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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-01-26 Game Management Advisory Commission MinutesHawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: Monday, January 26, 2015 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building — Council Chambers and via Video Conferencing to West Hawaii Civic Center, Mayors Conference Room I. CALL TO ORDER: Meeting was called to order at 6:38pm. II. ROLL CALL: Per B. Kossow: Willie -Joe Camara, District 1 - absent Dwayne "Ike" Yoshina, District 2 Anthony "Tony" Sylvester, District 3 Paul Bueltmann, District 4 - absent Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 Kenneth "Kalani" DeCoito, District 6 District 7 - Vacant Mark C. Bartell — District 8 District 9 — Vacant Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Craig Masuda, Corporation Counsel Barbara Kossow, Administrative Specialist B. Command, Deputy Planning Director arrived before 7 p.m. III. Announcements and Introductions: Laureen Martin, Attorney with Hawaii County Corporation Counsel IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: November 17, 2014 Action: D. Yoshina moved to approve the minutes; seconded by M. Bartell. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Discussion on the minutes - My name is Robert Shook, I testified at the last meeting. It had to do with Ikua Purdy. I did mention that when he was caught for slaughtering cattle to feed his people, when they had caught him, they had beaten him so bad that he was never the same again. That is not showing in the minutes. Because it said they caught him and they were going to hang him as a cattle rustler and they hanged a few people along the way — cattle rustling today — we call them invasive. It doesn't say anything about what they did to Ikua Purdy. Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 BK: Testimony is verbatim. Thank you. V. Budget Report: None VI. Public Testimony on Agenda Items: VII. Discussion: 1. Carry over Testimony from Last Meeting (November 17, 2014) a. Cattle recovery and sale R. Shock: Basically, I just here to see if there's any possibility of — on this thing that I brought up on the last one with cattle and stuff like that — if there's any possibility of land we can probably get a hold of and maybe start or implement some kind of "catch and release" program. MB: I read the whole proposal from front to back and I think it's a great idea. How is it you want GMAC to help you? I'm trying to figure out to ask — I don't know if you were telling us, "Hey, this is what we want to do —just FYI," or you're coming to GMAC and saying, "Hey, this is what we want to do and I could use your help here." RS: Perfect. Now I have something to go on because prior to this I had no knowledge of this at all. I'm just stepping into this. I'd like GMAC to step in and help with possible land, you know, if they have any or what not or an area that we could possibly lease land. As an Aha Moku group we have no money, we have nothing, but we're willing to put it up, whatever it takes to make this thing happen. Direction, direction would be a good thing at this point. Does anybody have suggestions on top of what was said to help get something off the ground? Does anybody have any other ideas? Through my plan or through my idea — we'll be able to employ people, if possible, yeah, with the resources that we have, using the resources that we have. And it wouldn't cost a whole lot to invest in something like this. I think they have a venture, venture capital is what they call something like this — where you put a small amount of money to see what it can create or what it can make. We're banking on animals that are already here. We're banking on resources that is already here. All we got to do is find the market. And with the market, it helps produce money, this money produces jobs, you know, it creates a whole new section. "Catch and Release," if we have... TS: Excuse me, Robert... I got a question. I want to —just slow down a little bit just for our audience here because a few people here that weren't here before. So you're talking about the feral cattle. 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 RS: Feral cattle, feral sheep, feral goats, feral everything that is considered feral... TS: And, relocating them to.... Some area for livestock or whatever it is, right? RS: Management, hunting... TS: Yeah, but feral cattle... Do you know what the classification for feral cattle is? Other than feral cattle... RS: Classification ... They considered invasive right now. TS: Are they? RS: Yeah, they're considered invasive. On Hawaiian Homes land they totally invasive. TS: That might be the problem, because if it's deemed invasive then it might be difficult to relocate them without special permits and so forth. I mean it's stuff we can try to find out, but I know when we relocated animals from Mauna Kea and we had everybody working with us at that time — Fish and Wildlife Service — DLNR — National Park and some hunting groups — and even in the end that — we fell into problems even with all those agencies helping us. So that's one thing to keep in mind if we try to look into this a little more. I think there's two problems: one is trying to find land and the other one is to see if legally we can relocate animals without having to do an EA or something like that. Thank you. TL: Robert, we're getting off of our agenda here — this is a discussion that should be an agenda item. What you need to do — and my request from you is to put together a proposal that we can actually look at and you're gonna have to do some ground work — you're gonna have to find where the land could be and then we can take that up at that time. Great ideas that you have, I mean, nobody disputes that, but we need to have a proposal, I mean, these, this is not just a forum here. So if you can give Mark, if you see Mark — make, write up a proposal to him that he can forward to us that we can then take a look at and put it on the agenda and see if we can do it. RS: All right. Thank you. KD: This is Kalani (DeCoito) from Kau. Yeah, because that one — cattle fall under ungulates — split hoof, ah? So, brah, I can kind of help you out on this one too. If you can ask one of them for my number, give me one call after. We can kinda work together with this. RS: Ok, thank you. Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 2. Laureen Martin, Office of Corporation Counsel a. Aerial Shooting Ordinance Chair Tom introduced Laureen Martin. She is the attorney that helped with that lawsuit that the State brought against the County of Hawaii for aerial eradication on our (County) ordinance that we have against any aerial shooting. She did an excellent job and we're very proud to have her here this evening to answer any questions. TS: There's supposed to be a court filing at the end — that the plaintive and the defendant's supposed to submit — has that been completed? LM: It's been partially completed. The order has been signed by Judge Hara but the judgment still needs to be signed. It's been submitted to him, so we're just waiting for that. After the judgment is entered, then the appeal can occur. TL: There is a bill — right now that's out — H.B. 799, it's asking the Legislature to approve aerial eradication and I think that you said that should that happen — then our (County) ordinance becomes sort of null. Is that correct? LM: In all probability, if the State does exempt the State from aerial — the 263.10 — then, yes, the ordinance would probably be preempted — as to the State. TS: In the past and I don't know if it's something to be answered — but if DLNR was issuing permits to other agencies to conduct this stuff, How does that work too? How can they issue a permit to an illegal activity? LM: It's interesting because Judge — I guess I should, I really do need to be a little careful because there is this possibility of the appeal and it could come back — but Judge Hara didn't rule that it was necessarily an illegal activity. So, of course, that's the County's position — if it is an illegal activity and the State cannot authorize that — then the permits would not be valid — it would be illegal. TL: Well, the State — I mean this bill if it passes it reads — notwithstanding any other law to the contrary State employees and independent contractors retained by the State may while in flight in, across, or above the State intentionally kill or attempt to kill any wildlife in the furtherance of official State duties. That sort of — that solves that question that he just asked, right? 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 LM: If that law passes. MB: What Judge Hara said was I won't exempt you from 263-10, but I will not deem — he has not deemed prior eradication flights by DLNR a violation of the law? LM: Judge Hara actually did not rule. He said that he did not have jurisdiction to decide whether the State was in violation or not. Or whether the State could conduct aerial hunting. MB: So basically then it's still in limbo, whether 263-10 applies to DLNR. The County says it does — they don't believe it does. LM: That's correct, but, because they filed the lawsuit and it was dismissed even though it was on a jurisdictional ground — and now you see the State proposing this new legislation. I think there's some recognition by the State that they cannot do it, right ... that they're very concerned about it. MB: Yes, so I would connect those dots as well. So with that being said, so let's say we connect those dots — ensures — sure enough - they are in violation of 263-10. There are penalties associated with 263-10. As a private citizen could I go after the State for all the times they've flown and eradicated? And — for the violation of that law — and the penalty associated with it? LM: Only the Prosecutor can enforce criminal laws. I doubt you could bring a civil action. My understanding is the last time they had State conducted aerial hunting was in 2009 — I would expect any statute of limitations for civil and criminal actions would have run by now. MB: Your prediction on next steps in terms of what DLNR is likely to do? LM: I think that they will appeal Judge Hara's ruling and in the mean time it sounds like they're appealing — I mean they're pursuing that bill. If the bill passes then they will probably dismiss their appeal. MB: Where would the appeal go? LM: To the Intermediate Court of Appeals in Honolulu. MB: Would the County be associated with that at all? LM: Yes, we're a party to the litigation so we would continue to defend the action. Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 MB: When would we know the likely outcome of that whether they're going to appeal or not? LM: They have thirty days from the judgment and we're waiting for the judgment to be entered. TL: For my own clarification — a judgment is when everybody signs off on things — is that when the judgment becomes final? LM: Not necessarily. It's basically the formal end of the action. So we have the order, which has been signed by Judge Hara — it's very similar to the order — but it's a sign that the entire case is over and until the judgment is entered the court of appeals would not have jurisdiction. TL: And once it's signed off then they have 30 days. LM: Exactly. And they can get an extension from the judge, but usually you people don't need an extension. TL: Do you have any thoughts on this, of your own? LM: I think we have a strong case on appeal. I think a lot — and I think obviously the State probably is worried about that as well and that's why they're pursuing the legislation. Which they probably should have pursued a while ago, but there may be reasons why they didn't, you know, maybe they think it's not likely or maybe difficult to have the legislature approve it. MB: Are we the only county that has a no-fly and shoot ordinance? LM: I assume so just because if there was more than one — they'd probably try and combine all the actions. TS: What is the federal policy and was it in 1972 that the Feds allowed aerial eradication. LM: Yes. Under the — that palila order, right, the consent decree... It's permitted in the palila habitat. Under the federal statutes they have a ban on aerial hunting, except for the federal government, and the states are