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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-05-03 Windward Transcript John Hegarty PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I HEARING TRANSCRIPT MAY 3, 2012 JOHN HEGARTY (SPP 12-132) A regularly advertised hearing on the application of was called to order at 9:16 a.m. in the County of Hawai‘i, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i, with Chairman Zendo Kern presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Zendo Kern, Dean Au, Ronald Gonzales, Wallace Ishibashi, and Raylene Moses STAFF PRESENT: Molly Lugo (Deputy Corporation Counsel), B. J. Leithead Todd (Planning Director), Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager), Phyllis Fujimoto (Staff Planner), Maija Cottle (Staff Planner), Jeff Darrow (Staff Planner), Sarah Hata-Finley, (Staff Member) and Sharon Nomura (Secretary) ABSENT AND EXCUSED: Stephen Ono APPLICANT: JOHN HEGARTY (SPP 12-132) Application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a convenience store with a certified kitchen on two properties covering a total of 4.64 acres of land within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The th properties are located at the southwestern corner of the Ainaloa Boulevard-37 Avenue intersection in Orchidland Estates Subdivision, directly across the Ainaloa Longhouse complex, Kea‘au, Hawai‘i, TMK: 1-6- 008: 240 & 141. KERN: Application No. 2, John Hegarty (SPP 12-132), application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a convenience store with a certified kitchen on two properties covering a total of 4.64 acres of land within the State Land Use Agricultural District off of Ainaloa Boulevard in Orchidland Estates Subdivision, on TMK: 1-6-008: 240 & 241. With that we’ll go to staff presentation, Maija. COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Commissioners. COMMISSIONERS: Good morning. COTTLE: The next application is a special permit request and the subject property is located in the Puna district in the Orchidland Estates Subdivision. It actually borders the Ainaloa Subdivision as well. You can see the property shown on the slide outlined in red. And we have the Keaau-Pahoa Road running in a north/south direction in the middle of the slide. And then you can see Ainaloa Boulevard coming off of the highway here. th The subject property is located in this area. And this is a close-up view. Again, Ainaloa Boulevard and 37 Avenue fronts the property as well. This is an aerial view of the property. Oh, you know what, let me go back to zoning. I skipped that. The property is zoned Agricultural 1-acre which is shown in light green, and most of the properties surrounding it are zoned Agricultural - 1 acre as well. The Ainaloa Longhouse which is a community facility is located directly across Ainaloa Boulevard in this area of dark green which is zoned Open. This is an aerial view of the property. It actually consists of two lots, side by th side; and you can see 37 Avenue here, and then Ainaloa Boulevard again running in like an east-west direction. This is the Ainaloa Longhouse across the street. They also have a mailbox area for the subdivision here. There is a volunteer fire station, and then a park and playfield in the back. There is also, as you can see, some scattered dwellings surrounding the property. 1 EXHIBIT A The applicant is requesting to establish a convenience store with a certified kitchen; and he is proposing to build a 4000 ft.² structure that would include an approximately 1280 ft.² convenience store. The remainder of the building would be used for a certified kitchen and office warehouse space, and a bathroom that would be accessory to the convenience store. The facility would be used as a base for delivery service that would provide hot meals and groceries to senior citizens and qualified disabled persons in the area. And the hours of operation would be daily from 6:30 a.m. to 8 p.m. th This is the applicant’s site plan. Ainaloa Boulevard runs along the bottom of the slide; and then 37 Avenue is on the right side of the slide. The applicant is proposing two driveways into the property – one for ingress, and then one for egress. And then this is the location of the convenience store, and then the warehouse, bathroom, office and the certified kitchen would be over in this location here. Here are some photos of the area. This is a view of Ainaloa Boulevard looking mauka. This is the property on the right-hand side and then the Longhouse mailbox, mailboxes are over in this area here just off of the slide. And this is a view of the property, again taken from the Ainaloa mailboxes looking across Ainaloa Boulevard th towards 37 and the property. So based on the site plan, the convenience store would be located generally in this area here. This is another view of the property from 37th Ave. looking towards the Longhouse. And then a th view of 37 Ave., you can see that it is gravel looking towards Ainaloa Boulevard with the property on the right-hand side. The Planning Director is recommending that this request be denied; and we have few reasons for that. One reason is that the request is not consistent with the plans for the area, both the General Plan and the Puna Community Development Plan; and then the Orchidland Estates Association has a design plan that they created in 2007. That design plan shows that Orchidland Estates wants to see all of their commercial developments in the existing village center that they have designated along Orchidland Boulevard near Highway 130. So you can see, let me just go to the General Plan. The General Plan designation for the property is Rural. You can see all of Āinaloa Boulevard, Orchidland, Tiki Gardens, and most of HPP are in the Rural designation, except for a few Medium Density areas which are intended for commercial development or commercial zoning. The property is identified by a red dot here. And then going to the Puna Community Development Plan, this is the village center I mentioned that the Association identified for development of commercial uses along Orchidland and Highway 130. And then Ainaloa neighborhood identified their village center further up in the subdivision. So if I can just go back to this slide, the blue outline here is where Ainaloa wanted to see commercial development occurring for their subdivision. So you can see the subject property is located pretty much halfway in between those two areas. The other reason that we are recommending denial is, if I can draw your attention to the new testimony we’ve received. Both the, the Orchidland Association has indicated that they are also not supportive of the request, st and they submitted that information in the letter dated May 1 that should be in your package. We also have the thth Devan MarksDavid Hayes letter from dated April 25 and dated April 24. So, with that, are there any questions? KERN: Are there any questions for staff? Commissioner Ishibashi? ISHIBASHI: Thank you. During the construction of that road they said they had some burial sites. How far away was that, is that burial sites from this location? COTTLE: I believe that burial was near King Kamehameha Road, which would be right in this area here, if I am not mistaken. 