HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-12-21 Salary Commision MinutesPage 1
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
SALARY COMMISSION MEETING
Held at the Hawaii County Building, Puna Conference
Room, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, 96720, commencing
at 10:00 a.m., on December 21, 2017.
REPORTED BY: TERI HOSKINS, CSR #452
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 CHAIRMAN:
2
HUGH Y. ONO, P. E.
3
VICE -CHAIR:
4
FLORENCE K. IKEDA
5
6
BOARD MEMBERS:
7
THOMAS E. FRATINARDO
8
GEORGE W. CAMPBELL
9
JAMES W. HIGGINS
10
MILTON PAVAO, P. E.
11
HAROLD D. DOW
12
NELSON H. HARANO
13
14
DEPUTY CORPORATION
COUNSEL:
15
AMY SELF, ESQ.
16
17
HUMAN RESOURCES:
18
WILLIAM V. BRILHANTE,
19
EX -OFFICIO MEMBER
20 ALSO PRESENT:
21 JENNY SAKAMOTO
22 MICHELE LAMKIN
23 GLYNIS YAMADA
24
25
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 2
Page 3
1
CHR.
ONO: Okay, call the meeting to
2
order. Call the meeting to order.
3
Why
don't we -- well, first of all, I want to
4
start by saying
Merry Christmas to everybody. 'Tis the
5
season to be jolly.
6
And
why don't we first start by doing roll
7
call. And we can start with you, Thomas.
8
MR.
FRATINARDO: Thomas Fratinardo present.
9
MR.
DOW: Harold Dow present.
10
MS.
IKEDA: Florence Ikeda present.
11
CHR.
ONO: Hugh Ono. I think I'm
12
present.
13
MR.
PAVAO: Milton Pavao here, I think.
14
MR.
HIGGINS: Jim Higgins present.
15
MR.
CAMPBELL: George Campbell present.
16
CHR.
ONO: Okay. Amy, you can --
17
MS.
SELF: Amy Self, Deputy Corporation
18 Counsel.
19 MR. BRILHANTE: William Brilhante, acting HR
20 Director.
21 CHR. ONO: Okay. Yeah, good morning
22 everybody. 'Tis the season to be jolly. This is
23 probably -- hopefully -- going to be the last meeting
24 of the year. Because of Sunshine Law, we can't have
25 another one; announcements would never make it. But in
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 4
1 any case, we have a few testimonies this morning.
2 Nelson Harano is likely on his way, but when
3 he gets here, he gets here.
4 Statements from the public. Okay, it would
5 appear that we have two requests to speak, so before we
6 start, any of the commissioners have any questions at
7 all?
8 Who's that? Mayor. Merry Christmas from
9 the commission.
10 MR. KIM: Thank you, Merry Christmas to
11 everybody for serving.
12 CHR. ONO: Thanks for coming, Mayor.
13 MR. KIM: You bet.
14 CHR. ONO: Would you like to be taken out
15 of order?
16
MR.
KIM:
Whatever suits the council (sic).
17
CHR.
ONO:
Well, you know, it's your
18
schedule.
19
MR.
KIM:
Suits me really good.
20
CHR.
ONO:
We can take him out of order,
21
can't we?
22
MS.
SELF:
Sure.
23
CHR.
ONO:
Would you like to?
24
MR.
KIM:
Yes, Sir.
25
CHR.
ONO:
We can do it now, Harry.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 5
1
MR.
KIM:
Thank you very much.
2
CHR.
ONO:
He's the mayor.
3
MR.
KIM:
First of all, thank you all
4
for -- I know
we pay
you a lot, cup of coffee a day.
5
Pay for that.
ONO:
No, I haven't.
6
MR.
HIGGINS: Thank you, Mayor.
7
MR.
KIM:
Can you hear me okay? Okay,
8
thank you.
But,
anyway, I'm just going to say what I
9
CHR.
ONO:
Audio okay?
10
MR.
KIM:
Every time I look at you, Hugh, I
11
remind myself
how old
I am. I'm just going --
12
CHR.
ONO:
Does he have to press his
13 button?
14
MS.
SELF:
It's on.
15
MR.
KIM:
It's on?
16
CHR.
ONO:
Can we turn it off?
17
MR.
KIM:
You haven't changed.
18
CHR.
ONO:
No, I haven't.
19
MR.
KIM:
I thought age would make you
20
better.
21
But,
anyway, I'm just going to say what I
22
feel about this.
23
CHR.
ONO:
Please do.
24
MR.
KIM:
I think some of you know that --
25 (mic. feedback.)
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 6
1 Sorry.
2 MS. SELF: Wasn't meant to be.
3 MR. KIM: Are these all hints for me to get
4 out of here?
5 MR. CALLAHAN: And Kim has spoken.
6 MR. KIM: When I took this job, again,
7 December 5th, 2017, the budget crisis was well-known.
8 The only thing I did not know, obviously, from the
9 outside in is the details of it as, you know, you guys
10 experienced now. The only way you are going to know it
11 is to be there and look at all the details you need to
12 know. And it's common knowledge now, obviously, that
13 we had some bills to pay.
14 And, as time went on, in a very short time,
15 with the Finance Department keeping -- trying to get
16 information to me as best as I could, the joke was that
17 at first it was only $5 million short for this fiscal
18 year as of June 30th; then it was $10 million; and then
19 it was 15, and it was 20. And, after a while, I told
20 Diane, "I don't want to see you in the office anymore."
21 But that was the reality. And when that information
22 was received, it does not take any high math to realize
23 your anticipated revenues was just not going to be
24 enough to near meet your minimum needs, and the
25 ugliness of tax raises or cuts.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 7
1 I ask you to trust and ask any department of
2 three reviews of cut -- what you had to cut or could
3 cut, until it comes to well, are you going to cut
4 personnel? So, I think almost all contracts were cut.
5 Bill is up there. He was directly involved in the
6 instructions from the mayor's office.
7 I had the unpleasant -- for those of you --
8 not unpleasant, unpleasant, but it's not very
9 comfortable sometimes to notify all unions, because all
10 four unions was going under their collective bargaining
11 at that time. Another negative of timing. Anyway, I
12 think all four unions were notified that the County of
13 Hawaii administration would not support one single
14 percent raise. I made a crack one time in the guys --
15 to the police union, because it was a conference call,
16 and I said, "I retract no raise. I'm asking for minus
17 2 percent," just to impact them very serious that I
18 would not support any raise of the four unions, the
19 police, fire, HGEA, and UPW. And it was done very
20 early of this year. That's how serious I knew it was.
21 And so, it came to the vote element. It's
22 well-known by them, because I told them personally we
23 will not reverse that support. And, as you know, the
24 collective bargaining system is simple: Each county
25 has one vote; the mayor -- governor has four votes, so
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 all you need to have is one vote and it's in. I know
2 that. But it's just to make a point and stick to that
3 point.
4 And, on this, I do not blame anyone in the
5 County -- I'm talking about citizens -- of anger,
6 frustration, to read the higher-ups, so to speak, to
7 get the kind of raise you propose. It matters not who
8 is responsible. Some thinks it's the administration
9 that does this. And I don't blame them for thinking
10 the mayor is responsible for this. But as you know, we
11 stay out of this. It's the first time I've talked to
12 any of you -- members of the commission about this.
13 You know, I thought about what can I come
14 here and say that is meaningful? But the more you
15 inquire about it -- and I'll pick on one, an easy
16 one -- for a long time, I thought of the great
17 inequality of money. I wish I had a magic wand to say,
18 "I'll give these people a raise." And, to me, the ones
19 that need the raise most are those on the lower scale.
20 This morning we had a meeting with regards to
21 what shall our policy be in regards to what Human
22 Resources to make things fair. And Bill was in there,
23 and I told him the same thing, you know. "How much
24 does the low man on the totem pole get paid?" And his
25 answer to me was about 18,000. I wish I had a magic
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 9
1 wand to say, "This is where the money should go," but I
2 don't. I have no authority on my pay or anybody's pay.
3 It is the collective bargaining system and what you do.
4 So with all that, from the unfairness, you
5 ask questions
when was --
of the attorneys who -- if
6 any attorneys
up here --
Bill, I know you're an
7 attorney by education
--
to do something that I
8 consider very
important
for all the people of this
9 island, of the
Corporation
Counsel, to make sure we
10 have wise people up there, good people up there, and
11 hopefully some of them to make this a career, a
12 government attorney as a career, because it takes time
13 to learn of all the things you need to learn. And to
14 learn that those that still serve and left, some of
15 them we did not give them a $1 raise for ten years, I
16 mean, how many of us would have tolerated that? And
17 this is why initially what I was going to come and talk
18 to you about changes as the more and more you think
19
about
it, the consequences of
what you say, and ask of
20
you to
consider, who are just
volunteers.
21 I know we've lost some good attorneys. And
22
those
of
you who have
been
in County government, you
23
know
it
seems easy to
find
good people of expertise and
24
management
skills
on top
of
that
expertise to
take the
25
County job.
It is
not a
40
-hour
-a -week job.
I want
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 10
1 the attorneys to get the pay raise. I was going to
2 tell you to -- is there any way you could consider
3 postponing the raise until July 1st fiscal year?
4 Because that's how we make our budget. And so, this
5 money that I must find to pay for this raise comes from
6 that approved budget. That means it comes from
7 somewhere else. That's why I wanted to make that
8 recommendation. The other thing I was thinking about
9 telling you was can we possibly prorate it?
10 And the truth, after thinking of all that,
11 what have I resolved? Almost nothing. I do believe
12 that the inequity that you are trying to resolve is
13 real. I believe that the major problem of all of that
14 is the collective bargaining system, which I have no
15 control or influence under. And neither do you.
16 You're just trying to make the thing fair. So, what am
17 I telling you? Nothing you don't already know. Maybe
18 trying to make you take the blame instead of me. I
19 thank you for your work. I know that I wish I had the
20 magic wand to make life better for everybody. So do
21 you, but you don't.
22 I will grade this crisis today as the
23 inequity of the distribution of funds for people in
24 this world, this country, and this island. And I thank
25 you for your work. I do believe that the principles of
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
18 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we're going to do
19 something with age for sure.
20 Any questions of the mayor at all? Comments?
21 MR. FRATINARDO: I do. I do. Tom
22 Fratinardo. Sorry, Tom Fratinardo.
23 And I look at the collective bargaining, and
24 I look at the highest-paid middle management personnel
25 in -- managers in collective bargaining. And I think
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 11
1
what you
are trying to do, equity, the work is a good
2
work. I'm
just trying to be crybaby to you on how
3
difficult
it is to know what to say to you and fix the
4
problem,
but postponing it maybe until July 1st,
5
postpone
the fact that that money needs to be found.
6
So it's all I've been -- my recommendations
7
will do.
Doesn't solve the problem. I think the
8
problem is
the collective bargaining system that
9
somewhere
we must address so we don't find ourselves in
10
this kind
of thing that is a good guy/bad guy.
11
So I know I said nothing but, I believe, what
12
I felt inside,
so thank you very much for this, and
13
thank you
for your work, and happy holidays to you.
14
CHR. ONO: Thank you, Mayor.
15
MR. HIGGINS: Yeah.
16
MR. KIM: And I do hope you get better with
17
age.
18 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we're going to do
19 something with age for sure.
20 Any questions of the mayor at all? Comments?
21 MR. FRATINARDO: I do. I do. Tom
22 Fratinardo. Sorry, Tom Fratinardo.
23 And I look at the collective bargaining, and
24 I look at the highest-paid middle management personnel
25 in -- managers in collective bargaining. And I think
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 12
if -- as a salary commission, let's say, the police
chief's pay is $130,000 a year, but that -- let's say
the assistant chief that stays in that position -- and
they don't have to retire at 32 years. That's where
they max out. They don't have to retire at 32 years.
He sticks around for maybe ten more years. So, right
now, they might be making in the 140's, mid 140's. At
what point will that person be making in the low 200's
with the collective bargaining?
So, for me, how do we -- what I want to see
achieved is balance. So, how do we -- how do we find
balance amongst these positions?
MR. KIM: Boy, I wish I had an answer for
you.
A4r TT- rr- A7
TTRT-) TT T TR.
S. Yeah.
I really do.
MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah.
MR. KIM: On that.
Balance based on what? It gets so complex.
And I'm not going to pretend. I don't have the answer
for that.
MR. HIGGINS: Mr. Mayor, thank you for
coming. I wish you had spoken to us before, you know,
two or three or four meetings ago, because I think it's
very valuable input.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 13
1 Looking back, one of the things that you have
2 succinctly talked about was affordability of this whole
3 damn thing. And in our previous meetings, that subject
4 basically never came up. We never really hit on that,
5 on the affordability. We were basically led --
6 honestly believe that the affordability question is not
7 our problem, that this is being determined by
8 collective bargaining and blah, blah, blah.
9 So that's where I'm having a hard time with
10 this, because I'm a fiscal hawk. I'm in your camp on
11
that. And
the only thing I think what we can possibly
12
try to do
is also determine what is
the priority of
13
importance
of jobs in the County?
In other words, one
14
of the job
descriptions is going to
get a major $40,000
15
increase.
And we were trying to be
fair. Again, that
16
word comes
up. So, the problem is,
is that worth the
17
fire chief,
that job? And we were
trying to stay away
18 from us trying to determine, well, who is more
19 important to running this government? So, maybe we need
20 some help on that and whether that's going to really
21 raise eyebrows and people are going to scream because
22 somebody is deemed more important than others.
23 So, anyway, I'm just rambling here. I just
24 wish you had come and talked to us more and so we would
25 have had more of an impact on the affordability of all
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 14
1 of this.
2 MR. KIM: First of all, I apologize for
3 that, not coming. It's a dilemma kind of thing. I
4 promise all commissioners -- as you know, commissioners
5 do minimize the mayor's relationship with the
6 commission to do your work independent; and if I had
7 anything to say that was critical, I would come forth.
8 And I -- I thought it would be more detrimental to come
9 forth then. And I think I was wrong. I know I was
10 wrong.
11 Let's take the raise of one of the positions.
12 Huge raise. As, you know, you thinking, jeez, if we
13 had spread out the raise every year for the past ten
14 years, we wouldn't have this problem today. So you do
15 something that, you know, is very unpopular, and I
16 think every one of you knows that, the consequence of
17 that kind of raise, because that's what people will
18 see, this one lump sum, and not what you are trying to
19 do or what you have talked about, a balance, to make it
20 fair. And that's all you're trying to do. I do know
21 this as an administrator.
22 This is my third time around, believe it or
23 not, of being stupid enough to come back three times.
24 But finding good people -- I don't know most of you
25 personally but, you know, if you all are in management,
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 15
1 finding good people to do this job is not easy. It is
2 the easiest thing in the world as mayor to find people
3 to give them a job. Easiest thing in the world. But
4 there's a difference between that and finding good
5 people to do a job.
6 I think almost every position this term as
7 well as other, people you look at -- and I won't expose
8 any names, but have turned me down, of not being able
9 to leave their present job because of a tremendous pay
10 cut or place of trying to build a business. And I know
11 a lot of the public will think as I say this, "That's
12 bunk," and I don't blame them, because they're the ones
13 that are making 15-, 20-, 30- or less thousand dollars
14 a year, and this looks like wow. But I ask you to
15 trust me on this. I had a hard time finding people to
16 fill jobs. You know that, Mr. Hugh Ono.
17 The requirements of Departments of Public
18 Works, DEM, had minimum requirements of engineer,
19 minimum requirements of administration, of attorneys.
20 Trying to get an attorney who is private practice and
21 tell them, "I'm going to give you 90,000 a year," I
22 think they would choke back laughter if you tell them
23 that. So, you know, pay is important because of
24 lifestyle, survival, providing for. And I know that.
25 I wish I had a simple answer. I don't. I do
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 16
1 know one of the causes that we must address is
2 collective bargaining. It is not about collective
3 bargaining I'm saying I'm against. I'm not against
4 collective bargaining. I said we have to look at all
5 the issues of how it's done, because it is of them
6 addressing a percentage of employees for raises but not
7 the EMs. And so when this goes up and this stays flat,
8 we are in the position you find yourself in, because
9 it's your job to address those people. And because no
10 raises are given for ten years, you want to be fair;
11 you want to balance. You're going to jump it one time.
12 Obviously, everybody is going to think, "Whoa, what the
13 heck are they doing?" The worst part about what I'm
14 saying is I know all this, but I don't know what the
15 answer is.
