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Home My WebLink About2018-07-02 Game Management Advisory Commission Minutes Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 Game Management Advisory Commission County of Hawaii Minutes Meeting Date: Monday, July 2, 2018 Time: 6:29 p.m. Place: Hawaii County Building – Council Chambers I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL: Meeting was called to order at 6:29 pm. Stanley Mendes, District 1 – here Dwight Yoshina - District 2 – here James O’Keefe - District 3 – here Naniloa Poglen, District 4 - here Thomas H. Lodge, District 5 - here Grayson Hashida - District 6 - Bronsten-Glenn “Kalei” Kossow, District 7 - here Teresa Nakama, District 8 – here District 9 - vacant Quorum established ALSO PRESENT: Malia Hall, Corporation Counsel Donna Urban-Higuchi, Executive Assistant to Mayor Kim GUESTS: Laura Schuster, Cultural Resource Program Mgr. /Hi Volcanoes National Park James Manaku, Waianae Hunter and Subsistence Practitioner Richard Hoeflinger – Bird Hunter J.B. Friday, -University of Hawaii Cooperative Extension Services Update on Rapid Ohia Death. II. APPROVAL OF MINUTES NP: Nani Pogline moved for approval of the April 3, 2018 minutes as submitted. Seconded by James O’Keefe and carried unanimously by voice vote. III. BUDGET REPORT 1 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 IV. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. TL: Committee Report TN: This is Teresa in Kona. I was wondering if everybody got my email. I’ve attached Malia Akutagawa’s research report regarding the work she did on the DLNR requesting licenses for recreational fishermen. Did everybody receive that – it says an evaluation of proposed of Hawaiian non-commercial marine fishing register permit and license design scenarios and policy recommendations for resolving potential conflicts with native Hawaiian rights. NP: Teresa I did receive it but I haven’t had time to study it. TN: For the record, I sent in my committee report for everyone to read. JO: James O’Keefe moved to accept Teresa Nakama’s report. Seconded by Nani Pogline and carried unanimously by voice vote. JO: May we put it on the agenda for next meeting? TL: You want to put that on the agenda, Teresa? TN: That would be excellent and if anybody has questions – I think we should invite Malia to come and explain to us the work she did. TL: OK. We’ll get it on the agenda for next month’s meeting. TN: Thank you. V. PRESENTATIONS 1. Laura Schuster – Hawaii Volcanoes National Park Superintendent – History and Expansion of Volcanoes National Park LS: I was asked to give a presentation about sort of a little bit of the history of the acquisition of land at Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and I did put something together for you so let’s begin and as far as moving through the slides – that’s my option here – I have a mouse and an arrow on the board here, so, this is a new set-up for me, so, let’s begin. Hawaii National Park and, um, transitions into Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and we’re gonna start a little bit before 1916 and I’ll take you up to currently 2018. But first a little bit of interest, so, with every new park created the community plays a key role in its making. National parks are public treasures maintained for future generations as close to their natural state. Preservation of natural and cultural resources prevails. The summit of Kilauea has been and continues to be a focal point of this 2 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 national park – Hawaii Volcanoes. The first lands to be acquired for the park were described to the western world in 1832 – that – by Reverend William Ellis. He described them as a sacred place where Hawaiians rarely ventured. Remember that in 1932 that was just 42 years after the explosion event – similar to what we are having right now – that killed many of Keoua’s army as they were overcome by an ash laden cloud as they departed the summit towards Kau. Kilauea is a place for the akua. As we know today and understand that the summits of our mountains are sacred places – the summit of Kilauea is the home of Pele-honua-mea and is considered the piko of the earth. th So 19 century Hawaii was – at the time of this drawing was made in 1887 – under the rule of Kamehameha descendents Hawaii was a kingdom. This drawing is from the Volcano House guest book – the hotel was located at the summit and over the years hosted various individuals including kings and queens of Hawaii. Others of important from Hawaii and around the world. th Popularity and travel in the 19 century was – century and events that occurred – that we occurring in other parts of the world – for example – Krakatoa was eruption in 1883 – the U.S. Exploring Expedition that was in the Pacific and stopped off in Hawaii to map Mauna Loa and other various places in the Pacific helped to make Hawaii and Kilauea specifically, a tourist destination. Eventually, the inevitable would happen that that was that Kilauea Volcano became a focal point for many who journeyed here from all points of the compass – so popular as it became – the suggestion of making it a national park seemed to be the next best thing to preserve such a wonderful th place. So by the end of the 19 century a combination of visitor interest, scientific enquiry and prominent government and non-governmental individuals were – worked together to solidify a vision that became Hawaii National Park. Now in this map of the Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, as we know it today, the National Park Service manages 330,000 acres of land in two districts of Hawaii Island: Puna and Kau. The boundaries include 13 ahupuaa and one ili. However, in the beginning – in 1916 – the Park started with considerably fewer acres. So who was the scientist involved in establishing the Park? TL: When it first did get – how many acres were there on the initial. LS: I’m coming to that, as we come to it. So who was the scientist involved in establishing the park – who is the prominent non-Hawaiian businessman but born in Hawaii. Who were the government officials? So we have Thomas Jagger, we have Lorrin Thurston, Hawaii Territorial Governor Walter Frear, Prince of Hawaii, oh, Prince of the Hawaiian Kingdom and Representative to the U.S. Congress – John Kuhio Kalanianiole. These four were linked out of necessity and took park in creating the vision of what was not Hawaii National Park. Public support, scientific interest, and the visitor interest were the 3 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 drivers for the creation of this national park. The Territory of Hawaii had possession of the lands as did Bishop Estate, at the time. The Hawaiian Organic Act of 1900 had given the possession, use and control of the government lands to the Territory of Hawaii. They had the right to give the land away – that was their – at that time. Representative Kalanianaole presented the bill to congress to establish Hawaii National Park and finally, after a number of iterations of that bill – it was passed and after all the land surveys and land parcels were donated to the federal government. So then we have the final bill that was presented to congress and approximately 35,868 acres of Kilauea summit and 17,920 acres of Mauna Loa was included in the original bill, as well as, a strip of land that was to connect those two parcels. The final bill, as it was rewritten by December o 1916, also included Maui and later what we know as Haleakala. So the Park is established by an act of congress and was signed into law by President Woodrow Wilson on August 1, 1016. The Park, although established, didn’t have a superintendent immediately and it wasn’t until 1921 that an official blessing ceremony on the rim of Halemaumau occurred where both Hawaiian and western blessings were offered. Funding eventually made its way to the Park but much of the infrastructure was provided by donations and that’s our Hawaii Pacific Parks Association that was their – began in these very early years of the National Park so... And this is our enabling legislation and I’ll share this again – this slide again a little later. But this was the original map – this is one of the very early maps – this was actually before it went to the 1915 Congress and this was done in 1910 and it doesn’t include any of the lands on Maui. This was just really the focus is Kilauea here and that was really what Hawaii Volcanoes National Park was about – it was actually Hawaii National Park and it was just Kilauea, primarily, with Mauna Loa as a secondary addition so in this sort of more modern view of the Park and the Park lands here – this is a familiar map for those that come to the park – from a bird’s eye view with Kilauea Volcano as the prominent feature and Mauna Loa draped in cloud cover. Here you can see that strip of land – here, I’ll see if I can – it’s somewhere right in here that goes straight up – it’s narrow by Bird Park area and it crosses up and goes up to the summit – or actually the road doesn’t go to the summit it goes to the 6,000 foot elevation. So here you can see the strip of land – so remember that Kilauea – the active volcano – was the primary focus of the Park development. The same volcano that was active – th 60% of the 19 century. 60% of the time there was activity in Kilauea – in the caldera Halemaumau and with what we know today – not - that 90% of its surface is covered every 1,000 years so it’s predictable, in a way, that we have these activities going on that we do have today in Puna. So these three rules came out of a letter between some of the Secretary of the Interior and the two – the Director of the National Park Service and these were sort of the operating principles for the acquisition of any lands and that must meet these three rules. So that National Park Service – so as many of you may or may not be familiar with federal government as much as a – say as an employee – where we do know the Department of Interior is our, sort of, umbrella agency 4 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 – and so the National Park Service is one of those agencies under the umbrella of the Department of Interior and the purpose of the Department of the Interior is really to protect and manage the nation’s natural and cultural resources. We provide scientific and other information about those resources and honor the trust responsibilities or other special commitment that to American Indians, Alaska natives and affiliated island communities. The U.S. Forest Service, on the other hand, is a part of the Department of Agriculture and not part of the Interior Department and they have a different focus of intent for their lands that they manage so... And this statement here is that the Park Service, which employees park rangers – is interested in the preservation of land in its natural state and that’s a primary piece of any Park Service legislation – so when you’ll see that in the Organic Act that we that is – that was passed 24 days after Hawaii Volcanoes became a park there was actually the Organic Act came a little bit later for the Park Service as a whole. So and the language that is in the Organic Act really mimics what was in the enabling legislation for Hawaii Volcanoes National Park – so when you see the Organic Act – it’s very familiar – you read through it and so you’ll see the same kind of language used for Hawaii Volcanoes National Park or Hawaii National Park at the time. th So as we progressed into the early part of the 20 century there were a number of acts of congress – these are bills that have to go forward and have to be vetted through congress in order to be implemented within the state. For our part – we can start off