HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-02-06HEARINGTRANSCRIPT-VINCENTTAI REZ13-167
WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAI‘I
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
FEBRUARY 6, 2014
Vincent Tai (REZ 13-167)
A regularly advertised hearing on the application of was called to
order at 10:13 a.m. in the County of Hawai‘i, Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi
Street, Hilo, Hawai‘i with Chairman Wallace A. Ishibashi, Jr. presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Wallace A. Ishibashi, Jr., Ronald Gonzales, Charles
Heaukulani, Gregory Henkel, Myles Miyasato, and Raylene Moses.
ABSENT AND EXCUSED: Stephen Ono.
ALSO PRESENT: Bobby Command (Deputy Planning Director), Molly Stebbins (Deputy
Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), William Brilhante (from 10:09
a.m. to 10:28 a.m. and from 10:58 a.m. to 12:01 p.m., Deputy Corporation Counsel for the
Planning Director), Kelly Gomes (from 10:02 a.m. to 11:20 a.m., Department of Public Works
Engineering Division), Daryn Arai (Planning Program Manager), Jeff Darrow (Staff Planner),
Maija Cottle (Staff Planner), and Sarah Hata-Finley (Secretary).
And approximately 15 people from the public in attendance.
APPLICANT: VINCENT T.C. TAI (REZ 13-167)
Application for a Change of Zone from a Multiple-Family Residential–2,500 square feet
(RM-2.5) to a Multiple-Family Residential–1,500 square feet (RM-1.5) zoning district for
approximately 3.292 acres of land. The subject property is located at the end of Hualālai Street,
just west of the Hualālai Street/Hale Nani Street intersection, Waiākea, South Hilo, Hawai‘i,
TMK: 2-4-028:009.
ISHIBASHI: Ok, moving on. Item 6. Applicant Vincent Tai, Rezoning 13-167. Maija?
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COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This was a, this item was continued from the October 30
[sic] Planning Commission hearing. The Commission at that time requested that the applicant
meet with his surrounding community to resolve some of the issues that they were concerned
with and then report back to the Commission. So, if it’s all right with the Commissioners, I’d
like to just give another brief overview since it’s been quite a few months since that hearing.
MOSES: Yes.
COTTLE: Good? Ok.
All right. The subject property is located in the South Hilo district in Downtown Hilo. You can
see Kapiolani Street on the right side of the slide. The police station is in this area that I’m
pointing to now. Hualālai Street runs makai, towards downtown in this location, and then
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Hualālai Street extends, to provide access to the subject property which is shown in a black
outline in a dark purple color. The dark purple color indicates the current zoning which is
Multiple Family Residential with a density of 2,500 square feet per, per lot or per area that they
can build. The requested zoning is RM-1.5 so the applicant is requesting a higher density. And
you can see the property to the north, it’s in brown, is currently zoned RM-1.5 which is similar to
what the applicant’s requesting. Surrounding properties to the south and the west are zoned
single family residential 7,500 square feet. That’s shown in the yellow color on the map. The
General Plan designation for the property is medium density urban. Medium density urban
allows for single family residential as well as multiple family residential, and also community
and commercial uses. So the request is consistent with the General Plan designation.
The applicant’s requesting a change of zone from Multiple Family Residential 2,500 square feet
to Multiple Family Residential 1,500 square feet. He is requesting the zoning in order to develop
an affordable housing project known as “Hualālai Court” and that will consist of 88 affordable
housing units.
This is the site plan that the applicant submitted when he originally requested this zoning back in
October, and the site plan has been changed after meeting with the community members, so I just
want to fast forward over this one, and show you the current proposal. Now you can see a
driveway access off of Hualālai Street, Hale Nani Street turns to the south in this area here, and
then loops around to the residents of the Hale Nani neighborhood to the south. You can see the
parking area for each of the units, and then the buildings are oriented mainly along the property
lines off of the parking areas. So the difference between the previous plan and the current plan is
you’ll notice one of the things that the neighbor’s requested was an additional setback, additional
building setback. The Zoning Code requires a 10-foot setback, and so that’s reflected here in this
plan. And you can see in the current proposal, the applicant has set back at least 20 feet from the
property lines. He’s also proposing to keep some of the existing vegetation on the site, and that’s
shown with these circles. Those are existing trees or shrubs that he is planning to keep on the
property and not remove so that it will serve as a buffer between the neighbors along Hale Nani
and the proposed development.
This is an aerial view of the property. Again, you have Hualālai Street providing access to the
property. This is Hale Nani Street, and these are the residences along Hale Nani Street. There’s
currently a single family dwelling and pool on the property which will be demolished if the
zoning is approved. And this aerial photo is from Google. It was from January of last year, and
I think it’s pretty representative of the vegetation that is currently on the property. You can see
the big trees and some shrubs.
This is a view of the end of Hualālai Street so the subject property is far back in this area. You
can see one of the concerns that’s been brought up by the neighbors is an increase in traffic. You
can also see that there’s a big wall here at the corner of Hualālai Street and Hale Nani and that
kind of limits the site distance. This is a very old wall that’s been there for many years. And
then this is another view of that wall. This is Hale Nani Street and it curves around to Hualālai
Street so the subject property is located off of the slide on the left side.