16 And I'll conclude this with -- I'm not
17 helping anybody by this -- I wish you a Merry
18 Christmas.
19 CHR. ONO: Mayor, just one comment from
20 me. This commission recognized pretty quickly that we
21 were in a serious dilemma here, you know. We're all
22 aware of what the financial challenges are. We're also
23 aware of a situation that has preexisted for much too
24 long. So the challenge is to find that point of
25 balance where we can make it pono, so to speak.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 17
1 In doing so, we also recognize that the first
2 attention needs to be given to the salary inversions
3 which are really, really significant for certain
4 positions. Then the second part, this commission is
5 going to take a look at what is going to happen in the
6 future, because this can't be going on every time
7 there's a change in collective bargaining to -- you
8 know, for us -- if we do a conscientious job on that
9 basis, we'll be meeting every single month for the rest
10 of, you know, your term, not to mention future terms.
11 And so, I think that we're very aware of --
12 and, you know, thank you for coming and sharing and
13 testifying with us today. We appreciate it. And Merry
14 Christmas to you, too.
15 MR. KIM: I would like to say this. I
16 think I have a beautiful team working. And, Bill, if
17 you don't mind -- I'm meeting with Bill on some other
18 subjects, and we've got to project what we're all here
19 for, just doing your job. In this past term -- I mean,
20 this term, there were more than one person that I
21 approached that said "no." There were a couple of them
22 that said "yes," knowing they would take approximately a
23 $20,000 cut in pay. The public should know this.
24 There is a difference when we're giving people a job to
25 take a job and a difference of giving and asking people
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 18
1 to serve this County to do a job. Not one of them that
2 I know bargained with me of pay. That's set aside,
3 black and white. So you appeal to them of the
4 importance of the job, just like we appeal to you to
5 serve on this commission for a coffee, a meeting, if
6 that.
7 MR. FRATINARDO: Mr. Ono, may I say one
8 thing?
9 CHR. ONO: Go ahead.
10 MR. FRATINARDO: We received testimony from
11 the prosecuting attorney's office, and the testimony we
12 got from Ricky Roy Damerville impacted me. So I just
13 wanted my decision -- because I can't meet with you and
14 tell you what I'm using as far as making a decision.
15 And, for him, it's about continuity. What's happening
16 with the prosecuting attorney's office is they're
17 getting deputies in, young deputies fresh out of
18 school, training them, and then within three or four
19 years of being in that position, they're flying the
20 coop to get paid better wage or salaries elsewhere. So,
21 it's about a continuity situation for me.
22 And being a former police officer having to
23 train other officers and actually seeing that, back in
24 the '90s, when police departments were coming into our
25 jurisdiction to recruit from Hawaii County Police
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 19
1 Department, it messes things up. So, we lose that
2 continuity, we lose that expertise, and it affects our
3 public safety in the long run, because if you don't
4 have deputy prosecutors that have trial experience, it
5 affects the way the judicial process works. That was
6 one of my reasons for my decisions with the prosecuting
7 attorney's office.
8 MR. KIM: I'll say this maybe out of -- not
9 a place for it, but I think it ties in with what you're
10 saying.
11 I consider the job of us in government to do
12 everything we can to raise the salaries of the rest of
13 the community. I said that first publicly in 1981,
14 with the biggest danger to our community is the gap
15 between the haves and the have-nots. And all of us in
16 any kind of position, I welcome you to talk to like the
17 carpenters union, that I have worked with and continue
18 to work with, to do that for all people. And in this
19 job, I consider it part of my job to do everything we
20 can to address in any way we can the salaries of others
21 and opportunities of others.
22 So, again, thank you very much for listening
23 to me, and most of all thank you for doing what you do.
24 CHR. ONO: Thank you, Mayor.
25 MR. HIGGINS: Thank you.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 20
1 MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you.
2 CHR. ONO: Okay, thank you very much,
3 Mayor.
4 MR. KIM: Thank you.
5 CHR. ONO: We have two statements from
6 the public this morning, and we're going to take them
7 in the order that they signed. I'm going to -- we have
8 also a very comprehensive agenda today, so I'm going to
9 ask that these testifiers try and limit their testimony
10 to four minutes.
11 So, with that said -- well, up to this point,
12 any questions or comments from any of the
13 commissioners?
14 Oh, and, Nelson, welcome. We got you recorded
15 as present. Okay?
16 MR. HARANO: Thank you.
17 CHR. ONO: Any questions?
18 If not, I'd like to call on John Callahan.
19 John, please.
20 MR. CALLAHAN: Good morning, ladies and
21 gentlemen.
22 CHR. ONO: Good morning.
23 MR. CALLAHAN: I'm just a humble gardener,
24 and I'm not going to say I know everything about
25 government. I don't. But the reasons why I'm strongly
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 21
1 objecting to any kind of raises are these. We seem to
2 forget our Constitution of the United States. "We, the
3 people of the United States" are the government, not
4 the government itself. And the government itself, like
5 the commissioner and all branches of government, are
6 our servants, not to be abused or misused or what have
7
you,
but they are servants who want to work
and feel
8
they've
been gifted to do this job, need to
humble
9
their
hearts. We're tired of the constant "Give
me,
10
give
me, give me." There's a proverb in the
Bible that
11
says
that's one of the detestable things of
the Bible,
12
and they're
for very good reasons.
13 The reason why that is so -- I'm going to try
14 to be as quickly as I can, but forgive me if I linger a
15 little bit -- is that history teaches loud and clear
16 the horrible costs and the abominable costs of war and
17
civil
unrest
because
government
is saying "Give me,
18
give
me, give
me, or
else." We
need to stop doing that
19 stuff. We need to start loving each other as the
20
Torah, the
Bible, says. We need
to learn how to live
21
within our
means and help others,
bring others up,
22
because if
we can do that, we can
get rid of the civil
23
unrest, or
the potential for it,
we can get rid of
24 animosities between government, we can work together
25 and form a more stable government where everybody
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 22
1 benefits, because there are people who are so burdened,
2 they got two, three jobs, and they're barely making it.
3 Barely making it. And we need to stop doing this.
4 You know, they live -- for myself, I just did
5 a quick estimate. I earn gross under $10,000 a year.
6 Gross. And I got to consider all my expenses. So
7 that's just one person, so...
8 So, also, we need to realize there's a saying,
9 "Ua mau ke ea o ka aina i ka pono." I may not
10 pronounce the Hawaiian quite right, but basically it
11 means the land is perpetuated in righteousness.
12 Now, let's get to some solutions. Okay? Just
13 an example: Those who live in Puna have to buck that
14 stupid construction traffic all the time because they
15 don't know what the hell they're doing, the
16 construction companies. We need to hire companies from
17 the mainland who know how to do roadwork and get it
18 done promptly and quickly. And that's -- and that's
19 why we have the problems we have. That's an example of
20 government waste, you know. We've got to stop the
21 government waste, because that's what it is.
22 And I'm just double-checking to make sure
23 I've got everything I need to express.
24 I will agree with Kim in some respects, that
25 he's a -- you know, that he's right on. You know,
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 23
1 there are people who are -- they're just barely getting
2 by. And we need to stop this, because if we -- if we
3 don't, mark my words -- and the Bible will back me
4 up -- if we don't stop asking for wage increases, if we
5 don't stop doing this stuff and granting it, we will --
6 beyond a shadow of a doubt, we will have civil unrest
7 on this island. And that's wrong. Because even when
8 it's all said and done, people in wars, who have fought
9 in all the different wars, they still suffer from years
10 ago from Vietnam, from the Korean War. There's all
11 these extra expenses that people go through because
12 they've seen things they should not have had to have
13 seen.
14 So, I humbly ask please, please,
15 Commissioners, be humble enough to say, "No," no
16 more -- no more pay raises, especially to higher-ups
17 and about unions.
18 I'm sorry. Forgive me if I'm a little
19 longer, because I've got an appointment. But the thing
20 is this: Unions are great, but they are misusing the
21 people by having a "Give me, give me" attitude. So I
22 would say get rid of the unions and start going back to
23 honesty and integrity, what is right.
24 Thank you so much. Mele Kalikimaka, A Hauoli
25 Makahiki Hou, and Happy Hanukkah. Thanks.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 24
1 CHR. ONO: Thank you very much, John.
2 MR. FRATINARDO: I had a question of him.
3 MR. CALLAHAN: Yeah.
4 MR. FRATINARDO: Thanks, John. I --
5 MR. CALLAHAN: Oh, I thought --
6 MR. FRATINARDO: I have a question for you.
7 MR. CALLAHAN: Yes.
8 MR. FRATINARDO: Please sit down. Thank you,
9 John.
10 I think it's our job to inform the community
11 of how the charter commission came into effect. The
12 charter commission came into effect -- when you talk
13 about "the people, the people," this was put on as a
14 measure on a ballot years and years and years ago, to
15 take the power out of the administration's hands so it
16 would appear for -- that this is not a -- so it's a
17 nonpartisan sort of decision, to give these raises. So,
18 the people of Hawaii Island voted to give this
19 authority to the Charter Commission. And, if people
20 read what the Charter says, it said we shall make these
21 raises. We shall make it.
22 So, what I would like to say is if the people
23 want to make a change, that's up to the people to put
24 it back on the ballot if they don't want us doing our
25 job.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 25
1 And I thank you for your testimony.
2 MR. CALLAHAN: Hey, thank you. Like I said,
3 I don't know everything. Thanks.
4 CHR. ONO: Okay. The next testifier we
5 have are dual testifiers: Mr. William Takaba and
6 Mr. Sidney Fuke.
7 MR. TAKABA: Good morning.
8 CHR. ONO: Good morning.
9 MR. TAKABA: Chair Ono, and Members of the
10 County Salary Commission, I'm Bill Takaba, former
11 Finance Director, Managing Director, and current Chair
12 of the Liquor Commission. With me is Sidney Fuke,
13 former Planning Director and Chair of the Liquor
14 Control Adjudication Board.
15 Thank you all for serving on this very
16 important Salary Commission -- it is very important --
17 and for taking on the task of ensuring that elected
18 officials and top administrators in Hawaii County are
19 fairly compensated.
20 And the key is, you know, it has to be where
21 salaries and benefits have a reasonable relationship to
22 the public and private sectors. And when I talk about
23 public sectors, it's not just this island, but we have
24 to look at it statewide. If you have similar positions
25 statewide, you have to consider, I believe, positions
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 26
1 in other jurisdictions as well.
2 We are here this morning as private
3 individuals, although we serve on the board, to provide
4 testimony on the salary of the County Liquor Control
5 director. The Liquor Control director heads the
6 department that is responsible for the regulation and
7 control of the importation, manufacture, sale, and
8 service of alcoholic beverages through the enforcement
9
of liquor laws.
The department
derives its
funds
10
through its own
sources and is
responsible
for not only
11
the collection and
budgeting of these
funds,
but also
12
it uses the funds
for the operations
of the
department,
13 which includes liquor enforcement inspectors. Its
14 budget is about $2 million.
15 As members of the Liquor Commission and
16 Liquor Control Adjudication Board for many years, we
17 know that the best -qualified directors must have a
18 clear understanding of how laws and rules are
19 administered and can make sound decisions based on this
20 understanding. The director must be able to work with
21 its 400 licensees and the general public to make sure
22 that laws are fairly and efficiently applied. Although
23 this is not a requirement, five of the eight top liquor
24 control administrators in the State have law degrees,
25 including Hawaii County's director, Gerald Takase, and
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 27
1 his administrative officer, Brandon Gonzalez. This
2 pretty much speaks to the complexity of the work of the
3 Liquor Control directors statewide.
4 The current salary of the Liquor Control
5 director in Hawaii County is $99,000 per year, for
6 example, you know, far lower than his counterparts in
7 other jurisdictions. For example, the Honolulu Liquor
8 Commission -- Liquor Control administrator makes
9 $153,000; Maui is $132,000; and Kauai is $109,000. And
10 from what I understand, Kauai is reevaluating the pay
11 of the Kaua'i Liquor Control director, so it may very
12 well go up.
13 The director in Hawaii County earns $10,000
14 per year less than his counterpart on Kauai, even
15 though his service area is seven times larger, his
16 budget is two times bigger, and the number of licensees
17 that he serves and regulates is twice as large. We
18 wholeheartedly subscribe to the idea that bosses should
19 not be paid less than their subordinates; however,
20 consideration should be given not only how much the
21 highest-paid employee in the department is making, but
22 also how much an employee of the department can
23 potentially earn.
24 Is that my four minutes? I hear -- can I,
25 you know, just --
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 28
1 CHR. ONO: Yeah, you have a little bit
2 more to wrap up, so go ahead.
3 MR. TAKABA: Yeah, I'm just coming to the
4 conclusion.
5 CHR. ONO: Thank you.
6 MR. TAKABA: Okay, thanks.
7 In the case of Liquor Control, the department
8 administrative -- I mean Liquor director -- the
9 administrative officer, makes -- he's an EM -3, and he
10 can earn up to 127,000. Although he is not making that
11 now, you know, previous administrator was very close to
12 what the director was making, but, you know, a lot of
13 times it's time -- it's coincidence when the person
14 retires and when the next person comes in and how much
15 you pay the next guy.
16 So although, you know, it's good to look at
17 the salary of the highest-paid individual and make sure
18 that you go -- the director makes more than that, it's
19 equally important to see what the potential of the
20 department is, you know, what the highest-paid
21 administrator can make in the department that works
22 under you. And in this case, it's $127,000. So, we
23 should consider that.
24 But, you know, I would just like to wrap up
25 by saying that consideration should be given to the
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 29
1 complexity of the work that the director performs, how
2 the director's current salary compares to the salaries
3 of the directors in other jurisdictions, the amount the
4 highest-paid employee in the department can potentially
5 earn and, based on the above, select the salary that's
6 appropriate.
7 Finally, scheduling pay adjustments for
8 elected officials and top administration should be on
9 the same frequency as civil service employees to avoid
10 getting into similar pay inequities in the future.
11 And, you know, you are going back every year, and the
12 same thing is going to happen. When the public looks
13 at it, it's like, "Wow, these guys got a 10 percent
14 increase," but they never got raises for ten years, you
15 know. I mean, that's why it looks so terrible when
16 someone writes about it. Okay?
17 Anyway, that's all I -- I would just like to
18 thank you for the opportunity (SEE ATT. A).
19 CHR. ONO: Mr. Fuke, did you want to add
20 anything?
21 MR. FUKE: Sure. Good morning.
22 Just before coming over here, as Bill had
23 mentioned, I was Planning Director. And when I left in
24 December of 1984 and I had the -- I kept the pay stub,
25 and the pay stub was about like $43,000 and change.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 30
1 And so, to some extent, I can appreciate what the mayor
2 was saying, you know, in terms of, you know, the
3 escalating costs, because the proposed salary for the
4 same position that I had is roughly like about three
5 times over.
6 We're here like not testifying, you know, so
7 much about the ability to pay, but just looking at it
8 more from an equity standpoint. Although we're chairs
9 of our respective -- the Liquor Commission and the
10 Adjudication Board, you know, we're not here to speak
11 on their behalf; we are here as individuals.
12
I kind
of provided
you a written
summary
just
13
to help, perhaps,
this Board
to better see
some of
the
14 facts. One of them is like the budget and the number
15 of licensees of all four counties. Kaua'i County has a
16 million -dollar budget; they have 200 licensees. Hawaii
17 County, $2 million budget with 400 licensees; the
18 County of Maui has a $4 million budget and 400
19
licensees,
same amount
as Hawaii County.
The City and
20
County of
Honolulu has
a $10 million budget
with 2000
21 Licensees (SEE ATT. B).
22 So, in terms of the number of licensees,
23 Hawaii is comparable to Maui. The budget of Maui,
24 however, is larger, maybe due in part to their fees,
25 assessments, and higher operating costs, because they
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 31
1 have to service three islands.
2 Now, if you look at the roles and the
3 functions of the directors for all four counties, Kauai
4 and Honolulu counties have only one body, one
5 commission that issues licenses and adjudicates on all
6 violations. On Maui and Hawaii County, however, they
7 have two bodies. They have the adjudication -- they
8 have the Liquor Commission, which issues the license,
9 and the Adjudication Board to determine on violations
10 and penalties.
11 So, while it may seem more efficient and less
12 costly to have one body, the approach, as reflected in
13 the Charters of Maui and Hawaii County, we have two
14 bodies. In so doing, I guess the framers of our
15 Charter and ratified by its citizens believe that there
16 would be greater impartiality in dispensing justice
17 inasmuch as the Adjudication Board acts like an appeals
18 board or like your court. Relative to salary, the
19 point here is that like Maui County, Hawai'i's Liquor
20 director must administer two rather than only one
21 board.
