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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-06-27 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 Time: 6:30 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building – Council Chambers I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:32pm. Willie-Joe Camara, District 1 – here Dwayne “Ike” Yoshina, District 2 – here District 3 – vacant Naniloa Poglen, District 4 - here Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 - here Kenneth “Kalani” DeCoito, District 6 - here Bronsten-Glen “Kalei” Kossow, District 7 - absent Teresa Nakama, District 8 – here Jonathan Bartsch – absent Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Joseph Kamelamela, Corporation Counsel Donna Urban-Higuchi, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim GUESTS: Jon Sabati, Newly Elected Chair -Hawaii State Game Mgt. Comm. Ryan Kohatsu, Newly Installed East Hawaii Commissioner Anthony Sylvester II, past chair of GMAC James Cogswell, Dept. of Forestry and Wildlife James O’Keefe – Hawaii Shooting Range Site Selection Comm. Steve Bergfeld, Big Island Manager, Department of Forestry & Wildlife Joey Mello, State Dept. of Forestry & Wildlife 2. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES Dwayne Yoshina made an amendment to section 5, paragraph 5 to reflect, “Commissioner Tom Lodge spoke to Mr. Cogswell…”. The minutes are approved as corrected. Seconded by Willie-Joe Camara. Motion carried unanimously by a voice vote. 3. APPROVAL OF ADDENDUM AND/OR SUPPLEMENTAL AGENDA 1 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 None 4. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC None 5. COMMUNICATIONS A. FINANCIAL (BUDGET) REPORT None B. LEGISLATIVE REPORT: State Game Management Advisory Commission TL: GMAC (County) had been in discussion to form a statewide commission on or about 2014. Anthony “Tony” Sylvester, 2014 Chairman of the Commission, was instrumental in drafting a Bill. Mark Bartell and Colin Onaka both from Kona helped in this effort. In 2016, the Bill made it to the House Judiciary but was tabled. An appreciation of gratitude goes out to Representative Richard Onishi through his negotiation with Senator Karl Rhoads of the House Judiciary, the state commission was formed. On April 2016, a few County GMAC commissioners testified at the State Capitol. Jon Sabati was elected State commission Chair. C. PRESENTATION: 1. Jon Sabati – Newly elected Chair of the Hawaii State Game Management Advisory Commission. Opening Statements and Goals for the Commission. JS: John Sabati thanked everybody for working hard and getting the state commission put together. He indicated that there are good people on the State commission board. He further mentioned that there seems to be a lot of issues that need to be prioritized. Every island is different. One goal is to build bridges of communications between the communities and DOFAW. There is a need to work together with the community, hunters and with the county GMAC to achieve positive outcome. Mr. Sabati mentioned that it is important to work with the county GMAC because each district has a representative who can assist in reaching out to the hunters. In the near future, John Sabati plans to set up a Facebook account; he currently has a West Hawaii GMAC gmail account. Prior to the next meeting in August, John Sabati will be networking and getting input from the hunters. He would like to have a meeting with the different districts and would like to invite the County GMAC to attend those meetings. 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TL: Tom Lodge expressed that the County GMAC wanted to have district meetings but did not materialize. Mr. Lodge would like to work together and support the State GMAC. NP: Nani Pogline asked, “Could you tell us a little more about the aerial shooting of the goats that you mentioned?” JS: John Sabati indicated that DOFAW’s goal is to shoot goats on the island of Oahu. DOFAW made a presentation to the State GMAC and showed areas where the goats were but the place is inaccessible to hunters. There seems to be a concern with the Board of Water Supply land because it is in the boundary of the hunting grounds. He mentioned that the goats cross back and forth. Their plan is to fly and shoot the goats to achieve zero population but there is no fence and does not have any plans to build a fence because it is too costly. If DOFAW continue shooting, there will be a negative effect of the goat population in the hunting area. Josiah Jury, Commisioner, State GMAC will be meeting with DOFAW to further discuss the issue. 2. Ryan Kohatsu – Newly installed East Hawaii Commissioner. Opening Statement and vision. RK: Ryan Kohatsu expressed his appreciation to the County GMAC and to Representative Richard Onishi for supporting the State Commission. Mr. Kohatsu indicated that the outcome of the first meeting with the State Game Management Advisory Commission was positive. He felt that those who attended the meeting were cooperative. Mr. Kohatsu stated by working together and having open communication with the community and hunters, positive results can be achieved in the future. He provided his contact information: ryankohatsu@gmail.com; and mentioned that he is also in Facebook as Hawaii Sportsmen Alliance. Send your comments, concerns and more importantly ideas and express how one can help and become a part of the team. TL: Anybody have any questions for Ryan? Anyone from the public? Mr. Lodge thanked Ryan Kohatsu for all the hard work his put into. He also mentioned that Mr. Kohatsu has the ability to reach out to people. Mr. Lodge offered his support to Ryan Kohatsu and Jon Sabati who are both accessible and looks forward to working with the State GMAC and DOFAW staff. 3. Anthony Sylvester II, past chair of GMAC, on need for reliable venue for scholastic shooting sports, 4-H, and Boy Scouts TL: Mr. Lodge introduced Tony Sylvester who started the commission years ago. Tony is now embarking on a new project. 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TS: Tony Sylvester expressed his appreciation to the Chair and to the commission members for their time and effort with the game commission. He mentioned that recently they were able to establish and bring back the 4-H shooting sports program to Hawaii County – about a twenty year absence. Mr. Sylvester mentioned that there is already a place set up on a private property for this year to have the first classes. Mr. Sylvester is asking for possible ideas for a future venue. He stated that it’s been very difficult to establish a reliable shooting venue. He is aware that there’s other issues with shooting ranges and so forth. Mr. Sylvester stated with the change in the Mayor’s administration and other departments, people don’t want to really address the issues – it may scare people off when one starts talking about shooting sports. Next Spring, air rifle and archery are the type of sports that will be enforce. Since it will be off season, the older kids will probably be more interested in air rifle. This will be a good way to provide a venue and allow them to train and practice prior to the regular season. The younger kids will practice archery while the older kids can volunteer to mentor the younger children. He mentioned that they are trying to get a venue