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The Planning Director is still recommending that a favorable recommendation be forwarded to
the County Council for this rezone request because the request is consistent with the General
Plan designation for the area which calls for more housing and commercial uses in Downtown
Hilo. There are several letters that you should have received in your package this morning, and I
just want to go through them. You should have a letter from Charlene Nishida dated
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February 4. You should have an email from David Martins dated February 5. A letter from
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Ann Toma dated January 26. And two-three-four, I think you have four letters from Mr. Tai
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dated November 4, November 20, December 11—I’m sorry five letters—December 29, and
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January 30. I think the December 29 letter and the January 30 letters were held after, were
written after Mr. Tai had the community meeting so they’re probably the more current letters and
most representative of the outcome of the community meeting. You should also have an email
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that Mr. Tai had sent to me dated December 31, and that email just generally goes over points
of agreement between Mr. Tai and the community and suggests some conditions that the
Planning Commission may want to consider. And, lastly, you should have a piece of paper with
five photos on it, and I’m not certain who submitted this. Maybe one of the testifiers can let us
know. (Note: This was submitted by Charlene Nishida, attached as Exhibit One to this
transcript.)
Are there any questions?
ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Maija. Commissioners, any questions for staff? Ok.
COTTLE: Oh, I’m sorry, Mr. Chair. I also want to add that we do have a representative here
from the Department of Public Works that can answer any questions related to flooding or traffic
if the Commission has them. Ok?
ISHIBASHI: Commissioners, I know that we just got this info this morning, so I’ll give you a
couple minutes. Try take a look at these letters and then we’ll proceed.
I’d like to call up the applicant. Mr. Tai, if you could come up, please? Good morning, Mr. Tai.
TAI: Good morning.
ISHIBASHI: Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth before the
Windward Planning Commission over this matter?
TAI: Yes, I do.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you so much. Please state your name and address for the record.
TAI: My name is Vincent Tai. The address is 2184 Roundtop Drive in Honolulu.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you. You may proceed.
TAI: First let me express my appreciation for allowing the continuance from the last time. As I
explained, I’ve been in business for a long time. I, I misunderstood. I thought that there would
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be another public meeting, hearing, for the planning project approval, so I thought this rezoning
is only the first public hearing and there will be a second when we deal with design which I
didn’t understand that. And obviously, I, I wanted to meet with the neighbors. It’s just that I
didn’t understand that I, there won’t be another public meeting for them to speak up.
I just got the two letters from Maija dated before yesterday, so I told Maija that I would respond
here in person instead of writing because it’s so many letters already. So let me just first respond
to Mrs. Toma’s letter, real brief here. And she mentioned that, that you know I have two
previous meeting planned and both cancelled on short notice for meeting, right. Actually, there
was only one was planned, and I was not the one who cancelled it. Let me explain. I wrote to a,
62 owners within 300 feet in trying to set up a meeting on November 14. I even bought plane
tickets to come over here. And just a few days before November 14, I got a phone call from
Maija, and I understand that Mrs. Nishida insisted that I should cancel that. She asked for, I give
them 10 days notice, and I was told it’s not enough. It should be a 30 days notice, and also she
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insisted that I should hire a facilitator. So because of that, the November 14 was cancelled, and
I cancelled my plane ticket as well. So, again, I sent another 62 letters to, for the second meeting
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which was December 18. Right, again, luckily that one did not get cancelled. Ok, I was glad
that a good number of attendees at that meeting, and I really appreciate their attendance, and I go
over that a little later.
Now, Mrs. Toma also raised a lot of questions like, you know, who should I call if someone
climb over the fence, you know, if someone park in front of my property. Those, I really cannot
answer those questions but I did in my statement, that obviously as the project sponsor, I have to
work with the traffic department, public work department, and resolve any issues that need to—a
deal with that I can be responsible, but there are things that outside of properties that a--. It’s a
city, you know, you know, there are traffic. Obviously, there will be a slight increase of traffic.
In fact, according to a TIAR, the traffic report, a, the impact was just almost negligent (sic). You
know, he was saying less than one second of delay, you know. But be that as it may, you know,
I’m not going into that because it was done by someone else.
And then, a, Mrs. Nishida’s letters, little bit more lengthy here. Maybe I should address that now.
A, I believe I comply with just about, just about everything that Mrs. Nishida asked for. She was
the only one that asked for the delay of the hearing, for the 30 days notice. She asked for
facilitator, I had complied with. But there are a few things that I did not agree with her. Number
one, she said this location, this here, this property, is not in the urban area which I disagree. Ok,
in fact, even the County, the city documents, the whole city, the town of Hilo, including this
property is considered urban area. Now, I think there is a big difference in interpretation that
may affect her thinking is what I am trying to say, ok? And also, she is a licensed appraiser, and
she claims that having workforce affordable housing nearby in a two-story building next door
would depress the property value which I disagreed because I have support, I have gone through
many of these sources from authorities saying that that is not the case, ok, and I can detail that a
little bit more. The fact, and also, I think the point is maybe urban appraisal is not Mrs.
