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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMIN CHC 1989-01-11 t'. 1 f liNa err • Hawaii County Charter Commission • MINUTES First Session January 11, 1989 at 1:00 p.m. Liquor Control Conference Room Hilo Lagoon Centre 101 Aupuni Street Hilo, Hawaii The first session of the Hawaii County Charter Commission began with opening remarks from Mayor Bernard K. Akana followed by the swearing in ceremony of the new members. All members were in attendance for the swearing in ceremony with the exception of Sherwood Greenwell who was detained at a previous meeting and arrived later. Before the meeting was called to order, each member signed his Oath of Loyalty card which was then notarized by Karolyn Nagao, Recording Secretary Pro Tem. Applications and financial disclosures were collected, parking permits were assigned and handouts were given out. CALL TO ORDER: The Hawaii County Charter Commission meeting was called to order at 1:20 p.m. in the Liquor Control Conference Room located in the Hilo Lagoon Centre at 101 Aupuni Street, Hilo, • Hawaii, by Mr. Robert Bethea, Chairman Pro Tem. ROLL CALL: The roll recorded the following: PRESENT: Mr. Robert Bethea Ms. Francine Duncan Dr. James 0. Juvik Mr. Pete L'Orange Mr. David Fuertes Ms. Pamela Cushnie Ms. Aileen" Lum Mr. Steven Nishikawa Ms. Patricia Poppe Mr. Akira Omonaka Mr. Sherwood Greenwell GUESTS: Mayor Bernard K. Akana Managing Director Susan Labrenz Councilwoman Helene Hale Councilman Bob Makuakane Corporation Counsel Fred Giannini Janice A. Bibb, Director of Liquor Control Larry Kadooka, Tribune-Herald Photographer Hugh Clark, West Hawaii Today • 1 David Smith, Tribune-Herald • Gordon Pang, West Hawaii Today Cheryl Blyth, County Council Staff Nelson Ho Sam Page Jack Smoot Jerry Rothstein INTRODUCTORY Chairman Pro Tem Robert Bethea presented a "County REMARKS: Charter Commission - 1989 Proposed Work Plan" which he had drafted over the weekend for the members to review. He then turned the meeting over to Corporation Counsel Fred Giannini who presented to the members an overview of the Sunshine Law. SUNSHINE LAW: FRED GIANNINI: Basically, when asked to address the situation of open meetings in the Sunshine Law and the things that that entails--what I prepared was the way in which both the Sunshine Law, which is the common name for Chapter 92 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, and also the records and open meetings section of the Hawaii County Charter, which is Article XIII, Section 13-20, relate to the way in which meetings are to be conducted by state and county boards and agencies. I have included with this handout (Open Meetings and the Charter Commission) that I have given you, a short, approximately 3-1/2 page essay that covers what I am going to 111 explain to you and also it includes as Exhibit A which is a reproduction of Chapter 92 and Exhibit B which is a reproduction of Section 13-20 Records and Meetings Open to the Public. Basically, when they talk about the Sunshine Law and open meetings, the purpose of both the state legislation and the County Charter provision is to insure that as much as possible will be done in public in an open meeting setting. The purpose is not to have the deliberation and the taking of testimony and the decision making and agreements made by members of state and county boards and commissions--have as little as possible of that done behind closed doors or in secret. As I've stated in this opinon, the policy and intent is declared in Chapter 92-1 of the Sunshine Law which basically states that government agencies exist to aid the people in the formation and conduct of public policy. Opening up the governmental processes to public scrutiny and participation is the only viable and reasonable method of protecting the public's interest. Therefore, the Legislature declares that it is the policy of this state that the formation and conduct of public policy--the discussions, deliberations, decisions, and action of governmental agencies--shall be conducted as openly as possible. To implement this policy the Legislature • 2 declares that: (1) it is the intent of this part to protect • the people's right to know; (2) the provisions requiring open meetings shall be liberally construed; and (3) the provisions providing for exceptions to the open meeting requirements shall be strictly construed against closed meetings. The definitions are fairly straightforward in this, and you will see from these definitions under the state law that these open meeting provisions apply to this Charter Commission. It states, as used in this part, "board" means any agency, board, commission, authority, or committee of the State or its political subdivisions which is created by constitution, statute, rule, or executive order, to have supervision, control, jurisdiction or advisory power over specific matters and which is required to conduct meetings and to take official actions. There was a specific attorney general's opinion which stated that even though boards created by charter such as this one are not specifically mentioned that all boards and commissions created by the charters of the various counties would be included under the state Sunshine Law. Clearly, this is a commission which has been given supervision, control, jurisdiction, or advisory power over specific matters and which is required to conduct meetings and take official actions. Under the charter, the definition of the "Charter Commission," under the part of the mandatory review provision, requires this commission to hold meetings and to deliberate and suggest amendments or changes • in the charter that will be passed on eventually to the public through the election process. Further, a "meeting" is defined as the convening of a board for which a quorum is required in order to make a decision or to deliberate toward a decision upon a matter over which the board has supervision, control, jurisdiction, or advisory power. That is part of the Sunshine Law and, therefore, any time you hold a meeting which is to take testimony on possible changes to the charter or to make a decision on whether or not you wish to propose a change to the charter, all of those meetings must be held in public because they are meetings which fall under the definition of meetings under the state Sunshine Law. ROBERT BETHEA: All meetings where you are making a