permitted to exclude themselves as well. MB: Until that time people were shooting bald eagles and things like that on the mainland ... so they banned shooting from aircraft in 1972 except for the feds because they needed to control wolves, coyotes or whatever it was at that time. 31 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 DY: So in the State of Hawaii — the federal government is allowed to aerially eradicate in the palila habitat area? LM: The federal government can aerial eradicate wherever it wants. DY: I see ... And does it have the authority to do that in Hawaii? LM: Yes. Under the supremacy clause — the federal government can make laws that are gonna trump state law or local laws and that's what they've done. They've permitted themselves to do aerial hunting. DY: They've actually said that for Hawaii? LM: That's the federal law. Whether they're exercising that right is another thing. DY: So they haven't really specified for themselves that power or authority in Hawaii? It's just a general... LM: It's nationwide the law. TS: Only on federal land, though, not over state land? LM: I'd have to look — to tell you the truth. TS: Because on the mainland it's mostly federal land. LM: I would assume so. TS: That's part of land management — is federal land — whereas Hawaii is state. LM: Yeah, I would assume so. You could imagine that there would be certain constitutional rights and property rights that an individual would have, you know, that would prevent the federal government from coming and destroying your property... But the way the law's written — my understanding is it's quite broad. KD: Who determines what to eradicate and when? I mean basically if you feel that this is one nuisance — OK let's go and just take `em out — that's the whole attitude about it. LM: Yeah. The state — and there are some — obviously there's some statutes and this is what the State's relying on — is the DLNR's management rights and the right to manage wildlife and that's what they're kind of hanging their hat on — is that that permits them to make those kinds of decisions 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 and clearly there are some rights under there for the DLNR to do that — and they're extending it because they have those management rights — that means that they can do this aerial hunting. KD: So they instead of work with the public — they can decide not to and just say naw we're not going to work with the public — we just gonna take means into our own hands and basically whatever anybody has as far as, you know, the State constitution, as far as gathering rights and what have you — and for feed their family and that's one resource — they out the door because the State says naw, we're not going work with them — we not going give nobody one chance — we just going take `em up. So basically that's the attitude. That's what I'm hearing... LM: Yeah. It sounds like that is the State's attitude but I don't think there's anything illegal about it. There are some statutes that clearly indicate that the department — that DLNR should be working with the public and the groups interested in it — but I don't think that would create a cause of action — if they didn't... KD: Is there any records or files that is stating that they went work with the public and asked them if they could come out and like say give them a year or two to try and see if they could do the hunting instead, instead of just go out and do the determination? LM: No, there's no requirement like that that I've come across. KD: That's what I figured. DY: Do you know when specifically these animals were determined to be invasive? Who determined that? •[7iiii.Tti DY: So some bureaucrat in the DLNR could just say oh we should just call these guys invasive and it becomes invasive? LM: Honestly, I don't know. But at some level these are functions that you do expect the government to do, right, you do expect the government to determine when certain animals become a nuisance or when they need — what management activity should take — should occur, right, so it's not that unusual. I think the frustration is a large part of the community feels excluded and not listened to — that their input is not being heard. TL: That's correct. One thing about — in answer to Kalani's question — if there's federal monies involved in any of these activities — the public has to be included — now whether they're using some other organization to satisfy Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 that requirement — I don't know. But they're not satisfying it with us — we are not going — our commission or hunting groups or whatever or the calyx [sp?] even on Kauai saying hey this is what we want to do — we want to spend money on this project, that project, or whatever. We don't have any input into that — we're supposed to. So that's another thing maybe we might want to discuss with the County Council going down the road as well. Anyway, any other questions otherwise we'll let Laureen go on with her evening. LM: Thank you. It was a pleasure working with you all on this case, by the way. TL: We appreciate the work that you did. 3. Tony Sylvester — Finance Factors Property U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is interested in purchasing these properties. It will connect Hakalau National Wildlife Refuge which is right above it so this will connect it all the way down to Pepeekeo. There are two parcels, 12,000 and 1,700. We are interested in the smaller portion, a very small piece of that, so that we would have a permanent access into the State reserve. It was determined to pursue the County's PONC a preservation program with the assistance of Councilwomen Valerie Poindexter's aid Sunshine Carter. A draft resolution for the County Council to expedite the process is in the works. Also, a letter from Mayor Kenoi supporting this effort is in the file. Tony feels it is worth pursuing. However, he is not able to actively work on this project due to the legislative sessions. He needs people to sit through the whole process if we're gonna do it. Ike and Kalani will pursue PONC for right now. Teresa Nakama offered to be on the subcommittee. Mark to forward T. Nakama's contact information to Ike. The PONC process usually takes about a year and a half. It was also suggested to invite a representative of PONC to GMAC meeting to learn more about its program. A proposal needs to be made to Finance Factors if we are to pursue PONC process. I Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 It was also suggested that the Planning department flag its records should these properties sell so that possibly an easement could be worked out with the new owner(s). 