Nishida’s area of expertise, which is perfectly fine, like even for doctors, you don’t go to an
oncologist if you want to have a heart transplant, right? I’m a licensed architect. If you come to
me, if you want me to design a hotel, I mean a hospital, I will know what to do. You know, I’m
a licensed architect, but we all have areas of expertise. So, I’m not trying to say or diminish Mrs.
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Nishida’s qualifications. All I’m saying is that maybe her expertise is not in the urban setting is
all I’m trying to say, you know. Because she pointed out that I have not agreed with the buffer
zone. First of all, I checked with Maija and she confirmed that for residential zoned areas,
properties, there is no buffer zone required. The section she stated applied for industrial
properties which I don’t think is appropriate because we’re really dealing with residential here.
So, it’s not appropriate for me to comply with an industrial zone buffer zone. But I’ll leave it up
to the Planning Director. If the Planning Director said well you still have to do it, then I’ll do it,
ok? But I don’t think it is appropriate because it is not industrial here. And, we talk about this
non-native plants and these things that grow in the wild, they’re all kinds of trees out there you
can see, ok? But this has nothing to do with the rezoning. If a problem exists now, it needs to be
resolved. In fact, about 3 months ago, I told Mrs. Nishida I would get another associate, who’s a
civil engineer, to identify the property line one more time, which she has fixed up here, and I
even sent that latest drawing to Mrs. Nishida. I said I need that so I that I can run the line to find
the exactly where the property line is because some trees could be in the neighbor’s properties,
some trees could be my property. We cannot see because it’s all trees out there, ok? Now, of
course, if there are non-native, they are invasive species, they need to be removed eventually,
whether I get the rezoning or not. Nothing to do with rezoning, ok? There are trees that are very
nice. There are mango trees, there are all these good looking trees. They should be kept. You
know, nobody wants to cut healthy trees. So again, she raised the question here that I said I
didn’t do it. Not, that’s not the case. In fact, I told her that after we got through all of these, we
walk the property, we make sure we run a straight string, show exactly where the property line is,
then we deal with this so called invasive species that move to grow into the neighbor’s property
which happens all the time, you know, because even in my house in Honolulu, ok? So that needs
to be dealt with but it’s nothing to do with the rezoning because that needs to be done no matter
what, ok?
And, also, this one about flooding that I didn’t respond. Now, perhaps she didn’t quite
understand what I told her or written in letters. The supposed stream is outside of my property,
so in fact it runs through my neighbor’s property. Now, if this water did come into my property
and create flooding and so on, I need to deal with even now or in the future, nothing to do with
the rezoning. In fact, the rezoning, I, I in the background statement, I stated a certain method
that I will use to get rid of water that is coming into the site so that all the water, the storm
drainage will be all done, on site, and none of the water will be flowing outside, but if outside
water coming in, something we need to resolve and Mr. Tim Wright is very kind. In fact, every
time, you know, something happen, he would send me pictures because I don’t live here. I really
appreciate his help and I told Tim that we together, him and me would approach the department
of public works and we sort out the easements, the problems, but the problem is completely
outside of my property. You know, down. He told me it’s underneath Popolo Street and also to
my neighbor’s property and then somehow it get into my property. So again, it had nothing to do
with this rezoning. It needs to be done. It needs to be resolved. In fact, if the project is
developed, they’re already certain methods to deal with groundwater and how to get rid of them.
Now, I know Mrs. Nishida complained that I did not have a landscaping plan. I also check with
Maija, and she confirmed that in the rezoning plan, you don’t require a landscape plan. When
you do, when you come to the building design, when you request for approval, then you do need
a landscaping plan. Now, I don’t, I think that Mrs. Nishida didn’t understand it because she’s a
layman. In my profession, landscaping plan is not a separate easel. It’s really an intergral part of
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the overall project design. You have to understand what kind of building is going to be there,
what it looks like, where the parking area is, how to create berms, or for any visual blockage, and
you plan the landscaping around the structures. And also that would be the time to survey which
are the trees that need to be cut down, removed, and rebuilt. I mean replant. So, I see that this is
a project. I mean the landscaping itself is not a separate easel. It really cannot be done at this
point because the design is only conceptual, and once you have exactly where the buildings are,
the height, where the windows are, then you do the landscape design. This is the correct way of
doing it, you know. And also, in terms of timing, I did agree hundred percent with Mrs. Nishida
that I would walk the space with her once the construction is just about finished when we start to
do landscaping, we would survey what are the existing trees in back of her property that need to
be kept or need to be removed, and I agreed that I would grow Arica palms as she suggested to
fill the gaps. I would agree to that, but not today. It’s too early to do that because we don’t
know exactly where things are now, and then after the building is completed just before we do
landscaping, that would be the time to do it. And already we do it in writing. Although I still
question you know what a 100 percent because these are plants, can’t control them. Ok, in fact,
one attendee, I think her name is Doreen Friberg, she disagreed with Mrs. Nishida that there
should be 100 percent blockage. She said she didn’t want that. You know, so it’s not fair for
Mrs. Nishida to speak for everybody else because they all have different ideas, but I did promise
Mrs. Nishida I would do that for her. But anyone who think that they need something more than
what is there now, and I also made the statement that I will be glad to meet with each of them if
they come to me, but I won’t impose that condition on these people because, like I said, at least
one person objected to that idea.