and have gone through the easy channels of Waiakea Rec Centers. There’s a lot of complications in scheduling and timing for these things to happen. They are willing to think outside the box – possibly a warehouse – preferably a place with lighting since it will probably be in the evening because kids go to school during the day and other sports so it would be something in the later evenings from five to seven. There’s a little bit of classroom time in the beginning to get everybody on board. After that it would just be the training and instruction. He is asking for support from the County Council or GMAC members and would like to meet and discuss their plans and in hope to get this moving. There’s a lot of opportunities and benefits in 4-H as far as getting grants and scholarships to go to college for the kids who join. He asked, If anyone knows of kids interested in becoming a member in 4-H, Becky Settlage, County Extension Agent, maybe contacted for additional information. Mr. Sylvester may also be contacted. There are currently 38 kids who signed up. The goals is to reach 50 kids. TL: Mr. Lodge expressed that he is in full support of any of the shooting sports and people that dedicate themselves to that sport. How big an area do you need? 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TS: For each discipline a 40 x 40’ ft area would be ideal because we’d like to run them simultaneous. And then we have everything. We have all the target stands, back drops, everything so thanks to Jon and Wild Turkey Federation they jumped in and donated ten bows right off the top so that got us started there and then Friends of NRA donated the air rifles and we’re just responsible for the targets and pellets and we got the backdrops – everything was sponsored by the Friends of NRA. KD: Is finding the facility a concern? At Kau High School, students use the gym. TS: There are concerns about finding a place. Some schools use the eaves of the gym and it’s not safe due to the wind factor. Other schools use their gym but the gym is also used for other sports activity. For next year, Waiakea gym maybe a possibility but may pose as a dangerous sport activity with other folks bringing in rifles to the school setting. Will need to talk to Tommy Correa. NP: I wanted to say I appreciate the safe use of firearms – responsible – cause I remember my son and paint ball guns and nobody was teaching these kids. They’d go out and shoot each other and come home with giant welts. They weren’t nearly as safe. Yeah, a good mission. TL: We’ll work with you a little bit more. I’ll spend a little more time with you on this but we definitely would like to support this completely. And you’re around the island too, right. TS: Yes. Right now we’re looking for something on the East side just because that’s where everybody’s at here – with the committee and stuff – but we’d like to expand it more. That’s why we’re trying to look for a central location so we can get at least Hamakua and Puna, part of Kau to come. It might be a little more difficult for the Kona side but that’s why we’re having it this first time – it starts July 13 and it’s on a Thursday. The first one will be just for kids to come in – we’re gonna have just a kind of a fun shoot just a little bit of class and safety and get them to try to shoot little bit – see if they like it and if they’re interested then we’re gonna enroll them in 4-H and then we’ll have some classroom and discussions and then things like that and then the program will move on from there. After that, every Thursday will be practice st and then we’ll have a competition shoot on the 31. So it’s gonna be a short season – just capture them for that month and a half. TL: Air rifle shoots are a huge business. WJC: Is this something that they can go on to a national level? TS: Oh, yes. State then National. 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 WJC: It’s the same as the livestock in other words... Right. TS: Exactly. WJC: The goal ultimately is to go to a National competition. TS: Yes. The first year is in Hilo. Next year, we hope to expand to West Hawaii. Currently, Oahu has something already. We’ll try to get another county so that we can have a state meet. In hope to go the national competition. KD: There is a girl that has a disability with her legs but that does not stop her from the sport. She is currently one of the instructors at our sites. If for any reason you are not successful in getting a place, we can try something in my district. They really go all out. They have their own rifles and everything. WJC: 4-H is an outstanding program. TS: Yes, people don’t realize record books are kept. It’s not just raising animals but also keeping a log of how much grain is used and weight rations. The kids are learning math. Willie-Joe, you’ve been through all of that... WJC: I know. Been there done that. It is a great, great, great organization. TS: The speaking part is what really impressed me because like my daughter’s relatively shy and in three years she’s at the national level and it’s quite impressive for the kids so...Thank you 4. James Cogswell Department of Forestry and Wildlife. I. Big Island Game Management Plan – Draft Revisions for Review TL: Mr. Lodge introduced James Cogswell, Program Manager, Department of Forestry and Wildlife who will be reporting on the Big Island Game Management Plan JC: It’s been distributed to the working group – specifically Jon Sabati, Richard Hoeflinger, John Polhemus, Shaya and Kanalu and so they’re gonna take a look at the draft and get back with comments and work amongst themselves to finalize and verify the details on the ground that may have changed over the last 15 years. So that’s going well. TL: Nobody else on the working group that you distributed to? 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 JC: I was talking to Jon Sabati about who was on that working group and I think those are the people that he mentioned. I don’t know if I’m free to give it to other members of the working group but I don’t know the names. TL: Well, I was one of those members. I have been talking about this for a long time. JC: OK, I can correct that. I will be working with the working group because it’s not an official DOFAW document yet. ll. State Game Management Advisory Commission Implementation and Processes. Discussion on How We Work Together? TL: The State Game Management Advisory Commission implementation and processes. Your thoughts and or what you may share with Shaya who is part of that group as well, I believe, Ryan? Share your vision for the commission and how we can help support that from our commission. WJC: Sorry. Can we go back to that management plan for one second? How is that not a DOFAW plan? JC: Well, it is a DOFAW plan but it’s still a draft form so I think the working group that have put it together – they should get the first eyes on it – make their comments first before it’s released publically and... WJC: So it will get released publically... JC: Absolutely, yeah, and we’ll work through the state commission to release that and it’ll be part of their role in the communication – improving the communication between – with the administration and the community. TL: Are you familiar how that got started? WJC: I don’t know, we’ve been talking about it for five years. TL: Longer than that, actually. WJC: Well, since we’ve been here and have yet to see anything. TL: It all started back in 2007. And Scott Fretz had a meeting up in Waimea – Scott Fretz brought this up and a number of us came forward and volunteered to work on this group – we were done with it by 2010. It’s finally back out so that’s the genesis and where it’s been so far. NP: Is there a deadline for the working group to comment? 