decision? FRED GIANNINI: No, it's all meetings where you are taking testimony or you are deliberating. So, what this is to prevent is, for example, if you had a board or a commission in which there were factions and maybe one faction was made up of 8 people or 9 people and another faction was made up of you know the remainder; and so then if there were some controversial amendement proposed to prevent maybe that majority of people from going off in secret, holding a secret S3 meeting, wording what they wanted to and saying okay this is • what we're gonna to do and we're gonna vote on this without letting either the public or the rest of the commission know about it, that's what these things are intended to prevent. They want to make sure that an important part of deliberation for any board, legislative or a commission such as this, is the information you take--the testimony you take upon which you base your decision. So they want all of this; all of the testimony should be taken in public in the open and the deliberation and the discussion done also in public. There are, now, there is a section which you will note in here under the Sunshine Law which lists exceptions, 92-5; now these are exceptions under the state Sunshine Law but you must be careful about this because as I've explained that, later on in part two of this, the County Charter's open meeting section. There are exceptions listed here for when the board may hold a meeting closed to the public for following purposes and it lists about six of these. Now, this is further restricted by the County Charter; there is a further provision here which I cite in the state Sunshine Law which states that under Section 92-71 the state Sunshine Law provides standards for open meetings but the County Charter(s) may restrict those even more and require even more openness than the minimum standards set by the state Sunshine Law and the Hawaii County Charter in fact does this. As I've reproduced Section 13-20, this states subsection (b) : All • meetings of the council, boards and commissions shall be held in the council meeting room or other public places and no such bodies shall take any official action except at a meeting open to the public. Now it says where personal matters affecting the privacy of an individual are to be considered, the council, board or commission may, at the request of the individual involved, consider such matters in closed session; however, any official action resulting therefrom shall be acted upon in a open meeting. Boards and commissions that are empowered to give examinations to determine the capabilities of individuals shall be excepted from the provisions of this section when technical examinations and questionnaires are being drafted by such bodies. The term "official action" as used in this section means a collective decision made by a majority of the members of the council, board or commission, or an actual vote by a majority of the members of the council, board or commission, when sitting as a body or an entity, upon any matter before the council, board or commission. ROBERT BETHEA: Fred, let me interrupt you with another question. I assumed or let me ask you, do you have any objections if the commission members interrupt and ask any particular questions? • 4 1 FRED GIANNINI: No, that would be okay. It might be easier • though when I finish except for this question; if when I finish, then just direct all the questions. ROBERT BETHEA: Oh well, maybe let's do that then because I get specific questions. People come up and say something to us saying you know what I think about this, etc. I don't think I don't know whether you are required to turn them off; obviously you can invite them to come testify during meetings that are open for public testimony but every one of us knows a ton of people in the community here who are going to come up and say, you know, I think they only need to have three people on the (pause) you are not supposed to be unreceptive to that or are you? FRED GIANNINI: No, I don't see that again as you say you should. You could advise those people; probably the easiest thing would be to say is why don't you come just come to the next meeting.. . ROBERT BETHEA: Can you discuss. .. FRED GIANNINI: ...or, write a letter. I would say discuss it but again it would probably be not wise to and none of you would probably do this to make some kind of commitment to somebody and say, oh yes, I'm definitely gonna vote that way • or something. I would say listen to them and suggest that they write or come to the meeting and tell them you know; just sorta hear them out and not make promises or deals one way or another. ROBERT BETHEA: Alright, I don't think people would do that. But let me just ask everybody then that when Fred is finished to start thinking of the common sense sort of questions that you might want to put to him. For example discussions among ourselves where you think somebody might have a feel that some commission member would have feeling for a problem whatever occurs to us. I think now is the time to try to get some of these questions answered. I don't have any feel for it instinctively. FRED GIANNINI: Okay. The remainder of the county's charter position is very limited in essentially all that you can close a meeting for under the county charter really is situations in which there are a personal matter in which a board or county counsel or something discusses with a particular individual who requests that it be closed. These are often done in situations of hirings and firings and removal from office or something like that, and it's always • 5 under the charter it must be done at the request of the S person rather than the council or the board. That sort of situation I really cannot see except for maybe in the situation in which you are hiring staff or something that any sort of question like that would come up with relation to this Charter Commission. The other thing that is mentioned in the county charter is the giving of examinations, again something that's not going to come up, or formulating of examinations that's not going to come up with this commission. So therefore what you have under the county charter is that anytime any meeting that you hold must be open to the public. Anytime that you receive testimony anytime you deliberate, discuss amendments as a quorum, that must be open to the public. There is one other thing. I