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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCHC 1979-04-03 HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER COMMISSION MINUTES 12th Session April 3, 1979 Hilo, Hawaii The twelfth session of the Hawaii County Charter Commission was called to order at 3 : 35 p.m. in the Hawaii County Councilroom, Hawaii County Building, Hilo, Hawaii, by Mr. Kimiaki Sakata,: Chairman. The roll recorded the following: Present : Mr. Harlan Cadinha Mr. Richa-rd Ishida Mrs. Amy Iwamoto Mrs. Gloria Kobayashi Mr. Kimiaki Sakata Mr. Spencer Kalani Schutte Mr. Herman Sensano Mr. Joseph Trulson Mr. Basilio Yagong Mr. Matsuo Yanaga Absent Mr. Akira Omonaka and Excused : Also Attorney Stuart Oda Present: Recording Secretary Joan Carnett GUEST The Chair called for the rules to be suspended COMMITTEE: and consideration of suggested proposals for Charter revision by the representative of the guest committee be accepted. Motion was made by Mr. Trulson. Seconded by Mrs. Iwamotoand unanimously carried. KONA_ WOMEN: The Chair introduced Ms. Virginia Isbell , COMMITTEE: - speaker for the Kona _Women Committee. . _. MS. ISBELL: Thank you very much for the oppor- tunity to be here today. I would like to clarify that I do not believe that we represent all the housewives and businesswomen of Kona but I can say, unequivocally, that we represent many of them. Lani Rivera, who is sitting over here, and myself both drove over today. Most of them are working. We feel that the women of this island have got to get involved because we are the ones who have to balance the budget at home. The women have not really voiced themselves and been heard and I think it is time they were. If you would like to know how many we represent, just ask me how many would you like. We can get 1 ,000 signatures. We can get 2,000 easily. But if you would like to know how many really worked hard on this , it is about fifteen--hardcore, delving into it, studying all the charters and coming up with what we feel are some good ideas. We have met also with the West Hawaii Committee. We have also met with the Chamber of Commerce in Kona. We have met with some women ' s groups and there is no disagreement. There was one that we had to compromise on because, you know, we were fighting for what we thought was right. But we feel that it is more important that we all agree on a few than to disagree on one. The first one that we are very interested in and we feel is the most important of all the charter revisions that we hope will be made, is that the county will be divided into districts with none at-large. No councilmen being elected at-large. I talked for some time with a lady here who is a businesswoman in Hilo and she stated that if you don 't have anyone at-large, they don ' t really see the overall picture and the idea of having two or three at-large is to give that overall county picture. That seems a little redundant because a county councilman by his name represents the county, but what it really does is not so much for the councilman but it gives the people someone that has to be responsible for their district. It is very difficult to pin anyone down when they run at-large and especially if they have lost in their own district. Now, as you know, this has happened three times in the last ten years. Their own district didn ' t elect them but the rest of the island did. That means that that person is really not going to be that responsive to a group of people who didn ' t even want him. . .his own district where he resides. We feel that districts tell the people this is your man, he is responsible for your district but he must look at the county as a whole because he is called a "County Councilman. " We suggest that there be nine members as there are now. At the present time, as you know, no one will admit that Kona has grown since 1970. The same census they had then of 12,000 people is used today, eight years later--nine years later. I can tell you Kona is explosive. It has not only grown it is bulging at the seams. We don ' t have such a thing as streets like you have Waianuenue Avenue and Kamehameha Avenue. We have two little highways, two little roads and that ' s it. They are stuffed with cars and with people and we've got some tremendous problems. I can tell you, it has grown. If the census is to be used that they have from 1970 then I suggest that we go to the 4 districts that you have now for your house of representatives. That these 9 members be apportioned according to an apportionment commission. - 2 - However, if you will notice on the second sheet I gave you, and I should like to read this into the record: "Should the Charter Commission decide to divide the island, following is a division based on voter registration. With only three precincts divided to allow for one man , one vote concept. The continuity of interest is also retained as agri- cultural areas or tourist areas are separated except for one district which is the Waimea-Kawaihae area. " Now if you ' ll notice, I call them A, B, C, and so on--and I had several ladies helping me with this so if you see some misspelled words, which I see, don ' t feel 'bad, we don 't really know how to spell Hilo either. If you ' ll notice, we figure the average voter should be 4,417, and we have tried to come to as close to that using the registered voter list. If you can ' t come to any conclusion as far as population then why not use the registered voter' s list. And that divided the island into some very neat pieces of pie. We've done it for you which helps a little bit. The above division roughly gives West Hawaii 3 representatives and East Hawaii six so you still have the majority in Hilo. However, after the census is taken and we go back to No. 1 on the main sheet--after the census is taken in 1980 and that means in 1981 the figures will be available--then the proper division should be taking place. We do not feel that voting for anyone at-large is wise. We would like to refer you to the Honolulu Charter. This is a book that we have just about worn out but it has all the charters in it and I 'm sure you've seen all of them from the different islands. But the Honolulu Charter is the one that has 9 members--single member districts, none at-large. They also have an apportionment commission which is reapportioned every eight years. Now, if you wait until the census is taken in 1980 and the figures are done in 1981 then you have a natural election coming up in 1982 which means you use the 4 districts until then for the 9 districts as we divided them up and then, at that time, you go by what the census tells you. If you' ll look at the Honolulu Charter, the page that we took out of here and xeroxed for you--the reapportionment in years, "every eighth year shall be apportioned" and this is according to the Honolulu Charter. They will meet and select the districts according to all the information and statistics that they have. And it says right here that "No district shall be_ _ so drawn as to unduly favor a person or political faction. __ _ Districts, insofar as practicable, shall be contiguous and compact. " Which we try to do also. "District lines shall , where possible, follow permanent and easily recognized features , and, when practicable, shall coincide with census tract boundaries. " I hopethat you will feel free to keep these for your references. And I also would like to refer you to, at this time, the article from West Hawaii Today which states very simply in the first two paragraphs that people of Kona basically, and we - 3 - all agree on this, do not like the system Matayoshi and Yamashiro have submitted to the Charter Commission as a recom- mendation. I would also like to remind you that we feel that Kona has approximately 23,000 to 25 ,000 people living in the tules, the coffeelands , in subdivisions, all over the place. No matter where you go you are going to find people and we intend to get them all registered to vote and we intend to have some say as to if you really insist on people at-large, we insist that we will decide who gets at-large. Because we are so determined and I believe that the housewives and women of Kona are going to work very hard to see that Kona is well represented. I ,feel that, right now, the decisions that we have with the apportionment give Hilo the upper hand until 1982. Number 2 on the first page is that the four-year term be staggered and set up on the same basis as that as the Con Con did for the