2 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: Thank you. KERN: Any other questions? I have a quick question. The area that is identified in the CDP for the commercial village center or the neighborhood village center, are those larger parcels or are those comprised of the 14,000 square feet, in those sized parcels? COTTLE: The -. KERN: The blue? COTTLE: One outlined in blue -. KERN: Yes. COTTLE: That the Ainaloa Association identified, that’s actually one large parcel owned by the Association. KERN: Thank you. Any other questions? Seeing none, thank you, Maija. Can I get the applicant or their representative to please come forward. Good morning. HEGARTY: Good morning. KERN: I’ll ask you to use your microphone. And just give me your name and address or area that you live and -. HEGARTY: My name is John Hegarty. I live on the edge of Ainaloa Boulevard. I also own the property on the right-hand side of Ainaloa across from the Longhouse, which happens to be my property also. Okay. KERN: And I’m going to swear you in real quick. Could you raise your right hand for me. Do you swear to tell the truth today before the Windward Planning Commission? HEGARTY: Yes, I do. KERN: And have already? HEGARTY: Yes. KERN: Okay, great. Have you received the background report and recommendation -? HEGARTY: I have. KERN: From the Planning Department? HEGARTY: I have. KERN: Okay. Are there any comments you’d like to make at this time? HEGARTY: Yes. In some, well, I’ll keep it small, the left-hand boundary of my property as you’re facing from Ainaloa Boulevard is Tiki Garden which is, there’s only an imaginary line separating me. What’s separating me from the Ainaloa Association or the area is the asphalt road. My hard luck is it seems that I’ve fallen to the Orchidland. That’s the excuse that the Planning Department is using that they already have a village center. I think what is not being addressed here is that the Orchidland Village Center, as the crow flies, is about 2 miles. 3 EXHIBIT A And since we’re not crows it’s about 3 to 3 1/2 miles. And I don’t think that a consideration has been taken for our senior citizens and people that really can’t afford the fuel that it would take to travel to this place. That’s why I’m attempting to get this service to these people. Oh, and one other comment that we have received, I just got it this morning, is that the Orchidland Association th which I had entailed a meeting with, and I made it abundantly clear to them that 37 Avenue will never be used. And that is the concern in one of their, the last, I think it’s the next to the last paragraph on the front page of that. There’s a reason that I wouldn’t use it. And I’m not sure if I’m going to insult somebody but most of the time that road is impassable anyway. And that’s why I will not be planning on using it. Well, not only for that th reason, I had no reason to use 37 Avenue. So that this actual letter here when I had the meeting a 100 percent of the people thought that this was a fantastic idea. This really shocked me when I seen this stuff here. Okay, next one. KERN: Anything else you’d like to add? (Commissioner Au arrived at this time, 9:23 a.m.) HEGARTY: No, not really. I just feel personally myself that if we are denied, you’re denying me if it happens, that I can get over. But if you look at the majority of these people that are sitting behind me, these are the people that actually want these services, you will be denying them. Thank you. KERN: Thank you. Are there any questions for the applicant? Seeing none, you may have a seat. Thank you. And just for the record, Commissioner Dean Au is present. Good morning, Dean. AU: Good morning. KERN: Okay, we’re going to do public testimony now. And, again, it’s three minutes per testifier. And I’m going to apologize in advance for messing up anyone’s name, cause it happens. I’m going to call up, starting with the first four, and then we’ll do three after that. There are seven people signed up right now to testify. Steve Bilecz -? BILECZ: Bilecz? KERN: Bilecz, thank you. Tony Galimba and Robin Benedict. Actually there are only six signed up to testify. So we’ll do three at a time. So if those three could please come forward and have a seat at the table. And I will start by swearing you all three in. Could you please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth today before the Windward Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: I do. KERN: Okay, very good. Before you begin, I need your name and area in which you live, and then the time will start. And we have the timer right here. So we’ll start with Steve -. BILECZ: Bilecz. KERN: Bilecz, thank you. BILECZ: I need this? KERN: Yes, please use your microphone. 4 EXHIBIT A BLIECZ: My name is Steve Bilecz. I live on Uilani Street in Ainaloa. I know Mr. Hegarty as a friend, and also I do the landscape for him on a piece of property. I am for this, not the reason because I work for Mr. Hegarty, cause I will actually lose property and lose some monies in my own pocket. I would like on a personal level instead of driving to Pahoa and Woodland Center, I don’t know how many of you are familiar with that, I’d rather be able to pickup small items somewhere convenient to me. I know there are issues. There’s trash, noise and traffic. The traffic is what it is because when you’re driving to Pahoa it’s still the same amount of traffic. The trash I know Mr. Hegarty is really particular about when I do the property to make sure I pick up the trash. And also the noise, there is always going to be noise with any type of business like this. And I would assume that there would be some kind of a buffer between that and the properties behind him. Pretty much all I really have to say about is that I’m just for it, the convenience. And thank you for listening. KERN: Thank you. Are there any questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you. Tony Galimba, name and area you represent, or if you represent the association, that’s fine, too. GALIMBA: Thank you very much, Commissioners and Director. My name is Tony Galimba and I am the president for Ainaloa Community Association. I represent 3500 lot owners in our subdivision. And with regards to a convenience center, you know, there are quite a bit of monies involved as far as the Puna Development Community Association planning. And now we are revisiting against the common conclusions of that plan. No. 1 this road, Ainaloa Boulevard, is not, it is not a standard road. It will not handle the traffic. We have already done environmental impact studies of which we passed on to the County indicating the problem, problematic risk of