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Home My WebLink About2013-09-23 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: September 23, 2013 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawai’i County Building, Aupuni Center Conf Room 101 Pauahi St., Ste 1, Hilo HI 96720 CALL TO ORDER: At 6:30 pm by Chair Anthony “Tony” Sylvester. ROLL CALL: Per Bobby Command: Willie-Joe Camara, District 1 Dwayne “Ike” Yoshina, District 2 Anthony “Tony” Sylvester, District 3 Paul Bueltmann, District 4 Tom Lodge, District 5 District 6 – Kenneth “Kalani” DeCoito Rob White – District 7 (on his way) Mark Bartell – District 8 (on his way) District 9 – Vacant - Cleon Bailey has resigned Quorum established. ALSO PRESENT : Bobby Command, Deputy Planning Director Lincoln Ashida, Corporation Consul Char Shigemura, Mayor’s Executive Assistant GUESTS: Mr. William Aila, DLNR Chair Lisa Hadway, Dept. of Forestry & Wildlife Branch Manager EXCUSED : Barbara Kossow, GMAC Secretary INTRODUCTION OF COMMISSION MEMBERS AND GUEST SPEAKER, DLNR CHAIR WILLIAM AILA APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF August 26, 2013 1 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 A motion was made by W. Camara to defer the approval of the minutes/ Seconded by T. Lodge. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. PUBLIC TESTIMONY ON AGENDA ITEMS: None REPORTS/SPECIAL COMMITTEE PRESENTATION: Chair Sylvester: GMAC’s responsibility is to advise various government agencies on sustainable subsistence hunting and fishing, as well as protect traditional cultural gathering rights, GMAC is particularly interested in learning the status of: A) The Hawai’i Game Management Plan; B) The Pu’u Wa’awa’a and Pu’u Anahulu Habitat Conservation Plan; C) The Dollar contribution made by the USFW to DLNR programs and the percentage this represents in the DLNR budget; D) Mr. Aila’s thoughts as to the impact(s) of priority 1 and 2 of the State’s Watershed Protection Plan on Sustainable hunting and fishing, as well as protection of traditional cultural gathering rights. A. THE HAWAI’I GAME MANAGEMENT PLAN Mr. Aila: The Hawai’i Game Management Plan is in draft form right now. DLNR is In the process of hiring another game biologist as well as a program manager. Once vacancy is filled within the next month or so, Mr. Aila will be able to update GMAC. B. THE PU’U WA’AWA’A AND PU’U ANAHULU HABITAT CONSERVATION PLAN Mr. Aila: The Pu’u Wa’awa’a and Pu’u Anahulu Habitat Conservation Plan – Some of you have received scoping letters. The consultant, Garcia and Associates has a draft EA. Folks who are interested may go to the DLNR website or you may call the consultant for a copy and to be placed on the mailing list. Your input to the draft EA is welcomed. C. THE DOLLAR CONTRIBUTION MADE BY THE USFW TO DLNR PROGRAMS AND THE PERCENTAGE THIS REPRESENTS IN THE DLNR BUDGET Mr. Aila: With regard to the dollar contribution made by US Fish and Wildlife Service to DLNR programs, and the percentage this represents in the DLNR 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 budget, I asked staff to break this up because we have game management grants and non-game management grants. So the grants involved with game management come up to about $2 million dollars per year, they’re assigned to specific tasks such as how many surveys are done across the State. How many operational personnel are funded to do these things. There’s a very specific plan and we can make that plan available to the commission and members of the public. We get between $10 million and $20 million dollars a year for non-game management competitive grants. So at any time there could be a pool of about $20 million dollars of which some years are multiple years in the grant. And these are used for invasive species, these are used for pertinent endangered species, these are used for conservation plans, there are any number of reasons that these are used. So if you take the $20 million dollar, which is generous, and consider that our annual operating budget for the department is about $120 million dollars a year. It comes out to about just slightly less than 20% of DLNR’s budget. If you take the $2 million that comes out to about 1 ½ % of DLNR’s budget. If you take DLNR’s $120 million operating per year to the State budget it’s less than 1% of the State budget. So it gives you an idea of the scale of how money goes through and how money compares to other programs within the department as well as other programs within the State of Hawai’i. D. YOUR THOUGHTS AS TO THE IMPACT(S) OF PRIORITY 1 AND 2 OF THE STATE’S WATERSHED PROTECTION PLAN ON SUSTAINABLE HUNTING AND FISHING, AS WELL AS PROTECTION OF TRADITIONAL CULTURAL GATHERING RIGHTS Mr. Aila: With regards to my thoughts on the impacts priority 1 and 2 of the State’s Watershed Protection Plan on sustainable hunting and fishing, as well as protection of traditional cultural gathering rights, it will be on a site specific process so if we have 5% currently of the priority watersheds in the State protected now, and the goal is to double it basically another 5% to make it 10%, it still leaves about 10% of the areas that we have either in forest reserves or other DOFAW controlled properties available for other uses. So with regards to my thoughts on this, is it’s a small price to pay to ensure that our children and our grandchildren continue to get drinking water in the near future because we know that things are changing right now. Just look around you, the amount of rainfall is getting less and less. All the models from different agencies clearly show that we’re going to see 15 to 30% difference over the next 10 to 30 to 40 years. As the head of the department right now, adding another 5% to priority watershed protection is a small price to pay to ensure our grandchildren will have a reliable source of water to drink and a reliable way of protecting our forests so that we prevent sedimentation from entering streams and entering into the near shore reefs as well as allowing for the recharge of our ground water supplies and making sure that the other part of the Governor’s initiative – which is not part of the rain forest, but it’s part of making sure that we have enough water for agriculture and other uses in the State of Hawai’i is to bring up the maintenance and repairs of dams and reservoirs in the State of Hawai’i. So if we take care of 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 our watersheds and we repair the dams and reservoirs to the point that they’re safe and can hold the maximum amount of water then we have the maximum of water for agricultural needs as well as recreational needs as well as recharge needs. It’s part of this overall protection of the near shore reef waters, by protecting the forests and making sure we have water storage capacity in times of less rainfall going forward, which I can tell you from all the models indicate that that’s going to happen. And so you have my thoughts and I know that there are many folks that are interested in asking questions. Chair Sylvester: We’ll start with members of the commission first and then will allow the public to ask you questions. OK we’ll start with the Hawai’i Game Management Plan. Commissioners do you have anything for Mr. Aila? T. Lodge: How important is the game biologist and how much of the game biologist responsibilities will be the Hawai’i Game Management Plan. Mr. Aila: It will be a major part of the new game biologist’s responsibilities to finish off the Hawai’i Game Management Plan as soon as practical. That’s gonna take some input from the new Program Manager who we still have to hire. It will also take some input from Fish and Wildlife Service understanding where they want to do some of the critical habitat designation. No sense we come up with a plan and Fish and Wildlife Service kind of goes well forget that plan because all of the areas that you have highlighted for increase game management opportunities are in what we call critical habitat. So I would rather we do it correctly and take a little bit more time as we said correctly… T. Lodge: How much are – we’re supposed to be a sovereign state here, right, but how much are we deferring all of the decisions to the federal government? Mr. Aila: The question was how much of the decisions game management and resource management to the federal government and the answer is we work cooperatively. The State of Hawai’i is not a rubber stamp to them and we \[unclear\] that we feel that they’re doing incorrectly \[unclear\] assessment or criteria \[unclear\] to prepare criteria that they are using that has to be, could be improved. I think you need to consider some suggestions. And at some point, though, under Section 6 and under Section 7 we do have to pay attention to what they’re saying in such a way that it won’t violate federal law. If there’s a case where \[unclear\] violation of a federal law we will assert to the fullest extent from the state’s jurisdiction our ability to control our lands and our programs. \[Unclear\] just to see where they may designate critical habitat – it’s just being precautionary you know - no sense we come up with a plan and they say, hey, there’s a threat to endangered species there that we want to exercise our jurisdiction over and your plan goes out of whack. T. Lodge: Will our plans always be in jeopardy because of the federal government? 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: The question is, will the Game Management Plan the State of Hawai’i creates - will always be in jeopardy because of the federal government – the short answer is only where there are threatened and endangered species present. If there’s no threatened and endangered species present then… For the last two years – we’ve been working on recognizing that the rainfalls of the forest is going to basically remove ungulates from an additional 5% of the area. We have been in discussion with the federal government – meaning the Fish and Wildlife Service – saying hey – before you take a look at designating critical habitat outside of our areas – give our areas consideration first. So that would help what we believe having larger landscape scale areas that are already gonna be protected – have them considered by Fish and Wildlife Service for as \[unclear\] so that we don’t have Fish and Wildlife Service doing something someplace and the state doing something someplace and national parks doing something someplace. Try to work together to find the best areas that it makes sense for all three of our agencies to work together so that we don’t get \[unclear\] limit other areas that could be used for game management. So if you were asking which areas right now we can’t tell you because Fish and Wildlife Service hasn’t shared that with us. T. Lodge: That’s right and the red and mustard areas represent the areas that are priority 1 and priority 2 of which are to be eradicated. Mr. Aila: Of which are to be fenced, yes. T. Lodge: No, eradicated. The plan itself says to remove the ungulates from those areas. Mr. Aila: Correct T. Lodge: And, so you’re saying that, that represents 5%? Mr. Aila: It would represent 10%. T. Lodge: So the entire island is what that represents as far as the forest. Chair Sylvester: We’re confused by this map, it’s 5 or 10%. Please clarify. L. Hadway: So within that area 5% is already protected and the goal is to be at 10%. The whole red area is identified as priority 1 and priority 2 watersheds. But right now we have 5% protected. The ten year goal is to have 10% protected. It would be with fences and with the animals removed from those areas. T. Lodge: Right but for the watershed plan \[unclear\] that very first item is to remove all ungulates from priority 1 and priority 2 areas. Not just fencing. 