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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-01-18 Salary Commission MinutesPage 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS SALARY COMMISSION MEETING Held at the Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, 96720, commencing at 10:00 a.m., on January 18, 2018. REPORTED BY: TERI HOSKINS, CSR #452 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES CHAIRMAN: HUGH Y. ONO, P. E. VICE -CHAIR: FLORENCE K. IKEDA BOARD MEMBERS: THOMAS E. FRATINARDO GEORGE W. CAMPBELL JAMES W. HIGGINS MILTON PAVAO, P. E. HAROLD D. DOW NELSON H. HARANO DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL: AMY SELF, ESQ. EX -OFFICIO: WILLIAM V. BRILHANTE, JR. ALSO PRESENT: JENNY SAKAMOTO MICHELE LAMKIN DEANNA SAKO AMY MIWA ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 2 Page 3 1 CHR.ONO: Okay. It's 10:00. Call this 2 Salary Commission Meeting to order. 3 And if we could start off with a roll call, 4 starting with Nelson over there. 5 MR. HARANO: Present. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Thomas Fratinardo present. 7 MR. DOW: Harold Dow present. 8 MS. IKEDA: Florence Ikeda 9 present. 10 CHR. ONO: Hugh Ono. I'm present. 11 MR. PAVAO: Milton Pavao. I'm here, I think. 12 MR. HIGGINS: Jim Higgins. I'm here also. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: George Campbell present. 14 CHR. ONO: So, Jim, take out your ice pick 15 and stab Milton. Let's find out whether he's here or 16 not. 17 We also have Amy and Bill here. Amy is from 18 corp. counsel's Office, and Bill is Ex -Officio from the 19 Department of Human Resources. 20 I might mention that at the end of 2017, we 21 had two members whose terms have expired. That's 22 George Campbell and Nelson Harano. However, there's a 23 provision that allows them three months carry-over, so 24 they're good until the end of March. In the meantime, 25 there is a reappointment process ongoing right now, I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 4 1 believe, which should take place, you know, before 2 then. 3 I guess -- Glynis, are they going to have to 4 be sworn in again? 5 MS. YAMADA: Correct. 6 CHR. ONO: Okay. So you have to do it 7 again. Okay. 8 Anyway, I understand we have no statements 9 from the public today? And that's correct. I was 10 going to limit it to half a second. 11 Next thing is approval of the minutes. There 12 are no minutes to approve. 13 Communications, we have none. 14 I would like to take something out of order, 15 and I'd like to ask the finance director to come up, 16 Deanna, please. We had requested that the Finance 17 Department be represented for any questions that 18 members of this commission might have. 19 So, Deanna, did you want to start with an 20 opening statement or anything, or... 21 MS. SAKO: Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. 22 I'm not sure exactly what all the questions were. You 23 know, I didn't get to get the specific questions, but I 24 know the mayor and I have talked, you know, about the 25 budget, and he did ask if there's adequate funds in the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 5 1 budget to pay the raises you guys have approved. And 2 there are in the current year's budget, so, you know, 3 that's, I think one of the questions on people's mind. 4 CHR. ONO: Yes. 5 MS. SAKO: But, if there are others, I'm happy 6 to answer them. 7 MS. IKEDA: Deanna, like, I know 8 the Liquor Commission collects fees, you know, for 9 penalties, et cetera, and other departments do the 10 same. When you collect the fees, is it allowable to 11 use this money to -- say, like, for salaries, or -- I 12 know some of it has specific -- 13 MS. SAKO: Like restrictions kind of things? 14 MS. IKEDA: Yes. 15 MS. SAKO: So, for liquor, they're actually -- 16 just that particular department is very unique in that 17 the liquor fees they collect go to fund the entire 18 department; and that's all they can use; and the rest 19 of the County cannot touch or utilize those funds. So 20 those monies go to run their whole department, which 21 includes salaries and wages for each of their staff. 22 There are others. You know, we have like 23 tipping fees or sewer fees, but part of that is also 24 for salaries and wages, you know. Fuel tax, for 25 example, goes for salaries and wages for our Highways ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 6 1 Division. So even though there are a lot of 2 specialized fees, most of them still are allowed to be 3 used for, you know, labor costs as well. 4 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman? 5 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, Milton, please. 6 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. Deanna, the financial 7 burden put on the County by the raises that we 8 increase, is that money coming from -- is that money 9 coming from things already allotted, or does it come 10 from a contingency fund? Where does it come from? 11 MS. SAKO: So, in this particular year, going 12 into this current fiscal year, fiscal year '18, all of 13 our bargaining unit contracts ended on June 30, 2017; 14 so we were in the process of negotiating new labor 15 contracts with all of our bargaining units. 16 At the time we did the budget, I believe it 17 was the firefighters association that had come out with 18 a settlement. And so we utilized that as a, you know, 19 example or kind of as a fair amount to -- for every 20 employee, and we applied that to all employees in the 21 County. So we put that in what we call a provision for 22 compensation adjustment. And, you know, we have to 23 look at that and make sure -- you know, there's no way 24 to guarantee that there's enough or not enough, but we 25 are done with most of our negotiations already. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 7 1 There's still one bargaining unit we haven't completed, 2 but we do believe there's adequate funds in that same 3 provision for all of the collective bargaining, you 4 know, different unions, as well as the raises you guys 5 have approved. 6 MR. PAVAO: Without jeopardizing any other 7 program? 8 MS. SAKO: Right. Right. Without having to 9 transfer from other departments and all of that. 10 Right. 11 MR. PAVAO: Okay. 12 MS. IKEDA: Deanna, on these 13 special fees, is there a possibility -- say, for 14 instance, the fees say that you have to pay for 15 salaries for regular employees and not the heads, but 16 maybe that you're a little short on the heads? Could 17 you do a transfer of funds or is that not allowable? 18 MS. SAKO: So, most of our department heads -- 19 I was trying to go through in my head quickly -- are 20 pretty much paid all out of the General Fund, which is 21 primarily covered by real property taxes. And so -- 22 and then the Charter also allows for the -- with the 23 mayor to approve within a department. So, definitely, 24 within a department is not a problem. 25 Like let's say they were short or maybe -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 8 1 just even to take it out of this, but overtime runs 2 high, the department head can request the mayor for 3 approval to transfer from operations to salaries and 4 wages. So, yes, I mean, that would be okay. 5 MR. DOW: I have a question. How does the 6 budgeting process work for the corporation counsel's 7 office and the prosecutor's office? 8 MS. SAKO: So both of those are departments 9 that are funded by the General Fund, so same like each 10 department, we, you know, have our kickoff meeting in 11 September. They go back and they prepare their 12 budgets, and then they bring it forward to -- they 13 submit it to Finance. We accumulate all of the budgets 14 and then add our estimated revenues, which is primarily 15 real property taxes, but it can be fees and other 16 things. We look at all of that and then try to 17 determine, you know -- we have to submit a balanced 18 budget to council, you know, by May 5th. And so, that 19 would be the final opportunity. So, I mean, we go 20 through, you know, the process with them like any other 21 department. And they would also have access to this 22 provision for compensation adjustment that I was 23 talking about earlier. 24 MR. DOW: Okay. Well, the situation that I 25 am seeing is that we're about to increase salaries for ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 18 MS. Page 9 1 our directors and deputies in those two offices, and 2 yet the deputy attorneys in those offices have no 3 representation. They have, as far as I can tell, no 4 template or guidelines for salary increases there -- 5 MS. SAKO: We actually -- 6 MR. DOW: -- so I'm wondering if salary 7 increases come for those deputies, when are they likely 8 to start? Yes, they did. 9 MS. SAKO: I would have to go confirm, but I 10 believe we did meet with both departments and that they 11 implemented raises for their attorneys on January 15 -- 12 I mean January 1st as well. 13 Amy, can you confirm that? 14 MS. SELF: I'm sorry. I missed -- 15 MS. SAKO: For corporation counsel, did the 16 attorneys receive raises on this last paycheck or not 17 yet? 18 MS. SELF: Yes. 19 You mean for the corp. counsel and the 20 assistant corp. counsel? 21 MS. SAKO: No, the staff -- 22 MS. SELF: The deputies? 23 MS. SAKO: The deputies. 24 MS. SELF: Yes, they did. 25 MS. SAKO: They did, yes. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 10 1 MR. HIGGINS: Question: I'm comforted by 2 your explanation in that you were ahead of the game, 3 anticipating these salaries that were coming; so that's 4 very comforting for this commission and future 5 commissions. 6 Can we assume, then, that in the future, for 7 when we're not sitting here, but there will be a lot of 8 other people, that that is going to be a process that 9 will be consistent, that you'll see that there's going 10 to be negotiations going on for pay raises, you'll set 11 aside this adjustment pool of money, so that this 12 commission doesn't have to deal with that? 13 MS. SAKO: Yes. I mean, I think that's a 14 safe assumption. So now some of the bargaining units, 15 you know, receive four-year contracts, so we'll budget 16 accordingly. Some receive only two. So, you know, in 17 a perfect world, we would have liked all the 18 negotiations to have been completed before the old 19 contract expired, but that doesn't always happen; so we 20 try to stay on top of everything that's out there so 21 that we can still take that into account when we're 22 budgeting. 23 MR. HIGGINS: I think in the future -- like 24 there's three years, four years, who knows what years; 25 we're unaware of that, so would it be too much to ask ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 16 Page 11 1 that when there is a new collective bargaining process 2 starting, that this commission be made aware of that so 3 we have an idea that, okay, next year we're really 4 going to have to deal with this because the current 5 contract is going to expire and there will be 6 negotiations for a new one? I mean, at least I came 7 into this kind of blind. I had no idea that firemen 8 were negotiating, or HGEA, or whoever was negotiating. 9 I think it would be helpful if we knew. 10 MS. SAKO: Yeah, I think -- I think Human 11 Resources has a list, and I think we do too, of all the 12 contracts and kind of when they expire. And then the 13 one thing is that all of them have at least two-year 14 contracts, so none will be expiring prior to June 30, 15 2019. 16 CHR. ONO: Jim, one of the things is that 17 we have the ex -officio member -- you know, right now 18 it's Bill from the Department of Human Resources -- 19 directly involved in the negotiations. So that's our 20 source of information sitting right, you know, along 21 with this panel. He's the man. 22 MR. HIGGINS: Very good. 23 MR. BRILHANTE: For as long as they'll have 24 me. 25 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 12 1 MS. IKEDA: Hugh? 2 CHR.ONO: Go ahead, Florence. 3 MS. IKEDA: I would like to know 4 is it within the power of the commission -- maybe Amy 5 has to answer this -- that we could say, for instance, 6 like we would do steps, like maybe every year say 2 7 percent, and it's contingent upon whatever -- you know, 8 we set it for maybe five years. We'd say we give all 9 of these people a 2 percent raise, but then we could 10 adjust it later on; so if a union contract maybe gives 11 them, you know, like 10 percent, then we could go back 12 in and say, "Okay, because they're getting 10 percent, 13 but we had only appropriated 2 percent, we could do an 14 adjustment"? Is that feasible or possible for the 15 commission to do that? 16 MS. SELF: Yes, because the Charter just says 17 that this commission sets the salary for those certain 18 people, right? And the only way that would be changed 19 is if they had a Charter amendment changing that. So 20 yes, you can set up procedure -- 21 MS. IKEDA: So that -- my reason 22 is because they went from 2008 without a raise. Is 23 that correct? 24 MS. SAKO: Yes. 25 MS. IKEDA: So to bypass this or ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 13 1 not to have the same situation happen again, we build 2 this in at this time to say that maybe we would give 3 them 2 percent per year, but it's always subject to 4 change if, in the future, something happens either way. 5 But that's what I think. 6 MS. SAKO: So if the Salary Commission chose 7 to do that, then we would treat that kind of salary 8 schedule like any of our other collective bargaining 9 unit schedules and just take that into account when 10 we're budgeting each year. 11 MR. BRILHANTE: I -- 12 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman? 13 I'm sorry. Go ahead. 14 MR. BRILHANTE: I just wanted to follow up on 15 that. There's actually -- there is a process in place, 16 and we utilize that same type, or a similar type, of 17 system when it relates to our excluded management 18 salaries. A provision in HRS 89C-3, you know, affords 19 us that. And, you know, I think it's very helpful for 20 the Finance Department to have that type of guidance 21 along the way because, like Ms. Sako said, the Finance 22 Department is very proactive, and, you know, they are 23 very mindful of, you know, what future raises and 24 salaries may equate out to, and they're always doing 25 those calculations. And if we had something that was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 14 1 specific like that, you know, some guidance, I think 2 that would be very helpful to them moving forward. 3 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, if I may, instead 4 of -- just my thoughts. Instead of, you know, giving 2 5 percent and then having to adjust, I think this 6 commission has the authority to say, "Okay, here on, 7 whenever there is an increase by the unions, then that 8 department head automatically will get 5 percent," or 9 whatever the percentage is, "more than the lowest 10 subordinate." 