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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCHC 1979-02-06 HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER COMMISSION MINUTES 5th Session February 6, 1979 Hilo, Hawaii The fifth session of the Hawaii County Charter Commission was called to order at 3: 38 p.m. in the Hawaii County Councilroom, Hawaii County Building, Hilo, Hawaii, by Mr. Kimiaka Sakata, Chairman. The roll recorded the following: Present: Mr. Harlan Cadinha Mr. Richard Ishida Mrs. Amy Iwamoto Mrs. Gloria Kobayashi Mr. Akira Omonaka Mr. Kimiaki Sakata Mr. Spencer Kalani Schutte Mr. Herman Sensano Mr. Joseph Trulson Mr. Basilio Yagong Mr. Matsuo Yanaga Recording Secretary, J. Carnett APPROVAL OF It was moved, seconded and carried that the MINUTES: minutes for the 3rd Session, dated January 23 , 1979 be approved. It was moved , seconded and carried that the minutes for the 2nd Session, dated January 16, 1979 and for the 4th Session, dated January 30 , 1979 be deferred until the next session. DEPARTMENTAL It was moved, seconded and carried that the TESTIMONY: Rules be suspended and Departmental testi- mony be accepted. RESEARCH AND Inti-oduction was made of Mr. Clarence Garcia, DEVELOPMENT: Director who presented the Commission with his p-repa'red' statement. MR. GARCIA: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, My name is Clarence Garcia and I am the Director of the Department of Research and Development. In the handout that I handed out to you, I am recommending no changes to the Hawaii County Charter as it now exists as it pertains to the Department of Research and Development. On the second page, I 've attached the table of organization of the department as it now exists. The top portion designates the permanent staff and the listing under CETA, SCET and CONTRACT indicate the temporary positions that we have attached to the department at this time. One thing that I might add here in addition to what I have just handed to you is that it has been suggested on different occasions that the Department of Research and Development be consolidated with the Planning Department and my recommendation, after being in this position for four years, is that I think this would be a difficult task for anyone to carry out. The reason being that in our department, the Department of Research and Development, we are actively involved in promoting the Big Island. Promoting the Big Island as a place to do business. Promoting the Big Island as a place for people to locate to do business. Promoting the Big Island as a place for visitors to come and visit the island. A function such as this of promoting and the Planning Department where it, has the regulatory aspects , you will find are two functions that are not very compatible if combined. I will answer any questions that you may have of the department ' s activities. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Garcia, you are responsible directly to the mayor for your department? MR. GARCIA: Yes. MR. ISHIDA: You made the statement that it has been suggested that the Department of Research and Devel- opment be made part of the Planning Department. As far as you are concerned in the operations of your department and that of the Planning Department, are there any duplication of efforts that you can think of? MR. GARCIA: None that I can think of at the moment. MR. ISHIDA: Have you encountered any exper- ience of that sort? MR. GARCIA: Not in my four years in this particular position. In our activities of promoting we are apart from those the Planning Department carries out. The area where we are really kept together is when it becomes involved with the regulatory aspects, whether the zoning is permitted, or whatever, as it pertains to the regulatory aspects. But, as such, we have had no difficulties in carrying out our activities. MR. ISHIDA: I noted that in the Charter there are certain departments which are accountable directly to the managing director and certain departments that are accountable directly to the mayor. Your department is accountable directly to the mayor Is there any reason for that distinction? Is there any benefit or gratis for that being such? -2- MR. GARCIA: We were designated as a staff agency to the mayor and we provide support to the mayor. MR. ISHIDA: Do you find yourself in any conflict with the managing director? MR. GARCIA: Not up to the moment. We have worked very well together. MR. ISHIDA: Do you see any problems in having your department come directly under the managing director instead of directly under the mayor? MR. GARCIA: f Right off hand I don ' t anticipate any problems, no. MR. ISHIDA: Is it practically speaking, it really doesn ' t make any difference because. . .do you still report ultimately to the managing director? MR. GARCIA: That is correct. We work together with the individuals. MRS. IWAMOTO: Mr. Garcia, I notice that you also have a deputy director under you. MR. GARCIA: Yes. MRS. IWAMOTO: Is the deputy director appointed by you? MR. GARCIA: By the mayor. MRS. KOBAYASHI : You have so many temporary employees , don ' t you? Is this something that is fairly recent and what will happen when the CETA programs run out? MR. GARCIA: To answer your last question first, it would be disaster. The reason we have a lot of the CETA and SCET people onboard we were involved, when these positions were made available to us , in cases with the Civil Aeronautics Board and some of the Federal Maritime Commission proceedings. These people assisted us with some of the legwork. This is the reason they came onboard. They came on with the particular program area for a special project which they have just about completed. In fact, the SCET positions will be ending in March of this year and CETA will be terminating in September of this year. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Mr. Garcia, when the CETA program is terminated do you still feel that your organization table is still going to be running smoothly without this special help. MR. GARCIA: Well , what it is going to mean when we lose the SCET and CETA positions, that we will have to restrict some of the other involvements that we have been involved with. So we would have to curtail some of the activities. -3- CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Right now, under the Charter, you feel that you have enough personnel to carry on the activities of the Research and Development organization. MR. GARCIA: I would say, basically, yes. Of course, everyone always tries to get additional bodies but I think, basically, with what we have we are able to perform the duties because I think that for special projects we can always hire special talent for whateverthe duration of the project. MR. SCHUTTE : Mr. Garcia, your department is involved with a lot of research on various subjects and various functions within the county, at times , as it pertains to the state. With the CETA and SCET workers , I think you mentioned that if they were depleted or if this program were none-existent it would be rather difficult for your department to carry on its operations with its maximum efficiency. Is that correct? MR. GARCIA: Yes, what it would mean it would have to reduce the activities that we are involved with now. We wouldn ' t be able to do as much, basically. And, as I mentioned a moment ago, these people came onboard for a special project so they added this additional manpower, gave us this additional help that we did not have. But if a similar situation arises again that will be, you know. . . . MR. SCHUTTE: But ordinarilynow can you keep this amount of workers continuously busy with statistics and reference work throughout the year? What I am trying to estab- lish is. . . . MR. GARCIA: Well , let me give you an example for each of the positions. What they are doing right now. The top in the blocks I think is pretty self-explanatory. But for example, in the CETA in the first position, this individual is responsible for collecting all of our statistics and keeping our statistics current. This is the individual who puts together the County Data Bookthat comes out annually. The second individual , right now, is responsible for the manganese nodule program and also the aquaculture program that we 're promoting for the Big Island. So these are two large program areas that this individual is involved. The third individual is involved with the ultimate energy program for the county. So he ' s involved in the energy programs. The last individual is involved with the visitor industry program. We are promoting the Big Island and we have requests for a lot of materials from the travel industry outside of this state. So this individual is responsible for putting this material together and satisfying this requirement. The other two under SCET will be terminated at the end of March, so that particular program is pau. And then under the CONTRACT, the convention coordinator is a contract position to the end of the year to coordinate a Society of American Travel Writers ' convention which will be held here in October of this year. So this is hired expertise for the particular event which will terminate after the event. -4- MR. SCHUTTE: So outside of these CETA and SCET workers your department would be able to operate with sufficient amount of people as you have listed here? Your secretary, your agricultural program coordinator, economist, clerk-stenographer and your marketing program specialist. Is that all you need to operate this department? MR. GARCIA: If we are going to continue for example with the manganese nodule program, the aquaculture program and programs such as those, they are very time consuming programs and with the makeup we have we wouldn ' t be able to provide all of the services that we have been providing up to this time. MR. SCHUTTE: It is very possible, Mr. Garcia, that you may have to continue with this number of personnel if your department is required to provide all these additional statistics and data. MR. GARCIA: Yes , if we are going to be involved with these additional activities, I 'm considerfLng in some shape or form continuing these people after the programs terminate if there would be a need to provide these services. MR. SCHUTTE: You say, if you are called upon to provide these services. Why would it be an "if"? I would assume that if this came before the county that you would auto- matically have to be involved with it because it would come under research and economic development. Maybe I could clarify this , what I am saying is that you mention that "if" you are going to be involved, or "if" your department is going to be called upon to do this research with these various other industries that may come about in the future, my question is, why do you say "if" you are going to be called upon to do it. I would assume that the mayor would direct this to your . depart- ment to handle the research. MR. GARCIA: That is correct. We are doing this. If I said "if", I didn ' t mean to say it. MR. SCHUTTE : You feel that as it stands right here now that this department first of all should ;not . be part of the Planning Department because there is enough work to keep this particular department separated. MR. GARCIA: And the nature of the activities, I think. MR. SCHUTTE: You also feel that the Charter as it provides for the Department of Research and Development is satisfactory as it stands? MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir. MR. SCHUTTE: You have no other additions that you would like to make at all. -5 MR. GARCIA: I see nothing that I 'd like to add right now. MR. SCHUTTE : Thank you, Mr. Garcia. MRS. KOBAYASHI : Has there always been a Department of Research and Development? Since we have had a mayor? MR. GARCIA: 'es. The Charter form of govern- ment, yes. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Thank you, very much, Mr. Garcia. COMMUNI- It was moved, seconded and carried that the CATIONS: Commission return to the day' s agenda. Comm. 14: Letter from Herbert M. Richards, Chairman of the County of Hawaii Police Commission , dated January 26, 1979, submitting recommendations for Charter revisions. It was moved, seconded and carried that Communication 14 be received and filed. Comm. 15 : Letter from Jon R. Ono, Prosecting Attorney, received January 31 , 1979, submitting recom- mended Charter revisions for the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney. It was moved, seconded and carried that Communication 15 be received and filed. Comm. 16: Letter from George M. Paiva, Sefety Coordinator, dated January 29, 1979, submitting an overview of the duties and responsibilities of the Division of Industrial Safety. It was moved, seconded and carried that Communication 16 be received: and filed. Comm. 17: Letter from R. B. Legaspi , County Clerk, dated January 29, 1979, submitting an overview of the operations of County Clerk and recommen- dations for Charter revisions. It was moved, seconded and carried that Communication 17 be received and filed. -6- DEPARTMENTAL It was moved, seconded and carried that the TESTIMONY: Rules be suspended and the Commission return to the Departmental Testimonies. PARKS & Introduction was made of Mr. Milton Hakoda, RECREATION: Director who presented the Commission with his prepared statement. MR. HAKODA: This, as you are aware, is the overview of the department. It is charged with the responsibil- ities of maintaining and operating recreational yeas and facili- ties under 'bounty jurisdiction. . It has as another major function, the conducting of organized recreational activities. Senior citizens are provided, in addition to recreation, a nutrition service, a volunteer program and community service employment. The reason I mention this is that there are three basic depart- ments, divisions , rather, in the department which are the parks maintenance, the recreation program, that is the organized program and another big program is the elderly activities or the senior citizens program. Traditionally, the state has operated those recreational areas and facilities which tend to conserve or enhance our natural resources and they tend to operate those facilities which are considered passive recreational. The county:;: on the other hand, has developed and conducted programs and facilities which cater to the more active types of recreational activities, such as ball fields, tennis courts , swimming pools, gymnasiums, etc. To carry out our responsibilities , the department is organized into three major divisions and seven sections. The divisions consist of parks maintenance, recreation and elderly activities. The sections, of course, are administration and we have a number of facilities which do not quite fit into one of the divisions and they are the municipal golf course, the County Band, the zoo, our culture and arts program, the Hoolulu complex and aquatic section. The department operates and maintains about 140 facilities on about 1 , 100 acres of land which consists of about 50 neighborhood parts and playgrounds, 29 gymnasiums and recrea- tional centers, 28 beach parks , 7swim pools , a golf course, a zoo, an equestrian center, a drag strip, and 3 cemeteries. In other words , we go all the way from the cradle to the grave, literally. In addition, the department has jurisdiction over the 2 County Bands , the one in Hilo which is the Hawaii County Band, and the Hamakua Band in Honokaa, the culture and arts program and summer fun program. There are 170 full time regular positions auth- orized. The elderly activities division employs 20 exempt full time positions. These are primarily federally funded. You might call them contractural positions. In addition, there are 64 part-time regular and 12 part-time exempt workers; The Hawaii County Band and the Hamakua Band are staffed by 40 and 24, respectively. The summer fun program which runs for about seven weeks during the summer employs about 200 summer workers. -7- The current operating budget is close to $4, 000,000. Approximately $500,000 of this amount is federal program grants for senior citizen activities and to offset our cost to some extent. Our current userfee:rules and regulations derives about $250, 000 in revenues . Basically, that is the overview of the department. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Hakoda, do you have any recommendations as to the present Charter for revision or retention as it is? MR. HAKODA: Basically, nox The Charter makes very little reference to the department except that there should be a department and there should be a director. There are a number of ordinances that have been enacted after the Charter was adopted and, basically, we operate out of these ordinances. MR. TRULSON: In other words , the ordinances more control your operation than the Charter, itself? MR. HAKODA: It ' s more specific and it governs what we do in the department. MR. TRULSON: Thank you. MRS. KOBAYOSHI : Mr. Hakoda, since you folks work so much with the recreational needs of a community, are there any commissions, or committees , that provide input? There are commissions stated in the Charter. . . MR. HAKODA: Prior to the adoption of the Charter, there used to be what they called "district recreation commissions" made up of, I believe, three individuals in every district. The Charter removed this kind of a setup. We do, however, operate on the basis somewhat like the old system. We do work with community development associations in almost every district and whenever a project is started, in any district, we do work very closely with the recreational committee of that community association, or an ad hoc committee that is put together for that purpose. So the community does have direct input into all kinds of developments that we come in with. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Hakoda, you list here a number of exempt full time positions. Are they all covered under the federal program. . . MR. HAKODA: Generally speaking, the senior citizen activities are about, I would say, on an average of about 70% federally funded. There are certain programs like the recreation program which is 100% county funded. The others range from about 10% county to about 40% county. The 20 exempt positions are those positions funded through the matching funds. About 30% is county funding. Annually, - there is a grant made by the federal government for certain kinds of programs like -8- a nutrition program which is really a recreational program. We do provide recreation along with the nutrition program. That is why it is placed in the department. The senior volunteer program is another one. The people who staff these programs are under this federal program. There are only 3 people who are entirely county funded in that whole division. MR. SCHUTTE : In the Charter it provides the powers, duties and functions of the department existing at the effective date of the Charter shall continue and be exercised and performed by the department until changed or modified by ordinance. To the best of your knowledge, has there been any change or Codification? MR. HAKODA: There has been some organizational type changes. We 've added programs. We 've deleted certain programs. The ordinance that effects us most directly is 355 which delineated the powers and functions of the department and this was enacted in November, 1970, after the Charter came in. MR. SCHUTTE: Prior to that, nothing else has been changed , from that time until now. MR. HAKODA: Basically, it is the same program. Except that you have maybe one-fourth the staff doing it. MR. TRULSON: Mr. Hakoda, Section 6-3.1. Organization. There shall be a department of parks and recreation consisting of a parks and recreation director and the necessary staff. Do you feel you have the necessary staff at present? MR. HAKODA: This is a kind of loaded question. Let me answer it this way. Since I came onboard, two years ago, we've added about twenty-three new facilities. And these are significant additions like gymnasiums , swimming pools , a good number of neighborhood parks. The zoo is a new facility also. We 've added twenty-three new facilities and expanded maybe another half-dozen to more than double their size. We 've added about 300 acres to our responsibility. We added one regular staff. MR. TRULSON: So, "necessary staff" is open to interpretation as to what is necessary. MR. HAKODA: That is correct. MR. TRULSON: Have any guidelines ever been set as to what is necessary? What do they mean by "necessary"? MR. HAKODA: Generally, if you develop a facility like a swimming pool , you would need at least one person. If you open up a new gymnasium, you would need at least one person. We've done a great deal of innovating and reassignments and sharing of duties so that we are able to -9- cover, barely, the facilities we have. So, I must say, although I 'm patting myself_on the shoulder herr', our staff has become very efficient, otherwise we wouldn ' t be functioning today. MR. CADINHA: What kind of coordination is there between your department and the state? How do you work it out? MR. HAKODA: In what terms? MR. CADINHA: There are a lot