22 In terms of the organizational set-up for all
23 four counties, Maui and Honolulu counties have a
24 director, and they also have a deputy director. Kauai
25 County, which is the smallest county, and Hawaii
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 32
1 counties do not have a deputy director. So Maui, with
2 its 400 licensees, has a deputy. Hawaii does not.
3 Almost all departments in Hawaii County, on the other
4 hand, have a deputy, including the Planning Department,
5 which administers a commission and an appeals board.
6 The absence of a deputy translates to greater burden on
7 the director. In terms of the salary, as Bill kind of
8 pointed out, Honolulu has -- the director has $153,000,
9 Maui 132K, Kauai 109K, and Hawaii County 99K.
10 So, in conclusion, given the above, from my
11 perspective, anyway, I think a reasonable salary, and
12 notwithstanding the ability to pay aspect, should be
13 more than Kauai, which is 109,000, and closer to Maui,
14 which is 132,000. However, you know, like -- given,
15 you know, what the preliminary action the commission
16 has taken in terms of the salary for the Planning
17 director, I believe like the most reasonable
18 compensation for the Liquor director's position should
19 really be comparable to the Planning director's
20 position.
21 Thank you very much.
22 CHR. ONO: Any questions? Mr. Pavao.
23 MR. PAVAO: It's not so much a question. I
24 think we all agree that raises are warranted; but as
25 you heard the mayor when he was here speaking, there is
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 33
1 a problem. And I totally agree there is a problem.
2 And I guess I'd just like to ask both of you, because
3 of your expertise, Bill with Finance and Sydney, you
4 have been around forever, how would you recommend
5 implementation of raises? Because as the mayor said,
6 it is a burden on the budget; but, really, that should
7 not deter us from giving raises, but there must be a
8 mechanism of some sort of balance where the raises can
9 be given maybe over a period of time or -- I would just
10 like to hear your recommendations or your thoughts on
11 how these considerable raises should be implemented.
12 MR. TAKABA: Okay, thank you. There was a
13 time that there were steps within the salary structure
14 for department heads. And through the course of time,
15 that was done away with, I think, you know. I don't
16 see it anymore. But it's been tried before. I think
17 if the Salary Commission would stick to a schedule, and
18 if the schedule is as frequent as civil service
19 employees get their raises, then I don't think we would
20 be in this situation.
21 And, you know, I really believe that the
22 evaluation should take place on a regular basis, you
23 know, and at least be in line -- be more up-to-date as
24 to how frequent, you know, the changes are made. If
25 it's done every five years, you know, then you get into
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 34
1 the same situation every time.
2 MR. PAVAO: What would you think of a
3 condition set by this commission such that, just off
4 the top of my head, the director should make, say, 5
5 percent more than the highest-paid employee and put a
6 condition on the raise, saying that whenever the union
7 agrees to wage increases, that 5 percent should
8 automatically kick in? I mean, I'm just using 5
9 percent. It could be anything. Would something like
10 that work? Then the commission would not have to be
11 meeting every time to set salaries.
12 MR. TAKABA: Yeah, I understand. There are a
13 couple things that I would like to point out. You
14 know, one is that in collective bargaining, you have
15 management and you have the employee, right? And if
16 you tie management in with an employee's salary, then
17 that might not be a good strategy or even -- I don't
18 know how legal that might be or whatever, you know.
19 And that's why they try to stay away from, you know,
20 timing a salary of an employee with the salary of a
21 department head. You have to separate management and
22 collective bargaining from the employees that are
23 receiving the raises.
24
The other
thing
is, yeah, you bring up
good
25
points, you know. I
think
that's something that
you
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 35
1 should consider, the fact that you do have some tie-in.
2 But, you know, as I mentioned in my testimony, a lot of
3 it depends on timing. If we -- if somebody, you know,
4 has a longevity, like they stay for -- like there are
5 many people in the County -- I mean, not many, but
6 there are some people in the County who have worked
7 over 40 years. And if you're in a department -- you're
8 a department head that has an employee that's been
9 there for 40 years, then, you know, that's something
10 that, you know, you're going to benefit from, whereas
11 another department who has, you know, retirements
12 frequently, then you'll never -- that department will
13 never have their employees up to the department. So, it
14 might be unfair in one department where employees don't
15 move up; they just retire. You have young employees or
16 older employees that don't retire. And if you tie that
17 into a department, then, again, you are depending on
18 timing and coincidence. But, you know, I mean,
19 somewhere along the line, there might be a way to make
20 that work, as long as it's fair to every other
21 department and uniform in the way you administer it.
22 MR. PAVAO: Well, unfortunately, the union
23 does not recognize length of service, just position,
24 right?
25 MR. TAKABA: Right. So...
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 36
1 MR. PAVAO: That doesn't work.
2 MR. FUKE: Yeah, I really don't have the
3 answer, but I think that, you know, largely it relates
4 to the fundability aspect, whether government can fund
5 the increases. Correct. So, if you have like
6 collective bargaining and there's a decision made to
7 accept whatever the raise -- you know, whatever the
8 increases are, then the respective counties have to
9 look at their budget and they're going to have to make
10 the adjustments to accommodate that, right, and then
11 they're going to decide on whether to accept -- to
12 ratify or not to ratify. The salaries on the cabinet
13 officers, however, they are totally divorced, so that's
14 why, as Mayor Kim kind of pointed out today, they
15 didn't anticipate this.
16 So to the extent that -- you know, I don't
17 know what the answer is, but I think that to the extent
18 that you can try to kind of integrate any collective
19 bargaining increases to, like, some consideration for
20 the cabinet officers appointed, you know, increases
21 too, then when you try to create your fundability,
22 whether the County is able to fund it or not, you will
23 now be able to have more comprehensive perspective of
24 it relative to -- well, I don't know whether it's legal
25 or not, but I'm looking at it purely from a fundability
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 37
1 standpoint. And I don't know whether it's legal or
2 not.
3 But the mayor, you know, brought up a pretty
4 interesting point about like, okay, maybe there's no
5 dispute in terms of what the equitable pay should be,
6 you know, given what's happened with the collective
7 bargaining situation, but they didn't address that in
8 their current budget,
so he's
suggesting that maybe you
9 can kind of like defer
that
until the next fiscal year,
10 you know? Maybe that's a consideration or maybe just
11 providing some incremental steps and maybe getting
12 the -- you know, the full pay out maybe when the new
13 fiscal year begins or something to that effect.
14 MR. TAKABA: The mayor also mentioned, you
15
know, where it's
difficult to
get employee --
16
department heads,
you know, to
recruit department
17
heads, because --
you know, from
within, because a lot
18
of times, people
within make more
than the department
19
head, so why should
they move?
But, you know, a lot of
20 that has to do with overtime, you know, so -- you know,
21 like police and fire, you know, there's a lot of
22 overtime in there. And I'm not sure if this commission
23 is looking at base pay, or are they including overtime
24 with that pay? It's just base pay, yeah. And I think
25 that's the way it should be. But, no matter what, it's
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 38
still going to be difficult to recruit people from
within a lot of times, because if you're in an overtime
situation, then, you know, it doesn't make sense for
you to move --
MR. PAVAO: Yeah.
MR. TAKABA: -- if you're looking at purely a
cash --
CHR. ONO: You know what? In the
interest of time, in managing this meeting, unless you
have something really pertinent to say, I would like to
go to next statement.
Milton, do you have anything else?
MR. PAVAO: No, that's okay.
CHR. ONO: Have you folks covered it
adequately?
seconds.
25 Commission
MR. FUKE: Thank you.
CHR. ONO: Thank you, gentlemen.
Next speaker is Councilwoman Susan Lee Loy.
Susan, you're special; you only get 30
MS. LEE LOY: Oh, 30 seconds?
CHR. ONO: No, four minutes.
MS. LEE LOY: Thank you.
Good morning, Chair, and Members of the
I'm kind of nervous. Usually I'm on the
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 39
1 other side of this. I really appreciate, actually,
2 going after Bill Takaba and Sidney Fuke who have been
3 incredible mentors to me.
4 And
as a
freshman
council
member, you
know,
5 we're dealing
with
a lot.
But what
I did hear
the
6 commission talk about today was balance and looking for
7 some continuity to maintain some of the think tank and
8 some of the skill sets that are in these departments.
9 And I truly can appreciate, you know, some of the
10 technical expertise that goes into, you know, someone
11
from the Planning Department or
someone, you
know,
at
12
Public Works, a chief engineer
that there's a
skill
set
13 that they need to have to have those positions.
14 So, as I sat through a lot of the
15
conversation, you
know,
you guys have a
tough task, but
16
rather than dwell
right
here, maybe if I
could just
17 offer some suggestions which I hear coming up is
18 opportunities to better plan, you know, maybe a phased
19 approach with some of the salaries, or looking at
20 administrative rules or future rules or policies that
21 would maybe set some foundation so this body is not
22 having to play catch-up, you know.
23 You've heard testimony about it's been ten
24
years
since
some of
these people
have
gotten raises;
25
and so
it is
a very
bitter pill
to try
and swallow to
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 40
1 play catch-up. But if there's ways or opportunities
2 for this body to look at maybe setting some amounts for
3 the future, which in turn actually helps the council,
4 because we can begin to forecast a little better, you
5 know.
6 We just approved SHOPO's raises. You know,
7 we're looking at HGEA, fire. And, you know, Sidney
8 Fuke has been a great mentor, and he's been a planner,
9 and, you know, that kind of information actually helps
10 us; so when we start looking at a budget, we know what
11 we need to take into consideration.
12 One comment I did appreciate was the mayor's
13 consideration of maybe setting it after July 1, because
14 the budget has already been set; so we're going to have
15 to be figuring out how to move monies around to look at
16 paying for some of these raises.
17 I completely support the idea of, you know,
18 bringing equity with the pay inversion. And I also
19 appreciate -- I believe it's Mr. Ono -- he went through
20 a checklist of facts on how this body kind of came up
21 with these raises. It wasn't just, you know, pulled
22 out of the air; it was a very succinct process. So if
23 somehow we could get some of that into the policies and
24 then help us as a council get ready for whatever budget
25 increases we have to look at and then, you know, like
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 41
1 the mayor said, his administration.
2 So, those are my thoughts. I'm out of time.
3 But I'm a firm believer out of chaos comes
4 opportunities, and so just using this as a foundation
5 to look at opportunities for the future. Thank you.
6 CHR. ONO: Any questions of Councilwoman
7 Lee Loy?
8
MR. FRATINARDO:
Question. Okay. So, when we
9
first met as a commission,
we saw that one of the
10
priorities were to correct
deficiencies. So that's one
11
of our priorities and one
of the elements that we use
12
to make a decision.
13
So, in the past,
I don't know how the previous
14
commissions came to whatever
decision they made,
15
because I have no data, so
I'm working off of a blank
16
sheet as well, as the rest
of the commissioners. But
17
what I am looking at are --
and let's use an example as
18
the prosecuting attorney's
office, Mitch Roth. He has
19
a large staff, and he's the lowest -paid prosecutor by
20
about $40,000, roughly, in
the State. And he has not
21
only his department that he's
managing; he also has his
22
family that he's managing.
And there are opportunities
23
out there for him that are
being presented.
24
So at what point
do we as commissioners say,
25 "We need to make a decision right away so we don't
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 42
1 lose" -- like I said earlier -- continuity, because
2 people are bailing and jumping ship. At what point do
3 we say, "Hey, when is the right decision?" I'm looking
4 for balance. So when is the right time, right? And
5 people were talking about timing. Timing, right? So
6 this is not our only raise that we're going to give.
7 We're talking about a two -phased approach; so to go
8 back later and revisit it and see where we're going to
9 go with the structuring of the pay scale for the
10 appointed positions and the elected positions.
11 So, in your opinion, if you had knowledge that
12 people might want to leave -- we have this really
13 experienced body of people working in our County --
14 what would -- how should we handle that, do you think?
15 MS. LEE LOY: Great question.
16 You know, I'm just going to rely on my own
17 experiences. I actually started here at the County
18 Council when I was 20 years old, and gained a lot of
19 knowledge, and then went over to the private sector and
20 got paid very, very well. And I share that story
21 because there's a personal decision that goes into
22 whether you want to stay and what the potential of your
23 job opportunities are or whether you want to make the
24 decision to go get more money.
25 I think if I had a crystal ball, I think that
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 43
1 a tiered or multi -pronged approach that sets a salary
2 and then incentivizes people to stay and, you know,
3 hone their skills, hone their technical training,
4 become more ingrained with that department I think is a
5 fair approach. But we also know there's a whole bunch
6 of other things that go into people staying employed,
7 you know. It's personalities in those departments.
8 It's a bunch of other personal factors. And I believe
9 this body is doing a wonderful job of at least creating
10 some framework so that anybody who is thinking about
11 coming on board or already on board and wants to stick
12 around, what that future might hold for them.
13 So I believe that multi -pronged, tiered
14 approach seems like a balanced way to move forward.
15 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you.
16 CHR. ONO: Thank you very much,
17 Councilwoman.
18 Our last speaker is Mr. Saolegh [sic]. I
19 believe it's spelled S -a -o -l -e -g -h, as I read it here.
20 MR. SADEGH: S -a -d -e -g -h.
21 CHR. ONO: Okay. How do you pronounce
22 that, Sir?
23
MR.
SADEGH:
Sadegh.
24
CHR.
ONO:
Sadegh.
25
Mr.
Sadegh,
you're up.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 44
1 MR. SADEGH: Mr. Chairman, first of all, my
2 name is Abraham Sadegh, and I was born in Tehran, Iran
3 in 1940. I have -- nearly four decades of my adult
4 life has been in the United States.
5 I am the founder -- I was born in a Shiite
6 family, the shorter, or less, section -- lesser section
7 of the Islam. I found that the Universal realm of the
8 Lord Almighty that -- I just want to spend a moment
9 briefly mentioning what it is, because it has relevance
10 to everything else I'm going to say.
11 The essence of it is that believing in God is
12 optional. By saying that, I'm including the rest of
13 humanity. Believing in humanity is not. And that our
14 sole responsibility in this phase of our existence is
15 to transform this planet to the paradise for us as it
16 already is instinctively for all creatures on the web
17 of life. And also that we're all born citizens of this
18 planet. At birth we had no knowledge of anything about
19 our environment. And those are taken. Then we have to
20 provide an environment/create an environment for that
21 every child across this planet reaches its full
22 potential and that every human being has the right to
23 its fair share of the resources of this planet. If
24 (inaudible) was here, they say had 50 billion, I
25 would have given another 50 billion. But families do
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 45
1 not -- should not live in poverty. I experienced part
2 of Los Angeles for ten years. You cannot raise a child
3 that reaches its fullness potential.
4 Today regarding -- and I have a couple of
5 questions. First of all, you ladies and gentlemen are
6 elected to your position, right?
7 CHR. ONO: We are not.
8 MR. SADEGH: Appointed?
9 CHR. ONO: Yes, we are appointed.
10 MR. SADEGH: And also that the topic today
11 actually is about raise for between 12 percent and so
12 on for the already highest-paid officials of the
13 County. Am I correct?
14 CHR. ONO: No, I don't believe so.
15 MR. SADEGH: So there was a thing about
16 people getting 12 percent raise who are already making
17 99,000 and above?
18 CHR. ONO: That is one of the facts that
19 surfaced, but the overall changes in the salaries were
20 based on many, many factors which this commission had
21 to address.
22 MR. SADEGH: I see.
23 Well, today -- there's a letter today from
24 Mr. (inaudible) -- I'm sorry, I don't know the
25 distinction in terms of names -- Hayani Kamani, and
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 46
1 I'll just read one paragraph of that. 52 percent of
2 the public school students are economically
3 disadvantaged, which diminishes the students'
4 educational achievement; that our average income is
5 about $55,000 a year here on the island. That makes
6 somebody who makes $200,000 totally just, to me,
7 outrageous. Doesn't matter what they do. I mean, I
8 would -- I would say if the average income is $55,000,
9 make twice as much for someone to have everything, for
10 others to live in poverty, that just doesn't make
11 sense.
12 We don't need to compete with everybody else
13 in the world. We need to do the best for this County,
14 and we need to have people who are willing to give up
15 part of their lives without having to, you know, have a
16 yacht or this or that. They can't have that. I don't
17 know. But to live in poverty, to walk around a lady
18 with just one tooth because she cannot afford a doctor,
19 even, that is outrageous. To have to go to bed
20 hungry -- three million American children go to bed
21 hungry -- that is outrageous. We have to accept people
22 here who are willing to give of themselves, live a
23 comfortable life, but don't live above everybody else.
