HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-11-02 Hearing Transcript - PD Initiated Pre-Existing Lot DeterminationWINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HEARING TRANSCRIPT
NOVEMBER 2, 2017
A regularly advertised hearing on the Planning Director Initiated Amendment to Chapter 23
(Subdivision Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2016 Edition, as amended) Article 11,
Section 23-118 was called to order at 10:14 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Aupuni Center
Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman Gregory Henkel presiding.
COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Joe Clarkson, Donn Dela Cruz, Gregory Henkel, Donald Ikeda,
and Myles Miyasato.
ABSENT & EXCUSED: Thomas Raffipiy.
ALSO PRESENT: Michael Yee (Planning Director), Malia Ho Hall (Deputy Corporation
Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Jeff Darrow (Planning Program Manager),
Maija Jackson (Planner), Christian Kay (Planner), Shancy Watanabe (Planner), and Sarah
Hata-Finley (Commission Secretary).
And 3 members from the public in attendance.
INITIATOR: PLANNING DIRECTOR
An ordinance amending Chapter 23 (Subdivision Code), Hawaii County Code 1983 (2016
Edition, as amended), Article 11, Section 23-118 relating to criteria to determine a pre-existing
lot. The purpose of this ordinance is to add a new criteria to determine a pre-existing lot.
HENKEL: If everybody's good to go, we'll move on to Agenda Item No. 3 which is initiated by
the Planning Director on ordinance amending Chapter 23, Subdivision Code of Hawaii County
Code 1983 (2016 Edition, as amended), Article 11, Section 23-118 relating to criteria to
determine a pre-existing lot, and Maija will present.
JACKSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, everyone. The next item on the agenda is a
Planning Director initiated amendment to the Subdivision Code, specifically to Article 11,
Section 23-118 relating to the criteria to determine a pre-existing lot.
The purpose of the bill is to add a new criteria to determine a pre-existing lot. Specifically, the
new criteria will recognize as a pre-existing lot those lots that were never approved by the
County through subdivision but where documentation as a legal lot of record can be provided.
So, the Director's proposing this new Criteria C which states, "The lot was created through
evidence of a properly prepared deed and/or subdivision plat for fee simple ownership of such lot
to a grantee other than the grantor or a grantor's trust which deed was recorded at the State of
Hawaii Bureau of Conveyances or with the Registrar of the Land Court prior to May 1, 1999,
and was subsequently depicted on a County of Hawaii Tax Map, was issued a tax map parcel
number therefor, and was individually assessed for real property taxation purposes."
EXHIBIT C
And, so I have an example of two cases of many where this has occurred. This one is in East
Hawaii, the Orchid Isle Estates Subdivision which was created in 1961 by submitting a file plan
to the State Bureau of Conveyances. This file plan was never submitted to the Planning
Department for approval.
And, you can see it's a little hard to see, but it's a very large subdivision, and you have a State
surveyor's office that signed the file plan as well as the Bureau of Conveyances signed in 1961
showing that they received the filing. So, these lots in the subdivision were essentially created
by this file plan being submitted to the Bureau of Conveyances.
Another example is in West Hawaii. This is the Kaloko II Subdivision mauka of Kaloko Drive,
and this subdivision was created in 1989 by the same method. Basically, the surveyor created
the subdivision and certified the subdivision and then submitted it to the Bureau of Conveyances
to be filed and recorded.
So, the new language would just simply recognize all of those lots that were created without the
Planning Department approval of the plat, and the Director is recommending that you send a
favorable recommendation to the County Council for this amendment.
I would be happy to answer any questions. We also have Susan Gagorik and Jonathan Holmes
from our Administrative Permits Division. They can answer any questions as well. They
process all the subdivisions in the Planning Department.
HENKEL: Any questions?
CLARKSON: Yeah, I can see how a 1961 subdivision might have slipped through the cracks of
the County Planning ordinances, but 1989? I mean, could this, could that happen again where
somebody just submits a survey to the Bureau of Conveyances and subdivides a parcel without
ever going through a subdivision process?
JACKSON: No, the main reason it happened up till 1999 is because May 1st, 1999, is when the
Planning Department took over tax mapping and so once that occurred, the, the subdivisions
weren't assigned a tax map unless the Planning Department assigned a tax map to it. And, so
obviously, we wouldn't assign it, assign a tax map number unless the County had reviewed and
approved the subdivision. And, so that's why up to that date, those file plans had been submitted
to Bureau of Conveyance[s].
HENKEL: I have a question.
JACKSON: Did that answer your question, Commissioner Clarkson?
CLARKSON: Well, not really.
JACKSON: Okay.
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CLARKSON: I mean I did a subdivision along with another family member in 1988, and we
had to go through the Planning Department.
JACKSON: Okay.
CLARKSON: We didn't just make a survey and record it.
JACKSON: Okay. Maybe Susan or Jonathan could respond to your direct inquiry much better
than I could.
GAGORIK: Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the Commission. My name is Susan
Gagorik, and I'm the manager for the subdivision, administrative permits and subdivisions is
under our section.
So, what happens, what has been happening lately is that we get requests from applicants saying
can you tell me whether this lot is a record, you know, a legitimate record. And, normally, this
happens before someone may decide to sell their property, and when they sell their property,
they get a title search. So, the title search company will look through all the records for that
particular property, and they'll find that there is no subdivision number for that property because
when we approve a subdivision with our department, we issue a number, a final number. And,
that final number becomes the record for a legitimate property. So, if it doesn't show up in that
search process, that's how we find out about something. And, so through our process, we would
then document in a letter back to the applicant whether we had a record or not. And, so
normally, that's usually when you find out that the process has not been followed.