with the Act o 1920 and then early on these are acts that identified specific land pieces to become – to be included in the Park itself and so over this last century a number of these acts were introduced for various reasons and I’m gonna give you a few of those reasons here. So early on, you know, the area surrounding the summit was an area used for grazing animals. A number of ranches were in the neighborhood and landowners – Bishop Estate and others – other lands that were leased from Bishop Estate and managed by individual, private entities – at that time allowed leases to be held by individuals who managed large tracts of land that eventually were included in the Park. So Ainahou is one of those examples – but that didn’t come to us until the 70s. So this included land where Kilauea Military Camp is and I’m not sure if you knew that that particular parcel of land was originally Bishop Estate and it came to the National Park Service in 1922. So by 1930 we have – this is a particular interest – this particular act by the time that it was modified over the years and implementation went into the 60s basically for this particular act and it included language to allow adjacent community members access to the Park lands in Puna – later referred to as the Kalapana Extension. And the individuals that were living in that area of Puna – adjacent to the Park – had special commitments – the federal government made special commitments to them and they were identified in the act – so individuals from that community who have maintained a residence in Puna maintained their special relationship and special status within the Park. So this allows some of those 5 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 individuals to come in and fish whereas other people are not allowed to do that – but because they were part of that original bill they have access rights. So in 1961 – was the separation of Haleakala and Hawaii Volcanoes National Park so from Hawaii National Park it went into two different parks. And then finally, we just have two additional ones that were really focused in the Park and this was the Olaa Tract in 1978 was added – a portion of the ahupuaa of Olaa and it’s managed as a wilderness and “wilderness” is a very specific designation also by an act of congress – it’s a law – when it was implemented in the 70s – that allows the managing agency to treat the access and activities on that land by a strict set of rules that maintains a specific set of values that allows visitors into the wilderness to experience the natural sounds, sights and nature without being disturbed – so without a lot of background noise – no engine noises – no things like that – so it’s a natural environment and they want to keep it as close to the natural environment as they can. Now the final piece of legislation that came into play for Hawaii Volcanoes is the Act of 2000 – now what this did was it allowed the Park Service to acquire lands on adjacent boundaries and this was last implemented – well, it may be implemented quite soon here – but the largest piece that we acquired was the Kahuku section that was 117,000 acres of Kahuku Ranch and a location that was rarely visited by the general public and now it is open as a public area and even cowboys who knew the area but had not had access to it unless they had cattle there – love going to see the Kahuku area. So finally here I’ve just posted again the National Park Service Acts and for all to read once again as this is really the focus of the National Park Service – it is what makes us National Park Rangers no matter what our specific job for the National Park may be. So we are all public servants and speaking for myself – it has been a most remarkable experience. Thank you very much and here we are looking into the crater as it’s changing daily. Do you have any questions? TL: The National Park has been of interest to everybody in Hawaii for a long time. Also to the people here who are interested in the Park – about hunting. And that hunting was never part of the Park but everybody in here can tell you there’s been hunting going on in the Park for years and up until the 70s or maybe in the 80s. It is still a concern. We have a gentleman here from Honolulu who is also going to be talking to us about the erosion of rights of people and one of those rights is hunting. I’m not laying this on anyone – but the rest of your presentation is of interest to me – especially the expansion – Is the total 230 today? LS: Three hundred and thirty thousand. TL: Three hundred and thirty thousand. This is a concern of ours – we enjoy having the opportunity to have people like yourself help us and explain. NP: Right. You mentioned preservation of cultural rights. 6 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 That confuses me because what is the definition of culture – cause in Hawaii it is a cultural history of hunting and gathering in the land and that seems to be getting wiped off the map and that’s not your kuleana but that’s a concern – Why is that aspect of culture being ignored? LS: I’m actually born and raised here in Hawaii and my understanding of cultural rights – that they were pretty much managed by the konohiki and within the Park, I mentioned specifically the number of ahupuaa – cause there are quite a number of them – and it would have been – most of that land that we acquired was basically crown lands so it was not in – necessarily in the hands of the makaainana and it was managed. NP: Crown land is land that belongs to the people. LS: Right and it was given as it was – as I explained – that the Territory of Hawaii made that gift to the federal government to protect the area of Kilauea and I think in today’s world one of the things that we do at the Park when we have conflicts and particularly as we go through the National Historic Preservation Act – we have kupuna that come from both districts and we talk to them and discuss with them the issue at hand and how do we approach something like this particular issue that you have presented to me and I would refer to them and have that discussion with them. There are some things, as I said, we can do other things we can’t do. And traditionally, the pigs and other animals that were brought to Hawaii were managed in much more – like as in animal husbandry so to maintain them- the fact that there were so many cattle that really damaged this island and, of course, the pigs are doing, some of that as well and we have to – we have to find a balance. NP: Balance is good – about the complete abolishment is the question. TL: Can I relate an anecdote of my mother. My mother – used to spend days up at the Volcano and she loved the Thurston Lava Tube and many of those people were her friends – but she used to like to go out and do \[sounds like tree\] things for petroglyphs and things like this and she got really disappointed as time went on because the petroglyphs – the rocks that the petroglyphs were carved into often had cracked and she’d find weeds or something growing through the things so the thought was – and then this is also because they have been a massive eradication of goats that was up there as well and my mother’s not a hunter – my dad wasn’t – my mother wasn’t – but she – out of that conversation that she had \[unclear\] it seemed like that because there was no animals eating the weeds and all of this kind of stuff it allowed these things to, you know, the grass to grow and cracked these rocks and so forth 7 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 and then I heard too that the volcano had sort of accepted that as maybe a possibility and brought the goats back in. Is that true? LS: Not that I’m aware of bringing goats in – I think those of us – as there are some that say that might be a good tool to use if they’re corralled – if we talked to any of the botanists I think that there’s quite a bit and concern and real concern about losing so much of the native vegetation so, I mean, with a lot of the browsers - we’ll lose quite a number, we lose plants all the time. TL: Our purpose is not to debate with you... LS: I’m not... I’m just throwing that out there. NP: Right - it’s not in your job description to make these rules and changes. You’re just reporting to us and we appreciate that a lot. I want to point out that preservation of culture should include a balance of preserving hunting and our wild game resources and I have a book – Spirit of Place It’s a documentation of petroglyphs and goats and pigs are documented in petroglyphs so they go way back in cultural history. LS: Not goats so much but until Vancouver brought them. NP: They became Hawaiian when the king accepted them as a gift. TL: Does anyone else have any questions? KBK: Miss Schuster, Is your presentation online or anywhere we can look at that? I was curious about the legislation that you had posted in there. LS: We have some centennial publications and I can – if I have your address I can send you something. KBK: OK. That works. NP: Is there a fee or cost to do the trails out at Kahuku Ranch? LS: At the moment, I don’t think there is but that could change. NP: Do you know about the schedule of fencing and eradication out there. LS: It is fenced. NP: When did the fencing get completed? 8 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 LS: Well, it may not be completed yet, but we do have fences. We have fences along the boundaries and there were fences there when we acquired the property and so we had them... NP: Do you know what method of eradication they’re doing? LS: I think they’re having community hunting as well... NP: Is there helicopter shooting? LS: Not that I’m aware of. NP: They’re just rounding up with ground troops. LS: They’re on their feet. NP: Are they taking every single one? LS: The Mouflon there – there’s some really interesting biology that has been done on that Mouflon. I’m not sure after you read it you’d want to eat it so... NP: The concern is now these fences are in there completing a circle around the whole – so it’s interfering with migratory patterns of our remaining game resources. They’re migratory animals – so that’s a real concern for our natural resource... We don’t understand why they can’t give passage to migratory animals so that they can find good foraging and survive well. When they can migrate they do less damage to the native species, you know, they keep moving so that’s just as sad thing that that’s over looked. LS: As I tried to show the purpose of the national parks and the preservation effort – that’s pretty much where we are. NP: We were voted by the people of Hawaii as a commission to protect our game resources and in one of our missions we’re to protect traditional, cultural gathering rights along with protecting our game resources. So we also have our job to do which should be recognized - so appreciate that... RW: OK. My name is Rick Wirick. I’m actually running for County Council District 5 – I’ve got some questions related to this – I have worked for the national park service as well as the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service and I’ve been able to see the difference between the two agencies. In this particular case – as I’m listening to the testimony or history – it looks to me like it was the Governor of the Territory of Hawaii who originally turned this over to the National Park Service. It appears to me, especially with the traditional hunting and fishing 9 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 rights that did exist at the time – that perhaps they didn’t know the difference between the Department of Interior and the Department of Agriculture – meaning that this would be more like the Department of Agriculture in that it should have allowed for the hunting and fishing