24 My own income has been limited to less than
25 $900, which is my Social Security. Because of my
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 47
1 ideas, I'm being profiled. But I'm still alive with
2 less than a thousand dollars income. I sleep on the
3 ground because I ran away from United States when --
4 CHR. ONO: Mr. Sadegh, I'm going to have
5 to ask you to wrap up within 30 seconds, please.
6 MR. SADEGH: All right.
7 What I am saying is that we don't have to
8 compete with anybody. We don't have to compare
9 ourselves with any other state. We need to decide what
10 is best for us to create really a paradise here for
11 every human being that deserves to be in paradise in
12 this United States of America. Thank you, Sir.
13 CHR. ONO: Thank you very much. And, you
14 know, none of us disagree with you.
15 MR. SADEGH: Well, I am glad to hear that.
16 CHR. ONO: Thank you very much.
17 MR. SADEGH: So, when are top salaries going
18 to be reduced? Thank you.
19 CHR. ONO: Okay.
20 MR. FRATINARDO: Excuse me, Mr. Chair.
21 CHR. ONO: Yes.
22 MR. FRATINARDO: Could we have a break for a
23 bathroom break? Is that a possibility?
24 CHR. ONO: We -- no. No breaks.
25 Why don't we do this. Why don't we take a
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 five-minute break. Be back at 11:15 so we can continue
2 on with the agenda, please.
3 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you.
4 (Recess ensued from 11:07 a.m. to 11:16 a.m.)
5 CHR. ONO: Can we call the meeting back
6 to order? We're going to try and keep this meeting on
7 track. So we used up a substantial amount of time with
8 the statements and dialogue between the testifiers, so
9 if we could, let's try and be as efficient as we can in
10 getting through this agenda.
11 I probably want to take a survey. Is this
12 commission willing to stay beyond lunchtime? I mean,
13 is there anybody unable to do that?
14 I know you have a conference call.
15 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. I'll stay as long as I
16 can.
17 CHR. ONO: What is more important,
18 conference call or us?
19 MR. HIGGINS: Actually, both.
20 MR. HARANO: County.
21 CHR. ONO: Yeah. Hopefully, we can -- we
22 don't have to do that.
23 MR. HIGGINS: Depends on what's fair.
24 CHR. ONO: And, you know, we'll find an
25 appropriate time to cease the meeting and adjourn, and
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 49
1 we can always go to the next scheduled meeting.
2 Okay, the next item on the agenda is the
3 approval of the October 11th, 2017 minutes. With that,
4 the Chair will accept a motion to accept those minutes.
5 MS. IKEDA: So moved.
6 CHR. ONO: Somebody moves?
7 Do we have a second?
8 MR. HARANO: I second.
9 CHR. ONO: Okay, Nelson seconds. Any
10 discussion on that?
11 Not hearing anything, all those in favor
12 accepting the minutes of October --
13 MS. SELF: 11th.
14 CHR. ONO: -- 11th say "Aye."
15 (All Commissioners responded affirmatively.)
16 CHR. ONO: Motion carried.
17 Let me see. Next item on the agenda is New
18 Business. We have been through the Communication. No,
19 I'm sorry, it is Communications.
20 We have a memorandum that is from the Acting
21 Director of Human Resources dated -- well, anyway, Bill,
22 do you want to do us a favor and explain this memo.
23 which is included as part of your agenda (SEE ATT. C)?
24 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. Thank you very much,
25 Chair Ono. William Brilhante again, Acting
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 50
1 Administrator, Department of Human Resources.
2 This memo. that we provided is, you know,
3 from -- is generated by our incredibly hard-working
4 staff, so I would like to thank them. They are here in
5 the audience today. And basically what this memo. does
6 is it clarifies the previous raises that were approved
7 by this commission in that it makes each of the
8 salaries into 24 equally divisible payments. That way,
9 as the salaries are, you know, paid annually and
10 calculated, they are much easier for our payroll and
11 our, you know, finance specialists to calculate, and it
12 just creates a easier process.
13 And, generally, you know, as we do raises,
14 that's how we approach each and every raise for all the
15 departments is we make them easily divisible within the
16 24 -pay -period scale. And that's all this memo. does is
17 it clarifies the salaries.
18 CHR. ONO: Thank you.
19 Well, let me make a comment on this. You
20 will note that the effective date of these salary
21 changes is January lst, 2018. I have since been
22 advised that this commission cannot change that. If we
23 do it, it must be under a separate action. So, as it
24 stands of right now, we are not able to have a
25 discussion on something that we have already approved.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 51
1
And
with that said, any questions on this?
2
MS.
IKEDA: So what happens? Because, you
3
know, we took
the action, but it cannot -- it doesn't
4
stand, so what
happens next? Because we had approved
5
for January of
2018, but it's not legal, so what
6
happens next?
7
MS.
SELF: No, it is legal.
8
MR.
FRATINARDO: It is legal.
9
MS.
SELF: You made a motion and you approved
10
that, so it's
already happening. But there's nothing
11
on the agenda
to do to -- there's no other action.
12
CHR.
ONO: This is, primarily, for
13
information.
14
And,
for your information, the salaries were
15
adjusted a slight
bit so that they are 24 salary
16
payments and it
comes out equal without -- nice job.
17
And thank the
Department of Human Resources.
18
MR.
BRILHANTE: Again, I have to thank my
19
staff.
20
CHR.
ONO: Thank you, Jennifer.
21
MR.
BRILHANTE: Jenny and Michele, thank
22 you.
23 CHR. ONO: Okay. Next item is New
24 Business. Do we have any new business? No, we don't.
25 That being said, let's go to the Unfinished
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 52
1 Business. And the next item is review of existing
2 compensation plan included in this discussion. Anyway,
3 there is a salary and worksheet that your Chair worked
4 on, again to have a starting point for discussion. And
5 it is included as part of your orange tab, and it's an
6 11 -by -17 sheet. And basically -- let me explain the
7 top portion of that (SEE ATT. D).
8 Does everybody have this sheet? It kind of
9 looks like this thing.
10 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes.
11 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's on the orange tab
12 that's called, in your folder, "Salary Worksheet."
13 Yeah.
14 Oh, they are different colors, so you don't
15 have an orange tab; you might have a different color.
16 It's discrimination to me. But, anyway, hey, it looks
17 like this. Okay?
18 MR. CAMPBELL: Yep.
19 CHR. ONO: Anyway, what your Chair did,
20 he did the same thing that he did last time and
21 basically tried to provide information all in one place
22 so we could look at what we're calling the Tier 3
23 Priority C positions. So these are the positions other
24
than the A
and
B positions, which we had salary
25
inversions
or
something really glaring within the
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 53
1 salary schedule.
2 So,
with that,
the suggested
salary,
to begin
3 the discussion,
is shown
in column No.
7 in the
green
4 column. And,
again, it's
only the top
half of
the
5 page. So, the
Chair will
entertain any
motion
to begin
6 the discussion
on this.
7 MR.
FRATINARDO:
District 1,
I would
like to
8 make a motion to open up discussion on the adjusted
9 salaries.
10 MR. CAMPBELL: Second.
11 CHR. ONO: Moved and seconded that we
12 open up discussion on these suggested salaries.
13 All those in favor say "Aye."
14 (All Commissioners responded affirmatively.)
15 CHR. ONO: Opposed? None.
16 Let's begin the discussion.
17 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay.
18 CHR. ONO: And, again, I might say that
19 these suggested salaries are on the same basis that
20 there are approximately 5 percent, or in some of these
21 cases, we just tried to pick an area someplace
22 between -- that falls comparable to consideration with
23 the different Counties across the state: Kaua'i, Maui,
24 and the City and County of Honolulu.
25 MR. FRATINARDO: Mr. Chair, I have spoken to
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 54
1 a couple of -- and I won't state their names because
2 they're not here -- but some of the information I've
3 got is that since the '80s, this island has grown, and
4 there's a perception that, you know, their job is --
5 with the County Council, that their job is part-time;
6 but because of the change in population and the
7 workload
that
they're
under
now, that
they're
not a
8 part-time
job.
And I'd
ask
a couple
of other
County
9
council members to come in
and give
their testimony so
10
that their technical jobs
-- not to
ask them to either
11
a yea or
nay
on the pay
raises for them,
but
just
12
explain
what
they do as
a councilperson
so I
can use
13 that information and make a informed decision relative
14 to giving them a raise or not.
15 So I was wondering if we could invite those
16 County council members back -- I mean, I'm glad Sue
17
Lee Loy came in, but
if we can bring all of them and
18
ask them,
pertaining
to their job description and each
19
district,
what they're
doing for their constituents.
20 CHR. ONO: That's fine with me.
21 Any comment from any of other commissioners?
22 MR. CAMPBELL: I don't know if you would need
23 to do that for every council member. Certainly for the
24 council member -- councilwoman in Ka'u, I pretty much
25 know what she does and -- because she's active; she's
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 55
1 out there in the community and leads the Finance
2 Committee and several other things that are a lot of
3 work. I mean, more than 100 percent time. She works
4 day and night.
5 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. And for me, it's
6 about people having this perception that their job is
7 part time or -- I've bumped into council members in KTA,
8 for example, at 11:00 at night that just came from a
9 meeting, and they're working a lot of hours along with
10 maybe their other job also.
11 CHR. ONO: Well, the Chair can share with
12 you that I don't think being an effective councilperson
13 is a part-time job. It started off years ago that the
14 County council people are supposedly policy-making only;
15 and for that reason, they used to meet/decide on policy
16 for the County, this County; but what has transitioned
17 is over the years, they have been people that their
18 constituents go to, to solve problems and issues, and
19 they have to be much more involved in order to
20 understand and make decisions on their policies. So I
21 don't believe there is anybody that can effectively be
22 a councilperson today and do it on a part-time basis.
23 But that would be my observation.
24 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you.
25 MR. HIGGINS: For me, I don't think it would
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 56
1 make any difference if more people come and tell us the
2 kind of job that they're doing. I can't imagine
3 anybody coming here and saying that they're doing a
4 lousy job or not working hard enough. So, I don't think
5 that would be meaningful to have that many more
6 testimonies. For me, it's a matter of looking at the
7 suggested list. And there's a lot of 25-percenters in
8 there, and if you go this -- trying to figure out the
9 balance from what the mayor is saying is that, hey, you
10 know, a burden on the budget is also a burden on all
11 taxpayers. So, we get back to that, this affordability
12 thing. So, I don't know how we're going to resolve
13 that. Nobody here, including the mayor, has an answer.
14 CHR. ONO: No, there isn't really a good
15 answer.
16 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah.
17 CHR. ONO: I totally agree.
18 Can the Chair suggest this, that we take this
19 information and return at the next meeting -- I'm going
20 to ask each commissioner to take a look at each of
21 these salaries here and come with your specific
22 recommendation so that, at the next meeting, we can
23 decide on what these salaries should be for these
24 positions; and then also if we adopt that new salary
25 schedule for these positions here, that we set an
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 57
1 effective date for these positions at our next meeting?
2 Does that sound acceptable?
3 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes.
4 CHR. ONO: Okay.
5 MR. PAVAO: Yeah.
6 MR. HIGGINS: I'd like to just put one more
7 input in. Don't forget the salary increases are one
8 thing that the budget people are going to have to work
9 with the mayor on -- from July, I guess, next year on.
10 It's not only the salary increases, but it's also the
11 funding of the increases of the contributions to the
12 retirement plan that we are approving as well. We're
13 not talking about that, but that effectively, because
14 you have a two-pronged array, increase in expenses to
15 the budget as a result. And just throw that out. So,
16 it puts more pressure. The more of the pay increases
17 that we approve, the more, actually, that the County
18 has to come up with.
19 CHR. ONO: May I have a motion to defer
20 this to the next meeting, then, this item?
21 MR. PAVAO: So moved.
22 MR. CAMPBELL: Second.
23 MS. IKEDA: Second.
24 CHR. ONO: Moved and seconded that we
25 defer this to the next item. Come prepared to discuss
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 58
1 it, as we have previously stated.
2 All those in favor -- any discussion on that?
3 Mr. Pavao made the motion, and it was
4 seconded by Ms. Ikeda or someone else? Good enough.
5 Okay.
6 All those in favor say "Aye."
7 (All Commissioners responded affirmatively.)
8 CHR. ONO: Nay?
9 Motion is carried. So, that will appear in
10 the next agenda.
11 The next item is the Commission Execution
12 Plan (SEE. ATT. E). And this is just for information
13 Only. And it is indicated -- called updated -- no.
14 MR. BRILHANTE: It's entitled Execution --
15 CHR. ONO: Execution Plan.
16 MR. FRATINARDO: Execution Plan.
17 CHR. ONO: Yeah. Okay. Anyway, again,
18 what was done here was just updated with dates, and
19 then what's happening when -- some of these items are
20 on this agenda, so it's shown there on the right-hand
21 column as on agenda. And this is primarily for
22 information only. I don't believe that we have to act
23 on this at all. But any questions on it?
24 If not, let's move on to the next item, which
25 is Talking Paper. And it's the next tab. And what we
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 59
1 decided to do is I thought I'd put together a chain of
2 events on what this commission went through in coming
3 up with the approval at the last meeting, to include
4 the 6-2 vote and setting the effective date. So that
5 is shown on that spread sheet over there. And it's
6 primarily for information (SEE ATT. F).
7 And I find this helpful so that -- sometimes
8 in explaining, there's so many points that we went
9 through that just handing this out might serve as a
10 better tool when you're asked questions about
11 specifics. At least it gives the people that are
12 inquiring a handle of what this commission went through
13 in making its final decision as far as the salary
14 increases that were put into effect effective
15 January 1st, 2018.
16 And, again, any questions on this?
17 MR. CAMPBELL: Very helpful. Thank you for
18 doing that.
19
MR. HIGGINS: Yeah.
20
CHR. ONO: I thought it is,
you know.
21
And I can't remember anything. That's
why. So
put it
22
in writing. And then, I forget how to
read. I
don't
23
know how to do that either. Anyway,
so that's
for
24
information only.
25
The next one is discussion
regarding
the
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 60
1 recent salary increases approved at the last commission
2 meeting. In reviewing these -- the salaries that we
3 put into effect dated January 1st, 2018, there were
4 two -- four positions in there that the Chair thought
5 was funny. And, again, if you go to the sheet that we
6 just looked at, the salary worksheet, the positions
7 occur within Planning Department and the Department of
8 Human Resources (SEE ATT. D).
9 And if you can pull out that same sheet that
10 we looked at, the one that we deferred, it's on the
11 bottom, and it's titled -- the bottom section is called
12 "Salary Worksheet for Re: Discussion of Previously
13
Approved
Priority Level A
Positions." And it shows the
14
Director
of Planning and
the Deputy, the salary that we
15
approved
in column 4, the
previous salary, what it was,
16
and a suggested new salary, and also the
comparables
17
for Maui, Kaua'i,
and the City and County
of Honolulu.
18
Let
me explain why I felt there
was something
19
really strange
about these. The Planning
director, we
20
set the salary
at $117,486. The Planning
Department is
21 one that requires a certain type of professional.
22 Needs to be a planning profession. And the position is
23 very important to the County of Hawaii because all the
24 planning approvals, development plans, community
25 development plans, that come through, are going to be
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 61
1 part of this County's future, go to the Planning
2 Department; and I felt that there was quite a
3 deficiency in what we set the salary at. My thinking
4 was that it should be equal to those people that head
5 up the Department of Public Works and the Department of
6 Environmental Management, who are professional
7 engineers. And so, that's reason for that one.
8 And the director of Human Resources and the
9 deputy for that was set at $111,000, and, again, that
10 position is also professional level; you can't just
11 pick any businessperson off of the street. And they
12 have to have a background in human resources, labor
13 relations. They work on the negotiations for the
14 County. So, I felt that that was -- that was an
15 incorrect salary that we had set that at.
16 So, with that, I'd like to know, you know,
17 what the thoughts of the people on this commission are.
18 MR. FRATINARDO: I think you're correct,
19 Mr. Ono. It may have been a little -- we may have
20 overlooked it a little -- a lot. I think we overlooked
21 that. I think it should have been addressed. And the
22 reason why, I'm a Homeland Security sort of a -- all of
23 these positions would be affected if we had some sort
24 of a disaster; so they would be tied in with all of our
25 first responders sort of positions. When we have an
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 62
1 earthquake, who do we go to? Civil Defense goes to
2 these people to respond for a plan. How do we deploy?