senate. The reason we prefer the staggered system is because it allows for continuity. As you will recall , the last council had a tremendous turnover and it has taken almost 2% years just to get functioning because everyone has to learn the ropes at the same time. Now, if you really feel like cleaning out the council , you can do it very 2 years, half of them at a time. But it allows for continuity so you do not have the tremendous problems that we have had in the last several years. We do not agree with 2 year: terms. I know that Maui and Kauai have 2 year terms but they're very frustrated and I have talked with some of their councilmen and they, personally, don 't like it. It is very expensive. You must think also of the energy involved. Driving around the island every two years. . . let me tell you, it ' s very hard and it ' s very expensive. If you have your staggered terms and in fact if you'd like to add recall you could do that. You do have impeachment allowed in your County Charter as it is right now so if anybody were really bad you could get rid of them. So I don 't think there is any worry about four-year terms. It doesn ' t concern me as much as reap- portionment with none at-large. On the third point, the property tax on any piece of property must not exceed 1% of its assessed value. We are talking about using the real 100% assessed value. To use the 60% which is now used by the tax department is trying to make people believe something that really isn ' t so. Why not be honest about it and say, all right your value ,of your land is worth $40,000, you are being assessed, whatever it is, $17 per whatever, or less, since it is going to be on 100%. At least the people will understand that tax notice that comes around, because, personally, I don 't understand my own. I look at it, I call the tax department. I feel that it is not really fair to the people. So, we are talking about a property tax on the assessed value of the property not to increase more than 2% per year. - 4 - I 've got to tell you what is happening in Kona if you are not aware of it. Our house, we bought it for $42, 000 seven years ago. We have been offered $150,000 for it today. That is ridiculous. I wouldn ' t pay for that. But yet people are that much looking for housing right now. It has a good location and all that sort of thing. But that means that my assessed value of that land is going up even though I don ' t want it to. The people around me may sell and that is what it is going to be based on and it isn ' t fair. What about the little man who bought his property as an immigrant, who came here and bought maybe seven or eight acres--maybe he is on leased land you know they pay the taxes too--suddenly his land is valued at a half a million dollars--and that is true if you have five acres of land it could easily be a half a million dollars if it is zoned properly just the way they want it. If it is five acres up in Holualoa you can get about $185 ,000 for anund:ivide4--that is before it has been divided , no roads, no nothing in there, you are putting it in the pot and that is an actual fact. If it has already been divided,--the roads are in and there is electricity and water, it suddenly jumps to about a half a million dollars. Figure the taxes on that and how that affects the people. The local people cannot afford to live on this island. Especially in Kona. I suggested, at one time, that to show how many people are really struggling and having a terrible time just renting. . .'rents run, the minimum at $400 a month if you want a nice place. . .Everyone who is having a struggling time and.. wants to buy and cannot and cannot make ends meet, have a rally for one hour during a business day and see how the hotels cannot function without all those people. We have allowed hotels to be built without allowing for employee housing like Maui did. Sometimes I.: think we ought to get Elmer Carvalho over here just long enough to give us a few ideas of what he has done to help Maui develop. I , personally, don 't want to see it develop that much buthe has some very good ideas. And one of them is requiring employee housing of hotels. Now, whether that is a charter thing, I don't know. But I do know that we have got some serious problems with property tax. If your land is worth $200 thousand dollars next year, how do you intend to pay for your taxes? We are saying for the people who want to live on them, let them not be taxed to death. I find it almost a sin to take away the land of a person who lives on it but cannot afford to pay the taxes. Number 4, and there are only four things., We are not asking for the moon. We felt that if we limited our- selves to four, you would listen a little more carefully. ; The fourth one is we have a sick councilman. He was near death a few months ago. He has not been able to really truly function as a representative for us. The County Charter does not allow us to appoint anyonereally. They have to resign first. If it is a resignation; fine. Let ' s say this councilman feels he shouldn ' t resign because he can come back? Most of them do and ifthey couldn ' t feel that they probably wish they were dead. - 5 - But he feels good. He feels that he can come back but not right away. In this interim time, we are saying, let him appoint someone to represent us and to represent him on the county level. This interim appointment would be made by the county council. I 'd like to remind you of Mr. DeLUZ who was in an automobile accident a few years ago. I talked to him on the telephone and asked him how he felt about it. He was, as you know, in pretty critical condition and very seriously hurt for three months and he was not even able to function. For the next five months-- eight months in all--he functioned with a telephone by his bed. How much more of a relief it would have been for him had he been able to appoint someone that he knew 'could represent his own ideas and his people on the county council level even if for such a short time. That is the way we feel about an interim appointment. It is not in any charter, we couldn ' t find it in any of them. But we feel it is a very important thing that needs to be done and nobody has ever really looked at that faceto face. If a person were to have a stroke and could not make that decision , then a doctor' s certificate stating that he is incapacitated and that he should be allowed to, at least, rest without having to make that decision and the county council would then make that interim appointment. The continuity is there. We don ' t have what is happening right now and what has happened once before. Why wait until it happens again? And gentlemen and ladies--one lady on this whole group, is that right? There are two of you2 Well , it ' s still outnumbered. I 'd like to rest my case. I really appreciate your letting me come here today because you are going to be hearing this all over the island. We do have key people in every community and we have asked them if they agree with it and we have worked with them already on some tcy;be presented to you. You will see me again. Of course, I won ' t take up so much time. But there are many people who feel as we do and the ladies of this island, I think , are going to be heard. Would you like to ask me any questions? Of course, we represent a lot of men, too. We've got one of the husbands of one of the wives, here, today, checking us out, I guess. MR. TRULSON : Ms. Isbell, just for verification. . in No. 1 , "One member shall be elected from each of the nine districts" that means that they will run only in that district, .;. and none at-large. MS. ISBELL: Correct. None at-large. MR. TRULSON: One more question. Have you met with any, of the ladies from Kohala regarding the redistricting? MS. ISBELL: I met with a couple in our church. But I have not met with a public group, no. We intend to. Let me tell you the next few weeks is going to be busy for us. We really intend to try and get everybody involved so that you will see some ladies saying what they feel , and, some men, too'. :: We've got everyone agreeing with us. In fact, we have not found anyone to disagree with us yet. On the basic concepts. Maybe a little word here and there. - 6 - MR. TRULSON: You are also asking us to con- sider two things as far as redistricting. Either do it now or wait until after the census. MS. ISBELL: That is correct. You would still have to do some reapportionment though because of the 4 districts you' ll have to decide by