of joint projects where the state may put the capital in, as I understand it, and put up a project or park, _or pool , or something that is manned by the county or this sort of thing. In the planning aspect, how do you people go about coordinating this? MR. HAKODA: There are several ways in which we coordinate. One is delegation. In other words , if there is, let ' s say, $200,000 appropriated for a swimming pool a school. In the case of Konawaena, which is a recently developed pool , the state delegates the $200,000 to the county and we come up with county funds. We solicit additional state funds and we coordinate with the school to develop the swimming pool. Once the pool is up, the general agreement between the school system and the county is that during school hours, they have priority use and after school and summers we come in and staff it. Many of our facilities are on school grounds and coordination, I must say, is very good with the schools. MR. CADINHA: You said the county puts up money. Is this part of the budget you mentioned? Or are these projects completely separate? MR. HAKODA: No, usually our capital funding comes from the state, primarily, and to some extent from the federal government through different development grants or acquisition grants. The county •_;CIp. . . in the past, since I 've been onboard the last three years , has been almost nil. MR. CADINHA: Mechanically speaking, the Councilmen, theoretically, represent the different districts and if there are any major complaints or gripes that come up through the council , how does it funnel through your office? Do you, . .how do you work with the council , in other words? I know you report to the administration but when gripes come from the other side, how do you handle it? MR. HAKODA: We would like to see it come through the mayor' s office. But, as you know, quite often it comes directly to us and if it is within our means we do make a correction or changes. But, I think the usual practice is that they refer to administration and then it comes down to us. -10- MR. SCHUTTE : Mr. Hakoda, in Section 6-3.4 County Bands. Do theycome directly under your department? MR. HAKODA: Administratively only. In other words , the bandmaster is considered as one of our key super- visory positions. He is appointed by the mayor. He comes under the direct supervision of the managing director according to the Charter but for administrative purposes he works out of my department. MR. SCHUTTE: He works under your department. So, he answers directly to the managing director. MR. HAKODA: On a day to day and budgeting,-- this kind of function , he reports to me. His budget is included in my departmental budget. By Charter he comes under the managing director. It is a funny kind of setup, but that is what it is. MR. SCHUTTE : Yes, that is why I 'm questioning it. He ' s appointed by the mayor but he answers to the managing director and he is put under your department. Talk about people having more than one master. . . . . MR. HAKODA: Yes , that is an example. MR. SCHUTTE : In turn , he hires all of the band people? MR. HAKODA: He is given the power to appoint bandmembers and to fire bandmembers. MR. SCHUTTE : But then he has to get approval from the managing director to fire them, according to the Charter. MR. HAKODA: Technically speaking, yes. MR. SCHUTTE : How do you think this works? Have you had any problems with this? MR. HAKODA: No, we haven ' t had any problems. He attends all of my staff meetings. We discuss the budget. He discusses every hire that he takes on or every separation that takes place with me. The setup is kind of odd but in working, in actual day to day function , it is no problem as far as I can see. MR. SCHUTTE : It just happens that yoUr department does all the paperwork, does all the administrative work for the bandmaster, though. MR. HAKODA: That is right. The payroll , everything else. MR. SCHUTTE : No say, though, whatsoever over the bandmaster. -11- MR. HAKODA: I wouldn ' t say, no say, because administratively, he comes under my supervision. MR. SCHUTTE : But the thing is , it doesn ' t specifically spell this out in the Charter, though. MR. HAKODA: No, it just says adminstratively he is under the department. MR. SCHUTTE: Would you like to see this changed? MR. HAKODA: It ' s not that important, no. MR. SCHUTTE : There hasn ' t been any time where there has been a problem? Or there could be a problem. MR. HAKODA: No. There could be.. - MR. SCHUTTE : That was kind of loaded in the way I said that. Let ' s put it this way. Would it be bene- ficial to change? MR. HAKODA: It would make it a simpler kind of organization, I think. MR. SCHUTTE: Thank you. MR. SENSANO: Mr. Hakoda, the user fee applies to what type of department recreation facilities? MR. HAKODA: There are certain basic conditions that have to exist _befiore we apply the user fee policy. Generally speaking, while they apply to all of our facilities , depending on the kind of use when an individual or a group wants exclusive use of a facility. In other words , they reserve the place and nobody else can use it for a certain period. Then usually there is a fee attached to it. This can apply to picnic pavilions;: Can be gymnasiums. Can be ball fields. swimming pools. Whatever. And what we did was to set down certain conditions under which a user fee would apply. The basic consideration is whether it is exclusive use. Our user fee would apply if any group uses a county facility for fund raising purposes. It may be a bazaar or some kind of sale. Or a tournament where they charge admission. Generally, if a public facility is going to be used for fund raising purposes , there is a fee involved. The user' s fee is not only the charging of certain rental fees but we have imposed relatively heavy security deposits because we were finding that whenever there is a carnival in the bay front, for example:;. on Monday morning I would have to send six people down there all day to clean up. There is a $200 deposit, now, that we impose and the group cleans up after the use and this $200 is then refunded. What it is doing is to cut down on our maintenance costs quite a bit. Those are the basic considerations in the user fee. -12- MR. SENSANO: I have one more question. This doesn 't pertain directly to the Charter but has something to do with operation. I notice at night, sometimes , when I pass by Lincoln Park the lights for the tennis courts are on but it is raining. Can you explain how the lights are controlled? MR. HAKODA: It is by time. It is timed to go on at, I think , 6: 30. . .no, it doesn ' t go on unless somebody throws the switch. So early in the evening somebody may throw the switch and it is timed to go off at 10: 00 p.m. The alternative to that is for me to send somebody to turn it off. But it is more costly than to leave it on automatic timer. Our eventual plan, the most ideal, would be to meter all of those lights. We haven ' t been able to develop, though, the start up costs to install meters. MR. ISHIDA: Mr. Hakoda, on this County Band, I think that there are two bandmasters now? MR. HAKODA: There is one bandmaster and there is. . .well , I guess you 'd call the Hamakua, he ' s a bandmaster, too. MR. ISHIDA: So as far as your department just handles the administrative part of the band, your depart- ment, in this case, would not determine how many County Bands there are or there is to be. MR. HAKODA: No. Incidentally, the only regular position is the bandmaster for the Hawaii County Band. The Hamakua bandmaster is a part-time position like any other bandmember. They get paid a flat sum every month and they are expected to perform x number of times per month. They are not even considered part-time employees. MR. ISHIDA: But that, as far as that policy decision is not your _kuleana . . .is that correct? MR. HAKODA: I wouldn 't be able to say come up with a Kona County Band, for example. MR. ISHIDA: The regulations that you. . .that the bandmaster must follow, does your department adopt these regulations? MR. HAKODA: The user ' s fee applies to the County Band, also. These are rules and regulations that we developin the department. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Hakoda, who makes sure that the band people perform? In other words , if it doesn ' t directly come under you other than administratively who are they responsible to? Do they go directly to the managing director? Does he make sure that they perform as they are supposed to? But who enforces the status of their employment? -13- MR. HAKODA: The bandmaster. MR. SCHUTTE: Then who watches him? MR. HAKODA: I supervise him. MR. SCHUTTE: You supervise him. So, actually he does come under you, then. MR. HAKODA: Yes, administratively. He has to make sure that they show up for rehearsals , for performances and if there is any problem then it comes to me. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: We'd like to thank Mr. Hakoda for his testimony. PUBLIC Introduction was made of Mr. Edward Harada, WORKS: Chief Engineer of the Department of Public Works, who presented the Commission with -his; prepared' description of the department. MR. HARADA: Mr. Chairman, I have a handout that is somewhat lengthy and I 'm not here to read it all tonight. It is primarily organizational in structure. So, if I may be permitted, I 'd like to summarize what is in the handout. In terms of organization, the department is made up of 6 Divisions. The work of the 6 Divisions are coordinated by myself and a deputy chief engineer. Briefly, the 6 Divisions are these. We have first, a Bureau of Plans and Surveys and they number about 30 employees. The Division 'of Plans and Surveys is primarily responsible to coordinate the roads and drainage and that type of project. Subdivision approval. Subdivision inspection. Floodcontrol. Surveys. That type of activities. All of these Divisions, by the way, are headed by a registered professional engineer except the Division of Automotive Equipment and Motor Pool. We have also a Bureau of Building Construction and Inspection. This Division numbers approximately 50 people. The 50 people are made up of different types of employees..:-= i' Professionals aswell as repairs and maintenance tradesmen. This Bureau . is,;. respo_nsible for construction and inspection of all public facilities which includes those facilities under Mr. Hakoda, the Fire Department, the Police Department. They also are responsible to inspect private construction through the building permit process. They also repair and maintain the various public