I don't know if that answers your question or if it's, you know, still a little vague, but we're the
central depository, and before, it was a surveyor's office, and they went through the process and
nobody, you know, they didn't check with us until we took over the mapping process in 1999.
So, then the process then comes to us all the time.
HENKEL: I'm sufficiently confused. Orchid Isle Estates, is that, that's an established
subdivision or is it like a, one that was proposed in '61 and.
GAGORIK: Maija mentioned it never came through the Planning Department although there
was someone that created the file plan, and they filed it with the surveyor's office, the State's
surveyor's office at that time, and then it went to the Bureau for recordation.
HENKEL: Have they been paying taxes on these lots?
GAGORIK: Yes. So, this is a situation where you see all the conditions that are listed now that
are proposed? These individuals have a tmk. They have been paying taxes. Probably the lots
have been sold multiple times to different people and it's been recorded again. So, the
individuals that now own the lots say, you know, am I not a lot of record? Right? All of these
things have happened over the years. So, we are saying, we would like to acknowledge the fact
that these property owners have paid taxes. They were under the assumption they were a
legitimate lot of record, and they sold properties, you know, so things have occurred that make it
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seem like it is a lot of record through the Planning Department even though we don't have a
number to say that it was a legitimate subdivision.
HENKEL: Okay, I'm a little more understanding now. I mean, I was wondering if there's such
a place as Orchid Isle Subdivision. That's up near Volcano, I think, right? Orchid Isle
Subdivision.
GAGORIK: It's further, yeah, going up
HENKEL: —And they've been paying taxes. There is some development even though it's
probably substandard.
GAGORIK: Yeah, right.
HENKEL: Like the other 1960's subdivisions. And they have a road maintenance corporation
probably?
GAGORIK: Probably, most likely they'll have a road maintenance. And in the last maybe six
months or so, we've had multiple requests from individuals where they will ask us can you
determine if this is a lot of record, and when we go through all our files, we don't have any
legitimate subdivision and we see that these individuals have—it's been owned by multiple
people, there was a building permit taken out on this, they've been paying taxes all these years,
and we actually had to say no, you're not a lot of record! And, it hurts us, too, as a planning
department, but we have to follow the law, and that's why we wanted to add these conditions so
that it would recognize those lots that are under these circumstances.
CLARKSON: Well, what is a lot of record then? I mean, obviously, the Tax Department
thought they were a lot. The Building Department thought they were a lot. The State thinks that
they're a lot, the Bureau of Conveyances. What, what do theyso, the only difference between
a lot and a lot of record is one that has a number assigned by the Planning Department?
GAGORIK: And, there are other situations that are explained in this section of the Code also.
Prior to the Subdivision Code becoming approved as through ordinance, there was a Traffic
Commission way back in the forties that was under the Department of Public Works, and they
approved subdivisions. So, there are some records with that, that we can go back to, but we
don't have a complete record which is why we included that section to recognize that there may
be some lots that were created before the Subdivision Code. But people have to come to us with
background information to support their request that it would be a lot of record, and they usually
have some deeds and things of that sort to recognize that the property had existed.
CLARKSON: One more question. Then, why, why is it bad if you can sell it, you're getting
taxed on it and all that other stuff, why do people need it to be a lot of record? Why do they
want that title added to their property?
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GAGORIK: Because it's the legitimate process for recognizing your lot. It's part of the
ordinance process today that if you have a property, and you would like to subdivide it into two
lots, you'll need to legally go through a subdivision process.
HENKEL: Any more questions? Thank you, Susan.
GAGORIK: Okay.
YEE: Quick comment. I just want to compliment the Planning Department. This was a multi -
team effort from Susan, Jonathan, Daryn to Jeff's team in putting forth this recommendation and
change. They could have certainly continued to do things for decades like they have been been
doing but finally found the, you know, effort to go forth with this, so I appreciate the effort.
CLARKSON: Are you going to go back and assign numbers to all of these or just on a case-by-
case basis as requested?
GAGORIK: It is on a case-by-case basis based, especially the individual requests that come in
by letters today when an individual comes in and says can you tell me whether I have a lot of
record. We will go through that research process, determine whether they fit the criteria that we
have today, and then, then the individual will then need to seek an attorney to help them in
drawing up, you know, the legal document to say that it is a legal lot of record.
HENKEL: Thank you. I have no one signed up to testify on this agenda item. Is there anyone
out here that would like to testify? If not, I would look for a motion to close public testimony.
MIYASATO: I make a motion to close public testimony.
IKEDA: Second.
HENKEL: It's been moved and seconded to close public testimony. All in favor say, "aye?"
COMMISSIONERS: Aye.
HENKEL: What—did I say all opposed?
HALL: Any opposed?
HENKEL: All in favor, any opposed? Okay, thank you. I'm getting old. Then, a motion to
action.
MIYASATO: Chair, I make a motion. I move that a favorable recommendation be forwarded to
the County Council on the ordinance amending Chapter 23, Article 11, Section 23-118, adding
criteria for determining a pre-existing lot of record, be approved based on the Planning
Director's recommendations and findings which shall be adopted.
IKEDA: Second.
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HENKEL: It's been moved by Commissioner Miyasato; seconded by Commissioner Ikeda.
Could we vote, please, Maija?
JACKSON: Yes. Commissioner Miyasato?
MIYASATO: Aye.
JACKSON: Commissioner Ikeda?
IKEDA: Aye.
JACKSON: Commissioner Clarkson?
CLARKSON: Aye.
JACKSON: Commissioner Dela Cruz?
DELA CRUZ: Aye.
JACKSON: And, Chair Henkel.
HENKEL: Aye.
JACKSON: Okay, the motion carries.
The discussion ended at 10:29 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary
Windward Planning Commission
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