the one man , one vote, how many each district should have. For instance, the Waimea, Kailua-Kona, West Hawaii would probably have to have two because you must realize Waimea has also grown. It ' s noslonger the sleepy little town it used to be. Right now it has only one representative, as you know. The reapportionment is going to have to happen state wide also. I might add that Oregon has a law--I took just Oregon because it has so many good laws--they stated that if a reapportionment is not done by the legislature then the secretary of state will do it for them. So, there is no putting it off-it has to be done. It should have been done here on this county level long ago and I suggested that there are many volunteer groups. And, I think , people like the Exchange Club, Lions Club, people who know the importance of the political setup and are apolitical themselves would be willing to become involved in a census of this county if that were the way it should be done every eight years. Because you have these clubs in every community and they know their communities better than any census taker and they would also probably do it free of charge. If not, we can get the women to do it. MR. SCHUTTE: Ms. Isbell, with regards to your item Number 3, Property Tax, you mention here it is not to exceed 1% of its assessed value, with its assessed value not to increase more than 2% per year except that when the property is sold the assessed value goes to fair market value. The 2% that you speak of, that ' s on 100% of the market value? MS. ISBELL: That ' s correct. I might add that, again, I got an Oregon idea out of this. And it ' s because I know some former legislators from Oregon who live in Kona and I 'm always pumping them for what they used to do as a legislature and how we can improve our state, here. I think oftentimes we reinvent the wheel. For instance, aquaculture has been worked on for the past 5 years in Honolulu, but why not bring people from Israel and Chinaover who have been doing it for centuries and 60% of their whole protein intake is from aquaculture. They could tell us in a few moments what to do, not 5 years. The same holds true of states who have good laws. The Oregon law for agriculture use, for instance--if you have a piece of agricultural land it is based on an agricultural assess- ment and you are charged only the tax on the use of that land. However, if you subdivide it and sell it, obviously, you had other intentions, then the tax keeper goes back 5 years and taxes you as if it were a subdivision. This is an anti-speculation sort of clause and so is this one, Number 3. If you' re really going to sell your land and intend to make a big profit on it then you share that with the county. - 7 - MR. SCHUTTE: Ms. Isbell , the same thing exists here where lands can be put to specific use and dedi- cated for such use and you do have the benefits of the tax differential. MS. ISBELL: If you 've dedicated it to agriculture. But if you do sell it we are talking about going back on a 5 year basis and taxing you. . . . MR. SCHUTTE : The same thing exists here, today. You can dedicate it and lock it in for 10 years or 20 years whichever happens to be to your best advantage and what it does is guarantee that this land will not be used for anything else other than its specific use for that length of time and if for some reason or other you decide to change that use then the tax people will come in and assess you on the back taxes for the higher and better use that you have put that property to. MS. ISBELL: How many years? MR. SCHUTTE: Within a ten or twenty year period you can dedicate this land. But_they will go back from-,day one, the day that you change this, and assess you on that basis. So that you do have the benefit of specific use for any particular piece of property. MS. ISBELL: What about non-dedicated agri- cultural land? MR. SCHUTTE: Non-dedicated agricultural lands go for the highest and best use under agriculture whatever that may be. If truck crops happens to be the highest and best use then your land would be assessed on that particular use, right? There is a way out. If an individual--what I am trying to get at--if an individual is sincere enough about using this part- icular piece of land for agriculture, he does have a way of doing It without becoming overtaxed for subdivision development or tourist development that may come up right next door. It does have this ability. I think if you' go back+. sorer ,-the`- records of the tax office you ' ll find this exists with the Waikoloa lands and the adjoining Waikoloa lands is owned by Parker Ranch. They had a test case in court relative to the higher and best use of those lands. All these lands can be dedicated for a specific use. MS. ISBELL: Okay, what about the man who lives in a fairly rural area but his land is zoned as a resi- dence and up comes a hotel or condominium next to him. He does not have the opportunity to stay in that same tax bracket. His property goes up to what ' s around him. This is how they assess it. These people are the ones, really, we are talking about. I gave you the Oregon example and I 'm glad to hear Hawaii has this. I don ' t know all the tax laws but I ' ll certainly look that one up. I do think there are some real inequities here on people who are taxed. - 8 - MR. SCHUTTE : Well , I believe that you are going to find inequities in every phase of government. It ' s just a matter of looking and you ' ll find something. What I 'm trying to say is you mention the situation of an individual that has a residential lot and he is right smack in the middle of hotel development and tourist development and he is assessed the higher and best use which would be a hotel or whatever and on that basis he would have to pay it. The tax office does not base a specific sale or change ;a value of land on any specific items . ' It ' s a bench mark that is set up and it is set up over a period of time ori different comparables. But because, say, for instance, your piece of property is sitting in a hotel development zone it won ' t necessarily boost your property to that extreme at that particular time. But, if the trend is in that direction over a period of two years , etc. , then this will , your property will show. , this value on this initial value. But it won 't be done overnight because the tax office looks at it as not being a true value. . . MS. ISBELL: That's not'-exactly the case that has happened of several people I know of. It does happen rather quickly and depends on when that assessment is going around. The people who live in those areas are constantly in fear of the fact that their taxes are going up because they know the development around them and that is what it is based on. The sale of development around them. Now, when that happens, and I can even stipulate that there are--the Kanuha residents , for instance, right in the middle of the village--they simply couldn ' t pay those taxes anymore. It became a resort development and so they just sat there and once they left it the shack finally fell down. But it was just too much for them. There are many other people who are going to be in the same situation. I 'm talking about the future knowing that what happened in the past is what we base our future on. And that' s why I suggest that 1% of the assessed value not be exceeded per year. I really think that we should use the 100% instead of the 60% so people can understand it. MR. SCHUTTE : Well , would you agree that this inequity in tax assessment has a lot to do with people that can financially afford to buy these parcels are picking them up and sitting on them until such a time that they can have the zoning changed or :that they_ could actually develop it for speculation. Don ' t you agree that this does contribute considerably to the property tax? MS. ISBELL: Well , of course it does. Anytime anyone buys anything at a high price. .as it is now. .and sits on it they know it is going to evaluate. . . MR. SCHUTE: Don ' t you think that this parti- cular suggestion that you are making will also enhance that the speculator would be able to purchase property and have the benefit of being taxed not 'more than 1% of its value. . . - 9 - MS. ISBELL: That is not what it says here. It says he would be taxed on the assessed value, the fair market value. If he paid $200, 000 for it, that, from then on is going to be his assessed value. If the man who had it before bought it for $40,000, we are saying that that is his