HomeMy WebLinkAboutCHC 1979-01-08 HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER COMMISSION
M I NUT E S
1st Session
January 8, 1979
Hilo, Hawaii
The first session of the Hawaii County Charter Commission
was called to order at 3 :02 p.m. in the Hawaii County Councilroom,
Hawaii County Building, Hilo, Hawaii, by Mr. Kimiaka Sakata,
Chairman Pro Tem.
The roll recorded the following:
Present: Mr. Harlan Cadinha
Mr. Richard Ishida
Mrs. Amy Iwamoto
Mrs. Gloria Kobayashi
Mr. Akira Omonaka
Mr. Kimiaki Sakata
Mr. Spencer Kalani Schutte
Mr. Herman Sensano
Mr. Joseph Trulson
Mr. Basilio Yagong
Mr. Matsuo Yanaga
Councilman James Dahlberg
Councilman Tornio Fujii
Councilwoman Merle Lai
Corporation Counsel Stephen Bess
County Clerk R. B. Legaspi
Recording Secretary E. L. Ludloff
INTRODUCTORY The Chair called on Councilman Fujii who said a
REMARKS: -few words on behalf of the County Council. He
thanked the commissioners for volunteering their
time and effort to serve on the Commission and
added that theirs will be a tremendous undertaking
with many hours of long, hard work. On behalf of the Council, he
extended their appreciation for the Commissioners ' willingness to
be of service to the County of Hawaii.
COMMUNI- The following communications were considered:
CATIONS :
Comm. 1 : From County Clerk R. B. Legaspi transmitting the
Oath of Office certificates for the Charter
Commission members.
The Chair directed that the certificates
be filed with the County Clerk. There
was no objection.
Comm. 2 : From the Rev. H. K. Boshard dated December 15, 1978,
offering suggestions on Council reapportionment.
Mr. Omonaka moved to acknowledge
receipt of the letter and to inform
Rev. Boshard that when the Commission
deliberates on election of Council
members by districts, his letter will
be considered. Seconded by Mr. Yagong
and unanimously carried.
SUNSHINE LAW The Chair then called on Corporation Counsel
ORIENTATION: Stephen Bess to explain the provisions of the
Sunshine Law.
Mr. Bess advised the commissioners that they should
follow the provisions of Section 13-20(b) , Hawaii County Charter,
pertaining to meetings. The Charter sought to provide as much
openness in government as possible, therefore, all decisions
should be made in full view of the public to assure that all deci-
sions were made in the best interest of the public.
There was a great deal of litigation on the Sunshine Law provisions
of the charter, the most recent centered on how the charter was to
be read with Chapter 92, Hawaii Revised Statutes. Judge Kubota' s
ruling on the State of Hawaii vs. the Hawaii County Police
Commission, was that the charter applied and that none of the
provisions of Chapter 92 applied. Mr. Bess suggested that it might
be helpful for the commission to refer to Chapter 92 as a guide as
it sets up a number of procedures to be followed which the charter
does not do.
ORGANIZATION The selection of a permanent Chairman was considered
OF at this time. Mr. Omonaka nominated Mr. Sakata
MMISSION: and Mr. Cadinha nominated Mr. Schutte to serve as
chairman of the commission.
Election Mr. Yanaga moved that the nominations
of Chairman: for Chairman be closed. Seconded by
Mr. Sensano and unanimously carried.
By a show of hands, the votes cast for Chairman were:
Mr. Schutte - 5 votes
Mr. Sakata - 6 votes
Mr. Sakata was elected Chairman of the Charter
Commission.
Election The selection of a Vice Chairman was considered at
of Vice this time. Mr. Trulson nominated Mr. Schutte to
Chairman: serve as vice chairman of the commission.
Mr. Omonaka moved that nominations
for Vice Chairman be closed. Seconded
by Mr. Sensano and unanimously carried.
Mr. Schutte was unanimously elected Vice Chairman
of the Charter Commission.
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RULES OF The commission reviewed the 1965 Charter Commis-
PROCEDUgE: sion' s rules of procedure as a guide to formulating
their own rules. The following revisions were
offered:
Rule I. Officers : Delete the words "appointed by the Board of
Supervisors" .
Rule II. Duties and Powers of the Chairman: Amend Section "D"
by inserting between the "members and" , the word
"committees" .
Rule III. Duties and Powers of Vice Chairman: No change.
Rule IV. Meetings : Amend Section "A" by deleting the words
"Board room of the" and inserting in lieu thereof
the words "Councilroom, Hawaii" .
Amend Section "B" by deleting the words "at any time"
and adding after the work "commission" the words
"in accordance with applicable laws" .
Amend Section "C" by deleting the words "once a
week at 4:00" and inserting in lieu thereof the
words "on Tuesdays at 3" .
Rule V: Attendance: No change.
Rule VI: Quorum and Transaction of Business : No change.
Rule VII. Voting: No change.
Rule VII: Order of Business : Amend Section "E" by deleting
the words "Action on requests" and inserting in
lieu thereof "Business of the Day'.' .
Amend Rule VIII by adding, "H. Adjournment" and
deleting it from Rule IX.
