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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-03-22 Salary Commission MinutesPage 1 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS SALARY COMMISSION MEETING Held at the Hawaii County Building, 25 Aupuni Street, Hilo, Hawaii, 96720, commencing at 10:00 a.m., on March 22, 2018. REPORTED BY: TERI HOSKINS, RMR, CSR #452 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 2 1 2 CHAIRMAN: 3 HUGH Y. ONO, P. E. 4 VICE -CHAIR: 5 FLORENCE K. IKEDA 6 7 BOARD MEMBERS: 8 THOMAS E. FRATINARDO 9 GEORGE W. CAMPBELL 10 JAMES W. HIGGINS 11 MILTON PAVAO, P. E. 12 HAROLD D. DOW 13 NELSON H. HARANO 14 15 ALSO PRESENT: 16 AMY SELF, DEPUTY CORPORATION COUNSEL 17 WILLIAM V. BRILHANTE,JR., EX -OFFICIO MEMBER 18 GLYNIS YAMADA 19 JENNIFER SAKAMOTO 20 ALLAN M. YOKOYAMA 21 DEANNA SAKO 22 MICHELE LAMKIN 23 TAMMY SHIRAISHI 24 PAULA PAVAO 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 3 1 CHR. ONO: Call the meeting to order. 2 Why don't we start off with our usual roll 3 call that we have. This time we'll start with George 4 since he's newly inducted. 5 MR. CAMPBELL: George Campbell present. 6 CHR. ONO: Okay. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Jim Higgins present. 8 MR. PAVAO: Milton Pavao here, I think. 9 CHR. ONO: Hugh Ono. I'm present, too, 10 physically. 11 MS. IKEDA: Florence Ikeda present. 12 MR. DOW: Harold Dow present. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Tom Fratinardo present. 14 MR. HARANO: Nelson Harano present. 15 CHR. ONO: All present and accounted for. 16 Just let me mention a couple things. Now 17 that we're full, with the exception of one 18 representative from District -- I don't know whether 19 it's 8 or 9 or -- one of those, but this morning both 20 George and Nelson were officially sworn in for terms 21 ending, I think, in 2022. Does that sound right? 22 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 23 CHR. ONO: So, we look like we're going to 24 be whole at least through the end of this year. I 25 think Harold's term ends this December, right? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 4 1 MR. DOW: Yes, it does. 2 CHR. ONO: Okay. Then we can go for a 3 reappointment then; so it's all good. 4 So if anybody knows of any person that might 5 be interested in becoming a member from District 9, 6 please let us know. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Where is that? 8 MR. DOW: Who is the councilperson for that 9 district? 10 CHR. ONO: That's North and South Kohala, 11 I think. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah, that would be Tim 13 Richards. 14 MS. SELF: It's Waimea? 15 MR. BRILHANTE: North and South Kohala. The 16 councilperson is Tim Richards. 17 CHR. ONO: Okay. Also happy to announce 18 that we have a permanent director of Human Resources. 19 And congratulations to Bill Brilhante. 20 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 21 CHR. ONO: I was going to act up if he 22 wasn't selected. Nobody wants that. 23 But can I turn the floor over to you for 24 whatever you want to say, Bill? 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. Good morning, Chair, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 5 1 and thank you very much. 2 Again, I was selected, as Chair Ono has 3 mentioned, as the permanent HR director. At this time, 4 I would like to call -- I made a selection for our 5 deputy, and I wanted to call him forward for an 6 introduction. 7 Allan, if you could come up. 8 This is Mr. Allan Yokoyama. He comes in 9 originally from Oahu. His wife is from Hilo. He's 10 here taking care of his family commitments, and I was 11 fortunate; we brought him in maybe about six months ago 12 under an employment contract to specifically work as 13 the division head for workers' comp and health and 14 safety division. He's been with us since then. I 15 appreciate the work he does, and he brings a great deal 16 of respect and knowledge to the department, and I'm 17 glad he accepted my offer to be a deputy. So I would 18 like to introduce Allan to the commission. 19 CHR. ONO: Tell us about yourself. 20 MR. YOKOYAMA: Okay. Well -- 21 CHR. ONO: But not more than 30 seconds. 22 MR. YOKOYAMA: Yeah. That's why I'm trying 23 to think of what else to say. 24 Like Bill said, I'm originally from Honolulu. 25 I moved here temporarily. And my wife is from Hilo. I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 16 MR. PAVAO: Now we can reduce it. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: I'm going to have to 18 interrupt and make sure all this is agendized properly. 19 I don't think it is. 20 CHR. ONO: Thank you very much. 21 Welcome, Teri Hoskins, our court reporter. 22 And today I guess Nancy got bored with our 23 activities; she is not even here. Someone has to call 24 her up and ask her -- 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Oh. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 6 1 have many ties in Hilo, being a Japanese junior chamber 2 member, and our sister chapter is Hilo Jaycees of 3 Lehua, so I'm very familiar with the Hilo workings but 4 look forward to working with each one of you as well as 5 departments and make an impact here, as much as I can, 6 to the County and Human Resources to support Bill. 7 CHR. ONO: We welcome you aboard. 8 Any questions? 9 Not yet. 10 MR. YOKOYAMA: Yeah. Thank you. 11 MR. PAVAO: We set Bill's salary already? 12 MS. SELF: Yeah. 13 CHR. ONO: Well, what we can do is we set 14 it so we could attract him; so now you know what we can 15 do. 16 MR. PAVAO: Now we can reduce it. 17 MR. BRILHANTE: I'm going to have to 18 interrupt and make sure all this is agendized properly. 19 I don't think it is. 20 CHR. ONO: Thank you very much. 21 Welcome, Teri Hoskins, our court reporter. 22 And today I guess Nancy got bored with our 23 activities; she is not even here. Someone has to call 24 her up and ask her -- 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Oh. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 2 ji It 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 happened. Page 7 MS. SELF: Nancy the reporter? MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. I'm not sure what MR. HIGGINS: Now we can say whatever we want. We don't have to worry. MS. SELF: No, you can't. CHR. ONO: No, we got Amy here. She's watching. Okay. So I understand we have no statements from the public. I think the next thing to go to is just the unfinished business. I was going to take Deanna Sako out of order, but just for your information, I've been informed she is on a conference call, and as soon as she's pau, that she is going to come on over here and we can put her on the agenda right away. I believe both Tom and Nelson had questions of Deanna from Finance but, of course, when I looked at my notes, it wasn't clear to me what the hell I was doing. Okay. But when she comes... So there is no new business, and the unfinished business is several items: Review of existing compensation plan. And there are three bullets under here. It's a talking paper to begin the discussion on setting salaries in the future, which is ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 8 1 also tied in to Bill 98, which is a draft 2, which I 2 would like to ask Amy to explain a little bit better. 3 We also had Rules of the Salary Commission, which is 4 somewhat related to that. 5 And, in any case, Amy, can we kind of combine 6 these items to talk about them? Because they are 7 somewhat related to each other. 8 MS. SELF: Yes, because I think these bullets 9 are just on here for your open information. 10 But the main issue is reviewing the existing 11 compensation plan for future salaries, because you guys 12 were talking in previous meetings about setting up some 13 sort of a system where salaries would be increased 14 according to some sort of a trigger or something. So I 15 think that's the gist of it. So I think you can just 16 go ahead and talk about anything that's under 6)A). 17 CHR. ONO: Okay. 18 MR. PAVAO: Mr. Chairman? 19 CHR. ONO: Yes, Milton. 20 MR. PAVAO: I would like to propose something 21 that maybe somebody can work on some kind of wording. 22 It probably would have to be some sort of charter 23 amendment; but the amendment would state that for those 24 positions affected by the possibility of inversions, 25 that something we put in the charter is that whenever ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 9 1 collective bargaining grants raises for those employees 2 in particular departments, then the department head 3 should always be 5 percent higher automatically. It 4 will be in the charter such that whenever there is a 5 raise by collective bargaining, the department heads 6 automatically get 5 percent more than what was 7 bargained for; and that will kind of reduce the work of 8 the Salary Commission, because it will be an automatic 9 thing and it will be in the charter. But somebody 10 needs to work on some kind of wording that can be a 11 charter amendment. And, hopefully, if this Bill 98 12 Makes it through, it can coincide with that as a 13 charter amendment. 14 CHR. ONO: Bill, did you want to say 15 something? No? 16 MR. BRILHANTE: I was going to refer to 17 Corporation Counsel for the legal discussion regarding 18 this matter; but there is a provision in the HRS which 19 prohibits salaries of department heads and deputies to 20 be either directly or indirectly tied into raises of 21 civil service employees. 22 CHR. ONO: Yeah. There's a lot that has 23 come out from the statute and from the ordinance that 24 affects what we thought we might be able to do with 25 this. So this discussion we're going to have within ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 7 sort of 8 MS. SELF: Statute. Page 10 1 the next hour or two is going to unfold many, many 2 things that also relates to the proposed charter not allow -- just like Bill 3 amendment 98 -- what is it, Bill 98, Draft 2, which I'm 4 not quite sure what the difference between the original 5 and the Draft 2 is other than some language changes. 6 MR. PAVAO: So my proposal would violate some 7 sort of 8 MS. SELF: Statute. 9 MR. PAVAO: I see. 10 MS. SELF: Yeah, we just became aware there's 11 a statute that does not allow -- just like Bill 12 explained, it can't be tied to any union -- 13 MR. PAVAO: Okay, I didn't know that. 14 MR. CAMPBELL: That's why we're here. 15 MR. PAVAO: I withdraw my suggestion. 16 CHR. ONO: Okay. I probably want to 17 start with explaining this talking paper that was 18 created; but before we do, are there any questions by 19 any of the commissioners on anything pertaining to this 20 subject matter? 21 Harold? 22 MR. DOW: Do you have any comment to make 23 about your appearance before the Finance Committee to 24 the council? 25 CHR. ONO: Yes. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 11 1 did appear before the Finance Committee. Commissioner 2 Higgins was there with me also, and we gave them a 3 comprehensive explanation of what the commission has 4 done, step-by-step, the information used which was 5 furnished to us by reliable sources. And so, I'm not 6 sure how they concluded on this but, in any case, they 7 decided to adopt that Bill No. 98, and I believe it was 8 unanimous, 9-0, or whomever was there. One might have 9 been absent. 10 During the course of this discussion here -- 11 Bill, were you there? Amy was there for sure. 12 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 13 CHR. ONO: And we couldn't have a further 14 explanation on that, but I felt all we did was present 15 information to help them better understand what this 16 commission does. 17 MR. HIGGINS: I can give you my take. My 18 take on it was they asked questions that they already 19 knew the answers to, pretty much. Ms. Lee Loy had been 20 well-prepared; she did her homework. And the Chairman, 21 Mr. Ono, did a terrific job. I thought he did a 22 terrific job in answering the questions. 23 It was fascinating in that there was no 24 mention, or hardly any mention, at all of the push -back 25 from voters regarding the size of the pay raises, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 12 1 although if you -- at least the feedback I got from my 2 friends and family and reading letters to the editor, 3 the big complaint was that, you know, 20, 30 percent 4 pay raises, blah, blah, blah, that was over the top. 5 Well, none of their questions had anything to do with 6 that, so it was fascinating that the tact they took to 7 show that they were going to do something about it was 8 to attack -- and that's in -- 98 is to attack the 9 procedure that we went through. 10 So it's pretty fascinating when you think 11 about it, that instead of saying, "Yeah it was a 12 wonderful job that you guys did in three meetings. You 13 did exactly what hadn't been done in ten years. We're 14 going to make it even better by putting in more 15 regulations." Bottom line, that's what happened. So 16 thank God she is not here, but political grandstanding 17 at its best. That's the bottom line. 18 CHR. ONO: Thomas? 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes, Mr. Chair. Are we 20 going to be actually discussing 98 later on? 21 CHR. ONO: Yeah. Uh-huh. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: So I'll have more chance to 23 question and maybe introduce a motion later? 24 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 25 Here's what the Chair wants to do to set the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 13 1 stage for this entire discussion. I would like to 2 start off with the talking paper, a proposal to just 3 serve as the basis for discussion; and once I do that, 4 we can use that as the basis for developing whatever 5 we're going to do (SEE ATT. A). Believe me, there's 6 a lot of things that have come out. 7 Also on February 22nd, both Florence and I 8 met with the Department of Human Resources. We met 9 with Jennifer and Bill about, you know, the salary 10 increases. And even since then, some other concepts as 11 far as the statute have come into the picture. So I 12 think at the end of today's discussion, you're going to 13 have a lot more information. 14 But if there's no objection, I would like to 15 start with this thing right here. I think you all have 16 a copy. I just want to go through it and summarize 17 what -- this serves as the basis of this discussion, 18 what's going to happen in the future. 19 So, if you look at the page, the colored 20 sections, which identifies the position title, the 21 current salary and the salary change range, we have 22 divided them up into three areas: the elected 23 officials, which include the administration officer, 24 the managing director, and the deputy managing 25 director. Then the second group would be the officials ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 14 1 that report -- or are appointed by the mayor, the 2 commission, or the county council. So those are the 3 multitude of positions. There's 25 shown there. And 4 the last column is just the comments. So the comments 5 that are noted by the red asterisk are those positions 6 that require either special certifications or more than 7 minimum qualifications. As an example, you know, you 8 cannot have a non -attorney serving as the prosecuting 9 attorney or the corp. counsel. And also police and 10 fire chief require certain minimum qualifications, as 11 do the engineering directors, which require 12 professional engineer's license. And I may have some 13 of these incorrect. It's just kind of a good guess at 14 best. But we can always correct those. And that was 15 Florence's suggestion, to note those that require 16 certain minimum qualifications or certifications. 17 So the next row across is how these salaries 18 would be set. And, basically, I just highlighted certain 19 things, that the Salary Commission can adopt its own 20 administrative procedures. And that's within the 21 statute right now. The starting salary -- so, anyway, 22 the law requires that the salaries for all these 23 positions are set by the Salary Commission and, right 24 now, only the Salary Commission. And, of course, we 25 all know that whatever we decide becomes final. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 15 1 To address incremental adjustments, the 2 incremental adjustments will occur in accordance with 3 the same annual provisions that are used by collective 4 bargaining and excluded management. Now, that's the 5 part where there's a law that says that we cannot do 6 that. So this idea of setting automatic adjustments is 7 something that Amy will explain right after we're pau 8 here. 9 The bottom part is the procedure for setting 10 this. And also I just want to mention that this is 11 just a suggestion, so it can be subject to change. No 12 problem. But the suggestion is that before each 13 elected term, be it a four-year term for the mayor's 14 office or two-year terms for the county council, would 15 be the time when this commission would be evaluating 16 these salaries for adoption, be it increase, decrease, 17 or stay the same. 18 Furthermore, the annual adjustments, if there 19 are any annual adjustments or increment adjustments, 20 those adjustments need to be made by the Salary 21 Commission; and as Amy will explain, it has to be 22 separate from collective bargaining. Cannot be tied 23 into that. 24 Also, want to mention that -- well, 25 furthermore, proposing on the bottom there, the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 16 1 adoption of any new salaries could only be approved 2 after two readings by this body, which would give time 3 for the public to comment. And, also, there's another 4 provision we had in there to have the salaries that are 5 being proposed publicized for a certain minimum period, 6 be it 14 or 30 days. And this would also do the same 7 thing that their charter amendment is doing, hopefully. 8 What we're trying to avoid is have the charter 9 amendment passed when we have the same thing included 10 in our own internal procedures. 11 But with that said, any questions so far on 12 this? Otherwise, I would like to have Amy explain the 13 law. 14 Okay. If not, Amy. 15 MS. SELF: Okay. So you're talking about the 16 bill that was introduced by Council Member Lee Loy? 17 CHR. ONO: Anything. Doesn't matter. 18 We're discussing all this at the same time. But 19 primarily the one that precludes us from 20 automatically... 21 MS. SELF: Okay. So that's HRS 78-18.3. And 22 what it says in pertinent part is any law to the 23 contrary notwithstanding, neither the State nor any of 24 the counties shall provide or pay to the following 25 state or county officers or employees any adjustment or ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 17 1 increase in the officer's or employee's respective 2 salary or commission where such adjustment or increase 3 constitutes a mandatory adjustment or increase, which is 4 directly or indirectly dependent upon and related to 5 negotiated salary adjustments or increases received 6 under collective bargaining agreements by civil service 7 or other public employees covered by collective 8 bargaining. 9 So, that's why you can't tie it to any sort of 10 collective bargaining. 11 MR. PAVAO: Amy, based on your knowledge and 12 based on your experience, do you have any idea what was 13 the intent of that or why they did that that way? 14 MS. SELF: I have no idea. Maybe to give the 15 State and the Counties the ability to adjust salaries 16 or either increasing or decreasing, depending on the 17 economy, or -- I think it's probably just to provide 18 more flexibility because these are elected officials 19 and appointees. 20 CHR. ONO: I wanted to mention something 21 else which I forgot to mention. 