to continue. It doesn’t seem like the Territory of Hawaii would have ever considered it being locked up so that it couldn’t be used for the purposes that it was being used before. NP: They didn’t know... RW: Yeah, and that’s what I’m saying – they didn’t know. Now we move ahead to this time and, I guess, my question is – especially with the resurgence in the fact that we do have those that represent the Territory of Hawaii – could this be renegotiated – in other words – renegotiated in a way that could accommodate a balance where we could regain cultural items that have been lost because what we’re seeing now is that every time the preservations steps in it appears to imbalance rather than balance what’s there and, again, I’m relatively new to the Island – I came from western Colorado and so we have lots of game out there – lots of game management – and in this particular case, I guess what I see it just from the very beginning a lack of understanding of how these lands were to be managed and now these restrictions that are on especially for those – not just those who were originally here – the Hawaiians and so forth – but the generations that came after that continue on this experience that is so important to our island – the animals that we have out there – the necessity for our hunters – the necessity for our fishermen community – so I guess I’ll leave it at that. TL: Well, we’re gonna have a gentleman here that is gonna talk to us a little bit about that. You may be able to talk to him later on – but this is the – the purpose of this of – of bringing that Park in is exactly that. We were wanting to look what the history is and... RW: Thank you for your time.... JK: My name is James Kemana Kushinya \[sp? – called around but no one knows who he is and he didn’t sign up\] concerned parent, grandparent, great-grandparent. And \[unclear\] and cultural practitioner. So my concern is that you know it confuses me. The National Park can recognize the Indians and the Eskimos and I know they’re not Indians but that’s what we were brought up with to, you know, as we know them, so, but how come they have all of these cultural rights and then you excluding the Hawaiians. LS: Yeah, it’s not that the Park Service – well, the Park Service is because of the what, what’s happened is that... JK: But we’re all indigenous people now? 10 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 We’re all the same – the first people here LS: I understand that... JK: But you folks recognize two other... LS: It’s actually the federal government – the bigger federal government. JK: OK, ma’am. Well, let’s look at the federal government so now they recognize two different places and yet they have another place and they saying to us we not going to recognize you. Why is that? And let me explain why – as a concerned parent and grandparent and great grandparents – we’re worried about my future generations \[unclear\]. I’m not sure what – how can you folks do this but I mean this sounds more like one lawsuit than one, you know, I don’t know what’s the matter with the federal government. How can they recognize indigenous people from around the world and then forget about us because for me – I go into the mountains – I depend on the resources – whether it being medical or just food resources and I’m totally against your guys eradication and I’m not sure if you understand this but you know on Oahu we hear about helicopters going into Kahuku... LS: I understand. I think, I think those of us in cultural resources across the board are often confused as well because there are decisions that are made and there’s just a certain path that it’s taken and often times it doesn’t make any sense so and I don’t know how to fix it there’s not anything that – I think we can try and understand and work together and I think... JK: Well, you know, we really, really appreciate it because somehow they can recognize one way and then, you know, disregard us here in Hawaii and that’s not fair... LS: Yeah, definitely, understand them as well. TL: OK. Thank you... I should probably have someone else running this meeting but before we move on to James I’d like to make a couple of introductions and one of them is to Abraham Antonio if he’d stand up and raise his hand – two things about Abraham that I want to bring to your attention: number one he’s interested in becoming a commissioner for District 5 and number two he just an organization that I belong to – Richard Hoeflinger has belonged to in the past – the Pig Hunters of Hawaii – which was one of the very most successful organizations in slowing down a lot of what’s been going on. And he’s taken it to heart and I really give him credit and we’re welcome to do it and any of you, I mean, he’d probably take your money anyway even though he’s not official yet, but, you know, anybody who is interested in the 11 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 preservation of our resources – Pig Hunters in the past has been – has had a very, very good reputation – so I do thank you Abraham and I give you credit. Next I’d like to introduce Keen Umeda who is our new commissioner and I was hoping that Keen would get to the microphone and give us a little background as to who you are. KU: My name is Keen Umeda. I was very fortunate to be able to hunt in the 70s and 80s where our resources and animals were very plentiful. I’m here basically for our future, our kids – we need to get them out of this video game and TV and that’s my main concern. If they can do some hunting – I think that would really make a difference – not just in our county but in the world and I’m sure everyone knows what’s going on in our country – in our schools, you know, all this violence and if we can start now I think we can stop that. My background is – I’m an avid precision rifle shooter – I still compete – and I like to encourage people to get out there and hunt as well as target shoot. Thank you for your time. NP: Thank you. 2. James Manaku – Waianae Hunter and Subsistence Practitioner – DLNR Responsibilities for Protecting Our Resources TL: Thank you. Mr. Manaku – if you’d be kind enough to join us here - the floor’s yours and I’m gonna let Nani run this section. NP: No,no. I just want to thank you James Manaku. He flew all the way from Oahu to come be with us tonight and I really appreciate it. JM: I want to thank all of you - it’s so hard to get out information, yeah? As you know, I’m a recognized cultural subsistence PR actioner and gatherer by the State of Hawaii and by the Board of Water Supply. I was asked to come and share what I do. Actually, what I did was go according to the laws and the Constitution of the State of Hawaii – that’s what it is – and then, if we look at it – you’ll see that – in Article 12 7.1 – it says we have access and we have gathering, so I don’t hunt anymore – e kala mai – I go gather pork – or I go gather venison – or I go gather goat, you know, and first of all – I like to really thank our ancestors because, you know, you were right – when the proteins came to Hawaii, you know, it was so valuable, that our king accepted all of it: goats and the deer. Because they knew, if we never had the protein that was necessary – because they brought the pig – that we would end up like Easter Island, yeah? Cannibalizing ourselves, so, I want to thank them and I also want to thank the guys in 1959 – excuse me \[unclear\] – I’m Portuguese and I cannot talk like that – but anyway – so in 1959 they took the concern of our needs and that’s why Article 12 7.1 says we have the right to access and we have the right to gather but what I’d like to share is how I was taught and this Thursday I’ll be 72 – so I was hunting in the 50s. 12 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 TL: I don’t mean to interrupt – it’s somewhere in here you and I had talked about what you were seeing about what they’re doing with the lands and the game that’s entrusted to them... JM: OK. Tom, I actually came here for another reason also. You see, as a concerned parent, grandparent and great-grandparent, you know, a few generations, you know, I’m looking at how we can somehow make the DLNR become responsible for their responsibilities they accepted which is to protect the three Ps anyway, but anyway, you know, I’m so sorry, but that’s their duty – that’s what their job description says – it doesn’t say, oh, well, you know what – we going kill this animals because they doing this. If they had a problem they should have came see all of us because you know they – all of us on every island can use free meat. As you guys know – just today, you know, our President just went – oh, he thought he was slick – he went put tariffs on the Third World Countries – that’s what they did to us – they made it worse for us because presently you guys know we’re in the Jones Act so everything that comes here has to go to the West Coast first – taken off the ships, stored, then taken back and put on our ships with American crews and send ‘em down here – so our – all of our food that we getting here it beginning to become ridiculous, you know, so it’s so important that all of these people that accepting all of these lands will understand – it’s our livelihood. It’s our way of life. And, you know, if they – you having a problem with that – please tell us – don’t go and hire somebody because they shooting ‘em from the helicopters. Excuse me, but, you know, I’m not throwing anybody one lie or anything but I know they shooting from the helicopters – that’s the only way you can shoot a lot of goats and then on Oahu they using silencers. One night – one day I went up there – I found fifteen goats one place. Any of you hunt? One shot – what happens? No, no. But say, for instance, you shot the animal and he died that one shot? You see, if you get 200 goats – they never stay right there and wait for you shoot fifteen more of them. The first thing they going do is that. So I found out that they – I’m not sure it was the State but I know the military went allow them to use that on their side of our valley and side and I’m totally against that because, you know, when they shooting this up they don’t know about us guys in there trying to provide food for our family or medicine – so It’s so important – I don’t know how we can do this – but I think – I was attending a lot of the Department of Land and Natural Resources meeting and I been trying to tell them and every time when I bring up a concern they tell me but no worry – you no have to worry because we not – like the fishing license. If you notice it said non, \[unclear\] Hawaiian – they should have said non-residents but, ah, but they said non, non – the kind how they do it – Alaska – but, you know, it’s getting hard for us and it’s getting harder for me because that’s an example. I’m not pure 13 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 Hawaiian – I’m Hawaiian-Portuguese-Irish and I’m proud of all my nationalities but I’m so proud that I was born, of all places, I was born in Hawaii because what I’ve learned here is so much more better than what I’ve learned other places – so I’m trying to see how I can get you folks help and it would be really nice if you guys can, you know, if all of the hunters can support the idea of suing the Department of Land and Natural Resources – they not for personally – but as a whole group so that they become more responsible for their duties that they’re supposed to be taking care of because it’s getting hard and like I said, I have 26 grandchildren, four great grandsons next month my first great-granddaughter and, you know, I’m concerned about their future and I’m not concerned only for myself but as Hawaiians but I’m also concerned about how who I am. My mother – my father fell in love with