the traffic when the County took over the road. On top of it too we have mail boxes there. We have a playground across the street. The playground is an alcohol free zone. We’re concerned about alcohol being sold at a convenience mart. So it’s not just convenient for the elderly of which this is purportedly the claim or the people that have limited resources. But if alcohol is available, there’s going to be consumption in our park which is an alcohol free zone, and we set that up as a safe place for our children. That will be ignored if this is passed. We also have a volunteer fire department of which I was a part of establishing for our association. With regards to the environmental impact study and also an engineer’s study on the traffic pressures on this Boulevard, and consistently right across the street and sharing that road with the proposed project -. We have ingress and egress to that fire station on a lateral road to avoid the possible risk of collision with our emergency vehicles. Also, we have a board member that owns a property directly across from the proposed site, and he has had vehicles drive onto his property in the past. Now alcohol, additional traffic, ingress and egress, looking at the photograph in the exhibit, the driveway is directly across from his house again. There’s nothing here that mitigates that risk. Certified kitchens, we have to have water, and it cannot be catchment water to be run off of. So I would just ask -. KERN: Thank you. GALIMBA: Thank you very much. KERN: Thank you. Any questions for the testifier? I have a quick question regarding to the blue outlined area where you, where Ainaloa has its proposed village center. Was that actually agreed to by the Ainaloa Association, or was it drawn by the planner that originally did the Puna CDP? GALIMBA: Actually where, from what it was described that was the Puna CDC (sic). Actually Ainaloa set that property aside; and we have another property as well for community growth that we set aside when we established our association. That is set up for future community growth. It was actually set aside at the end of 5 EXHIBIT A Ginger Lane for a police substation of which we have offered to the County, they did not want it. We originally offered itmto the Fire Department, they did not want it. It is also designed for a school. Because already if we go by HUD rules as far as development, we have over 1300 homes in our subdivision, and we have to have a school. KERN: Okay, I guess I’ll -. Is there any plan for any commercial development on either one of those parcels that would be outside of the school, or park, or community center, or anything like that? Is there any plan? GALIMBA: There’s no plan; and we oppose any commercial development other than for a school or fire -. KERN: Yeah. Okay, thank you. Any other questions? Yes, Commissioner Gonzales. GONZALES: Yes. So the park is behind the mail boxes, across the street from the proposed site? GALIMBA: That is correct. GONZALES: And a lot of children? Is it a big park, I mean -? GALIMBA: Yeah, it’s, it’s a busy park. We have, football teams will be coming in this next year. You know, we also rent the facility out for social events as well. But the, I would say the youth park is directly across there with all the playground equipment, right across from where the parking would be at the mailboxes. GONZALES: Thank you. KERN: Any other questions? Seeing none, thank you very much. Robin Benedict, use your microphone, and name and area in which you live and then you’ve got three minutes. BENEDICT: Hi, my name is Robin Benedict and I live in the Ainaloa Subdivision about two miles up from the main road. And I personally have a disabled person and senior citizens in my household. So the idea of having this convenience store with a certified kitchen and Mr. Hegarty making free of charge delivery of prepared meals at a low cost and groceries delivered for free is ideal for my household. I want to be the voice of the disabled and the seniors in our community. And I took the liberty of looking at the demographics of the 2010 census. And if you look at that you’ll notice that Ainaloa is a growing community with about, at that time 3,000 residents, 1,005 homes in that area, 15.32 percent of which are senior citizens. And a lot of them are represented here today. And it’d be a disgrace if you would not allow this convenience store to be built for them, not only for them but for also the community. If you look at what was presented in the back of me, it’s right on the main drive. It’s right across the mail boxes. It’s a traffic area that’s normally used. If you look at some of the testimony that came in from the Police Department and what they thought as far as crime, as far as traffic, it was no impact, if you look at the paperwork that came in. And looking at what the President said about the development that they’re planning to put up which wasn’t even approved by the Association, it’s really inconvenient, inaccessible to the community to go further up and into another residential area down the street. This is a convenient location right across from the mail boxes. I also had concerns about alcohol and that kind of stuff; and I had a conversation with Mr. Hegarty. He had this type plans. He had no plans for selling alcohol at that store. Also, I had the opportunity, cause I was concerned, I went to the Orchidland Association meeting last month; and at that time I witnessed Mr. Hegarty laying out th what he wanted to do in that area. I know that there are concerns about the 37 Avenue being used. It’s a road that’s in disrepair. Personally, my home is about 2 miles from the main road. My senior citizen doesn’t drive. She doesn’t, she’ll get to the store if I take her. She doesn’t have transportation so the idea for her of getting meals and getting groceries delivered is ideal, and I’m pretty sure to a lot of these other senior citizens here also. 6 EXHIBIT A Addressing the concern that, I want to just say it really fast before I run out of time, but about water. I know I looked at the detailed plans for Mr. Hegarty and he has, I know, not water catchment, but he’s going to be having water trucked in on a regular basis as far as from the County. So there’s going to be somebody that is bringing in the water because there is no current running water that’s hooked up. But that’s acceptable because he’s not going to be using catchment water. I had the opportunity to look at the special permit application that Mr. Hegarty had submitted. And so a lot of these archaeological studies, all those things that he has been doing over the last four years had been done. So I would really appreciate -. KERN: Thank you. Thank you. Time is up. Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you. You may have a seat. Okay, Dorothy Schlother. SCHLOTHEN: Schlothen. KERN: Schlother. SCHLOTHEN: Schlothen. KERN: Schlothen. SCHLOTHEN: Schlothen. KERN: Got it. You may come up and have a seat. SCHLOTHEN: Well, I didn’t sign up to speak. KERN: Okay, your name is on the list. SCHLOTHEN: Oh. KERN: Okay. Elena Quila, come up and have a seat if you’d like to testify. Ron Dugow. DUGON: Over here. KERN: Come up and have a seat to testify. And Kilhoffer, come up and have a seat. Can I get all of you, you three, to raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth today before the Windward Planning Commission? TETIFIERS: I do. KERN: Okay, and we will start with Elena. Give me your name and area in which you live and then you may begin. QUILA: Okay. I’m Elena Quila, I live at Ainaloa Subdivision, it’s on Silver Oak Drive. It’s close to that property that, for the Mr. Hegarty. I’m, it’s 3, 3 blocks, maybe about half a mile something, cause Leilani and Silver Oak Drive, the second street to that. And I don’t have against Mr. John Hegarty for the convenience store. I have two young kids, I have 15 and 17, but I don’t have any against to start up for the store because it’s very convenient to us to have emergency kind of need, that we need. So I agree to have the convenience store. KERN: Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you very much. Ron Dugow. 7 EXHIBIT A DUGON: Dugon. KERN: Dugon. Okay. DUGON: You hear me? KERN: Dugon, it’s on. DUGON: Okay. KERN: Just give me your name and area in which you live, and then your three minutes will begin. DUGON: Okay, Ron Dugon. I live in upper Ainaloa, about three miles up. And I’ve been there for many years, and I kind of like it up there. And I’m for the convenience store because, for several reasons. I didn’t plan on saying anything here today but I’ve been listening to people. And one of the reasons I’d like to have it is because you can, easy to run down there and get something that you need and go back home, instead of taking your life in your hands at the intersection at the bottom of Ainaloa, which is what you do. KERN: Can you hold the microphone a little closer? Just closer to your mouth, and it’ll work. DUGON: I was saying that I’d rather have that convenience store close by so that I don’t have to go down and take my life in my hands every time I hit the bottom of Ainaloa at that intersection -- that they’ve been supposedly working on for years and they keep, you know, surveying it but nothing ever gets done. So it’d be really convenient that way. Cause the other store is down the road about four miles or three miles, somewhere around in there. And so it’d be safer that way. And I don’t think it’s going to increase much more traffic coming up Ainaloa because I don’t think people are going to drive up from Paradise Park to go to Ai -, you know, Wiki Wiki sub -, the one at the Ainaloa. They go to the Orchidland, you know. And those roads, if you take the back roads to Orchidland, they’re all shot. You know, they’re pot holed, muddied, and everything like that. So that’s not feasible driving down that way either. So it’s kind of hard. And the meals for the, you know, indigent people that are, you know, can’t get out of the house, don’t have cars, a lot of people down there don’t have cars -- they ride around with bicycles and walking and what not -- I think it’d be really convenient. And I don’t think it poses any danger to that park because the mailboxes are set up on concrete, and they have a big building. I don’t think anybody is going to run across the street from the store and, you know, run into the playground or anything. I think it’s pretty well protected. And I just think, and that property that the Association says they’re going to develop is basically abandoned properties. It has been up there for years. And as you’ve heard nobody wants to do anything with it. So it’s not going to go anywhere soon, you know. So I don’t know how long you have to wait for something, to do something up there. And as far as being 3500 residents that they represent, there are 3500 residents, you know, that Ainaloa represents. But that’s, not every resident has the same opinion that the Association has. They don’t agree with that even though there are 3500 residents that live in that area that own places. These are not renters, these are owners. So I just wanted to say that, you know, I’m favor of it and sooner the better. And I know Hagerty. We don’t always agree on everything. We’ve been, sometimes been to County Council against each other. But on this, on this particular project and his ability to put it through for the people in that area, I think it’s a great idea. And I just want to say that I’m all for it. You know, I hope that, you know, like I said, that sort of thing where somebody said they didn’t -. KERN: Thank you. 8 EXHIBIT A DUGON: Okay. KERN: Thank you very much. DUGON: Okay, OKAY. KERN: Any questions for the testifier? Seeing none, thank you. You may have a seat. Killhoffer, give me your name and area in which you live and then your three minutes will begin KILLHOFFER: Randy Killhoffer, I live in Ainaloa. And I apologize right off the bat. I normally avoid public speaking like the plague. Okay, I’m a volunteer fire fighter and I drive the fire truck. I’m one of the many drivers, actually there are three of us. I’ve got enough trouble getting the fire truck down that road at times, and I’ve got a red light and sirens. There’s too much traffic in that area, simply put. We’ve got the Longhouse, all the activities there. We have post office boxes there, they’ve got to come there to get it. And there are times during the day in front of that park where it’s stacked up and they’re waiting on the road to get a spot in the parking lot. We’ve got like 13, 14 parking spots out there. And it’s just congested too much. Now you want to add something more, or someone does. Everybody is going to blame you. I really don’t think we can afford more traffic there. Put it someplace else you’d want to. But right there in front of that park with the traffic that’s already there, which is going to be there, it’s not getting better cause more and more people are coming into the subdivision -- we have more and more people trying to get a letter box there, and it’s the only spot to get one -- it just isn’t all going to fit. And like I said they gave me a red light and sirens, and I have to wait. And it’s not all the time, don’t get the wrong idea. But there are times when it’s just too congested. And if you add a liquor store that’s really going to help. Thank you. KERN: Thank you. Any questions for the testifier? SCHLOTHEN: I don’t have a question. I just want a statement -. KERN: If you’d like to do that, your name is on the list, and I’ll have you come up. And I’ll swear you in, and everything else. If there’s no questions for Mr. Killoffer, then -. PUBLIC: I have. KERN: From the Commissioners, sorry. I guess when I asked for questions right now, it’s to my fellow Commissioners. Do you swear to tell the truth today before the Windward Planning Commission? SCHLOTHEN: Yes, I do. KERN: Please use your microphone. And give me your name and area you live, and then you have three minutes. SCHLOTHEN: My name is Dorothy Schlothen, and I live on Paradise Drive in Ainaloa. I’m 86 years old and I, driving is really getting more and more stressful for me. So, you know, having, and especially driving into town, even into Pahoa. So something, you know, a convenience store would be really appreciated by me. And I have never, never had a problem parking my car there in front of the mail boxes. I’ve never seen any great congestion there. That’s, oh, let’s see, I’m all for it. KERN: Okay, Any, thank you for your testimony. Any questions? Seeing none, thank you. Have a seat. Okay, anybody else wants to testify, now is the time. You’re the applicant -. 