forgot to note it specifically in here but there is a section in this law in which it says it which there is a section on casual meetings. ROBERT BETHEA: Is that casual meetings among commission members? FRED GIANNINI: Yes, that would be casual meetings among commission members. (pause) Oh, a chance meeting. A "chance meeting" means a social or informal assemblage of two or more members at which matters relating to official business are not discussed. Any sort of chance meeting--if you have a chance meeting between a few of you say outside it would be wise to not discuss official business you know the things about when the meeting is gonna be held, where it's gonna be held, how you're gonna get to the meeting things like that are okay but to discuss the substantive aspects of whether you think these things have merit or not it probably would not be good to discuss those, it would not be proper to discuss those. Deliberation... ROBERT BETHEA You say probably... FRED GIANNINI: Well, it would be advisable not to. You shouldn't do it. You should not discuss the substance of a meeting. (laughter) PAMELA CUSHNIE: Mr. Giannini, I can remember being specifically cautioned before a public hearing that council members were not to convene. Could we later on today have an update on our public hearings and (inaudible) convening of members or discussion before and afterwards amongst members of the Charter Commission? FRED GIANNINI: Yes, it would be best to follow the same practices that the county council would do because you're both under the, sorta of, you're both subject to the state • . 6 L -- Sunshine Law and the County Charter's open meeting S provision. So what the county council does would be a very good guide to follow. (laughter) PETE L'ORANGE: We can convene? (laughter) FRED GIANNINI: No, I mean not convene. FRANCINE DUNCAN: You feel the same rules apply, the general convening? FRED GIANNINI: The Sunshine Law and the county open meeting provision both apply equally to the county council, the charter commission, and all of the other boards of the county such as the Liquor Commission, the Planning Commission and all of them. When in doubt as far as the open meetings, the preferable thing to do is to always go on the side of openness. If you have any ideas about deliberating or taking testimony, always do it at the public meeting. Make sure that as much of this is carried out in public meetings--that's the purpose of the county charter's open meeting provision and also the state Sunshine Law. FRANCINE DUNCAN: Fred, do you have any case history where commissions similar to ours may have violated Chapter 92? FRED GIANNINI: There are a number of Attorney General 41, opinions in which advisory opinions have been asked by the Attorney General's office as to whether certain things violate the Sunshine Law. There was a, I believe, one opinion it had to do with the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. And it stated that, what they were proposing was to take the members of the OHA Board--take them off on a sorta of like a retreat weekend at which they would discuss the way in which their office was going to work, of how their board was going to work, and also discuss policies to pursue in the future. The Attorney General's office said that that would have been--that they should not do this because that would be a violation of the state Sunshine Law. Anytime in which you discuss the policy among the people who have the responsibility to come out with the decisions whether it be legislative like the county council, or something, or this commission which is given a specific job, those should not be done in closed meetings but should be done in open meetings. If you want to find specific ones look at the handout I gave you and read some of the sections down at the bottom in the fine print beneath each section you will see cases referred to. I didn't reproduce those cases but some of these things encapsulate what a court decision was or an attorney general's opinion and you can go to those opinions 110 7 or those court cases as far as any further interpretation of • these. I'm a little reluctant right now to go into further detail on this because I believe the Charter Commission will retain its own counsel and as much as possible when you have your own counsel that's who should be giving you the legal interpretations. I'm just giving this brief rundown so you can get an idea of how your meetings are supposed to be run and what the intentions of this is because essentially you are doing a revision of the charter and the corporation counsel's office is a creation of the county charter so I don't want to get into too much about advising you as to what you will be doing. PETE L'ORANGE: Are you done? FRED GIANNINI: I'm finished now, you can open with questions. PETE L'ORANGE: Yeah, I got a couple of questions. One, let's say we chose to appoint a committee to look into hiring a staff. Are they under the provision of the Sunshine Law? FRED GIANNINNI: I would say yes their meetings should be open although there is where you would run into that situation of personal matters. If the person who is being hired would ask that it would be closed for that reason I think you could, say, have the interview in private but the deliberation on whether or not to hire that person would have to be in public and the vote would have to be taken in public. PETE L'ORANGE: Any decision would be made by this commission. FRED GIANNINI: Right. PETE L'ORANGE: I'm talking about an assignment to a small group of individuals from this commission to do a specific task and report back. FRED GIANNINI: I would say that would--that should be done in public. PETE L'ORANGE: That makes it pretty difficult. FRED GIANNINI: Well, yeah. PETE L'ORANGE: I mean from the standpoint that we all live in different places and committees can meet over the telephone...Okay, my other question is.. . ROBERT BETHEA: That rule (inaudible reaction from several committee members) certainly a committee would have the right to go out on an information gathering ... • 8 FRED GIANNINI: And then present to the commission. • ROBERT BETHEA: and then come back. FRED GIANNINI: Yeah, I think if you did that and say in hiring the person the committee looks over the resumes and then presents them as a whole. ROBERT BETHEA: Yeah, that what I meant. FRED GIANNINI: As long as the decision on hiring, the