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 JC: I haven’t put one - they’ll have to assign that themselves – after they see the workload that’s in front of them. TL: Anybody else have any questions? DY: We’ve been interested in this for a long, long time and I would hope that the State Game Management Advisory Group lets us see it. JC: Right, certainly. DY: And so it’s rather interesting that we don’t even have a copy. And I understand about drafts and so if you have a draft then you tell us it’s a draft and we understand the protocols of that. So I would appreciate getting a draft. TN: Is it all right for every member of the county GMAC to receive a draft copy for those of us who are just recently on board – we’d like to know what it’s all about and see how it affects our area. Is that possible? TL: I would assume it’s possible. TN: Then I’d like to receive – I’d like every member to receive a copy of that draft. JC: OK. I’ll discuss that with the working group and the commission and they can distribute it as they see fit. TN: And what is your contact number so we can follow-up with this? JC: My contact number is 808.587-4187. TN: Thank you, Jim. TL: Any questions from the community for Mr. Cogswell on the Game Management Plan for the Big Island? Steven? Come up here and use the microphone. SA: I’m Steven Araujo. I also understand that a game management plan was written for this island, right? Fifty thousand dollars was paid from the Hunters’ Wildlife Revolving Fund for that plan. I don’t think that anybody should request it – it was bought and paid for through the Wildlife Fund which is the hunter’s license money. Demand it. Don’t ask for it, it’s yours. You paid for it. So this is my advice to the council – tell ‘em you want ‘em. I want ‘em by this date by this time. It’s been years everybody only ask – demand it. Get it on your desk in the mail, email or whatever. OK. Thank you. 8 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 DY: I have a question for clarification. So Steve says $50,000 was paid for this thing and is the draft available. If you paid for it – it’s paid for – it’s bought. It’s a public record. It should be distributed. JC: There’s channels of communication that we are trying to establish through the working group and the commission. DY: My understanding is that I was getting a copy and a request made by GMAC (County) to get a copy to each commissioner. When was this $50,000 spent by the way? TL: Seven years ago... JC: That was before my time. WJC: I guess a little bit of my frustration is why can’t we get a copy of the original that was written so that we know what everybody’s working with, I mean, why can’t we see what was paid for, right? I mean, it was paid for, it was written, now hand it over to DOFAW for a review or whatever – why can’t we see what was written in the first place and then continue on with the process. Obviously, there’s going to be amendments to it – it’s not going to be perfect but why can’t anybody see what’s there, I mean, what is so secretive about this whole deal. I mean we’ve been asking for years to see this thing. JC: I’m sure we can work this out. WJC: OK. TL: Again to his question. We are a long way away from the original draft. JC: I don’t think we’re a long ways away, no, this is based off the original draft... TL: No, I understand that part. So my giving him the original draft is not a problem, right. JC: It’s only a draft and not official. DOFAW policy hasn’t been accepted by DOFAW as the official management plan – we’ve been working off of that draft since it was created to work on some of the issues that was brought up within the draft and correcting some of the things – one of the suggestions of the draft was creating the commission and that’s been done. Another suggestion was increasing communication with the hunting community and we’ve started a list and a 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 newsletter which I encourage you all to go and sign up for – so, I mean, we’ve been working off the plan. WJC: OK. It just would be nice to see what we’re working with – I mean, what we started with. WJC: I’d just like to have a paper in front of me to read. ‘Cause as of now, all I know is there’s this supposed draft that we paid fifty grand for but nobody has ever seen it but the people who got the fifty grand and DOFAW. I don’t know – to me that doesn’t sound very good for the public and that’s the first I’ve ever heard of the money involved with this but, so that’s why it’s kind of irritating me a little bit, anything would be nice. It’s almost ten years. JS: Excuse me. OK. This is Jon Sabati speaking. I was a volunteer on that working group and that was like almost 12 years ago – all the members that were on the working group were volunteers and nobody got paid so I personally do not know what the money was spent for. So that I believe we can get the answer probably from Scott Fretz. TL: I can give you that answer right now. The money was paid to have the draft compiled and it took a year to have that compiled. And Dick Hoeflinger was the gentleman that was selected to compile that draft and that is in fact where the money went as well as there was the other things that go along with it, right, worker’s comp and some of that other stuff that goes with it. So that’s where the money went. TN: This is Teresa. If the report was compiled and completed – I figure compiled means the draft has been completed – so that’s what you have as a working document – so that’s the document we’re asking to have a copy of... WJC: Correct. TN: And we’re asking if that is doable and that’s all we’re asking that it be sent to us. Thank you. DY: Just for clarification. If it’s possible to get that document and the new draft – that’s what I would like to see. I would like to see the original and your new draft, because I’d like to make a comparison to see what’s been changed – what improvements have been made – those kinds of things – if there are any policy statements in the original versus what you guys have produced – that would be helpful. So, you know, Teresa might be asking for the original document – I’d like to see both, if possible. Thank you. 