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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-14-18 Regular Session MinutesHAWAII COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS MINUTES — REGULAR SESSION Tuesday, August 14, 2018 10:01 a.m. to 11:50 a.m. Hawaii County Building 25 Aupuni Street County Council Chambers Hilo, Hawai`i 96720 Members and Staff Present: Ku Kahakalau, Chair Kenneth Goodenow, Vice -Chair Rick Robinson, Member Nan Sumner -Mack, Member David Wiseman, Member J Yoshimoto, Deputy Corporation Counsel Emily Hirayama & Maria Pagala, Secretaries 1. CALL TO ORDER (10:01 a.m.) Ms. Kahakalau: Aloha Mai Kakou. I'd like to the meeting of Hawai`i County Board of Ethics to order...my name is Ku Kahakalau and I'm the Chair of this Hawai`i County Board of Ethics and I'd like our members to please introduce themselves. We will start on this side here. Mr. Wiseman: David Wiseman, new member as of June. Ms. Sumner -Mack: Nan Sumner -Mack. Mr. Goodenow: Ken Goodenow. Mr. Robinson: Rick Robinson. Ms. Kahakalau: Wonderful, thank you so much. 2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (10:02 a.m.) Ms. Kahakalau: We'll move to our first item of the agenda which are statements from the public on agenda items...and I don't see any requests there. Just double checking here with our staff Are there any statements from the public? No. Alrighty. Aloha though, good morning to the both of you who are here. So in that case, we are moving right on... 1 3. APPROVAL OF THE REGULAR SESSION MINUTES OF JUNE 12, 2018 (10:03 a.m.) Ms. Kahakalau: Have as agenda item number three...approval of the regular session minutes of June 12, 2018. Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Second. Ms. Kahakalau: So moved. Do we have any discussion in regards to those minutes? All right then I call for the question...all in favor of approving the minutes of June 12 say aye...any opposed...alright so that motion is carried. Our next agenda item is new business... Motion and Vote: Mr. Wiseman moved to approve the minutes. Mr. Goodenow seconded. All members voted ayes. 4. NEW BUSINESS (10:03 a.m.) a. Communication dated August 1, 2018 from Chair Douglas Shipman Adams. Seeking Input for the Hawaii County Charter Commission. Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Robinson: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Robinson: Starting with 4a....that specific communication was included in your packets and... I move to file. I guess that would be our task at hand is to file it so we have motion to file. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you... any discussions in regards to the Yeah for me...I appreciate Doug...he used to members here... asking us for our input there. to get a copy of the charter... County Charter. review it...email it to us...or if its... Ms. Sumner -Mack: Is it not in our book? Mr. Goodenow: letter? be one of our board ..is it possible for us ..so that we could It is in our book...with the rules...I don't know if Mr. Wiseman got one...I know... 2 Mr. Wiseman: I did. Mr. Goodenow: Oh great...it is here under Hawai`i County. Mr. Robinson: Yeah...the book I didn't bring today. Mr. Goodenow: Okay. Mr. Robinson: I'm not saying for use right now, but just so we could... Ms. Kahakalau: So he could look at it at home yeah Mr. Robinson: Cause see he asks us to put it on our agenda correct? Mr. Goodenow: Yes...include an agenda item. Mr. Robinson: Yes. Ms. Sumner -Mack: By September 26. Ms. Kahakalau: So at this point we have it just plain communication...but what I'm hearing then is for us to put the request as an agenda item on our next agenda...to discuss specifically...how the County Charter affects its role in operations within the County...and any proposals that we have to amend the charter... Mr. Robinson: Correct. Ms. Kahakalau: And...just...wanna thank him for...Goodenow for continue to work...right...on this part...I mean as far as amending some of the pieces... Mr. Goodenow: Oh as far as the rules...as far as the Charter? Well I guess we can all bring our mana'o but I'll be sure to do extra...close attention to that Madam Chair...thank you. Ms. Kahakalau: To the specifics yeah...so if we can put that as an agenda item for the next time to discuss specifically the roles and operations of the Charter and any proposals that we have to amend the Charter off our next meeting... great. Mr. Goodenow: Maybe corp. counsel could assist with that? Ms. Kahakalau: Yes maybe we can have corp. counsel assisting... 3 Mr. Goodenow: In regards to that second paragraph...input as to how the County Charter affects its roles and operations within the County...I don't know if you can assist us with that. Mr. Wiseman: I think you review the Charter first to see... Mr. Robinson: Yeah. Mr. Wiseman: The connection with the Board of Ethics. Mr. Yoshimoto: So the Charter provision should already be in your booklet that you have... but otherwise we'll also email it to you... so you can have a pdf copy so you can look at it electronically. In terms of how the Charter is now...I mean that's up to the board as far as...based upon your experience you know what changes if any you have to suggest forward...it can be any number of things right so...let me know how I can assist if you have a specific issue. Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Robinson: So I guess that our homework would be just to review it...all of us to review it and to come with specific suggestions on areas that we are unsure about or the thing needs more clarity or anything like that...and then we can work with you going from there. I would say just at a broad, brush from my perspective...it does seem that...the Charter is just pretty clear as to what it is...I don't see any major modification or anything as far as the Charter is concerned. Unless the board wants to put forth a suggestion. But I will take a look and think about for sure. And also you know I note Mr. Adams having been a prior board member of the Board of Ethics...and asked us for us to agendize this item. I think it would be very important for us to...be very good for us to invite him within that meeting because he might have some thoughts as well...on their behalf and I'd like to hear those. Mr. Goodenow: Oh absolutely. Ms. Kahakalau: Is that something we can do then officially send him a communications saying that it will be on the agenda and we would love for him to be there to share any of his mana'o. Mr. Yoshimoto: Yeah, we can. 4 Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Ms. Kahakalau: That would be wonderful...I think it's a best practice to right...one of the things about this is that it is a best practice to review just like we're reviewing our peace there...also to do a review every so often just to make sure that everything is current. Okay so did you want to have Maria send an email informally to Chair Adams or Ku would you like to draft a letter and send it that way. I think knowing our relationship I think it's okay to do an informal email and just letting him know we will agendize it for the next meeting and we would like for him to be there and share anything that he has and we will make a commitment to review it for that meeting. So we'll do that then...we'll take care of that. So we did have a motion to file the communications...is there any more discussion in regards to that? One more quick... for the review for next time as far as the Charter, just one thing to keep in mind is that the Charter is generally...the concept is to have provisions that are general in nature and broad in nature enough so that if there's any specific changes that need to happen...more nuts and bolts kind of stuff that should be done in the code or the ordinance because that way the council can make changes quickly whereas the Charter needs to be approved by the voters and it takes... You said that so much better than I did. Well anyway just from things to keep in mind right...because if we... I noticed that. Alright...is it okay then we vote on the motion that has been put on the floor and seconded...all in favor say aye...any opposed...so that motion is carried. Moving on to new business for b. Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved for a motion to file. Mr. Robinson seconded. All members voted aye. 5 b. Review of Gift Disclosure Statements received from the following County officer or employee. 1. Valerie Poindexter 2. Karen S. Eoff 3. Aaron S.Y. Chung 4. Diane Ley 5. Dru Kanuha 6. Daryn Arai 7. Susan L.K. Lee Loy 8. Herbert M. Richards, III 9. Eileen O'Hara 10. Maile David 11. Jennifer Ruggles 12. Harry Kim 13. Wil Okabe Mr. Yoshimoto: Madam Chair, those will be passed out right now. Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Just one question if I could before we start this review...do these people also submit...these people on this list...these 13 people, they also submit financial statements as well. Generally my understanding is well from looking at the list...yes. Yet we don't get those...just the gift disclosures. Well...the timing of their financial disclosure depends upon when they were required to do so via the code...whether when they were elected or appointed to a board or commission... so it depends on the timing. Because I know in the years that I have been here we see ones for employees of the County or people from Boards and Commission but I've never seen one for an elected official. Those are filed publicly with the clerk's office. Just as a courtesy...why wouldn't we get a copy of those as well to review as part our process? We could. Or is it considered that we just walk next door and ask from them. Well this came up before...remember? 6 Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Right. Mr. Goodenow was clerk, he can. From my standpoint as a board member in order for us to carry out the functions of we're supposed to do we should review them...I agree...as part of a process even though it's public and we they're open. You I'm assuming these gift disclosures are open in public as well and yet we're getting these for review that would seem... Cause that's required by the code the gift disclosure...so while it's not required in terms of the financial disclosures of the elected...officers...yeah we could...I don't...we should probably put those in the rules though...I would think. That's a good idea...I gotta make a note of that. Yeah and in a way the gift disclosures statements are kind of independent from the confidential financial disclosure forms. I don't know that any of that would be reflected in these forms. They're kind of two separate things but it's important that we do...have a look at the confidential financial disclosure forms as well...then that would give us a little bit of a better idea on how to deal with the gift disclosure statements. I guess we're gonna just look at those and then just pass them down and people can put their initials on the top. According to the code then if there are no gifts to disclose they still have to file a statement? No they are not required to file a statement but some of them do and that's okay too. Like in the case of Diane Ley here who's director of Department of Research and Development she submits a gift disclosure of $2,913 for reimbursement of travel expenses...occurred between 2016, 2017 as chair of the ag conference...I mean is there a limit? I'm reviewing this but I don't know is there a limit or is that a cause for concern or just what it is...but it looks like she's doing business on an ag conference it would be in support of the County so I don't know if...what it is. But there's a limit or an over dollar amount or something like that. There's no limit or dollar amount in our code...Mr. Wiseman did you have a follow-up to that? 7 Mr. Wiseman: Yeah...two concerns...isn't it a minimum amount...I mean like over $50... Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Right... so the code talks about an excess of a $100...report requirements as well as two other factors...so to answer Member Robinson's question...the fact that it's over a $100 worth it's $2900...there isn't anything in the code that...that amount in and of itself rises to any level official concern...cause other factors you would need to consider...I think you know in the past Board Member Robinson we talked about the board reviewed other types of gifts where we looked at other factors as far as whether was related to the job...whether it was in furtherance of a County interest...things of that nature...there's a test right to say that this Commission uses. I have one other concern...I think it's just a waste of resource and time to have someone submit if they didn't receive a gift...to say I didn't get any gifts. I mean it's an affirmative action if you receive a gift to report it. So I see a waste of paper...waste of time...we all had to look at this to see that someone did not receive a gift...somehow I'd like to see a some action taken...I don't if it would require a rule or just a memo perhaps to employees...and offices of the government that they don't have to submit anything if they didn't it's an affirmative action just to clarify that... May I respond to that? Please I just think for...to make sure the record is clear that we have a record that they've have stated that they received no gift I think it's a little bit of a safeguard. I think. What's the time table on it... is it a periodic event? Once a year by June 30`h Once a year, then I don't have such a problem. You can just disregard my concern...I thought it was more frequent than that...but once a year is fine with me. Right it says if the requirements are met and so they don't have to in the code. It's not a requirement so you could send them...and put on the paperwork when you send...but your right we should put in the rule if we're gonna do that. You know the code is pretty specific but it's a little wordy in terms of the requirements to file a gift disclosure...in other words if you didn't...it doesn't say in simple term language if you didn't have a 8 Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Wiseman: gift you don't have to file anything...and I suppose that could help it would be redundant but it could help cause that's more simplistic. I agree... if they sign it and at least you have it... why not... so we'll just leave that as it is then I guess...thank you...for that. And I think what's happening is they want to be proactive because we did have some issues in the past with gift disclosures or lack thereof...especially those who were involved either directly or peripherally you know are kind of covering themselves now by putting it in and saying there's nothing...So I can see where there thinking is coming from...but I think spelling it out always helps... being transparent. You know I would like to just ask another question for my own edification in regards to disposition of gifts that are given to officials...like in the case of the one I'm looking at here for the Mayor that will eventually will get down there...it says snake skin Okinawan instrument, $500 in value...they don't really give it to Harry Kim personally...they give to in essence, Harry Kim because he's the Mayor, he's the representative of the County...so