buildings that are existing, such as fire stations and police stations. Thirdly, we have the Bureau of Sewers and Sanitation. This Division ' s responsibilities are two-fold. -14- They take care of the sewage treatment plants that are located in the county. We have two in West Hawaii and two in East Hawaii. And the various solid waste disposal facilities. These are made up of transfer stations and sanitary landfills. We have different systems for the 6 districts within the County of Hawaii. Fourth, we have the Bureau of Road Construction and Maintenance. This Division is the largest. We have approximately 140 individuals here. This Division is respon- sible for the repair and maintenance, primarily, of the 900 miles of roads that are under the county' s jurisdiction. These 900 miles of roads come in various different conditions. Some are paved, some are gravel , some are unpaved. Number five, we have the Division of Traffic Safety and Control. Some 15 employees. This Division ' s functions include the installation and maintenance of traffic lights, street lights, parking area lights. Also they are charged with the maintenance and operation of parking meters. Lastly is the Division of Automotive Equipment and Motor Pool. This is a service division for all the departments in the Division as well as the county in which they repair and maintain the various pieces of equipment that are under the county inventory. There are also 4 councils, or boards , under the supervision of the department. First we have the highway safety council which is an advisory committee to the mayor on matters relating to highway safety. We have the board of appeals which acts on variance requests from the building, plumbing or electrical code. We have the housing advisory and appeals board to control substandard buildings. The fourth board is the grading board of appeals to hear appeals from the enforcement of the grading ordinance. The department ' s budget, currently, is about $9 million dollars a year and the fund sources for the $9 million dollars is broken up into five different areas . One, we have some revenues from the general fund, which is from the general revenues , which is property taxes. And we have four special funds. First, we have the highway fund which is made up of revenues from the fuel taxes and weight taxes. And the revenues from this go towards repair and maintenance of the 900 miles of roads that wehave in the county. We have the motor pool revolving fund which is financed by rental rates that are paid for the use of these various equipments that are under the county inventory. The parking meter fund which are revenues from feeding the meter and fifth, we have the sewer fund which is made up of revenues from sewer collections, sewer user charges. So, altogether, the total departmental staffing totals totals some 300 employees with a budget of about` $9 million ' dollars. Organizationally, that ' s about it. I have- included -15- in the back of ` his submittal, the functional and organizational table of organizations that you Might want to refer to at your own leisure. In terms of recommendation, I have one, very minor one. One that I have desired over a period of time. My position is described in the Charter as Chief Engineer and if you' ll note that all of the other departments in the county such as the Parks and Recreation Director, Finance Director, are all called "Director". Planning Director, R & D Director. And also most of the public works heads in the other counties, except Kauai , are called Director also. So, if it is possible, I would like for you to consider possibly a change in the terminology of my position from that of Chief Engineer to Director. It is a minor one but if you can consider it. There are also other areas that I would like to comment on. I have not had the chance to review the other sections of the Charter. Primarily, those that deal with the capital improvement funding and expenditure that fall within the privy of the Planning Department and the Finance Department. Our department coordinates most of the CIP projects as far as implementation and we have had some, not problems, but concern about the duration of the funding before they lapse and some of the other conditions that are imposed by Charter that effect capital improvements. So, if I may, Mr. Chairman , at some later time if I may have the opportunity of .submitting comments in those areas. So, very briefly, that is what the department is all about. I ' ll be very happy to answer any questions that you may have. MR. CADINHA: Can you give us some idea about these CIP problems, now? MR. HARADA: The state and the county work under different procedures as far as lapsing and expenditure of CIP appropriations. One suggestion has been that we be consistent with the state procedure. I think the basic difference is that that portion that deals with the period in which the funds are alive and what needs to be done to keep the funds active. In other words, what do we need to do so that the funds do not lapse. Ithink this is a discussion that perhaps should be held with the Finance Director when he covers his area. But because we are the expending agency as far as we are in money spent, we have found ourselves from time to time in a situation where because of various conditions of preparing SMA or ERS documents that it takes a longer period of time before the funds can be actually implemented for construction. This being the case, then perhaps there should be some consid- eration for keeping the funds alive for a longer period of time because of these considerations. MR. CADINHA: How could the Charter accomplish that? -16- MR. HARADA: If I am not mistaken, there is a section in the Charter that deals with this. I was just glancing over this before I came here, Mr. Cadinha, so I 'm not that familiar with what changes need to be made. My quick review before this meeting prompted me to make the statement that I would like to come back. MR. CADINHA: I have one more question. You sit on the Planning Commission and the Water Commission. Is that correct? MR. HARADA: As ex officio member. Rigeit. MR. CADINHA: What is, theoretically, your function there? MR. HARADA: As ex officio member, I do not have the right to vote and consequently, I view my attendance on those boards as one of advisory more than decision making in a true sense. I think that rule is a necessary one. That of being a member of the Planning and , Water Commissions. As an added note, I recall that other Commissions, especially the one in the City and County of Honolulu, some members of the administration who sit on these boards like the Director of Public Works would sit on the Water Commission. He does have a vote. Whether that is good or not, I 'm not that sure. I haven 't put that much thought into it. Primarily, our responsibility in , sitting on these board is to advise the total group in matters that relate to the Public Works Department and their coming up with the decision. MR. CADINHA: You are actually implementing whatever comes out of those two functions, right? MR. HARADA: That is correct. Either through myselfor a representative. MR. CADINHA: Has the coordination between Planning and Watenbeen good? Are there coordination problems? MR. HARADA: Nothing magnificient. The - usual ones that occur in any organization, but nothing that really affects our operation. MR. CADINHA: In other words, you don ' t see any problem at all with the status quo of having the Water Department completely semi-autonomous? That is what I 'm asking. As the Chief Engineer, how do you view this thing? MR. HARADA: My personal view is this. Because the Water Department functions as a Commission, under a commission form of government and with that goes a great degree of independence and the Charter so states , that this semi-autonomy may lead from time to time with a lack of coordination with the total county program. All the other departments fall under the mayor so we have direct -17- day to day communication with the mayor. I believe under the provision of the Charter if the Water Department through the Water Commission wishes, they may elect not necessarily to follow the general program that the county has established. I haven 't seen that happen, thus far, but the possibility does exist. Generally speaking, I would venture to say that in terms of coordination, perhaps there should be a very deep study by this Charter Commission as to the status of the Water Commission and the Water Department in terms of its effectiveness in coordinating its program with the county program. Certainly, I think that in certain cases there are advantages to the county, if this is done. MR. CADINHA: Thank you, Mr. Harada. MR. TRULSON: Sir, I notice your department is funded through five separate sources. Just for my own clarification, I would somehow tend to put, outside of the funding part, the sewer with the water. Why is it separated? Why is the sewer in the Public Works and not in the Water? MR. HARADA: Primarily, I think the structure is dIctated by the Charter, itself. There has been discussion from time to time. There I been attempts by the State Legislature, for that matter, to marry the sewer and water activity. This was tried some years ago by the City and County of Honolulu and I think it was overturned by the action of the City Council, at that time. Certainly, there are certain merits that go with putting sewer under water. Because of that certain activities are at the present time being coordinated with water. For example, the sewer billings are processed through the Water Department because they have the capacity to do so. There has been discussion, in the past, that the 'activity:'should be further pursued by having the Water Department take over the whole sewer billing-collection operation. There have been problems currently with the collection and billing because they bill and we collect. In terms of properly aging the billing, for example, that there have been some difficulties. Which, I think, would be improved by putting it under one structure. MR. TRULSON: It wouldn ' t be a question of coordinating one with the other if it were under one. MR. HARADA: That is right. And one other advantage that we looked at is that when a person doesn ' t pay his sewer bill there isn ' t very much we can do about it. We can ' t turn his sewer off. But, in-:;the event that the sewer and water billings are put together conjunctively if a guy doesn ' t pay his sewer bill , you turn off his water. This may sound kind of crazy but that is how