deliberation on hiring, if that's done at a public meeting then that's okay. PETE L'ORANGE: I mean all the deliberations would be... FRED GIANNINI: In public. PETE L'ORANGE: I was with (inaudible) commission and we had so much work we split up into four or five committees which operated on a really regular schedule. The commission met monthly and took the reports and discussed them and made the decisions. FRED GIANNINI: And what commission was that? 11/ PETE L'ORANGE: (inaudible) FRED GIANNINI: Oh. PETE L'ORANGE: My other question and maybe it's in our rules and I haven't read the rules. Must we receive testimony at all meetings or do we receive testimony at specific meetings where it is so designated that this is a testimony meeting and this is a working meeting? ROBERT BETHEA: That is covered in the rules. My question that I have related to that. I have an open meeting question which has to do with rules and procedure but before we do that on this issue of the Sunshine Law. I have another question. Anybody on this side? PAMELA CUSHNIE: Do you see a potential of conflict of interest and do we have access to corp counsel? FRED GIANNINI: As far as corp counsel, the corp counsel is not the proper body to be advising on legal issues. That is the job of the legal counsel that the commission retains. • 9 • PAMELA CUSHNIE: Do you have any premonitions of conflict of • interests? FRED GIANNINI: Well, unless, (pause) typically with this sort of a thing it would be, it's difficult to say, that there is conflict because normally boards where you have like the Planning Commission if a member of the Planning Commission has a financial interest something that's coming up for a permit or something like that-- that's a clear conflict of interest but here what you are talking about, what your job is is to recommend broad overall charter proposals so I would see not very much. I would really be difficult to speculate or hypothesize on possible conflicts of interest here. Again when you get into specific details you might be talking about-- when you come to an area about certain, you know, about revamping--in some way making changes in the structure of county government--if some of you have relatives in the county government or something like that that might be something you might like to have a legal counsel on so that I think would be directed toward the commission's attorney. Again, that is something that I wouldn't want to speculate or hypothesize on what might come up. The conflict of interest that I can see primarily here is a potential of, you know, that the corporation counsel office is a creature of the charter and for us to be advising on what changes should be made to the charter might not be--that would not be totally without an appearance of inpropriety. That's why I'm being, you know, more reticent on giving you an opinion on this. ROBERT BETHEA: Well there are things that don't pertain to that. For example the interpretation on the Sunshine Laws, and I'm simply asking whether or not we should rely on our counsel or are you available for answers to those questions? FRED GIANNINI: I would say our office would be available to you until you hire, until you retain, your counsel and then I would think once you retain counsel all things should be directed to him or her whoever the counsel is. PAMELA CUSHNIE: It sounds like the conflict would come in our depending on the current administration or advice and suggestions we should divorce ourselves from contact? FRED GIANNINI: Well I would think, yeah, that would probably be the correct thing to do. AILEEN LUM: Can I have a clarification on what you mean by divorcing from contact? PAMELA CUSHNIE: No alimony involved. (laughter) • 10 AILEEN LUM: I wish it was that simple. • PAMELA CUSHNIE: I don't think it is fair to go back to the Mayor's office and ask for suggestions other than written testimony we've received. AILEEN LUM: That does not mean that if you, for example, see the Mayor on the street that you can't say hello, how are you doing today. FRED GIANNINI: No, no, essentially what it is when it comes to the deliberation on the issue of the charter the issues of the thing in the charter as far as those go you should be as independent as possible and again when you have a question about the legality of your own procedure--the procedures of your meetings--you should rely on your counsel for that. Now that doesn't mean like that obviously you're gonna have situations in which you you know where you're gonna hold your meeting and how you're gonna use county facilities and stuff like that. To that extent you're gonna be involved with administration. AILEEN LUM: Would the administration (inaudible) precluded (inaudible) testimony. FRED GIANNINI: No, everyone--that's the purpose--is to get testimony from everywhere to get as much make it possible so • that everybody who wants to say something before the commission gets an opportunity to do it. As a matter of fact, I think there are requirements on holding meetings in every district to make sure... ROBERT BETHEA: (inaudible) a charter requirement. FRED GIANNINI: Right. ROBERT BETHEA: Another question (inaudible) on the floor. As I understand it the council has appropriated $100,000.00 for this commission to operate. Is the administration going to provide any other services or are they going to be calculated against that $100,000.00. I'm talking about other than let's say provision for meeting space and that type of thing. Has anybody as from the administration's point of view tried to figure out how that would work? SUSAN LABRENZ: Okay, to my knowledge we have no other budget place to take money from (inaudible) cash expenditure now when you are using a meeting space like this it doesn't cost money so whenever possible I think you need to meet in our public spaces and try to schedule it so you can 11 • (inaudible) I think we have those located throughout the • county in terms of space. ROBERT BETHEA: With this $100,000.00 the commission is to take of all of its other administrative needs, (pause) xeroxing anything all that stuff. AKIRA OMONAKA: Except, I remember the last time the county, you know, the county did provide it with a whole set of mikes for all the commission members which obviously we need because everything is recorded. Basically everybody had a mike with one mike being shared by two guys that kind of equipment was issued