HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-04-05 Windward Transcript Ag Tourism
PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
APRIL 5, 2012
A regularly advertised hearing on the PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED AMENDMENT CHAPTER 25
(ZONING CODE) OF THE HAWAI‘I COUNTY CODE 1983 (2005 EDITION, AS AMENDED) RELATING
TO AGRICULTURAL TOURISM, was called to order at 9:02 a.m. in the County of Hawai‘i, Aupuni Center
Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i, with Chairman Zendo Kern presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Zendo Kern, Dean Au, Ronald Gonzales, Wallace Ishibashi, Stephen Ono and
Raylene Moses
STAFF PRESENT: Ivan Torigoe (Deputy Corporation Counsel), B. J. Leithead Todd (Planning Director),
Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager), Maija Cottle (Staff Planner), Jeff Darrow (Staff Planner), and Sharon
Nomura (Secretary)
And three people from the public in attendance.
APPLICANT: PLANNING DIRECTOR INITIATED
Amendment to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code) of the Hawai‘i County Code 1983 (2005 Edition, as amended)
relating to Agricultural Tourism. The proposed amendment will specifically amend Sections 25-1-5(b),
25-2-71, 25-2-75, and 25-4-15 relating to definitions, plan approval requirements, and use regulations,
respectively, as they are related to agricultural tourism.
KERN: Let’s get started with the application No. 1, Planning Director initiated Amendment to Chapter 25
(Zoning Code) of the Hawai‘i County Code 1983 (2005 Edition, as amended) relating to Agricultural Tourism.
And we’ll let Daryn go through the rest of it. Thank you. Good morning, Daryn.
ARAI: Hi, Commissioners. Before I let the Planning Director kind of give you a brief overview of the proposal
before you, I wanted to apologize for the last-minute revisions that we made. The revisions are not substantive,
for the most part, but it was to provide for a much greater clarity and consistency throughout the bill. The
Planning Director spent a lot of time working on this, with the members in the community, in the development
of this bill. I also want to recognize Maija who spent a lot of time reviewing the bill as well and making some
very productive comments. With that, if I could turn it over to the Planning Director.
KERN: Madam Director?
LEITHEAD TODD: Some time back the State Legislature approved agricultural tourism as an activity on ag
lands, provided the counties adopted an ordinance. Hawai‘i County' is the only county that has actually adopted
an agricultural tourism ordinance. And under the theory of the law, ag tourism actually isn't a theoretically legal
activity unless you have an ordinance or if you already had a special use permit granted for specific types of
activities. Not included, kind of in the concept of ag tourism, is if you had an ongoing thing where, you know, a
school came and brought school buses to look at your operation, that wasn't to be considered ag tourism, but
something that, you know, is just part of the educational experience. And I think they were not envisioning, you
know, one time tours like that where you have got a conference and they want to come out and see what is
happening on a particular farm. But they were looking more at the ongoing day-to-day, week-to-week, month-
to-month types of activities that you might have where people come and do a tour.
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We ran into a snag. And the complaints that we had from the agricultural community was that for the smaller
farmers because there was a requirement for plan approval and because the Council had amended plan approval
to trigger a drainage study that for the small operations and smaller numbers of tourists the drainage study was
an impediment because it required hiring an engineer and it was maybe $5,000 to$6,000 to get a drainage study.
And they were saying that, hey, if we are not putting up new structures, if we’re not putting in asphalt, if we’re
not, you know, doing improvements, cause improvements you’d have to go get a building permit, in other
words, just saying if we are just using what we already have, why do we have to go get this drainage study? So
that was one of the concerns.
And the other thing is we lumped agricultural tourism regardless of size of operation into one category. So it
took a while looking at it. And we basically tried to come up with at least a two-tiered, actually, it's a three
tiered system, which the current ordinance defines agricultural tourism as having up to 30,000 visitors a year.
And beyond 30,000 you have to go get a special use permit. So what I did is I took that existing number of
30,000 and I broke it into two categories. Minor tourism which would be less than 15,000 tourists a year and
would only have access through 15-passenger vans and single cars, as opposed to tour buses. And for those they
basically wouldn’t need to have that plan approval and it wouldn't trigger a drainage study. So this would take
care of the coffee farmer, you know, or, you know, some of these smaller operations where they’re just putting a
sign up. And, you know, sometimes in many cases they have like a self-guided tour, they’ll have a little
package of, you know, material that explains what the farm is doing. And it’s an opportunity for the farmers to
try and get people to come and buy things at their roadside fruit stand, which is a permitted, already a permitted
use. But it’s to enhance the experience, and perhaps they can also sell some coffee mugs and other things that
have the name of their farm on it. So we tried to break it down into two tiers from 0 to 15,000 people a year.