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Remove all invasive \[unclear\] animals from priority 1 and priority 2 areas. That’s that entire red and mustard area that’s the entire island. Chair Sylvester: Is this like a wish list for future, for next 100 years or is that inevitably what we’re approaching. Mr. Aila: It’s the 10 year plan. Chair Sylvester: The 10 year plan is only 5% or 10% of this but eventually it’s going to be all that. I mean if you guys had the money and the manpower is it a go now or just 10%. Mr. Aila: That’s the plan right now \[unclear\] Fish and Wildlife Service in some of those areas – some of that can change. Man: \[Unclear\] they don’t want any ungulates in our forest. Man: No. I mean there are plenty other areas in that forest that probably \[unclear\]. Man: \[Unclear\] the priority of that plan is to remove the ungulates. Mr. Aila: Part of the plan is – to remove ungulates isn’t the only part of the plan. Removing invasive species is part of the plan. In some cases, replanting, reforesting natives is also part of the plan. W. Camara: But removing ungulates is the #1 \[unclear\] in your plan. Mr. Aila: Yes. W. Camara: If I may… \[Unclear\] and I showed you this and you told me this was just a draft. Is it still a draft? Because it hasn’t changed since… Mr. Aila: It’s a plan that can only go as far and quick as funding becomes available. W. Camara: So it’s a plan, not a draft? \[Group discussion\] T. Lodge: Being that a watershed plan is through with all of the ungulates – do you think it’s not important that we start focusing immediately on other areas that we can start preparing the areas for ungulates – we have a game management area in Pu’u Wa’awa’a right now which nothing is being done with over the years… We have other areas that haven’t been addressed. \[tape disturbance\] 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 removing all of the animals here, shouldn’t we be doing – I mean who \[tape disturbance\]? Is there like a \[unclear\]? Mr. Aila: So to answer your question, yes, you should be doing that also. And I think as my deputy explained to you last time that she was here we will be going to the legislature to seek additional funds to do exactly what you said. T. Lodge: OK. Mr. Aila: So we agree with you that we should be doing both things simultaneously. We should be making hunting area more available to you, more robust as we implement the rain forest plan. So we look forward to your testimony and support. K. DeCoito: You know we’re talking about self-sustainability. Do you feel that the hunters – we hunt – are doing this for self-sustainability? What is your take on that? What do, how do you feel with us hunters in the forest is what I’m trying to get at? As far as us guys gathering, hunting or living off the land? Mr. Aila: Well, the short answer is I think it’s great that people are hunting and supplementing what they bring home to eat. There’s no problem with that. We see that as part of management. So moving forward as I answer the question – we will be very much supportive and our plans are to go to the legislature to ask for additional monies to increase the amount of – help hunting opportunities. We are in constant communication with private landlords, we are in constant communication with the army, we are in constant communication with other federal agencies to see where we can increase the opportunities for hunters to hunt. We know that you’re upset. We know that the rainfall forest plan feels like it’s threatening you. We know that, so to balance that we’re looking at other opportunities. K. DeCoito: Yeah. We wanna look for balance. We need some kind of balance here. I appreciate you came. I hope you’ll come back and sit down and we’re not on a time table, we can sit down and actually talk. Go over things because we have not had a chance to meet with you folks at all. Now Miss Hadway is in there before with Mr. Imoto, now it’s Lisa Hadway. We have no working communication. Us guys were cut off, completely cut off. We’re losing all the land we get here is going from us. And now this rainfall for the forest, you guys are adding as you say another 5% or another 10%. When you look at our island we have here, we’re strategically all the centuries the best of the best we’ve had is gone. So for us to be self-sustainable and go hunt it’s so hard for us to go gather. So we really don’t have anything left, so if you could make an opportunity to come back and talk with us so we can get some meat and potatoes so we can actually try to figure out a solution here. 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: With regards to Pu’u Wa’awa’a and Pu’u Anahulu, we’re looking at habitat conservation plan but much of that land is gonna be available for hunting. So don’t let the habitat conservation plan scare you because there is a place for hunting within that habitat conservation plan, within the general area. K. De Coito: It would take a while for us to sit and talk; we don’t have time to do that now. Chair Sylvester: I’m gonna get back to the commissioners first and get our questions through and then we’ll get back to the public. Mr. Aila offered to come back on a Saturday outside of this meeting arrangement due to Sunshine laws to further the discussion on varies issues. Lisa Hadway also offered to spend some time with the group. Chair Sylvester: We’ll start Mark Bartell. M. Bartell: I’d like to go back to the game management plan. I have yet to be able to find one. Even when we’re operating off today – and to a large extent you know getting a game management plan in the hands of the hunters will answer a lot of questions. Cause right now we don’t know how we manage it. And in fact, if you look at Mauna Kea I think it’s mismanagement that put us in the position to have to kill all the sheep on Mauna Kea because we let the population get so large. So if it is a resource and it is important to everybody who depends on supplementing their grocery store bills, a game management plan that we could look at and we could read and we could understand, we’d know what the state is thinking – has got to be really high – it’s really important – it’s really critical. So I know we’re short a couple resources but when can we expect one? I mean, we’ve been living without one for since I can remember. Years…We keep hearing it’s coming, it’s coming, it’s coming. There are people in this room that have worked on it and you know where does it fall on DLNR’s priority list? On your priority list, because it’s really high on ours. Mr. Aila: The 2 vacancy openings I can tell you we’ve pulled out all the stops to get them moved up and so the hiring process has been accelerated for that. So that tells you that that’s a priority. I can’t tell you exactly when the game management plan is gonna be – see I don’t want to make that promise because it depends on getting some guys hired, getting them brought up to speed, taking a look at the existing draft. We have some challenges with the existing draft so we have to go back and make some changes there, then we’ll make that available for you folks to take a look at. It’s not the answer that you wanted, you wanted a date and I don’t have a date for you. M. Bartell: So where does it fall in the priority – I mean is it in the top… 8 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: I just explained to you that I’ve got a number of vacancies to fill in the department. They’re all priorities. But we’ve already moved these up. They’ve already gone through the process. I think if the Budget and Finance guys to sign off, so we made that a priority above all the other priorities that I have, including biologist we need for aquatic resources including hydrologists that I need for the Water Commission, so they were put above all of those, so I hope that gives you a sense of priorities. R. White: My name is Rob White from the Kona side, District 7. The vacancies that are there now – previously we didn’t have a game management plan, but I’m sure those positions were filled at some point before their vacancies now – so the question goes back to when are we going to get a game management plan. I understand your answer already, but it seems as if that we had opportunities to create a game management plan before those jobs became vacant so… On that… Mr. Aila: So we had it contracted. \[Unclear\] draft plan – so we had the plan – I think in light of the rainfalls forest there’s been some changes that have to be incorporated in that and that’s why the answer to your question is yes, we had someone working on it earlier. It just needs some change. So the plan needs to change. So that’s why it wasn’t done in time, even though we had employees assigned to it. OK. Man: We got like ten minutes. You gotta be done in ten minutes? This is classic example of how low the hunting is on your priority because if you guys can only give us – 6:30 the meeting started and it’s 7:06 on my time– you gave us this little time – that is really rude. Chair Sylvester: OK. Man: No, let me say it. There are hundreds of people. Thousands of people on this island is dependent on the meat that comes out of the mountain and you’re gonna give us and the commission here forty minutes? That’s not right. D. Yoshina: I just want to say you’ve promised to come back in a less formal setting and hopefully it will be soon. So, I understand all the frustration. I’m frustrated too. But I think the chairman has said he’s coming back. Man: You should take some of the helicopter money that you guys are using up in the mountain and pay for a hotel room for tonight and stay till late! I worked all day and came down to have a meeting with you and you gonna give me – I’ve been here for like 30 minutes and you’re gonna leave? Chair Sylvester: We’ve solved that already. Man: All these people are waiting to speak to you… 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: OK. So in terms of your frustration – I was invited to this meeting which wasn’t a meeting to address a larger \[unclear\] it was to address the four things that I was asked. Recognizing the question I was asked earlier, I made a commitment to come back on a Saturday and spend all day if need be. OK. So I apologize that this meeting does not have the opportunity to answer all the questions that everyone in this room wants to but recognizing that I will come back. OK. So I’m sorry that you had to \[unclear\]. Man: Mr. Aila this meeting is held here, this commission is held here. This island is one of the most rural islands. I think only Molokai is more rural than we are and the people here – there is a large part of the population that depends on the mountain to sustain their lifestyle, to eat, to feed their families. And we have sat here for years and watched everything being taken away from us. Chair Sylvester: Can we move on with the commission? I would like to ask Aila’s some questions. Man: This is very, this is not right that you come here, people calling, oh, we know Aila’s going to be here and we’re going to get a chance to speak to him and then what happens. You guys come here and you guys talk for half an hour, forty minutes and then you gotta leave. That’s not how you conduct business. That only shows us, the people of Hawai’i, what you feel about the hunting and where we stand. Chair Sylvester: We just wasted seven minutes of Mr. Aila’s and our time right now sir. Woman: I want to ask one question. Can you implement the County planning into this plan because County planning \[unclear\] development have domino effect to your folks plans because the County don’t know what you folks are doing. They go ahead and develop and people want to develop the mountain areas like they want to do Hokukano and above Kealakekua and there’s no planning with the mountain area that they want to develop. Chair Sylvester: We understand but can we – we have to stick to this agenda items otherwise this meeting is a failure for myself, the commission and Mr. Aila’s time. So we need to move on as a commission and then we can entertain the public and the input as the time permits. R. White: Just so everybody here knows, yes I am representing Kona but I’m actually, we are a game management advisory commission which means our job being here today right now is to represent you guys and ladies. OK. So we’re doing the best that we can do in a short amount of time that we have here today. So I understand there is a lot of emotion. I’m emotional, we’re all emotional but honest to God we’re doing the best we can in the shortest amount of time that we 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 have. I’m sorry. Real quick. I got a whole bunch of stuff, these are all questions and comments I have myself. I spent a lot of time, 2 weeks writing this stuff up. I’m going to get to nearly zero, right. My objective here right now is to show and to beg importance of what we’re here for. We’re here for a game management plan. I think, personally, that this is the # 1 thing that the GMAC (Game Management Advisory Commission) can do. There’s a lot of little things that we’re working on, little – I mean they’re big – all the individual hunting areas are big – to work on those individually – but a game management plan in its whole, in its entirety – will address every single issue that everybody has here that we’re talking about. The Game Management Plan is the umbrella that will manage the entire island if not the state. Man: I suppose in that comprehensive manual that you’re talking about – traditional and Hawaiian rights and access – that will be considered also. Who’s going to be doing that with you that are traditional and cultural practitioners? R. White: Well that’s why we’re all out here for. That’s why we have as many commissioners as we do – it’s not just one person. M. Bartell: So Rob (White), what’s the question? R. White: The Game Management Plan that was written by \[unclear\] Hofflinger as I believe his last name is – is it good enough to use as to start the process of a game management plan and the question is, yes, is it good enough or no, if it’s not. If it is good enough, can we start it, if it’s not good enough, what do we need to do to fix it? Mr. Aila: So the quick answer is no, it’s not good enough, because it wasn’t taking into account or consideration for the rainfall forest. It doesn’t take into consideration \[unclear\] determination of critical habitat. So why would we put something out there that in a very short period of time may not make any sense anymore. R. White: So what do we need to do to fix it? Mr. Aila: \[Unclear\] talk to Fish and Wildlife Services and find out where they’re going. What we need to do is figure out with the money that we have – what we can do with \[unclear\] and then talk to hunters, others community members about what’s appropriate given those efforts that going to occur. Chair Sylvester: I have a question to that. To kinda address what uncle was saying is that being that Fish and Wildlife is such a big player in all this – does Fish and Wildlife protect traditional and cultural gathering rights or is that the state’s responsibility? 