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TN: I would figure by now that these many years have passed that upon the original document of the draft there are notes that changes may have occurred and I would figure that these notes would be on the original document that you now call a draft. So I’m asking for both – just like you Ike. JC: I’ll have to discuss with the working group and with the commission. lll. Game Rules Update – concerns such as 1200 foot pounds being required (44 mag e.g.) not legal but in a pistol, is legal. Muzzle loader bore diameter vs. projectile (sabot) TL: Game Rules update. This started in 2007 and in 2015 there was a modified draft that came out. Some small changes were made to the original but by and large none of the recommendations or requests from the public were actually incorporated into that 2015 document pretty much. Is that accurate? JM: I don’t know of any but I can’t say that for sure. TL: OK. But there’s a lot and would like to get it started again. We have been talking about getting a group together for two years now. What we would like to see and now I do know that there are some that would like to can the entire rules and regulations and start all over and I’m not sure how the rest of the commissioners feel about that but although I do agree there that there could be a lot of improvement to that document – I’m not sure that I’m behind it completely. There are some practical changes that I would like to see like in my own case being able to have a rubber blunt in my quiver, for example, and a lot of other things. Tony brought up the1200 foot pound rule for 44 mag for example, you know, not legal on a rifle, but it’s legal on a pistol and so, you know, there’s a lot of inconsistencies in this thing here that we’d like to get started on it. So I’d like to get your opinion as to how we should get started. JM: The request has to go through – I mean, you would have to forward it up if we’re going to start that. I, personally I think now that we have both commissions – I think the commissions should start to go about gathering all of the information that we want to put in and come up with a product to submit to the department and then get into our admin, which would be Jim and start the process and open it up. There’s a wide gamut of how we can do the rule changes. Rules light to rules heavy which would be tear it up and start all over, of course, what we mean is start all over first and then submit and then tear up the old ones obviously. But remember, as most of you know now, I mean, we still have a lot of people that don’t understand it – come to the office and say there should be a rule or you guys ought to do this and our rules are authorized by Hawaii Revised Statutes, right, and so Chapter 123 and 122 are authorized by 183 D – which is the wildlife rules – but we also have to comply with things like 183 Wildlife, 195 NARS... 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 JC: Correct. JM: Chapter 134 a lot in there with the firearms rules and so my point being if we’re going to tear it up and start all over there are a lot of Hawaii Revised Statutes that may be affected and there’s a lot of crisscrossing, I mean, even 207, right, reckless endangered – we have to be aware of those rules when we make our rules. And so to tear up and start over, personally, I don’t see that being finished in my lifetime. I’m not against it per se, if that’s what the council wants to do that’s what we do – we go forward and we try to do that. The other extreme is rules light which perhaps we go in – you know, the last one took what 7 or 8 years? Perhaps we go into something if we want something sooner – quicker, you know, our Aquatics – they go into one section of their rules and they change those rules and they get it done, I’m told, in like 6 to 8 months. We’ve had some of our other rules changed – sanctuaries took quite a while – but the introduced birds was a couple of years? So say you go into like for your personal stuff we’d go into conditions and restrictions – we’d go into that section of Chapter 122 and 123 and we try to stick to that and we change that and we focus on that and get those things changed – there’s still a problem there because those are related to the other sections, but, something like that I foresee being in it 30 years and going through five or six of the game rule changes and any other changes – I think that could be a lot faster – but if we’re going to try to tweak everything we can expect a long, long drawn out process. But I look forward to it. JC: And I’d like to add to the record... DUH: Can you please state your name for the record? JM: I’m sorry. Joey Mello, I’m the Wildlife Manager for Forestry and Wildlife in East Hawaii. DUH: Thank you. JC: From my part, I think the best way to start would be for you folks to put together a list of your priorities – a prioritized list – so that we will know what’s most important to you to address and like Joey was saying, maybe focus on one area and we’ll try to push things through quicker. There’s also many rules pertaining to Sunshine Laws and public hearings and so just be aware that those things do take time and the more complicated and broad ranging the changes are the more time it will take. TL: There are things that we have been thinking about. JM: Most of the little things, for instance, you and I have talked about over the last twenty years would probably fall under conditions and restrictions. 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TL: OK. Conditions and restrictions – we could have something for you within a month and that would give them then time to be distributed to the state commission. JC: I think it’s very possible and that’s a great strategy to get started – get something together – get it to Jon and to Ryan – I think when the commissioners do come together in August they’ll be bringing forth their priorities of people that they spoke with and if those are the priorities chosen then we can plunge right in and get those working – I know Shaya is very interested in working on those and has been talking to me about the process of getting started in its rule changes as well, so... It’s time to do it. The time is right. ll. State Game Management Advisory Commission implementation and processes. Discussion on how we work together? DY: What I just heard Jim say – was you’re sort of setting up this communication thing that you want us to talk to the state game commission members from this island and let them know – is that right? JC: Yeah. That’s probably the best – what I envision with the state – with communication with the admin – always welcome to contact me directly – that’s fine – but I see your first and most direct avenues towards that is either through the districts or through the state commissioners and they can - just the official line of communication is better, but... TL: In my opinion, the reason why we have a state game commission is to facilitate things like this. We are on the same table and it working together to facilitate things quickly. Let’s shoot for like in December TN: If this dates back since 2007 all the way up to 2015 – what has this DOFAW group done so far and if anything at all has happened – and I’d like to see it done before December because if we have to go through legislation – I’d like it be prepared for the next legislation process - so I think a October date and one November date would be wise. ‘Cause if there should be any drastic changes to the rules we’d like to push it through this upcoming legislation session. They’ve had all these years to work on it – I’m so confused at the timeline that has passed and nothing’s been done by this department – it baffles my mind that none of this has been worked on – even with previous community input – understandable that the equipment may have changed – they’ve been updated and all of that is material – but the written rules itself wouldn’t you have something already drafted if this has been ongoing since 2007 – your department, your administration, your staff help might have done something 