And we broke that further down by weekly traffic and daily traffic, because obviously you didn’t want a
situation where you had 15,000 people show up on one day out of the year. And so we broke it down by
numbers, you know, and also by the size of the vehicles that could access the property.
The feeling was that any operation that we would define as major tourism, ag tourism, which would be more
than 15,000 and those types of operations that would have larger tour buses which would have more of an
impact on the roads, which would have bigger issues with turning radius, and also would require certain parking,
you know, accommodations for those larger vehicles, that those should have a drainage study, have a plan
approval, and tell us, you know, how are you accommodating these larger groups that are going to come to your
property. And then we left in the requirement that if it is more than 30,000 it has to be a special use permit,
which would then require public hearings and notices to the neighbors and stuff like that. And so basically I just
tweaked the existing ordinance that is in place to try and break it into two different categories. And also we
added some additional definitions of what, you know, ag tourism is, what is agriculture. There may be need to
add additional definitions as this goes through, you know, to the Council because we are still getting comment
in.
I gave copies to the HATA, which is the Hawai‘i Agricultural Tourism Association. I also took copies to our
local agriculture committee that is working on, you know, where do we go with ag, what do we do, how do we
enhance ag. And they’ve asked and sent emails out to different farmers that are on their lists. And so we’re still
receiving some input from them. And basically their response has been that they think this is the right direction
to go. They think there might be a few tweaks here and there. Like the one e-mail we had is like, you know, I
guess I didn't put botanical garden in but they're saying that they consider that to be agricultural tourism already.
And so, you know, it’s a work in progress but it is trying to respond to the concerns that we have heard. And
we've heard from other counties. They had been waiting to see what we did with this, cause they are going to
try and use this as a model to try and adopt ordinances in the counties.
Of course all of this, some of this may be moot, depending on what the State Legislature does. Because they are
tweaking it and we are still not sure what they are doing, because we don't have any provisions in ag tourism for
overnight accommodations. If you want to have overnight accommodations you still have to come and get a
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bed-and-breakfast special use permit from the planning commissions. State Legislature had a bill this session
where it looked like they were taking that out and allowing it. The latest version of the bill that I saw though
limited it only to Oahu, because it said for counties with more than 200,000 people. And so it looked like it was
trying to create a smaller area where they would allow the overnight accommodations. But at least the version I
saw seemed like it took it out for the neighbor islanders. And so I wasn't sure what was going on with the bill
because it wasn't only to agricultural activity. And so are waiting to see, we are tracking that. But because it
didn't have amendments that impact our bill at this point, I think that we are okay. But if they do do something,
then we will have to draft a bill in response to the Legislature when they are done in May, and then come back
to you with any appropriate amendments -- as we have been past when they have added, you know, alternative
energy, bio fuels, solar panels to agricultural areas, and then we’ve had to draft something to amend our Code.
But this is just to try and take care of the current agricultural tourism ordinance as it exists in Hawai‘i County.
KERN: Thank you, Madam Director. Any questions?
ONO: Yeah, I’m kind of -.
KERN: Use your microphone, please.
ONO: Oh, I’m sorry. Yes, I’m just curious. Could you define what is a small farmer? How do you define a
small farmer?
LEITHEAD TODD: Well, what we’ve done here is we’ve defined not a small farmer but minor agricultural
tourism and major agricultural tourism.
ONO: It’s 15 - and 30 -.
LEITHEAD TODD: So, yeah. Minor is 15,000 or less and major is between 15,000 to 30,000 visitors a year.
ONO: So could any individual farmer participate in this ag tourism program merely by saying I want to have a
roadside stand selling my product?
LEITHEAD TODD: Well, they are currently, even without agricultural tourism, allowed to have a roadside
stand. That’s a permitted use already. So any farmer can set up a, as long as it’s selling product from his farm.
He cannot sell product from nonagricultural sources, he can’t sell products from somebody else’s farm. But if
I’ve got a farm in, let’s say, South Kona, and I happen to have avocado and banana on my farm, I can put up a
little stand at the front and have a sign that says avocadoes and bananas. And you actually will see some that are
on the honor system along the roads in South Kona - you know, there’s nobody there, there’s a bucket to put
money in. And, you know, there are even flower leis, I’ve seen one; and they put a price on it and it’s the honor
system. Because they’re farming, they can’t man it.
ONO: Right, right.
LEITHEAD TODD: Now that’s legal and it’s not considered agricultural tourism because that was a use that
was already in the State law, cause you’re allowed to sell from your property. The concept of agricultural
tourism is that we want people to be able to participate in, let’s say, a tour of the coffee farm, and also expand
some of the items that you can sell -.
ONO: I see.
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LEITHEAD TODD: So, if you want to have coffee mugs that say Kawamata Farms, or Joe’s Kona Coffee, you
know, you want to have a t-shirt that’s related to your coffee farm in addition to selling the coffee. So that is
expanding what you can do; and part of that was related to what we were doing with agricultural tourism.