11 CHR. ONO: Actually, this part of the 12 discussion is an agenda item today, so we will get to 13 it; but right now what we want to do is have the 14 finance director respond to any questions we may have. 15 Thomas? 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes, thank you. 17 Ms. Sako, each bargaining unit -- are all the 18 bargaining units on the same schedule for raises? 19 MS. SAKO: This last one, they all happened 20 to end on June 30, 2017, but no, not necessarily. They 21 tend to have two-, four-, or six-year agreements. This 22 currently right now, most of our units -- all except 23 one -- have reached new agreements, and some are 24 four-year and some are two-year. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: And who is the exception ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 15 1 except for one? 2 MS. SAKO: Unit 14 is the one we haven't 3 completed our arbitration process yet, but that is our 4 water safety officers. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: And aside from them, is 6 there a possibility that -- I've been criticized for 7 doing my job, and I want to compare apples to oranges. 8 The amount of money that we're giving raises for is so 9 much less than what the collective bargaining -- what 10 the unions are getting. And if you could please -- at 11 some point, maybe you could supply the answer. I would 12 like to find out the entire increase in salary. 13 MS. SAKO: Oh, for the ones we have already 14 completed? 15 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 16 MS. SAKO: Yeah, that's actually a public 17 record as well as has been submitted to County Council, 18 but I can get you guys copies of that. Should I give 19 it to Glynis? Is that the process? 20 CHR. ONO: Is that what you want, Thomas? 21 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, the increases they 22 got. I think, what I heard, it was somewhere -- like 23 2019, it's around 10 or 11 million dollars, but I want 24 to know the entire -- over the next -- it's only two 25 years for everyone, or is it ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 7 Ms. Sako? 8 MS. SAKO: Yes. 9 MR. HARANO: May I ask, if there will be a 10 allocation for these so-called 2 percent increases, or 11 whatever that number may be, I suggest that the County, 12 or whoever, go ahead and actually have those increases 13 in their pay simply because speaking with people for 14 who I, you know, so-called represent, they're kind 15 of -- they're not happy when they see 20, 30 percent 16 increases just all of a sudden. You know, we've talked 17 about this before as well. 18 MS. SAKO: You mean the part -- like this 19 last salary -- the decisions you guys made -- 20 MR. HARANO: Yeah. 21 MS. SAKO: -- that were 20 and 30 because 22 there hadn't been pay raises since 2008 is what you're 23 saying, correct? 24 MR. HARANO: Correct. Yeah. 25 MS. SAKO: Whatever you guys decide, if it's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 16 1 MS. SAKO: No. I know like SHOPO was four 2 years. I want to say UPW, I think, was four years. 3 Some of them are four, some are two. But whatever we 4 have, we can get that to you. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you. 6 MR. HARANO: Mr. Chairman? 7 Ms. Sako? 8 MS. SAKO: Yes. 9 MR. HARANO: May I ask, if there will be a 10 allocation for these so-called 2 percent increases, or 11 whatever that number may be, I suggest that the County, 12 or whoever, go ahead and actually have those increases 13 in their pay simply because speaking with people for 14 who I, you know, so-called represent, they're kind 15 of -- they're not happy when they see 20, 30 percent 16 increases just all of a sudden. You know, we've talked 17 about this before as well. 18 MS. SAKO: You mean the part -- like this 19 last salary -- the decisions you guys made -- 20 MR. HARANO: Yeah. 21 MS. SAKO: -- that were 20 and 30 because 22 there hadn't been pay raises since 2008 is what you're 23 saying, correct? 24 MR. HARANO: Correct. Yeah. 25 MS. SAKO: Whatever you guys decide, if it's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 17 1 a salary schedule, if it's something, like Mr. Pavao 2 said, about whatever the collective bargaining gets, 3 you know, whatever you guys decide, we will be taking 4 that into account in our budget, so we will treat it 5 like any other salary schedule that we utilize, whether 6 it's the collective bargaining or the excluded 7 managerial that Mr. Brilhante was talking about. So, 8 whatever you guys approve, we will definitely keep 9 track of that. 10 And so it's a big process for us. You know, 11 each employee may have a different step movement date, 12 but our departments are very good at calculating that 13 out. So whatever the process you guys come up with, 14 we'll be following that as well. 15 MR. FRATINARDO: So question for you: So in 16 the County Charter, 13-28, and it's subsection C, "The 17 commission shall establish its rules of procedure which 18 shall provide that it meet at least annually and adopt 19 rules and regulations having the force and effect of 20 law." 21 So we want to work with the County Finance 22 Department. So the previous pay raises we gave, the 23 chief, Public Safety and so forth, that was kind of 24 like -- we don't want to like ram it down your guys -- 25 MS. SAKO: Right. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Page 18 MR. FRATINARDO: -- ram it through, so -- to come up -- what's convenient or -- for the County Finance Department? If we do give a raise in the future down the road, what will work better for you? MS. SAKO: I think one thing is just, I think, meeting more regularly or kind of doing it more regularly, whether it's a salary schedule, tying it into collective bargaining; but having those smaller, more frequent increases is a little easier for us to adapt to. But whatever process you guys put in place, if you do link it to something, that helps us as well, because then we're kind of expecting it, and, you know, we'll treat it like our other collective bargaining unit agreements. TRT �M MT A7 TRT-) TW-NTO . ARDO. Thank you. I request -- MR. HIGGINS: I just have another question on 18 retirement plans. 19 MS. SAKO: Okay. 20 MR. HIGGINS: We're having a dramatic effect 21 in the short term with these pay raises for these 22 people, deservedly so; but we're also affecting their 23 retirement benefits dramatically. 24 My question is are County employees members 25 of the state retirement system? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 19 1 MS. SAKO: Yes, they are. 2 MR. HIGGINS: Is that due to law? Why don't 3 we have our own retirement system for our own employees 4 that we can manage that instead of -- they are part of 5 the State system, which is bankrupt? And so, that's my 6 question is that I feel like we're throwing our 7 employees of this County into an ozone that we have no 8 control over, and neither do they. 9 MS. SAKO: So it is required by Hawaii 10 Revised Statutes that we participate in the Statewide 11 Employees Retirement System, so we do. They have 12 also -- the State Employee Retirement System, along 13 with the legislature, did take action last legislative 14 period to increase their rates to help get the plan 15 better funded. They have changed management. They 16 have changed investments. So, hopefully, they are back 17 on the right track to stay within the 30 -year funding 18 period. And so, those increased rates went into effect 19 July 1st of 2017. So we are paying those increased 20 rates, and they will continue to increase for the next 21 three years. 22 But the basic question is, yes, we are 23 required by state law to participate in that plan. 24 MR. DOW: I have a question. Are there cost 25 of living adjustments built into these contracts? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 20 1 MS. SAKO: No. I mean, not specifically. I 2 mean, we bargain each contract period, and there are 3 increases. There's annual increases in the two- and 4 four-year contracts that were approved, not 5 necessarily -- they're not necessarily called cost of 6 living increases. 7 MR. DOW: Are you able to predict a future 8 salary for a particular position? 9 MS. SAKO: Only based on the collective 10 bargaining agreements that have already been approved. 11 So like, let's say, SHOPO, because they had a four-year 12 contract, whatever the employee's salary was on day one 13 of that contract, we know what the across-the-board 14 raises are, we know what the salary or the step 15 movement increases are based on the contract; so then 16 we can calculate that out for the next four years, and 17 we'll know what the salary will be at the end of that 18 four-year contract. But beyond that, because it's 19 subject to collective bargaining -- and we bargain 20 state-wide -- the governor has four votes, and each 21 mayor one -- you know, it's really hard to know exactly 22 what it will be. 23 MR. DOW: I have been trying to figure out if 24 there is a way of determining the likelihood of hitting 25 a salary inversion situation in any particular ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 21 1 department. 2 MS. SAKO: That's been -- anytime the 3 employees get raises and the department heads don't, 4 you are probably going to get into that situation 5 again. I mean, because it was like 2008, many of the 6 department heads had raises, so -- but at the same 7 time, you know, that was also the period when we were 8 having the recession, so most employees did furloughs. 9 The department heads participated in that as well. And 10 so it's only really been the last few years in the last 11 contract period where, you know, the raises started to 12 go up again. 13 So, yes, I think we're back to the -- if 14 the -- either the Salary Commission meets more often or 15 they tie it into collective bargaining unit raises, and 16 I -- not to speak for him, but I think what Mr. Pavao 17 was saying was that if SHOPO got a 5 percent raise, 18 that the police chief would also get a 5 percent raise. 19 So if you guys did something like that, that would also 20 help to, I guess, try to minimize the inversion impact 21 in the future. 22 MR. PAVAO: And, if I may say, doing something 23 like that will make your job a whole lot easier. 24 MS. SAKO: It will, yes, because then as 25 we're planning or -- and even if, let's say, after the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 22 1 four years, and we're in the next four-year contract 2 cycle, we kind of have a general idea of what we think 3 might get negotiated. We know what the employer's 4 offer was, what SHOPO's offer was, and we try to meet 5 somewhere in the middle. And so, at least we know then 6 that we also need to take the chief and deputy into 7 account as well. 8 So it's really whatever you guys end up 9 deciding, but we will follow whatever rules or 10 guidelines you guys put in place. 11 CHR. ONO: I might mention that initially 12 what we set up was a Tier 1 and a Tier 2; so the Tier 1 13 is supposed to take care of primarily the inversions 14 and the present salaries that may not match up to what 15 should be comparable in the public sector or the 16 private sector. 17 The Tier 2, we decided to separate that 18 because that's something we're going to look at so that 19 we don't have a repeating inversion, you know, every 20 time there's a change in the salary schedule. So 21 that's an item that's on the agenda today, just to 22 begin the discussion on that. And I would think that 23 this commission is pretty confident we're going to come 24 out with something that doesn't allow that to reoccur. 25 Otherwise, it's just a craziness of endless meetings ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 23 1 going on every time there's a change in the regular 2 salaries and wages. 3 Since we're on this, Deanna, we have 13 4 positions yet that we have not done anything to, and 5 it's a item of discussion on today's agenda. But one 6 of the things is funding for these 13 positions which 7 adjustments might be made. If we do that, I might ask 8 the question of setting the effective date. I would 9 think that we're going to make some adjustments to 10 these 13 positions, because it just needs to be done, 11 but we could set the effective date anywhere from 12 retroactively back to January 1st or as late as July 13 1st, which is what the mayor was requesting in his 14 presentation. 15 So any comment from the Finance Department, 16 if we put these salary changes into effect, as to where 17 we might be able to set the effective date of that? 18 MS. SAKO: I'm not aware of a situation where 19 we've retro'd department heads' pay in the past, but, 20 you know -- the last time was 2008, so it's been a 21 while. But whatever date you guys set, we'll take care 22 of it, yeah, so... 23 CHR. ONO: So we could do something like 24 a March 1st? 25 MS. SAKO: Yes, if you wanted to do March ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 24 1 1st, yeah, I think if you -- yeah, that should be fine. 2 CHR. ONO: Okay. I just want, you know, 3 the commission to understand that we could set it 4 anyplace, and then I wanted to, you know, have the 5 Finance Department verify that it's something that's 6 manageable; because if it wasn't manageable, then what 7 we would do is certainly set it, if at all, for July 8 1st. 9 MS. SAKO: Okay. 10 CHR. ONO: So we're going to have an 11 interesting discussion on that. 12 MR. PAVAO: Question: Not question, but a 13 comment. Would it be too much of a burden financially 14 or doing the computations if we did it progressively? 15 MS. SAKO: What do you mean? 16 MR. PAVAO: Like a percentage and then, 17 July 1st, 100 percent of what we decide, so that it 18 will be a easier burden on, you know, finances? 19 MS. SAKO: Oh, we're okay this year, so 20 whatever you guys decide is fine. But if you're saying 21 like, you know, do like a 2 percent raise on March 1st 22 and another 2 percent on July 1st or something like 23 that? Is that what you're saying? 24 MR. PAVAO: Well, no. What I'm saying is 25 whatever salary we decide, say 20 percent, 20 percent, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 25 1 20 -- well, however it works -- 2 MS. SAKO: Oh, something like that? Yeah. 3 MR. PAVAO: -- until we reach 100 percent in 4 July? Would that be easier, or would that be too much 5 of a problem? 6 MS. SAKO: It might be easier on our payroll 7 folks if we just implement it -- 8 MR. PAVAO: One time? 9 MS. SAKO: -- one time. Yeah. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: Ms. Sako, last time 11 Mayor Kim testified, at the very end of his testimony, 12 he mentioned about -- you know, he -- about civil 13 service reform and the collective bargaining 14 experience. Is there any talk right now about that in 15 the County between you or -- in the Finance Department 16 or the mayor or any of his administration? 