the City and County of Honolulu operates. It is all under one operation and the rules acid regulations of the Water Division gives them the authority to turn the water off in case the sewer billings are not paid. -18- MR. TRULSON: Thank you. MR. CADINHA: Mr. Harada, let ' s say we put the water function under your department if arbitrarily we come up with that decision. Would your span of control be broad enough to accomodate that function? MR. HARADA: If the water activity was made a division under Public Works , would my span of authority be broad enough. . . MR. CADINHA: Span of control . . .could you actively administer to those many different functions? MR. HARADA: I think so. Water really is just another type of engineering activity such as sewer, roads and drainage. It might be somewhat more involved because there are separate charges made for its use and currently the Water Department conducts its operation under its own revenues. We also have special funds like sewer revenues to take care of our sewer operation. So it would not be something new that would be imposed on the department. MR. ISHIDA: Mr. Harada, this board that you u Appeals, Housing Authority,mentioned, Board of Appe , g y, what authority created these? MR. HARADA: By ordinances. MR. ISHIDA: One question. There is a general provision in the Charter that says the powers and duties of this department shall be prescribed by ordinance. Although you are under the managing director. It just comes to my mind that there is an ambiguity as to what your duties are or what your functions are. Who is to resolve this ambiguity. Let ' s say, and I should have asked the same question to Mr. Hakoda, let ' s say there is an ambiguity between the functions as defined in the ordinance as to Parks and Rec and Public Works. Now, who would be the party to solve the ambiguity? MR. HARADA: Ambiguity in terms of the law, itself, or. . . MR. ISHIDA: No, as to what functions or what your duties may be. MR. HARADA: It is pretty well defined by ordinance. I don 't recall what our ordinance number is but the ordinance, itself, spells out quite clearly what our responsibilities are in the different areas of Public Works. Perhaps if you can set an example of this ambiguity. • MR. ISHIDA: Has there been any occasion whereby you, as the Chief Engineer, have determined that a certain function , a certain work that you were requested to do you determined that it did not fall under your authority but felt it may have to fall under another department and that the other corresponding department may have said the same thing? -19- Have you had any occasions of that sort? MR. HARADA: No, I don ' t recall. But if that instance did occur, _I would imagine that if it were a difference between Parks and Recreation and myself the arbiter would be the managing director since we fall under his jurisdiction. But, I don ' t recall of that happening, thus far. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Harada, you mentioned a few things back here in regards to the Department of Water Supply. One of them being that you sit on the Commission but that you have no voting power at all. MR. HARADA: That ' s right. MR. SCHUTTE: What then is your function if your cannot vote? Is it just in an advisory capacity that you sit on this Commission? MR. HARADA: That is primarily it. We advise the Commission in our area of interest. If they have any questions that relate to what we do. We can also suggest things. It ' s not that we are not party to any of the discussions. We can participate. The only thing is we cannot vote at the end. MR. SCHUTTE: Do you find this to be rather detrimental to your being on that particular Commission? In other words , if you are going to put in input, I would assume that you should have some authority or some power of voting. Do you find that this could be a problem at times? MR. HARADA: Well, there have been times that I wish that I could have voted, certainly. There might be a possibility of some conflict if I voted on some matter did effect or have beneficial impact, say, on my department. It could be construed that I am favoring myself. There are certain things that are related to Water and Public Works activities. I haven 't seen my function on the Commission being hampered by the fact that I am not able to vote. MR. SCHUTTE: When you say that, isn? t all of these functions or all of these departments , don ' t they have one final end and that is serving the public? In the end result, anyway. Why should they feel that you may be pushing something off into your department for the benefit of your department at the expense of the Water Board. Actually, they all contribute to the same end. MR. HARADA: If the question that is being asked were do I prefer being or not being a voting member. I would prefer being a voting member. -20- MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Cadinha mentioned the possibility of the Department of Water Supply being under your department if you would be in a position to handle that. Would you want to voice any opinion on that or do you think it should be that semi-autonomous should be taken away from the Department of Water Supply? MR. HARADA: I think it can be handled a number of ways. It can taintain a status quo. It can be made a separate department within the county. Not necessarily under Public Works but having its own label, Department of Water. But falling under the direct supervision of the mayor or it can be made a division within Public Works as Mr. Cadinha suggested . The other option, also, is that if wewere trading things , the suggestion that perhaps sewer should be with water and continue water under either the present structure or as a department. I think all of these combi- nations should be reviewed very carefully and if the questions that are being posed to me are such that it implies my take- over of water then as my response, earlier, would be that I think it could be accomodated within the present structure of the department. MR. SCHUTTE: From what I can gather here, it does come under certain aspects of the Department of Public Works anyway. You sit on the Commission mainly because they need your input to the Water Commission and I would assume that, to some degree it is possible to marry the two depart- ments. MR. HARADA: I think so, because, basically, both activities are engineering related and they do the surveys and engineering and construction and inspection similar to any other project that we do. MR. CADINHA: Mr. Harada, if the marriage does take place. Either through the semi-autonomous body or back into the county, do you see any economies coming as a result? Do you see any monetary savings? I know this is off the top of your head but could you see efficiencies put in? MR. HARADA: There might be. I see one, for example, where there would be centralized purchasing. Right now, I understand , they have their own purchasing agent, for example. And certain items are purchased through that department. All others go through the centralized purchasing through the Finance Department. With some consolidation. They either being a department of the county or otherwise. Perhaps that one area could be streamlined somewhat. In terms of cost savings, I 'm not that familiar with that that I could respond very accurately. I think that the primary advantage would be one of coordination. -21- MR. SCHUTTE: Because it is a part of engineering, or another type of engineering. I 'm speaking of Water and the Department of Public Works. Is the complexity of the Department of Water Supply such that it would almost need a full time operation by itself? In other words, if this division was put under the Department of Public Works under a separate department, is it such in its complexities that it needs to operate in that capacity? MR. HARADA: If it were made a division of Public Works, would it because of the complexities , have to stand by itself. Is that what you are asking? MR. SCHUTTE: That ' s right. MR. HARADA: Not necessarily. I would, if I. had my choice, I think. . .and the choice would be whether they would be a division or a separate department. . .which changes it from its present status, I would op, I think, to having them be a separate department. MR. SCHUTTE: As it is now? Or just a separate department under the mayor. MR. HARADA: A separate department under the mayor. MR. CADINHA: Mr. Harada, I appreciate your frank answers here and we are not attempting to have you nail anybody but would it help or is there any special reason for you to report to the managing director? Or, practically speaking, do you go through that office or do you go directly to the mayor? MR. HARADA: On most issues we go through the managing director. Through the procedure that is out- lined in the Charter. There are situations where we go directly to the mayor to get a fast response, for example. Or on a very critical issue that needs a response at that moment. But, primarily, I don 't see any problems in managing under the structure that we have under the Charter. MR. CADINHA: Thank you. MR. OMONAKA: You have requested a minor change made. Changing the Chief Engineer title to Director. Your department is very. . .requires very skilled professional people. Now, if you do have the title of Chief Engineer, this would compel the mayor to appoint qualified persons in your department so wouldn ' t it be better if this is left as it is? MR. HARADA: Well, the Charter requirement that requires that this person be a registered professional engineer, I think, should still hold. Perhaps the solution based on your response would be like they have in the City and County of Honolulu where the head of the Public Works -22- Department is titled, Director and Chief Engineer. But I think as long as it is qualified in the Charter that the person who heads this department must be a professional engineer it should satisfy that concern. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Then would you change, Mr. Harada, in terms of terminology under 6-2.2 from the Chief Engineer, here, to Director? Right? MR. HARADA: Right. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: And if we go down to 6-2. 2 it indicates the Chief Engineer, but do you want the change right here that, Director shall be appointed and must be a registered professional engineer? MR. HARADA: Yes. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: So you want two areas changed in 6-2.2. MR. HARADA: Yes, that is right. The same position. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Any other questions? Anything else? MRS. IWAMOTO: I 'm not sure about this. I was just reading through and it says you shall be appointed by the mayor and removed by the mayor and the next sentence is, he shall be a registered professional engineer. This is just a question that I want to find out. Then as I was reading about the manager for the Department of Water Supply the manager shall be a registered engineer. Now what is the difference between a registered professional engineer and a registered engineer? MR. HARADA: It is exactly the same thing. Wepresume that when we become registered then it automatically makes us professional. It should be consistent, though. It shouldn ' t be different. The requirement should be the same for both the manager and my position. I like the word "professional". CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Any other questions? We'd like to thank you, Mr. Harada, and we will consider your request for further testimony; RECESS: 4:51.p:.rid'.-it was moved, seconded and carried that a recess be taken. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 5 : 04 p.m. with all members present. -23- PLANNING Introduction was made of Mr. Sidney Fuke, DEPT: Director of the Planning Department, who presented the Commission with'his, prepared_ statement. MR. FUKE: Thank you, very much, Mr. Chairman. I have passed out a prepared statement and with the Chairman 's indulgence, I 'd like to read through it...Thank you for giving me this opportunity to express my thoughts regarding possible changes to the County Charter. I would initially like to commend all of you for taking the time out of your very busy schedule to assume this monumental task. In the course of your review, please feel free to call upon my office for any help or comments, particularly as they may relate to the planning functions of this County. For today' s presentation, I would like to breifly familiarize all of you with the basic functions and organization of the Planning Department. I regret to say, however, that I am not prepared to offer any substantive changes to the charter at this point in time. I would, nevertheless, appreciate an opportunity to present you with my thoughts in a few weeks and at your convenience. The Planning Department, unlike most departments, has both regulatory and staff functions. The department handles regulatory functions such as the processing of building permits, subdivisions , and other land development permits. In addition, it also provides staff support to the Mayor and the County Council , especially in relation to County policies. These regulatory and staff functions are identified not only through County ordinances and regulations but also by State Statutes. For example, we are responsible for administering the zoning and subdivision ordinances, ordinances which are purely County initiated. On the other hand, certain regulatory functions such as the Shoreline Management Area permit or other Staff fundtions like the State Plan, State Transportation Council and so forth are mandated by State Legislation. As a result, our organization has had to go through several reorganizations over the last ten years. The department had 8 civil servants , plus 2 appointed positions in 1968. By 1972 , the department had grown to a staff of 21 , which included 18 civil servants and 3 appointed positions. No additional positions have been created since then. While the functions of the office have increased over the past few years, we have strived to internally reorganize ourselves to better deliver our services, given the limited manpower. Additionally, we constantly sought external or non- County funds to provide some of the relief. As a result and after much discussion, a major reorganization of the office was approved by the County Council, and that organization is only 6 days old. It went into effect February 1 , 1979. -24- You will note that in this reorganization ( see attached) , there are 21 authorized positions. We also have reflected 2 positions created under the Federal Coastal Zone Management (CZM) Program; 4 CETA positions ; and 1 position funded under the Housing Development program admini- stered by the Mayor's office. That chart has since been revised to reflect an additional CZM position. Presently, there are 4 civil servant vacancies. In sum, we have 29 positions , of which 5 are vacant. I have also attached for your convenience a copy of the department ' s functional organization chart. The functions of each division are clearly outlined therein. Additionally, to further clarify some of this office ' s legal responsibilities , I have attached a copy of the specific functions--both regulatory and staff. As expressed earlier, I would like to still provide you with my comments regarding the substantive aspects of the planning functions of this County as spelled out in the Charter. There are areat, for example, such as the necessity of Council confirmation; relationship with other agencies ; and so forth which demand your careful thought and considera- tion. As soon as I am prepared , I would appreciate an opportunity to again testify before you. Again, thank you for this testifying oppor- tunity, and please feel free to avail yourselves to any services we may be able to provide you with in the course of your evaluation of the Charter. . . . Mr. Chairman, I am prepared to answer any questions as it relates to. the current organization of the office and as indicated in my written testimony, I feel very strongly that I 'd like to provide advice to the County Charter Commission but in order for advice to be meaningful, it has got to be well thought out and my problem is that I wasp -made aware of my presentation only a few days ago. So I really didn ' t get a chance to digest a lot of the Charter require- ments and coming forth with anything concrete at this point in time. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Fuke, you mention here one possible change which you would like to see happen. It says here there are areas , for example, such as the necessity of Council confirmation; relationship with other agencies ; and so forth which demand your careful thought and consideration. Do you want to relate to us a little bit more about that? MR. FUKE: All I 'm saying in that particular paragraph is that there will always be certain critical areas that our office, in the past, and currently have gotten engaged in. One of them deals with the whole issue of whether the Council should confirm this position. There are other questions which have been raised in relations to ,the functions between our office and the Research and Development Department. -25- There are also functions, for example, like our transportation planning and which agency should be responsible in handling this. Whether it should be the Planning or the Public Works Department. There are many issues and what I would like to do is to reserve some time to study these issues in the total context of the administrative structure and then come forth with my comments and recommendations to the County Charter Commission. At this point in time, I have some preliminary feelings but, again, for the advice to be mean- inful in something as major an undertaking as this , I think that I would like to reserve some time to think about it. MR. SCHUTTE: You mean to say, Mr. Fuke, that ,after being in this department for how many years? MR. FUKE: Officially, as a Planning Director as of May, 1977. So just approaching 2 years. MR. SCHUTTE: Prior to that you were with the department? MR. FUKE: That is correct. MR. SCHUTTE: And you know of nothing that you could come up with now after having worked under this Charter provision for that long? MR. FUKE: No, no. There are, you know, certain areas within the Charter which provide some. . .I think which is in need of certain kind of editorial or cleaning up. There is no question about that but I think that what I would want to do is not only address myself to the specific respon- sibilities that are currently assigned to the office, but I think we have to. . . .I feel, anyway, for the Charter Commission to evaluate the functions of only our office would be. . .well , would not really be the best way of evaluating the entire planning and implementation function of the thing. We would have to evaluate in total , in context, the other agencies. Particularly, the Research and Development. The Public Works Department and of course, our office. We all have overlapping kinds of functions. Maybe it could be greater_ centralized or continued in the same pattern. There has also been, like over the last:year or so a considerable amount of changing in terms of how certain kinds of, how the Planning Commission actions are handled. Increasingly, the Commission 's actions have assumed what is called a contested case procedure, whereby a guy applying for a variance or applying for a rezoning action, the setting before the Planning Commission approach is almost like a courtroom setting where you would have advocate as well as those guys against the petition coming forth in the same testimony and all that stuff. And I think that these -26- were not properly acknowledged in the initial Charter back in 1968. But, I don ' t think it is any fault of the Charter and it is more in relation to the current trend of judicial decisions that have come down in the last few years which have required the the Commission to take more of a_=:quasi- judicial fashion. Again, I 'd like to come before the Commission and recommend specific areas of changes. I feel that there are some areas that need to be changed. There is no question about that. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman, I 'd like to recommend at this particular time, because of this situation that we reschedule. . .how long would it take for you to come up with some suggestions? MR. FUKE : I guess before the end of the month. See, what I would want to do is separate those areas that need an editorial cleaning up just to make things a little bit clearer. I can give you just as a case in point . . . MR. SCHUTTE: Excuse me, Mr. Fuke. Mr. Chair- man , I would like to give Mr. Fuke the option of preparing himself in relation to the County Charter and how the Department of Planning is placed within it. Can we schedule him, Mr. Omonaka? For another date prior to us going on the road? MR. OMONAKA: Sure, I don ' t see any problem. However, in the case of Mr. Fuke, if we are going to be discussing the Research and Development and the Public Works Department, maybe we should have those people present. Maybe they would have some thoughts on what you have to say. MR. FUKE: Quite possibly. This is just an off the cuff remark but what I was referring to is take, for example, the Research and Development functions. Their office currently handles certain kinds of research activities that our office in the process of working with the Commission must also handle. There becomes the concern that perhaps there should be a consolidations in greater amount, or a continu- ation of this same kind of pattern. Certain kinds of edit- orial comments , for example, in the Planning Commission they were given the role of recommending boundary amendments to the State Land Use Commission. But the law has since changed. Which currently totally eliminates _the Planning Commission from the Land Use Commission boundary actions. And so these are the kind of editorial changes that still should be made. So, I would think that, particulary, the Research and Development and Public Works Departments should also be involved in this as part of your overall review. -27- MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Omonaka, you say you can set these three other departments up on your calendar for another date so we can get both. . .all of them together. It, appears that we 've had Research and Economic Development here today. We've had the Public Works. We've had the Chief Engineer. The Parks Director. The whole bit but it appears that there is nocoordinating but a lack of communications between the various departments. And if you talk to one they feel it 's. . .everything is status quo. You talk to another and it ' s status quo. And now we come to the Planning Department and we find all kinds of des- crepancies. Such as one not being able to. . .or disagreeing with the particular phase of the responsibilities of each department as it relates to the Planning Commission. We look at the Planning Commission as it shows here on the Charter and we can ' t envision the types of problems that you are suggesting. And if there are these kind of problems now is the time to weed it out and get down tothe brass tacks of how it should be handled and what should be done and what the responsibilities are, if it is not spelling out the program properly. I don ' t mean to cut you short on your presentation, today, I just want to give you an opportunity. It appears that you have some very important things that you want to present and if given the proper time would be able to put this into perspective and give us an overall view of how this effects the Llanning Commission. MR. FUKE: As far the tI ►ingw±se is , yes , I think it would help. In my statements I did not want to at all suggest that there are functional problems in the current arrangement. What I wanted to point out is that are areas',"'ghat. . . MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Fuke, you have already expressed that position and I don 't want you to feel that you are going to be behind the eight ball . It is something that we want to know about. I 'm glad you brought it up. Let 's put it that way. All we want to do is give you the opportunity to show us. Like I say, we talked to these other departments and everything is status quo. Then we come down to the Planning Department where everything is supposed to centralize on we find there areproblems. So this is good. Is there any particular date that would be good for you? MR. TRULSON: Mr. Chairman, I was just looking at the calendar and also the list that the mayor submitted when their Cabinet Meetings are out in the country. It looks like there are only two days available. February 27 or March 6, before we go on the road. -28- MR. FUKE: I 'd like to suggest staying away from February. 27 because I have a presentation beforethe Water Commission that day. On the 20th, again, I have a State Policy Meeting in Honolulu on the 20th. Then on the 21st and 22nd we have Planning Commission Meetings. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Fuke, you tell us when. MR. FUKE: I know March 6 is okay if it falls on a Tuesday. MR. SCHUTTE: All of these meetings will fall on a Tuesday. I presume that this will give you enough time to put this together. MR. FUKE: I would like to also put it in writing so that it can assist the Commission in evaluating. MR. SCHUTTE: I appreciate that. MR. OMONAKA.: Would it be_possible to havea copy of your report-made available in advance to the Research and Development as well as the Public Works prior to March 6? So that if we come here and you have certain positions with regards to. . . MR. FUKE: I 'd like to give this assurance that prior to my preparing any statement, I still would have to sit down with both of those agencies and then come forth with something. MR. CADINHA: Would you mind a few questions, at this time? I 'm not interested in a schooled answer per se. I 'd like to know off the top of your head if we touch upon a problem area that has been an operational problem. We are looking as to whether the function of government :as =the _:Charter lays out, works. That is the main concern and we are not attempting to step on toes. We 've gone through the 'crater function and the mayor and the chief engineer with respect to the semi- autonomous state of the Water Board. Now, you sit on the Water Commission as a non-voting member. In your job as a planner, is the Water Department as a separate functioning authority a cumbersome setup? Would it help if it were under the administration? Or do you think it should remain semi- autonomous? Is there any detriment to your planning function the way it is set up? MR. FUKE: In terms of the planning function my gut reactionA.would be, coordination would be enhanced if it were all under one administration. MR. CADINHA: How about your voting capability on that Commissionv . .If the status quo were to continue? In other words, if the Water Department was kept as a semi- autonomous body would it help you in the planning function to be able to vote? Or does it. .does your not being able to vote matter on the Water Department? -29- MR. FUKE: Being able to not only participate but to be able to exercise that participation by voting, I think would enhance the coordination, also. In the absence of having it all under a centralized administration. MR. CADINHA: Thank you. MR. ISHIDA: Mr. Fuke, in your presentation, if it is at all possible, if you could cover two areas that I am personally interested in whether you have any feelings concerning the planning of variances. Should it remain with the Planning Commission or should it be delegated to the descretion of the department head? And also the necessity of retaining the Board of appeals. Both theoretically and practically speaking. MR. FUKE: I have every intention of addressing that question. Thank you. MR. ISHIDA: Also, another thing. You mentioned the Department of Research and Development and Public Works. Would not the Department of Water Supply be involved in. . .be affected by your presentation? MR. FUKE: Well , again, if I can use another analogy. It is just like the environmental impact statement to what extent does our office affect. .or does a project affect something that happens maybe fifty or bne hundred miles away. I think when you look at the planning offices function, it is kind of like the central nervous system for the entire countys operation from the administrative end. And so to that extent our office touches upon each and every activity or agency that the county has whether it relates to Finance, the Parks Department, because we do get involved in -terms of recommending to the mayor and the council the capital improve- ment expenditures and so we have to have some semblance of appreciation of the county' s fiscal posture. The Water Department, very definitely, inasmuch as the intrastructural needs for development primarily in roads and water and sewage system. Those agencies would have to get involved. What I am saying is that you can make an argument for all agencies to be =involved. But I guess that in response to Mr. Schutte ' s question , I was primarily pointing out to the transportation planning functions, the functions of the R & D, I 'm quite sure that no department would escape probably the influence of our office or vice versa. MR. ISHIDA: Then I take it as far as you are concerned, it is the R & D and Public Works Departments that would be most affected by what you think your presentation would be. MR. FUKE: I think at this point in time, again, I guess I 'm only reacting to the questions that are asked but I don 't know if it might be too much for my office, right now, at this point in time, to evaluate the Charter. Particularly in relation to the executive branch in total. It might be too -30- much of a chunk to chew, at this point in time. I would prefer kind of looking at our primary functions and from there look out at what the other agencies are doing and how we interact and trying to see what we can do in terms of further streamlining the process. Whether we accept more or relinquish certain functions to other agencies. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Fuke, would you suggest then that we are looking at March 6 and we would like to invite the Research and Development and Public Works and the Water Board. Would you be able to prepare whatever you have in mind and also give them the opportunity to look at it? MR. FUKE: Yes, I would be prepared to come forth with what I believe our function should be. MR. SCHUTTE: That 's all we ask. We intend to invite these other departments here merely because there is something. . .there is .a lot we don 't understand. If you could give them a copy, each department. That would be the Department of Water Works. The Water Board, excuse me. PubUceWorks and Research and Development. It seems that this comes in line with their department and let them have the opportunity. . .and I don 't mean give it to them the day before we meet but give them sufficient time to answer these various things. It is not a witch hunt that we are after. What we want to do is find out some basic facts and information that could better this position so that you have a. clean-cut rule as to what you are allowed. . .are permitted, to do under this Charter. Likewise, with the other departments. Our only intention is this. MR. FUKE: I understand. MR. CADINHA: Mr. Chairman , just a point of interest and discussion if anybody. . .I 'm wondering whether. . .Gloria just mentioned, gee the 'mayor should be onboard. I wonder if we should have a general free for all day where everyone can come in here and say their piece because we 've had pertaining especially to this water function we 've had the mayor testify, the planning director testify, the chief engineer testify and the water department with different bottom lines. As to where it ought to be functionally in government. It would help me make up my mind if they were all here to argue specifically their point. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: You know, in all ' he other areas like the Department of Water Supply and the Department of Liquor Control and the Police Department and so on, we have a section on the administrative supervision where they come under the direct supervision of the mayor. We come to the Department of Land in here, there is no section that tells anything about administrative supervision. It does but it doesn ' t come out black and white like the others, you know. -31- MR. OMONOKA: Can I suggest that we allow Mr. Fuke to come back andshould we have any questions regarding his proposals then we can call the different departments if we so desire, rather than have them come in. Would this approach be much better? We 've heard them once and Mr. Fuke isn 't quite prepared so he' ll be making a pre-' pared presentation the next go round. Once we hear him out then should we have any question regarding the other agencies that he touches upon we ask them to come back if we have any questions. Would that be a better way to go? MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman, I make the suggestion that because it appeared that, I don 't know who made the comment why not have the other departments come in. But I don ' t picture it as being a free for all by any use of the word. I think it could be done diplomatically but if the Chair so wishes, that ' s fine, but take into consideration there are not too many more dates available after that. MR. ISHIDA: May I make a suggestion that since Mr. Fuke will plan to have his presentation in writing and I believe that you will have that presentation given to each of the departments? Is that my understanding? MR. FUKE: I will make my testimony avail- able to all of the county agencies. MR. ISHIDA: So if that is the case then I was thinking maybe if the Public Works or R & D desire to give or add to or make comments concerning Mr. Fuke 's presen- tation, I suppose if they could have time to. .they need not be present but if they wish to, maybe we should give them the opportunity on the same day that Mr. Fuke's comesin. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Then we will allow Mr. Fuke March 6 to present his testimony again. Is. that agreeable to all of you? March 6 to put him on the Agenda? MR. CADINHA: Mr. Chairman, could we possibly invite the mayor back on that day? I 've got some questions. I 'm a little vague on, specifically, the fiscal matters. And I sense a problem with this water thing. Functionally, I 'd like to know what it is and the only way to find out is to ask. I 'd like to have him come back. This day, if we have time. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Then you would like to have the mayor put. . . . MR. CADINHA: Whatever the schedule allows. Specifically the mayor. Akira, is that a problem? MR. OMONOKA: If you look at your schedule from May 1 the agenda calls for a commencing of drafting revisions to the Charter. At this point in time, if we get stuck with any agency, we can ask them back. -32- MR. CADINHA: That 's a good point. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: So, we ' ll impound the mayor. MR. CADINHA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Who will inform the mayor? Richard, will you. . . MR. CADINHA: No, I withdraw my suggestion. Akira says that we could take it on a specific agenda if we get to the administrative function, or whatnot, in the drafting and we could recall the mayor at that point. And that is fine with me. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Is everybody in agreement with this? Any other questions for Mr. Fuke? MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman, maybe we should ask Mr. Fuke if there is anything that he would like to discuss at this time. Anything that he may have available that he would want to discuss. We would be willing to hear that now. If not, we can defer that until the 6th of March. MR. FUKE: Actually, I have nothing to offer except to be able to answer any question that any of the Commissioners may have in mind in relation to what exactly the Planning Department does do. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman, if there are no questions for Mr. Fuke, I move to defer the testimony'-by the Planning Department until March 6. MR. CADINHA: I second the motion. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: It has been moved and seconded that we defer the testimony of the Planning Commis- sion by Mr. Fuke until March 6. All those in favor. Carried. Thank you, very much. RECESS: 51,:37po;rn.±he Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE: The meeting reconvened at 5 :55 p.m. , with all members present. CALENDAR MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman , I move that we AMENDMENTS: amend the calendar and agenda to read as follows: February 6 agenda to be adhered to on February 13. February 20 agenda to be moved to February 27. -33- That the County Council be invited for the February 20 meeting. March 6 meeting that we re- schedule the Planning Commis- sion again. The motion to amend the calendar was seconded and unanimously carried. The motion to invite the County Council for the February 20 meeting was seconded and unanimously carried. The Secretary was instructed to handle the correspondence. NEW MR. SCHUTTE: Under New Business, Mr. Chairman. BUSINESS: I thought we would have a new contract for our Secretary available at this meeting. Hqwever there was a typographical error in typing out this contract and as a result it was necessary for me submit it back to the respon- sible party to redraft. At which time, our Secretary will be available to sign it. Some time during the week instead of today as we had planned. LEGAL CHAIRMAN SAKATA: Mr. Ishida, do you have any COUNSEL: information on a Legal Counsel for the Commission? MR. ISHIDA: I regret to inform the Commission that the person we,;,had anticipated to engage, just called me today to say that he didn ' t want the position. So I contacted another person and I 'm to meet with that person, Thursday. I think it is really a question of dollars and cents. MR. SCHUTTE: I think what Commissioner Ishida is trying to say is that the person he had in mind to take the job has hired him as counsel to negotiate for him. MR. ISHIDA: No, this is another person, now. MR. CADINHA: What kind of dollars and cents? MR. ISHIDA: I don 't know. Basically, I think that what we have indicated would be fine. The only thing I think is the problem is the additional time that will be required whether there will' be additional funds for maybe some research assistance. MR. SCHUTTE: Maybe I could clarify that. Mr. Chairman, there is, to my knowledge, enough dollars. I calculated this thing commencing on a retainer basis from January 1. And then we put on an additional rider which would take care�.':of these incidentals if they develop. So the budget is made out from January 1 up until August. . .September I believe it is. - -34- So there is sufficient dollars and we have just been building up a kitty since we haven ' t been making use of this counsel. But we also have a little buffer there that I think would take care of additional dollars in case it is necessary. What are we talking about? Are we talking about maybe another $1 ,000? MR. ISHIDA: Maybe. MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Chairman, I think there is sufficient money in the budget. I might bring it to your attention that the budget, since you brought it up, is $20 ,000 that has been allotted already. That goes to the , ,sent l/z7 end of the fiscal year. We are allowed to use up ffhse_=entire] -r H0T _the amount of fhaD budget up to that time. If there is anything left over we don ' t get it. Then we haveuto go into another request for an additional $50, 000 which was already requested but has not passed the Council. Now, bear in mind also, that in addition to that request we have to also request the Council approval of a special election for November. But up to now the budget is no problem. We have a safe buffer. MR. ISHIDA: I think then I' ll_ contact -with you and Amy, here, and that probably I 'm sure we ' ll have somebody definitely by the next meeting. MR. SCHUTTE: May I ask a question of Commissioner Omonaka? In your past experience, when is it actually necessary to have our own legal counsel? MR. OMONAKA: Well , Donald Martin, the counsel for the Second Charter Commission was just about present at almost every meeting. MR. ISHIDA: I think it is wise for the counsel ::just to sit in on all the meetings. Because he has to grasp the whole nature of the proceedings. MR. SCHUTTE: Then what you are saying, Richard, is that as we start to work on the Charter. . . MR. ISHIDA: No, I think he should go from right now. Actually, if he could have been here already, it would have been ideal. It is not as critical but I think he should be. MR. SCHUTTE: Okay, then shall we say we are geared for $1,500 a month as a retainer? Are we looking at another $50, another $100 a month? -35- MR. ISHIDA: I don 't know, really. It may be because I think what he may be interested in is if he uses additional personnel for research when it becomes necessary. MR. SCHUTTE: I don 't think we ' ll have any trouble." We could go, probably. . . MR. ISHIDA: I was going to give him alter- natives and see what happens. Salary or hourly basis. And then Thursday, hopefully, we are going to work out the figures and see how it comes out. MR. SCHUTTE: I believe then with that in mind we can probably go another $100 or $200 above what we budgeted. MR. ISHIDA: Anyway, before I go into it I ' ll have to present it to both of you. PUBLIC MR. SCHUTTE: Mr. Omonaka suggested that we HEARINGS: start considering the dates for the public hearings. Time, etc. It was decided and stated by the Chair that the schedule and format for the public hearings would be put on the agenda for the next meeting and handled under NEW BUSINESS for that date. ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 6: 30 p.m. until Tuesday, February 13 , 1979, at 3: 30 pam. , Hawaii County Councilroom. lit ,/ / Joan Carnett RECORDING SECRETARY -36-