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: May I answer this question. So Fish and Wildlife Service right now, because there is no recognition available does not have a responsibility to protect traditional and cultural rights. State of Hawaii does under Article 12 Section 7 has a responsibility to protect traditional and cultural rights. Man: Shall? Mr. Aila: Shall. The question becomes then what are those practices \[unclear\]. Man: And that’s why I brought that up Mr. Aila. I’m not trying to be rude, but there’s many books in the library and all the stuff that I see here – information come from is coming from someone on Oahu that only have one point of view. It’s not on this island because he does not live on this island from the cultural stand point we have to on this island. So, I say to you, I don’t see a Hawaiian sitting on that table there. That’s part of the argument to you, or that’s part of the side cause it does say the state “shall” so all these regulations we’re working on they still have to be constitutional \[unclear\]. And I don’t see a place where it includes protection of traditional Hawaiian rights as defined in Article 12. And there’s a problem there. There’s a potential problem that can be hurdled if we can catch it in infancy. Mr. Aila: So when the plan does finally come up and we have to go through analysis. We’ll take into consideration traditional customary practices. Chair Sylvester: Kalani, please… K. DeCoito: \[Unclear\] and the whole situation that customary rights and stuff cause out in my district we push that \[unclear\] Hawaiian \[unclear\]. The question becomes this though… \[Unclear\] It’s hunting. Hunting be considered a traditional Hawaiian right? Because they’re gonna tell us that Hawaiians never hunt before… \[Unclear\] What my question to him – in my district – we getting cracks – plan or no plan – it’s implemented out there. OK. It’s implemented... We got to apply for a sustainable permit to do the eradication so we can go over there and pick ‘em up. Because we cannot go over there and hunt. Mr. Aila: Where are you referring to? K. DeCoito: In Kau. Because federal \[unclear\] Coherent to the land use. Cause Kahuku is also the forest reserve to our mountain house. So it’s all in co-existing. You see what I’m saying. So right there is a federal thing like you said earlier about the federal you know that you guys \[unclear\].federal park. But it seems to me what I’m hearing is you just have no 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 clue as to what the federal is doing. It’s the coexisting with DLNR that is coming in adjusting to the state and federal. No. Mr. Aila: It’s not that we don’t know what they do. They tell us what they’re doing. But with regards to traditional and cultural practices on federal land, OK, then we get very clear because there is no federal recognition of native Hawaiians and the federal, there’s no protections under Article 12 Section 7 of the Hawai’i State Constitution. So on federal lands there is no, at this moment, there is no protection for traditional and customary practices. K. DeCoito: As far as forest reserves access area that is under Kamehameha Schools and Bishop Estate. Now, that falls under, who? Mr. Aila: If it’s privately owned lands then permission must be given by the private landowner for access. K. DeCoito: But this Kamehameha Schools/Bishop Estate. \[Unclear\] you guys at DLNR or the state as heirs to manage everybody’s land – how can you guys manage to deal with Kamehameha Schools and Bishop Estate cause that’s one of the biggest problems we have there. Mr. Aila: So you’re asking for, what I’m hearing you saying is you’re asking for help with getting these two private entities to allow hunting. K. DeCoito: Because the whole frustration is a lot of guys are wondering the whole accessibility. Getting from point A to point B without doing what they are doing. Mr. Aila: So the answer to that question is, I don’t know what we can do, but we can certainly come to their land managers and see what their policies and procedures are. I don’t control KSB lands. Those are privately owned. Just as if someone wanted to hunt on your land they would have to have your permission. K. DeCoito: What we want is a public access to get to the forest. Can the state condemn that road? I asked that question last month. Mr. Aila: The state can condemn any road with a public purpose… K. DeCoito: of accessibility… Mr. Aila: With a public purpose and it has to be strictly a public purpose. So we can do that with public purpose and funds. I don’t know that access to \[unclear\] beyond, through their property rises to that level of a public interest. K. DeCoito: But then it becomes an Article 12 Section 7. 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: \[Unclear\] the individual, right now the individual is filing some sort of action against KSBE to go through their property to reach public hunting lands. K. DeCoito: So that’s what I mean. So when they take away that road that peoples been using how can you get…Trust me, we’ve been trying to manage that all this time. But it’s besides the point. Mr. Aila: OK. But if you’re \[unclear\]. K. DeCoito: We deal with the ranch lands, with ranch owners who respect us on that one. And they have. But what I’m trying to say is – certain areas they grant now. And they doing land swaps with the state. Mr. Aila: Are there any land swaps \[unclear\]… K. DeCoito: Yes… L. Hadway: With KSB… K. DeCoito: Yes. \[Unclear\] real well... L. Hadway: Which… K. DeCoito: All the eucalyptus… L. Hadway: They want to land swap the eucalyptus… K. DeCoito: They did already… L. Hadway: Well why don’t you get me the specific details and we can look into the parcels you’re referring to in access points. Mr. Aila: I haven’t seen any requests for land swaps come through my office… K. DeCoito: It is under a state lease and turn around and they swap ‘em. \[Unclear\] What happened was Forest Solution has the lease from Kamehameha Schools. Mr. Aila: Give me the specific land parcel and I’ll be happy to look into it. K. DeCoito: OK, I guess this, so I can understand, just to summarize all of this. Now we’re asking for a management plan. Management means that we’re going to manage this game - sustainable. We’re gonna take, yet put back. But what all I’m hearing so far is we need to worry about Fish and Wildlife, watershed protection plan and whatever else is that we need to worry about before we can even get to this plan. So basically what this is saying is Fish and Wildlife and this 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Watershed Protection Plan is gonna take all the prime mountain lands, pretty much. \[Group Discussion\] Chair Sylvester: I got my questions. This is a watershed resource protection plan. And Chapter 183D is the law of life Chapter and 2-12 says, in light of the watershed protection plan how will DLNR implement the objectives of Title 12 to preserve, protect and promote public hunting within this watershed protection plan? How do we – that is the objective of Title 12 and how can we do that. Because with the pig hunters mainly in those regions in the forest, when we see a map like that, that maybe only 5% increasing from 5 to 10% but that’s the whole target area for future funding. They don’t have the money to do that now but when money does become available in the future that it’ll be another 5% or 10% and what will we have for future generations? And the reason why I saw that is because when I look at the commission of water resource management which I believe you’re part of – this was the Water Resource Protection Plan now – significant changes in the ground water monitoring never \[unclear\] occurrences since 1995. A total of 187 wells were included in the program. Over a period of eight years, 156 of these modern \[unclear\] well sites that were active in 1999 have been discontinued. That translates to an 83% in reduction in the number of monitoring locations statewide. So when they created the 2008 state assessment plan for the water plan you’ve lost 83% of your test sites in Hawai’i. So it’s only a select few sites that they’re doing testing to see how much water recharge is actually happening. And the reason why I say that is – this map right here from the USGS shows a difference in estimated recharge from the state water plan of 2008 and this plan was done in 2011 and some of these prime target areas – there’s over 200% more water in these areas than the state plan had in 2008 and that’s the plan that they ran with to create this rainfall forest or whatever it’s called. Especially on the neighbor islands, does not appear to be urgent, the problem is more a matter of development and distribution rather than scarcity of water. The need for augmentation applies more to the island of Oahu – but a timetable for the implementation is difficult to establish. It seemed like this time was made for some critical areas on Oahu and maybe a few dry spots on Kona side, but it’s kinda like taking this whole landscape of Hilo, Kau, and everything, where areas got 260% more water than the plan was when they created that watershed plan. So as far as the goals of the water resource assessments and all that is commit to long term reliable data collection, so are you guys gonna update, my question is, are you guys gonna update your water model for the next time you guys do it to reflect these changes in this? This will really shrink the size of that watershed that you guys actually are… Mr. Aila: The answer is yes. That’s undergoing right now. What you are referring to there is only part of the information that goes into the State Water Plan. So what you don’t see is the rainfall totals. 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Chair Sylvester: Right here in 2011, “Recent projections of change in rainfall owing to the effects of \[unclear\] climate change \[unclear\] indicate a slight st increase in island-wide rainfall and estimates and a recharge in a late 21 century are higher than baseline estimates for every aquifer \[unclear\] except Anaehoomalu average. I work in science so when I – when people want to talk about science and you look at the actual science data and you look at the state plan – the state plan does not talk about any data. All I see in the state plan is words and lingo and jargon to sell it to the legislature and when you go back and you look at the USGS data and statistics it – we don’t have this major crisis on this island that they have on Oahu and maybe in Kohala where they’re sucking all the water up for the rich on that side – that may be a problem. But the target areas of Pumakala \[sp?\], Kau – where you guys are taking has plenty of ground water and recharge. And I think that’s where my frustration and many others… Mr. Aila: So your point is taken– so maybe when we take a look at the rainfall forests \[tape disturbance\] and look at those areas based on based upon information. Chair Sylvester: All right. Any more questions? Man: I have a question. Chair Sylvester: I got one more Pat, hang on. Man: I heard about the rainfall follows the forest or whatever the watershed plan. But I don’t see much in there about population growth and carrying capacity or much of that. That’s one question I have. Is there a projection of population growth and if there is what is that going to require. Second question I have has to do with – and I say this because I have been involved in community planning – but part of the frustration that I keep carrying is that communities and people are not involved in the planning. It’s usually after the fact, the plan is drawn up and then people get involved in it. And so what I hear tonight is a lot of frustration over the fact that all of these governmental actions are happening but the people haven’t been given the courtesy or the opportunity to take part in it. So when you have a government like that – and being a student of government I can’t worry about this – you kind of lose credibility and you kinda lose legitimacy. And you cannot do that because in the United States we’re supposed to be a government of the people. And so, as it relates to the Hawai’i hunting management plan – where do the people participate in it. Can they participate while the plan is being revised? Who are the people they talk to? And are these people going to be available for talk to? Mr. Aila: As far as the water use projections is part of the common plan so \[unclear\] the population on the west side of the island is projected to significantly increase, spreading out from Kona, right, Waimea and there’s d own south. So increase need for water in those areas. In terms of community input, since we’re 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 in the process of hiring the two folks that will be need for the game management plan – I will take a look at, when we bring those two guys on board bring them out to the community for input. OK? You just pointed out what could be \[unclear\] but if those numbers are correct then we certainly can take a look at priority areas that we have assigned for reduction in priorities in some of those areas. OK? So that’s part of community input.