17 MS. SAKO: I believe the civil service is in 18 the HRS or state law, and I have not gone through all 19 the bills before the legislature yet to see -- you 20 know, there are always many that impact our employees, 21 whether it's specific civil service reform or not. 22 So the departments, you know -- I try to pay 23 attention more to the ones that have cost impact. I'm 24 sure Human Resources pays attention to the other ones 25 that, you know, would deal with civil service reform or ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 26 1 something like that. 2 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you. 3 MR. HARANO: So, Ms. Sako, these increases, 4 if we have effective July lst, where is that money 5 going to be coming from? 6 MS. SAKO: So the July lst budget has not 7 been set yet. We're in the process of working on that. 8 March lst we submit the first draft to the County 9 Council, and then May 5th is our final budget; because 10 real property taxes will not be certified until April, 11 so we're still working on a draft budget. So the 12 sooner we have the information from the Salary 13 Commission, you know, the sooner, you know, we -- the 14 better information we have, I guess, to plan. But the 15 raises that were already approved we did pay out in 16 this -- 17 MR. HARANO: Right. 18 MS. SAKO: -- last paycheck. And so, whatever 19 date you do it -- for the current year, I already have 20 money in that provision for compensation adjustment, 21 but coming for the future, it's like every other 22 employee's raise or any other cost the County has dealt 23 with. You know, we're looking at the entire budget as 24 a whole. 25 I'm not sure I answered your question. It's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 27 1 just we don't actually -- you know, the July lst budget 2 for next fiscal year hasn't opinion approved yet, so 3 we're still working on that. 4 MR. HARANO: Yeah. Well, let's say it's 5 effective July lst. Then the money that was -- this 6 rainy day fund that's in the budget year -ending 7 June 30, '18, that -- I assume what is not spent goes 8 back into the General Fund, correct? 9 MS. SAKO: Right. So that becomes our fund 10 balance, which is one of the revenue items that we 11 utilize in the following year. 12 MR. HARANO: And will that specifically be 13 that rainy day fund for salaries, wages? 14 MS. SAKO: We don't necessarily designate 15 that it's for salaries and wages. We have to have our 16 revenues match our expenditures; so we come up with all 17 the expenditures that we have to have. We come up with 18 our revenue sources. And then it becomes a balancing 19 act, if we need to trim or we need to increase revenues 20 or what the process is. But we're still early in the 21 process. You know, they're still working on things 22 like real property tax values. The legislature is 23 still meeting. So I don't know what may come out of 24 that. Last year there were a lot of cost items that 25 came out of that for us that impacted the County. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 28 1 So, you know, we're still in that process, 2 but I think, you know, it's not just what the Salary 3 Commission decides. You know, we have our eight 4 bargaining unit contracts to abide by. We have the ARS 5 rates. We have the OPEB. We have all of our other 6 cost factors. So the sooner we know what the Salary 7 Commission has approved and whether it's effective 8 March lst or July lst, you know, we'll take that into 9 account in our analysis. 10 MS. IKEDA: Deanna, what kind of 11 budgets do you folks work with? Do you work with 12 annual, biennium, and five years? 13 MS. SAKO: The legal budget is an annual 14 budget, but we are required to present the next year's 15 budget plus additional two years; so we're usually 16 looking at three-year periods but focus mostly on the 17 next fiscal year. 18 MS. IKEDA: Thank you. 19 MR. HIGGINS: One more question, please: A 20 little history lesson from you. The ten-year absence 21 of pay raises was a little rugged for everybody to deal 22 with for a lot of reasons, so we've taken care of that. 23 I understand the recession. So year 2, year 24 3, going back to, you know, the last ten years, after 25 that, what happened? What happened? Is it the result ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 29 1 of this commission not meeting, or why was this not 2 taken care of for, let's say, the last six or seven 3 years? Because we don't want to deal with that ever 4 again, so I just want to know how did it happen, and 5 why was there no communication to get it done? 6 MS. SAKO: I don't know that I have a 7 specific answer. I know in the early years, 8 definitely, you know, we had the recession; we had 9 budget cuts. You know, I think everyone probably 10 agreed that it would be inappropriate for, you know, 11 department heads and, you know, other appointed people 12 to get raises when the collective bargaining units were 13 not. 14 Subsequent to that, when the collective 15 bargaining units started getting raises, what happened, 16 I'm not sure. I know there were certain periods when 17 there may not have been a quorum or adequate members; 18 but, you know, I think the current administration is, 19 you know, committed to keeping the Salary Commission 20 full so that you guys can meet as needed. But, yeah, I 21 don't really have the specific history as to what 22 happened, but I think you guys all seem to be on the 23 same page that we don't want that to happen again in 24 the future. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: Mr. Higgins, I think it was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 30 1 either the first or second meeting in the minutes I 2 specifically requested any correspondence that the 3 previous Salary Commissions had. 4 MR. HIGGINS: Okay. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: I never received it, so I 6 assume those archives no longer exist. So, again, 7 we're on our own. 8 MR. HIGGINS: Strangely enough. 9 MR. HARANO: Ms. Sako, so the budget cuts 10 that happened during the recession, was the salary 11 expense line item hit? 12 MS. SAKO: We did have two years of 13 furloughs. I believe the first year was two days a 14 month and the second year was one day a month. And all 15 non-public safety employees basically participated in 16 that. And there have been times where we have unfunded 17 vacant positions, you know, where, you know, the 18 position hasn't been filled for some time, that we've 19 unfunded that. But that was a way to deal with the 20 recession at the time. 21 MR. HARANO: When you say unfunded open 22 positions, where does that budgeted line item for that 23 expense go? 24 MS. SAKO: We actually didn't -- let's say, 25 just as an example, in the current year's budget, there ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 31 1 was a position that was funded for $50,000 and it 2 hadn't been filled for quite some time. Then we might 3 talk with the department or with the mayor about maybe 4 unfunding it for the future year so it was more that, 5 the following year, that position wouldn't be budgeted 6 for. 7 MR. HARANO: Thank you. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: One last question for me: 9 Employees that are hired on a contractual basis in the 10 County, is there a special fund for those employees 11 that comes out -- for example, Mr. Levin was hired by 12 the mayor, or there's contractual hires that are with 13 the prosecutor's office or at the corp. counsel office. 14 Do they all come from the General Fund, or is there a 15 special fund they come from? 16 MS. SAKO: They would come from the 17 department's budget, whether it's General Fund, Highway 18 Fund or, you know, whichever fund that department falls 19 under. 20 But there's various reasons for different 21 contractual hires, and so if it's like -- it all comes 22 out of the salaries and wages account; so they have to 23 be able to have adequate funds in that account. Some 24 people may be specifically budgeted for. Some may 25 be -- you know, they just feel there's the need, and ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 14 Page 32 1 they may have adequate funds in their budget, so then 2 they would go ahead and hire. But there's not like a 3 special fund for contract hires; it's part of their 4 decision-making process. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: And when I last spoke to you 6 was on my radio program. So is the piece of the pie 7 for salaries still around 65 or 67 percent of the 8 operating budget? you 9 MS. SAKO: Uh-huh. I haven't looked at the 10 entire budget, but we're at 62 1/2 percent right now, 11 and that will continue to increase for probably three 12 more years as these additional increases go into place, 13 yes. 14 MR. FRATINARDO: Mahalo. 15 MR. DOW: I found your comprehensive annual 16 financial report very informative. When will the new 17 one be available? 18 MS. SAKO: It is available. We have it in 19 hard copy now. I can even have someone bring you down 20 a copy if you would like. 21 MR. DOW: Thank you very much. 22 MS. SAKO: And it will be online as soon as 23 we make it ADA compatible. 24 MR. DOW: Thank you. 25 CHR. ONO: Any other questions of the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 33 1 finance director? 2 If not, Deanna, we want to thank you very 3 much. 4 MS. SAKO: Yeah. 5 CHR. ONO: You did really well at 6 providing the explanations to the questions that we 7 have. We wish you happy new year and -- 8 MS. SAKO: Yeah, happy new year to all of you 9 as well. 10 CHR. ONO: Thank you again. 11 MS. SAKO: Thank you. Take care. 12 MR. HIGGINS: Well done. 13 CHR. ONO: Isn't she good? 14 MS. SELF: Yes, always. 15 CHR. ONO: Okay. We're going to jump 16 back in the agenda. 17 Under New Business, we had the election of 18 Salary Commission Chair and Vice -Chair for the 2018 19 calendar year. And on this item, I think it was 20 brought up by Thomas? 21 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 22 CHR. ONO: You brought that up, so go 23 ahead. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah, I was just -- in the 25 previous year, it was mentioned that the new elections ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 34 1 come up in the beginning of the new year. I was just 2 curious of whether it -- when the elections actually 3 occur, in the beginning of the year or the end of the 4 year. 5 CHR. ONO: I think best to have Bill or 6 Amy respond to that. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you. 8 MS. SELF: Let me look at the Rules. 9 CHR. ONO: We make our own Rules. 10 It's either going to be probably once at the 11 beginning of a year or once annually, which could mean, 12 you know, whenever... 13 MR. BRILHANTE: The answer to that question 14 is -- I believe it's stated in the Charter under Boards 15 and Commissions for the County of Hawaii, and it's an 16 annual election. So the past practice with the 17 majority of the boards and commissions is that we do an 18 election, you know, at the beginning of the year. I 19 know some commissions -- I've sat on some commissions 20 where they actually do the election in December in 21 anticipation of starting the new year fresh, but at 22 this point, since it's January, it's at your 23 discretion. The item is agendized. 24 And just to be clear, there's no prohibition 25 against a previous chair continuing to serve for an ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 35 1 additional year. So the process would be if a 2 nomination was to be made, you know, for a chair and 3 then that motion is seconded, and then you go forward 4 with that proceeding, and the same for the vice -chair 5 as well. 6 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to 7 make a motion. Since the Chair and Vice -Chair is doing 8 such an excellent job, I would like to recommend that 9 we retain the chairman and vice-chairman for this 10 coming year. 11 MR. HIGGINS: I second that. 12 CHR. ONO: Discussion? 13 How about a salary increase for us? 14 MR. PAVAO: 50 percent. 15 MR. CAMPBELL: Double your salaries. 16 MR. HIGGINS: I'll take you to lunch. 17 MR. PAVAO: 50 percent of nothing is still 18 nothing. 19 CHR. ONO: Open for discussion. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm fine with that. That's 21 a question I had had. I don't want to create a coup in 22 the Salary Commission. So I think the both of you were 23 elected sometime in October, so -- or -- so I guess -- 24 so we can adopt rules and procedures that we see fit on 25 this commission. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 36 1 MR. BRILHANTE: You do have a set of Rules 2 for the Salary Commission. 3 MR. FRATINARDO: That's under the Boards and 4 Commissions? 5 MR. BRILHANTE: No. You have specific Rules 6 for the Salary Commission. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: Oh, okay. 8 MR. BRILHANTE: But that particular rule 9 comes under the County Charter -- 10 MR. FRATINARDO: County Charter. 11 MR. BRILHANTE: -- for Boards and 12 Commissions. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay, I understand. 14 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's been moved and 15 seconded. 16 Someone needs to help me out with -- would 17 you repeat your motion, Milton, please? 18 MR. PAVAO: That we retain the existing 19 Chairman and Vice -Chairman. 20 CHR. ONO: Without a pay increase. 21 MR. PAVAO: Well, 50 percent of nothing is 22 still nothing. 23 CHR. ONO: Okay. No, what were the 24 specific terms of the year? 25 MR. PAVAO: The beginning of the year. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 37 1 CHR. ONO: As of the beginning of the 2 year? Okay. So that would be effective January 1st? 3 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 4 CHR. ONO: Okay. 5 MR. HARANO: Can we just include "calendar 6 year"? Can we just include "calendar year" versus 7 "fiscal" -- 8 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 9 MR. HARANO: -- into the language? 10 Thank you. 11 CHR. ONO: Is there an amendment to that? 12 No? 13 Anyway, the motion will be that the Chair and 14 the Vice -Chair will repeat as of the beginning of the 15 calendar year 2018. 16 Any further discussion? 17 If not, all those in favor say "Aye." 18 (All members responded affirmatively.) 19 CHR. ONO: Opposed? 20 Motion is carried. Okay, thank you. 21 MR. PAVAO: Now go sign your W-2 form. 22 CHR. ONO: The next item we have is the 23 review of the existing compensation plan. 24 Specifically, there's a worksheet that has been 25 furnished from before, and it's called "Salary ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 0 Page 38 1 Worksheet Statewide Information." It looks like this. 2 It's that big page in your folder, yeah (SEE ATT.A). 3 So, as you recall, we had mentioned that there 4 were 13 positions here that have yet to be acted on, 5 which include elected officials like the mayor, the 6 County Council, and then the rest of them are 7 management officials or appointed officers within 8 certain departments, like the Mayor's Office, the 9 County Clerk's Office, Information Technology 10 Department, Liquor Control, the Director of Housing and 11 Community Development, and both the director and the 12 deputy in the Department of Research and Development. 