Public The commission discussed the matter of allowing
Statements : public statements at its meetings.
MR. YANAGA: This meeting is open to the public now.
If anybody wants to make a public statement, are we going to allow
them to make any public statement?
MR. LEGASPI: If you so desire. The commission has
to decide on their own what to do, whether to open up to the public.
While it is very good democratically, it fouls up the process in
theory. What you cold do is that maybe when you are coming to
a certain subject, open it to the public. It' s good PR-wise,
but operation-wise, it becomes a hangup.
MR. OMONAKA: I think as far as input is concerned,
we should be going out to public hearing and this is when we
should get the input, not when we conduct our daily order of
business, otherwise everybody is going to come up.
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CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Yeah, and we' re going to get a
lot of hang-ups.
MR. OMONAKA: Public hearings should be scheduled
islandwide.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Probably at the next meeting we
have to set a timetable anyway. When we' re going to get public
hearings, where and what time, and get input from the public.
MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman, shouldn' t we have in
the procedure some way to prevent 40 people who want to talk, how
do we refrain them from speaking? Unless we have somewhere a
procedure whereby if somebody wants to address the commission,
they know what the agenda is, then they request to address us.
Or do we just take people from the audience?
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: This is open to the public and
they' re going to come. If they' re going to want to speak on
certain areas of the charter, I don' t know whether we can tell them
okay or shut them up or not. I really don' t know right now.
MR. TRULSON: Perhaps we can set a procedure
whereby they would have to request in writing prior to the meeting.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Probably, yes, if that' s the case.
MR. TRULSON: But we don' t have a rule to that effect.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: We have to.
MR. LEGASPI: This is what we do on the council,
but we are very unusual. We are the only council that permits
statements from the public. A compromise would be if you allow
statements from the public, to control it like we do on the
council, say 5 minutes per speaker.
MR. SCHUTTE: But limiting a speaker could be a
problem.
MR. LEGASPI: It could be.
MR. OMONAKA: Can' t we set it up so that we can
take testimony from anyone who wants to say something at public
hearings and we can schedule those things more often.
MR. LEGASPI: If that is your pleasure.
MR. SCHUTTE: Let me make a suggestion. Correspondence
as the one we had today from Reverend Boshard. A situation such
as this individual wishing to express his opinion to the commission,
could be done in the same way, I believe, that when we come to
that particular phase of the charter, that we will review that
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which deals with their request. They could be informed of it and
if they would like to speak, we can allow them to do this. I
think if we are going to allow it openly, it will be open for
discussion to the general public.
MR. .CADINHA Mr. Chairman, I think that perhaps
the order of business should be on a written agenda, 72 hours prior
to the meeting date, and those people that want to testify have
to be on an allotted time. They must be on the agenda otherwise,
I agree, we might open a can of worms possibly and be here for
5 hours to listen to people rant and rave. The hearing dates,
obviously, have to be open dates.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Do the commission members all
agree on this? That we should request on the agenda that if
they want to publicly testify that they should inform us 72 hours
in advance?
MR. TRULSON: If we have a meeting next week
Tuesday, for example, 72 hours before Tuesday, each one of the
commissioners should have the meeting agenda as it is to be
covered on that next meeting date. If there are any outside
people that want to bring up their own point of view at that ,';:
meeting date, they could be on the agenda, but that seems to me
would cut down the spontaneous sort of chatter that one could get.
MR. =CAD?bNjiAL Maybe that' s too strict. I don' t know.
CHAIRMAN S;AKATA: Kalani just suggested that if
there is any request to be made to the commission here, it should
be like Rev. Boshard. Put it in writing first?
MR. TRULSON: That' s not what I'm saying.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Not necessary.
MR. TRULSON: A person should commit himself.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Ahead of time if he wanted to.
MR. YANAGA: Iserved on a commission previous to
this and we do have on the agenda public statements. Before the
meeting, whoever wants to speak, we have them sign in.
MR. CADINHA Is there a time limit?
MR. YANAGA: No...
MR. SENSANO: Mr. Chairman, I think we should think
of a time limit because I have heard some people come to testify
here and they take alot 'of time. And if people know there' s a
time limit, their feeling won' t be as strong : if they know ahead of
time that there is going to be a time limit. And whoever speaks,
better make sure that they think of what they' re going to say
because some people can get up spontaneously and waste a lot of
time. And if possible, we should encourage them to give us a
draft of what they' re going to present.
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CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Then shall we put that if they
want to testify on certain things on the charter that they should
inform us ahead of time and we' ll put them on the agenda for the.
meeting. Is this agreeable to all of you?
MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman, I think what I was
trying to express is similar to what Commissioner Trulson said.
What I am suggesting is that if somebody wants to say something,
they' re going to write a letter to us informing us that they would
like to be put on the agenda when we come to that portion of the
charter that they are interested in. I don' t see any reason for
them getting up and speaking about a section of the charter that
we are not even dealing with at the time. I think it' s very
insignificant to even listen to them. It' s not going to make any
impression. By the time we get to that portion, we' ll forget about
it. But if they are here to speak at that particular time that
we are working on that portion of the charter, I think it will
be more in line with allowing them that time. And if they write,
like Rev. Boshard did, we can tell them exactly when we will be
on that portion and we can accept their testimony at that time.