my mother. My father was Hawaiian my mother was Portuguese-Irish, and so all about children do that – every nationality we get \[unclear\] – so I’m looking at not only you for us – I’m looking at for all of our future generations because they all hunt – everybody hunt – you pure Orientals, excuse me, no disrespect – but, you know your son or daughter going marry one Hawaiian – no matter – because what we as parents – we try to support our children in the partners that they choose and so I’m concerned about them and their future so that’s why I’m here today and I’ve enjoyed the fact that I’ve become a recognized cultural practitioner and, you know, and all it is – is having respect. All these – Mr. \[unclear\] he knows – Ernest Lau knows who’s head of the Board of Water Supply knows that I’m not a vandalist, malicious or a bad person and in fact when I go in any place that I go – if I see something that I can do – I do it – no problem – I no even go think about, you know, what – the – everything – I just do something, so, I’m just concerned, like I said and but how can we be a practitioner if we no more animals? And, if we going get rid of the animals let’s get rid of the ones that compete against the birds that they concerned about. Because pigs and goats and deer – they don’t eat the nuts and the fruits that the birds eat, so thank you folks very much for allowing me this time – e kala mai, yeah? NP: I just wanted to point out – so on this side we have all this land being taken, fenced, eradicated – on this side there’s very real people like yourself – historical, cultural resources being taken away – you’re real – real people are being deprived of their culture and their history and their resources. And that’s the point we wanted to make – that there are real people being completely ignored and pushed aside. Thank you so much. JM: Oh, thank you very much. TL: Any questions for James from the public? 14 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 RW: My name is Ric Wirick. And one of the main things running for this position for is to unite our farmers, ranchers, hunters and fishermen, so I’m really here to learn tonight. I’m listening. I’m trying to take it in and so this is a question for you – but in general – a question – as I’ve been talking to the farmers and ranchers I’m seeing that it’s the State, actually, that gets in their way – the State restrictions are getting in their way. As I’m listening to this tonight it’s coming up again. One the one hand we have a national parks and on the other hand we have the State and I guess what I’m here to ask tonight is a subject that came up in our first debate and that was a word or wording called “Home Rule.” In other words – where the County can begin to decide what is best for the County and this particular case for the Islands. At what point in time and maybe this is where this can be answered is can the Island step up – the County step up to do what’s right for their island and in this particular case to get the ability to hunt and fish without the restrictions put on us by the DLNR and so I guess that’s one of my questions here tonight. I’m again trying to learn all of this right now and if you have a strong County Council that’s able to step up for you and support you in this and that is, you know, with all of you here tonight doing this as a commission of volunteers – this is the type of thing where I’d really like to work together because this is a real component to being able to feed ourselves, to be able to feed our islands – your concern, exactly, I mean, we have to look at that realistically – we can’t just step back and say it’s not going to happen if those containers stop – people will starve. It’s that easy – so I’m asking how we move towards the “Home Rule.” TL: One of the things that happened – Nani very eloquently mentioned how it is we came to be and we were voted in to be – we were voted in nine county districts with a 2/3rds vote – those that voted 2/3rds of them said, hey, we want to have somebody to start \[unclear\] our forest. People are getting tired of what’s happening in our forests – they’re getting tired of being pushed around – and so, once we were created – this commission was created – we embarked on creating a State Game Commission, as well, with which we were finally successful in doing. Another thing – to answer your question, James, is the fact that we also were successful in getting a resolution. Our resolution is not law - but it is something that people are supposed to be following as an intent of what the Legislature wants. And that particular legislation or that particular resolution, which was HCR 22 – for the first time ever puts a value on our game, our fish, our game and our birds – mammal, birds and so forth – and on top of that – makes them a sustainability resource. In other words, the State is saying – the Legislature is saying, you know, we need this game here and we’re seeing the need for it right here on this island with the volcano already. We’re seeing people that are going out and harvesting game and feeding people in the neighborhoods. So this is a very real situation and so we do have situations here where we still have people that are utilizing game, sharing it with neighbors and so forth – and a large part of our population here does it as, you know, as a daily thing – it’s just like going to the store and on Molokai 40% of the meals have to do with 15 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 subsistence. And I suspect that those in Puna – where I live – and I see these guys everyday – but there’s a large number of them too that depend upon both fish and game and so these are things that we agree with you on and we are wanting to do what we can and – you know Josiah Drury? JM: Ah, no... TL: OK. He’s Commissioner for State GMAC he’s been working with your group out in Waianae and with Michael Sturm? And Pooya \[John Motlah\]? And in fact Pooya and Josiah were involved in something the other day but... JM: Zacariah? TL: Yes. JM: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve been in touch with him and he’s been seeing that like you know like we’ve been discussing and he recognizes that yes – you know, fortunately, they \[unclear\] losing sight of the subsistence that we depending on, you know, the rest of the workers – I know him very well. TL: So our commission here is – one of the intents of our commission here is to preserve these rights. JM: Thank you. NP: I just wanted to say we have been fighting in the County Council level and we’ve got a lot of things through there but only to be shot down by the State continuously. NP: The voice of the people is not recognized... RW: And I guess that’s one of my questions – “Home Rule” was brought up to, you know, into our discussion last time and I really wondered how it can actually be applied because it really seems like, you know, if we have the State constantly getting in our way and I do see that as the biggest problem we’re facing right now – not just with the hunters and fishermen – but also our farmers and ranchers. In other words – when does the voice of the people be heard? In other words – we’ve elected them – when does the voice be heard? NP: We’ve stomped the pavement at the Legislature and that HCR 22 was one of the things that we got accomplished only for it to be ignored. 16 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 JO: You asked if it was appropriate for our group to join in a suit against the DLNR. Have you explored this with other… JM: Yes, let me bring this – it just came to me that if we get all enough cultural subsistence practitioners and hunters to agree that what the State is doing is wrong- we can file a class action suit against them. I’ve been working with the Native Hawaiian \[Legal\] Corporation and basically what we need is more people behind the concept. JO: Right. Well a group like this – Game Management Advisory Commission – would have standing with the State Commission as well – I think it’s worth exploring. JM: Yeah, because I’m also intending on going to the other neighbor islands and talking to the brothers on Molokai, Maui and Kauai and maybe even Lanai because we have people there that also depend on the resources. JO: We feel like we’re on the wrong side of a one-sided battle and the DLNR’s - the one that has all the tools and lawyers and they adopt whatever the U.S. Fish & Wildlife says – they’ve got to do with this and they say they’re powerless to change. JM: \[Unclear\] all the eradication meetings that they had in Honolulu and, you know, they’re really they’re not looking at that – what they’re looking at – and that’s the problem – every island we’re gonna have – you see, in order to be successful in having hiking clubs and biking tours in the mountain you cannot have us in there and you cannot have the game there because if you have the game there then they will run into the hikers, they’ll run into the bikers, whether they be our dogs or the animals so I, I and, you know, every time when I’ve attended the meetings there are a lot of groups that are doing this now – they are forming hiking clubs and bicycling clubs so that they can bicycle and hike in all of our mountains and that’s what concerns me because like I said – they would have to eradicate the animals and so... NP: Or have a schedule. People can take turns. JM: We hunt by opportunity a lot of times. There are times when we leave 3:00 in the morning to go on Oahu to go to on the other side of the island maybe to hunt and then we come – we get this rule over there – first come, first served – so if you’re there waiting for the animals that’s before them – so you can go into the mountain – normally they would go somewhere else out of, you know, courtesy, yeah, so, you know, so I’m just concerned, you know, how we can prevent these people from taking over our mountain and taking the food out of our mouths. TN: James, may I have your contact number please? 17 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 TL: I can get that to you Teresa. TN: OK. And his email? And Rick, could I have your contact number and your email also? RW: Yes, that would be no problem. TN: Oh, well, contact number is good, James, I want to put you in touch with other hunters here on the island so you have a more supportive group – an organized group – and this is what this island needs and every island – all the hunters need to be supported of the efforts that you have put it into and so if you can talk to the hunters that already have organizations here, I mean, there’s – we have about four organizations here on the west side that you could talk to and I would like to put them in touch with you. JM: Oh, thank you, I’m so grateful for Tom I hope they’re filming this so that they can send it to you and, you know, if you need anything other than what I’ve been sharing, you know, I’d be more than glad to come, as I told Tom, this is our future generations that we’re looking at and we need to protect their rights and... TN: Well, this is what I think is lacking is the unity of all hunters to pull together and take a more legal approach because no one is listening. JM: Yes, ma’am. TN: Not our legislators, not DLNR, not DOFAW, no matter how much we speak as GMAC they’re not listening – no matter how many speakers Tom brings to us they’re still not listening – but if the people speak and they become organized – this is what’s lacking and so maybe we don’t have to have a law suit if we are organized and have our voices heard. When our voices are not heard then something is broken in the system. JM: Yes, ma’am. TN: So let us come in contact with one another, Tom, I would love to be in contact with James and Rick. Mahalo. RW: I would just like to add