assessed value and it will stay at that going up only 1% on it and not to increase more than 2% per year. But once that property is sold and again here is why I brought up the Oregon law--perhaps the person who is selling it should also be looked at if he does sell it for subdivision or a high price that he be taxed on what his intentions were for the past five years. I do not pretend to be a tax expert. I only know that we've got a big problem in Kona and I know that- my taxes have gone up as well as yours and I expect that they are all going to go up more. I just worry and am concerned as well as other people. I did not come up with this one, by the way. They are concerned about what is going to happen to others as well as themselves. MR. CADINHA: Ms. Isbell , with regards to what you were talking about on taxes. Proposal No. 3 that you have, would you apply that uniformly to all classes of property, all zonings? MS. ISBELL: Well , if the agricultural lands-- is that what you are saying--between agricultural and resort areas? I 'd hate to say it for right today because the land values are so high, but if in the past they have been valued at a certain price, once that is assessed, I 'd hate to see it assessed the way it- is today. MR. CADINHA: I 'm not asking you where you determine the basis. I 'm saying would you apply the 1% limit- ation to all classes of property? MS. ISBELL: That ' s a good question and , :. frankly, I . don ':t have the answer. I don ' t know because I 'm trying to figure out if a resort hotel were to be sold. . . MR. CADINHA: You are proposing that we put a 1% limit on what property, then? MS. ISBELL: I think I 'm talking about the farmer and the little residents. Personally, that is what our intent was. We didn ' t give enough thought, perhaps, to what it would be in a resort area which is to make money. Residents and farmers live on their farms or on their residents because that is where they have to live,; " It 'really applies to them, in _sny opinion. MR. CADINHA: To residents and agriculture. MS. ISBELL: Yes. This one_ needs to go back to the women and worked on some more, I can see that. .~ - 10 - I think what you are getting is our general idea that we feel taxes are definitely a problem. They are going to be worse. And we are concerned about our homes and many of the. people in our group are farmers. I know one lady who raises goats. MR. CADINHA: I appreciate the problem but we don ' t want to take a. suggestion and write it in and create another problem. MS. ISBELL: People who are experts really need to look at this and see what they can do to help us. MR. CADINHA: Secondly, with regard to that valuation. How would you handle a downturn in value? MS. ISBELL: Do you think that will happen? MR. CADINHA: It ' s happened before. In the 30 ' s. I 'm not suggesting it is going to happen again but if it should and if you had a limitation based on property values and the values went down you 'd have a county that was in violation of the charter and to remain within the provisions of the charter would have to go to default. Or cut out a lot of services and I 'm just wondering what provisions--how would you handle that possibility? MS. ISBELL: If land values go down and we do have a depression we are all going to be in trouble. Land values will still be in proportion to the amount of money that is being used at the time because that means that in the grocery store the value of groceries are going to go down.. If you 're really asking me for an opinion on_"what _happens when land value goes down and the, taxes _go down that the county using. to run the county, I would say that we are all going to be in such trouble that that ' s an immense problem for me even to think about. I 'm pretty sure it is going to happen. We are going to have a depression but I don ' t know how to answer that , Harlan. I feel that if we do have that problem it is going to be so big that the federal government will be in trouble too. MR. CADINHA: It need not even be a depression. It depends on where your marker years are. Every market has a cycle including our own real property. It has had cycles up and down in accelerating and decelerating rates. If you happen to take your base year at a peak. . . MS. ISBELL: For your assessed value? MR. CADINHA: That ' s right. MS. ISBELL: You see, if your land value goes down then the property will be sold for less and then that around you will be assesssed for less and your assessment will go down. MR. CADINHA: Right, but the county services police, fire, water all of these things that we make and take - 11 - for granted for comforts and everyday things that are just around us have to be paid for. This is what I 'm saying. MS. ISBELL: Correct. But proportionately everything is going to have to go down. The wages that the policemen are going to get , and the teachers , if there isn ' t any money in the state coffers to pay teachers , for instance, how can they continue to pay them their wages? As you realize, they just had to make a request for more money because there wasn ' t enough to pay for all of the niceties that the teachers get. Well if that money were not available they just wouldn ' t get it. That ' s it. If the money isn 't there how can you spend it? Of course, the federal government manages to do that but I don ' t think we should try. MR. CADINHA: Another question. With regard to the apportionment commission, how would that commission be selected? MS. ISBELL: If you look at it right there in front of you. It ' s on the piece of paper from the Honolulu Charter. MR. CADINHA: It says there will be nine people. The presiding officer of the council shall , with the approval of the council select the members of the commission. MS. ISBELL: That' s right. All you have to do is follow the Honolulu Charter on how you select your commission and then they work with the county clerk and with all of the statistics they can get their hands on and it is up to them to reapportion. Then it says, also, that if anyone disagrees with it they have the right to challenge that. MR. CADINHA: So insofar as the commission no geographical balance intended. That is up to the presiding officer. You are saying we follow the Honolulu Charter? MS. ISBELL: Yes. Unless you can refine it and improve on it. That is always a possibility. But it is meant to show you how they did it. MR. CADINHA: Last question. Why are you against at-large candidates? MS. ISBELL: I think I made it fairly clear that when you have an at-large person, he is not totally responsive to a certain segment of people. It is very difficult to get hold of him. The advantage is for the people. When you have a person who is elected from your district , he can no longer pass the buck. That person is responsible for that district. An at-large person, and we have three now, we hardly ever see them in Kona. If we call them and ask them to come over they are just totally alien to our district. It is very difficult to explain to them that pothole out in front of your yard because they don ' t drive over - 12 - it every day and they don 't understand that we only have two roads. Maybe they have never tried to get through that one traffic light we have on a left turn during a busy time. If you have lived in a district, you really understand it and that is the advantage of having none at-large. They know their people, they know their district and the people know them and hold them accountable. That is a real advantage. Also, another advantage, too, is it is a lot cheaper to run. The person who is running also has the ability to concentrate on his district. When you are at-large you have got to be all things to all people everywhere. This is true on a small scale for the county council but when you are an at-large person it is an almost impossible task. It is also very expensive. - You can see how money has been spent. MR. CADINHA: Where would an at-large candidate' s loyalty be, in your mind? MS. ISBELL: To his district and to the county because he is a county councilman. Now if he isn ' t, I suggest they get rid of him. MR. CADINHA: What is his district if a:_.man is running at-large? MS. ISBELL: I didn ' t know that was the=question. If he is :running at-large, I would think the place he resides would be his home. MR. CADINHA: And that is where his loyalty would be and not with the majority of the votes':.would be? MS. ISBELL: So far it has been where the majority of the votes have been because that is where 'he .]rives. Hilo has always had the at-large people. MR. CADINHA: The majority of the votes should shift to Kona, you are saying? I 'm asking you if you think loyalties of an at-large candidate could shift also? MS. ISBELL: I 'm going to put myself in that place because it is a difficult question. It ' s very nebulous. If I were an at-large candidate for the county council and I won and I lived in Kona. That is my home base. I would be spending most of my time there, no doubt , because that is where I live. My loyalties, no doubt, would be first of all to the people in my district. I feel , personally, that way. And that is another reason I think at-large is a fallacy. MR. CADINHA: Fair enough. Thank you. ., .: MR. ISHIDA: Ms. Isbell, I wasn ' t here on earlier part but I think that the reapportionment commission that you are proposing is the one that is found in the Honolulu Charter. I notice that the Honolulu Charter states that the reapportionment year to be every eighth year. Is that what you are also proposing, every eight years? Why eight years? - 13 - MS. ISBELL: Right. We were thinking of every four years at first. Then we decided things change but not really that much in four years but over an eight year period it does. But if you wait for the ten years then you are waiting actually for eleven years because the census is never available until the year after is is taken. So eight years seemed like a good number and since they had it we went to that. It could have been a seven or six but it has been used and it has stood the test of time already. They have not amended this and so we feel there' must_ be a good reason for it. We felt that four years is too soon-and it is a big undertaking to take a census w ' and do a reapportionment. It also upsets your political balance. If you have staggered terms you are going to have some problems. MR. ISHIDA: If we do have this reapportionment every eight years , would you consider that the charter review should probably be done every eight years also? Or do you think those are two totally different matters? MS. ISBELL: I think those are two totally different things. MR. ISHIDA: You have also, I think, stated that in your 9 representative districts, I believe that you have divided it on the basis of voter registration. Is that correct? MS. ISBELL: For lack of a better way. Who knows what the census is? MR. ISHIDA: What would be the basis then under your suggestion as what reapportionment would -be? Use the voter registration or would you attempt to use a different type of base here?. MS. ISBELL: First of all , we suggest you use the 4 representative districts and that the census that you have available now would be used to say whether that district would have two people in it or three or whatever. However, if the 4 districts were voted down or shouted down in your next hearings throughout the island, we suggest there is an alternative and that is to use the voter registration because it divides it up one man, one vote which is legal and as far as voter registration goes because there is no good way to know at this date and time what the census is of this island to know where people really live. These are just two alternatives but then again we are saying whatever you decide, whatever districts you put in we ask that it be one man , one vote, single districts , none at-large. Tt ' s up to you how you want to cut up the pie. But then after that census .of: 1980 let it be done according to the legal census however the chips may fall using an apportionment committee. MR. ISHIDA: On item 3, Property Tax, initially how would you assess the value of a property? Would it be at today ' s value? - 1 4. MS. ISBELL: I think you would have to use what they have on the books already. If you use today' s value it would put me right out of my house. I prefer you didn ' t. MR. ISHIDA: I understand that. I think the predicament is that you are concerned that the property values, especially in West Hawaii , have increased too immensely. That the amount is out of sight. If we used those values, probably it would not solve the thing about which you are concerned. So would you have any type of suggestion as to what we should consider? MS. ISBELL: The ones that are on the books right now because I don ' t think that we can step backward. I don ' t think the county would allow that but I do think that if you start'_ at what it is right now it is a step. Maybe you should have an expert do it, I really don ' t know. I hope it isn 't too high. I don ' t know if all of you realize what is happening in Kona. Maybe you all do and it is just redundant but it is a frightening thing. It is really frightening. I was talking to a young girl who just got an FHA approved loan and she can ' t find a piece of property to go with it. They 've also, as you know, been working on a legislative bill which would allow for low payments at first with low interests so that as your salary improves then the payments would go up so that during your less-,productive years you would be able to afford to buy a home. That is very nice except you can ' t make a down payment. You can 't find a piece of property you can afford even at a low price right now, at a low payment. It is that bad. I challenge you to come to Kona and try to find a piece of property. Try to build a house. In fact, if you don ' t have a good heart I suggest you stay home. MR. TRULSON: Ms. Isbell , I have one question on Part 4. When you discussed this provision , did you take into consideration that should this pass or be part of the charter and a councilman does select somebody to take his place while he is ill and should that councilman die, then would you revert back to Section 3-5? MS. ISBELL: Yes, then you would have to follow the charter. This is only for interim appointments for someone who comes back to life again. He is able to represent your district. MR. SCHUTTE: Ms. Isbell, back again to that property tax. You made some remarks about the way the honorable Elmer Carvalho handles the County of Maui and that we should take some expertise, possibly, from him. MS. ISBELL: I was talking about the hotels having to be responsible for building employee housing. - 15 - MR. SCHUTTE: That is what I am getting at. In regards to this employee housing, I don ' t know if you are familiar with the employee housing that Rockefeller :put up for the Mauna Kea employees and what has happened since that time has defeated the entire intent and purpose of what it was constructed for-if you recall back it was very difficult to get imployees that would buy homes or lease them or what have you. As a result, it was built and what has happened that those employees who did purchase homes have since doubled their value by selling those same parcels and still work for Mauna Kea. They have capitalized on a provision that was set up to help them. Bearing this in mind, how can we equally set up a property tax with a basis of- assessment that would in every respect be as equal to all concerns including the everyday hourly employees and the tourist developments , the speculators and every other individual that is involved- in Kona_real ' estate. As you mentioned, not only in Kona does this happen but also in Waimea where we have had ag lands that are at such a price today that farming is entirely out of the question. It is not equitable. It is not feasible. Economi- cally it is a disaster that we have to resort to this kind of value to land. Then it is still a problem of trying to do it and assess these properties on an equal basis with all of these variations involved. You mention here that this particular proposal is more aimed at the agricultural lands andthe home- owners. You are quite aware, also, that in making these assessments it has got to be on an even keel so that everyone is assessed equally regardless of the situation. How does this work in line with that? MS. ISBELL: I 'm not sure I agree with you that everybody has to be assessed equally. If it is a resort development, I would think that would be a totally different type of assessment because they are in the business of making money and it is resort development. But we are talking, about residents, really, and you mention people who have capitalized and doubled their money in the Kawaihae area, in that village. Those people are doing exactly what they have been shown how to do. They are doing what everyone else is doing so therefore their assessment would go up at the moment they sold that