3 And I think you are absolutely right by adjusting the
4 salaries.
5 CHR. ONO: Well, another thing. I
6 included the Parks deputy and the director position
7 primarily as information. We set the Parks director at
8 $128,760 and the deputy accordingly lower. The Parks
9 Department probably doesn't require as much detailed
10 expertise as running the Department of Public Works or
11 Environmental Management, nor the Planning Department.
12 And that is just provided for information. So I
13 thought, at the very least, these positions that we're
14 talking about should at least match the director of
15 Parks, director and the deputy of the Department of
16 Parks and Recreation.
17 So, with that said, any other comments?
18 Chair would entertain a motion to -- Amy, we
19 have to handle this differently, right? Because these
20 were previously approved.
21 MS. SELF: It would have to be a new motion.
22 You can't reconsider what you have already done.
23 CHR. ONO: Okay.
24 MR. FRATINARDO: When it comes to the Parks
25 Department, I know people that work for Parks
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 63
1 Department, several supervisors, so when there's like
2 some sort of a disaster that occurs, those people have
3 to go to the Parks director, and those people actually
4 get redeployed to other --
5 CHR. ONO: We're not changing theirs.
6 MR. FRATINARDO: No, no.
7 CHR. ONO: That one is not --
8 MR. FRATINARDO: But, I mean, it's a very
9 important position is what I'm just trying to say.
10 CHR. ONO: So the Chair would entertain a
11 motion to adopt this or do something with it for
12 discussion.
13 MR. FRATINARDO: I would like to make a
14 motion to discuss the adoption of these new salaries.
15 CHR. ONO: The Chair might -- yeah, the
16 Chair would --
17 MR. FRATINARDO: Is that what he said? He's
18 asking that
19
MS.
SELF:
If it's a motion,
it's
going to
20
have to
be --
if you
want to consider
these
new
21
salaries
that
are on
this --
22
CHR.
ONO:
Yes.
23
MS.
SELF:
-- it would have
to be
a new
24
motion.
You can't
go back to what you
have
already
25
passed,
so --
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 64
1 CHR.
ONO:
So, the motion would be to
2 adopt this and
then
we can discuss it.
3 MR.
PAVAO:
Mr. Chair, we can already adopt
4 what exists here,
correct?
5 MS.
SELF:
No.
6 MR.
PAVAO:
Mr. Chair, I think the proper way
7 is for us to
8 MR. HIGGINS: I'm lost.
9 MR. PAVAO: -- agree on an agenda item for a
10 future meeting so we can discuss that as well as the
11 implementation plan, should we want to revise it at
12 some future meeting. I don't think we can do it at
13 this meeting. It's already done.
14 MS. SELF: He's discussing a motion to adopt
15 these salaries for these particular positions. So
16 you've already adopted salaries at the November 27th
17 meeting, so that's already done. It's effective
18 January 1st. So you can't reconsider that. It's
19 already done.
20 But what the Chair is talking about doing is
21 making a new motion to adopt these new salaries.
22 MR. FRATINARDO: The ones on the bottom.
23 MR. HIGGINS: Oh, the ones on the bottom.
24 MS. SELF: Yes, for Planning director and
25 deputy Planning director.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 65
1 CHR. ONO: And Human Resources.
2 MR. FRATINARDO: I have a question --
3 MR. PAVAO: Some of those was already done at
4 the last meeting.
5 MS. SELF: Yes.
6 MR. FRATINARDO: I have a question for --
7 MS. SELF: He's asking for a new motion to
8 set it at these salaries. So, in effect, it would be
9 whatever vote you take today on these, whether or not
10 the previous one would go forward, or if it would be
11 this one, depending on how you vote today.
12 MR. FRATINARDO: Got it.
13 CHR. ONO: The Chair might explain that
14 we need the motion to put it into discussion, not that
15 we would approve it, but, you know, we need the motion
16 to have the discussion. And we might defer it to a
17 future time, but we do need the motion to discuss it as
18 part of our agenda, and then --
19 MR. FRATINARDO: I made the motion. I made
20 the motion to discuss these for change. I made that
21 motion. I made a motion --
22 MR. CAMPBELL: Right.
23 MR. HIGGINS: Yes, he did.
24 MR. FRATINARDO: -- to discuss exactly what
25 you want to do.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 66
1 MR.
CAMPBELL:
Second.
2 MS.
SELF: I
think what he's asking -- you
3 can
4 CHR. ONO: That's fine with me.
5 MR. FRATINARDO: Not to change it, but I made
6 the motion to discuss -- have this discussion.
7 MS. SELF: Okay. Just for purposes of
8 discussion?
9 MR. FRATINARDO: That's what you're asking,
10 correct?
11 MS. SELF: To discuss, or did you want to
12 take action?
13 CHR. ONO: Well, I wanted it to be for
14 action, because you can still have the discussion with
15 the action, but you need not act on it. We could defer
16 it.
17 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. That's what I was
18 making the motion for. My motion was to discuss these
19 adjusted salaries for -- to adjust --
20 CHR. ONO: Approval.
21 MR. FRATINARDO: -- for approval.
22 MS. SELF: Oh, for approval. Okay.
23 MR. FRATINARDO: So I make that motion again.
24 MS. SELF: Okay.
25 CHR. ONO: Okay. We have Thomas making
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 67
1 the motion, seconded by George.
2 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah.
3 CHR. ONO: And --
4 MR. BRILHANTE: One second, Chair. Let me
5 just make sure that our clerk got that.
6 We got it. Thank you.
7 MR. FRATINARDO: And I have a question for
8 Mr. Brilhante about adjusting salaries.
9 How difficult is it for the Department of
10 Finance or the ladies sitting out in the audience, if
11 we see in the future -- if a department head comes in
12 and requests a change? It can be done -- how difficult
13 is it to adjust like an individual salary?
14 MR. BRILHANTE: That's somewhat of a loaded
15 question, but I will put this forward, that, you know,
16 oftentimes with collective bargaining, you know, say,
17 for example, SHOPO, we'll run through a situation where
18 the contract has expired and we still continue through
19 negotiations. And like I referenced in the SHOPO
20 contract, you know, we just got the arbitration
21 decision a couple weeks ago, and as a matter of fact,
22 yesterday it was just heard from and approved, you
23 know, the cost items were approved in front of County
24 Council, but the effective date of the raises go back
25 to July lst of this year. So, a recalculation and a
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 68
1 readjustment has been made.
2 Of course my staff, you know, from the
3 finance, you know, perspective would appreciate as much
4 lead time as possible, because there's a processing,
5 you know, requirement, but, you know, this commission
6 is able to set the effective date in the future, and it
7 should be, you know, adequately, you know, complied
8 with.
9 MR. FRATINARDO: That answers my question.
10 Thank you.
11 MR. HIGGINS: I have a question. Amy, am I
12 right in saying whatever -- let's say that bottom part,
13 if we agree to vote on it and approve those salaries,
14 whatever we do in that regard, it's set in granite? In
15 other words, nothing can be adjusted if we cannot go
16 back and make this retroactive in July to help the
17 mayor and the current budget? That's all set, right?
18 So everything that we've approved, that's it?
19 MS. SELF: Everything you've approved thus
20 far is already set.
21 MR. HIGGINS: And cannot be adjusted?
22 MS. SELF: Except for the fact -- the reason
23 you can't go back on the other ones is because it's not
24 on the agenda, so you are not able to discuss it. What
25 is on your agenda today is to discuss the ones that you
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 69
1 just made a motion on.
2 MR. HIGGINS: All right. But still, you know,
3 we've got this Aaron Chung, if you remember -- everybody
4 read this memo. -- basically makes a good point
5 about that $42,000 on one of the increases (SEE ATT. G).
6 My question is even if we wanted to, we
7 cannot change that to, say, a 20,000 increase or
8 something that sounds more reasonable? The average
9 person out there that's a taxpayer is going to see that
10 and go, "Oh, my God, that's ridiculous."
11 MS. SELF: We're actually beyond the scope of
12 your motion right now anyway. You cannot -- you can't
13 discuss that today because it's not --
14 MR. HIGGINS: Not on the agenda. If it was
15 on the agenda, could we?
16 MS. SELF: Yes.
17 MR. HIGGINS: Thank you.
18 MS. SELF: You're not precluded from
19 discussing it at a later meeting as long as it's on the
20 agenda.
21 MR. HIGGINS: Thank you.
22 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's been moved and
23 seconded that we approve these positions, the director
24 and deputy of Planning and the director and deputy of
25 Human Resources. We did not -- that we discuss it, and
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 70
1 also add in there that we would also look at setting a
2 effective date for these positions also, whether it be
3 the same date or something else.
4 So with that said, any -- all those in favor?
5 MS. IKEDA: It's not very clear to me.
6 CHR. ONO: What am I doing over here?
7 MR. HIGGINS: In favor of what?
8 CHR. ONO: In favor of approving this as
9 an --
10 MS. SELF: These salaries?
11 CHR. ONO: -- approving these salaries
12 for discussion. I mean, we need to approve it and then
13 we can -- this is not a vote, right? Wait a minute.
14 MR. FRATINARDO: It's already been approved.
15 MS. SELF: You are in discussion.
16 CHR. ONO: We are in discussion. Okay.
17 So, we're fine.
18 Go ahead. We're not voting yet. Nobody
19 called for the question.
20 Okay. We're open for discussion.
21 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chair, you know, I certainly
22 appreciate all the effort you went through to figure
23 out these schedules, but I would feel a lot more
24 comfortable if I could understand how you came about
25 the salaries. In other words, what methodology did you
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 71
1 use
to set the salary? Because all I see,
as far as
2 I'm
concerned, like, for example, Planning
director,
3 all
I see is the 132,000. How did that come
about?
4
CHR. ONO: It matches -- that one
matches
5 the
Public Works director and the deputy --
I mean the
6 DEM.
7 MR. PAVAO: Because it just matches?
8 CHR. ONO: Yeah, it matches.
9 And the rationale is that it is a
10 professional position, requires a professional planner;
11 and as far as the Human Resources and the deputy, the
12 rationale was that it should at least match the Parks
13 Department -- department heads.
14 MR. PAVAO: Okay.
15 CHR. ONO: Okay? But, you know, we're
16 open to discussion, so welcome any discussion as far as
17 anybody's feeling on whether it should be more, less,
18 or otherwise. It's just a discussion point. You know,
19 something that we could start the discussion with.
20 MR. HIGGINS: Can I make a motion to approve
21 those salary recommendations?
22 CHR. ONO: You certainly may.
23 MR. HIGGINS: I do --
24 MS. SELF: There's already a motion on the
25 table.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 72
1 MR. FRATINARDO: Can I say --
2 MR. BRILHANTE: The motion on the floor is to
3 discuss the salary.
4 MS. SELF: But he said and to take action.
5 MR. CAMPBELL: And approve, he said.
6 CHR. ONO: Yeah, he did.
7 MR. FRATINARDO: To approve it. To approve
8 it.
9 MS. SELF: So it's already --
10 MR. HIGGINS: It's already in.
11 MS. SELF: You can call for the question.
12 MR. FRATINARDO: But can I say just one
13 thing? Sorry. When I was a police officer in Waimea,
14 one of the little things that linger in the back of
15 your mind is when you do your job or you're going to
16 get sued. Just for me -- and so you have to be
17 qualified to do your job. Like Mr. Ono just said, you
18 have to have licenses. You have to have understanding
19 of the laws that exist in your state and county and
20 sometimes federal law. So who are the best people to
21 carry out the execution of this position, and are they
22 qualified or are they even overqualified at times?
23 So I look at this position and I see these
24 people are qualified or even overqualified for their
25 job, and they need to be compensated for that. So
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 73
1 that's my opinion.
2 CHR. ONO: Thank you.
3 MR. PAVAO: Comment?
4 CHR. ONO: Mr. Pavao.
5 MR. PAVAO: After looking at this, I mean, I
6 personally feel the Human Resources, you need more
7 qualifications to do that than the Parks director. I
8 don't see why it should be the same. I think Human
9 Resources should be higher.
10 CHR. ONO: Welcome your comment. What
11 would you like to suggest?
12 MR. PAVAO: I don't know. You need a lot of
13 qualifications for being the director of Human
14 Resources, not so much as you need to be director of
15 Parks and Recreation, if that's what you're trying to
16 match it with.
17 MS. IKEDA: There's a motion, right, on the
18 floor at this point. If we don't approve it and then
19 make a motion to defer this to the next meeting, could
20 that be done?
21 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. Well, we would --
22 yeah, that can be done.
23 MS. SELF: Yes, you could -- I think you
24 could make a motion to continue it to -- or table it to
25 the next meeting.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 74
1 MR. HIGGINS: What additional info. would we
2 get by --
3 MR. CAMPBELL: Deferring it?
4 MR. HIGGINS: -- deferring it? Here we go
5 again, folks, kicking the can down the road. What are
6 we going to learn new at another meeting?
7 MR. FRATINARDO: Do we need to wait? Why do
8 we need to wait?
9 CHR. ONO: Florence?
10 MS. SELF: You know, I think -- what I was
11 just discussing with Bill, I think that you're going to
12 have to take care of the motion that's on the table
13 right now, either withdraw it or take a vote. And then
14 if you want to withdraw -- if the person who made the
15 motion wants to withdraw the motion, then you could
16 make a motion to defer this until your next meeting.
17 MR. FRATINARDO: Question: Can we identify
18 one position and then agree to defer that so Mr. Ono
19 can -- or to adjust the salary higher, and then vote on
20 the other positions?
21 CHR. ONO: Split it.
22 MR. FRATINARDO: Can we split it, or do we
23 need to go through another motion to do that?
24 MS. SELF: You can, but you would need to
25 withdraw the motion that is on the table right now,
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 75
1 because it was for all of these. It was for four
2 positions.
3 MR. FRATINARDO: Would that be a -- would
4 that be a better way of doing it?
5 CHR. ONO: I think so.
6 MR. FRATINARDO: We can -- so we're
7 revisit -- to revisit Mr. Brilhante's salary.
8 CHR. ONO: It is not his salary.
9 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. I just want to --
10 MR. FRATINARDO: I apologize. Human
11 Resources.
12 MS. SELF: Position, yes.
13 CHR. ONO: The Chair might suggest that
14 we amend the motion and first split it out. Let's do
15 the Planning Department one first and then handle the
16 Human Resources next. Is that acceptable?
17 MS. IKEDA: The reason that I asked that we
18 defer -- you know, move toward that is because I myself
19 am not sure of what the job descriptions of each one
20 does, so maybe one has more equity than the other, but
21 I would like to take a look at the positions to see,
22 you know, are they equitable, or, you know, is more
23 than the other in their scope of duties?
24 MS. SELF: Chair, if I may, if the Salary
25 Commission wanted to defer this until the next meeting,
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
23 defer.
24 CHR. ONO: I need a motion to defer.
25 MR. PAVAO: So moved.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 76
1
then we could
provide them with the information about
2
what's required -- they do have qualification
3
requirements.
I believe it's set up in the Charter
4
that way. So
then you would have time to look at
5
the --
6
CHR.
ONO: Commission.
7
MR.
FRATINARDO: So, I have to withdraw my
8
motion in order to do that? Defer it?
9
MS.
SELF: Yes, you have to withdraw.
10
MR.
FRATINARDO: Okay. So --
11
CHR.
ONO: That's fine.
12
MR.
FRATINARDO: -- I make a motion to
13
withdraw my --
14
MS.
SELF: You just withdraw your motion.
15
MR.
FRATINARDO: I --
16
CHR.
ONO: So the motion doesn't exist.
17
MR.
FRATINARDO: I withdraw my motion.
18
MS.
SELF: Right. So there's no motion on
19
the table now.
20
CHR.
ONO: So what we will do, defer this
21
item to the next
scheduled meeting?
22
MS.
SELF: You need to make a motion to
23 defer.
24 CHR. ONO: I need a motion to defer.
25 MR. PAVAO: So moved.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 77
1
CHR.
ONO: Milton.
2
MR.
HIGGINS: I would like to make a motion
3
to accept the
recommended pay increases as presented by
4
this schedule.
5
MR.
CAMPBELL: I'll second it. In
6
discussion --
7
CHR.
ONO: I think what we should do is
8
probably -- being that it's more like an original
9
motion, just act
on that original motion. If we get a
10
nay vote out of it, then we defer it, right?
11
MS.
SELF: Okay.
12
MR.
HIGGINS: No, wait. This is going to
13
make us make one move or the other, yeah.
14
MS.
SELF: Okay. So what we have now is the
15
original motion is gone, because it was withdrawn.