9 EXHIBIT A HEGARTY: What is that? KERN: You’re the applicant, so -. HEGARTY: Oh, okay. All right. KERN: If you did have something that you wanted to add briefly that you didn’t, come up. HEGARTY: Hi. I’m John Hegarty again. I don’t think I’m going to need this. KERN: Yes, you do. HEGARTY: Oh. okay. KERN: For us, thanks. HEGARTY: I’ve heard this comment over and over about traffic. Now I believe you people have the documents from the Police Department who I presume would be more expert that any of the responses that are not in that particular line of work. The Captain from the Police Department for Puna, they done a survey and felt that there would be no major change in our traffic as we have it now. And somebody keeps beating this around the bush, and I wonder what has made them experts. That’s all I have to say. KERN: Being that you’re there, I have a quick question for you. Do you plan to sell alcohol in your convenience store? HEGARTY: I’ve never planned to selling anything at this particular time because I need to get past you people. KERN: Well, if you did -. HEGARTY: And if you do approve it, I would have to say to you more than likely no. KERN: Okay. HEGARTY: And that’s as far as I can go. I’m not a lawyer. If there’s people that come up and what not, and I would have to consider it; and if this is a service, then I might have to provide it. But this person over here, the Ainaloa President, is concerned about his park and what not; and I will make it a point that anybody that purchases alcohol if I did sell it and they tried to consume it in a park area they would be notified that they will no longer be welcomed as customers in that convenience store. KERN: Thank you. Any questions while Mr. Hegarty is up here? AU: Mr. Chair? KERN: Commissioner Au. AU: Question about your egress for traffic. HEGARTY: My what? th AU: Your egress, your in and out of your property. Have you ever considered coming in and out on 37? 10 EXHIBIT A HEGARTY: I’m sorry, I’m not getting you. th AU: Okay, on 37 Street have you considered having your in and out of your property off of that road? HEGARTY: No. AU: No, you never considered that? HEGARTY: No. AU: And what’s the reason why? HEGARTY: Why, and I believe I mentioned it without beating it to death that I consider that road at a lot of times -. Well, let me put it this way, if I have a fairly decent car I would not use the road, and I don’t see why anybody else should have to use it because of me. Now I did offer many years ago to the Orchidland Association, but those people have all been changed and have passed away or whatever, that I would help maintain that stretch of road if they would like me to. And the then president of the association said to me, “Mr.Hegarty, I would not advise you to offer that.” And I said, “Reason why?” He said, “Well, it could be construed as a bribe.” And I went, “Oh.” So I never did bring it back up again. No, I have no intention of using th 37. Okay. KERN: Any other questions? Seeing none, thank you. HEGARTY: No? I’m good. KERN: You can have a seat. HEGARTY: Thank you. KERN: You just got your seat stolen. HEGARTY: Hello? KERN: Okay, so testimony, public testimony has concluded. We now come to this great time of land use of decision-making. And the way it works is we really can’t get into a discussion until we have a motion or the motion has been made and seconded, and then we actually get into discussion about pros or cons or how we feel about it. It’s kind of challenging as a Commission to do that. I’d really just like to start having the discussion right now, but there are parliamentary procedures. We don’t do that. So I need a motion from somebody. Don’t everybody jump at once. Commissioner Ishibashi? ISHIBASHI: Okay. In regards to applicant John Hegarty, special use permit 12-132, I make a motion that we deny this application. KERN: Is there a second? GONZALES: I’ll second. KERN: Okay, well, this leaves us, moves us into discussion. So discussion? Commissioner Ishibashi. ISHIBASHI: See, I’m all for jobs, I’m all for the convenience of our elderly. But I think this is kind of premature. I don’t think we’re ready to have the facility in that location. Commissioner Au brought up one 11 EXHIBIT A th good suggestion if we can get on 37, but that’s one kind of bad road to even try and redesign this thing. But I think this project is premature. We have the convenience store across the street down by Paradise. I believe we approved one on that side, but it was already in existence. And this construction, new construction, would cause -. And, again, I do believe it’ll increased traffic and safety concerns. So that’s why I oppose this. KERN: Any other discussion? Commissioner Gonzales? GONZALES: Yeah, it’s not up to us to -? We can’t put a restriction on him selling alcohol? KERN: Absolutely we can. GONZALES: We can? KERN: This is a special use permit. It’s one of the beauties of a special use permit, is we can make conditions that are in that nature. GONZALES: Well, you know, one of my concerns would be with the loitering and the children at the park. And, you know, people are going to attend the, buy alcohol and go to the park and drink. And, you know, that is a concern to me. KERN: Okay, valid concern. Any other discussion? Commissioner Au. AU: I was a little bit disappointed with the applicant’s answer to my question as far as the egress. You know, I live in HPP and it’s a growing concern to have the in and out of your property or the in and out of your proposed application to come off the main highway, because that’s really the traffic concern. You know, I would like to see in and out of properties off of the side roads. And you know, most of you guys here or a lot of you guys here actually live in Ainaloa, right? And, you know, how you guys are going, and you guys are going to stop at every other property sometimes when people are going in and out; and that’s what causes traffic. That’s the issue here. So, you know, most of us who live in those areas, you know, I live in HPP. We want to try and get away from that. And, you know, I was a little bit disappointed with your answer. Can I call him back, Mr. Galimba. Is that -? KERN: Yeah. Yeah, Mr. Galimba, please come forward. AU: Thank you. You said you’re the Ainaloa Community Association president? GALIMBA: That is correct. AU: Okay, so when they come in front of you guys as a community association, they propose a plan to you guys. And when did this process take place? Did it start –? GALIMBA: Okay, Mr. Au, I'll answer that. To this date Mr. Haggerty has never approached us with regards to this. He has had communication with my secretary, but that is only heresy. He has never proposed this to our entire board and I have a very open relationship with my board of directors so that we can discuss all of these different issues. And, you know, we have a walking path that we built specifically for seniors to get them off of the roads in that same park. It is not that we don't have a heart for our community. It is just sharing what we have with the limited resources that we have as an association, and being able to provide as equitably as possible for everybody. That is why we have a volunteer fire department. That is why we have Easter egg hunts, keep kids off the roads. You know, I know that everybody here in favor of this convenience store would like to paint me as a bad guy. But they don't sit at the board of directors meetings, they don't go through these gut wrenching decisions, they don't set aside reserve capital to build this park across the street and make it a safe zone. They 12 EXHIBIT A did not pay for the environmental impact study that we had foresight over 10 years ago to have because we did see these concerns coming down the road. And those environmental impact studies, I am not an expert there. That is why we pay to have this –. KERN: I'm sorry, I am going to have to keep you right directly to the point that Commissioner Au asked. GALIMBA: Okay. KERN: Did you get your question answered? AU: Yes, I did. KERN: Okay. GALIMBA: Thank you. KERN: Thank you. Any other discussion from my Fellow Commissioners? I have a few things to say, as usual. You know, land use is always a very challenging endeavor, especially when we’re in a way where we’re planning backwards with the way that Puna, you know, subdivisions had been developed in the past. It wasn’t done with a real comprehensive thought-out process of where we’re going to have future growth. There is some area there for future growth. I also had the opportunity to attend a large planning workshop on Kauai last year, and really the emphasis on planning, new planning, is to create livable, walkable communities to mitigate traffic and safety. And actually, you know, with the price of fuel going up and various needs, we don’t really have that opportunity in a lot of areas of Puna right now. And, you know, we approved one in HPP for a convenience store, so that has been kind of, precedence has been set there to a degree. We’re constantly facing the challenge in Puna with Highway 130, huge challenge. And unfortunately there’s not much we can do about it on the Council, excuse me, on the County level, other than work within our means as a County to mitigate that traffic. And one of the ways that I talked about mitigating that traffic is through some services in our area. So people that would otherwise be, maybe getting onto the highway to go pick up a small item or, you know, eggs or what you might call, don’t have to get on there anymore. I highly doubt that people will be coming from outside of the subdivision to patronize the store. That’s my opinion. And it seems to be kind of that way with other areas that I’ve seen. I would be inclined to see something like this go through with the proper restrictions myself. I know I’m not going to, I’m probably going to lose a few friends here but I do think -. You know I remember Pohoiki back in the day when Pohoiki used to be wide open. We used to go down there, pull up on the beach and do our thing. And when the Park, when they started barricading us off down there, ho, we were upset. We didn’t like it, we didn’t care for it. And, you know, we took a lot of issues with that. And time went on and I go back down there and talk to all the people that patronize Pohoiki, and they’re like this is great, the park is awesome, this is good. We have pathways there, we have showers; and I go down there with my daughter. And it’s actually, it came out to be a benefit. So sometimes at the beginning of something it doesn’t appear to be a benefit and it’s going to change the makeup of a community somewhat, can sometimes come to be a benefit in the long run with the proper conditions. One of the beauties of the special use permit is that we can put conditions on there that try to find that balance. Where if it’s a change of zone it’s harder to do those conditions and they’re open to doing what they would like to do. You know, based on Rule 6 of the, of our charter here, it is an unusual use of the land. So it does fit the criteria for a special use permit. The General Plan as I’ve always said generally doesn’t serve Puna. The CDP is challenging. There are some great elements of it and there’s also some elements of it that don’t make sense. And a lot of the time with what happened at the end with the CDP is the planning consultant that was hired lived Oahu and she made circles around different areas on where she wanted that growth to occur. That’s one of the 13 EXHIBIT A reasons why I asked Mr. Galimba there whether you guys were going to do future commercial development there, which is not. And I think that, that’s, you know, the choice of the subdivision there to make it more of a community benefit in those types of ways. The other challenge that I’ve seen is, great, you know, we have, let’s say the General Plan allowed for some expansion there. It doesn’t mean the owners actually are going to do something with it. We see that in HPP. There are some large parcels there with the boundary around it, but there’s nothing happening. And so it’s challenging to find an area where the land use pattern and the person who owns the land are in alignment. Does that make sense? A lot of times, you know, it would be great. You could do it there but the owner doesn’t want to do it. And so right here we’re at this impasse. I would personally like to see it get approved with some strict conditions on there, one of them which would be no alcohol and potentially a right-turn and, right-turn in off of Ainaloa, right turn out off of Ainaloa, with maybe th a little bit of improvement to 37 to get the traffic off of Ainaloa and then pulling in there. And obviously that would lead to some additional costs to Mr. Hegarty but it might mitigate some of the concerns. And, again, land use is not always a win-win. Many times it’s not. And so when that comes we sometimes create a lose-lose to create a win-win, if that makes sense. It’s very, very challenging. And I think it’s something that we can do to mitigate traffic on 130. And it’s a huge concern. I personally lost a friend of mine on 130 