one more thing to this and that is that I think it’s a great idea – in other words to bring the hunters together but I think we really have to step back and look at this from a bigger perspective. We’re running a back- to-basics campaign – feed ourselves, feed our islands, sustainable agriculture – this is all agriculture. What I’m seeing here and what I’m hearing here tonight is it’s gonna take a lot bigger union than just the hunters. In other words, if we can bring our farmers, our ranchers, our hunters and our fishing 18 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 community into one association then we will start to have the power we need because we’re looking at feed – we’re looking at total agriculture here – we’re not looking – we’re looking at sustainable agriculture – we’re looking at something to actually feed the Islands and in other words if you look over the decades we’ve had governor’s who’ve step up and up and up and say we need to turn this around – we need to work back toward food independence and so far, if you look at it – I mean, we are right now at 80 – 90% dependent on those containers. We have to turn it around and I think we can turn it around by forming an association...island-wide that combines everyone into one. TL: There is one. FALA – Hawaii Hunt Fish and Farm Association – and Makani Christianson is the gentleman that runs that organization. So – give me a call later and I’ll get you in touch with Makani – because that is exactly what that organization was formed for and we contributed a bunch of money to it when they started, actually, and they do a pretty effective job – but you’re right about the numbers and James can actually help us with that, too, if he’s willing to go to Maui and Molokai and talk to people over there and come over here and talk to people and get them also part of that – into that – get them aware of the associations, hey, you need unity – we need to have people working together, you know, and things can start moving and so I do appreciate what you’re talking about cause it’s exactly why our HCR 22 – why our resolution was – which she by the way – hit every single door in the legislature except one. RW: I believe our Hawaii Constitution you brought up today how it protects the hunting and fishing. I know our Hawaii Constitution protects agriculture – in other words – we can use the foundations we have to build on this. All we have to do is come together to make it happen and again if “Home Rule” is where we start that’s where we start – we start with our county. In other words, we have the Constitution standing behind us and if we can, you know, again this is one of the reasons that’s drawn me to the County Council – in other words you have a strong County Council that takes this as their primary objective. I mean, to fee ourselves really should be primary. Agriculture should be primary. In other words, what he’s saying in general for his family is for our Island family, for our community and so, I think, you know, in other words I’m a kind of a serious guy as you can tell already. Part of it is, we, you know, to turn it around. We can turn it around but we have to start with an objective that we’re at. If we’re 80-90% dependent right now... BKK: Aloha. I just have a quick question on just your logistics and your pathway of how you started and who you’ve been talking to and where you are right now? JM: I guess you could say I started a long time ago with a lot of my uncles. They used to take me to the mountains when I was a young boy and funny, you 19 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 know, they never told me about the laws but what they did was teach me how to be respectful – not only of the land we’re on but the landowners that we had to pass through their property often times and so, you know, I’ve been practicing this all my life and in Waianae, where I’m from – a lot of the landowners that know that if I’m in the valley there or I’m on their property they know that I’m a very respectful person so I don’t get the kind of problems that a lot of the hunters get, I guess, so from then I just – when you sit around you hearing people talk about stuff and so in 1994 I was up at Tantalus and a game warden was coming up and I decided not to run because I heard that, you know, my mother always used to tell me learn the law, right, so I heard people talking about the state constitution and I said, well, OK, so I going try ‘em – so that day when the game warden went stop me he told me, you know, I couldn’t read the sign and the sign, of course, said no hunting and permission and all of this stuff, but, ah, so, finally, you know, he tell me, well, you know, you’re not supposed to be hunting and I told him but I’m not hunting and I said something to him that changed my life and so today that’s why I’m doing it now. And all I told him was that I wasn’t hunting I was gonna come up here and gather and my friends that were with me – we’re gonna come up here and gather pork. And from 1994 to today – I have never had a hunting license. I exercise that right. My brother was a fisherman does not pay the launch ramp fees because of the access that we’re allowed, yeah, and it’s not only to the mountain it’s to the ocean as well. So from then on I just try to show – tell all the hunters that I know and I’m well respected in my community – all the hunters know that I only teach good and I talk about good and respect so, that’s where I stand today. TL: I appreciate that. Anybody else have any questions otherwise we’re gonna move on with Mr. Hoeflinger and I do appreciate James. Stick around for – till the end of the meeting, if you could. JM: And thank you folks very much for allowing me to share. Mahalo. DK: My name is Darren Kunewa. I’m a concerned grandfather and uncle. See, I have nephews and that who fish and hunt, you know, this is out South Point – and it’s up in Volcano – Kau and this is just recently, like, you know, weeks, months – and if we – if we get cut off of all these – this is how they feed their family, you know, without this, you know, the food is so expensive in the store so what they do is go out and they got to go feed their families so what they do they hunt and they fish. Yeah, and so when I seen all this and when my cousin came here from the island I wasn’t supposed to be here and then when I came here and I see and I’m worried now, you know, cause my nephew them is what they do is just hunt and fish and my family – my grandfather died in the ocean fishing – from 20 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 way back then to now that’s what we do and now if all this taken away from us, you know, where they going so... DK: I live in Hilo but my family all over Kau and Kalapana wherevers and that’s all we do is – they go South Point and hunt wherever they can go hunt, you know, and now get all the fencing and all over so it’s hard – they have to go sneak here and there just to feed their families, you know, and... NP: So you are a part of history in Kau as hunter or relative of? DK: I was a hunter and I did all this myself back then to now, you know, for how we teach our family. NP: Do you know any of the history of Kahuku Ranch? DK: I’m not really in the history but its just that went out and feed our family and whatever so you know we’re not really, you know, all we thinking about is just going here and there and just feeding family and the history and, you know, I’m one Hawaiian, you know, and my trying – I don’t know how for speak or whatever but I just trying to make, ah, for my children, my grandchildren and that’s where and that’s what they do – I just wanted to show this picture and that’s what they do cause I used to work up at Volcano National Park in Resource Management and all those and I know what she talking about cause we was hunting all the goats and the pigs and gunning ‘em all down – killing ‘em all – eradicating ‘em all and hunting. We’d go out with the dogs and whatever and hunt ‘em and we catch one – the goat – put the strap around – let ‘em go – we find ‘em – go down the road – we track ‘em down – oh, OK, we rode up our horses or whatever – the choppers \[unclear\] – killing ‘em all – eradicate ‘em all. Try not to kill the one with the strap but at’s what we used to do – that’s why I know, you know, what’s going on in there – but I just worried about now with my kids and my grandchildren and all this, you know, cutting off the tract – you the going – you cannot go here you cannot go there... TL: And what DLNR and the federal government and USDA and these other folks are doing is actually getting rid of a resource and they’re doing it without involving you, really... And it’s a huge concern of ours and it’s one of the things that we’re battling in and fighting for very strongly. DK: And there’s a lot kids – my nephews – nineteen, eighteen – and they get kids already and they young, seventeen, fifteen – they get kids already and they got to go out there and feed the kids, you know, and without all this resource they’re stuck, you know, just thank you guys… 21 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 TL: I appreciate that. BKK: Mr. Kunewa this is Kalei Kossow from Kona. What do you see – what do you think GMAC or the Game Management should do and what do you kind of see your vision as – I’m just curious – because you’re a very passionate person and you’re doing this for your nephew, your children? DK: I wish I could just – what I’m thinking, you know, just bring it out – but it’s kinda, you know, I mean, it’s just worrying about my children, grandchildrens and once all these get cut off, you know, once we lose all the access and whatever and all these companies buying, I mean, all the land getting shut off – the States – whatever and we, we don’t want the suffer the kids – my grandchildren are going suffer – they the ones going, you know, coming up and trying to make a living – I going ten years or five years I going be gone already cause I Iiving on borrowed time but now I worrying about what’s happening, you know, now cause they’re – but I now going know when I \[unclear\] my cousin them – now I kinda worried now what they doing behind our backs and what cause I’m now worrying about mine, you know, but thank you guys... DK: One thing is – I know they got huntings all these pig hunting da kine but there are a lot of family who kids not even to in the that organizations or what they just trying to make a living, you know, and that’s the ones I worrying about, you know, the ones on a – just trying to make the living, you know... TL: That’s what we’re worried about and it’s also who Abraham is worrying about – this organization that he just created is exactly that – so you’ve got something to say now... AA: Abraham Antonio, that’s exactly the reason why I’m gonna start up Pig Hunters of Hawaii again because like he said there’s a lot of young generation now that is just stuck at home playing video games and, you know, other things and just – not being guided in the right way and hopefully we – everybody that I’m talking to that seem very educational – I can come up and we can come up with a program to help out with this problem that we get. The other problem is as we all know we have that active lava situation down in the lower Puna district and I hunt all in down that – in that area – that’s a lot of land loss – there’s a lot of young generation like what you said – nineteen, eighteen or whatever – twenty year-olds that get young parents that they cannot support their kids and stuff like that and when I was that age that’s why I was hunting down in that area – granted you hunting in State land which is Malama-Ki Forest Reserve, which now of that forest reserve is half taken now – it’s half of