13 And just let me say something to that. I put 14 these things together not to advocate, you know, what 15 it should be. That is not my intention on this. It's 16 just to serve as a point of discussion where we can 17 begin the discussion. So, you know, the decision is 18 this commission's decision. It is not my decision to 19 make. And I have really enjoyed the way that this 20 commission has worked. 21 So with that, we have these 13 positions. 22 And, perhaps, we should begin with any discussion or 23 motion that one wants to make. There's two parts of 24 it. One is setting the salary, if we're going to do 25 that at all, and then second would be setting the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 39 1 effective date for these 13 positions. 2 The positions that are shown at the bottom 3 have been completed already. We did that at the last 4 meeting. And so with that, open for discussion. 5 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, Mr. Chairman, when I was 6 reviewing this, you know, I know that the intent was to 7 put it between Maui and Oahu. And I was reviewing 8 this. There's not a consistent percentage. Like, for 9 example, the mayor. The percentage of (inaudible) 10 is not consistent with, say, for example, the County 11 clerk or -- how did these figures come about? I think 12 before we decide on accepting or not accepting these 13 figures, I for one would really like to see how the 14 math came about to arrive at these figures. 15 CHR. ONO: As best as I can recall, I 16 don't recall any formula being applied for the mayor or 17 the County council members. We just looked at the 18 spread in the numbers and we picked a number. But as 19 for the rest of them, I believe -- it's been a while, 20 but I believe it might be 5 percent above the 21 next -highest subordinate that reports to them. 22 Like in the case of -- let me pick -- in the 23 case of Research and Development, they have an EM -level 24 position reporting to that level, and if I'm not 25 mistaken, it's 5 percent above that. Oh, here it's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 40 1 shown that the salary of the subordinate level is shown 2 as 73,000 on the director of Research and Development; 3 so the 126- was just selected to match up with 4 comparability with some of the other department heads 5 that might have the same experience or professional 6 qualifications. 7 MR. PAVAO: Okay. When we go to the mayor, 8 say the mayor, for example, $165,000, Maui is 159,9-, 9 Honolulu is 173-. How did they come up with the 165-? 10 CHR. ONO: Out of the sky. 11 MR. PAVAO: Wow. 12 CHR. ONO: So, you're welcome to change 13 it. The commission is welcome to change it. Like I 14 say, just serving as a point to begin the discussion. 15 MR. PAVAO: I guess the big question, then, 16 is are we going to try to set the salaries between Maui 17 and Oahu? Are we going to try to match Maui or... 18 CHR. ONO: No. That's entirely up to the 19 commission. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: We discussed this two 21 meetings ago, when Ricky Roy Damerville was testifying, 22 that group of individuals; and I had mentioned about 23 the dynamics of the Big Island compared to Maui, the 24 dynamics of the Big Island compared to Honolulu, 25 dynamics of the Big Island compared to Kauai. So what ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 41 1 are we dealing with on this island, and what is each 2 elected official dealing with on this island? So it's 3 much different than Maui. And that's where I thought, 4 because we have the military presence on this island, I 5 would say that we are more close to Oahu than we are to 6 Maui. So I think we were between Oahu and Maui. And 7 that's just my opinion. 8 MS. IKEDA: Chairman, discussion. 9 CHR. ONO: Yes. 10 MS. IKEDA: What I see is that, 11 you know, we can do that, but in my opinion, we should 12 just put a percentage for now and we can do an 13 adjustment as needed. The reason for that is if we 14 have room to -- say, for instance, conservatively we 15 say every year for the next five years we would give 16 them a 2 or 3 percent raise, depending on the fiscal 17 well-being of the County, you could do an adjustment of 18 maybe half a percent up or half a percent down. But I 19 think that is fair, instead of just doing one lump sum. 20 I view it, to me, as to do it incrementally, 21 a better process, and for budget -wise, because I used 22 to work with budgets, too. It's easier to work with 23 than just to give just a lump sum. That's my opinion. 24 CHR. ONO: Let me just mention again that 25 this is part of the Tier 1 pay adjustments, which are ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 42 1 really intended to catch up from something that was set 2 in 2008. Whatever we approve today or don't act on, I 3 would guess is going to remain in place until the end 4 of this fiscal year, which ends on June 30th. 5 Beginning June 30th, we have to -- I would 6 think we have to act on what is going to happen after 7 June 30th with the collective bargaining agreements 8 taking effect, and then again hopefully putting into 9 place something that will go from more than just a 10 one-shot deal to catch up, so something that would 11 adjust with the future pay raises. 12 And as most of us recognize, within the 13 collective bargaining agreement of the police unions, 14 say, for example, it's not just the one-time increase 15 for the four-year period; there's increases that occur 16 throughout the four years, different percentage at 17 different points in time. So that's what is going to 18 happen with the police personnel. And hopefully we can 19 put into effect something where the chief and the 20 deputy chief's salary would adjust accordingly as that 21 occurs. 22 MS. IKEDA: Hugh, as I see this, 23 I was in favor of all the department heads getting this 24 big raise because they need specific skills, licenses, 25 et cetera; but for elected officials, I feel that we ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 43 1 should do percentages. You know, you never do a 2 catch-up. In my opinion, you'll never catch up to the 3 other counties, but you can come close to it, to be 4 equitable. So that's the way I view it, you know, 5 because I see -- as I said, I had no problems with the 6 different department heads because of all the 7 skills/education that was necessary to get there. And 8 you wanted the best people. 9 CHR. ONO: Is it the wish of the 10 commission that we separate the elected officials from 11 the appointed type or the department head type? We can 12 do that. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: I was going to suggest that. 14 CHR. ONO: It sounds like, you know, that 15 would be a direction to go in. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: And then, amongst the 17 elected officials, for me, my idea would be for the 18 County council, when you have a newly elected County 19 council member, you have a base salary that they 20 receive, and then either they can receive a yearly 21 raise or, if they're reelected, they can receive 22 another raise going forward from there. 23 But I'm getting input from people about the 24 elected officials -- and it's perception. Each person 25 might be more happy with their elected official than ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 44 1 another; but there needs to be some sort of policy as 2 far as how we're going to do this. And my idea would 3 be from -- that it resets. If you get a newly elected 4 official in there, it goes back to the base salary and 5 it goes forward from there. 6 MR. PAVAO: I would -- 7 CHR. ONO: Go ahead. 8 I'm thinking that what we should do is we 9 should separate the elected officials and get them -- 10 separate them from, you know, the department head type. 11 Bill, looks like you want to say something. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: Just be mindful that the 13 prosecutor is an elected official as well, so that 14 might be something to consider if you -- 15 MR. HIGGINS: We did that. 16 CHR. ONO: The prosecutor's one is 17 completed, right, so we are just talking about the 18 mayor and the County council officials. 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. If I could comment -- 20 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: -- on both of those subjects. 22 I don't have any trouble separating them, but 23 I really feel that we need to raise even the elected 24 officials more than just a small percentage to start 25 with. We need to bite the bullet and get the numbers ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 45 1 up reasonable. Our mayor being paid well below the 2 other three counties is a travesty. And a 2 or 3 3 percent raise is never going to get us there. We're 4 going to have to give a sizeable raise and then set 5 some small amount the commission desires to do so. 6 But I just think we need to move on and get 7 these positions at least where we're comparable with 8 the rest of the counties so that we -- we have been 9 very lucky with our current mayor wanting to come back, 10 but trying to attract people of his caliber is going to 11 be hard, particularly at this low salary; and so we 12 really need to do what we can to get the numbers up. 13 Whether it comes in effect with the new mayor time, you 14 know, when we set the position, the actual raise time 15 is something we can discuss, but I really think we 16 should set a much better base salary. 17 MR. HIGGINS: I totally concur with that. I 18 think that's the two-phased/two-step that we are 19 dealing with right now. One is the catch-up. And I 20 think we all agree that, looking at these comparable 21 salaries, along with what George said, is absolutely 22 right on. And the second phase would be Florence. She 23 is absolutely right. From that point on, we could set 24 a 2 percent or whatever percent annually. But I think 25 this catch-up thing is very important, as per George's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 25 So if you see a position over there -- I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 46 1 comments here. 2 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 3 MR. HARANO: Mr. Chairman, as far -- I 4 think -- what was it -- two meetings ago that the rest 5 of the priority A's -- we decided it was going to be a 6 average between City and County of Maui and County of 7 Honolulu. Is that correct? If I remember right. The 8 average? We took the average for these priority A's? 9 MR. HIGGINS: I don't think so. 10 MR. HARANO: No? 11 MR. HIGGINS: I think it was just matching 12 Maui. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: Right. 14 MR. HARANO: Okay. Well, my suggestion is 15 that if we apply that criteria, going to match Maui, I 16 think we should consistently apply this criteria. I do 17 not like to have subjective thoughts or comments into 18 the decision of what that salary is, you know. I'm in 19 favor of objective standards to getting to that end 20 number. 21 CHR. ONO: I think we might be able to 22 get to a decision-making, first of all, by agreeing to 23 identify what these salaries should be when they're 24 approved. 25 So if you see a position over there -- I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 47 1 suggest a discussion on setting those salaries right 2 now. If there are those that should be changed, either 3 upward or downward, why don't we have that discussion 4 right now. 5 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman? 6 CHR. ONO: Yes. 7 MR. PAVAO: I would like to suggest that -- 8 as the gentlemen on my right suggested, I would like to 9 suggest that we start off setting the salaries 10 comparable to Maui, with the exception of the chair of 11 the County council and the member of the County 12 council; and on that, revert to setting it equal to 13 Oahu, because Maui's salary for that is -- 14 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 15 MR. PAVAO: -- kind of high. 16 MR. HIGGINS: Way high. Way high. 17 CHR. ONO: Why don't we do this, then. 18 Rather than talking about the salaries here and there, 19 why don't we go down the line, starting first with 20 the -- maybe from the bottom up is easier. But no. 21 Okay. Leave the mayor out of it for now. Okay? 22 For the managing director's salary, which is 23 shown at 153,264, I can tell you that this one is based 24 to match the Department of Public Works and the 25 Department of Environmental Management; and those are ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 professional engineers at that level. So if there's a 2 suggestion to change this, let's have it now, please. 3 MR. PAVAO: I suggest we change it to be 4 comparable to Maui. 5 CHR. ONO: Would it go down to 141-? 6 MR. PAVAO: Correct. Yes. 7 MS. IKEDA: Yes. 8 CHR. ONO: And you realize that at 141-, 9 this individual will be paid less than the department 10 heads for both Public Works and DEM and Planning? 11 MR. PAVAO: I realize that. Because the 12 requirements for Public Works is much higher than the 13 requirements for a managing director. 14 CHR. ONO: Okay. Are we all in 15 agreement? 16 MS. IKEDA: Yes, I agree. 17 CHR. ONO: Anybody disagree? 18 MR. DOW: I disagree. 19 CHR. ONO: What is your suggestion, 20 Harold? 21 MR. DOW: Well, I look at this as a business 22 organization. County government is a business 23 organization. The mayor is the chief executive 24 officer. The managing director is the chief operating 25 officer. I think those should be the two highest-paid ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 49 1 salaries in the entire organization. 2 And as far as staying ahead of subordinates 3 and salary inversions, if we start looking at those as 4 they apply to the mayor and the managing director, we 5 have a salary inversion of our police chief and the 6 managing director, who supervises that department. 7 CHR. ONO: So, right now, the managing 8 director's pay would match -- if I'm not mistaken, my 9 recollection, it matches the Public Works, DEM, Police. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: Mr. Chair, may I interject? 11 CHR. ONO: Yes. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: I think, from what I'm 13 gathering from the charts that we had previously, the 14 current salary at 153,264 for the managing director 15 would match that of the -- 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Police. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: -- police chief and the fire 18 chief. It would be above that of the DEM, which is 19 132-, and Public Works, which is 132-. So it matches 20 the police chief and the fire chief and corporation 21 counsel. 22 CHR. ONO: Harold, are you okay with 23 that, or are you asking that it be higher than that? 24 MR. DOW: I think it should be higher. 