too. And perhaps it should go back five years. But at least they are getting assessed on the fact that they made a lot of -money out of itand they are sharing it with the county. The person who doesn ' t sell it and who uses it as a residence with all the intentions of staying in it should not be penalized for the fact that he didn 't want to sell it and has no intentions of making a big killing. I don ' t think we should use that as an example. That Rockefeller area because first of all a° lot of those employees were from Kohala and they were driving over and that is a hot spot to live in. It is a very warm little village. It is a very pleasant place to live but frankly it is awfully close together. Many of them could not see leaving beautiful Kohala and the breezeand their area. I have talked - 16 - to many and I 'm sure you have, too, to live in the Kawaihae Village andwso they went begging, those village homes. In the Kona area there isn ' t that much choice and I think what you should have is a buy back clause. If you are selling a house for employee housing or you are renting-- Kona Inn used to have its own :employee housing, by the way, and they rented it out--they recently tore it down, either that or it was going to fall down--but if you are using it for employee housing then it stays within that framework and it is not sold for profit. It is either sold back or the lease goes back to the owner who would be some corporation. Either the hotel having itsown or a corporation set aside separate. MR. SCHUTTE : First of all , you felt that there should be a difference between the resort type of develop- ment tax-wise and a homeowner situation. The homeowner does contribute his portion of taxes to the county but then again the development does the same thing only in greater numbers. Not only in property taxes but in other taxes that are hidden in their contribution to the state and the county. I think they pay their proportionate share for the income or the dollars that they intend to make. If you recall back to another example. A number of years back the Lalamilo lands were set up_ for_the__. farmers in Waimea. State lands and the idea of this was to expand the agricultural base. - There were forty acre parcels set up; thirty acre parcels were all put out. Drawings were made. Various farmers that had lands in Waimea took advantage of this and took these additional lands in Lalamilo They turned around and they sold in some cases their very productive Waimea lands for a rocky area in Lalam,i_lo.. The state got together with them and they formed their own rules and regulations relative to what this land could be used for; the length of time that it was to be kept agriculture; just exactly what they as owners could do and could not do. After a number of years went by and I would say, not even ten years, a number of these farmers wanted to subdivide these parcels and they were very disturbed because they were not allowed to subdivide these parcels. They came up with the same thing,--well , you know, their children don ' t want to farm. As a result, they wanted to be able to give each child a portion of this land. So here is another case where lands were set aside specifically and where you had the owners who drew up their own rules and regulations which they, themselves, could not live by as time went on. This was not even over. a period of ten years,-this was under a period of ten years. So with all of these complexities it is not that simple to come up and MS. ISBELL: I told you, I wasn ' t the expert. I only know that we are requesting that the assessed value not increased to thepoint we can ' t afford to paythem. be i s - 17 - MR. SCHUTTE: That is the point-I 'm getting at. What is that point? MS. ISBELL: We think it is not more than 2% per year of the assessed value at the time that whatever is on the books right now. We are being assessed for our home at a little more than what we paid for it. We don ' t intend to sell it. It is not going to be on the market to make a big profit and if it were and we sold it then we should have to pay some of those taxes as if we planned to. And that, I think , would have been an anti-speculation clause. But it isn ' t in right now. MR. SCHUTTE: Why would you have to pay this additional dollars if you were to sell your parcel_ of. ` land._ After a number of years if you have taken this same parcel and improved it and added to it and enhanced its value. It has cost you money to do that.,__ So why after a period pf five years or ten years would you have to be assessed a penalty for enhancing the value of your own property? MS. ISBELL: First of all , you are the one who has talked about the fact that if you have dedicated agriculture land and it was sold at a` big profitto be a subdivision or what- ever and then you were assessed back on whatever it was dedi- cated"!for. Why that? The same answer holds true with this. The reason is for anti-speculation. If you are being taxed because you sold it=-: for a lot of improvements that you have made on it then according to that you wouldn ' t be selling it for that much more. But we are talking about inflationary land that is doubling and tripling. It is out of sight. That is a different story altogether. MR. SCHUTTE : No, I don ' t think it is because on the land that is being used for a specific use, as I mentioned, is a law that is existing on the books today that gives the individual the opportunity to take advantage of a specific use. I merely answered a question that you proposed of an Oregon law that exists and I pointed out that there is a law that exists on the books today that gives you that opportunity. MS. ISBELL: But you are asking me, why? , And I 'm saying, that ' s it. The reason it is on the books for that bit of property must also apply to anything else that is sold. Whether it be residential, resort or farm. There has to be a reason for it._- The reason they have it on the books for that. purposeP is anti-speculation and we are stating that same to be true here. MR. SCHUTTE : So what you are actually saying is that there should be a specific use-for residential use only. MS. YIiSBELL: If that is what it is zoned at. MR. SCHUTTE : And then if at some other time along the way, you should decide to sell this parcel then you should be, taxed for its higher and better use. - 18 - MS. ISBELL: That ' s why we are saying is: that the assessed value goes to the fair market value at that time. The person who buys it is the one who is going to end up paying all the taxes, too. That assessed value will all of a sudden jump to what he has paid for it. MR. TRULSON: Going back to provision No. 1. I look at the nine districts that you have proposed and district 2 is broken into four districts--in your proposal you say that one member shall be elected from each of the nine districts. Are you also suggesting that there be residency requirements as to those districts? MS. ISBELL: Yes, the person would have to live in his district. MR. TRULSON : He would have to live in one of the nine to run from that district. MS. ISBELL: Yes. Right now, as you know, there are six people who must live in their districts to run from their districts. The other three do not, they are at-large. But they will always be voted on by a majority wherever that majority happens to be with the highest number of voters. MR. SCHUTTE : Ms. Isbell , the last point here on No. 4 regarding the term of appointment when a councilman is unable to carry out his duty. There is a provision in the County Charter that states when a vacancy occurs in the county council, the remaining members of the council shall appoint a successor. A person of the same political party as a person who succeeds with the requisite qualifications to fill the vacancy. And then again it goes on to state how this should be done. The only thing this particular section does not cover, it does not define "vacancy." It assumes that the individual is deceased. MS. ISBELL: It does, it says that he has to resign. It states in there 'very clearly that the only time that you can replace a councilman is if he resigns or dies. If he resigns and there are two years of his term, there must be a special election. It ' s in your charter. If it is within one year then he can be appointed. There is no provision for one who is sick and wants somebody in his place until he gets well again. MR. SCHUTTE: That is what I just got through saying. I said it just provides for a "vacancy" and it does not spell out the specifics. MS. ISBELL: It does. It says in here,--just a minute. . . MR. SCHUTTE: What section are you looking at? MS. ISBELL: I 'm trying to find the charter, first. I 've got several of them in front of me. Which section are you looking at? - 19 - MR. SCHUTTE : Section 3-5 , page 3. Vacancy in office. MS. ISBELL: If the person has an unexpired term of less than one year, obviously, he has either resigned or he has died. MR. SCHUTTE: All I am saying, Ms; Isbell, is Just quoting what it says right here in the charter. In Section 3-5 . Vacancy in Office. Under that it says that "when any vacancy occurs in the county council , the remaining members of the council shall appoint as a successor a person of the same political party as the person he succeeds.','_. .