\[unclear\]… B. Command: Real quickly Chairman Aila, Puna’s that fastest growing district on this island, just… Mr. Aila: \[Unclear\] P. Pacheco: My name is Pat Pacheco question I’d like to ask you on this. You talk about a Hawai’i Game Management Plan – since 1960 there were one plan brought in there Matayoshi was our Mayor here and \[unclear\]. It was brought to your office. And then there was another plan \[unclear\] just mentioned. Now my question to you this game management plan that you propose – I don’t hear about any hunters \[unclear\] that should be \[unclear\] on that game management plan – all you have is scientists and all these bright, educated people from the western world to come and tell us how to live in Hawai’i. OK? We live here all our life, we’ve hunted all our life, plantation was working then and we used the mountain and the ocean to have food sustainable for people. By taking away eradication like you promote this very much and yet you tell us that you liked the hunting. Well, if you liked it so much hunting, why are you people taking away from us? Now I’m talking # 2. On the watershed area these islands has a lot of drainage – we have a lot of rain in Hilo. Why is it in the watershed area that you spray herbicide and chemical within that area? Yet the ungulates supposed to be doing the damage. Your department are doing the worst damage by putting that chemical on the ground and goes underground into our water system. Are you going to try to kill us with our water? You say the government want to do this – preserve the water – you’re not preserving Mr. Aila – when anything goes down – we’re one volcanic island – it sifts right down into the watershed area – on the Mauna Kea mountain there is a big watershed area – spraying all that chemical – what happens to that chemical from the observatory? Where does it go? Underground into the watershed area. Have you guys ever thought about that? No, of course not! You guys don’t care about the people. If you cared about the people #1, there’s another point I’d like to bring up. We have this young generation up here – they’re something, yeah? Really they don’t understand what really going on. But they understand one thing – they mean well – they love to hunt and support their family with food. You take away the hunting and all this go away. What’s gonna happen to these people? Some of them are not really educated – all they do is hunt and bring the food home to their family – you’re depriving the people, you’re forcing the people to steal. Whereas the mountain and the ocean was our source, you’re taking away from the people that. Try to think about it - this is the fact what’s happening. Oahu people is telling us how to 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 live, but they don’t even live here. We know the problem here but Oahu makes the decision for us. That’s not fair, we should be making the decision. If you’re gonna have a game management plan, I hope, I’d like to say, that you get some hunters involved – you don’t have a dentist to give a plan on a swimming pool because he don’t know nothing about that – so you need a plan – you got to assign this \[unclear\] educated – what about the people of Hawai’i and hunters that’s been hunting on this island all their life. Are you thinking about putting them on there? Mr. Aila: \[Unclear\] Thank you gentlemen. The answer to this question was as we hire the 2 new positions there will be that opportunity – we’ll make that opportunity available for hunters to participate ahead of time in the plan. OK? T. Nakama: Mr. Aila I think that one involvement – they want to be involved in the game management process. This is what they’re all saying. They don’t hear that they are involved in the making of the game management plan. P. Pacheco: Correct. Chair Sylvester: Or to make it understandable so the common person can kind of follow along with what’s going on and feel part of it. T. Nakama: Yeah, they wanna be involved not just give them \[unclear\] Chair Sylvester: OK. I have Margaret and Uncle Larry. M. Wille: What about having all of the information that you have and this commission put together a plan – an interim plan – and then you take this plan and when these people come on board, let them address it. I just think you all need to be a little more aggressive and take it and get the information that’s available and work on a short term one – that they can supplement – otherwise you’re just sitting here begging for when they’re going to do it – and you all need to do it and I don’t want to take anymore time up cause the others have something. But there is federal stuff, there’s the Admissions Act, Section 5B, in terms of public trust and public lands so it is not – I just want to say I don’t necessarily agree with what his opinion I think there is some foundation for providing that – and in terms of access there’s a lot more to do with terms of access and ways to handle that but I just think you all need to just say, “We want the information, we’ve put together a proposed plan,” let them respond instead of you waiting for the future to arrive someday. Chair Sylvester: Larry, one question only. They have to leave, they’re really late. L. Pedro: My name is Lawrence Pedro. I live up Kulani off of C Road. And when I moved here in 1970 the rules were clear. Always allowing hunters from going in. All of Kulani, if you’re going on the trails, all of the trees are down, and people are 18 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 not maintaining. What happens to the maintenance? You want to do different things, new things. Well what about the old things that you guys have under you. The DLNR controls that land – but how come they’re not maintaining the roads. How come they’re not making access to the hunting? Because the trees are down and most hunters won’t carry saws and I think we should go back to looking what you guys have under your control. And do the right thing. Have somebody do the maintenance on these roads. This is not about junks but trees that keep falling down including the eucalyptus. I live, I go home through C Road and I live on North Road. I have an old anthurium farm back there – but always we have to carry saws because DLNR isn’t maintaining those roads. I’ve been up and down that street and all those roads are impassible. It’s just the old. Maintain the old before you begin something new… Mr. Aila: I hear you. That’s part of the Waiakea Timber management area. L. Pedro: Right. Mr. Aila: \[Unclear\] Man: One of the things Mr. Pacheco was talking about was about our youth. A lot of them are going out hunting – they don’t have the DLNR training but they go out because dad and mom or dad and grandpa cannot go out anymore. So they’re gonna go out on their own with their friends and they’re gonna hunt. And they hunt illegal. They trespass private property and stuff like that – they’re carrying loaded weapons that they have no idea about really how to work, as far as safety and everything like that. I’m a gun and safety specialist so I train a lot of people. Thing about this is – what I wanted to get at is – we’re putting them in jeopardy when they’re going into adulthood with violations of trespassing of carrying loaded weapons and things like that. That’s gotta stop. OK. We need to have places that’s available for our youth to hunt. It’s better to take our youth hunting instead of hunting for our boys. OK. Second – as far as the game management plan and everything – because DLNR – this game management plan with Mr. Hofflinger you know since 1990 when we put the pig hunters of Hawai’i together with Tom Lodge and \[unclear\] and everybody else and Medeiros – we’ve been active in saving our hunting. I remember when I came back from Vietnam – saving our sheep on Mauna Kea and stuff like that back in 1976 – those guys – it’s been every since that time – since that time until now – just trying to save our hunting lands – because you put out game management plan on the back burner – and it’s been like that for every administration – on the back burner – let’s wait and see what we can come up with – let’s come with some agreeable terms and stuff, something we can live with so to speak. What happens is that – in the process while we’re waiting for all of that action to take place – DLNR, DOFAW, Forestry, NPS – all these guys are still doing what they’re doing – because they’re getting the necessary funding – and they’re leaving us out in the process. In the meantime, with all these fencing goes up without our approval, without the game management plan, it still goes up. Why? 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Request to you is to cease and desist – of all – for further action about fencing, about eradication, until the game management plan – we can work together with NPS, with DLNR, with DOFAW and everybody else, if we can come up with an agreeable something we can live with together. Until such time you should cease and desist all further actions and implementations of whatever you guys doing. Whether it be eradication, or whether it be implementing fencing. \[Group claps\] Man: Because today’s choices will be tomorrow’s mistakes. Mr. Aila: So with response to that – we have some fences that no can – cannot desist. Cease and desist. OK. And I said this before and I’ll say it again I’m not going to be held in contempt of court – OK. Federal judge said this is going to happen. The monies been allocated to almost finish the fence. I have no excuse \[unclear\] for not doing it. OK? Mauna Kea it’s going to go up. I just want everybody in this room to be very, very clear. That’s not on the table. You guys can laugh at the fact, but I’m telling you OK. Man: \[Unclear\] Mr. Aila: Hang on. I not going – I don’t care what they did in the past – the federal judge made the ruling, OK, a federal judge made a ruling – we’re gonna follow- through with that court order. I don’t care about \[unclear\] whatever the court said we’re going to do, we’re going to do. Man: You’re not going to stand up and fight for the people? You work for the people. Mr. Aila: I am not going to violate a federal judge’s order. Man: You can appeal! Mr. Aila: I am not going to violate a federal judge’s order. That has been appealed year’s ago \[unclear\], I am not… Man: \[Unclear\] Mr. Aila: No, no. I’m not. I’m not gonna waste anymore state money, anymore state time… Man: The people’s money! Mr. Aila: I’m not! That’s already been decided. OK? I just like you understand that. That’s why I’m saying it very, very clear. I’m not. OK? We can talk about all the other things. All the other things you want to talk about – we can talk. 20 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Man: OK. Mr. Aila: I not going talk about that. Man: That’s part of the jurisdiction in state lands – that’s your fiduciary responsibility is to us. OK. That being the case – then cease and desist all activities pertaining to state land. Mr. Aila: What we have contracts for I not going cease and desist. But I can take a look at future contracts. OK? Man: I can understand that. Mr. Aila: OK. Man: That’s not something that… K. DeCoito: Yeah, but the contracts that you got, though, \[unclear\] looked at \[unclear\] speaking to you tonight. This is what we’re looking at. We see the projects going up. They going up one after the other all the time. Mr. Aila: I made a commitment \[Unclear\] based on scientific fact that the things that have not been funded as of yet – we can take a look at those – OK. Things that have been signed contracts – I cannot go back on them. K. DeCoito: Even if it’s in violation. If we can show you… Mr. Aila: When you say “violation” in violation of what? K. DeCoito: Let me go back through it. Well one with