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 prior to you being there or while you’re being there – I’m not understanding the process of your department as to game rules update that has been on your desk, so, brief me as to what you folks work on besides all the other stuff and you didn’t have time for this game rules to be worked on. Thank you. JM: OK. For clarification the game rules changes that started in 2007 were completed in 2015 – so the rules that we are abiding by now – Chapter 122 and 123 were completed. So what we’re talking about is brand new effort at changing rules – revising the rules – and then another case in point the – rule changes only need to be approved by the board, correct? It’s if we’re changing rules that are violating the authority of Hawaii Revised Statutes that’s when we have to decide if we’re going in and try and change a statute by making legislative changes and that gets very cumbersome and long term. TN: So for clarification – if we just changing updated weaponry and not changing statutes then the board approves of it – is that what I’m hearing? JM: Correct. After public hearings... TN: Right. So then, if it becomes a statute – a law change – then that takes legislation? I’ll give a deadline either October or November so if we do come across any law changing – statute changing – that we do it in this upcoming legislation. TL: OK. Thank you. Other than the 1200 foot pounds do you see anything else that would require... JM: Ah, not the stuff that we normally talk about and I don’t think the 1200 foot pounds – is that in 183 D? TN: Tom, are you needing a motion for this? TL: That’s what we’re discussing right now – whether we need a motion for this or not. I would move along without a motion – but I have Mr. Kamelamela here who may suggest otherwise. JK: What you’re talking about is really not on the agenda to do right now. But it’s something that can be done later on. TL: OK. Well we could do this just through our government affairs committee? This is one of the issues that we have – is the timeline in getting these things done – we’ve waited ten years for this and we have a willing participant here sitting at the desk here – we would like to move forward with this – we know what we want for the most part – know what we want to have done already. 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 JK: I would recommend - you take this into your committee and then bring it back next time. After the committee works on it, make a report. TN: It is on the agenda – it’s under game rules. JK: No because it’s not under order of business – this is just a presentation. They’re here to do a presentation only – so since you have a committee - just work it through the committee then the committee will report back at the next meeting what was done. TL: Anything else to add to help facilitate this in a quick and timely manner. Does December look reasonable? JC: I think we’ve got a lot of stars aligned right now and I think we can do this. TL: OK. I appreciate. Anyone else have anything for DOFAW? JM: Yeah, the numbers are going down. The harvest is going down and the interests – just anecdotally slightly waning and we also have a more difficult access because we still are trying to rework the access with Department of Hawaiian Homelands and so now it’s a hunt – it was a Hollywood hunt almost and now it’s a real hunt. We are attempting to extend it one more time to see if we can’t get the people in there to get the resource out. TL: Do you think that you’ll be able to do this for another six months, you think? JM: Not sure... If I had to guess – we’re leaning that way but we’re waiting for an answer from our administration. TL: We’ve heard a lot about it and I appreciate the effort that you folks put into this. 6. ORDER OF BUSINESS A. OLD BUSINESS 1. County of Hawaii Shooting Range i. Update on Resolution TL: Update on the shooting range. I’ve been trying to find out when exactly that resolution is going to be. We have a resolution before the county council. It’s being introduced by Councilman Tim Richards from District 9 and from Susan Lee Loy, D3. I don’t know when it’s gonna be introduced – when they took it from us and had suggested that they were going to introduce it to the county council it was an eight week out from that. We have about three weeks to go before the eight weeks is up and I don’t have confirmation on that so I don’t really have anything to say as to where that resolution is but we are trying to 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 follow-up. As soon as we do we’ll try and post what we can so we can get the public involved because I think the public is going to want to be a part of that resolution hearing to have their input. Along that light, we’ve also talked to various other groups and organizations for to support the Big Island Labor Alliance. We were invited to discuss the shooting range with them. We are looking for support and we’re looking for support from anybody who wanted to give us support there – and on site selection. ii. Site Selection – Commissioner Jim O’Keefe JO: I don’t have a formal report – we’ve had several meetings with a number of the stakeholders – we had one at the DLNR offices with – we had Pohakuloa’s Garrison Commander Lt. Col. Marquez and his Sgt. Major and we had Cindy Evans – Representative Evans – from Kona. A number of folks from the state legislature – Cindy Evans from the legislature, county council, mayor and governor’s representatives there – a few others – a number of the shooting sports communities – DLNR’s new DOCARE Chief – Robert Farrell – had expressed some confidence that we could work through getting some changes to be able to use some of the facilities that have been historically used for shooting by the public and everybody’s pretty familiar with 16 mile - some of the other sites around the island – Manuka... And we’ve been looking at those as a possibility and one of the challenges of finding any site is always – can it be done safely, can it be done with community support and especially with neighbors’ support – is it environmentally safe – we’ve had subsequent meetings at DLNR. Joey and I and several others looked at some of the maps for the sites with overlays of endangered plant species, rainfall – things like that – and there may be something there that we can work through to do perhaps a small pop-up range in a fairly short time but a lot of investigation needs to go into that. I’ve also been contacted by Stanley Mendez . And he mentioned that there’s some county property up above Kaohe – Paauilo side that may be possible. I was up there today taking a look around and taking a look at it on Google Earth to see, you know, we have quite a number of houses – not too far away – may present some challenges but we need to find out more about it to see if that’s a possibility cause county does have some properties and if we have the county’s support on these kind of things that may be another alternative. My goal is to have more ranges, not just one. We have a county shotgun range here and when we were talking earlier about the 4-H and the opportunities for kids and the shooting sports – we already have started a shooting sports program for junior high, high school, and college age students – the scholastic shooting clays program – we actually have one team – we’re looking to build more teams that we can use the county range for shot and sports. One of the things that is really good about the shooting sports and youth is it provides not just discipline and focus – it also provides opportunities for scholarships. 