE: The Hamakua District, if you just take that as a boundary, and the boundary is that all of Hamakua stays in Hamakua; what it does is it forces it across the Hilo Bay to Kaumana. So, you are either going to split the middle of Hilo town up Kaumana Drive and put that in the Hamakua District, or you are going to take - - -And the Kaumana guys have nothing to do with the Hamakua District, whereas the Lake Land area is more Hamakua than the other side. So it is just another example of the difficulty of drawing one, you impact another. MS. POINDEXTER: I agree that the similarities for Lake Land, have more in common with people in Hamakua than Kaumana. M; CHR. SIRACUSA: Is it splitting the Hawaiian Homelands in the Hilo area? It splits Panaewa from Keaukaha; Patrick wouldn't like that. Do you want to go down a little lower now, and head south? MR. MELROSE: This one just leaves one seat in the Hilo district. CHR. SIRACUSA: Pahoa is split and because of that it gives you some road disconnects. I'll accept a motion to reject this one. Ms. Ugalde moved to eliminate Plan _9. Seconded by Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan—] 0 CHR. SIRACUSA: Plan 10. MR. MELROSE: Just for comparison, I think if you take Plan 10, 15 and 16, you see they are almost identical. CHR. SIRACUSA: They might have been submitted by the same person. MR. CARVALHO: The numbers vary just a little bit. My point is we just need one of them, and then we can work on it. You can pick any one of them, but we don't need to keep all three of them. CHR. SIRACUSA: Shyla, do you want to start zooming in on this one? MR. KANUHA: Can we start on the Kona side real fast? I'm pretty sure I didn't have a problem with these lines; I just want to see it again. No, not a big problem at all. CHR. SIRACUSA: Okay, then move up to Waimea then, and Waik6loa. MS. POINDEXTER: This is the one that splits - -- MR. MELROSE: Does anyone know if there are any houses in that little bubble off the edge of Waik6loa, on the south side of Waik6loa Road; are there any houses? MS. POINDEXTER: I thought that was the helicopter pad area. PQ MR. MELROSE: There may be an affordable housing project there that was originally done by the unions. MS. POINDEXTER: I thought they were across that road. What road is that? MR. MELROSE: Puamalia Street. Can you just put an image on to that, Shyla? MS. POINDEXTER: That is an apartment complex area right there. It's a low income area. MR. MELROSE: Is Puako in District 9, now? MR. CARVALHO: I'm pretty sure it is. MR. MELROSE: By count, there is not that much population in the town itself. You can actually move that in. Generally, on the west side, I don't see a real problem with this one; and on the east side I think you can move some boundaries around a little bit to maybe right this one. The Hamakua District is a little high, and it needs to be a little high, but not that high. And District 2 needs to go higher as well, because of the school. But interesting, this same pattern is repeated almost exactly in Plan 15 and 16. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's move over to the right. MR. MELROSE: Put a photo on that one to see what's on the other side of Shower Drive. MS. POINDEXTER: Do we want to make a motion to keep this map? MR. MELROSE: If we were going to keep something like this, I would want to re- number the Districts, so that District 3 would be the Keaukaha area and 4 and 5 being the Puna seat. They are kind of juxtaposed there. That's a small issue for later. MR. MELROSE: Just a clarification. If we are going to hold on to these, will we come back to them to amend them, or do we want to suggest some amendments and have them re- submitted by Elections? This is an alternate plan, and we have to do something about it, accept it or - -- CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, any acceptance is temporary, but I think eliminations are eliminations. Mr. Melrose moved to keep Plan _10. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 30 MR. MELROSE: Just for the sake of expedience, because Plan 15 and 16 are so similar, can we take them all at once, and look to combine them. CHR. SIRACUSA: But they are separate Communications on the agenda. That is what will cause a problem. Review and Discuss Plan—] I CHR. SIRACUSA: We are looking at Plan_l 1. This one has a finger. It is sort of similar to Plan-9. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: This one is the same as 9 except for the size of District 7. CHR. SIRACUSA: And Plan-9 we decided to eliminate. So are we going to eliminate this one as well? Mr. Middlesworth moved to eliminate Plan 11. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan 12 CHR. SIRACUSA: We have finished that agenda item, now we are on to Plans 12 through 16. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Madam Chair I think we should reject this plan because of the variances. It's high by 8% and low by 8 %, you can't even get close. Mr. Middlesworth moved to eliminate Plan-12. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 31 Review and Discuss Plan—] 3 MR. MIDDLESWORTH: We should reject Plan 13 on the same basis; the deviations are too high. Mr. Middlesworth moved to eliminate Plan-13. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. Review and Discuss Plan—] 4 CHR. SIRACUSA: Now we go to Plan 14. Do you want to start with Kona, Dru? MR. KANUHA: Sure, let's go to Kona. It doesn't really split too many people, except for that Bishop Road and Palekana; that whole subdivision, if there is anybody up there. MR. MELROSE: That is Poi Factory Road. MR. KANUHA: This goes up Palani Road. I would put that whole block into the other district. CHR. SIRACUSA: So, you are saying it's possible with some tweaking? MR. CARVALHO: Let's look at District 9. MR. KANUHA: It splits Waikoloa, and I think it splits Honoka' a. MR. MELROSE: I think this one has some fatal flaws in it. I would say the way it treats Waikoloa, some of the issues in Honoka'a. I'm not sure what Dru's perspective is, but coming up Palani, and that piece in Hilo is particularly problematic. Mr. Melrose moved to eliminate Plan 14. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. 9% Review and Discuss Plan—] 5 CHR. SIRACUSA: Now we go to Plan 15. MR. MELROSE: Can I suggest we kind of put 15 and 16 in with Plan 10 and we work on a new plan that reflects generally these boundaries? MS. POINDEXTER: Are you suggesting or are you making a motion? MR. MELROSE: Well, I'm just suggesting that we deal with them both at the same time. CHR. SIRACUSA: I have some major problems with this one. MR. MELROSE: Are they different concerns than with Plan 10? CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, Volcano is in District 6 for one thing, and a whole chunk of upper Puna is in District 6. Pahoa is in District 3, but all of the P.O. Boxes for all of these subdivisions that are in 5 are in Pahoa. So Pahoa is a big population base, and the people who gravitate to Pahoa for everything they have to do, are going into two different districts. Once again, the subdivisions on the west side of Highway 130 between Pahoa and the coast have no connectivity. Mountain View is split here. MR. MELROSE: This is the same as Plan _10 and we agreed to hold on to 10 and look at them, so aside for some small changes that can be worked on, we have one like it. We can reject these and just work on 10 if that is what you want to do. I'm just saying that they are very similar. CHR. SIRACUSA: Jeff, your motion was to hold all three of them aside? MR. MELROSE: And keep working on them as an alternative. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, who is going to work on them as a group? Are you saying that you are going to instruct Elections to do that, or are you personally going to take that on? Who is we . ?„ MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I'm going to work on all of these. It's what I'm doing in my spare time. MR. KANUHA: I know we have already agreed to work on Plan _10. Plan _15 and Plan-16 are basically worked upon versions of Plan-10; can we just keep Plan-10 and get rid of 15 and 16? CHR. SIRACUSA: That's all right with me. Do you want to make a motion? MS. POINDEXTER: If that's the case, then I would want to review Plan-15 and Plan-16 more closely and see which one is the best out of the three. I like the idea of keeping that together and 33 then reviewing them at a later time, and looking at what we are rejecting and what we are keeping. But is we are going to get rid of it then we need to look at it more closely. MR. KANUHA: I just don't want to get to a later point where we have a whole bunch of these maps, so I would personally recommend that we look over this and see if we want to keep it or not. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: If you look at the differences between Plan _15 and Plan 16; District 4 is larger in 15 than it is in 16; and 4 should be larger to accommodate the growth issue. District 7 ought to be smaller, but we've got to work on that. Both of the Puna districts are too big because of the growth issue. You can't get over 21,000 over there in Paradise Park because that's going to grow like crazy. Either way, these are all going to have to be re- worked to get the numbers, so just pick one. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well we already decided to hold on to Plan _10 for re- working; so in that case, if it doesn't make any difference, let's just eliminate 15 and 16. MS. POINDEXTER: I don't think that is fair though. I think we should review it and then decide on 15 and 16. I don't think it's fair to the people who put this that we didn't look at it closely and I would like to review the lines between District 1, 9 and 2 for me. MR. KANUHA: I recommend that we just review Plan 15 for now, instead of going with the whole bunch. CHR. SIRACUSA: So we are looking at 15. Do I have a motion to either hold on to it or eliminate it? MS. POINDEXTER: I'd also like to see more on the boundary of Council District 9 and zoom in on where it's dividing that area. I'm sure Joe would want to look at 9 and 8 at some point. MR. MELROSE: It moves White Road into Hamakua. It goes up Waianuinui and Pi`ihonua area all end up in that district. MS. POINDEXTER: I would want to reject this one; I just wanted to give it a fair shot. CHR. SIRACUSA: Let's look at Hilo and down towards Paradise Park. It gets Pohaku Circle. Those are small lots and it is dense. I have some friends over there and it is one house after another over there. It divides Pahoa. These people in Nanawale, they walk into Pahoa. MR. MELROSE: And they still will after we draw the line, this is only for voting purposes. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Is that the problems that we are going to have? Let's for the sake of discussion say the line is there at Pahoa and Nanawale, so people in Pahoa or at the Village Road would have to go into Nanawale to vote? Is that what I'm hearing? Or would they vote in Pahoa? Ecy! CHR. SIRACUSA: The voting is in Pahoa, at Pahoa High School. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: So, does Nanawale vote somewhere else? CHR. SIRACUSA: No, Nanawale votes in Pahoa. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Does anyone know where Nanawale would vote? MR. MELROSE: They could vote at the Community Center; that is all part of the changes. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: One of the concerns that I heard was that they would have to go outside of their district to vote, but that wouldn't be their district anymore. They would be in a new district. CHR. SIRACUSA: But where would they vote? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: We don't make that decision, we just draw the lines. That's the only reason I'm asking. I'm hearing the discussion that say they are going to have to go outside of the district to vote, but when you draw the district, that's your district, and Elections is going to have to find somewhere in that district for them to vote. CHR. SIRACUSA: In this one, with Pahoa itself in Council District 3, then the people in my community would be able to go and vote. We wouldn't be jumping outside of our district to vote. We would have road continuity with this one. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: I think we should reject this one on the basis of the size of the districts. Mr. Middlesworth moved to eliminate Plan_15. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: Do we need a short break? RECESS: At 4:10 p.m. the Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE: The meeting was reconvened at 4:20 p.m. Kiel Review and Discuss Plan] CHR. SIRACUSA: We have one more map to look at, and that is Plan 16 MR. CARVALHO: Shyla, can we zoom to Waimea? MS. POINDEXTER: The problem with the Hamakua District is either we are going to give Waimea back or we are going to take some of Hilo. MR. CARVALHO: Can we pan to Hilo? MS. POINDEXTER: I would love to see Waik6loa Village after this one. MR. MELROSE: It kind of goes up along Wailuku River. MR. CARVALHO: Contrary to Plan _10; 10 had a spit going out along side the Bay. So that is taken out on this one. I don't know how many people were in there. Nothing was done in Volcano, so Volcano needs to be adjusted. That little adjustment needs to be done in Volcano. MS. POINDEXTER: So Joe, I think with this one, you are liking what it's doing to the Waimea area. So maybe on Plan _10, we could make adjustments with what they were suggesting earlier; work just on one, instead of all. The reason I said to review it is because I know people spent time doing these maps and I think we owe it to them to review it like we review everybody elses. MR. CARVALHO: Could you look at Waik6loa? CHR. SIRACUSA: It's divided there too. MR. CARVALHO: It's the southern part. CHR. SIRACUSA: Should we move up towards Waimea now? MR. MIDDLESWORTH: Either Waimea or Waik6loa is going to have to be split to make these districts look anywhere near this way. We have got to decide somewhere along the line which one; maybe both. MR. CARVALHO: Waiki'i stays in District 1. MR. KANUHA: Sorry I haven't been saying anything, but Kona has basically stayed the same for all of these maps; District 7 is the same population for everyone, and 15 and 16. MS. POINDEXTER: I think somebody from District 9 submitted this map because it gave Waimea everything they wanted. MR. CARVALHO: They were pounding on me for the last six months. 36 MS. POINDEXTER: But again, we could go to Map 10, which we already accepted, which is close to this, and work on 10 together. So I would like to reject this. Ms. Poindexter moved to eliminate Plan 16. Seconded by Mr. Carvalho and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. MR. MELROSE: Just so we make sure we had criteria for that, the criteria of it was the split in Waik6loa, the penetration into Hilo. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have now completed all the discussion on Communication 35, so I will take the vote on closing file on Communication 35. The motion to close file on COMM. 35 was carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. UNFINISHED BUSINESS ANNOUNCEMENTS CHR. SIRACUSA: We can now go to Unfinished Business -- -Karen did you want to come on up with your calendar? We had discussed it earlier and we said we had to wait until the end of the meeting to do the motion and make the official announcement about the September 9, 2011 meeting. MS. EOFF: I just wanted to suggest that on September 9th, I think more Commissioners would be available in the morning, and there is no reason why we couldn't change the meeting time to earlier in the day, if you would like to. 37 CHR. SIRACUSA: I think it would certainly be better for some of us to hold the meetings earlier in the day. Does it matter to anyone that it has to be at 1:30 p.m.? So no one is opposed to changing it. We are looking at instead of 1:00 p.m., maybe 1 1:00 a.m. or 10:00 a.m.? Mr. Carvalho moved to convene the next meeting of the County of Hawaii Redistricting Commission on September 9, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. in Hilo. Seconded by Ms. Poindexter and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: Now we go to the next one which is in Kona on September 23d. Do we want to make at 10:00 a.m. also? MS. UGALDE: I can't make that