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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-11-07 Windward Transcript -Greenlaw WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I HEARING TRANSCRIPT NOVEMBER 7, 2013 MICHAEL AND CYNTHIA A regularly advertised meeting on the application of GREENLAW (SPP 13-153) was called to order at 9:40 a.m. in the County of Hawai‘i, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i, with Chairman Wallace Ishibashi presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Wallace Ishibashi, Ronald Gonzales, Charles Heaukulani, Gregory Henkel, Myles Miyasato, Raylene Moses, and Stephen Ono STAFF PRESENT: Margaret Masunaga (Deputy Corporation Counsel), Duane Kanuha (Planning Director), Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager), Maija Cottle (Staff Planner), Jeff Darrow (Staff Planner), and Sharon Nomura (Secretary) And approximately 63 people from the public in attendance APPLICANTS: MICHAEL AND CYNTHIA GREENLAW (SPP 13-153) Application for a Special Permit to allow the establishment of a satellite learning and education center (school) and water catchment tank business on 4 acres of land situated within the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property consists of four lots and is located at the very end th of 19 Avenue on the west (mauka) side of the road, approximately 2,200 feet southeast of the th intersection of 19 Avenue and Maku‘u Drive, Hawaiian Paradise Park Subdivision, Puna, Hawai‘i, TMK: 1-5-021: 054, 055, 056 and 057. ISHIBASHI: Okay, moving on to Item 4, Michael and Cynthia Greenlaw. Maija. COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. ISHIBASHI: Good morning. COTTLE: Good morning. The next item on the agenda is a special permit request for Michael and Cynthia Greenlaw. The subject properties are located in the Puna district in the Hawaiian Paradise Park Subdivision. And you can see on the map here you have the Keaau-Pahoa Road running in a north-south direction on the left side of the slide. You have Kaloli Drive running off th towards the ocean, Paradise, and Maku‘u. The subject properties are located at the end of 19 Avenue. And you can see four parcels here outlined in black. The current zoning of the property is Agricultural 1-acre which is shown in the light green. Now the property just to the Pahoa side is a very large State-owned parcel that’s just forest land. 1 EXHIBIT A This is a closeup view. Again, you can see Maku‘u Drive at the top left corner of the slide. And th you have 19 Avenue; and the four parcels that are the subject of the request are at the end on the mauka side. The General Plan designation for these properties is Rural. And the Rural designation allows community-type uses, as well as commercial uses that serve the immediate residents or the agricultural businesses or operations within the immediate area. And this is the Puna CDP map for HPP. Again, the Keaau-Pahoa Road on the left side of the slide; and then you have Maku‘u Drive coming off of there towards the sea. The subject property is located right around this area here where the red dot is at the bottom of the slide. So you can see, you’ve probably read our recommendation and you know that we are encouraging, the Puna rd CDP and the General Plan encourages light industrial uses be located along 33 Avenue near Maku‘u; and that’s this location right here. There are several baseyards for water businesses, rd water hauling businesses, as well as auto repair businesses along 33. Now this is an aerial photo of the subject properties. You can see the large State parcel on the Pahoa side. The map is actually a little bit off. This structure here is located entirely on the State property, and a portion of the structure as well is located on the State property. So the property consists of four one-acre lots that are adjacent to each other. And you can see there are residents located behind the properties and on the other side as well. So the applicants are requesting to allow the establishment of a satellite learning and education center, or school. This is a satellite school of HAAS (Hawai‘i Academy of Arts and Sciences) which has their main campus in Pahoa. And I think most of the members on this Commission also approved a special permit for Shady Grove about a year ago. You may be familiar with that. That was also a satellite of HAAS. So this is a very similar school. They’re also requesting a use permit for the water catchment tank business on the four acres. So as a little background, both of these businesses, as well as the applicant’s vacation rental business, have been operating on the property for I’d say more than 20 years. So they’re coming in now to legitimize those uses that have been existing for quite some time. Specifically they’re asking for up to 44 students from kindergarten to grade 6, and the school is known as Paradise Hui Haumana, and then the water catchment tank and pool services business known as Paradise Pools. So this is the applicant’s site plan. It’s an actual survey of their property, so it depicts the exact location of the structures. You can see there’s a water tank here located on the adjacent State property. That other structure that was in the aerial photo, the applicants have already removed that structure. So the only structures remaining on the State property as far as I know are the water tank here and then a portion of this structure here, which is the garage and storage building that’s used for the applicant’s water tank catchment business. So you have the water tank catchment business here on this property, this is lot, I’m sorry, Parcel 57. There’s a pool located in this area that straddles these two properties. And then in this general location there’s a large 2 EXHIBIT A tennis court. The structure here is a dwelling that’s used as a vacation rental, and then Parcel 55. th We have another structure near 19 Avenue that is used as a vacation rental. And then this structure here is used for the school use, as well as the structure here. And then the applicant’s residence is located on Parcel 55 in this area. They have a garage structure for their personal th vehicles, as well as another vacation rental, closer to 19 Avenue. th These are some site photos of the property. This is on 19 Avenue looking towards Pahoa side. So the State parcel would be at the very end of the road here. And the applicant’s properties are on the right side. This is their first driveway that goes to their personal residence and one of the vacation rentals. And then this is a view of the second driveway that has access to another one of th their vacation rentals and the school. And then this is a view of 19 Avenue looking back towards Hilo, with the property on the left side. And this was the first driveway going towards their personal residence. This is a view looking towards the school. You can see parking way in the background here, and one of the vacation rentals on the left side. So you can see that their access is gated. This is a photo taken from the driveway that goes from the pool business to the school property. And so the tennis court is on the left side, the pool is on the left side off the photo, and then this is the parking area for the school also on the left, left side of the driveway. And this is a photo of one of the school structures. This is the structure that was permitted originally as an exercise room. And then this is the other structure being used for the school that was originally permitted as a dwelling. You can see they both have covered outside areas as well. And then this is a photo of the applicant’s residence. Obviously these structures aren’t part of the applicant’s request. I’m just trying to give you a feel for what the property looks like. This is the tennis court, the pool, the pool is fully fenced. And the applicant has represented that the students do not use the pool or the tennis court. Those are both just for personal, their own personal use. This is one of the vacation rentals, another vacation rental, and I think this is a storage structure. The applicant can correct me if I’m wrong. Now this is a photo of the Paradise Pool business. You can see they have “Paradise Water” on their water tank here; and then a sign on the storage-garage structure. And this view is looking towards the State property in the back. Another view of the storage-garage structure for the pool business; and then this is the other side. So this is standing towards the State property looking back towards the business. So this area generally in here was the portion that was encroaching onto State property and into the property setback. And then you can see the water tank that’s completely on the State property, all the way in the back here. 3 EXHIBIT A Now this is the structure that the applicant removed. They were using it to store their trucks. So that has since been removed. The Director is recommending approval of the request for the satellite learning and education center with the conditions that we provided to you; and the Director is recommending denial of the request for the water catchment and pool services use. And the reason that’s, the denial, the request we’re recommending denial on is because it’s not consistent with the General Plan and the Puna CDP. This is similar to the Diamond special permit that the Commission just reviewed. These are the same reasons basically, that we’re encouraging or recommending based on the plans rd that light industrial businesses be located along 33 Avenue. The clientele for this particular business is more of a regional-serving business. It’s not just focused on Hawaiian Paradise Park residents. And, as I mentioned, both plans recommend locating light industrial uses that serve a rdrd regional purpose onto 33 Avenue. One of the main reasons is that 33 Avenue is paved so it can th handle the truck traffic; and 19 Avenue is not, it’s a gravel road as you saw. th And you did receive in your package, there was one letter from a resident that lives on 19 Avenue that did have concerns with the paved road because of dust and wear and tear. And that’s the end of my presentation. I do want to bring your attention to some correspondence that we received this morning. You should have two letters from John Rossette, one letter from Council Member Zendo Kern, one letter from Dave Koch, a letter from Catherine Akerberg, a letter from Senator Russell Ruderman. th And from the applicant’s representative Ted Hong you should have a letter dated October 28 with responses to agencies comments. And this morning you should have received a packet that looks like this. This was also submitted by the applicant’s representative Ted Hong, with additional letters of support, as well as conditions that he’s recommending should the Commission decide to approve the water catchment tank business. Are there any questions? ISHIBASHI: Did they remove the garage? COTTLE: They removed one of those structures. One of the two structures that was being used for the water catchment tank business has been removed. ISHIBASHI: What about the tanker? Where are we at with the water tank? COTTLE: The water tank, I’m not sure. We would have to ask the applicant. ISHIBASHI: Okay. Thank you, Maija. Any questions, Commissioners? GONZALES: I have a question, Mr. Chairman. ISHIBASHI: Go ahead, Commissioner Gonzales. GONZALES: Maija, okay, so these are the conditions for the school? 4 EXHIBIT A COTTLE: School. GONZALES: And these are the conditions for the -? COTTLE: The blue paper is the conditions that the applicant is recommending for the water catchment tank business should it be approved. GONZALES: So these are the applicant’s -? COTTLE: Yes. GONZALES: Recommendation. COTTLE: The blue, the paper is the applicant’s conditions -. GONZALES: Thank you. COTTLE: Not the Departments. ONO: May I ask for clarification? ISHIBASHI: Yes, go ahead, Commissioner. ONO: Am I to understand that the students are using the facilities now at the campus? COTTLE: Yes. They have been using the facilities for at least 20 years. It started out as a home schooling operation and then it came under HAAS’s umbrella as a satellite school more recently. I don’t remember the exact year. ONO: I also noticed in the photos, my concern -. The security of the students on the campus seems to be, how should I say it, rather secluded. But a lot of the accesses into the campus without being, you can get in without being noticed. Am I correct with my assumption? COTTLE: You could ask the applicant what security measures they have. But, that there is, th there are three driveway access points from 19; and I know that two of them are gated. I’m not sure about the third near the water catchment tank business. And there is really no separation between resi -, I’m sorry, guests staying in the vacation rental structures and the school. They’re all on the same property. ONO: And the State facility, use of the storage area is also, as I noticed, is rather open through the campus. COTTLE: The pool business? 5 EXHIBIT A ONO: No. I could be wrong but the way you have trucks parked in the garage, that area, is that an open area? COTTLE: Yeah, the State property is opened. It’s not fenced. There’s no fencing, as far as I recall, between the State’s property and the applicant’s property. ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Maija. Could I have the applicant or representatives come up, please. Okay, if you could raise your right hand, please, the testifier. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter? HONG: Yes. LEE LOY: I do. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you so much. Go ahead. HONG: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Planning Commission, and Director Kanuha. My name is Ted Hong. With me from my office is Sue Lee Loy, representing the applicants, Michael and Cynthia Greenlaw. In terms of our presentation, the best description of this application that I could think of was from an Electric Light orchestra song, “It’s A Living Thing”, where the lyrics to the chorus apply directly to what the Greenlaws have created on their property, “It’s a living thing. It’s a terrible thing to lose. It’s a giving thing. What a terrible thing to lose.” And we are here this morning asking the Commission to preserve and continue the living and giving things the Greenlaws have created. With respect to our presentation, first I want to thank the Planning Director and the representatives of the Planning Department, and say that we agree with and also suggests modifications to the recommendations by the Planning Department. We circulated those, those are on the blue sheets with respect to the water catchment business. We feel that these are reasonable conditions, and certainly would like to discuss them. In terms of our presentation this morning, I’m going to ask Michael and Cynthia to talk about themselves, the schools, their business, and answer some of the Commission’s questions. Following that, I have a brief statement regarding some of the recommendations or what Maija had highlighted regarding the Puna CPD and General Plan. And I understand after that the Commission will take public testimony. And then we’d like the opportunity, obviously, to clarify and answer any concerns that come up during public testimony. So, Michael, Cynthia, would you like to, you know, talk about yourselves, and the school, the business? C. GREENLAW: Is this on? HONG: I think it’s on already. 6 EXHIBIT A C. GREENLAW: This is on. Good morning. My name is Cynthia Edwards Greenlaw. Virtually everyone calls me Auntie Cindy, and has for many years. I actually would like you to know that I’ve lived in Paradise Park for 53 years. I grew up there. It was pretty much nothing in between st Pahoa and Keaau, except our house on 31 and Paradise and pili grass. There were no services for me when I was youngster. There was no soccer field, there were no ballet lessons, there was st no piano, there was no electricity, there was no phone. I had to ride on my bike from 31 to Railroad where there was a box on the telephone pole if I needed to make a call. Even so, after college, I love Paradise Park, I chose to remain there and raise my family there. I have four children, two of them were actually born at our home that you saw a picture of in HPP. This is our home, we love it. I want more for my children. And growing up in Puna we kind of learned to create the things that we needed for ourselves; and we also need a form of livelihood. My husband and I chose to do services to our community as a way to make our living. And the services we chose to bring to the community were water, which is very much needed, and children’s activities. So 33 years ago, actually, we began providing a safe place for the children in our neighborhood. We did the things our children were interested in. We have taught gymnastics, we have taught drama, we have taught music, we have taught crafts, we have taught, we’ve coached soccer. We have done lots, and lots, and lots of academics. We did begin, as the Commissioner said, we began the homeschooling program, and a few years a back we came under the umbrella of the HAAS charter school. I feel that our reputation in the community and the accomplishments of my graduates really speak to the success of our program. We’ve had a number of valedictorians come through our program, at least one in every high school in East Hawai‘i, and some on the mainland. Many, many of my graduates have gotten full rides to prestigious colleges, like Northwestern, Princeton. A number of my students have become teachers. More than any other profession my students have chosen to become teachers. A number of those chose to teach fifth and sixth grade, which is my specialty, so I am especially proud of them. To speak to the water business, water is important in Puna. The majority of people in Puna are on catchment. Actually, today’s front page of the Tribune Herald said that rainfall is lagging once again. Puna needs more water servers, not less. Our service began in the early nineties. We’re proud that during those drought times when there’s a sense of desperation for people who want water, and sometimes it takes two weeks to schedule a service, we can do our best to help with this. Our water truck is also available during times of fire. We fought fire at our home two times right at our doorstep in Paradise Park; and our water tanks, actually including the one that is unfortunately on the State land, have been emptied by the Fire Department in times of fire; and then refilled, so that could battle those fires. I know we don’t fit the mold. We don’t fit the mold that the County plan says. My daddy actually who was a County Councilman here for many years -- some of you may remember him, he is gone now, Rick Edwards -- he always used to say that the mainland is tilted to the west and all the oddballs roll to California, and the really, really strange ones float and they pop into 7 EXHIBIT A Hawaii and settle in Puna. And, and we really fit that Puna mold. We don’t fit the light industrial mold. We’re really just a modest water service provider. There’s no manufacturing done at our site. We don’t fabricate our liners or our water tanks. We don’t store any chemicals at all. There’s no noise during the day or evening, or night. That empty warehouse that is closed is a common sight there. To let you know what kind of goes on during the day is that in the morning the days they do work -- and we have only part-time employees, and they commonly work two or three days a week, and then during the really busy times maybe four times -- they would come early in the morning at 7 and pick up supplies, and go out in our medium-sized flatbed trucks. Business is done at the customer’s sites, that’s where the water tanks are put up and serviced. And then later in the afternoon or evening they come in. They aren’t there when the children are there. One of the Commissioners was concerned about the trucks. I think you were answered, as opposed to the State land. That garage area faces the road. It’s outside of our fenced in area, and that is what encroaches on the State land. We removed that building. There’s a corner of the roof of the warehouse that goes over the line now, and the small water tank which can be removed. It’s not a permanent structure. Our gates are closed during the day. You don’t see, there’s not a lot of access to the children. They’re with us, they’re always supervised. The vacation rentals, those people are gone during the day. The children don’t sleep at our home at night, so there’s little, if any, exposure to those people. We feel our community is very safe. We feel our program is very safe. We try to be good neighbors. This is where we live. We’ve lived there for a very, very long time and there was no one else on the road when we moved in. We feel that, if anything, our property has raised the property values of our neighbors. We maintain our property in a beautiful way. We love our yard, we love it. Many of my neighbors have let us know that they moved to our street because of us, not in spite of us. We have no plans for expansion, either of the water service business or the educational center. We’re both in our mid-sixties, it’s a time of life for decrease instead of increase, although my students think I’m going to be teaching until 103. The traffic will not increase. It has been this way for a number of years and has remained steady, it actually lessened some this year. We care for our road. This is a road we drive on. For many, many years my husband has filled potholes with our equipment and our own gravel at our expense. During dry times our water truck has dropped water on the road to prevent dust, at our own expense. We do our best to minimize traffic at all moments, many of my parents will tell you this. We have a van that carries more than a third of our students to school. The parents carpool. There are children who ride their bikes to school. We even have a few children that are walking to school. Speed limits are really, really important to us. I painted signs myself. Actually the first set was so nice somebody stole them, so I painted a new set. We set our own speed limit at 10 miles an hour, even though the subdivision sets it at 15 miles an hour. We send reminders all the time and mahalos to our parents for driving slow. Sometimes my dads will come in and they have a 8 EXHIBIT A competition who can drive the slowest and like to tell me how fast they were going – “I went 5 instead of 10.” We are proud to make water accessible for fighting fire. As I mentioned we had fire rampage right toward our house twice since we’ve lived there, really seriously in1983. We’re not asking for a new business. We’re just trying to come into compliance with the zoning in the area, as was requested by the County. We did not receive a violation. We received a letter requesting compliance, and we’re doing our best to do that. We love our community. I don’t feel that we really fit that industrial complex mode, model either. We have three trucks. I think that the plan allows two, so we’re one truck over. Our closest neighbors support us. You will see and hear letters of support and testimony from the neighbors directly behind our property, directly across the street, in kitty-corner to our property, within 500 feet of our property. The Hawaiian Paradise Park Owners Association did vote unanimously to support both of our businesses. Senator Russell Ruderman wanted to be here today but he needed to be in Honolulu for the gay marriage bill, which I guess is way more important than us. Gregory Illagan, our County Council, has indicated support for both of our businesses. Many, many people here in this room, I’m sure, are in support of the things that we do. I just want to finish by saying in Puna jobs are hard to come by. It’s common for families like us to have more than one source of income to support their families. Our services, water and educational activities, and even the vacation rentals which the majority of my clients come as house guests to people in Paradise Park, have supported our family. This is our livelihood. It is how we support our family. That’s important to us. But I really truly feel that these are important and necessary services for this community that I love. And I just, you know, really plead with you to support me as well and allow me to continue to do the things that I love doing. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. M. GREENLAW: Well, that’s a tough act to follow, for sure. Anyways, I’m just going to tell you a little about my history coming here. I’m from Boston, came here in the summer of ’76 with a buddy who’s here today, Brooks Maloof. Bought a sailboat in Honolulu, fixed it up, did a crossing, almost didn’t survive. It got this way, we were trying to sail around the world. Brooks ended up here in ’79. I ended up here in January of ’80. I was a high school English teacher back in Boston. My first job here was teaching at Opihikao at Malamalama, which is located in Opihikao. That’s where I met Cindy. I had Malia, her baby, my oldest step daughter, there. And we actually did a presentation in front of the Planning Commission to support Malamalama coming to HPP. That was a long time ago. Anyhow, I started out, I built the gymnasium, now you approved the building, assembly hall. I taught gymnastics for 13 years, taught at Malamalama for a couple of years, and then wanted to get into a business, began putting up catchment tanks, bought a warehouse, used warehouse in, by the geothermal for $4,000, that building that you saw. My friends and I put it up. So we’ve just been serving, and nothing was premeditated. We don’t make a whole bunch of money. We just 9 EXHIBIT A love what we’re doing. Thank you very much. HONG: When we, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Planning Commission, when we talk about what the Greenlaws have done and that was kind of a living thing, if we look at Exhibit A to our supplement that we handed out this morning, that’s their property, and when it started out, and what it looks like. And then the second page of Exhibit A is what it recently looks like and how the community has grown. We concur with the Planning Director’s recommendation on page 1, allowing the establishment of a satellite learning center and education center in the State Land Use Agricultural District, with modifications. The first major modification is to the Planning Director’s recommendation, page 7, number 3. We’d like to remove any reference to Lot 57. So instead of four acres, we’re asking that the satellite school be allowed to operate on three acres. That would be Lots 54, 55 and 56. So where you saw that storage shed where that catchment tank was on State property, that would still continue to be there. But we want the school to operate on 3 acres and then, hopefully, the business to operate on that last acre on Lot 57. I would note that in terms of the water tanks, catchment tank, Michael tells me it can be taken down in less than a day. I mean it’s primarily there to help -. M. GREENLAW: Two hours. HONG: Two hours, okay. C. GREENLAW: It’s there for fires. HONG: Right. I was just going to say that, as Cindy had mentioned, they don’t use it, it’s actually there to help fires in the area. On page 9, mid-page, we had asked the Commission modify the Planning Director’s recommendation that would allow the Greenwells, the Greenlaws, excuse me -. C. GREENLAW: I wish. HONG: I know, to continue their water tank and pool services on Lot 57. We submitted the proposed conditions of approval that we feel will meet the operational concerns of the Planning Director. I would note what those recommendations on the blue paper reflects is a limit to and winding down of this business. We want to limit in those proposed conditions, the conditions suggested, that we’re going to limit it to three trucks. And, again, as Cindy had mentioned, the trucks leave before the schools starts and return after school ends. We also note on the application, page 5 of the application, in terms of the number of employees, we want to make it clear that we’re only asking that there be one full-time employee, that’s Michael, and four part- time employees. So that’s another difference that we wanted to highlight. The other thing is, I want to wind down what I’m talking about and limit it to more legal argument regarding the light industrial use characterization. That’s like trying to fit an octagonal 10 EXHIBIT A peg into a square hole. And why I say that is because if you look at the Zoning Code 25-1-5 at page 25-7, it talks about activities in a light industrial area that are primarily involved in the manufacture, processing, assembly, fabrication, refinement, alteration and/or other end products suitable for sale or trade, light manufacturing, processing and packaging establishments. So when you look at that definition it doesn’t really apply to what my clients are doing. It talks about if you’re going to be characterized in a light industrial zoned area that you can’t have chemicals or other substances which pose a threat to health or safety. It identifies other uses, again, that do not apply to what they’ve been doing for the last twenty some odd years. None of those identified uses in the Zoning Code at 25-1-5 in the definition of light industrial, none of that occurs or has occurred on Lot 57. The business consists of trucks going out to the homeowner’s site to do any fabrication, repair and maintenance of catchment tanks or pools. Not, it does not occur on their property. And I would also point out in Section 25-5-142 which, now specifically lists 52 permitted uses in areas zoned light industrial; and none of those 52 uses fit with what they are doing and have been doing on the property. And so what we have basically, and what we acknowledge, at the end of the day, we have a business that has been operating in the area since 1993 servicing the community whose use is now inconsistent with the Puna CDP and the General Plan. They’ve been operating without any violations and are here because of a Department of Health advisory letter. We understand and appreciate the consistency the Planning Director and Planning Department has brought to this particular recommendation. However, we’re just requesting in the modification or the recommendations that we’ve distributed this morning the opportunity to allow the business to wind down and close. In conclusion, when I began I referred to the song “It’s A Living Thing”, the school is a living thing, helping children in the community grow and develop; and the business is a giving thing, helping people in the community, like our fire department, without any cost to taxpayers and their neighbors by voluntarily putting water down the road without any cost to the association or their neighbors. And at this stage of their lives it would be a terrible thing for them and their community to lose either the school or the business. So, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Planning Commission, we thank you for your time. I understand that members of the public will be testifying; and then we’d, again, like the opportunity to discuss any concerns brought up during that discussion. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Any questions? ONO: Question. ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Ono. ONO: You were mentioning a revision of the proposal to remove1 acre with a -. But if I look at the diagram it seems as though the swimming pool is in that area that you’re asking to be permitted. HONG: That’s correct. And the swimming pool does, it’s an in-ground swimming pool. It does overflow or kind of encroach on the other lot. But, again, in terms of the school, as Cindy had 11 EXHIBIT A mentioned, or I think Maija had mentioned, the students do not use the pool, do not use the tennis court area. So they’re actually even more pushed over into the other lots. HEAUKULANI: I had a question. ISHIBASHI: Okay, Commissioner. HEAUKULANI: Ted, good morning. HONG: Good morning. HEAUKULANI: I had a couple of things. I fully support what they’re trying to do on both sides. But I had a couple of questions. The things that concern me are obviously the health, safety, welfare issues. So what I’d like to talk about are two things – the traffic and the water as it applies to fire protection. I guess the second one is a little easier to deal with. First, I want to get a clarification, and maybe the applicants can tell me. Is there a well on your property? M. GREENLAW: No. I have fire hydrants all over. So the fire hydrants, the Fire Department can access the water on their own fire fittings. So that if the catchment tank has to be filled, our water truck driver can fill up the tank. He just opens up the valve, and he can push the water into the tank. Similarly, the Fire Department can access the water with a universal thread. The Fire Department can hook up to the fire hydrant, open up the valve, and suck out water to fight fire. We’ve done dozens of these all throughout East Hawai‘i. It helps people with insurance because that way they can oblige to the insurance companies having so much water for fire fighting. So they’re not wells. C. GREENLAW: That was mislabeled. HEAUKULANI: Right, so you know what I’m looking at -. C. GREENLAW: On the surveyor’s, that surprised me too. I didn’t know that we had two wells. That would be nice. HEAUKULANI: I saw your engineer’s report with the opinion that the fire protection efforts are doable. Do we have a timeframe for -? I’m not even sure if this is an issue since there’s so much water on the property in any case. But, go ahead. LEE LOY: Mr. Heaukulani, Paul Nash, our engineer, did an analysis of the water and basically there was enough water on site to provide any type of fire protection needed for the property. His estimate at that time just based on the structures that are available was 4 to 6 months for any type of connectivity, just to make, have it. It’s just really all there, and plugged in play, they’re ready to go. HEAUKULANI: Okay. And how about the traffic angle on this one, and how many -? Am I 12 EXHIBIT A correct that, well, Ted, you tell me. The, you said that some of the students were from within HPP. Can I have an idea of how many of those are, how many are travelling in? C. GREENLAW: We have 40 students, we share, 14 come on a van from out of the Park. The rest I believe come from close by, maybe a couple from Orchidland. I don’t really have those statistics but most of them are in the Paradise Park area. HEAUKULANI: Most of them are in HPP, oh, I see. How about pedestrians? How many of them are walking? C. GREENLAW: Two are walking. And right this second two are riding their bikes. Last year th we had six riding their bikes, coming straight across 19 which is paved from Kaloli, yes, from Kaloli across. HEAUKULANI: All right, thank you. ISHIBASHI: Any further questions? KANUHA: I had a question, Mr. Chairman? ISHIBASHI: Go ahead. KANUHA: Mr. Hong, since you are of the opinion, based on your reading of the Zoning Code, that what the operation is is not considered an industrial type of use - well, what kind of use do you consider it to be? HONG: Again, we, I think from a universal perspective, it’s difficult to define what they are doing. And, again, I appreciate the Planning Department and your review of the Code and trying to put it within, well, put all uses generally within certain types of definitions. You know, unfortunately from my professional experience, and Mr. Heaukulani’s experience, I mean, we look at these definitions very carefully. I know the Planning Department does also. So when we saw the characterization of this as light industrial use, you know, I immediately went to the definitions and it just didn’t seem to adequately fit. I don’t think this is, you know, a right or a wrong thing. It’s really a gray thing and, because you have a use that existed since 1993 and since then our land use laws here on the island have evolved. You know, we’ve got the General Plan, we’ve got the Puna CDP. And what those documents and the policy makers I think haven’t, you know, addressed are specific anomalies that would come up in a day-to-day basis that would come up in anybody’s life in trying to apply themselves to the law. So if you’re asking me specifically what category does it fit into, I don’t know that it fits into any category when I look at what they’re doing and when I look at the law. It’s obviously not residential, it’s not obviously agricultural as defined, it’s not medium agricultural or industrial. So it’s, I think the law sometimes lag in terms of allowing for anomalies. And I’m not suggesting that we carve out an exception or that we deserve an exception. But I’m saying that, you know, 13 EXHIBIT A with the recommendations that we’re proposing we think that we will meet the Planning Department’s concerns regarding what types of uses are permitted where. Because really my client is committed to, you know, this is, they’re in their sixties, they are looking to sell the business, transfer the business. They’re just looking to kind of just continue on with it for a few more years, and then that would be the end of it. So I know it’s a long answer to what should be an easy question, and I apologize. Unfortunately, you know, it just doesn’t fit; and that’s the point of what we’re trying to say. And even if you’re trying to ask me where does it fit, I don’t necessarily know I could find something where I would say, yeah, this really fits. HEAUKULANI: Okay, I appreciate that. ISHIBASHI: Yeah, I was under the impression that you were building tanks and treating – so we’re not building nothing there and just delivering water, basically. HONG: Delivering water. And then if I had, was in Paradise Park and I had a problem with my tank and I need it repaired or maintained or whatever, I’d give them a call. C. GREENLAW: Or change the filter. HONG: Oh, yeah, change the filter. I’d give them a call and that’s what, they would come out to my house and do it there. C. GREENLAW: We do build tanks but not at our house. It’s at somebody else’s house. Michael is a Dough-Boy dealer for the State. So if somebody, which are often used, Dough-Boy, right, we often use water catchment. So if someone needs a water tank, they’re building a house and they need a water tank, he goes and sees the site and he recommends what size tank. And it’s ordered from Arkansas, and it’s shipped out here; and it goes to their house and our crews put it up at their house. So that’s where the manufacturing, I don’t know if that’s manufacturing -. We don’t make the tanks, we send for them. There’s a place that makes liners here that we collect for, send the customers to get those. We don’t make them at our house. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Okay, Commissioners? HENKEL: I -. ISHIBASHI: Go ahead, Commissioner Henkel. HENKEL: I see them as providing a service. There are multiple services. They’re educational, fire safety and home service to an economically deprived area. And if it doesn’t meet the letter 14 EXHIBIT A of the various codes and community plans, I’m sure it’s all within the spirit of those plans. So, thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Commissioner. Okay, go ahead, Commissioner Miyasato. MIYASATO: I just need one clarification from the Greenlaws. You know, first off, you know, I do support the satellite learning and education center. It’s just a matter of that boundary that you wanted to revise, and the use of the pool and tennis courts, yeah. There’s a lot of testimony from the former students, current students. And, you know, like in one of the testimony the student mentioned the enjoyment of the tennis courts and use of the swimming pool; and, you know, I fully support physical activities. C. GEENLAW: We had, at the end of the year we had a party; and the Health Department told me that I could invite my students to a party once a year. MIYASATO: Okay. C. GREENLAW: And that’s when. We, they wish they could swimming all the time. We’re going to be -. MIYASATO: Okay. ISHIBASHI: Any further questions, Commissioners? None. You may excused. We’ll take some public testimony. Commissioners want to take a break before we -? GONZALES: Yes. ISHIBASHI: Okay. I’ll call a five-minute recess. We’ll take a break. RECESSED – The Chair called a recess at 10:30 a.m. RECONVENED – The meeting reconvened at 10:37 a.m. ISHIBASHI: Okay, the meeting is called back to order. We have about 22 testifiers. There’s a three-minute time limit. Okay, we have J. C, okay, my brother come up. Gail Clarke, Katherine Akerberg, Jenna Way, come forward. We’ll take four at a time. Okay, Katherine, come up. Thank you. Could you raise your right hand, please, all of you who are going to testify. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter? TESTIFIER: Yes, I do. ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. Okay, J. C., you can go first. 