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 There are several people who have enjoyed college scholarships based on air riflery so we know those are good reasons to have these but the site selection process is going to be – it’s going to take a little while and again if we can find quick places to set-up so we can do that in a short order – do it safely, environmentally soundly, you know, friendly with the neighbors and accessible to the shooting public - all the better, so... TL: Any questions? Anybody? Have you heard back anything Joey or Steve have, have, from that meeting that we had – has there been any feedback yet to you folks? SB: Steve Bergfeld with Forestry and Wildlife. I haven’t heard any feedback from either Mr. Farrell or Kekoa yet. WJC: Can you tell me what kind of an area we need? You know, you’re saying there’s some houses – like in that Paauilo area that’s nearby and, I mean, is it like miles of area around? JO: I can tell you a little bit about what happened to us at Hakalau. When C. Brewer sold some of the neighboring 50 acre lots and they were about a mile away from the Big Island Gun Club’s Range – formerly at Hakalau – a prospective buyer contacted us – said they heard there was a range there – a realtor had to disclose that it was within 2 miles or so – so they asked when we were going to be shooting and we told them we had a rifle match coming Sunday so realtor and the prospective buyer went to the property there – looking at – and bought the property. So we assumed everything was fine. Well, immediately upon closing we started getting calls from the county council, from the police department, from the corp counsel’s office – from the state health department, from various legislators and councilors – the buyer had contacted virtually everybody and anybody that could help get our range shut down – knew there was a range nearby – knew that it made noise – it was actually present when we had a high power rifle match on a Sunday which is fairly loud – and went ahead and bought it and then immediately turned around, so, it’s not a matter of safety so much – it’s a matter of will all the neighbors accept it and not just the current neighbors but the ones that come in and – such as folks who buy less expensive property by the airport and then complain about the noise – so those are considerations we have to take a look at. Can we abate the noise enough to satisfy them? WJC: So when, when do you draw the line and say enough is enough. If you bought the place. JO: Actually, in the case of the Big Island Gun Club the C. Brewer – who was our landlord for the princely sum of $150.00 dollars a year for 50 acres – they defended us. They actually said, no, we support them, they’re great tenants – 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 they take care of the property – they guard against poachers and things like – they had a lot of koa up there – they didn’t want it getting logged illegally – they made sure that – they protected us until they sold the whole 550 acres out from all of the tenants on the property – when they basically closed up shop and left the island, so... Yeah, I’m quite willing to defend, you know, against noise ‘cause there are ways to do that – but that’s a fight you have to be ready for when you put a range in and it’s easier if you have neighbors that are OK with it up front. WJC: But, obviously, we can’t please everybody. JO: No. But it’s the same fight we had at Puuanahulu. And we had three sound tests that proved that noise was not going to be an issue – we would need to make one change in the direction of fire on one of the shotgun ranges and we would stay below the lowest noise threshold in the quietest place in the Waikoloa community – still they raised holy heck over there at the state legislature to try to keep us from getting funding for the EIS – so and that’s where we are with that. TL: Where’s the bill... WJC: Who is “they?” JO: Waikoloa Resort Association and the Hawaii Tourism Authority – one of the leaders of that was a Hilton executive that lives near Koko Head Range and he was adamant in his opposition and he got a lot of the vendors for the island – some of the unions for the island to sign the petition to try to prevent us from going in – and that was part of the political capital they used to stall our efforts there, so... TL: There was a bill – last year that was in front of the state legislature to preclude – if there was a gun range there – it couldn’t be shut down for noise later on. Do you know what happened to that bill? JO: It didn’t go anywhere. I don’t know what committee it died in – if it got to a committee – the committee chairs are all powerful in the state legislature so if the chair is not in favor of it, it probably won’t see the light of day, so, but I don’t know what specific committee? TL: We’ve run into that, thankfully Representative Onishi was able to make it happen to get our commission going. JO: Our funding bill actually got through the House – it went through several committee hearings. We had some very good support from our island legislators to get it there – it got crossed over into the senate and went to committee and died a silent death there. 18 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 WJC: I understand, that was the state, I mean, we were looking at the state for that funding. JO: Yes, it was for some funding for an EIS. WJC: For funding for the properties and everything – so here we’re talking about county lands, right? Basically who do we need to get the support from – just county council and the mayor? JO: If it’s county property – yes. I think a lot of the land issues – is the first thing we’d want to talk to Corp Counsel and find out what the status of the land is before we go too far with it. Various properties have various restrictions on them – so we’d want to make sure that we’re not chasing something that’s not going to work and then if that looks pursuable, then to go to the county council and see if we can’t get a memorandum of understanding or some form of legal transfer to allow us to do something on that property. Or if the county wants to finance and run it under one of its departments – that would be another way to do it. Just as parks and recs operates the Hilo Trap and Skeet Range - would be another avenue. WJC: Right, from what I understand there’s got to be a way to have a county facility somewhere without the neighbors being able to shut it down that easily, right? JO: As long as they can afford legal representation... They can tie it up for a while, you know, and we might win but that’s always the challenge, you know, with anything that is somewhat controversial and certainly gun ranges are controversial. WJC: I understand that and that’s my point it’s. I guess, we gotta see Corp Counsel or whoever it is that knows what these laws and rules are but if it’s never going to happen why waste our time – let’s look at some other avenue, right? I mean, if we’re not going to have support from the county to back us up on this thing why even bother? JO: I don’t know if we’re not going to have support – I’m hopeful that we will have support on this. WJC: Yeah, but, you know, same with the state. 