that passed away from that highway. And so that’s my take on it. If I could get any other feedback or potentially a -. GONZALES: I’d like to ask -. KERN: Commissioner Gonzales. GONZALES: If I could. KERN: Yes. Mr. Hegarty, come up, please. GONZALES: Thank you. You know, I’m a business man, too. I just, I mean honestly can you, do you think you can survive without selling alcohol? Is that something that you’re willing to -? HEGARTY: Definitely. GONZALES: You can get by on that? HEGARTY: Yes, I can. GONZALES: I mean you’d be all right with that kind of a restriction? HEGARTY: And I’ll be more than willing to do that. I don’t want to see a bunch of drunks running around the place either. But at the same time if you stop and look at it realistically men and women work extremely hard during the week, they go home and they might want to have a glass of beer or glass of wine with their spouse. I mean who are we to deny them? GONZALES: Oh, I understand that -. HEGARTY: Okay. GONZALES: You know, I might have had a beer once or twice. HEGARTY: Yeah. But we could do that, yes. 14 EXHIBIT A GONZALES: You know, if I pick up the paper one morning and read about some, you know, somebody’s tutu got mugged while out checking the mail, I -. HEGARTY: Yeah. GONZALES: You know, here it is, I’m the one making this decision. HEGARTY: Well, I mean if it’s one of the things that, you know, one of the restrictions that I need to adhere to, I’m more than willing to do that. GONZALES: Okay, very good. Thank you. HEGARTY: More than willing to do it. This is, ladies and gentlemen, this for me, I’m not a do gooder. But this is not about money. I retired twice. I can survive without doing anything. Matter of fact, my brothers tell me you’re kind of stupid at your age, what’s wrong with you. I feel that I want to do a little something back, not only take, take, take. GONZALES: Very good, thank you. HEGARTY: Yes. GONZALES: Thank you. HEGARTY: Anything else? MOSES: Yes, I’d like to make a comment. KERN: Commissioner Moses, do you want to make a comment or do you want to ask Mr. Hegarty -? MSOES: No, I don’t have a question to ask. KERN: Okay, Mr. Hegarty, you may have a seat. Commissioner Moses. MOSES: But I’d like to concur with things that Chair Kern has said, and I feel the same way he does. But I’d also like to say that Mr. Hegarty will be a good doer if the restrictions are made, which is -. The only way that I support it is that there is no alcohol being sold there. So with that said, you would be a good doer for all those who are in need of your service there, the elderly and those, minimizing people going on the road to elsewhere to get the things that they need most. So I concur and I would support it with that restriction. KERN: Any other discussion? Seeing none. So we have a current motion on the floor to deny that has been seconded. So if the maker of the motion would like to withdraw it, we can do that; otherwise we need to vote on that right now. And if it gets approved, the motion would be made, it would be denied. If it does not get approved, and we deny that motion, then we can have a new motion to either approve it with conditions, defer it, continue it, etc. So with that being said -. It looks like Commissioner Ishibashi is -. Commissioner Ishibashi? ISHIBASHI: Okay, we’re willing to open discussion and make the amendments. Yes, I’m willing to withdraw my motion and entertain some, open discussion on trying to amend the conditions of this special use permit. KERN: Okay. 15 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: So I’m willing to withdraw my motion at this time. KERN: Okay, thank you, Commissioner Ishibashi. Do we want to take a minute to look at potential conditions, or should we get a motion on the floor and then look at conditions? What would be most appropriate? LUGO: I would suggest you get a motion on the floor. KERN: Okay, is there a motion? AU: Mr. Chair? KERN: One second, Commissioner Au. Okay. Okay, so if we are making a motion to approve we need to have the reason based on the criteria of Rule 6, which would be such as an unusual use of the land. So, Commissioner Au? AU: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move to approve a special permit for applicant John Hegarty (SPP 12-132) with conditions that we’re going to set forth; and the reason being for an unusual situation. KERN: So would you say in your findings it’s an unusual use but a reasonable use? Is that -? AU: Yes, yes. KERN: Okay, is there a second? MOSES: Second. KERN: Okay. Discussion? We’re going to actually have our Corporation Counsel speak to this for one second to clarify the motion. LUGO: If the Commission is going to be voting to approve the special permit, in the motion there should be a statement of findings that the use is, you know, consistent with the criteria that you’re required to consider under your Rule 6, under Section 205, the Hawaii Revised Statutes. So you can look at the orange sheet from the Planning Department, and specifically look at the items in bold. The Commission needs to make findings related to those criteria. KERN: Just a quick point of, potentially what we could do is direct the Planning Department, Planning staff, to work on a recommendation of approval, and then have them work out some of the conditions with what we’ve been talking about. And then we continue the application to the next, next month’s meeting, which would give time to kind of hash things out and not be rushing to a, to a decision right at this time, being that it’s a sensitive issue. And I think the conditions are going to really play a big, big effect on this. Would you like to add anything to that, Maija or Daryn? ARAI: We’ll be able to prepare something for the Commission’s consideration at its next meeting scheduled for th June 7. But we do need some basic understandings or details that will help us in developing or constructing the recommendation report. Mr. Chair, you were eloquent, you did speak regarding the CDP, consistencies with the CDP. That could be utilized, as well as testimony that was offered today, at today’s hearing. So that all could be used to help generate a draft recommendation for your review. KERN: Okay. Thank you, Daryn. Okay, if the Commission is inclined to continue this, I’d ask that the person who made the motion, Commissioner Au, withdraw the motion for now and we move to a motion to continue. 