22 After deliberating on this, I -- you know, we 23 came up with our own salary schedule the last time, 24 when we set the salary schedule, but I just believe 25 that the best people that know about the salaries would ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 18 1 be the Department of Human Resources. So we should 2 perhaps start each new -- when we're going to do that, 3 no matter if it has to do with the same timing as the 4 collective bargaining or with the new term, have the 5 initial recommendation come from the department; and, 6 you know, that way we could set it up in such a way 7 where it makes sense rather than us trying to create 8 our own. 9 MR. HIGGINS: Well, and wouldn't it make 10 sense to get some kind of idea of the boss or the 11 performance of those that are underneath, so -- instead 12 of starting off at the new election cycle, wouldn't it 13 be more valuable if that, a year into that, all of the 14 big cheeses said, "Well, there's great performance by 15 this individual, "This is lacking, and this 16 individual," or -- we had no input whatsoever. We kind 17 of went, "Well, this is what Honolulu does. This is 18 what Kauai does," and we wanted to catch up, and pretty 19 much gave a blanket 20 or 30 percent raise to anybody 20 and everybody even though we had no input on 21 performance. 22 CHR. ONO: Yeah, Amy? 23 MS. SELF: Keep in mind that it's not the 24 person's salary you're setting. You're setting the 25 salary for the position. And so, what had happened was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 19 1 for ten years, these positions had not had an increase. 2 So it's not the people that are in those positions, 3 it's actually the position. 4 And so, one of the things that came up when 5 the commission was discussing this was that it's 6 difficult to attract competent people to those 7 department head positions when the salaries have 8 stayed at a level for ten straight years. So you got -- 9 think of it in terms of position rather than person. 10 CHR. ONO: And I don't disagree with you 11 that we could get input from an appointing authority if 12 they wanted to reset that salary at another level. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Amy, I have a question. So 14 historically, back in 1990, in the charter, the reason 15 we -- in the 1990 amendment to the charter, it was that 16 we would use collective bargaining to give salaries to 17 the county council. So why did that change? That was 18 my question I was going to ask Deanna. But maybe now 19 we're going to focus through the Human Resources side, 20 is there some way to find out what was the statutory 21 change that made that process change for the salaries 22 from the county council? 23 MS. SELF: Well, it's the statute that I just 24 read, but I'm not sure when that law was passed. 25 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, the impetus for the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 20 1 creation of the Salary Commission goes back to the 2 '90s, then we had specific amendments in the early 3 2000s. And I had an opportunity to just do my own 4 historical, you know, investigation, looking back, and 5 I talked to several of the council members. 6 We were fortunate that one of the 7 Council members actually was serving on the council back 8 then, Aaron Chung. So I had a chance to talk to him, 9 and, you know, he was pretty much involved with those 10 amendments at the time. And, you know, he recalled 11 that one of the driving factors for the creation of the 12 Salary Commission was the fact that the pay of the 13 department heads and deputies became so politicized, 14 what was happening was the mayor at the time, whoever 15 it was, whether it be Yamashiro, Bernard Akana, 16 Dr. Carpenter, or, you know Matayoshi, going all the 17 way back, in order for them to increase raises or 18 increase salaries of their department heads, they had 19 to submit a formal proposal to the county council. And 20 it became a political hot potato. If the county 21 council was a favorable county council to the 22 administration, raises went forward. If the county 23 council maybe was somewhat adverse or they had, you 24 know, some issues back and forth with the mayor, then 25 the raises got denied. So, the mayor at the time or they ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 21 1 administration at the time didn't want the prospect of 2 their department heads and deputies' salaries being 3 held hostage by the county council. 4 So that's the impetus or the driving factor 5 for the creation of the Salary Commission was, to 6 remove the politicizing of pay raises for department 7 heads and deputies, they decided to create this 8 independent commission who acts independently, they 9 really don't answer to anybody, and they do an 10 annual -- or they do regular reviews. If you look at 11 the charter, the commission is supposed to be 12 conducting an annual review, you know, by the language 13 in the charter, of the department heads, deputies, and, 14 you know, appointed administration as well as the 15 elected officials. 16 So that's how we got from there to here, you 17 know, and that's why we're here now. What happened in 18 the past ten years is really an unfortunate 19 circumstance. And the simple fact was the commission 20 wasn't meeting annually; it wasn't abiding by the 21 language of the charter job and, therefore, you know, a 22 spattering of department heads weren't able to have a 23 raise since 2007. 24 And, unfortunately, the creation of the 25 commission or the appointments of commissioners -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 22 1 because what the administration at the time did was, as 2 commissioners' terms expired, they just never 3 reappointed anybody, so the commission never had 4 quorum, never had enough members on it to formulate a 5 quorum. Therefore, they couldn't meet. Therefore, 6 they couldn't ever, you know, adjust -- or address the 7 issue of raises. 8 Two things happened back in -- I think it was 9 2012 and 2014. One was the retirement of Jay Kimura 10 and the fact that the deputy corporation counsel and 11 prosecutors' salaries are specifically tied in to the 12 higher salary of either the prosecutor or the corp. 13 counsel. And when Jay retired, the next -- you know, 14 the new prosecutor coming in would have started at a 15 much lower, you know, salary because of the tiered 16 system; so, therefore, a majority of the deputy 17 prosecutors and deputy corporation counsel attorneys 18 would have had to have taken up to a 15 or 20 percent 19 reduction in their salary. So I know that was a 20 driving factor for the mayor to appoint a quorum. At 21 that time, they just appointed five members and they 22 addressed that issue. 23 And then, the second time the commission met, 24 you know, during that span, I think, was in 2014, and 25 the issue that arose at that time was the appointment ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 23 1 of the new fire chief, the selection of the new fire 2 chief. Chief Oliveira retired and Chief Rosario was 3 appointed. And he was the assistant fire chief at the 4 time of his appointment, and he would have had to have 5 taken a $16,000 cut in pay due to the -- you know, the 6 current salary structure at that time in order for him 7 to accept the fire chief position. So, again, at that 8 time, they addressed the salaries of the fire chief and 9 the police chief. 10 But from 2014 until now, you know, there 11 hadn't been quorum and so, therefore, the remaining 12 salaries and the salaries that were set were pretty 13 much stagnant at that time; but as you know, the EMs or 14 the EMCP, you know, so your excluded managers, their 15 salaries are tied into the collective bargaining. As 16 the collective bargaining unions were getting annual 17 increases, the EMs were getting annual increases. So 18 even though, at the time the commission met in 2014, 19 the salaries were like this, over those next couple 20 years, the EMs continued to get raises. That's how we 21 ended up where we are today. Kind of unique. But I 22 think going forward, the problem could have been easily 23 avoided if, pursuant to the language of the charter, 24 the Salary Commission continued to meet on an annual 25 basis. And I think that's the root of the problem ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 24 1 going back. 2 You know, just my own two cents. 3 CHR. ONO: Yeah, I see that, as a 4 necessity, this commission will have to meet regularly 5 if we're going to do the job. 6 I would like to get a feel right now. Is 7 everybody comfortable over here with the recommendation 8 for the new salaries coming from the Department of 9 Human Resources rather than us trying to create our 10 own? I mean, that would be the recommendation. We 11 don't have to adopt it, but at least it gives us a 12 starting point. 13 MR. PAVAO: I think it would be a good 14 guideline -- definitely a good guideline for us to 15 consider, and we still maintain the authority to adjust 16 it either way. 17 CHR. ONO: Gentlemen? 18 MR. PAVAO: But I think it's a good starting 19 point. 20 MR. HARANO: Chairman Ono, I have a comment 21 on that. 22 CHR. ONO: Yes, Nelson. 23 MR. HARANO: By doing so, you know, the 24 proposed -- do we not run in conflict with the charter 25 saying to keep the salary separate from the Human ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 25 1 Resources aspect? Do we not run -- 2 CHR. ONO: I think that's a legal 3 question. I don't know. 4 MS. SELF: You're asking if it is in conflict 5 with the statute that I read -- 6 MR. HARANO: Yeah. 7 MS. SELF: -- or the charter? 8 MR. HARANO: Yeah. You know, by taking the 9 direction or suggested number, whatever that number may 10 be from the Human Resources, would that not run 11 conflict to the Salary Commission? 12 MS. SELF: Oh, you mean the Salary 13 Commission's responsibility? 14 MR. HARANO: Right. 15 MS. SELF: No, because I think it would be a 16 recommendation from the HR, from the Human Resources 17 Department. You guys would have the final say. I 18 mean, you don't even have to accept that 19 recommendation; you can put in your own numbers, but I 20 think Chair Ono is just talking about getting a 21 recommendation from the Human Resources. For instance, 22 Human Resources would be able to supply information 23 like maybe cost of living increases -- that kind of 24 stuff that could play into that. 25 Is that correct, Bill? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 26 1 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, during this 2 discussion, again, I always go back to what is the 3 specific language of the charter. That's always the 4 best starting point. It keeps everybody, you know, 5 going in the most appropriate direction. And with 6 that, if you look at the language of the charter, the 7 task of this commission when it comes to setting 8 salaries is to request input from the appointing 9 authorities as well as the commissions; and from our 10 standpoint, a HR standpoint, you know, we also have to 11 look at -- the language says to take into consideration 12 the salaries of both the private and public sector. 13 And some of you weren't here during the first 14 meeting, but if you recall, the ones that were here, 15 during that first meeting, we had Jenny Sakamoto come 16 up, our Classifications and Pay Specialist, division 17 head, and she came up and she gave you a bunch of 18 documents that specifically related to a report 19 generated where the basis of that report was -- it 20 identified significant salaries of individuals in the 21 private sector that she kind of equated to being 22 similar positions to that of the public sector, because 23 we know there's a significant difference between two. 24 And the salaries were reflective of that. The private 25 sector had significantly higher salary. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 27 1 But then we also went and we obtained 2 salaries from the other jurisdiction, Maui, Kauai, and 3 City and County, and we brought all that information 4 in. 5 MR. HIGGINS: Yep. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: So I would think a 7 recommendation from the Department of HR as to 8 salaries, I can almost assure you it will be based on 9 that same type of information; but it would be 10 incumbent on you as a body to take that information 11 collectively and mull it over and come up with your own 12 independent base recommendation that you feel is fair 13 and proper and just and then move forward with that. 14 So, I mean, HR could provide you the 15 information but, again, it would just be another 16 piece, you know, going forward to make sure that you 17 come up with a fully informed decision as to the 18 salaries. 19 CHR. ONO: For myself, I just think it's 20 a good place to start the discussion because the 21 Department of Human Resources understands the current 22 salaries, they understand the collective bargaining 23 agreements in place and, Bill, you folks also know 24 when the effective dates of these increases, like Fire, 25 is coming up. I think there's one increase in July; ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 28 1 and the following year there's also another increase in 2 July. I'm not sure, but you folks know that 3 information precisely, don't you, Jennifer? No? 4 Anyway, I was glad to hear you endorse that. 5 That's a good starting point. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: I think that will be a great 7 jumping-off point. 8 CHR. ONO: Is there anybody that 9 disagrees with that? consideration; 10 MS. IKEDA: No. I'd like to say, 11 having worked in personnel, it's strictly a 12 recommendation, and you folks know all the factors 13 involved, that it would be a great starting point for 14 us because all we can go by is by hearsay or what we 15 feel; but you actually have a basis that you came up 16 with these figures. And we can, as you said, approve 17 or disapprove, or we can change and do anything. But 18 it's a great jumping-off point. That's what I think. 19 MR. BRILHANTE: And, you know, just to add to 20 that, Ms. Ikeda, is that we will give consideration -- 21 strong consideration -- to what the collective 22 bargaining/the EMCPs are being granted in comparison to 23 department heads and deputies. The language of the 24 charter doesn't say we cannot take that into 25 consideration; it just says that can't be our sole ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 29 1 determining factor and it can't be an automatic tie-in. 2 So, of course, it can be part of the consideration of 3 Just, again, another component or another piece of your 4 final determination. 5 MR. HIGGINS: I'm feeling very comfortable 6 about what you just said because that collective 7 bargaining, whether we want to admit it or not, that's 8 the push. The push is coming from underneath. And, 9 again, it goes along with that inversion problem. 10 That's what, basically, created it. 11 And in the testimony of the mayor, if you 12 recall, was -- a meeting or two meetings -- he 13 basically said the bottom-line problem is collective 14 bargaining, when he was talking about the budget and 15 what we had just done. So, if we have an understanding 16 of a comfortable way to address the collective 17 bargaining input in all of this, we'll be better 18 served. 19 MR. DOW: Can you tell me how active, 20 annually or semi-annually or whatever, raises occur for 21 EMs? 22 MR. BRILHANTE: Pursuant to the HRS, the 23 excluded managers are to receive equal to their 24 collective bargaining counterparts. So depending on the 25 union, say for UPW -- primarily HGEA, SHOPO, and Fire, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 30 1 they receive under the current contract, I believe -- 2 and correct me if I'm wrong -- they're receiving 3 raises approximately every six months, 2 percent, 2 4 percent, Jenny? Just approximate estimation. 5 MS. SAKAMOTO: For EMCP or for -- 6 MR. BRILHANTE: The collective bargaining. 7 The HGEA, SHOPO, and HFFA. 8 You know, the problem is HGEA -- I mean, UPW 9 and SHOPO entered into a four-year agreement, so the 10 raises are kind of spread out over a little longer 11 period of time, whereas HGEA and Fire are under a 12 two-year Collective Bargaining Agreement, yeah. 13 MR. DOW: It appears to me, if we're going to 14 keep salaries of our department heads ahead of the EMs, 15 we're going to have to be as active as the EM system 16 is. 17 CHR. ONO: Yeah. No question. 18 Otherwise, you got the same thing with the lagging 19 behind. 20 MR. BRILHANTE: Do you want to -- again, 21 Jenny Sakamoto. She's the classification and pay 22 division head. 23 MS. SAKAMOTO: I'm sorry. Off the top of my 24 head, I can't recall what every bargaining unit is 25 going to get, but even within like across-the-board ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 31 1 raises, some of the collective bargaining agreements, 2 they will also get step movements. So it's all tied 3 within whatever that collective bargaining agreement 4 will allow for through that course of negotiations. 5 So I don't know if you want to comment on 6 EMCP, but it's tied to the collective bargaining 7 agreement of their counterpart; but even within there, 8 they can also get more than whatever their counterparts 9 are getting. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: And that's the unique aspect 11 of the EMCP is that they get equal to or no less than. 12 So, in some jurisdictions, the EMCPs are -- as it 13 relates to certain items -- let's just take a real 14 generic item. Say like SHOPO, the police officer, you 15 know, they get a thousand -dollar -a -month gun allowance. 16 Those increase -- I mean, a year gun allowance to take 17 care of their weapons. And that was increased from 500 18 a year previously. And something like that, it's hard 19 to quantify or it's hard to, you know, extrapolate out 20 as it relates to -- maybe the police chief or the 21 deputy, I'm not sure if they're even required to carry 22 a gun. I would assume they would be, but there's no 23 guarantees. 24 So, in that regard, you know, if you look at 25 the EMCP, what we did was we provided a mechanism where ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 32 1 it wasn't specifically tied in to the gun allowance, 2 but we made sure they qualified for that thousand 3 dollars as well because, you know, for us to go 4 through the whole process and say, "Oh, this guy is 5 required to carry a gun, this manager is not, this 6 manager is," it is just too arduous a process. So what 7 we did was we just gave it to everybody, all the EMs 8 across-the-board. Again, the restriction is "no less 9 than," so as long as they're equal to or above, then 10 we're comfortable. And I think that's what Jenny was 11 alluding to. 12 MR. PAVAO: Bill, what does "EMCP" mean? 13 MR. BRILHANTE: It's the Excluded Management 14 Compensation Plan. 15 MR. PAVAO: Oh, compensation plan. 16 MR. BRILHANTE: Because when you do a 17 collective bargaining, they come out -- in part of the 18 CBA, the agreement, is that they set a salary schedule, 19 and that's a salary schedule specific to the civil 20 service employees, right, the collective bargaining 21 employees. We don't have a salary schedule for the 22 EMs, so under the statute, the County is required to 23 set a salary schedule for the EMs, and that's what -- 24 salary and compensation -- compensation and benefit 25 schedule for the EMs. So that's what we refer to as ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 33 1 the EMCP. 2 MR. FRATINARDO: And, for example, for 3 police, it starts at captain and above? 4 MR. BRILHANTE: It depends if the captain is 5 considered to be a manager's level. I think when I did 6 the list, there were several captains on that list. 7 When I did the list of the EMs, they were. I believe 8 there are 27 officers within the police department that 9 qualified for EMs. 10 CHR. ONO: Jennifer, before you go, as 11 best as you know, for the commission's information, 12 what is your best understanding of when these increases 13 occur for the certain units? Just the ones that you 14 know for sure. I don't care about the percentage, but 15 when are they occurring? 16 MS. SAKAMOTO: You know, I'm sorry, I'm not 17 the person that's involved in collective bargaining for 18 our office, so I don't always know like all of those 19 salary increases and their schedules. 