meeting. I'm in a retreat. It's the only week I give myself the whole week. CHR. SIRACUSA: So you can't be there at all? MS. UGALDE: I can be there in the afternoon, Friday afternoon is fine. MR. KANUHA: But not in Kona. MS. EOFF: So you would stay in Hilo. MR. CARVALHO: And I will not be available that day. In the morning I can be there, but not in the afternoon. MS. EOFF: You might be able to start mid - morning and then Linda could join us at noon. CHR. SIRACUSA: What is your timing? MR. CARVALHO: Why don't we just do it in the afternoon, and I'll just be absent. CHR. SIRACUSA: We have to choose between you two? MR. CARVALHO: Just take Linda. CHR. SIRACUSA: What if we compromise and say 11:00 a.m.? W MR. CARVALHO: That's Kona, right? On the 23rd I have to catch a flight, so on the 23rd if we do it at the new Civic Center it's closer to the airport. What time did we say? What time is good for everybody? CHR. SIRACUSA: So 10:00 a.m. is good for everybody, on September 23, 2011 in Kona. Ms. Ugalde moved to convene the following meeting of the County of Hawaii Redistricting Commission on September 23, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. in Kona at the West Hawaii Civic Center. Seconded Mr. Kanuha and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiola`a, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. MR. MELROSE: Just a thought on agenda items. I'm assuming our primary agenda is to go through whatever new maps arise; and I think there are a couple here now already, but any new ones that come in. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, that will be a continual - -- MR. MELROSE: So that is on the agenda each time. I think the issue of an update or status of the adjusted numbers should be on the agenda. Our meetings are already set for the Public Hearings, but I think we ought to have the discussion of the Public Hearing process and talk about what this is going to look like. Can we have something on the agenda that looks like a conversation about the Public Hearings, so we know what the forum looks like. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes. Karen, will you make a note of that please for the agenda? I did want to ask Corporation Counsel something. I know Public Hearings are supposed to be just listening, but somehow I feel we really ought to do some sort of preparation to the public, like a preface or introduction to the whole thing, so they know when they start looking at the maps what sort of things they should be paying attention to; such as the various points that are in Ordinance 11 -29 that we are all talking about and that we have to take into consideration. Would it be allowable when we go out to Public Hearings to just have something that we could prepare that would inform the public what those criteria are? MR. CHANG: Madam Chair, are you asking to prepare something to give to the public ahead of time? CHR. SIRACUSA: Something like a prepared statement that basically says -- besides saying, "Welcome everyone and thank you for coming out " -- something like, "When you are looking at the maps, please be aware that we have certain criteria that had to be evaluated in the approval of these maps according to this Ordinance and this is what they are." We could just list them and 39 let them go with it, so they know what they are looking at, instead of just starting and just saying, okay we want to hear from you and then everyone comes up one at a time and talks. MR. CHANG: Well, generally, you are required to provide the notice of the hearing. In that notice you can describe what the public hearing is going to be about. The issue that I would caution you on is you don't want to necessarily be limiting yourself to certain criteria. Again, depending on how you are going to be approaching your evaluations of the maps. That would be the only concern I would have. You are welcome to say whatever you want in that notice to make the public aware of what you are going to be discussing at the hearing. CHR. SIRACUSA: Well, it would help because otherwise, what we've seen here is a lot of times people come in with misunderstandings of the process and they take a lot of time talking about stuff that is really not pertinent. It would help them to focus their comments and to make comments that are more spot on, if they knew what the rules are. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Madam Chair, if I may. The public hearings - -and the attorney can correct me if I'm wrong - -are under a different format than when we have meetings here, and statements from the public. So I would defer to what the attorney is saying; in the notice for those public hearings, that there would be a list of things. Your concerns could be put in there, that we have an agenda, and then you control the public hearing. When I say that; you are the Chair so you would control the Public Hearing by what you would believe is inappropriate; if the map says we are going to speak on Map 12 and 13, and someone wants to raise the question of 15, I think it is incumbent upon you, it is your prerogative, your responsibility to do that. I would again say that the mere fact of having it in the notice why you are showing up at the public hearing; because, again, statements from the public at our meeting is totally different from the public hearings. CHR. SIRACUSA: I agree with you on that. I had no intention of discussing the particular maps, only making the public