Ok, like I said the last time, if this project, if this location has not been a--under the current a
General Plan, and is prime for a, developing housing, I, and if affordable housing is needed, I
really want do the project, ok? I mean, I don’t want to force on anything that is unreasonable.
Now, this project, under the RM-1.1, 1.5, when you compare to the project that previously
approved under 2.5, and I have a table to show, to compare the two projects. This project under
RM-1.5, I intend to do affordable housing for the entire project, not just 20 percent or 25 percent
to satisfy the—it’s the entire project. It’s anywhere between 60 to 100 percent AMI. Now, I was
told if I’m correct for the last 30 years, no such project have ever built in Hilo. Maybe a small
amount built on the Kona side, I’m not sure. You see project that are low income, which is
between from zero to 50 percent, mostly 30 to 50 percent, but there is none 60 to 100 percent.
From my research, in the State of Hawai‘i, ok, between 60 to 100 percent is the most needed.
It’s the big gap that people are not doing. Either they do very low income or they want to go 140
percent which is actually higher than the most affordability, ok? But it’s still so called still
affordable. That’s why people do that so they can satisfy the 20 percent, right? And there’s a big
gap for the 60 to 100 percent. These are the people who needed the housing most. They are the
one who cannot afford market rate, but did not qualify for the low income. These are people that
maybe your friends are—students, city workers, fireman, policeman, working families. This is a
big gap, ok? Now, I own five or six properties in Hilo alone the last few years. I have two
properties owned what in 30 years, are condos, supposed to be nice. One in Bayshore and one in
right here, ok. I have no problem renting one bedroom. Of course, inexpensive, $1,100. I have
no vacancy whatsoever because a lot of people asking for this kind of housing. You know
$1,000 plus or minus. And they’re students. Half of those are students. Half maybe more than,
less half are nurses to come here for six months, ok? They told me that it is not easy to find this
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kind of housing, ok. They cannot afford $2-3,000 and they not qualify for low income, all right?
So, I believe what I’m doing here is, haven’t been done in Hilo at all. Even in the Kona side,
very limited. Even in Oahu, very limited, ok. So again, you know, I follow every rule,
everything according to the book, and the so-called workforce housing is needed in Hilo, this is
one opportunity here. Now, I went to see, I went to meet with the Honolulu office of the Hawai‘i
Finance and Development Corporation . They are the one who hand out the low income tax
credits. I met with Darren Ueki. He’s the finance manager. He spent more than half an hour
with me. First I asked him why he’s even want to talk to me. Now, he said two things. You may
or may not know, ok. First he said, oh good, this one’s in Hilo, and someone is willing to offer a
piece of property. He said there is lack of properties to really do a substantial project in Hilo,
number one. Number two, he said financially, it’s very difficult to do it in Hilo because the cost
of construction is so high. He said you have to watch your construction, you make sure, you
know, because otherwise you won’t make it, you know. I think I can make it, ok? And he told
me that if I can do it, I might have a good chance in winning one of the competitions for the low
income housing credits are nine percent is highly competitive. If I apply before January of next
year, I might have a good shot just because of nothing happening here, but of course he cannot
say that. He kind of encouraging me, ok? But then, he also stressed that 60 to 100 percent is a
real big gap. Very few people are doing that. So, I think in sincerity, I believe I met with almost
all the reasonable requests that my neighbors have raised, those that are even beyond what the
code requires. There are issues that I cannot deal with. There are questions that I cannot answer,
but I do know from reading newspapers, and going on line, that that affordable housing between
60 to a hundred percent AMI is badly needed in the whole State, and particularly in Hilo. Thank
you. Any questions?
ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Mr. Tai. Questions Commissioners? Thank you. Ok, we have public
testimony. Mrs. Nishida--Ms. Charlene Nishida, Alan Rudo, David Martins, Roy Toma,
Leatrice Kishii. If you could raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth
before the Windward Planning Commission over this matter?
TESTIFIERS: I do.
ISHIBASHI: Ok, thank you so much. Ok, start with Charlene, please.
NISHIDA: My name is Charlene Nishida, and I reside at 16 Hale Nani Drive in Hilo. You
know, I need to start off by saying Mr. Tai has on several occasions in written and in testimony
has absolutely made false statements that I’ve said, and I need to be very clear that these are
inaccurate and the two things that he quoted today, I have never said. And I need to be very clear
about that. That Mr. Tai has this ability to take things that people say and twist them into things
they have not said. I did not say anything that stating that Hilo was not, in our neighborhood,
was not in an urban area. I did not state that I was opposed to workforce housing developments
that would have, and that they would have a negative effect on our property values. I have never
said, and I need to be clear that letters he sent out that he’s quoting me as saying things. I have
not said and I need to be on record as saying that to you.