ONO: But it still has to be within your area of production, you cannot be looking at Kona Farmers Association
kind of a sale on your roadside stand? It has to be -?
LEITHEAD TODD: Yeah, if you’re going, it’s limited. There are steps you have to take. If you want to do
like Akatsuka, that’s still, that’s probably a special use permit because, number one, it’s big tour buses, I suspect
that the numbers going there are very high, and the size of the structure that they have. And so I just took the
existing bill which had that 30,000 cutoff and, you know, tried to figure out what to do. I didn’t address those
issues above the 30,000. But something big like Akatsuka, that would still be a special use permit. Because you
look at all that, and that would require a drainage study because of the amount of asphalt that they put down.
ONO: Thank you.
KERN: Thank you. Any other questions for our Director? Daryn, you have something to add on that?
ARAI: Thank you. I just wanted to point out a letter in support of the bill by Stephen Bowles; and that was a
copy of a letter dated March 23rd. We did provide that to all of the Commissioners. And when I briefly
mention that it was largely not substantive the changes that we presented to you this morning, I wanted to refer
you to your report, the draft bill that was attached to your recommendation report. And I think it was on page 8,
yes, page 8, Item G as in Gary. I just wanted to emphasize and highlight that that provision basically says that if
an agricultural tourism activity does not conform to the standards of the ordinance should it be approved, then
they, those activities have until the end of this year in order to seek compliance. So I just wanted to make that
absolutely clear. The Code as it currently reads says May 20, 2010 as the compliance deadline. So, again, it’ll
be, the proposal is to amend it for December 31, 2012.
KERN: Thank you for pointing that out, Daryn. Any questions for staff or our Director? Okay, we’re going to
move into public testimony. I just want, Commissioners, I know we received some of these kind of last minute.
If any of you feel that we need to take a minute, take a 10-minute break to go over it in greater depth, please do
let me know and we’ll take that time. So let me know. I also said that we were going to limit public testimony
to three minutes. Since we only have three people signed up to testify, I’m going to give it five minutes, if you
need it. So we will have a timer here. We’ll call up Debbie Ward and Corey Harden. If you can both please
come up and I’ll swear you in.
HARDEN: I’m speaking for Debbie cause -. Is this on?
KERN: Yes, it is.
HARDEN: I’m speaking for Debbie cause she can’t come. But she sent me something.
KERN: Okay. Are you speaking for yourself as well?
HARDEN: Yeah.
KERN: Okay, can you raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth today before the Windward
Planning Commission?
HARDEN: Yes.
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KERN: Very good. And are you giving testimony -? Just give us your name and area you represent, and you
can give testimony, and then clarify whether it’s yours or Debbie’s.
HARDEN: Okay. So this is Debbie’s testimony. She says, “…I did not see anything relating to botanic
gardens, which, although they may not produce an ag product or something for sale, are indeed agricultural
tourism. I have a neighbor, on an old, weedy sugar cane land, who has put up a sign “Ualani Gardens, National
Botanic Garden” and claims she will bring tour buses in along the old state railroad right of way to her place. I
would hope that these rules would apply to this operation too.”
And another, “…most ag operations allow cesspools, but if a place is going to be visited by 40-50 people a day
(for the minors) who is going to enforce the rule that requires job johnnys rather than flushing into the
cesspools? Would the DOH even be alerted about a ‘minor’ ag tourism operation?” So two more thoughts.
And mine, first I appreciate all the hard -.
KERN: So that was -?
HARDEN: That was Debbie’s.
KERN: That was Debbie’s. Okay, are there any questions relating to that testimony? Seeing none, thank you.
Now just give me your name and area you represent, and -.
HARDEN: Cory Harden, and I’m from Mt. View but just speaking for myself.
KERN: Go for it.
HARDEN: Okay, and first I appreciate all the hard work that has gone into this. I mean I’m going to be
bringing up some concerns but -. I mean I know Bobby Jean is a very hard-working person so –. I do request
that decision-making be postponed just cause the difficulty of, you know, the final wasn’t available till like two
o'clock yesterday afternoon. It might have been changed after that. I tried to get the documents before your
previous meeting, went to Planning, they were not available. And Daryn very kindly sent them via e-mail, so I
took them and I did all my comments up really nice. And then the revision came in at seven o'clock last night,
and I went oh, my goodness. And part of the stuff was missing in the e-mail. Anyway, so, you know, it could
be a Sunshine Law problem. So I hope you’ll postponed decision-making. So based on what I know so far -.