aware of the conditions in Ordinance 11 -29. Maybe we can do it just by having that printed out as bullet points or something like that and hand it out to the people at these hearings so they know what - -- MS. POINDEXTER: I think I understand what Rene is trying to get at. There were several people who came and were misunderstanding who this Redistricting Commission represented. They thought we were the Honolulu. Even this Sunday after Mass, somebody came and said "When are you guys coming to the community because I'm concerned about Mark Nakashima." He was talking about a different Commission; Reapportionment Commission. So, I think what Rene is saying that just for clarity at the beginning of the meeting, and I think this can be addressed at the next meeting when we set the agenda, what we are going to do first. An introduction of who are we, and where do we represent; what districts, having that clarity. I don't know I that's what you were trying to say, but I know I want that clarified as well. CHR. SIRACUSA: Yes, I would want them to know that this only has to do with Council Districts, that the Commissioners are all volunteers, and each one represents another Council District because each one of us knows our own districts the best, and that these are the guidelines E1111 under which we have to work. We would hope they would make their comments bearing those guidelines in mind. MR. CHANG: That is within your purview as the Chair to direct the focus of the hearing. So at the onset, at the beginning of the hearing you could definitely introduce yourselves and the purpose for why you are there. That isn't necessarily something you would need to agendize or limit yourself to, because it is not necessarily part of business per say. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: I just got a little bit concerned when you said the public hearings were not to discuss the maps. CHR. SIRACUSA: No, no, no. I would not discuss maps in my introduction. I would not say we voted to eliminate this map or we like this map better or something like that. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Am I to understand that when we go out on public hearings, we are taking maps already ready to be shown to the public; and we will discuss those maps. By that time, all deadlines for any more submittals of maps is over. CHR. SIRACUSA: Right, but I'm just saying that we are not going to discuss them; the public has to tell us what they think about those maps. That is what those public hearings are about. Right? Not for us to tell them. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Unless you are asked a question. That's all I'm saying. CHR. SIRACUSA: I don't know. Can we answer questions at a public hearing? MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: We don't answer questions then? CHR. SIRACUSA: I don't think so. MR. MIDDLESWORTH: You can't answer questions. CHR. SIRACUSA: I think it is a hearing because we just listen. MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: Okay, that's what I meant. CHR. SIRACUSA: All I was talking about was an introduction to sort of set the - -- MR. KAHAWAIOLA`A: You will be able to do that, I am quite sure. CHR. SIRACUSA: Just to let them know what is happening and what it is all about, but not to go into anything that would skew their decisions. MR. CHANG: Right, Madam Chair; that is something that can go onto your agenda. Item one of your agenda could very well be Introduction of the Commissioners. 41 CHR. SIRACUSA: If I drafted something, for example, then I could present it to the Commission at our next meeting and you could look it over and see if it is okay. MR. MELROSE: Could you ask Mr. Udovic to address at our next meeting, the overall issue of how we conduct Public Hearings. It always seems so odd to me to be sitting here in a listening mode with no ability to ask a follow up question and getting waved off like I can't ask that question. That seems very inappropriate, very inhospitable, unengaged, and so I really want guidance. People say we can't ask them questions; clarification questions? Come on, I want to know what that latitude is and we should be advised at the next meeting when we have the public hearings on the agenda, by Mr. Udovic. MR. CHANG: Sure, I will advise Mr. Udovic to do so. If he is not able to, then I will respond to you. CHR. SIRACUSA: So often, we hear people say things, and they are under tremendous misapprehensions, and it would be so nice to just educate them, if nothing else, so they don't keep carrying those on and telling their friends and then their friends have the misapprehensions too and it spreads like a chain reaction. Like the whole business about when everyone was confusing Reapportionment with Redistricting. It would have been nice to have been able to make a factual explanation and lay it to rest, and yet we were told we couldn't do it because it was the wrong part of the meeting for that. ADJOURNMENT There being no further business, at 4:45 p.m., Mr. Melrose moved to adjourn the meeting. Seconded by Ms. Ugalde and carried by the following vote: Ayes: Commissioners Carvalho, Kahawaiolaa, Kanuha, Melrose, Middlesworth, Poindexter, Ugalde, and Chair Siracusa. Noes: None. Absent: Commissioner Kahui. CHR. SIRACUSA: Motion carries, we are adjourned. 42 Respectfully Submitted, Karen Eoff, Secretary Approved on September 9, 2011: Ms. Rene Siracusa, Chair Hawaii County Redistricting Commission 43