So, in moving forward, I wanted to, there’s a couple things that I want to point out, and I think
that first and foremost, as neighbors, we are not opposed to an affordable housing development
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at all. That has never been the majority of the neighbors that I’ve been speaking to, they’ve
never been in opposition to that. What the opposition is, is to the changing of the zone that
would increase the density in our backyards, in our neighborhood. If Mr. Tai would pursue an
affordable housing development at its current density, I don’t think that anyone would object. So
we need to be very clear that this is not about an affordable housing development. This is about
increasing the density and the issues that come up as a result of that. Mr. Tai cites in his
different letters, he’s making references that the studies that he’s showing and the research that
he’s stating that show no impact on property values when a development is well designed and
managed similar to neighboring houses. Well, this change of zoning, he’s not comparing apples
to apples. If it was, these studies are all of affordable housing developments where they’re
residential and the neighborhood is residential, what he’s proposing is an affordable housing
development that’s apartment buildings. So you can’t use that research and apply it to this
situation. He needs to be taking research that shows how property values are affected when you
are in a residential single family situation and then you become surrounded by apartment
buildings. That’s the research that he needs to be providing and that he hasn’t. I will say that as
an appraiser, when I am appraising a property, I am required to report if the property that I am
appraising as a residential appraiser, if there’s a parking lot adjacent to it, whether it’s an
apartment building or a commercial complex, it’s something that has to be disclosed, and you
have to use comparable residential properties that have that similar attribute. If you can’t find
them, then you have to disclose that information and you have to make negative adjustments in
your determination of market value for that property, so I don’t see how Mr. Tai can say that
these are not going to, that having an apartment building that is visible, is going to be something
that is not going to negatively affect our property values. I think if you talk to any residential
appraiser, they will tell you we are required to disclose that and we are required to write
comparables that have that similar attribute. And it’s not common. It’s not something that’s
common. If any of you have recently had your houses appraised, I think you would find that the
comparables that are used in your homes, and you don’t have parking lots of comparables that
were used in your reports.
One of the things that I provided to you was this picture that actually shows, the top two photos
are from our backyard staring into Mr. Tai’s development. The middle photo is from the front of
our yard, and then the two bottom photos are just samples of houses in the area. (See Exhibit 1 to
this transcript.) What we have requested from Mr. Tai in the community meeting that was held
here and was—this whole room was full—every seat was taken, it was a very well-attended
community meeting. What I’m, one of the things that I’ve asked for is a buffer yard setback, not
because its required, but because it’s a way to minimize the visual effect of having a two-story
apartment style development, that we would be looking at. If it would be the way to minimize
that effect on our property values. The current landscaping that he is saying is adequate is
overgrown weeds. It’s invasive trees. It’s things that aren’t currently being maintained. So, he’s
saying there’s no need for a buffer yard setback because of what’s in place right now is
sufficient. Well, any planned development, that’s something that you can’t maintain this. This
is not something that is adequate. I think that it’s within reason to ask that the land, that there be
a buffer yard setback that will minimize what we’re actually visually looking at. What we, I
think as neighbors, I think our bottom line is we oppose the development at an increased density.
We would encourage the development at its current density. We are not in support of a rezoning
to increase the density. There’s just too many unknowns. Whenever there’s been specific
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questions asked of Mr. Tai, he, his common response is that well this is a conceptual design. It’s
a proposed design. It’s subject to change later on. Well, we don’t have the opportunity later on
as neighbors to give any input. Right now is our time to be able to have these things done as
conditional requirements, and that’s what we’re asking. We’re either asking, as a Nishida
family, we’re asking that this increase in density be denied, but if it’s not for whatever reasons,
then we are asking that these conditional requirements be attached to the development so that it
ensures that we’re protected for the future and it’s not something that’s just a proposed or
conceptual idea. Thank you.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Mrs. Nishida. Any questions for the testifier. Commissioners? Ok.
Mr. Rudo? You can go, can go next.
RUDO: Good morning.
ISHIBASHI: Good morning--
RUDO: Thank you, Commissioners.
ISHIBASHI: State your name and address for the record please.
RUDO: My name is Alan Rudo. I’m with the Office of Housing at 50 Wailuku. I’m a housing
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and community development specialist. Um, my personal residence is 15-1812 30 Avenue,
Kea‘au, Hawai‘i.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you.
RUDO: Sure. Um, every three to five years the County of Hawai‘i has performed what’s called
a housing policy study, the last one was a Hawai‘i Housing Planning Study done 2011 by SMS
Research and it was um done in conjunction with the other counties in the State of Hawai‘i
defined what the stock was, what kind of need there is, what kind of gap there is, island by
island. Um, this study looked at the total units needed from 2012 to 2016 both for the State and
for the County. For rental units within our island, there is a gap of 1,753 units. Um, in the
number, the percentages of area median income of 30 to 60 um percent of median income, there
is about 406 units that are um in the gap right now. Um, we’ve been completing several projects
on the County level, and most of them have been in Kona. We are finding that with the help of
HHFDC--that’s Hawai‘i Housing Finance Development Corporation, a non-profit—we are able
to get some of the units in the 30 to 50 percent, um but Mr. Tai’s testimony to be doing in the 60
to the 100 is probably the most difficult area of um satisfying because of the lack of um
financing available from public entities. Um, yeah, right now, that we’re looking below um 30
percent of median income, we would need somewhere around 770 units. This study done by
SMS was done in 2011 and was anticipating regular number of units being built. I actually
believe that because of the slowdown that this gap is actually higher. Um, the total units in
Hawai‘i County that are needed including ownership are 3,514. So, we can see that there is a
dire need and um he has been working with our office on this project, um because when he—if
he is granted this change of zone, he’ll have a requirement to do at least 20 percent affordable
housing. Um, he’s come to our office and recommended that he do a 100 percent affordable
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housing, and we would require him to do an agreement, um to that level, um to be able go after
um some of the financing and things that he’s asked for as well. So we’re anticipating that as
well. Um, that’s actually all I have unless you have any questions.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Mr. Rudo.