from the county. PETE L'ORANGE: Frankly speaking, how do you handle the money? Do you issue a check for $100,000.00 and leave? (laughter) Who handles and how? AKIRA OMONAKA: We submit vouchers and basically the chairman's responsibility is to approve all these things including your mileage and travel expenses all this has to be authorized and is processed through the county system. PETE L'ORANGE: My question to Susan is who do we work with in your finance area to handle the money issues. SUSAN LABRENZ: Good question. • PETE L'ORANGE: So you will assign someone to handle it? SUSAN LABRENZ: Soon as we have our full staff. ROBERT BETHEA: On that handout I did for example there were questions about how do we hire people who handle the payroll and all of that type of thing. One good (inaudible) and I think this came from the transition team of a couple of years ago as a matter of fact I got a hold of this from Al Konishi. Here again is a copy of the County Charter expanded. It's been expanded so that pages are on only one side with big print and a blank space on the back for comments. Here is one of our first things we could do is to get everyone a copy of this. It's really a lot easier to read plus it leaves you the opportunity to make notes. I think this is a document that we're probably going to have to get very familiar with. Are there more questions on this Sunshine Law? I think we can get more advised on that as we go along. Otherwise, we would like to ask you to state specifically because of questions that might arise in connection with rules and procedures which were passed out. Now these were the 1979 Charter Commission's, and I think one of the first things that I think this commission needs to do • 12 before anything else is adopt a rules and procedure and this is what was used before and I think we ought to do that and decide whether or not we want to adopt these particular rules as a working set of rules. I assume that they could be changed at anytime, as a matter of fact, these particular rules provide that they can be amended by a majority of the commission members if it affects the internal management of the commission. So it's not cast in concrete but it sets out a basic structure Perhaps all of us could take a few minutes to review these rules. PETE L'ORANGE: Chairman, I wish to comment that these rules were adopted on April 7 and the first meeting of the previous commission was January 8. So they operated somehow between January 8 and April 7--they probably fumbled along. ROBERT BETHEA: I don't know--if you will take a brief look at them--they don't look too long. SUSAN LABRENZ: (inaudible) 1979 and you were there so you can speak that they took the rules and procedures from the prior. Charter Commission and made some minor modifications but adopted them to get themselves started and as you know it took them to April to finalize them and that is why we provided these for you so you wouldn't have to invent the wheel--so you would have the document that had be used both 11/ in 1969 and in 1979, with some revisions in 1979, so that you will be able to update it in 1989. PAMELA CUSHNIE: Also these first minutes I thought were indicative of maybe the discussions that would go on in this meeting also. SUSAN LABRENZ: That's the other reason we thought of (inaudible) of foreshadowing. ROBERT BETHEA: Perhaps considering particularly the amended rules--we could take a look at them for a few minutes. RULES OF PROCEDURE: AKIRA OMONAKA: Chairman, I move that we adopt these temporary rules and procedures. PAMELA CUSHNIE: Discussion please. ROBERT BETHEA: A motion has been made. Is there a second? JIM JUVIK: Second. PAMELA CUSHNIE: Discussion. I'd like to point out that in Rule IV-C General or regular meetings will be held on 13 Tuesdays at 3:30 p.m. unless otherwise specified. Are you willing to commit to that portion? AKIRA OMONAKA: We can discuss that but I think the intent of the motion is to use these basically as a guide. We can decide more at the next meeting. PETE L'ORANGE: Mr. Chairman. ROBERT BETHEA: Yes. PETE L'ORANGE: I'd like to amend the motion by deleting the Section IX Public Statements. Let me explain my reason for that. I think that it is very important for us to develop a process of how we are gonna take input--how we are gonna to get the most effective input, and I want as much input as we possibly can get from the public, government and everybody involved and I don't think that while we are in that process. deciding how we are gonna do it it's gonna be helpful for us to take statements from the public. I think once we have our ground rules of our organization all made I think that's the time I'd like to see a public statement section written into the rules. PATRICIA POPPE: I thought that Chapter 92 said that we didn't have to accept public input or have allowance for it. 11/ FRED GIANNINI: No, what it states is that all testimony must be taken at public meetings. You can't take testimony in private. PATRICIA POPPE: It doesn't say we have to provide such at all meetings. FRED GIANNINI: No, you could have a public meeting at which you didn't take testimony. PETE L'ORANGE: I'm just suggesting that we defer this until we talk about the other parts. ROBERT BETHEA: I would point out that I don't read Section IX as requiring public testimony. PETE L'ORANGE: Okay. ROBERT BETHEA: I think the point is well taken . It's not that we don't want to get public input but that there are appropriate times for public input. PETE L'ORANGE: If it is not mandatory then I withdraw that. 14 AKIRA OMONAKA: I think one of the things that we need to do it develop a calendar for us in terms of what our schedule would be--timetables (inaudible) general election. (inaudible) at the appropriate time we will go to the public and ask for testimony. In the meantime we can go ahead with a lot of internal things which do not require public testimony. PAMELA CUSHNIE: But still must be open to the public. ROBERT BETHEA: Are there any other comments about these particular rules? JIM JUVIK: I was going to suggest that we amend, adopt the temporary rules and to delete Rule IV-C which was the 3:30 p.m. meeting on Tuesdays because we can set up our own regular meetings. AMENDMENT TO RULE IX-C ROBERT BETHEA: Well, I was going to suggest that the regular meetings will be held, for now, as the majority of the commission may determine for now as