16 EXHIBIT A And with that motion made of continuing it we could bring up some discussion to talk about conditions that we’d like to see. And for the sake of process that would probably make the most sense. Commissioner Au? AU: I’d like to withdraw my motion. KERN: Okay, and -. AU: And -. KERN: Move to continue? AU: And we move to, move to -. KERN: To continue? Same thing, continuing or deferring is relatively similar, but I was told by Corporation Counsel before that defer is actually not the proper terminology we should be using. To continue would be better. th AU: Okay, well, I move to continue to our next meeting on June 7. KERN: Is there a second? MOSES: Second. KERN: Okay. Discussion? AU: Okay, discussion. KERN: Commissioner Au, okay. AU: You know, a lot of us here want that store, you know, and we surely need that store in Ainaloa. So, you know, let’s come up with some conditions; and I’m sure the Planning Department is going to come up with some good ones. My pet peeve is the ingress. I don’t know how it’s going to be proposed and how we would do it. Because, you know, a right-turn in/right-turn out of Ainaloa would actually cause traffic down the road cause everybody wants, if, if they want to go back down then they’re going to have to turn around somewhere else. So, you know, I mean, -. KERN: Not necessarily. They’d be able to go up Ainaloa, right turn in, and then they’d have to actually exit through 37th. AU: Thirty seven. KERN: To either go right or left out of there. Or if they were going to continue up Ainaloa, somebody is coming home, they’d go up Ainaloa, hit the store and then come back out, and there’d be a right-turn only back out to Ainaloa. AU: Right, right, right. Well, I’d be very interested to see what it would look like. You know, a right turn in/right turn out would make sense. But, you know, I’m just worried about the cars coming down and they want to go back onto Pahoa Road. KERN: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Au. Any other discussion? Commissioner Ishibashi. 17 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Brother Chair. I believe this store is a necessity for the community. I respect our kupunas, our senior citizens, with the right to have, to provide their needs, the necessities in their homes and get off the road. I think that’s real important. So, yeah, we, and I said it’s just premature. We have to get some assurances in there how we can get this project moving. And I think Commissioner Au’s recommendation on th the 37 Street is something Brother Hegarty you have to look at and try see how we can mitigate that. So it’s good that we can look at this, get a second bite at this apple and hear this next month. I think that’s good. KERN: Thank you, Commissioner. ISHIBASHI: Well, I get one other problem. With one store we cannot mandate not selling the alcohol. I don’t know how we can get over that one. I like see if that going happen. I can’t – if the community asks for alcohol, we’re going to stop that store from selling? That’s what I like know, too. If we get that much latitude, wow, we’re powerful. Yeah? That’s mean. KERN: Mean, huh? ISHIBASHI: So just wondering on that. So I would love to see what happens in the recommendation from the Planning Department. Thank you. KERN: Thank you, Commissioner Ishibashi. Just to clarify the motion, Commissioner Au asked to continue the meeting to next month’s meeting; and we’re going to direct the Planning staff to develop conditions that could be imposed for the recommendation and approval. Is that correct? AU: Yes, that’s correct. KERN: Okay. Madam Director? LEITHEAD TODD: Thank you. Since my staff has to work on proposed conditions I want to bring your attention to page 1 of Mr. Hegarty’s application. Cause I would assume that if there’s a motion to approve that th is subsequently going to be done by the Commission at the meeting on June 7, that we would be following some of the specifics that he applied for. In his application he had, you know, 4000-square foot structure, 1280- foot, square foot, convenience store. He had a certified kitchen, office warehouse space and bathroom accessory. He had hours of operation as 6:30 a. m. to 8:00 p.m., and had specific numbers of parking stalls. So I assume that we would be following some of that in the conditions that we would be applying to it. And I th guess one of the questions I have is we have input from the Orchidland Association, that since 37 Avenue is private, unpaved, and part of Orchidland, that if any egress or access is going to be used on that street that there th be a requirement that the Applicant pave 37 up to the point of ingress and egress, ingress and egress, anyway -. And so that would be one of things that we would be looking at. The Commission has expressed concern over alcohol sales because of the proximity to the neighborhood park. So I would assume that we would be looking at that; and we will be double checking with Corporation Counsel as to the authority of the Commission. But it’s my understanding that in order to sell liquor you’ve got to have a liquor license, so that’s a whole separate license. And if there’s a recommendation for the Planning Department against granting the liquor license because of conditions of the Special Permit, I assume that that would be something the Liquor Commission would follow. But if there is anything else that you specifically would like my staff to take a look at in terms of proposed conditions, you know, I think you should look at the application and perhaps state something. If there’s anything in addition to the specifics of what he’s asking, the hours of operation, parking, the ingress and egress, as well as the no alcohol, then it would be useful for me to hear that now so that staff could take note of that. 18 EXHIBIT A KERN: Thank you, Madam Director. I personally think that I covered a lot of my, my issues. So further discussion for any Commissioners or is there anything else you’d like to see added to that? Commissioner Gonzales. GONZALES: Thank you. You know, I’m not against the selling of alcohol. You know, it’s a concern of mine -. Maybe, I don’t know, she’s asking for a feedback. Maybe security, maybe somebody that has to, you know, look over the park in the mailbox area, certain hours of operation, could be a stipulation if the alcohol sales were to be allowed, just saying. KERN: No, that’s reasonable. I think this will give -. GONAZALES: Yeah. KERN: I think this will give the Applicant and the Department a chance to kind of massage things in a way that might kind of work things out a little bit. And then we’ll get the final chance to, you know, adjust, give it the final adjustments in the event it does go forward. Any other discussion? Any other recommendations? Seeing none, let’s take the vote to continue. COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The motion before you is to continue this application to the June meeting. Commissioner Au? AU: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Gonzales? GONZALES: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Ishibashi? ISHIBASHI: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Moses? MSOES: Aye. COTTLE: And Mr. Chair? KERN: Aye. COTTLE: Motion passes five-zero. thth KERN: Okay. So it’ll be continued to June 7. Let’s see everyone back here on June 7 most likely. Thank you very much. The discussion ended at 10:22 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary Windward Planning Commission 19 EXHIBIT A