20 Do you know off the top of your head? 21 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: There's some already 23 scheduled. 24 MR. BRILHANTE: So, like I said earlier, was 25 that two of the bargaining units, UPW and SHOPO, enter ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 34 1 into four-year agreements, whereas HGEA and HFFA or 2 Fire are two-year agreements. The benchmarks, usually, 3 for raises we see is either July lst, which is the 4 start of the fiscal year, or January lst. So there are 5 some of the bargaining units that are affording raises 6 both July and then the subsequent January, you know, 7 for their members. 8 Longevity raises or, you know, years of 9 service type raises associated to the collective 10 bargaining, we tie that into our EMCP and we tie it 11 into their date of hire. So when a EM becomes -- is a 12 newly appointed EM or newly hired EM, that's considered 13 their EM date of hire, and we give them their seniority 14 or longevity increase or bonus on their date of hire, 15 and we also -- again, with the gun allowance for HPD, 16 it's kind of like a bonus; we tie that into the start 17 of the fiscal year. 18 The danger of doing January bonuses is that, 19 oftentimes, depending on the part of the year you're 20 having that discussion or the contract is ratified, you 21 don't know if it's part of the old budget and now they 22 have to look for money. At least if you make it July 23 lst, it can be incorporated into a newly submitted 24 budget based on fiscal year. 25 So you know, those are some of the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 8 didn't anticipate. 9 MS. SAKAMOTO: I guess we could always give 10 you folks a summary of the upcoming scheduled raises 11 that we're aware of that have already been approved 12 through collective bargaining so that, you know, like 13 come July lst, all of these bargaining units are going 14 to get raises, and what those percentages will be, so 15 that you can plan for it. So we can give you a summary 16 table if that's what you want. 17 CHR. ONO: Well, we would have to 18 anticipate that because, if the recommendation comes 19 from your department, it would come to us in advance, 20 so we can act on it at an appropriate time for 21 effective dates. 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yeah. Because I think they're 23 starting -- are they starting negotiations for the next 24 round? I think BU14 is still finishing up. 25 MR. BRILHANTE: The award for BU14 just came ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 35 1 considerations you can make. And I think, you know, 2 both the mayor and Deanna alluded to that when they 3 gave previous presentations, that it's so much easier 4 to deal with proposed raises when you do it on the 5 fiscal year timetable, July lst, because then proposed 6 budgets and new budget submittals can be reflective of 7 that and it's not trying to cover something that you 8 didn't anticipate. 9 MS. SAKAMOTO: I guess we could always give 10 you folks a summary of the upcoming scheduled raises 11 that we're aware of that have already been approved 12 through collective bargaining so that, you know, like 13 come July lst, all of these bargaining units are going 14 to get raises, and what those percentages will be, so 15 that you can plan for it. So we can give you a summary 16 table if that's what you want. 17 CHR. ONO: Well, we would have to 18 anticipate that because, if the recommendation comes 19 from your department, it would come to us in advance, 20 so we can act on it at an appropriate time for 21 effective dates. 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: Yeah. Because I think they're 23 starting -- are they starting negotiations for the next 24 round? I think BU14 is still finishing up. 25 MR. BRILHANTE: The award for BU14 just came ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 36 1 out yesterday, so we'll be circulating that. We have 2 already started negotiations for Fire because their 3 CBA runs from July 2017 through July 2019. And so, we 4 started negotiations for Fire about three weeks ago, 5 and HGEA again, who has another two-year contract, so 6 '17 to '19, we're set for negotiations in June, 7 beginning part of June for HGEA, all of the various 8 units. But those discussions wouldn't be part of a CBA 9 until July lst of 2019. 10 CHR. ONO: Anyway, with -- in my mind, if 11 we get a recommendation on a timely basis from the 12 Department of Human Resources, that will initiate this 13 Salary Commission -- we will have to work closely 14 together with the department so that we enact something 15 at the appropriate time, be it at the beginning of the 16 fiscal year or in January. Preferably -- I can see we 17 should try avoiding doing something in the middle of 18 any operating fiscal year. So, the beginning of a 19 fiscal year always starts -- County is on an annual 20 budget, right? Yeah, it is. 21 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. 22 MS. SAKAMOTO: The budget starts July lst, so 23 usually it's submitted by March from the 24 administration. So, council reviews it and it's 25 usually approved before, so... ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 37 1 MR. FRATINARDO: So necessarily, like -- it's 2 been overlooked for the past ten years, so there will 3 be a trigger mechanism that's built into the system 4 with Human Resources to advise us when it has to happen 5 so it's not overlooked again like previously? 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, from a practical 7 standpoint, I would say my recommendation would be that 8 if we said, okay, this commission should meet at least 9 every January, you know, either December or January, to 10 address potential raises, and if the commission is so 11 inclined to approve raises, then the mindset should be 12 that these raises would become effective July lst of 13 that year. So it would give -- January, February, 14 March -- enough time for the departments and the 15 administration to make whatever assessments they need 16 as to availability of funds and then it gives 17 everybody enough time to go forward. And by 18 "everybody," I mean -- you know our fiscal, our 19 payroll, everybody is so dependent on the raises. It's 20 not just, "Okay, you're going to get a raise" and 21 tomorrow it shows up in somebody's check. There's a 22 process. And that process -- you know, we kind of 23 allowed the beginning of the year to be that trigger, 24 just annual meeting, January to sit down. One thing 25 we'll know is, for the most part, we'll kind of have a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 38 1 pretty good idea of what the prospective collective 2 bargaining groups will have as far as raises coming up. 3 And, again, it will give sufficient time to make the 4 proper adjustments by the department and the 5 administration. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Watching the Finance 7 Committee hearing, Ms. Lee Loy, during her questioning 8 of the Chair, she inferred that it's just the duty of 9 the -- or why isn't it just the duty of the Hawaii 10 County Council to give the raises? And it was just 11 kind of appearing to me that she wanted that control 12 back. And I understand what you were saying earlier 13 about the explanation you gave regarding the 14 politicization, and I just don't understand that she 15 doesn't understand that concept of that, that it's to 16 take it out of that political court and put it into 17 more of an intellectual method of giving these raises. 18 MR. BRILHANTE: And, quite honestly, in 19 addition to that, my concern, which I raised, was not 20 only were they circumventing the original intent of the 21 creation of the Salary Commission by taking it back to 22 the council, but if you look at the salaries, part of 23 the consideration for the Salary Commission is to set 24 the salaries for the county council and the chair; so 25 almost, in essence, they would be setting their own ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 39 1 salaries under that proposal. 2 MR. FRATINARDO: Exactly. 3 MR. HIGGINS: Mr. Chairman, another topic 4 that I think we should address that's very important, 5 and we've sort of dismissed from day one -- although in 6 our first meeting, we briefly talked about the word 7 "affordability," and that's never come up in any 8 deliberations. And I think we would be really wise to 9 have it documented somewhere in here that the Salary 10 Commission, in going through its deliberations, does in 11 some degree pay attention to where we can afford all of 12 this. It seems to be that it's an automatic. 13 So now we're going to get updates on when the 14 collective bargaining, but there may be times where we 15 can't afford it and that the budget people or the mayor 16 comes in and says, "Hey, the economy is going like 17 this. I mean, there's got to be something that we 18 just have in our writing or in our paperwork that we go 19 on notice and letting the world know, including 20 Ms. Lee Loy, that we are paying attention to where we 21 can afford it. I mean, we're all taxpayers, and the 22 money just doesn't come from the trees. So I think it 23 would be very wise to just mention that somehow, even 24 though we may not be paying that much attention to it. 25 It looks like we're not, but we may have to in the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 40 1 future. So, anyway, it's a small thing, but it's a big 2 thing. 3 CHR. ONO: Well, before Amy says 4 something, I see no problem in adding that to our 5 evaluation criteria. Okay. 6 MS. SELF: Just keep in mind that was brought 7 up during a couple of your meetings, and it's all in 8 the minutes, and we have a reporter, and it is all 9 documented. 10 MR. FRATINARDO: Yeah. I want to say we did 11 our due diligence on asking those questions, and they 12 were answered to us, which brought us to this 13 conclusion last December. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Well, that's not my point. I 15 recognize that we did talk about it but very briefly. 16 But we have to have it in our covering in the future 17 somehow, figure it out. 18 MR. FRATINARDO: Got you. 19 MR. HIGGINS: But, otherwise, our 20 constituents, which is our family and friends and all 21 our buddies and our golfing buddies and stuff, they 22 bring that up, "Hey, where's the money coming from? 23 Can we afford it?" That's all I'm saying is we should 24 at least have that in there. 25 CHR. ONO: Florence? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 41 1 MS. IKEDA: Bill, I wanted to know, 2 like on these raises, where is it tied in? Because, 3 you know, we keep giving these raises. Okay? Say, for 4 instance, you're the head of a department and you 5 worked 20 years, so we raised your salary and you are 6 like maybe at $500,000, just as an example; but then 7 somebody comes in with zero experience, but because the 8 salary was set at 500,000, are we still going to give 9 him the 500,000 when he has zero experience and you had 10 20 years of experience? Is there any equity? Do we 11 readjust? Is it up to the salary committee to readjust 12 or what have you? 13 MR. BRILHANTE: I would be very happy if you 14 set my salary at 500,000. I'm not sure anybody else 15 would be, but -- anyway, you know, that's a very good 16 point. And experience and years of service are primary 17 components of an employee's salary. We see it in the 18 collective bargaining where we do the step increases 19 and the like. And that's the purview of the 20 commission. If you feel that a salary is deemed to be 21 somewhat significantly higher which was based on a 22 previous employee -- let's go back to the Jay Kimura 23 example. Jay Kimura's salary, because of his number of 24 years as the county prosecutor, you know, back in the 25 tiered system, his salary I would almost estimate was ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 42 1 near the top of the scale. And when he decided to 2 retire, a new prosecutor came in, you know, Mitch Roth, 3 and he had significantly less number of years of 4 experience. I'm not making a determination as to the 5 capabilities of him being able to do the job; I'm just 6 using it as an example. And under that old system, 7 Mitch's salary was automatically reduced to the initial 8 starting point. 9 Again, the danger with that -- and, you know, 10 I always give a cautionary note when it comes to 11 this -- is that with the tiered system, historically, 12 you know, from the transition of the first Kim 13 Administration to the Kenoi Administration, that was 14 somewhat a unique situation in that a number of the 15 department heads or the administrative personnel that 16 were in the first Kim administration were retained by 17 the Kenoi administration, so you had that continuancy, 18 you know. And a good example was Lincoln Ashida. So 19 he had 12, 13 years of service because he served under 20 Mayor Kim, and then he was retained by Mayor Kenoi at 21 least through the first and part of the second term. 22 Historically, though, you don't see that. 23 Historically, you see a turnaround of department heads. 24 You know, if a mayor serves for two years, his 25 department heads are in there through term limits, for ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 43 1 eight years -- I mean two terms. His heads and 2 deputies are in there for eight years. At the end of 3 eight years, boom, there's a new crop. Very similar to 4 what happened this past -- you know, this transition 5 from the Kenoi administration to Harry Kim's second 6 administration here, second stint at mayor. 7 So that's what you are going to have. You're 8 going to have the eight-year historical turnaround. So 9 a lot of your longevity or a lot of your years of 10 service are going to be capped at eight years, for the 11 most part, outside some unique circumstances, which I 12 alluded to earlier. That's something the commission 13 definitely should consider when you set the salary. If 14 you are planning to do that on an annual basis, again, 15 the administration, the transition is in November, and 16 that's something that -- I'm not sure how you want to 17 address that. I mean -- I'm sorry -- it's the first 18 week of December, usually around December 5th. So 19 that's something that you can consider moving forward. 20 But that's definitely something that -- a good point 21 that you raised. 22 MR. PAVAO: I have a comment. This 23 discussion about paying according to experience, one 24 guy was in there, he gets -- somebody else comes in 25 with less experience. That kind of conflicts with what ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 44 1 Amy was cautioning us earlier where compensation is for 2 the position, not for the persons. If somebody is 3 appointed -- and we're not talking about appointed 4 positions, right? We're not talking about rank and 5 file, just appointed -- if the mayor, whoever he may 6 be, appoints somebody that, in his mind, that person 7 has the experience. And, as Amy said, that position 8 should be paid for the position, not for the person. 9 So it's like we're talking from two sides of our mouth. 10 We need to be careful on this. 11 MS. SELF: Can I address this? 12 CHR. ONO: Yeah, please. 13 MS. SELF: Yeah, because if you look at the 14 Charter, section 13-28, which is what your job is to 15 do, it says that you are supposed to review the 16 salaries of the elected officials and board of 17 directors and deputy director so that their total 18 salaries and benefits have a reasonable relationship to 19 compensation in the public and private sectors. So 20 that's what you are going to be looking at is to make 21 sure that position has a reasonable relationship to 22 what that position is paid in the private sector and -- 23 like other counties -- for that position. And that's 24 what you guys were doing this time around; you were 25 comparing it to other counties. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 45 1 MR. BRILHANTE: And just in addition to that, 2 there's no bright line test. When you're determining 3 the salaries of the department heads and deputies, like 4 I said, all of these are just pieces of a puzzle that 5 you guys all have to bring in, and there's all these 6 various components, and it's up to you to make -- it's 7 up to the commission, the body of the commission as a 8 whole, to determine what piece we're going to give more 9 attention to or what piece we feel is more important. 10 And that's part of your deliberative process moving 11 forward. 12 So, you know, again, there's no bright line 13 test. It's not like we can't use this, or we can't use 14 that, or we can use this -- and vice versa. And I think 15 it's a process, and I think as long as UPW and SHOPO 16 guys go through the process -- Amy was correct in that 17 the record reflects the process; and, at the end of the 18 day, that's what you have to justify, your decision is 19 the steps you took, which was codified in the minutes. 20 CHR. ONO: I'm going to call a rest 21 break, but before I do, I would like to ask for a 22 motion that we ask the Department of Human Resources to 23 submit a recommendation in preparation for July lst for 24 us to deliberate. 25 MR. PAVAO: Second the motion. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 46 1 CHR. ONO: I didn't make the motion. I 2 just -- I'm asking for a motion. 3 MR. PAVAO: I make the motion. 4 CHR. ONO: Milton has made the motion. 5 MS. IKEDA: I'll second. 6 CHR. ONO: Florence second. 7 Any discussion on that? 8 Not hearing, all those in favor -- George? 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, discussion -wise, by what 10 HR presents, if we're talking about what we heard 11 earlier, like what you presented to us last year, of 12 all the comparison with the other counties, comparison 13 with the outside world, and whatever you want to bring 14 in from the negotiation world, I mean, so it isn't 15 just -- so it's clear that we're asking for all the 16 things that are required already in our rules and 17 regulations. 18 CHR. ONO: And also, George, they may 19 recommend not -- you know, based on what's currently 20 being paid, they may recommend nothing. 21 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 22 CHR. ONO: So that's part of the 23 recommendation. But I think it's the best source for 24 us to start the discussion because you guys really 25 know best. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 47 1 MR. BRILHANTE: At the minimum, what we -- 2 and, again, historically, our office has provided -- 3 and we'll just make it official through this motion -- 4 is we'll have salaries of comparable positions within 5 the other jurisdictions within the State. To the best 6 of our ability, we'll pull up the salaries of the 7 private sector, which we did the last time. We'll 8 incorporate that type of information. And the third 9 thing we'll do is we'll incorporate collectively 10 bargaining salary increases or whatever their benefits 11 packages are. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: And will this negate us 13 having to ask the finance director and those people to 14 come and testify before us, or is that information you 15 will already have obtained from them and you will 16 already be advising us on all of that? 17 MR. BRILHANTE: It will just be the empirical 18 information that we have. This is the current snapshot 19 of what is taking place at this point in time. If you 20 want to call up the finance director to question her as 21 to availability of funds or the like, there's no 22 restriction or prohibition about that. It's just going 23 to be a picture of what is on the table at that point 24 in time. 25 CHR. ONO: George? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 48 1 MR. CAMPBELL: In the motion, it's -- you 2 mentioned July. Earlier I heard a recommendation that 3 we start this process in January, which would be the 4 appropriate time so that it fits with the budget 5 process and all of that, which would be effective in 6 July. 7 CHR. ONO: The reason I mentioned July, 8 there's a pay increase coming in July -- 9 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 10 CHR. ONO: -- and we should look at it. 11 Not that we're going to enact it. 12 MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. So to look at it, but 13 if we're going to follow the fiscal process of the 14 County, we're starting in January every year, so it's 15 built in to the budget process so that we are having to 16 see from the finance director if there are some funds 17 somewhere. In other words -- 18 CHR. ONO: No, I -- 19 MR. CAMPBELL: -- I'm saying anything we do, 20 it should be in a timely fashion such that it can be 21 built into the County budget process. 22 CHR. ONO: I agree, but I think we need 23 to go through a process by which, if we're going to do 24 that, we intentionally table it at that time until 25 January; but at least we're looking at the numbers. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 49 1 MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. 2 CHR. ONO: Any other questions? If not, 3 call for the question. All those in favor say "Aye." 4 (All members responded affirmatively.) 5 CHR. ONO: Those against? 6 (No members responded negatively.) 7 CHR. ONO: Motion carried. 8 Take a break? 9 (Recess ensued from 11:05 a.m. to 11:15 a.m.) 10 CHR. ONO: Salary Commission meeting is 11 called back to order, and at this time, Deanna Sako, 12 Finance Director, would you like to come and grace us 13 with your presence? 14 MS. SAKO: Sure. 15 CHR. ONO: This is tied into all three of 16 our agenda items, primarily on the first agenda item, 17 which has to do with the proposal that we're looking at 18 to conduct our future deliberations. 19 So I think there were -- my recollection, 20 there was at least one or two commissioners that had 21 some inquiries for you, Deanna. So why don't we start 22 with Nelson, because I know Nelson had something for 23 you, right, Nelson? 24 MR. HARANO: If I can remember, yes. 25 You know, speaking with the public that I've ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 50 1 come in contact in District 7, you know, everyone is, 2 of course, like eye-popping, like "What? 20, 30, 3 percent raise, and all of a sudden?" And, you know, we 4 have to tell them a story or what they don't know. And 5 in the process of budgets and governmental accounting, 6 as far as these annual salary increases, in the event 7 that they're not paid out, you know, if it's not spent, 8 it goes back into the general budget for the following 9 year, but do we make some kind of allowance for this 10 increase to be paid out or be held back in reserve for 11 future payment of these salaries? I don't know if 12 there is that hold -back or not, so... 13 MS. SAKO: Deanna Sako, Director of Finance. 14 Basically, each year is a little bit 15 different, but in a year, such as fiscal year '18, when 16 we were preparing the budget and all of our eight 17 bargaining units were still under negotiations, we 18 didn't know what the exact salaries were going to be, 19 including like BU14, where we're still in arbitration 20 with them. So we prepare an estimate and we set it 21 aside in a special account to be utilized during the 22 year once we have the agreements. And, in this 23 particular year, we started to take all bargaining 24 units and all employees, because like our excluded 25 managerial would normally get the same raises that ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 51 1 their counterparts would get. So we would -- that money 2 set aside. 3 Coming up now, in fiscal year '19, where most 4 of our bargaining units actually know the raises, they 5 are actually calculating it person -by -person in each 6 department. So when we know that there's like unknowns 7 coming up or, you know, depending on how you guys 8 decide to do the, you know, directors and the elected 9 officials, then we'll try to take that all into account 10 when we're preparing the budget. When we don't know, 11 then we try to look from within. 12 But, at the end of the year, let's say we have 13 overestimated; we have extra money left in that account 14 where we put for the raises. That would just lapse 15 back into the General Fund fund balance, and that would 16 help us balance next year's budget. So it doesn't 17 necessarily get carried forward; it loses its 18 designation that it's purely for salaries and wages, 19 but it definitely helps for the next year's budget, 20 especially if there's some positions that may be 21 vacant, right? Then we wouldn't spend the money 22 anyway. 23 MR. HARANO: But that vacant positions aren't 24 included in the annual budget, though, right? 25 MS. SAKO: They are, yes. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 52 1 MS. SAKO: We get 19 MR. HARANO: Thank you. 2 above -- what the State CHR. ONO: Anybody? 3 15 MR. FRATINARDO: I had a question earlier 4 about the collective bargaining, but that's answered 5 for me. 18 other house, yeah. 6 19 CHR. ONO: In other words, you used up 7 your time. determination as far as 21 8 22 MR. FRATINARDO: But quickly, let's say the 9 County of Hawaii, we get back that transient 10 accommodation 25 tax money, which is, what, about 19 11 million? 12 MS. SAKO: We get 19 million right now, yes. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: And above -- what the State 14 is talking about giving us, how much more on top of 15 that? 16 MS. SAKO: Right now it says 12 million, but 17 that's only from one house. It has to go through the 18 other house, yeah. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: How much of that is 20 allotted -- will you make that determination as far as 21 what gets allotted to capital improvements and 22 operating budget? 23 MS. SAKO: Right. We would have to sit down 24 and determine, because there's conditions in that bill 25 as to what it can be related to; so we would have to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 53 1 evaluate to make sure what we want to spend it on would 2 meet that criteria. 3 MR. FRATINARDO: Thank you. 4 MR. BRILHANTE: And, again, that's just a 5 proposal on the floor. We haven't been granted the 12 6 million. I wish we were. 7 MS. SAKO: Yes. We're hopeful, but nothing 8 is guaranteed when you deal with the State. No 9 offense, but... 10 CHR. ONO: Absolutely not. 11 Any other questions? 12 If not, Deanna, thank you so very much for 13 making yourself available. 14 MS. SAKO: Oh, no problem. If you have any 15 questions, call me anytime. 16 CHR. ONO: You want us to call you back? 17 MS. SAKO: No, I'm just saying I'm available 18 to help. 19 CHR.ONO: Thank you, again. Have a great 20 day. 21 Okay. Going back on -- well, we're still on 22 the agenda items. There's a couple things here that 23 the Chair would like to suggest we get done with the 24 first part of what we were talking about, and this 25 would allow us to develop the draft procedure on what ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 54 1 this commission goes through in adopting (SEE ATT. B & c) . 2 So the two things I'd like to look at -- discuss 3 the number of readings that this commission should 4 be required to have before a new salary is adopted. 5 So, in my discussion paper, I had two. And also 6 the duration of time; how long should we be required to 7 publish? So that's related to both how many readings, 8 because if you do two readings, you have time between 9 to publish for sure the meetings. 10 So any discussion? 11 Yes. Go ahead, Bill. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: May I just interject here? 13 You know, that was my takeaway, quite honestly, from 14 the discussion that took place at both the Finance 15 Committee meeting and the first meeting at Council was 16 the fact that raises were proposed and the public 17 didn't have like an official opportunity to provide 18 input on the proposed raises. And, you know, one of 19 things I suggested with one of the council members was 20 that instead of going through this whole gyration of 21 amending the charter, wouldn't it be easier and just as 22 effective if the Salary Commission, on their own, 23 voluntarily amended their rules to incorporate language 24 that would afford the public an opportunity to have 25 prior documented information about what proposed raises ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 55 1 are? Might not even be proposed raises; it might be 2 raises to be stagnant or raises to be reduced. You 3 know, there's no guarantee. Or salaries to be reduced. 4 And we put a mechanism in place within our rules that 5 would capture the same essence as to what the council 6 is trying to accomplish with their charter amendment. 7 And, you know, that's something that can be quicker and 8 just as effective, and I think that's a great thing to 9 do, kind of a proactive approach. "We listened. We 10 heard what the public had to say, we hear what the 11 council is trying to do but yet-- look, we did it 12 already and it's in place." And, you know, that might 13 be a way to kind of curtail some of the discussion. 14 That's just my -- 15 CHR.ONO: That was not my idea. It was 16 actually -- it came out when we met with Bill guys 17 on -- Bill and Jennifer on the 22nd of February. I 18 said I love that. So we take the initiative and it's 19 part of a good process. 20 Any comment? 21 MR. PAVAO: It will be a whole lot cheaper 22 than trying to amend the charter. 23 CHR. ONO: George? 24 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. So in your proposal 25 there, posting for -- you've got 14 days and some other ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 56 1 time for two readings. As I look at the amended 2 proposed by council, it also says something about 3 putting it in the paper and giving copies of whatever 4 deliberations we do to the mayor's office and the 5 county clerk's office. Is that part of what you wanted 6 to consider, or are you considering less than what's in 7 the current -- 8 CHR. ONO: I don't know yet. 9 MR. BRILHANTE: Commissioner -- 10 CHR. ONO: Go ahead, Bill. 11 MR. BRILHANTE: Can I have a moment? 12 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 13 MR. BRILHANTE: Let me just jump in again. 14 There is a mechanism in place as it relates 15 to public meetings and public notice; and that's 16 pursuant to HRS Chapter 91. And I would say if we're 17 going to come up with some proposal or some type of 18 rule/legislation, my recommendation would be -- and I'm 19 sure Amy will -- well, she can speak for herself, but 20 I'll recommend we follow the guidelines that are 21 already in place. 22 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 23 MR. BRILHANTE: Then, you know, there's no 24 smoke and mirrors. We're transparent. We're doing 25 what everybody else has to do and we're just doing it ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 57 1 the right way. That's all we're trying to do is make 2 sure we cross all our is and dot all our i's, or vice ji It 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 versa. CHR. ONO: So what would that be, Bill? MR. BRILHANTE: It's HR Section 91. And it's like a 30 -day public notice. We publish an article within the paper, both in East and West Hawaii. In that notice, you have a general summary of what you are going to be discussing at the meeting, proposed salaries of the department heads, deputies, elected officials; and you can even list the proposed salaries if you're that far in. And it's a 30 -day notice. So instead of meeting in January, you have it published and you have the 30 days' notice, and they can come and testify if they are in agreement, in favor of, opposed to; and you take that information as part of your deliberation, and you can rule at that very next meeting. So it's just a one -two-step process. CHR. ONO: But this would not require a public hearing? MR. BRILHANTE: No. You don't have to incorporate that public hearing into that component. MR. CAMPBELL: Other than this meeting is a public meeting. MR. BRILHANTE: Exactly. That's what this ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 58 1 meeting is. And you tie it in, and you tie the 2 publication notice to the date of your next meeting. 3 CHR. ONO: Florence? 4 MS. IKEDA: Is it our culture to ask 5 either Bill or Amy to write up something for a 6 recommendation, you know, all those, specifics in it so 7 we could take a look at it? Because for us to come up 8 with it, we don't know all, you know, what is there; 9 it's just a recommendation. But you folks would be 10 able to state, and then we could take a look at it. It 11 would be a faster and, I think, a cleaner process for 12 us. 13 CHR. ONO: I'm willing to write the 14 draft, and you guys can work together on it. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. Historically, 16 Corporation Counsel has been more than happy to help 17 with rule amendments, at least in my experience. 18 MS. SELF: It sounds like you're talking 19 about two different things, though because if -- I 20 would say that we need to -- they already have rules, 21 so we would need to amend their rules -- 22 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. 23 MS. SELF: -- to include the procedure you 24 were just talking about. But the procedure you're 25 talking about is for when they are getting ready or ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 59 1 they have actual proposed salaries in mind. 2 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. And you're absolutely 3 correct. To do this amendment to your rules, it would 4 be a two-step process because this commission has to 5 follow HRS 91. To amend your rules, there's that whole 6 public notice. That one, you're going to have to have 7 a public meeting and the like in order to amend your 8 rules. But the substance of the rule is the public 9 notice requirements as it relates to proposed salaries 10 for department heads and elected officials. That's a 11 two-part process. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: So it's a court in Hawaii, 13 the Office of Information Practices; it's just above 14 and beyond? Just a more -- it's more? It's Sunshine 15 Law on steroids, basically, for us? 16 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, yes and no. The rule 17 amendment part, because this is a commission, a board 18 of commission, recognized official board of commission, 19 you guys are required to follow 91. As far as the 20 rules for adoption of salaries, you know, again, the 21 general requirement on the Sunshine Law is you give the 22 public sufficient information to make a determination 23 as to whether or not a particular individual wants to 24 come and testify or submit written testimony either in 25 opposition to or in favor of the proposed items on your ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 60 1 agenda. So it's like -- you're right; it's a public 2 notice requirement of a public notice requirement. 3 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 4 MR. BRILHANTE: And we're just making sure 5 that everything is lined up appropriately. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: Sure. 7 MR. HIGGINS: Bill, does HRS 91 address the 8 concept of voting percentages at all? 9 MR. BRILHANTE: No. That is not required. 10 Generally, it's under -- I believe that would be your 11 own rules and Robert's Rules of Evidence. For a motion 12 to pass, it's generally by a majority. 13 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. I was going to say this 14 goes beyond even the Supreme Court of the United States 15 of America. So I'm wondering what we say about that. 16 MS. SELF: I'm wondering is the purpose -- 17 okay, I'm still not clear. So, under Chapter 91 18 rule-making, the purpose of that is they have a 19 specific procedure that you follow under Chapter 91 to 20 amend your rules. So what I am hearing is that you 21 would amend the rules to include what's in 22 Council Member Sue Lee Loy's charter amendment? Is that 23 the purpose of it? 24 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. 25 What I would recommend is that -- I'm not ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 61 1 sure if we would follow that provision verbatim, but if 2 we pull out the pertinent and important parts from it 3 and we incorporate it into our rules, that would be 4 sufficient enough to kind of show everyone that we are 5 taking the information and discussions and the concerns 6 raised and we are incorporating them. I don't know if 7 it has to be verbatim, you know, lifted. 8 MS. SELF: Because I will do a draft of rule 9 amendments where I do a red line on your rules that 10 exist right now, because there are other rules that I 11 want to change. 12 CHR. ONO: I think we'll let Amy do -- 13 MS. SELF: Because, specifically, the one 14 about regular meetings, it says that general meetings 15 will be held on the second and fourth Wednesdays of 16 each month unless otherwise specified, but it's not 17 otherwise specified in here. Special meetings -- 18 MR. PAVAO: I thought what Bill -- 19 MS. SELF: Hold on. We've got more than one 20 person talking, and we have a reporter. That's driving 21 her crazy over here. 22 CHR. ONO: Join the commission. 23 MR. PAVAO: Amy, I thought what Bill was 24 alluding to was that, yeah, we change the rules and we 25 make the requirement for public notice but not ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 62 1 necessarily public hearing, correct? 2 CHR. ONO: Right. 3 MS. SELF: Well, all your meetings have to be 4 public. 5 MR. PAVAO: Yeah -- no, but not have a 6 specific public hearing meeting. I mean, they're 7 welcome to come to our meetings as long as we give them 8 one month prior notice. 9 MS. SELF: I was talking about the actual 10 rule-making procedure. So the content of a rule -- 11 because it's not anywhere in your rules right now, we 12 would have to add a new section to your rules to 13 include or to accommodate what's in here. 14 MR. PAVAO: Right. 15 MS. SELF: So what I would suggest is that 16 you go through her proposed charter amendments to 17 Section 13-28 of the Charter and let me know which of 18 these things you want to include so that -- you know, 19 because if you want -- the first one is the 20 publication, to publish in at least two daily 21 newspapers of general circulation in the county a 22 detailed account of its proposal or proposals, 23 including specific increases or decreases in both 24 actual dollar amounts and percentages. I'm reading off 25 the -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 63 1 CHR. ONO: The latest one? 2 MS. SELF: The latest one. 3 Oh, here it is. This one. 4 CHR. ONO: Why don't we do that right 5 now. 6 MS. SELF: Okay. 7 CHR. ONO: Go through this Bill 98, Draft 8 2, and identify the ones that we agree with; because it 9 will also serve as the basis for us testifying on this 10 bill as it appears in the future council meetings, what 11 we like, what we don't like. 12 MS. SELF: Two more. 13 MR. BRILHANTE: Two more. 14 MS. SELF: Two more readings. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: My concern is that -- I'm 16 going to defer to Amy -- I agree with what Chair Ono 17 has recommended, but is it properly agendized on 18 today's agenda? 19 CHR. ONO: It's there. 20 MS. SELF: Yeah, we had it. 21 MR. BRILHANTE: "Rules of Salary Commission." 22 Perfect. Okay. 23 MS. SELF: Yeah, "Rules of Salary 24 Commission." 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Okay. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 64 1 CHR. ONO: We just threw it on there to 2 be flexible. 3 MS. SELF: Okay. So council has two more 4 readings on Bill 98, Draft 2, and if they approve that, 5 that will go on the ballot in the fall, in the November 6 election. And, if it gets approved through the election 7 process, then it becomes part of the charter. 