RUDO: Sure. Thank you.
ISHIBASHI: We can, have any questions Commissioners? For that testifier? Ok, thank you,
moving on if we can have Mr. Martins next.
MARTINS: I’m David—
ISHIBASHI: State your name and address please? Thank you.
MARTINS: David Martins. My address is 815 Kūkūau Street. I have a home that I lived in at
Hale Nani place since 1974. I stayed there roughly about ten years and I’ve kept the house and
used it as a rental and throughout the time, one of the main problems that I saw over there was
the problems with water coming in during a heavy rain. There is sufficient drywells in the area,
but when we had a heavy rain, the water would be coming out of the drywells. We would have
so much rain, it couldn’t handle, and the water coming out of the drywells would flood the street,
Hale Nani Street. So now if you’re gonna be taking away more land in the back or building
more units, this may still cause more of a problem as far as the flooding in the area. Now, with, I
don’t oppose a 2.5. I, I feel that going down to the 1.5 would be even worse for the area. There
was another property that was approved to the 1.5, and yet, nothing has been done on that
property. It’s still sitting there. So, if this is approved down to 1.5, when will the development
begin? Will it just stay at 1.5 and maybe wait several more years before anything is done or
maybe it be sold? One of my things is if this is approved to 1.5, there should be something stated
that they should start building within a certain time zone, not keep it for the future and make a
profit. Traffic in the area will increase dramatically. People coming out from Hale Nani Street
will encounter cars coming out from the proposed development. You’re talking 88 units, if it
was approved, you’re talking roughly 166 cars or somewhere in that area. And a—that’s not
right—putting the people in that subdivision that has been approved down to cramping of the
area, and putting more people into the area that was a, was approved in the past. Now, the crime
element, what’s going to happen to that with 88 units in the area? Will the police be able to
come in, in proper time? Is what kind of people are going to be staying there. We cannot say.
But, when you start putting a lot of people in, and you don’t have a control over that, that’s a
high possibility that you have the wrong type of element in the area. And basically, that’s my
opposition to the 1.5. Thank you.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you Mr. Martins. Any questions of this testifier? Commissioners? Ok,
moving on, Mr. Toma?
TOMA (from audience): Before I testify, I’d like to give, sorry I didn’t make the copies, but I’d
like to show you what I personally did in my report. (Please see Exhibit 2 attached to this
transcript.)
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ISHIBASHI: Thank you. If you can state your name and address for the record please.
TOMA: My name is Roy Toma, and I live on 44 Hale Nani Street in the back of the
st
development. On January 31, on Friday, I was on the corner of Hualālai and Kapiolani Street
mauka, taking traffic count. During the hours of 7 to 7:15. Now when I say traffic count, I’m
talking cross, crossroads. From 7 to 7:15 , there was 105 cars; 7:15 to 7:30, there was 152 cars;
then on 7:30 to 7:45, the busiest time, was 170 cars involved in that area; and finally at 7:45 to 8
o clock, it was 153 cars. Total of 580 cars in that area alone for one hour, plus one bicycle was
going Puna side. So right now, we accept the 2.5. The bad part about it is there’s no exit road on
this new development. It’s in and out of Hualālai. With this density, the traffic is going to be
tremendous. We will not be able to get in and out of Hale Nani Street. So as I say, if you folks
need to deny this new change, and leave it at 2.5. Thank you.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Mr. Toma. Any questions for the testifier? Ok, thank you, Mr. Toma.
KISHII: Oh, my name is Leatrice Kishii. I live on 30 Hale Nani Street. And I, excuse me, my
main concern was the traffic and it has been discussed so I don’t have anything more to add
except that the, like he said, there’s no, there’s only one outlet, in, for that 88 ah, what you, 88 ah
units. So, I would think that, that a, like I said, like he mentioned the traffic going be the main
problem. It’s actually up, you know there’s an S turn over there. There’s a blind corner two
ways. Now when I’m going leaving for to go out, I have to slow down before I reach the corner
because people are coming in, instead of staying on their side of the line, they’re right in the
middle. So if I was, kept on going, I would be, have an accident. Now, there haven’t, I have
lived there for 44 years. Now, they haven’t been—a—any major accidents except for one driver
that plowed into the neighbor’s fence, but aside from that, there hasn’t been any accident, but if
we have those 88 units plus, 88 or so many cars, I would think there would be accident, and that
would be his fault. That’s all I can say.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you, Mrs. Kishii. Any questions for the testifier, Commissioners?
Anybody else from the audience would like to testify over this issue?