does that snake skin Okinawan instrument remain with the County or does the Mayor take it home and becomes a part of his personal assets and the same with all the other you know tea cup sets, handmade silk shirt made in Okinawa, $700...I mean you know if you start looking at that where does it go? Yeah, I'm not able to answer that question...I think the Mayor would...because I'm not sure the context of the gift...whether it was given to him personally or you know the office of the Mayor. My expectation is it would be the Office of the Mayor when they have...when they exchange gifts through sister city type visits...things of that nature...but yeah...I mean but my expectation is that...yeah...I don't know I can't answer that...I can't speak for the Mayor, no. So really we don't have any say so or understanding of what the disposition of the gift was... it was just a gift that was given and it could stay in the Mayor's office or it could be taken home and it could be any number of things that happen to it...you know like in the case of senbei I'm assuming he would share that with all of his office staff. Seems to me there should be a well settled principles on that issue...cause you have it around the United States, you know so 9 Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: it's forms of government for municipalities up to governorship up to the White House you know. I'm sure there's principles and policies in there. Right...so my expectation would be is that the gift would be to the County of Hawai`i and he's the current sitting Mayor so he's just making a record of it so that there's public knowledge because it's a public office. So I don't see any concerns unless members have them because. I would say that you know when you... if the gift requirement reporting it's not clear to me whether if I were in my official capacity or not I receive something so I think you know on the side of caution their probably just putting it in but reality...I don't know if any of you have been in the basement here under the building...there's a lot of stuff down there...you'd be very surprised...but I...we could inquire with the office of the Mayor but I...you know when you read the code section it's like I would put it in...even if it was in to the office of the Mayor...right...that's probably what's being done. So we're saying probably the disposition is go on into the basement...it remains in the ownership of the County...maybe...we don't really know. What I'm saying is...probably when you read the code it doesn't specify if I received it as an official... it doesn't specify anything that could influence you in your role...like oh they gave us that Okinawan instrument...I love that thing...even if there was an assemblance of that...they put it down right? My thing is not reporting it...it's maybe there should be another column there that says disposition...so you got value, the item that was given, who it was given by, the value of the item...disposition there's not anything that tells you what the disposition is...I mean would they have given the snake skin instrument to Harry if he hadn't got reelected...the answer is no. Then again I think some research could discover some well settled principles... state, local. I assume there's maybe a somewhere else in the code something about that perhaps about your official capacity or I don't...I don't know that but would we have the authority to request that and to ask for that information because the more the better...right I kind 10 Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Robinson: of agree with Mr. Robinson on that ground...I'm just wanna make sure we have the authority to do that to ask that. Normally, Mr. Goodenow you can confirm this if you remember this as well...if it's a gift to the County...doesn't the council have to acknowledge the gift...right...there's a code provision that allows for that so actually there a note provision that you just mentioned...right? That's...but I'm not sure of the details...I don't remember exactly, it was a long time ago... The point I'm getting to is that when you look at the gift disclosures here, the context is that the person received the gift right? So in actuality if it's a gift made to the County then wouldn't the council have to receive the gift whether it's a donation of property, item, right? There's another co- provision...and I can resource that. Right...is there a dollar amount...up to so much that they actually have to receive it. No...so then that goes back to answering you know Rick's question about because if it's just made to the person who in this case that seems to be the more logical, a plausible approach. I think we'd be inventing the wheel again cause I think this is well settled somewhere. There's a great, great caption one time and it shows a law library with just hundreds and hundreds of books and papers on a huge table...and there's three lawyers there and the caption is...the answer is here somewhere. But I think we should call it...if we do this...we should call it the archive ...not the basement. Oh...thank you. If I could right from our Code of Ethics...in the County Charter says all public property and equipment are to be treated as public trust and are not to be used in a propriety manner for personal purposes without proper consent... so it goes to a something is donated to the Mayor or the Mayor's office or they say here...Mayor this is yours but it's not really yours...it's the County's...is it being used for personal purposes without proper consent or...I mean what happens so I just think disposition is important and it's just me and I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. 11 Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: I think we should definitely investigate this. I think if our corp. counsel could do a comparison with the other provisions in the code as to that and...right...should they even be writing it down on these forms if...if it is an official gift...right? In all fairness the form doesn't really designate or differentiate...the questions that we're asking...right...so what Rick is asking for is pretty straight forward...right if we want a separate column for disposition... I mean that's fair...right but we didn't ask that question...so we can follow-up on that...because the questions are relevant. If it said in the basement of the County building...hey that's fine with me...but if it says take it home and use. I've been corrected quite rightly you mean the County archives. The safest place in the building...thank you. So the question is...how would we do that...are we gonna ask for further clarification. Oh no...in my opinion...those gift statements are satisfactory because they fulfilled all the requirements in the code but the board is asking for... is for the clarification on the procedures and processes so we can follow-up on that and if we can figure out a way to best do that or not reinvent the wheel that's already there. So there's two options but the recommendation would be to file these gift statements because they've complied with their code requirements. But on the board's end since you're asking these questions which are relevant that we can follow-up by figuring out which would be the best way to...to get that information. But I don't think we can ask for anything further at this point because the code doesn't require that unless... With all deference...and I think you're on the right track with this whole thing. I think these have met the requirements of the code right and it's all it is a disclosure and I think we should let these go...but look towards the