8 So, if the commission wants to try and amend 9 its rules in order to accommodate these changes, we can 10 at least get a draft together before the next council 11 reading, and then Chair Ono could -- 12 MR. BRILHANTE: Present it. 13 MS. SELF: -- during public testimony, he 14 could present that to them. 15 MR. FRATINARDO: Excuse me, Amy. I have a 16 question. So is 98 up for discussion right new? 17 CHR. ONO: Yep. 18 MR. FRATINARDO: So where it says "hold at 19 least one public hearing," so in our administrative 20 rules, it talks about a hearing officer. So there's a 21 difference between -- I mean, technically this is a 22 hearing, but a hearing would be a hearing officer, like 23 it says in our administrative rules? 24 MR. BRILHANTE: No, no, no. Under Chapter 25 91, a hearing is just like a general public discussion. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 65 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Okay. 2 MR. BRILHANTE: An opportunity, a set date, a 3 set time specific where the public can come in and 4 give public testimony and the decision -makers are there 5 to hear what they have to say and, again, part of the 6 deliberative process. 7 You know, let's take a step back, though, 8 just so everybody knows what we're discussing. In your 9 binder, there's a section that's called "Bill No.98 10 Draft 2." And what this - is this is the official 11 legislative submittal to the council. And if you look 12 at the document, the language that isn't underlined is 13 the language that we currently have in place in the 14 charter. The proposed amendments to this is all the 15 language you see with the underline under it. And 16 that's the proposals. If you see anything with a line 17 through it, that's original language that's proposing 18 to be stricken, but we don't have any of that here. 19 We're just discussing the underlined portion, which is 20 section E. 21 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes, this one. That's what 22 I'm referring to. 23 CHR. ONO: So can we go through them one, 24 two, three? Is there a four? There's an (f). 25 MR. HIGGINS: (f). ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 66 1 CHR. ONO: Okay. Agree on the ones that 2 we're fine with and then talk about the ones that we're 3 not so fine with? 4 MR. HIGGINS: And just to clarify, so what 5 we're comfortable with or we want to change, it is to 6 prepare you for your appearance before the next County 7 Council meeting. Isn't that right? 8 MS. SELF: Uh-huh. 9 MR. HIGGINS: In that you would make -- 10 whatever we decide here, you would present that with 11 the purpose of getting them to change this 98 to draft 12 3? 13 CHR. ONO: Change or not even proceed 14 with it. 15 MR. HIGGINS: Get rid of it or what? 16 MR. BRILHANTE: What happens now in the 17 process is that we're at second reading. 18 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 19 MR. BRILHANTE: For proposed charter 20 amendments at a committee meeting and then at three 21 subsequent County Council meetings. So, now, as Amy 22 stated, we're at meeting No. 2. Under the requirements 23 as well, not only do they have to hear it, but by a 24 supermajority, at least seven of the nine council member 25 votes, the council has to adopt the proposed change. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 67 1 If at any time during the first, second, or third 2 reading the council votes against adopting the change, 3 then the matter dies. 4 So, with Chair Ono's testimony, it could be 5 council decides to amend the proposed changes, or they 6 don't get the supermajority vote and the matter will 7 die then. They may feel comfortable enough that you 8 know what? The commission is satisfying our concerns 9 by this proposed rule change. 10 CHR. ONO: And Jim was there at the 11 Finance Committee meeting in Kona where I did mention 12 that we were looking at the future and we have 13 something in mind; it was too premature for me to 14 disclose what that was because we had not even 15 discussed it on our agenda. So I felt that that in 16 itself would address, you know, what they're trying to 17 achieve at this meeting. 18 But anyway -- 19 MR. HIGGINS: Terrific. 20 CHR. ONO: -- (e) (1) : Publish at least once 21 in at least two daily newspapers or general circulation 22 a detailed account of its proposal or proposals 23 including specific increases or decreases in both 24 actual dollar amounts and percentages. I don't see any 25 problem with that. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 68 1 MR. FRATINARDO: I'm good. 2 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 3 Consensus? All agree? 4 Yeah, all agree. 5 The second one: Hold at least one public 6 hearing, either in East Hawaii or West Hawaii, provide 7 that any public hearing shall be conducted using video 8 conference technology or allow for public participation 9 from both East and West Hawai'i." 10 And -- 11 MR. BRILHANTE: Just to add to that, you 12 know, the Salary Commission does have the capability of 13 setting up a commission meeting here in the council 14 chambers where we can tie in through video stream to 15 the Kona council chambers, and we can satisfy this 16 similar requirement by just holding our regular meeting 17 which is tied into the video streaming; so I don't 18 really see that as a real hindrance, you know, moving 19 forward. 20 CHR. ONO: Does the word "public hearing" 21 connote something which is unusual? 22 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, we shouldn't say -- 23 maybe I would amend that language to remove the public 24 hearing requirement and just hold a regularly scheduled 25 meeting. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 69 1 MR. FRATINARDO: Can we just say "commission 2 meeting"? 3 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. 4 MR. FRATINARDO: That's what I was asking 5 before. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: Just our normal -- it 8 coincides with our normal commission meeting. 9 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. 10 MS. IKEDA: Could we say something 11 that our meetings coincide with public so that it's 12 open to the public -- 13 MS. SELF: It has to be anyway. 14 MS. IKEDA: Yeah, it has to be. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: It's statutorily required. 16 MS. IKEDA: But I think my thing on 17 this is maybe it's not clear, so that's why they're 18 asking for a public hearing, but if we made it clear 19 that our commission meetings are open to the public, 20 that this would not have to be, or we just have to do a 21 update on whatever is in place. 22 MS. SELF: No, I think the reason this came 23 up is they know that our meetings have to be public 24 because of Sunshine Law, but I think the reason she put 25 this in was because she wanted it to be known on both ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 70 1 sides of the island; because you guys have been having 2 your meetings only in Hilo, and I told her that you had 3 discussed having meetings on both sides, but everybody 4 was willing to come to Hilo, so they just continued to 5 have them in Hilo. 6 So, I think my question is if you're going to 7 go along with this, do you want the rule to indicate 8 that your meetings will be video conferenced in Kona? I 9 mean, is this for every meeting -- 10 MR. BRILHANTE: No, no, no. 11 MS. SELF: -- or just when you come to 12 your -- 13 CHR. ONO: Just for the salary -- 14 MS. SELF: Okay. Just when you come up with 15 the salary proposal, then you would -- once you have 16 those proposals put together, then you would have it 17 video conferenced? 18 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. And that would be -- 19 the requirement in Section E is: for the approval of 20 salary adjustments, the Salary Commission shall. 21 MS. SELF: Okay. 22 MR. BRILHANTE: So, if we specified this 23 criteria will only be incorporated or be followed if 24 we're specifically approving or considering salary 25 adjustments. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 71 1 MS. SELF: Okay. 2 MR. PAVAO: In my opinion, I think No. 2 3 should be deleted. I don't think we need to have 4 public hearings. These meetings are open to the public 5 anyway. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Salary Commission meeting. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: Normal Salary Commission 8 meeting. 9 MR. PAVAO: Delete No. 2 entirely instead of 10 just modifying it. 11 MR. BRILHANTE: I think it's behoovant on us, 12 at least to complete the process, where we do say that 13 when it comes to salary adjustments, we will not only 14 publish it 30 days in advance, but we will have a 15 special meeting -- we will have a meeting -- don't use 16 "special"; there's legal connotation -- we will have a 17 Salary Commission meeting to discuss these proposed 18 salary adjustments. 19 MS. SELF: And video conference that. 20 MR. PAVAO: But we do that anyway. 21 MS. SELF: No, we don't video conference. 22 MR. PAVAO: We don't video conference. We 23 have a meeting anyway. The only difference is the 24 video conference, right? 25 MS. SELF: Yeah. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 72 1 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. I think although we 2 understand that we do it anyway, but I think from a 3 public standpoint, the confidence of seeing it in 4 writing goes a long way with buying support. 5 MR. CAMPBELL: It doesn't hurt anything 6 because we do it anyway. 7 MR. PAVAO: We're just trying to make this 8 palatable to the council, then, basically? That's what 9 we're trying to do? 10 MR. HIGGINS: Yes. 11 MR. CAMPBELL: You got it. 12 MR. HIGGINS: That's right on. 13 MR. PAVAO: That's sad. 14 MS. SELF: So I'll ask Bill to help me with 15 drafting the language for No. (2) but, basically, it 16 would be that once you have a list of proposed salary 17 changes, that you will have a Salary Commission meeting 18 that will be video conferenced in Kona. 19 But, anyway, I'll have him help me with that. 20 CHR. ONO: Bill, you understand what 21 we're trying to get at? 22 MR. BRILHANTE: Yes. We can work together. 23 MR. HIGGINS: Mr. Chairman, sorry to do this 24 to everybody, but going back to (1), before we get 25 further down, to me, that's not clean enough. That's ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 73 1 kind of an open door. It's published at least once. 2 Now, when we have a proposal and we start talking in 3 January -- or December, when we start our negotiation 4 talking about this and we come up with some kind of 5 proposal, do we have to publish that for then, and 6 then, our subsequent meeting, to say -- let's say in 7 June, when it's right before the budget and we have a 8 final proposal? 9 I mean, in other words, should we eliminate 10 or put in the words that "This is our final proposal" 11 rather than having an account of its proposal or 12 proposals? In other words, this could go on. You see 13 what I'm saying is try to eliminate and streamline it 14 rather than create more commotion. 15 MR. BRILHANTE: The problem in using the 16 language of "final proposal" is that it looks like a 17 conclusion has already been reached. And then, you 18 know, what's the purpose of the public hearing? Why do 19 you want to come down and testify if the commission has 20 already made up their mind? And the whole rationale 21 behind a public hearing is that the public comes in, 22 gives input, and maybe identifies specific areas -- 23 MR. HIGGINS: But No. (1) doesn't apply to 24 The hearing; it applies to publishing in the newspapers 25 an account. So every time we have a meeting and we're ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 74 1 talking about -- does that mean a proposal, and we come 2 up with "Well, let's do this" or "Let's make 2 3 percent," or "Let's go on the last collective 4 bargaining thing based on what HR gave us"? All I'm 5 trying to say is how many times do we have to publish 6 what we're doing? 7 CHR. ONO: I'm hoping once. So, your 8 intent is correct. 9 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, so I don't know the 10 answer. I'm just bringing it up. We don't want to -- 11 MR. BRILHANTE: I don't think we want to 12 publish anything that's premature. 13 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 14 MR. BRILHANTE: I would say -- 15 MR. HIGGINS: But is that what the council 16 wants? 17 MR. BRILHANTE: No, no. It says "upon 18 approval of any salary adjustment." Do you read that 19 as an approval? 20 MS. SELF: The first -- 21 MR. HIGGINS: Oh, the first part. 22 MS. SELF: The first sentence. 23 MR. HIGGINS: Okay. Pardon me. Thanks for 24 pointing that out. Whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo. Okay. 25 CHR. ONO: You're older than -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 75 1 MR. HIGGINS: I (inaudible) down. 2 CHR. ONO: Okay. So, No. (3) -- the only 3 question I have is: Submit copies of a detailed report. 4 What is that? 5 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, what does that mean? 6 MR. FRATINARDO: It's our minutes. 7 MR. BRILHANTE: It's your minutes, and it's 8 also -- you remember Chair Ono had his talking points. 9 MR. FRATINARDO: Yes. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: That's kind of some of the 11 information that I would say would be codified in this 12 requirement. 13 MR. PAVAO: Why don't we just take out the 14 word "detailed." Submit a report. 15 CHR. ONO: Agreed. 16 MS. IKEDA: Agreed. 17 CHR. ONO: Okay. 18 MS. SELF: So, that could be submitted with 19 the agenda of the meeting where you're going to vote on 20 your proposed increases, right? 21 MR. BRILHANTE: Yep. 22 MS. SELF: Okay. 23 MR. BRILHANTE: That would be a reasonable 24 course of action. 25 MS. SELF: Because why else -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 76 1 MR. BRILHANTE: Correct. 2 MS. SELF: That's the only time it would make 3 sense is make sure it's filed with the clerk and the 4 mayor's office at that time. 5 MR. BRILHANTE: Uh-huh. 6 MS. SELF: Okay. 7 MR. FRATINARDO: So can we include that, 8 then? You put that language in there, Amy, that it's 9 filed with the clerk? 10 MS. SELF: Yep. 11 CHR. ONO: So the next sentence is just: 12 Public notice required pursuant to this subsection 13 shall include notification of report of commission 14 findings and conclusions available. That's not a 15 problem. Don't see that as a problem. 16 The next one, however -- okay. 17 MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah. 18 CHR. ONO: It says: Any adjustment that 19 increases or decreases any salary by more than 10 20 percent shall require an affirmative vote of two-thirds 21 of the entire membership of the Salary Commission. 22 I'm not sure what that means, "entire 23 membership." You know, we don't have an entire 24 membership right now; we only have eight commissioners, 25 so -- ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 77 1 MR. CAMPBELL: So we could never get it. 2 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. 3 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, you would have to have 4 seven or eight or a unanimous vote as it stands right 5 now. And, you know, you can tweak that a little bit; 6 it can be by affirmative vote of two-thirds of the 7 entire membership of the Salary Commission who are 8 present at the meeting. 9 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 10 MR. BRILHANTE: And there's some provisions 11 in other commissions where they allow that. So, like if 12 only five of you show up, you know, it can -- well, you 13 know, I've got to defer to Amy, though, because there's 14 some language in your own rules that say what an 15 affirmative vote is. Even though you have nine 16 members, I think you still -- 17 MS. SELF: If it's not stated specifically in 18 the rule, it's covered under Section 13-4 of the 19 Charter, which controls what boards and commissions -- 20 your rules as they are right now are pretty lacking, so 21 I'm not sure if they have -- I don't think it's 22 mentioned in here. I think it's under section 13-4. 23 And it should be the majority of the membership, I 24 believe, because they're not just advisory. I think 25 for advisory, it's the majority of the members present, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 78 1 but for these guys, I think that it's -- but I'll check 2 on that. 3 MR. PAVAO: You don't think we can just 4 delete (f) and just our normal majority vote? Why do we 5 need (f) ? 6 MS. SELF: Sorry. I think she put that -- 7 that's specific to the 40 percent increase of the one 8 salary. I think that's why she put that in there was 9 because anything over 10 percent -- in that case, it 10 was over 10 percent, but it's because it was over a 11 ten-year period of time. But I think the reason she 12 wanted that was to avoid that in the future, to not 13 give anything over 10 percent any one year without 14 increasing the number of votes required for membership. 15 MR. FRATINARDO: Amy, I have 13-4 up if you 16 want to look at it. I have it here. 17 MS. SELF: Does that require a majority of 18 the membership to vote in the affirmative -- 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Just scroll through it. 20 MS. SELF: Okay. 21 MR. BRILHANTE: And, again, just from my own 22 perspective, what transpired this past January and 23 February as it relates to the raises, you know, being 24 of such significance in nature, again, was a very 25 unusual circumstance and a very unusual occurrence. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 79 1 You know, moving forward, I really don't see the 2 necessity for raises being in excess of 10 percent if 3 you guys are going to be meeting on a regular basis and 4 being diligent in the requirements set forth in the 5 charter. But even if you're not and we do fall into a 6 position where we do have a significant time without 7 raises for department heads and the like, if we are 8 going to propose in the future a 30 percent raise or a 9 40 percent raise, maybe I'm not opposed to some type of 10 language where it would be by supermajority, you know, 11 of the commission. 12 CHR. ONO: I don't have any problem with 13 this, because I think for something like that, if it's 14 significant, we should - hopefully, a majority -- not a 15 majority, but unanimous vote; we all agree. But, of 16 course we all understand that what we went through at 17 the beginning of this year was extraordinary. 18 MS. SELF: Yeah. I think it's because, you 19 know, it is dependent upon the mayor to appoint members 20 to the Salary Commission. If that doesn't happen, then 21 this could happen again; but I don't see how this 22 language would -- I think all of your votes were a 23 two-thirds, anyway, when you voted the salaries. 24 MR. PAVAO: Amy, if this language is going to 25 be here, it needs to be changed. Just being a ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 7 majority vote. 8 MR. PAVAO: I agree with that, but they want Page 80 1 technical nerd about it, you know, the way it reads: If 2 you get more than two-thirds of the vote, then it 3 doesn't pass, because it says "of two-thirds." It 4 should be "of two thirds or more." you know what I'm 5 saying? 15 MR. PAVAO: You need to change that language. 6 MR. FRATINARDO: It should just say the 7 majority vote. 8 MR. PAVAO: I agree with that, but they want 9 to keep two-thirds; but the way it's written, it 10 doesn't make sense. "Affirmative vote of two-thirds." 11 What if you get more than two-thirds? It should be 12 two-thirds or more. 13 MS. SELF: Or "at least two-thirds." 14 CHR. ONO: That can be written in. 15 MR. PAVAO: You need to change that language. 16 CHR. ONO: Yeah. 17 MR. PAVAO: If you're a nerd and you read 18 this, if you get more than two-thirds, then 19 theoretically it doesn't pass. 20 CHR. ONO: I never knew you were a nerd. 21 MR. HIGGINS: I never knew, and I'm sitting 22 right next to him. 23 MR. PAVAO: Seriously, if you look at the 24 wording 25 MS. SELF: One at a time. Everyone remember, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 81 1 be kind. 2 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, if you look at the wording, 3 it doesn't make sense. 4 MS. SELF: I'll add "at least" to this. 5 CHR. ONO: Then what does that mean? You 6 know, it's unclear to me. Give it some thought, Amy, 7 "the entire membership." 