-The only thing this particular portion does not say--does not spell out or define "vacancy. " What does "vacancy" mean. . . MS. ISBELL: That. is _correct. All _ri-ght but -what -you are also saying is if you are putting someone in for an expired term you are ousting the person who has been elected. You can ' t do that unless he has resigned or died. There is no provision for that. MR. SCHUTTE: That is exactly what I said. I say there is a provision here but this says "vacancy" it does not spell it out as to whether you can do this or make an appointment to take over somebody' s position until he gets well again. . . MS. ISBELL: Right. This is a permanent thing that you are talking about in 3-5 . If a person were put in, that ' s it. It' s done. It ' s for the rest of the term, it says. MR. SCHUTTE: I said "vacancy: " We do not have a definition of "vacancy:" What does "vacancy" mean? MS. ISBELL: Somewhere in here it says a person has to resign or die. MR. SCHUTTE: I 'm looking right here where it has the section that handles vacancy. All I 'm saying is that we do not have a definition of vacancy. And that is the difference here. If vacancy were defined in this particular section it might take care of what you are suggesting. MS. ISBELL: Well, if you were to have a vacancy defined as a person who is ill, how would you be able to apply (a) and (b) ? MR. SCHUTTE : How would I apply ( a) and what? MS. ISBELL: How would you apply (a) and (b) to a vacancy of a person who is ill? You are actually replacing him. MR. SCHUTTE: I don ' t know. I 'm just quoting exactly what I have here and I 'm just mentioning that there is a particular section - 20 - MS. ISBELL: But it does not apply to a vacancy of a person who is coming back. MR. SCHUTTE: It doesn ' t even apply to. . .it just says "vacancy". . .it doesn ' t even apply to the person who is deceased. We ' ll just have to spell it out. That is all I am saying. MS. ISBELL: Okay. All right, then maybe that is one of your biggest objects in here but I still state that a person who is unable to function, temporarily, must have a special section applied to that because thereis no waythat you could apply ( a) or (b) to a person who is ill. It is assumed the died or resigned to fill a vacancy of an unexpired term. He does not have an unexpired term if he is still alive. His term is still there. MR. TRULSON : Ms. Isbell , I might have a different charter here but I don ' t see (a) and (b) . Would you read them to me? MS. ISBELL: In Section 3-5 ( a) "if the unex- pired term is less than one year"? This is out of the Revised Hawaii Statutes. You mean you don ' t have it in your charter? MR. SCHUTTE: That is an RL that you are reading. It is not in the County Charter here. It is an RL. MS. ISBELL: It ' s the Hawaii Revised Statutes with the appendix of the county charters in it. It is what we 've been using to study from. It says ( a) "if the unexpired term is less than one year, the remaining members of the council shall appoint as a successor, a person of the same political party" that as you just read. You don ' t have that? You mean the state disagrees with you on your charter? MR. ISHIDA: That must be another charter. MS. ISBELL: No, it says "Hawaii Charter. " That is interesting. Well , this is what your legislators look at when they are talking about counties. This, book. MR. CADINHA: Would you read the first sentence? I think it is just categorized differently. MS. ISBELL: It says, "Section 3-5 Vacancy in Office. Any vacancy in the county council shall be filled as follows : ( a) If the unexpired term is less than one year. . . " You found it? MR. SCHUTTE: This is under the old version. There has been a new printing that we have here now. MS. ISBELL: So is mine new or is yours new? - 21 - MR. ODA: It has been reprinted into this volume we are using here. MS. ISBELL: When was that reprinted? MR. ODA: This is the original printing (green bound copy) . The revised printing is in this white volume which does not have the subcategories ( a) and (b) . MS. ISBELL: When did they get taken out? I mean, how could it be taken out? MR. ODA: It was revised in April of 1976. MS. ISBELL: This is a ' 76-County Charters. . Well , I don ' t know what to say about that except this is what we have been using to study from and regardless of--I agree with you, Kalani , that the vacancy is very vague if that is all it says in yours. What we have been going by is if the .unexpired term is there and you replace him he is obviously dead or re- signed. You cannot replace a person just because he is ill-on a permanent basis. There has to be an interim appointment some- how stipulated in that charter. I ' ll have to talk to my lawyer friend and get him a new set of books. I didn ' t know things were that bad but hard times are all over. Do you have any more questions? CHAIRMAN SAKATA: I have one question, Ms. Isbell . On this county council , are you proposing that the councilmen shall serve for four years? Have you people ever looked at a two year term? MS. ISBELL: Yes, we did. We feel that the same as Maui and Kauai, the people who are doing that two year term do not really appreciate or enjoy having to go around every two years. The people themselves say well maybe it is good because we can clean our house every two years. But they don ' t. They rarely do. Those same people go in pretty much. If you really feel that someone isn ' t doing their job and sometimes you need two years just to get your feet on the ground as you know this happened here in this county. You need the next two years to start functioning. So if you have a two year term and you don ' t produce as some of our councilmen have not for the past two years, we would have gotten rid of them and they would never have had an opportunity to prove that they have learned something and that they can function which is happening now. So, I say, a two year term doesn ' t make sense. It doesn ' t give a person enough time to do a good job. If you give them staggered four year terms you have the continuity and you still have the opportunity to take them out by impeachment if they are not doing a good job. So, just like the senators, you put them in for four years and if they are not doing a good job they are voted out the next time around. Your level , the county level, they can be taken out other ways. - 22 - CHAIRMAN SAKATA: One more question. On these staggered terms are you proposing here that we go strictly according to the number of votes that they receive? MS. ISBELL: Yes, just like the senate was done so that the top two--the top one does not have to run again ; the second two if there are that many who run not to run again. MR. ISHIDA: Ms. Isbell, on this item 4, what would be the standard onaJwhich you would determine when the councilman would be unable to carry out his duties? MS. ISBELL: The doctor' s statement. A doctor can tell you if a person has had a stroke or has been in an accident where his brain is not functioning like a stroke victim might not be. He would verify it by a certificate which I have personally seen done many times if a person is unable to function in his position. For instance, if a persontw•antsto`get out _of being on jury duty he comes to the doctor and asks for a certificate stating that he is unable to sit for long periods of time or he wants out of it for other reasons that are medical. The doctor, then, would make that decision and sign a certificate. The same would hold true if a councilman had a stroke and were unable to even sign or say anything. The doctor would say he is at this time unable to make his own decision on an interim basis he cannot function. And so, therefore, the recommendation is that