future. And in this case because of the June 30th deadline we'll have technically a year you know to kind of... if we're gonna make any changes to do it ahead of time so that they know...there's no requirements that we may have and then as we prepare for next year's filing then...then we'll have more information. And it is tricky like when you do get a gift right what do you do with it I 12 Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: mean some stuff...the goodies I'm sure they're consumed right...you assume that whatever...one of the disclosures you know whatever they put as goodies...but some of other items you know shirt...same thing...if you wear it...that's pretty much your shirt after that right...I don't think we wanna put it back into the archives. So I think just to be clear on those things makes a lot of sense to me as well. So in Hawai`i County Code Section 2-161...it's article 30, gifts or donations, dedications so there's specific provisions in terms of gifts and donations accepted on behalf of the County. And there's procedure for acceptance so it is specified here but rather than go into that detail today I can address that at our next meeting. I think we're good. That sounds good. 2-161. I'll email that to you...to all the board members to so you have that available next time. Thank you. Our board members had a chance to review the gift disclosure statements. Do we need a motion to file them at this point and time? Yes...alright. Motion to file. Second. Any discussion beyond what we've already asked our corp. counsel to do? Alright then I'll ask for the question. All in favor say aye...any opposed? Alright so that motion is carried. Motion and Vote: Mr. Robinson moved the motion to file. Mr. Goodenow seconded the motion. All members voted aye. 5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (10:34 a.m.) 10:34 a.m. a. Petition No. 2018-04: Review draft informal advisory opinion for a County officer or employee to determine whether there is a violation of Section 2-83(b) (1) (Fair Treatment) and Section 2-85 (Contracts) of the Hawaii County Code. 13 Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: We have our Informal Advisory Opinion here. Do I hear a motion? I'll move to approve. Ms. Sumner -Mack: I'll second that. Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Kahakalau: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Robinson: Thank you. Well...go ahead. Just a quick reminder so I don't believe all members were present for this hearing so...you know the usual protocol is that only the members who are present or those members who reviewed the minutes and entire record and can attest that they're able to vote on the matter...should vote on the matter...but if you're not able to do so then I would ask you know that you refrain from voting or ask to be excused. Alright. Any other discussion regards to this item? I just wanna commend J for including "it appears" in writing...it was very important to me. Thank you. I just found it interesting in this hearing that were able to find out that the County has 14 special contracts that are out there...that are awarded by the Mayor and I don't know if that means those 14 people should be submitting financial disclosures or you know what...I mean it's just I get the impression that special contracts could be issued at the discretion of the Mayor with no...there's no review or secondary concern until this Ms. Novak brought it to our attention. So I don't know what that means...it's just that...that was an eye opener for me...that we have those special contracts out there. Sole sourcing contracts right? Sole sourcing, correct. And executives have that discretion something to challenge. But if there's no challenge...I mean I don't think it's the ethics commission...the Board of Ethics' position to go looking into those. It's just...there's no secondary review or any disclosure that goes to the County Council or anyone...it's just at the discretion of the Mayor...I found that interesting...I wasn't aware of that. 14 Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Sumner —Mack: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Goodenow: Didn't we sort of recommend that this be looked into more? We gather more information...I mean there were follow-up questions since July Ist has passed for example. But I'd like to ask of somebody. But maybe I have to get a copy of the budget to see what's in there. A lot of governments operate on a general presumption of validity to its actions. That they're proper, that they're legal, that they're ethical and so on. And if they're not, then it pokes its head up by way of a challenge and then it becomes an issue. But if you go down a road with this and look at it...it means that every single action taken by an executive, and in this case, the Mayor... for sole sourcing...I mean something has to be done this week with respect to some emergency in the volcano or something...you're gonna go submit that to bid...you're gonna go to that whole multi month, multi-year process...you're gonna let it go to procurement...I meant that's why sole source...there's numerous checks and balances in sole sources from my experience. So their presumption of validity and faith in the system it has to have some... some position. I thought it was ultimately Public Works that had signed this contract. That's my recollection, it was through Public Works and IT and those two departments and finance because it involves money right? But apparently, according to the contract, it was the finance division that had to approve continuance beyond the fiscal year. Correct. Because... And that was based on...that was to be based on budget...not on performance evaluation... Correct because it's contingent upon financing being available. So how would we find out? I've had a point of order or procedure, question on this. Those are all very valid questions and you know if we reviewed the minutes...we could...hopefully address that. But I'm just worried I don't have the agenda in front of me but the language on the agenda is the informal advisory opinion, review of the opinion and I'm afraid we're going beyond the...that in this discussion but that 15 Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Robinson: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: could be a point for further discussion but...you know if there ever is an incident where let's say a wrong number was...or exemption was purposefully used to get around something...that could always come before this board as being violative of the ethics code. But I again here I bring up the Sunshine Law...but in a general sense right I do think we...what's before us is something a violation of the code or not...that really is ours and corp. counsel testified they did a review... anyway ....sorry. My comments were with respect to general situation and not this specific. And my comments were not intended to be in...saying that sole sourcing is not good...it was just to say sole sourcing obviously the government needs to have the ability to sole source...but there should be some kind of disclosure at some point along the way that these sole source contracts are being issued. You could put that on an agenda. An agenda item. Would you like us to put that on an agenda item? I think...I mean if it's definitely something to look into right. We could have the departments come and give their input. When it gets to the award of the contract and notice of the... and usually that is some public announcement or public notice...could look into that and see if it's sufficient or not. Yeah but we should not discuss it much further. So I'm not gonna be able to vote on this because I was not present the last time and now especially...I thought I could...but after hearing this discussion I want to make...I can't say that I'm a hundred percent clear on how this whole item you know was handled and the specific testimony in regards to it. But we still have a quorum even if I don't. I also abstained...I abstained at the last meeting with respect to this issue. But we will still have a...have enough to vote on this Informal Advisory Opinion. And if there are no further discussion said I gonna call for the question. All in favor say aye. So there's three ayes and 2 abstentions. Alright. Thank you. 16 Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to approve the Informal Advisory Opinion. Ms. Sumner -Mack seconded the motion. 