Ok, this is--our main concern was trying to address the issue that the community had, that’s why
we had, you know had extended this vote, trying to get the feedback and mana‘o from all of you,
and give Mr. Tai the opportunity to try and fix, or at least address your concern. So, that’s what
we wanted to do. Ok, seeing no questions, you may be, you may be seated. Thank you so much.
Mr. Tai? I had one question in regards to the parking.
TAI: Oh yes.
ISHIBASHI: You know from your first phase, the first plan you had to the second, what, the
parking changed?
TAI: No, it would comply with the parking requirement, it’s 1.25 per unit—one thing that I
should clarify, this, because this is going to be, the entire project is going to be affordable
housing, between 60 to 100 percent, these are smaller units. They’re mainly one bedrooms and
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studio units. Compare with the project that I proposed under the RM-2.5, they all mainly 2-
bedroom units and 2 stories. Ok, so, when you compare the two projects, actually the one under
RM-1.5 is smaller in terms of buildable bedrooms, in terms of the total area, just because of the
nature of the project. Because for affordable housing, you cannot afford to build large units, you
know, because of cost of construction, you know, the studios are in the three hundred eighties
square foot range; the one bedrooms are between maybe 580 to 600, that’s the going, you know,
and there’s only maybe a few two bedrooms, so actually this is something that I am trying to
convey to the neighbors even though the zoning has changed, actually the project is smaller.
And also because I have to be really have to conserve the cost, that’s one reason I asked for
change in a, density, because you do need that density to make the project work, number one.
Ok? And number two, because these are smaller units, I can pack them closer together so they
stay away from the neighbors farther than the previous one. The previous one, all the houses are
right almost right against the property. You know, because they’re town homes. And, the latest
change, and I’m hundred percent sure, the closest is 20 feet, which is actually at an upward
angle, ok, touching the corner. Everywhere else, are 30 to 50 feet setback. The previous change
didn’t have that, so actually if you don’t look at the zoning either with 1.5 or 2.5, just looking at
the project itself, the lastest project proposal is substantially smaller and less impact than the
previous RM-2.5. I know, you know, the neighbors concern with the density, but in my
profession, in development profession, it’s a number of units, the number and a square footage,
you know, it’s really not the zoning itself, because I made a commitment to do affordable
housing, 100 percent of them, that really restricted me to do smaller footprints. So I wish the
Planning Commissioners can see that point. It’s really not the zoning change. It’s really the
project itself has changed, and I believe it’s only a 5-year window for me to, a proceed with the
project. If not, this is out. You know, so my time frame is kind of tight here. But again I stress
that you have to look at the project itself and not the zoning. The zoning only allow me to have
more units, but they’re smaller units, so the impact actually is small. And also people with one
bedroom unit, not necessarily have two cars. In fact 80 percent of the renters from my building
up here, they don’t have cars. Most of them are students. They use a bike. In fact they like the
idea when I was talking to UH, the vice president on housing, that he really liked the idea of
Kapiolani Street eventually come, come through, because then will allow student to actually ride
the bike straight through. You know, without going even out, down to Kino‘ole and then up the
hill. You know, so again, you know, it’s not true that the assumptions everyone that would even
have two cars. That’s the magic of doing downtown development or, or in city center
development. It’s people who don’t need cars, they don’t want a car. If they could walk, if they
could bike, they rather do that. If this is out in Puna, you know, another ten miles away, they
have to drive, you know. And this is a perfect so called in field urban site. Any urban planner
look at it will tell you that. This is the perfect location for that. Close to school, close to
downtown, close to a lot of struct—but again I urge the Planning Commission to look at that.
Look at, it’s the project itself, and not the zoning. The zoning is only one element and because
my statement it’s in writing, I’m doing the entire project 100 percent affordable. That means I’m
restricted to do certain things. All the bed-all the bathroom will be ADA compliance, a, you
know, this is unusual if it’s for market rehousing, you don’t have to do that. Um, but this is
something that I urge again the Commission to look at. It’s the project itself.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Tai. Any questions Commissioners? Ok, seeing
none. So, a motion is in order.
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MIYASATO: Mr. Chair, could we have public works?
ISHIBASHI: Ok. We could have a representative from the public works come up please.
Question Commissioner Miyasato?
MIYASATO: Yeah, you know we had some concerns from Mr. Martins on the flooding, and we
had some comments from Mr. Tai where he stated that he has a run-off coming from an adjacent
property and if it comes through his property then I guess he kind of said in so many words that
it’s like his, it’s not his, a--, to deal with or whatever how he stated it. You have some, a, if it
comes from another property, is it his still, it’s still his obligation to contain it and I guess so, Mr.
Martins concern is that, is the flooding in this area a concern, a big concern.
GOMES: Well, the flooding in the area—
ISHIBASHI: Excuse me brother, could you state your name and address for the record.
GOMES: My name is Kelly Gomes. My address is 1703B Ainaola Drive, Hilo, Hawai‘i. The
properties adjacent to Mr. Tai’s property, there is a designated drainage easement and the water
should flow in that designated drainage easement, and that easement is a private easement, and
shall be maintained by those private entities that own the drainage ditch.
MIYASATO: Ok is, so if it does overflow, which was stated that it does overflow, it should be
contained within the development?
GOMES: Well, it should, it should pass. It should, it should flow downstream and then
shouldn’t go into Mr. Tai’s development. It should be contained in the drainage ditch.