the Hawaiian people with the Article 12, Section 7. Mr. Aila: \[Unclear\] K. DeCoito: OK. OK. Now we can talk about this – on the table, right? These projects are on the table. Mr. Aila: Well, these projects that have been contracted are going to move forward. And the projects that have not been contracted we can go back and take a look at. OK? K. DeCoito: And these projects that are now coming up – we have no idea what they are until it comes out on us. 21 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Mr. Aila: When I come back on the Saturday I’ll ask the staff to bring me all the projects that are on the books and we can take a look at those. OK? K. DeCoito: OK. Mr. Aila: Traditional and customary practices have not been worked out yet. OK? Have not. I repeat, have not been worked out yet. So we have to have that discussion, some of that discussion is occurring with you \[unclear\] right now. Man: \[Unclear\] question… Mr. Aila: Yes. T. Lodge: I don’t want to get you off track \[Unclear\] brought up something back in ’93, ’94 and ’95. We were working with a group called the Natural Areas Working Group. The Working Group came up with \[unclear\] the environmental community, the Nature Conservancy, Fish and Wildlife Service, DOFAW and the hunters. And the substance of that agreement was put together in a bill HB 104 – which you might be familiar with – where she’s talking about the involvement of the hunters \[unclear\]. We would like you to go back and re-look at that – Bill 104 – because it does involve the hunters in the \[unclear\] direct involvement. Mr. Aila: OK. Action: A motion was made by K. DeCoito for a short recess/Seconded by R. White. Motion carried. RECESS PUBLIC TESTIMONY ON AGENDA ITEMS Chair Sylvester: The meeting will resume. Please take a seat. All right, is there any further public testimony on agenda items? Go ahead, Margaret. M. Wille: OK. Margaret Wille, I’m County Council for North / South Kohala and I’ve been working on access issues for a long time. So it overlaps. I do want to say, to the extent to which we – and when I say we I mean we – County – and you all here representing us – can get some of this information and get it on a table – I would just say why don’t we start working on a plan – here’s what it is and then let them weigh in – instead of waiting for them to come up with something. So that’s really my main thing – I would be happy to help you. I think the one thing when they’re talking about the court decision – that court decision made it very clear – it’s only controlling making the determination for those 2 areas of the palila. It’s not making a decision over any of the rest of the island. I think you just say, we’re setting that aside and we’re governing the rest and then you’re clear. But it only had that. I do think, I disagree in terms of the traditional 22 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 and customary rights Article 12, Section 7 – all of those rights and access rights come out of the Admissions Act which really came out of the historic Kamehameha III saying the people have rights – if we’re going to give out these little plots of land – access to the sea, access to the forest – for people to be whole. And that was clearly in there – and so that’s where those constitutional provisions come in. And the state laws that govern DLNR for example, I think it’s HRS 171 – 26, in terms of the state – basically the state is the trustee of the public lands for the benefit of native Hawaiians in the general public and we have to consider public access. I just went to court over that and basically the court will not hear it and got a split decision saying, we’re not going to – the court’s not going to review it – and my point was then you have a right without a remedy if – anyway I’m getting into something – but I’m just saying is all of these things really come out of the federal Admissions Act. And so there is some basis for that. So, but I think if you gather – nobody here’s against protecting the water, nobody here is against all of that and get the information down and if we get it all on the table and looking at it ourselves – otherwise we’re just sitting here waiting for them to finally hire someone to put together their plan and come down here and work on it. So, and I’d be happy to help and I think the County and we could do presentations and just ask them for all the information and move on and be aggressive and be assertive and proactive and be pushy. OK. Thank you. K. DeCoito: \[Unclear\] the planning department where the County stands – you know as far as like when they sell lands \[unclear\] and then the land tax is payable to who? County, right? M. Wille: On the County land as opposed to the public lands. K. DeCoito: How can we implement the planning department \[unclear\] those certain roads that are accessible that is used all the time, private owners or \[unclear\]. M. Wille: So there’s that… K. DeCoito: \[Unclear\] in the plan \[unclear\] divide the property and this road has to be… M. Wille: Kept open. K. DeCoito: Yeah. M. Wille: And there’s a lot of problems. There are places that are getting closed off right now. K. DeCoito: Yeah. 23 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 M. Wille: And I think what we should do is probably get Warren Lee to come to the Council and make a presentation on those issues. But there’s a state law basically the statute that’s the open – ensures open roads – any road that existed in 1778 – unless there’s an affirmative legislative act to close it. So unless there’s been a legislative act to close it – it’s supposed to remain open. All rights only exist to the extent that one gets them enforced. And what’s happening is things just get left and fences go across roads and – you are talking to a crippled department, I mean the DLNR lost 60% of their funding and 60% or so of their people and all their best people under Governor Lingle. She basically wanted it crippled, so every time we go after them, they lost all of their top, much of their top staff. K. DeCoito: On my end we have a lot of big developers that come in and they come in to see county department for subdividing for gentleman Ag lots \[unclear\] and one of the things is when that happens they start closing up certain roads thinking that the property is theirs. How can we implement something there \[unclear\]. M. Wille: We have to make sure before it’s… K. DeCoito: When you guys actually give them permission to subdivide that we could implement that also that… M. Wille: Right and we’re fighting over that on Kohala Kai right now in South Kohala and North Kohala. But, for example, I believe Kohala Ranch, they did agree to close off some road or so me trail and we gotta get them open rather than letting them get closed. So I can talk to you and we can work on that. I mean I think access is really important. M. Bartell: So on those same lines, right, so I think we all can agree that in time the number of large ranchlands or farm – just like the sugar cane – went. Right? Large blocks of private land are being subdivided, right? In sugar land, people had access through the sugar to the forest, right? But now this is becoming private. Is there something the County can do – some ordinance the County can put in place or should consider as ranch land gets sold to private developers and subdivided into whatever it’s going to be – 10 acres or 50 acres of 100 acre lots – that in order for that to occur and in order for that to be approved is by the County Planning Commission – that access to the state forest has to be a condition to do that. M. Wille: We’re – North Kohala has really been pushing that and… M. Bartell: And, should we consider as the County Council.. M. Wille: Yes, and it has been. So as things come up now we’re starting to look at that. 24 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 M. Bartell: But, so, rather than take it on as they come up – should we – as a group – whether it be GMAC or the hunting community – say why don’t we come to County Council – get something on the books that forces that to work… M. Wille: And makes it clear in the code… M. Bartell: Yes… M. Wille: ….not just going on – right now we’re basically using the community development plans – largely – and some of these constitutional provisions – but now that the Planning director and Bobby’s (Command) now deputy over here – so he knows a lot about this – there sort of – if it’s not in the code we don’t pay attention to it. So we can strengthen some of those things that are now – there’s 2 lawsuits going on right now – that have to do with this under public trust, OK? And one is our County Council said don’t appeal this decision, it was where it – basically the Planning Director was sort of using her own discretion – we don’t have to listen to CDPs and they don’t apply to private land – and the court – Ibarra said no that’s not true. You do have to listen to the CDP. I’m abbreviating and oversimplifying – and you do have to pay attention to the public trust – and then low and behold – which is exactly what we would want as far as I’m concerned – but low and behold despite our – I don’t know whether it was 6 to 3 or 9 to 0, whatever, but we’ve said don’t appeal but our County’s appealing going the wrong way, as far as I’m concerned. And the same thing on a Kauai decision, so we need – we can do more on the County level. M. Bartell: So my question is – or my statement will be – rather than leave it up to chance – is it possible that we put something on the County books as law that says any large block of land that gets subdivided that borders a State forest reserve automatically has to have public access. I mean that way it can’t slip through the cracks and that was we can’t have a planning deputy say nah… M. Wille: We do have – just so you know there is that law for the state. B. Command: For the record I didn’t say that. M. Wille: Let me just say there is exactly the law that you’re talking about on the books for the state and it says shall. M. Bartell: Shall. M. Wille: Shall. And I went and challenged – and they weren’t doing to! And the state for all of Parker Ranch’s all the large blocks of land that abut the established roads to the public forest – right – and they ran out on their 35 year leases and they were redoing for 20 years leases – so I went in and I said when you dispose of land you have to do these right of ways – and the lease is 25 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 considered a disposition of land. And, they said no. So then I went in on the circuit court judge said well M. Willie we haven’t ever enforced this. I said that’s why I’m here. So we actually have it for the state and the court said we’re not going to review it – we’re gonna let the agency do what they did. But let’s do it on this county level… M. Bartell: Let’s do it on the county level… This is your suggestion…game management plan for the island M. Wille: I could, I agree. K. DeCoito: I have a question. We can also look into this – I agree what he’s saying – but the biggest problem that I see also is our realty on selling the land and not informing the people that the people need public access. Because they’re the ones shoving us off. The ones that buy the land. M. Wille: But it – the private landowners are pursuing their own private interests and that’s like when I get mad at say Parker Ranch – they’re just doing what’s in their interest – it’s the state and the county that’s supposed to protect our interest. And it’s when they’re not doing it that we have to jump on people like Bobby (Command) and say, come on represent us and… K. DeCoito: They’re not doing nothing… M. Wille: OK. So then we have to… M. Bartell: At the county level maybe we should move forward something… M. Wille: Yes, let’s move forward. And I think get the information and you can always do a presentation and we can – and you get on TV and get everybody interested and then we’ll have 600 people come testify on this and not just on the GMOs. T. Lodge: ….been on here for 20 or 30 years and one of the landowner issue \[unclear\] addressing is the fact that there’s a liability issue when there’s trespass. And we have tried to submit legislation for the state regarding the trespass – to allow that the landowner’s free from the responsibility and that bill has never been passed. It’s been defeated. This is something that the county could certainly help us with in supporting that and then get the other counties involved in that too \[unclear\] that the landowners are going to be free from liability. M. Wille: There is one law that exists and maybe Bobby (Command) if he knew better than me – but that right now does protect the landowner when it’s recreational and they’re not charging anything – that it protects them from liability. So we’d have to look and see what one does exist. In the planning department B.J. (Leithead-Todd) was looking into that as to how that might be 26 