3 members voted aye and 2 abstained. Ms. Kahakalau: Our next agenda item is the executive session...we are also going to review the executive minutes and 22 financial disclosure forms. So we would like to go into executive session now. Mr. Robinson: You need a motion? Mr. Goodenow: So moved...for those reasons. Mr. Robinson: Second. Ms. Kahakalau: All in favor say aye...alright...thank you. Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to go into executive session. Mr. Robinson seconded the motion. All members voted aye. 10:42 a.m. The Board moved into executive session. 11:15 a.m. The Board returned from executive session. 6. VOTING ON EXECUTIVE SESSION MATTERS (11:15 a.m.) 11:15 a.m. a. Review of the executive session minutes of June 12, 2018. Ms. Kahakalau: We're going back to regular session. Mr. Robinson: Madam Chair motion to approve the minutes of the executive session of June 12, 2018. Mr. Goodenow: Second. Ms. Kahakalau: Any other discussion in regards to executive session minutes and approval? All in favor say aye...any opposed...motion is carried Motion and Vote: Mr. Robinson moved for a motion to approve minutes of the executive session. Mr. Goodenow seconded. All members voted aye. 11:16 a.m. b. Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to Section 2-91.1(d), Hawaii County Code, by County board and commission members and designated County employees, where personal matters will be reviewed. 17 Ms. Kahakalau: And then we also reviewed 22 confidential financial disclosure forms. Two of which number 3 and number 14 were returned for re -review and the rest were approved. Mr. Yoshimoto: I'm sorry, was there another one too, right? Okay, I'm sorry you said number 2? Ms. Kahakalau: Number 3 and number 14 were returned for re -review and all the other 20 were accepted. Do we need any other formality in regards to those...no. Mr. Yoshimoto: There's a motion to file for the rest. Mr. Goodenow: Alright, I'll move that. Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah, that is what I was waiting for. Mr. Robinson: Second. Ms. Kahakalau: So we have a motion to file... and a second okay...all in favor say aye...any opposed...so we have those 20 confidential financial disclosure forms filed. Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to file all the items except for No. 3 and No. 14. Mr. Robinson seconded. All members voted aye. 7. DISCUSSION REGARDING AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF PRACTICE AND PROCEDURE OF THE BOARD OF ETHICS OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII. (11:17 a.m.) 11:17 a.m. a. Correspondence dated May 7, 2018 from Vice -Chair Goodenow. Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: We have to two correspondences. One is dated May 7th and one is dated August 7th Both from Vice -Chair Goodenow. Maybe would you like to speak to those please? So...you know just a little recap as to where we were. One of the main objectives that we're charged with is to incorporate the ability to levy fines...which needed a rule amendment and so we're just going through the entire process...rule by rule. The first packet here May 7t"...these two rules don't really relate to anything that would cause fines...so we don't really...we don't have to worry about that aspect. The rule 2 and 3 in thins first packet. Rule 2 refers to the petitions for adoption amendment or repeal of rules and we can just go through this one by one or if 18 anyone has comments my feeling is we could keep our own language...I mean it's very similar. But there may be a few things people like better as far as... Mr. Wiseman: I have a few problems. Mr. Goodenow: Good. Mr. Wiseman: There's on 2.3...the processing of petition. Mr. Goodenow: Okay. Mr. Wiseman: And this is on page 2. I have a...it says the board shall notify the petitioner of the date, time and place where the board shall consider the petition, the petitioner's privilege of personal privilege with or without counsel. Why do we have to suggest counsel? This is a non -adversarial position. Mr. Goodenow: Yeah...you'd just wanna amend the rules right? Mr. Wiseman: Yeah. Mr. Goodenow: I'd...that's a good comment...I'd be a...I don't know if anyone else wants to express opinion. Again what we are doing is...we're getting input and then I'm gonna go through all the minutes and put all our changes and... Mr. Wiseman: My concern is the...moment like number 1 might have a chilling effect to the one right person who put something in and oh I need an attorney. And second it sort of creates an adversarial position when you have an attorney present you know. That's just my concern. Ms. Sumner -Mack: Can I respond. I think if you...if it's permitted that it should be indicated that it's permitted. Because some people will be too shy to...might be too shy to present without the backup of an attorney. So I don't see any reason to change it. That's my point of view. Mr. Goodenow: You know one thing you could do is put in the...rule 1...I'm sorry we don't have that before us...but I provision that a person always has the right to counsel in all proceedings before the board of ethics. Mr. Wiseman: I like that. 19 Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Sumner -Mack: And then we could take it out here... it's not do like... We don't really make motions but we got a consensus. I like that to put it right up front you that it is your privilege, your prerogative to have counsel present if you choose to. And then not having it in the rest of the document. I like that. I like that. Okay any other comments on any other. Yeah on 2.5 consideration and disposition of petition. The 30 day time limit bothers me. A 30 day time limit on anything as we know it how time flies...I mean it goes by in a blink. I'd rather...throughout this I see how the language were within a reasonable time thereafter and perhaps limit that and no later...but no later than 60 or 90 or something like that. But 30 is a...I think is time element that you would have to try to...it would come too fast for everything to be done. And when we look at the Kaua'i example, they have 90 days. Yeah. And then there's other languages that says within a reasonable time and then you could have it no more than X days. You know it's kind of odd that this is just for the amending the rules right...it's different from the other...it's separate. But I agree with you. This takes a written denial within 30 days. Yeah. It means we discussed it, we looked at it, we talked about it. What if we've not met or... I don't know. It seems to me that...as Ken says it's amending and so. It shouldn't take an inordinate amount of time. If you change it to just reasonable amount of time that everybody's opinion about reasonable could be different. Mr. Wiseman: Well you could still put a time there