4. Commission Focus and Legislative Agenda for 2015 a) Wanton waste proposed bill in process although no word back from the individual who is submitting that bill. Wanton waste means, "to intentionally waste something negligently or inappropriately." Hawaii is one of two states that do not have some kind of wanton waste legislation. Most states have laws to the effect that a person may not wantonly waste or destroy a usable part of a protected wild animal unless authorized. No one shall waste a wild bird or wild animal that has been wounded or killed while hunting. Any act that results in wanton or needless waste of the animal or otherwise intentionally allows it or an edible portion thereof to be wantonly or needlessly wasted or fails to dispose it in a reasonable and sanitary manner amounts to a misdemeanor offense. b) State Commission bill — in process no number assigned as yet. This is a good bill. More info to follow from Tony. C) H.B. 440 — Relating to Land and Natural Resources - Report Title: Forest Conservation and Access — Description: Appropriates funds for land and natural resources. We need to decide if we will support or oppose but we could make comments. There are some really good things in it however there are some unknowns. $4 million for 2015 — 2016 and the same sum for 2016-2017 for a watershed management plans. $1.5 million for fire prevention and some invasive species — mainly plant and fuel load control, and one million for access and trails. Concerns: Title of the bill, bill that hold places and the general nature of the title makes it easy to gut and put in anything they want later on, as long as it relates to land and natural resources. No definitions regarding conservation, forest conservation what does that mean. What is meant by expanded ranges of invasive species? The specificity of what species they're talking about. Isn't it usually a practice that when bills are introduced they're supposed to be one subject only and not multiple subjects? 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 Where is the money coming from — what's the source of the money? At the opening of the legislature in the Senate — Donna Mercado Kim mentioned taking the County share of the Transient Accommodations Taxes for something very similar to this. And if that's the source of the money then —we need to find out because it's a very important part of the County's budget - 15% or 16% of our budget every year. We need to also find out if there is an S.B. companion on the Senate side. If the transient tax is taken from the County, Ike is against this bill. Need to communicate with one of the people who signed the bill. Tony is working on that and Mark has offered to help. Tony is researching to see what is in the Governor's budget for the watershed protection. This bill must be watched because it will move quickly. Must find out when the specificity happens and what it's all about. d) H.B. 514 — Relating to funds controlled by the DLNR — Report Title: DLNR; Program Funding — Description: Authorizes deposit of funds for the trail and access program into the wildlife revolving fund via the special land and development fund. Rep. Cindy Evans introduced this bill. Appears to be putting money into the Wildlife Revolving Fund - DOFAW would support it but the Land Division will likely not like the transfer from SLDF (Special Land and Development Fund) to Wildlife Revolving. DOFAW supports the bills — they did not originate them. Sponsor unknown - Appears that this bill is to increase funding the Wildlife Revolving Fund. Ike asked is the Wildlife Revolving Fund connected to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Pittman -Robertson funds and the way that it is connected to Pittman -Robertson is that any funds that Pittman -Robertson uses as a match that has — is for wildlife — come — the way the 183D-10 is written right now, which is the Wildlife Revolving Fund — it first uses Wildlife Revolving Fund monies for those purposes. Tony will research and obtain more information. Commissioners asked to review bills online — about 30 different hunting related bills - forward any concerns or comments to Tony. e) Other bills of interest: 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 H.B. 799 — Report title: Uniform Aeronautics Act - Clarifies the authority of the State, its employees, or its independent contractors, to remove birds or animals by aerial means in furtherance of office State duties. H.B. 519 — Establishes requirements for DLNR to issue hunting apprentice permits authorizing persons without a hunting license to hunt under direct supervision of a licensed hunter and requires the hunter education program to be available online. H.B. 675 — Establishes a watershed initiatives program in DLNR. Subjects program employees to the civil service laws and appropriates monies. H.B. 647 — Relating to conservation of resources. Establishes penalties for the destruction or harvesting of native sandalwood trees - Requires replanting for trees harvested - Bans the export of raw or unprocessed native sandalwood timber - Establishes DLNR's policies regarding sandalwood. IX: Committee Reports: Covered above X. Commissioner's Reports/Concerns by District: None XI: Future Meetings Tentatively Scheduled: February 23 and March 23, 2015. XII: Adjournment: Action: D. Yoshina moved to adjourn; seconded by T. Sylvester. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. Respectfully submitted by, Barbara Kossow Secretary ATTEST: Tom Lodge Chairperson Game Management Advisory Commission 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes — January 26, 2015 13