part of these and as Akira suggests I think latter on we've gotta work out some regular meeting schedule that suits the majority of the people. If the second to the motion and the person who made the motion would consent to that amendment that Rule IV-C General Regular Meetings will be held as agreed by a majority of the members of the commission with that amendment that would resolve that. Discussion regarding process of motions on the floor was held by Pamela Cushnie, Jim Juvik, Akira Omonaka, Pete L'Orange and Robert Bethea. PETE L'ORANGE: I'm a parlimentarian. Anything that is legal, as long as no one objects. (laughter) It's where you have arguments that you gotta use all the processes. ROBERT BETHEA: The intent is simply that until such time as we fix a regular meeting schedule meetings will be held as and when determined by the commission. All those in favor of that motion signify by saying aye. Opposed. Motion is unanimously carried. ROBERT BETHEA: Did that constitute a motion for the adoption of these rules? Members: Temporary rules. PAMELA CUSHNIE: May I ask Counsel about parlimentary procedure? I think because this is being recorded we are asking for written statements, minutes. . I think we do 11/ 15 • need to more than just a general consensus I think we need to S be specific in our terminology. I think if we could ask Pete L'Orange to keep us on the line with parlimentary procedure it would help the minutes taking. PETE L'ORANGE: All I was saying was that his motion was in order and his willingness to change it was in order the motion should say these rules were adopted (inaudible). ROBERT BETHEA: Make a note that Sherwood Greenwell has joined us at 2:06 p.m. SHERWOOD GREENWELL: I'm sorry I'm late. My morning appointment took longer than I expected. ROBERT BETHEA: We're just glad you to have you here. SHERWOOD GREENWELL: Thank you very much. PAMELA CUSHNIE: Does he need to be sworn in? Discussion was held about swearing in Mr. Greenwell. It was decided the text on the Oath of Loyalty card and the notarizing of such constituted his being sworn in. There was discussion of whether to take public testimony at this first session by Jim Juvik, Akira Omonaka and Robert Bethea. ROBERT BETHEA: Should the commission at this meeting take any testimony? Is that a fair statement of the question? PATRICIA POPPE: May I suggest that possibly if anyone wishes to testify on how they see setting up organizational aspects--we may listen to something about that but as far as substantive issues in the charter that that would be premature at this point, since we are trying to organize. If someone tried to come here with the intent of saying we would like to see you organize along such and such a line, fine if it's not pertinent to that then delay to when it is pertinent. ROBERT BETHEA: Would you express that as a motion then to allow members of the public who are here if they wish to testify relative to matters involving only the organization of this commission? II/ 16 PUBLIC • TESTIMONY: PATRICIA POPPE: I think we could also approve that it be limited to no more than 5 minutes per person because I do think we need to get going and I would so move. ROBERT BETHEA: Is there a second to that motion? PAMELA CUSHNIE: Second. ROBERT BETHEA: Further discussion? ROBERT BETHEA: All of those in favor of the motion please signify by saying aye. Opposed. Carried unanimously. ELECTION OF OFFICERS: ROBERT BETHEA: Well we have other organizational matters to do; however, if there is any testimony on the issues as to the way the commission organizes itself we will take that testimony at this time. (Pause) I see no one has expressed any interest in testifying at this time on that issue so why don't we proceed. Having adopted these temporary rules it seems to me our next step is to go about the process of electing the officers of the commission as described in what will be the 1989 Hawaii charter commission rules therefore in my capacity as Chairman Pro Tem I would open for nominations for the officers. AKIRA OMONAKA: I would like to place a nomination for the chairman pro tem that he serve as charter commission chair. PETE L'ORANGE: Second ROBERT BETHEA: Are there other nominations for the chairman of the charter commission. AILEEN LUM: I would like to nominate Akira Omonaka. ROBERT BETHEA: Okay. AKIRA OMONAKA: At this time I would like to respectfully decline. ROBERT BETHEA: What about other nominations. SHERWOOD GREENWELL: Mr. Chairman, am I yet a member of this commission? ROBERT BETHEA: I think you can vote. An opinion of counsel that having signed even though you haven't raised your hand in front of the Mayor. Are there any other nominations? PAMELA CUSHNIE: I move that the nominations be closed. • 17 PATRICIA POPPE: I second. 11, ROBERT BETHEA: Any discussion? All in favor of that motion please signify by saying aye. All opposed. Motion passed. Alright so I'll continue in this capacity. The next involves the election of the vice chairman. PETE L'ORANGE: I would like to nominate Sherwood Greenwell as vice chairman and I would like to explain why I would like Sherwood Greenwell. I think we need somebody from the west side of the island because we are going to be having public hearings. We are going to have public input and there are going to be instances where the chairman can't travel to every place and if we have a geographic distribution of the duties I think, number one, that that is a good idea and number two, Mr. Greenwell has tremendous experience in county government and county council meeting procedures. CHR. BETHEA: Is there a second to that motion? AKIRA OMONAKA: Second. CHR. BETHEA: It's been moved and seconded. AILEEN LUM: I move that the nominations be closed. JIM JUVIK: Second. CHR. BETHEA: All those in favor of the nominations being closed signify by saying aye. All those--is that necessary? PETE L'ORANGE: (inaudible) secretary cast unanimously ballot electing. CHR. BETHEA: I so direct the secretary. We now have a chairman and a vice chairman and I think we've run out of that initial agenda and actually maybe now may be a good time to consider-- AKIRA OMONAKA: Chairman, I don't know if I should put it in a motion form or what we need to authorize the chairman and vice chairman to hire necessary staff (inaudible). FRED GIANNINI: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, but we've had a request that people raise their