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 tightened up. But there is some protection – so what I tried to do with access in Waimea on these lands let’s set it up so that there’s a course that you take – like the hunters’ course – but an environmental course – and then another class on a private property rights – so people get the privilege of going and there’s a kuleana and stewardship and that’s what they’re doing a lot in North Kohala even with the private lands and there are some laws already exist in terms of the makai, mauka makai connection and the trails going around – but there are so laws but they just don’t seem to be somewhat ignored – or in the County situation they’re still vague. So it is – I was hoping I’d get a break through on this lawsuit – but I got an 18 page really great dissent why what I said was right and the other judges just said we’re not going to hear the case. So we can work on it on the County level and I’m sure Bobby (Command) would help out. And just try to do – but I think in terms of a plan – it’s where should we be able to hunt? Where should we be able to do that? And you guys know better than anybody – and try to come up with something I forget where the court knocked it out and do the rest and you do the work for them. Chair Sylvester: The thing is they’re so far behind because even to do game management you have to do this habitat conservation plan now like Puuwaawaa is. You need to do that first before you can even do game management. M. Wille: Well, I disagree. I just think you just go and you get that information and put together an interim plan and as these things march in then you add them into the mix. Anyway… Man: That makes sense but that’s not how. R. White: Can I add to that? That’s why addressed briefly that there has been a game management plan written already. M. Wille: So let’s get what there is… R. White: OK. So that’s why I asked Mr. Aila while he was here specifically what do we need to do to change that – because my understanding was the game management plan that’s already written was not perfect. Duh? M. Wille: Duh. Nothing’s perfect. R. White: So my question, but nobody if you ever listen to ‘em – they never say what’s wrong with it – they just said it wasn’t right. M. Wille: Well they also said they’re gathering data like rainfall – but that’s each of those things you bring ‘em in. R. White: Right. So that’s now I will… 27 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 M. Wille: Right. R. White: So now that’s what he’s saying. This is the information that we need – well now that we know that I’m gonna further – my investigations with them and see what information comes on that – we’ll fill in the gaps on the current game management plan that was written and hopefully give ‘em a plan like you’re saying – that’s as complete as we can get. M. Wille: As we can get… R. White: There are some studies and statistics that need to happen apparently to be able to put it in place. But I understand what you’re saying is give ‘em a plan – here you go… M. Wille: Right. I mean I think it would be good to just get whatever plan there is and have everybody have a copy of it and try to figure out… M. Bartell: Man: And supersede… We can’t get ‘em… M. Wille: You can’t get the old plan? R. White: We’re not allowed to by law. M. Wille: Oh. T. Nakama: You can! R. White: We’ve already asked. T. Nakama: You can ask for it. M. Wille: Yeah, B. Command, I’m sure, he’s got a lot of pull. He’s got a connection. \[Group Discussion\] Chair Sylvester: You have to mediate for that first before \[unclear\] game management. Right.. L. Hadway: Conservation plan allows you to take and kill endangered species. So when you’re taking and killing endangered species if you mitigate for that. That’s what the plan says. Chair Sylvester: So isn’t that what we would need in most of these areas? To manage game or is there a way that we can have game management areas without having to go through the HCP process first. 28 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 L. Hadway: Ideally well and the county’s familiar with this and \[unclear\] situation is that we’re trying to work with Fish and Wildlife Service to be very strategic about their critical habitat designations and that they aren’t unrealistic and that we would encourage the ability to do \[unclear\] game management and allow for other uses in the areas \[unclear\] protect certain others. T. Lodge: So with critical habitat on state land – doesn’t that \[unclear\] if you don’t have anything that’s not threatened with extinction – isn’t that up to the state what to do with that land? L. Hadway: It depends if there’s a federal \[unclear\] and if there’s federal… T. Lodge: \[Unclear\] giving us the money… L. Hadway: If there are federal funds associated with the project than PR triggers and then I think… T. Lodge: You’re putting yourself in their basket. L. Hadway: We could on for a long time and I would like to explain all these technicalities. I don’t know that I’m \[unclear\] be on the agenda…. But the Section 7 consultation associated with the endangered species act and federal funds and so any action that’s funded with any portion \[tape disturbance\] cause of the endangered species law – you have to show how you’re not going to impact those species or admit you’re gonna impact them and create a habitat conservation plan. So we’re trying to work strategically with Fish and Wildlife Service to ideally be able to plan at a level where we don’t have to do a formal HC \[unclear\] on the entire map \[unclear\]. Where there’s a \[unclear\]. M. Wille: Maybe you should call – have one of those people – I forget what his name is the Fish and Wildlife person – have them come here… L. Hadway: And they’re more than willing to work within… M. Wille: And work one on one and here’s the map and where can we go and take the lead. L. Hadway: It’s challenging when you have 450 some odd species and we have an obligation also to work with those. So we’re to look at the maps and make it work. And it’s not going to be happy for everyone. Man: \[Unclear\] Man: Can I ask you a question? 29 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Chair Sylvester: \[Unclear\] B. Command: A potential trigger would be Pitman and Robertson…both goes both ways, right. L. Hadway: And that was part of the conversation at the last meeting with Esther (Kia’aina). We were gonna look at additional state funds to support the federal funds and ideally look at being able to implement some things with state funds and not have to use the federal funds. So it’s being considered and again I encourage you folks to support those additional funds we’re requesting from the legislature. Man: \[Unclear\] Esther \[unclear\] – Lori? Women: I meant no. So on that note – chair’s statement about the federal part was it really \[unclear\] and she wanted \[unclear\] and she kind of touched on it. And under the National Historic Preservation Act, Section 7, the federal government funds and they’re gonna do actions anywhere – they are mandated such as Section 106 conservation they’re mandated to engage in consultation with tribes but they also recognize as tribes native Hawaiian \[unclear\] organization and so for critical habitat designation as a native Hawaiian organization I have a right to engage in consultation and I have, they have to offer, they have to engage and at the end of that engagement they come up with a programmatic union \[unclear\]. We do it Dept. of Defense, we’ve done it at PTA we do it throughout the state and so we have that in the \[unclear\] funds. And this goes back to the bigger discussion of how funds come from the federal government go to the forest service, go through the Pitman and Robertson funds. And the nexus in federal funding at the level where it reaches the state we certainly do have a right to be a part of conservation \[unclear\]. So saying that, the federal government has created a process to engage in that discussion – of pre, prior informed consent \[unclear\] progress. OK. So now you come to the state level. Now remember the state is obligated to do some certain things \[unclear\]. And for critical habitat, however, even that critical habitat – once that designation \[unclear\] like the Alaskian tribe of Eskimos – if I needed to do that taking that’s a process I have to work out with \[unclear\]. So I can still \[unclear\] as a native Hawaiian cause that’s my right, even if that species is determined \[unclear\]. OK. If I need a bald eagle feather to put in my cape or whatever, then that’s my right. But the federal government has a protocol and a process to address that. The state of Hawai’i has no process. OK? Hawaii process and the catch back that we have is under the environmental laws of Chapter 314. They call that environmental law. That’s a trigger that goes back to the environmental assessments and protects \[unclear\] and that’s where we can argue environmental impacts. And then getting back to… On her discussion and problems in Kau when the state \[unclear\] the county. \[Unclear\] It starts at the top. By the time you get to the county level and their 30 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 management and access rights – by all means the county is mandated to provide access to the shoreline under the Coastal Zone and Management Act. OK. That’s a federal environmental protection act that goes to kuleana gave it to the state, state turns around and gives that kuleana and please correct me if I’m saying that wrong. At the county level the county has to provide that because they getting funding \[tape disturbance\] so they have to provide access they cannot be subdividing and \[tape disturbance\] not providing access. It’s the law. So getting back to subdivision – I’m only familiar with Maui Counties’ and I’m thinking it’s statewide but you gotta understand that we have only four designations zoning designations within the state, conservation, urban, rural and agricultural. Under each zone – so zoning is the big trigger to for all of this \[unclear\] you have certain permissible designated actions that \[unclear\] \[tape disturbance\] and then under that – when you get to the nitty gritty subdivision – at the county level at least in Maui County, the county only has purview for subdivisions of less than 15 acres. Anything greater than 15 acres is determined by the State of Hawai’i Land Use Commission. That’s where you have the big subdivisions coming into \[unclear\] and when you get to that stage most of these subdivisions are done \[unclear\]. It’s a process. And so at that point is where the easement agreements are written up and access rights are written up and that’s how come the state was supposed to address all these access issues. So you talked about we shouldn’t have this and that – well the State of Hawai’i Realtor’s Association – puts out a great handbook – It’s called “So you Want to Move to Hawaii” - it addresses all these issues. It’s like a handbook. Everything that you’re talking about that you may not be aware of. So all these issues is nothing new. It’s just understanding where each piece of the puzzle comes in and how you can effectively argue towards your goal and this thing the game commission – Walter and I are part of the Aha Moku Council within the state. And it’s a new council – It’s DLNR - formed by the Governor, specifically addresses culture. And to reserve our rights but also to hold the hands of everybody who wants to preserve natural resources. And then, I’m going to state yes the constitution has protection but where the state is failing is when it comes to Section 214 – environmental laws and Chapter 205A, which is a protection of the shoreline. That’s where your planning department’s kuleana is – they call it Special Management Areas. Anything that happens in that special management area because remember the State of Hawai’i owns all submerged lands in the state up to the high water mark or vegetation. And that vegetation line back I don’t know what it is for Big Island, but there’s so many feet – that becomes the kuleana of what they call Special Management Area – that falls under your county planning. And so all the development that occurs there will come under their purview. And some actions are exempted and some are not. On Molokai nothing’s exempted. There’s no administrative exemptions on Molokai by the planning director. \[Tape disturbance\]. All exemptions come back to Molokai planning commission, we say yes we confirm no we don’t have to confirm. So you can see how government 31 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 layers are being applied and that’s how come you have to understand how that works in order for you to effective to getting what you want. So I guess not to waste everybody’s time but in the end it’s extremely important because I read your ordinance and it could have been taken right out of the state constitution for culture and because, it