that forest, maybe a little more by now is taken. That’s a big chunk of that forest. All the other lands that people hunt down there is all 22 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 private land – all in the papaya fields if they have access – do not have access permission – poaching – whatever – they still providing for their family. So just – that’s a big area for hunters, for providers, for gatherers that just totally got taken away and I, you know, listening to this and I feel very strongly that that’s why our predecessors were fighting against the fence and stuff like that because now you can go out and hunt up in Volcano, I mean, if they don’t have all these explosions and that’s making it dangerous – but let’s say if the volcano was erupting down in the lower Puna and no explosions up in Halemaumau – that animals would be a good sustainable source. If that place was actually safe to go and hunt and gather – where you could just go right there in the Volcano National Park and gather there. You get Kulani forest – Puumakaala – they fenced it off for the crows for the plants. Now, a lot of the deeper forest is inside those actually breeding grounds for the pigs and any other game animals that’s up there – even get goats – last year I was way, you know, Kulani buffer zone – up by the old boy’s school – and that area is totally pretty much fenced off. We was in the forest reserve land and we could actually hear the sheep and the goats in the forest. I was very surprised cause I thought it was only had pigs up there – but I was so high up where you could hear the sheep crying in the forest. So there’s other sustainable forests, I mean, sustainable animals just where I hunt that I didn’t know that they was there. Now is this all this fenced land that we cannot access and all this land that’s just been taken away but it’s natural disaster. So how can all this younger generation – teenagers to their early twenties – all this land that they just lost – where are they gonna get their other way to feed their families. They want substance that they could pick from. NP: Yeah, good point. AA: So it’s a real big concern that – like there’s a bigger land loss and all that other land that was already lost from the fencing and now we get this natural disaster – that’s just unbelievable. It’s just a concern... MH: So, we might have lost our feed to Kona so we’re trying to figure out – oh, they can hear – OK – so as long as they can hear us then we’re OK. I’m sorry, sir, we need to move on with our presentation with our next speaker – so if you’d like to speak after the speakers are done then you’re more than welcome to come up and speak at that time. RW: It was just one quick question and that was to work with Abraham here it would be really nice in our communities, because a lot of our communities in upper Puna in particular has a real pig problem – so we can work together on that. MH: Thank you. 23 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 \[Random conversations as they reconnect\] TL: OK. We’re bound by one rule because we have a video link to Kona. If that video link is separated that we have to stop the meeting until either it gets reconnected or we may have to just terminate the meeting, so we’ll see what we can do, thank you. And Nora’s gonna \[unclear\] so we’ll be taking a break for a couple of minutes. NA: OK. We’re back online. TL: OK. We’re back in session. 3. Richard Hoeflinger – Bird Hunter RH: Can everybody hear me? If there’s something you don’t understand if you just holler I’ll try to address it as we go along or we could do it afterwards – it’s up to you. The only thing is – I got to tell you – I’ve been shooting for 70 years now and you gotta speak up if you want to talk to me – as Mr. O’Keefe well knows. So what we’re gonna talk about is some data that was compiled by DOFAW within the last year or so and this was the result of a continued badgering about what’s going on with game birds. As you probably know there’s quite a bit of effort to keep a handle on the forest birds on the mountain but prior to fairly recently nobody gave much of a damn about the game birds so some of us have been making an issue with that and what we’re gonna see tonight is the DOFAW went back and resurrected the basic harvest record forms and I think they went back about to about 1980 so there’s information from 1980 until – the last I saw was 2017, but I got to tell you it’s not complete. So there’s a lot of missing stuff – so I went back and asked DOFAW to just give me the numbers – I want to do my own manipulating with the numbers – Shaya Honarvar who’s spoke here before gave a presentation at the State GMAC meeting that was held here, I think in March and she presented some – her plotted data – I didn’t agree kinda with the way she arranged it so I rearranged it that made more sense to me and what I did is I took – well, you’re gonna see tonight two things 1) it’s all of the game birds combined. Shaya split out game birds by species – we could go look at that some time later but right now what you’re gonna see is harvest records for all game birds combined on Mauna Kea. That would be on both sides of the mountain, OK? So we basically went back and pulled the harvest record forms from Kilohana on the west side of the mountain and from Hale Pohaku or Puuhuluhulu on the Hale Pohaku side, OK? So... That’s the compilation of species that we’re gonna talk about and again, it’s for all of these species combined and when you see the data you’re gonna see that there’s some years are missing. I did not include any partial data years – it’s only for years that the data were complete. Shaya threw everything kind of together – I wanted to pull ‘em out – I didn’t know quite how to do what I wanted to do looking at incomplete data so I just took it all out. So you’ll see 24 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 up at the title there it says from 1986 to 2016. Those are the years that I was – the span of years that I was able to get complete data but some years are missing within that. OK. We move on. So Figure 1 as you see is a plot of a total game birds harvested on Mauna Kea from 1986 till 2016. I’m not quite sure what that picture shows – it’s an interesting one but let’s take a closer look at stuff. OK. Figure 2 are the number of hunter trips to the mountain. As you all know, when you go to hunt on the mountain where there’s a kiosk that you can – that has a harvest record form. It has a whole bunch of other stuff they ask for that is totally meaningless and we’re gonna work on trying to get rid of some of that stuff but you sign in at the time you hunt and you basically sign out at the time that you’re leaving and you leave a record of the birds that you took during that trip so – and it doesn’t matter here how long those trips. A five minute trip is counts the same on number of trips as an all day trip does. So what this picture really says to me, anyway, is the number of hunting interests – at least reflected in bird hunting is – if we just look at the last say the last decade it looks like it’s increased quite a bit. That correlates with the number of hunting licenses sold. Hunting licenses over the last ten years are up about 20% which is exactly opposite what they are nationally. Hunting is in decline nationally. OK. So we can get a measure now of hunter success by dividing those two numbers. So what you see on Figure 3 is the game birds harvested per hunter trip. And what this picture tells me is – and by the way we don’t understand the peaks in 2003 and 2005 – it looks like that’s real data but it looks very odd and nobody can put a finger on – we’ve not been successful yet in determining why that is – but if you look from about that point until current time – you can see a general decline in hunting success. In other words, it’s not going in the right direction. Interestingly, I was talking about this at the gun range one day and Jimmy Watt, who’s been at this meeting if you’re a bird hunter everybody knows Jimmy – he’s been on the mountain since – he’s about as old as dirt – he’s not as old as me but he’s gettin’ there –and he told me – he brought one-time to the range – he said here, I got some data that I kept in my journal – he keeps a journal every time he goes out on his harvest success and other stuff he puts in the journal – so I just took his data and I superimposed those on the average so what you see on the red curve is all hunters combined and what you see on the blue curve is Jimmy’s stuff. Now there’s really no surprise there – Jimmy is a dedicated hunter and when he goes on the mountain he doesn’t come home – goes at dark-thirty and comes home at dark-thirty. So Jimmy really puts in the time and he has a good dog and he’s a good bird hunter. So Jimmy’s numbers are higher. He’s more successful and that makes sense. The average is average. I mean there’s a guy in there that couldn’t hit the broad side of barn and there’s good ones and all that but it – but what’s interesting is Jimmy’s data basically shows the same thing – there’s a general decline in hunter success in the recent decade or so and that corresponds to everything I’ve ever seen – I’ve hunted on the mountain for quite some time – you don’t see the – prior 25 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 to the season starting you just don’t see the number of birds along the sides of the roadways anymore in the early morning hours. You don’t see a lot of smashed birds on the highways – you just don’t see ‘em so something’s going on. So if we look at that ten year period again, it’s what I said, the hunting interest looks like it’s increased while at the same time the hunting harvest success is in decline. And if we want to stop that we got to do something about it so that’ll be the next issue is what are we gonna do about it. Before we do that – can we do anything about it – what’s causing it? Now there’s a lot of speculation – I have a scientific background and I deal in facts. Opinion doesn’t do anything for me. Opinion is a little like okoles – everybody has one – so show me the numbers. So what I would suggest is the first place we start instead of going backwards and looking at harvest data why don’t we what intelligent people who manage resources do and try to get a handle on what the hell it is we have. Nobody knows how many game birds we have by specie and where they are. Nobody. OK. Except maybe for some hunters – it’s not gonna come out of 1151 Punchbowl Street – I’ll tell you that right now. OK. Then here’s another look at the same data. For bizarre reason, I’ve never ever been able to understand Hawaii – Hawaii hunters can only hunt on weekends. You gotta understand in the free world this doesn’t happen. I’ve lived in six states now and I’ve hunted in five of them and I’ve never seen such a thing until I came here. The only reason that I can come up with is when these rules were made originally it was during plantation days and probably everybody was so damn busy working during the week days that the weekends were the only time that were open for – that’s the best thing I can commit with – so it’s unique in Hawaii – some of us moved to get more hunting opportunity and in 2002 we got Wednesday added to the hunting days on Mauna Kea and in – and we looked at the data – there were all kinds of opinions on doom and gloom and yada, yada, yada – we looked at the data – we didn’t see anything bad going on so Thursdays were added in 2005. Weekday hunting was curtailed from 2009-2014. This was a result of a lawsuit that was brought that the AG said we gotta go back and reset everything to times prior to this – I don’t want to go into any details – when the new regs came out in 2015 Wednesdays and