a reasonable time...period of time not to exceed 90 days. 20 Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: J, I'm wondering if you've had any experience with this. I mean the way I read it usually is they have the board hearing, they hear it and then they decide okay we're gonna do it or not and then...30 days from that they have to either put it in writing or but how or what's practically happened in the past? Any experience with this? The reasonable time period is that's the usual standard so...what I would suggest is you can put a time period...to give you know the public and the board some expectation of what period you're looking at but also allowing for continuances or stipulations to continue cause as the board has seen in the past. You know some things can take a long time to resolve right so there has to be an option. And it might be oh we're gonna deny it then cause we... Right...If you're pressed for it right. Well...why don't we...I would say...I'd say we should just put in a reasonable time but I'm open to a cap if that's the will of the board... that's my opinion. Well I like the within...the reasonable time but then also the 90 days because then at least we have and I think you know it shouldn't take that long but if something happens that's the maximum. Yeah not to exceed 90 days. Not to exceed 90 days okay. I can incorporate that. That's a good one. 3.2 carrying on to page 6...number 6. This involves a form and content of petition. Oh right. That or rule 2? I'm sorry...3.2. Alright the Honolulu language does not include the terms "if any" when asking for name, address and telephone number. Includes "if any"...I would take out the option..."if any". Mr. Goodenow: I would support that. Mr. Wiseman: You know it's hard to find someone without a phone number, if they don't have a phone they're not gonna tell us anyway so. But 21 Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Ms. Kahakalau: this gives an option "if any". And "if any" applies to the name, address as well the way...the way it's written. Yeah. Yeah they gotta give their name. Yeah. Yeah. I would take that out. Thank you. Okay. We all in agreement on that? I'd leave everything in there just strike out "if any". "If any" on 3.2 (1). Contact number? You know one thing I was hoping to do is...sorry for the digression here but I foresee us finishing this today and then next time we do the really meaty ones 5, 6, and 7 and then we have one more for the quite easy 8 and 9. So we could do that fairly soon and then the final review would be just for style, language, and 1 was hoping that maybe two people cause they could talk to each other...could volunteer to...kind of take the lead on that and present it with us and you know...come with what font we use, what indents and then the last step would be...that would be reviewed by corp. counsel then we'd have a final vote if there's not any further amendments. So I'm hoping someone would do that the style and we could leave questions like that for that review if they feel...you know consistency...it's telephone here...but it's contact here. I'd be willing to volunteer in that. That would be great. I'd be happy to help but I mean I don't think the telephone number issue is just a stylistic. I think many people now don't have other ways of being communicated with. And I think contact information or a contact...is important to have an option. An email also right. So let's change that to contact information for now because then that way address and other contact information maybe. 22 Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: And other contact information...thank you. Just take out "if any". I was hoping you would...that was the whole point of me saying that. Perfectly staged thank you. Alright the next concern I have is 3.2. This is more in stylistic change on the following page number 6. A memorandum of authorities...this is too legalistic for me. The average layperson would not understand what that means. I think we said it all in when it starts with number 5...the statement of the position or contention of the petitioner...and perhaps leave out the...combine 5 and 6 and leave out that "memorandum of authorities". I like that... so a statement of the position or contention of the petitioner including a full discussion of the reasons including...well I don't know if you want to include legal. If you can use the containing you can leave that there. Containing a full discussion. So just delete "a memorandum of authorities". Yeah. Yeah. And what about "including any legal authorities"? I would take that out and just including any support of such position or contention. Legal or other support? Or just take "legal" out? Yeah. Could that be optional? Well any support would include...it would imply... Full discussion of the reasons, including any support... 23 Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Yoshimoto: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Support thereof...but I gotta take the thereof out. Including any support... Of such positions. Of such positions. All right I guess. I mean the counter argument would be then do they... do they have notice that they should bring forward legal argument. But I kind of agree with you...all we're talking about is the declaratory ruling so...you know it's in their benefit if they want to but in reality. They don't have to. Corp. counsel any thought on doing that? In terms of the memorandum of authorities... Taking out legal authorities and support. We actually combine number 5 with number 6 and take out some of the references to legal stuff. That's a matter of preference. And I agree that if you gonna submit something you're gonna submit all the basis for what you're trying to ask...so that should include legal but you know...may not right too so. I don't know it's up to you guys. Would it be helpful to just put in optional...on that. So it doesn't intimidate somebody who thinks well I've gotta...I've gotta have something you know. And just leave it up to the petitioner. Yeah. If you're creating a statement of the position then to have a discussion about it and you know...and stating what is in favor of this...your position. I think to me that should suffice and you don't want to make it more complicated...then it already is. And I agree with you know people that are not used to legal language right...for them to be able to read it and understand it and move on it. What is a memorandum of authorities? The thing to consider is the context of the question that they're asking so you would expect legal authorities...I mean you really would right cause this is under declaratory rulings right? Yes. So I think that legal term is there for a reason...I mean you know you don't want to...no....oh yeah. 24 Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Sumner -Mack: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Like cause this is a petition for a declaratory order is to the applicability of any statue, ordinance, rule, or order of the Board. So that's what I'm thinking you would... But it could be something really basic like an order of the board like...wow I have this thing and I you know...I don't know. So maybe I'll put it best this way. To me that legal reference there is there for a reason...that makes sense to be there...but by taking it out... it doesn't preclude the board from considering legal authorities cause that's what you would probably ask anyway in your process. I haven't had...we haven't had that come up before that doesn't mean it won't. But so taking it out I don't think harms anything because as the board you would probably ask what is your legal authority for... is asking for. It's up to you guys. Let's just take it out, I'm fine. I mean we've lost Mr. Robinson. Okay I guess we have consensus. Take out 6 entirely? No were gonna... it' ll go... it' ll go a... number 5 will read a statement of the position or contention of the petitioner containing a full description of the reasons, including support for such position. But we leave it to the language committee if they want to...this is just to get it out there for a review. So we're combining 5 and 6. Yeah. Sound alright? So we're changing the number? Yes and then 6 would be...I mean 7 would become 6. 