voice and speak more clearly. CHR. BETHEA: Akira, Z wonder if I could ask you to hold that a little bit while I would like to have a discussion of this work plan. I think this is a very appropriate subject and I would like to ask the commission members to focus on that a second. And really honestly I have no intent to try to sell 11/ 18 this particular birth plan. As I said, it is not S chronological. I simply tried to list subject matter areas and what we might take up. I agree with Mr. Omonaka that one of the things we need to take up right away is the commission hiring section which is Item I(D) on this proposed workplan, and I tried to list what I thought were possible people we would need, an attorney, what I call executive assistant, type stenographer and that t e of thing, and then I raised the question about commission office, commission reimbursements, if any, etc. I didn't expect to do this as Chairman. Let me just explain to the commission the thought I had about executive assistance. Akira, from your experience can you tell us whether this is a good idea or a bad idea. Discussion (Robert Bethea, Pete L'Orange, Pamela Cushnie, Jim Juvik, Patricia Poppe, Akira Omonaka, Francine Duncan, Sherwood Greenwell) about whether or not the commission should look for someone who was more than a stenographer-- someone who has organizational and administrative abilities-- a person who can summarize and research background information for the commission. It was discussed to hire more than one person to handle administrative duties as a concept. The need to determine budget, advertising in the media, how to get reimbursed. What about hearing officers rather than administrative assistants? What can they do about public apathy? Lack of information to the public could be a reason for apathy. It was agreed to hire a secretary right away. It was decided that one individual was better than two (one from East Hawaii and one from West Hawaii) for continuity. Akira stated that the commission members should follow the format set forth by the last Charter Commission in order to save time. The commission needs a good PR person and they need to inform the public from the every beginning not just before the vote. HIRING OF PATRICIA POPPE: I would get back to Akira's previous motion SECRETARY: and I would like to move that Mr. Chairman, you, be designated to go ahead and find us a secretary who would at least get these procedural matters under way. Let's at least get that out of the way. CHR. BETHEA: Is there a second to that motion? SHERWOOD GREENWELL: As lohg as it's not your secretary. (laughter) I second that. CHR. BETHEA: On that issue. You know we have compensation questions, etc. For example, should this person be an employee of the commission or, Susan, for example is it a county employee we can track for their services? Akira, what did we do? 111 AKIRA OMONAKA: The steno was strictly answerable to the commission members and in the interim between meetings and 19 preparing minutes any work that needed to be done basically she would do. Things like accepting calls. As an example, a meeting is scheduled for next week--if any one of us cannot come, you know, we have a duty to call her--we have someone to call so she knows whether we have a quorum or no quorum. That's the kind of person that needs to be put on board right away. JIM JUVIK: Was this a full-time position? AKIRA OMONAKA: Yes, I forget the salary y ran e g but there was a salary paid to her. CHR. BETHEA: I have an item on this thing that I did, about commission office, location, mailing address, business hours, equipment, etc. Is that something we would also obtain? AKIRA OMONAKA: We've had good cooperation from the Mayor's mice .in e past. Obviously, depending on where we meet we're gonna need these mikes because the steno is going to have a hard time--so we've always had these mikes even when we go out into the public we will all need these mikes. These things need to be brought in on line right away. CHR. BETHEA: Maybe we could get some help from the administration on that particular issue. Well, I don't mind the charge of this commission to go out and find someone who 411 can serve in this capacity. Do we have thoughts about a salary range? Let me ask a question? Did we put her on a payroll and the commission is the employer for all state purposes. What did we do? That's why I was looking for a shadow employer. PATRICIA POPPE: Mr. Chairman, may I suggest that we take things at least in order? At the moment we have a motion to get somebody, we know we've got to. Can't we move to do that and then take the next question which is who does she report to? I think we're tending now to wander. Let's move on. CHR. BETHEA: Alright. Well, the motion as I understand it was that I go out an find somebody to serve as secretary to this commission. All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. All those opposed. Motion carried. The Chairman was asked to follow up on steno benefits, who is actual employer, is it a contractual hire, salary schedules, and office space, etc. In the meantime, Chairman Bethea asked the County to continue to provide steno assistance for at least one more meeting. There was more discussion by Pamela Cushnie, Akira Omonaka, Robert Bethea, Patricia Poppe regarding the type of work the 111 steno would be performingand whether he or not that work would 20 0 entail a full-time job. Could that person take on executive 11/ tasks? Akira Omonaka expressed that it might be difficult for the steno to take on executive tasks as he remembers that the clerical workload was very heavy in 1979. There was discussion as to what each commissioner member thought was their job. The idea of a common/shared vision was agreed upon. Members felt that systems needed to be identified especially those that might be appropriate for them to study. Questions were asked as to how they would generate the interest of public, what process would they use to take public comments and what educational processes would they use. The suggestion was made to invite people with specialized knowledge to come and share that information with them at meetings. Other questions raised were what form of government should they go to, and is the present charter okay as it is? More discussion was held by Pamela Cushnie, Sherwood Greenwell and Robert Bethea as to the need to be specific about the requirements