16
MR.
HIGGINS: Right.
17
MS.
SELF: Milton made a motion, but there
18
was not a second.
19
MR.
CAMPBELL: Yes, there was.
20
MS.
SELF: For Milton's?
21
MR.
CAMPBELL: Oh, for Milton's.
22
MS.
SELF: So, we're at your motion now.
23
MR.
HIGGINS: Correct.
24
MS.
SELF: And you got a second.
25
MR.
CAMPBELL: Right.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 78
1 MS. SELF: Right. So that's where you're at
2 now.
3
CHR. ONO: It's been moved
and seconded
4
that we adopt the suggested salaries
as shown here on
5
this salary worksheet.
6
MR. FRATINARDO: Discussion.
7
MS. SELF: I'm sorry. For
the minutes, could
8
you mention which positions they are?
9
CHR. ONO: Okay. It's been
moved and
10
seconded that we approve these salaries
for the
11
director of Planning at $132,744, the
deputy Planning
12
director at $126,420, the director of
Human Resources
13
at $128,628, and the deputy director
of Human Resources
14
at $122,628.
15
Open for discussion.
16
MR. CAMPBELL: Call for the
question.
17
CHR. ONO: Hearing none, we
will call for
18 the question.
19 I think we'll do a roll call vote on this.
20 Go ahead. Let's start on this end of the table with
21 Nelson.
22 MR. HARANO: Aye.
23 MR. FRATINARDO: Aye.
24 MR. DOW: Nay.
25 MS. IKEDA: Nay.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 79
1 CHR. ONO: Next, Milton.
2 MR. PAVAO: No.
3 MR. HIGGINS: Aye.
4 MR. CAMPBELL: Aye.
5 CHR. ONO: And the Chair votes Aye.
6 So the vote is 5 to 3 in favor of approving
7 the motion; so the motion is passed.
8 Is there something that we missed?
9 MS. YAMADA: As a "'no" vote, I heard Dr. Dow,
10 Milton Pavao. Was it Ms. Ikeda?
11 CHR. ONO: Yes. That's correct.
12 Okay. No, I think we're finished with that.
13 MS. SELF: Uh-huh.
14 CHR. ONO: Okay.
15 Sorry we can't unanimously agree on this. I
16 would have liked that.
17 The last item we have is an open discussion
18 concerning proposals for Tier 2. And basically what we
19 wanted to do is just to have a discussion of ideas on
20 what should happen as we move forward past these
21 positions into the future years.
22 So, does anybody have any thoughts -- I
23 certainly have a plan that I am willing to put forth on
24 how this can be handled in the future with collective
25 bargaining raises, but go ahead. It's just an open
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 discussion we're having.
2 Yes, Amy?
3 MS. SELF: I'm sorry. Could we go back to
4 the previous item?
5 CHR. ONO: Sure.
6 MS. SELF: Because there was no effective
7 date decided on. Is that correct?
8 CHR. ONO: You're correct; there was no
9 effective date.
10 MS. SELF: Because --
11 MR. FRATINARDO: Who introduced the motion?
12 Who
13
CHR. ONO: Did Mr. Higgins?
14
MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, I made
the motion, and it
15
did not include an effective date; so
I would like to
16
make it consistent with all the other
pay raises.
17
CHR. ONO: It's been moved
for January
18
lst, effective date.
19
MR. CAMPBELL: Second.
20
MR. FRATINARDO: Just one question.
It's not
21
going to confuse the people that are
actually -- will
22
it cause them a lot of pilikia to do
that, being that
23
we're already -- I just want to make
sure it's okay
24 with them.
25 MR. BRILHANTE: As long as the official
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 81
1 action comes to our office and we have ample time,
2 prior notice, then we should be able to process it.
3 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm for it.
4 CHR. ONO: It's been moved and second.
5 It's been moved by Mr. Higgins and seconded by
6 Mr. Campbell that we set the effective date for the
7 previous motion as January 1st, 2018.
8 Discussion?
9 MR. DOW: I have a question. Is effective
10 date and date of implementation the same?
11 CHR. ONO: In my mind, it is.
12 MR. DOW: It is.
13 CHR. ONO: The date that it starts.
14 MR. DOW: You're not going to wait until the
15 changing of fiscal year to actually implement, with it
16 retroactive to January 1st?
17 CHR. ONO: We're open for discussion
18 right now.
19 MR. FRATINARDO: I go back -- I go back to
20 what Deanna Sako told us: The money is there. If the
21 money is not there, then tell us the money is not
22 there; but if the money is there, by all means, we go
23 forward with it.
24 MS. IKEDA: I would like to know if it's
25 sufficient time for the staff, too, because this is at
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 82
1
the end of the
year --
2
MR.
FRATINARDO: I just --
3
MS.
IKEDA: -- January 1st.
4
MS.
SELF: He's checking.
5
MS.
IKEDA: He's going to check.
6
CHR.
ONO: But --
7
MR.
FRATINARDO: But that was the question I
8
asked Mr. Brilhante,
will it cause any pilikia for them
9
to make the actual
--
10
MS.
IKEDA: Yes, because it's at the end of
11
the year, and
they have holidays --
12
MR.
FRATINARDO: Yes, yes.
13
MS.
IKEDA: -- so they won't be working on
14
certain days.
15
MR.
FRATINARDO: That was my question.
16
MR.
PAVAO: Mr. Chair?
17
CHR.
ONO: Yes, Mr. Pavao.
18
MR.
PAVAO: I will be voting no on this
19
motion for the
simple reason that at some time during
20
this meeting,
I'd like to propose an agenda item for
21
next meeting to
review and reconsider some sort of a
22
more palatable
implementation plan instead of January
23
1st. The mayor had some strong concerns. We did give
24
the raises, and
I believe they should have raises, but
25
I think we can
do it in a fashion that is less
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 83
1 burdensome to the County. It may be a pro rata type
2 thing, or it may be a deferral to the new budget year,
3 but some sort of discussion --
4 MS. SELF: Excuse me. I'm sorry, Milton, but
5 this is not on the agenda.
6 MR. PAVAO: No, no. I'm saying I want to
7 propose that we put it on the next agenda.
8 MS. SELF: Oh, okay.
9 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, I realize we can't do it
10 now, but I think an agenda item on the next agenda
11 should be --
12 MS. SELF: This is on B. This is under
13 opportunity to request --
14 MR. PAVAO: No, I'm just trying to explain my
15 reason why I'll be voting no.
16 MS. SELF: Oh, okay.
17 CHR. ONO: Well, we have a motion on the
18 table to set the effective date on January lst, and if
19 we opt not to approve that, then it becomes -- or we
20 can defer it to another time, I guess; but right now,
21 that is the motion, as I understand it, so I believe
22 I'll call for the question at this time.
23 So, the motion is to approve these salary
24 requests as effective January lst, 2018.
25 So, all those in favor. I'll do a roll call
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 vote with Nelson first. Nelson, please.
2 MR. HARANO: Aye.
3 MR. FRATINARDO: Aye.
4 MR. DOW: Nay.
5 CHR. ONO: Florence?
6 MS. IKEDA: Nay.
7 MR. PAVAO: No.
8 MR. HIGGINS: Aye.
9 MR. CAMPBELL: Aye.
10 CHR. ONO: And the Chair votes Aye.
11 Okay. So that these raises right now will
12 take effect -- these revised raises will take effect on
13 January 1st, 2018.
14 Milton, did you want to -- that will be up
15 here.
16 MR. BRILHANTE: Coming up.
17 CHR. ONO: Okay. This open discussion.
18 I think it might be appropriate, being that we have
19 these other ones that we have to take under
20 consideration at the next meeting, why don't we defer
21 this last item, Open Discussion for Tier 2, to the next
22 meeting. Does that make sense? Okay.
23 MR. HIGGINS: Uh-huh.
24 MS. IKEDA: Uh-huh.
25 MS. SELF: So, you need a motion.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 85
1
MR.
BRILHANTE:
You need a motion.
2
CHR.
ONO: I need
a motion.
3
MS.
SELF: To defer.
All those in favor say "Aye."
4
CHR.
ONO: May I
have a motion to defer
5
this to the next
meeting?
6
MS.
IKEDA: I so
move.
7
CHR.
ONO: Okay,
moved.
8
MR.
FRATINARDO:
Seconded.
9
CHR.
ONO: Moved
by Florence and seconded
10
by -- was that
Harold?
25
11
MR.
FRATINARDO:
Tom.
12
CHR. ONO: Tom.
13
That we defer this last item to our next
14
meeting,
whenever that's scheduled.
15
All those in favor say "Aye."
16
(All Commissioners responded affirmatively.)
17
CHR. ONO: All those opposed?
18
Motion is carried.
19
Now this, items to be placed on the next
20
agenda.
21
MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman?
22
CHR. ONO: Mr. Pavao.
23
MR. PAVAO: I would like to propose an
24
item on
the next agenda, and the topic of the item
25
would be
reconsideration of implementation plan of any
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 pay raises already granted or approved.
2 CHR. ONO: Okay. We will place that on
3 the next agenda.
4 MR. PAVAO: Thank you.
5 CHR. ONO: Okay.
6 MS. IKEDA: Mr. Chairman?
7
CHR. ONO: Yes.
Does the Vice -Chair want
to
8
MS. IKEDA: I don't
know if it's appropriate,
9
but, you know, like the mayor
said, that there
is, you
10
know, the funding, but could we
ask Finance to
look
11
into other ways of funding the
positions? For
example,
12
like fines collected, where do
they go to? Do
they go
13
to the general fund? Do they
stay within the
be a
14
department? Can these funds be appropriated for
salary
15
purposes?
It will be in effect
by that
16
CHR. ONO:
Does the Vice -Chair want
to
17
have the Department
of Finance present at the
next
18
meeting?
19
MS. IKEDA:
I guess so.
20
CHR. ONO:
Okay. We'll have that.
21
MS. SELF:
Can we go back to Mr. Pavao's
22
suggested item for the
next agenda? It won't
be a
23
reconsideration; it
will just be up for discussion.
24
MR. CAMPBELL:
It will be in effect
by that
25 time, so you can't take it away.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 87
1 MS. SELF: Yeah, it will already be in
2 effect.
3 MR. PAVAO: You can always revise it. I know
4 it's going to be in effect, because the meeting is
5 going to be after January 1st, right?
6 MS. SELF: Yeah.
7 Is it too late for reconsideration of the
8 motion that set the effective date?
9 MR. FRATINARDO: Mr. Chair, can I just say
10 something?
11 CHR. ONO: There's a discussion going on.
12 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm sorry.
13 MS. SELF: Bill, can you tell everybody?
14 MR. BRILHANTE: I was just explaining to
15 Commissioner Pavao that because there was a previous
16 motion passed, when you use the language of, you know,
17 a motion to reconsider, there's a legal connotation to
18 that, and there are some statutory requirements
19 associated with a reconsideration of a prior approved
20 motion. And, you know, so I was just explaining that,
21 you know, that connotation to Mr. Pavao. And that was
22 the discussion we were having.
23 But he's absolutely correct, as his question
24 is, well, you know, the motion is on the table -- you
25 know, the approval is already on the table, the
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
25 to?
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 88
1
implementation
or start date of the raises is January
2
1st; you are not
going to have a meeting until, you
3
know, anticipated
after January 1st, so how do you go
4
about addressing
that? And that's what his question
5
was to me.
6
And
I think I'm going to defer to the
7
official legal
counsel on the table, Ms. Self.
8
MS.
SELF: Okay. So, I think what the agenda
9
item would be
is to discuss the effective date for the
10
salaries that
were determined at the November 27th,
11
2017 meeting.
12
MR.
PAVAO: No, that cannot be, because at
13
the time of the
meeting -- at the time of our next
14
meeting, those
salaries are already in effect; so it
15
would be a revision.
Because no matter what, during
16
January, they
are going to have to have that share of
17
their raise in
January.
18
MS.
SELF: Yeah, they will already have
19
received it.
20
MR.
PAVAO: So, there's nothing we can do
21
about that. But
we can do something about future --
22
MR.
BRILHANTE: Future.
23
MR.
PAVAO: -- pay raises.
24
MS.
SELF: So, which ones are you referring
25 to?
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1 MR.
PAVAO:
All
of
them.
2 MS.
SELF:
You're
referring to the ones you
3 haven't decided?
4 MR. PAVAO: No, I'm referring to all of them.
5 CHR. ONO: The ones that have been
6 approved already?
7 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, that one last month and
8 this one. All of them.
9 CHR. ONO: I don't think you can do that.
10 It's been acted on.
11 MR. PAVAO: No, I don't think it would be
12 taken away. Example: January, you get the pro rata
13 month's pay for whatever was approved, but in February,
14 should we decide something, it can be different. You
15 can't take away the January one already; that's a done
16 deal.
17 MR. BRILHANTE: That's exactly correct. What
18 happens on January lst, without any future action, you
19 know, taken today, is that the raises are going to be
20 processed, and they will be implemented on January lst.
21 If you have a meeting, it would not actually come into
22 effect until January 15th, because the individual would
23 have to work the first pay period of January, which is
24 the lst through the 15th, and then the effective pay
25 would be, you know, in their paycheck on the 15th. So
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 90
1 that's going forward. You know, at this point in time,
2 there's nothing to change that. There's no action on
3 the table; so legally that can't be amended.
4 So, what Mr. Pavao is proposing, I'm
5 assuming -- and please correct me if I'm misstating
6 your desire -- that he would like to, at the next
7 meeting, have a discussion regarding a revision to the
8 implementation of the pay, but the pay will already be
9 implemented.
10 MR. PAVAO: Right.
11 MR. BRILHANTE: So, going forward, what would
12 then happen is if this Board decides to change the
13 effective date of the originally approved pay raises,
14 then we would have to set a date, and at that next
15 date, it would be an adjustment in the pay.
16 MR. PAVAO: Either a date or method of
17 payment, you know, like a pro rata method or something.
18 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. However, you know, you
19 go about doing that, they will actually -- the effect
20 of that action would be an adjustment in the pay of the
21 affected individuals.
22 MR. PAVAO: Yeah.
23 CHR. ONO: I see nothing wrong with that.
24 It's just whether, as a commission as a whole, we vote
25 to do that or not.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 91
1 So, I don't have any objection to putting that
2 as an agenda item for the next meeting.
3 MR. PAVAO: Thank you.
4 CHR. ONO: As well as having the Finance
5 Department here, right?
6 Okay. Any other items for the next meeting?
7 If not, let's look at a meeting date for the next
8 meeting. Can we go either January -- Wednesday,
9 January 24th or Wednesday, January 31st?
10 MS. IKEDA: I can't come the last week of
11 January.
12 CHR. ONO: Is the 24th okay?
13 MS. IKEDA: 24th is fine for me. I don't
14 know about the rest of them.
15 MR. CAMPBELL: 24th doesn't work for me.
16 MR. BRILHANTE: Just for the record, January
17 24th we would be conflicting with a council meeting,
18 but it's set for Kona, so we're going to see if they
19 use this room --
20 MR. CAMPBELL: They use this room.
21 MR. BRILHANTE: -- use a different room.
22 Glynis is looking -- the assistant is looking
23 to see if January 31st this room will be available.
24 CHR. ONO: Okay.
25 What was the availability of the
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 92
1 commissioners on this -- George, did you say --
2 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm okay on the 31st but not
3 on the 24th.
4 MS. SELF: Glynis, does it have to be this
5 room?
6 MS. YAMADA: I guess, because of the amount
7 of people --
8 CHR. ONO: It may not be the 24th or the
9 31st.
10 MS. IKEDA: Yeah, I can't make it.
11 MS. YAMADA: I could secure other rooms, but
12 I would have to check with the other departments.
13 CHR. ONO: Let's look at our calendars
14 again.
15
17th?
16
MR. BRILHANTE:
We have a --
17
MR. CAMPBELL:
17th works for me.
18
MR. BRILHANTE:
We already have a Merit
19
Appeals Board meeting.
20
MR. FRATINARDO:
Mr. Chair, I have a
21
question. When does the
issue of voting for a new
22
Chair and a Vice -Chair come
up?
23
MR. CAMPBELL:
Next meeting.
24
CHR. ONO: I'm
sorry, I don't know the
25 answer to that question, Tom.
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Page 93
1 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, and not to --
2 CHR. ONO: No, no, no.
3 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, just wondering --
4 because it's a new calendar year. I was just
5 wondering, does it happen in a new calendar year?
6 CHR. ONO: Good question for Amy.
7 MS. SELF: I'm looking at the Rules right
8 now.