8 MR. BRILHANTE: That's the point I was going 9 to make. It could be argued both ways, right? It 10 could be "the entire membership," meaning all nine 11 districts? Or the entire membership of all nine 12 districts currently filled? Or all districts currently 13 filled? 14 MS. SELF: No, "the entire membership" 15 means -- you have nine members on this commission, so 16 it's the entire membership of the commission, which is 17 all nine members. If there are vacancies, it's 18 still -- you have to have two-thirds; and if you don't 19 have enough, it still has to be two-thirds of all nine. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: So, earlier, Bill was 21 explaining that there was a special circumstance that 22 came up where they had to appoint five -- they had to 23 appoint the quorum to address salaries. So what if we 24 got a situation like that again where it's not our 25 fault, but it's the mayor's fault for not nominating ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 82 1 that personnel? So that's a special circumstance which 2 would go against what this says. 3 MS. SELF: So in the Charter, 13-4, which 4 applies to boards and commissions that are created by 5 charter, which you guys were, it says that the 6 affirmative vote of a majority of the entire membership 7 to which a board or commission is entitled shall be 8 necessary to make any action valid. 9 So, you could -- 10 MR. PAVAO: Entitle the membership. 11 MS. SELF: Yeah. And it could be that if 12 there's a concern -- because it's going to be the 13 entire membership, so it doesn't matter. If you're 14 down to five members, you have four vacancies, you're 15 not going to be able to have a two-thirds, right? 16 Because it would take six votes to pass this. So maybe 17 you could just model it after what's in 13-4, which 18 says: the affirmative vote of a majority of the entire 19 membership to which the commission is entitled. 20 MR. FRATINARDO: Right. 21 MR. PAVAO: At the same -- I'm sorry. What 22 if you just say "two-thirds of the entitled membership 23 of the Salary Commission"? 24 MS. SELF: But that's the problem we were 25 just talking about. If you don't have enough ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 83 1 members -- 2 MR. PAVAO: Then it won't happen. 3 MS. SELF: Yeah, you wouldn't be able to get 4 a vote, because you only have -- your quorum is five. 5 MR. PAVAO: But that's not two-thirds. 6 MS. SELF: Right. So if you have no more 7 than three vacancies, you could get your two-thirds. 8 MR. PAVAO: Yeah, because you need six. 9 MS. SELF: Right. 10 MR. HIGGINS: When you're talking about 11 vacancies, are you meaning those that don't show up at 12 a meeting? 13 MS. SELF: No. 14 MR. HIGGINS: Well, right now, we have nine. 15 What if only six show up and you had a vote? You would 16 have to have 100 percent vote? 17 MS. SELF: Right. 18 MR. HIGGINS: That's ridiculous. 19 MR. PAVAO: Yep. 20 MS. SELF: Whereas -- 21 MR. HIGGINS: What are they thinking about? 22 MS. SELF: -- according to the charter -- 23 they want to make it, I think, more difficult. 24 MR. HIGGINS: Well, I know what they want. 25 MS. SELF: Well, this is because if it's over ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 84 1 10 percent. 2 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah, well, that would have 3 taken four years to do, theoretically. Come on. What 4 are we -- I mean, our country operates on majority 5 votes for most important discussions, changes, laws, 6 et cetera. What are we even talking about, raising it 7 up to two-thirds? 8 CHR. ONO: You know, maybe, with the 9 approval of this Salary Commission, when we show up at 10 the next county council meeting, we should lobby to 11 have this thing removed, primarily because the changes 12 that we've implemented, you know, making the public 13 notification 30 days, all the information published -- 14 MR. FRATINARDO: So I have a question for 15 you, Hugh. We all represent a district, and we all 16 have a councilperson in that district. Why can't we 17 just go up and talk to our own councilperson and tell 18 them what our feelings are? 19 MR. PAVAO: Then we become politicians. 20 CHR. ONO: No, nothing precluding anybody 21 from doing that. 22 MR. FRATINARDO: I mean, there's no Sunshine 23 Law which controls my -- I mean, I'll voice my opinion 24 that way, and then we can have you as the chair and the 25 vice -chair formally address the council. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 85 1 CHR. ONO: You know what? They're going 2 to adopt what they want to adopt anyway; but why don't 3 we suggest that that may not be necessary because we're 4 going to be addressing the salary adjustments on a 5 timely basis? 6 MR. PAVAO: I agree. 7 CHR. ONO: Like up to two times a year. 8 MR. PAVAO: I would delete it. 9 MR. HIGGINS: Yeah. Me, too. 10 MR. CAMPBELL: Either that or use the word 11 "majority," like we use now. 12 MR. FRATINARDO: Right. 13 MR. BRILHANTE: How about something like 14 this. And, again, just kind of looking at it. 15 CHR. ONO: Sure. 16 MR. BRILHANTE: Again, go to "Affirmative 17 majority vote of the entire membership of the Salary 18 Commission with at least a two-thirds majority vote of 19 the Salary Commission members present or who are 20 present"? 21 CHR. ONO: Yep. 22 MR. BRILHANTE: So it's a two -prong. One is 23 it's an affirmative vote of the entire membership of 24 the Salary Commission, and then the second prong is 25 with at least a two-thirds majority vote of the Salary ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 86 1 Commission members who are present. 2 CHR. ONO: Are you guys okay with that? 3 MR. BRILHANTE: So it's, like, two-pronged. 4 MR. HIGGINS: I'm not, but that's okay. I'm 5 just one. I'm never going to be all right with the 6 two-thirds no matter what you say. 7 MR. PAVAO: That's a conflict of terms 8 though, "the entire membership," then you go with -- 9 MR. BRILHANTE: Your entire membership is 10 nine, right? 11 MR. PAVAO: Yeah. 12 MR. BRILHANTE: But right now, you don't even 13 have nine. So what we're saying is -- 14 MR. FRATINARDO: So, if there's seven present, 15 two-thirds of the seven. 16 MR. BRILHANTE: -- you have to get at least 17 five affirmative votes. That's the majority. So it's 18 a majority of the entire membership. Then, in addition 19 to that, it has to be two-thirds votes of the members 20 present. So not only do you need majority, but you 21 need the two-thirds vote. So, it's two pronged. 22 If you have five, the only way you're going 23 to get it approved is if all five vote for it, right? 24 CHR. ONO: No, four. 25 MR. BRILHANTE: Well, yeah, you can do four, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 87 1 but then -- 2 MS. SELF: Yeah, because five would be the 3 majority that you need to have a meeting. Five would 4 be the majority you need to get to have a meeting, 5 right? 6 MR. BRILHANTE: Right. 7 MS. SELF: To meet the quorum requirement. 8 And four would be the two-thirds. 9 MR. BRILHANTE: Right. So, under the rules, 10 five would have to be -- you would have to get all five 11 to get majority of the Salary Commission membership, 12 because you have a nine -member commission, so four 13 wouldn't pass. 4-1, it wouldn't pass, you know, but 14 4-1 would pass the supermajority requirement. 15 CHR. ONO: Okay, let's poll. 16 MR. BRILHANTE: And we can work -- 17 CHR. ONO: Let's listen to the rest of 18 the commission members over here. 19 We know what Jim thinks and what Milton 20 thinks but, George, what do you think? 21 MR. CAMPBELL: I suggest we just take it out. 22 CHR. ONO: Remove it? 23 MR. CAMPBELL: Remove it. 24 CHR. ONO: Okay. 25 Dr. Dow? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 MR. DOW: One thing that occurred to me as I 2 read this, I don't see anything here that talks about 3 annual salary increases. If we're meeting twice a year 4 and make adjustments twice a year of 6 percent each 5 time, we've already gotten by that 10 percent 6 requirement on two-thirds vote. 7 CHR. ONO: Uh-huh. 8 MR. DOW: We can make that a moot point. 9 CHR. ONO: I think, for the most part, if 10 the commission does its job, it is a moot point. It's 11 extraordinary, but if we do our job, then it's going to 12 get up to 10 percent on this -- football coach. 13 MR. FRATINARDO: Well, this proposal, in my 14 experience, is just an attempt to micromanage the 15 Salary Commission, bottom line. They want to 16 micromanage us. 17 CHR. ONO: So you would be in favor of 18 leaving it out? 19 MR. FRATINARDO: Leaving it out. 20 CHR. ONO: Okay. 21 Nelson? 22 MR. HARANO: I like what Mr. Brilhante had 23 said except the very end, about the ones at the 24 meeting. For example, five at the meeting -- 5-1 to 25 get quorum and voting either 5-0 or 4-1 for the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 89 1 supermajority. That part I would like to strike out. 2 I don't like the idea of five being here and then, you 3 know, whatever the vote -- the way the vote will fall 4 out. I think it should be of the entire membership, 5 our nine right now, so -- otherwise, you know, I like 6 what Bill has said, just not at the end. 7 CHR. ONO: Florence? 8 MS. IKEDA: I would leave it out, and 9 if there is any feedback from the council, then we 10 address it at the time. 11 CHR. ONO: Here's what the Chair wants to 12 do. Okay? Our intention will be to leave it out. 13 Okay? But certainly, when we go to the council 14 meeting, and should we testify, we will find out where 15 they stand on this. Because if they insist on putting 16 it in, they're going to put it in anyway. And, 17 hopefully, what we've done preceding this requirement 18 will address their concerns that we're going to have 19 these publications and meetings and the meeting in Kona 20 videoed and all that, with our rules rewritten. 21 MR. PAVAO: One thing I would like to kind of 22 ask that we stress at the council meeting, you know, 23 when you attend the meeting to present the facts, let 24 it be known to them that changing our rules would be a 25 whole lot cheaper than trying to change it in the ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 90 1 charter. So if they can work with us and change our 2 rule such that we don't need a charter amendment, the 3 County would be saving a lot of money. 4 MR. BRILHANTE: And, if at the very root of 5 this whole thing is because we're trying to be 6 fiscally responsible, that kind of goes along those 7 lines. 8 But I was just going to say there's no 9 problem with having plan A and plan B, you know. And 10 we can just be plan A is this is what we're proposing, 11 and we're going to have another meeting to address any 12 concerns that are raised at the next council meeting. 13 Again, the council meeting is on March 28th. That's 14 the second reading. And then the final reading would 15 be April 11th. 16 And thanks to Glynis Yamada for providing 17 that information. 18 CHR. ONO: Okay. March 28th. 19 MR. FRATINARDO: What I would like to see, 20 Bill, is that there is more dialogue between us and the 21 county council, and I would say specifically the 22 chairman of the council, to address these situations, 23 that it just kind of just snuck up on us. Why couldn't 24 they just say, "Hey, these are our feelings." Because 25 they were invited to testify, and only one person ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 91 1 showed up and one submitted a letter. And I think it's 2 incumbent on the chairman of the council that they are 3 communicating with us. So I don't know why they are so 4 afraid to show up at these meetings, because I invited 5 them all and only one showed up. 6 MR. BRILHANTE: And, you know, I will say 7 this to the defense of the council, that -- I'm not 8 going to make any statement as to what the rationale or 9 the impetus -- you know, I don't want to say it was 10 political grandstanding, but there was definitely a 11 basis for this matter to come forward by Councilwoman 12 Lee Loy and that is what it is. But the bottom line 13 is, at the end of the day, it got traction from the 14 public. It clearly did, right, in the comments we hear 15 and the like; the public has embraced it, it's gotten 16 traction, and there's been, you know, sufficient 17 information provided to us just from the public arena, 18 you know, to say that, yeah, they would like to see a 19 little more statutory requirements or regulated 20 requirements in place when we're going to do pay 21 raises. 22 And, you know, that being said, you know, if 23 we come back with a proposal -- it doesn't have to be a 24 verbatim proposal. That's initially what I said. If 25 we come back with a proposal that, for the most part, ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 92 1 addresses the concerns that were raised, it still gives 2 us room, you know, to maneuver or make revisions at the 3 end, but I think it shows good faith from the 4 commission. Okay, we hear the public, we hear the 5 concerns -- and you know what? We're going to 6 incorporate it. 7 And, you're right, it goes to the fact that do 8 we want duplication of process? Do we want additional 9 costs and expenditures? Those are all the issues that 10 comport with -- you know, we're doing it. The rules 11 will be amended or have been amended, and, therefore, 12 we don't need a charter amendment. That's basically 13 our selling point, right, to the council. 14 MS. SELF: But don't say that they will be 15 amended before, because we don't have time to get the 16 rules changed -- 17 MR. BRILHANTE: Right. 18 MS. SELF: -- because we have to go through a 19 public hearing for a rule change. 20 And I wouldn't say that you are going to -- 21 because you're not going to adopt it as a rule change 22 verbatim, so I would not allude to that in front of the 23 council, just indicate that you are proposing to go 24 through a rule-making change to have the commission's 25 rules say something similar to this or, you know, just ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 93 1 indicate that "We're trying to adopt as much of this." 2 It might be better, though, to have something -- 3 MR. BRILHANTE: Yeah. And that's why I kind 4 of have -- like to your point, to have something -- a 5 draft -- 6 MS. SELF: Yeah. 7 MR. BRILHANTE: -- you know, proposal, that 8 you could provide would go a long ways, you know. Like 9 I said, the draft doesn't have to be verbatim. It can 10 be pretty on point, but -- that's what I would -- 11 CHR. ONO: May I have a motion to allow 12 either myself or Florence or both of us to represent at 13 the next council meeting where this bill appears? 14 MR. FRATINARDO: I make that motion. 15 MR. PAVAO: Second. 16 CHR. ONO: Second? Moved and seconded. 17 Any discussion on that? I don't think so. 18 All those in favor say "Aye." 19 (All members responded affirmatively.) 20 CHR. ONO: That motion is carried. We 21 can represent. 22 So, with that, let me kind of conclude where 23 we are. So our plan is to incorporate these amendments 24 into our procedure. And, of course, we have to go 25 through the administrative rule-making procedure to ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 94 1 adopt them. So the timing is not perfect but at least 2 we can go to the next council meeting, which would be 3 their third meeting? Second. 4 MS. SELF: Second. 5 CHR. ONO: The second. And we can 6 represent what we're doing, was not able to do that the 7 last time because it wasn't even agendized on ours; 8 there was just discussion. 9 I think this is very significant, what we've 10 discussed today and what we intend to do in the future 11 to address this area. 12 Anything else on that? 13 MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. 14 CHR. ONO: Yes, George. 15 MR. CAMPBELL: If we're going to do the 16 administrative rule process -- Amy alluded to it 17 earlier, but it would be great if she could red -line 18 the things in there, in our rules, that need to be 19 changed anyway, like our meeting times and things like 20 that, things that are just totally out of date -- 21 CHR. ONO: Yep. 22 MR. CAMPBELL: -- so we can do it all at one 23 time. 24 CHR. ONO: Agreed. Good suggestion. 25 MR. HIGGINS: Terrific. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 95 1 MS. SELF: I have one other question, because 2 I am going to be doing a red -line. So are you going to 3 keep (f) in or take it out? 4 MR. PAVAO: I thought we agreed to take it 5 out. 6 MR. CAMPBELL: Take it out. 7 MS. SELF: It is going to come out? 8 CHR. ONO: Well, we're flexible on that, 9 but we want it out. I hear the majority wanting it 10 out. We'll see how that -- 11 MR. CAMPBELL: We'll see how that goes. 12 MS. SELF: So, the draft, I'll just leave it 13 out for purposes of -- and I'll get with you on it. 14 MR. BRILHANTE: You know, Chair, I'm going to 15 request that you entertain another motion to -- not 16 only for you and Vice -Chair Ikeda to attend the 17 meeting, but to present a draft proposed rule amendment 18 to the council at that time. 19 CHR. ONO: Good idea. Need a motion to 20 present a draft to them of what we've discussed? 21 MR. PAVAO: I don't think so. 22 MR. DOW: Do we have to vote on the draft 23 before you can submit it? Do we need to vote on a 24 draft before it's submitted? 25 MR. BRILHANTE: The draft is just the draft. ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 96 1 It doesn't have to be affirmatively voted on. 2 MR. DOW: Okay. 3 CHR. ONO: So do we need a motion to do 4 that? 5 MR. BRILHANTE: Just to be clean, you know, 6 then there is -- 7 CHR. ONO: Okay. I think what Human 8 Resources is asking, just to make it part of our 9 official discussion, that it is agreeable with this 10 commission to present the county council with a draft 11 of the amendments that we just discussed. 12 MR. HIGGINS: So moved. 13 MR. PAVAO: Seconded. 14 CHR. ONO: Moved and seconded. 15 Any discussion? 16 All in favor? 17 (All members responded affirmatively.) 18 CHR. ONO: Motion carried. 19 Okay. Any items to be placed on the next 20 agenda, next meeting? 21 MR. PAVAO: Same type of donuts. 22 CHR. ONO: Okay. Also, the next meeting 23 is scheduled for April 26, 2018. Thursday, again, 10:00 24 again. 25 And, Glynis, is it going to be in here again? ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Page 97 1 MS. YAMADA: All right. 2 CHR. ONO: In here? 3 MS. SELF: Say that again, the date. 4 CHR. ONO: April 28th. 5 MS. IKEDA: 26th. 6 CHR. ONO: See, I don't remember what I 7 said. Yeah, it's the 26th. I wrote it down. Okay. I 8 wrote it down. 9 Thanks so much. That concludes our meeting. 10 Thank you very much. We are getting a lot done. We 11 really are. 12 MS. SELF: You need to adjourn the meeting. 13 CHR. ONO: Motion to adjourn. 14 MS. IKEDA: So moved. 15 CHR. ONO: Florence moved. 16 MR. PAVAO: Second. 17 CHR. ONO: Milton. 18 Okay. Moved and seconded to adjourn. All 19 those in favor say "Aye." 20 (All members responded affirmatively.) 21 CHR. ONO: The meeting is adjourned. 22 (The meeting adjourned at 12:13 p.m.) 23 24 25 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 1 STATE OF HAWAII ) 2 ) ss. 3 COUNTY OF HAWAII ) 4 5 I, TERI HOSKINS, a certified court 6 reporter in the State of Hawaii, do hereby certify 7 that the foregoing pages are a true and correct 8 transcription of the proceedings in the above matter. 9 10 Dated this 6th day of April, 2018. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 /Teri Hoskins/ Teri Hoskins, RMR, CSR No. 452 ISLAND COURT REPORTING & TRANSCRIPTION SERVICES (808) 933-9800 Ms. Teri Hoskins, Certified Court Reporter, transcribed the aforementioned proceedings of the Salary Commission at its meeting held on March 22, 2018. Glynis Yamada, Secretary, Salary Commission, had incorporated some minor formatting/housekeeping revisions throughout the transcript. Respectfully Submitted, VP,(4)/1,CL qa,Matia Glynis Yamada, Secretary APPROVED: Hugh Y. Ono, P. E., Chair Salary Commission ANOTHER SUGGESTION to address FUTURE POSITIONS under the SALARY COMMISSION: Based on:The positions shown below would be set by the Salary Commission at a Level above the Position Reporting to each.Once appointed and salary set,each position would automatically increase with Collective Bargaining Negotiated Agreement. THREE(3)POSITION ELECTED OFFICIALS& OFFICIALS APPOINTED by MAYOR,COMMISSIONS OR CATEGORIES: MANAGING DIRECTORS: COUNTY COUNCIL: COMMENTS: SALARIES BELOW ESTABLISHED BY THE SALARY COMMISSION EFFECTIVE IN 2018: 1. Mayor:$162,582 1. Police Chief*: $153,720 Positions that require 2.Council Members:$70,006 2. Dep.Police Chief*: $145,966 Special Certifications or more 3.Chair,Council:$77,016 3. Fire Chief": $151,200 than minimum qualifications. 