for the steno. ADOPTION OF CHR. BETHEA: Could we simply adopt county procedures for COUNTY reimbursement of expeditures? PROCEDURES OF REIMBURSEMENT : JIM JUVIK: I move that we adopt standard County procedures for per diem, mileage and other expenses. CHR. BETHEA: Second to the motion? AILEEN LUM: Second. CHR. BETHEA: Any discussion? All in favor of the motion signify by saying aye. All opposed. Motion carried. It was decided that each member should review the temporary rules and procedures before the next meeting and come forward at that time with any amendments. There was discussion as to the hiring of an attorney. It was suggested that the commission advertise for that position. Members were asked to think about minimum requirements, job description and guidelines. Do they need a full time attorney as drafting needs may vary. Chairman Bethea directed Jim Juvik to draw up an ad to present to the commission at the next meeting. He was asked to think about qualifications and the process of selecting an attorney. It was suggested that the person should have experience in ordinance writing and knowledge of legislative matters. It was felt that it would be best to draw someone from private practice. What about pay? Hourly basis? Flat fee? By advertising, the commission would get an idea of who is interested. Do we prefer experience? It was agreed that the commission would need someone who would have the ability to take the intent of the commission and present it in a logical clear way.Discussion was held as to Show to stimulate more public awareness and participation. 21 Media announcements should come from the Chairman with the S consent of the commission. Once the commission decides on how is it to educate itself, then they can share it with the public by buying ads to make sure it is on the front page or treated as a news item rather than a public legal announcement such as notice of meetings and agendas. Pamela Cushnie stated that the press should not have to take on the burden of educating the public through the press. 1 AKIRA OMONAKA: Can we adopt these ideas at a later meeting? CHR. BETHEA: We have been here two hours, everybody, and we have some tasks to do between now and the next meeting. Should we plan a meeting a week from now, two weeks from now, three weeks from now? What time? Does everyone want on a two-week break while they read the charter and try to get themselves a little further along in the self-education process? NEXT MEETING: After much discussion, it was decided by the commission members to hold the next meeting in Hilo on Wednesday, January 25, 1989, at 4:00 p.m. in the Liquor Control Conference Room. Chairman Bethea requested that Susan Labrenz have the public relations person in the Mayor's office take care of the next public meeting notice. 11/ Rules, attorney qualifications and ads for the position, commission education as set for in Section II of the proposed work plan and the importance of a shared vision were items that the commission felt should be included in the agenda of the next meeting. Pete L'Orange presented to the commission members a methodology of decision making which is has been used effectively to control the length of discussions and deliberations in large groups. David Fuertes recommended a strategic planning workshop/seminar to learn how to determine a common mission and common goal--what to do and how to get there. It was decided that a workshop on strategic planning was not necessary but that it was important to have a common vision. Sherwood Greenwell said that the same methodology of decision making described by Pete L'Orange was used by the Decisions 1988 whereby each person speaks in turn, one at a time, in a circle fashion, until there is no further discussion. Discussion was held on whether or not minutes of the first session should be verbatim. Fred Giannini stated that deliberations and the taking of testimony and discussions of changes having to do with the charter should be by S transcription. Other items can be paraphased or synopsized. 22 9 ♦ %,u Akira Omonaka presented to the commission members copies of various charters of other counties which were used as sample documents by the Charter Commission of 1979. Chairman Bethea directed Karolyn Nagao to make copies for each member to be used as part of the information gathering process. He also suggested that the commission invite the previous Managing Director to the next meeting to give the commission an overview of how a charter works and how it is made. Sherwood Greenwell suggested that they ask the attorney who was hired by the 1979 Charter Commission to come and speak to them. Compensation was discussed, but it was decided that the person they ask will probably come as a part of his civic duty. Steve Bess was suggested by Pete L'Orange as a possible speaker. It was decided that the next meeting would be a basic information meeting for the commission members. Public testimony will not be taken at this meeting. The status of the County Charter as a legal document will be discussed. Susan Labrenz suggested that the commission establish a contact person and telephone number so that calls coming in from the public will not interefere with the administrative staff in the Mayor's Office. It was decided to have all calls directed to Karolyn Nagao at 961-8211 for now until the commission hires a secretary. Jim Juvik asked if copies of the County Charter were available to hand out to the public. He was told that copies of the charter are available through the Office of the County Clerk for a fee. Copies are available to the commission members at no charge. There was a question as to whether commission members are required to submit financial disclosures. Fred Giannini stated that Section 2-91.1 of the Hawaii County Code, Financial Disclosures and Disclosures of Interest says that "agency" means any office, department board, commission, or other governmental unit of the executive or legislative branches of the County, but does not include subdivisions or departments; specifically whether this is a division--it says commission, but there is a question as to whether that means only commissions or governmental units and it appears that it is any commission and this is a commission. ADJOURNMENT: Meeting was adjourned at 3:35 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED: KAROLYN NAGAO, RECORDING CRETARY PRO TEM 23