9 CHR. ONO: But, in the meantime, while Amy
10 is looking at that, looking for a date. 17th does not
11 work. It needs to be on a Wednesday?
12 MS. IKEDA: No. Any day is fine for me.
13 MR. HIGGINS: Not for me. Can be any day.
14 MS. IKEDA: Yeah.
15 MR. BRILHANTE: Mr. Chair, I just conferred
16 with our staff, and if we set the meeting for January
17 31st, we can make the location to be determined, so we
18 could --
19 MS. IKEDA: Yeah, I --
20 CHR. ONO: Florence is not here.
21 MR. BRILHANTE: I take that back.
22 CHR. ONO: I would like the Vice -Chair to
23 be at the meeting. She has items of interest to her.
24 MR. CAMPBELL: How about the 18th or the
25 25th?
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
Page 94
MS. IKEDA: I can't make it on the 25th.
CHR. ONO: 18th?
MR. HIGGINS: 18th is good for me.
CHR. ONO: 18th? Okay, looking at 18th.
And the site to be determined by the Department of
Human Services.
Okay. The meeting will be here on the 18th.
MR. HIGGINS: 18th.
MS. IKEDA: 10:00 a.m.
MR. HIGGINS: Very good.
CHR. ONO: Yeah, 10:00 a.m. I think we
should be able to get through that.
Starting time. Do you want to start earlier?
What is the feeling of the commission?
MS. IKEDA: It's up to them.
CHR. ONO: You know what happens. The
testimonies take quite a bit of time.
MR. PAVAO: 10:00 a.m. works fine for me
because of the traffic.
MR. CAMPBELL: 10:00 is good coming from the
other side.
CHR. ONO: This isn't too bad. We're
23 only 15 minutes over.
24 Okay. So it will be January 18th in this
25 County Council Room at 10:00 a.m. Okay?
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 95
With that, I entertain a motion to adjourn.
MS. IKEDA: I so move.
CHR. ONO: Moved --
MR. PAVAO: Second.
CHR. ONO: Moved by Florence, seconded by
Milton that we adjourn.
All those in favor say "Aye."
(All Commissioners responded affirmatively.)
CHR. ONO: And off the record.
(The meeting concluded at 12:16 p.m.)
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
STATE OF HAWAII
ss.
COUNTY OF HAWAII
Page 96
I, TERI HOSKINS, a certified court
reporter in the State of Hawaii, do hereby certify
that the foregoing pages are a true and correct
transcription of the proceedings in the above matter.
Dated this 28th day of December, 2017.
Tj/i ;K-osAitd, CSR No. 452
ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES
(808) 933-9800
Ms. Teri Hoskins, Certified Court Reporter, transcribed the aforementioned proceedings of the
Salary Commission at its meeting held on December 21, 2017.
Glynis Yamada, Secretary, Salary Commission, had incorporated some minor
formatting/housekeeping revisions throughout the transcript. (Note: Also present at the meeting
were: J Yoshimoto, Craig Masuda, Renee Schoen, John Callahan, William Takaba,
Sidney Fuke, Susan Lee Loy, and Abraham Sadegh.)
Respectfully Submitted,
/Arid i
Glynis Yamada, Secretary
APPROVED:
1101101
Hugh Y. Ono, P. E., Chair
Salary Commission
PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM
SALARY COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HILO, HAWAII
Date: /-2A / 7/ 7 (Please print clearly) Support
Oppose
Comment
Please list the item(s) you will be speaking on:
Communication No. // OR 4---e
Subject/Topic: (`4 4 � 'l `��'`��-� =� 2�- �y /
Z
Name: C,ct,f(cthavi �l
v��'�
Representing: / a �'� i%i 641-/i2-07 7)e-e--A-6
,tom-�✓ � ( o-i (,.se indicate whether Self or Organization) otic
***For official use only: Speaker No.
IF
PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM
SALARY COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HILO, HAWAII
Date: 2� 1 (Please print clearly) Support
Oppose
Comment
Please list the item(s) you will be speaking on:
Communication No. OR
Subject/Topic: IA Qi Od C up V 1 i d
(wiilra n Takaba) (s1'dtey F tke,)
PIJ L tC 1—/ ,c / 1°N
Name: ,
I, �✓
Representing: 3bi' "5
(Please indicate whether Self or Organization)
***For official use only: Speaker No. is
w
PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM
SALARY COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HILO,HAWAII
Date: �` oZ \i\ (Please print clearly) Support
Oppose
Comment
Please list the item(s) you will be speaking on:
Communication No. OR
Subject/Topic: C1\-Q..3,02;1. \
4: .&Name:
Representing:
Please indicate whether Self or Organization)
***For official use only: Speaker No. d
PUBLIC STATEMENT REGISTRATION FORM
SALARY COMMISSION
COUNTY OF HAWAII
HILO,HAWAII
Date: !,4 • 1,eQ , 211 2617 (Please print clearly) Support
Oppose
Comment
Please list the item(s) you will be speaking on:
Communication No. OR
Subject/Topic: Sa larit S
Name: n 4 a si t rn Mr. !' 401 Ssdej
Representing: Thy tih;;i+rsa I Res im al e Lep•- ,r4/snj 4 ,-y
'se indicate whether Self or Organization) /
***For official use only: Speaker No. re
William Takaba
1200 Malawaina Place • Hilo, HI 96720 • home: (808) 959-6785 • Cell: (808) 339-1830
December 21, 2017
Honorable Hugh Ono, Chair
Hawaii County Salary Commission
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, HI 96720
TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM TAKABA
RE: LIQUOR CONTROL DIRECTOR
Chair Ono and Members of the Hawaii County Salary Commission:
Good morning. My name is William Takaba, former Finance Director, Managing Director,
and current Chair of the Liquor Commission. With me is Sidney Fuke, former Planning
Director and Chair of the Liquor Control Adjudication Board.
Thank you all for serving on this very important Salary Commission, and for taking on the
task of ensuring that elected officials and top administrators in Hawaii County are fairly
compensated—where salaries and benefits have a reasonable relationship to the public and
private sectors. When we speak of the public sector, it should include, besides Hawaii
County, other jurisdictions in the state.
We are here this morning, as private individuals, to provide testimony on the salary of
Hawaii County's Liquor Control Director. The Liquor Control Director("Director") heads
the department that is responsible for the regulation and control of the importation,
manufacture, sale, and service of alcoholic beverages through the enforcement of liquor laws
and rules.
The Department of Liquor Control ("Department") derives its funds through its own sources
and is responsible for not only the collection, but the budgeting and administration of those
funds, similar to the Department of Water Supply. No county tax revenues are used to fund
the Department or its operations. It has a budget of about$2 million.
The Department provides staff and other support to the Liquor Commission and Liquor
Control Adjudication Board. The Director is appointed and evaluated by the Liquor
Commission.
As members of the Liquor Commission and Liquor Control Adjudication Board for many
years, we know that the best qualified director must have a clear understanding of how laws
and rules are administered, and can make sound decisions based on this understanding. The
Director must be able to work with its 400 licensees and the general public to make sure that
laws are fairly and efficiently applied.
Although not a requirement, 5 of the 8 top Liquor Control administrators in this state have
law degrees, including Hawaii County's Director, Gerald Takase and his Administrative
Officer, Brandon Gonzalez. This pretty much speaks to the complexity of the work of
Liquor Control directors statewide.
ATT. A
Hugh Ono,Chair and Members of the
Hawaii County Salary Commission
Page 2
December 21,2017
The current salary of the Liquor Control Director is $99,000 per year, far lower than his
counterparts with similar responsibilities on other islands:
Honolulu Liquor Control Administrator $153,000
Maui Liquor Control Director $132,000
Kauai Liquor Control Director $109,000
The Director in Hawaii County earns $10,000 per year less than his counterpart on Kauai,
even though his service area is over 7 times larger, his budget is 2 times bigger, and the
number of licensees that he serves and regulates is twice as large.
We wholeheartedly subscribe to the idea that bosses should not be paid less than their
subordinates. However, consideration should be given not only to how much the highest
paid employee in the department is making, but also how much an employee in the
department can potentially earn.
In the case of the Liquor Department, the Administrative Officer, as an EM-03, can earn up
to $127,284, which is far more than what the Director earns. Had the previous
Administrative Officer not retired last year, his pay would have been very close to the
Director's. But because he retired, the Director's ability to receive the salary increase he
deserves is somewhat diminished. This is a situation where timing and coincidence often
become factors in how much an administrator earns.
In conclusion, we suggest that in determining the salary of Hawaii County's Liquor Control
Director, consideration be given to the following:
• The complexity of the work the Director must perform;
• How the Director's current salary compares to the salaries of directors in other
jurisdictions;
• The amount the highest paid employee in the department can potentially earn;
• Based on the above, increasing the Director's salary to at least $115,000 per year and
for the future, working with the Liquor Commission when setting the salary of the
Director; and
• Scheduling pay adjustments for elected officials and top administrators on the same
frequency as civil service employees to avoid getting into similar pay inequities in the
future.
Thank you for this opportunity to testify on this very important matter.
Sincerely yours,
William Takaba
TESTIMONY BEFORE THE HAWAII COUNTY SALARY COMMISSION
SIDNEY M. FUKE
December 21, 2017
Good morning Chair and members of this Commission. I would like to
initially clarify that we are testifying here not as representatives of the Liquor
Commission or Liquor Adjudication Board but as individuals and citizens of this
County. Although testifying as individuals, we would appreciate your taking into
consideration the experience and insights welhave gained as Chair of those
respective bodies.
Albeit somewhat redundant of Bill's testimony, I would like to highlight
certain facts for your consideration.
1. Approximate Budget and Number of Licensees of All Four Counties
• County of Kauai - $1,000,000; 200 licensees
• County of Hawaii — $2,000,000; 400 licensees
• County of Maui - $4,000,000; 400 licensees
• City and County of Honolulu - $10,000,000; 2,000 licensees
In terms of number of licensees, Hawaii is comparable to the Maui. The
budget of Maui is larger, however, due in part to varying fees, assessments
and the like, as well as higher operating expenses in having to service the
three island county.
2. Functions and Roles of Director of All Four Counties
• Kauai and Honolulu counties have only one body (Commission) that
issues licenses and adjudicate on violations.
• Maui and Hawaii counties have two bodies to handle those tasks
(Commission and Adjudication Board)
ATT. B
While it may seem to be more efficient and less costly to have only one
body, the approach as reflected in the charters of Maui and Hawai'i
counties is to have two bodies. In so doing, the framers of our charter— as
ratified our citizens — believed that there would be greater impartiality in
dispensing justice, inasmuch as the Adjudication Board is like an Appeals
Board or your court.
Relative to salary, the point here is that like Maui County, Hawai'i's Liquor
Director must administer two instead of one board or commission.
3. Organizational Setback of All Four Counties
• Maui and Honolulu counties have a Director and Deputy Director
• Kauai and Hawai'i counties do NOT have a Deputy Director.
Maui, with its 400 licensees, has a Deputy. Hawaii does not. Almost all
departments in Hawai'i County have a deputy, including the Planning
Department which administers commissions and an appeals board. The
absence of a deputy translates to greater burden on the director.
4. Salary
• Honolulu - $153,000
• Maui - $132,000
• Kauai - $109,000
• Hawaii - $99,000
In conclusion, given the above, a reasonable salary should be more than
Kauai ($109,000) and closer to Maui ($132,000). However, considering action
already taken by the Commission, I believe that it should be comparable to the
Planning Director. Thank you very much.
Hany Kim 'air os . William V.Brithante,Jr.
Mayor ckk • ••yr, Acting Director pitman Resources
� 'N.:4;':/;:71.1
/i/f 7 w':
O • =n
V �O
z 3�
County of Hawai`i
Department of Human Resources
Aupuni Center.101 Pauahi Street,Suite 2.Hilo,Hawaii 96720. (808)961-8361+Fax(808)961-8617 n^^
website:http://finwaiftounty.gm/hiunan-resources e-mail jobs@hawaiicourtty.gov J D
rn D
W 07—
TO: Hugh Y. Ono, P.E., Chair
and Salary Commission Members
FROM: William Brilhante, Jr., Acting Director of Human Resources
DATE: November 30, 2017
RE: Approved Salary Increases with Payroll Adjustments and
Total Cost of Increases
Attached is the updated spreadsheet of the salary increases approved by the Salary
Commission at the November 27, 2017 meeting effective January 1, 2018. Our office
made a few adjustments to the proposed salaries in order for the annual salaries to
divide evenly into 24 pay periods. The new salaries are reflected in column 11 of the
spreadsheet.
Column 12 is the amount of the increase for each position, with the total amount of
annual increases at $492,312. Total cost for the remainder of Fiscal Year 17-18 will be
$246,156.
cc: Harry Kim, Mayor
Deanna Sako, Finance Director
ATT. C
Hawaii County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employer.
St cw (0o+ cm coW ma cw a c 5
(0 cp m cwm cm Nv cwm
¢a v v v o v v v p o v v c o pw8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
I. .0 .0 .0 a a .0 .0 0 a 0 .0 .0 .0 .0 A m
In In In In uni in in vs an ul in us in an of
u 2 `w 3 v 2 a 3 m 2 d 2 d 3 2 2
8 ( o ( 8 v 'o ( o 7 o' 4 8 > j 2
* Io i v az o•:R v v be o f a a ar
N 10np SQQ
W M W N W f0nW LA W . W Opp pWI W
ppE4 A 0c�p �qO
0 01 Ut 05 d O5 O O5 0) 04 'O p 40 a 0 M N T O Mg )0 O M O .r-1 rc N--
14 t H N 'N 04 .i a1 W 00
r4 14 NN .i N .i O uai 00 N N W
N N CO 04 0I N 04 Y N N N V Q (V M Al CA 0 NJ E c
a - pp
h" W N 0 h VC 0 .4 1.0 hh 0 00 00 ry CO I00 1.0.A h N 01 00 00
ry 40 r m
2 h .. N 10 N 10 00 N h ' M'VI N' .N(O�1 M IA an yoInn VI ii 00
ON 8 CO ti N H .N-1 A g N Ni N N .M. eal N .� H N e41 3 .I N 01 .-1
rri T a 0 04 .4
5 O >.1 C C W
O _
A ,
a } 1-1 C
. LL
a
OO N 00 010 00 00 00 ppp 00 8 �f N 00 oA 00 pN ( p3 tO N C 00j 0
Z n �i�i-, n 00 by CCO eh a0 hy CO 0D M n a0 n a .y ,A . 0, " E,
2 c.3 EN H N N 1. N V 1n VI N VI an N V?in.n N N an an C - O To
Q U 8 E 15
r1- 1-O 1t 1-
Q 212
00 00 T A h IN h N N h N CO 0 CA CO CO h N h N CA 00 N h N
C 0 01 Al 00 In 00 V1 anIC 0. A I CO .A CO00 CO00 N in M 10 0 Z M in h M M M M In MI M M an M u1
al n oy a ai si a 0 ai �a r al 0i r'v an am a In aaio
Q W E r-1 1-1 .1 Z .-1 . . N .0. 'i n1 (4 .I N h ti .4
1.1 N N N N an an In N N V/N 0 N an Vl N an u<
2_
oCO o IN 01 pop po
W ''aNpp100 J 0O AlO01 OO
-
M CO 0 LA 1L, A h D N MM NM .1
CI_ a A CO 2 21 of ui .4 od 1; a oo u o ti 'a of un un on el ui
.MI CO CA N N h M 0 40 CCA N ti .M1 VI d ., M
8 E w ., n .. .y ti h 10 .+ .1
N 0 N N an an VI N VI VI VI N VI VI VI N N N N 0
W 49
IA" 0CC)
COpp �sp{ 10pp j a0 CO
C 10 0 - N 0 n O 01 � N IN0 0 CO N CA 0l N N O. N 0000 cn N Oai
i 0440O N N .4 (0 00 N rN .4 M Vi N 10 (n In(.1 10 an u1
on
n W >a 1-4 h M .Y O rst h .N-. .1-1 NVS I H P•I .0,1 V l-1 'CT.1.1 .MY N h V
W N 0 > N N VI N H 0 N VI N VI VI Vl In N N VI O N VI VI
W
W • z
_ 1-
1.11
Oz ..i � rv � � � rvry � I00o `� � 0 g 4 8
LY tD , p W v v .I 010 0 01 N tV In a CO h m a
ce N N N 10 40 al N .4 rI IA un 10 (0 p z t0 N n Z
05 0 , 0
O .1 .. . .v. N-1 cO 0 is,
N 0
Nm WI%Z
N N VI N VI Vf N Vi N N N VI N VI VI V)V1 V)
Ce
U
gu1 0 - a a a a a a a a a a a a a a m m CO m CO CO
Q Ftd
H v . .(pA.QO
Q w N iOQQn Q�Q O t��11'' pOp11" alN�{{ O pNp CO CO0N NN NCO0pW all Ot
`a COCC
uS an r4
O O �O O Ol a1 01 01 a\ O1 M ‘, 28 ,-98 In N .'1 N
R a O es .y .1 N VI an N an V1 an N H N n1 .1 .i .-1 y .