there be an interim appointment until such time that he is able to say I can think now, I can talk, I want my brother to represent me or my wife, or that person, in this district of the same party. That is when it would happen. The doctor would be the one to make that decision. He is the only one in a position to do so. MR. SENSANO: Ms. Isbell , supposing this individual should become ill and not have a stroke but have, let ' s say, mental illness. A person who is mentally ill some- timeswould imagine that he is capable but actually he is incapable. Then supposing your district were represented by such a councilman? Who would make the determination? MS. ISBELL: If he were that bad, I would say the people would certainly see that he was taken out by an impeachment process. However, if he were ill to the point where he was ready to be committed to an asylum._ the doctor, again, would be the one to make that decision. It is either the people or the doctor that are going to do it. If it is near an election time, I can tell you he probably won ' t get reelected. MR. SENSANO: You are talking about a clear-cut case but sometimes there may be a borderline case where the person may be ill but yet doesn ' t believe that he is ill. - 23 - MS. ISBELL: Well, if we elected him then we are stuck with him. I mean if it is that fine of a line and he won ' t resign and he won 't put an appointment in and the doctor can ' t make that decision , you are going to have to work with him. The other councilmen are going to have to.' We are not in the position to make his decisions for him. If the doctor says that he is functioning and he says that the man can make his own decisions , we cannot take that away from him. He was elected and he has those years to run. MR. SENSANO: So it may be then that this person may continue in office even though you think he may not be capable. MS. ISBELL: There is always that possibility. But we are really speaking of the catastrophic sort of thing happening. MR. SENSANO: You mean certain types of illnesses. In other words where it is demonstrated that this man is not physically capable of attending meetings and things like that. You know, not all illness is confined to physical illness. Sometimes the results are serious or even more serious. MS. ISBELL: You are speaking really of mental illness. That_,is something that we must live with. If the person cannot discern that he needs to_ make an-_.interim;,appoint- men-t or- if--the doctor feels that he cannot absolutely say that he canhot- make his own decisions then you must either use impeachment or live with him until the end of his term. MR. SCHUTTE : With regards to the same section will you try to do this and tie it down so that by law an individual who cannot perform he has no other recourse but to be removed from office. . . . . MS. ISBELL: No, you could never do that. It would have to be as an interim appointment unless he resigned. MR. SCHUTTE: In this particular instance now if he has the opportunity and I think Cluney from Molokai wasin the same position. He felt he could not continue his duties as a councilman and as a result he resigned from the council--in this case here that would solve all of the problems. MS. ISBELL: It is really better if they would resign, right. MR. SCHUTTE: So I am only assuming then'. that the councilman_ that you are possibly referring to does not feel that he is is continuing and as a result does not want to resign. . - 24 - MS. ISBELL: That is right. He personally feels that he will be back in a few months. But during this period of time we are without representation on a truly honest basis. We have councilmen coming over from Waimea and from Ka'u right now but as you know this island is really big and it is very difficult and a hard thing to do when you don ' t live in that district to come over and listen to the problems of the people and to really be in touch with them. That is another reason we feel districts are so much better-- the single member. MR. SCHUTTE: So your. suggestion _is based around the fact that ii such a case as exists today you could appoint somebody to represent him. MS. ISBELL: He cannot as it exists today. MR. SCHUTTE: I know but what you are sugges- ting is that this be made allowable. MS. ISBELL: And Mr. DeLuz agreed with that. When I_ talked to him he felt-,.that that is a good point to make because he felt bad that he couldn ' t do more and yet he knew he was going to get well. Of course, you know we must believe we are going to get well to get well . He would have liked to have an interim appointment for somebody to help him out. It would have taken a lot of pressure off of him too because he did come back, as you know, and was able to fulfill his duties. So will William Kawahara. He will be back and he will be back representing us again very soon. But until that time we are really struggling and it is a difficult thing to go without a representative. Unless you have ever been in a district without a representative it must be very difficult to realize it but you find out what it is like when a problem comes up and you don ' t know who to go to. And you don ' t really know the other councilmen all that well , sometimes. Many of the people don 't. MR. CADINHA: I have one other request, Ms. Isbell. The public hearings that we are going to hold should give an opporta.nity for an answer. With regard to your recommendation No. 3 on property taxes I ' ll just give you a couple of concerns if you could go back and look and see how you would accomodate these concerns. With regard to properties that are zoned other than residents. There is a good chance of discrimination especially with industrial and commercial use. When an outside capital intensive industry wants to come in they can conceiv- ably be taxed at a much higher basis than a domestic corpora- tion with a like property. That is an area. Secondly, with regard to residents on a stepped up basis. My children come out from college, hopefully they go and finish, and they come back into the community and would like to come back into the community. They are going - 25 - to attempt to buy a home like everybody else. They are going to buy a home at the highest price a seller can sell it to them at. The tax burden on the younger population entering employment is going to be much higher than dad ' s tax burden. Perhaps the segment of the population that can least afford the tax. It' s an inequitable tax burden as time progresses. And that ' s a concern. If you could look at that within the framework of your suggestion and come up with some solutions at the hearing, I would appreciate it. MS. ISBELL: Thank you very much. I app- reciate that. There must be some way to make it right. I would again then like to thank you very, very much for this opportunity. I enjoyed your questions. I know I must do a little bit more on the property tax. That wasn ' t one of my main things, as you know. I 'm really better on the other ones. But still it gives us something to work on as well as you. I certainly hope that you will take into consideration the things that we have brought up because it does represent many, many people in Kona. The concerns-are there and we feel very strongly about this. CHAIRMAN SAKATA: We do thank you for your concern and appearing before us. Thank you very much., MS. ISBELL: Thank you, we' ll see you in Kona or elsewhere. When you come over, drive carefully. RECESS: At 4:57 p.m. the Chair called for a short recess. RECONVENE: At 5 : 14 p.m. the meeting reconvened with all members present. APPROVAL The Chair called for the approval of minutes OF MINUTES: dated March 20, 1979. Motion was made by Mr. Trulson. Seconded by Mr. Yagong and un- animously carried. COMMUNI- The following communication was considered : CATIONS: Comm. 37: Letter from Ruth Tabrah, Chairman, Hawaii County Committee, Democratic Party of Hawaii , dated March 25 , 1979 regarding amended language of proposal to Charter Section 13-4 ( f) . Mrs. Iwamoto made the motion to receive and file Communication 37. Seconded by Mr. Trulson and unan- imously carried. - 26 - RULES OF The Chair called for a motion to accept PROCEDURE: the Rules of Procedure. Motion was made by Mr. Schutte. Seconded by Mr. Trulson and un- animously carried. ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business , the meeting was adjourned at 5 : 20 p.m. until Tuesday, April 10, 1979 at 3: 30 p.m. , Hawaii County Counciiroom. r.;Joan Carnett RECORDING SECRETARY -1 27 -