25 CHR. ONO: Okay. We're having this -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 50 1 what do you -- do you want to suggest a number, Harold? 2 MR. DOW: Well, we have -- the primary 3 pressure in all of this is in the police department and 4 the excluded managerial position. And the top pay in 5 that slot right now is pushing 150,000. I think we 6 should have significant separation between that 7 subordinate pay and the chief of police and a further 8 separation between the chief of police and the managing 9 director. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. Do you want to suggest 11 a number? 12 MR. DOW: I would put -- well, going back to 13 the mayor's salary, I would put the mayor at 168,000. 14 I'd put the managing director at 165-. I would pay 15 more attention to the recommendations by the police 16 commission and the fire commission, who were looking 17 for a salary for the police chief which, as I recall, 18 was around 175,000. I would put the police chief at 19 164- and the fire chief at 164-. 20 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we've approved -- 21 whatever we've done with the police chief and the fire 22 chief was approved at previous -- 23 MR. DOW: I don't think they're high enough 24 is what I'm saying. 25 CHR. ONO: We can go back then, but I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 51 1 1 don't want to bring that back into this agenda. 2 MR. DOW: Well, that's my thinking in the 3 hierarchy of it. 4 CHR. ONO: Yeah, the approved police 5 chief's was 153-? 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. Police chief was 7 153,2-. 8 MS. SELF: -266. 9 CHR. ONO: 153,266. 10 So are you suggesting that we do the managing 11 director at 165-? 12 MR. DOW: I do. 13 CHR. ONO: Okay. We have that on the 14 table. 15 Commissioners, can you live with that? 16 MR. PAVAO: No. 17 MS. IKEDA: No. 18 CHR. ONO: Okay. 19 MR. HARANO: Mr. Chair, do we have an 20 organization chart of the County from the mayor down? 21 CHR. ONO: Sure. I don't. We don't have 22 it with us here -- 23 MR. HARANO: Yeah. 24 CHR. ONO: -- no. 25 MR. HARANO: I think that would give somewhat ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 52 1 of a direction as far as where the -- you know, the 2 hierarchy is and the dispersion of salaries. 3 MR. DOW: There's a good explanation of that 4 in the comprehensive annual financial report, and it 5 shows the responsibility for the managing director and 6 the mayor, and their oversight and responsibility is 7 huge. And I don't think -- I don't know what you think 8 a CEO and a COO of a company with 2,700 employees and a 9 budget of 500 million should be paid, but I think 10 they're underpaid. 11 MR. CAMPBELL: I agree with Harold. I think 12 that if you look at what we're asking the mayor and the 13 managing director to do and the size of the budget and 14 the number of people, I mean, they have to be really 15 top-level people; and they should be paid more than 16 anybody else. I happen to concur with your numbers, 17 Harold. 18 CHR. ONO: Okay. So we have an open 19 discussion right now that the mayor's salary would be 20 set at 168,000, the managing director at 165,000. And 21 the last time I asked the question, most of us were not 22 comfortable with -- I shouldn't say "most of us" -- 23 some were not comfortable with it. 24 You can hand this down to Nelson. That's the 25 table of organization (SEE ATT. B). ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 14 One, two, three. 15 How many yeses? 16 We have four yeses and three nos. 17 MR. DOW: Then somebody is not voting. 18 CHR. ONO: Yeah. And the Chair would go 19 along with the higher just to reach some resolution on 20 this. 21 MR. PAVAO: I guess my argument is that you 22 don't need a qualification to be a mayor or a managing 23 director. There's no qualifications whatsoever. But 24 you need high qualifications to be police chief, public 25 works engineer, chief engineer. The degree of ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 53 1 MR. HIGGINS: Harold, so your numbers -- am I 2 getting them right -- 168- and 165-. So the mayor is 3 only worth 3,000 more, or the chief executive? I think 4 that's too close. 5 MR. DOW: Well, probably is, but I don't want 6 to go completely over the top here. 7 CHR. ONO: Well, let's do a check over 8 here. 9 First of all, at 165- and 168-, as a group, 10 do we have enough votes over here to adopt that? 11 MR. PAVAO: No. 12 MS. IKEDA: No. 13 CHR. ONO: Who is saying "No" right now? 14 One, two, three. 15 How many yeses? 16 We have four yeses and three nos. 17 MR. DOW: Then somebody is not voting. 18 CHR. ONO: Yeah. And the Chair would go 19 along with the higher just to reach some resolution on 20 this. 21 MR. PAVAO: I guess my argument is that you 22 don't need a qualification to be a mayor or a managing 23 director. There's no qualifications whatsoever. But 24 you need high qualifications to be police chief, public 25 works engineer, chief engineer. The degree of ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 54 1 education and skill is much, much higher than a mayor 2 or a managing director. I don't think that 3 consideration should be such that -- I mean, we're 4 talking about mayor's raises comparable to Oahu and far 5 beyond Maui. I don't -- I don't think that's right. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: I have a comment. When a 7 cabinet is elected -- or I should say when a mayor is 8 appointed and he appoints his cabinet, I think it's 9 beholden on the Salary Commission that we enable that 10 mayor to do the very best job that he can do for the 11 County of Hawaii; and he's going to need to appoint the 12 best people that he can appoint. And I don't think -- 13 and I'm not saying Mayor Kim or Mayor Kenoi or Mayor 14 Yamashiro, God bless his soul, but he needs to be able 15 to find those people that are qualified to take his 16 place in case he's sick or some -- because the managing 17 director will step in in the absence of the mayor. Am 18 I correct? 19 MR. BRILHANTE: That's correct. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: So that person has to be 21 qualified. So I don't think that that mayor is going 22 to pick somebody that is not qualified. 23 MR. BRILHANTE: Mr. Chair, just for your 24 information, we have had Ms. Yamada hand out what is a 25 piece of paper. is the organizational chart for the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 55 1 County of Hawaii. It's reflective of the mayor and the 2 flow chart as it relates to the subordinates under the 3 mayor and the managing director as it reflects to the 4 department heads, agency heads, and the like (SEE ATT. B) . 5 Also, just for everybody's knowledge, I did a 6 quick calculation of the difference between the salary 7 for mayor of City and County of Honolulu as well as the 8 mayor of the County of Maui, and the average between 9 the two would be a salary of 162,582, so just, again, 10 for your information. Both items are just for your 11 information. 12 CHR. ONO: I think -- you know, I think 13 that if we can agree on the mayor and the managing 14 director, come to some kind of consensus in this group, 15 it will pave the way for us to do the rest of it. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: I would like to move -- I 17 would like to make a motion that we put it to a vote. 18 MS. SELF: Well, what -- 19 MR. CAMPBELL: Say some numbers. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: We're in discussion right 21 now, so the next would be to move to a vote. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, say some numbers. 23 MS. SELF: I think what you need is a motion 24 so that you can vote on it, not a motion to vote, but a 25 motion -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 7 referring to. 8 CHR. ONO: Just have a little bit more 9 discussion. Mayor at 168- and the managing director at 10 165-. We're just trying to find a consensus right now. 11 So, Milton, did you want to suggest something 12 else? 13 MR. BRILHANTE: Mr. Chair? 14 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, Bill. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: May I interrupt? I'm going 16 to have to step out. The mayor coincidentally called a 17 special Cabinet meeting for 11:00 this morning, and he 18 said it will only be a half hour, so I will be back 19 shortly. 20 CHR. ONO: Good. We'll decide a lot 21 while you're gone. We can get some business done. 22 MR. HIGGINS: Could we take a short break? 23 CHR. ONO: Yeah, that might be a good 24 idea. Let's take a ten-minute break. Okay? 25 We're now in recess. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 56 1 MR. FRATINARDO: So Hugh's question was do we 2 support these numbers that are currently on this list, 3 correct? 4 CHR. ONO: Well, right now we're just 5 talking about the mayor and the managing director. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Those two. That's what I'm 7 referring to. 8 CHR. ONO: Just have a little bit more 9 discussion. Mayor at 168- and the managing director at 10 165-. We're just trying to find a consensus right now. 11 So, Milton, did you want to suggest something 12 else? 13 MR. BRILHANTE: Mr. Chair? 14 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, Bill. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: May I interrupt? I'm going 16 to have to step out. The mayor coincidentally called a 17 special Cabinet meeting for 11:00 this morning, and he 18 said it will only be a half hour, so I will be back 19 shortly. 20 CHR. ONO: Good. We'll decide a lot 21 while you're gone. We can get some business done. 22 MR. HIGGINS: Could we take a short break? 23 CHR. ONO: Yeah, that might be a good 24 idea. Let's take a ten-minute break. Okay? 25 We're now in recess. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 57 1 (Recess ensued from 11:13 a.m. to 11:24 a.m.) 2 CHR. ONO: Call the meeting back to 3 order. 4 We were in discussion about the mayor and the 5 managing director; and hopefully once we come to some 6 agreement on that, then we can move forward on the 7 other positions, the other positions shown on the 8 table. 9 So, let me see. We were in discussion, and it 10 would be nice if we could come to some kind of a 11 consensus over here as to what these two salaries would 12 be. And the latest thing was that Harold had suggested 13 168,000 for the mayor and 165,000 for the managing 14 director. 15 Milton, did you want to -- 16 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. I would like to recommend 17 that we stay with what Maui has, 151,979 for the mayor 18 and 141,551 for the managing director. And along with 19 that, we can apply Florence's idea about yearly 20 increases, 2 percent, 3 -- whatever we decide on; but I 21 think going 165- and 153-, personally I think it's 22 excessive. 23 CHR. ONO: Okay. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: Excuse me. Excuse me. 25 Mr. Brilhante came up with a number that the average ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 58 1 between all the counties, if we're going to be 2 comparing county to county to county, 162,582. That's 3 the number that I would go with. It was an educated 4 number that came up for Mr. Brilhante. That's the 5 number that I would go with. And then we can adjust 6 salaries moving forward. 7 MR. PAVAO: It's not an educated number. 8 It's just an average between Maui and Oahu. 9 MR. FRATINARDO: So what we have to come up 10 with, then, is the formula that we're going to use, the 11 educated formula that we're -- if that's what you're 12 saying, then we need to come up with a formula to come 13 up with a salary. That's all I'm saying. If we're 14 going to be comparing apples to oranges and then 15 Mr. Brilhante comes in and says the average of the 16 salary is $162,582, I think it's incumbent on us to 17 come up with one of these numbers, the one you're 18 suggesting or the one Mr. Brilhante is suggesting. 19 CHR. ONO: Well, let me start -- put it 20 this way. Are the members of this commission, the 21 balance, comfortable with setting the salary the same 22 as the County of Maui's for the mayor and the managing 23 director? 24 MS. IKEDA: Is that the 151-? 25 MR. HIGGINS: Are we comfortable with that? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 59 1 MR. FRATINARDO: No. 2 MR. DOW: No. 3 CHR. ONO: How many are "No" here? 4 MR. HIGGINS: I thought you were meaning 5 that -- comfortable with that as a minimum. If you 6 stated it that way, I would say yes, I'm comfortable 7 with that as a minimum, as a starting point. I don't 8 think you meant that. You meant -- 9 CHR. ONO: Yeah, no, I -- 10 MR. HIGGINS: -- just do it at that? 11 CHR. ONO: I'm just trying to find a 12 middle ground over here. It would be nice if most of 13 us, or nearly most of us, agree on something so that we 14 can move forward after that. But if we set that as a 15 minimum, is that something that -- so that our 16 discussion can move forward, is there anybody that 17 would object to that if we set that as the minimum 18 right now for discussion purposes, adopting the County 19 of Maui pay for the mayor and the managing director? 20 MS. IKEDA: Question, Hugh. If 21 we set this at these amounts, that means that we're 22 just accepting it as a beginning point, and then we 23 would then go forward as to raises for these? 24 CHR. ONO: We're talking about setting 25 this as the minimum for discussion only. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 60 1 MS. IKEDA: Discussion only. 2 Okay. 3 MR. FRATINARDO: So what Milton is saying is 4 we're going to pay the mayor less than what the police 5 chief is getting? 6 CHR. ONO: Well, that's -- this is just 7 for discussion purposes, right? And so -- 8 MR. FRATINARDO: Right, but what I'm saying 9 is when we leave here today, is the mayor going to be 10 getting -- like Dr. Dow said, pay inversion? 11 CHR. ONO: Yeah, we don't know that yet. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: So we need to address that 13 pay inversion between the mayor and the rest of his 14 appointees. 15 CHR. ONO: So, let me summarize this. As 16 of right now, for discussion purposes, if we adopted 17 the County of Maui's mayor and managing director, just 18 for discussion purposes, there's no objection to that? 19 MR. FRATINARDO: I object to it. 20 CHR. ONO: I don't think you object to 21 it, Tom, because we're talking about that as a minimum. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: Minimum. Yeah, yeah. Thank 23 you. 24 CHR. ONO: So, we agree. 25 Now let's talk about above that and where we ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 14 MR. HIGGINS: Yes. 15 CHR. ONO: One, two, three. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 17 CHR. ONO: Four. 18 MR. HARANO: Yes. 19 CHR. ONO: Five. 20 Nelson? 21 MR. HARANO: Yes. 22 CHR. ONO: So we have quite a bit of a 23 majority that's willing to adopt that. 24 So if we put that to a vote -- go ahead. 