. 1
l..1 VI N VI VI VI VI VI N VI N VI N V)Ut
00
C
5
a ...2N N
aEEuwoo 00 c ` c c O0 ,:ozw Fr c '1Li - ._ .u- 33 o1Su
to cs
' 2A „ - ann LLWa0¢ c c " , & nc
w w
E E0 s t00- 0 ..1 v0 0 0
0
S 2 0. o.
0
ec an
W Ln
ill W z
.E V
H Z j K 00 a
N O o p ¢ u O U.
v1 - w O 00 O Z K z
N o W W O Z o a
1= z 02 � 0ZZ v1z zUu, UVI08 Z W
In > z < a a ` , Z z O li 0 .0 Z000 n a •n
a ¢
..,.. > < < a ..1
Lu
z Z = = a Q 5 5 o Q 0 a p o LL - u a
_ u a
Q z n oc Cl a Cl. z a , a W a w a or /` W a O 0
W W W W 1.1J21.0 .,.. 100 = 0.
O 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 V V O a a
a a a a a a a s a a a a a
ZZ ZZZ Z ZZ
Z Z Z Z Z Z
Z 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 r 0 0 o O y j o 0
r., VI VI VI VI N N N VI j .A LA W .�/AI N J j IA W
VI 141
G W W W W W Z Z W W < 11( w W 10 < C( 10
2 000000 0 0 .:-.)
W 0 0 0 O W W O 0
LL O. a a a a n a a 0 n N us 0. 6 6 0 us IA a 0.
N O O v
2 w w c o 2
11311 ^v 0 0 0H.
H
o Q O
c,
tn
O v a N ,n o co a, co co coNo CON co
Z W 1 N O z 0 ^ 00 I- CO 00 00
•• _2 �n o in o I 00 00 00 06 00 00
O a a Cr Cr
to v u a ^ .1O-� .-vii n u a .. .. .. .. ..
O. IS cel E v,..n v. "'"' o� E yr.n ti an yr N
M 0 V U V U
N «
0 Co p, N O h
C 8 R O w 00 0 CO aO _ M CO CO U) CO
'a+ T @ i� Lr, 111 M vl
CU t a 0 O N 2 M M vl W W N 0 0O 2 m -1 .a. Z - .a.
Ol a -E. " o E CT z .. . v`Di oo oo 0 E yr N N z on.AA
—J N b O V O Vr N N Vr Vr '4 Vr N yr Q U O
> C C 0 V = V
._ 'y' c 00 - 0 a, N iD O Vt L!1 N 101 j v N CO N O W
L _ V O T ^ Lf1 Ol O N I� M J m E ^ co V, n , l0
H W
•O J a i N N I� O N lD N N T a C5 O .--� N .a-I` N r-.1
N ^ a
> 00 Q .�. .a. .N. -r-i 00 ^ .M. .i =- 2 a .M-. :. ) ,-. 00 ..
E ''''• o '" o E .n.n+n .n `""' -vr v. o o E yr.n.n yr.n.n
O �= ` V O V O
O C O C .. u O. V
LL c 'N
N.E a O > O a „ 00 00 00 0 0 0 00 7 0 > O 00 co
z 3 E m y Lu cc 0o - •+ o "r v v v ° ¢ ni oo rwi
o 2 o
O > « c o n l7 .n .N.•.N. .. Q lw7 a .. .. .. N ,
W = O l7 Vl V' Vl V� VN 0 Vl to Vr Vr T .n Vr Vr an Va, Val
QC `
.• a d o vl z o ✓l
ce '00 ••• w _ _ - _ _ 'j
O .� r- v o a o a o a
LL E v w O z o o 10 a s 00 L0 a D 00 oo 00 co O N
Z a 0 19 i ' up a woo ¢ ¢ ¢ ¢ ¢ ¢ m o o ^ , o > 0 rn rn rn m m H-
Z
W L O J Q 0 ai.�-i Z Z Z Z Z Z _ Qi ,D m m C > Vr Vr.n Vr Vr Vr
0 �v n '^ a
0
t- a00 > t
W c ..k.' .n u0 = u
F- o Ln m u v u V u u u u u u u u u a mO cd. 4 4 ¢ 4 ¢ 4
F a t c w a a
N c
°' m z o a co 0 o a m cc o 0 0 o a w °,°
o iz o 0 0 0 o 00 0 0 0 0 0 0 00 a oo a ro
O O O O O N o o 0 0 0 0 N I
W . N . t•. cc M N Oi Oi 0, Lel 01 0, O, Ol Q, Y r O ^. .-. ti N O ti
W N d •-• `"• .. N N V r V r N V r V r V r V r N 6'. K > 0 VT V}V r VT V i V}
Tr u Vn V.+n O ¢ O N
= > 3 gid .
N a s Q
O CC v "3 .. ¢ a
o vl
C.. N >
., n o ..
to no c
0; z 2 = = 2 2 2 2 2 c o a 0 0 Z C C N T. Y Y
J M 2 3 v v l0 COJ V 3 0 v = 06 02i
, „ c c z cc m m
Q H 0 0 cc H ro mi c c a a
V1 cC o Q ¢ a s
a c = a E
0 o 2 2
>
U
cc Z cc
0 w al
E z co 2 > 0 u K
cc
~ O a > 00 O r 00 0 ° 0 I- O 0 O
N z c Z u Y Z = l07 o� _ = z c O O U Lu
O cc
O Z a 0 cc w Ou z Zo 0u 0 .n ¢ a .n Z Z ¢ ¢ Y y
O r Z Z } 2 u ¢ Cl O vl Oa ¢ 4 ...,,z_ C
a 0 Q 2 Z O m Z _. 2 cc ¢ ¢ a d 2 2 d a
Q Q a O a ¢ cc"tC a val a a a a a
2 2 0 U a o u 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Z Z Z Z Z
> > > > > z ZZZZ
z 00 > r z 0000
a-I CD I- a c H H w J J _ 0 www w
� zZz ¢i¢ ZZ ZZ
Z W W W W W o w w z L.L. I.L. 0 0 2
D 00 0 = a a. 0.0 DcC cc cc cc o 0
SALARY COMMISSION -October 2017-June 2018
EXECUTION PLAN
DESCRIPTION OF ELEMENT: I DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: ITIME ALLOWED:I DATE COMPLETED: I REMARKS:
PROCEDURE PHASE:
OIP BRIEFING: Do's and Don't's 10/27/2017
COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL: Briefing and Discussion on How and Why? _ 10/27/2017 As req by DHR
MEETING SITES: Discuss Hilo Only or Other Locations? 10/27/2017 Future Mtg in Kona
EXECUTION PLAN Discuss and adopt. 10/27/2017 TB used as a Guide
TIME&SCHEDULE: Agree on a scheduled competion date: ASAP 2 parts-Now and Later
By PIG(Permitted Interaction Group)or 10/27/2017 No
MISCELLANEOUS: By Entire Salary Commission? 10/27/2017 Yes
DISCOVERY PHASE:
COUNTY CHARTER: What the Charter says? 10/27/2017
HAWAII REVISED STATUTES: What the HRS says? 10/27/2017
PROBLEM IDENTIFICATION: Identify the problem and where occurs? On-going
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING: Identify Impacts if any? 10/27/2017 Agreement thru 2019
EXCLUDED MANAGEMENT: Identify details,impacts,etc.? 11/27/2017
Listing by Deparment&Levels 11/27/2017
CURRENT SALARIES: Identify Inversions? 11/27/2017
Date of Latest Changes: 11/27/2017
PAST SALARY COMMISSIONS: See what previous to include DWS did? 11/27/2017
Impact of Overtime by Subordinates? 11/27/2017
MISCELLANEOUS: Respect from Subordinates making more? 11/27/2017
Any other factors? 11/27/2017
By 12/31/2017
DEVELOP OUR CRITERIA:
METHODOLOGY: Open discussion on various approaches. 11/27/2017
Identify preferred criteria? 11/27/2017
PRIORITY BY POSITIONS: Determine All or Separately? 11/27/2017
SALARY PERIOD: One time or able to adapt to future changes? 11/27/2017 In 2 Steps-Tier I&II
CRITERIA: Identify Quantitative Difference being sought? 11/27/2017
_Identify Intent and Impact being sought? 11/27/2017 Comparable,Fair&Equitable
PROBLEMS 8c CHALLENGES: Identify Potential problems? 11/27/2017
Identify Potential Challenges? 11/27/2017
FINANCIAL COST IMPACTS: Identify cost to the County of Hawaii? On-going
By 1/15/2018
ALTERNATIVE ANALYSIS:
SALARY SETTING: Set by Commission established criteria. On Agenda
Utilization of Pay Schedules in Existence? On Agenda
EFFECTIVE DATE: Determine date and if Retro-active or not? 11/27/2017
SHORT LISTING ALTERNATIVES: Determine preferred alternatives? 11/27/2017
FINAL ANALYSIS SELECTION: Determine final selection. On Agenda
By 5/15/2018
ADOPTION:
VOTING PROCEDURE: Identify that procedure. On-going
FINAL ADOPTION: Final Vote On-going
By 6/30/2018
ATT. E
TALKING PAPER:
SALARY COMMISSION ACTION LEADING TO:
APPROVED SALARY CHANGES OF: MONDAY, NOVEMBER 27, 2017
ACTION OCCURRING: DESCRIPTION OF ACTIONS: COMMENTS OR NOTES:
* Quorum Finally in place * Effort to fill vacancies since February 2017.
* 1st Salary Commission Meeting w/Quorum
*Wednesday,October 11,2017 * Hugh Ono&Florence Ikeda elected Chair and Vice Chair
respectively.
EVENTS LEADING: * Friday,October 27,2017 *2nd Meeting-Testimony received;Informational Briefing by HR&
Corp Counsel.
* Monday,November 27,2017 * Discussion on Proposed Salary adjustments.
*Approval of Priority A&B Position Salary Adjustments.
*Thursday, December 21,2017 *Next Salary Commission Meeting.
*What State Law Says? *As briefed by the Corporation Counsel.
LAW BACKGROUND: *Section 13-28:says"shall have a reasonable relationship to
*What the County Charter Says?
compensation in the public and private sectors".
* * Include:Elected,Appointed Department Heads and Deputies.
36 Positions under this Commission
*Current Salaries as of now available to * Includes: Inversions as well as none earn Overtime.
Commission.
* Positions that are Salary Inverted. * Identified:By Position,%of Inversion w/o Overtime Pay
* * Recruitment at these levels negatively affected by"no interest".
Positions w/Salary Inversions affected.
Particularly"Police"and"Fire"Departments.
*Salaries of Private Sector Equivalent *Provided to the Salary Commission.
FACTS: Positions.
*Salaries of other County Counter Parts *Provided to the Salary Commission.
*Salary Information of Collective *As provided by County of Hawaii Department of Human Resources.
Bargaining&Excluded Management
Positions provided.
* Regularly work long hours(well over 50-60 hrs per week)in the
name of professionalism.
*Testimony by Some *Great Training for less experienced,and a"great loss"to the
County of Hawaii when they leave because of the poor salaries.
*A-Inversions; B-Long Time w/o any Salary Increase;C-Must be
* Priority Established
addressed next.
*Tier I-Need immediate attention to correct inversion and other
deficiencies.
*Commission decides: Tier I&II *Tier II-Need to address changes to these Salaries as changes to
Collective Bargaining and Excluded Management occur in the future.
ACTIONS TAKEN:
* Director testifies that once Salary Commission decides,that is
considered final.
*County of Hawaii Finance
*County of Hawaii has obligation to"make the pay adjustments by
adjusting the operating budget.
*Call Nancy Mahoney @ 896-2266-Public * By H.Ono on 12/2/17;Satisfied with explanation.
Inquiry.
APPROVAL: *Salary Increases Approved. *6-2 Vote for Priority A&B Positions.
* Effective Date Approved. *8-0 Vote,effective date: January 1,2018.
ATT. F
Aaron S. Y. Chung °M���F��"+ Phone No.: (808)961-8272
• �y6il
Council Member �'�� Fax No.: (808 961-8912
aaron.chung@hawaiicounly.gov
District 2 South Hilo .:����'�.��:► )
_ ,,�,_
HAWAII COUNTY COUNCIL
County of Hawai`i
Hawai`i County Building
25 Aupuni Street
Hilo, Hawaii 96720
Date: December 20, 2017
To: Hugh Ono, Chair
Florence Ikeda, Vice-Chair
And Members of the County of Hawai`i Salary Commission
Subject: Salary Increases for Department Directors and Deputy Directors
Please accept this written testimony regarding the pay raises for department heads approved by
your commission on November 27. I would have preferred to appear before you in person but
will be off island when you convene your December 21 meeting.
I sincerely respect the hard work and thought that all of you put into framing a salary
arrangement for department heads and deputies which conforms to the guiding principles
contained in the Hawai`i County Charter—which is to establish the pay for those employees by
examining their relationship to compensation in the public and private sector. However, as a
Hawai`i County council member, I have a duty to look after the broader interests of the county,
and in that regard, I will say that some of the raises decided upon by the commission are way too
high, the length of time since the last raises notwithstanding.
Before going further, and just so that all of you have a full understanding of where I'm coming
from, let me say that over my eleven years on the council, I have been a staunch and vocal
supporter of fair compensation to all of our employees. About two months ago, I introduced a
resolution urging an increase in the pay for Fire Department battalion chiefs. Two weeks ago, I
suggested, as I have for many years,that we should consider allowing department heads and
deputies to earn overtime. Going back much further, I would often criticize those on the council
who were consistently opposed to approving the recommendations of the salary commission, by
saying: "You say it's not the right time for raises when the economy is good, and not the right
time when it is bad. Then, when is it the right time!?" Indeed, the roadblocks put up at the
council level back then were the primary impetus for the voters of our island approving a charter
amendment which put the sole responsibility for setting certain county salaries with the salary
commission.
Having said that, let me discuss some of my concerns. First, although the commission is not
required to consider external factors, such as the county budget, it does not mean that they must
ATT. G
Hawai`i County Is An Equal Opportunity Provider And Employer
December 20,2017
Salary Commission
Page 2
ignore those factors altogether. In other words, the salary-setting process should not be done in a
vacuum. The reason is simple: The determination made by the commission is final and binding.
There is no further approval process. There is also no appeals process. Very few decisions made
by government carry that level of binding authority.
Some of the things which the commission might consider are that:
1. The county just raised property taxes effective this current fiscal year. It was necessitated
by several high ticket operational costs, including but not limited to salary and health
fund increases. This coming fiscal year, we are looking at paying more in union
negotiated salary increases, with that of police officers coming immediately to mind. The
raises for department heads and deputies, and possibly those for elected officials, will
further increase our budget by close to a million dollars;
2. The commission should not feel compelled to play salary catch-up. If prior salary
commissions saw fit not to increase particular salaries, some degree of deference to their
decisions should be taken into consideration;
3. There has been no showing that the current salaries are a factor which limits the available
pool of qualified applicants for department head jobs. I am not aware of either the mayor
or the council chair urging for increases in salaries on that basis.
4. The huge increases for some of the department heads and deputies, one year into their
term, is, quite frankly, discourteous to those that just left their positions under the
previous administration and did a fine job over a longer period of time.
5. The morale of our rank and file employees is vitally important. County government is a
service organization. In that regard, our employees are our most important resource. It is
difficult to explain to them a$42,000 raise for one individual. And believe me, we have
had to explain that to a large number of people. I would guess that many of our full-time
employees make less a year than the amount of that raise.
I humbly suggest that you modify your decision. No one I know of is against reasonable pay
increases for workers. However, I think the prudent approach to all of this is to phase the
increases in gradually, or go along the lines of the 12-13% increases approved for some of the
other positions.
In closing, I would mention that if any position needs a large increase, it should be the Finance
Director. That position oversees a department which serves as the lifeblood of our entire
operation. We need to ensure that we have highly competent individuals filling that position.
I thank you for your time and consideration of my thoughts.
Sincerely,
AARON CHUNG
Hawai`i County Council