4.Pros.Atty.:$153,228 4. Dep.Fire Chief*:$143,640 5.Dep.Pros.Atty.:$145,968 5. Human Res.Dire: $128,626 6. Managing Director:5153,622 6. Liquor Control Dir: $126,420 7. Deputy MD:$132,744 7.Planning Director":$132,744 8. Dep.Planning*: $126,420 9. Public Works Dir*: $132,582 10.Deputy PW Dir: $128,264 11.Env.Mgrnt.Dir*: $132,744 POSITION TITLES,CURRENT 12.Dep.Env.Mgmt.Dir:$125,420 SALARY&SALARY RANGES: 13.Finance Dir*: $132,726 14.Dep.Fin.Dir: $128,402 15.Parks Dir: $128,760 16.Dep.Parks Dir:$122,626 17.Hse&Comm Dev Dir:$126,420 18.Res.&Dev.Dir: $128,420 19.Dep.Res.&Dev.Dir: $113,778 20.Corp.Counsel*: $153,228 21.Asst.Corp.Caunsel*: $145,968 22.County Clerk: $126,420 23.Dep.County Clerk:$113,778 24.County Auditor: 126,420 25. Info.Tech Dir*: $126,420 1.All of above are Elected C .sitions were and will be set by Mayor's Office. Baldry,,.un,r,:,,:0:, 2.Salaries for above positions will be set by 2.In accordance with it's adopted adminstrative procedures. authority to decide. HOW SALARIES WILL BE the Salary Commission. 3.Incremental adjustments will occur in accordance to the same 2.Salary Commission car SET: 3.In accordance with it's adopted annual provisions that are used by collective bargaining and the allow input by these administrative procedures. Excluded Management. appointing Authorities. 3.Salaries can be lower upon request. 1.Before the beginning of each term 1.Salaries will be reviewed by Commission at minimum once every 1.Initial Salaries&Pay would duration of office. four(4)years or co-terminus with the County Council or Appointing be at the beginning of new 2.For Mayor,Prosecuting Attorney,Dep. Boards. terms. Prosecuting Attorney and Managing Directors 2.Annual adjustments can be made as determined by the Salary 2.Adjustments could be at minimum once every four(4)years. Commission or as recommended by the Appointing Officers and more collaborative giving the 3.For County Council and Chair at minimum Boards. appointing authorities more PROCEDURE ON SETTING once every two(2)years. input by submitting AND ADJUSTING SALARIES: 4.Annual adjustments can be made as recommendations. determined by the Salary Commission oras recommended by the Appointing Authority. 1.To address the intent of the Proposed Charter Amendment,all new salaries shall be posted for a period of not less that 14 days prior to that next Salary Commission meeting. 2.Adoption of new Salaries would be subject to approval by two(2)readings. ATT. A -.tV OF M`�Y II4 COUNTY OF HAWAII • .'/ • STATE OF HAWAII BILL NO. 98 (DRAFT 2) ORDINANCE NO. AN ORDINANCE TO INITIATE AN AMENDMENT TO ARTICLE XIII,SECTION 13- 28 OF THE HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER(2016 EDITION),RELATING TO THE SALARY COMMISSION. BE IT ORDAINED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII: SECTION 1. Article XIII, section 13-28 of the Hawai`i County Charter(2016 Edition), is amended to read as follows: "Section 13-28. Compensation; Salary Commission. (a) The salary of all county elected officials and appointed directors and deputy directors of departments and executive agencies shall be established by a salary commission which shall consist of nine members appointed by the mayor with the approval of the council, in the manner prescribed in Section 13-4(b). The members may be removed in the manner prescribed in Section 13-4(b). (b) One member shall be a resident of each council district. In addition,the director of human resources and deputy director of human resources shall serve as ex-officio members of the commission in an advisory capacity. (c) The commission shall establish its rules of procedure, which shall provide that it meet at least annually, and adopt rules and regulations having the force and effect of law. (d) The commission shall review and compensate all county elected officials and appointed directors and deputy directors so that their total salaries and benefits have a reasonable relationship to compensation in the public and private sectors. The salary commission shall consult with those boards and commissions which have appointing authority for department heads. (e) At least thirty days prior to the approval of any salary adjustment, the salary commission shall: (1) Publish at least once in at least two daily newspapers of general circulation in the county a detailed account of its proposal, or proposals, including specific increases or decreases in both actual dollar amounts and percentages; (2) Hold at least one public hearing in either east Hawai`i or west Hawai`i,provided that any public hearing shall be conducted using video conference technology to allow for public participation from both east and west Hawai`i; and (3) Submit copies of a detailed report of the commission's findings and conclusions used to develop its proposal, or proposals, to the office of the county clerk and the office of the mayor for public inspection. The public notice required pursuant to this subsection shall include notification that the report of the commission's findings and conclusions is available for public inspection at the aforementioned locations. . ATT. B (f) Any adjustment that increases or decreases any salary by more than ten percent shall require an affirmative vote of two-thirds of the entire membership of the salary commission." SECTION 2. New charter material is underscored. When revising, compiling, or printing these charter provisions for inclusion in the Charter of the County of Hawai`i, the reviser need not include the underscoring. SECTION 3. If any provision of this ordinance, or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid, such invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications of the ordinance, which can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to this end,the provisions of this ordinance are severable. SECTION 4. Upon adoption of this ordinance, this council, by appropriate resolution, shall provide that this amendment be submitted to the electorate of Hawai`i County for approval in the 2018 general election. SECTION 5. The charter amendment proposed in this ordinance shall take effect upon its approval by a majority of voters voting on this legislation in the 2018 general election, as duly certified. INODUCED BY: Aff gasp kli"` • i .11 CIL MEMBER, CO .s AWAI`I , Hawai`i Date of Introduction: Date of 1St Reading: Date of 2nd Reading: Date of 3rd Reading: Effective Date: 712.2 REFERENCE Comm. 2 SALARY COMMISSION • COUNTY OF HAWAII TITLE III - RULES OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII SALARY COMMISSION TABLE OF CONTENTS Chapter 200 GENERAL APPLICABILITY PAGE NO. §200-1 Authority 200-1 §200-2 Construction of rules 200-1 §200-3 Procedure and terms 200-1 §200-4 Definitions 200-1 §200-5 The Commission 200-2 §200-6 Delegation of administrative duties 200-4 §200-7 Public records 200-5 Chapter 201 PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE AGENCY S §201-1 General 201-1 §201-2 Appearances and practices before the agency 201-1 §201-3 Disqualification of Commission member or hearing officer 201-2 §201-4 Consolidation 201-2 §201-5 Retention of documents 201-2 §201-6 Commission decision 201-2 Chapter 202 RULES APPLICABLE TO RULEMAKING PROCEDURES §202-1 Initiation of rulemaking proceedings 202-1 §202-2 Notice of public hearing 202-2 §202-3 Conduct of hearing 202-2 §202-4 Commission action 202-3 §202-5 Emergency rule making 202-3 §202-6 Filing of rules 202-3 §202-7 Taking effect of rules 202-3 §202-8 Publication of rules 202-3 Chapter 203 RULES APPLICABLE TO DECLARATORY RULINGS • §203-1 Petitions for declaratory rulings 203-1 ATT. C PAGE NO. 0 §203-2 Request for hearing 203-1 §203-3 Applicability of order 203-2 §203-4 Declaratory ruling on Commission's own motion 203-2 §203-5 Refusal to issue declaratory order 203-2 • SALARY COMMISSION S TITLE III - RULES OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII SALARY COMMISSION CHAPTER 200 GENERAL APPLICABILITY §200-1 Authority §200-2 Construction of rules §200-3 Procedure and terms §200-4 Definitions §200-5 The Commission §200-6 Delegation of administrative duties §200-7 Public records §200-1 Authority. These rules govern practice and procedure before the Salary Commission of the County of Hawaii under County Charter, and Hawaii Revised Statutes, Chapters 91 and 92. [Eff. 10-20-02] §200-2 Construction of rules. The rules shall be liberally construed as to secure the just, speedy, and inexpensive determination of every proceeding. [Eff. 10-20-02] • §200-3 Procedure and terms. (a) Statutory terms. The terms used in rules promulgated by the Commission pursuant to powers granted by statute shall have the meaning defined by such statute, unless the context otherwise specifically requires. (b) Terms defined by rule. A rule or regulation that defines a term without express reference to the statute or to these rules or to a portion thereof, defines such terms for all purposes as used both in the statute and in these rules, unless the context otherwise specifically requires. (c) Use of number and gender. Words importing the singular number may extend and be applied to several persons or things;words importing the plural may include the singular;and words importing the masculine gender may be applied to females. [Eff. 10-20-02] §200-4 Definitions. (a) Agency. The term"Agency"means each county board, Commission, department, or officer, except those in the legislative branch. (b) Chairperson. The term"Chairperson" means the Chairperson of the Commission. (c) Commission. The term"Commission"means the Hawai'i County Salary Commission. (d) Council. The term"Council" means the County Council of the County of Hawai'i. (e) Hearing. The term"Hearing" means any proceeding governed by the Commission. • (f) Meeting. The term"Meeting" means the convening of the Commission for which a quorum is required in order to make a decision or to deliberate toward a 200-1 decision upon a matter over which the Commission has supervision, control,jurisdiction, • or advisory power. (g) Party. The term"Party"means each person or agency named or admitted as a party or properly seeking and entitled as of right to be admitted as a party in a proceeding. (h) Person. The term"Person"includes individuals, partnerships, corporations, associations, or public or private organizations of any character other than governmental agencies. (1) Presiding officer. The term "Presiding officer, "with respect to proceedings, means the Chairperson, and includes any member of the Commission designated as such, or such other persons authorized by law to conduct hearings. (i) Proceedings. The term"Proceedings"means the Commission's elucidation of the relevant facts and applicable law, consideration thereof, and action thereupon with respect to a particular subject within the Commission's jurisdiction, initiated by a filing or submittal or request or a Commission's notice or order. It shall include proceedings involving the adoption, amendment, or repeal of any rule or regulation of the Agency, whether initiated by Commission order or notice, or by petition of an interested person. [Eff. 10-20-021 §200-5 The Commission. (a) Office. The office of the Commission is at Hilo, Hawaii. All communications to the Commission shall be addressed to the Hawai'i County Salary Commission, c/o The Director of Personnel, County of Hawaii Aupuni Center, 101 Pauahi Street, Suite 2, Hilo, Hawaii 96720, unless otherwise specifically • directed. (b) Meetings. The Commission shall meet in the Councilroom, Hawaii County Building, or such other public place as the Commission may designate. (1) Open meetings. All meetings of the Commission, except executive meetings, shall be open to the public. (2) Executive meetings. The Commission may hold an executive meeting, closed to the public, upon an affirmative vote, taken at an open meeting, of two-thirds of the members present or by a majority of the members to which the Commission is entitled, whichever is greater. The vote of each member on the question of holding a meeting closed to the public and the reason for holding such a meeting shall be recorded and entered into the minutes of the meeting. A meeting closed to the public may be held only for one or more of the following purposes: (A) To consult with the Commission's attorney; (B) For any other specific purpose hereafter authorized by law. (3) Chance meetings. The rules governing meetings shall not apply to any chance meeting, as defined by Hawaii Revised Statutes, Section 92-2, at which matters relating to official business are not discussed. No chance meeting or electronic communication shall be used to circumvent the spirit or requirements of the meetings provisions to make a decision or to deliberate toward a decision upon a matter over which the Commission has supervision, control,jurisdiction, or advisory power. (4) Regular meetings. Regular or general meetings will be held on the 2nd • and 4th Wednesdays of each month, unless otherwise specified. 200-2 (5) Special meetings. Special meetings of the Commission for the transaction • of its business may be held at any time and place as scheduled by the Commission upon publication of notice of such special meeting in two newspapers of general circulation within the County at least twenty-four hours prior to the meetings. (6) Emergency meetings. If the Commission finds that an imminent peril to the public health, safety, or welfare requires a meeting in less time than is provided for in Rule 200-5 b(7), the Commission may hold art emergency meeting, provided: (A) the Commission states in writing the reasons for its findings; (B) two-thirds of all members to which the Commission is entitled agree that an emergency exists; (C) an emergency agenda and the findings are filed with the Office of the County Clerk and in the Commission's office; and (D) persons requesting notification pursuant to Rule 200-5 b(7) are contacted by mail or telephone as soon as practicable. (7) Notice. (A) The Commission shall give written public notice of any regular, special, or rescheduled meeting. The notice shall include an agenda which lists all of the items to be considered at the forthcoming meeting, the date, time, and place of the meeting. (B) The Commission shall file the notice in the Office of the County Clerk and in the Commission's office for public inspection at least six days before the meeting. The notice shall also be posted at the site of the meeting whenever feasible. The Commission shall not add items to the agenda, once filed, without a two-thirds recorded vote of all members to which the Commission is entitled; provided that no item shall be added to the agenda in the manner provided herein, if it is of reasonably major importance and action thereon by the Commission will affect a significant number of persons. (C) The Commission shall maintain a list of names and addresses of persons who request notification of meetings and shall mail a copy of the notice to such persons at their last recorded address no later than the time the agenda is filed under subsection (b). (8) Construction. The provisions requiring open meetings shall be liberally construed and the provisions providing for exceptions to open meeting requirements shall be strictly construed against closed meetings. (c) Hearings. AU parties shall be afforded an opportunity for hearing after reasonable notice. The notice shall include a statement of: (1) The date, time, place, and nature of the hearing; (2) The legal authority under which the hearing is to be held; (3) The particular sections of the statutes and rules involved; (4) An explicit statement in plain language of the issues involved and the facts alleged by the Commission in support thereof; provided, that if the Commission is unable to state such issues and facts in detail at the time the notice is served, the initial notice may be limited to a statement of the issues involved; and (5) The fact that any party may retain counsel if he so desires. 200-3 (d) Quorum and number of votes necessary to validate acts. A majority of all members to which the Commission is entitled shall constitute a quorum to transact business, and the concurrence of a majority of all members to which the Commission is entitled shall be necessary to make valid any action of the Commission. (e) Minutes. The Commission shall keep written minutes of all meetings. Unless otherwise required by law, neither a full transcript nor a recording of the meeting is required, but the written minutes shall give a true reflection of the matters discussed and the views of the participants. The minutes shall include, but need not be limited to: (1) The date, time, and place of the meeting; (2) The members of the Commission recorded as either present or absent; (3) The substance of all matters proposed, discussed, or decided; and a record, by individual member, of any votes taken; and (4) Any other information that any member of the Commission requests be included or reflected in the minutes. The minutes shall be public records and shall be available within thirty days after the meeting except where such disclosure would be inconsistent with Hawaii Revised Statutes, Section 92-5, or Section 13-20, Hawai'i County Charter; provided that minutes of executive meetings may be withheld so long as their publication would defeat the lawful purpose of the executive meeting, but no longer. (f) Administration. (1) Chairperson. The Chairperson of the Commission shall be responsible for the administration functions of the Commission. • (2) Authentication of the Commission action. All decisions, orders, and other actions of the Commission shall be authenticated or signed by the Chairperson, or upon delegation by the Chairperson by any other member of the Commission. Official copies of decisions, orders, and other Commission actions may be promulgated under the signature of the Chairperson of the Commission or his delegation. (g) Submittals and requests. All documents required to be filed with the Commission shall be filed in the office of the Commission within such time limits as prescribed by laws, rules of the Commission, or orders of the Commission. Requests for public information, copies of official documents, or opportunity to inspect public records may be made in writing to the Commission's office or in person at said office. (h) Parliamentary practice. The rules of parliamentary authority, where not inconsistent with the rules adopted by the Commission, shall be Robert's Rules of Order Revised. [Eff. 10-20-02] §200-6 Delegation of administrative duties. (a) General. The Commission may delegate to any competent and qualified individual such power or authority vested in the Commission as it deems reasonable and proper for the effective administration of the Commission except the power to make, amend, or repeal rules and regulations. (b) Hearing officer. The Commission may, by written resolution adopted by a majority of the members to which it is entitled, appoint a competent and qualified disinterested person to act as its hearing officer. The hearing officer shall hear the • matter in the same manner as if it were before the Commission and, upon the conclusion of the hearing, shall transmit to the Commission a record of the hearing, 200-4 including a recording or transcript and a summary of evidence taken at said hearing. • After review of the testimony and evidence, a majority of the members to which the Commission is entitled shall render a decision in accordance with Hawai'i Revised Statutes, Section 91-11. [Eft. 10-20-02] §200-7 Public records. (a) Files of the Commission. The term"Public Records"as used in this part is defined as in Hawai'i Revised Statutes, Section 92-50, and shall include