It just seems that food self-sufficiency should be a real high priority. Just to kind of get it in perspective, there
was headlines today about a bill before the State Legislature, and it was talking about how we import 92% of
produce, livestock, and dairy products, how we are 2500 miles from most source of most our food. And there
was some testimony at the Legislature replacing just 10% of our food imports with locally grown produce will
give a nearly 200,000,000 boost to our economy, create more than 2,300 jobs and raise more than 6,000,000 in
state revenues. It’s not just food, it’s the economics. And they talk about what we all know that, you know, our
long supply lines make us very vulnerable to disruptions and economic volatility, global. And as you all know
we only have a few days supply of food on this island. Also look back at the County's agriculture development
plan, which is like 100 pages long, and ag tourism I could only find like three paragraphs. So just to get a
perspective on this.
Let’s see. And a couple of concerns I came up with, I do not support automatic approval after a certain review
time. I mean that is a loophole big enough to drive a truck through, and people do it all the time. I would like to
keep the 60-day review, not cut it to 30 days. I'd like to see approval required for minor as well as major
operations. I'd like to see a site inspection required before final approval for major operations. I'd like to keep
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the 1000-square foot limit for major operations. I'd like to keep the requirement that ag tourism revenues shall
not exceed the agriculture revenues.
And also I'm a bit concerned that stakeholders not involved with ag tourism, they didn’t seem to be involved in
the discussions. Perhaps some of that will take place now as it moves through the Planning Commission. So
again thanks again for your hard work, and those are more concerns to throw into the mix here. Thank you.
KERN: Thank you very much. Any questions? Commissioner Ono?
ONO: Yes, and I hope I phrase this question properly. You’re up in Mt. View. Are you a resident or are you in
the agricultural business?
HARDEN: I’m a resident.
ONO: Okay, thank you.
KERN: Any other questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you very much. Okay, does anybody want to
take a minute to go over it, or we can move into making a motion. Okay? Well, I’m willing to entertain a
motion. Daryn, do you have any recommendation on whether maybe to potentially defer it and give it a little bit
more time to gather more input, or any recommendation?
ARAI: The Director indicated earlier in her presentation that there may be opportunities or necessity to further
amend the bill based on testimony presented. We still have to take this bill to, before the Leeward Planning
Commission again in Kona. So, again, that may result in additional testimony information that could lead to
subsequent amendments. So at this point I defer to you. Director, you have anything -?
LEITHEAD TODD: Yeah, I was going to say I don’t have a problem either. You’ve got the draft fairly late, I
don’t have a problem with you folks deferring since there’s no rush on this. This is just, you know, it was a
request of the ag community. I’ve been sitting on it for a while and I just started looking at my list of things to
do and I said I better get this off my desk and get it out. But, you know, the process in our office is, you know, I
might draft something and then, you know, we’re trying to move it ahead, and staff will look at it, and we’ll get
comments and we’ll tweak it. And sometimes the tweaking occurs very last minute, and that’s just the process.
But I understand that you may want time to digest this and look at it, and that is not a problem. There is no
timeline, there’s no, you know, specific urgency on this at all cause it’s a Code amendment. You know, it’s not
somebody’s application to start running a business or anything like that.
KERN: Very good. Thank you, Madam Director. On that note, I’m willing to entertain a motion.
AU: Mr. Chair?
KERN: Commissioner Au.
AU: I move to defer amendments to Chapter 25 (Zoning Code) relating specifically to ag, agricultural tourism.
KERN: To the next meeting?
AU: To the next meeting.
KERN: Our May meeting?
AU: A deferral or postpone to the next meeting in May.
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KERN: Is there a second? Commissioner Moses?
MOSES: Second.
KERN: Discussion? Commissioner Ono?
ONO: Yes. Daryn, when is the hearing going to be at the Leeward, the other side of the island? What’s the
date?
th
ARAI: April 19.
ONO: Oh, this month.
ARAI: Yes, it is.
ONO: I’m just wondering in terms of the timetable of the deferral to -.
th
ARAI: Right. So we’ll hear it on the 19 before Leeward and then we’ll bring it back on May 3rd before you.
ONO: Okay, thank you.
KERN: Any other discussion? I personally think it’s a good idea to defer this for a minute so that we can all
digest it, see if there’s any more input that comes in. I think we can all agree that let’s do this, let’s do it right
the first time instead of rushing something, especially where we don’t need to. So I think giving it a minute and
really making sure it’s as good as it possibly can be is a great idea. With that, any other discussion? Let’s take
the vote. Okay, Daryn.
ARAI: Commissioner Au?
AU: Aye.
ARAI: Commissioner Moses?
MOSES: Aye.
ARAI: Commissioner Gonzales?
GONZALES Aye.
ARAI: Commissioner Ishibashi?
ISHIBASHI: Aye.
ARAI: Commissioner Ono?
ONO: Aye.
ARAI: Mr. Chairman?
KERN: Aye.
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ARAI: Mr. Chairman, motion to defer passes with six aye votes.
KERN: Thank you.
The discussion ended at 9:32 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
\
Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary
Windward Planning Commission
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