6, yeah. Alright. I still have a couple more. Great. Yeah go ahead. 25 Mr. Wiseman: 3.3 rejection. I actually like the Maui...the Maui statement is more detailed than the one we have. Yeah. And it does have a typo, which is the word "typo"...number 3. That could be me maybe I don't know. It should be type. You don't get many typos with the word typo. Where is that? I need to look for it...right here number 3...oh is not the typo that would give. That must be a typo okay. This is refusing the petition of a declaratory order. Well we only have rejection of the petition. Either way it's a play on words but I like the fact...go into the in Maui... Specifics. Me too. Yeah. Anyone have a problem with that or J you're all good. So be more specific there. We'll take Maui. Yeah. Then the next one is 3.4. Then again I like Maui's statement. Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Okay. Yeah and then that way we don't have to worry about the "with or without counsel" we just adopt the Maui one. You know I...to be honest looking. Our form of how we do things is similar to Maui to begin with and it looks they've improved their language. I'm looking more and more at Maui as being kind of how we're going...but okay. That's all I have. 26 Mr. Goodenow: Anything else on this first rules 2 and 3 that anyone wants to...? Alright next moving on to the next one...4 informal advisory opinions. 11:35 a.m. b. Correspondence dated August 7, 2018 from Vice -Chair Goodenow. Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Now I did pass out this sheet just earlier comparing Hawai`i County and Maui County. Maui County the big difference that the other counties do is that they separate out complaints from advisory...you know opinions about like can I do this right...and it's much clearer...I thought. But otherwise you can see it's very similar there's a few little differences. For example 1 the legal chair and legal counsel right make a recommendation if they wanna just reject it. They have a decision and then that's reviewed but it's not like it's a hearing where people come and then you know it's just kind of reviewing the decision. Another...a difference that I think maybe we do is good is that and I wanted the staff's input on this. When we get a petition right...the board and chair their first...they kind of decide. They send out the notice right to the respondent already. They don't wait. You send that out right away so the respondent knows hey there's a meeting on this day and I'm gonna come and. Is that correct? Cause Maui what they do is they make a recommendation how to process it and then the whole board looks at it and then they decide okay we want to have these witnesses or we're gonna send the copy of the complaint to the respondent and redact it or don't redact it. They do all that as a board. Good thing is the board does that...the bad thing is does slow it down one meeting. You have meeting just for that. I think our practice you do a lot before a meeting right. What do you do? Well actually we haven't been doing that. I...when I first came on board I thought that was going to happen but it hasn't been happening I think it's our legal counsel and staff because nobody talks to me prior to the agenda being issued or anything sent out which I thought was going to happen to be honest because I thought that was the procedure but then when it didn't happen... and it was working you know we didn't have any problems with it... so my understanding was that we had legal counsel and staff look at the petitions and if there's a question then I guess you would contact me but so far we haven't had that being the case and so that the agenda is generated and I don't really have any input at this point. Or I haven't had the input...that I know of. 27 Mr. Wiseman: My concern in general when reading through rule 4...in your excellent analysis and comparison. Mr. Goodenow: Just putting it out there. Mr. Wiseman: I think it's really good. Is advisory opinions which is what this seems to really intend to deal with but then it's intertwined with procedure for complaints. And I don't know if a distinction is necessary or not. Someone asked for an advisory opinion, can that person take that $500 he found on the ground outside the Mayor's office without doing anything. I mean that's an advisory opinion. Mr. Goodenow: Right. Mr. Wiseman: But a complaint is sort of different and I find it intertwined with investigations going on and people...their concerns so. Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: I couldn't agree more. I almost think we should just adopt the Maui provisions in total really...just have it separate...I mean it's nice now we have one form...the petition form that you use for everything. But maybe we should separate out... it just to me would be easier to follow from a layperson reading Rule 4 it's so convoluted. Like that advisory opinion for example the little story I told you before about my prize that I won. That's what I was seeking. No complaint involved, no investigation nothing. It was an advisory opinion can I keep these tickets or not you know. Things like that it doesn't involve a whole investigation. And with the change in the law we had a bunch of those right we had a bunch of employees that came with specifically and ask you know...as far as pending processes in all those kind of thing. So that's something that we do pretty regularly is you know dealing with those kind of advisory opinions. And like in Kaua'i, like Honolulu or Maui, it says advisory opinions may be requested by officers or employees to assist them in the proper performance of their official duties and responsibilities in consistent with the Code of Ethics. And that's when advisory opinion should head. Complaints a whole different road I think. You know if it just a reason to that it gets confusing is because no one is gonna demand a contested case hearing on an informal advisory opinion right? I could see a complaint...yeah gonna fine 28 Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: me...we won't give fines in an informal advisory opinion. So when it's all meshed together like it is now, it's not clear well okay you...can I demand a formal hearing now...it's not...I think we should bifurcate it. A complaint is really an allegation that someone's did something in violation of the code. Request for an advisory opinion is I want make sure I don't get into some type of violation. That's how I see it. They both have different parameters and procedures should be slightly different. I'm not prepared to recommend anything this time but I do like the Maui...Maui versions. Any other comments? I mean my inclination is that what I can do is put in the Maui versions and we go from there and then when it gets reviewed again that's what we'll have and you can say hey I don't like it. The other thing I could do is I could...if there's something that are in the Hawai`i version that's similar but maybe different language...I could put footnotes or something and put that in so you could see what we had that we don't have now. Something like that. Mr. Wiseman: I'd be in favor of that. Mr. Goodenow: Alright. Ms. Sumner -Mack: Seems like a lot of work to me. Mr. Goodenow: I know that's why...but you know what we really only have the next one but it's gonna be hard. Mr. Wiseman: Look at the work he's done already in this. Ms. Sumner -Mack: I know. Ms. Kahakalau: Kala mai. Do you folks have any suggestions? As far as you know... is there any way we can improve it or should we you know change it. Is it working cause I think that's an important part too right as far as from the between staff and the board. Anything that you folks would recommend? As far as the... Mr. Wiseman: Is that counsel you've had experience I'd guess would be advisory opinions. Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah. 29 Mr. Goodenow: I'm sorry it looks like the top margin got kind of lopped off. May have made it harder to understand. Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Wiseman: I like the approach that Mr. Goodenow's taking in terms of going with Maui approach. Reviewing that see how that integrates with everything else cause we're not going...a...yeah...I think that's good. Good. Ms. Sumner -Mack: (inaudible)... shift, either add or replace material with Maui material cause it was more detailed. Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow: Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Wiseman: Mr. Robinson: Ms. Kahakalau: And I think Mr. Goodenow much to his credit does all this without a law clerk. Well I do have a secretary. It's not the same. Not to put the blame on the typo for her by the way. Okay. I think we're pretty much done with that then. Any other suggestions on rule number 4 then, we're good? Yeah... okay... great. The only thing is the next one is a big one and I didn't bring anything to pass out for that. So you'll get it with your packets... you' ll have to cram a bit. Sorry for that. But at the same time this is...you know we've been getting our packages in a very timely manner and I really wanna thank the staff for that because that doesn't always happen on board since so thank you. You know it does give us enough time to review it at...ahead of time so mahalo for that. Of course I was hoping this...this package I got in the mail was something else...something from Amazon. Ah yes Amazon, the bringer of all good things. Okay so that's that then conclude our agenda item number 7 at this point. Thank you. And especially to Vice -Chair Goodenow for 30 your work. We really appreciate it and also to our two volunteers we are looking forward to that input already as well. Thank you. 8. DISCUSSION REGARDING CHANGES TO THE BOARD OF ETHICS MONTHLY MEETING SCHEDULE. (11:46 a.m.) Ms. Kahakalau: Number 8 is the discussion regarding changes to the Board of Ethics monthly meeting schedule. Just looking at number 9 as far as the announcement for the following...well there is no date there...so I was just wanted to double check if that's on purpose or if we just haven't scheduled one yet. 9. ANNOUNCEMENTS (11:46 a.m.) Ms. Hirayama: We haven't scheduled one at the last meeting but I have September 11, 2018, it's a Tuesday. Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you. Mr. Wiseman: 9-11. Ms. Kahakalau: September 11. Okay that works for me. Mr. Robinson: I won't be at the next meeting. Ms. Sumner -Mack: So shall we write that in? Mr. Robinson: No, I won't be able to attend. Ms. Sumner -Mack: Oh you can't make it? Ms. Kahakalau: If everybody else can make it then we will still have a... Mr. Robinson: I'm not saying change, I'll be gone to October yeah. Ms. Kahakalau: You sure? Mr. Goodenow: Alright. Mr. Wiseman: I'll be gone first half of October. Mr. Goodenow: Me too. Mr. Wiseman: For two weeks. Mr. Goodenow: But I'm okay on the 11tH 31 Ms. Kahakalau: Okay. Mr. Wiseman: It's good for me. Ms. Kahakalau: And then do we want to look at October already as well? Mr. Yoshimoto: Yeah we may as well. Ms. Kahakalau: Did you have a suggest date in? Ms. Hirayama: It can either be October 8, which is a Monday or October 9, which is a Tuesday. Mr. Goodenow: I'll be gone. Mr. Wiseman: So will I. Ms. Kahakalau: So will I. Sorry. Mr. Robinson: I'll be just coming back. Mr. Yoshimoto: So you wanna do it the previous week or the week after or we can look at it though Emily...we have to... Ms. Hirayama: Yeah. Ms. Kahakalau: I'm sorry I'm going to be in India for the first three weeks of October so. Mr. Wiseman: I'll be gone the first few weeks also. Mr. Goodenow: I'll only be gone the first two weeks but oh well. Mr. Yoshimoto: So okay that takes us to the third week. You wanna just email everybody, Emily? Ms. Hirayama: Yeah...I can check if either...well council is using this room on the 16, 17 which is a Tuesday, Wednesday but I can check and see if that Monday the 15th or Thursday the 18th is free. Mr. Robinson: Will you guys be back? Mr. Wiseman: No. Ms. Kahakalau: No. I'm coming back on the 18tH 32 Mr. Wiseman: I'm not back till the 23rd Mr. Yoshimoto: Maybe the next month then? Mr. Goodenow: September 30? Mr. Wiseman: Or the end of October? Mr. Goodenow: We can have it Halloween. Mr. Yoshimoto: We'll have Emily follow up with everyone via email and we'll figure out something. Mr. Goodenow: Okay. Ms. Kahakalau: So I'll be there the last two weeks in October. Mr. Yoshimoto: The last two weeks in October. Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah I'm coming back on the 18th in the afternoon. Mr. Wiseman: I'll be there the last week. Ms. Sumner -Mack: I'm not going anywhere. Where are you going? Mr. Robinson: I'm going to Italy and going to Budapest... Ms. Kahakalau: Oh cool. Yeah. Ok so we got the September one. We have the date there and we are going to look into the October one. And hope to find a time in October so we can continue to work on our rules and move forward there. Mr. Yoshimoto: Madam Chair, so since we're all here could we check November...November 13 to make sure just in case October doesn't work out and then we'll at least have... Mr. Robinson: November 13? Mr. Yoshimoto: Yeah. Ms. Sumner -Mack: It's good with me. Mr. Wiseman: Yeah, good for me. Mr. Goodenow: I have court at 1:30 but. 33 Ms. Kahakalau: On November 13? Mr. Goodenow: On that day the 13th Mr. Robinson: It never stopped you before kid. Ms. Kahakalau: Alright. I'm good for the 13tH Mr. Goodenow: That'll work. Ms. Kahakalau: How's everybody else for November 13? Mr. Wiseman: Good. Mr. Goodenow: Okay. Ms. Kahakalau: Okay. Mr. Yoshimoto: Mr. Goodenow, now you're gonna do the motion to suspend the rules so we can have meeting dates on a non -Wednesday. Mr. Goodenow: Yes I would like it this time to suspend the rules so that we may hold our meetings on a date that is not designated in our rules. Ms. Kahakalau: Do I have a second? Mr. Wiseman: Second. Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay so with that said we gonna have our next monthly meeting scheduled for September 11 at 10 o'clock and October and November to be determined. Any other announcements? No. Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to suspend the rules and change the regular scheduled meeting date to September 11. Mr. Wiseman seconded. All members voted aye. 10. ADJOURNMENT (11:50 a.m.) Ms. Kahakalau: I would like to close this meeting at 11:50. Mr. Wiseman: Move to adjourn. Mr. Robinson: Second. Ms. Kahakalau: All in favor aye. 34 Motion and Vote: Mr. Wiseman moved to adjourn. Mr. Robinson seconded. All members voted aye. Respectfully submitted: Maria Pagala, Secretary 35