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 We never have much support with the state with Puuanahulu, obviously, because it was a small handful of people can turn around something that’s very much needed here – so easily. JO: To be fair, DLNR was instrumental in getting that piece of property... WJC: I understand that but the legislators are the people we need to get support from. NP: I think there’s reason to hope that when the resolution comes before the county council that they might brainstorm about locations and that would be a better place for it to come from – so when the resolution comes before the county council, yeah, we should all really give them our support - go testify and maybe they’ll brainstorm and... TL: Yes, and may wield a lot more authority in some of these issues than maybe the state did. JO: Well, on the other islands it’s the counties that run the ranges. TS: Would the county require an EIS to do something like this? WJC: The question was – from Tony – if the county is going to require an EIS also for a gun range. TL: I’m almost certain... WJC: I would imagine... I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying to give up but I’m trying to be realistic on this whole deal. If we’re not going to have the chance of a snowball in Hilo Town why even bother? We need to find a way to do it, right? I mean am I totally off? I mean, I think first before we even find a site we need to figure out if this is even something that’s gonna be able to be feasible and be supported and when push comes to shove are we going to have support, are we going to have the people in the county that’s gonna say to these people who are whining about noise and stupid stuff like that – to just go back home. I mean, there comes a point when enough is enough, right? I mean, you understand that, right? JO: I’ve been fighting this fight. WJC: I’m not arguing with you, I’m just trying to brainstorm this thing on how do we get past this? I know where you’re talking about in Paauilo and there’s miles in between any houses and if we’re looking at something like that as potentially having issues – I cannot see any place else on this island that has as much space around 20 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 JO: I was talking with Stanley. I was saying one of the things you do is you start by – if you identify a neighborhood – an area that you think is good the first thing you do is you go and talk to the neighbors and see what their feeling is. If it’s something you’ll find a lot of folks around here support the shooting sports – the buyer that tried to chase us out of Hakalau went and tried to get a community association to stop hunting, ATVs, any kind of noise generating stuff and basically they told that buyer to go jump in a lake. So there are a lot of folks that were very supportive of what we did but were not supportive of that so – but it can take one just to bring things up. But I would go and talk to the neighbors – if there’s something that looks very promising – say this is what we’re considering and these are the kind of things we do to minimize the noise impacts – you know these are the kind of hours we’re going to operate an see if we’d have support. TL: There’s a number of steps to go through. Why don’t you share those steps with us here? In order to have an understanding of what we need to do as far as moving forward with a gun range, you started touching on it - talking to the neighbors – community support and water and... JO: Certainly. Noise isn’t the only issue that has to be addressed. Water, if there’s water on the property – running water – or a steep hillside that could cause a lot of runoff then you’ve got an issue that you have to have a very good lead management plan – you have to have that anywhere but it becomes more difficult to do in those kinds of environments because the EPA is now involved in that, you know, if you have runoff into streams you’ve created a situation – noise is certainly one of them – safety, suitable backstops, building up berms. At Puuanahulu, we dealt with – we did an EA – an environmental assessment and we had hydrologists, we had people that came in and studied the wind patterns so they could predict what would be carried where sound and dust from construction – things like that – a cultural specialist came in and took a look at the property to see that we weren’t going to be impacting any culturally sensitive sites. Fortunately, it was a large, fairly recent lava flow so there was little to worry about and the safety issues and, of course, the safety’s probably the easiest thing to deal with because it’s something that all gun ranges have to do and there’s a lot of good knowledge and standards to work from so – those are the main things that we have to deal with, of course, property if it’s a government, a state, a county that you can get to provide it for public use at no or a nominal fee – that’s great. Sometimes you have to do it on private property – that may be the next thing we have to take a look at if there’s not a county or state parcel that’s suitable for it so that may be and sometimes you can get donations for that. A lot of ranges around the country are founded on donated lands so... 21 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TL: Those steps are required pretty much on any gun range – is that correct? JO: Yes. TL: We are waiting for council to inform us when the resolution will be heard. I would like to get as many people from the community to support our efforts. th 2. Update of USFWS meeting of June 19, 2017, with GMAC and State Commission member present TL: We (Nani, Ike and myself) had a meeting with – Ryan Kohatsu,Member, State Commission, Michelle Bogardus and Domingo Cravalho from US Fish and Wildlife Service. The purpose of the meeting was to open up communications between the hunting community and the US Fish and Wildlife Service in order to better facilitate our activities with them and find out when we can get support with them – to find out a little bit more about what the Fish and Wildlife Service – what their thoughts were about some of the programs that we’re working on and we kind of got off into two different discussions and topics there. Nani please share your thoughts with us – what you gained from that? NP: Most of all it was to establish communication – good relationships and I think we definitely did that – it was really nice – they flew in and just to have lunch with us, you know, it was full of pleasantries – I didn’t say what I really wanted to say but they were very nice and cooperative. They gave us their phone numbers – personal numbers to call them for any questions and continue a close relationship with them – so I would say that was the main thing we got out of it which was good. TL: Ike you had some poignant comments for the Fish and Wildlife Service while we were there – you want to share some of those? DY: No. TL: They are well aware of our frustration with the Fish and Wildlife Service and they say that they want to work with us in trying to overcome some of those frustrations. I was appreciative of the effort they made to meet with us. Ryan would you like to contribute