25 Yeah, no, I mean, state, you know, your objection. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 61 1 can find some ground to be more comfortable. 2 So, Bill, our ex -officio from Department of 3 Human Resources, had suggested the 162-, which is an 4 average between the City and County of Honolulu and the 5 County of Maui. 6 MS. SELF: 162,581. 7 CHR. ONO: 162,581. 8 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 9 CHR. ONO: Is this group comfortable with 10 adopting that as a minimum? 11 MR. DOW: No. 12 MS. IKEDA: I'm not. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Yes. 15 CHR. ONO: One, two, three. 16 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 17 CHR. ONO: Four. 18 MR. HARANO: Yes. 19 CHR. ONO: Five. 20 Nelson? 21 MR. HARANO: Yes. 22 CHR. ONO: So we have quite a bit of a 23 majority that's willing to adopt that. 24 So if we put that to a vote -- go ahead. 25 Yeah, no, I mean, state, you know, your objection. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 62 1 We're going to try and convince the others over here. 2 MR. DOW: Well, it appears to me that we've 3 adopted the stance that we will not accept salary 4 inversions between department heads and subordinates, 5 and yet we're willing -- seem to be willing to do it 6 when it comes to our governing officials in the County 7 and department heads. 8 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to 9 make a distinction between elected officials and 10 department heads. Department heads -- a department is 11 a career. Elected officials are elected officials. 12 You don't need quite the level of expertise or 13 education as being a mayor or a managing director as 14 you need for police chief, public works engineer, 15 whatever -- chief engineer, anything with some sort of 16 expertise that is required through schooling, through 17 education. 18 I make a big distinction between "Yeah, I 19 want to run for mayor," so I run for mayor. I don't 20 need any qualification. But I can't run for public 21 works chief engineer. I need to go to school for that. 22 I need to get a degree. I need to get a license. Big, 23 big difference. I don't think we can say that the 24 mayor and the managing director automatically needs to 25 be making more than the chief engineer. I think ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 63 1 that's -- for one thing, you choose to run. It's a 2 choice you make, to run. I don't think it's the same. 3 MS. IKEDA: Mr. Chairman? 4 CHR. ONO: Yeah, go ahead, Florence. 5 MS. IKEDA: I agree with Milton. 6 To me, essentially it comes down that whoever gets 7 elected, it becomes -- it's a popularity contest to an 8 extent, you know, because I could go -- and maybe I had 9 no qualifications whatsoever, but I was popular with 10 someone, and even with the majority; I could get 11 elected, and I would come to the office with no 12 knowledge whatsoever. And, to me, the department heads, 13 like Milton said, you need all of this education, all 14 of these licenses, and to run the department and to 15 have your County working correctly, you need such 16 people. Grant you, the mayor is the head of the 17 County, but I still view it as a popularity contest, 18 and you don't have to have all of these qualifications. 19 CHR. ONO: Okay, let's do this. Let's 20 remove the mayor's position from this; so let's just go 21 to the managing director's one, just for discussion 22 purposes, to see if we can find something for the 23 managing director. 24 For the managing director's position, we 25 agree that 141,551 is the lowest that we would ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 64 1 consider. I partially agree about elected officials. 2 I mean, when they run, they know what they're getting 3 into. But for a managing director -- Amy, do you have 4 the figure that Bill came up with? 5 MS. SELF: You mean -- oh, for the average 6 between Maui and City and County -- 7 MR. HARANO: It's close. It's close to the 8 average. 9 CHR. ONO: What is it? 10 MR. HARANO: It's close to the average. 11 CHR. ONO: You mean the 153-? 12 MR. HARANO: Yep. Very close. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: 153,611. 14 CHR. ONO: 153,611. 15 So is the group -- the consensus is we are 16 comfortable with that? 17 MR. PAVAO: With what? 18 CHR. ONO: Managing director at 153,611. 19 We're not talking about an elected official. 20 MR. HIGGINS: I'm comfortable. 21 MR. HARANO: I'm comfortable. 22 CHR. ONO: Okay. Now, we have a gap 23 between that and the 165- that Harold had suggested. 24 MR. FRATINARDO: Excuse me, Hugh. I'm sorry. 25 Can you poll each member with that last question? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 number. Page 65 1 CHR. ONO: Sure. Certainly. MR. FRATINARDO: I'm in agreement with that a CHR. ONO: Okay. This would be -- let me restate that, then. If you are comfortable with that as the minimum wage for discussion purposes for the managing director would be 153,611. MR. FRATINARDO: I'm comfortable with that. CHR. ONO: Okay. Nelson? MR. HARANO: This is the starting amount for discussion? CHR. ONO: Yes. MR. HARANO: I disagree. I feel that that should be the number. CHR. ONO: Okay. But if that's the number, that's the lowest, it would be fine with you? MR. HARANO: Yes. CHR. ONO: Okay. Harold? MR. DOW: I'm willing to discuss it, but you have already heard my -- CHR. ONO: Yeah, I know. MR. DOW: -- thoughts on it. CHR. ONO: So if that number was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 66 1 adopted -- okay. IKEDA: -- 2 Florence? point? 3 MS. IKEDA: I thought that we had 4 agreed, though, that that -- the 151- -- the 141,551 5 was the lowest amount that we would begin the 6 discussion? Is that correct? 7 CHR. ONO: But we're looking at something 8 higher now. Raising the minimum 11-12,000. 9 MR. HIGGINS: Raising higher. Raising it. 10 MS. IKEDA: We're looking -- 11 MS. SELF: It's the average between -- 12 MS. IKEDA: So we're going to 13 look -- we're going to throw out this 141,551 and then 14 consider the 153,611 -- 15 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 16 MS. IKEDA: -- as the starting 17 point? 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Minimum. 19 MS. SELF: That's the average between the 20 City and County and Maui is how they came up with it. 21 MR. HIGGINS: Raising the minimum 11-12,000. 22 MS. IKEDA: I don't agree. 23 CHR. ONO: You don't agree. 24 Milton? 25 MR. PAVAO: I definitely do not agree. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 67 1 MR. HIGGINS: I'd go for it. 2 CHR. ONO: Agree? 3 Agree? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: Agree. 5 CHR. ONO: I agree too. 6 MR. HARANO: Mr. Chairman, I would like to 7 give my reasons as why I'm comfortable with these 8 numbers that we've just discussed. It's because -- and 9 this is the reason why I asked for the organization 10 chart. But if we look at the chart, the County 11 council, the mayor, the prosecuting attorney, these 12 three, although elected, they represent the three 13 branches of government and they should be compensated 14 the most. And everyone else, including the managing 15 detector, goes below that amount. That's what I see on 16 the organization chart. It's something that is black 17 and white, and I can see this just as much as the 18 police chief is under -- you know, like the third 19 tier -- second tier. 20 MR. CAMPBELL: Mr. Chair, are you ready to 21 receive a motion or not? 22 CHR. ONO: Make a motion, please. 23 MR. CAMPBELL: I would like to move that we 24 set the mayor's salary at the average between Maui and 25 the City and County of Honolulu at 161,581 -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 MS. SELF: 162-. 2 MR. CAMPBELL: 163-? Pardon me. 3 MS. SELF: It's 162-. 4 MR. CAMPBELL: Whatever that number is. 5 MS. SELF: 162,581. 6 CHR. ONO: Okay. 7 MR. CAMPBELL: And the average between the 8 City and County and Maui for the managing director, 9 which would be -- 10 MS. SELF: 153,611. 11 MR. CAMPBELL: -- 153,611. 12 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's been moved. 13 Do we have a second? 14 MR. FRATINARDO: I second. 15 CHR. ONO: Moved and seconded. 16 Chair believes that we've had enough 17 discussion on this, so I'm going to call for the 18 question. Let's do it by roll call vote, starting on 19 the left with -- 20 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, I hate to disagree, 21 but in any motion, you need a discussion. You can't 22 just -- 23 MS. SELF: Yeah, you need a discussion. 24 CHR. ONO: I agree with you. Okay. Open 25 for discussion. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 69 1 MR. PAVAO: Nobody else wants to discuss, 2 I'll discuss it. I think this is excessive, very 3 excessive. Again, I go back to my example. I can be 4 high school graduate, run for mayor, get elected. As 5 long as I hire key people with education and 6 qualifications for the particular department I would 7 select them for, I would rely on their expertise in 8 making decisions, which is basically what the mayor 9 does. 10 To put the mayor far ahead of anybody else 11 with the education and degrees necessary -- and 12 experience -- I personally think we're doing this 13 County a disservice by doing this. I think it's 14 excessive, it puts a burden on the finances, and I 15 don't think it sends the right message. That's my 16 opinion. And for those reasons, I definitely will be 17 voting no. 18 CHR. ONO: Thank you. 19 MS. IKEDA: Hugh? 20 CHR. ONO: Florence. 21 MS. IKEDA: What I want to know, 22 because you folks are going to set it for the managing 23 director at 153,611, is this a beginning point? And 24 how long is this amount going to last for? Is this for 25 a year? Is this for two years? Is this for three ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 years? Page 70 CHR. ONO: We haven't set the effective date yet, so... MS. IKEDA: Right. So this is the starting point, but what are we looking at, you know, for the length of time? Do we increase it or what? That's another question. CHR. ONO: Yeah. MS. IKEDA: How long are you going to go for that? I'm not in agreement with this, like Milton, but that's my opinion. But I'm just saying this is the starting point. What will be the ending point? CHR. ONO: Well, the ending point will be determined when we start getting into Tier 2 and what is going to happen with the impact of collective bargaining changes with these salaries; so we don't know that yet. MS. IKEDA: So you're considering this as -- he's the managing director -- as Tier 1 and not Tier 2. Is that correct? CHR. ONO: This is part of the Tier 1 process. MR. FRATINARDO: I think the Chair's opinion, also, was for us to -- and we have to put that into ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 71 1 perspective -- is to correct those deficiencies that 2 have been in existence for so long. So I just wanted 3 to throw that out there also. 4 CHR. ONO: The current salary, the 5 managing director, is 118,000, so, you know, there are 6 department heads getting paid about 150,000 or 152,000; 7 so that would be a substantial inversion. So this 8 would close that inversion and at least provide some 9 rationale for equity. So it's in the ballpark. You 10 know, while it's not more, it's in the same ballpark. 11 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, but then again, should we 12 even consider inversion on elected officials? 13 MS. IKEDA: Elected officials. 14 That's crazy. 15 MR. PAVAO: That's not inversion. I can see 16 inversion in departments, but elected officials 17 compared to department heads, I don't think that's an 18 inversion. 19 CHR. ONO: Okay. So, if we amended this 20 motion so that it was just for the managing director, 21 is that something that you would be comfortable with, 22 Milton? 23 MR. PAVAO: At what salary? 24 CHR. ONO: 153,611. 25 MR. PAVAO: No. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 72 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Can we call for the question 2 on the motion that's on the floor? 3 CHR. ONO: I want to make sure the 4 discussion is finished. 5 Any further discussion? 6 Okay, we're going to call for the question by 7 roll call vote. Start with Nelson first. 8 MR. HARANO: I am in favor of the 153- 9 amount. 10 CHR. ONO: Thomas? 11 MS. SELF: Well, wait a minute. You have to 12 vote on the motion. 13 MR. HIGGINS: Motion is for both. 14 MR. CAMPBELL: The two positions. 15 MR. HIGGINS: The two positions. 16 MR. HARANO: I'm in favor. 17 CHR. ONO: Aye. 18 MR. CAMPBELL: Say "Aye." 19 MR. FRATINARDO: District 1. I'm in favor. 20 CHR. ONO: Harold? 21 MR. DOW: Yes. 22 CHR. ONO: Florence? 23 MS. IKEDA: I vote no. 24 CHR. ONO: Milton? 25 MR. PAVAO: No. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 73 1 MR. HIGGINS: Yes. 2 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 3 CHR. ONO: And Chair votes nay, but the 4 motion passes. 5 Okay. So that as a result of that, we have 6 the mayor's salary at 162,581 and the managing director 7 at 153,611. 8 At this point, do we want to set an effective 9 date for this? And that would set the basis for the 10 rest of that. Do that next, whatever the effective 11 date would be? 12 MR. FRATINARDO: The mayor's wishes were that 13 we wait on their salaries, I believe, until the next 14 fiscal year or to the next budget. 15 CHR. ONO: July 1st? 16 MR. FRATINARDO: July 1st. That's what he 17 relayed. That's what I would -- I would go along with 18 his wishes. 19 CHR. ONO: You also heard me ask the 20 finance director if we picked any date in between, 21 whether it would be financed or not, and she did say 22 yes; so, you know, we may want to pick something in 23 between for this group here so they don't have to wait 24 until the beginning of the year. So if someone wants 25 to suggest a date other than that. Otherwise, you can ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 14 something. 15 MS. SAKAMOTO: Jennifer Sakamoto from the 16 Department of Human Resources. 17 I just wanted to clarify that -- are we able 18 to still make adjustments to the salary just for 19 payroll purposes? 20 CHR. ONO: Yes. 21 MS. SAKAMOTO: Okay. 22 CHR. ONO: We did that before -- 23 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yeah. 24 CHR. ONO: -- to make it come out so that 25 the pay period, it matches up -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 74 1 make a motion for that date, Tom. 2 MR. PAVAO: I think she also mentioned one of 3 the key dates would be March. March something. She 4 also -- did Deanna also mention that? 5 CHR. ONO: No, I asked that. 6 MR. PAVAO: Oh, you did? 7 CHR. ONO: I asked that, "So what if we 8 did it in March?" 9 MR. PAVAO: And she said it was okay? 10 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 11 Jennifer? Yes. 12 MS. SAKAMOTO: Just one thing. 13 CHR. ONO: Looks like you want to say 14 something. 15 MS. SAKAMOTO: Jennifer Sakamoto from the 16 Department of Human Resources. 