Then we also have the opportunity to look at a number of individuals
who would like to speak at any particular period and set it up
that way.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: On that basis, we will have
people write a written statement or letter, and at that particular
time when we' re working on that problem on the charter, we will
have them come and testify in person if they want.
Mr. Trulson moved that this proce-
dure relating to statements be put
in the rules. Seconded by Mr. Cadinha
and unanimously carried.
MRS . KOBAYASHI: Are we going to limit them as to
how many minutes they can speak, also? Or are we going to let
them --- .
MR. YANAGA: Maybe we should look at the situation.
If we have too many guys, we set a time. If only a couple of
guys, we can let them go.
MR. SCHUTTE: One thing they usually end up doing
anyway is, really, the way that I have observed, the letter they
have already sent to us, all we've got to do is ask them questions
in regard to their position on that letter.
MR. TRULSON: I think perhaps the number of people
we want to speak will dictate how much time we will give them.
If we have one or two, give them more time than if we have twenty.
The chairman could be in charge of that. He can see how many
people are going to be there and before anybody speaks , he could
set a time limit.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: This will be a new section in
our rules, Rule IX.
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Rule X. Parliamentary Practice: No change.
Rule XI. Expenses : No change.
Rule XII. Decisions : No change.
Rule XIII. Salary of Commission Members : Deleted in its entirety.
Rule XIV. Other Payments : Renumbered Rule XIII and insert
between the words "secretary, mileage" , the word
"semi-monthly" .
Rule XV. Renumbered Rule XIV.
Mr. Cadinhaa moved to adopt the
rules as discussed. Seconded by
Mr. Schutte and unanimously carried.
SELECTION OF The commissioners authorized the chairman and
SECRETARY: vice chairman to select a secretary for the commission.
SELECTION OF The following discussion was had on the selection
LEGAL of a legal counsel for the commission.
COUNSEL:
MR. ISHIDA: On the matter of selection of legal
counsel, Mr. Chairman, if I may be permitted to just say something
on it.
It is my suggestion to the commission that I would
be more, not concerned presently as to legal counsel per se as
legal counsel, you know. I am sympathetic that in a lot of areas
we would be required to have a lot of research done. Whether it
will be done by legal counsel or otherwise, I know not. That' s
a matter that can be determined when the time arises. But what I
anticipate is that I don' t think it' s going to be incumbent upon
us as members of this commission, or whether we are all qualified
to do it, but when research is required, we would have to ask
somebody to do the research. Now, is we' re going to have legal
counsel to do that, then what I think we should consider is
whether we will hire legal counsel on an hourly basis, private
counsel from the outside on an hourly basis, or whether we would
hire one on a salaried basis which would probably, if we' re
talking about budgetary item, would probably be of a lesser cost
to us.
Mysuggestion is that the counsel that we look
for is one that will work very closely with the chairman and that
he would act not as a secretary but act like a reporter for this
commission who would be able to work very closely with the
chairman and get all the agendas together, see that we meet all
the requirements, such as the sunshine law and like that, because
I think if it is otherwise, to require the chairman or vice chairman
that responsibility is quite burdensome. And I think if we can
have somebody that we can have on our staff, regularly salaried
staff member, then maybe it would help us expedite matters, too.
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This is how I feel that would help the commission
immensely. I have talked to corporation counsel. I don' t think
to use one of their deputies would be a good idea because I think
we would like to be somehow separated. However, whether we would
need one fulltime deputy or a counsel is something that maybe we' ll
have to determine. But if we could provide sufficient funds,
maybe we could work some financial arrangement with the corporation
counsel which would probably be more feasible financially. Of
course, the one alternative is that we do go out and get legal
counsel. I notice that the proposal that was given to us was on
the basis of $50 an hour requiring only 52 meetings times 8 hours
and 12 public hearings. The total cost is approximately $25,000.
If we would require research of this individual, it would be more
than the hours represented here. Then, of course, that would
automatically go higher on the cost.
My suggestion is if we could get somebody to work
very closely with the commission, I'm just looking in terms of
having things expedited.
CHAIRMAN SAKATA: You are the only legal mind
among the members. You know this part better than any of us. We
really don' t know.
RECESS: At 4:30 p.m. , the Chair called for a short recess.
RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 4:50 p.m. with all members
present.
CALENDAR The Chair appointed Mr. Omonaka and Mrs. Kobayashi
SCHEDULE to work with County Clerk Legaspi in preparing a
COMMITTEE: calendar schedule of meetings and hearings for the
commission. By unanimous consent, the committee
would prepare a calendar to project a special
election in November, 1979, to vote on the proposed charter
amendments.
BUDGET The Chair appointed Vice Chairman Schutte and
COMMITTEE: Mr. Cadinha to prepare a budget for the commission.
ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, the meeting was
adjourned at 5 :39 p.m. until Tuesday, January 16,
1979 , at 3 p.m. , Hawaii County Councilroom.
E. L. H. Ludloff
RECORDING SECRETARY
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