MIYASATO: Ok, thank you.
ISHIBASHI: I get one question. What would this project add to the flooding to the adjoining
properties? The neighbors?
GOMES: Mr. Tai is required to mitigate his developmental runoff so whatever more he creates
through impervious errors, he is required by code to mitigate that and that should be done by
drywells.
ISHIBASHI: Thank you. Any further questions? Commissioners?
GONZALES: Mr. Chairman, I have a question--
ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Gonzales.
GONZALES: I have a question for staff. Sorry to bring staff back up if I could.
ISHIBASHI: Ok, Maija.
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GONZALES: Thank you. Looking at the recommendation, that I wonder if you have it on your
display up there, you make mention to the Lanikila homes public housing project. Can you show
us where that is—
COTTLE: Sure.
GONZALES: --in relation?
COTTLE: Oh boy--
GONZALES: Maybe--
COTTLE: I believe it’s off the slide. Let’s see, in this area here.
GONZALES: Ok, and that’s zoned RD-3.75. What does that mean?
COTTLE: RD? That’s double residential and it’s basically, it allows for, it’s townhomes,
apartments, it can be a mix, but they’re usually attached units, not single family units. So, it’s
kind of an in between-between single family residential which you have at a single home and
then the multi-family which is like apartments, townhomes. RD can be like also duplexes,
triplexes.
GONZALES: Ok, I think I understand, and you also make mention that there are some add—
some other properties to the north that are, have recently been rezoned to RM-1.5.
COTTLE: That’s correct.
GONZALES: Would you be able to point those out?
COTTLE: Sure. That would be this property here.
GONZALES: So, that’s already been zoned the same zoning that Mr. Tai is asking for now?
COTTLE: Correct. That was rezoned I believe in 2009 or 2010—
GONZALES: As far as you know—
COTTLE: --and at that time, the developer was proposing a 100 units, I believe it was a 4-story
townhome development.
GONZALES: Is that still in the planning?
COTTLE: There’s been no movement on it. And with that rezoning, as well as any rezoning the
Council approves, there’s always a condition that says you have to develop within five years or
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they can come back for an administrative time extension. After they exhaust that, they have to
come back to the Commission and the County Council for another time extension so—
GONZALES: Ok, you said that was 2009?
COTTLE: 2009.
GONZALES: So they’re just about up.
COTTLE: Yeah.
GONZALES: Ok, thank you.
COTTLE: You’re welcome.
ISHIBASHI: Ok, a motion is in order. Commissioners?
GONZALES: Mr. Chairman, I’d like to make a motion that we a send a—
ISHIBASHI: Mr. Gonzales.
GONZALES: —favorable recommendation to the County Council for Change of Zone
Application 13-167.
HENKEL: Second.
ISHIBASHI: Seconded by Commissioner Henkel. Ok, we are open for discussion. Comments?
GONZALES: This is a—you know, we got--obviously we have concerned community members
here and this is kind of a toughy the way, it kind of looks like you’re surrounded, you know, the
change is coming. Um, if this, if the vote passes and this goes to the County Council, I would
urge you to please take it up there also. Mr. Tai, I would, I would strongly urge you to, if this
goes through, to please be a good neighbor and keep continuing to address these concerns.
ISHIBASHI: Commissioner Henkel?
HENKEL: Yeah, I also think the concerns of the neighbors are valid but I think there is a severe
need for --this type of housing, and I—and I truly believe that a--Mr. Tai is doing everything that
he can to mitigate the concerns of the neighbors.
ISHIBASHI: I understand. Thank you, Commission Henkel. Any further questions, comments
Commissioners?
AUDIENCE: (Nishida): Can you address the conditional requirements that Mr. Tai stated that
he would agree to? If he was allowed to be, allowed the change of zone application.
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COTTLE: Mr. Chairman, I was just going to ask the Commission, I just want to draw your
attention to the goldenrod recommendation, and I want to ask whether the Commission wants to
forward those conditions or whether they want to add any conditions to address the community
concerns.
GONZALES: I think that my motion would be a--to a--approve with the conditions as stated.
COTTLE: Thank you.
ISHIBASHI: Ok, we clear on that? Henkel?
GONZALES: That’s good.
HENKEL: That’s good. Second.
ISHIBASHI: Ok, still open for discussion? Ok, Maija.
COTTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The motion is to send a favorable recommendation to the
County Council for the change of zone request to RM-1.5 as stated in the Planning Director’s
recommendation. Commissioner Gonzales?
GONZALES: Aye.
COTTLE: Commissioner Henkel?
HENKEL: Aye.
COTTLE: Commissioner Heaukulani?
HEAUKULANI: Aye.
COTTLE: Commissioner Miyasato?
MIYASATO: Aye.
COTTLE: Commissioner Moses?
MOSES: Aye.
COTTLE: And Mr. Chair.
ISHIBASHI: Aye.
COTTLE: Ok, the motion passes six, zero.
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ISHIBASHI: Ok, thank you Commissioners. You will be notified in writing Mr. Tai. You’ll be
notified in writing.
This discussion ended at 11:20 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary
Windward Planning Commission
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