17 I just wanted to clarify that -- are we able 18 to still make adjustments to the salary just for 19 payroll purposes? 20 CHR. ONO: Yes. 21 MS. SAKAMOTO: Okay. 22 CHR. ONO: We did that before -- 23 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yeah. 24 CHR. ONO: -- to make it come out so that 25 the pay period, it matches up -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 75 1 MS. SAKAMOTO: Correct. Because when I look 2 at these numbers, it doesn't look like it's going to 3 calculate evenly. 4 CHR. ONO: We did that last time. 5 MS. SAKAMOTO: That's all I wanted to add. 6 Okay, thank you. 7 CHR. ONO: Let's make a motion for Human 8 Resources to adjust the salary so it comes out with 9 equal payments on their pay periods. 10 MR. PAVAO: I make a motion to allow the 11 Department of Finance to readjust the salary that we 12 agreed to so that it becomes manageable in 24 -payment 13 increments. 14 CHR. ONO: Do we have a second? 15 MS. IKEDA: I second. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. We have a moved and 17 seconded, moved by Milton and seconded by Florence, 18 that we allow the Department of Human Resources to make 19 adjustments. 20 Any discussion? 21 MR. HARANO: Yes. When is the effective 22 date? 23 CHR. ONO: We don't have that yet. That 24 will be our next thing to discuss. It's just to allow 25 them to make the adjustment. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 76 1 MR. HARANO: Okay. 2 CHR. ONO: Okay? 3 Okay. All those in favor say "Aye." 4 (All members responded affirmatively.) 5 CHR. ONO: Those opposed? 6 Motion is carried. 7 Okay, Jennifer. 8 Now back to the effective date. If someone 9 wants to make a motion as to the effective date to 10 begin the discussion. 11 MR. FRATINARDO: District 1 would like to 12 make a motion to determine the effective date of these 13 salaries. 14 CHR. ONO: Thomas, would you furnish a 15 date? We are going to discuss it anyway, but we need a 16 date. When would you like to vote? 17 MR. FRATINARDO: July lst, the start of the 18 new fiscal year. 19 MS. SELF: Yes. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: July lst. 21 CHR. ONO: Do we have a motion -- 22 MR. HIGGINS: Normally I would go with what 23 the mayor said about it, but after hearing Ms. -- what 24 is her name -- Ms. Sako that the amount of money -- 25 basically a lot of the money has been set aside, I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 16 CHR. Page 77 1 would recommend that those folks get their pay raise 2 immediately. That was your 3 MS. IKEDA: But the motion -- 4 MR. FRATINARDO: Can I recall my motion? 5 MS. SELF: You have a motion on the table. 6 You don't have a second. So, either you have to have a 7 second or you have to withdraw. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: I withdraw my motion. 9 CHR. ONO: Motion is withdrawn. 10 Do you have another motion you want to make? 11 MR. FRATINARDO: With Mr. Higgins, I would 12 like to make a motion to -- I would like to amend my 13 motion for Deanna Sako's original date, which was -- 14 was that -- 25 15 MR. CAMPBELL: March 1. 16 CHR. ONO: That was -- 17 MS. SELF: That was your date. 18 CHR. ONO: But if March 1 is fine, we can 19 use that date too. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: March 1. 21 CHR. ONO: Okay. 22 MR. HARANO: Second. 23 MS. SELF: Just for the record, so you 24 withdrew your original motion; so you made a new motion 25 to make the effective date for the mayor's salary and ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 78 1 the managing director 2 MR. FRATINARDO: Based on Deanna Sako's 3 input. 4 MS. SELF: -- to begin March 1st -- 5 MR. FRATINARDO: Correct. 6 MS. SELF: -- 2018? 7 MR. FRATINARDO: Correct. 8 MS. SELF: And is there a second? 9 MR. HIGGINS: I'll second that. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's been moved and 11 seconded by Thomas and Jim to make the effective date 12 for the mayor and managing director at this salary 13 scheduled March 1st, 2018. 14 Any discussion? 15 Not hearing, all those in favor say "Aye." 16 (The majority of the members responded 17 affirmatively.) 18 CHR. ONO: Lots of "Ayes." 19 Nay? 20 MR. PAVAO: Nay. 21 CHR. ONO: Let's do a roll call vote on 22 this. Okay? 23 Nelson? 24 MR. HARANO: I am in opposition. 25 CHR. ONO: Thomas? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 79 1 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm in favor. 2 CHR. ONO: Harold? 3 MR. DOW: Yes. 4 CHR. ONO: Florence? 5 MS. IKEDA: Nay. No. 6 CHR. ONO: Milton? 7 MR. PAVAO: Abstain. 8 MR. HIGGINS: In favor. 9 CHR. ONO: George? 10 MR. CAMPBELL: In favor. 11 CHR. ONO: And the Chair votes aye. 12 This is the Chair's wish, that -- you know, 13 we have difference in voting over here, but I would 14 sure hope that we can treat the decision as, you know, 15 a group decision and, hopefully, find some comfort level 16 so that we're not out there badmouthing each other. 17 You know, it is part of the process. 18 And, anyway, that being said, why don't -- we 19 have ten minutes more. And what do you want to do? 20 What is the commission's desire on the rest of these 21 positions shown here? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Well, from a discussion 23 standpoint, it appears to me that you have done a 24 reasonable job of comparing or matching them to the 25 existing salaries; and so I'd like to move that for the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 80 1 rest of the salaries, that we adopt the rest of the 2 salaries as presented in Column 7 of the chart you 3 presented to us (SEE ATT. A). 4 CHR. ONO: Okay. We have a motion to 5 adopt the rest of the salaries in Column 7 for the rest 6 of the positions there. Do we have a second? 7 MR. HIGGINS: Second. 8 CHR. ONO: Okay. Open for discussion. 9 Any discussion? Okay. 10 MR. DOW: I think Information Technology 11 should be brought up to 126,420. 12 CHR. ONO: Okay. 13 MR. CAMPBELL: The motioner could accept that 14 as an amendment. 15 CHR. ONO: Okay. 16 MS. SELF: Yes. You had an original motion 17 on the table, right? 18 CHR. ONO: Yes. 19 MS. SELF: So -- 20 CHR. ONO: So you need to amend that, 21 right? 22 MS. SELF: -- either need to amend it or get 23 a second, take a vote, it fails, then you can make a 24 new motion to include. 25 CHR. ONO: I don't think anybody has any ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 81 1 heartburn with that. We'll see where the discussion 2 takes us. 3 Can we amend the motion? Who made the 4 motion? George? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, we can amend the motion. 6 CHR. ONO: Okay. So that would change -- 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Harold's number. 8 CHR. ONO: -- the director of Information 9 Technology to 126,420. 10 MS. SELF: You need a second. 11 CHR. ONO: Do we have a second? 12 MR. HIGGINS: Second. 13 CHR. ONO: Okay. 14 MS. SELF: So this will be a vote on the 15 amendment. So you have to vote on the amendment first, 16 and then if that passes, then you are back to the main 17 motion. 18 CHR. ONO: Any discussion on the amended 19 motion? 20 MR. DOW: Information Technologies up to 21 126-. 22 CHR. ONO: Okay. All those in favor of 23 the amendment, say "Aye." 24 (The majority of the members responded 25 affirmatively.) ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 Any opposed, "Nay"? 2 MR. PAVAO: Nay. 3 CHR. ONO: Okay. Now we're in discussion 4 for the amended motion. Am I correct? 5 MS. SELF: Right. For the -- 6 CHR. ONO: For the change that we made. 7 MR. HIGGINS: He was a nay, by the way. 8 CHR. ONO: Oh, Milton was -- 9 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 10 CHR. ONO: Any discussion? 11 Right now, we have the rest of the salaries 12 shown as deputy managing director 132- in line No. 3 13 all the way down to the deputy of Research and 14 Development at 113,778, with the change for the 15 director of Information Technologies to 126,420. 16 Discussion? 17 MR. FRATINARDO: I would like -- I have a 18 question for the Chair. For our director of info. 19 technologies, this's no comparable salary there, to the 20 other counties, and I was just wondering do they not 21 have? 22 CHR. ONO: I do not know, Thomas. 23 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm just wondering. 24 CHR. ONO: I think they might be within 25 the Department of Finance for different counties. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 83 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay. Okay. 2 MR. PAVAO: I'm sure they do. It's probably 3 just called something different. 4 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. Yeah. 5 CHR. ONO: Maybe we can ask our interim 6 director here. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: He's back. 8 CHR. ONO: If you're aware or not, Bill, 9 on the director of information technologies, are there 10 positions that are within other counties? 11 MR. BRILHANTE: My understanding is that 12 there are positions. I think we looked at it to a 13 certain extent when the request several months ago came 14 up with creating a deputy position for IT. So I'm 15 going to have Ms. Jennifer Sakamoto come up. She's our 16 Classification and Pay Division head, so she can 17 provide an answer. 18 MS. SAKAMOTO: Jennifer Sakamoto, Department 19 of Human Resources. 20 So back on the November 27th (sic.)meeting tab, 21 there was a -- we did an updated comparison chart for 22 you folks that identified across the different 23 jurisdictions. So if you look at that chart, under 24 "Information Technology," the other jurisdiction that 25 has a IT director would be the City and County of ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 84 1 Honolulu at 154,728 (SEE ATT. C). 2 CHR. ONO: Okay. That's good. 3 MS. SAKAMOTO: You can refer back to that and 4 see. 5 CHR. ONO: You got that, Thomas? Tom? 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Is that this one? 7 MS. SAKAMOTO: I'm not sure if that's the 8 exact same one. 9 CHR. ONO: City and County of Honolulu. 10 They should have a similar position at 150 -something. 11 MR. FRATINARDO: Got you. Okay. 12 MS. SAKAMOTO: Do you see it? Yeah. 13 CHR. ONO: That provides you probably 14 enough to be comfortable, huh? 15 MR. FRATINARDO: Yep. 16 CHR. ONO: Any discussion? 17 Okay. If not, let's do this by roll call 18 again. 19 Nelson? 20 MS. IKEDA: Question: So what 21 we're going to do is we're going to approve this amount 22 first and then the starting date on another one? 23 CHR. ONO: Yes. 24 MS. IKEDA: Okay. 25 MS. SELF: Let me reiterate the motion that ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 85 1 you are voting on now is the main motion where you are 2 voting to adopt all the remaining suggested salaries 3 under Priority C, with the amended salary of the IT 4 director to be 126,420, correct? 5 CHR. ONO: Correct. 6 MS. SELF: Okay. 7 CHR. ONO: Okay. 8 MR. HARANO: I'm in favor of the motion. 9 CHR. ONO: That's an aye. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: Aye. 11 MR. DOW: Aye. 12 CHR. ONO: Florence? 13 MS. IKEDA: I'll go aye. 14 CHR. ONO: Milton? 15 MR. PAVAO: Opposed. 16 MR. HIGGINS: Aye. 17 MR. CAMPBELL: Aye. 18 CHR. ONO: And the Chair votes aye, so 19 the motion is passed. 20 And now the next thing is to set the 21 effective date for these positions. 22 Motion, please? 23 MS. IKEDA: I move that we make 24 the effective date July lst, 2018. 25 CHR. ONO: Okay. Any second on that? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 MR. HARANO: I so move. 2 CHR. ONO: Is that second? 3 MR. HARANO: Yes. 4 CHR. ONO: Okay. It's moved and seconded 5 that we set it at July lst, 2018. 6 Discussion? 7 The motion was made by Florence, seconded by 8 Nelson. 9 Okay. 10 MR. PAVAO: Yes, comment. Would you 11 reconsider your motion to make it coincide with what we 12 approved for the mayor and managing director so that 13 it's all consistent? 14 MR. FRATINARDO: Is this discussion? Yeah. 15 CHR. ONO: Question from Milton. 16 MS. IKEDA: Well, I frankly, with 17 the mayor and everything, I really wanted it in July, 18 because I work fiscally with the State, and it's so 19 much easier for everybody to have it on July lst when 20 the new fiscal year begins. 21 MR. PAVAO: So I guess that's a no. 22 MS. SELF: Right now, you have a motion on 23 the table. 24 MS. IKEDA: Yeah. 25 MS. SELF: So if you don't get a second, I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 87 1 would suggest that it kills the motion. 2 CHR. ONO: No, we've got a second. 3 MS. SELF: You have a second? 4 CHR. ONO: We do have a second. 5 MR. FRATINARDO: So it's for discussion now? 6 CHR. ONO: Yes. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: So he's discussing. 8 CHR. ONO: So we have a disagreement to 9 some degree that it should be consistent with the other 10 motion that we passed for a March lst effective date. 11 I'm going to ask for discussion one more time 12 before we call for the question on the original motion, 13 which sets it for July lst, 2018. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Well, for me, it's not a matter 15 of whether it's convenient or not. The fact is that we 16 voted these pay raises, and these people deserve it as 17 soon as possible. 18 MR. FRATINARDO: We need to show continuity 19 with our decisions, I think. And I'm for what we voted 20 on with the mayor and the managing director. 21 CHR. ONO: Okay. With that, I'm going to 22 call for the question again. 23 The question is setting the date to July lst, 24 2018. 25 Nelson? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 MR. HARANO: I vote aye. 2 CHR. ONO: Thomas? 3 MR. FRATINARDO: District 1, aye. 4 CHR. ONO: Harold? 5 MR. DOW: No. 6 CHR. ONO: Florence? 7 MS. IKEDA: No. 8 MR. PAVAO: No. 9 CHR. ONO: Wait a minute. No, there's 10 something goofy going on over here. 11 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, something is not right. 12 CHR. ONO: Let me restate it. 13 The motion is to set the effective date for 14 July 1st, 2018. 15 MS. IKEDA: Oh, okay. We're 16 getting mixed up. 17 CHR. ONO: That was the original motion. 18 It was seconded by Nelson. 19 So, with that, we had the discussion, and this 20 other date was brought in of March 1st, 2018. 21 So, let's do that voting over for the year, 22 whether you're in favor of July 1st or not. 23 So Nelson? 24 MR. HARANO: I'm in favor of July 1st, 2018. 25 CHR. ONO: Thomas? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Nay. 2 CHR. ONO: Harold? 3 MR. DOW: No. 4 CHR. ONO: Florence? 5 MS. IKEDA: Yes. 6 MR. PAVAO: No. 7 MR. HIGGINS: No. 8 MR. CAMPBELL: No. 9 CHR. ONO: And the Chair votes no. 10 So the motion -- 11 MS. SELF: Failed. 12 CHR. ONO: -- has not carried. 13 MS. SELF: Yes, the motion fails; so now you 14 need a new motion. 15 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to 16 have the effective date coincide with the effective 17 date of the mayor and the managing director. 18 CHR. ONO: Which is? 19 MR. PAVAO: March -- 20 CHR. ONO: 1st, 2018. 21 Do we have a second on that? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Second. 23 CHR. ONO: Moved by Milton and seconded 24 by George that we make the effective date March 1st, 25 2018. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 90 1 Discussion? 2 MR. HARANO: Yeah. I would like to make -- 3 just make a point from the public's point of view. I'm 4 speaking with, like I said, people that I know. Quite 5 the comment is going to be, "Well, what did the mayor 6 do to deserve this raise midterm?" That's why I want 7 to push it back to July lst, the start of the new 8 fiscal year. 9 CHR. ONO: Okay. Any further discussion? 10 Tom, you look like you want to say something. 11 MR. FRATINARDO: My original recommendation 12 was to do with the mayor's wishes. I think he may 13 have -- I mean, and I would like to be able to consider 14 his feelings. And he's looking at it from a fiscal 15 point of view, like Florence was just saying earlier. 16 But I'm also -- you know, Deanna also said that the 17 money is there. And that's basically what we -- we 18 made our decisions on the other salaries based on the 19 testimony of Deanna from the first place; so I'm going 20 to stick with what Deanna is telling us, and I would 21 prefer to go with her advice. She is the money 22 manager. She knows where it's at. So I just go with 23 what her -- excuse me -- with her advice -- 24 CHR. ONO: Okay. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: -- what she recommends. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 91 1 CHR. ONO: Any other comments? 2 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. I would strongly recommend 3 we do it coinciding with the mayor and deputy. To do 4 so otherwise will kind of decrease the credibility of 5 this body, and I think we need to be consistent and 6 credible. 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 8 MR. PAVAO: So I would suggest that we stay 9 with March 1st. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. Any other discussion? 11 If not, let's call for the question. 12 Nelson? 13 MR. HARANO: Nay. 14 CHR. ONO: Thomas? 15 MR. FRATINARDO: For continuity's sake, aye. 16 MR. DOW: Aye. 17 CHR. ONO: Florence? 18 MS. IKEDA: Abstain. 19 MR. PAVAO: Aye. 20 CHR. ONO: Milton? 21 MR. PAVAO: Aye. 22 MR. HIGGINS: Aye. 23 MR. CAMPBELL: Aye. 24 CHR. ONO: And the Chair votes aye. 25 So the motion is passed. So these pay ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 92 1 raises, as set with the changes that we have made, will 2 become effective on March 3rd. And, of course, I think 3 our original motion still holds, Jennifer, so if 4 there's some adjustments that need to be made to make 5 it come out, you know, right... 6 MS. YAMADA: I think you said March 3rd. 7 CHR. ONO: March 1st. I'm sorry. 8 MS. SELF: March 1st. 9 CHR. ONO: Sometimes what I'm thinking 10 and what comes out is very different. Not sometimes; 11 all the time. 12 MR. PAVAO: That could be dangerous. 13 MR. HIGGINS: He is dangerous. 14 CHR. ONO: I'm glad you guys are starting 15 to recognize that. 16 Okay. Moving on with the agenda. You know, 17 we accomplished a lot, which allows us to move on to 18 other things; but being that the hour is now a little 19 bit after 12:00, there is another item over here which 20 I think we can dispose of. It's the second bullet, 21 which is discussion regarding recent salary increases 22 approved by the commission's December 21st, 2017 23 meeting concerning the Department's Planning and Human 24 Resources as well as the salary increases approved on 25 November 27th concerning the Department of Parks and ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 93 1 Recreation. And I think this was placed here at 2 Milton's request. So this would be going retroactive 3 back to discussion of the effective date. 4 And I think that it has now become a moot 5 issue because once we've adopted it, it's done, so -- 6 MR. CAMPBELL: The money is there. 7 CHR. ONO: So any objection if we remove 8 this from the agenda? 9 MR. PAVAO: No. 10 CHR. ONO: Okay. The next item is 11 discussion concerning proposals for Tier 2. And I'm 12 going to defer this to the next meeting. 13 And the next thing we'll do is try and 14 schedule a meeting date for our future meeting. When 15 we circulated the dates of February 21st and 28th, 16 there were some problems with that, so may I ask that 17 you look at your calendars now and -- 18 MR. FRATINARDO: Can I ask why we're going 19 to -- so this was to discuss Mr. Brilhante's salary? 20 Weren't we going to -- weren't we going to look at -- 21 I'm sorry -- Human Resources' salary? Didn't that come 22 up for discussion last time about we weren't satisfied 23 with that? 24 CHR. ONO: No, we changed it. 25 MR. FRATINARDO: We did change it. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 94 1 MR. CAMPBELL: We took care of it. 2 CHR. ONO: Why, do you want to change it 3 again? 4 And it's not -- 5 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm having a moment, too. 6 CHR. ONO: Correction. It is not his 7 salary. 8 MR. FRATINARDO: Correct. 9 CHR. ONO: It's the position. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: It's the position. Yes. 11 And I was corrected last time. Thank you. 12 CHR. ONO: Okay. So it would be nice if 13 we could find a cycle kind of date that suits this 14 commission's schedule, like the third Wednesday of 15 every month. But I've heard, for some, Wednesday is 16 not really a great day, so -- and, Glynis, you have to 17 help us with this, okay, because we don't know your 18 other commissions. And Amy, too, you guys have other 19 commissions, yeah. 20 Can the Chair suggest something in the 21 third -- I like the fourth week of the month. But is 22 there a day in there that works good, like the -- 23 MS. IKEDA: Fourth Thursday looks 24 good. 25 CHR. ONO: The fourth Thursday? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 95 1 MR. CAMPBELL: What do you do in February, 2 then? 3 CHR. ONO: Huh? 4 MR. CAMPBELL: There isn't any fourth 5 Thursday in February. 6 MR. HIGGINS: No, there is. 7 MR. CAMPBELL: Oh, 22nd. Yeah. 8 MR. HIGGINS: That's good by me. 9 CHR. ONO: Fourth Thursday of every month 10 work? 11 Glynis, is that going to work for you? 12 Glynis has asked that in the future, we can 13 go forth with the fourth Thursday of each month. 14 However, for this coming month in February, that does 15 not work for her, so she is -- what are you suggesting? 16 Friday, Glynis? 17 MR. PAVAO: How about Wednesday? 18 MS. SELF: We have MAB on Wednesday. 19 CHR. ONO: Okay. Does Wednesday work? 20 MR. HIGGINS: The 21st? 21 CHR. ONO: Yes. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: I'm gone the whole week, so it 23 doesn't make any difference to me. I won't be here. 24 CHR. ONO: You'll be here? 25 MR. CAMPBELL: I will not be here. I'll be ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 96 1 on the mainland. 2 CHR. ONO: That is not a good excuse. 3 14th? 4 MR. HIGGINS: He'll be here the week -- 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Valentine's Day will be a good 6 day for it. 7 CHR. ONO: Glynis? 14th? 8 MS. YAMADA: 14th of February looks 9 available. 10 MR. PAVAO: Okay. 11 MS. YAMADA: The 15th is taken, though. 12 CHR. ONO: 14th? Okay, we love the 14th, 13 Valentine's Day. 14 MR. PAVAO: And Glynis will bring us all 15 flowers. 16 MR. HARANO: We'll give flowers to Glynis. 17 CHR. ONO: The next meeting is scheduled 18 for the 14th. 19 And before we call for adjournment, there was 20 something that was handed out to you. And, Glynis, did 21 you print that up and hand it out, that proposed for 22 discussion for the Tier 2 (SEE ATT. D)? 23 MS. YAMADA: Yes. It's in the folder, the 24 green folders. 25 CHR. ONO: It's in the green folders. So ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 97 1 you folks might want to take that out, take it home 2 with you, and take a look at it. And, again, it's just 3 a suggestion to begin the discussion for what happens 4 to all these pay raises that we've approved when 5 collective bargaining changes take effect in the 6 future. 7 Okay. Anything else? Any agenda items for 8 next meeting? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Don't forget to fill out your 10 ethics letter. They're due at the end of the month. 11 it's in the folder. 12 MR. PAVAO: It's in the green folder? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: It's in the green folder, and 14 they are due at the end of the month. 15 CHR. ONO: What I will do is I will e-mail 16 that thing that I was talking about out to you. Okay? 17 Okay. If not, motion to adjourn? 18 MS. IKEDA: So moved. 19 CHR. ONO: Florence moves. 20 Any second? 21 MR. PAVAO: Second. 22 CHR. ONO: And I thought we weren't going 23 to have a second. 24 Moved by Florence, seconded by Milton. 25 All those in favor say "Aye." ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 98 1 (All members responded affirmatively.) 2 CHR. ONO: Motion carried. Meeting is 3 adjourned. 4 (The meeting was adjourned at 12:10 p.m.) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 99 1 STATE OF HAWAII 2 ss - 3 COUNTY OF HAWAII 4 5 I, TERI HOSKINS, a certified court 6 reporter in the State of Hawaii, do hereby certify 7 that the foregoing pages are a true and correct 8 transcription of the proceedings in the above matter. 9 10 Dated this 1st day of February, 2018. 11 12 13 TViKi Hoski RMR, CSR No. 452 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING&TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Ms. Teri Hoskins, Certified Court Reporter, transcribed the aforementioned proceedings of the Salary Commission at its meeting held on January 18, 2018. Glynis Yamada, Secretary, Salary Commission, had incorporated some minor formatting/housekeeping revisions throughout the transcript. (Note: Also present at the meeting were: Peter Sur and Glynis Yamada.) Respectfully Submitted, i fg i 14u, (dakkaik) Glynis Yamada, Secretary APPROVED: ,__ frfe7liGe. aLa.-- Hugh Y. Ono, P. E., Chair Salary Commission ev c m m v . 3 E Lo PI C .r V n C.N E N N i > 3 3 IL f E 53, H a °. ¢y E v N r. °a `` u c V° « N cc S i • o N m 4 H n m In ys �w I m O O W I- V U n a 1 0 > 2 0 n N •Ni '-1 W t Q U e 0 1.4 Vtn.V} m � J O N ¢ o_ ai ¢ •O N a a a z i a N CU d N 7 N in O W N W CO CO CO CO 00 -C V Z R CO.-1inc VN1 O Z 1 N 00 n W n W -Y m N O L oc CO in `� 2 ° ti a in 00n in or L N `� d N Lo N FN 0 u GL N N .--I CL E N N v1 O Li E Ul U)V1 N N N V O u O C F. V '= V - V � C O; - v O N M O N n N 0 o t w �' rho o m M n m .y W 1°n 1 �' n M • h 10 0 .. d o Z M in In :n to Q 2 O. 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O. O 0 0 I ICounty of Hawaii iOrganization Chart ICounty Electorate IlCounty Council Mayor Prosecuting Attorney 1 County Legislative Office of Management: Clerk Auditor Managing Director 1 I Departments under Agencies under Departments under direct supervision of the direct supervision of the commissions and Managing Director: Managing Director: administrative supervision iof the Mayor: Corporation Counsel Civil Defense Human Resources Finance Office of Aging Police Planning Mass Transit Liquor Control I Environmental Management Office of Housing& Fire Water&Development Community Development Supply Public Works (semi-autonomous) 1 Parks &Recreation Information Technology I I I I I ATT. B IPresented: 01/18/18 J - 9 - Submitted by the Department of Human Resources Executive Salary Jurisdiction Comparisons POSITIONS STATE"' C&C HONOLULU HAWAII MAUI KAUAI" EFFECTIVE DATES EXCEPT 7/1/17 7/1/17 711114 7/1/16 711/17 AS NOTED: _ - GOVERNOR $155,592 r LT.GOVERNOR $151,776 ADMIN DIRECTOR of the STATE $151,776 MAYOR $173,184 $132,000 $151,979 $132,000 M.D./ADMIN ASS'T,DIR. $165,672 $119,004 $141,551 $122,536 DEPUTY M.D. $157,056 $115,008 $127,398 PROS ATTY $164,136 $113,580 $142,306 $119,357 1ST DEPUTY PA $156,072 $107,904 $135,190 $114,582 DEPUTIES:PA,Corp Counsel $54,912-$152,384(PA) $56,790•$102,222 $97,325-$113,154 $109,560 $69,816•Salary of the Corporation Counsel DEPT.HEADS GAGS,DBEDT,DCCA,DHHL,DHS, $144,552 DLIR,DLNR,DOA,DOH,DOT,PSD, TAX BUDGET&FINANCE $151,776 $154,728 $110,244 $131,118 $119,357 ATTORNEY GENERALCORP COUNSEL $151,776 $154,728 $110.244 $142,306 3119.357 HUMAN RESOURCES $144,552 $154,728 $99,000 $127,512 $114582 INFO TECH $154,728 $99,000 POLICE $191,184 $130,818 $151,200 $127,313 FIRE $185,112 $130,818' $151,200 $127,313' MEDICAL EXAMINER $288,192 EMERGENCY SERVICES $154,728 PLANNING $154,728 $99,000 $130,732 $119,357 PUBLIC WORKS $110,244 $139,232 $119,357 DESIGN&CONSTRUCTION $154,728 FACILITIES MAINTENANCE $154,728 ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES $154,728 $110,244 $139,232 LIQUOR $99,000 $132,432 $109,560 WATER $177,551(+) $121,000(+)(01101/17) $135,884 $119,357 CUSTOMER SERVICES $154,728 ENTERPRISE SERVICES $154,728 HOUSING $99,000 $127,769(8 HC) $114,582 LAND MANAGEMENT $154,728 PARKS $154,728 $99,000 $128,542 $119,357 RESEARCH&DEVJECONOMIC DEV. $99,000 $109,560 ROYAL HAWAIIAN BAND $136,512 TRANSPORTATION $154,728 $120,299 DEPUTIES RAGS,DBEDT,DCCA,DHHL,DHS, $125,748-$132,972 DLIR,DLNR,DOA,DOH,DOT.PSD TAX BUDGET&FINANCE $132,048•$139,832 $146,808 $104,502 $118,006' $114,582 1ST DEPUTY AG/CORP COUNSEL $132,048-$139,632 $146,808 $104,502 $135,190 $114,582I't:.., HUMAN RESOURCES $125,748•$132,972 $148,808 $94,284 $114,760 INFO TECH $146,808 POLICE $182,352 $126,894 $143,640 $114,582 FIRE $176,544 $126,894' $143,640 $114,582' MEDICAL EXAMINER $230,592 EMERGENCY SERVICES $146,808 PLANNING $146,808 $94,284 $117,659 $109,560 PUBLIC WORKS $104,502 $125,310 $114.582 DESIGN&CONSTRUCTION $146,808 FACILITIES MAINTENANCE $146,808 ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT $146,808 $104,502 $125,310 LIQUOR $119,188 WATER 169480(+) $110;000(4101/01/11) $121,288 $114,582 CUSTOMER SERVICES $146,808 ENTERPRISE SERVICES $146,808 HOUSING $114,992(&HC) LAND MANAGEMENT $146,808 PARKS $146,808 $94,284 $115,688 $114,582 RESEARCH&DEV/ECONOMIC DEV. $94,284 TRANSPORTATION $146,808 $108,269 LEGISLATIVE BRANCH 1/1/17 7/1/17 7/1/2014 7/1/2013 12/1/20.09 SPEAKERS/PRES $68,880 MEMBERS HSE/SEN $61,380 COUNCIL CHAIRPERSON $71,520 $58,008 $82,225 $63,879 COUNCIL MEMBERS $64,008 $52,008 $76,475 $56,781 COUNTY CLERK $99,000 $119,357 DEPUTY COUNTY CLERK $94,284 $114,582 COUNTY AUDITOR $99,000 $117,000 $119,357 • Hawaii Fire includes Emergency Medical Services and Ocean Safety;Kauai Fire includes Ocean Safe ATT. C "Salaries for the County of Kaua'i reflects the maximum salary each position may be compensated at. The respective appointing authority may set the salary of any new or existing non-elected appointee at a figure lower than the maximum salary. "'State departments have responsibility statewide on all Islands. Maui's Budget&Finance does not Include Budget. Kauai's Public Works includes Environmental (+)Salary set by Water Board • Last Updated 10/26/17 CO CO CD 'a >. a -0 a Q) 4 L a u c E -°a = r° 0 '- Inn 0 m c O v -- L u 3 ea m 3 c a c° E 'd ,o , a N ? 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