Thursdays were re-established. So let’s take a look at 2002 – 2008 – that’s a period when there was weekday hunting and what I did is I took those data and separated them from the all the average that we’ve been looking at and there’s the plot – so there is the total game birds harvested – it’s the same one as Figure 1 that we looked at before. The red line is from 2002 – 2008 is the red line and the blue line is the average of all the years that I showed you on Figure 1, OK? Well, again, looking at it over most recent time and again this is the only place I got these data complete is it’s pretty much a wash – I would say. Here’s looking the number of trips – some of the concern when weekdays were established some people claim that the mountain was gonna get overrun with hunters and everything would get blown up and there wouldn’t be anything left – this shows that actually there was no increase in the number of people that hunted – they just hunted on different days which is what we tried to tell 26 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 everybody. If you think about it, there’s basically a pool of people that are gonna hunt and it doesn’t go up much or go down much in a fairly decent period of time – it’s pretty much stable – so if somebody wants – has the opportunity to hunt on a weekday and wants to do that – that’s fine – it’s also in my opinion this weekday business of restricting hunting to weekdays is discriminates against a large class of people. People in emergency services, people in retail sales – they all work weekends. So you got a whole bunch of people that are not allowed to go hunting – OK, and then finally looking at the harvest success – the number of game birds taken per hunter trip it has the same general trend – the red plot looks about like the red one we looked at before where it looks like there’s a general decline in game birds hunting success. So no hunter trip increase with weekday hunting – game resource is still in decline and that this decline appears unrelated to hunting days selection. And that’s what I have. Can I answer any questions? NP: Well, I’ll just tell everybody else – Dave Smith of the DLNR promised to promote game birds and hunting – he did make that promise – just sayin’ another broken promise. TL: Well, he also said that we were going to have four meetings with him on the Game Management Plan and they haven’t had one yet even though they were here. RH: If you all haven’t figured it out yet – hunting is not very big on the radar screen at 1151 Punchbowl Street, which is where the universe begins and ends. TL: I would really like to have you talk to us for a lot more time but we have a gentleman here that also has to give a presentation... 4. J.B. Friday – University of Hawaii Cooperative Extension Services, Update on Rapid Ohia Death JF: I was interested – anytime I see data I’m interested in it. I was already thinking at how I could look at that and look at some other things. So, I’m J.B. Friday. I’m the Extension Forester with the University of Hawaii Cooperative Extension Service. Remind me to give you some brochures on Rapid Ohia Death. Given that it was a fairly short amount of time today – I said I’d just give an update – I know I’ve spoken to you twice before on it – those of you I haven’t spoken for I’m assuming that you know about Rapid Ohia Death – the general – what some of the forest looked like that has been hit with it. So what I wanted to do was give an update on a few highlights in the past year. TL: They’re talking about cleaning your shoes and the boots and... 27 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 Where are they gonna be providing – is that something gonna be at a kiosk and things like that for people to? JF: So what DOFAW has done so far is put boot cleaning stations at all the trail heads so there’s one at Puu Huluhulu – when you go in there there’s a boot cleaning station, as far as that goes. I mean, what I do is I clean my truck off in my base yard when I get back. If I go in one place – I clean the truck before I go off to another place because I go back and forth between areas that are pretty heavily infected and areas that are pristine. Some of the other agencies are working to set-up base yards at other places for vehicle cleaning and such, I’ve always just stopped – I stop at Mountain View – you know, where the baseball park is there behind Mountain View? There’s a fire hydrant there – so one time I had to go from Puna to Volcano – I pulled over to Mountain View – I keep a hose in the back of my truck to clean it off – even just hosing something off is better than nothing – it’s all a matter of anything you can do is better than nothing – anything – but they have put out dozens – more than 30 I think – boot cleaning stations. I know there’s one in Manuka – there’s one at Puu Huluhulu – there’s one at almost all the maintain trail hikes that I know. They’re starting to work on other things like the hunter trails – the main access points that are not the Na Ala Hele system – the Park’s got its own set of things there. OK. So I just wanted to hit some highlights in the time – one of the highlights that we’ve figured out and when I say “we” I mean the big group and when you’re talking about a pathology I mean the pathologist myself – I’m the general forester here on the project – there are two new pathogens killing ohia – and they’re causing somewhat different diseases. This year they were given official Hawaiian names: Ceratocystis lukuohia. Luku is like the Wailuku River the destructive water that’s just north here of Hilo so the destroyer of ohia. The other one is Ceratocystis huliohia – it’s not like huli chicken it’s like you huli your canoe – it overthrows the ohia. The first one that I mentioned lukuohia is the much more aggressive pathogen. It’s killed 90-95% of the trees. If any of you have been down below Pahoa before the eruption started when you could still drive down there those stretches of miles of dead trees – that’s the lukuohia. The other one is a canker disease and may have been here longer – we understand less about it. How does it move around – the main thing that we’re trying to do is a management practice help stop it move around. Once these trees get infected they get in many places – not all – in many places they are attacked by boring beetles, ambrosia beetles – that drill into the trees – create a lot of sawdust. That sawdust is hot in the sense that it has a lot of fungal spores. If it lands on a wound of another ohia tree the disease can spread that way. The other thing and this is where the vehicle cleaning and the boot cleaning and all that come in – if you go into a badly infected stand all that sawdust lands on the ground. If you drive off road – you hike through it – you’re picking it up on your feet and your shoes. That’s why we’re asking people to clean your boots off – clean your shoes off – just get the mud with the sawdust in it off before you go somewhere else – go to a 28 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 different area. That’s the main sanitation part of that. The next part is wounds – this pathogen typically worldwide or pathogens like this worldwide are wound infecting species. It will not – if you just sprinkled some infected sawdust on bark of a tree it wouldn’t get in – it wouldn’t hurt the tree – it needs a wound – a lot of the wounds we can’t do anything about – I’m convinced that a lot of the disease in Puna happened after Iselle came through in 2014 broke branches all across the forest – did a lot of damage – some of the wounds we can do something about – this is a grove of trees that’s adjacent to Hawaii Volcanoes National Park on the way down to Kau side. If you look in the grove there’s no grass – there’s nothing for the animals to eat – they were busy peeling the bark off the ohia trees – all these trees then in that grove got infected or died. This is a question you asked before – this is a map of the Park showing a fence line – this is the – the map is off the website – if you go on the Hawaii Volcanoes National Park and look at their website – they actually have a public map where they have diagnosed on diseased trees – where they have diagnosed ROD trees on it. So on this map green is trees they’ve sampled – obviously there’s a disease but they’re not rapid ohia death – red are. If you look at the inset here – that’s the Kahuku unit. I drew in the fence line there. That’s where the fence line is going across the Kahuku unit. Below the fence line there are a lot of feral goats – above there are not. Below there’s a lot of disease above this one tree – it’s twenty feet from the fence line disease. To me that’s saying that the goats are damaging the trees, the trees are getting diseased. NP: Well they can’t migrate. They’re stuck. They’ll do more damage where their migration is interrupted. JF: So below the fence line there is where you have got the goats. NP: They’re hungry – they can’t traverse... JF: They’re hungry – they’re peeling the bark off the tree. NP: They can’t traverse so they’re gonna do more damage. That’s understandable. JF: So, that’s what we’re seeing there. The next big point is the detection on Kauai. Now I told you there are two diseases the one more virulent that’s caused 95%? Fortunately, the one on the Kauai is the less virulent, Ceratocystis huliohia. We don’t know how long that’s been here. Partly we went looking for this explosion from this pathogen and we found two pathogens. This other one we don’t know how long it’s been here – it may have been here for decades. It wasn’t picked up in those surveys of ohia death – if you remember the ohia decline that people were surveying in the 70s and 80s. They never picked it up – so I don’t think it was widespread then – it’s hard to see how they wouldn’t have found it with all the research – 29 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 this was detected on the North Shore in the Molaa Section of Kauai. Actually, it was a hunter that brought it to the attention of the biologists – someone was hunting up there – he heard about rapid ohia death – he saw these trees – he said, hey, you guys should take a look at this – and then later brought in some samples and they were tested positive. We all went out there and sampled that in May, early May, and found about 15 positive trees in that area. We don’t know how widespread it is. It’s a pretty rugged area. It’s steep, it’s Kauai so it’s slippery clay – it’s not nice rocks like we have on this island – to get around it’s uluhe and we don’t know how long it’s been there so what we’re doing on Kauai now is going helicopter surveys and drone surveys and gearing up the field sampling to see how widespread it is before taking any action there on Kauai. Protecting ohia – protecting forests – not moving wood around – the pathogen through review is in the sapwood. It grows in the sapwood of trees. Anytime you’re moving around wood you’re potentially moving around the pathogen. There is a quarantine on this Island – you’re not allowed to move any ohia things – anything off island unless it’s inspected and shown to be free. We’re currently working on two different methods of treating posts – a load went in on Friday in a kiln to see if kiln treating can sanitize posts. I’d really like to have a treatment method rather than inspection cause treatment is gonna be a lot surer. That’s one way I’m really afraid the pathogen’s gonna move off the island. And we haven’t had any reports and we’ve had hundreds of samples tested. None of them on Oahu, Maui, Molokai or Lanai have turned out to be positive for this. Don’t wound ohia trees. A lot of ways that we wound trees – the picture on the left is they were road clearing down by South Point