15 EXHIBIT A KOCHER: A lot of what I had to say have already been said. And I know a lot of people want to speak so I’ll try and make it quick. My name is J. C. I moved here about ten years ago. And I came with just a few bucks in my pocket, a backpack, and strong back. And I didn’t have any place to stay or know anybody. I had to ask the taxi cab driver where to sleep that night. And, you know, I started with nothing. I lived in tents and shacks. But because I had the opportunity I was able to build a life, a home, and family in Paradise Park. The opportunity that I speak of was provided by Mike and many others like him. I worked hard. I do a lot of physical labor and serve a lot of people in the Park in Puna. With this effort I make an honest paycheck. Without small business, businesses like Paradise Pools, I would have less opportunity and I would have a harder time taking care of my family. You know, this is very personal to me. Mike and Cindy are the epitome of an asset to the community. The prosperity, value and good it creates are not only immeasurable but exponential, and I hope you understand what exponential means. It means that all the, all the paychecks and the kids that receive an above average education, they don’t end there. They’re multiplied. The pay checks pay mortgages and the kids grow up to be productive members of the community. And if little guys like Mike, you know, are pushed out or forced to change, which would possibly, you know, destroy the business, you know, what are we left with in a community? A lot of people from California, they are riding out the last 15 years here. But that’s not, you know, they pay my checks too. But, you know, we need kids, we need small businesses. And we need water, we need working people, we need more services, not less. Just figuring how long Mike and Cindy have lived, worked and owned property in Paradise Park, I’m guessing they probably paid more road fees and more property taxes, than just about any other resident. They’ve directly employed many people over the years and paid their taxes and indirectly employed many more. Today we’re here, the Commission is here to weigh the benefit of Paradise Pools in the Park and, you know, against an anonymous neighbor complaint which I’m assuming wasn’t concerned enough to even be here today. The Park is full of people who own businesses and work from their home and do many of the same things Mike do, Mike does, and Cindy does. All these people support the community, even if it’s just serving the community in their respective businesses, or services, or products they provide. This is, you know, this is the Big Island. I didn’t move to California, I didn’t move to Oahu. I moved to Puna. This is a small type knit community. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. KOCHER: Thank you very much. AKERBERG: I’m Katherine Akerberg, and I moved here ten years ago. I live almost directly opposite the Greenlaws, I’m a little, am diagonally. And I’m just going to stop before my three minutes because everything has already been said. I’m a beneficiary of all their services. If I go away to the mainland I don’t have to worry about a drought. Michael will watch my tank and make sure that it’s full. This fire hazard is really something I didn’t think about for years until it came up; and I was frightened one night. And I realized I would be okay because of their 16 EXHIBIT A services. I’ve also purchased, very reasonably, an extra tank to have that so that the fire people could also use that. All in all, I mean I could go into detail but I don’t think I need to because it’s being covered by so many people. I think everybody left are supporters, and I certainly am. And everybody I know even if they didn’t come, the people that I know on the street, or the road, pardon me, are definitely supporters of both activities. CLARKE: Aloha, my name Gail Clarke, and my residence and ohana have been near neighbors to the applicants for the past 27 years. I’m also an employee of HAAS Public Charter School. And many of my colleagues and neighbors that are not able to be here today support my testimony. I want to mahalo you for your service and your work to interpret the General and Puna Community Development Plans. I feel they’re really important components in the growth of our communities, and mahalo. As neighbors to the applicants, my ohana has benefited from both the educational services for our daughters and the water services for our unusual residential and agricultural uses that depend on water catchment systems. The Greenlaws have been centric in our neighborhood offering service and added security for close to three decades. Two things: 1. Please consider the well researched recommendations from the Planning Department and approve the application for the learning center that has served our community for nearly 30 years. 2. We, my ohana, neighbors, colleagues, urge the Planning Director to modify his position on the water business to allow it to continue until such a time that public or private water systems serve the growing number of residents in HPP. This is a small commercial facility that serves our daily needs, it is not noisy nor polluting. We really like its presence in our neighborhood that’s dependent upon water catchment. A condition to not expand is reasonable, forced cessation is not a community minded solution, the expense would be prohibitive in these economic times. Please approve all uses sought in the application, they are appropriate for and in our neighborhood. We all smile when we hear the kids laugh and sing. And when Mike, and when Michael answers the phone when we call because a water tank has collapsed or drained with an unexpected plumbing failure, very real situations. That was the end but I want to speak to that water tank on the State land. We’ve watched the fires fly from the beaches across that open land. To those of us that live on the edge of Paradise Park, all water tanks are essential. We have extra ones on our property for exactly the reason that the water trucks can dip. Or in the case of the Greenlaws, they’ve put up standpipes so they that can drain to provide fire protection service for us. Mahalo. J. WAY: Good morning. 17 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: Morning. J. WAY: My name is Jena Way and I’m here to urge you to grant the special permit to the Greenlaws. I have two children who are graduates of Paradise Hui Haumana. My older daughter attended for two years and my son attended for all of his elementary education. PHH is exactly the model of education that is sorely needed in today’s society. Because the number of students is low and the staff to student ratio is high, kids receive much more than what is available in traditional classrooms. PHH was the first school that my kids attended when we moved to the Big Island. It helped us integrate into island life, as well as providing an outstanding educational experience for our family. PHH provides for more than the student’s educational needs. It provides a huge part of a child’s social and emotional needs as well. And I was never concerned for my children’s safety during the school day. As far as the Greenlaw’s water business is concerned, I support it as well. In no way did I ever see the water business interfere with the school in the hundreds of trips that I made up and down th 19 Street. Over the seven years that we were part of the school, I never saw one of the water trucks on the road. A couple of time each year I might see somebody walking around over by the shed. But it’s so far removed from the classroom and the other facilities used by the school as to not be an impact whatsoever. Please approve the permit. The school and the water businesses are both desperately needed by our community in Puna. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Hunter Way, Diana Martin, Tim Martin and Linda Penn, if you can come up, please. If you could raise your right hand, please, as we swear you in. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter? TESTIFIERS: Yes. I do. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you so much. Hunter, go ahead, brother. H. WAY: My name is Hunter Way and I am a graduate of Paradise Hui Haumana. I attended the school for all of my elementary education. I am now a student at Hawai‘i Academy of Arts and Science High School. PHH is a great school because not only does it teach you basic skills like reading, writing and math but it also teaches you teamwork, cooperation, and responsibility. When I was younger, I had problems with my temper. The teachers there helped me get over my anger issues. They recognized when I was on the edge and helped me recognize it too. They also taught me ways to cope and reduce my anger. I know if I was in a regular public school, I could not have received this help. There are too many kids and too few teachers in each class. I would have ended up being that kid that is always sent to the counselor, and probably would actually have spent more time there than actually in the classroom. All the staff at PHH really listens to the students, and works together with the students to meet 18 EXHIBIT A their needs. PHH really changed my life, and I really want them to change other student’s lives, too. So please approve their request, and thank you for listening. ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Hunter. H. WAY: Oh, and also, the entire seven years I was there, I didn’t even know that they ran a water business. I just learned that today. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Diana? D. MARTIN: Aloha and good morning. ISHIBASHI: Good morning. D. MARTIN: I will probably just be reiterating much that have already been said, but I’ll read my statement anyway in full support. I’m a resident of Puna and I support this permit application for the Paradise Hui Haumana Charter School and the Paradise Pools water catchment business. As you know and have heard, these are so essential and are in great need to underserved Puna; and I’d like to see them continue to be provided to our community. The quality educational services are in great demand. I have known the Greenlaws since 2000 and I have witnessed on so many occasions, the dedication that the staff performs, led by Auntie Cindy. It’s just incredible, the passion and the love for the students is such a gift to our community. They’ve served hundreds of students over the years; and as mentioned many have become valedictorians, and so many have gone on to be successful entrepreneurs and wonderful people in our community. The water service is so essential up here, as you’ve heard time and time again, the fastest growing district in the County. So few are hooked up to County water. Catchment is our livelihood for our families, our food that we grow, and for the fire protection and suppression when there’s an accidental house or lot fire. And the drought periods, many people are without water, especially at the lower elevations. I can’t imagine waiting days, and weeks sometimes, which does happen during extended times. We need more water services, not fewer. I would like to see these services continue. They are a benefit, rather an asset. They’re not a detriment at all. The facilities on this property are professionally maintained, clean and safe. I ask with full respect that the County Planning Commission grant this application now before you. Thank you for this opportunity. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Name and address, please. 19 EXHIBIT A T. MARTIN: Aloha. My name is Tim Martin, and I reside in Puna, full time, running a little handyman business. I’ve known the Greenlaws for over a decade; and they’ve always been able to professionally run the water catchment service and the Puna school simultaneously without either enterprise being compromised. These services are much needed here and both enhance our community and quality of life. Aqua vida, water is life. Puna relies heavily on water catchment and delivery, especially in Hawaiian Paradise Park which systems often run dry during the extended dry periods. This an essential service that I would like to see continued. With current water providers, during drought periods, it can take several days, or up to two weeks, for an order to be delivered. Puna needs more water services, not fewer. This does not have any negative impact on the neighborhood and is an important asset. And I support and request that dual permission be granted since both are greatly beneficial to the community. Mahalo. ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. Linda. PENN: Hello. I’m Linda Penn. I live in HPP, quite near the Greenlaws. I’ve known them since the nineties. My, some of the children from my ohana have gone there. My son went there, my son is now a teacher in Pahoa. He’s going to come up here and talk too. And I have to honestly say I think it really is the best school in, at least on the east side of the, maybe in the whole island. I’m not sure. It’s, it really is phenomenal, especially -. I mean they’re ready to go to high school, sometimes they’re kind of overeducated to go to the high school. This is a school that does homework. I mean, this is a different kind of school. And there’s a lot of commitment for the students, a lot of commitment for the parents. And I cannot sing its praises enough. Also I wanted to say that I, just last year I had to stay at one of the cabins there for about a month; and it’s true, the trucks went out in the morning and then came back at night and were never seen all day. And they’re not noisy, it’s very quiet there. Catchment service, it’s so wonderful to say Mike, I need water, you know, to have that in the neighborhood. When Jillian’s is filled, and everybody’s is filled, and everybody is waiting and desperate for water, it’s just such a relief to have another company here, especially Mike’s. So, please, I ask you please grant them their, what they’re looking forward to, I’m not exactly sure what it is, but please do. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Okay, next testifiers, Kawa Harijan, Jolon Clinton, Lawrence Brennan, Eliana Morris, will you come up, please. Could you raise your right hands, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter? TESTIFIERS: I do. Yes. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you. You’ll go first? HARIJAN: Yes. 20 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: Name and address for the record. HARIJAN: My name is Kawa Harijan, I live in Wainaku. My mom was just sitting in the same seat, so she prepped you for me. I went to PHH for most of my elementary, and then I went, actually straight into high school; and it has shaped the person who I am today in so many ways. I th am currently teaching 6 grade at Pahoa Elementary. And in a public school setting it’s a little difficult because of the high student to teacher ratio. And so what I’ve done is I’ve learned to adapt a lot of things, the ways I’ve learned in school; and I’ve adapted it within my classroom. And it is amazing to see the things that are taught at Auntie Cindy’s School translated into a public school setting and see the kids how excited they get. Cause it’s unfortunate they don’t have the kinds of opportunities that are available to them, and so I’d like to provide that to them, using the methods and ways that I was taught there. They say that this is a satellite school. It’s unfortunate that it has to be called a satellite school because I think it should be called school in general. This is what a school should be like everywhere. Kids want to go to school, kids love it. Look at all the kids who came out to support today. They’re here because they love their school so much, and it’s something that they are passionate about. I wanted to go to school every day. I had perfect attendance. I was happy to be at school. It made me just ecstatic. And as for, you know, Mike being on campus, it was interesting because it would be like one of those rare sightings where it’d be like, oh, my gosh, Mike’s here, like a rare creature walking, you know. You know, so there weren’t, there was hardly any of the pool business or anything when I was in school and, you know -. I visited it recently and a lot of the improvements they’ve made have just been astounding. And I fully support everything that they’re doing. BENNAN: I’m Lawrence Brennan. I’m on the Board of Hawaiian Paradise Park Owners Association. We reviewed the application with the Greenlaws. We unanimously approved that. I had some concerns about road maintenance issues because of the traffic; and I think those were addressed successfully to the Board’s concerns. We have some issues with special use users on our roads because we have no monies from the County, or the State, or the Federal government to sustain our roads. So we may in the future assign an additional cost burden to special use permit users, but haven’t yet. I think in the past we did. But just so you know that that’s one of the things we may look at in the future. I have a statement I’d like to read real quick that I’m going to piggyback on this opportunity. This statement is from the Hawaiian Paradise Park Owners Association. Hawaiian Paradise Park Owners Association has recently formed a Community Action Committee that was formed to re- frame our community master plan. Our goal is to develop a community plan to be included in the master development plan for Puna. There are many barriers to developing town centers, parks, schools and other services for our large and growing community. We would like to partner with the various community leaders and planners in developing a realistic plan for the development of our community, HPP. Our desire is to make HPP an active participant in our growing island community. The HPPOA Board would ask the Windward Planning Commission to be especially judicious in approving future Special Use Permits for HPP. We envision having HPP community 21 EXHIBIT A development more in alignment with the Puna Development Plan in the future. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. CLINTON: Hi. I am Jolan and I’m currently attending PHH. I love the school because I learn so much every day and I feel really connected to nature there. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. MORRIS: Hi, my name is Eliana and I’ve been to PHH since first grade and now I’m in six. This is my last year here. I’m kind of sad. And I love the school because I just learn a lot of stuff and it’s really fun, even to learn drama, and music, and everything; and I’m really connected to nature. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. Okay, Matt, June Conant, Starlyt Derasin, and Brooks Maloof, Matt Jacobson. Okay, if you all could raise your right hands, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter? TESTIFIERS: Yes, I do. ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. Starlyt, you can go first, go ahead. DERASIN: I’m Starlyt. I’m ten years old and I have been going to HAAS for three years. I moved a lot, and HAAS is my seventh school, and it’s my favorite school. We don’t have a lot of kids. That’s because they want to give each child love and attention because they deserve that so that each child feels important. Second, this is also the only school that I’ve been to with animals. The third reason is this is the only school that I’ve been to that is like a big family. We don’t call anybody by their last names, and we call them auntie. So, yeah, thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Thank you so much. JACOBSON: Good morning. ISHIBASHI: Good morning. JACOBSON: Thank you. My name is Matt Jacobson. I’m a resident of Puna and am an employee of the Hawai‘i Academy of Arts and Science. As the school counselor at Paradise Hui Haumana, I’ve seen the impact that the school has on the children there. As one of the people responsible for the safety and security of the students, I want to address the concern that the Commissioner had in that the presence of the water catchment business is not only not an impact on the safety and security of the kids, but having Mike Greenlaw present on the property actually increases the security, cause we know that he has a set of eyes out for who’s on the property. And any time any vehicle comes on the property we’re all aware of who’s there and what’s going on. So I can assure the Commission that that aspect of it is, the kids are very safe and secured 22 EXHIBIT A there. And most of the clients of the Paradise Pool Catchment business, and I can also testify that when I ordered my catchment tank they were very professional. They came out and they assembled the tank on my property. They came in a regular pickup truck, it wasn’t a heavy duty truck. And the parts were assembled on my site, and they did a great job. So thank you very much. I hope you can support both the requests of the applicant. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. CONANT: Good morning. My name is June Conant. I’m also on the Board of HPP and I was recently appointed to the PCDP, the Puna Community Development Plan, Committee. And ever since I’ve been on there it’s said, you know, Paradise Park needs to get working on a town center. So, as Larry mentioned, we just formed a committee to start looking at everything in the Park, to try and get some services out there. As you well know we basically have nothing yet. We’re as big as Kona, bigger than Waimea, and so we’re going to be starting on that. I did bring a copy of a real estate ad that was in the paper Sunday, just to let you know that this is the type of thing that we’re trying to avoid in Paradise Park, as opposed to the applicant that’s here today. When Shady Lane School came for a special permit, we were very concerned with the road since we have to pay for all of our roads. And they, that particular school does not help us with the roads. Whereas, the Greenwells have through the years helped us with the road situation that leads up to their property; and we certainly appreciate that, as well as the fact that I know that the rd Puna Development Plan does ask that all the water and light industrial be up on 33. And their particular situation and their location being at the very end of the road and the fact that they don’t really manufacture anything on their property really didn’t concern us that much when they did come before the Board and asked for approval. So as part of the Board we are supporting their application. But, anyway, this type of an ad I happened to notice the particular property, and the people have built a very nice artist studio in the back and so forth. But yet the realtor is saying that it could be used as an auto shop or veterinary place. And so those are the things that we’re going to be trying to stop. So please work with us in the future. I’m sure we’ll be at the Planning Director, Planning Department, cause I’ve talked to Larry Brown. And once we get our committee going we will be asking for some options and ideas going forward. Thank you so much. ISHIBASHI: Okay. MALOOF: Thank you very much. I just came here to ask for your approval of both the water tank and water hauling business and the school. I’m a long-term friend of the Greenlaws. My children went to school at the Paradise Home School many years ago, went on to Hilo High, went on to the University of Hawaii, graduated from UH-Hilo, and now raising families in Puna and HPP. I can’t say enough about the school, not much has been said about it. It needs to continue with as much support as all of us can give them because they’re doing a wonderful job. As far as the water hauling business and water tank business, you know, I was on the Board of Directors at the 23 EXHIBIT A Hui Hanalike, which is now the HPOA -. Is that, is that what it is now? CONANT: HPPOA. MALOOF: HPPOA. And actually I ran the community action committee back in the early nineties, and we did a plan. There was actually a plan, so if you can find it. But it developed into the Puna Community Development Plan. It was the basic grassroots for the Puna Community Development Plan. And one of the things we wanted to do was to keep the commercial out of the center of the Park. So I guess as things evolved the highway lots up there on the top of Maku‘u were tapped as commercial. There’s not many of them. It’s very small. It’s not enough for the number of businesses and people that would like to have a business in Puna. As a matter of fact, there weren’t any commercial lots in Puna. So then Mike Greenlaw decided to develop his water business to serve the community that needed water, and there weren’t a lot of houses back in those days in Paradise Park. It has really developed rapidly, there wasn’t any choice. You did it at home, everybody was doing home business. I don’t think even Shipman was started at that point back in the early nineties. So as far as Puna is concerned, they didn’t have commercial property available. So doing it at home was very essential and low impact in the way it had been done. And they deserve to be approved and have this special use permit issued for the water hauling business, as well as the school. You folks, I’m sure you’re all familiar with Puna and their needs as far as water goes. And the farmers, all the farmers, not everyone has wells. So if you take a look at where the water business is, it also serves the community and some of the agricultural businesses. So, yeah, water is important in what they’re doing. It fits the bill for agriculture as well. So thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. And let’s hope that we can move on. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you so much. Okay, Lisa Frazer, Carol McKinney-Jarman, Desere’e Hughes, Steve Hirakami. If you could raise your right hand, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter? TESTIFIERS: Yes. I do. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you so much. You can go first. Name and address for the record, please. HUGHES: My name is Desere’e Hughes, and I live in Kapoho. My son attended PHH for four years. And I’m really sad, he begged me to come here today. It meant so much to him and I didn’t know there would be other kids and it breaks my heart, cause he really, really wanted to speak for the children. Sorry. But I think that’s important, but that’s what we’re considering here, is it’s all about the kids, it’s about what the kids love. And every child that goes to that th school is sad to leave and wants to go back and visit. Every time we drive by 19, “Momma, can we go visit Auntie Cindy, please? And he has grown so much as a person and in his education through the time being there. And they offer so much more than just education, although they have tons of homework and they learn so much there. And he improved over the years at being in 24 EXHIBIT A at that school. He, he has shown confidence in his ability to be in front of the drama section and department. And they show him so many different ways of being in front of people to be able to speak and learning how to do from one aspect to the other in the whole drama, which is important to him because he loved that part of the school as well, which you don’t get in a lot of schools. And the one-on-one individual needs for the kids because the school offers the ratio of children to teacher is so much smaller that every parent wants the best for their children, and you get it there. And I think that’s really, really important because in the world today we don’t have that many places. And the school offers that for the kids. And I think that’s important to consider because the kids really thrive in the situation; and it’s important because those, our children will be sitting in your places at some point in their lives. And the kids that come out of that school are so well rounded and, you know, push on to bigger and better things in their life; and I think that’s important. And if I remember correctly there are so many people that want to go to this school, where you have to win a lottery to get in; and I think that says something right there in its own. There are so many people want to be privileged enough to go to the school that they have to win a lottery to get there. So I think that’s something we need to consider. And for the safety of the children, I’ve never once felt, I actually felt it was safer there than any public school, because you can see everything from the classroom. And my kid, my child when he was there was always, I always felt he was in good hands and completely protected. And for the water catchment situation, it was never even a concern, we never even noticed it was there. So thank you for your time. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. MCKINNEY-JARMAN: Hello, my name is Carol McKinney-Jarman. I live in Hawaiian Paradise Park. I have lived there for 14 years. I have been affiliated with the school and know the Greenlaws through a number of different situations. I have taught at the school, I have had my granddaughter attend the school, and I have become friends with them. And I currently do tutoring at the school, after school. Now I am arriving at the school during the time that school has been dismissed and the parents are picking their children up. So I am typically passing by the vehicles that are traversing the road away from the school. And I can tell you that I rarely, if ever, have passed more than five vehicles, including the school van. So this road although there are a number of children attending the school, this road is not getting 44 vehicles going up and down the road twice a day. So there is a lot of carpooling going on and there is the van that transports approximately 25 percent of the student population. Secondarily, having been on this property for various reasons throughout the years, I can honestly state that I have never heard any noise come from the pool business facility at all. In fact, I have often wondered what actually goes on there. As far as children’s safety, I can tell you that being in the classroom both as a teacher, as a grandparent, and as a tutor that it is situated so that you are extremely aware of any approaching 25 EXHIBIT A individuals or vehicles that come on to the property, recognize that the roads that go through this property are gravel. So as soon as there is a vehicle that approaches, one is immediately aware of it because the property is so quiet, of course not including all the joyous cries from the student population and their playful voices. However, I would very much encourage the Commission to consider approving both of their special permit applications. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. FRAZER: Hello, my name is Lisa Frazer. I’m a resident of lower Puna for the past 30 plus years. I’m also an employee of HAAS. I’m a classroom aid and the shuttle driver that Carol was just speaking about. So I know we’re doing everything right. And just hearing all the testimony from our parents and students and alumni is getting me very emotional, so I’m not going to really go into detail about the satellite learning center. I’ll let everyone else speak on our behalf. I will say as a client of Paradise Water or Paradise Pools, it’s important to me as a woman in lower Puna when I get water run out, people come to my home, secluded areas, I want to know that I can trust these people. You know, I have to be home when I have water delivered because of the gate; and my property is fenced so I have to be there to physically to open the gate. And then I have to wait there with the people while they’re filling your tank. And it’s important for me to feel comfortable with the people that are coming to my home to deliver these services. I know there are others out there that provide this service. I’m not saying they’re crooks, I’m just saying that these are people that I can trust and I feel comfortable with. And that’s it. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Mr. Hirakami. HIRAKAMI: Good morning. My name is Steve Hirakami and I live in Kalapana. I also can say with conviction that I also am a parent of a graduate of Paradise Hui Haumana. My son Pono went there during the fourth grade, the first year that HAAS contracted with Paradise Hui Haumana to bring them on board. He’s a senior this year and graduating. I just want to say at times the hour is changing, especially in Puna. This Monday I went shopping at Pahoa Cash and Carry at their closeout sale, 40 percent off everything. And, you know, when I moved to the area 40 years ago, mom and pop stores,they were the stores in Pahoa, if you remember. It was then Toma Bakery, you get breakfast for 99 cents with eggs and spam and rice and a piece of toast. And, so, you know, back then there were a very few services available. I mean, much less stores and places to shop, so people did what they can and, you know -. And there were two types of people. They were community takers and they were community givers, what I consider people like the Greenlaws adding education and delivering a real special need. I lived off power, off grid and power and water and everything in Opihikao for 20 years. So I know how important it is to rely on a catchment business and, you know, people to come fill your tanks when you’re totally out of water. So I know how critical that is. And I think that, you know, these kinds of cottage industries are very important in our area; and, you know, we’re moving to the big box kind of things where everything we do -. I like the nature of these small schools in the Park, right central there. You know, one-room schools, they really give the students a good education, as well as a sense of community, a sense of respect, a sense of family. 26 EXHIBIT A And I think that’s something that really gets neglected in traditional schools because of the size of the school. So I really like the concept. You know, there is a relationship between the water business and schools. As you know, the three essentials are -- schooling is shelter -- education, food and water. We provide food for the children through the National School Lunch Program. But as a result of serving food, the State Health Department requires potable water. You can’t use catchment for serving the National School Lunch Program. So Michael Greenlaw and I got together and some of other applications that went before you, Shady Grove, and Kaleidoscope (phonetic) that went before you that needed potable water. So Mike Greenlaw was nice enough to design these kinds of systems that we are going to put at the satellite schools, including their own and, also, deliver water to them. So I think this goes hand in hand with, on the application. So I hope that you approve both of them. Thank you very much. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Okay, next four testifiers, Aung Kyaw Moe, Graham Ellis, Stacey Tucker and Westerly, Wesley Gardner, Juan De Armos, Alex. Okay, if you could raise your right hand, please. And do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission? TESTIFIERS: Yes, I do. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you. You may go first, state your name and address for the record. TUCKER: My name is Stacey Tucker. I live in Kalapana. I have a daughter that goes to the school. And she’s, you know, she likes school and all but it’s not her favorite thing. She’d much rather prefer going out and climbing trees and doing outside activities. The school has given her a drive for the books and hunkering down for homework, enjoying that kind of activity, as well as being outside playing and being excused just as much to come inside and crack open on some homework. And I think that’s a really important thing in a school if they can create an atmosphere where the child is just as comfortable doing whatever is going on over there. They have outside activities, there are wonderful programs that all of the kids are supported and all the teachers are supportive. And I’m just really thankful to have won the lottery to have her go there. As far as the catchment business, living in Puna, you know, I can definitely say I have used many times the water catchment guys coming to the house in the last ten years. So mahalo. I’d really appreciate it if you guys would approve both of their applications. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. DE ARMOS: My name is Juan De Armos and I live in Puna Beach Palisades. And I just would like to read a statement on behalf of myself and my partner who is not here today. Hui Haumana provides an exceptional educational program in a diverse and unique environment. Our son Alexader Pellegrini has been attending Hui Haumana for five years now and is perhaps the most significant reason we felt confident to uprooting our lives and moving to the Big Island from New 27 EXHIBIT A York City. Once we met the staff at Hui Haumana we knew that our son would have the opportunity to be educated in a way that few children are in the world today. He is taught with professionalism and love. He is important to the school because the teachers at Hui Haumana make every child important. This is a rare occurrence in the educational system of our country. As a student, our son goes to school with a smile on his face every day; and we feel blessed, we feel blessed that the desire to be educated is instilled in him in a peaceful and confident manner. Students who attend Hui Haumana are not only taught to be wise about their futures, but they are taught to be considerate and benevolent as human beings. The Big Island is better because of Hui Haumana. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. PELLEGRINI: My name is Alex and I live down by Kalapana. I’ve been at the school I think since first grade and it’s just, and I have a great time being there and then having an awesome education. And the Water Company thing I never really noticed it. So, yeah, thanks, I hope you guys can support them. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Alex. G. ELLIS: Good morning, my name is Graham Ellis. I’ve lived in lower Puna for the last 30 years. And I’ve known the Greenlaws for about 25 years through the water tank business, having purchased a tank, through the kids, having a lot of the kids come to the Hiccup Circus, amazing kids, and through shows that I’ve attended for the school, which in my opinion are some of the very, very best drama theater work that any kids do in any of the islands here. Big credit to Cindy for that. I’m not going to repeat all the other great things that the school does and provides. But I do want to say that the Greenlaws in my opinion provide more services to our community than hardly anyone else that I’ve ever met. They really wouldn’t be here today if we had a plan when we built the subdivision. That’s why they’re here, that’s why special permits are needed in this situation, because we didn’t have a plan for providing services for the people who were going to be living in the subdivisions. This is an island-wide program. Everywhere there are subdivisions we have these situations where people like the Greenlaws have given of themselves to provide the services that they see that the community needs; and they’ve done a good job of it. And here they are 20, 25 years later having to come here and ask your permission for something that has worked for 25 years. They’ve been the planners, they’ve been the ones stepping up to the plate, providing what their community needs. Not only are they just perfect, excellent examples of contributing community members, they’ve created real community development. They’ve done that. This hasn’t been something that has come down from the County. This is grass roots community development and it has worked. They’ve been supported by the local community association because the services they provide are very needed. They are needed and supported, as you can see by the community. I hope they’ll be supported by all of you. Thank you. 28 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Next four testifiers, Westerly Gardner, Ira Osborn, Ray Antignane, Epiphany Ellis. OSBORN: Hello, my name is Ira and I live in HPP. And I would like the school to stay open because there’s a lot of animals there, and there’s a lot of space to run around and play, and there’s a really big playground, and there’s swings, and I made four friends. And, yeah, it’s a really nice school. And there is a lot of space, and there’s three playgrounds, and there’s a big banyan tree that I like to go under, and there’s a lot of shade. And there’s a lot of, a lot of space, space in the classroom. And there are, there’s a lot of teachers that like to teach us things. And that’s about it. ISHIBASHI: Come back, Ira. Raise your right hand. You can raise your right hand, too. Do you swear to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commissioner over this matter? TESTIFIERS: I do, yes. ISHIBASHI: Okay, thank you so much. ANTIGNANE: Hi, my name is Ray Antignane, and I’m a resident of Orchidland Estates, across th the highway from Paradise Park. I’ve lived there for over 30 years, on 38 Ave, now with my wife and family. My two young boys, 9 and11years old, both attend Paradise Hui Haumana. And I have a nursery plant service that depends heavily on Michael’s water business. My water catchments on the property were set up on the property by his business, and I continue to use him. I don’t have a well. And so I’m just here to support you guys giving him the special permit so, cause we depend heavily -. I’m sure I’m just one of many, many people in the community. If everybody could be here it would take us a long time. And I haven’t heard any opposition from anybody in the community, and they’ve never been in violation of anything. This is an important ongoing issue for us. Please support them. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. I cannot pronounce this name, Ef, Efphany? E. ELLIS: Epiphany. ISHIBASHI: Epiphany Ellis, Okay. Could you raise your right hand, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the Windward Planning Commission? E. ELLIS: Yes. Well, I’m attending PHH. Well, my name is Epiphany and I’m 11. I’m attending PHH for the first year, and I have a little sister attending PHH, and I also have a brother that graduated from PHH. It’s a great place. Like during lunch they read to us, and we do crafts to help us learn directions and to follow them easier. And then we have a huge space, and then we always, like we have so much to do all the time. It’s so much fun. We’re not piled up with homework. It’s just great. And then like we, well, that’s about it. ISHIBASHI: Okay. Any more? 29 EXHIBIT A E. ELLIS: That’s good. ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. Anyone else wants to testify? If not, this is the end of our public testimony. Okay, we’ll call the applicant back up. Thank you, Auntie Cindy, wonderful. Yes, the proof is in the pudding so you make good pudding. I can taste it. It’s ono, ono. Okay, Mr. Hong. HONG: Again, we’d like to thank the Planning Department, the Planning Director, and the Planning Commission for hearing the testimony. We’re happy to answer any questions or concerns that the Commissioners may have, or the Planning Director. As we mentioned we did distribute the proposed conditions that we think would hopefully meet the objectives and some of the concerns of the Planning Director and Department. Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Okay, Commissioners, any questions? ONO: I have a clarification, please. ISHIBASHI: Okay, Commissioner Ono. ONO: It seems to me that the application is, special permit is addressing two different issues. One is the establishment of the school and the other is the concern on the catchment. And this bundling bothers me. Cause I’m trying to focus on either the education thing, and then of course the catchment issue comes up. Is there a possibility of submitting a separate application for both? HONG: Well, because of the way the process worked, and the use was kind of consolidated, we submitted a single special use permit application. I don’t know necessarily that we’re looking at this as a bundling where if you had to approve the school you had to approve the water catchment business. And when you look at the Planning Director’s recommendation he separates both of them. We think that in terms of our application the proposed conditions that we advanced and distributed this morning would hopefully address any concerns that you may have regarding the business aspect. I would also note that when we had initially appeared this morning and talked about this is a lot consolidation where you’d have four lots but only three, the reason why we did that was because along the same veins we had that concern that, you know, you as Commissioners might want to look at the two things separately. So we certainly didn’t want the school to be subjected to any kind of a negative type of perspective or view because of the business aspect. So that’s why we wanted to actually separate them also. ONO: But your application is for, you’re combining both? HONG: Yes. 30 EXHIBIT A LEE LOY: If I may -. Commissioner Ono, the impetus for this application was an advisory letter that we got from the Planning Department. That was the trigger. It was to legitimize the use of the school and the water catchment on this property. The applicants own all four properties. And so we began to address the advisory letter. That’s how this actually all began. ONO: How are they separate though? One is basically to be used for the school and the other is for the continuance of the catchment business. And this is why I’m saying, suggesting the possibility that maybe we could have two special permit applications. LEE LOY: We originally applied for the school. And the Planning Department asked us to include the water business. ONO: Thank you. ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Henkel. HENKEL: It’s my understanding according to the blue sheet, which are your proposals to the conditions, that you will phase out the water business over a period of ten years anyway, right? HONG: That’s correct. HENKEL: Thank you. MOSES: Mr. Chair, I have a comment. ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Moses. MOSES: So with the Planning Director’s recommendation as it now stands, it does say that he has the right to, yeah, based upon public testimony modify or alter his position. We also received from the applicant conditions, proposed conditions. And so I’d like to hear from the Planning Director. ISHIBASHI: Director Kanuha, Commissioner Moses requested interpretation of, and clarifying this blue, and then the Department’s position in regards to their recommendation. KANUHA: I’m sorry. I stepped away to consult with staff. What was the inquiry again, Commissioner Moses? MOSES: Are you, you know, according to your recommendation it does say that you may reserve the right to change or alter your position based upon public testimony, which we just heard. And we also received proposed conditions from the applicant. And I’d like to know if at this point are you going to perhaps change your recommendation. KANUHA: You know, I think, I think when the, when it came time for making deliberations, I 31 EXHIBIT A consulted with our Corporation Counsel on this and several other issues, and I was going to make a statement then, but, you know, since the question has arisen -. The reason we took the position that we did with regard to the commercial aspect of it is that there’s been a litigation on a project in Kona that the, it was an administrative permit that the Department approved. An adjoining neighbor appealed it to the Circuit Court. And the ruling that came down from the Circuit Court was the decision had to comply with the CDPs because the CDPs were ordinances. Okay. We’re appealing that decision, you know, because, you know, on a number of reasons, with the rationale. But with that hanging in the background we almost had no alternative but to give the CDPs, which were adopted by ordinance, just like the General Plan was adopted by ordinance, you know, overriding consideration. And that’s why we had to take the position we did here. Now that being said, should the Commission decide, based on public testimony, to take an opposite position from our recommendation, you know, and perhaps make a recommendation to approve this, in order to perhaps supplement our appeal, we have already considered, Corporation Counsel and I, the alternative that we may have to appeal your decision, you see what I’m getting at, in order to protect the appeal that we have pending before the Third Circuit Court. Does that kind of help? MOSES: Yes. KANUHA: Thanks. ONO: Excuse me, before you respond, excuse me. Director, did I hear you correctly if we decide to go against the recommendation that you made, you may have to appeal our, our decision? KANUHA: Yeah, because of the way the, where things are with this case, that would, we need to protect our interest, which is the Department, as differentiated from the Commission. We realize where your role on this is. But with this particular case that’s hanging over us right now, and this is the Third Circuit decision that has been appealed, you know, up to the Intermediate Court of Appeals, so it’s going to be out there for a while. So what we try, what we’re doing is rather than acknowledge the decision of that Court that says these are what you need to consider, our decisions need to stay as close as possible to that. We can acknowledge that what that decision is is what we’re going to do because we’re appealing it, you know, on various grounds. So, you know, that’s why that’s the way it is. ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Henkel. HENKEL: Doesn’t it all come down to whether we consider the water business to be light manufacturing, or industrial, as opposed to a service industry? KANUHA: You could make that finding. But if that’s the case, then, you know, you’d almost be leaning towards looking at that business as a permitted use, which wouldn’t, you know, need a special permit. That’s the difficulty there. 32 EXHIBIT A COTTLE: Mr. Chairman, may I respond to Commissioner Henkel’s inquiry? ISHIBASHI: Go ahead, Maija. COTTLE: The discussion came up with the applicants and the Commission of, you know, why the Planning Department is considering this a light industrial use, and I just want to refer to the Zoning Code. It doesn’t have a definition for a base yard or a contractor yard. But under light industrial uses, one of the permitted uses it says contractor’s yards for equipment, material and vehicle storage, repair or maintenance. So we felt of all of the uses listed in the Zoning Code in any district, that this was most similar to what the water catchment tank business is doing. And since it’s only permitted in the light industrial or industrial zoning, that’s why we felt this was a light industrial use. HONG: And, Mr. Chairman, if I may. ISHIBASHI: Yes, go ahead, Mr. Hong. HONG: Maija is referring to 25-5-142, subsection (a), No. (20), Contractors’ yards for equipment, which is not stored there. And on my client’s property, he has the trucks parked there. Material, that’s not, he doesn’t store any of those, like the bands or whatever you need to construct the water catchment tanks. Vehicle storage, repair or maintenance, he doesn’t do that on site. The trucks park, park there in the morning, or the evening, go out in the morning. So, again, I think the Director’s position is quite reasonable. And if I were advising him, I’d say the same thing Mr. Brilhante was saying. I think that’s a reasonable position that they have to take given the circumstances. Again, the point that I was trying to make earlier was you have something that was there before any of these plans and ordinances were, existed. And, you know, I often tell people that, you know, the law is a dull ax, it’s not a surgical scapel. This is an example of that where you have these plans, the General Plan and the Puna CDP. They’re trying to refine land uses, but still that doesn’t encompass the reality of the situation on the ground. And that’s one of the things that you’re going to have to be dealing from the time you started on the Planning Commission till the time you end. This is going to be, there’s always going to be that conflict. I would suggest as an alternative, in terms of uses, 25-5-72 which talks about agricultural districts and refer to Subsection (a) No. (18), Public uses and structures which are necessary for agricultural practices. And I think that if, the same argument could be made that based on the testimony of Ray Antignane, the gentleman who talked about his nursery, that his nursery plant service is supported by the water catchment and the water delivery services that if, you know, you know, and it’s, again, areas of gray. If there, one area of gray could say that this was light industrial. I think equally as persuasive is that this could be considered an agricultural use also. So, you know, these lots are all zoned in the agricultural area, so conceivably our use would be more consistent, I submit, with an agricultural district. 33 EXHIBIT A COTTLE: Mr. Chair, if I may just respond to that. ISHIBASHI: Yes. COTTLE: The Department made its recommendation based upon the information that was provided in the application to us. And if I can just draw your attention to page 5 of their application. It says, on the second paragraph, the warehouse will store and house various materials and vehicles associated with the water catchment and pool service business. So, again, that goes back to the definition that they did represent that they will store materials, they will store vehicles. So this is, in effect, a base yard for a water catchment tank business. Mr. Hong suggested a different definition be used, that this is a public use. And if you look at the definition in the Zoning Code for that section, public uses and private uses are very different. This is a business where they do make money providing water to their clientele. This isn’t a public use, if you look at the definition that Mr. Hong is referring to. HONG: For illustration purposes, Exhibit A to our, the blue sheet, the third page is a picture of the truck in the area that they’re stored in. And, you know, you don’t see the lifts or the tool boxes that you would see in a mechanics shop to repair trucks or anything like that. So, again, you know, I certainly don’t fault and I’m not trying to attempt to fault or debate or dispute what the Planning Department and Planning Director is saying. It’s just a matter of shades of gray in these circumstances that we’re trying to point out. ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Henkel. HENKEL: Mr. Greenlaw, a couple of years ago there was a big fire between your neighborhood and Hawaiian Shores, I think. Did you provide water to the Hawai‘i County Fire Department to help control that? M. GREENLAW: The water truck can be used by the volunteer fire department in case they need another fire truck. HENKEL: So you do work with the Fire Department then. So, and that would add to the gray area, public versus private. C. GREENLAW: They took water from our tanks for that fire. I don’t know that, it may be the year we didn’t have a water truck. Is that the fire year you’re referring to also in ’91 -? HENKEL: That’s correct. C. GREENWELL: We didn’t have our water truck then. But they took water from our water tanks to fight the fire, because we have a number of water tanks that aren’t connected to houses. We have two that just stand there for fire; and they actually took water from our home as well and filled them up later. But we didn’t have our water truck then, but now our water truck is available to the volunteer fire department. I believe that Michael McMillian wrote a letter. He is 34 EXHIBIT A a volunteer fireman. So, but, the truck itself has not been used yet. I hope it never is. ONO: Mr. Chair, I have a question; ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Ono. ONO: I need some guidance on this. The fact that there has been a request for a special permit now, and we are aware, or at least I’m aware that there seems to be some use that is not permitted at this time with the catchment and the school. Your request is for a special permit to establish this as legal. And we also have, well, I am concerned about the Court and this hearing, this appeal that the Department is going to be making. Is there a consequence, well, the practice, the activity has been going on previously. But now that it’s for public record, is there a consequence if we don’t act on this and they continue their activity? HONG: There would be two consequences. I mean conceivably the Planning Department can proceed with enforcement actions, notice of violations, and the subsequent procedures. The Department of Health also has a concern because of, the lunch is provided. So the Department of Health, without the special use permit, could actually withdraw their support in terms of providing lunches for the school, for this reduced lunch, free and reduced lunch program. ONO: The lunch program, excuse me, is that the one that’s funded by the Federal? HONG: Yes, in part. ISHIBASHI: Any more questions, Commissioners? Commissioner Gonzales. GONZALES: I have a question. Actually my question is for Maija, or the staff, question. I’m a little confused. How would I, how would you make a motion if we have an approval and a denial on the same permit? COTTLE: You would do separate motions. GONZALES: You have to do separate motions. COTTLE: So if you’re going to go with the Director’s recommendation, you would approve the school first, and then you would make a motion to deny the water catchment rank. GONZALES: And if we decided that we’d like to approve the water business, we have no conditions set forth by the Planning Department. COTTLE: That’s correct. So what -. GONZALES: How would we proceed with that? 35 EXHIBIT A COTTLE: The Department would request, if the Commission is going to go in that direction, is that you make the motion to, make a motion to have the Planning Department, at another meeting, provide a findings of fact and decision and order with suggested conditions, at which time we would most likely incorporate a lot of Mr. Hong’s suggested conditions, and then come back to the next meeting and discuss the conditions that are presented to you. GONZALES: Okay. And would it be, the final decision would be postponed, or would it just be approved, and then we would sign off later on with the conditions? COTTLE: It would be postponed. The hearing would be continued. ISHIBASHI: Excuse me, Commissioners. Mr. Kanuha. KANUHA: Commissioner, to add to that, you have some proposed conditions of approval for the water business side of it. But what you don’t have is the justifications for the approval. So you would have to make those determinations either verbally, well, you’d have to make it verbally somehow, and then we would then translate that into a decision that you can render later on. The alternative is since the applicant put together the proposed conditions, you know, that he could also submit that. That’s something you could consider later on, you know. And perhaps if that alternative is one that they could take, then perhaps they could incorporate wording which would further protect your decision, in the event this other decision holds. HONG: And, you know, that would be acceptable to us. That, I think given the unusual circumstances that I think Mr. Ono highlighted with these two different recommendations for the same special use permit, I think that’s appropriate, extremely appropriate that, you know, we would draft proposed findings, and the decision and order. And then everybody can look at that, and debate, and discuss it. KANUHA: Yeah, that wouldn’t exactly be a proposed findings and decision and order, but, you know, justifications along the lines of what the criteria would be for approving the special permits, but also pay attention to how you’re going to justify compliance with the CDP and the GP, yeah. LEE LOY: And that’s completely reasonable for our office, in kind of finding those justifications, along with dovetailing some of the proposed conditions of approval that we provided to the Commission. And, actually, we’d appreciate that cause it will be a nice clean record for the Commission. ISHIBASHI: Any further questions? MIYASATO: Mr. Chair? ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Miyasato. MIYASATO: Can we get a five-minute recess? 36 EXHIBIT A ISHIBASHI: Okay, recess. RECESSED – The Chair called a short recess at 11:55 a.m. RECONVENED – The Chair reconvened the meeting at 12:01p.m. ISHIBASHI: The meeting will reconvene. Any further questions? ONO: Yeah. ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Ono. ONO: Yeah. Again just for my thoughts here. Is there a possibility to amend the special permit to permit one half of it, in favor of the school, so to speak - at least it seems to be a separate issue - and defer the special permit request for the catchment, the water business at this time? Is that a possibility? Okay, let me clarify why. You brought up the health issue with the Health Department, and if nothing goes through technically they’re in violation. So it can happen within a very short period of time that the school may have to close. I guess I’m concerned that I don’t feel comfortable with that. But then to me it’s still a separate issue between the water catchment business and the school. So is there a possibility of amending the special permit to have the school continue and defer that water catchment thing until the Court decides on whatever the definition of light business is? HONG: Well, I appreciate, Commissioner Ono, your wanting or discussing alternative ways to handle this. I would prefer the response that Maija gave to Commissioner Gonzales’s question about how do you as a Commission deal with this where you could adopt the Planning Director’s recommendation regarding the school separately from, and deal with the water business issue separately. And how we would like to deal with that is certainly move to actually, the motion we would like to see in a perfect world would be that you’re going to amend the recommendation of the Planning Director to incorporate some of the terms and conditions that we’re proposing subject to the submission and approval of some kind of findings of fact and justification that the Planning Director had articulated. That’s the way how we would like to see it. Because if you amend it to carve out the business, then we’re going to go back to square one; and I think it will add a significant delay to the process and my client’s ability to continue the business out in Paradise Park. ISHIBASHI: Thank you for that. We’re going to take five minutes, five-minute break. RECESSED – The Chair called a short recess at this time, 12:03 p.m. RECONVENED – The Chair reconvened the meeting at 12:10 p.m. ISHIBASHI: Okay, the meeting will now reconvene. You know, this is a very important, very 37 EXHIBIT A important topic and issue. And we’re facing as a Commission based on the public testimony and all that is before us now, we need to justify this, this -. KANUHA: Mr. Chairman? ISHIBASHI: Go ahead. Go ahead, Director. KANUHA: You know, this question is for, you know, Mr. Hong, the applicant. We acknowledge that you’ve submitted for the Commission’s consideration a list of, you know, conditions should the Commission consider the approval of the water business. But as we stated earlier, you know, you didn’t provide any justifications for the Commission in the event they chose to go that way. So do you have some verbal justification to support that, that you can, you know, just put it on the record? HONG: Sure. And the primary one which I have been mentioning from the beginning was this use in terms of the business had been pre-existed, you know, the Puna CDP. It has been long established in that community in terms of the water catchment business and the pool services. The second is, and you’ve heard some of the testimony, that it does support agricultural uses, not only through nurseries but also in terms of some of the other homes in the area. Certainly there’s health, welfare and safety of people in the area. And that has been actually pretty well document by, based on some of the testimony of the individuals from the general public. So that would be our justification, that it does support agricultural uses and it also preexisted, you know, the Puna CDP. And, finally, that it does, and there has been testimony about the business supporting other agricultural uses in addition. So based on that, we feel that there’s a justification. We would appreciate the opportunity to submit that written justification for the Commission’s further consideration to support the conditions that we’ve submitted. ISHIBASHI: Yeah, we’re going need that, seeing that the Puna Plan is kind of trumping us right now. So we’re going to need some justification. So, staff, I’m not sure how we’re going to handle this in regards to taking a vote. It would be the next meeting or come up with the language first? th ARAI: Well, your next Windward meeting is scheduled for December 5. And I’m not sure if the parties will agree that that will provide sufficient time in which to submit the draft arguments, I guess I can call it, in support of an approval of the water catchment component of the special th permit request. But if directed, I have enough time to place it on the agenda for December 5. HONG: I think it’s reasonable and I know Sue who, she’s leaving for Disneyland with her family tomorrow for about a week and a half so I know there’s nothing she would like better than at Disneyland to help work on those kinds of conditions and justification. LEE LOY: Just for clarification for the staff, if that is the will of the Commission I was just concerned about the notification process for that December hearing. Would that be the responsibility of the applicant or of the Department? 38 EXHIBIT A ARAI: Can you take care of it from Disneyland? We can take care of it because the Commissioners it appears will be making the request for the continuance. So it will be our responsibility. LEE LOY: Thank you. ARAI: Enjoy your trip. ISHIBASHI: Okay, Commissioners, pleasure of the body? We can defer this vote to next month once we come up with the language, or we can take action today, depending on what you guys want. ARAI: If inclined, I imagine the Commissioners would like to request a continuance of this hearing on this particular application in order to afford the applicant time to provide his justifications in support of an approval of both the school as well as the water catchment business, for the reasons as expressed by Mr. Hong, along with proposed conditions of approval. I think I captured it correctly. ISHIBASHI: Anyone interested in making that motion? MOSES: I move to make that motion as Daryn stated. HENKEL: Second. ISHIBASHI: Okay, it has been moved and seconded. Discussion? Everybody understand we’re going to be coming up with language and then presenting this and voting on this at our next th Commission meeting on the 5. GONZALES: Mr. Chairman? ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Gonzales. GONZALES: I’d just like to say, you know, with all due respect to the Director’s recommendation, I understand where you’re at with the CDPs and stuff. But I think we have lots of justification here to get this all hammered out, and paperwork in order; and we can come back and we can get it all right. Next meeting, right? Sounds good? ISHIBASHI: Okay, any further discussion, Commissioners? Okay, Maija. COTTLE: Mr. Chair, could you please clarify for me who made the motion and who seconded. ISHIBASHI: Moved by Commissioner Moses. 39 EXHIBIT A COTTLE: Okay. ISHIBASHI: Seconded by Commissioner Henkel. COTTLE: Thank you. Okay, the motion is to continue the hearing until the December Windward Planning Commission hearing in order to give the applicant time to provide justifications for an approval recommendation for the water catchment tank business, with proposed conditions of approval. Commissioner Moses? MOSES: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Henkel? HENKEL: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Gonzales? GONZALES: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Heaukulani. HEAUKULANI: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Miyasato? MIYASATO: Aye. COTTLE: Commissioner Ono? ONO: Aye. COTTLE: And Mr. Chair? ISHIBASHI: Aye. COTTLE: Okay, the motion to continue passes. C. GREENLAW: Thank you very much for all your time; and I really apologize for still not fitting the mold. ISHIBASHI: Thank you. The discussion ended at 12:19 p.m. 40 EXHIBIT A Respectfully submitted, Sharon M. Nomura, Secretary Windward Planning Commission 41 EXHIBIT A