says that you have purview of all matters related to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing as well as protecting traditional and cultural gathering rights. So right there, you guys are protected under the state constitution to provide that and your manao. \[unclear\]. I would really try to expound the commissioners’ expertise when it comes to particularly that because that is well established; you have a lot of case history that establishes rights in order to do this \[unclear\] culture. You can do that. It tells you right there you have, you can do that. So to conserve and protect the natural cultural resources -hunting is a cultural resource. OK. We support that a thousand percent. Self-sufficiency. So we want to work hand in hand and the commission does and the state because our goals are the same – it’s just the lines and everything, so no matter whether it’s critical habitat, or watershed initiative or partnerships or whatever – then in the end you still have the state constitution that protects your rights. And at the federal level under the National Historic Preservation Act that’s even stronger and I’ve \[unclear\]. And that you could palapala at the end, you sign, federal government sign, the State Historic Preservation Officer Chair Aila signs and that’s your gun. So and at the county level. The county level is important cause it’s all closely knit which holds the hands of the Office of Coastal Conservation Management. OK. Conservation is very limited with what you can do under actions. T. Lodge: You bring up the constitution and I think something like Constitutional Convention… Woman: Let me pose that question to the person who sat on that commission in 1978. This Walter \[unclear\]. T. Lodge: One of the things they took out of that constitutional convention – they didn’t vote on it in any way, game. So there’s a question whether it’s in or out of the constitution. So we submitted a bill last year – \[unclear\] for us – you know we didn’t have time to relay or address it properly but it came to be HB 104 – a constitutional amendment, to put game back in the constitution. So we would like your help in inserting that word for the upcoming legislative season. M. Wille: Just following up on that it’s I think it would be really good if there’s somebody looking out for what’s coming up in the legislature that’s relevant to what you’re doing because it’s not just creating those rights – there are – last year there were bills to eliminate those rights. I testified on I think it was SB 1027 or something like that where it was eliminating the county’s role on shoreline management. And they were streamlining and therefore there was nothing that would hit the county. So there’s other forces on the other side taking away all of 32 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 these rights and inputs – so it’s important that we coordinate and watch what’s being eliminated. Woman: And commissioner we’re fortunate and we’re very appreciative that Representative Faye Hanohano is here and she is the chair of the Ocean and Marine Resources. She’s taking all this in and she’s very effective on Oahu. So I thank you for being here tonight. F. Hanohano: Thank you. T. Nakana: I need to ask a legal question. Whatever says in the deed. Everybody’s \[unclear\] deed. Does everybody have to comply? L. Ashida, our legal? Honor these… L. Ashida: What deed are you talking about? T. Nakama: Of everybody’s land deeds. Quitclaim deeds. Whatever the deeds are. There’s supposed to be the wording – gathering rights. They only reason it’s not there – just because it’s not there it doesn’t mean it’s not there. So whether you are a federal landowner, a state or county, do those words still apply in the deed? The only reason why native gathering rights are supposed to be in their deeds – is it something we can look up because it was originally in everybody’s deeds. L. Ashida: You know what – why don’t you call my office. T. Nakama: I will call the office. But my question is – if those words are in the deed, whether you’re county, state or federal – do they have to comply with what’s in this deed. L. Ashida: Why don’t you call my office because we’re off topic. We have to stick to the agenda. Chair Sylvester: We can agendize that item for next time. T. Nakama: Something to look at, because if the federal government says they don’t have to listen to the federal gathering rights – right cause that’s what Aila said – Aila said they don’t have to comply with Article 12, Section 7. But if it’s in the deeds, do they have to comply? Chair Sylvester: Thank you. We have to move on. Tom? T. Lodge: Getting back to our original discussion. L. Hadway, I have one question for you. Chair Sylvester went to Puuwaawaa meeting the other day – and one of the things that he noted was there was some capital improvement money that was asked for \[unclear\]. And that triggered our conversation on that they were 33 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 \[unclear\] and tracking. Were you ever able to get that from him? Tracking and collaring? L. Hadway: Yeah, absolutely, \[unclear\]. 2. UPDATE ON THE NATOINAL ASSEMBLY OF SPORTSMEN’S CAUCUSES ANNUAL SPORTSMAN-LEGISLATOR SUMMIT Chair Sylvester: OK. Can we move on. OK. We have to finish up our business here. We need an update on the National Assembly of Sportsmen Caucuses annual Sportsman-Legislator Summit. W. Camara: I just started working on these this past week. I’ve found out that it’s st November 18 through the 21 in Illinois. I have an email out that I just sent out this afternoon to that lady from the caucus to see if it’s something that one of us can attend. I will try to work on it and get it out to you all tomorrow. Chair Sylvester: Need volunteer, potential… 3. UPDATE ON THE HAR 124 LETTER TO BLNR BY B. COMMAND Chair Sylvester: OK. Bobby – do you have an update on the HR 124 letter? B. Command: Right. I spoke to the Mayor about it. The Mayor suggested that we wait till DLNR puts something out – but basically what he’s saying is what are we advocating against and if the DLNR has not put out draft rules how can we know what we’re advocating against. Suggest that we wait. There are no draft rules out right now regarding… Chair Sylvester: Well it went out like testimony in April and everything so… But then it goes to \[unclear\] I would assume that was the draft at that point already, right? B. Command: Right Chair Sylvester: And then they do the review… B. Command: ….we had the staff person \[unclear\]. Man: I think the draft letter that we sent out was general in nature and it basically told the guys, hey… 34 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 B. Command: What the letter said if you don’t support – if you are going to include it – we don’t want… Man: Yeah, but… B. Command: We do not support the entire… Man: So isn’t it within the aegis of this board to make that advisory comment? B. Command: You can advise the Mayor to make the comment, yes. But you’re asking the Mayor to send them the letter, right? Man: Oh, I don’t know. I thought it was our letter… M. Bartell: No. It’s our suggestion that the Mayor send the letter to the board of the DLNR. B. Command: Right. That’s correct. M. Bartell: So it’s gotta come from Mayor Kenoi as Mayor Kenoi to the board. I mean otherwise we can send our own letter as individuals. B. Command: Right. M. Bartell: Yeah. B. Command: Which you can do anyway. M. Bartell: Which I can do anyway. Right. So Lincoln, I’m confused. What the public hearings were was a draft, right? Now they took public feedback. We don’t know what revisions they’re gonna make. B. Command: They’re not going to approve those revisions without going back to the public. M. Bartell: So what if they chose not to take any of them and go right to the board for a vote? D. Yoshida: Which they can. Man: That’s right. \[Group discussion\] L. Hadway: So Chapter 124 rules – administrative rules that are being developed by the state have to go through the public hearing. So you guys went to public 35 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 hearings, then what happens is after all the public hearings and the comment period closes. All of that information is gathered by staff and then it’s complied and adjustments are made and then it goes up to the Attorney General’s Office for review. That is where the 124 rules are at right now. After the review by the Deputy Attorney Generals that are associated with DLNR it will come back to the Board of Land and Natural Resources and it will be on the agenda and at this point the Wildlife Program has said that they would give 30 days notice to whoever is interested that those will be coming to the board. And at the last meeting as Esther (Kia’aina) mentioned that we were more interested in seeing the 122, 123 rules go have priority over the 124 rules, in terms of moving forward with the process. Man: I have a question about that 122, 123. Chair Sylvester: Let her finish, please. Woman: So the 122, 123 rules are in the same kind of situation. They’re also with the Attorney General right now being reviewed. In the Attorney General’s office – we don’t have timelines from them – we are hoping that this fall they will make it a new board and you will be notified when this happens. Man: That’s 122, 123 rules that’s the ones that came up here right before Thanksgiving in like 2005. That’s like 8 years already I think it’s been going on. And we sent a whole bunch of documentation to your office regarding them and it’s been 8 years we’ve been waiting. That long. At least 8 years. What’s – you know I called Roger \[unclear\], you know how many months Scott Fretz was working on that, right? Scott Fretz he’s on Maui now, he’s taking care of Maui. Scott Fretz this has been going – that’s what happened – you know. You people ask… Chair Sylvester: Let’s get back to the question to Bobby, though… Man: OK. Chair Sylvester: Mark because… Man: But anyway. Wait, wait, wait. One second. I would like to see 122, 123 settled because 8 years it’s unheard of. Go ahead… B. Command: So regardless of whatever chapter we’re talking about, when it is released to the – when it’s agendized… Woman: Yes… B. Command: ….to the Board of Land and Natural Resources that is when and Lisa (Hadway) said she’ll give what 30 days, you said? 36 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 L. Hadway: Thirty days, yes. M. Bartell: We’ll see what’s going before the board? B. Command: Yes. M. Bartell: Got it. B. Command: That’s when we make the comment. M. Bartell: That was unclear last meeting. B. Command: OK. L. Hadway: And in the future I would encourage the commission when - if there are new rules and packages coming forward – of having you know comments that come from the commission that are very, you know, point by point on comments on the rules \[unclear\] future ones. Chair Sylvester: Fine. Thank you. B. Command: I need to ask you, Lincoln, can they put together a draft letter addressing those items ahead of time. In case those issues are in 124? L. Ashida: Yes. B. Command: Yes, OK. And your letter does make those, with some revisions I think we could probably shape something that will \[unclear\]. Maybe you should ask the board if that would be possible as soon as we find out when it gets \[unclear\] the Land Board of Natural Resources. Man: Will we be able to review the revisions? B. Command: If you want… \[Group discussion\] Woman: It’s usually a done deal. The reason for that is they cannot go back to public hearing unless it’s a major issue. So when they say they have 30-days and it gets done – at that point any additions or whatever you have on those revisions would have to go back, because it’s the law, has to back to public hearing. Man: They’re not going to do that. 37 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Woman: And what they’re going to say if it’s not significant, it’s not going to happen. The time to make that is right now while it is and it’s kind of behind you already but if the Attorney General still has it you should be able to raise this concern right now because it’s not going to happen at that level. M. Bartell: So maybe we should give Billy (Mayor Kenoi) that feedback. L. Hadway: When not sure, cause the 30-day comment period closed on the draft. I’m not sure if they can open that back up and \[unclear\]. Woman: See, it’s a done deal. It’s too late. Man: We’ve been trying since April. Woman: Yeah. Man: They can kill us for trying. Group Discussion T. Lodge: I’d like to make a motion on that. Chair Sylvester: OK. Man: I’m \[unclear\] letter can we just \[unclear\]. Chairman \[unclear\]. Man: The one with \[unclear\] what did he say? Man: Well I’m just saying that if we’re not going to do it – then Tony as chairman – I mean we’re all \[unclear\] came up with to the board. \[Unclear\] concerns accurately and \[unclear\] and the chairman. My motion to the chairman \[unclear\]. B. Command: \[Unclear\] represented