cutting Christmas berry but the big rototiller also took the bark off a bunch of ohia – pruning practices, feral livestock, cattle, are particularly bad. The bigger the animal the more damage it’s gonna do. Cattle have done a lot of damage in Hilo Forest Watershed there. This is what I was getting to about cleaning shoes and gear – cleaning mud off things using detergent – cleaning off your gear – cleaning off your shoes – vehicles, especially underneath – I’ve had people that, you know, bring their vehicle back \[unclear\] and they say, oh, it’s clean. And I get on my knees and I look under it and it’s not clean underneath it – where you got to get clean is the wheel wells – the tires get the mud off – and we think that will really help on it. We really solicit your all’s input on suspect trees on this Island where we really want to know is more suspects. North Hilo, Hamakua or Kohala. In Puna, Kau and Kona we know. There’s thousands and hundreds of thousands of infected trees. It’s no news to get a new infected tree in Pahoa. If it’s in Laupahoehoe if it’s in Ahualoa, if it’s in Kohala, Hawi, Kapaau – we really want to know – we’ll come find it – the symptom that you’re gonna see going past is a tree that looks like this – completely brown. In fact this was someone emailed me this photo and I said, yeah, that looks like it take a sample and it was. If you see an infected tree, especially in 30 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 those districts on the northern part of this island where there are only a few cases so far – let Big Island Invasive Species or DOFAW know and they’ll set up – they’ll organize to get it tested. They’ll send a team out to test it, collect samples and bring it into the lab so we know on it and then avoid disturbing the area in it. So I want to close that most of our ohia forests on the Island are still healthy. This has been really bad – alarming – it’s not as bad as I was afraid it was gonna be three or four years ago when we saw it really taking off. Again, I think a lot of that was all the damage done by the hurricane and then subsequently got diseased. Some of these other area – here’s the Hilo Forest Reserve looking at Mauna Kea. Most of our forest is still healthy. We have a couple upcoming events. We’ve had a documentary on ohia and th on rapid ohia death filmed. The premier is next month in Hilo on the 4, thst Waimea on the 17, Kona on the 31. Documentary – there’s a – I did put a slide on it but if any of you listen to NPR there’s a show Science Friday – this Saturday they’re taping it from Kahilu Theater in Waimea – Dr. Lisa Keith will be talking about rapid ohia death on it so national coverage on that with that. And we’re having an Ohia Festival August 26 on it here at Imiloa – here in Hilo. I always like to thank our funders- we’ve been grateful for a lot funding – it’s gotten to be a pretty good program with a lot of people working on it and as I say it’s a big working group. When I say we have done this, I mean, this large group of people working on it. It’s not like I’m the mastermind of this stuff. There’s my contact information. So I think I’ve kept it to ten minutes. I’m happy to answer questions as long as you have questions to answer – I have the 70 slide show that I cut it down to about a dozen here but I’m happy to answer any questions and before I leave let me tell you, oh, that’s the one thing I was gonna say – we’ve an intern this summer interviewing people on key stakeholder groups on their awareness and actions for rapid ohia death. One is earth movers one is hunters. If any of you would like to talk with our intern and talk from a hunter’s perspective on the ohia forest or rapid ohia death – let me know and I can put you in contact with her. TL: We are just about out of time, actually, and, so, I do appreciate, it’s interesting to me what we’re doing and the forest is of interest to me and I think everybody here has that same interest. We’re grateful that you were able to come and share this with us. TN: With all the research work going on and investigation on rapid ohia death – has there been a solution as to how to combat what’s happening to the trees? JF: So our concentration now is how to stop it from spreading into healthy areas. It’s always better to keep something healthy than turn something around. In 31 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 terms of once a tree is infected these kind of diseases there’s not much that you can do about. Earlier this month we did set up our first fungicide treatment where we pumped a couple of trees full on fungicides – next month we’re gonna inoculate with them the disease. We want to see it pumping a tree full of fungicides can stop the spread of disease. This is a treatment they use for Dutch elm disease – this is somewhat similar to this – but it’s a protective treatment it’s not a cure for an infected tree – it’s what you would do for a tree that is a particularly prized tree that you want to protect is. So we’ve just now set up this trail for that. TN: So an infected tree cannot be treated is what you’re saying? JF: Correct. TN: And you’ve done experiments in trying to save it? JF: No. Like I say – what we’re starting now is can we – is a fungicide effective in preventing infection – that’s the easier thing to do. If it’s not even gonna prevent an infection – it’s not gonna reverse it but these vascular wilt pathogens, you know, Dutch Elm disease – any of these oak wilt – there’s no fungicide that will reverse the course of it – once the pathogen is in the wood you can’t really reverse the course of that. You may be able to prevent it from getting infected by putting some fungicide on it. TN: OK. And have you started a nursery to replant all the dying trees? JF: We actually have... A student who just graduated from U.H. Hilo this December – he tested resistance – so he tested four different of the varieties that grow on Hawaii Island and he inoculated them with the fungus – with the pathogen – and two of the varieties had some ones that didn’t die – and a year later they’re still healthy – even though we inoculated them with the pathogen. So we know there’s resistance out there – what we need to know now is how common it is so we’ve scaled up that and then I’m afraid that the volcano we got a real set-back because what we’re doing is going into the most infected areas and looking at the trees that aren’t dead and hoping that maybe they are resistant – trying to bring them into cultivation and test them. So a lot of our collection grounds – we’re no longer able to access but we’re moving forward with that for sure. TN: So there is somewhat of a plan in place to start a nursery too, so that we can replant and have our community involved in this when the replanting can be done. JF: So, I guess, there are two things here – what I was just describing is looking to see if we can find resistance selections – but one of the other things that we’re finding is that young trees don’t get infected as much as older trees – I 32 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 think that goes back to the injuries and wounds that once a tree is big – it’s gonna have a broken branch or it’s gonna have a crotch that’s gonna get it – so when we see trees that are below like 6” diameter – which on our ohia could be a forty year old tree by then – these get much lower rates of infection – so even in infected areas we encourage people to replant ohia because if, for me, if a tree’s gonna live forty years it’s gonna outlive me – and so it’s a good thing – so we have recommendations for people to plant and we do encourage people whose forests are infected to have a broader palette of trees you’re putting in – if you’re in Puna, for example, put in some ‘ohe mauka – put in some mamaki, put in some a’a, some other things, but, yes, keep replanting ohia. TN: So is the Department of Forestry involved in making sure that we do not lose our ohia tree and they’re sprouting more ohia trees that people can plant on their larger tract of lands? JF: Yeah, the eliminating factor on planting isn’t the number of seedlings, really, it’s managing the land, especially in these areas that are badly infected with it – you’re – the difficulty is in clearing land, keeping the weeds off than getting seedling. Seedlings are pretty well – forestry – and I have to say I’ve worked with the State Tree Nursery for twenty years – they’re doing a good job – they’ve really upped their game – they’ve got some beautiful ohias seedlings every time I go there – there are four main species that they’re producing right now are – all I know – ohia, koa, iliahi, and I forget what the fourth one that they’re planting – but they are producing quite a lot, plus there are any number of private nurseries that can produce ohia seedlings in quantity. So if you had a hundred acre piece and you needed 10,000 ohia – you could order them and you could get those. TN: And is the University doing their own nursery also? JF: The University’s nurseries are only experimental nurseries – we’re not producing plants for sale to the public – that’s Forestry & Wildlife that does that. TN: So in the near future do you think the University may think of doing such a project because it will take all of us to do this and not just of experimental plants at the University level but have the University really push through on making sure we have seedlings that we can replant in our forests, especially if they’re on State land. JF: To be honest with you – Forestry & Wildlife is set-up much better than we are to do that sort of thing. I really would defer to them at producing seedlings. They have a big nursery – they have the staff – they have acreage, they have the machinery to do that. We have small nurseries and we do it by hand just for experiments – so that’s really – they’re better at that 33 Hawaii Game Management Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes – July 2, 2018 than we are. Plus there’s, as I said, there are a number of private nurseries, also, that \[unclear\] and I’m happy to send people the list of private nurseries who do seedlings for reforestation. TN: Cause that would help big, large, tract owners that they can – that we can plant more ohia trees...so that will compensate for all the dying ohias... JF: Sure, and I’d also like to say there are a number of grant programs that help support reforestation. TN: And is this well known to the public? Are these grant programs available? JF: They could be better known – if you Google Hawaii Forestry Extension – you’ll get to my website and you look for cost share programs and I have on my website a page of a couple dozen different programs that help with reforestation. VIII. ANNOUNCEMENTS - Parks and Recreation has been assigned to the working group – Mayor Harry Kim TL: OK. Two things. One our next meeting – right now scheduled tentatively August 20. We had some pretty good news last month regarding the gun range and that is that Mayor Harry Kim assigned the Parks and Rec to take lead for the county in our gun range efforts and we had a meeting with them today and they seem to be very sincere about their wanting to get this gun range thing done. It’s not something that’s gonna happen overnight but it is something that we do now have the Mayor’s blessing on it so that’s particularly good news for those of us who are interested in this gun range. With that – I want to bid us adieu – so we’re closing at 8:40p. TL: Teresa Nakama moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:40 pm. Seconded by James O’Keefe. Motion carried unanimously by voice vote. IX. NEXT MEETING SCHEDULED: August 20, 2018 Respectfully submitted by: Donna Urban-Higuchi Secretary ATTEST: Thomas H. Lodge, Chairperson 34