anything from the meeting? RK: There was one discussion - I think they make – do not quote me on this – they’re gonna make their own public release on it and all but there was a talk about their programmatic EIS and potentially withdrawing from the programmatic EIS for their rodenticide project but not totally withdrawing from the project itself, just the programmatic EIS side of it so – I think that’s the only thing – but don’t take my word for it. 22 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TL: On that programmatic EIS Joey or Jim do you guys have anything you can add on that – do you know anything about that? TN: What are you referring to? TL: The rodenticide project up at Pohakuloa. Since DOFAW is here who are also involved in that they may have some information for us. TN: OK. But Tom – clarification – at this meeting it was just you and Nani? Was there another commission member? TL: There was myself, Nani, and Ike was with us and Ryan Kohatsu from the state was with us. JK: Can I ask something here because Teresa had asked about the programmatic EIS discussed at this meeting you guys had... OK. Just to make it clear. JC: I can just confirm that Fish and Wildlife Service are reviewing exactly how they’re gonna go forward with the programmatic EIS and it looks like they’re gonna not do a programmatic EIS per se – but instead publish what has been done as just the tool blocks of potential ways of dealing with these different small pests and predators. TN: I’m sorry – please explain that – that sounded too technical for me. JC: Well the programmatic EIS is a technical document that describes different strategies and tools that you can use to get rid of small rodents and mongoose. And it just goes through all the options you have and some of the plus benefits and some of the pros and cons of using these different techniques and what you need to – what situations are better for certain techniques, I mean, it’s just a technical document that explains that. And that’s what they’re gonna use it as rather than trying to push forward as a full programmatic EIS. Sounds like they are gonna do that and they’ll make their own announcement when they’re ready. TL: Thank you. 23 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 B. NEW BUSINESS 1. Commission Members Get Together TL: We have been talking about a get-together for the commission and something we’ve been talking about now – Ike brought it up two years ago – it’s something that I feel is important for us to get to know each other – not very many of us know Teresa or I have not met Kalei, for example, either so I don’t even know what he looks like – something that I would think is important for us if we’re going to be working together we should know each other. Jonathan Bartsch – I don’t think anybody here has had an opportunity to meet with him – Teresa is the only one of this current group that knows him so – anyway – I’ve sent out an email to you folks – the only one whose actually responded to me has been Teresa and Ike – well, Nani, I guess, has been a big part of that too, but – your thoughts? DY: I would recommend that we hold the meeting in Kona and that as many of us that can go there go there and meet the guys there because from what I got out of your email – it might be difficult to go to a restaurant to have this gathering so... Just plan for the next meeting or a subsequent meeting to be in Kona and if anybody wants to be here we’d have the video. TL: I’m all for that – not for July but for August... Ike is suggesting that we hold our next meeting in Kona – well, actually, not our next meeting but I’m suggesting that we hold our August meeting in Kona. TN: And this is not a get together – it’s just a regular meeting. DY: If we don’t talk about agenda items we can get together – we can have a lunch – I’m willing to go pay my own... ....because I think it’s important enough for us to sit down and meet one another and talk story TL: I completely agree. DY: And if the public wants to come and pay their own way – fine – but, you know, I’ve been on this commission now for – I don’t know – almost five years – I have yet to meet everybody. TK: Right. DY: You know, I’m always open to go almost anywhere to meet people so I have nothing to hide. 24 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 TL: I’m for having our August meeting in Kona – is that OK with you? OK. And Willie-Joe and I have been gone to Kona on several occasions already for meetings over there. But I’m also for a get-together. I think we should have our August meeting in Kona and I’ll find a date for that – we’ll do that – but a get-together is something I think we ought to do and I think in Kona would be a good place to do that. TN: Clarification. This is Teresa. Are you talking about a get-together before the meeting and meet each other kind of thing and then have our meeting? TL: On two separate days. th TN: Oh, two separate days not... For example, we get together on the 14 and we th meet on the 15 on those type of days back-to-back? TL: Well, that wasn’t exactly – I hadn’t really put it into context like that but no, I was thinking like probably sometime next month getting together and then in August we have our Kona meeting. TN: I’m supporting whatever decision the rest of the members decide which is easier for them to make time for whatever dates they set up. I’m in support of that. TL: OK. TN: Tom, I’m sorry, I mean, since nobody spoke – what about just meeting in any of the parks and recreation gym area – Honokaa, Paauilo, Kailua Gym – as our venue. I mean, can we go through the parks and recreation? TL: I’m open to anywhere actually. A beach park – the Old Airport – I don’t care – I just would like – I think it’s important - I agree with Ike 100% on this – our commission members are working together and we ought to have an understanding of who each of us are and I think it’s important and, but these are things that we can work out – I am going to send out emails to all of you probably tomorrow or the next day. Let’s actually work on this and please get back to me and we’ll get this information over to Donna and I’d like to move OK. It is 8:30p and I think that we should close this meeting. We have future agenda items – we have a game management plan – let’s deal with that after you’ve had a chance to look at this game management plan – improving communications with hunters – we’re working with Donna right now to get each of the commissioners’ names on the county website underneath the Mayor – contact information – it’s been suggested that the contact information be housed with Donna or the Kona Office so if people want to know or get in contact with an individual commissioner in a particular district they can leave word with the mayor’s office in Kona and that district commissioner is 25 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – June 27, 2017 expected to respond to that request. Donna’s helping me with that and hopefully we’ll have this put together by the – I think she was going to talk to Joe. Dwayne Yoshina made a motion to defer the Future Agenda Items to the next meeting. Seconded by Willie-Joe Camara. Motion carried by voice vote. 8. NEXT MEETING SCHEULED: July 25, 2017 Meeting Adjourned at 8:40pm Respectfully submitted by: Donna Urban-Higuchi, Secretary ATTEST: Thomas H. Lodge 26