as chairman of the board. Man: \[Unclear\] is setting up that statement because as a commission… Man: Can we do that? Man: Well the Mayor may disagree but, I mean… B. Command: What is your purpose? M. Bartell: Our purpose is stated clearly in the letter, right? B. Command: No the purpose of the board, the commission… 38 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 M. Bartell: Is to advise the Mayor and the County Council. So you’re saying we advise the Mayor our job is done. B. Command: You would take that \[unclear\]. Man: What’s our charter say? You have the charter here on you? Man: No. B. Command: Essentially what Mark said is the charter, right, to advise the Mayor on issues regarding… T. Lodge: \[Unclear\] the charter also says that we can transact business on behalf \[unclear\]. Cause that’s \[unclear\]. B. Command: OK. Chair Sylvester: ….present and future generations of the Game Management Advisory Commission shall advise county, state and federal agencies on matters related to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing as well as protecting traditional and cultural gathering rights. The commission may also advise County, State and Federal agencies on any matter affecting the taking and conservation of aquatic life and wildlife, including proposed rules and shall communicate its findings and recommendations to these agencies. Woman: You can do it. Man: Yeah. R. White: I think what B. Command’s saying and what I’m also hearing is that – and I know what you’re saying, Tom (Lodge), and I knew about that right there and I’m saying yes, we do have the ability to send this letter ourselves as a commission. What B. Command’s saying is if we do that we’re risking stepping on Kenoi’s feet. Do we want to do that? So, yes, we could do that. But do we want to? Woman: Why would you be stepping on his feet? Man: Cause we are the advisory commission… \[Group Discussion\] M. Wille: ….State, Federal and County Woman: You can cc the Mayor. 39 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 R. White: I’m not saying he won’t get a copy - he’ll get a copy… Man: Then what this commission for if you guys don’t petition to him? Then it’s gonna be like minimal. It’s not right. You just, you just heard that. Man: I guess the thing you’re looking at is concurrence, yeah? You’re looking for \[unclear\] concur… R. White: Right… Man:….recommendation. If it doesn’t concur that recommendation that’s – so what? You know? \[Group Discussion\] Man: It’s a catch 22. Man: ….not necessarily have concurrence. Chair Sylvester: ….Is that acceptable Lincoln as consul. L. Ashida: \[unclear\] Chair Sylvester: Make the motion and… T. Lodge: My motion is sign the letter and send it to the board. M. Bartell: Second. Action: A motion was made by T. Lodge/seconded by M. Bartell to sign the letter. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Letter will be sent to DLNR’s entire board, Attorney General, Mayor Kenoi and County Council. 4. UPDATE FROM DLNR ACCESS AND ACQUISITIONS COORDINATOR JORDAN JOKIEL Chair Sylvester: Update from DLNR access and acquisition coordinator Jordan Jokiel. He’s working really hard to try to get some access here and this is the latest as of September for Keamoku, the meeting with Commander Shwedo was th cancelled so they rescheduled for October 10. It seems unlikely that the military can commit to a dedicated long-term GMA agreement at Keamoku as the military needs unrestricted access to this training area. DOFAW will continue its work to 40 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 ensure that some level of access in public hunting is maintained, much like the present, in formal arrangement. That they also – Hamakua access DOFAW met with members of the planning department on September 11 to discuss ownership and management authority as well as maintenance issues, key roads leading to forest reserves and public hunting areas on Hawai’i Island, despite the fact that many of these roads are public right-of-ways to the forest end in locked gates and no trespassing signs. The jurisdiction of many of these roads or portions of these roads is unclear and collaboration between the county and DOFAW is important to ensure to increase public access and hunting opportunities. On October 11 DOFAW will conduct a site visit to Kamei \[sp?\], Chin Chock, Kapulu \[unclear\] Homestead, and Kawiki Homestead Roads with county planners and roads division staff to begin addressing issues of these \[unclear\] right-of- ways. DOFAW will work out some form agreement with the county to take over portions of these roads where there’s rights-of-ways to ensure public access beyond the end of the county road and no trespassing signs. And then Kumu (sp) forest reserve project – the access coordinator met John Cross, land agent for the Edmund, Olsen Trust, to work out the details of their agreement for public access to cross Olsen property to the forest reserve. Since that meeting a draft agreement incorporated Mr. Cross’s comments were sent back to John Cross. It’s being reviewed by the property owner and his attorneys. Upon receipt of their comments the agreement will be sent to DLNR’s Attorney General’s office for finalization. Kipuka Aina \[unclear\] license agreement – barely hanging on I think \[unclear\]. Access program is worked out. Revisions to their agreement with the AG’s office. This week the revision documents we sent to the Department of Hawaiian Homelands Attorney General’s office for their review, comment and finalization of their agreement. So it’s still currently a revocable permit at cross Pukainoho \[sp?\]. So we’ll our fingers that DLNR can secure that – because it’s very important to hunting for us right now. And also they met with th Kamehameha Schools on September 11 to discuss ways in which 2 agencies can work together on mutual, beneficial projects. I think this is a great idea. Presently there are no KS lands in the Kona or Kau side of Hawai’i Island that are available to DOFAW for increased public access or hunting opportunities. As most of these lands are currently leased. In November the access program will be with Kamehameha School to discuss any opportunities on the Hilo side. NEW BUSINESS Chair Sylvester: OK. Any new business? \[Pause\] NEXT MEETING Next meeting date is still open because we’re pretty busy. It’ll probably be January by the time we meet. 41 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 T. Nakama: I don’t know if this is relevant but the hula halaus might be joining forces. Chair Sylvester: OK. T. Nakama: So may I give them your contact information. Chair Sylvester: Please do. T. Nakama: Mahalo, because they’re being denied access to gather also. Chair Sylvester: OK. Thank you. ANNOUNCEMENTS Chair Sylvester: By all means. OK. Announcements. The EA for Pu’u Wa’awa’a Reserve and Pu’u Anahulu Game Management area have the early consultation by Garcia and Associates and they passed around some of that plan so I think it’s in our best interest that we support that plan, as hunters, and I think part of the mitigation is going to be fencing some of the conservation units and trying to drive some of the animals out. So, hopefully, we can work some way that we don’t have to eradicate animals in the conservation units and I hope that we work with DOFAW to attempt to do some of that. \[Unclear\] push them into other areas open to hunting instead of having to resort to… L. Hadway: And I would encourage you, you know if it’s cumbersome to get a formal commission comment in – I would really encourage you individually to make comments on the – particularly the game management access. M. Bartell: We will try again – we should get the Mayor to \[unclear\]. If in fact we have come to consensus \[unclear\] that’d be a recommendation to the Mayor. Then it’d be a recommendation to County Council. Right? L. Hadway: Certainly as it relates to the game portion of that \[unclear\] make sure that \[unclear\]. M. Bartell: How do we get a copy of this…? L. Hadway: Well it’s just in a free consultation thing \[unclear\]. It will most definitely be out. Chair Sylvester will be the point of contact. M. Bartell: OK. Cause us – that with maps and where it’s going to be fenced and roadways and \[unclear\] access and all \[unclear\]. 42 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 B. Command: Mark (Bartell), there’s a scoping letter in front of Tony (Sylvester) that you could take a look at. L. Hadway: So this is kind of the introduction to the fact that it’s coming out Request was made for a copy of the pre-scoping letter (information gathering) - document that is ready to be released with the environmental assessment. It will be made available usually by CD. \[Group Discussion\] th Chair Sylvester: So we have till October 14 is that it then? Dates and comments th on the \[unclear\] October 14 or is that just \[unclear\] for the EA portion? L. Hadway: It’s the EA portion preliminary scoping. So then when those preliminary comments come in that will become part of the EA document. D. Yoshida: Puuwaawa - so where are those? L. Hadway: They’re in the 2003 management plan that’s on the website. We can get that – hard copy. D. Yoshida: Ok, hard copy please. T. Lodge: I have a question on that HTP and the EA. When the EA is completed and one of their prerogatives, I believe, was to that upper area next to the bird sanctuary was to fence that area \[unclear\]. So, I can’t pronounce it \[unclear\] so as they are doing that fencing are they gonna commence doing the game management side of it as well or at least on the Puuanahulu side of it? L. Hadway: We have some concurrence from the Fish and Wildlife Service in particular our \[unclear\] that we can do some activities associated with that \[unclear\]. There’s gonna be hunting open up both mauka and makai starting th September 28 through October \[unclear\]. T. Lodge: I understand the hunting part, but the game management part - you’re dealing with the habitat, improving the habitat, planting some what have you – cause that EA said that, that plan you’re looking at is like a 20 or about 2025 I think it was. Fifteen or twenty year plan. You know because of tough people here will have to wait 20 years before we can start the game management \[unclear\]. L. Hadway: \[Unclear\] Chair Sylvester: One more comment, Pat? P. Pacheco: Yeah, I just wanted to the board members, to the commission here, I mean as we going to meetings and all we see the same hunters that understand 43 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 and know what’s going on. But again like I said and what Gino said in his testimony that there are hunters out there, we have good people out there. And they don’t know what the heck’s happening. I feel I’d like to make a suggestion to \[tape disturbance\] that each place you represent from – if you can by the Sunshine Law \[unclear\] that each one of you call a meeting and meet with your hunters from there. These hunters are lost period. Gino had testified it and they going outlaw and they gonna \[unclear\]. If they don’t really know what’s happening. Who knows what’s happening is around here. We have to reach that people out there. That’s the ones we gotta reach. \[Group Discussion\] Commission members agreed that they should meet with folks in their district especially the ones that do not have internet. Councilwoman Wille offered when GMAC gets it all together to do a presentation at the County Council level this will include the whole island and also promote your website. R. White: Speaking of the website – we’re taking the initiative of dedicating part of a private website to the commission and that’s something the county couldn’t do but it’s something that they’re able to do for us. So it’s a way for us to get our information out to the public – they have access through those who do have computers. So I’d like thank you for that. Woman: I wanted to comment a little bit ago. \[Unclear\] the Mayor \[unclear\] since you all are a new commission and are trying to wend your way through this relationship with the Mayor – the Mayor just sat 2 new commissions and then last week he said a brand new agriculture advisory commission and an energy advisory commission. And they Mayor came to swear in the commissioners and promised them to attend every other meeting – they also meet monthly and so I would like to suggest that the Game Management Advisory Commission extend that same invitation to him \[unclear\] that you formally invite him to every other meeting. ADJOURNMENT Chair Sylvester: Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Action: A motion was made by W. Camara to adjourn the meeting/Seconded by K. DeCoito. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Chair Sylvester: The meeting’s adjourned. Thank you everyone. 44 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – September 23, 2013 Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow, Secretary ATTEST: Anthony H. Sylvester, II 45