all rules,regulations, written statements of policy or interpretations formulated, adopted, or used by the Commission, all complaints, opinions and orders,written testimony, minutes of meetings of the Commission, and any other material on file in the office of the Commission unless accorded confidential treatment pursuant to law or the rules of the Commission. (b) Inspection of public records. All public records will be available for inspection in the office of the Commission, Hilo, Hawai'i, during established office hours unless public inspection of such records is in violation of any State or Federal law; provided that, except where such records are open under any rule of court, the Corporation Counsel may determine which records may be withheld from public inspection when such records pertain to the preparation of the prosecution or defense of any action or proceeding to which the Commission, the State, or any governmental agency or subdivision is or may be a party, or when such records do not relate to a matter in violation of law and are deemed necessary for the protection of the character or reputation of any person. (c) Copies of public records. Public records printed or reproduced by the • Commission shall be given to any person requesting the same and paying the fees established by the Commission or by law. (d) Requests. Requests for public information, for permission to inspect public records, or for copies of public records shall be handled expeditiously. Any material with respect to the Commission will not be released without the approval of the Chairperson or his delegate. (e) Denial of inspection. Any person denied the right to public information, to inspect public records, or to copies of public records may apply to the circuit court of the circuit wherein the public record is found for an order permitting the right to public information, to inspect public records, or to copies of public records. [Eff. 10-20-02] • 200-5 SALARY COMMISSION S TITLE III-RULES OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII SALARY COMMISSION CHAPTER 201 PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE AGENCY §201-1 General §201-2 Appearances and practices before the agency §201-3 Disqualification of Commission member or hearing officer §201-4 Consolidation §201-5 Retention of documents §201-6 Commission decision §201-1 General. The Commission may, on its own motion or upon the petition of any interested person or agency of the Federal, State, or County government, hold such proceedings as it may deem necessary in the performance of its duties or the formulation of its rules and regulations. Procedures to be followed by the Commission shall, unless specifically prescribed in these Rules or by the Hawai'i Administrative Procedure Act or by any other statute, be such as in the opinion of the Commission will best serve the purpose of such proceeding. [Eff. 10-20-02] §201-2 Appearances and practices before the agency. (a) Representation. In any proceeding under these rules, any party may be represented by counsel or any other person to whom the party has given written or verbal authority. (b) Validation of authority. When an individual acting in a representative capacity appears in person or signs a paper in practice before the Commission, that person's personal appearance or signature shall constitute a representation to the Commission that, under the provisions of these rules and the law, the person is authorized and qualified to represent the particular person on whose behalf the representative acts. The Commission may at any time require any person transacting business with the Commission in a representative capacity to show that person's authority and qualification to act in such a capacity. (c) Bar to appearance. (1) Former Commission association. No individual who has been associated with the Commission as a member, officer, employee, or counsel shall be permitted to appear before the Commission on behalf of or to represent in any manner any party in connection with any proceeding or matter that such individual has handled or passed upon while associated in any capacity with the Commission. (2) Limitations of assistance from barred persons. No person or agency appearing before the Commission in any proceeding or matter shall, in relation thereto, knowingly accept assistance from and compensate any • individual who would be barred by Rule 201-2(c). 201-1 (3) Written consent to appear. No person who has been associated with the • Commission as a member, officer, employee, or counsel thereof shall be permitted to appear before the Commission on behalf of, or to represent in any manner, any person, agency, or the Council in connection with any proceeding or matter that was pending before the Commission at the time of that person's association, unless the person shall first have obtained the written consent of the Commission, upon a verified showing that the person did not give personal consideration to the matter or proceeding as to which consent is sought or gain particular knowledge of the facts thereof during the person's association with the Commission. (4) One year limitation. This subsection shall not apply to any individual or agency whose association with the Commission has been terminated for a period of one year. [Eff. 10-20-02] §201-3 Disqualification of Commission member or hearing officer. Any party to a hearing may, up to five days before the proceeding, file an affidavit that one or more of the members or a hearing officer has a personal bias or prejudice. The member against whom the affidavit is so filed may answer the affidavit or may file a disqualifying certificate with the Commission. If the member or hearing officer chooses to answer the affidavit, the remaining members shall decide by a majority of all the members to which the Commission is entitled whether that member or hearing officer should be disqualified from proceeding therein. Every such affidavit shall state the facts and reasons for the belief that bias or prejudice exists and shall be filed at least five days • before the hearing, or good cause shall be shown for the failure to file it within such time. Any Commission member or hearing officer may disqualify himself by filing with the Chairperson a certificate that he deems himself unable for any reason to preside with impartiality in the pending hearing. [Eff. 10-20-02] §201-4 Consolidation. The Commission, upon its own initiative or upon motion, may consolidate for hearing or for other purposes or may contemporaneously consider two or more proceedings that involve substantially the same parties, or issues that are the same or closely related, if it finds that such consolidation or contemporaneous hearing will be conducive to the proper dispatch of its business and to the ends of justice and will not unduly delay the proceedings. [Eff. 10-20-02] §201-5 Retention of documents. All documents filed with or presented to the Commission shall be retained in the files of the Commission. The Commission may permit the withdrawal of original documents upon submission of properly authenticated copies to replace such documents. [Eff. 10-20-02] §201-6 Commission decision. All final orders, opinions, or rulings entered by the Commission in the proceeding and rules promulgated by the Commission shall be served upon the parties participating in the proceeding by regular mail or personal delivery by the Commission. Copies of such material shall be available for public inspection in the office of the Commission or may be obtained upon request and upon payment of reasonable fees, if any. [Eff. 10-20-02] • 201-2 SALARY COMMISSION • TITLE III-RULES OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAI'I SALARY COMMISSION CHAPTER 202 RULES APPLICABLE TO RULEMAKING PROCEDURES §202-1 Initiation of rulemaking proceedings §202-2 Notice of public hearing §202-3 Conduct of hearing §202-4 Commission action §202-5 Emergency rule making §202-6 Filing of rules §202-7 Taking effect of rules §202-8 Publication of rules §202-1 Initiation of rulemaking proceedings. (a) Motion by Commission. The Commission may, at any time on its own motion, initiate proceedings for the adoption, amendment, or repeal of any rule of the Commission. Procedures to be followed in rulemaking shall be as set forth herein and the applicable statutes. (b) Petition by person or agency. Any interested person or agency may • petition the Commission for the adoption, amendment, or repeal of any rule of the Commission. Petitions for rulemaking filed with the Commission will become matters of public record. (1) Form and content. Petition for rulemaking shall contain the name, address, and telephone number of each petitioner; the signature of each petitioner; a draft or the substance of the proposed rule or amendment or a designation of the provisions, the repeal of which is desired; a statement of the petitioner's interest in the subject matter; and a statement of the reasons in support of the proposed rule, amendment, or repeal. (2) Commission action. The Commission shall,within thirty days after the filing of a petition for rulemaking, either deny the petition or initiate public rulemaking proceedings. (1) Denial of petition. Any petition that fails in material respect to comply with the requirements herein or that fails to disclose sufficient reasons to justify the institution of rulemaking proceedings will not be considered by the Commission. The Commission shall notify the petitioner in writing of such denial, stating the reasons therefor. Denial of a petition shall not operate to prevent the Commission from acting, on its own motion, on any matter disclosed in the petition. Petitioner may seek a review of said denial through the circuit court pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act and applicable rules of court and statutes. (2) Acceptance of petition. If the Commission determines that,the petition is in order and that it discloses sufficient reasons in support of the proposed • rulemaking to justify the institution of rulemaking proceedings, the 202-1 procedures to be followed shall be as set forth in Rules 202-3 through 202-8 • herein and the applicable statutes. [Eff. 10-20-02] §202-2 Notice of public hearing. (a) Publication and mailing. When, pursuant to a petition therefor or upon its own motion, the Commission proposes to adopt, amend, or repeal a rule or regulation, a notice of proposed rule making shall be published at least once in at least two newspapers of general circulation in the County and such notice shall also be mailed to all persons or agencies who have made timely written requests for advance notice of the Commission's rule making proceedings. All such notices shall be published at least thirty days prior to the date set for the public hearing. (b) Form. A notice of the proposed adoption, amendment, or repeal of a rule or regulation shall include: (1) a statement of the date,time, and place where the public hearing will be held; (2) reference to the authority under which the adoption, amendment, or repeal of a rule or regulation is proposed; (3) a statement of the substance of the proposed rule. [Eff. 10-20-02] §202-3 Conduct of hearing. (a) Presiding officer. The public hearing for the adoption, amendment, or repeal of rules and regulations shall be heard before the Commission and presided over by the Chairperson of the Commission or in his absence, by another member designated by the Commission. The hearing shall be conducted in • such a way as to afford to interested persons and agencies a reasonable opportunity to offer testimony with respect to the matters specified in the notice of hearing and so as to obtain a clear and orderly record. The presiding officer shall have authority to administer oaths or affirmations and to take all other actions necessary to the orderly conduct of the hearing. (b) Continuance of hearing. Each such hearing shall be held at the time and place set in the notice of hearing but may at such time and place be continued by the presiding officer from day to day or to a later date or to a different place without notice other than the announcement thereof at the hearing. (c) Order of proceeding. At the commencement of the hearing, the presiding officer shall read the notice of hearing and shall then outline briefly the procedure to be followed. Testimony shall then be received with respect to the matters specified in the notice of hearing in such order as the presiding officer shall prescribe. (d) Submission of testimony. Each witness shall, before proceeding to testify, state his name, address, and whom he represents at the hearing, and shall give such information respecting his appearance as the presiding officer may request. The presiding officer shall confine the testimony to the matters for which the hearing has been called but shall not apply the technical rules of evidence. Every witness shall be subject to questioning by the members of the Commission or by any other representative of the Commission. (e) Oral and written presentation. All interested persons or agencies will be afforded an opportunity to submit data, views, or arguments, orally or in writing, that are relevant to the matters specified in the notice of hearing. The period for filing • written comments or recommendations may be extended beyond the hearing date by 202-2 the presiding officer for good cause. An original and nine copies are requested when IP submitting written comments, recommendations, or replies. (f) Transcript of the evidence. Unless otherwise specifically ordered by the Commission, testimony given at the public hearing shall not be reported verbatim. All supporting written statements, maps, charts, tabulations, or similar data offered in evidence at the hearing, and which are deemed by the presiding officer to be authentic and relevant, shall be received in evidence and made a part of the record. [Eff. 10-20-02] §202-4 Commission action. The Commission will consider all relevant comments and materials of record before taking final action in a rulemaking proceeding. Final action shall be taken within sixty days after the final public hearing, or the expiration of any extension period for submission of written comments or recommendations. [Eff. 10-20-02] §202-5 Emergency rule making. Notwithstanding the foregoing rules, if the Commission finds that an imminent peril to public health or safety requires adoption, amendment, or repeal of a rule or regulation upon less than thirty days' notice of hearing, and states in writing its reasons for such finding, it may proceed without prior notice of hearing or upon such abbreviated notice and hearing as it finds practicable to adopt an emergency rule or regulation. The Commission shall make an emergency rule known to persons who will be affected by it by publication in at least two newspapers of general circulation in the County. [Eff. 10-20-02] • §202-6 Filing of rules. The Commission, upon adopting, amending, or repealing a rule and approval by the Mayor, shall file certified copies thereof with the County Clerk. [Eff. 10-20-02] §202-7 Taking effect of rules. Each rule adopted, amended, or repealed shall become effective ten days after filing with the County Clerk. If a later effective date is required by statute or specified in rule, the later date shall be the effective date; provided that no rule shall specify an effective date in excess of thirty days after the filing of the rule with the County Clerk. An emergency rule shall become effective upon filing with the County Clerk for a period not exceeding one-hundred twenty days without renewal unless extended in compliance with the provisions of subdivisions (1) and (2) of Hawaii Revised Statutes, Section 91-3(a). [Eff. 10-20-02] §202-8 Publication of rules. The Commission shall, as soon as practicable, compile, index, and publish all rules adopted by the Commission and remaining in effect. Compilations shall be supplemented as often as necessary and shall be revised at least once every ten years. [Eff. 10-20-02] • 202-3 SALARY COMMISSION S TITLE III-RULES OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII SALARY COMMISSION CHAPTER 203 RULES APPLICABLE TO DECLARATORY RULINGS §203-1 Petitions for declaratory rulings §203-2 Request for hearing §203-3 Applicability of order §203-4 Declaratory ruling on Commission's own motion §203-5 Refusal to issue declaratory order §203-1 Petitions for declaratory rulings. On petition of an interested person or agency, the Commission may issue a declaratory order as to the applicability of any statutory provision, ordinance, or of any rule or regulation or order of the Commission. (a) Form and contents. The petition shall contain the name, address, and telephone number of each petitioner; the signature of each petitioner; a designation of the specific provision, rule, or order in question, together with a statement of the controversy or uncertainty involved; a statement of the petitioner's interest in the S subject matter, including the reasons for submission of the petition; a statement of the petitioner's position or contention; and a memorandum of authorities, containing a full discussion of reasons and legal authorities, in support of such position or contention. (b) Commission action. Within sixty days after the submission of a petition for declaratory ruling, the Commission shall either deny the petition in writing, stating the reasons for such denial or issue a declaratory order on the matters contained in the petition, or set the matter for hearing, as provided in 203-2; provided, however, that if the matter is set for hearing, the Commission shall render its findings and decisions within sixty days after the close of the hearing. (c) Dismissal of petition. The Commission may, without notice or hearing, dismiss a petition for declaratory ruling that fails in material respect to comply with the requirements of this part. [Eff. 10-20-02] §203-2 Reauest for hearing. Although in the usual course of disposition of a petition for a declaratory ruling no formal hearing will be granted to the petitioner or to a party in interest, the Commission may in its discretion order such proceeding set down for hearing. Any petitioner or party in interest who desires a hearing on a petition for a declaratory ruling shall set forth in detail in his request the reasons why the matters alleged in the petition, together with supporting affidavits or other written evidence and briefs or memoranda of legal authorities,will not permit the fair and expeditious disposition of the petition and, to the extent that such request for a hearing is dependent upon factual assertion, shall accompany such request by affidavit establishing such facts. In the event a hearing is ordered by the Commission, Hawaii • Revised Statutes,Section 91-9, shall govern the proceedings. [Eff. 10-20-02] 203-1 §203-3 Applicability of order. An order disposing of a petition shall be applicable only to the factual situation described in the petition or set forth in the order. [Eff. 10-20-02] §203-4 Declaratory ruling on Commission's own motion. Notwithstanding the other provisions of this part, the Commission may, on its own motion or upon request but without notice of hearing, issue a declaratory order to terminate a controversy or to remove uncertainty. [Eff. 10-20-02] §203-5 Refusal to issue declaratory order. The Commission may, for good cause, refuse to issue a declaratory order with specific reasons for such determination. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, the Commission may so refuse where: (a) the question is speculative or purely hypothetical and does not involve existing facts, or facts that can be expected to exist in the near future; (b) the petitioner's interest is not of the type that would give him standing to maintain an action if he were to seek judicial relief; (c) the issuance of the declaratory order may affect the interests of the Commission in a litigation that is pending or may reasonably be expected to arise; or (d) the matter is not within the jurisdiction of the Commission. [Eff. 10-20-02] • 203-2